www.ismaili.net

YAM
Salam

I have a few questions that I hope someone will find interest in talking over with me. Given the nature of these questions it might be best to carry this conversation into private messaging. However, it might also be best to leave it in the open as a source of knowledge and food for thought. I am unsure what would be best, I'm conflicted, so I will leave the better judgment up to you.

1. Is MHI god?

My answer is yes. In the way that God is the terrestrial environment supporting and sustaining your existence, that is being your authority, so too is MHI your support and sustenance, your authority and thus your god. The same can be said for the Holy Prophet.

2. Can MHI succumb to mental illness, so much so that MHI ends up undoubtedly contradicting the principles of Islam?

I cannot give my answer to this because I feel it is not appropriate on a public forum. If this interests you please send me a private message. I will not openly address this further.

3. Is it possible for MHI to be an imposter?

My answers is no, it is not possible, even if MHI were to commit a grievous offense.

These questions are perhaps enough to make for lengthy conversation. I have many more questions but for now these will suffice. I'll be looking forward to your replies.

Since you have answered 1st and 3rd question which in my opinion true so let me answer the 2nd question of yours!

2. Can MHI succumb to mental illness, so much so that MHI ends up undoubtedly contradicting the principles of Islam?

The history of Ismaili Imams shows that so far none of any imam has succumb to mental illness! even in their difficult times, this time is more than 1400 years so there is a solid reason to believes that in future any ismaili imam will not succumb in mental illness.

Being that mental illness is a personal issue it would not be a topic of conversation if indeed MHI suffered from it, unless MHI speaks openly about it. There are other things that should not be talked about, if you can think of them, because it is highly disrespectful and mental illness is no different. That being said, historical record would most likely not include any reference to mental inefficiency or illness for the same reason. And so it remains a personal conviction whether or not the line of imams suffered from any mental illnesses.

I think it is important to note that mental illness is a modern understanding and would be little understood in centuries past. So if mental illness were physically present among any preceding imam it would most surely have been kept within a small circle of the imam’s close companions. I say this because it seems like the most practical outcome if such would arise, for I would do just that. Think of what ammunition it would have given the Sunni establishment during the Fatimid and Alamut eras if an imam was revealed to have mental instability, they would have labeled him possessed.

Mental illness is never a negative thing because everything is from God, and we should have gratitude for whatever is given to us. For example, I am told that I suffer from a mental illness and yet it is the reason I've come to fall in love with this faith. It is by means of contrast that glory is seen and guidance is heard, and I believe the same is true for an imam. I just can't wrap my head around the imams having a supernatural immunity to mental illness when they do not have immunity to physical deformities (birth defects).

Listener wrote:1. Is MHI god?

My answer is yes. In the way that God is the terrestrial environment supporting and sustaining your existence, that is being your authority, so too is MHI your support and sustenance, your authority and thus your god. The same can be said for the Holy Prophet.

I think you have answered your question. There is further discussion at:
Imam
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 36&start=0

Listener wrote: 2. Can MHI succumb to mental illness, so much so that MHI ends up undoubtedly contradicting the principles of Islam?

In the material plane the Imams go through the same kind of tribulations as the rest of us. Hence they will go through physical and mental illnesses like all of us. However these illnesses will not effect their judgement or their ability to perform their essential role. Our 48th Imam MSMS became the Imam when he was only 8 years old. This can be considered as 'impaired'. However even at that age he performed all his duties as the Imam including making profound Farmans.

kmaherali wrote:

Listener wrote:1. Is MHI god?

My answer is yes. In the way that God is the terrestrial environment supporting and sustaining your existence, that is being your authority, so too is MHI your support and sustenance, your authority and thus your god. The same can be said for the Holy Prophet.

I think you have answered your question. There is further discussion at:
Imam
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 36&start=0

Listener wrote: 2. Can MHI succumb to mental illness, so much so that MHI ends up undoubtedly contradicting the principles of Islam?

In the material plane the Imams go through the same kind of tribulations as the rest of us. Hence they will go through physical and mental illnesses like all of us. However these illnesses will not effect their judgement or their ability to perform their essential role. Our 48th Imam MSMS became the Imam when he was only 8 years old. This can be considered as 'impaired'. However even at that age he performed all his duties as the Imam including making profound Farmans.

MHI God?

Astaghfirrullah

Sura 59: 22-24



Bismillaah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem
Hu wallahu ladhila illaha illa hu
alim al ghaib wa shahadati
Hu ar rahman ar rahim
Huwallahu ladhila illaha illa hu
al malik ul quddus as salaam
ul mutmin ul muhaiymin al aziz
ul jabbar ut mutakabbir
Subhanallah hi amma yusrikun
Hu wallahu al khaliq ul bari ul mussawir
La hul asma ul husna
yusabuhu lahuma fi semaawaati wal ard
wa huwal aziz al hakim

Saddaqallah hul Azim

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
Allah is He, other than Whom there is no other god;
Who knows both what is hidden and what can be witnessed;
He is the Most Compassionate and Merciful.

Allah is He, other than Whom there is no other god;
the Sovereign, the One, the Source of Peace,
the Guardian of Faith, the Preserver of Security,
the Exalted, the Compelling, the Supreme.
Glory be to God, beyond any associations.
He is Allah, the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Form.
To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names:
Whatever exists in heaven and earth declares His Praise and Glory.
And He is Exalted in Power, the Wise.

A person just randomly comes on this forum and says he wants to become an ismaili 1st and then talks about his dream of how he met a 20 year old MHI and felt like he is about to pass away.

Then he calls imam = allah[swt]....can't you guys see whats going on ???

For 9 months this guy aka "LISTENER" said he is visiting this forum to learn more about ismailism....9 mahine se so raha bhai tu ???

You could have approached ismaili tariqah and religious board to get more info about our faith. You don't even know about our faith and you call our imam = allah[swt] ....so what now ???....What do you expect from us ???....A COOKIE ???

These people are not learned people nor do they have a right to do a kriya called "bayah/ bayyat" .....Instead of wasting your time here go visit a nearest jamatkhana near you.

shiraz.virani wrote:A person just randomly comes on this forum and says he wants to become an ismaili 1st and then talks about his dream of how he met a 20 year old MHI and felt like he is about to pass away.

Then he calls imam = allah[swt]....can't you guys see whats going on ???

For 9 months this guy aka "LISTENER" said he is visiting this forum to learn more about ismailism....9 mahine se so raha bhai tu ???

You could have approached ismaili tariqah and religious board to get more info about our faith. You don't even know about our faith and you call our imam = allah[swt] ....so what now ???....What do you expect from us ???....A COOKIE ???

These people are not learned people nor do they have a right to do a kriya called "bayah/ bayyat" .....Instead of wasting your time here go visit a nearest jamatkhana near you.

I think I got the gist of what you are saying and it feels like you just spit in my face—disrespectful.

To be clear I have not visited a jamatkhana since I am currently rural but I am waiting to hear back from ITREB after submitting a letter of intent. I am not looking for anything but to discuss the faith and perhaps come across information which changes my view on it all. I am looking to talk religion with people who feel similarly about it. I firmly believe MHI is god, not God, and you can't imagine how lonely it is spiritually to have no connection with others who believe alike. Mainstream Muslims just can't grasp how I feel about the religion, so it's nice to share thoughts with those who can (not that they'd agree).

Please explain what you mean by "These people are not learned people nor do they have a right to do a kriya called "bayah/ bayyat...."

zznoor wrote: MHI God?

Astaghfirrullah

Sura 59: 22-24

“Those who disbelieve and bar the way to God (Aga Khan/A'immah) – He shall cause their works to founder.
But those who believe and do righteous deeds and believe in what was sent down on Muhammad, which is the Truth from their Lord, those – He shall expiate their sins, and set their affairs in order. [47:2]

That is because those who disbelieved followed falsehood, while those who believed followed the Truth from their Lord. Thus does God strike to mankind their parables.”

I'd say if this English translation were the Holy Prophet's original then he'd be telling us he is God in the flesh—god.

zznoor wrote:MHI God?

Astaghfirrullah

Sura 59: 22-24

The Holy Qur'an is open to all kinds of interpretations. I respect your interpretation. The Qur'an also states:

"O ye people, verily Proof has come to you from your Lord and we have sent you manifest Light." (4: 174,175)

Our 48th Imam has stated in his Memoirs:

"The Shias have therefore always held that after the Prophet's death, Divine power, guidance and leadership manifested themselves in Hazrat Ali as the first Imam or spiritual chief of the devout."

So let us agree to disgaree and move on.

These people are not learned people nor do they have a right to do a kriya called "bayah/ bayyat" .....Instead of wasting your time here go visit a nearest jamatkhana near you.

Shiraz brother,

I am reading your post after so many months but where have you been for so long? sorry to say to my ustad Shiraz but in this post seems that you become little aggressive! a senior and knowledgeable person like you should not become aggressive, it might be discouraging the new comers! ZZ should exclude from it so if you disrespect her then that is just fine which I am doing for a long time because she deserve it.

Hope everything fine in Sugar Land, and your boy may be 4 years old now!

Listener said :

I think I got the gist of what you are saying and it feels like you just spit in my face—disrespectful.

To be clear I have not visited a jamatkhana since I am currently rural but I am waiting to hear back from ITREB after submitting a letter of intent. I am not looking for anything but to discuss the faith and perhaps come across information which changes my view on it all. I am looking to talk religion with people who feel similarly about it. I firmly believe MHI is god, not God, and you can't imagine how lonely it is spiritually to have no connection with others who believe alike. Mainstream Muslims just can't grasp how I feel about the religion, so it's nice to share thoughts with those who can (not that they'd agree).

Just tell us in brief, what do you know about ismailism and the concept of imamat ??

Please explain what you mean by "These people are not learned people nor do they have a right to do a kriya called "bayah/ bayyat...."

By these people I meant every single one of us on this forum...Ismaili or non ismaili....we are not no scholars nor do we hold a phD in this.

Whatever you see here are just few individuals personal view.

Imams[as] are regarded as the wasila/ way/ zariya through which you can experience the divine light. So please don't get mixed up.

While I do agree that allah[swt] can take any form/ shape and size to communicate with the soul.... I say let's not restrict the divine into some glass or human body....There is allah[swt] in you, me and every single person who does good for humanity and others.

Agakhani bhai said :

Shiraz brother,

I am reading your post after so many months but where have you been for so long? sorry to say to my ustad Shiraz but in this post seems that you become little aggressive! a senior and knowledgeable person like you should not become aggressive, it might be discouraging the new comers! ZZ should exclude from it so if you disrespect her then that is just fine which I am doing for a long time because she deserve it.

Hope everything fine in Sugar Land, and your boy may be 4 years old now!

Agakhani bhai, I have no grudge against this new guy nor zznoor...I don't wanna abuse or ridicule anybody. My only request is please click on the search button and try and see if the similar questions have been asked before.

Asking the same questions again and again would not give you any different answers....thats all !!!

When the admin of this forum has no issues with zznoor who are you and me ???

Everybody is entitled to put forth his/her views on this forum [provided you do not repeat the question again and again]....accepting or rejecting it is totally upto an individual.

I have no issue with zznoor or any other coming here to discuss and learn. I have problem with people who repeat the same things like a broken record and who try to convert Ismailis to some other versions of Islam.

If zznoor goes someone else will come with similar postings. The point is that I find the members of this Forum enough imaginative to reply to her and to other people with even more twisted view of Ismailism. Sultan Muhammad Shah said we should not run away from this kind of questioning but we should face them.

shiraz.virani wrote:While I do agree that allah[swt] can take any form/ shape and size to communicate with the soul.... I say let's not restrict the divine into some glass or human body....There is allah[swt] in you, me and every single person who does good for humanity and others.

Sbhai,
There is a vast difference between an ordinary human being and the one who has realized God. Below are some quotes.

People say that human beings are microcosms and this outer universe a macrocosm, but for us the outer is a tiny wholeness and the inner life the vast reality. (Shams Tabriz, "Maqalat")

God said: "I could not be contained in the heavens and the earth, but could be contained in the heart of a true believer. [Soofi/SA5]
-- Prophet Mohamed

For further details, there is a thread at:
can humans BE God?
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 1&start=60

shiraz.virani wrote:Just tell us in brief, what do you know about ismailism and the concept of imamat ??

Not brief but I hope worth the read for you.

I think I may have come across other than I intended. My only wish was to reflect on the thoughts of others, because with each response I gain a little more wisdom. I respect everyone's input. I feel about everyone that they are a face of God and each telling me something different about who He is. We don't need to agree and I would prefer we disagree for the reason that variety is the spice of life, that pluralism is the Truth. When disagreeing we in fact agreeing; I believe this because there is no God but God.

I want to talk specifically to you, this gathering of Ismailis, because we both affirm in addition to the oneness of God that the Holy Prophet is also from God, as is the Holy Prophet's family. And we both affirm His Highness the Aga Khan is present living descendent of this tradition.

What I will learn in time is whether His Highness will accept from me the image I have of him and whether I will except His image he has of himself, that being the tradition and order given to him. I will say that I am nervous at the outcome. That because I take much pleasure in pondering over the idea that the Universe would happen to produce a part of itself in order to help itself, for no other reason than the pleasure of compassion, and its mercy being its will to institute that compassion among humanity. This is my understanding of the Aga Khan and more so the Holy Prophet and the religion of Islam. I firmly believe that He is the chief of this remarkable happening.

I take satisfaction in holding this notion because I don’t think it can be doubted, as is mentioned frequently in the Qur’an. In my opinion the feeling of God’s oneness is merely a point of view and will always remain a matter of perspective since God is what there is. This notion brings me security, something to stand on and hence a passion to help the Good Soul and his efforts to prosper and grow, that I might also take personal pleasure in watching my family grow alongside Him as He brings them pleasure. This pleasure that His Highness dispenses I consider is what the Holy Prophet dispensed and what he meant by heaven. This particular view about heaven is very relatable to me. It goes along with my certainty about life that I can either make heaven of it or make hell of it. And so of course I believe there is no true afterlife, progress ends by uniting with God the Eternal, the Compassionate, the Merciful. Heaven in this life is with the Imam al-Mubeen.

I feel the Imamat is something living, where the compassion and mercy of God the Universe has brought itself to life in a conceivable way. Adam has been given the breath of life so to speak. The Imamat is the human aspect of God living as Ismailis (Muslims) in order to serve Himself (everything else), and so the Imamat constitutes a method for dispensing compassion and mercy and the Aga Khan is the archetypal servant. The only way I can be sure of this whole understanding however depends on His Highness’s blessing. You see he must also believe this about himself in addition to me believing it, he must take this point of view. If I was a betting man I would stake my life that he already believes this about himself in some sense, but still I'm uncertain and waiting to find out the answer. Everything I have said so far has been an attempt to gauge a response from His Highness, by looking at his flock, and so I mean no offense by any of it. Apologies.

I'd like to also quote a lecture given by a prominent modern philosopher, Alan Watts. The title of this lecture is Spiritual Authority and I think it's pretty profound. It does a exceptional job explaining what I understand the Imamat to be but without using Islamic context. Along with this lecture I hope I’ve answered your questiona as well as having introduced myself a bit more.

SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY

"Now in saying therefore that I am not a guru, that means also that I’m not trying to help you or improve you. I accept you as you are. I am not out there to save the world. Of course, when a stream, a bubbling spring flows out from the mountains it’s doing it’s thing. And if a thirsty traveler helps himself, well that’s fine. When a bird sings, it doesn’t sing for the advancement of music. But if somebody stops to listen and is delighted, that’s fine.

And so I talk in the same spirit. I don’t have a group of followers. I’m not trying to make disciples, because I work on the principle of a physician rather than a clergyman. A physician is always trying to get rid of his patients and send them away healthy to stand on their own feet, whereas a clergyman is trying to get them as members of a religious organization so that they will continue to pay their pledges, pay off the mortgage on an expensive building, and generally belong to the church, boost its membership, and thereby prove by sheer weight of numbers the veracity of it’s tenants. And my objective is really to get rid of you so that you won’t need me or any other teacher. I’m afraid some of my colleagues would not approve of that attitude, because it is widely believed and said that in order to advance in the spiritual life, whatever that is, it is essential that you have a guru, and that you accord to that guru perfect obedience.

And so I’m often asked the question, is it really necessary to have a guru? I can answer that only by saying, yes, it is necessary if you think so. In the same spirit as it is said that anybody who goes to a psychiatrist ought to have his head examined. Of course, there is more in that saying than meets the ear, because if you really are sincerely concerned with yourself and are in such confusion that you feel you have to go to a psychiatrist to talk over your state, then of course you need to go. Likewise, if you are in need of someone to tell you what to do to practice meditation of to attain a state of liberation, nirvana, moksha, or whatever it may be called, and you feel that necessity very strongly, then you must have it, because as the poet William Blake said, “The fool who persists in his folly will become wise.”

However, I do want to point this out. What is the source of a guru's authority? He can tell you that he can speak from experience. That he has experienced states of consciousness which have made him profoundly blissful or understanding or compassionate or whatever it may be. And you have his word for it. You have the word of other people who likewise agree with him. But each one of them and you in turn, agree with him out of your own opinion and by your own judgment. And so it is you that are the source of the teacher’s authority. And that is true whether he speaks as an individual or whether he speaks as the representative of a tradition or a church. You may say that you take the Bible as your authority or the Roman Catholic Church. And the Roman Catholic following very often says that the individual mystical experience is not to be trusted because of it’s liability to be interpreted in a whimsical and purely personal way, and that it has to be guarded against excess by the substantial and objective traditions of the church. But those traditions are held to be substantial and objective, only because those who follow believe it to be so. They say so. And if you follow it, you say so.

So the question comes back to you. Why do you believe, why do you form this opinion? Upon what basis does all this rest? Well of course, almost everybody is looking for help, and thus when I was younger, so much younger than today, I never needed anybody’s help in any way. But there is this feeling of a certain helplessness of being alone and somewhat confused in an unpredictable wayward external world of happenings. And this world of happenings includes an enormous amount of suffering, tragedy, and we wonder why we’re here, how we got here, and in short, what to do about the capital “P” Problem of capital “L” Life, to which should be added death. Because it seems to be certain that we are all going to die and that death may be a painful process. That those we love are going to die and so what about it? Is there anyway in which we can become masters of the situation?

Well there are all sorts of ways of trying to escape from the human predicament of being a lonely, isolated consciousness in the midst of this enormous and wayward not-self. We can of course, try to beat the game on a material basis by becoming very wealthy or very powerful. We may resort to all kinds of technology to get rid of our sufferings, hunger, pain, sickness, and so forth. But it will be noticed that as we succeed in these enterprises, we’re not satisfied. In other words, if you feel at this moment that an increase in income would solve your problems, and you got an increase in income, this would give you a pleasant feeling for a few weeks.

But then, as you well know if that’s ever happened to you, the feeling wears off and you may stop worrying about paying your debts and start worrying about whether you will get sick. There is always something to worry about. And if you are very rich indeed, you’ve still got the anxiety about sickness and death and also anxieties about revolution and about whether the Internal Revenue Service will take it all away from you or catch you for cheating on your taxes, or put you in prison for no good reason. Now there is always this worry. And so you realize that the problem of life does not really consist in your external circumstances, because you worry whatever they are. The problem consists rather in what you call your mind.

Could you by some method control your mind so that you won’t worry, and how on Earth would you do that? Well, there are those people who tell you that the best answer is to think positive thoughts, to be peaceful, to breathe slowly, and hum gently, and get yourself into a peaceful state of mind by repeating affirmations such as all is light, all is God, all is good, or whatever it may be. But unfortunately, it doesn’t always work because you have a nagging suspicion in the back of your mind that you’re simply hypnotizing yourself and whistling in the dark. What the Germans call a "hinterdanker", which is the thought concealed way, way back behind your intellect, but has annoying persistence. What if?

And so you realize that this matter of controlling the mind is no superficial undertaking, because although you may be able to smooth the ruffles of your consciousness, there is beneath that a vast area of unconsciousness which erupts as unpredictably as events in the external world. And so you consider seriously the possibilities of psychoanalysis to go down and get into those depths and see if oil can be put on those troubled waters. And then of course, you get into the guru business. You have to go to someone against who’s mirror you can reflect those aspects of yourself of which you are not directly aware."

Listener,

I respect and appreciate every single thing that you have written @ above. All I'm saying is whatever you are saying or asking now has been asked before as well.

May be if you do some research on this forum you might find your answers...Starting soooo many topics with pretty much the same masala leads us nowhere.

That's all !!!

To Listener:Ya Ali Madad.
Right from your first posting,I welcomed you in reply.I assumed that you could be an Ismaili by birth in next phase of life may be even at haqiqati level.
By sheer coincidence( blessings of none other than ALI).you are exactly after nine months,that a biological period to conceive a child.

You landed again as a qualitative Haqiqati on this forum.you are haqiqati for me in in truest of spirit n faith whether you are officially Ismaili or not.

Some with lesser faith on Ali/Allah/MHI may have in different view or grumpiness based on their un blessed or low blessed of inspiration levels.(they will also change someday)

Today it's you AND IN FUTURE AHEAD THERE WOULD BE MILLIONS
desiring to become an Ismaili out of rational sense n Intellect and definitely not by physical religious rituals n brain washing.
You soul is on hyper sonic speed in positive direction.
If possible just meditate by the word 'YA ALI'.
You may Inshallah see the power n magic of ALI in this phase of life.

I along with other Haqiqati members welcome you wholeheartedly
to this wonderful ,true n blessed Faith.

Shiraz,

I am a different person, I can not tolerate if some one insults MHI and criticized Ismaili and Ismaili sect and in Ismaili forum, as long as ZZNoor's concern then let me tell, she has special aim, mission and motto to remain in this forum even after too many insults done by me and showed her door by many! Brother Admin doesn't have that guts or in other words he is not brave enough to drove her out from this forum, even after her so many insults and disrespectful comments on MHI and Ismaili sect so I am fighting with her and hope that pretty soon she will quit this forum if another guy join with me.

The aim of this Forum is not to create controversies or to be sucked into one.

By setting this Forum, we are hopping to create knowledge, to increase knowledge, and to share knowledge.

Postings of other nature are not welcomed and the cleaning process will soon remove them.

If the disrespectful comments and insults towards MHI are Oks to you as an Admin, then what anybody else in this forum expect from you bro?? I just keep reminding your own words that you will ban her account if she uses any disrespectful comments but she did couple of times after your above promis!!

BTW:- If you really starts to clean inappropriate posts ( which I doubt because it is not an easy task) then! I, think the most of those posts will be from ZZNoor that is for sure because her posts are nothing else but a stolen materials from net ( copy and paste)!!!

kmaherali wrote:

zznoor wrote:MHI God?

Astaghfirrullah

Sura 59: 22-24

The Holy Qur'an is open to all kinds of interpretations. I respect your interpretation.
there are many Ayas of Quran can be interpreted only one way. For 59:22-24 if Ismailis have different interpretation then let's see it. Please study 3:07

The Qur'an also states:
"O ye people, verily Proof has come to you from your Lord and we have sent you manifest Light." (4: 174)

Most Tafseer identify "proof" = Prophet Saw and "Manifast light"= The Quran

Our 48th Imam has stated in his Memoirs:

"The Shias have therefore always held that after the Prophet's death, Divine power, guidance and leadership manifested themselves in Hazrat Ali as the first Imam or spiritual chief of the devout."

So let us agree to disgaree and move on.

I do too.

Please Note:

Islam considers oneness of Allah over and above anything. There are no god or deity in Islam and there is only one God we call Allah or Khuda in Indo Persian Areas

Brother, Being scholar of Islam your response should be very affirmative, not weak.

shiraz.virani wrote:Listener,

I respect and appreciate every single thing that you have written @ above. All I'm saying is whatever you are saying or asking now has been asked before as well.

May be if you do some research on this forum you might find your answers...Starting soooo many topics with pretty much the same masala leads us nowhere.

That's all !!!

Thank you for that.

The reason I had asked questions myself instead of looking to other threads was because I needed direct responses. Just as I need other people to tell me if I'm kind or cruel so too I needed you guys to tell me about myself. If I consider myself kind without considering others, I maybe cruel, and I don't want that. I hope I make sense.

nuseri wrote:To Listener:Ya Ali Madad.
Right from your first posting,I welcomed you in reply.I assumed that you could be an Ismaili by birth in next phase of life may be even at haqiqati level.
By sheer coincidence( blessings of none other than ALI).you are exactly after nine months,that a biological period to conceive a child.

You landed again as a qualitative Haqiqati on this forum.you are haqiqati for me in in truest of spirit n faith whether you are officially Ismaili or not.

Some with lesser faith on Ali/Allah/MHI may have in different view or grumpiness based on their un blessed or low blessed of inspiration levels.(they will also change someday)

Today it's you AND IN FUTURE AHEAD THERE WOULD BE MILLIONS
desiring to become an Ismaili out of rational sense n Intellect and definitely not by physical religious rituals n brain washing.
You soul is on hyper sonic speed in positive direction.
If possible just meditate by the word 'YA ALI'.
You may Inshallah see the power n magic of ALI in this phase of life.

I along with other Haqiqati members welcome you wholeheartedly
to this wonderful ,true n blessed Faith.

Thank you very much. I am encouraged by your post and it makes me hopeful.

agakhani wrote:Shiraz,

I am a different person, I can not tolerate if some one insults MHI and criticized Ismaili and Ismaili sect and in Ismaili forum, as long as ZZNoor's concern then let me tell, she has special aim, mission and motto to remain in this forum even after too many insults done by me and showed her door by many! Brother Admin doesn't have that guts or in other words he is not brave enough to drove her out from this forum, even after her so many insults and disrespectful comments on MHI and Ismaili sect so I am fighting with her and hope that pretty soon she will quit this forum if another guy join with me.

Maybe brother Admin knows that ZZnoor is really God the Universe playing at not being God the Universe, and the whole point of her coming is to create appreciation and knowledge. By her disrespecting she makes known what is respect. The only way to find the faith is to leave the faith. Contrast.

Listener wrote: Maybe brother Admin knows that ZZnoor is really God the Universe playing at not being God the Universe,

I am not sure why you guys give that much importance to zznoor.

Honestly, I do not see here any "deep conversation" as the thread suggest.

As I said a large portion of the posts which are irrelevant and should not be archived will be deleted soon.

Admin wrote:

Listener wrote: Maybe brother Admin knows that ZZnoor is really God the Universe playing at not being God the Universe,

I am not sure why you guys give that much importance to zznoor.

Honestly, I do not see here any "deep conversation" as the thread suggest.

As I said a large portion of the posts which are irrelevant and should not be archived will be deleted soon.

What I meant is that we all have something to add that is valuable. You might ask what is valuable about someone adding something derogatory, especially when there isn't a relevant need. But isn't pluralism about both the good and the bad? Like everything, bad is really good in disguise. Perhaps being South Asian, some of you at least, you can relate to the trinity of Hinduism where Shiva destroys so that Brahma creates, they help each other along. Maybe she doesn't know it but zznoor obviously discusses here because she has an relationship with the faith, that is she still receives the light of the Ismailis although she may not realize its worth.

The deep conversation hasn't been brought up really. So many questions remain. Would it matter if it was proven the Aga Khan wasn't really descendant of the Holy Prophet? If so, what would that mean? Is the Aga Khan the sole imam, can there be simultaneously other imams? If so, what does that mean too? What if a future Aga Khan passes away without an heir, would the Ismailis then fall apart? Could the Imamat ever become an institution of democracy? And will there be in this modern era of the internet a revival of the dawah, a rapid growth in the activities and number of Ismailis?

Many questions puzzle me and answering them leads to more food for thought. I hoped this thread would give some fruitful ideas about what the Aga Khan exactly means. Like when Christians say that Jesus died for our sins, what does that mean? How does that translate to the here and now? So what is the meaning of the Imam in all dimensions? Not as it was understood centuries past, but now, with our modern knowledge.

In Ismailism, the creation can not exist even a split second without the Imam. That replies to all your queries in the above post. The Imam's Farmans are final and this has been confirmed by a Farman. I hope this put to rest this line of questioning.

zznoor wrote:
there are many Ayas of Quran can be interpreted only one way. For 59:22-24 if Ismailis have different interpretation then let's see it. Please study 3:07.

You quoted:"Allah is He, other than Whom there is no other god;"

In this case we don't need any interpretation because Allah himself has said per Quran: 24:35:
"Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth."

There is only one light and that there is no other God. Hence Tawhid is confirmed. As per 4:174 this one light is manifest.

zznoor wrote:
The Qur'an also states:
"O ye people, verily Proof has come to you from your Lord and we have sent you manifest Light." (4: 174)

Most Tafseer identify "proof" = Prophet Saw and "Manifast light"= The Quran

The Proof has to be present at all times. It cannot be restricted to a period of 23 years - the timeframe of the Prophet. The manifest Light cannot be the Qur'an because Allah himself has defined the Light in 24:35. Also the Manifest Light has to be present at all times. It was present even before the Prophet.

Hence we Ismailis interpret the Proof and the Manifest Light as the Imam who has always been present since creation.

Our 48th Imam has stated in his Memoirs:

"The Shias have therefore always held that after the Prophet's death, Divine power, guidance and leadership manifested themselves in Hazrat Ali as the first Imam or spiritual chief of the devout."

zznoor wrote:
Islam considers oneness of Allah over and above anything. There are no god or deity in Islam and there is only one God we call Allah or Khuda in Indo Persian Areas

As explained above accepting the Manifest Light is accepting oneness of Allah. In fact we do not believe in monotheism (one God) but in monoreality (one reality) as explained by the 48th Imam:

"Thus Islam's basic principle can only be defined as mono-realism and not as monotheism. Consider, for example, the opening declaration of every Islamic prayer: "Allah-o-Akbar". What does that mean? There can be no doubt that the second word of the declaration likens the character of Allah to a matrix which contains all and gives existence to the infinite, to space, to time, to the Universe, to all active and passive forces imaginable, to life and to the soul. Imam Hassan has explained the Islamic doctrine of God and the Universe by analogy with the sun and its reflection in the pool of a fountain; there is certainly a reflection or image of the sun, but with what poverty and with what little reality; how small and pale is the likeness between this impalpable image and the immense, blazing, white-hot glory of the celestial sphere itself. Allah is the sun; and the Universe, as we know it in all its magnitude, and time, with its power, are nothing more than the reflection of the Absolute in the mirror of the fountain."

I hope I have made myself very clear this time. You may disagree which is fine, but let us move on.

Listener wrote:The deep conversation hasn't been brought up really. So many questions remain. Would it matter if it was proven the Aga Khan wasn't really descendant of the Holy Prophet? If so, what would that mean? Is the Aga Khan the sole imam, can there be simultaneously other imams? If so, what does that mean too? What if a future Aga Khan passes away without an heir, would the Ismailis then fall apart? Could the Imamat ever become an institution of democracy? And will there be in this modern era of the internet a revival of the dawah, a rapid growth in the activities and number of Ismailis?

The 48th Imam proved beyond any doubt in the court of law during the Haji Bibi case that he is the direct descendant of the Holy Prophet. For details please go to:

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... opic&t=355

There can be only one Imam at any given time. There can only be one Manifest Light.

If (a big if) the future Aga Khan passes away without a heir than Ismailism would collapse. The line of Imamat has always existed since creation and we are told in the Qur'an (I am assuming you believe in it) that it will continue forever.

The Imamat can never be an institution of democracy. It is Divinely ordained. For more on this please refer to the article: "DID THE PROPHET
APPOINT HIS
SUCCESSOR?" at:
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... pic&t=7700

As per constitution:
http://www.ismaili.net/Source/extra1.html

"(C) Succession to Imamat is by way of Nass,it being the absolute prerogative of the Imam of the time to appoint his successor from amongst any of his male descendants whether they be sons or remoter issue."

It is conceivable that in the modern era of the internet, we may see a revival of the dawa, however the means will be different than in the past. Technology will play a major role.

To zznoor:Ya Ali Madad.

I have asked the meaning of word' ImamEMubeen'.

As you are aware ALL the quack who explained it did goofed it up. As a matter of fact I may wish to see nastiest tamperer of meanings graves to be dug up, regardless of time gone to see to know if concept of 'Azhab e kabar' is there.


give the definition of the above word.

2) There is a hadith which say like

"The best of religion is by service to people/humanity'.

Is there hadith on those lines and do Sharaiti's accept it and believe in it.

To listener

Contemplate on the following, if you truly consider yourself an ismaili, and you'll get your answers about mental illness or deformations etc...


"The Imam, both outwardly and inwardly, both exotically and esoterically issue from the pure line and loins of the Imam, one after another. The Imam is perfect when still in the form of sperm, in the loins of his father and the pure womb of his mother. An Imam is always an Imam and always perfect. "
- Imam Hasan ala-zikraulsalam

- Imam Hasan ala-zikraulsalam

Is Ismaili Imam? there is one Imam Ala Zikariyasalam are you referring this imam?

agakhani wrote:

- Imam Hasan ala-zikraulsalam

Is Ismaili Imam? there is one Imam Ala Zikariyasalam are you referring this imam?

Read Ismaili History at: http://www.ismaili.net/histoire/main.html
"HASAN ALA ZIKRIHI'S SALAM (557-561/1162-1166)


Hasan Ali, or Abu'l Hasan, surnamed Zikrihi's Salam (peace be on his mention) was born in Alamut. He is reported to have born in 539/1145, but according to another tradition, he was born in 536/1142."

I hope this clarifies....