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www.ismaili.net :: View topic - Recycling of souls.
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Recycling of souls.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19781

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
[quote="salimkhoja786]
A simple question, Do you believe MSMS consumed wine? Yes or No.
O course yes! Why do you think I posted material from Rumi and Greenwall?[/quote]It is of course yes! I cannot edit my post.
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salimkhoja786



Joined: 06 Mar 2016
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
salimkhoja786 wrote:
This has been debated quite few times on this forum. Let me ask you this
question. What is the meaning of KITABULLA, means Kitab of Allah and ie is Quran like Mazhar of Allah. My question; IS KITAB BE CONSIDERED ON ITS OWN AS ALLAH.?
Yes it has been debated a few times in the Forum in the past and I also explained that there is no difference. But you seem to suggest otherwise, so I am asking what is the difference?

What has Kitaballah got to do with this? According to Paris Conference, the Imam is the Mazhar and NOT the book! If the book was the Mazhar, then there would be no need of Imamat!



As usual you are manipulating my question by writing, 'Imam is the Mazhar and not the book". You know English well may be I am not, but when the word OF is used it differentiates between two. Let me take in this way. Kitab of Kmaherali, means kitab belongs to Kmaherali as a property or in custody or as an owner. Kitab it self is not Kmaherali. Same way kitab of Allah means kitab is property of Allah ( given to mankind) and kitab itself is not Allah. Same way is Mazhar of Allah. Mazhar himself is not Allah. If you define Mazhar as ESSENCE, then that Essence is in every particle. The difference between Imam and ordinary person is AUTHORITY; God given authority.
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salimkhoja786



Joined: 06 Mar 2016
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
[quote="salimkhoja786]
A simple question, Do you believe MSMS consumed wine? Yes or No.
O course yes! Why do you think I posted material from Rumi and Greenwall?[/quote]


Rumi in his mathnavi has mentioned two positive and favorable anecdotes about Amir Mu'awiya. Do ismailis accept these positive stories?
Being an Ismaili I do not believe Imam should or could consume alcohol neither
majority of followers of Imam. You have opened the Pandora's box.
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ismaili103



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
They were killed because of irresponsible statements by persons like you.
In British court Imam declared," neither he nor his grand father claimed divinity".


And who were those irresponsible Ismailis, Momnas, khojas, chitralis, badakshani etc, because those extremists were living in chitral and they killed Ismailis of Chitral.

Ok...Imam declared it in front non Ismailis, I don't care because the same Imam declared that he is Allah many times in his farmans in front of his Murids.

You said he is your Imam, ok you are right because he is Imam e Zaman, someone says he is his leader ok he is also right, another will says he is my freind ,yes he is also right, I am saying He is my Allah and I know I am right.
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salimkhoja786



Joined: 06 Mar 2016
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ismaili103 wrote:
Quote:
They were killed because of irresponsible statements by persons like you.
In British court Imam declared," neither he nor his grand father claimed divinity".


And who were those irresponsible Ismailis, Momnas, khojas, chitralis, badakshani etc, because those extremists were living in chitral and they killed Ismailis of Chitral.

Ok...Imam declared it in front non Ismailis, I don't care because the same Imam declared that he is Allah many times in his farmans in front of his Murids.

You said he is your Imam, ok you are right because he is Imam e Zaman, someone says he is his leader ok he is also right, another will says he is my freind ,yes he is also right, I am saying He is my Allah and I know I am right.



Did Hazar Imam Shah Karim ever declared, He is ( na'uzu billah ) Allah???
If you think that is your Iman and don't impose that on other followers of Imam. We live in era of Shah Karim Al Hussaini. You already accepted that hardly 1% of total khoja/momina Ismailis of subcontinent believe Ali as Allah!
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salimkhoja786



Joined: 06 Mar 2016
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
salimkhoja786 wrote:
Brave heart go out in streets of Karimabad, Rahimabad or Azizabad or in rallies of mullahs and announce loudly that ' I believe Imam is as Allah', just imagine what they will do to you. No one has to shoot you. APNEY SATH APNI QOUM KO BHI LEY DHUBOGEY. THE IRRESPONSIBLE STATEMENTS LIKE THIS HAS SURELY REPERCUSSIONS.
Nobody is talking about shouting in the streets. It is about discussing this matter in a batini forum like this one. MHI has made did quite clear that there are two aspects to the interpretation of faith - the zahiri and the batini:

"Remember also that with regard to the interpretation of our faith, that which is Batin is Batin, that which is Zahir is Zahir. Remember that this is fundamental."(Damascus Syria, May 8, 1980)

So we should discuss batini matters in batini context.



Obviously like minded will take side or support like minded, it is natural. That person mentioned 2nd time in his postings that he had confrontation with mullahs. I wander did he said to them clearly and loudly that he believed Imam is Allah. I don't think so he dared! He should have been in jail on BLASPHEMOUS CHARGES or something else. If he indeed did then it is a miracle he is still posting on Heritage. Batin things should be kept Batin in one's Batin and not propagated openly. If some one does then there are repercussions in country like Pakistan. Ground realities in Pak are totally different in comparison to USA and Canada. If a person sitting in Canada and post such kind of Batin statement it surely affect the lives of Ismailis in Pakistan. THAT IS MAIN CONCERN. I have been trying to put this in minds of BATINI people to stay BATINI in their BATINS.
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agakhani



Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 271

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
Not long ago! I, posted at least dozen of Farmans of our 46,47 & 48th imams in those farmans all three imams respectively declared H. Ali (s.a.) as Allah I mean Ali is Allah you can still find those farmans in my previous posts but... I still remember that Mazhar and Mr. tret (both are from central Asia) didn't accepted those farmans as a proof: only proof these two dudes accepting is a "Paris Conference" so, don't waste your time in answering their posts ( I stopped to answer them long time ago) they are getting money to spreading this kind weird questions to brain wash Ismaili young generation, but they have miserably failed in their aims, they still can not do any harm to the readers of Ismaili.net. that is Imam's blessing.period
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ismaili103



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Did Hazar Imam Shah Karim ever declared, He is ( na'uzu billah ) Allah???
If you think that is your Iman and don't impose that on other followers of Imam. We live in era of Shah Karim Al Hussaini. You already accepted that hardly 1% of total khoja/momina Ismailis of subcontinent believe Ali as Allah!


I can clearly see Ithnashari thinking in you, as you said did shah karim said? It means according to you every Imam has different Noor just like Ithnashari who believe that Ali died, Hussain died , Zainul Abideen died etc.

Now you mean you don't have any importance for farman of previous Imam in which Imam declared himself Allah, truth will always remain truth, and truth is Imam is Allah.

And no one is imposing it on anyone, we are just saying truth, and yes hardly 1% believe Ali is Allah all thanks to corruption made by leaders.
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ismaili103



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't think so he dared! He should have been in jail on BLASPHEMOUS CHARGES or something else.


There are millions of Ahmedis in Pakistan who are declared non muslims by the state, but no one is arresting them to follow Islam, atleast Ismailis still didn't declared non Muslim by Pakistan so I can say whatever I want to say to anyone.
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali Madad.
It was poor choice of ismaili103 to link Imam with an unwarranted act and also a senior posting hear say of non Ismaili observer and writer.It has annoyed me as disrespecting an Entity.
By the Way almost more than 60% Khoja 90% momnas are haqiqati.
A person who cannot understand first word of Kalim LAA to Tawhid Aliuallah.It means evolution of Life and process of spirituality from NOTHINGNESS TO ONENESS.It has taken few thousand life cycles of mine just to deeply understand our Kalima now.
How can a non Ismaili understand the depth of what MHI says My Spiritual Children.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5939

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nuseri wrote:

By the Way almost more than 60% Khoja 90% momnas are haqiqati..


Do you have statistics or a Farman to back what you are saying or is it again one of your own invention?

When Hazar Imam has said Faith can not be measured, who exactely are you to start putting numbers on people's faith. What about you are you 17.56% Imani and 23.41% educated?
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Admin Ya ALI madad.
At Marifat it also comes down to figures and numbers.see the numbers mentioned in Quran,ginan,Persian doctrine.See the farmans of Imam SMS giving out numbers and ratio.
At baatin level one can scan a soul by its expression of writing.Analyzing number is much more easy.
Most of khojas and momans have faith developed from Ginans and Farman.
Why I call many blinkered to those at haqaqit imaan as even they are sigh of baatin and absolute truth finding.
One new friend of yours in neither tariqati at low level nor intelligent as a human.This forum is wasting time and space toca fallen soul and discard.
I face 10 time more genius in persons from all community and have to reply on the spot to their queries and testing.
One question was asked.he told If I was so smart then tell me how does water comes into coconut.?.No escape and googling time is given.
I am trying to decode in binary computer language of 0101001.
That is 0 is nothingness and 1= ALI.
May someday we will see.more logic of 1+0=1.

I wish to know what number 110 signifies in Islam.?
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tret



Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 1197

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allah means differently to a polytheist vs monotheist.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19781

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

salimkhoja786 wrote:
As usual you are manipulating my question by writing, 'Imam is the Mazhar and not the book". You know English well may be I am not, but when the word OF is used it differentiates between two. Let me take in this way. Kitab of Kmaherali, means kitab belongs to Kmaherali as a property or in custody or as an owner. Kitab it self is not Kmaherali. Same way kitab of Allah means kitab is property of Allah ( given to mankind) and kitab itself is not Allah. Same way is Mazhar of Allah. Mazhar himself is not Allah. If you define Mazhar as ESSENCE, then that Essence is in every particle. The difference between Imam and ordinary person is AUTHORITY; God given authority.
Not necessarily true for all situations. Consider this:

The word X is a synonym of word Y. This has the same meaning as: word X is word Y!

Another example which has a direct bearing on the concept of Mazhar which I explained before.

If we say that a person has qualities of a teacher and if we say that a person is a teacher, it means the same.

Similarly if we say that the Imam is the Mazhar (the batin made zahir) of God, it is the same as saying Imam is God - NO DIFFERENCE.

The ESSENCE is not in every particle. What is in every particle is some part of the Essence; whereas the Imam is the Mazhar of the WHOLE Essence.

Just as Imam is the Aql-e Qul (Complete Intellect) and others are Aql-e juzz (Partial Intellect)

MSMS says in his Memoirs:

"Islamic doctrine goes further than the other great religions, for it proclaims the presence of the soul, perhaps minute but nevertheless existing in an embryonic state, in all existence in matter, in animals, trees, and space itself. Every individual, every molecule, every atom has its own spiritual relationship with the All-Powerful Soul of God. But men and women, being more highly developed, are immensely more advanced than the infinite number of other beings known to us."

From the above statement it is quite clear that there are levels of soul. The soul in an atom is not the same as the soul in man.

The difference between the Imam and an ordinary man is that the Imam is the Mazhar of Complete Essence whereas the ordinary man is the Mazhar of Partial Essence. It is not just that the Imam is chosen as a person bearing authority, it is because he has the qualifications of God and Divine Intellect.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19781

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

salimkhoja786 wrote:

Rumi in his mathnavi has mentioned two positive and favorable anecdotes about Amir Mu'awiya. Do ismailis accept these positive stories?.
MSMS made a final reconciliation between Sunni and Shias:

"That a spiritual succession to the Imamat makes the Imam the 'Ulu'1-amr Menkom always according to the Koran and though he has his moral claim to the Khalifat as well, always he can, like Hazrat Aly himself owing to the conditions of the world accept and support such worldly authorities as the Imam believes help the cause of Islam. Thus a final reconciliation without upsetting either Sunni or Shiah doctrine has been proclaimed always by me as the faith of all the Ismailis."

Based on the above we accept the 4 rightly guided caliphs. We know that Umayyads contributed significantly to the spread of Islam in Spain. There are some art works from Spain in our AKM. So we accept those positive stories about other caliphs who helped the cause of Islam
salimkhoja786 wrote:

Being an Ismaili I do not believe Imam should or could consume alcohol neither majority of followers of Imam. You have opened the Pandora's box.
YouU have the wrong understanding of Imamat and you are not willing to accept the truth based on references provided. Below is the quote from Tusi's 'Paradise of Submission" which is an IIS publication.

$376] Anyone who reasons to himself that the Imam - may salutations
ensue upon mention of him - should act according to the prescriptions
of the founder of the religious law in order to be Imam, and in order
to be impeccable (ma'sum), that he should adhere to the canons of
ascetic piety and holy chastity which ordinary people consider to be
piety and chastity, [such a person] can be numbered among those who
are described, when discussions about human intelligence are broached,
as [possessing] 'such denial, such devilry, which resembles reason,
but is not reason. Such a person does not have even an iota of
understanding regarding the condition of the Imamate.

[$377] When such people witness the behaviour and actions of the Imam -
may salutations ensue upon mention of him - they become delirious,
thinking these to be terrible transgressions, uttering things 'whereby
the heavens are almost torn asunder'(19: 90). For the Imam - may
salutations ensue upon mention of him - exercise his judgement in a
manner that is beyond the comprehension of mankind. Therefore, only
that person of whom it can be said that, 'The believer has been
created from [the light of]God, and when God orders him something, he
will recognise it, will be able to disclose this mystery by the light
of his primordial conscience (nur-i-fitrat). Such a person knows,
beyond any shadow of doubt or suspicion, that it is the truth which
follows the Imam, not the Imam who has to follow the truth. This is
because the Imam is the lord of truth(Khudavind-i haqq). and his will
and desire have no need to be justified or motivated by any secondary
cause, because from his perspective, the cause, the caused and the
causation are all the same.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19781

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

salimkhoja786 wrote:
Batin things should be kept Batin in one's Batin and not propagated openly. If some one does then there are repercussions in country like Pakistan. Ground realities in Pak are totally different in comparison to USA and Canada. If a person sitting in Canada and post such kind of Batin statement it surely affect the lives of Ismailis in Pakistan. THAT IS MAIN CONCERN. I have been trying to put this in minds of BATINI people to stay BATINI in their BATINS.
I agree with you that batin things should remain in the batin. It is wrong to confront a Mulla and tell him that Imam is Allah. However it is perfectly OK to say these things in a batin context such as this forum as I explained before based on the number of visitors here and the difficulty of finding information for an outsider.
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tret



Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 1197

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:

However it is perfectly OK to say these things in a batin context such as this forum


You seem very naive in your understanding of the technology and what is a private or public space on the internet.
just for the fun of it, do a google search for "recycling of the soul" and the first hit you get is this forum. i.e. this [https://www.google.ca/#q=ismaili.net+%2B+Recycling+of+souls.]. So you are very very wrong right there.

Second, members who register on this site, how can the moderator validate if he/she is actually an ismaili? Hell, there's already an active non-ismaili member. So, for you to assume this is a batini context, you are so very much wrong! So stop saying such non-sense that this space is private, because it is NOT! And I am very surprised that the moderator is just silent in this matter, while very responsive in suppressing selectively the content that he simply disagrees with.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19781

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tret wrote:
You seem very naive in your understanding of the technology and what is a private or public space on the internet.
just for the fun of it, do a google search for "recycling of the soul" and the first hit you get is this forum. i.e. this [https://www.google.ca/#q=ismaili.net+%2B+Recycling+of+souls.]. So you are very very wrong right there..


So what? Recycling of the Souls is a zaheri concept. Nothing batin about it!
tret wrote:

Second, members who register on this site, how can the moderator validate if he/she is actually an ismaili? Hell, there's already an active non-ismaili member. So, for you to assume this is a batini context, you are so very much wrong! So stop saying such non-sense that this space is private, because it is NOT! And I am very surprised that the moderator is just silent in this matter, while very responsive in suppressing selectively the content that he simply disagrees with.

For all intent and purposes it is private. These days non-Ismailis can enter JK's as well. There is no absolutely batin space anymore. If one wants to find information, he will find it even if it is discussed underground!
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salimkhoja786



Joined: 06 Mar 2016
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ismaili103 wrote:
Quote:
I don't think so he dared! He should have been in jail on BLASPHEMOUS CHARGES or something else.


There are millions of Ahmedis in Pakistan who are declared non muslims by the state, but no one is arresting them to follow Islam, atleast Ismailis still didn't declared non Muslim by Pakistan so I can say whatever I want to say to anyone.



Hai,Hai, mar na jau(n) iss saadgi per. There aren't millions Qadiyanis in Pakistan, there are only 1.2 millions on surface of earth. Qadiyanis are prohibited to say Rasullulah or Prophet Muhammad or even keep name Muhammad of new born babies by public in Pak and according to newspaper reports many were beaten. Qadiyanis don't use these kind of words in public.
For your information ( you were not born at that time ) the issue of Ismailis was raised in parliament in 70's to declare Imailis beside Qadiyanis as non Muslims also. But we were saved by establishment and government.
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ismaili103



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And who appointed these corrupt leaders?


Imam appoint those leaders and Imam will appoint those learders who will make corruption.

Just like Imam give birth to Ravan, Kans, Haranakans, Yazeed, Abu Jhel, Muawaiya, they all were stand against Imam and Prophet, what do you think Imam didn't know to whom he is giving birth, Imam is All knowing he know everything, its all his setup.

Imam is Allah , when he appoint leaders he know who they are and what they are going to do, but Imam still appoint them and Imam will do in future. Because we as a jamat are got corrupted thats why we are getting such leaders in jamat. As its written in Quran, Jaisi Quom hogi, Waise hy hukumraan hoge.
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ismaili103



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hai,Hai, mar na jau(n) iss saadgi per. There aren't millions Qadiyanis in Pakistan, there are only 1.2 millions on surface of earth. Qadiyanis are prohibited to say Rasullulah or Prophet Muhammad or even keep name Muhammad of new born babies by public in Pak and according to newspaper reports many were beaten. Qadiyanis don't use these kind of words in public.
For your information ( you were not born at that time ) the issue of Ismailis was raised in parliament in 70's to declare Imailis beside Qadiyanis as non Muslims also. But we were saved by establishment and government.


Its 2016 and what I know is that in 2016 Ismailis are muslims under the state of Pakistan. And in near future no one will declare Ismailis non muslims because of billion dollar investment by Imam, and yes Ismaili billionaires in Pakistan.
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tret



Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 1197

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:

So what? Recycling of the Souls is a zaheri concept. Nothing batin about it!


So what? So, it means you are wrong! The point isn't whether 'recycling of soul' is a zaniri matter or batini, but whether it can be accessed by anyone. this proves you were wrong in assuming this is a private space.



kmaherali wrote:

For all intent and purposes it is private.

I just showed you it is NOT! What's it you don't understand?


kmaherali wrote:

These days non-Ismailis can enter JK's as well.

Why do you say that? Have you witnessed such thing? Who says non-ismailis are allowed to?
Again, this is another non-sense!



kmaherali wrote:

There is no absolutely batin space anymore. If one wants to find information, he will find it even if it is discussed underground!

Then why you keep saying this is a batini context? Do you even listen to yourself? You are contradicting yourself. On the one hand you keep shouting 'this is a private space' and on the other hand you contradict yourself by saying 'there's no batin space'. Which one is kamherali? make up your mind!
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5939

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

salimkhoja786 wrote:

Qadiyanis are prohibited to say Rasullulah or Prophet Muhammad or even keep name Muhammad of new born babies by public in Pak.


This just shows intollerance of Pakistan and backward thinking. In Islam there is no compulsion in Religion. It is sad that Pakistan who pretends to be a "Muslim" state is not following the teaching of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) and it is even more sad that some in this forum try to justify the sureme sin of judging other people's faith.

Today when one ask a visa for Pakistan, he has to declare if he is Ahmadi or not. This is the lack of value of the Pakistan society at large which reflects in the Government. Instead of bringing unity, they are creating Fitna amongst the believer of Allah and his Messenger.

I don't agree with Ahmadi who say that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is not the final Messenger, but this does not mean I will persecute or insult them.

People who think that everyone has to be of their own opinions are nothing but fools. People who think they are always right and others are always wrong are even bigger fools.
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salimkhoja786



Joined: 06 Mar 2016
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ismaili103 wrote:
Quote:
Hai,Hai, mar na jau(n) iss saadgi per. There aren't millions Qadiyanis in Pakistan, there are only 1.2 millions on surface of earth. Qadiyanis are prohibited to say Rasullulah or Prophet Muhammad or even keep name Muhammad of new born babies by public in Pak and according to newspaper reports many were beaten. Qadiyanis don't use these kind of words in public.
For your information ( you were not born at that time ) the issue of Ismailis was raised in parliament in 70's to declare Imailis beside Qadiyanis as non Muslims also. But we were saved by establishment and government.


Its 2016 and what I know is that in 2016 Ismailis are muslims under the state of Pakistan. And in near future no one will declare Ismailis non muslims because of billion dollar investment by Imam, and yes Ismaili billionaires in Pakistan.



Did that billion dollars investment saved the lives of those 46 INNOCENT MOMINA ISMAILIS massacred near Safura goth. Can you name some of Pakistani Ismailis having net worth of billions of dollars!!
Also one more question; in one of your previous posts, you mentioned some one from central Asia claimed as Imam recently, can you provide name of that person?
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salimkhoja786



Joined: 06 Mar 2016
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admin wrote:
salimkhoja786 wrote:

Qadiyanis are prohibited to say Rasullulah or Prophet Muhammad or even keep name Muhammad of new born babies by public in Pak.


This just shows intollerance of Pakistan and backward thinking. In Islam there is no compulsion in Religion. It is sad that Pakistan who pretends to be a "Muslim" state is not following the teaching of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) and it is even more sad that some in this forum try to justify the sureme sin of judging other people's faith.

Today when one ask a visa for Pakistan, he has to declare if he is Ahmadi or not. This is the lack of value of the Pakistan society at large which reflects in the Government. Instead of bringing unity, they are creating Fitna amongst the believer of Allah and his Messenger.

I don't agree with Ahmadi who say that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is not the final Messenger, but this does not mean I will persecute or insult them.

People who think that everyone has to be of their own opinions are nothing but fools. People who think they are always right and others are always wrong are even bigger fools.



By sitting in Canada you can not realize what the ground realities are in Pakistan which I have tried to expalin in my post to Kmaherali on 17 Mar,2016, 9.55am. page#30. Please read that first. I have noticed you are selective in reading my posts. Govt there is trying hard but extremist are out of control and in that environment there is special guidance of Hazar Imam how to protect Ismails but some foul mouth and Ismaili extremist on our side do not understand it and you keep alive their posts. These posts are not doing any good in Pakistan, there can be retaliation from extremists and again some Ismailis will be killed. This is what I am trying to explain. Many Heritage posts in past and NOW are down loaded in Pak and are used against Ismailis. My concern is Ismailis. Just tell me why Golden Jubilee celebrations were cancelled in Pak? Even military refused to give protection.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5939

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

salimkhoja786 wrote:
Govt there is trying hard but extremist are out of control


You have no idea of what you are talking. We Ismailis do not live in fear. And we have survived history because our Imam is not week like your and he doesn't hide like your Imam.

Secondly Your Government is the only one who ask question on Ahmadis on visa form, not the extremists. But if extremists were in power, they too would also ask the same question on your visa form. No need to learn rocket science to draw conclusions. Therefore if you have nothing of value to say, do not post uneducated thinking.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19781

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tret wrote:
So what? So, it means you are wrong! The point isn't whether 'recycling of soul' is a zaniri matter or batini, but whether it can be accessed by anyone. this proves you were wrong in assuming this is a private space.
I never said that it cannot be accessed by the public. I only said that only an infinitesimal minority accesses it and hence it has become 'batinized'. Also as I said before any kind of information is difficult to access. Unless one is really determined to find, for vast majority this information is not readily available.
tret wrote:

kmaherali wrote:

For all intent and purposes it is private.

I just showed you it is NOT! What's it you don't understand?
As explained above.
tret wrote:

kmaherali wrote:

These days non-Ismailis can enter JK's as well.

Why do you say that? Have you witnessed such thing? Who says non-ismailis are allowed to?
Again, this is another non-sense! !
If a non-Ismaili disguises himself as being a member of another country and enters a JK, is there anyway one can find out?Recently in the US there have been concerns that the JKs in the US can be targets for terrorist. Why would there be such a concern if non-Ismailis could not enter JKs.
tret wrote:

kmaherali wrote:

There is no absolutely batin space anymore. If one wants to find information, he will find it even if it is discussed underground!

Then why you keep saying this is a batini context? Do you even listen to yourself? You are contradicting yourself. On the one hand you keep shouting 'this is a private space' and on the other hand you contradict yourself by saying 'there's no batin space'. Which one is kamherali? make up your mind!
The notion of batin is relative. I said batin in absolute sense is non-existent unless one lives in the heavens!We should be able to create relative batini contexts to discuss batini matters, otherwise we may lose the batini dimension due to lack of discussion and understanding.

Just to remind you rudeness does not get you very far in your argument. As HA has said reason is polite.
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ismaili103



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Did that billion dollars investment saved the lives of those 46 INNOCENT MOMINA ISMAILIS massacred near Safura goth. Can you name some of Pakistani Ismailis having net worth of billions of dollars!!
Also one more question; in one of your previous posts, you mentioned some one from central Asia claimed as Imam recently, can you provide name of that person?


First tell me , did 10 X billion dollar investment by mainstream muslim saves the lives of 48000 mainstream muslims who killed by terrorists in Pakistan since last decade. They are not even Ismailis and niether believes in Imam. These terrorist are just heartless animals who can kill anyone for there i terest even there mother and father.

Not many Ismaili Billionaires in Pakistan but some are,

Saddruddin Hashwani 1.1 b
Sultan Ali Lakhani 1 b

I didn't remember the name of that guy, but he claim to be Imam in 2006 or 7 in garder area karachi.
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ismaili103



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Just tell me why Golden Jubilee celebrations were cancelled in Pak?


Who tell you that there were no celebration of golden jubliee in Pakistan, we had month of celebration here including dinner for jamat, different REC programs for jamat, refreshments, dandia raas, Marching, and Ismaili orchestra and band are performing almost every day in societies , on 11 th july we came home from JK at 2 a.m because of celebrations. So get your facts right.
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salimkhoja786



Joined: 06 Mar 2016
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ismaili103 wrote:
Quote:
Did that billion dollars investment saved the lives of those 46 INNOCENT MOMINA ISMAILIS massacred near Safura goth. Can you name some of Pakistani Ismailis having net worth of billions of dollars!!
Also one more question; in one of your previous posts, you mentioned some one from central Asia claimed as Imam recently, can you provide name of that person?


First tell me , did 10 X billion dollar investment by mainstream muslim saves the lives of 48000 mainstream muslims who killed by terrorists in Pakistan since last decade. They are not even Ismailis and niether believes in Imam. These terrorist are just heartless animals who can kill anyone for there i terest even there mother and father.

Not many Ismaili Billionaires in Pakistan but some are,

Saddruddin Hashwani 1.1 b
Sultan Ali Lakhani 1 b

I didn't remember the name of that guy, but he claim to be Imam in 2006 or 7 in garder area karachi.



Question of Billions of dollars investment came up from your side. Also you claimed there are many Ismaili billionaries but you came up only with 2 names. Out of 2 one is no more Ismail. Sultan Lakhani switched to Sunni Hanafi Tariqa almost 20 years back. His family is split in 2 sections, one stays as Ismaili and other family members have become Sunni. Now left with only one name, that is Mr. Hashwani. Almost 10 years back he left for Dubai because of fear of Taliban. His 2 five star hotels were destroyed and mostly money he got from Insurance companies.
Regarding your claim that some one claimed Imam, you are failed to give name. If you have no proof it is called allegation or blame without proof.
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