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Homosexuality
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Akbar_Gillani



Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:32 am    Post subject: Homosexuality Reply with quote

What is the position of ISLAM and ISMAILI on the HOMOSEXUALITY and how is that position justified?

Is there any reference of the matter in GINANS?
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2060
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:11 am    Post subject: HOMOSEXUALITY Reply with quote

In ginan, I don't know homosexuality is mentioned or not but yes it is quoted in Quran and Hadith many times, here is the references of Quranic ayats in which you can read on homosexuality (references 7:80-84, 11:77-83, 21:74, 22:43, 26:165-175, 27:56-59, and 29:27-33).

It is quoted haram in Quran, if it was not haram then Allahtala would not had destroyed "Kaum" of Prophet Lut (PUH).

What is position in Islam about homosexuality right now? tough question to answer brother, but many Muslims are against homosexuality that is for sure.
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shiraz.virani



Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 1257

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very beautifully explained by brother agakhani.....Homosexuality is a sin in islam.....and ismailism is a sub sect of islam, hence there is no room of homosexuality in ismailism either.

Some people blame that they have been like this by birth...I totally disagree with that because what they forget is we human beings are given FREEWILL......it is us that decide what we want and how we want......but yet sometimes we blame it on god !
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salimamotani



Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shiraz.virani wrote:
Very beautifully explained by brother agakhani.....Homosexuality is a sin in islam.....and ismailism is a sub sect of islam, hence there is no room of homosexuality in ismailism either.

Some people blame that they have been like this by birth...I totally disagree with that because what they forget is we human beings are given FREEWILL......it is us that decide what we want and how we want......but yet sometimes we blame it on god !


shiraz i am in the medical field and yes their is a chemical inbalance in the body. Did you know that lots of babies in the mother womb develop both males and females part? the doctor now a days can go in and correct this and hence we dont see too many babies that are born with both parts(if doctor catches it that is) but in some 3rd world countries this is just not possible.

Also with that being said the thought of being gay is not a sin but the action it self is a sin
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19795

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muslim alliance derails UN's gay rights resolution

Andrew Osborn
The Guardian, Friday 25 April 2003 02.21 BST
Article history

A UN vote on homosexual human rights was yesterday derailed at the last minute by an alliance of disapproving Muslim countries.

The UN had been due to vote on the matter for the first time in its almost 60-year history, but five Muslim countries delayed the vote until today and introduced amendments designed to kill it off.

The amendments remove all references to discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, and render the resolution meaningless.

UN sources said Pakistan, Egypt, Libya, Saudi Arabia and Malaysia were doing everything they could to stop the resolution. "I suspect they want to stall as much as possible and lobby other countries to win support for their amendments," said a source.

The historic resolution on "human rights and sexual orientation" was originally tabled by Brazil at the UN commission on human rights, in Geneva, with the support of 19 other countries including Britain. It calls on all UN member states to promote and protect the human rights "of all persons regardless of their sexual orientation".

But the sentiments are anathema to many UN states; almost half outlaw gay sexual relations and more than 70 countries keep a total ban on homosexuality - in some cases it is punished by death.

The British gay rights campaigner, Peter Tatchell, said: "The vote has been derailed and delayed by Islamic fundamentalist states where gay people are either jailed, flogged or beheaded."

He said those countries' records of gay human rights abuses showed why the resolution was urgently needed.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/apr/25/gayrights.andrewosborn
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19795

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UN backs gay rights for first time ever

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/la-fgw-un-gay-rights-20110619,0,1992659,print.story

The UN gay rights resolution expressed "grave concern at acts of violence and discrimination, in all regions of the world, committed against individuals because of their sexual orientation and gender identity."

From the Associated Press

12:51 PM EDT, June 18, 2011

The United Nations endorsed the rights of gay, lesbian and transgender people for the first time ever Friday, passing a resolution hailed as historic by the U.S. and other backers and decried by some African and Muslim countries.

The declaration was cautiously worded, expressing "grave concern" about abuses because of sexual orientation and commissioning a global report on discrimination against gays.

But activists called it an important shift on an issue that has divided the global body for decades, and they credited the Obama administration's push for gay rights at home and abroad.

"This represents a historic moment to highlight the human rights abuses and violations that lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people face around the world based solely on who they are and whom they love," U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said in a statement.

Following tense negotiations, members of the Geneva-based U.N. Human Rights Council narrowly voted in favor of the declaration put forward by South Africa, with 23 votes in favor and 19 against.

Backers included the U.S., the European Union, Brazil and other Latin American countries.


Those against included Russia, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria and Pakistan. China, Burkina Faso and Zambia abstained, Kyrgyzstan didn't vote and Libya was suspended from the rights body earlier.

The resolution expressed "grave concern at acts of violence and discrimination, in all regions of the world, committed against individuals because of their sexual orientation and gender identity."

More important, activists said, it also established a formal U.N. process to document human rights abuses against gays, including discriminatory laws and acts of violence. According to Amnesty International, consensual same-sex relations are illegal in 76 countries worldwide, while harassment and discrimination are common in many more.

"Today's resolution breaks the silence that has been maintained for far too long," said John Fisher of the gay rights advocacy group ARC International.

The White House in a statement strongly backed the declaration.

"This marks a significant milestone in the long struggle for equality, and the beginning of a universal recognition that (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender) persons are endowed with the same inalienable rights -- and entitled to the same protections -- as all human beings."

The resolution calls for a panel discussion next spring with "constructive, informed and transparent dialogue on the issue of discriminatory laws and practices and acts of violence against" gays, lesbians and transgender people.

The prospect of having their laws scrutinized in this way went too far for many of the council's 47-member states.

"We are seriously concerned at the attempt to introduce to the United Nations some notions that have no legal foundation," said Zamir Akram, Pakistan's envoy to the U.N. in Geneva, speaking on behalf of the Organization of the Islamic Conference.

Nigeria claimed the proposal went against the wishes of most Africans. A diplomat from the northwest African state of Mauritania called the resolution "an attempt to replace the natural rights of a human being with an unnatural right."

Boris Dittrich of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender rights program at Human Rights Watch said it was important for the U.S. and Western Europe to persuade South Africa to take the lead on the resolution so that other non-Western countries would be less able to claim the West was imposing its values.

At the same time, he noted that the U.N. has no enforcement mechanism to back up the resolution. "It's up to civil society to name and shame those governments that continue abuses," Dittrich said.

The Obama administration has been pushing for gay rights both domestically and internationally.

In March, the U.S. issued a nonbinding declaration in favor of gay rights that gained the support of more than 80 countries at the U.N. In addition, Congress recently repealed the ban on gays openly serving in the military, and the Obama administration said it would no longer defend the constitutionality of the U.S. law that bars federal recognition of same-sex marriage.

The vote in Geneva came at a momentous time for the gay rights debate in the U.S. Activists across the political spectrum were on edge Friday as New York legislators considered a bill that would make the state the sixth -- and by far the biggest -- to allow same-sex marriage.

Asked what good the U.N. resolution would do for gays and lesbians in countries that opposed the resolution, U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary Daniel Baer said it was a signal "that there are many people in the international community who stand with them and who support them, and that change will come."

"It's a historic method of tyranny to make you feel that you are alone," he said. "One of the things that this resolution does for people everywhere, particularly LGBT people everywhere, is remind them that they are not alone."

Copyright © 2011, Los Angeles Times
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From_Alamut



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 666

PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shiraz.virani wrote:
Very beautifully explained by brother agakhani.....Homosexuality is a sin in islam.....and ismailism is a sub sect of islam, hence there is no room of homosexuality in ismailism either.

Some people blame that they have been like this by birth...I totally disagree with that because what they forget is we human beings are given FREEWILL......it is us that decide what we want and how we want......but yet sometimes we blame it on god !


True saying ... If these retarded people believe that they have born like that but can I say I was born as a theft, nah that is impossible. These people are under spell of Satan and become the cursed when they believe that they are born like this. God forbid that such negative thing be allow in my community and may they all perish.
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shiraz.virani



Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 1257

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
True saying ... If these retarded people believe that they have born like that but can I say I was born as a theft, nah that is impossible. These people are under spell of Satan and become the cursed when they believe that they are born like this. God forbid that such negative thing be allow in my community and may they all perish.


Well these days bro they have come up with new name BI-CURIOUS icon_lol.gif ....Bi-Curious are those who dont wanna openly say/admit that they are attracted to same sex
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2060
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Well these days bro they have come up with new name BI-CURIOUS


And perhaps in next few years they will come up with another name for homosexuality, whatever name they find for homosexuality! it not going to change, if you do it it is sin no matter whatever name you give it and it is against the Islam that is bottom line.
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2060
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey hey lozar, not all, I am against it read my any posts and I bet you that you won't find any where that I promote it, it is a sin bro below are some example from my post for quick reference:-
Quote:
It is quoted haram in Quran, if it was not haram then Allahtala would not had destroyed "Kaum" of Prophet Lut (PUH).

Quote:
if you do it it is sin no matter whatever name you give it and it is against the Islam that is bottom line.


Indeed, it is sad that some Ismailis are also involve in this bad habit but we can do nothing to stop them cuz every one has their own choice and freedom to do right or wrong deeds
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lozar



Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

agakhani wrote:
Hey hey lozar, not all, I am against it read my any posts and I bet you that you won't find any where that I promote it, it is a sin bro below are some example from my post for quick reference:-
Quote:
It is quoted haram in Quran, if it was not haram then Allahtala would not had destroyed "Kaum" of Prophet Lut (PUH).

Quote:
if you do it it is sin no matter whatever name you give it and it is against the Islam that is bottom line.


Indeed, it is sad that some Ismailis are also involve in this bad habit but we can do nothing to stop them cuz every one has their own choice and freedom to do right or wrong deeds


Dear Agakhani, your point is clear about the subject and I fully agree with your viewpoint. I also didn't mention that you are promoting it.

I just posted a link to a webpage where the subject is discussed and page is named "Ismaili Queers". I found it very sad because one thing is when ppl practice it, which as you sad is a sin, but even worse is when people demonstrate and promote it in the name of a certain faith like Ismaili without having a sound knowledge about the stand of the faith on this regard. To the outsiders it will imply that homosexuality is ok in our faith I think.

My post was deleted, probable for pasting the link for which I apologize.
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2060
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for clarification, I also read that link posted by you, which is deleted now.
By the way, I totally agree with your concern that some peoples are using Ismaili name in wrong places where it should be not used in any manner but unfortunately you, me, admin and Shiraz can't do any thing to stop them these peoples are in every religion and they are doing the same thing using their religion name for that sin even in Islam too.
This bad habit spreading so fast in the world that it is now knowing door in India and Pakistan too, where most peoples were unaware about homosexuality not long ago and they used to consider it as a big sin but now a days it is there.
If you read our ginans that you may know that these and many other sins will be spread very fast as closer as we go to Zahurat.
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shiraz.virani



Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 1257

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I think we all can do something about it....the best way is to write to your local council about this issue, make them aware of what you feel is going on..and as per their job they'll forward your letter/message to regional and then national council
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2060
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your idea is not bad, however I don't think local council would like to involve in this matter but let think just for a second that local council involve in this matter then what about National council? I don't think higher authorities and N.C. will like involve in it.
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shiraz.virani



Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 1257

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Your idea is not bad, however I don't think local council would like to involve in this matter but let think just for a second that local council involve in this matter then what about National council? I don't think higher authorities and N.C. will like involve in it.


Agakhani bhai , katre katre se samundar banta hai... if every individual from every corner writes on this issue and how serious this issue is then the local council will have to forward this message to regional and regional to national and so on.

Plus nagib bhai loves the president of LIF [Shafiq Sachedina]

icon_smile.gif icon_lol.gif icon_wink.gif
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5939

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Officially the President of LIF is not Sachedina, it is Lakhani but Sachedina may be the "de-facto" president and more in the mind of many.
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Magneto



Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the term "homosexual" is the invention of the Capitalist society of the West to make some money from people who are SICK. And i literally mean it. They are Ill. A friend of mine in this thread has argued that it is the chemical imbalance in their body and alot of children have the tendency to be born with both sexes and doctors do the correction.
So let me tell you about chemical imbalance. Lets hear from Wiki

"Chemical imbalance is one hypothesis about the cause of mental illness. Other causes that are debated include psychological and social causes."

You can search medical books and find somewhat similar definition of it.

So the chemical balance is the cause of Mental Illness. So how come so many people are becoming mentally ill???????

Thats the questions you have to ask yourself.


People talking about science (as we see it today), do not know how much politicized it has become. The politicized science behind the uprising of homosexuality cannot boast of convincing results in favor of this behavior, and scientists working in this field are well aware that the conclusion to this study has still a long way to go

So if A govt. of xyz country thinks it is ok to have sex with the same SEX then we would agree??????
So if a govt. of xyz country thinks it is ok to eat animal shit then we would agree?????

Come on what is wrong with you guys? The so called homos are no different from us. all they need is some mental health attention. They are not even natural. because one of the properties of a living organism is that
It is able to reproduce itself. Do they have any organ different from a man or woman? It is a mere feeling of one. We all get different kinds of feelings don we?


Think. Get out of the Hype.
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shiraz.virani



Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 1257

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gays ...by Ahmad Deedat [FUNNY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5lX96qH4bQ&feature=relmfu
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19795

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

13 September 2012 Last updated at 19:19 ET

Uganda charges British producer David Cecil over gay play
David Cecil stands in a court cell in Kampala, Uganda, 13 September 2012. David Cecil face a two-year jail sentence if convicted

The authorities in Uganda have charged a British theatre producer, David Cecil, for staging a play about the condition of gay people in the country.

He appeared in court accused of "disobeying lawful orders", because the play The River and the Mountain was performed without authorisation.

Mr Cecil was denied bail. He faces two years in jail if convicted.

The Ugandan parliament is considering legislation aimed at increasing penalties for homosexual acts.

The play - the main character of which is a gay businessman killed by his own employees - was performed at two theatres in the Ugandan capital, Kampala, last month.

Homosexual acts are illegal in Uganda and gay people have faced physical attacks and social rejection.

An anti-gay bill imposing life sentences on those convicted of homosexual acts was re-tabled in parliament earlier this year.

It was first introduced in 2009 but never debated - and the MP backing the legislation says a clause proposing the death penalty will be dropped.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19595265
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muslim Scholar on How Islam Really Views Homosexuality

Jonathan AC Brown is the Alwaleed bin Talal chair of Islamic Civilization in the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown U., and associate director of the Alwaleed bin Talal Center for Muslim Christian Understanding. His books include “Misquoting Muhammad: The Challenge and Choices of Interpreting the Prophet’s Legacy” (Oneworld, 2014).

I’ll be conservative: There is a lot of misinformation about Islam in the media. A religion of some 1.5 billion people around the world, people who wake up every morning to the same hopes and anxieties as Americans, is boiled down to images of barbarity.

I sometimes tell my students that Islam is Judaism Redux — bigger cast, bigger budget. Like Judaism, questions of right and wrong are conceived of more in the idiom of law than in a more abstract sense of principles. Like Judaism, Islamic law (Shariah) has been developed by a clerical class that has always been more scholars than priests. Like Judaism, these Muslim scholars (ulama) have derived the Shariah from a core written revelation, the Quran (analogous to the Torah of Moses), read through the prism of an originally oral scripture, the Prophet Muhammad’s precedent (analogous to the oral Torah inherited by the rabbis), a process added to and influenced by the ulama’s own methods of reasoning, interpretation and their cultural assumptions.

Also like Judaism, the Shariah is first and foremost concerned with questions of proper worship, ritual purity, prohibited or permitted foods, sacred times and sacred places. Only then does it expand to encompass areas like contracts, property, marriage, inheritance, civil and criminal law.

When looking at the issue of gay marriage, two main features of the Shariah are most pertinent. First, the Shariah is law. It is concerned primarily with actions as opposed to emotions or wishes. Second, marriage in the Shariah is not a sacrament. Stripped of all the cultural accretions Muslims have added on, and minus the obviously crucial elements of love and companionship, marriage is nothing more than — literally — a contract between a man and a woman in which the man provides the woman with financial support in return for exclusive sexual access. It’s a contract that makes sex and reproduction legal in the eyes of God and legitimate in the eyes of society. Since marriage is a contract premised on vaginal intercourse and financial obligation between a man and a woman, same-sex couples could not engage in one. They could construct an arrangement for inheritance and shared property that mimicked marriage, but it would not be marriage.

The focus on actions in the Shariah means that desires or inclinations have no legal substance. The Shariah doesn’t have a position on homosexual desire. Indeed, it can be quite normal. Like ancient Athenians, classical Muslim scholars and litterateurs regularly marveled over the beauty of young boys. Heirs to the Greeks, Muslim scholars found it expectable that men would be attracted to young boys or beautiful males, since they manifested the same feminine beauty as women. Many Muslim scholars even prohibited men from gazing at beautiful young boys, and encouraged parents to dress such children in veils when in public.

But the Shariah does have a clear position on sexual acts. All sexual contact between unmarried men and women is forbidden. Sexual contact less than vaginal intercourse is punishable by the judge’s discretion. Based on the Quran, vaginal intercourse between an unmarried couple is punishable with 100 lashes.

The Quran deals explicitly with Sodomy (Liwat, named after Lot and his people). The holy book recounts the story of Sodom several times, condemning its people’s overall immorality, and specifically criticizing its men for “going to men out of desire instead of to women.” Sodomy, understood as anal sex, was thus prohibited by the consensus of Muslim scholars (Muhammad’s condemnation of anal sex with wives added hetero anal sex to this as well). Muslim scholars set the punishment for anal sex between men as anywhere from a relatively light one at the judge’s discretion (since Sodomy could not result in illegitimate children), to the same punishment as fornication (based on analogy to hetero-sex), to execution (based on a command from Muhammad of disputed authenticity).

Because sexual contact between women does not involve penetration with a penis, it never received the same legal categorization as Liwat. Called Sihaq (‘grinding’), it was prohibited under the general rule against sexual contact outside marriage.

The issue of gay marriage in America is a tough one for Muslims. On one hand, it’s nigh impossible to construct an argument by which sexual contact between men, let alone anal sex, is considered permissible in God’s eyes. On the other hand, attempts to ban the Shariah in the U.S. threaten Muslims’ ability to have their own marriage contracts. Like gays, they want to be able to define marriage free from majoritarian cultural biases. So many Muslims are willing to support the rights of other Americans to shape marriage according to their particular beliefs. Muslims expect their beliefs and relationships to be respected in return.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/muslim-scholar-islam-really-views-homosexuality-193012149.html
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Does Islam Say About Being Gay?

ISTANBUL — On June 29, Turkey’s 12th Gay Pride Parade was held on Istanbul’s crowded Istiklal Avenue. Thousands marched joyfully carrying rainbow flags until the police began dispersing them with water cannons. The authorities, as has become their custom since the Gezi Park protests of June 2013, once again decided not to allow a demonstration by secular Turks who don’t fit into their vision of the ideal citizen.

More worrying news came a week later when posters were put up in Ankara with a chilling instruction: “If you see those carrying out the People of Lot’s dirty work, kill the doer and the done!” The “People of Lot” was a religious reference to gays, and the instruction to kill them on sight was attributed to the Prophet Muhammad. The group that put the posters up, the so-called Islamic Defense Youth, defended its message by asserting: “What? Are you offended by the words of our prophet?!”

All of this suggests that both Turkey and the Muslim world need to engage in some soul-searching when it comes to tolerance for their gay compatriots.

Of course this intolerance is not exclusive to either Turks or Muslims. According to the International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association, Turkey scores slightly better on measures of gay rights when compared with some nearby Christian-majority nations such as Russia, Armenia and Ukraine. Indeed, Turkey’s secular laws don’t penalize sexual orientation, and some out-of-the-closet L.G.B.T. icons have long been popular as artists, singers or fashion designers. Among them are two of the most popular Turkish entertainers of the past half-century: The late Zeki Muren was flamboyantly gay and the singer Bulent Ersoy is famously transsexual. Their eccentricity has apparently added to their popularity.

But beyond the entertainment industry, the traditional mainstream Islamic view on homosexuality produces intolerance in Turkey toward gays and creates starker problems in Muslim nations that apply Shariah. In Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan or Afghanistan, homosexuality is a serious offense that can bring imprisonment, corporal punishment or even the death penalty. Meanwhile, Islamic State militants implement the most extreme interpretation of Shariah by throwing gays from rooftops.

At the heart of the Islamic view on homosexuality lies the biblical story of Sodom and Gomorrah, which is narrated in the Quran, too. According to scripture, the Prophet Lot had warned his people of “immorality,” for they did “approach men with desire, instead of women.” In return, the people warned by Lot tried to expel their prophet from the city, and even tried to sexually abuse the angels who came down to Lot in the guise of men. Consequently, God destroyed the people of Lot with a colossal natural disaster, only to save the prophet and a few fellow believers.

The average conservative Muslim takes this story as a justification to stigmatize gays, but there is an important question that deserves consideration: Did the people of Lot receive divine punishment for being homosexual, or for attacking Lot and his heavenly guests?

The even more significant nuance is that while the Quran narrates this divine punishment for Sodom and Gomorrah, it decrees no earthly punishment for homosexuality — unlike the Old Testament, which clearly decrees that homosexuals “are to be put to death.”

Medieval Islamic thinkers inferred an earthly punishment by considering homosexuality as a form of adultery. But significant names among them, such as the eighth-century scholar Abu Hanifa, the founder of the popular Hanafi school of jurisprudence, argued that since a homosexual relationship did not produce offspring with an unknown father, it couldn’t be considered adultery.

The real Islamic basis for punishing homosexuality is the hadiths, or sayings, attributed to the Prophet Muhammad. (The same is true for punishments on apostasy, heresy, impiety, or “insults” of Islam: None come from the Quran; all are from certain hadiths.) But the hadiths were written down almost two centuries after the prophet lived, and their authenticity has been repeatedly questioned — as early as the ninth century by the scholar Imam Nesai — and they can be questioned anew today. Moreover, there is no record of the prophet actually having anyone punished for homosexuality.

Such jurisprudential facts might help Muslims today to develop a more tolerant attitude toward gays, as some progressive Islamic thinkers in Turkey, such as Ihsan Eliacik, are encouraging. What is condemned in the story of Lot is not sexual orientation, according to Mr. Eliacik, but sexual aggression. People’s private lives are their own business, he argues, whereas the public Muslim stance should be to defend gays when they are persecuted or discriminated against — because Islam stands with the downtrodden.

It is also worth recalling that the Ottoman Caliphate, which ruled the Sunni Muslim world for centuries and which the current Turkish government claims to emulate, was much more open-minded on this issue. Indeed, the Ottoman Empire had an extensive literature of homosexual romance, and an accepted social category of transvestites. The Ottoman sultans, arguably, were social liberals compared with the contemporary Islamists of Turkey, let alone the Arab World.

Despite such arguments, the majority of Muslims are likely to keep seeing homosexuality as something sinful, if public opinion polls are any indication. Yet those Muslims who insist on condemning gays should recall that according to Islam, there are many sins, including arrogance, which the Quran treats as among the gravest moral transgressions. For Turks and other Muslims, it could be our own escape from the sin of arrogance to stop stigmatizing others for their behavior and focus instead on refining ourselves.

Mustafa Akyol is the author of “Islam Without Extremes: A Muslim Case for Liberty.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/29/opinion/mustafa-akyol-what-does-islam-say-about-being-gay.html?emc=edit_ty_20150728&nl=opinion&nlid=45305309&_r=0
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Zane68



Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:16 pm    Post subject: People spreading rumours Reply with quote

I am very open minded and easy to get along with.

Recently I've found that some "important" people in our community have spread rumours about me.

I am not gay but these "important" people have been telling a lot of people that I am gay.

There was mention of a database and I was told this wasn't the database that was used to help spread the rumours.

The main person who has been spreading the rumours has a questionable past and just as questionable present.

People are asking me questions so the rumours have gotten around.

Any thoughts. Oh an while we are on the topic....I like moonlit walks at the beach ......okay I had to do it.

Thanks all.
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5939

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are two kind of people: those who do not understand that rumours can destroy lives and those who understand it and do it on purpose. Those who listen to rumours and those who spread rumours are as guilty as those who start it.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19795

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An Open Letter To American Muslims on Same-Sex Marriage

To Our Fellow American Muslims,

Hey there. It’s two of your brothers. We’re writing to you about the Supreme Court’s decision to legalize gay marriage in all fifty states. The good news is that a whopping 42% of you support marriage equality, as do both of our Muslim elected officials in the United States Congress. One even serves as vice chair of the LGBT Equality Caucus! There are many faithful gay and lesbian Muslims in the US and we love and support all of them.

At the same time, many of you are scandalized by the ruling (we know because you keep tweeting about it), and many more of you are equally perturbed but have chosen to keep it to yourself. With all the rainbow-flag waving and self-congratulatory pats on the back this country is giving itself right now, you don’t need another reason for Americans to dislike you.

Sure Rick Santorum and Mike Huckabee can call the Supreme Court decision the precursor to the End of Days and the final battle of Armageddon. But if you try saying something like that on TV you may end up in Guantanamo. So you’re staying quiet. You may not like the Supreme Court’s decision but you’re willing to tolerate it.

We understand where you’re coming from. Being Muslim in America is not easy. On the one hand you’re a part of mainstream culture. You’re a Warriors fan. You listen to Kanye. You watch Game of Thrones. You even went to the office Christmas party and sang Silent Night!

On the other hand, you want to stay true to your faith and traditions: You go to the mosque and send your kids to Islamic school, fast during Ramadan, and swap Turkey bacon on your BLT, all in an attempt to establish a firm Muslim identity in a non-Muslim country.

But now that same-sex marriage is legal in America, it’s shaking up your faith. You’re afraid of the future and what this could mean for your kids. You recognize the growing acceptance of gay rights, but personally you just can’t bring yourself to embrace the shift. You may feel okay with having gay acquaintances or coworkers. You may even agree that being gay doesn’t disqualify you from also being a Muslim. But privately, you still feel like the LGBT community is a living contradiction to what you were brought up to believe.

But here’s the thing. When you are an underrepresented minority—whether Muslim, African American, female, etc.—democracy is an all or nothing business. You fight for everyone’s rights (and the operative word here is “fight”), or you get none for yourself. Democracy isn’t a buffet. You can’t pick and choose which civil liberties apply to which people. Either we are all equal, or the whole thing is just a sham.

We Muslims are already a deeply marginalized people in mainstream American culture. More than half of Americans have a negative view of us. One-third of Americans—that’s more than one hundred million people—want us to carry special IDs so that they can easily identify us as Muslim. We shouldn’t be perpetuating our marginalization by marginalizing others. Rejecting the right to same-sex marriage, but then expecting empathy for our community’s struggle, is hypocritical.

Think about the way people look at your hijabi sister or your bearded brother when they walk through the mall. Think about the grumbles and stares you get at airports. Think about the vitriol that’s spewed on you by your own elected political leaders. That’s how your LGBT brothers and sisters feel every day of their lives. Are you okay with that?

We don’t know about you, but our faith teaches us to care for the weak and the marginalized, the poor and dispossessed, those who are trampled underfoot, those who are persecuted—no matter who they are, no matter what they believe, no matter who they choose to love.

Believers, stand firm for God, be witnesses for justice. Never allow the hatred of people to prevent you from being just. Be just, for this is closest to righteousness (Quran 5:icon_cool.gif.

It doesn’t get any clearer than that.

You may think LGBT rights is a new conversation, something that’s only recently come into contact with modern Islamic thought, but trust us, it’s not. Challenging the status quo for the betterment of society is one of the very foundations on which Islam was built.

No one is asking you to change your beliefs. If you feel your faith tells you that homosexuality is haram, fine. We disagree with your interpretation, but you’re entitled to it.

Ain’t America grand?

But if you can’t find it in your heart to accept gays on principle, think about the country you want to live in. After all, the constitution that just ensured the rights of LGBT communities is the same constitution that protects our mosques and community centers, that keeps our Islamic schools open, that allows us equal rights and privileges in the face of overwhelming hatred and bigotry from our fellow Americans. You can’t celebrate one without the other.

That’s why it’s not enough to simply “tolerate” the Supreme Court decision. Tolerating another community only stirs up concealed fear toward the marginalized and apathy toward the political process. As minorities we don’t have the luxury to have either of those emotions. We have to do more than tolerate. We have to embrace. We have to fight for the right of others to live their lives as freely as we want to live ours.

Bottom line is this: standing up for marginalized communities, even when you disagree with them, is not just the right thing to do, it’s the Muslim thing to do. Remember that whole God is merciful and compassionate thing? That extends to all people, not just those who are straight.

Celebrate. Don’t tolerate. Love really does win.

Yours Truly,

Reza Aslan and Hasan Minhaj
http://religiondispatches.org/an-open-letter-to-american-muslims-on-same-sex-marriage/
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19795

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuwait: ‘Morals Committee’ claims to have deported 76 gay men this year

The head of a “morals committee” announced that Kuwait has “deported 76 homosexuals and shut down 22 massage parlours this year,” reports Gulf News.

"During the raids, the committee members found and seized sex toys, women’s underwear and make up used by the men.

“We have a zero-tolerance policy towards any morally objectionable activities and we will not be lenient with anyone who breaks the rules or puts the health of Kuwaiti citizens and residents at risk,” Al Dhufairi said."

The story quotes a Kuwait University staff member supporting the crackdown:

"We live in a conservative country and, therefore, we should uphold specific morals.”

Homosexuality and cross-dressing are against the law in Kuwait and other Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) countries—Bahrain, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

In Kuwait, convicted homosexuals could face up to 10 years in prison, if the engaged parties are under the age of 21."

http://religiondispatches.org/kuwait-morals-committee-announced-deportation-of-76-gay-men-and-more-in-global-lgbt-recap/?utm_source=Religion+Dispatches+Newsletter&utm_campaign=5701678eca-RD_Daily_Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_742d86f519-5701678eca-84570085
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19795

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Related thread at:

Farman on Homosexuality?

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=59732#59732
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shivaathervedi



Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 1110

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
Related thread at:

Farman on Homosexuality?

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=59732#59732



There is no farman in thread you mentioned. Can you mention that particular Farman on Homo sexuality? Other question;

What Homosexuality has to do with Ismaili Heritage? Is this an Ismaili Tariqa issue?
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Admin



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 5939

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To my knowledge there is no direct Farman on Homosexuality. There may be some on customs and license and freedom and abuse, that can be interpreted as referring to various subjects but I have not seen any.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 19795

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivaathervedi wrote:

Other question;

What Homosexuality has to do with Ismaili Heritage? Is this an Ismaili Tariqa issue?
We are not immune to the influences around us. Hence we have Ismailis who drink, gamble and are homesexuals as well. When we have Ismailis who are homesexuals, it becomes a Tariqa issue.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was once attending a conference by Desmond Tutu and one sentence he said struck me, he said there are so many problems in the world that why should we waste time on what people do in their bedroom.

I think this becomes an issue when people who are homosexuals parade the streets with board which says "Ismaili" then they use and misuse our names in the same way people brand Muslim of "Terrorist" and generalise that they do what they do because they are Muslims!

These are personnal issues which people should not brand as they are "Ismaili Gay and Lesbian". I don't have anything against them but why put the name "Ismaili queers" which would generalised their choice and attempt to label a whole community for their own advantage as an approved community standard which it is not.
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