Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject: Dawand/Khums
Virgo2:
Paying khums by Ismailis, whether it's right or wrong is another issue, but it is not obligatory for Ismailis. The 1/5th which you are reffering to, is regarding booty (ma'li ghaneemat) in war, in which muslim soldiers occupy on it from unblievers.
We all must know that there are many many Ismailis around the globe, who pay daswand to the Khalifa of Allah @ 10%, 12.5%, 20% and even 100% on their income to purify their soul and please their Creator and their Imam-e-Zaman. The more we pay, the more we can expect from our Creator on the Day of Judgement.
"And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah, and to the Messenger, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer, if ye do believe in Allah and in the revelation We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing, the Day of the meeting of the two forces. For Allah hath power over all things".
Paying khums by Ismailis, whether it's right or wrong is another issue, but it is not obligatory for Ismailis. The 1/5th which you are reffering to, is regarding booty (ma'li ghaneemat) in war, in which muslim soldiers occupy on it from unblievers.
I did not say paying Khums is right or wrong. I quoted Kazi Nauman who quoted Imam Jafar As Sadiq. As regards the Ma’li Ghanimat, Kazi Nauman has said: It is the duty of every "momin" to pay one-fifth of his earnings to the Imam of the time. It must be borne in mind that the word 'ghanimat' used in the above verses does not necessarily mean the spoils of 'jehad'. It applies to everything that a man earns. Imam Jafar Sadiq, greetings be on him, says "God has made it obligatory for the 'momins' to pay us one fifth of their earnings. It belongs to us as a matter of right. He who denies us this right and does not give us our share will have no claim on God and will get no reward from Him".
Pooya Ali's commentary (an Ithna) on the said 8:41 is as follows:
KHUMS MEANS ONE FIFTH.
Ghanayam means the property, movable and immovable, surrendered by the enemy in any battle. Verse 1 of this surah has already stated that it belongs to Allah and the Holy Prophet. Although the Sunni jurists have restricted its meaning to the spoils of war, but actually, according to Shia scholars, on every profit obtained by trade and labour, or from mines, or from sea or by means mentioned in the books of fiqh, payment of khums is obligatory, because as per the rules of lexicography the word ghanimat applies to all these things. Well-known commentators like Razi and Qartabi admit that the real meaning of ghanimat does not justify its restriction to the spoils of war only. ...According to this verse out of every profit, from wherever it comes, including the spoils of wars, khums has to be paid, because both ma (a relative pronoun-mawsulah) and shay are of a general nature and carry no restrictions.
Quote:
We all must know that there are many many Ismailis around the globe, who pay daswand to the Khalifa of Allah @ 10%, 12.5%, 20% and even 100% on their income to purify their soul and please their Creator and their Imam-e-Zaman. The more we pay, the more we can expect from our Creator on the Day of Judgement.
I agree with you. I know people who give 20%, 50% and 75% and lead a very simple life. I know Christians who give 60%, especially the Priests.
I said in my post that our Imam has decided that we should pay 12.5 as our Dasond whereas Khums is not compulsory for us. May be it was compulsory during Imam Jafar Sadiq's time and hence the Ithnas, who separated from us after Imam Jafar Sadiq have continued the tradition.
Sometime back, in another forum somebody had stated that “his wife” had said that Imam has lots of money so she had decided to give her part of dasond to a family in need. This is wrong. Nobody has a right to use the “amanat” of Imam as they please. When we do bayat we say everything that we own and have belongs to the Imam. So how can one decide who should be beneficiary of our dasond money? Dasond money is not ours to begin with. Yes, after taking out our dasond we can give sadaqah to the family in need but certainly not dasond which is Imam’s right only.
In the Anant Akhado (may be somebody can quote the verse here), Dasond is considered to be the foundation of our faith. It is compared to a tree. When the roots are dead (foundation) the stems, leaves and fruits will die out. Without Dasond our prayers, Ibadat, sadaqah, rozas are useless and waste of time.
Everyday we recite in our Dua, part 4 and 5 for Allah to bless us with our rozi in the name of our Prophet and our Imams. Allah S.W.T. gives us our rozi and we have to obey Him and surrender Ushr to Him, the Prophet and the Imam as He has decreed.
Virgo2
Just trying to understand this whole concept of Dasoond.
We are Ismaili Muslim and therefore we pay
10% to our Imam
and 2.5% for Zakaat (charity) to our Imam as well
thus = 12.5%?
So I am going to assume there is a SPECIFIC reference in Quran saying that a Muslim should pay Zakaat and if so, it should be 2.5%?
Which Imam started the concept of paying 10%? I mean if Quran stated to pay 2.5% and later on after xx amount of imam it was stated to pay 10%?
Correction the 2.5% is NOT CHARITY.
It is the RIGHT OF THE PIR.
We pay that to the PIR..and in this age and time, Shah Karim is both the 49th IMAM and the 50th PIR of the Ismailies.
Hmm...now the Jamat is growing and in big jamatkhanas there is more rush so if one submits his/her dasond to the other dua parts which act as subsitute to Mukhi/Kamadia parts. Is it acceptable? If we submit our dasond to them ?
Hmm...now the Jamat is growing and in big jamatkhanas there is more rush so if one submits his/her dasond to the other dua parts which act as subsitute to Mukhi/Kamadia parts. Is it acceptable? If we submit our dasond to them ?
Absolutely! Why not. Most of the time I end up performing all my duties at the 'sides' beacuse the 'centre' is too overly subscribed.
Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject: Bibi Fatima's Tasbih
I believe it is said that the story of Bibi Fatima's tasbi goes as follows: Bibi Fatima and Hazrat Ali were very poor and one day Bibe Fatima was very exhausted and could not continue to do the work. At the same time Hazrat Ali worked very hard collecting firewood, irrigating other peoples lands by drawing water from the wells which caused chest pains , . Hazrat Ali then tells her to go to her father, the Prophet, in order to receive a servant to help around the house. When Bibi Fatima approached her father to ask for a servant, he told her that he could give her one if she'd like, but he could giver her something better than the world and everything that it encompassed, where she agrees and he gives her the 3 forms of zikr :
"Allahu Akbar - Allah is greater, SubhanAllah - Glory be to Allah, and Alhamdulillah - All Praise is due to Allah"
Now if it was known that Hazrat Ali and Bibi Fatima were very poor, how is it that Dasond is comprised of two parts: 10% given to Shah and 2.5% given to Pir. At that time the Prophet had servants, and had the ability to offer them a servant, indicating he was more well off than them at that time. However, should not it have been the other way around if 10% of 12.5% were to be given to Hazrat Ali?
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:15 am Post subject: Re: Bibi Fatima's Tasbih
arshad1988 wrote:
I believe it is said that the story of Bibi Fatima's tasbi goes as follows: Bibi Fatima and Hazrat Ali were very poor and one day Bibe Fatima was very exhausted and could not continue to do the work. At the same time Hazrat Ali worked very hard collecting firewood, irrigating other peoples lands by drawing water from the wells which caused chest pains , . Hazrat Ali then tells her to go to her father, the Prophet, in order to receive a servant to help around the house. When Bibi Fatima approached her father to ask for a servant, he told her that he could give her one if she'd like, but he could giver her something better than the world and everything that it encompassed, where she agrees and he gives her the 3 forms of zikr :
"Allahu Akbar - Allah is greater, SubhanAllah - Glory be to Allah, and Alhamdulillah - All Praise is due to Allah"
Now if it was known that Hazrat Ali and Bibi Fatima were very poor, how is it that Dasond is comprised of two parts: 10% given to Shah and 2.5% given to Pir. At that time the Prophet had servants, and had the ability to offer them a servant, indicating he was more well off than them at that time. However, should not it have been the other way around if 10% of 12.5% were to be given to Hazrat Ali?
Interesting question !
This story may be contrary to the anecdote given in Moman Chetamni by Syed Imam Shah, according to which Hazrat Ali and Fatima had servants namely Khalak, Khudabaksh, Sadak, Abdurasool.
If this story is correct than also, all the money was used to help poor people. I dont think it was used for personal use. There is a story that once one woman said bad about Mawiya, she was brought to her. Mawiya asked her do you praise Ali and dislike me. The woman replied yes. Mawiya gave her lot of precious gifts from baitul maal. Mawiya said to her see you hate me yet I have given you so many gifts. But listen carefully, if it was Ali, then he would not have treated you so.
Woman replied : Yes I know this very well. Ali would not have given me a single penny from baitul maal for this.
Mawiya was speechless from this unexpected reply. The goods in baitul maal were used to help the needy people.
can our imam e zaman use dasond money on himself [personal use like in his hotels,airlines,resorts,horses] ???
This question has already been asked and replied many times on the Forum that what the Imam does with Dassond money is his decision and if he wants he can burn it as far as Ismailis are concerned once they give to the Imam they do not ask him for account. If you have nothing interesting to do on this board except ask questions that have already been answered, please make room for people who have new questions and can contribute positively.
I don't think you have read the rules not that you have understood them. Or maybe you have your agenda.
Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Bibi Fatima's Tasbih
arshad1988 wrote:
Now if it was known that Hazrat Ali and Bibi Fatima were very poor, how is it that Dasond is comprised of two parts: 10% given to Shah and 2.5% given to Pir. At that time the Prophet had servants, and had the ability to offer them a servant, indicating he was more well off than them at that time. However, should not it have been the other way around if 10% of 12.5% were to be given to Hazrat Ali?
If you know your history, during this time, war was taking place and so, many women had become widows and had no shelter or sustenance to provide themselves with. Therefore, Nabi Muhammad (pbuh) would help these women by sending them to work under a household. In return, they would be provided with food and shelter. So the servants that you say belonged to Nabi Muhammad (pbuh) weren't really his servants, rather they were just women that were being helped by the prophet.
In addition, the dasond was given to the prophet at that time, not Mowla Ali. It was afterwards, when Hazrat Ali was declared as the Imam, that the dasond was given to the Imam. The remaining 2.5% that we, Ismailis give, was added during the time of Pir Sadrudin.
As a fellow brother, I would recommend people read the "The Ismailis - Their history and doctrines" by Farhad Daftary. What's intriguing about this book is that it is not even written by an Ismaili, but rather by outside sources and that it's authenticity is such that it is being studied at reputable universities like Harvard.
Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: The Sad Sorry State of Zakat
kmaherali wrote:
This is indeed sad. It is no wonder that many non-Ismailis contribute to our institutions such as the AKU as a better avenue for philanthropy. MHI mentioned in one of his speeches that the financial base of the AKU is broadening and there is a greater participation from outside our community. If this trend continues then the AKU and other Imamat institutions will be non communal civil society institutions in their truest sense.
The article below indicates that AKU is becoming an increasing avenue of zakat contributions...
AKUH Patients’ Behbud Society spends Rs 145 million
Posted: 09 Mar 2009 12:04 PM PDT
7 March 2009 Business Recorder
The Patients’ Behbud Society (PBS) for the Aga Khan University Hospital (AKUH), received over Rs 76 million in its zakat funds in 2008, against Rs 43 million received in 2007, according to PBS Chairman M R Monem. In a letter sent to the donors, thanking them for their “generous support” resulting in the increase in fund collection, he said.
“Encouraged by the response we received last year, the Committee has set a target of Rs 100 million for zakat collections in 2009.” The Society has now completed its 7th year and, during this period, over Rs 145 million has been disbursed towards medical treatment of ‘mustehqeen’ (deserving people).
This was commensurate with the level of zakat funds received. Each month, the executive committee of PBS meets to review and approve applications of ‘mustehqeen’ in desperate and urgent need of medical treatment. Case history of the beneficiaries have also been attached with the letter.
The continuous increase in the number of needy patients seeking assistance annually brings to the fore the urgent need to expand this endeavour. Monem has requested the donors “to help us further by persuading your friends and relatives to include us as a beneficiary for their zakat, enabling us to reach the target of Rs 100 million for the current year.”
Sir in my jk...i have seen a trend that people keeps an eye how much a person dasond pays(in sense when a person pays a huge amount)ppl start gossipping how this guy earns and all stuffs plus personally tryin to b a detective on him .....this include some of the path committees member too.....
I wanted to know can a person directly give dasond to imam by directly forwarding to him via jk tijoris and his bandagi rather than doin so in traditional way to b safe from others eye
Sir in my jk...i have seen a trend that people keeps an eye how much a person dasond pays(in sense when a person pays a huge amount)ppl start gossipping how this guy earns and all stuffs plus personally tryin to b a detective on him .....this include some of the path committees member too.....
I wanted to know can a person directly give dasond to imam by directly forwarding to him via jk tijoris and his bandagi rather than doin so in traditional way to b safe from others eye
According to my understanding Dasond money is received by Mukh/Kamadia in a manner in which the amount is not visible to anyone else.
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