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What about those thing they did not obeyed that hidayats/nashiyats of prophet Mohammed (PBUH) during near his death?
What about those faramins of our previous Imams?

In your above quote of farmans it doesn't say any thing to forfeit the older farmans!!!! matter of facts that these faramans are not cleared about how good that three caliphs were? except few things goods about 3 caliphs!! i

We can not change our history. The matter of the 3 Califs has been discussed in Shia and Sunni books for Centuries. You can be gentle with a dog, feed him, be friend with him, a dog will not turn out to be a cat, he will remain a dog. But what is the necessity to bark at the dogs and provoke them, especially since all those are dead anyway since Centuries and it will do not good to anyone to call them heroes or dogs...

Today the Farmans is to seek peace and unity, seek respect and give respect.

Today we are lucky that we have guidance from the Living Imam for our time.

To Admin:Ya Ali Madad.
You have 'as always' wisely given your statement on Dogs and those who are dead. Can you please give your wise ,valued opinion for the 'living serpents'.


To zznoor: Ya Ali Madad I am still awaiting your first answer.As your current stand of your faith.( I hope it was not a one night stand of your early er beliefs.).
your statements has made do some home work and with that I have set of 12 questions for you.
Please read the Ayat what GOD does to person who knowingly wronged the word of HIS in the Holy book.

agakhani wrote:In your above quote of farmans it doesn't say any thing to forfeit the older farmans!!!! matter of facts that these faramans are not cleared about how good that three caliphs were? except few things goods about 3 caliphs!! i

He does not have to explicitly state that he is forfeiting the previous Farmans. It is implicit, we need to use our intellects to determine that. MSMS indicated in his proclamation that the Caliphs served the cause of Islam, so it is not appropriate to condemn them outrightly.

Today we have artefacts at the AKM ( the astrolabe) from the Ummayyad period in Spain which depict the harmony of all faiths!

To:Kamaherali.
Does IIS has memiors of H.H the Agakhan III in main syllabus for it's students?
If a person want to explain a status of souls or understanding made simple given by earlier by me one in analogy of water and other in not a serious as food for the body.
You expressed your indifference.I overlooked it then.
If our prayers, tasbih,farman ,ginans ,ibaadat as also said by our Imams are Food for our soul( ruhani khorak).
So to explain you youngster with commonsense as an analogy what can be better than explaining it with 'water' and spread of lavish meal.
Does explaining food of soul with examples for Food for body a folly.
Human being consists of mind,body and soul.
can you please explain what example is given to explain in IIS
for Shariat,Tariqat,Haqiqat n Marifat n also our tariqa practice into an analogy
in tune to today's reality n science in which a youngster feel logically convinced in a way.
I wish to cost benefit out of alumni output as millions of pounds are spent on IIS.

nuseri wrote:To:Kamaherali.
Does IIS has memiors of H.H the Agakhan III in main syllabus for it's students?
If a person want to explain a status of souls or understanding made simple given by earlier by me one in analogy of water and other in not a serious as food for the body.
You expressed your indifference.I overlooked it then.
If our prayers, tasbih,farman ,ginans ,ibaadat as also said by our Imams are Food for our soul( ruhani khorak).
So to explain you youngster with commonsense as an analogy what can be better than explaining it with 'water' and spread of lavish meal.
Does explaining food of soul with examples for Food for body a folly.
Human being consists of mind,body and soul.
can you please explain what example is given to explain in IIS
for Shariat,Tariqat,Haqiqat n Marifat n also our tariqa practice into an analogy
in tune to today's reality n science in which a youngster feel logically convinced in a way.
I wish to cost benefit out of alumni output as millions of pounds are spent on IIS.

Ya Ali Madad,

I was at the IIS about 30 years ago. Then we did discuss the Memoirs, especially the chapter on Islam.

To be very frank I don't understand what you are talking about with regard to food and water. However there is a Ginan which alludes to the water and food in a spiritua sense, if that is what you are asking for.

ejee taare paanneeno pottaddeeyo lejo saath
aagal koi kene paannee nahee aalshe
jeere vannajaaraa jee........................................3

Take along with you a container full of water.
There ahead no one will be there to give you water.
[This water refers to spiritual water which will ever
be with you even after death. The spiritual water is
'ameeras', the holy water which should be drunk regularly
with correct intentions to fill the 'spiritual' container.]

ejee taare khaavaanu(n) samar lejo saath
aagal haatt nahee vaanneeyaa, jeere vannajaaraa..............4

Take along with you the provision of food.
There ahead there will not be any shops to trade in.
[This food refers to spiritual food which is the Ginans
and reflection thereof. Reflecting upon the Ginans
regularly serves as spiritual food and substitutes the material
food which includes the pleasures of the world.
Remembrance also serves this nourishing purpose.]

http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/23173

zznoor wrote: With regard to the hadeeth mentioned, “Seek knowledge even if you have to go as far as China, for seeking knowledge is a duty on every Muslim,” Shaykh al-Albaani said in Da’eef al-Jaami’: “(It is) fabricated.” (no. 906).

This hadith was quoted by MSMS in his conversation with his murid. It can be referenced at:

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... opic&t=335

Hence for an Ismaili it is an authentic hadith, regardless of what the science of hadith says. According to Tusi the truth follows the Imam and not the other way round. Hence if the Imam says a statement is a hadith, it becomes a hadith even if it is not found anywhere else!

Admin wrote:We can not change our history. The matter of the 3 Califs has been discussed in Shia and Sunni books for Centuries. You can be gentle with a dog, feed him, be friend with him, a dog will not turn out to be a cat, he will remain a dog. But what is the necessity to bark at the dogs and provoke them, especially since all those are dead anyway since Centuries and it will do not good to anyone to call them heroes or dogs...

According to MSMS in his Memoirs (Pg 87/88), it is the dogs of Mecca who contributed to the rapid rise and spread of Islam:

"I go further: if after our Holy Prophet's Ascension into Heaven the succession had gone to the Ansar of Medina, a kindly, steadfast clan of yeomen, content to live on and work by the land, instead of to the Prophet's own tribe, the Quraish of Mecca, internationally-minded, virile, reckless folk with a lust for travel and adventure, who journeyed to Constianapole and Alexandria, to Rome even, to Iran and by sea to India in search of trade, then Islam would have taken a totally different turn. Under the leadership of the Ansar of Medina it would have been today - if it indeed still survived - one of many minor, little-known Eastern sects.

It needed the imagination, the international experience of the trade-conscious Quraish, the citizens of Mecca, to have made Islam a world religion whose call was spread abroad to all mankind."

To Admin:Ya Ali Madad.

Assuming that existing members can answer to shariati aligned postings.This will add value to what is already there.

As for me .My soul has been serving ALI.

I have never ever feared my past physical phases of Life cycles for HIS cause and NOR fear this phase blessed upon me.

I at times sign off with a Ginan lines......

'Pechee Honi Hoi So Hoiree....."

In serving his cause. 'COME WHAT MAY'

I think in addition to the principle of mutual respect. We should apply the notion of forgiveness. During the communist rule in Russia, Ismailis and indeed all faiths were persecuted and could not practice their faith in the open. MHI in his first Farman to the Moscow Jamat said:

"The second principle that Hazrat Ali emphasized, but which is part of the interpretation of Islam around the world, is the principle of generosity, of kindness, of caring, of forgiveness, that is, of searching to serve those in need, forgiving those who may have made a mistake or harmed you, because it is that forgiveness which will strengthen you and which will give them respect for your behaviour, and it will encourage them to follow your behaviour. Therefore, serving the weak, sewing the poor, working together to solve societal problems is a fundamental aspect of our faith. Remember this, because many of you are living in societies where there are deep differences, where there is much pain, and it is essential that you should look to the future on the principle of the ethics of-our faith, of the-generosity, kindness and forgiveness." ( Moscow, Jan 29, 1995)

I think the principle of forgiveness is also part of the reconciliatory approach towards the other tariqahs in Islam.

Nothing is gained by imposing one interpretation upon people disposed to another. Indeed the effect of such coercion is a denial of the principles of the faith…Shia and Sunni can co-exist and co-operate, true to their own interpretations of Islam but confederates in faith…Human genius is found in its variety, which is a work of Allah: Mawlana Hazar Imam, Khorog, Badakhshan, May 24, 1995.

Indeed if there is no harmony between the various sects, there can be natural catastrophy as per article below:

"All the people in this region are playing with fire. While they’re fighting over who is caliph, who is the rightful heir to the Prophet Muhammad from the seventh century — Sunnis or Shiites— and to whom God really gave the holy land, Mother Nature is not sitting idle. She doesn’t do politics — only physics, biology and chemistry. And if they add up the wrong way, she will take them all down.

The only “ism” that will save them is not Shiism or Islamism but “environmentalism” — understanding that there is no Shiite air or Sunni water, there is just “the commons,” their shared ecosystems, and unless they cooperate to manage and preserve them (and we all address climate change), vast eco-devastation awaits them all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/opini ... pe=article

kmaherali wrote:Indeed if there is no harmony between the various sects, there can be natural catastrophy as per article below:

"All the people in this region are playing with fire. While they’re fighting over who is caliph, who is the rightful heir to the Prophet Muhammad from the seventh century — Sunnis or Shiites— and to whom God really gave the holy land, Mother Nature is not sitting idle. She doesn’t do politics — only physics, biology and chemistry. And if they add up the wrong way, she will take them all down.

The only “ism” that will save them is not Shiism or Islamism but “environmentalism” — understanding that there is no Shiite air or Sunni water, there is just “the commons,” their shared ecosystems, and unless they cooperate to manage and preserve them (and we all address climate change), vast eco-devastation awaits them all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/opini ... pe=article

Reply,
Envirnomentalism!!!
Shias and Sunni are not responsible for climate change, these culprits are most advanced countries the 'G-8'. You are right there is no Shiite air or Sunni petrol/gas, or Ismaili waters. The ecosystems is destroyed by mostly western countries + China, Russia, and India. Only muslims are not responsible for climate destruction.

What is Celestial Body? Does such a thing really exist?

Ya Ali Madad:

I wish to have impartial opinion from member on surah 5:3. my earlier posting.
Does a paragraph of completation of the book and name of religion looks out of place/sync in between in very early stage of the HB It is placed between verses of expression/order of forbidden for eating swine meat.
Flow of all the verses is excellent and this verse placement raise a 'RED FLAG'.
The HB was compiled( not the content) by human being maybe with secualr education than what we members have.
So an impartial opinion is expression of realistic observation of Surah 5:3
and not conflicting ideological stand.

To: Non Ismaili S.
I have said I do not live in past and past figures n history are not that important.
It has little( maybe 20%) important to me.
One does not have know Sanskrit,Hebrew,Greek or Arabic to know past holy books.Fine and qualitative translation are available in all major speaking languages of today.
All action ,education is to for living people on earth and not dedicated to the past ( except subject of history till high school level).History is not needed for field of over 50 streams of high education like management,medical, engineering or to stand in a cage/cash counter in a gas station in USA.
Digging the dead stories can be interest to posesed person sitting all day in grave yard.
If living is everything about the dead ones,that person would be better off as non living in this living n lively world.

Digging dead stories should be a job of a cunning historian( Bathakti dukhi atma) and not necessary of an intellectual Scholar.

junglikhan4 wrote: The ecosystems is destroyed by mostly western countries + China, Russia, and India. Only muslims are not responsible for climate destruction.

What have the western countries, China, Russia and India to do with the ecosystems in the Middle East? It is about the flow and preservation of water, dealing with the heat etc instead of wasting resources in wars and conflict.

kmaherali wrote:

junglikhan4 wrote: The ecosystems is destroyed by mostly western countries + China, Russia, and India. Only muslims are not responsible for climate destruction.

What have the western countries, China, Russia and India to do with the ecosystems in the Middle East? It is about the flow and preservation of water, dealing with the heat etc instead of wasting resources in wars and conflict.

Reply,

Why to single out only Middle East! The western countries including China, Russia, and India are responsible for Ozone layer and pollution of air which is affecting the ecosystems. The melting of ice and changing of weather patterns are because of industrialized nations. Their large ships and vessels are throwing all types of garbage in deep river channels and seas. Even Industrialized nations are dumping radio active materials in seas and because of that there are plenty of under sea earth quakes and tsunamis.
No doubt clean water is essential for life and future wars will be fought on water. Today many countries are fighting on water resources. Regarding wars in Middle East , think which super power is behind it and for what?

Nuseri


I have said I do not live in past and past figures n history are not that important.
It has little( maybe 20%) important to me.
One does not have know Sanskrit,Hebrew,Greek or Arabic to know past holy books.Fine and qualitative translation are available in all major speaking languages of today.
All action ,education is to for living people on earth and not dedicated to the past ( except subject of history till high school level).History is not needed for field of over 50 streams of high education like management,medical, engineering or to stand in a cage/cash counter in a gas station in USA.
Digging the dead stories can be interest to posesed person sitting all day in grave yard.
If living is everything about the dead ones,that person would be better off as non living in this living n lively world.

Digging dead stories should be a job of a cunning historian( Bathakti dukhi atma) and not necessary of an intellectual Scholar.

To; N

Human beings learn from history to make wise decisions for future, animals can't do that. Ismailis can not afford to turn away from glorious history of their forefathers. It is through history we know about our hereditary chain of Imamat otherwise you should not have even known the name, the personality and spiritual power of Ali.
It is not the question of language but of heritage. Couple of times Imam was requested to change the text of Du'a from Arabic to English, but Imam refused and said, Du'a will stay in Arabic. In early 50's MSMS asked Ismailia Association for Pakistan that I want 50 persons/missionaries to learn Arabic and that they should be fluent in Arabic, and those persons should be utilized to create more manpower in Arabic. Association was flopped. Finally in 1976 they started Arabic classes in Karachi. By the way intellectuals learn from history and past, and first comprehend then compare, compromise and comment on complex issues.

Ya Ali Madad: NMS
I am seeing MHI . he has given atmost important to English language in Non English speaking countries.
I assume Ismailis from tradition initiated by Asiatic Pirs were shy to learn Arabic then.Few may have done that, may be.
as a matter of fact when independence of Pakistan was nearing He advised to make Arabic as national language of Pakistan.

It this would have happened by now Pakistan would be only nuclear power country of Arab league and instead of drivers ann labour working in gulf countries they would be have been ruling the management cadre and government positions.(different story altogether). It would have been ruling Arab world by remote control.like Israel now for America congress n senate.

Most important history from others, MHI has told to read n know is of Fatimid Era

I wish members( scholars. historians and time passers) to write 3- 10 points of important observation of that Era to learn or inspire from that.

nuseri wrote: Most important history from others, MHI has told to read n know is of Fatimid Era

I wish members( scholars. historians and time passers) to write 3- 10 points of important observation of that Era to learn or inspire from that.

Ya Ali Madad Nuseri,

I would like you to reflect upon the importance of histroy as per Farman below.

"During this visit I have spent some time in Karimabad to participate in the opening of the restored Fort of Baltit, or the Karimabad Fort. You may be surprised why I have come to Pakistan for the restoration of a fort. Normally, you would say Hazar Imam doesn't travel for that sort of an activity. But in My presence today and in the last few days, I want you to interpret this as meaning the importance that I attach to the history of our Jamat, to the history of its peoples, to the history of its institutions, to the histories of its culture, and I am here in Pakistan on this visit to emphasize that, as time goes by, I hope that more and more work will be done to reinvigorate our history, to reinterpret it, to take lessons and meanings from it, from the great thinkers of our past. Remember, that in Shia Islam and in the tradition of Hazrat Ali, the notion of the intellect, Aql, is an extremely important aspect of faith. But it is not knowledge for knowledge's sake. It is knowledge better to understand the creation of Allah. And therefore, My being present on this occasion, is symbolic of the importance I attach to all our history, wherever it may be, whether it is here in the Northern Areas, whether it is in Sindh, whether it is in Tajikistan, wherever the Jamat has lived, whatever have been its traditions, there is much for us to learn and draw inspiration from. Just as the Qasida that has been recited, is the reinvigoration of oral tradition which has existed in our Jamat for decades and decades and decades, and I attach enormous importance to that."(Oct 1. 1996)

Importance of History:

The current Imam and many other imams in past has also emphasized us to read "History of Islam" even History Before Islam not only Fatimid era! A good readers should not stop reading after only Fatimid era history but he will go beyond that and read History of Islam and other history too as well to better understand the condition of that time!

Quote;[ Nuseri]

Most important history from others, MHI has told to read n know is of Fatimid Era

I wish members( scholars. historians and time passers) to write 3- 10 points of important observation of that Era to learn or inspire from that.[/quote]


Reply,

To: NT

MHI said in a speech," I was born into a Muslim family, educated as a Muslim, and spent many years studying the history of the faiths and its civilizations".
Acceptance address. Tutzing Evangelical Academy. May 20,2006.

Confucius said "Thousand people, thousand religion"

What we can see on this board is exactly that. Each person has is own interpretation and variance of Islam and the word Muslim.
Wisdom lies in accepting that these words means different things to different people.

As per Ismaili perceptive speech is a speech not the farmans, it is normally address to general public so it is a gol gol bate as per the audience and events but A true Ismailis doesn't give much importance on these kind speeches but gives much important to farmans!
There are many speeches of SMS and MHI but it is not read in Jk why? Because.... It is not farmans.

Different things for different peoples.

Great!! But.. Socrates, Gandhi, Plato and,Budhha taught us that " truth always remains truth no matter what an individuals thoughts" SATYAMEV JAYTE means truth always wins.period

agakhani wrote:As per Ismaili perceptive speech is a speech not the farmans, it is normally address to general public so it is a gol gol bate as per the audience and events but A true Ismailis doesn't give much importance on these kind speeches but gives much important to farmans!

I think for worldly matters such as the importance of history, architecture, pluralism, civil societies, poverty etc, the Imams guidance or opinion is equivalent in Farmans and speeches, so the context does not really matter. However in matters of faith such as Imamat, the exposition in the Farmans and speeches/interviews/constitution can vary.

agakhani wrote:As per Ismaili perceptive speech is a speech not the farmans, it is normally address to general public so it is a gol gol bate as per the audience and events but A true Ismailis doesn't give much importance on these kind speeches but gives much important to farmans!
There are many speeches of SMS and MHI but it is not read in Jk why? Because.... It is not farmans.

Reply,

I quoted a quote from HI's speech. Did HI said any thing wrong in that speech.
Why are you so upset and upside down. I have not compared speech with any farman. I have heard few speeches of HI in JK's.

I answered your above post but Admin deleted again. Giving you one more favor! Which you didn't deserve it at all.
Recently Admin is favouring you deleting my all posts addressed specially to you Mr.Bahurupi! Some unknown reasons!

agakhani wrote:I answered your above post but Admin deleted again.... Some unknown reasons!

You have been already told the reason. Insults are not allowed. keep your posts polite and I will not delete them. Do not make it personal. Just write arguments in a civilised way. Most of the people I know do not read post containing harsh language and insults. Please, this is a polite request: go read the rules of posting. I have applied this policy to everyone equally.

If some one has to learn and understand tawheed, the best lesson is in Adam and Iblees story.In my view, Iblees was the true lover of God, that's why he refused to prostrate Adam. He said to God, " You told me that I am Rabbul Alamin, always remember me and prostrate me, now if I prostrate Adam means I am doing shirk and that is not acceptable to me, Adam is not equal to you".
Iblees wept and said to God, you are my lord, you have right to curse me for ever, you can hate me, you make me homeless in universe. This is my true love for you, in universe I see only you, I do not want comforts, only I need you. Though Iblees was cursed by God, still before departing he said to God, let me quote Quran," Qala fa bi izzatika la ughwiyannahum ajma'een". Surah Saad 82.
Meaning; (Iblees) said, By your might ( Teri Izzat Ki Qassam), I will surely mislead them all. Further Quran says," Illa ibadaka minhumul Mukhlaseen".
Translation; Except among them your chosen servants. Surah Saad 83.
( means pure Mo'mineen, Rusulikal muqarabeen wa a'imatikal mutahareen).
When Iblees is saying, 'FA BI IZZATIK'. he is addressing God, he is swearing to God and that was because of immense love for God in his heart.

DOEI RA AZ KHUD BADAR KARDUM YAKI DEEDAM DO ALAM RA
YAKI JOYAM YAKI BINAM YAKI DANIM YAKI KHWAHIM ( RUMI )