Explaination needed of Koran Ayat.

tret · Post by **tret** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:24 pm

agakhani wrote:For evidence go back and read your own post in which you always back her what else solid ground of proof you need where you bare the proof!?

Please refresh my memory, by quoting what I said. I have probably hundered replies, and don't know which one you are referring to?

agakhani wrote: You are absolutely right I am still believing that way:-

No doubt about that Quran is old/outdated/incomplete/eddied, omitted and changed many times, if you think quran is as it was first reveled on Prophet then you are fooling your self.

Good, so at least you still hold that position. I don't want to go down this avenue with you again, to show you that you are wrong, but the point I was trying to make, is if you don't believe in Qur'an, then why are you criticising others of being authentic reference of Qur'an or unauthentic reference from Qur'an? On the one hand you are refusing the Qur'an, on the other hand, you are criticising others of not making authentic reference from Qur'an? Something is really not correct here...

agakhani wrote: I never claimed that I am a master of Ginans that titles was given by Shiraz, however I am not that is for sure. the reason I rely on ginans most is, I find answers of my questions in ginans which unfortunately I can not find in Quran - because there is none!! Don't you believe this!!!?? then let me refresh your memory

If you guys still remember that few months ago I challenged every one to find out how this universe was created first? how old this universe is? when this universe will destroyed? and asked few other question!,
my this challenge is still open, go ahead and find out the answer from Quran Sorry to say but you wont find these answers any where else except ginans not from Quran either.

My above challenge is still valid, active and still open for all but specially for those self proclaimed Quranic scholars or masters in this forum.

tell me which category of ginan do you find these answers?
A)
B)
C)

You have no idea which ginans belong to which category, do you?

Let me ask you a very simple question, agakhani sir:

- are you a Muslim? or are you an Ismailie?

In a debate, you really have to try to get yourself to the same level of your opponent, and I am trying, agakhani brother; but at somepoint it will get really annoying. It's like when explaining something to a child, you have to get down to your knees to his level and try and explain using his language and level of understanding, but after a few repetition, it can get annoying.

tret · Post by **tret** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:34 pm

zznoor wrote:Brother tret
ASAK

B)Prescribed Part:

I disagree since I promised not to derail the thread, I will not continue. Hope somewhere we will discuss it in appropriate thread

I think I needed to be a little more explicit.

the prescribed part, we are referring to the rituals.

I guess, you are immediately thinking of 5 pillars.

Let me clarify, the essence of pillars will always remain the same. Everyone will have their own understanding and interpretation of the pillars of Islam. That's not what we are talking about.

What I meant by prescribed is how you physically perform the Shariah. i.e. Shia twelvers combined x5 time preayers into 3 times. Why? That's part of prescribed part of Shariah.

We follow guidance of Present Imam, and according to Ismailie doctrine and theology, Imams of the time have authority to alter the prescribed part of Shariah according to time and space.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:38 pm

What I meant by prescribed is how you physically perform the Shariah. i.e. Shia twelvers combined x5 time preayers into 3 times. Why? That's part of prescribed part of Shariah.

We follow guidance of Present Imam, and according to Ismailie doctrine and theology, Imams of the time have authority to alter the prescribed part of Shariah according to time and space.

Twelvers combine prayers for convince. They pray 4fird of Zohr and immediately pray 4 Asr fird. Thus combine Zohr-Asr
They pray 3 Magrib fird and follow it up by praying 4 fird Ishah.
Thus combining Magrib-Isha
Since prophet combined this prayers few times they say it is ok.

Let us not flog dead horse.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:49 pm

Tret, Nuseri, Agakhani and others.....Always remember that no matter you have difference of opinion among yourselves, you belong to same faith and are embarked on the same journey [Asal Makaam] with the same guide [Imam e Zaman] on the same route [Siratal Mustakim]

If you guys keep on fighting all you're doing is hurting your own intellect.

Lets just accept the differences and move on...It does not matter how good writer you are, all that matters is how good you are to your OWN KIND.

tret · Post by **tret** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:43 pm

shiraz.virani wrote:Tret, Nuseri, Agakhani and others.....Always remember that no matter you have difference of opinion among yourselves, you belong to same faith and are embarked on the same journey [Asal Makaam] with the same guide [Imam e Zaman] on the same route [Siratal Mustakim]

If you guys keep on fighting all you're doing is hurting your own intellect.

Lets just accept the differences and move on...It does not matter how good writer you are, all that matters is how good you are to your OWN KIND.

Shiraz.virani brother. There's nothing wrong with constructive discussions. If a discussion is going nowhere and in circle with no added value, then I am with you that everyone should differ.

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:17 pm

Ya Ali Madad:To Quran scholars.(All categories).

Is the word 'Namaz' mentioned in the original arabic text and not interpreted as.

and is the word 'Dua' mentioned in Quran?

Please give with Ayat nos location.

tret · Post by **tret** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:21 pm

nuseri wrote:Ya Ali Madad:To Quran scholars.(All categories).

Is the word 'Namaz' mentioned in the original arabic text and not interpreted as.

and is the word 'Dua' mentioned in Quran?

Please give with Ayat nos location.

I know the word 'Namaz' isn't. However, Salat is mentioned. I am not sure about word Du'a.

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:16 pm

tret wrote:
nuseri wrote:Ya Ali Madad:To Quran scholars.(All categories).

Is the word 'Namaz' mentioned in the original arabic text and not interpreted as.

and is the word 'Dua' mentioned in Quran?

Please give with Ayat nos location.
I know the word 'Namaz' isn't. However, Salat is mentioned. I am not sure about word Du'a.

Du'a is mentioned in the Qur'an - I don't have the verse handy - but in gist - Allah tells Man to offer Du'a.

Shams

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:53 am

To ShamsB:Ya Ali Madad.

Thanks.You got my question right.

Please if u can quote the full Ayat and it's no.and also an Ayat before n after it.
any other Ayats also where the word 'Dua' is written or mentioned in original arabic text.

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:12 am

Supplication (Dua) from Quran

islamicfinder.org/supplication.php?lang=english

Add
http://www.
In front and paste it in your browser

Enjoy it

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:14 am

Supplication (Dua) from Quran

islamicfinder.org/supplication.php?lang=english

Add
http://www.
In front and paste it in your browser

Enjoy it

a_27826 · Post by **a_27826** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:10 am

nuseri wrote:To ShamsB:Ya Ali Madad.

Thanks.You got my question right.

Please if u can quote the full Ayat and it's no.and also an Ayat before n after it.
any other Ayats also where the word 'Dua' is written or mentioned in original arabic text.

003:038 verily, You are the Hearer of Prayer (duai)

013:014 the prayer (duao) of the unbelievers goes only astray

014:039 surely my Lord hears the prayer (duai)

017:011 man prays (yadau) for evil, as he prays (duau) for good; man is ever hasty

025:077 my Lord esteems you not at all were it not for your prayer (duaokum)

041:049 man is never tired of praying (duai) for good. But if evil touch him, then he is despairing and hopeless

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:31 pm

shams bhai said :

Du'a is mentioned in the Qur'an - I don't have the verse handy - but in gist - Allah tells Man to offer Du'a.

Shams

“And when My servants ask you, concerning Me- indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation[dua] of every supplicant when he calls upon Me "

2:186

nuseri · Post by **nuseri** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:11 am

Ya Ali madad:

I thank all the members for their valued inputs.
Ali+lah=Allah picks n chooses his words PERFECTLY.

We Ismailis call our act of prayers as 'Dua' as said by Allah in Quran.

Does the word 'Dua',please reply from Quran only.

1.Has no of times it to said?

2. Specific timing it is to be said?

3.Does it have any lower and upper limit capping numbers of any sort.?

4.Does is sound open ended to mean IT CAN BE greater than just physical acts?

5.Does it has rigid statements/threats/punishment if one is not able to perform it's Dua?

tret · Post by **tret** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:37 am

To zznoor:

I want you to remember one thing and take it with you, once you leave here is the following:

What you hear from us [me and other participants here], in these forums, does not necessarily represent ismailie belief in totality! It may represent partially, but not necessarily all. It's every individual's respective opinion and belief. Even we ismailies have a very diverse and rich plurality and we are welcoming it.

a_27826 · Post by **a_27826** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:00 am

nuseri wrote:Ya Ali madad:

I thank all the members for their valued inputs.
Ali+lah=Allah picks n chooses his words PERFECTLY.

We Ismailis call our act of prayers as 'Dua' as said by Allah in Quran.

Does the word 'Dua',please reply from Quran only.

1.Has no of times it to said?

2. Specific timing it is to be said?

3.Does it have any lower and upper limit capping numbers of any sort.?

4.Does is sound open ended to mean IT CAN BE greater than just physical acts?

5.Does it has rigid statements/threats/punishment if one is not able to perform it's Dua?

Bear in mind the word "dua" slightly changes its meaning depending on the context of the sentence.

Depending on the context of the sentence it might mean pray, supplicate, invoke, call, invite, plea etc.

I don't know arabic, so somebody else might shed more light on the word "dua" if you want to know more about the word

tret · Post by **tret** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:50 am

a_27826 wrote:
nuseri wrote:Ya Ali madad:

I thank all the members for their valued inputs.
Ali+lah=Allah picks n chooses his words PERFECTLY.

We Ismailis call our act of prayers as 'Dua' as said by Allah in Quran.

Does the word 'Dua',please reply from Quran only.

1.Has no of times it to said?

2. Specific timing it is to be said?

3.Does it have any lower and upper limit capping numbers of any sort.?

4.Does is sound open ended to mean IT CAN BE greater than just physical acts?

5.Does it has rigid statements/threats/punishment if one is not able to perform it's Dua?

Bear in mind the word "dua" slightly changes its meaning depending on the context of the sentence.

Depending on the context of the sentence it might mean pray, supplicate, invoke, call, invite, plea etc.

I don't know arabic, so somebody else might shed more light on the word "dua" if you want to know more about the word

While I agree that words can mean differently depending in which context they are used.

I guess that's the problem with most people [of other faith, and sometimes ours too], that we try to interpret the Ayats according to our level of understanding, and the intended meaning and purpose could be something else.

The true and intended meaning and tah'weel of Ayats [litteral meaning is signs] of the Qur'an can understood through Muhal'eem-e Sadiq. Even in Qur'ah there's a reference to 4 rivers:

- River of Water - a sign to the First Intellect [Universal Intellect] which is pure and clean.
- River of Wine - the teachings of the Imam or the Ayats of the Qur'an: It has an affect that can confuse [at the same time tease] the mind of the seeker, not being able to completely understand the secret behind it.
- River of Milk - the teachings and Hidayats of Pir, which is nurishing and fullfilling to murids' soul.
- River of Honey - the teachings and Tah'leem of Dai's which is understandable by murids and compared to sweetness of honey.

Dai's and Pir's are inspired by the Imams and can pass the knowledge of Taw'heed to murid's which can be understood. Where as murid's should receive the tah'leem from Muhalem-e-Sadiq.

People are trying to interpret Ayats [sings] of the Qur'an, the way they understand according to their preceptions and level of understand.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:01 pm

tell me which category of ginan do you find these answers?
A)
B)
C)

You have no idea which ginans belong to which category, do you?

Let me ask you a very simple question, agakhani sir:

- are you a Muslim? or are you an Ismailie?

In a debate, you really have to try to get yourself to the same level of your opponent, and I am trying, agakhani brother; but at somepoint it will get really annoying. It's like when explaining something to a child, you have to get down to your knees to his level and try and explain using his language and level of understanding, but after a few repetition, it can get annoying.

Well, I never categories any ginans because it is beyond my hand and I am not any al-waez , ginanic researcher or author also I never thought about that.

But I found many ginanic information in ginans, granths and Ananat akhado which are in Khojki and Gujarati languages some ginans are already published some ginans are still not!. There were many information which were Ismailis pirs intentionally wanted to hide from other peoples and rullers at their times therefore they (pir Sadardin) introduced a different language called "KHOJKI" means only for 'KHOJAS, unfortunately very few members knows this language now and soon it will extinct but pirs stored bunch of different detail information in this language so that non-Ismailis can not take vantage of that.
The other method pirs used to hide information was!! they wrote one information in one ginans and remaining information in different ginans !!
Let me give you an example about "Zhurat" you find about "Zahoorat" that it will take place!!!! but when it will be happens? is written in different ginans , which Imam will be ( FOR YOUR QUICK INFORMATION 51ST) what the name of that that imam is described in another ginans,so, basically you won't find these kind information in just few ginans and specially those ginans which are recited in JK now a days, these ginans are just general ginans which teaching us how to behave our selves?, not to do any bad deeds, go JK every day e.t.c.e.t.c. but if you need more and deep information then you have to go deep, therefore first of all you need to learn Khojki and Gujarati language.

More information:-

1,For Ruhani progress and Ruhani achievements you need to read Pir Sadardin and pir Shams ginans. for interesting readers I will give name of ginans via e-mail.
2, for "Zahurat" in this subject you can find many gianss butas I wrote above one information is in one ginans and other information in another gnians so you have to read all (almost 600 ginans) to find out complete details when that will be happen?
3, Want to know how to sit in Bandagi and Ibadat? you have to read 'YOGESHWAR' ginans of Syed Imam Shah, pir Shams and pir Sadardin and Syeda Imam begum also wrote good information in this subject
4, For loves towards " Ahle Bait and H. Ali, Prophet Mohammed , Bibi Zohara, Imam Hussein and Imam Hasan) you find hundreds ginans, I do not know which ginans I put it here but let me put only one of syed Noor Mohammad shah 'SATVENI NI VEL"

5,About Reincarnation aand 10 (das) avatars many ginans are written in this subject.

1, Das Avatar moto of Pir Sadardin
2, Das avatar nano of pir Sadardin
3, Das avatat by syed Imam Shah

6, You can also find some history in some ginans and granths

7, There are almost 600 ginans which are printed and if you lucky enough you can find it if they are still not out of print but there are still thousand of ginans which are not still not printed and still in Khojki manuscripts.

8, There are more then 80 "granths" which are loaded with all kind information but pirs used intentionally very hard language in these granths.
In granths pirs has used "OLD GUJARATI" which is not spoken and written any more, along with some Sanskrit and Pakrit words so, you need to have basic knowledge of these languages too to better understand Granths

9, FYI Pirs has used 24 different languages

So, be honest with you and make it straight, sorry, I can not categorized any ginans nor I can give any grade like "A, B, OR C". which you are asking for a long time! it is possible that one ginan may be just regular ginans for me but the same ginan may be treasure of gold for other jamati members so it is very hard to categorized ginans but one thing is very clear cut you can find almost all the information in ginans.

a_27826 · Post by **a_27826** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:10 pm

tret wrote: People are trying to interpret Ayats [sings] of the Qur'an, the way they understand according to their perceptions and level of understand.

well, what's wrong doing that, if one does not know "Imam Of The Time" and errs in sincerely interpretating the message of God ?

Does not Quran say "those who believe in God, the Last Day and do righteous things, have nothing to fear" ?

Or maybe i have misinterpreted 002:062, 002:177, 002:277, 005:069, 020:112 ?

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:19 pm

Let me ask you a very simple question, agakhani sir:

- are you a Muslim? or are you an Ismailie?

Off course I am Muslim.
I already wrote this many times before but let me clear it one more time

Yes, I am Muslim first and then after I am an Ismaili
Yes, I do believe in one and only one "Allah" there are no two Allahs. period
Yes, I do believe and as ann Ismaili this is my faith that current MHI is my Ruhani Rahbar and he is the holder of Allah's Noor.
Yes, I do believe that Prophet Mohammed was Allah's last Rasool and no more Nabi or Rassol will comes after Him.
Yes, I do believe that H. Ali (s.a.) was from Allah (ALIULLAH). ( I think Nuseri is trying to prove this for a long time and he will be happy after reading this !!
Yes, I also believe that there will be "DAY OF JUDGMENT'
Yes, I also believes in other Nabis and Rasools too which are mentioned in Quran; like H. Moses, H. Noah, H. Ibrahim e.t.c.
Yes, I do believe and read Quran - because it is a holy books for Muslims it is different story how I consider 'USMANIA QURAN" but yes I do believe in Quran and therefore I read on and off.

Need any more clarification or this is enough?

tret · Post by **tret** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:30 pm

agakhani wrote:
tell me which category of ginan do you find these answers?
A)
B)
C)

You have no idea which ginans belong to which category, do you?

Let me ask you a very simple question, agakhani sir:
- are you a Muslim? or are you an Ismailie?

In a debate, you really have to try to get yourself to the same level of your opponent, and I am trying, agakhani brother; but at somepoint it will get really annoying. It's like when explaining something to a child, you have to get down to your knees to his level and try and explain using his language and level of understanding, but after a few repetition, it can get annoying.
Well, I never categories any ginans because it is beyond my hand and I am not any al-waez , ginanic researcher or author also I never thought about that.

But I found many ginanic information in ginans, granths and Ananat akhado which are in Khojki and Gujarati languages some ginans are already published some ginans are still not!. There were many information which were Ismailis pirs intentionally wanted to hide from other peoples and rullers at their times therefore they (pir Sadardin) introduced a different language called "KHOJKI" means only for 'KHOJAS, unfortunately very few members knows this language now and soon it will extinct but pirs stored bunch of different detail information in this language so that non-Ismailis can not take vantage of that.
The other method pirs used to hide information was!! they wrote one information in one ginans and remaining information in different ginans !!
Let me give you an example about "Zhurat" you find about "Zahoorat" that it will take place!!!! but when it will be happens? is written in different ginans , which Imam will be ( FOR YOUR QUICK INFORMATION 51ST) what the name of that that imam is described in another ginans,so, basically you won't find these kind information in just few ginans and specially those ginans which are recited in JK now a days, these ginans are just general ginans which teaching us how to behave our selves?, not to do any bad deeds, go JK every day e.t.c.e.t.c. but if you need more and deep information then you have to go deep, therefore first of all you need to learn Khojki and Gujarati language.

More information:-

1,For Ruhani progress and Ruhani achievements you need to read Pir Sadardin and pir Shams ginans. for interesting readers I will give name of ginans via e-mail.
2, for "Zahurat" in this subject you can find many gianss butas I wrote above one information is in one ginans and other information in another gnians so you have to read all (almost 600 ginans) to find out complete details when that will be happen?
3, Want to know how to sit in Bandagi and Ibadat? you have to read 'YOGESHWAR' ginans of Syed Imam Shah, pir Shams and pir Sadardin and Syeda Imam begum also wrote good information in this subject
4, For loves towards " Ahle Bait and H. Ali, Prophet Mohammed , Bibi Zohara, Imam Hussein and Imam Hasan) you find hundreds ginans, I do not know which ginans I put it here but let me put only one of syed Noor Mohammad shah 'SATVENI NI VEL"

5,About Reincarnation aand 10 (das) avatars many ginans are written in this subject.

1, Das Avatar moto of Pir Sadardin
2, Das avatar nano of pir Sadardin
3, Das avatat by syed Imam Shah

6, You can also find some history in some ginans and granths

7, There are almost 600 ginans which are printed and if you lucky enough you can find it if they are still not out of print but there are still thousand of ginans which are not still not printed and still in Khojki manuscripts.

8, There are more then 80 "granths" which are loaded with all kind information but pirs used intentionally very hard language in these granths.
In granths pirs has used "OLD GUJARATI" which is not spoken and written any more, along with some Sanskrit and Pakrit words so, you need to have basic knowledge of these languages too to better understand Granths

9, FYI Pirs has used 24 different languages

So, be honest with you and make it straight, sorry, I can not categorized any ginans nor I can give any grade like "A, B, OR C". which you are asking for a long time! it is possible that one ginan may be just regular ginans for me but the same ginan may be treasure of gold for other jamati members so it is very hard to categorized ginans but one thing is very clear cut you can find almost all the information in ginans.

agakhani - Thanks for this information. It's really helpful and appreciated.

The following is from the resolution of the 1975...

Printing of Ginans

the classification of Ginans into three categories, vis:
Category 'A' : Ginans with no Hindu elements
Category 'B' : Ginans with preipheral Hindu elements
Category 'C' : Ginans which are rich in Hindu elements

Ginans in Category 'A' to be compiled for printing by Ismailia Association for India, and drail texts thereof to be sent to all Ismailia Association...

Ginans in Category 'B' to be studiedon a case by case basis by Ismailia Association for India and thereafter to be compiled for printing...

A compilation of all Ginans in Category 'C' in their original form, to be sent by Ismailia Association for India...

The respective Ismailia Association for India and Pakistan to consult over the compilation for printing of selected verses from "Saloka", "Anant Akhado" and "Buj Niranjan"...

So, I guess, the Ginans that aren't printed and available, could be fall into category 'C'?

I would be very interested to know how the concept of creation is described or mentioned in Ginans.

- Can you please be kind and put together a pharagraph or two about the concept of creation in the Ginans?

tret · Post by **tret** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:51 pm

a_27826 wrote:
tret wrote: People are trying to interpret Ayats [sings] of the Qur'an, the way they understand according to their perceptions and level of understand.
well, what's wrong doing that, if one does not know "Imam Of The Time" and errs in sincerely interpretating the message of God ?

Does not Quran say "those who believe in God, the Last Day and do righteous things, have nothing to fear" ?

Or maybe i have misinterpreted 002:062, 002:177, 002:277, 005:069, 020:112 ?

Thanks and appreciate your input. Here's what how I look at it.

Ismailie isn't the only path to salvation and truth that's for sure, but nonetheless it is the straight path [shortest path] (Sirat-ul-Mustaqim).
Over the history, there have been others who weren't Ismailies, but yet have come to realization at last; but those are very few in numbers.

For ummah, the presence of a divine guide on earth is essential, without which it would be really hard for a 'weak spring' to find its way, to join 'The Ocean' [or a weak 'spark' to become a strong 'Fire'].

So, according to my belief anyways, presence of The Divine Guide is very important for humanity; and through which one can purify his soul and elevate to higher stations of reality.

It's true for any book [and the Qur'an is no exception] that every reader could interpret concepts mentioned in the book differently. Qur'an being The Book of symbolism and mysticism, one with not enough knowledge may go in different direction, which I think is not right.

I guess the real question to ask would be, who's interpretation is correct and to follow? My interpretation? Yours? Admin's? It would be very easy if all of us come up with the same interpretation, then there won't be no dispute, but what happens when we all come up with 3 different version? who would be right and who would be wrong?

tret · Post by **tret** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:07 pm

agakhani wrote:
Let me ask you a very simple question, agakhani sir:

- are you a Muslim? or are you an Ismailie?
Off course I am Muslim.
I already wrote this many times before but let me clear it one more time

Yes, I am Muslim first and then after I am an Ismaili
Yes, I do believe in one and only one "Allah" there are no two Allahs. period
Yes, I do believe and as ann Ismaili this is my faith that current MHI is my Ruhani Rahbar and he is the holder of Allah's Noor.
Yes, I do believe that Prophet Mohammed was Allah's last Rasool and no more Nabi or Rassol will comes after Him.
Yes, I do believe that H. Ali (s.a.) was from Allah (ALIULLAH). ( I think Nuseri is trying to prove this for a long time and he will be happy after reading this !!
Yes, I also believe that there will be "DAY OF JUDGMENT'
Yes, I also believes in other Nabis and Rasools too which are mentioned in Quran; like H. Moses, H. Noah, H. Ibrahim e.t.c.
Yes, I do believe and read Quran - because it is a holy books for Muslims it is different story how I consider 'USMANIA QURAN" but yes I do believe in Quran and therefore I read on and off.

Need any more clarification or this is enough?

Thanks for confirmation.

A couple of observations.

About the following

Yes, I do believe that H. Ali (s.a.) was from Allah (ALIULLAH). ( I think Nuseri is trying to prove this for a long time and he will be happy after reading

- Do you know that ALI-ULLAH is not the same as ALI = ALLAH?
- Do you also realize that nuseri is trying to prove that ALI = ALLAH?

Can you clarify the following please?

- Is ALI = Allah?
- Is ALI from Allah?

Another point.

Yes, I do believe and read Quran - because it is a holy books for Muslims it is different story how I consider 'USMANIA QURAN" but yes I do believe in Quran and therefore I read on and off.

Can you please elaborate what you mean? I think I know what you mean, but I want you to confirm it.

tret · Post by **tret** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:10 pm

agakhani wrote:2, for "Zahurat" in this subject you can find many gianss butas I wrote above one information is in one ginans and other information in another gnians so you have to read all (almost 600 ginans) to find out complete details when that will be happen?

Can you please elaborate in the concept of "Zahurat"? Is it the same as concept of "Resurrection"? I'd appreciate your POV on this topic...

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:12 pm

tret said :

Can you please be kind and put together a pharagraph or two about the concept of creation in the Ginans?

Hope this helps

simerg.com/literary-readings/concepts-of-modern-cosmology-and-astrophysics-in-two-ismaili-ginans-choghadia-and-mul-gayatri/

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:58 am

I want you to remember one thing and take it with you, once you leave here is the following:

I am not going anywhere except when I go upstairs.
If I post anything detractors will leave thread subject and peruse me.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:30 am

I am not going anywhere except when I go upstairs.

I am waiting for your new reincarnation as a pig so please hurry up and go up stair quick so that I (as a pig) not have to wait long!

"Mane khabar chhe ke tuje agle janame suvvar banana padenga! Me Pig/suvvar aour tu meri suvvarrani!! Kichad me Gel karenge!!
I will pig and you will my piglet and we will be play in mud

[/quote]

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:44 am

simerg.com/literary-readings/concepts-of-modern-cosmology-and-astrophysics-in-two-ismaili-ginans-choghadia-and-mul-gayatri/

Thanks Shiraz, you saved my times.

But I will add one ginan/granth which is specially composed on creation:-

1, CHAR JUG ANE CHAR KALAPNU MANDAN
Four Yugas and for Kalap's creation. composed by pir Sadardin

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:02 am

If I post anything detractors will leave thread subject and peruse me.

Telling some one as a Pig is not detractors then what is it?,

Telling Prophet Mohammad as a Puppet of H. Ali is not an appropriate language?? then what is it??

Throwing garbage and making own wrong interpretation of ayas is not derailing then what is it!!!!?????

Copying and pasting unreliable sources from internet is not garbage then what is it!!!??

After so many insults and proven you wrong, come back again and again is not a shameless act then what is it?

Telling and considering our beloved MHI as a horse racer is not an insult then what is it??

zznoor · Post by **zznoor** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:30 am

Dua and Salat are 2 different mode of worship

Dua and Salat are very well described in Wikipedia.

for Salat see
http://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salat

for Dua see

http://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dua

Anybody who considers content unauthentic are free to include their views views in Wiki.

Ismailis would be welcome to justify their Dua as a form of Islamic Salat/Namaaz.