www.ismaili.net

Also i have no idea about what Taravis is?

That is sum-total of your knowledge on Sunni Islam.

" Lakum dinkum Wliya din"

Wrong application. This Aya is part of Sura Kafiroon.
Surah Kafiroon is addressed to non believers of Islam.

We have such a long discussion only becaus Ismailis are confused wether they are suppose to fast or not.

Who told you that we Ismailis are confused?, we are and we were never ever been confused, since one of our imam freed us from that burden of Shariya, Jakat, Rozas and Namaz more than 1000 years ago!


so, stop misquoting in this forum and don't spread any wrong information in this thread, otherwise you know me very well!

Surah Kafiroon is addressed to non believers of Islam.

Everybody knows that but does Quran has any ayas in which Allahtala talks about for that "MUSHRIQ" peoples liie you! who first takes Baiya of their Imams and latter on they broke their promises? You know!! whom I am talking about? don't you!!?

zznoor wrote:

Also i have no idea about what Taravis is?

That is sum-total of your knowledge on Sunni Islam.

" Lakum dinkum Wliya din"

Wrong application. This Aya is part of Sura Kafiroon.
Surah Kafiroon is addressed to non believers of Islam.

Reply,

By quoting 'LAKUM DINAKUM........' I meant you go your way and I go mine on religious path and he admitted.

agakhani wrote:

Surah Kafiroon is addressed to non believers of Islam.

Everybody knows that but does Quran has any ayas in which Allahtala talks about for that "Munafiq" peoples who first takes Baiya of their Imams and latter on they broke their promises? You know!! whom I am talking about? don't you!!?

I stand by my Imam as rock and follow his farman. I damn care for others who just dance on website and say blah blah. You should have read my earlier posts which was deleted twice by Admin to favor you.

About "Lakum dinkum Wliya din" it has also been quoted by our Imam in one of the farmans and we have to say this.

Now about Islam: There are countless definitions of who is Muslim (zznoor knows one of them) and there are countless definition of who are the opponents of Islam.

The Muslims and the anti-Muslims are not always what one thinks of.

There are many who submit to the will of God and in my definition, they are Muslims and there are many who claim to be Muslims but are a disgrace to Islam... those who kill innocent people and shout "Allah hu Akbar" are amongst the last category.

kmaherali wrote:

junglikhan4 wrote:Reply,

Prophet Muhammad was a spiritual person and he had great stamina.
Quran says," Indeed in Rasulullah, there is a good example for you" 33/21.
When I say Prophet and Imam is best role model for us means we have to follow ethical values which they teach, preach and set example for others. Salat,zakat,saum, hajj, bandagi are the means to achieve the spiritual goal to wards fana fi Allah.

The Prophet and the Imams have the greatest stamina, which mortals like us cannot emulate. An ordinary person cannot run marathon race unless he is trained for that. Similarly Pirs have great stamina. In one of his Farmans MSMS said, that Pir Sadardeen used to perform bandagi for 16 hours! Ordinary murids cannot emulate that! The Peers and Imams have already attained the final station, they do not need to purify themselves through Ibadat.

Hence we ordinary mortals need Ibadat for purification according to the guidance of the Pirs and Imams. We follow what they teach us but not what they do.

A marathon runner can teach you how to improve your stamina, but you cannot run like him if you are not trained for that.

Reply,

I think by admitting Prophet and Imam as role models there can be worldly complications for which we may have no answers. Isn't it?

There are many who submit to the will of God and in my definition, they are Muslims and there are many who claim to be Muslims but are a disgrace to Islam... those who kill innocent people and shout "Allah hu Akbar" are amongst the last category.

Do not blame all Sunnis for those who kill innocent people.

"Lakum dinkum Wliya din"

There are many sects and there are many so called Sheikhs, Scholars, Pirs and Murshids. There are many books written beside Quran and Authentic Sunna. If everybody hides behind "Lakum dinkum Wliya din" then Islam will degenerate like Hinduism with many gods and holy mans. Islam is what Prophet has described, with its 5 fundamental foundation.

Saying Shahada is only entry into Islam. Other four becomes fird on you. Otherwise you are Muslim just in name. And Muslim in name outnumber Muslim in deed.

kmaherali wrote: The Peers and Imams have already attained the final station, they do not need to purify themselves through Ibadat.

According to Quran and Hadith even Prophet was not sure what will happen to him after his death as evident from Aya and Hadith

[Shakir 46:9] Say: I am not the first of the messengers, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me, and I am nothing but a plain warner.

Hadith 266 (Volume 5)
Narrated 'Um al-'Ala:

An Ansari woman who gave the pledge of allegiance to the Prophet that the Ansar drew lots concerning the dwelling of the Emigrants. 'Uthman bin Maz'un was decided to dwell with them (i.e. Um al-'Ala's family), 'Uthman fell ill and I nursed him till he died, and we covered him with his clothes. Then the Prophet came to us and I (addressing the dead body) said, "O Abu As-Sa'ib, may Allah's Mercy be on you! I bear witness that Allah has honored you." On that the Prophet said, "How do you know that Allah has honored him?" I replied, "I do not know. May my father and my mother be sacrificed for you, O Allah's Apostle! But who else is worthy of it (if not 'Uthman)?" He said, "As to him, by Allah, death has overtaken him, and I hope the best for him. By Allah, though I am the Apostle of Allah, yet I do not know what Allah will do to me," By Allah, I will never assert the piety of anyone after him. That made me sad, and when I slept I saw in a dream a flowing stream for 'Uthman bin Maz'un. I went to Allah's Apostle and told him of it. He remarked, "That symbolizes his (good) deeds."

do your best with your deeds and follow Islam perfectly as per your understanding and leave rest to Allah

junglikhan4 wrote:I think by admitting Prophet and Imam as role models there can be worldly complications for which we may have no answers. Isn't it?

Yes of course, the nature of Imamat entails the Imam to work 24/7 regardless of his age. He is also expected to involve and participate in mutifarious activities which an ordinary murid does not have to.

zznoor wrote:According to Quran and Hadith even Prophet was not sure what will happen to him after his death as evident from Aya and Hadith

This is the major difference between exoteric Islam and esoteric Islam. According to exoteric Islam the Prophet was an ordinary man, whereas in esoteric Islam the Prophet and the Imams are Divine. They intercede on behalf of the murids and hence they know what the hereafter is like. I would encourage you to read a recent anecdote involving the present Imam to understand the nature of the Intercessor at:

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 1&start=30

For us Ismailis there is no need to go back to the hadiths and the Qur'an. We have recent examples and anecdotes....

I would also encourage you to go through the thread below...

Allah and the Nur of Allah

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... de=results

To zznoor:Ya Ali madad.

What so great about fasting a ritual of 1400 years old.everything evolves
is also said in Quran.(so can be rituals)
just do go gaga over 5 candles of low light.it was needed when electricity was not invented.
Today nearly 10-12 of the poorest of world population are on force fasting
on one meal a day.
is their status is those nearer to hell like or heaven like situation?
Answer that.
can you debate on true realty of today or cling on heard said n saw words n statement of the Deads.
As you are stuck into nursery rhymes.
which poem can be compared to fasting.
from
ringa ringa roses,baa baa black sheep,jack n jill ,humpty dumpty and others
On this website come into reality of living Imam,what HE says in FARMANS ( not perse in speeches n memiors,etc) is 1000% more VALID than what is written is holy books of fake saying of an entity.
so from now on ,ismailis follow a living entity ,so any any word good,useless rubbish as understood by you at zahiri level should be seen here or repeated again.you will be considered as a lunatic.
(gone mad n gaga over the deads skeletons).

SAMAJDARO KO ISHARA KAAFI HAI.

A moonlit run after a day of fasting

The month of Ramadan, when observant Muslims fast from sunrise to sunset, can be a difficult time for people whose lives revolve around sport - it's hard to exercise when it's forbidden to drink. Alice Morrison in Marrakesh decided to try a day of fasting, followed by a moonlit race.

I have always admired the way my Muslim friends approach the month of Ramadan with such discipline and good humour. Fasting in Ramadan is one of the obligations of every Muslim, one of the Five Pillars of Islam. To me, it has always seemed so difficult: not eating and, even worse, not drinking between the hours of sunrise and sunset, which here in Morocco this summer means between the hours of approximately 03:50 and 19:45.

And yet hundreds of millions across the world do this and still stick to rigorous training programmes, and even compete.

This year, I decided to do it for one day, so I signed up for a Ramadan 12km run. The idea was to bring runners from across Morocco to break their fast together, run through the desert night and then celebrate with a big meal before dawn.
A section of the course along a dried-up river bed
The night before, I set my alarm for 03:30 so I could get up to eat and drink. I couldn't eat much at that time, just some sweet bread and cake but I drank down a full litre of water and added in some electrolyte tablets to keep my salt and trace mineral levels high during the day.




I went back to sleep, woke up as usual at 06:00 and reached for the glass of water by my bed. It wasn't there as I had removed it the night before, and then I remembered - no food and no water. The morning was hard because my mouth felt dry and my breath smelled horrible in spite of lots of tooth-brushing. I wasn't hungry but I was definitely thirsty.

By mid-afternoon, I was hungry too and quite grumpy. I had a bit of a headache and I felt out of sorts, as if I was at the very beginning of a dose of flu. I went out to do some errands and it was boiling outside, about 45C. Everyone around me was maintaining their usual good humour, so I felt ashamed of my irritability. It was a reminder that there is more to fasting than just not eating and drinking.

At 18:00, my flatmate and I started to get our stuff together to set off for the desert. This is often the time that people do their training in Ramadan and now I understood why - the end is in sight. With just under two hours to go, I felt suddenly energised.

In the car, we experienced another Ramadan tradition - crazy driving. Everyone is in a rush to get home for the fast-breaking meal, iftar or ftour, and any regard for road rules goes out of the window. Red lights are jumped, people swerve out in front of you with no notice, and mopeds and motorbikes weave in and out of the cars. "There goes the ftour ambulance," is the slightly grisly Marrakesh joke.

We arrived as the sun was setting and shepherds were bringing in a flock of sheep and herd of camels. By now, I was clock-watching, and inwardly swearing as we joined a long queue to register.

Then, there it was! Ftour time had arrived. I couldn't wait and immediately opened my bottle of mineral water, said "Bismillah" ("In the Name of God") and took a long swig. It tasted like nectar.

There were about 100 runners gathered for ftour, a mixture of Moroccans and non-Moroccans and nearly half were women. We tucked into our feast of traditional spicy harira soup made from beans and lentils eaten with a honey-covered pastry called shebakiyya and fresh dates. Delicious.

There were also sandwiches and pancakes and fresh orange juice. I ate a normal-sized meal but found that I was endlessly thirsty and drank two litres or so of water and orange juice, followed by strong, sweet coffee.

At 22:30 the moon rose. We gathered at the start with our head-torches on, wished each other "Good luck" and "Bon courage" and "Ramadan Mubarak" ("Have a Blessed Ramadan"). And we were off.

The first part of the race was along a sandy river bed with rocky patches, and steep cliffs on either side. You had to watch your feet and the laughing and joking soon quietened as we settled into our running rhythm. All you could hear was the thud of feet and the chattering of the crickets.

The first checkpoint was at the end of a short, sharp climb and then we were running over the hilltops, along the side of newly-harvested fields. Far in the distance, the lights of Marrakesh glimmered. Now we were going up and down and I started to feel the effects of the day. I had been keeping up a good pace and had a slight stitch but felt full of energy after my carbohydrate-laden breakfast.
Alice (right) during the race
Suddenly, I got terrible stomach cramps. I was paying for those two litres I had drunk. My stomach was swollen and swishing around like an enormous water balloon. Later, when I told the Moroccan runners this, they laughed and said it was a rookie mistake - it is very important not to drink too much when you break the fast. That advice came too late for me, however, and the next 2km were agony.

Then it eased off and the last 4km were just pure pleasure. By now, the field was spaced out so I was alone with just the moon for company. Running at night is the ultimate freedom. You have to live fully in the moment as you can't see further than your head-torch so there is no worrying about what is to come or dreading the next hill.

The quiet was broken by the noise of cheering ahead and there was the finish line. All the finishers were waiting to shout the runners in and I crossed the line feeling like a champion.

Running brings everyone together and there were no differences of nationality, religion or gender as we compared times, leaned on each other to stretch and took victory pictures. In a world which sometimes feels so divided, it is a reminder that we are all just people making our way through life as best we can.

For me, the spirit of Ramadan was embodied at that moment - the shared discipline and effort, the equality of everyone regardless of background or ability or status embarking on the same task, and then the communal celebration and shared pleasure of that task achieved.

Alice Morrison is an adventurer and writer based in Morocco

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33423846

"Cooking for Ramadan seems like an oxymoron, but the two large meals of the night hours, the predawn suhoor and the sundown iftar, are opportunities for home cooks to come up with ever more alluring, filling and nourishing dishes.

“It sounds strange that Ramadan is a time for even thinking more about food,” said Razia Parvez, a homemaker in Boonton, N.J., who was born in Pakistan. “But cooking helps me get through the fast, because I can smell everything and imagine the tastes that I will be serving my family later.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/dinin ... pe=article

The 10 Batini Fasts as per Man Samjamni

314 Man Samjaanni Pir Shams

1 Man Samjaanni ki esi baataa

Such is the description of matters in the Man Samjamni (explanation of the mind)

2 Duniyaa ajaanni na jaanne dhaataa

The world at large does not know about it's essence

3 Das rojaa batuni kahie

We consider ten batini fasts

4 Aval rojaa seer kaa kahie

The first fast is of the head (proper use of the intellect)

5 Dujaa rojaa chasam daari

The second fast is of of the eyes (vision with proper intent)

6 Trijaa rojaa naak no vaari

The third fast is of the nose (smell good things)

7 Chothaa rojaa mukh ku dije

The fourth fast is of the mouth (proper eating)

8 Paanch maa rojaa jabaan kije

The fifth fast is of the tongue (proper speech)

9 Chhatthaa rojaa kaan naa kahie

The sixth fast is of the ears (proper hearing and listening)

10 Saat maa rojaa dil naa kahie

The seventh fast is of the heart (proper feeling)

11 Aatth maa rojaa nafas kaa jaano

The eigth fast is of the nafs ( lawful pleasures)

12 Nomaa rojaa haath pichhaano

The nineth fast is of the hands ( lawful action)

13 Dasmaa rojaa paaun kaa dharie - fast of the feet

The tenth fast is of the feet (lawful movement, no wandering)

14 Seer thi paaun rojaa karie

The fast is considered from head to feet (entire body)

15 Esaa rojaa karo tame jaae

Perform such fasts.

16 Tab jaai moman kilaae

Then you can be considered as a momin.

Re Tunhi – Das rojaa je dhare
Te chhe moman vir re
Man Samjaanni kare
Boleaa Shams Pir re

O you! The one who keeps these 10 fasts is a real momin who demonstrates true understanding of the heart (mind) , says Pir Shams.

shamsu wrote:In Islam fasting is done for the entire month of Ramadan in order to thank Allah for the priceless gift of "Deen Islam"

This is inaccurate. Muslims fast because it has been prescribed and ordained by Almighty Allah as mentioned in the Qur'an:

Surah 2 Verse 183
"O' you who have Faith! Fasting is prescribed for you as it was prescribed for those before you, so that you may guard yourselves (against evil)."

Muslims fast during the month of Ramadhan because it has been clearly identified in Surah Baqarah from 183-185.

shamsu wrote:As Ismailis we were released from all shariati binds

Again inaccuracies. There is NO farman from our present Living Imam that says Ismailis are not required to fast. Again quoting from sources that are not academically traceable is misguidance. Also, it is against our Tariqah because we have a Living Imam to guide us.

shamsu wrote:48th Imam placed an even harder responsibility upon us. Imam expects us to fast in a batuni manner by not having a single impure thought all year long.

Again, this is against our core fundamentals of our Tariqah. We are only to take guidance from our Living Imam. And our Living Imam is 49th Imam. This is again manifested by Ismailis not participating in Ashura because we have our Present Living Imam to guide us. Our core fundamental belief is to take guidance from our Living Imam.

There are Syrian Ismailis, Persian Ismailis and Afghan Ismailis that fast during the month of Ramadhan. I as an Ismaili fast during the month of Ramadhan. Our Imam has NEVER said in any Farman that we are relieved from fasting.

The Hadith al-Thaqalayn refers to a saying (hadith) about which translates to "the two weighty things." In this hadith Prophet Muhammad (saw) referred to the Qur'an and Ahl al-Bayt ('people of the house', Prophet's family) as the two weighty things. The Hadith is accepted by all Muslims.

"...I leave behind me amidst you two weighty things, the "Book of Allah" (The Holy Qur'an) and my "Ahl al-Bayt". Should ye be attached to these two, never shall ye get astray after me, for verily these two will never be separated from each other until they meet me at the "Spring of Kauthar".

We have been given a heavy responsibility to hold fast to both the Imamate and the Qur'an. Our Living Imam guides us with the interpretation of our faith; i.e. how we need to live within the ethics of Islam. The commandment of Allah is mentioned clearly in the Qur'an, which we need to balance between the two weighty obligations.

Our Imam has NEVER said in any Farman that we are relieved from fasting.

And Imam also never said that you have to observe fast.

Its totally up to us, either to observe it on not.

I as an Ismaili is totally free from shariati acts, we Ismailis already born on the level of tariqat and we have to reach haqiqat and marifat. Those who are again going towards shariat are only degrade their level of soul.

Here is an anecdote,

Once Salman farsi along with abuzar ghafari and 40 others( not exact) come to the Prophet Muhammad sas, they said to Prophet, we observe hajj, pay zakat, observe roza, is this only ISLAM, then Prophet sas said to them after 12 at night, sit for ibadat and bandagi, then after that they all along with prophet muhammad sas sit in the bandagi at night. Thats bait ul khayal, thats ISMAILISM, THOSE PEOPLE WERE ISMAILIS WHO SIT WITH PROPHET AT NIGHT IN BANDAGI" they were in search of haqiqat, and rest were bussy in sharait.

And Imam also never said that you have to observe fast.

I am afraid that this is indeed a counter silly statement to make. This is generally the kind of counter statements most of us as Ismailis will do, which is definitely against the Farman of our Living Imam. I will not quote the Farman here as it is an open forum but in gist our Imam has guided us to build bridges with our Ummah and I caution our Ismaili brothers and sisters to please do not tarnish the reputation of our Imamate by making counter silly statements and concluding that it is a message from our Imam. Well it is definitely NOT. And I will explain here.

As a Muslim, we are required to fulfill basic fundamentals that is, by virtue of common sense, required and obligatory and our Imam is not going to make Farmans on fundamentals because it is given that we are required to do so. For instance, a male child has to get circumcised as it is a covenant made between Allah and Prophet Abraham. This covenant is practice by both Muslims and Jews, including Ismailis. You certainly couldn't make an argument here. Muslims are required to get married through the act of Nikkah. It is given and again you certainly couldn't make an argument here either. As Muslims we are required to consume Hallal food just like a Jewish family is required to consume Kosher. This commandment appears both in the Holy Qur'an (2:173) and Jewish Torah (Deuteronomy 12:21). This tradition goes back thousands of years and you definitely can't make an argument here also.

Now, there is no Farman on any of the above, so are you "ismaili03" making a claim that these are all excused? If so, you are certainly misguiding the rest by making such a counter silly statements.

If you decide not to fast, it is your prerogative. As I have said that there are Syrian, Iranian and Afghan Ismailis that do fast. Therefore, please do not misinterpret the non-Farmans as a conclusion that you are excused. Because each person will have to account for his/her own deeds and so shall you.

Surah 17:13
And We have fastened every man's deeds to his neck, and on the Day of Resurrection, We shall bring out for him a book which he will find wide open.

Suarh 99:7-8
So whosoever does good equal to the weight of an atom (or a small ant), shall see it. And whosoever does evil equal to the weight of an atom (or a small ant), shall see it.

Now, there is no Farman on any of the above, so are you "ismaili03" making a claim that these are all excused? If so, you are certainly misguiding the rest by making such a counter silly statements.

First of all you said that Imam never said to not observe fast , which is also a silly statement and you are misleading peoples because you comes up with a conclusion that we have to observe fast because Imam never make any Farman on it.

Same thing I said, we do not have to observe fast because Imam never make any Farman on it.

Read again on the very next line I said fasting is totally up to us , either to observe it or not. So why thus debate.

I know fasting is beneficial for your health, science had proved that fasting whole day can improve your digestive system. But not eating whole day will not benefited you in your afterlife. But FAST OF YOUR SOUL WILL BENEFIT YOU IN YOUR AFTERLIFE" and what is fast of soul, its to control your anger, lust, greed etc.

So being an Ismaili, I am lucky to get born on tariqat level, and I don't want to degrade my level of soul to shariat. These 1.5 billion muslims do not eat and drink for 30 days and think they made Allah happy , but what they didn't think that in between these 30 days they hurt many people, they abuse somebody at work, they get angry, etc this is not Roza at all.

you comes up with a conclusion that we have to observe fast because Imam never make any Farman on it.

I didn't conclude that the Imam has indirectly ordained us. Are you serious? No, it is ordained by ALLAH who has said so in the Qur'an (2:183).

Yes, I agree that spiritual fasting and abstinence from evil deeds is equally important for the next life. You are right. But that doesn't excuse you from adhering to the commandment clearly mentioned in the Qur'an. I am constantly hearing so many Ismaili brothers and sisters are expressing that we are excused from fasting during the month of Ramadhan. That signals out a wrong message to the Ummah that our Living Imam has given us guidance against so and so. Please show me the excuse sheet or context or citing cause I have not come acorss a single Farman that clears us from this obligation. Perhaps, there is one that I am not aware of?

As I have said, we are required to fulfill basic fundamentals that is, by virtue of common sense, required and obligatory and our Imam is not going to make Farmans on fundamentals because it is given that we are required to do so.

I as an Ismaili is totally free from shariati acts, we Ismailis already born on the level of tariqat and we have to reach haqiqat and marifat. Those who are again going towards shariat are only degrade their level of soul.

Really...!!! Isn't that a pretty strong statement to make? Please think for a moment what are others feeling about your statement since this is an open forum.

Your concept isn't wrong but your approach is rather harsh. None of us are born with special favors. That would negate the Asma Ul-Husna (i.e. 99 Names of Allah). Allah is fair to all of His creations. Yes, we as Ismailis have gateway to ilm (knowledge) to reach Haqiqat and Marifat through the guidance of our Living Imam. But be careful of how you contextualize your statements. It can be rather misleading.

what is fast of soul, its to control your anger, lust, greed etc.

Let me ask you, did you fulfill the fast of your soul? It appears that you are retaliating in frustration and anger...so may I ask you how are you fulfilling your Batini Fast?

Please do not preach if you can't practice. Enough said because you don't understand where I am coming from. You are in the mode of retaliation and in such a mode, all common sense thinking ceases to exist.

If you do not wish to confer with what's in the Qur'an, that is your prerogative. I am complying with what Prophet Muhammad (saw) said that is to hold tight to the rope of Imamate and the Qur'an.

kanada wrote:[ I am constantly hearing so many Ismaili brothers and sisters are expressing that we are excused from fasting during the month of Ramadhan.

You are right, we are not excused of food-fasting, we are forbidden of food-fasting in that month.

The subject has been discussed at length and in order not to repeat everything, please search "fasting" in the Forum (higher on this page) and read again all the posts and after that, you can believe whatever suits you but please do not restart the same questions which have already been discussed as great lenght in the Forum. Thanks

Admin

That signals out a wrong message to the Ummah that our Living Imam has given us guidance against so and so.

Imam never gives us wrong message and Imam always talking about Pluralism and we Ismailis know that, we don't care what others think about us, in Pakistan we are known as Kafirs but only we know we are the true Muslims who follow Imamat.

So only to please Ummah we have to perform all shariati acts like hajj, Roza, Maatam in ashura, growing beard and wear burqa. They are living in 1400 years ago not we.

Allah is fair to all of His creations.

Yes Allah believes in Masawaat, but Allah takes fair decision on the basis of our Deeds. Allah never gives us every thing in Plate.

Let me ask you a question.

Why Allah born human as ashraf ul makhlukaat ( highest in all creation ), and animals and other organism as lowest in all creation, where us fairness of Allah?

I have the answer , I want your comment.

Let me ask you, did you fulfill the fast of your soul?

Yes I do not perform fast if soul, I am angry and get frustrated but I try my best to fulfill Fast of Soul, and I know one day practice makes me perfect.

kanada wrote:Really...!!! Isn't that a pretty strong statement to make? Please think for a moment what are others feeling about your statement since this is an open forum.

This is not an open forum although accessible by all. The numbers viewing these forums comprise of an infinite minority of the general population. There are only a handful of active participants although there are many who may read the material. Also it is not easy for people especially the new-comers to access information.

So for all intents and purposes it is a 'batini' forum where our batini ideas are discussed.

kmaherali wrote:"I feel the above statement made recently by MHI is very significant and we need to reflect upon it in light of our discussion on fasting, namaz etc. In my opinion it says a great deal about his vision for the future and perhaps his 'Zahurat".

Can you please explain to me what is Zahurat? I am trying to learn and I have never heard of this. I apologize for my ignorance.

Thank you.

Admin wrote:You are right, we are not excused of food-fasting, we are forbidden of food-fasting in that month.

With all due respect Admin, I respect your beliefs. But I disagree with your message that we as Ismailis are forbidden. By saying "we", you have included me with your beliefs. Unfortunately, I don't agree with you.

Anyway, I appreciate your response.

With your guidance in reading rest of the forum, I have tried but I have to say that this is a complete mess. Ismailis brothers and sisters are posting statements without proper academic references and citing. These are mere opinions that seems mainly out of context and extreme heretic.

Sorry but I can't continue reading any further and I did NOT find the answer that I have been seeking.

If there is any knowledgeable Ismaili out there who can provide guidance, please PM me. I am not going to read this forum anymore.

kanada wrote: Can you please explain to me what is Zahurat? I am trying to learn and I have never heard of this. I apologize for my ignorance.

Thank you.

According to my understanding there is an expectation in the Jamat, that the Imam will attain a broader recognition within the society (apart from Ismailis) and therefore assume a broader role. This is called Zahurat derived from the word Zaher - to appear.

One expression of this phenomenon is the Imam appearing as a Mahdi who will deliver mankind from oppression and bring about justice and peace. There is a thread which discusses this issue at:


Hazar Imam to manifest as "The Mahdi" for other Sh
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 74&start=0

Being an Ismaili I fast because;
1. Quran says." 0 ye who believe, fasting is prescribed for you as it was prescribed for those before you, so that you acquire Taqwa. (al Baqara 2/183 )

2. MSMS said, " Haqiqati Mo'min NOT ONLY fast in the month of Ramadhan but for him 360 days are like fasting ........".

3. In Ginan Pir Sadruddin said,
JO NAFSANIYAAT KU NAKHEY
SOB ROZEY RAMZAN KEY RAKHEY ( those who do not want to fast in month of Ramazan usually twist the meaning).

4. Above all Hazar Imam himself and his family members fast in the month of Ramzan. Sufficient proof for me to fast.

mazharshah wrote:Being an Ismaili I fast because;
1. Quran says." 0 ye who believe, fasting is prescribed for you as it was prescribed for those before you, so that you acquire Taqwa. (al Baqara 2/183 )

2. MSMS said, " Haqiqati Mo'min NOT ONLY fast in the month of Ramadhan but for him 360 days are like fasting ........".

3. In Ginan Pir Sadruddin said,
JO NAFSANIYAAT KU NAKHEY
SOB ROZEY RAMZAN KEY RAKHEY ( those who do not want to fast in month of Ramazan usually twist the meaning).

4. Above all Hazar Imam himself and his family members fast in the month of Ramzan. Sufficient proof for me to fast.

Based upon your logic - you should wear shoes inside JK.

As Hazar Imam wears his shoes inside JK.

Shams.

It seems to be me that over the last few months this board is becoming more and more radicalized and more and more intolerant of diversity or pluralism that Hazar Imam seems to espouse.
The newbies all seem to think that their version or their interpretation of ismailism is correct and everyone else is wrong - instead of offering an argument or a discussion - it seems like people are issuing fatwas - and grossly misquoting the Farmans of the Imam - but anyways - here is my thought - for all of us who claim to have all of this knowledge and an insight into what Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah was thinking or what Nasir Khusraw meant ...

Eji Ajaajil firashtaa bujarag kahiye
ane budhivant kahiye tesaa;
chhatris karodd kitaabaa paddiyaa
pann bhitar bhed na paayaa ...

Think of the story of Moses and the Shepherd - before we claim to know anyone's faith or understanding of the faith.

Shams

ShamsB wrote:Based upon your logic - you should wear shoes inside JK.

As Hazar Imam wears his shoes inside JK.

Shams.

Shams, you really need to start respecting fellow Ismaili brothers and sisters beliefs. I have read your responses and often you come across to ridicule our brothers and sisters. I have not seen anyone standing up to those ridicule behavior of yours. And I feel that it is about time you need to be told that you are sometime very offensive. If you feel that batini roza is more important than what is mentioned BLACK & WHITE in the Qur'an, then you are failing miserably here since you are not even attaining batini roza by ridiculing your own Ismaili brothers and sisters.

If anyone of us believe, which is against yours, then please try to embrace diversity as our Imam is trying to preach.