Quran without it's authentic teacher is a dark room and full of thorns. You need a divine light to interpret Quran. That light was given to Hazrat Ali after Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). He never left human kind alone just with a book.
The issue raised in my mind was that Prophet Muhammad PBUH always conveyed Quran in the form of his Hadiths right? Then how the actual text of Quran was written? And Quran was never compiled during his time. So I am confused in it.
I do not think it is too important how the Message was transmitted, it could have been memorised by the Prophet's companions for example and then letter transcribed...What is important to realize is that our Imams have accepted it in its current form and we should not question that.
st0necol wrote:
And who was the person who learned all the Quran so that during 2nd or 3rd caliph he helped Caliph Osman in compiling ?
And why Hazrat Ali when he was the 4th caliph didn't undo the changes Osman made in the Quran ? Any history behind it?
There could be many persons who could have memorised it. Even today you can find individuals who have memorised it. It is not difficult if you have the devotion.
If Hazarat Ali had changed the Quran, it would have created a major fissure in the Umma. Hazarat Ali did not have the spiritual authority in the Umma as the Prophet. He was only a Caliph and hence any changes done by Ali would not have been accepted. Why would the Umma accept Ali's Quran instead of that of Uthman. He was only a Caliph to the majority.
As a matter of unity Hazarat Ali accepted the Uthman version of the Quran just as he accepted the leadership of the first three Caliphs. The excerpt from a speech made by Imam Sultan Muhammad Shah states:
"In the present Imamat the final reconciliation between the Shia and Sunni doctrines has been publicly proclaimed by myself on exactly the same lines as Hazrat Aly did at the death of the Prophet and during the first thirty years after that. The political and worldly Khalifat was accepted by Hazrat Aly in favour of the three first Khalifs voluntarily and with goodwill for the protection of the interests of the Muslims throughout the world.
We Ismailis now in the same spirit accept the Khalifat of the first Khalifs and such other Khalifs as during the last thirteen centuries helped the cause of Islam, politically, socially and from a worldly point of view. On the other hand the Spiritual Imamat remained with Hazrat Aly and remains with his direct descendants always alive till the day of Judgement."(Published in 'Agakhan III Selected Speeches and Writings of Sir Sultan Muhammad Shah', Edited by K.K. Aziz. Pg 1417)
He was the 4th caliph but still many didn't truly believe him.
Thanks bro
So kmeharali
You think that as soon as Quranic verses were revealed, Prophet recited it and those Sahabas learned it ? And then prophet explained the hidden meaning behind it? Because if it was only Exoteric, any arab would have understood. it was the hidden meaning which needed a divine intellect.
im in my room now. and i found a laptop here. i can continue i open this site and read all hadiths in its page. i want to say a truth about me, i do not show consideration and respect to Hadiths. maybe this a wrong behavior i do not know but i am that. but i believe Hadiths wich in that page. because Hz. Ali (r.a.) is Shah-i Veli. thats possibility is very high. but still i think choosen of calipth is confused. all calipths are dear for me. and i do not want do some disrespectful things to them. Islam is a Peaceful religion but events which after Prophet (sav) death are very sadden and disturb me...
Brother
what ever happened was a historical period which cannot be reversed. Now it's our duty to create humanity and brotherhood among with our other muslim brothers and also non-muslims. Create peace with them because only then they'll know the real picture of Islam. Whats with war? All do it, but who gave the message of Forgiving your enemies? Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) forgived all Kafirs after Mecca Fatah.
Thats Islam. The beauty lies in it's uniqueness. And the fruits only those can taste, who do it
When we do charity or help others by other means it gives a pleasure and feeling inside which no other material luxuries can deliver. Helping others makes us closer to GOD
It means that Farmans are the correct interpretation applicable to our context. The reason we have the Imam is that he interpretes the Quran for us and in that sense his interpretation is the only correct interpretation of the Quran.
If there is an apparent confict between the Quran and the Farman due to the contextual aspects of the Quran, then the Farmans would be the correct interpretation.
The Quran states that: "Everything is manifest in the Imam." Hence whatever the Imam says in correct according to the Quran.
So Farman is not the extenssion of Quran, means last message of God was to Hazrat Muhammad PBUH and we belive he is last messager of God.
Quran is the final revelation of God. That does not mean that Divine guidance was frozen. Guidance has continued through the Imams who have interpreted the Quran according to the times. Hence Farmans are an extension of the Quran....
MSMS in his memoir states:
The Prophet died without appointing a Khalif or successor. The Shia school of thought maintains that although direct Divine inspiration ceased at the Prophet's death, the need of Divine guidance continued and this could not be left merely to millions of mortal men, subject to the whims and gust of passion and material necessity, capable of being momentarily but tragically misled by greed, by oratory, or by the sudden desire for material advantage. These dangers were manifest in the period immediately following our Holy Prophet's death. Mohammed had been, as I have shown, both a temporal and a spiritual sovereign. The Khalif or successor of the Prophet was to succeed him in both these capacities; he was to be both Emir-al-Momenin or "Commander of the true believers" and Imam-al-Muslimin or "spiritual chief of the devout." Perhaps an analogy from the Latin, Western world will make this clearer: he would be Supreme Pontiff as well as Imperator or temporal ruler.
Ali, the Prophet's cousin and son-in-law, the husband of his beloved and only surviving child, Fatimah, his first convert, his bold champion in many a war, who the Prophet in his lifetime said would be to him as Aaron was to Moses, his brother and right-hand man, in the veins of whose descendants the Prophet's own blood would flow, appeared destined to be that true successor; and such had been the general expectation of Islam. The Shias have therefore always held that after the Prophet's death, Divine power, guidance and leadership manifested themselves in Hazrat Ali as the first Imam or spiritual chief of the devout. The Sunnis, however, consider him the fourth in the succession of Khalifs to temporal power.
As per the Ismaili Constitution, Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] was the last Prophet and there can not be here any contradiction on his matter.
The Quran is protected by God. The Mushaf which is the compilation has not been done or approved by the Prophet [PBUH] in the present written format, it did not exist when Allah proclaimed "Today i have perfected your religion".
the Imam of the Time has the proper interpretation of the Quran.
As he said, the Quran is there for all to read but the meaning is not there for all, it is however there for our Jamat because we have an Imam of the Time.
This debate has been going on since Centuries in the Muslim World and between Ismailis and others and I doubt these Centuries of debates will be resolved in this Forum today. So instead of trying to create controversies, lets first understand the subject.
yes indeed....! The debate has carried on for centuries and probably will carry on for another10 to 12 centuries,if not within the ummah then outside.The fact that mankind is never left alone on this earth without a guild is true...........and that truth can only be achived by an individual, by being sincere and if insearch....sincerly without the imbalance of the corruption of history............it takes more than mear talk. its dedication ,its taking time to sit and contemplate,which sadly is in short suppy.
Hi
The matter is not solved, we all agree that final communication of God was to Hazrat Muhammad PBUH and Imam is for Tafsir of Quran which means authoritative explanation. Then why is it so that according to the time 1 Ayat has one meaning and as time passes, same ayat has different meanings.
Haj,according to both Sunni and Shia school of thought is compulsory and many ayat has been revealed by Allah,
[2:125] We have rendered the shrine (the Kaba) a focal point for the people, and a safe sanctuary. You may use Abraham's shrine as a prayer house. We commissioned Abraham and Ismail: "You shall purify My house for those who visit, those who live there, and those who bow and
prostrate."
[2:158] The knolls of Safa and Marwah are among the rites decreed by GOD. Anyone who observes Hajj or `Umrah commits no error by traversing the distance between them. If one volunteers more righteous works, then GOD is Appreciative, Omniscient.
[ 2:196] You shall observe the complete rites of Hajj and `Umrah for GOD. If you are prevented, you shall send an offering, and do not resume cutting your hair until your offering has reached its destination.
Roza / Fasting
2:185 Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.
There are many references in Quran. I have read many articles on this forum and found that Fasting was discontinued during Hazrat Zakariya-Alai-Salam.
How? How is it possible to override Holy Quran.
People are kept silent for ages, and yet we discuss and discuss and satisfy our self for many years that since Hazar Imam said therefore it is correct. But did anyone asked Hazar Imam except a person who asked MSMS and fasting was made compulsory for him? (Why for him only)
According to you, Hazar Imam is for guidence. From where we would have guidance when we would have 1 way of communication.
No school or teacher can teach student, if student cannot raise a question. How many Waizen today answers your question? Can you argue with him based on your intellectual, in today's scenerio it would be considered a Sin if you ask question to Waizin or Jamat's Mukhi.
Please read Ayats I have quoted, do you still need explanations on it?
Further
See Surah Nisa V. 59 which is also read in second part of Dua.
"O ye who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those charged with authority [/b]AMONG YOU.[b]
If ye differ in anything among yourselves refer it to Allah and His Apostle if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: that is best and most suitable for final determination.
Way back there was no significant difference between an Ismailia and a Shia, 5 times a day prayer, Roza and Haj. And today the scenerio is changed.
one Ayat and different interpretation according to time is not possible. If you dont' understand meaning of Quran than read and read and you will understand.
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