Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Significance of India
kmaherali wrote:
haroon_adel wrote:
I am an Ismaili and I haven't heard the term Das Avatar before. Can you explain what is Das Avatar, please? Pardon my ignorance. You might very well know that Ismailis come from anywhere in the world and not only from India. I believe term Das Avatar is mainly in India, and I am not from India. Please someone correct me if I am wrong, and explain what does this term mean.
Thanks and Ya Ali Madad.
In short ‘Das Avtaar’ literally means ‘Ten Manifestations’. According to Satpanth view of history, the Lord manifested himself as or assumed ten physical forms to bring about major changes of cosmic significance. Their appearances brought about a new phases in history.
Further explanation and allusions are given in this forum at:
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Significance of India
haroon_adel wrote:
Thanks KMaherali for the reference. Can you tell me if there's any Farman of Imam(s) pertaining Das Avatar?
"The philosophy of Ten Incarnations (DAS AVTAAR) should be taken and explained in the light of Islamic principles; also the understanding of ALLAH'S NOOR, whose lineal descent is from even before creation, should be given. These principles, Pir Sadardin during the time of Shri Islam Shah has explained, they should be explained in a similar manner.
(Kalam-e Imam-e Mubin, II, p473).
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Significance of India
kmaherali wrote:
haroon_adel wrote:
Thanks KMaherali for the reference. Can you tell me if there's any Farman of Imam(s) pertaining Das Avatar?
"The philosophy of Ten Incarnations (DAS AVTAAR) should be taken and explained in the light of Islamic principles; also the understanding of ALLAH'S NOOR, whose lineal descent is from even before creation, should be given. These principles, Pir Sadardin during the time of Shri Islam Shah has explained, they should be explained in a similar manner.
(Kalam-e Imam-e Mubin, II, p473).
Do you mean "...during Mawlana Islam Shah", by "Shri Islam Shah"?
Joined: 07 May 2008 Posts: 1139 Location: AUSTIN, TEXAS. U.S.A.
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:00 pm Post subject: It is quoted in Quran as ' TEN NIGHTS"
Haroon,
It is true that, it is very hard to digest 'DAS AVTAAR" theory for those peoples, who do not have much knowledge about our religion and Hindu religion and do not have much knowledge about the evolution. First of all they get shock when they read or listen the Hindu names and strange incarnation births of some avataars.
There is one waez available on Das Avtaar by Rai Abu Ali, also
there are 3 ginans available composed by Pir Sadardin, Pir Imamshah and pir Shams, find it and read it if you can, but as I told above that it is very hard to digest the story, if you compare the theory with Hindu beliefs, Hindu names and strange characters like animal, bird, half lion and half human being of avataars.
Mowlana Sultan Mohammad shah once instructed the missionaries to explain the Das Avatar theory with Islamic principal.
As per the Rai abu Ali it is also quoted in Quran but not the word 'DAS AVATAR' but Allah mention as "TEN NIGHTS" interpreters has different view and understanding on ten nights, no body's interpretation matches with other interpreter.
Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:50 am Post subject: Re: It is quoted in Quran as ' TEN NIGHTS"
agakhani wrote:
Haroon,
It is true that, it is very hard to digest 'DAS AVTAAR" theory for those peoples, who do not have much knowledge about our religion and Hindu religion and do not have much knowledge about the evolution. First of all they get shock when they read or listen the Hindu names and strange incarnation births of some avataars.
There is one waez available on Das Avtaar by Rai Abu Ali, also
there are 3 ginans available composed by Pir Sadardin, Pir Imamshah and pir Shams, find it and read it if you can, but as I told above that it is very hard to digest the story, if you compare the theory with Hindu beliefs, Hindu names and strange characters like animal, bird, half lion and half human being of avataars.
Mowlana Sultan Mohammad shah once instructed the missionaries to explain the Das Avatar theory with Islamic principal.
As per the Rai abu Ali it is also quoted in Quran but not the word 'DAS AVATAR' but Allah mention as "TEN NIGHTS" interpreters has different view and understanding on ten nights, no body's interpretation matches with other interpreter.
Thank you Agakhani for the info. I am just sometimes thinking that since Ismailis are coming from all over the world, and therefore brings a rich diverse culture along with them. However, our base of religion is the same. We believe in the same principles. I personaly think that cultural values shouldn't shadow religious aspects. Please correct me if I am wrong.
And to Shams brother: I have never said anything about changing any Farman. It's simply how your mis-interpretation. During different times, Imams has been in different countries and parts of the world; and hence, giving most of the Farmans to local murids in their local languages. So, coming back to my original question. Since in our Du'a it's mentioned as "Mawlana Islam Shah" and not "Shri Islam Shah", I personaly would say Mawlana Islam Shah. I totally understand that the meaning is the same. And by that, I don't mean to change anything. Who am I to talk about changing the holy Farman? Or who are you to talk about chaning the holy Farman, either? So, please don't mis-interpret and creat unnecessary noise where there's none.
As per many hadiths India (Ceylon) was the place of Adam's descent to earth after expulsion from paradise. On mountain peak of Sri Lanka there is massive foot print, which is believed to be of Adam. Ghulam Ali Azad of Bilgram, who had written biographical works on Mughals mention in his treatise "The coral rosary of Indian antiquities" that India was the first site of revelation, the first mosque on the earth and using sufi mystical concept Adam described India as the first place where the eternal light of Muhammad manifested in Adam whereas Arabia is the place where it found its final expression in the physical form of Prophet Muhammad. The black stone was descended with Adam. Since it was India that Adam first exercised the authority that God gave humanity over earth it has unique status of being the first place on earth where human vice regency was established. (Source: Religions of India in practice by Donald S. Lopez, Jr)
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