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star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 10:23 pm

Pir Sadardeen beseeches O Ali! We are sinful, forgive our sins, O Ali, O Forgiver! ...4

THIS IS TRANSLATION OF LAST VERSE OF GINANN EJI GHAR SARVADHAYIOU SHAH MORAY LIYO AVTAAR

WHY PIR SADAR DIN SAID HE IS SIN FUL AS PIR IS NOOR OF ALLAH?

kandani · Post by **kandani** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 7:47 pm

Quran says that Prophet Muhammad (Pir) is the witness over all of mankind. Therefore, I believe in that ginan, Pir was interceding and speaking for all the believers. This means that mankind or humanity is sinful and Pir is representing us. He never said he himself is personally sinful.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Wed Sep 24, 2003 8:51 pm

This is in old dua that: [translation]

(Recite in prostration: ) O Shah! Pir, Vakil, the entire congregation, mother, father, relatives, living, dead and I thy bondman; all are sinful from head to foot, O Shah! Forgiver, forgive us.

The dua was made by Pir Sadar Din ,

kandani · Post by **kandani** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 10:12 am

Well, Pir is the Nur of Brahma, Nur of Muhammad.

I know that Imam is completely infallible and impeccable. However, I have read that this impeccability does NOT extend to the Prophets/Pirs. They do not commit major sins, but they can make an error.
At the beginning of this cycle, Prophet Adam made an error when he accidentally divulged the Knowledge of Qiyama to men who were unworthy of receiving it.
Another example is Moses when he was travelling with Khidr.
Also, according to some Ismaili scholars of old, Prophet Muhammad made an error because he apparantly laid claim to being the Mustaqar Imam, when in fact he was only a Mustawda Imam.

So from history, we can see that Pir's have made errors, but certainly, have not committed sins.

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 9:20 pm

YA ALI MADAD

IF PIR IS NOOR OF GOD HOW CAN THEY MAKE ERRORS?FOR GIVING US EXAMPLE OE ELSE.
YOU WROTE THAT
At the beginning of this cycle, Prophet Adam made an error when he accidentally divulged the Knowledge of Qiyama to men who were unworthy of receiving it.
Another example is Moses when he was travelling with Khidr.
I DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS CAN YOU PLAESE TELL ME? I CAN NOT AGREE WITH YOU WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT PROPHET MOHAMMAD [PBUH]

shamsu · Post by **shamsu** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 3:15 pm

I have watched an interview where Hazar Imam has stated that he has made mistakes.

What do you say to that, dear spiritual siblings of mine.

shamsu · Post by **shamsu** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 3:24 pm

THE QUESTION REALLY IS THIS

IS THERE ANYTHING THAT MY MOWLA CANNOT DO?

MY ANSWER TO THAT IS

HE CAN DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING

HE CAN CONSUME ALCOHOL IF HE WANTS MY HEAD WILL NOT RISE A MILLIMETER FROM ITS PROSTRATION TO HIM.

HE IS MAASOOM.

THE LAWS OF SIN, GOOD, BAD, RIGHT AND WRONG DO NOT APPLY TO HIM .

HE IS ABOVE ALL ELSE.

SHAMS

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 10:27 pm

Thanks for answering such a difficult question

PIR

PIR

a googli

mistakes