Posted: Sat May 24, 2003 8:42 pm Post subject: ANTI GINAN BOOK AMONG ISMAILIS
THIS BOOK IS NOW VERY COMMON AND THE NAME OF BOOK IS A SHORT HISTORY OF ISMAILIS .AUTHOR IS FARHAD DAFTARY,A NON ISMALI AND HE IS HEAD OF THE DEPARTMENT OF ACADEMIC RESEARCH AND PUBLICATIONS AT THE INSTITUTE OF ISMALIS STUDIES LONDON.THERE ARE MANY HSTORICAL MISTAKES TOO.I HAVE JUST READ FEW PAGES FROM THIS BOOK ANF FOUND LOT OF MISTAKES.IF YOU WILL READ YOU WILL FIND THE FACT THAT AUTHOR IS TRYING TO MAKE ISMAILIS BELIEVE THAT GINANS ARE WRONG
1) ON PG 177 IT IS WRITTEN THAT GINANS WERE TRANSMITTED ORALLY FOR SEVERAL CENTURIES BEFORE THEY WERE RECORDED.ACCORDING TO NOOR-E-MUBIN [THE BEST HISTORY BOOK OF ISMAILI EVER WRITTEN]GARBIS OF PIR SHAMS WERE RECORDED BY PANDITS
2)PG 178 1 PARAGRAPH SECOND LINE ......DAIS WERE CALLED PIR IN SUBCONTINENT .
THERE IS DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DAIS AND PIR.HAZIR IMAM IS ALSO PIR BUT NOT A DAI SIMILARLY SYED IMAM SHAH WAS DAI NOT PIR.
3) IT IS ALSO WRITTEN ON THE SAME PAGE THAT GINANS ARE UNRELIABLE
Last edited by star_munir on Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total
Posted: Sat May 24, 2003 9:01 pm Post subject: CONTINUE
IN KARACHI ONCE IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH ASKED THE LEADERS THAT IF IF I AM GIVING DIDAR AND GINAN IS RECITED AT SAME TIME THAN TOWARDS WHOM JAMAT MUST PAY ATTENTION?LEADERS SAID TOWRDS YOU.IMAM SAID JAB TAK GINAN BOLA JA RAHA HO JAMAT KO CHAHIYE KEY GINAN MAI DHIAN RAKHAI KIYU KEY GINAN KEY ZARIYEY TUM KO HAMARI SHANKHT MILI HAI.
THIS IS THE IMPORTANCE OF GINAN AND THERE ARE MANY FARMANS OF IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH AND HAZIR IMAM ABOUT IMPORTANCE OF GINANS BUT THE AUTHOR SAID THAT GINANS ARE NOT RELIABLE.
4) WORDS LIKE MYTHOLOGY AND LEGENDARY ARE USED FOR GINANS WHICH MEANS STORY OF IMAGINARY PEOPLE WHICH IS IMPROPER AND WRONG
5) ANOTHER ANTI ISMAILI LINE ON PAGE 178 LAST PARAGRAPH PIR SHAMS IS AN AN OBSCURE MISSIONARY CLOUDED IN NUMEROUS LEGENDS.
MY QUSTION IS ARE THE MIRACLES JUST THE FALSE STORY?IF YOU BELIVE SO THAN IT MEANS YOU HAVE NO FAITH .HAZIR IMAM ALSO PERFORMS MIRACLE SO MIRACLES ARE NOT FALSE STORIES BUT THE TRUTH
Last edited by star_munir on Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total
Posted: Sat May 24, 2003 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: ANTI GINAN BOOK AMONG ISMAILIS
star_munir wrote:
THIS BOOK IS NOW VERY COMMON AND THE NAME OF BOOK IS A SHORT HISTORY OF ISMAILIS .AUTHOR IS FARHAD DAFTARY,A NON ISMALI AND HE IS HEAD OF THE DEPARTMENT OF ACADEMIS RESEARCH AND PUBLICATIONS AT THE INSTITUTE OF ISMALIS STUDIES LONDON.THERE ARE MANY HSTORICAL MISTAKES TOO.I HAVE JUST RED FEW PAGES FROM THIS BOOK ANF FOUND LOT OF MISTAKES.IF YOU WILL READ YOU WILL FIND THE FACT THAT AUTHOR IS TRYING TO MAKE ISMAILIS BELIEVE THAT GINANS ARE WRONG.i AM WRITIN ONLY FEW POINTS HERE NOW AND WILL WRITE OTHER TOMMOROW OR LATER
1 ON PG 177 IT IS WRITTEN THAT GINANS WERE TRANSMITTED ORALLY FOR SEVERAL CENTURIES BEFORE THEY WERE RECORDED.ACCORDING TO NOOR-E-MUBIN [THE BEST HISTORY BOOK OF ISMAILI EVER WRITTEN]GARBIS OF PIR SHAMS WERE RECORDED BY PANDITS
2PG 178 1 PARAGRAPH SECOND LINE ......DAIS WERE CALLED PIR IN SUBCONTINENT .
THERE IS DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DAIS AND PIR.HAZIR IMAM IS ALSO PIR BUT NOT A DAI SIMILARLY SYED IMAM SHAH WAS DAI NOT PIR.
3 IT IS ALSO WRITTEN ON THE SAME PAGE THAT GINANS ARE UNRELIABLE
You mention:
THIS BOOK IS NOW VERY COMMON AND THE NAME OF BOOK IS A SHORT HISTORY OF ISMAILIS .AUTHOR IS FARHAD DAFTARY,A NON ISMALI AND HE IS HEAD OF THE DEPARTMENT OF ACADEMIS RESEARCH AND PUBLICATIONS AT THE INSTITUTE OF ISMALIS STUDIES LONDON.
Sultan Mohd Shah mentioned that if you want to learn about your faith learn from an ismaili only - so noore mubin prevails, more so, since sultan mohd shah recommended noore mubin.
From history you can research and learn many things. It is also to be noted mawlana hazar imam farman is that perfection is allah's only there is no human perfection. So do not seek perfection from humans. BYE BYE for now.
THIS BOOK IS ALTHOUGH PUBLISHED BY A NON ISMAILI BUT IN JAMATKHANA ANOUNCEMENT WAS MADE ABOUT THIS BOOK AND THE NOOR-E-MOBIN IS NOT AVAILABLE ALTHOUGH THERE IS FARMAN OF IMAM SULTAN MOHAMMAD SHAH TO READ THIS BOOK AND THS ANTI ISMAILI BOOK PUBLISHED BY OUR OWN INSTITUTION WHICH IS FULL OF MISTAKES IS AVAILABLE.
NOW I AM POINTING OUT SOME OTHER BIG MISTAKES AND WRONG CONCEPTS GIVEN IN THIS BOOK
AUTHOR IS TRYING HIS BEST TO MISLEAD IGNORANT ISMAILIS BY GIVING STATEMENTS SUCH AS ON PG 178 HE WRITES ABOUT PIR SHAMS THAT IN SOME OF THE MANY GINANS OF HIM QASM SHAH IS NAMED AS HS CONTEMPORARY IMAM ...... IN OTHER GINANS ACTIVITIES OF PIR SHAMS ARE PLACED SOME TWO CENTURIES EARLI
ER.
PIR SHAMS WAS PIR AT THE TIME OF IMAM QASIM SHAH ACCORDING TO ALL HIS GINANS AND NOOR-E-MUBIN.AUTHOR S MISLEADING
A BIG HISTORICAL MISTAKE ON PAGE 178 LAST PARAGRAPH
PIR SHAMS HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS SHAMS TABRIZ
PIR SHAMS AND SHAMS TABRIZ ARE DIFFERENT. PIR SHAMS WAS BORN IN SABZWAR WHILE SHAMS TABRIZ WAS BORN IN TABRIZ.PIR SHAMS WAS PIR AND SHAMS TABRIZ WAS NOT PIR.THERE ARE GINANS OF PIR SHAMS WHILE THERE ARE QASIDAS OF SHAMS TABRIZ.
ANOTHER STATEMENT AGAINST OUR RELIGION AND PIRS ON PAGE NUMBER 179 FIRST PARAGRAPH PIR SADARDIN ..... HAD ESTABLISHED A HEREDITARY DYNASTY WITHOUT REGULAR CONTACTS WITH NIZARI IMAM
ON PAGE 179 IT S WRITTEN THAT SHRINE OF PIR SADARDIN S LOCATED NEAR UCCH WHILE IN RELIGIOUS CENTER BOOK IT IS WRTTEN THAT T IS 17 KILOMETER FAR FROM ALLAHABAD
ON PAGE 179 SECOND PARAGRAPH IT IS WRITTEN THAT FIRST JAMAT KHANA WAS MADE BY PIR SADARDIN.IT IS WRONG PIR SHAMS MADE 84 JAMAT KHANAS
Posted: Sun May 25, 2003 6:33 pm Post subject: CONTINUE
ON PAGE NUMBER 179 LAST PARAGRAPH IT IS WRITTEN ABOUT PIR HASAN KABIR DIN THAT HE TOO TRAVELLED WIDELY AND REPORTEDLY VISITED HIS CONTEMPORARY IMAM ,MUSTANSIRBILLAH.
PIR HASAN KABIRDIN WAS AT THE TIME OF IMAM ISLAM SHAH.
ON PAGE 180 IT IS WRITTEN THAT THAT GINAN BUJH NIRINJAN IS NOT A GINAN BUT A POEM MADE BY A SUFI.LATER KHOJAS ATTRIBUTED IT TO PIR SADARDIN.
NOW I AM ASKING WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF A IGNORANT ISMALI READ THIS BOOK?WHAT WILL HE THINK ABOUT GINANS. MORE ON PAGE 180 IT IS WRITTEN THAT AFTER PIR HASAN KABIRDIN IMAMS MADE SYSTEMATIC EFFORTS TO CONTROL THE HEREDITARY AUTHORITY OF PIR.AGAIN FALSE STATEMENT ON PAGE 182 NIZARI IMAMS HAD EVIDENTLY APPOINTED 1 MORE PIR ... NAMED DADU[IT MUST BE NOTED THAT HE WAS NOT PIR BUT A SYED OR WAKEEL]AUTHOR WRITES THAT DADU WHOSE NAME DOES NOT APPEAR IN THE LATER LIST OF PIRS OR POSSIBLY TAJDIN LINE OF PIRS DEFINATELY CAME TO AN END. AUTHOR DONT KNOWS THAT LINE OF PIRS NEVER COME TO AN END.
SIMILARLY PERSIAN AND ARABIC WAS NOT USED BY EDUCATED CLASSES IN INDIA AS MENTIONED BY THE AUTHOR ON PAGE NUMBER 183
I HAVE JUST READ SOME PAGES AND FIND THESE MISTAKES .THERE MAY BE MORE TOO.
NOW SOME QUESTIONS
IS IT NOT PUBLISHED BY ISMAILI INSTITUTION?
WHO IS PROMOTING THE BOOK?TARIQA BOARD
TARIQA BOARD CAN BAN FARMANS GINANS WORDS OF OUR PIR AND IMAM CAN NOT IT BAN THIS BOOK?INSPITE ANNOUNCEMENT IN JAMATKHANA WAS MADE.NOOREMUBIN IS BANNED BUT NOT THIS WHY IS IT NOT AGAINST OUR RELIGION AND IS FULL OF HISTORCAL MISTAKES?THIS BOOK MUST BE IMMEDIATELY BAN.
Posted: Sun May 25, 2003 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: CONTINUE
star_munir wrote:
ON PAGE NUMBER 179 LAST PARAGRAPH IT IS WRITTEN ABOUT PIR HASAN KABIR DIN THAT HE TOO TRAVELLED WIDELY AND REPORTEDLY VISITED HIS CONTEMPORARY IMAM ,MUSTANSIRBILLAH.
PIR HASAN KABIRDIN WAS AT THE TIME OF IMAM ISLAM SHAH.
ON PAGE 180 IT IS WRITTEN THAT THAT GINAN BUJH NIRINJAN IS NOT A GINAN BUT A POEM MADE BY A SUFI.LATER KHOJAS ATTRIBUTED IT TO PIR SADARDIN.
NOW I AM ASKING WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF A IGNORANT ISMALI READ THIS BOOK?WHAT WILL HE THINK ABOUT GINANS. MORE ON PAGE 180 IT IS WRITTEN THAT AFTER PIR HASAN KABIRDIN IMAMS MADE SYSTEMATIC EFFORTS TO CONTROL THE HEREDITARY AUTHORITY OF PIR.AGAIN FALSE STATEMENT ON PAGE 182 NIZARI IMAMS HAD EVIDENTLY APPOINTED 1 MORE PIR ... NAMED DADU[IT MUST BE NOTED THAT HE WAS NOT PIR BUT A SYED OR WAKEEL]AUTHOR WRITES THAT DADU WHOSE NAME DOES NOT APPEAR IN THE LATER LIST OF PIRS OR POSSIBLY TAJDIN LINE OF PIRS DEFINATELY CAME TO AN END. AUTHOR DONT KNOWS THAT LINE OF PIRS NEVER COME TO AN END.
SIMILARLY PERSIAN AND ARABIC WAS NOT USED BY EDUCATED CLASSES IN INDIA AS MENTIONED BY THE AUTHOR ON PAGE NUMBER 183
I HAVE JUST READ SOME PAGES AND FIND THESE MISTAKES .THERE MAY BE MORE TOO.
NOW SOME QUESTIONS
IS IT NOT PUBLISHED BY ISMAILI INSTITUTION?
WHO IS PROMOTING THE BOOK?TARIQA BOARD
TARIQA BOARD CAN BAN FARMANS GINANS WORDS OF OUR PIR AND IMAM CAN NOT IT BAN THIS BOOK?INSPITE ANNOUNCEMENT IN JAMATKHANA WAS MADE.NOOREMUBIN IS BANNED BUT NOT THIS WHY IS IT NOT AGAINST OUR RELIGION AND IS FULL OF HISTORCAL MISTAKES?THIS BOOK MUST BE IMMEDIATELY BAN.
Ya Aly Madad,
One thing, Persian was the legal language at the time of the Moghuls.
I think all other things you mention are right. I have had IIS graduates say that the authorship of Kalame Mowla is uncertain and similiar things about the Ginans. I think I now know why.
Posted: Mon May 26, 2003 12:09 am Post subject: Re: CONTINUE
shamsu wrote:
star_munir wrote:
ON PAGE NUMBER 179 LAST PARAGRAPH IT IS WRITTEN ABOUT PIR HASAN KABIR DIN THAT HE TOO TRAVELLED WIDELY AND REPORTEDLY VISITED HIS CONTEMPORARY IMAM ,MUSTANSIRBILLAH.
PIR HASAN KABIRDIN WAS AT THE TIME OF IMAM ISLAM SHAH.
ON PAGE 180 IT IS WRITTEN THAT THAT GINAN BUJH NIRINJAN IS NOT A GINAN BUT A POEM MADE BY A SUFI.LATER KHOJAS ATTRIBUTED IT TO PIR SADARDIN.
NOW I AM ASKING WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF A IGNORANT ISMALI READ THIS BOOK?WHAT WILL HE THINK ABOUT GINANS. MORE ON PAGE 180 IT IS WRITTEN THAT AFTER PIR HASAN KABIRDIN IMAMS MADE SYSTEMATIC EFFORTS TO CONTROL THE HEREDITARY AUTHORITY OF PIR.AGAIN FALSE STATEMENT ON PAGE 182 NIZARI IMAMS HAD EVIDENTLY APPOINTED 1 MORE PIR ... NAMED DADU[IT MUST BE NOTED THAT HE WAS NOT PIR BUT A SYED OR WAKEEL]AUTHOR WRITES THAT DADU WHOSE NAME DOES NOT APPEAR IN THE LATER LIST OF PIRS OR POSSIBLY TAJDIN LINE OF PIRS DEFINATELY CAME TO AN END. AUTHOR DONT KNOWS THAT LINE OF PIRS NEVER COME TO AN END.
SIMILARLY PERSIAN AND ARABIC WAS NOT USED BY EDUCATED CLASSES IN INDIA AS MENTIONED BY THE AUTHOR ON PAGE NUMBER 183
I HAVE JUST READ SOME PAGES AND FIND THESE MISTAKES .THERE MAY BE MORE TOO.
NOW SOME QUESTIONS
IS IT NOT PUBLISHED BY ISMAILI INSTITUTION?
WHO IS PROMOTING THE BOOK?TARIQA BOARD
TARIQA BOARD CAN BAN FARMANS GINANS WORDS OF OUR PIR AND IMAM CAN NOT IT BAN THIS BOOK?INSPITE ANNOUNCEMENT IN JAMATKHANA WAS MADE.NOOREMUBIN IS BANNED BUT NOT THIS WHY IS IT NOT AGAINST OUR RELIGION AND IS FULL OF HISTORCAL MISTAKES?THIS BOOK MUST BE IMMEDIATELY BAN.
Ya Aly Madad,
One thing, Persian was the legal language at the time of the Moghuls.
I think all other things you mention are right. I have had IIS graduates say that the authorship of Kalame Mowla is uncertain and similiar things about the Ginans. I think I now know why.
Ya Aly Madad,
Shams.
Re: Kalame Mowla is uncertain
If this was so sultan mohd shah would have said saw. OK.
The same regarding Ginans.
However, what can i say to the things you invent -
the things you invent you term as farmans, the ginan - you translate aql - breathing, open eyes-blind, you even got adam and 50000 and what not.
Posted: Mon May 26, 2003 6:50 am Post subject: Re: CONTINUE
roxy wrote:
shamsu wrote:
star_munir wrote:
ON PAGE NUMBER 179 LAST PARAGRAPH IT IS WRITTEN ABOUT PIR HASAN KABIR DIN THAT HE TOO TRAVELLED WIDELY AND REPORTEDLY VISITED HIS CONTEMPORARY IMAM ,MUSTANSIRBILLAH.
PIR HASAN KABIRDIN WAS AT THE TIME OF IMAM ISLAM SHAH.
ON PAGE 180 IT IS WRITTEN THAT THAT GINAN BUJH NIRINJAN IS NOT A GINAN BUT A POEM MADE BY A SUFI.LATER KHOJAS ATTRIBUTED IT TO PIR SADARDIN.
NOW I AM ASKING WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF A IGNORANT ISMALI READ THIS BOOK?WHAT WILL HE THINK ABOUT GINANS. MORE ON PAGE 180 IT IS WRITTEN THAT AFTER PIR HASAN KABIRDIN IMAMS MADE SYSTEMATIC EFFORTS TO CONTROL THE HEREDITARY AUTHORITY OF PIR.AGAIN FALSE STATEMENT ON PAGE 182 NIZARI IMAMS HAD EVIDENTLY APPOINTED 1 MORE PIR ... NAMED DADU[IT MUST BE NOTED THAT HE WAS NOT PIR BUT A SYED OR WAKEEL]AUTHOR WRITES THAT DADU WHOSE NAME DOES NOT APPEAR IN THE LATER LIST OF PIRS OR POSSIBLY TAJDIN LINE OF PIRS DEFINATELY CAME TO AN END. AUTHOR DONT KNOWS THAT LINE OF PIRS NEVER COME TO AN END.
SIMILARLY PERSIAN AND ARABIC WAS NOT USED BY EDUCATED CLASSES IN INDIA AS MENTIONED BY THE AUTHOR ON PAGE NUMBER 183
I HAVE JUST READ SOME PAGES AND FIND THESE MISTAKES .THERE MAY BE MORE TOO.
NOW SOME QUESTIONS
IS IT NOT PUBLISHED BY ISMAILI INSTITUTION?
WHO IS PROMOTING THE BOOK?TARIQA BOARD
TARIQA BOARD CAN BAN FARMANS GINANS WORDS OF OUR PIR AND IMAM CAN NOT IT BAN THIS BOOK?INSPITE ANNOUNCEMENT IN JAMATKHANA WAS MADE.NOOREMUBIN IS BANNED BUT NOT THIS WHY IS IT NOT AGAINST OUR RELIGION AND IS FULL OF HISTORCAL MISTAKES?THIS BOOK MUST BE IMMEDIATELY BAN.
Ya Aly Madad,
One thing, Persian was the legal language at the time of the Moghuls.
I think all other things you mention are right. I have had IIS graduates say that the authorship of Kalame Mowla is uncertain and similiar things about the Ginans. I think I now know why.
Ya Aly Madad,
Shams.
Re: Kalame Mowla is uncertain
If this was so sultan mohd shah would have said saw. OK.
The same regarding Ginans.
However, what can i say to the things you invent -
the things you invent you term as farmans, the ginan - you translate aql - breathing, open eyes-blind, you even got adam and 50000 and what not.
Dear Roxy,
Ya Aly Madad,
I missed you for the few days I was without a computer.
Reading your posts, brings a grin to my face.
I have no doubt in my mind that you are a true aashiq of the Imam of the time.
What makes me grin is the wideness of spectrum, mowla's aashiqs cover on this planet.
It gives me immense pleasure to interact with mowlas aashiqs on these forum boards. I couldn't be luckier and couldn't thank Mowla enough for this priviledge.
Nothing can dilute that pleasure.
If it comes from Mowla's aashiq, a shule(spear) feels like a fuul(flower).
Thank you so much,
May Mowla keep you Immersed in his Noor Eternally.
Posted: Mon May 26, 2003 7:59 am Post subject: Buj Niranjan
Ya Aly Madad star_munir,
your post stated
Quote:
ON PAGE 180 IT IS WRITTEN THAT THAT GINAN BUJH NIRINJAN IS NOT A GINAN BUT A POEM MADE BY A SUFI.LATER KHOJAS ATTRIBUTED IT TO PIR SADARDIN
Anyone who is familiar with Pir Sadardeen (salwat) and his ginans can easily discern the truth.
It appears as if Farhad Daftary has taken all the rumours he found about Ismailies and has given them a pseudo legitimacy in his inaccurate book.
A non Ismaili writing a book about Ismailies is like a Plumber writing a book about Architecture.
Check out the Buj Niranjan pat here and recognize for your self that it is indeed Pir Sadardeen who wrote it.
PART EIGHT
jo pa(n)dit or seedh kahaave
chatur sujaann sughadd hoee aave..................................1
If a person regards himself as a scholar and a righteous one, and approaches you as an intelligent all knowing and pure personality
jap tap karee sab janam gamaave
bin gur maarag prem na paave......................................2
... and spends his/her entire life in meditation and abstinence, even then without the Guide(Murshid Kameel) he does not attain the station of love.
jo cheree gur mayaa na paave
dhyaan gyaan kuchh kaam na aave...................................3
If one does not attain the grace of the Guide, his/her concentration and knowledge is useless.
ddhu(n)ddhat doddat janam gamaave
bin gura mayaa na maarag paave....................................4
If one spends his/her entire life seeking and running around, even then without the grace of the Guide, no station is attained.
jo tu(n) laakh tabeeb bulaave
bin guru vednaa na jaave..........................................5
Even if you called upon one hundred thousand physicians, your pain will not go away without the grace of the Guide.
vednaa jaave jo guru chit (l)aavere
dukh khove sab sukh upajaave......................................6
Your pain will go away if the object of your attention is the Guide, sorrow is lost and all peace is attained.
jo(je) gurthee jo vednaa jaave
so gur saachaa peer kahaave.......................................7
The guide through whom pain leaves, is indeed the guide who is regarded as the true Peer.
re tu(n)hee ...
baddaa gur male peeddku(n)
daaru deve chhaar re;
bin gur peeddaa jaave nahee(n)
aayaa vedakaa saar re.......................................VIII
O you, ... If you attain such an exalted guide to take away the pain, he will give you the appropriate medicine. Without the Guide, the pain does not go away for He is indeed the essence of all the scriptures.
I don't know any sufi who would give this much importance to the SatGuru
(Rumi comes close, but that's it, in my opinion.)
I have purchased almost all the IIS publications, but for years my heart will not allow me to buy or read any book written by Farhad Daftary.
To this day I can not and will not buy or read a book written by Farhad Daftary.
Back home in India we used to have a saying about Donkeys and Saffron which may be applicable here.
In my Opinion,
Farhad Daftary cannot ever understand what Ismailies feel about the Imam of the Time, well not until he comes under the protection of Mowla's Baiyat.
May Mowla bless him with Shanakhat of Haqiqat in this lifetime.
THIS BOOK IS NOW VERY COMMON AND THE NAME OF BOOK IS A SHORT HISTORY OF ISMAILIS .AUTHOR IS FARHAD DAFTARY,A NON ISMALI AND HE IS HEAD OF THE DEPARTMENT OF ACADEMIS RESEARCH AND PUBLICATIONS AT THE INSTITUTE OF ISMALIS STUDIES LONDON.
He should have named the Book "SHORT CIRCUITING THE HISTORY OF ISMAILIES"
Posted: Mon May 26, 2003 8:18 am Post subject: DADU
I think DADU was actually a Mukhi at that time and you know that Mukhi represents the Imam. I wonder if that is where the misunderstanding occured.
If the name of the Pir is not stated in the old dua then I don't think that is an appointed Pir.
Now Mowla Bapa has given that title to Varas Ismail Gangji and Itmadi Subzali.
There are multiple places Farhad Daftary could have been mistaken, but it is interesting how the unbelieving mind gravitated towards the most damaging point of view.
Posted: Mon May 26, 2003 8:40 am Post subject: Ginans were recorded.
Quote:
ON PG 177 IT IS WRITTEN THAT GINANS WERE TRANSMITTED ORALLY FOR SEVERAL CENTURIES BEFORE THEY WERE RECORDED.ACCORDING TO NOOR-E-MUBIN [THE BEST HISTORY BOOK OF ISMAILI EVER WRITTEN]GARBIS OF PIR SHAMS WERE RECORDED BY PANDITS
This is very interesting, we should all know that Pir Sadardeen made a living by reproducing The Quran as his penmanship was excellent.
It goes against reason that Ismailies would not record the ginans when their Pirs were the elite of the elite, where education and knowledge is concerned and had access to writing materials.
The truth is that Ismailies of the time made it a point to memorize every single part of every single Ginan they came in touch with due to their love for the Imam.
Alas, Farhad Daftary couldn't understand that and with his horse goggles could not see that love and reported it as verbal transmission of the Ginans.
Some facts come to mind about this.
1]"Donga to ane ane hare vase, Te to lootae sahebji nu dhyan re, Moman mann em jaan jo ji"
2]We know that Abubaker, Umer and Usman were very close to Rasulillah(salwat) and what they did later on is crystal clear to every Shia Muslim.
3]There is a reason for the ginans to say "Doorthi laagjo pai".
4]and for Pir Sadardeen(salwat) to say "ek fikr munivar tamari cche amne, ,manas rupe saheb jaano ji"
Posted: Mon May 26, 2003 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Ginans were recorded.
shamsu wrote:
Quote:
ON PG 177 IT IS WRITTEN THAT GINANS WERE TRANSMITTED ORALLY FOR SEVERAL CENTURIES BEFORE THEY WERE RECORDED.ACCORDING TO NOOR-E-MUBIN [THE BEST HISTORY BOOK OF ISMAILI EVER WRITTEN]GARBIS OF PIR SHAMS WERE RECORDED BY PANDITS
This is very interesting, we should all know that Pir Sadardeen made a living by reproducing The Quran as his penmanship was excellent.
It goes against reason that Ismailies would not record the ginans when their Pirs were the elite of the elite, where education and knowledge is concerned and had access to writing materials.
The truth is that Ismailies of the time made it a point to memorize every single part of every single Ginan they came in touch with due to their love for the Imam.
Alas, Farhad Daftary couldn't understand that and with his horse goggles could not see that love and reported it as verbal transmission of the Ginans.
Some facts come to mind about this.
1]"Donga to ane ane hare vase, Te to lootae sahebji nu dhyan re, Moman mann em jaan jo ji"
2]We know that Abubaker, Umer and Usman were very close to Rasulillah(salwat) and what they did later on is crystal clear to every Shia Muslim.
3]There is a reason for the ginans to say "Doorthi laagjo pai".
4]and for Pir Sadardeen(salwat) to say "ek fikr munivar tamari cche amne, ,manas rupe saheb jaano ji"
Why would anyone try to transmit ginans orally when there were books which were written by pirs available? It does not make sense you know. To mention orally one should memorise and to memorise one has to refer to the books. The question of transmitting the ginans orally does not arise because the other person will not be able grasp things in oral form at one sitting or two sittings or three sittings and go on remembering it because human nature is such that these things are just not possible. If it were so then god would not have sent his messages in the form of books. In view of this the question of imam allowing ginans to be conveyed is such a manner only does not arise when the imam himself in the ismaili constitution mentions "undertake the publication of books and materials on relevant aspects of Islam and the Ismaili Tariqah;"
If soneone writes something and if that somethings goes against the farmans of mawlana hazar imam then the farmans are right and others are wrong. So it is necessary that ismailis refer to the farmans.
So if someone says "This is very interesting, we should all know that Pir Sadardeen made a living by reproducing The Quran as his penmanship was excellent." and if these things are not reflected in the farmans or in the ginans then this someone is wrong.
Posted: Mon May 26, 2003 8:16 pm Post subject: roxy roxy roxy roxy roxy roxy roxy roxy.
Study the life of Pir Sadardeen and you tell me how did he do "2 kallaak(hours) duniyano kaamkaj" as stated by Imam SMS in KIM.
Mowla has stated in Farman that Pir Sadardeen sat in Ibadat 16 hrs a day, discussed Ilm and Ginan 4 hr a day, slept 2 hrs and worked for 2 hrs.
You have the material, go through it and tell me the details. You will learn so much in the process
Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 4:44 am Post subject: Re: roxy roxy roxy roxy roxy roxy roxy roxy.
shamsu wrote:
Study the life of Pir Sadardeen and you tell me how did he do "2 kallaak(hours) duniyano kaamkaj" as stated by Imam SMS in KIM.
Mowla has stated in Farman that Pir Sadardeen sat in Ibadat 16 hrs a day, discussed Ilm and Ginan 4 hr a day, slept 2 hrs and worked for 2 hrs.
You have the material, go through it and tell me the details. You will learn so much in the process
Ref. No. of the farman is required - I hardly get the time to go through all this - in fact I have been trying to discontinue because my work is suffering. To remember mawlana hazar imam does not mean one cannot remember mawlana hazar imam while working. The farman with proper reference please.
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