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Current Jug..!!

 
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goldfaizi



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:15 pm    Post subject: Current Jug..!! Reply with quote

Ya Ali Madad,

I was confused before. I was thinking that we are in kaljug. Rai Abu Ali Missionary said in this waez as well manytimes that we are in kaljug. I want to know actually in which jug we are? I think jugs means Ages. Am i right? Let me know about Jugs or ages.

Thanks.
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2060
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:15 am    Post subject: Yes we are in Kaljug Reply with quote

Yes, Rai Abu Ali was right, so do you, we are passing in last and tough Kaljug, there are no more jugs for anybody as per our holy Ginans. My guess is there are more than 7000 years has been passed in Kaljug, current time is FADTAAL VELA" in Kaljug according our great Pirs.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 16845

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There has been a discussion on this issue in this forum at:

Pre-Adam --> time period of jugs and avatar


http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=4616

It would be nice to keep all related items under a single thread for easier future reference.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 16845

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:33 am    Post subject: Re: Yes we are in Kaljug Reply with quote

agakhani wrote:
Yes, Rai Abu Ali was right, so do you, we are passing in last and tough Kaljug, there are no more jugs for anybody as per our holy Ginans. My guess is there are more than 7000 years has been passed in Kaljug, current time is FADTAAL VELA" in Kaljug according our great Pirs.


My interpretation of FADTAAL VELA is that it conveys a sense of 'turning moment'. Pir Hasan Kabirdeen who is referred to the Guru of the FADTAAL VELA, lived around 1500 AD which was closer to phase of evolution/change from ascending Kali Yuga to ascending Duapur Yuga (see my explanation of the Yugas at: http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=4616 )

According to this theory ascending Kali Yuga ended around 1700 AD and now we are in ascending Dua Pur Yuga.
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goldfaizi



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want know that in Dwapur yug there are 2 avatars. I believe that both Avatars is our present imam? Am i right?

If we can calculate, there are 50 % sins now a days in the world as compare with the kalyug. In kalyug in the times of Prophet Mohammad and Hazrat Ali there were 97 1/2 % sins done by people. Atleast we can see that in present age everyone knows that there is GOD, Prophet Mohammad is his prophet. We Ismailies believes that Amirul Mominin is from ALLAH. Religion is there in the world. Due to crisis in all over the world it has given birth to crimes and other sins.
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agakhani



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 2060
Location: TEXAS. U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KMAHERALY,

If I am not mistaking you then according your interpretation this is not KalJug but this is Duapur yug? if this is the your interpretation then I do not beleive it since it is quoted everywhere in ginans that this is Kaljug. Not only our ginans but other religions holy books and peoples also beleive the same.
Please correct me if I misunderstood you.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 16845

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

agakhani wrote:
KMAHERALY,

If I am not mistaking you then according your interpretation this is not KalJug but this is Duapur yug? if this is the your interpretation then I do not beleive it since it is quoted everywhere in ginans that this is Kaljug. Not only our ginans but other religions holy books and peoples also beleive the same.
Please correct me if I misunderstood you.


You are not mistaken, you have correctly understood me. Ginans were composed during the Kaljug and hence references are made of the present time as that of Kaljug.

You are entitled to your interpretation and I am entitled to mine.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 16845

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

goldfaizi wrote:
I want know that in Dwapur yug there are 2 avatars. I believe that both Avatars is our present imam? Am i right?

If we can calculate, there are 50 % sins now a days in the world as compare with the kalyug. In kalyug in the times of Prophet Mohammad and Hazrat Ali there were 97 1/2 % sins done by people. Atleast we can see that in present age everyone knows that there is GOD, Prophet Mohammad is his prophet. We Ismailies believes that Amirul Mominin is from ALLAH. Religion is there in the world. Due to crisis in all over the world it has given birth to crimes and other sins.


The notion of Das Avatar is the manifestation of the Imam in a more universal sense, i.e., to the broader humanity to bring about a significant impact or change. For the Jamat, the Imam has always been manifest.

The Das Avatars refer to specific manifestations of the Imam to bring about changes in history and begin a new phases. There were two important points in the Duapur Yuga when it happened and yes they were our Imams. In Kali Yuga it was the manifestation of Hazarat Ali as the Imam of the Shia.

Yes there is more general awareness of the various religions and the appreciation of pluralism and hence tolerance will increase. There is also an explosion of knowl;edge in all areas of life compared to Kaljug....
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 16845

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sayyed Imam Shah in the Granth 'Moman Chetamni' states:

Eji Te char jug aavine pura thaya,
Hawe nahin koie agiyar mo avtar,
Te senso mate sacha satguru thaki,
Teni sharane te raho nirdhar Cheto......

65. (Translation) Momins, four Joogs (four eras) are completed and there is no eleventh Avtar to come. Thus the only way to complete your spiritual evolvement is to submit yourself to His feet and stay by His support.

Sayyed Imam Shah was a son of Pir Hasan Kabirdeen who is considered as the Mukhi of Fadtaal Vela (turning period). The above verse suggests that the Kaljug ended during Pir Hasan Kabeerdin's time and that there was a new phase ushered which is the ascending Dua Pur Yug as explained in my earlier posts in this subject.
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 16845

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prince Sadruddin in one of his speeches mentions that the doctrine of the present age as being that of the dark age of Kali Yuga is a Hindu one. We should not think of ourselves as being in the dark ages of Kali Yuga. It engenders a negative outlook. Below is the excerpt.

"Creation is sacred. Life and nature need not be exploited to instill fear in our hearts. For the Hindus, we have entered the Kali Yuga, the dark age, while St. John's Apocalypse evokes the divine judgement for human sins through his vision of the final destruction of the earth. Though there is cause for apocalyptic rhetoric in the chemical and radioactive pollution of soil and water and the depletion of the ozone layer, the problem with cyclical or terminal Apocalypses is that they deeply imprint the mind with negative and destructive behaviour patterns. One is escapism: "God will judge, but we are the faithful who will escape. And really this isn't our home, anyway, since heaven is our kingdom". There is an "us/them" dilemma here, with a judgement on the others. What we need to do is formulate a language that draws people back into community and responsibility. Apocalyptic visions point the other way."(Spirituality & Science, The need for togetherness, Speech by Prince Sadruddin Aga Khan, President of the Bellerive Foundation, Symposium on Trade, Environment and Animal Welfare. The European Parliament, Brussels, 26-27 September 1996)
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padmani_momin



Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:35 am    Post subject: 7 skies and 10 skies Reply with quote

Can any body tell me what is the difference between 7 skies and 10 skies. In several ginans and granth, it is mentioned that God has created 10 skies and 7 earths and in He is the Lord of 14 AVALIM that is 7 earths and 7 skies. Please reply if any one know
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 16845

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: 7 skies and 10 skies Reply with quote

padmani_momin wrote:
Can any body tell me what is the difference between 7 skies and 10 skies. In several ginans and granth, it is mentioned that God has created 10 skies and 7 earths and in He is the Lord of 14 AVALIM that is 7 earths and 7 skies. Please reply if any one know

In my opinion, numbers 7 or 10 are just figurative expressions of many worlds or heavens created for our spiritual elevation. MSMS says in The Memoirs:

"Once man has thus comprehended the essence of existence, there remains for him the duty, since he knows the absolute value of his own soul, of making for himself a direct path which will constantly lead his individual soul to and bind it with the universal Soul of which the Universe as much of it as we perceive with our limited visions one of the infinite manifestations."
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prince_visram



Joined: 12 May 2009
Posts: 188

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmaherali wrote:
goldfaizi wrote:
I want know that in Dwapur yug there are 2 avatars. I believe that both Avatars is our present imam? Am i right?

If we can calculate, there are 50 % sins now a days in the world as compare with the kalyug. In kalyug in the times of Prophet Mohammad and Hazrat Ali there were 97 1/2 % sins done by people. Atleast we can see that in present age everyone knows that there is GOD, Prophet Mohammad is his prophet. We Ismailies believes that Amirul Mominin is from ALLAH. Religion is there in the world. Due to crisis in all over the world it has given birth to crimes and other sins.


The notion of Das Avatar is the manifestation of the Imam in a more universal sense, i.e., to the broader humanity to bring about a significant impact or change. For the Jamat, the Imam has always been manifest.

The Das Avatars refer to specific manifestations of the Imam to bring about changes in history and begin a new phases. There were two important points in the Duapur Yuga when it happened and yes they were our Imams. In Kali Yuga it was the manifestation of Hazarat Ali as the Imam of the Shia.

Yes there is more general awareness of the various religions and the appreciation of pluralism and hence tolerance will increase. There is also an explosion of knowl;edge in all areas of life compared to Kaljug....


I have never thought of it this way, very nice interpretation. I have always believed that we were in the Kali Yuga but I have never thought of it this deep. For the last few weeks I have been seemingly obsessed with the Ginan "Pahelaa kartaa jug maahe" and have repeatedly been looking up the meaning, and have been thinking so much about the theory of Kali Yuga we have been in, but, I have never looked at it in another manner.

Also, I had one question: Why is the ginans [Pir Shams Jo Das Avtaar] and [Sayyed Imam Shah Jo Das Avtar] not available anywhere? Is there any historical significance or have they been lost or are they locked up in the ISS or what? Haha just wondering because it has been bothering me for quite some time. I believe by having such Ginans, many of our questions could be answered. Thank you.

EDIT:

I just read this : http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/22958

SO NOW,

Just wondering, just guessing, these are probably the sources i am looking for, and supposedly they are in Sindhi, and Suposedly they are very hard to understand and have been translated to Gujarati - but if they have been available in Gujarati, I am sure it can be transliterated - that is if it can be found. [Refering to Pir Shams Version]. Anyway, any more info would still be greatlyappriciated. icon_smile.gif
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kmaherali



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 16845

PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

prince_visram wrote:


Also, I had one question: Why is the ginans [Pir Shams Jo Das Avtaar] and [Sayyed Imam Shah Jo Das Avtar] not available anywhere? Is there any historical significance or have they been lost or are they locked up in the ISS or what? Haha just wondering because it has been bothering me for quite some time. I believe by having such Ginans, many of our questions could be answered. Thank you.

EDIT:

I just read this : http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/22958

SO NOW,

Just wondering, just guessing, these are probably the sources i am looking for, and supposedly they are in Sindhi, and Suposedly they are very hard to understand and have been translated to Gujarati - but if they have been available in Gujarati, I am sure it can be transliterated - that is if it can be found. [Refering to Pir Shams Version]. Anyway, any more info would still be greatlyappriciated. icon_smile.gif


These works have been published in Gujerati, but need to be transliterated and translated into English for wider access. But the essential ideas are conveyed in Anant Akhado (Ashaji) verses 404 onwards at:

http://www.ismaili.net/granths/part5.html

Of course for those who want to dive deeper will need to consult other sources as well. Insha Allah with the availability of technology the task of transcribing and translating will become easier and hence achievable...
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