As pointed out before, the farman our Lord mowlana Hazir Imam is the Quran. As Nabi Muhammad (saw) said him self, the Quran is with Ali (as) and Ali (as) is with the Quran, and they wil not get sepperated until the Day of Judgment (see Ibn Hajar by al-Sawaiq al muhriqah, p.123, for example) . And mowlana Ali (as) said him self that "I am the speaking Quran" when the soldiers of Muawia put copies of the Quran on their lenses.
As for the book the Quran, I honest to God don't know if it's complete. But please keep in mind never to claim that the Quran (the book) isn't complete while talking to other Muslims, you'll get in to trouble for that which isn't to productive when trying to build brigdes between sects of Islam.
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2004 11:06 am Post subject: Building Bridges
schatoor wrote:
But please keep in mind never to claim that the Quran (the book) isn't complete while talking to other Muslims, you'll get in to trouble for that which isn't to productive when trying to build brigdes between sects of Islam.
I think we should build bridges from the premise that anyone who accepts the Shahada is a Muslim. Everything else can vary depending upon cultural, historical, geographical, economic and linguistic backgrounds. This is where pluralism comes into play.
Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:07 pm Post subject: Hazar Imam: in detail
Hi all - I am new to Ismailism and I was wondering what we should believe about Hazar Imam doctrinally - Is there an authoritative Ismaili "statement of beliefs" like the Catholic catechism? For example, to what extent should we believe he is infallible - in relation to deeny matters only or in relation to everything (NB the poll on this website)? In relation to Prophet Muhammad (saw) and Aly, how should we regard him - as superior or equivalent to them? What about his standing in comparison with previous prophets? Assuming he is direct communication with Allah, how much do we know about the nature of that communication? Does he dream inspired dreams or does he converse with angels etc? How much has he told us about the nature of it? I am sorry about having so many questions but I think it is important to understand the deen properly. If anyone could answer all or any of my questions, that would be great!
Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Hazar Imam: in detail
hikmah786 wrote:
Hi all - I am new to Ismailism and I was wondering what we should believe about Hazar Imam doctrinally - Is there an authoritative Ismaili "statement of beliefs" like the Catholic catechism? For example, to what extent should we believe he is infallible - in relation to deeny matters only or in relation to everything (NB the poll on this website)? In relation to Prophet Muhammad (saw) and Aly, how should we regard him - as superior or equivalent to them? What about his standing in comparison with previous prophets? Assuming he is direct communication with Allah, how much do we know about the nature of that communication? Does he dream inspired dreams or does he converse with angels etc? How much has he told us about the nature of it? I am sorry about having so many questions but I think it is important to understand the deen properly. If anyone could answer all or any of my questions, that would be great!
In my opinion the starting point would be to read some of the short articles on Ismailism given in the Library Section under Learn in the site map of this website mentioned on the left of this window. Click Library-> Selected readings. In particular, I would like to suggest that you read the preamble to the constitution which is an authoritative statement about our fundamental beliefs signed by MHI. Also it is important to read the chapter in the Memoirs of Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah titled: "Islam the Religion of my Ancestors". These you will find in the Selected Readings
section with many other articles. I hope this helps.
"What about his standing in comparison with previous prophets? Assuming he is direct communication with Allah, how much do we know about the nature of that communication? Does he dream inspired dreams or does he converse with angels etc? How much has he told us about the nature of it?"
- the Imam has no communication with Angels or God. Rather, the Imam possess Divine Light or Divine Knowledge. He guides the community based on this sacred Knowledge that he possesses.
This Divine Light/Knowledge has been spiritually handed down in direct descent from Hazrat Ali at the time of the Holy Prophet.
- the Imam has no communication with Angels or God. Rather, the Imam possess Divine Light or Divine Knowledge. He guides the community based on this sacred Knowledge that he possesses.
I would say that there is communication but He does not take guidance from them. In Ginans there is mention about Him coming along with the angels. And what about his role as an inteccessor (Shafat). Doesn't it involve a kind of communication with God.
When the leaders of our concil asked Mowlana Hazar Imam if the Quran was tampered with or if anything was missing he said that the Quran which we are reading today, is the same Quran which was read/composed during the time of Phrophet Muhammad. Ofcourse no one will no the TRUE Quran as that is with Hazar Imam. If you didnt already know the incident which happened during the time of Mowlana Ali. After the passing away of the phrophet, all of the people who were righting down the Quran came together and were wanting to put it all together. When Mowlana Ali came Omar who was the 2nd Kalif of Islam told Ali he said go away from here we do not need you here. Mowlana Ali replied he said okay but remember this you will not recive this interpretation of the Quran until the day of Judgement. So as you can see the TRUE Quran is with Hazar Imam and will continue to be with him until the day of Judgement
- the Imam has no communication with Angels or God. Rather, the Imam possess Divine Light or Divine Knowledge. He guides the community based on this sacred Knowledge that he possesses.
I would say that there is communication but He does not take guidance from them.
This seems a very strange thing to say - how can the Imam (subordinate to Allah) not take guidance from him? Did Muhammad (s) and Ali take guidance from Allah? Of course they did! Allah mentions on numerous occasions in the Quran that He alone is the one who grants guidance - to Prophets, Imams and simple people like me too!
In terms of the 'completeness' of the Quran, Muhammad (s) taught his companions the Quran as and when it was revealed to him by the Angel Jibreel. Being illiterate, he taught them (and of course his cousin Ali) orally - "Quran" in Arabic literally means "the recitation". It was Allah's plan that the Arabic of 1400 years ago was at the highest peak of eloquence and it was a society in which it would be quite normal for ordinary people to quote great, lengthy poetry from memory. It was the linguistic brilliance of the Quran that convinced the greatest poets of the age that this must be the word of Allah. Linguistic majesty in an oral tradition of poetry. This is the context of Quranic revelation and, as Islam grew in the years of Prophethood, thousands of people committed the Quran to memory and that number is today in the millions. That is the beauty of the Quran compared with any other holy text from any other religion - if all the copies of the Quran were dumped into the sea, then one would merely need to gather five "huffaz" together (those who have memorised, lit. preserved the Quran), and one could commit a copy to writing within a few hours. This oral tradition is the mechanism chosen by Allah for the preservation of His Word. This is how he has fulfilled (and continues to fulfil) his promise concerning the Quran, that "We will assuredly Guard it from corruption" (15:9).
For a fascinating and erudite refutation of the 'challenges' posed to the Muslim view that the Quran is pristine as it appears today (this being the position of the itha ashari shias, MHI (as quoted recently), and sunnis), see M M Al-Azami, The History of the Quranic Text. Available at Amazon
As Ismailis, taking the words of MHI, we should not take the parochial view and ignore the words that Allah himself chose to guide mankind 1400 years ago. We are lucky to have a modern-day guide, but we should also have an open mind and an open heart in order to try and experience for ourselves the profound impact the direct, unadulterated, chosen words of Allah - in the original - had on the people of Mecca 1400 years ago, and continue to have to this day.
This seems a very strange thing to say - how can the Imam (subordinate to Allah) not take guidance from him? Did Muhammad (s) and Ali take guidance from Allah? Of course they did! Allah mentions on numerous occasions in the Quran that He alone is the one who grants guidance - to Prophets, Imams and simple people like me too!
Before going into details on this issue, I would like to know what is your understanding of prophethood and Imamat. Do you consider prophets and Imams as humanbeings like me and you?
Are you aware that there are 2 aspects to this issue the Zaheri and the Batini. Our views may sound strange to you if you consider this matter from the Zaheri point of view but they are true from the Batini point of view.
Before going into details on this issue, I would like to know what is your understanding of prophethood and Imamat. Do you consider prophets and Imams as humanbeings like me and you?
Whilst not human beings like me and you, they are human beings nevertheless. This is what Allah says in the Quran:
3:144 Muhammad is no more than an apostle (rasool): many were the apostles that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels?
17:94 What kept men back from belief when Guidance came to them, was nothing but this: they said, "Has Allah sent a man (like us) to be (His) Messenger."
That the messengers and prophets were human beings (albeit special ones) is one of the blessings of prophethood. If the messengers had been angels - free from human needs (food, rest, etc) - their example would have been impossible for people to emulate. That they are human beings, who ate, slept, married and fought in battle, showed people that the way of life Allah wants us to lead is indeed possible.
And as for the distinction between zahiri and batini, its importance ought not to be exaggerated. Whatever is zahir (outward) is affected by whatever is batin (on the inside) and vice versa. If I have a high level of iman (the inward), then the natural consequence of that will be manifested in good (outward) actions. If I perform outward actions with no iman, then they will be of no benefit to me.
For example, Muhammad (s) - along with all Muslims from all creeds - fasted in the month of Ramadan. The period of physical, zahiri, fasting was accompanied by batini 'fasting' i.e. preoccupying oneself and one's thoughts with Allah and zikr even more than usual. As we can learn from the prophetic example, it is not sufficient to merely abstain from food whilst continuing to gossip and backbite and lie. Similarly it is not sufficient to preoccupy oneself with zikr and not fast - this is not the way of the prophets. The outward and the inward go hand in hand, and to place too great an emphasis on one over the other results in imbalance.
Prophet Muhammad and Mowla Ali are one .
By terming that they were mortal people like me and you you are ignoring many hadiths,Quranic verses and Farmans and Ginans
Hazrat Muhammad said I and Ali are from same DIVINE LIGHT.
Hazrat Muhammad said face of Ali is face of God.
Ke jeeray bhai chaand na hota sooraj na hota tyaree muhammad naam arsh leekhaya
ke jeeray bhai muhaamad ilahi aad dhani chhe tamee deel mahe karo veechar
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:55 am Post subject: Status of Prophet
Hikmah786, Salaam Alaykum
Your recent post has raised several issues that need to be clarified. First of all it must be realised that Islam is pluralistic with respect to the interpretation of faith. Within this perspective, a Muslim is anyone who professes Shahada. Ours is a Shia interpretation which emphasises the esotric or the batini aspect of faith. This has a bearing upon our understanding of faith which is different than that of the mainsteam Sunni Islam. The following is our understanding in my opinion.
Status of Prophets and Imams
===================
While from the zaheri perspective, prophets need to act and behave as ordinary human beings and set an example to others as pointed out by you correctly with appropriate references from the Quran, from the Batini point of view there are verses that allude to his super human or Divine nature. For example in the beginning of 4th part of our Dua, we allude to his role as an intercessor i.e. "Those who give you allegiance give it but to Allah". How could allegiance to a human being equate to allegiance to Allah unless the human being under consideration was himself Divine. In other verses of the Quran there is mention of "Obey God and obey His messenger". Why would Allah command you to obey an ordinary human being unless there was something extra ordinary about him?
From the esoteric perspective, the institution of prophethood is eternal as alluded in the following verse of the Ginan "Sab Gat Saami Maaro Bhar Pur Bethaa"
ejee pahele dha(n)dhukaar maa(n)he nabee muhammed mustaphaa
sohee guru ja(m)pudeep maa(n)he aayaa ek jeeyo..............20
O momins: In the beginning and in the void, Prophet Muhammed the Chosen was there. It is indeed the same Guide (Peer) who has come to the Indian Subcontinent.
This brings me back to your original feeling of strangeness of the fact that the Imams did not need to be guided by anyone. Consider the following statements.
"We have vested everything worthwhile in the manifest Imam" (2nd Part of Dua)
"The Shias have therefore always held that after the Prophet's death, Divine power, guidance, and leadership manifested themselves in Hazrat Ali as the first Imam or spiritual chief of the devout." (Memoirs of Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah).
"His Noor has indicated to you where and in which direction you must, so as to obtain spiritual and worldly satisfaction." (Farman MHI, 13th Dec , 1964)
Would such an Imam need guidance from anywhere?
The Significance of the Quran
===================
While there has been a need to have basic knowledge and understanding of the Quran in our tradition recently, mainly due to the need to interact with other interpretations within Islam and build bridges with them, it has never been of great importance in our tradition. Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah had told us that the Ginans are a tafsir of the Quran par excellance and in that sense there has never been a need to know the Quran. We have always considered the Ginans as more reliable than the Quran. As a matter of fact as late as in the 1950's and indeed 1960s very few Ismailis knew the contents of the Quran. That did not prevent them from being Muslims.
Zaher and the Batin
=============
It must be realised that according to Shia interpretation of Islam, the principle of Walaya (allegiance and obediance to the Imam) is the foremost. It supercedes all others including fasting in the month of Islam. Indeed there have been times during our history when the Sharia was abrogated in its entirety and yet we are still Muslims today! As Batinis, we attach greater significance to the intention behind the fast as opposed to the actual form of the fast. That kind of fasting is not restricted only during the month of Ramadhan, but it happens through out the year.
Even if Ginans and Farmans are not considered we can not say Muhammad [PBUH] and Ali [A.S] were mortal humans like other as Prophet Muhammad himself said that "My Noor was with every Prophet" and "Ali was in batin with every Prophet"
In book entitled "tareekh ka safar" it is that Once Jibrail ask Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] that whats your age? Prophet [PBUH] said whats your age? Jibrail said there is a star which Shines after every 70,000 years and I have seen it 70,000 times.Prophet Muhammad Said I am that Star.
Hazrat Salman Farsi said that I heard the messenger of Allah saying I myself and Ali were one Light of Allah 14000 years before He created Adam. When Allah created Adam He divided Light into two parts One part is Me and one part Ali.
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