Pork/drinking/smoking???

koosh · Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 3

I would like to know some question

1. Why don't ismailis eat pork?
2. If ismailis are not to drink or smoke why do they do this and think it's of

I just want to know these two question

star_munir · Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 1602

Ismailis do not eat pork as it is haram in Islam and it is forbidden in Quran to eat pork or pig.

Similarly some ismailis [not all but few] also smoke or drink which is very wrong and against religion but there is Nasha in bear,wine, alchohol etc so they can not leave it easily if they have used it before .

shamsu · Joined: 15 Apr 2003 Posts: 646

Sorry but I have to disagree with star_munir

Ismailies do not eat pork because their Imam has instructed them not to because it creates animal desires in our hearts

Ismailies do not drink or smoke because their Imam has instructed them not to, as it harms the body and the person cannot do Ibadaat and achieve salvation.

All other reasons I dont care to waste my time with.

Shams

star_munir · Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 1602

Yes drinking wine ,eating pork etc is not allowed in Ismailism because of Faman but not only ismailis but all muslims think wine and pork as haram
because this is in Quran and hadith.
Imam has said what is in Quran in His Farmans.

ONiazi · Joined: 05 May 2003 Posts: 56 Location: Deerfield, IL, USA

Assalamu aleikum min Maula Hazir Imam!

Here's another perspective on why Muslims are commanded not to eat pork, drink alcohol, etc.

Rabbi Hayim Halevy Donin writes in "How To Be a Jew" that the origin of the laws of "kashrut" ("kashrus" in Ashkenazi Hebrew)--the laws of pure and impure, including the dietary code that forbids the eating of pork--was to separate the House of Israel (Beit Yisrael in Hebrew, Bani-Israeel in Arabic) from its pagan neighbors. He also writes that the Biblical commandments were not issued to protect the Jews' health - they were issued to emphasize that they were a separate, chosen people, separate from the other nations, and chosen by God. Obedience to the commandments is done not to be healthy but out of fear and love of God. (Rabbi Shneur Zalman goes very deeply into this obedience out of fear and love of God in his "Likutei Amarim".)

Similarly, one may say that there is an element of this regarding to prohibitions against pork and alcohol.

Concerning some Qur'anic commandments, there is a clear reason why they were issued. Practices such as female infanticide, immorality, the eating of dead animals, etc., were and are simply plain wrong. In this way, the Qur'an places a moral obligation and code upon Muslims. However, if the Qur'an wanted to be health-conscious, it could stipulate edicts such as drinking alcohol only until one comes to loose his/her inhibitions, or that pork should not be eaten unless it's cooked well, or that one should solely beseech God when using divining rods. Perhaps--and this is a theory--the Qur'an came forth with such unquestionable commandments to separate the faithful Muslims--who are separate from dar-ul-harb and its inhabitants, and chosen by God--from the non-believers.

Thus, Muslim distinguish themselves by abstaining from pork, alcohol, and adhering to certain slaughtering practices. They were ordered to do so to keep themselves separate from the rest of the world, and obey not because it benefits their health necessarily but because they fear and love God, and seek to obey Him. (Both Jews and Muslims believe that the believer is blessed for obeying God's commands, and that blessing is reason enough to obey them, health and personal benefits notwithstanding.)

Just a theory that occured to me. I will not attempt to explain the motivation or reasoning behind the farmans of the Hazir Imams. Only the Hazir Imams and those authorized by Them are able to do so. (May blessings and peace shower upon the beloved Hazir Imam and His followers!)

Maula hafiz,
Omayr

mhimani · Joined: 13 Oct 2003 Posts: 4 Location: Edison, NJ

I read this article on the web and I think it will help you understand the reasoning behind not eating pork: "http://eng.islam.ru/lib/pork/"

alattar · Joined: 29 Apr 2004 Posts: 4

what about the ismaeli communities who traditionnally smoke hasheesh, in Pakistan or Afghanistan ?<BR>Is hasheesh forbidden by the Holy Qur'an ?

nagib · Joined: 01 Feb 2003 Posts: 294

ShamsB · Joined: 04 Aug 2004 Posts: 870

I love the people that go out and find scientific reasons behind why we don't eat pork..i had one ismaili once tell me that in olden days pigs carried germs and illnesses but they don't know so they should be okay for us to eat...
or the smoking arguement..i remember as a child hearing farmans of MSMS in jk about smoking and it's hazards to health..and this was before it was directly linked to cancers.

my response to all those who say pork is now cleaner than ever before..and other such arguements is ..that when we gave baiyat..we gave tan..man and dhan to imam...he says no pork..means no pork..no questions..no arguements..no nothing..we follow him unconditionally as we promised.

karimqazi · Joined: 18 Dec 2003 Posts: 70 Location: Houston, Texas

Ya Ali Madad

"that when we gave baiyat..we gave tan..man and dhan to imam...he says no pork..means no pork..no questions..no arguements..no nothing..we follow him unconditionally as we promised."
-ShamsB-

Bravo! What an excellent point. I hope this will end an arguement about consuming pork, drinking alcohol, doing drugs,and smoking.

May Mowla bless you all.

_thaillestlunatic_ · Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 179

excellent point shamsB, keep up the good work

May Mowla bless you all

ShamsB · Joined: 04 Aug 2004 Posts: 870

I was thinking about this last night..and i remember researching this a while back out of my own curiousity...
and i might be opening a can of worms...but this is just an observation on my part..no flames please!

For those amongst us that are diabetics or heart patients we should know that insulin comes from pigs..or used to..as do heart valves for human heart patients...
how come it is that i can't take my kidney and put it in another human being without sufficient testing and ensuring there is a biological match..but i can take insulin and heart valves from a pig and put it in a human body...
this speaks to the genetic compatability of humans and pigs...so shouldn't pork consumption come close to cannibalism?

heartbreakkid · Joined: 27 Aug 2007 Posts: 38

some ismailis do bcoz they r ignorant... our imam e zaman made is crystal clear when he said

Our belief is that the thing which separates man from the animals is his power of thought. Anything that impedes this process is wrong. Therefore alcohol is forbidden. Sunday Times interview 12 Dec. 1965

-- Aga Khan IV

What has been called the permissive society, where anything goes, nothing matters, nothing is sacred or private any more, is not a promising foundation for a brave and upright new world. [Speech 30 Nov 1967]

-- Aga Khan IV

Admin · Joined: 06 Jan 2003 Posts: 1753

This section is named Ginan so please keep discussion under control on what would be the references in ginans about the subjects else there are other section on pork, drinking etc... please post under appropriate section.

if you are posting under the ginan subject heading and the discussion has nothing to do with ginans, it will be moved at some point and you will all be thinking it has been deleted.

Admin

star_munir · Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 1602

Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah in his Farman of 3-4-1893, in Bobmay, had reminded that Pir Sadardin has said in Ginans not to stay away from drinking. Imam also reminded that in Anant Akhado, also it is mentioned to stay away from drinking.

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