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www.ismaili.net :: View topic - ANTI GINAN BOOK AMONG ISMAILIS
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ANTI GINAN BOOK AMONG ISMAILIS
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star_munir



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1670

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is what he wrote:
Our Persian historians explain that Hasan II claimed to be the imam's sole vice-regent and deputy (qa'im maqam va na'ib-i munfarid). (134) At Mu'minabad, Hasan's position as khalifa was explicitly identified with that of the Fatimid caliph al-Mustansir, who had been the imam. After the proclamation of the qiyama, Hasan, in his epistles (fusul) and addresses, apparently hinted that he himself was the imam and the Qa'im al-qiyama, the son of an imam from the progeny of Nizar b. al-Mustansir, though in appearance he had been considered to be the son of Muhammad b. Buzurg-Ummid. (135) At any rate, it seems that Hasan II claimed the imamate in some sense towards the end of his life. (136).
Dr. Daftary's book was first published in 1990 by Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, New York and Melbourne, Australia. It is available in most of the Public Libraries
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2060
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:22 am    Post subject: Yes there are too many mistakes in this book. Reply with quote

Quote:
I HAVE JUST READ FEW PAGES FROM THIS BOOK ANF FOUND LOT OF MISTAKES.IF YOU WILL READ YOU WILL FIND THE FACT THAT AUTHOR IS TRYING TO MAKE ISMAILIS BELIEVE THAT GINANS ARE WRONG


I read the book of Farhad Daftari" A short history of Ismailis" this week and I agree with Star_Munir that Mr. Daftari criticized our ginans and made lots of mistakes in this book, I personally found 6 mistakes in this book which is untolerable for any true Ismailis. This mistakes are mentioned already in this post so I do not repeat it but only few mistakes I should write here.
1, Mr. Daftari wrote that "SYED DADU" was an Ismaili pir, but if you look
the list of Ismaili pirs you can not find Syed Dadu's name in the list.
2, He also wrote that more appointments of pirs in Sind/Punjab was stopped by Imam because there was big quarrels broken out amongst sons of pir Hasan Kabir din and Syed Imamshah. which is totally wrong the further appointments of pirs in Sind and Punjab had been stopped because Sind Jamat excuse pir Tajdin that he had stolen the gown which was gifted to Imam pir Tajdin denied it and jamat hit him on head and thus Pir Tajdin was passed away and this incident made Imam angry and therefore he stopped further appointments of pirs in Sind/Punjab province.
3. About the 'BUJ NIRANJAN" he referenced Mr. Asani's book, according Mr. Asani Buj Niranjan is not written by Pir Sadardin but a Sufi Sect name "KADARI" from Sind had written this ginan and Pir Sadardin adopted it and put his name in it. which is not write I can proove it but..... to much discussion already posted about this topic so forget it.

As per my personal thinking Mr. Daftari think that only Bohras and Ishnasharis are only real Ismailis and for that purpose he seems to me praise this sect praise their Sufis e.t.c. more then Nizari Ismaili and when the time come for Nizari Ismaili he write only few sentences.
I THINK MR. DAFTARI MUST BE AN ISNAASHRI!!!! OR MUST BE FROM IRAN!!! He quoted many times this sentence in his book "WE IRANI" OUR IRANI TRADITION"
As a head of Department of Reaserch and Publications in IIS he should write as a reliable person no doubt that he has lots of knowledge about Ismailism.

I think TB should read every publication before they put that publication for sell.
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agakhani



Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 271

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Nuseri who wrote BHUJ NIRIJAN is a so called ginan written by some Qadri sufi?



First of all!
This subject has been discussed earlier and has been proven that "BUJ NIRANJAN GRANTH" has been composed by Pir Sadardin. not any Sufi.

BYW: If Ginans hater has some proof for his above saying then! I would love to read it! same question was asked to Mr.A. Asani and he was miserably failed to provide any proof because there is a none! icon_rolleyes.gif
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1378

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To kmaherali:Ya ALI Madad.
My question in other title are the ginans better than farmans?
Admin deleted the rest of my absolute true with reasoning on unwarranted query.
My 7-8 post never appear on this subject.
Admin know has become this site store room of Ginans.
Overdose of ginan may get one stuck in path to marifat as trying to read n read more instead of searching within itself.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19005

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nuseri wrote:
To kmaherali:Ya ALI Madad.
My question in other title are the ginans better than farmans?

Consider and ponder over the Farmans below.

"Memorize the ruhani Ginans given by Pir Sadardin and the Farmans of the Imam of the Time. If you read them just as you read newspapers, how will they benefit you? Comprehend each and every line by your heart. Every line of the Ginans and of My Farmans is as good as a thousand of lines."(Farman No.64, Wadhvaarn Camp ,19-10-1903)

"Many times I have recommended to my spiritual children that they should remember the Ginans, that they should understand the meaning of these Ginans and that they should carry these meanings in their hearts. It is most important that my spiritual children from wherever they may come should, through the ages and from generation to generation, hold to this tradition which is so special, so unique and so important to my jamat." Karachi, 16.12.1964

Is there any need for further explanation?
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agakhani



Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 271

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kbhai,
There is one idiom which is suit to that particular individual: that "leopard can not change its spot" or kutte ki punchh kabhi sidhi nahi ho sakati. that particular entity's haters towards ginans are not hidden any more, it was shown this in his very first post in this forum! and he has been not changed since then!!
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1378

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya ALI madad.
You wrote that you find guidance n direction from ginans composed 700 year ago.
My specific question how come your point as a ginan bhagat so 10 point of superiority of ginans where your personal guidance n direction also received by Imam farmans in last
150 years.
Imam has used the word ruhani ginan of particular named pirs.
If 30% of total ginan are from that pirs,that cuts out 70 % of data now comes the word ruhani.
Who separates them against non ruhani one,what is their spiritual level status.
I feel hardly 30-40% ginan of his can seen as ruhani.
So Imam has sent the message that out of 100 only around 12 needed to recited regularly.
Is also sent an observation that one out of eight books in enough then n lesser now.
What year the farman was made.India literacy rate was just 26% during it independence (1947).
Imam knew that was quantity is more than enough.
So going tom tom n scholastic over is being ignorance of faith building steps in JK..
Is reflect Pirs spend most of time in composing volumes than time given on preaching.
Strategy of a Dai was limited material n more preaching time resulted in higher strike rate.
What Ali says in few word is seen,but he mean it also there between the word.
Not many can do that.
So words from unwarranted ( crap) material like kazi,taxi,daji,etc is a search of an ignorant n those debating in pure Clash of ignorants.
If then Khojas would have strictly followed Imam SMS ,split may not have happened easily then.
MHI would be having momim to rewrite the Fatimid history of this time,but what is seen smart Momin not becoming part of history but debating the past history.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5812

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nuseri wrote:
Ya ALI madad.
So Imam has sent the message that out of 100 only around 12 needed to recited regularly..


Please post the Farman.

I have not seen any Farmans saying that only 12 ginans are to be recited regularly and if you have heard, it is your responsibility to quote with date and place or admit that you have been telling nonsense taking Imam's name in vain.

This would not be the first time you try to mislead and in that you are no different from some of the other people who post on this Forum and of which you have complaint in the past.


Last edited by Admin on Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1378

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya ALI madad.
It is again your blinkered observation.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5812

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nuseri wrote:
Ya ALI madad.
It is again your blinkered observation.


If you have nothing to share, just say that you do not have any place or date and the Farman was never made and you are just sorry for misleading everyone here. That should be enough as an apology.

Admin
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1378

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya ALI madad.
Why did you delete the content of my post.let it be there for 24 hour n reply to that.
Why did the leaders ask IMAM SMS then ,how many would those in numbers after deducting the the work of other pirs n non ruhani ginans of the mentioned pir.
Imam would have given them that ,that I say would exact percentage of Imam ordered.
The message implied to numbers of ginan that Momin should try to memorize.
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1378

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya Ali madad.
An honest answer needed.no personal prejudice please.
Would a father/teacher like to order it child/student ,if the child/student is just into primary level class little upper than nursery level to memorize n understand over 1000 poems or few number of poems ?
Please answer it.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19005

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nuseri wrote:
Ya Ali madad.
An honest answer needed.no personal prejudice please.
Would a father/teacher like to order it child/student ,if the child/student is just into primary level class little upper than nursery level to memorize n understand over 1000 poems or few number of poems ?
Please answer it.
It is a subjective matter. Back during the time of MSMS there were individuals who could recite many Ginans by heart. Today things are different, so you memorize as many as you can. The Imam has certainly not specified the number. Each person has his/her own preferences, so not everyone will try to remember the same Ginans.
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nuseri



Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Posts: 1378

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To kmaherali:ya ALI madad.
Imam SMS was to the point in figures and value of it there was any deeper message.
In the same farman ,imam has further ahead said only ruhani ginans of x pirs understanding it.1:1000 ratio of reading zahiri stuff.
The value n ratio is clearly mentioned.
So if one were take all words of Imam as true. He tried send a implied message that few for example knowing 20 lines of those defined ginan had same or more value than 20000 lines of unwarranted (crap) material.
So father is very clear n leniant is his farman.
What was quality of missionary in those times?
Misreading for ignorant that ginan = farman.
All stuff xyz under definition of ginan is farman,
This could have been used by enemy of Imams.to create split then.
It clearly states only specified ginan of x pirs only and farmans together, not only one.it was valued at 1:1000 junky material.
It is not a message that all ginan from A-z pirs is not equal to ginans.
In competent alwaez low level of understanding simple farman.
What I see over educated hollow haqiqati not trying for baatin,life partially wasted.

I wish member to post extract of farmans of Imam SMS.
I will try to expand for baatin understanding.
It is gems for all of us.
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mazharshah



Joined: 19 Jul 2015
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Observation;
In our community there are almost 5 types of 'satt sung' or 'study groups' in Karachi.
1.Qurani group
2.Farmani gruop
3.Ginani group
4.Hunzai group
5.General group
Farmani group is not so active as others, rest have their gatherings on weekly/bi weekly/monthly basis. Now a days as waizes/lectures are less arranged the vacuum is filled by these groups as Ismailis are eager for knowledge. But some time there is a problem, some enthusiastic and extremist elements pulling legs of each other and that ends in insults to each other. These groups are good assets if they research more on various subjects on Ismailism and discuss in friendly manner and not imposing their ideas on each other. They should be broad minded and learn to debate politely as we are all followers of same Imam.
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