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On many occations in several ginans there is mentioned about chauda bhavan (14 world). We also find the word tribhuvar (3 worlds) . What are these 14 worlds and 3 worlds. I have heared that three worlds may be (past, present, future)(before birth, this world, aakhrat) and some more interpretations as according to different scholars but never heard about these 14 worlds. can any body help me?

PARATAK PAATRA NE PARAKHEENE
BY PEER INDDHR IMAAMDEEN

ejee paratak paatra ne parkhee ne, preme pujonee paay
chauda bhraahmann no e dhannee, paragat chhe jugmaa(n)he.....1

Having recognised the Manifest Form (of divinity, i.e Imam of the time),
worship Him with love. He is indeed the Master of the fourteen universes
(seven outer heavens and seven inner worlds) and is physically present in this age.

In Islam there is no contradiction between the outer and the inner worlds. The experience of outer universes are reflected in our inner growth, hence the Imam who guides us towards spiritual growth is the master of all worlds.

Swami Sri Yukteswar in his book 'The Holy Science' elaborates on the 14 universes as hierarchies or stages of the creation of the outer universes symbolized by 7 outer spheres on the one hand and as stages of the unfoldment of the inner worlds as symbolized by the 7 inner stations on the other as:

This universe is differentiated into fourteen spheres, seven Swargas and seven Patalas.

Seven Spheres or Swargas. This universe thus described, commencing from the Eternal Substance, God, down to the gross material creation, has been distinguished into seven different spheres, Swargas or Lokas.

7th Sphere, Satyaloka. The foremost of these is Satyaloka, the sphere of God—the only Real Substance, Sat, in the universe. No name can describe it, nor can anything in the creation of Darkness or Light designate it. This sphere is therefore called Anama, the Nameless.

6th Sphere, Tapoloka. The next in order is Tapoloka, the sphere of the Holy Spirit which is the Eternal Patience, as it remains forever undisturbed by any limited idea. Because it is not approachable even by the Sons of God as such, it is called Agama, the Inaccessible.

5th Sphere, Janaloka. Next is Janaloka, the sphere of spiritual reflection, the Sons of God, wherein the idea of separate existence of Self originates. As this sphere is above the comprehension of anyone in the creation of Darkness, Maya, it is called Alakshya, the Incomprehensible.

4th Sphere, Maharloka. Then comes Mahar-loka, the sphere of the Atom, the beginning of the creation of Darkness, Maya, upon which the Spirit is reflected. This, the connecting link, is the only way between the spiritual and the material creation and is called the Door, Dasamadwara.

3rd Sphere, Swarloka. Around this Atom is Swarloka, the sphere of magnetic aura, the electricities. This sphere, being characterized by the absence of all the creation (even the organs and their objects, the fine material things), is called Mahasunya, the Great Vacuum.

2nd Sphere, Bhuvarloka. The next is Bhuvar-loka, the sphere of electric attributes. As the gross matters of the creation are entirely absent from this sphere, and it is conspicuous by the presence of the fine matters only, it is called Sunya, the Vacuum Ordinary.

1st Sphere, Bhuloka. The last and lowest sphere is Bhuloka, the sphere of gross material creation, which is always visible to everyone.

Sapta Patalas, seven churches. As God created man in His own image, so is the body of man like unto the image of this universe. The material body of man has also seven vital places within it called Patalas. Man, turning toward his Self and advancing in the right way, perceives the Spiritual Light in these places, which are described in the Bible as so many churches; the lights like stars perceived therein are as so many angels. See Revelation 1:12,13,16,20.

"And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks, and in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the son of man—"

"And he had in his right hand seven stars — "

"The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches; and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches"

14 Bhavanas, the stages of creation. The above-mentioned seven spheres or Swargas and the seven Patalas constitute the fourteen Bhuvanas the fourteen distinguishable stages of the creation.

There have also been related discussions in the forum at:

Doctrines -> The Seven heavens
Doctrines -> Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque

Thanks alot karim maher ali.

Thanks Shiraz and Karimbhai, very intersting information about 7 upper loks here, I am giving you the name of 7 PATAL loks for your kind information but brothers my questions are still not answered satisfactory I am repeating one question here since Admin locked my thread and transfer in this thread even though my questions needs seperate thread and have very legitimate reasons to have seperate discussion but what can I do? if Admin read my questions carefully than he would't transfer in this thread anyway he is the boss.

THE NAME OF 7 PATALS ARE AS FOLLOWS:-

1, ATTAL
2, VITAL
3, SUTAL
4, TALATAL
5, MAHATAL
6, RASATAL
AND
7 PATAL
my question, how the heck it is possible that human being can live in fire ? there is lots of fires in PATALS? because the earth was part of sun one time as per the scientist, we all know that our earth came from sun and it is very hot in bottom part of the earth, how any body can live there in fire in LAVA?

kmaherali wrote:Swami Sri Yukteswar in his book 'The Holy Science' elaborates on the 14 universes as hierarchies or stages of the creation of the outer universes symbolized by 7 outer spheres on the one hand and as stages of the unfoldment of the inner worlds as symbolized by the 7 inner stations on the other as:

Respectfully, Sriyuketshwar was not a Muslim... I believe the Seven Heavens are elucidated in Persian and Arabic manuscripts of the Nizari Ismaili tradition. Perhaps check al-Kirmaani or other prominent Imaami theologians?

TheMaw wrote:

kmaherali wrote:Swami Sri Yukteswar in his book 'The Holy Science' elaborates on the 14 universes as hierarchies or stages of the creation of the outer universes symbolized by 7 outer spheres on the one hand and as stages of the unfoldment of the inner worlds as symbolized by the 7 inner stations on the other as:

Respectfully, Sriyuketshwar was not a Muslim... I believe the Seven Heavens are elucidated in Persian and Arabic manuscripts of the Nizari Ismaili tradition. Perhaps check al-Kirmaani or other prominent Imaami theologians?

Sister,
I didn't take the name of 7 nether (patal) worlds from the book of Swami Sri Yukteswar that is for sure. and yes we should check any information from muslim scholars if there is one, as you mentioned above.

agakhani wrote:my question, how the heck it is possible that human being can live in fire ? there is lots of fires in PATALS? because the earth was part of sun one time as per the scientist, we all know that our earth came from sun and it is very hot in bottom part of the earth, how any body can live there in fire in LAVA?

The seven patals should be taken as allegorical. They can be interpreted as the states of consciousness. A person who is constantly agitated and angry could be living in 'fire'.

TheMaw wrote:Respectfully, Sriyuketshwar was not a Muslim... I believe the Seven Heavens are elucidated in Persian and Arabic manuscripts of the Nizari Ismaili tradition. Perhaps check al-Kirmaani or other prominent Imaami theologians?

I do not think we should confine ourselves with wisdom from one tradition. We should be open to wisdom across all traditions and treat them according to merit. I also indicated in my post that there was a separate thread on the Seven Heavens as well which has Quranic and Ginanic sources.

A pertinent statement of MHI:

"All cultures naturally influence each other to a greater or lesser degree; the strongest are those in which the dominant elements remain dominant and refuse to be overwhelmed by external forces. They become stronger still when they retain the ability to select, to absorb that which invigorates and enriches and to reject that which is inimicable." [MHI Speech 26 Sept. 1978]

TheMaw wrote:

kmaherali wrote:Swami Sri Yukteswar in his book 'The Holy Science' elaborates on the 14 universes as hierarchies or stages of the creation of the outer universes symbolized by 7 outer spheres on the one hand and as stages of the unfoldment of the inner worlds as symbolized by the 7 inner stations on the other as:

Respectfully, Sriyuketshwar was not a Muslim... I believe the Seven Heavens are elucidated in Persian and Arabic manuscripts of the Nizari Ismaili tradition. Perhaps check al-Kirmaani or other prominent Imaami theologians?

The truth is not confined to Islam and neither is Islam confined to the Arabic interpretation. Islam means submission to Allah - so anyone that submits to Allah is a muslim - our faith teaches us to accept plurality - so Yukteswar is acceptable as a source to gain knoweldge.

Shamez

ejee paratak paatra ne parkhee ne, preme pujonee paay
chauda bhraahmann no e dhannee, paragat chhe jugmaa(n)he.....1

Having recognised the Manifest Form (of divinity, i.e Imam of the time),
worship Him with love. He is indeed the Master of the fourteen universes
(seven outer heavens and seven inner worlds) and is physically present in this age.

i really think that the english translation of the above verse has got some errors because heaven and hell are not part of universe , our peer used the term brahmann = universe

shiraz.virani wrote:i really think that the english translation of the above verse has got some errors because heaven and hell are not part of universe , our peer used the term brahmann = universe

There are many ways of understanding heaven and hell. In my opinion it is the state of your mind. You can be in heaven or hell depending upon your outlook and circumstances.

The universe out there is really the projection of our consciousness. Hence if your state of mind is happy then you are in heaven.

I think I have heard that Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah define Paradise as Knowledge and Hell as lack of knowledge but it is subject to my ailling memory

yes i think that heaven or hell is a state of consciousness of a person. for example A certain person is so happy with his life that he would say" this is heaven it cant get any better than this and on the other hand a certain person is so depressed that he feels as if he is in the worst possible condition and he cant imagine anything worse that than his current circumstances" So i agree with Karim Bhai. all of these planes exist the mind

yes i think that heaven or hell is a state of consciousness of a person. for example A certain person is so happy with his life that he would say" this is heaven it cant get any better than this and on the other hand a certain person is so depressed that he feels as if he is in the worst possible condition and he cant imagine anything worse that than his current circumstances" So i agree with Karim Bhai. all of these planes exist the mind

i dont think its right to say that heaven or hell is the state of consciousness because if you say that then you are denouncing life hereafter , not only that you are also denouncing the judgement day which is against the fundamentals of islam and our sect of islam

plus, god said we will be judged according to our deeds[good/bad] , so if something good happens that doesnt mean thats jannat, its just the mercy of allah


hope i cleared the misconception

salam
ya ali madad

shiraz.virani wrote:i dont think its right to say that heaven or hell is the state of consciousness because if you say that then you are denouncing life hereafter , not only that you are also denouncing the judgement day which is against the fundamentals of islam and our sect of islam

plus, god said we will be judged according to our deeds[good/bad] , so if something good happens that doesnt mean

Farman of MSMS:

"All other religions are exoteric, if in this world you do good deeds then after your death you will go to Heaven. But our religion is such that if you act with a clean heart according to its preachings, pray regularly and be pure, then you can acquire Heaven during your life time." (Precious Pearls, No.53)

i dont think its right to say that heaven or hell is the state of consciousness because if you say that then you are denouncing life hereafter , not only that you are also denouncing the judgement day which is against the fundamentals of islam and our sect of islam

plus, god said we will be judged according to our deeds[good/bad] :wink: , so if something good happens that doesnt mean thats jannat, its just the mercy of allah


hope i cleared the misconception

salam
ya ali madad[/quote]
BROTHER SHIRAZ,
Heaven and Hell are remain contraversial issue for centuries long, some peoples belive that we all have to give answer of our deeds ( good or bad ) on the day of Judgement (KAYAAMAT DAY) and Almighty Allah will give us punishment according our deeds, if some one did bad deeds during their lives then Almighty Allah will send them in the hell, if some one did good deeds dring their lives, Almighty Allah will send them in heaven and brother this is the common phylosophy in almost all the religions.
As per Islamic and Ismaili view of point I would say that It is quoted in Quran and our ginans (mahadan) about the day of judgement, so nobody can ignore about this day and I personally belive that every one has to give answer on that day.
The other phylosopher belives that heaven and hell is state of concsiousness of a person.
The third belivers says that heaven and hell (SWARG AND NARAK) stay with us during our life time on earth, whenever someone has to face difficult time he/she is in HELL and whenever some one has good time during their life he/she is in heaven, thus this kind controversy always there . As per my opinion in controversy like this every one need to use their comon sense , different peoples have different thinking and different thoughts so it is hard that all men has same thoughts. But I belive that every one has to give answer of their deeds after their death and on the day of judgement, Quran and Ginans can not be wrong.

There has been some discussion on Heaven and Hell at:

Doctrines --> Heaven and Hell

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... eaven+hell