Doctrines of Rumi

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:01 am

mazharshah wrote:PIDAR NOOR WA PISAR NOOR AST MASHHUR
AZZ EEN FAHUM KUN NOORUN ALA NOOR (RUMI)

Translation; It is well known father is noor and son is noor, understand this
( keep in mind ) this is noor upon noor.

I was told that in 1975 conference the will statement of MSMS ' whether they be sons or remote male issue..' came under discussion. In late 70's missionaries were told not to quote the above couplet of Rumi. Once I wrote an article for ITREB and quoted the above couplet. I was called in office by a top official and he asked me to delete that couplet. I argued and was told no more and that article never published.

Thanks for the translation.

Perhaps the reason for this verse to be objected would be that in the past some sons of the Imams rebelled against the legitimate authority.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:27 am

Ya Ali Madad:
Rumi was a great Sufi of 7th level intellect, nothing more.

....

Admin has failed very badly.becoming abettor of cursed.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:59 am

nuseri wrote:Ya Ali Madad:
Rumi was a great Sufi of 7th level intellect, nothing more.

Below are quotes from MSMS's Farmans and MHI's speech about Rumi.

If you will read the books of Mowlana Rumi and of Shah Shams Tabriz, then you would come to know about which path is good!
Mowlana Rumi first thought about himself: “Earlier, I was a stone; later on, I was created a tree; and from that, I have evolved into a human being (insan). From a human being, what shall I become hence?” He used to think about it. You, too, must think about what will you become from a human being!(Farman No.45, Jangbaar, 13.09.1899)

Mowlana Rumi has said that: “I was a stone; from there, I was created a tree; from that, I was transformed and created an ant; after that, I reached the stage of an animal. I ceased to be an animal to reach the status of a monkey. From that, I became a human being (insan). From human being (insan), what shall I become? I shall become an angel (malayak). From there, where shall I go? I shall rise higher still.”

Those who do not have the knowledge forsake the Haqiqat, but those who are Haqiqati, follow the other path. Just as (1) Hazrat Essa, (2) Pir Sadardin, (3) Nasir Khushraw, (4) Pir Shams, (5) Mowlana Rumi, and the like, followed the path of Haqiqat. This path is very difficult for the foolish persons.(Farman No.160, Dar-es-Salam, 29-09-1899)

As the poet Rumi has written: “The light that lights the eye is also the light of the heart… but the light that lights the heart is the Light of God.”(MHI Speech by Mawlana Hazar Imam At the Foundation Ceremony of
The Ismaili Centre, Toronto, The Aga Khan Museum and their Park Friday, 28 May 2010)

From the above, do you think Rumi was a person of the 7th intellect only?

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:01 am

To kmaherali: Ya Ali Madad.
If you can re post the extract of the farman no 160 with 4 lines before that and 4 lines after that.
I need specific reply and not subjective status reply, before I post my status on Rumi.
1) why his Mhi called him as poet and not moulana,auliya,pirs or dai.?
2) I assume that the status of Shams Tabriz was revered n no less than a Pirs.
Why did not the poet Rumi Gave his Bayt thru Shams to the Imam of the Time?
I am ready for the debate.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:32 am

nuseri wrote:To kmaherali: Ya Ali Madad.
I am ready for the debate.

I have responded at:
Jelaluddin Rumi
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 2473#52473

Please go there for further debate.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:39 am

Ya ALI madad.
Saw that.
You are posting only what other want to read.
Which one is part of farman no 160.?
Rumi was arrogant with his status he disregarded the bayat.your answer stand no ground.
What legacy did rumi leave.
Bunch of swirling dervish,assuming to swirl around one unites with God.
grade lower than Shariatis ,low end donkies.
His work is pure n has essence,So does the work of Guru Nanak.
Imam said they took the other path.
What is that path?
In what language this original Farmans made?
Who is the translator ?.
In other farman.imam SMS has named entities to jamat to become like them.
Who are those?
I assume their crusade may have had impact.
Here the word Haqaqti is used.
What word were used in that Farman ?
Rumi work may have a place in the library for time n dimag ka dahi
What we need to follow what material avbl in JK.
Has MHI stated any farman to act on rumi's work,etc.
Do not mix n farmans to confuse readers.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:04 am

To kmaherali: Ya Ali Madad.
I have asked 4 simple questions in above post. Other can join in to reply on behalf of our learned wise member.

tret · Post by **tret** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:16 pm

kmaherali wrote: If you will read the books of Mowlana Rumi and of Shah Shams Tabriz

Shams Tabriz composed a book? Which one?

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:32 pm

tret wrote:
kmaherali wrote: If you will read the books of Mowlana Rumi and of Shah Shams Tabriz
Shams Tabriz composed a book? Which one?

A book of Shams does not necessarily mean a book composed by Shams. It could mean a book about Shams for example, Maqalat - his discourses.