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Pre-Adam
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 647

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 6:10 pm    Post subject: Amaro Deen and Tamaro Deen Reply with quote

Mowlabapa says "shabde shabd ma khubi ane bhed cchupayla cche"

This is what I think.

Pir states Amaro Deen as Pir is our Leader

Shah states Tamaro Deen as Shah is Niranjan Nirakar sabse nyara. He doesn't need us, We need Him.

Next Question

Qayamat and Aakhirat Is there a difference? If so what is it?






HINT: "Tamne Aakhirat joyti hoi to....."
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Amaro Deen and Tamaro Deen Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
Mowlabapa says "shabde shabd ma khubi ane bhed cchupayla cche"

This is what I think.

Pir states Amaro Deen as Pir is our Leader

Shah states Tamaro Deen as Shah is Niranjan Nirakar sabse nyara. He doesn't need us, We need Him.

Next Question

Qayamat and Aakhirat Is there a difference? If so what is it?






HINT: "Tamne Aakhirat joyti hoi to....."


Please quote the relevant farman sr. no. and other details.

In fact in Kalame Imame Mubin everything is explained in detail. If you cannot understand Lord's farman that is because you are not using the intellect. Imam did say that if you do not use your intellect you will not know anything of the ismaili faith.

So when you go on asking and asking and asking despite having the farman available at your end demonstrates and proves that you are not using your intellect. God has given everyone intellect - in fact the root of your intellect is god's intellect. However, if you do not use it - the problem is yours not god's. Wipe out your problem by using your intellect and if i see you again asking questions i will assume you are again not using your intellect and are in the confusion, in which case, as a sharing of knowledge will remind you to use your intellect.
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 11:40 pm    Post subject: Bye Bye Reply with quote

I have noticed that the Admin or Moderator, i.e. Umed, has started deleting my postings judging it from his point of view even though his point of view goes against the farman and the quran, I am no longer interested in posting in the forum.
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 647

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2003 8:31 pm    Post subject: Tum rootha naa karo meri jaan Reply with quote

Stimulation of the Intellect is one of the best ways to enhance it.

If a person asks a question, it doesn't automatically mean they are not using their Intellect.

How are Ideas shared?

How are Discussions started?

Questions stimulate, lectures bore, rudeness turns people off, name calling just makes everyone mad.

Let us learn from this rather than "I'm taking my ball and going home"

Ya Aly Madad.
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 3:36 am    Post subject: Re: Tum rootha naa karo meri jaan Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
Stimulation of the Intellect is one of the best ways to enhance it.

If a person asks a question, it doesn't automatically mean they are not using their Intellect.

How are Ideas shared?

How are Discussions started?

Questions stimulate, lectures bore, rudeness turns people off, name calling just makes everyone mad.

Let us learn from this rather than "I'm taking my ball and going home"

Ya Aly Madad.


When answers are already there and despite this one asks the question means that the person is not using the intellect. Sultan mohd shah farman cannot be wrong. He mentions to know about the faith one should use the intellect else he will not know anything and shamsu you were asking questions and questions though the answers were readily available and you even mentioned reading farman books KIM and so on and so forth - because you do not know about ismaili faith it is clear that you are not using the intellect. Even quran cites that people who did not use the intellect ........

Al-Mulk, or Dominion (LXVII)
(10) They will further say: "Had we but listened or used our intelligence we should not (now) be among the Companions of the Blazing Fire!"
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Guest






PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 3:41 am    Post subject: Re: Amaro Deen and Tamaro Deen Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
shamsu wrote:
Mowlabapa says "shabde shabd ma khubi ane bhed cchupayla cche"

This is what I think.

Pir states Amaro Deen as Pir is our Leader

Shah states Tamaro Deen as Shah is Niranjan Nirakar sabse nyara. He doesn't need us, We need Him.

Next Question

Qayamat and Aakhirat Is there a difference? If so what is it?






HINT: "Tamne Aakhirat joyti hoi to....."


Please quote the relevant farman sr. no. and other details.

In fact in Kalame Imame Mubin everything is explained in detail. If you cannot understand Lord's farman that is because you are not using the intellect. Imam did say that if you do not use your intellect you will not know anything of the ismaili faith.

So when you go on asking and asking and asking despite having the farman available at your end demonstrates and proves that you are not using your intellect. God has given everyone intellect - in fact the root of your intellect is god's intellect. However, if you do not use it - the problem is yours not god's. Wipe out your problem by using your intellect and if i see you again asking questions i will assume you are again not using your intellect and are in the confusion, in which case, as a sharing of knowledge will remind you to use your intellect.


Only those who have knowledge can share it. Shamsu quote a single farman which says an ismaili can share his confusion with another ismaili.
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Guest






PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 3:48 am    Post subject: Re: Tum rootha naa karo meri jaan Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
shamsu wrote:
Stimulation of the Intellect is one of the best ways to enhance it.

If a person asks a question, it doesn't automatically mean they are not using their Intellect.

How are Ideas shared?

How are Discussions started?

Questions stimulate, lectures bore, rudeness turns people off, name calling just makes everyone mad.

Let us learn from this rather than "I'm taking my ball and going home"

Ya Aly Madad.


When answers are already there and despite this one asks the question means that the person is not using the intellect. Sultan mohd shah farman cannot be wrong. He mentions to know about the faith one should use the intellect else he will not know anything and shamsu you were asking questions and questions though the answers were readily available and you even mentioned reading farman books KIM and so on and so forth - because you do not know about ismaili faith it is clear that you are not using the intellect. Even quran cites that people who did not use the intellect ........

Al-Mulk, or Dominion (LXVII)
(10) They will further say: "Had we but listened or used our intelligence we should not (now) be among the Companions of the Blazing Fire!"


Only those who have knowledge can share it. Shamsu quote a single farman which says an ismaili can share his confusion with another ismaili.

In fact during the period of holy prophet muhammad - quran reveals refer to God, etc. ... - whenever there was an argument - allah's message used to make things clear. It did not say refer to another person of your choice. Unless you refer to the proper authority how will you know?
You share your knowledge (and by knowledge I mean the truth) not your confusion.
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 7:48 pm    Post subject: It's OK if you don't know Reply with quote

Ya Aly Madad Ruh-Dost.

I have noticed that when you don't understand the Question or do not know the answer you attack the person asking the question.

Should I presume you have no clue about Aakhirat and Qayamat?

Are you sure you are not projecting { to attribute (one's own ideas, feelings, or characteristics) to other people or to objects} your confusion by accusing almost anyone who posts on this forum.

I hope you are not trying to mess up Admin's website Forums due to some old animus.

You want me to provide you serial numbers of Farmans and you keep on quoting Imam SMS without any references whatsoever.

Why are you in love with USMAN'S QURAN which is incomplete and inaccurate.

Quote the present Imam or Imam SMS or Imam Aly or Ginans.

I have already proven with Imam SMS farman that Quran was for the country of Arabi people.

DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND IMAMS FARMAN ARE THE FINAL WORD.

KIM I Farman 31 Page 80-81

"Tamaro Deen satya cche, TAMARO DEEN PUSTAKO UPERTHI SHARU THAYO NATHI, Parantu tae Mohabbatmathi utpan thayel cche."

"Tamara vastae Ilm cche tae GINAN cche"

"Qurane sharrifnae terso (1300 yrs) varsh thaya cche, TAE MULKAE ARABINI VASTI MAATAE CCHE. "
"GINAN ne saatsau varsh (700 yrs) thaya cche. Tamara maatae GINAN cche tae uper tamae cchalo"

Let us learn from this forum that your Usman's incomplete and inaccurate Quran is no match for Mowla Bapa's Farmans.
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 647

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: It's OK if you don't know Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
Ya Aly Madad Ruh-Dost.

I have noticed that when you don't understand the Question or do not know the answer you attack the person asking the question.

Should I presume you have no clue about Aakhirat and Qayamat?

Are you sure you are not projecting { to attribute (one's own ideas, feelings, or characteristics) to other people or to objects} your confusion by accusing almost anyone who posts on this forum.

I hope you are not trying to mess up Admin's website Forums due to some old animus.

You want me to provide you serial numbers of Farmans and you keep on quoting Imam SMS without any references whatsoever.

Why are you in love with USMAN'S QURAN which is incomplete and inaccurate.

Quote the present Imam or Imam SMS or Imam Aly or Ginans.

I have already proven with Imam SMS farman that Quran was for the country of Arabi people.

DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND IMAMS FARMAN ARE THE FINAL WORD.

KIM I Farman 31 Page 80-81

"Tamaro Deen satya cche, TAMARO DEEN PUSTAKO UPERTHI SHARU THAYO NATHI, Parantu tae Mohabbatmathi utpan thayel cche."

"Tamara vastae Ilm cche tae GINAN cche"

"Qurane sharrifnae terso (1300 yrs) varsh thaya cche, TAE MULKAE ARABINI VASTI MAATAE CCHE. "
"GINAN ne saatsau varsh (700 yrs) thaya cche. Tamara maatae GINAN cche tae uper tamae cchalo"

Let us learn from this forum that your Usman's incomplete and inaccurate Quran is no match for Mowla Bapa's Farmans.


The last one was me
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 12:38 am    Post subject: Re: It's OK if you don't know Reply with quote

shamsu wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Ya Aly Madad Ruh-Dost.

I have noticed that when you don't understand the Question or do not know the answer you attack the person asking the question.

Should I presume you have no clue about Aakhirat and Qayamat?

Are you sure you are not projecting { to attribute (one's own ideas, feelings, or characteristics) to other people or to objects} your confusion by accusing almost anyone who posts on this forum.

I hope you are not trying to mess up Admin's website Forums due to some old animus.

You want me to provide you serial numbers of Farmans and you keep on quoting Imam SMS without any references whatsoever.

Why are you in love with USMAN'S QURAN which is incomplete and inaccurate.

Quote the present Imam or Imam SMS or Imam Aly or Ginans.

I have already proven with Imam SMS farman that Quran was for the country of Arabi people.

DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND IMAMS FARMAN ARE THE FINAL WORD.

KIM I Farman 31 Page 80-81

"Tamaro Deen satya cche, TAMARO DEEN PUSTAKO UPERTHI SHARU THAYO NATHI, Parantu tae Mohabbatmathi utpan thayel cche."

"Tamara vastae Ilm cche tae GINAN cche"

"Qurane sharrifnae terso (1300 yrs) varsh thaya cche, TAE MULKAE ARABINI VASTI MAATAE CCHE. "
"GINAN ne saatsau varsh (700 yrs) thaya cche. Tamara maatae GINAN cche tae uper tamae cchalo"

Let us learn from this forum that your Usman's incomplete and inaccurate Quran is no match for Mowla Bapa's Farmans.


The last one was me


INSTEAD OF REPEATING THINGS OVER AND OVER AGAIN - GO AND REFER TO THE FARMANS OF MAWLANA HAZAR IMAM REGARDING QURAN AND HISTORY. ALSO REFER TO THE FOLLOWING:

September 25, 1964 - Message received on the occassion of All India Religious Conference held by Ismaila Association for India:
--------------------------------
While working through the topics which you must discuss, I am sure you will never forget that our faith is based on thousands of years of history and that we should learn from history and not think our past is of no use now and that it can therefore be rejected, abbreviated or altered.
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 647

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 5:06 am    Post subject: PRACTICE RESTRAINT Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
shamsu wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Ya Aly Madad Ruh-Dost.

I have noticed that when you don't understand the Question or do not know the answer you attack the person asking the question.

Should I presume you have no clue about Aakhirat and Qayamat?

Are you sure you are not projecting { to attribute (one's own ideas, feelings, or characteristics) to other people or to objects} your confusion by accusing almost anyone who posts on this forum.

I hope you are not trying to mess up Admin's website Forums due to some old animus.

You want me to provide you serial numbers of Farmans and you keep on quoting Imam SMS without any references whatsoever.

Why are you in love with USMAN'S QURAN which is incomplete and inaccurate.

Quote the present Imam or Imam SMS or Imam Aly or Ginans.

I have already proven with Imam SMS farman that Quran was for the country of Arabi people.

DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND IMAMS FARMAN ARE THE FINAL WORD.

KIM I Farman 31 Page 80-81

"Tamaro Deen satya cche, TAMARO DEEN PUSTAKO UPERTHI SHARU THAYO NATHI, Parantu tae Mohabbatmathi utpan thayel cche."

"Tamara vastae Ilm cche tae GINAN cche"

"Qurane sharrifnae terso (1300 yrs) varsh thaya cche, TAE MULKAE ARABINI VASTI MAATAE CCHE. "
"GINAN ne saatsau varsh (700 yrs) thaya cche. Tamara maatae GINAN cche tae uper tamae cchalo"

Let us learn from this forum that your Usman's incomplete and inaccurate Quran is no match for Mowla Bapa's Farmans.


The last one was me


INSTEAD OF REPEATING THINGS OVER AND OVER AGAIN - GO AND REFER TO THE FARMANS OF MAWLANA HAZAR IMAM REGARDING QURAN AND HISTORY. ALSO REFER TO THE FOLLOWING:

September 25, 1964 - Message received on the occassion of All India Religious Conference held by Ismaila Association for India:
--------------------------------
While working through the topics which you must discuss, I am sure you will never forget that our faith is based on thousands of years of history and that we should learn from history and not think our past is of no use now and that it can therefore be rejected, abbreviated or altered.



Let us see what else Mowla Bapa said in the SAME FARMAN

Friday, September 25, 1964.

(Message received on the occasion of An India Ismaili Religious Conference held by Ismailia Association for India)

My Dear President,

The following is My message to the All India Religious Conference inauguration.

I send to all My spiritual children participating in the All India Religious Conference, My most affectionate, paternal maternal blessings on this most important occasion.

I am sure that you will all use your knowledge and ability so as to reach conclusions which will be in the best interests of My Jamats of India. The ceremonies and customs which you will be discussing are the backbone of our faith and for this reason, your discussions should be guided by clear thinking, restraint and above all, faith.

While working through the topics which you must discuss, I am sure you will never forget that our faith is based on thousands of years of history and that we should learn from history and not think our past is of no use now and that it can therefore be rejected, abbreviated or altered.

I send to each and everyone of you individually My most affectionate loving blessings and pray for the success of your Conference.

Yours affectionately,

AGA KHAN

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RESTRAINT in the dictionary is defined as follows:

Main Entry: re·straint
Pronunciation: ri-'strAnt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French restrainte, from restraindre
Date: 15th century
1 a : an act of restraining : the state of being restrained b (1) : a means of restraining : a restraining force or influence (2) : a device that restricts movement <a restraint for children riding in cars>
2 : a control over the expression of one's emotions or thoughts

Pronunciation Key

© 2001 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
Merriam-Webster Privacy Policy

I DO NOT WANT MY IMAM TO EVER BE EMBARRASSED OF YOU BY YOUR OBLIVIOUSNESS OF RESTRAINT.
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 647

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You mention: Allah states in the Quran that he created with one word.

Quran reveals that everything is created from the Soul of Allah and not from the Word of Allah. In fact word of Allah is guidance and not a command. For example,


You are saying that the word of Allah is not a command, it is guidance.

So according to you the command of Allah is wordless. What is wrong with your cognition?

Please read your posts again a few times and check them for ERRORS as you have already demonstrated that you do not check them for accuracy by making mistakes like "LAUGHT"

T and H are not even next to each other on the keyboard for you to call it a mistake. You have repeated that ERROR again when addressing Umed.

SO PLEASE CHECK YOUR POST'S FOR ACCURACY. CORRECT YOUR ERRORS. DO THIS FOR YOUR OWN SAKE.
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 647

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 5:43 am    Post subject: BLAZING FIRE Reply with quote

You keep quoting "Blazing Fire"

From your post's it is obvious that you are living in the blazing fire of Anger, Hatred, Disrespect, Rudeness, Insult and Rage.

Recognize that you are already there, the place you keep warning me of.

You live in a place where the Light of Farmans doesn't make any difference and this is very sad.

I pray to my Mowla to Enlighten your heart with his Noor so as to help you live according to the Ethics of Islam. The Spirit of brotherhood, patience, tolerance, peace, restraint, forgiveness etc.

Ya Aly Madad
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shamsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 647

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2003 4:15 am    Post subject: Re: Pre-Adam and subsequent emails Reply with quote

altaf_rupani wrote:
My views in brief:
===========

You mention: Allah states in the Quran that he created with one word.

Quran reveals that everything is created from the Soul of Allah and not from the Word of Allah. In fact word of Allah is guidance and not a command. For example,

Al-Araf, or The Heights
29) Say: "My Lord hath commanded justice; and that ye set your whole selves (to Him) at every time and place of prayer, and call upon Him, making your devotion sincere such as He created you in the beginning, so shall ye return."

By the word of Allah he has commanded justice - but does each and every one live according to the command - no. In fact, Quran mentions so many things, live in peace, go by truth, etc. etc. So, word of allah is not a command but guidance - you either follow it or you do not. and Quran itself demonstrates that there were rumor mongering, people used to do wrong things, etc. even though Allah's word was one should not rumor monger, not do wrong things.

To make matters clear, Quran reveals:

Al-Rad, or Thunder (XIII)
31) Had it been possible for a Quran to cause the mountains to move, or the earth to be torn as under, or the dead to speak, (this Quran would have done so). Nay, but Allah's is the whole command. ==

Light upon Light = Allah's Light is everywhere ---> this seems to fit OK.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ya Aly Madad altaf_rupani

Sometimes I have to use the other persons language to help him understand. Here is something from Usman's Quran, that you seemed enamoured with, which proves Allah's will is his word and he created with his command (which is comprised of words, in case you thought otherwise)

036.079
YUSUFALI: Say, "He will give them life Who created them for the first time! for He is Well-versed in every kind of creation!-
PICKTHAL: Say: He will revive them Who produced them at the first, for He is Knower of every creation,
SHAKIR: Say: He will give life to them Who brought them into existence at first, and He is cognizant of all creation

036.080
YUSUFALI: "The same Who produces for you fire out of the green tree, when behold! ye kindle therewith (your own fires)!
PICKTHAL: Who hath appointed for you fire from the green tree, and behold! ye kindle from it.
SHAKIR: He Who has made for you the fire (to burn) from the green tree, so that with it you kindle (fire).

036.081
YUSUFALI: "Is not He Who created the heavens and the earth able to create the like thereof?" - Yea, indeed! for He is the Creator Supreme, of skill and knowledge (infinite)!
PICKTHAL: Is not He Who created the heavens and the earth Able to create the like of them? Aye, that He is! for He is the All-Wise Creator,
SHAKIR: Is not He Who created the heavens and the earth able to create the like of them? Yea! and He is the Creator (of all), the Knower.

036.082
YUSUFALI: Verily, when He intends a thing, His Command is, "be", and it is!
PICKTHAL: But His command, when He intendeth a thing, is only that He saith unto it: Be! and it is.
SHAKIR: His command, when He intends anything, is only to say to it: Be, so it is.


Are you still going to insist that creation was not from one word?
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roxy



Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2003 5:46 am    Post subject: Re: Pre-Adam and subsequent emails Reply with quote

Creation of Allah - No Allah did not create anything with his word.
---------------------------
You can see there are millions and millions of birth taking place each day - not just human beings, but animals, birds, insects, mud, stone, computers, airoplanes, shoes, snakes, fish, monkeys, lions, tigers, elephants, hundreds of types of insects and what not - and there are just 24 hours in a day - do you think Allah has the time for giving his word to each and every creation ? I do not think so and as far as I am concerned creation is by though and by his will and not by word - more so, since God is one and there are millions of each creation per day and physically God just cannot create millions of things per day in a physical sense by speaking. To add to this creation is at differen places in the world - so do you think god must be doing a lot of running around the world saying BE, BE, BE, .... or he must be saying "BE" an animal in India at so and so place, "BE" a human being in USA at so and so place, "BE" a fish in the water at so and so place - "BE" an egg in Europe at so and so place. How can only BE be sufficient. So here only BE is not sufficient - BE but what BE ?
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