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Click Here for All Comments on the Copyright Lawsuit Case by visitors of ismaili.net/heritage


The following is a snapshot from 2010/12/29 AM of all the comments on the Lawsuit.

Are Imam's annotations shared ?
On December 28th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Soulmate on vancouverite says on December 27, 2010 - In his letter dated November 1, 1990 addressed to Prothonotary Tabib Alnaz Jiwa had stated that His Highness had told them; “He annotates His Farmans” and that the annotated Farmans could be produced to them if they wanted them. But Nagib Tajdin and Alnaz Jiwa have produced and distributed the Farmans that were not annotated by the Imam. Where did they get that authority to produce and distribute Farmans that were not annotated by the Imam?

BLOGLAW RESPONSE December 28, 2010 -
Annotating means explanatory notes which Imam makes-gives on some Farmans for Leaders to understand and to share with the Jamat. I dont recall any Farman which is read in JK and there is an explanation based on Imam’s annotations. Have you ?

Imam does not edit Farmans which means Imam does not change them after they are delivered. In any event the authenticity or integrity of Farmans in the book have not been challenged in the lawsuit.

* United Kingdom

No succession Planning ?
On December 29th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I have never heard any Farmans being read in JK, for example during GJ, followed by Imam's explanatory notes on that Farman. The London farman was edited. Why would Imam then say again in Singapore that Leaders are not sharing his guidance his with the Jamat.

If Leaders in question are not sharing Imam's guidance, it follows that Jamat and the leadership generally are not aware and are receiving edited (Changed - different) versions of Imam's guidance generally.

Which Top Leaders are responsible. DJI and the ITREB Global HQ.They are both controlled and managed by Dr SS. I am also amazed that M Keshavjee left as global head of ITREB over 6 months ago, and has not been replaced so far. Dr SS (DJI) is effective interim Head of ITREB and also head of DJI. MK was a governor and Professor Arkhoon died. We now have 2 IIS governors who have not been replaced. Dr SS, is also a Governor of IIS and its "effective" Head.

According to Imam's directives and institutional policies, succession planning is a critical priority and has been ongoing for the last 9 plus years. The question is;

1 Dr SS cant find the right person/s to replace and or strengthen capacity or
2 Dr SS does not want to find them, or
3 Dr SS can't find those who will help him blindly to maintain the status quo ?

There are excellent Ismaili professional available, both voluntary and non voluntary.

* United Kingdom

Soulmate's garbage in and out!!!
On December 28th, 2010 Alnaz J (not verified) says:

Soulmate has questioned the authorization of publishing unannotated farmans. Soulmate does NOT have the ability, capacity nor the wisdom required to analyze these things. It is as if he comes across a pregnant woman and questions whether or not she is a virgin. It betrays his gross lack of wisdom, but is it surprising?

The Imam's offer speaks volumes. No doubt about that.

It is like he is giving us annotated farmans (farmans along with his thought process, never before released to anyone, to my knowledge, and the offer is made to us. I am still in disbelief and awed by the offer, of course when I meet him I will ask for these farmans.

He would never make this offer to us IF he considered as his enemies or if he has really himself written the letters, or affirmation, or brought the claim against us.

Although his leaders are accusing us of theft, the imam is responding by offering us keys and security code to his safe.

Offering us the annotated version of the farmans is so huge, but just as a billion muslims who memorize like puppets the whole Quran but cannot 'see' ayats re the present imam.

Similarly soulmates and his chamchas are blind, their inner eyes sealed while we are offered by the Imam his annotated farmans, and soulmate is concerned about authorization of the farmans - a person has graduated as a heart surgeon from Harvard, and soulmate is wondering if that heart surgeon has his high school diploma. Hmmm, the question itself betrays his real worth - garbage in garbage out.

* Canada

Bloglaw has asked this to be
On December 29th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Bloglaw has asked this to be posted as he has some spam filter issue:

Comment 1
September in Vancouverite says : Bloglaw, Without being entirely certain of how firmans are authorized, once again, It would reckless and unlike MHI to leave it to fallible individuals to put together his Firmans without reviewing them before distribution.

Reply bloglaw :

If you do not know you should feel free to seek information from our Leadership. Maybe you have. When Imam delivers a Farman or a speech to the Jamat or Leaders. There are 2+ recorders attached to the mike system. There is also an independent recording just in case. Then immediately afterwards they are transcribed. With latest technology, during GJ, it is instantaneous. A transcribed copy is handed to Dr SS, Head of ITREB and to MHI (who may or may not annotate or give additional guidance for the Leaders to share with the Jamat). Then usually that day or asap the Farman is read in JK’s .(without the annotations or the related guidance). The Farman is then supposed to be available globally and in all JK’s including in remote locations for Jamat to access and read too (with the annotations)

However If only some excerpts of Farmans or speeches are to be a part of a publication then of course they need to be reviewed for context clarity and messages etc first by IIS. then ITREB and then by MHI. This is what Dr SS may have been referring to when he said IIS are in the process of printing Farmans which has been agreed by MHI in principle.

Comment No 2

Haji in vancouverite says –“Bloglaw, any Imamat publication (Farmans) that has not been approved by H.H. The Aga Khan and officially distributed by the Imamat Institutions, are NOT VALID, ……… who the hell is NT to tell the ismailies world-wide that his (illegal) published books are truly authentic. He can take his (illegal) books to his grave, but spare us ismailies, …. by pretending that you are looking after the originality of the Ismaili Faith. We DON’T NEED YOU OR YOUR GROUP. We have Hazar Imam to take care of it. Can you not get this message through your head!!! Or are you truly a dummkopf”

Reply by bloglaw

Imam (who you confirm is the real Plaintiff), says all Farmans are available in all JK’s including in remote locations (with his annotations ?). However the truth is they are still not available ? The Leader who should make them available is DR SS as head of DJI (and now also ITREB)

Therefore, In your opinion and to be fair does ” WE DONT NEED YOU OR YOUR GROUP”" apply to DR SS too? J.

NT, Imam and DR SS are all effectively agreeing Farmans in the book are authentic because they are not challenging their authenticity or integrity in this lawsuit !

Also Haji, with respect, Farmans are valid immediately as they are Delivered by MHI. They are not Valid after they are edited by Leaders, or when published - read in JK. Imam in most Farmans says we must take with us Imam’s blessings and messages to our Families and to our Jamats. So should we wait for (edited) Farmans before we give Mubaraki and we share Imam’s Farman with love and happiness Of course we don’t and should not wait..

@Alnaz J
On December 28th, 2010 Another Ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

Excellent Reply.

Annotate means ....
On December 29th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Soulmate says : Bloglaw: I knew well in advance that you will land in quicksand and there will be no escape for you. The Imam Himself says that He annotates His Farmans but you go off on a tangent saying that is not so. The Imam spells it out in the court documents that He edits His Farmans and His edited Farmans superced the Oral Farmans but you say that He does not edit His Farmans. So what you are really saying is that the Imam is wrong and you are right; correct? Sorry, I can not ask you to take a hike because you have landed in quick sand; so stay there!

Reply by bloglaw

Hello ! – Please read the meaning and what Imam means when Imam personally said on 15 Oct that Imam “annotates”, (which is totally different to the meaning of “Edits”)

ANNOTATE – verb Definition: WRITE EXPLANATORY NOTES – EXPLANATION – MAKE A STATEMENT OF OPINION

EDIT – verb REWRITE, CHANGE, REFINE CENSOR, ABRIDGE

Soulmate - I am afraid you have proved beyond any reasonable doubt that Alnaz J is right.

* United Kingdom

SEEK KNOWLEDGE IS AN ACT OF FAITH
On December 27th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

In the last 5 years MHI has specifically said the following : That our Tariqah is firstly that of peace and secondly of wisdom & knowledge. We must seek and not reject knowledge or wisdom. They are a part of our daily lives. We must seek knowledge for good purposes and use it for benefit of all. We must share knowledge amongst ourselves. Quran says we must seek knowledge to also better understand creation. A Hadith which says seek knowledge even if it is in China (i.e. Far or difficult to access)

mhi SAYS We must seek to better serve people. searching for knowledge in our Tariqah is a reflection of our faith. If you seek knowledge and use it properly, it is an act of faith (MHI has reassured us). we are all seeking and sharing knowledge and in doing so we are following Imam's guidance.Imam says knowledge was different 50 yeas ago and has expanded and is expanding quickly and enormously. Imam says we also need to know how to use and manage knowledge. Imam has also said that Our institutions and Leaders are there to serve the Jamat and to help us to know and to understand. Imam also said in 2008, we must indulge (seek share and discuss) in knowledge and use it for good purposes. (2005 and 2008).

Your Mukhi Saheb and ITREB will and should be very happy to share these Farmans with any murid who is interested, and tto help them understand and know what they know not.

So there is every reason to for us all to seek and share knowledge and wisdom. (Not seeking knowledge is rejecting knowledge and wisdom)

* United Kingdom

"Better judgment will remove smallness and inequitable complex"
On December 28th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, BLOGLAW! You have mentioned my name somewhere on your blog but I do not see any blog directly addressed to me! However, we cannot look for what is not meant to be seeking out! All contributors are independent and will stress their independence to express their thoughts. Thus, the rationality can only sustain the right from wrong! As far as the Ismaili Muslims Institution is concerned, I assume their autonomy is dependent on the Ismaili Muslims Tariquah. Consequently, the Ismaili Muslims are peaceful and humanitarian. Regarding “knowledge and wisdom,” it grows with experience. This is the raison d’être for us to motivate ourselves voluntarily. These honorary services can take us to the remote part of the world to understand how the humanity have survived where modern technology and modern means of survival are not available! So when our religious conviction is sincerely applied; it will help us to better ourselves to share the joy of our know-how and experience! I do not imagine, anybody would, willingly deny somebody the benefits of knowledge and wisdom. By delegating sincerely your know-how and experience, the burden of any undertaking is shared with better judgment, thus removing smallness and inequitable complex! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

@ Shivji
On December 29th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Reason you did not see my comment is Editor of Vancouverite did not post it. He does not post all which is understandable.

For example he also said he has spoken to me. I responded and said that we have never spoken..We had agreed in an email exchange that we should speak and discuss some 6 months ago but did not.. Maybe you are mistaking me with another conversation

* United Kingdom

SEEK THAT WHICH YOU KNOW NOT
On December 27th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

@Seeker – I agree 100% we should pray and we must also also pray for hakikati Samaj (understanding - wisdom). The Quran and Hazar Imam guides and teaches us to seek knowledge of that which we know not.

In so doing, Hazar Imam has blessed us with Farmans, Institutions, a constitution and specific directions. Therefore when you are concerned and uncertain (as you are). And if you wish to understand and know the truth, then you should seek information or clarity of that which you know not.

Firstly by reading the documents available. Then seek to learn from your Mukhi Saheban’s, ITREB and or the National Council. In your case I feel it may help you to read the directives I have summarized in an earlier post and the Farman I quoted in my open letter to Dr Sachedina (posted earlier. Please feel free and comfortable in quoting them if you need to and clarify them too.

In sincerely seeking information we are not questioning MHI or the leaders. We are in fact following Imam's guidance. Also when you speak to them, you will be also assured that you have the right which Imam has granted to write and submit your Mehmani (Arji) to Hazar Imam. A relevant verse in the Quran is stated below for you to consider too (All 3 translations)

Quran
2:151 (Asad) Even as We have sent unto you an apostle from among yourselves to convey unto you Our messages, and to cause you to grow in purity, and to impart unto you revelation and wisdom, and to teach you that which you knew not
2:151 (Y. Ali) A similar (favour have ye already received) in that We have sent among you an Messenger of your own, rehearsing to you Our Signs, and sanctifying you, and instructing you in Scripture and Wisdom, and in new knowledge.
2:151 (Picktall) Even as We have sent unto you a messenger from among you, who reciteth unto you Our revelations and causeth you to grow, and teacheth you the Scripture and wisdom, and teacheth you that which ye knew not.'

Finally I pray that you will have success in your search both materially and spiritually Ameen.

* United Kingdom

@Bloglaw
On December 27th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Bloglaw. I fully agree with your para. 4, but our Jamat has been brainwashed from the beginning that we are not to question, and I think that the new generation will not accept this. I remember when I was discussing this lawsuit with my relatives, one of them opposed, saying that we should not discuss anything about Hazar Imam. That is the mentality of lot of our Jamati members, I suppose our missionaries have put in the minds of the Jamat that it is "paap" to question. Thank you.

* Canada

It is up to all of us
On December 27th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

It is up to all of us parents, BUI teachers, leaders, al waezeens, Mukhis friends brothers and sisters to help in ensuring that all of us feel comfortable in seeking information knowing that we will be welcomed and we will receive the information and knowledge we are seeking and that we know not.

This forum and lawsuit has been a start. Any Murid who cannot get information and answers they are seeking, will I hope feel comfortable using this forum, and they can be assured that we will help our brothers and sisters.

Yasmin you are right about the present culture which I hope will change sooner rather than later, and there will be an "effective" institutional forum

With Ya Ali Madad

* United Kingdom

Change!!
On December 27th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

MHI in 1986 during USA visit said that many changes, changes more than we could imagine will come to the organization of our jamat, and then said, the jamats thinking proceeds must change. MHI then in Gilgit 1987 march explained the changed thinking process we must go through.

Our jamats and leaders have still not got what MHI wanted us to achieve after expressing it about 23 years ago.

Pity isn't it?

* Canada

I think there has been
On December 28th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I think there has been change in the last 23 years in the demographic and material dynamics of the Jamat which has moved and is organically growing in numbers, by half a million to 1 million a year

if we take the 15 million figure which over the last 10 years is the same figure we hear and in our official websites and communication. if we take 15 million and average family of even 5 , and say 2 children per family added and taking away children under 25, we are looking at an organic addition of well over half a million a year. That is excluding Tajikistan and Afghanistan Jamat numbers in the last 10 years. These numbers and growth is bigger than many countries.

I agree this lawsuit has highlighted serious gaps of the ground realities, which need to be addressed. We must take comfort in that and knowing Imam knows and knows best. Therefore we can also look forward to change for the better which will take time and we must be patient and supportive.

* United Kingdom

More ? OR More of the same !
On December 28th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I did not think of the numbers. before today. Thank you Alibhai and Yasmin whose comment made me reflect on this.

Imagine we therefore will have today over 6 million children in BUI globally and over half a milllion added annually. Wow !. (Assuming access is 90%+)

What a challenge ! Imam has recently signed global agreements with Baclaureate and given the top priority Imam to BUI and education over the last 20 years.

There have been reports and strategies for BUI with a projection of outcomes annually over the last decade. They key for successfully implementation is an effective bridge between BUI and the secular (Din and Dunya) and of embracing a plural culture where we encourage critical enquiry and educate into and not away from creativity. (Excellent 15 minute video of what I mean which you will enjoy http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html - for those more interested also see the lastest from him in May 2010)

Without a tranformative change this cannot be successfully implemented. The ITREB global secretariat has been without an effective full time replacement of the global head of ITREB, for some 6 months so far. I assume Dr SS is overseeing this transition, as they report to him..There must be a good reason for the delay as Imam's directives are clear on succession planning and pre-emption.

If there is no or little peripheral evolutionary or organic change, then in 10 years time we will have more of the same and a continuation of the widening gap.The key is the successful implementation of Imam's Farmans, directions and vision for the Jamat.

* United Kingdom

Supporting the Truth
On December 25th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Is it not inappropriate not to support a person or persons or a group who is on the side of the truth and who have been wronged by others? The above question I posed to my friend who few days back asked me as to why I am supporting the defendants. My considered opinion is that by supporting them even with kind words help them a lot to remain steadfast on high moral ground and the right steps they have taken.

In reality, this way we are not supporting person or persons but the truth, the truth which we firmly believe is on their side. It is the duty, therefore, of every person to extend such support if he has the ability to do so. Participation and discussion in a civilized manner do provide synergic positive effect, provided such discussions remain issue based rather than persons specific. When many persons participate on an issue from different angles and different perspectives with positive attitude, the outcome at the end is bound to be more natural and more stable, and hence, it will have a long lasting positive impact. On the other hand, restricting and impending meaningful discussions is bound to generate suspicions, mistrust and confusion. The end result: more complications and more chaos.

Each intelligent murid must take a stance
On December 26th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I agree. It is important to take a stand in matters of truth and untruth.
Also it is not good to sway here and there and drum on two sides and pretending one is a diplomat and try to keep one feet here and second in another , lest 1 drowns he is safe? Excerpts of ISMS 's firman supports this: Kalame Imame mubin part 1 page 83, firman#32( Ismailia association for India Publication) Jangbar 4th july 1899:
"Make sure you protect your faith like a precious jewel. If you do not there is a very good chance someone can steal it from you. If you have unsecured faith , any one will move it away and you will be the loser .

Also in this faith(Din) you must have one color only. Do not sway here and there. A two color person (double faced hypocrite) will go here and there.If a person does not believe in what we do but believes in the other is better than someone with two colors i.e. a 2 faced hypocrite. You must not be on both sides. Stick to one that is truth which is our Din."

* United States

@Alibhai Jiwani
On December 26th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

AND - If anyone is uncertain or confused, then they should be be honest to themselves and seek more information by reading and asking on this forum or from Dr SS, MM or their national leaders.

* United Kingdom

@Kasamali (Dec. 25th)
On December 25th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed. Not to support the truth, brother Kasamali, is equivalent to support wrong/evil/untruth: in this matter, there cannot be a neutral position, it cannot be gray instead of black or white. In this matter (= the lawsuit), those who are not on the side of truth, are simply unaware (or do not want to know or believe) that no Imam would ever go against the bayyat He has accepted from a mureed and thus no Imam would sue a mureed. It is because this very simple, yet so fundamental, tenet of the faith is not taken into consideration that the jamat seems divided...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

We can't decide what He can and Cannot do
On December 26th, 2010 Seeker (not verified) says:

I feel that I am sitting on the fence in this regard not because I have any less faith.

On one hand, as a mureed, I believe that we cannot and should not decide what Mowla can or cannot do. Who are we to bind the Aql-e-qul with our imperfect aql/wisdom? I believe MHI can do whatever he wishes and it up to us to reconcile our faith to his actions, not the other way around.

On the other hand, given MHI's recent wish to build strong institutions and leadership, I find myself duty bound to respect his institutions and leaders. The individuals may be imperfect or have flaws but the fact that my mowla has appointed them, I should say Ameen. And until MHI (not us) decides otherwise, I feel I should respect his trust in the individuals he has appointed.

Any side I take, I will be disappointing him one way or the other. Although this appears to be a conundrum but more I think about it I am compelled that the best thing for me to do is to keep silent and pray for his mercy on all of us.

* Canada

Reminds me also of MSMS and
On December 27th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Reminds me also of MSMS and his memoirs. MSMS said that we must seek to manage and guide change to suit our desires. We must then desire the outcome rather than try then to suit the outcome to our desires in seeking to manage and guide that change/event. (pre 1967)

In managing and guiding change, we need to seek knowledge and understand. In order to seek knowledge and understanding we need to "indulge""\ in knowledge (MHI 2008).

* United Kingdom

@Seeker
On December 26th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

If one really cares , one must seek the "Knowledge". That is study the entire case with open mind and then use your own intellect to decide what do you believe. If still undecided seek in your "prayers" right direction . You will find the answer since you sound like a sincere believer in search of truth.
Mawla will guide you.

* United States

Spreading Facts or Fiction
On December 25th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Nightmare in Vancouverite says “…. Alnaz Jiwa failed to confess that Nagib Tajdin has invented some excerpts of Farmans in the Infringement Material. Alnaz Jiwa’s ilm-net (nicknamed as satan’s net) had produced proof in this regards. … Bloglaw do you want a copy of this transcript ? …… Alnaz Jiwa had stated that “Mr. Manji [President of Council for Canada] insisted that the web sites cause a lot of problems and confusion in the Jamats, His Highness responded to him saying, “it would be nice if we spoke with one voice, why cannot you work together?”. Factual evidence points to the contrary: …. Notwithstanding the lies of Alnaz Jiwa, every murid of the Imam-of-the-Time, should forever stop visiting Nagib Tajdin’s website.

Bloglaw reply - If you have a copy of what Alnaz has stated personally, I would be certainly be interested in reading it, and so would many others. The fact is Alnaz was not and has not been contacted by the Leaders nor was that letter from MHI addressed to him.

I would also be interested in the factual evidence you say you have of what Imam said on 15th October 2010 you say - "His Highness responded to him saying it would be nice if we spoke with one voice, why cannot you work together?”. Factual evidence points to the contrary.." I would also be interested in the factual evidence you say you have that Nagib you say "has invented some excerpts of Farmans in the Infringement Material" the contrary.."

On 15th Oct 2010, Imam did not ask Nagib to stop his website. There has never been any LIF announcement regarding that website. So why should Ismaili's not continue to visit a website which has a wonderful wealth of resources available free of cost. Dr SS & MM would obviously like to stop that website.

Even if a website is publishing something against Ismailies, why should we not visit that website to learn and understand.Imam and IIS encourages us to seek share and learn so that we can lead and to do so we must understand and respect and be tolerent of all points of views. I suggest you read Imam’s speech on 15 October and visit the website of the Pluralism Centre and read the objectives and goals.

* United Kingdom

Vancouverite misleading as usual.
On December 25th, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

I can see that Vancouverite is having Nightmare about Imam accepting that every lucky person that has the Golden Edition Farmans keeps it :-)

Bloglaw has quoted Vancouverite saying "Alnaz Jiwa failed to confess that Nagib Tajdin has invented some excerpts of Farmans in the Infringement Material."

Well the answer is simple, The Imam having accepted that everyone can keep the book of Farman, who are these people questioning his Wisdom and saying there is invented content in the Farman Book accepted by the Imam Himself?

Can they not understand that by criticizing the Farmans, they have themselves alienated their own right [if they had any] to access the Farmans?

Nagib

Confess??
On December 26th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Bloglaw has quoted Vancouverite saying "Alnaz Jiwa failed to confess that Nagib Tajdin has invented some excerpts of Farmans in the Infringement Material."

What does the above quote say or imply? Whoever wrote it needs to explain what is meant by the above quote. AssumIng that he is suggesting that Farmans in the book being distributed are not authentic, all I can say that neither the Statement of Claim, nor the evidence filed nor in the cross examinations conducted is there any suggestion of any Farman wrongfully transcribed or invented, and SS or MM or the Institutions could and would have given evidence that invented Farmans have been published.

In the court the only argument was whether there was consent to publish, not whether any farmans were false or invented farmans. Invented farmans would automatically be considered wrong and damages ordered and injunction issued.

* Canada

Actually few years back SS
On December 26th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

As received from nagib:

Actually few years back SS told me they had checked all the books [The last one was not yet published], he was referring to the first 3 books of KIZ series and he said they found them to be "accurate to the dot".

Nagib

A good professional in
On December 25th, 2010 Amir (not verified) says:

A good professional in reading comments here and in vancouverite websites will come to the conclusion and recommend change of mindset and management of the change.

I would add that this holistic change will come not from come from progressive evolution alone, but a transformative revolution. As Late professor Arkhoon (Governor of IIS) used to say we will need to deconstruct and reconstruct our thinking completely. He was referring to the study of Quran.

We have excellent creative professional Resourses who have offered a TKN Nazrana under the GJ initiatives.

As some commentators have rightly said change will take time. Managed and measurable implementation of change with a holistic approach and strategies, will require a minimum of 5 years if fully supported institutionally.

The challenge as is normal in many FP and NFP conglomerates is acknowledgment and acceptance by firstly the need, and secondly the need for a new TKN resourced change team which is then empowered, creative, and professional. The team and goals also needs to be holistic, inclusive, global and action centric for expected outcomes.

* United Kingdom

I agree and to acheive
On December 26th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I agree and to achieve expected outcomes sooner rather than later, I would suggest that such a cross functional team should report direct to LIF( as a body) for them to deliberate and present their views to MHI for guidance,.with recommendations for Implementation.Let us hope some of the current members of LIF may be considering this for their next meeting, if they have not already done so.

* United Kingdom

@Nagib re: above post of Dec. 25th
On December 25th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Touché, Nagib !! :-) I love the pun "...is having Nightmare..." Thanks for the humour!

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Reasons why ?
On December 23rd, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Since 15th October upto date I wonder if Mr Gray or Dr SS and MM, have explained or discussed with Alnaz or Nagib the reasons why an admission of copyright infringement is legally necessary and particularly why it will give more legal protection to MHI against any furture infringements by anyone ?

* United Kingdom

Pensées pour Nagib, Alnaz
On December 24th, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

Chers frères Nagib et Alnaz, Ya ali Madat,

Nous arrivons à la fin de l’année 2010 et malgré les Directives très précises et inspirées de Mowlana Hazar Imam lors de l’entretien du 15 octobre et Ses remarques durant Son discours sur le Pluralisme, nos leaders n’ont pas saisi la portée de ces Hidayaths et continuent à désespérer un grand nombre de frères et ismailis à travers le monde. Et ceci est très grave et nous rend très tristes.

En ce qui me concerne, je suis plus que convaincu, cette forme d’intime conviction, que Mowlana Hazar Imam n’a pas initié, n’a pas souhaité ce « lawsuit » contre vous ! Je ne vous connais pas, je ne vous ai jamais rencontré mais j’ai une profonde gratitude, admiration et estime pour le travail de diffusion des Farmans que vous avez réalisé pour vos frères et sœurs ismailis. C’est une œuvre remarquable, très louable et une marque absolue de votre attachement indéfectible à l’Autorité Spirituelle de Mowlana Hazar Imam. Vous êtes Ses murids et Sa Grâce et Sa Miséricorde vous accompagnent ! Quelque soit l’issue de ce regrettable « lawsuit », vous aurez toujours ma reconnaissance !

Quand j’ai voulu approfondir notre Tariqah, me lancer dans cette quête spirituelle que Mowla Bapa prône de tous Ses vœux pour Ses murids, le document de couverture bleu avec les Farmans du Bhaitoul-Khyal que vous aveiz préparé m’a beaucoup servi. Je me suis plongé à la compréhension détaillée des Farmans de Mowla Bapa. Et quelque part, je vous dois ma formation, ma compréhension de cette quête via l’Ibaddat.

Aussi, lors de l’anniversaire de Mowla Bapa le 13 décembre dernier, je me trouvais à Cotonou (Bénin) et l’hôtel où je me trouvais, devant l’immensité de l’océan, j’ai bien sûr eu des pensées pour Mowla Bapa, pour tous les frères et sœurs ismailis et pour vous deux aussi qui traversaient depuis des mois des épreuves difficiles. Permettez-moi de vous soumettre et de vous offrir ainsi qu’à tous les internautes de ce site ce que j’ai rédigé ce jour la.
Avec mes affectueuses pensées fraternelles et passez de bonnes fêtes de fin d’année !

Un songe, un rêve
Ou une réalité subtile !

J’ai conscience que mon âme détient un secret, caché dans mon jardin fleuri. Et je sais depuis cette union par le Bhayat que le code d’accès est la voie de l’Ibaddat. C’est un chemin, une quête personnelle qui s’ouvre vers un champ de liberté, avec la certitude d’atteindre un havre de paix, de sérénité et de bonheur. C’est un acte réfléchi, libre, en en parfait accord avec mon esprit, mon cœur et mon intellect. Un voyage vers une rencontre lumineuse et harmonieuse!
L’Ibaddat est une approche très sérieuse, la plus aboutie de notre Tariqah. C’est une quête personnelle, intime, un cheminement qui donne un sens à nos rêves et au-delà des attentes c’est un voyage où une Rencontre est possible ! Ilest possible de sentir un bras posé sur notre épaule, un visage ou un regard posé sur nous, nous pouvons établir un dialogue, approfondir les échanges et forger de solides convictions sur les dimensions spirituelles du Din et du Dounia.
On avance sur une route lumineuse et cette quête nous offre cette rencontre avec nous même, avec ce que nous aimons, nos faiblesses, nos espoirs, nos prières, nos doutes, nos soucis, nos craintes….avec le secret de notre âme ! Un champ fertile et libre ! L’inquiétude se libère et se perd dans ce lieu sans bord ! On a la place, l’univers sans fin pour soi ! Mais une lumineuse Unlimited vision !

Mais ce chemin est certes difficile, une Grâce du Tout Puissant, fait de patience, d’humilité, de modestie. Et même si les doutes reviennent, se font entendre, les pressions de la vie courante nous submergent, brouillent les messages fondamentaux …..il nous faut tenir la barre, rester sur ce chemin du Siratal-mustaquim, …..Il est là avec nous, nous accompagne, nous prépare des bagages plus légers, nous aider dans nos envols… et finit toujours à nous livrer aux lumières du jour ce que nous ne savons pas dire, nos craintes et nos faiblesses ! Les portes s’ouvrent d’elle mêmes, un parchemin est proposé, quelques cartes sont soulevées….des morceaux manquants à notre intellect sont retrouvés….. »Je suis toujours avec vous » !
Et tous les rendez vous durant cette heure de l’Ibaddat ont le même sens…La route est longue, pas facile mais devient de plus en plus désirable car notre quête est insatiable !

Ces moments de Concentration, un temps où l’esprit s’évapore, une sorte de musique, des vibrations, des éclairs de lumière… des mots, des conversations, des murmures que l’on ne maîtrise plus, ces lignes d’errance, d’abandon, où on se laisse aller. Un passeur nous a aidé à prendre l’envol ! »Aucun désert, aucun océan, aucune montagne n’arrivera à séparer l’Imam de Ses Murids » !

Partons, soyons réguliers, restons derrière la voilure ! Mowla nous épaulera et nous aidera à accéder à des découvertes « à peine pensables », l’impensable à nos yeux, l’inexplicable, des secrets, les clés de la sagesse, de la tolérance, de la compassion…l’Amour ! Accéder à ce qu’il ya de plus vrai en nous !
Ce n’est pas une idée,
Ce n’est pas une émotion,
Ce n’est pas un vertige,
Ce n’est pas une utopie,
Ce n’est pas un Effroi,
C’est une réalité,
C’est une rencontre,
C’est un chant d’amour,
Une victoire sur l’inquiétude,
C’est une vision,
C’est une recherche de l’équilibre,
C’est ce qu’il ya de plus vrai en nous !
Mohez nato

* France

@Mohez Nato (re: above post, Dec. 24)
On December 25th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Comme vous avez adressé les réflexions ci-dessus aux internautes aussi, je me permets d'y réagir : vous êtes poète aussi, Mohez ! Puissiez-vous continuer à progresser sur la voie sur laquelle vous cheminez avec Lui à vos côtés. Ameen. J'espère que votre séjour à Cotonou aura donné les résultats escomptés. J'ai été surprise l'autre jour de lire qu'il était interdit de mendier au Bénin...

A propos, avant que je n'oublie de vous le dire! Votre lettre du 19 novembre avait été expédiée au LIF et au Conseil de France.

Je me joins à vous pour renouveler mes remerciements bien sincères et chaleureuses à Nagib et à son équipe pour la publication des livres de Farman (si vous n'avez pas celui qui est au centre du procès, j'espère de tout coeur qu'il vous sera donné un jour de le posséder et de le parcourir : il contient des trésors !!! Sa lecture me procure toujours un bonheur indicible.) : on leur doit une dette qui ne pourra jamais, au grand jamais, être acquittée. Sans nul doute, Mowla Bapa les récompensera infiniment. Louanges à Mowla Bapa de nous avoir jugés dignes de recevoir ce cadeau sans pareil que sont ces livres, et, aussi, ce site qui met à notre portée tant de belles choses, tant de bonheur...Et à Alnaz je renouvelle mes voeux de courage pour cette lutte si pénible. "Satya mèv jayatè."

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

French to English translation from Google translator
On December 24th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

French to English translation
Thoughts for Nagib, Alnaz
On December 24th, 2010 mohez nato (not verified) says:
Dear brothers, Nagib and Alnaz, Ya ali Madat,

We arrive at the end of 2010 and despite the very specific guidelines and Mowlana Hazar Imam inspired at the meeting of 15 October and her remarks during his speech on Pluralism, our leaders have not grasped the scope of Hidayaths and these continue to despair many brothers and Ismailis worldwide. And this is very serious and makes us very sad.

In my case, I am more convinced that this form of intimate conviction that Mowlana Hazar Imam has not started, did not want this "lawsuit" against you! I do not know, I've never met but I have a deep appreciation, admiration and esteem for the work of disseminating Farmans that you did for your brothers and sisters Ismailis. It is a remarkable piece, very commendable and a mark of your absolute unwavering commitment to the Authority Mowlana Hazar Imam Spiritual. You are murids His and Her Grace and Mercy are with you! Whatever the outcome of this unfortunate "lawsuit" you'll always have my gratitude!

When I wanted to deepen our Tariqah, get into the spiritual quest that Mowla Bapa advocates of all His wishes for his murids, blue paper cover with the Farmans Bhaitoul-Khyal you Aveize prepared me a lot served. I immersed myself in the detailed understanding of Mowla Bapa Farmans. And somewhere, I owe you my background, my understanding of this quest through Ibaddat.

Also, on the anniversary of Mowla Bapa December 13 last, I found myself in Cotonou (Benin) and the hotel where I was, at the immensity of the ocean, of course I had thoughts for Mowla Bapa for all Ismaili brothers and sisters and you two also crossing for months of difficult trials. Let me submit to you and offer you and all users of this site that I wrote that day.
With my affectionate thoughts go fraternal and a happy holiday season!

A dream, a dream
Or a subtle reality!

I realize that my soul has a secret hidden in my flower garden. And since I know this union Bayat the access code is the way to Ibaddat. It is a journey, a personal quest that opens to a field of freedom, with the certainty of achieving a haven of peace, serenity and happiness. It is a deliberate act, free, in perfect agreement with my mind, my heart and my intellect. A trip to a meeting bright and smooth!
The Ibaddat is a very serious approach, the most successful of our Tariqah. This is a personal quest, intimate, a journey that gives meaning to our dreams and beyond expectations is a journey where a meeting is possible! Itis possible to feel an arm resting on our shoulder, a face or a gaze fixed on us, we can establish a dialogue, deepen exchanges and forge strong convictions about the spiritual dimensions of Din and Dunya.
We proceed along the road bright and this quest gives us the encounter with ourselves, with what we love, our weaknesses, our hopes, our prayers, our doubts, our anxieties, our fears .... With the secret of our soul! A fertile field and free! The concern is released and is lost in this place without board! It was instead the endless universe for himself! But a bright vision Unlimited!

But this path is certainly difficult, grace of the Almighty, is patience, humility, modesty. Even if doubts come, are heard, the pressures of everyday life overwhelm us, blurring the fundamental messages ... .. we must take the stand, stay on this path-Siratal mustaquim ... .. He is there with us, with us, preparing us for lighter luggage, help us in our flight ... and always ends up to give us the light of day what we do not say, our fears and weaknesses! The doors open by themselves, a parchment was proposed, some cards are raised. ... Missing pieces to our intellect are found ... .. "I am always with you!
And all appointments during this time of Ibaddat have the same meaning ... The road is long, not easy but becomes increasingly desirable as our insatiable quest!

These moments of concentration, a time when the spirit evaporates, a kind of music, vibration, flashes of light ... the words, conversations, whispers that you no longer control, these lines of wandering, abandonment, where we let go. A smuggler helped us take off! "No desert, no ocean, no mountain happen to separate the Imam of His Muridae!

Let's go, let's regular stay behind the wing! Mowla support us and help us get to discoveries "barely thinkable," the unthinkable to us, the inexplicable, the secret keys of wisdom, tolerance, compassion ... Love! Access to what is most true in us!
This is not an idea,
This is not an emotion
This is not a giddy,
This is not a utopia,
This is not a dread,
It is a reality
This is a meeting,
It is a love song,
A victory over worry,
It is a vision,
It is a quest for balance,
That is what is most true in us!
Mohez nato

replyFrance
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* United States

Contscts wuth SS or MM
On December 23rd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

No, MM or SS has not ever spoken with me or even discussed anything with me. Q why do they insist on infringement.

Remember that SS opposed MHI's confirmation that all distributed books can be kept and not to return. SS sought to make MHI reverse his decision (which he said twice), so they are dying to win the case so they can force the Jamats to return of all books. Their purpose for infringement is in direct contradiction (Gray's revised consent supports our version of what happened on Oct 15.)

They have no desire to follow imam's direction

* Canada

Leaders top down. should ask
On December 24th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Leaders top down. should ask themselves the following questions, which many if not most are asking.

1. Have we followed Imam's Farmans to resolve differences internally

2. Have we followed Imam,s institutional directives in the reports prepared before and after the lawsuit was filed? Have we asked to read the reports?

3. Have we followed Imam,s directions of 15th Oct 2010?

4. Do we know the reasons why an admission of infringement is so critical ? And based on the 7 reasons why with respect infringement it is a non issue for the consent as directed by MHI ?

5. Do we know Why is Imam waiting and spent 30 minutes on 15 th October and instead of saying may I make a suggestion Imam if Imam wished could have said for example I would like to reassure you I am the plaintiff and it is my wish that you withdraw all allegations and agree to judgement on all claims in the lawsuit?

Imam has reminded Leaders to regularly ask of themselves if they have followed Imam's guidance and farmans and if they have fulfilled all their responsibilities.

If any leader feels he or she has not, then Imam says it is his wish and desire that they should make every possible effort to do so.

In this case Dr SS and MM have clearly not. Other especially top leaders should not wait and certainly approach and discuss with Dr SS and MM and amongst themselves so they fully understand precisely what are the differences and to read the legal and opinion of the leaders in the report presented to MHI Which will be incisive on the issue of an admission to infringement and on the draft consent signed by Alnaz and Nagib.

I hope therefore each leader who has not will ask of themselves and do the right thing because this lawsuit affects the jamat and therefore each leader in their seva and responsibilities to and for the Jamat.

* United Kingdom

@ Bloglaw: The leaders and Ostrich attitudes.
On December 24th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Over 90 percent of the leaders do not follow the case .Only top few involved may be following.
They do not go on either website hence the knowledge about the case is not there.Period.
They believe what is told to them by their superiors.
Over years all of them have been taught not to question anything that comes from LIF because it is all MHI 's directions
It is an inbreed culture cultivated over the last decade or so.
Only the YES Men have survived to secure their positions, a true key.
An Ostrich burying his head in the ground and ignoring everything else but itself.

Every leader I have spoken to knew nothing about the lawsuit.
Half of them believe it was settled when MHI came to Toronto.
Others believe plaintiff being MHI of course he must have already won , no question.
One leader was so ignorant he said Alnaz is a lady from Canada?
Few others believe they have nothing to do with it.
Their lives and work is same ( Which is status Quo ofcourse) Easy as ever.

It is Only Mawla who is working all the time
Some good leaders involved in grassroot projects are so involved and busy they do not have time to follow this court case.
They cant be bothered!
So however vital it is what is posted here by bloglaw and Moez Nato the audience is miniscule.
Hence the thoughts and ideas and legitimate questions of all the thinkers and well wishers and intellectuals is not welcomed.

* United States

Many leaders say they do not
On December 24th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Many leaders say they do not follow this case or know about it because they do not wish to eneter into that discussion with you at that time. This is simply a diplomatic response.

My experience is most Leaders and the Jamat know and are happy to talk individually, confidentially and selectively. What is most important and wonderful is that they all come to know in any event. Hence the audience, interest, concern and reach are all significant.

I agree some specific leaders in question have managed to exercise excessive unilateralism in the last decade or so, at the expense of the right balance of din and dunya and the checks and balances. Hence the need to reverse this pervasive and widening gap..

However as a result of the lawsuit Leaders top down are now aware and know. Any significant and noticeable change and a especially a change of mindset will take time and we must be patient. Meanwhile and as directed by MHI, we must give feed back and continue to give our support to our Leaders top down.

We must also give credit to ALL leaders where it is due for the excellent work and progress facilitated and enabled by Hazar Imam.

* United Kingdom

Do miracles happen?
On December 22nd, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Do miracles happen? Yes, they used to happen in the past and they also happen in this age. Similarly, we can say about Leelas (plays); thy used to take place in the past during the time of nine Avatars and also used to take place during our previous Imams. He does such Leelas even now. It depends upon individual’s perception and outlook to observe and understand them.
Here are some of His Leelas in this case.
Leela # 1:
Gray was pressing very hard for summary judgment, from the beginning, soon after cross examinations were over. On the other hand, defendants were pressing for discovery prior to judgment.
Defendants were successful in creating doubt in the mind of Prothonotary about the plaintiff’s identity, and hence able to get discovery order. Gray did not expect this and hence was terrified and got panicky, because by his own efforts, and for obvious reasons, he was not in a position to produce HI for discovery. He rushed to Ottawa judge in panicky mode with 24 page motion application, but there too he had no luck. However, with the help of SS and MM, he was able to produce HI in the discovery meeting.
We will just see as to how this order of discovery was itself a part of Leelas.
Leelas #2:
HI did appear for discovery. Most of people say that He was there as a part of court judgment. But inner reality was something else. But that requires a different mindset to understand it.
It was Nagib’s prerogative to appoint appropriate recording person from the court, but he somehow, it seems, forgot to do it, and instead, Gray hired one of his choice. However, this oversight/ mistake of Nagib went into defendants favour. How? Here is the answer.
Had Nagib hired a recording person, he would have recorded entire 30 minutes conversations, and hence every thing would have been clear to such an extent that Gray/SS/ MM had no option but to agree to consent judgment within a day or two, and the case must have been settled immediately.
Had the case been settled this way, just after 15th October meeting, the Ismailis of Vancouverite type, in general, would have started the propaganda that the case indeed had been filed by HI, but He, in His infinite mercy, compelled his lawyer Gray for consent judgment. These people in that case would have been successful to convince the entire jamat that the defendants’ acts since 1992 had been destructive for the entire global jamat and that their only intentions were to slender leadership in the guise of Mehmani and, at the same time, mint money by printing of Farman books.
But He perhaps has a different plan and led Nagib to make this oversight/mistake of not hiring a recording person.
This is Leela # 2.
Leela #3:
Just at the beginning of discovery meeting, as soon as Nagib handed over his January 4th letter to HI, Gray snatched that letter from HI’s hands. HI acted innocently as if no thing has happened. This is Leela#3. How? Let us see this too.
Had Gray not snatched that letter, HI would have read it and naturally would have asked him as what he wants to say, and Nagib would have asked those five questions related to this case and would have also clarified,” Khudavind, did you write those letters and are you the plaintiff in this case.” And HI’s direct reply one way or the other would have ended the case one way or the other. But here too it seems, He had a different plan, perhaps to let the case proceed further so as to enable the real truth to prevail.
This is Leela# 3.
Leela#4:
On 7th December, during proceeding of summary judgment Gray and SS arranged to present Carnegie, HI’s staff lawyer, in the court and introduce him to the judge to impress him and, at the same time, to intimidate both the defendants. But their whole plan failed as Al Naz has found out the stud case 2000 in which Carnegie was also involved.
This is Leela#4
General:
From point of view of defendants the discovery meeting was indeed a positive one. HI was not only empathetic to them by answering some of the Tariqa related queries, but also assured them that He would meet them again and work with them. While the same meeting with limited recording was not of much help to Gray, SS and MM.
Conclusion:
I feel, we may expect some more Leelas and with the aggregate effect of each such Leelas, the case is inching gradually to wards real truth, and as a result many positive outcomes will follow too.

Miracle, strange, Leela Providence....
On December 24th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Dr SS, MM and AK are using the very best legal brains and necessary resources money can buy. Before the cross examination of SS & AK, they all knew what questions & issues which will be raised. They will have considered all the issues and the articulation of their responses in detail and comprehensively. They will have had the option of mock questions and answers. with Mr Gray, his team and or Mr Carnegie They have also had in addition our institutional leadership training sessions annually for the last 18 years..

Instead of carefully prepared and articulated responses, both Dr SS and AK demonstrated and confirmed a no care attitude by making at best statements which show a lack of respect and understanding for our Tariquah, and consequently the Jamat and The Imamat.

So who is helping to ensure that the real truth comes out in the open and that too, DIRECTLY from the leaders in question. Anyone can read and decide this for themselves.(Umed please can you add the link on this website).

Call it a Miracle, Leela, providence, strange or a combination of such names and coincidences. The truth would not otherwise have been known.

After the meeting on 15 Oct 2010, Alnaz has confirmed that there have been no meetings or discussions nor reasons explained why an admission of infringement is critical for the purposes of consent and settlement as directed by Hazar Imam.

Dr SS & MM are clearly not following Imam's Farmans or the institutional directives to settle the only difference remaining in this case by arbitration or discussion with the 2 murids..

Imam reminded us of the divine in his speech on 15 October 2010 ".....In acknowledging the immensity of The Divine, we will also come to acknowledge our human limitations, the incomplete nature of human understanding. In that light, the amazing diversity of Creation itself can be seen as a great gift to us – not a cause for anxiety but a source of delight. Even the diversity of our religious interpretations can be greeted as something to share with one another – rather than something to fear..."

In giving feed back I am acknowledging humbly that none of us are perfect. Hazar Imam has confirmed clearly that perfection is Allah’s alone. We must not therefore not seek perfection from our Leaders, we must be generous and supportive. However we must expect performance not perfection, we must also expect competence answerability and capability (1992).

* United Kingdom

"We must expect performance not perfection"
On December 24th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, BLOGLAW! Thank you for acknowledging in Ismaili.Net, dated December 24, 2010 about the Ismaili Muslims Institutional leadership training sessions annually for the last 18 years! You do admit that the said leadership have the necessary resources to provide them with first–hand know how and training! The Ismaili Muslims Tariquah has enlightened the Jamat and the leadership about the Imam of the time and the Ismailism to an extent that everybody in the Community knows about the protocol, code of behaviour, and etiquette which we all have witnessed during Mawlana Hazar Imam’s Golden Jubilee. This has happened to stay up to date with the time. Our training and education in educated and well-informed countries have given us the opportunity to become scholar, academic, philosopher, etc. These academics are meticulously researching our hereditary, our culture, and our religious conviction. In this era, it has become mandatory who we are and where do we stand? Hazar Imam has articulated in His Farman in India that the grievance about the Ismaili Muslims Institution and it leadership is not fair because nobody is perfect with the exception of Allah! Therefore in your own words Bloglaw, I quote: In giving feed back I am acknowledging humbly that none of us are perfect. Hazar Imam has confirmed clearly that perfection is Allah’s alone. We must not, therefore, seek any perfection from our Leaders; we must be generous and supportive. However we must expect performance not perfection, we must also expect competence answerability and capability (1992), unquote. Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

@kasamali
On December 23rd, 2010 An ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

I frankly admit that I do not understand much about Leela. But yes, some strange positive things are happening with this case. Let us all continue to pray for such more positive things.

@Kasamali
On December 23rd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I fully agree with you.
What is apprent is not truth and what is truth is not apparent.
But everything will play out smoothly in due course.
My faith is defendants will be the winners.

* United States

Mawla is al rehman,al
On December 23rd, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Mawla is al rehman,al raheem, Mawla is maha dayaru and mamtaru, Mawla is al Karim.

How can Mawla take legal action against one of his Murid knowing none of his leaders has even approached or wrote any letters to him (if he authorised letters) - Alnaz. I say never - If Mawla would never then why Alnaz was included as a defendant and is still a defendant , and why no conciliation, meeting, and why Dr SS and MM as leaders not following Imam's guidance, Farmans and Directives.

Would Mawla say that Farmans are available in all JK's including in remote locations if they are in fact not. (I say never !) Before that statement was released in court why did not Leaders or Mr Gray make sure this was true ?

Would Mawla ever give directions and Farmans and go againt his own Farman and directions ? I say never !

Why bring Mr Carnegie to the court and announce him to the judge when in fact Mr Gray is best of the best lawyer ?

Taubha"! Taubha !

Leaders need to ask, review and not just sit and wait but they sould discuss amongst themselves to conclude this case as directed by MHI.on 15 October 2010. According to Dr SS statements under oath he did say MHI wanted him to discuss this amongst the leaders.

It is never too late to do so now. We all know from experience or fromTv/Films/documentaries, that cases and disputes are settled at the 11th hour all the time. The stud case quoted was settled.

* United Arab Emirates

what is going on
On December 22nd, 2010 imran (not verified) says:

its been a while since we heard what is going on. Can some one update thanks.

* United States

Everyone is waiting for the
On December 22nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Everyone is waiting for the judgment to read how the Judge arrived at his conclusions whatever they are and which party fought the case in a more convincing manner. Both parties had about 25 previous cases to support their stand, both books of authorities submitted are voluminous. We forecast however a long judgment [many pages] explaining many issues raised during the Motions. It is only reading the explanations in the judgment that we will know if the Ismaili community's workings and what is the status of the Imam, if these points have been explained properly during the Motions.

Ideally the Imam should have been the one writing the judgment. It was unfortunate that even though the Consent Judgment was signed exactly according to the Imam's s instructions by the defendants, it was not acceptable to SS and MM who are directing this case. And it is even more unacceptable that after the Imam said in details that he remembers the 1992 Mehmani instruction to continue publishing Farmans, Gray is still following SS and MM instructions while pretending to represent the Imam. The fact that the Imam found nothing wrong with the Farman Book and allowed everyone to keep it should have been an eye opener.

SS's attempted stunt of sending the lawyer Carnegie to sit within the audience during the Motion has backfired as thanks to his presence, search was done and his name was found in another case involving fraud in the Aga Khan stud.

We can conclude that at the discovery the Imam took the horse to the water but the horse refused to drink. In due time the Imam will tackle these rogue elements. Meanwhile, patience is the name of the game. It has been a long year for the community. Happy New Year to all!

@librarian-umed above post (Dec. 22nd)
On December 23rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Please, Umed, when the Judge's decision is made, do not forget to present it to us in plain English, so that people like me can understand what is meant :-)! Thank you in advance!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

that is why mowla said "we shall meet again"
On December 22nd, 2010 imran (not verified) says:

yes that is why mowla said we shall meet again. First meeting was to show mercy on the leaders and the second meeting will be to save his true momins. i say this both tajidin and alnaz were very lucky to talk to mowla and have a mulaqat with him. Not every one is lucky enough to be bestowed that honor.

* United States

Do you belive that ours is a batuni Faith
On December 22nd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Do you believe that ours is a "batuni faith" and Hazar imam is "All-knowing"? If answer to my question is "Yes" then
Hazar Imam is the one who is going to be writing the judgement indeed!! All will be fine for defendants and Jamat Inshaallah.

I was watching a movie "Miracle on the 34 th street" , an all time American favorite during Christmas where the judge in New York had to rule whether there is a Santa clause or it is just a fantasy? After very interesting court proceedings mostly favoring logic over Faith finally to everyone's surprise the judge had to rule that he believes there is Santaclause to save the faith and hope of millions of children worldwide based on series of events that took place just before the verdict was to be given!

So just wait and watch.

* United States

“Allah Is All Knowing And Infinite With Grace and Mercy!”
On December 21st, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YA-ALI-MADAT, LIBRARIAN UMED, MS ZEENATARA, YASMIN, AND MOMIN! Foremost, please accept my thanks for your explanation and clarification regarding the usage of expressions and idioms. Figuratively, one way or another, it is a matter of unimportant to become an issue! Ms Zeenatara what has come to light between Dr. Shafique Sachedina and you is bygone and since its publication as an “Open Letter” in this website, its contents were released to all readers. For that reason we have duly noted your intention with our comments which are in no way a reprimand to you! It is not a judgment but a polite caution to be more ambassadorial. Like us you felt to make your voice louder, and you succeeded in getting a reply! Mawlana Hazar Imam and the Ismaili Muslims Community never judge their own. But seek resolution within or by legal means! Let me declare to you there is no partition of any sort. Whatever has come out has happened! This litigation is a now a public matter. It is open and unrestricted! Therefore, any reader is at liberty to express his/her thoughts as deemed fit. This issue is like a penny dropped in an ocean! It will fade away in time with or without repercussion! I agree with you that we should pray to seek Allah’s infinite grace and mercy. We should also beg for His ‘Rahem’ to differentiate between good and bad. Mawlana Hazar Imam is philanthropist and humanitarian. He is our Spiritual Father. Therefore, let us make good of our commitment with good intention to love Him and our own! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Diplomacy
On December 22nd, 2010 Suleman (not verified) says:

It's interesting to note that Sister Zeenatara is being advised to become more ambassadorial in her communications with the leaders and yet, the language used against the defendants on the Vancouverite posts is far from civil and diplomatic. So is it only our leaders who deserve respect and diplomacy and others, whom leaders are opposing, are no longer human beings worthy of any respect and diplomacy? Do they not have emotions? Feelings? When writing about them is it to be forgotten that they also have children and families who will read this kind of language against them and be thoroughly horrified and extremely hurt?

I join sister Zeenatara in her appeal that everyone should keep their opinions to themselves and just pray for unity and restoration of equilibrium. After all, if a decision in this case is taken against the defendants that decision would be the judge's decision and not Hazar Imam's decision. So with all due respect, let us stop these discussions because it is very difficult for us to maintain the delicate boundary between opinion and judgement. And with more and more discussions, this boundary is likely to be crossed and has been crossed as far as I am concerned.

Division
On December 22nd, 2010 Concerned!! (not verified) says:

I don't fully agree with you. MSMS has differentiated between Ismailis and TRUE Ismailis, in a number of farmans (eg. Chandraat). MSMS also has also said there are aneek (plenty) of Yezid/Shimar like people sitting here in the jamat.

If we read our history there are many many leaders (incl.some from his family) who have betrayed the imam and his jamats.

Today is not different. There is no doubt at all of SS and MM's status - if you read SS's transcript you have no choice but to say that he is worse, and those who continue to support him cant be different - they are of same cloth, enemies of the imam and the Jamat, Not surprising at all.

Read MSMS's farmans to understand or to identify these types of people,

* Canada

Mowla's Grace
On December 21st, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Zeenatara. I agree with you and others. These 2 Murids Nagib and Alnaz love Our Beloved Hazar Imam, and Mowla knows that. The issue up here is "publishing of Farmans", and unfortunately it went into a lawsuit. Our Mowla was so gracious to both of them, blessed them on Oct.15 not for 5 mins. but for 30 mins., because He loves them both. This issue is between our Mowla, Nagib and Alnaz. We have "no right" to say as to what should be done to these 2 Murids, and indirectly try to tell Mowla as to what He should do with them. Other sites and their groups should just leave them alone, and let Mowla make a decision. Infact they as good ismailis should go to Jamatkhana and pray for their spiritual brothers Nagib and Alnaz, then Mowla will be very happy.

We all should make Our Beloved Hazar Imam always happy, because He has sacrificed His entire life for our Ismaili Jamat, and He loves us more than we love Him. Thank you.

* Canada

Mowla mera kazi
On December 21st, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

Further to my concerns voiced in my previous comment posted yesterday, this painful division in our jamat would never have happened if we had just followed our Imam's firman: Only Mowla is allowed to judge, He is THE judge. Nobody else has that right. However, it seems we have been very quick to judge on this case and that is why this split has occurred.
As soon as this case surfaced, we should all have bowed our heads and begged Mowla for His infinite mercy in order to restore unity. Instead, we started taking sides immediately and became judges. According to our Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah (SAW) the difference between man and animal (insaan and haivaan) is that man has the power to differentiate between good and evil and in this case, the good and right thing to do would be to join hands and beg Mowla to restore unity in our jamat by forgiving both parties. It is not too late to do so, so let us stop deciding ourselves who is right and who is wrong and instead pray for this division to be filled.

Before I am questioned, let me clarify that my letter to Shafik Sachedina was on an entirely different issue. Him and other leaders have no right to behave badly in front of the Imam and to abuse the privileges granted to them by the Imam. If they want to do so then they should resign. This letter had nothing to do with any kind of judgement on my part regarding the case. That was a matter of love for the Imam, and my consequent inability to hear about beadabi in His presence by leaders He Himself has appointed.

Thank you brothers Nizar, Umed and Momin and sister Yasmin.

And once again I appeal to all: forget about who is right and who is wrong, let Mowla be the judge of that and also let Mowla decide what should happen to those who are wrong.

We all should pray for one thing only and that is unity in our jamat. After all, Mowla is oft forgiving and most merciful and as history shows it, even the worst offenders like Ravan have attained salvation by taking Mowla's name and deeply repenting just before their last breaths.

“We should create love and fondness for Mawlana Hazar Imam.”
On December 20th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YA-ALI-MADAT, MS ZEENATARA AND MS YASMIN (NOT VERIFIED)! Agreed! We should create love and fondness for Mawlana Hazar Imam. We should feel affection and friendliness for our brothers and sisters. But how can we achieve these love, fondness, and friendliness? We all are materially so much engrossed in our individualism that we are not able to get acquainted with our own! I will agree with you on your kind thoughts and comments but would very kindly request you to refrain from references “to barking dogs, etc.” We are human beings and there is lot of difference between human being and animal! ‘Hazarat Sir Sultan Mohammed Shah Aga Khan has articulated in one His Farman that the performance between human being and the animal is the same – both can procreate, eat, be no more, etc. but the Almighty Allah has given the brain to human being to exercise additional benefits that is bestowed upon them’! We, as human being, have our shortcoming, weakness, and limitation. This limitation could lead us to greed, avarice, and self-indulgence. The only possible way out is to slow down from self-possession, bring under control our weakness and failing! Therefore, let us remove the dividing wall; stop pointing fingers at our challengers. Days of rudimentary are beyond us! Let us follow the wisdom of our Pir and beg Almighty Allah for His grace and mercy!

“Your religious conviction is yours; it is only you who can doubt it.” I would like to take this opportunity to thank Liberian Umed and all those who have accepted me as I am. I mean no harm to anyone! With my sincere prayers in your efforts to create harmony and love among us! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

This is an expression "Let
On December 21st, 2010 librarian-umed says:

This is an expression "Let the mad dogs bark", it is never meant literally. Even Mowlana Hazar Imam has used this expression for people who criticize without trying to understand.

Everyone will understand
On December 21st, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Everyone will understand this is merely an an expression which Zenaatara clarified by saying to let them be (let them say & do what they like). Expressions and Idioms should never be taken literally. Thanks.

* United Arab Emirates

Painful Division
On December 20th, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

This division amongst our brothers and sisters is so very painful. I shudder to think how our Imam is feeling. Has our Imam taught us to be so harsh and so judgmental?!
All those associated with Vancouverite should be highly ashamed of themselves. They say they are standing up for Mowla but in fact their demeanor, their language and their cold and forboding attitudes, bordering on crucifixion, are actually letting the Imam down. Not to mention the amount of pain He is going through.

Well, barking dogs will bark so at least I can appeal to my brothers and sisters on this site not to enter into a barking match with such people and also there is the need to be very careful of one's imaan which is a delicate treasure. Where such people as the Vancouverite group are concerned, it would be wise to remember our Pir's words:

Gurnar thi bhulaa tasu vaad na kije,
Te to avar ko jiv dolaaveji

So please my brothers and sisters, let us remember that having arguments and discussions with such people as the vancouverite group, who are stubbornly fixated on their misguided views, can be dangerous because they can succeed in shaking your faith. So according to the Pir, the best thing to do is to keep away from such people and let them continue with their harsh attrocities. The best thing for us to do is to turn our backs on them and continue praying to our Imam to step in and bridge this painful division amongst our brothers and sisters with His grace and mercy, Ameen.

@Zeenatara
On December 20th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Zeenatara. Well said. All those who are attacking verbally their Spiritual Brothers and Sisters, and they say that they are standing up for Mowla, but unfortunately, they are making Our Beloved Hazar Imam go through lot of pain. It is very sad, when your Mowla is in pain. Thank you.

* Canada

forgiveness
On December 19th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

On 15th October, Nagib and Al Naz asked for forgiveness of HI, and hence they will never be punished as per following verse of Quran:
“But Allah would not punish them while you(Rasul) were with them, nor will He punish them while they seek(your) forgiveness” (Holy Quran: 8:33)
The question is: Who did not ask for forgiveness and instead defied His wishes and suggestions?

What happened now?
On December 19th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I thought Mr Gray rushed in for summary judgement thinking favorable "instant judgement" was in his pocket, a piece of cake?

For sure the Judge did not hand him the victory so easily so far.
The longer it is taking I think the judge is reviewing everything more carefully?Especially with introduction of the"stud case"?
Or is it just normal it takes a long before any decision?

I heard a rumor from London from a prestigious Ismaili that the Plaintiff already got the Summary judgement in their favor .I told him my guess is the case is going to continue.
Can librarian Umed give some update?

* United States

I do not think there will be
On December 19th, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

I do not think there will be any hasty decision on this matter. The easy matter would have been just to give a judgment in the matter of Copyright without considering the far reaching changes it will bring to the Ismaili Faith as practiced for Centuries by our Jamat. But the judge was very much aware of what this would meant to our Faith.

The first day of the hearing on 7 December, the Judge was very annoyed, he asked "Why can't you all resolve the issue by mediation?" It looked like he was not comfortable giving a decision in a so complicated matter which was way beyond the issue of copyright and in which he understood that the defendant were eager to comply with whatever the Imam will tell them to do. He could not understand that the Imam came for Discovery and went and the case was still continuing. I guess it is difficult for any person, including me to understand that when the Imam came to find an honourable solution to this lawsuit which was launched without consulting Him why was it still continuing?.

Why are these people SS, MM and Gray still continuing it against the wishes expressed clearly by the Imam? And when the Imam Himself confirmed to them that He vividly remembered the Mehmani of 1992 and the presentation of the book and the instructions He Himself gave to Karim Alibhay, how are these 3 people going to justify what they have done behind the Imam's back by continuing in His name a baseless lawsuit.

And my question to them is simple: The Imam said he will meet us again and we will work together and He will give us all the Farmans with His anotations. Where will these people hide when it happens?

Nagib

Check the court docket
On December 19th, 2010 heritage says:

If it is not on the docket, it is a rumour:

http://cas-ncr-nter03.cas-satj.gc.ca/IndexingQueries/infp_RE_info_e.php?...

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

Respect for Tariquah ! ..
On December 19th, 2010 Blloglaw (not verified) says:

Vancouvertite News Editor says to Bloglaw “…………. I must say there is no logical reason for the defendants to create a mission for themselves through some dubious belief that makes them fight the very institution of Imamat that they purport to have full faith in. What ….. I think ego has come in the way of reason. …….the defendants who have set themselves up as the supreme authority of Ismailis – that they will decide what Ismailis need and that the leadership should see it their way. It is very important to understand that you can believe what you want – just don’t force those beliefs down our throats ….”
Bloglaw replies

Mr Editor : Imam Issues Farmans, instructions and directives to be followed and implemented. The central issue is why then would Imam not want them to be followed and practiced ? The obvious question that follows is :

Would Imam file a lawsuit if he knew Alnaz was not contacted, Farmans are not available in all JK 's, succinct, incisive and factual analysis, regarding the facts of this case were not prepared and or considered institutionally before the lawsuit was filed, collegiality and dialogue are at best limited and selective, and Imam’s Farmans to always resolve by arbitration, friendship and discussion as brothers and sisters, etc .

The defendants should be thanked for highlighting all the issues, and enabling an unprecedented feed back of the widening gap of the root causes and the ground realities. This is in keeping with Farmans and directives of MHI.

Regarding personal beliefs, We must all respect them and each other, and if it is the belief of some which we do not agree with we must still respect it. Imam wishes rites, ceremonies and traditions to be preserved and respected including mehmani. We now have new traditions which have are being introduced globally as you may know or can find out if you do not know.

Remembering also, in out Tariquah and in Islam, we do not separate the spiritual and the temporal. This is stated very clearly in the constitution by MHI. Therefore Farmans, directives and instructions from the Imam are holistic and inclusive. In this case farmans and the directives are clear. They have not all been followed is also clear.

I hope and pray that the only remaining issue of an admission is concluded by consent and agreement in the spirit of Imam’s directions on 15 October 2010, and in accordance with the farmans and directives issued by MHI on this subject and generally in the spirit of brotherhood and friendship. Ameen

* United Kingdom

Resposibility
On December 19th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

“It is not fitting for a believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by God and his messenger to have any opinion regarding their decision.” (Holy Quran, 33: 36)

Hazar Imam on 15th October expressed his decision/ wish for consent judgement, but it could not materialized .
The question is: Who is responsible for this? Ponder.

“ Say (O, Muhammad), if you love Allah, follow me(Rasul), Allah will love you and forgive your sins. Allah is forgiving, merciful” ( Holy Quran 3:31)

The question is, who has not followed Him after 15th October meeting?

Sirat al Mustaqueem
On December 19th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

You are right according to all the 3 authoritative translations of the Holy Quran. It is important to look at all the translations from the Quran;

When a directive or a decision is given, then If a believer follows his/her own opinion or interpretation, then they are rebelling against Allah by letting their attitude or course of action be determined by their personal interests, bias and preference.

(YUSUF ALI ) 33:36 It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision*: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path **.

ASAD) 33:36 (Now whenever God and His Apostle have decided a matter, it is not for a believing man or a believing woman to claim freedom of choice* in so far as they themselves are concerned: for he who [thus] rebels against God and His Apostle** has already, most obviously, gone astray.

PICKTHALL) 33:36 (And it becometh not a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His messenger have decided an affair (for them), * that they should (after that) claim any say in their affair; and whoso is rebellious to Allah and His messenger, ** he verily goeth astray in error manifest

* whenever a specific law is in the Qur’an (Allah) or in an injunction (order - guidance ) promulgated (declared) by the Messenger.

** to have a choice in their concern " - to let their attitude or course of action be determined, by their personal interests, bias & preference, and not, as decided by Allah or His Messenger

* United Arab Emirates

Quran !!
On December 19th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

These Ayats and many verses from our Ginans give us warnings not to question the Imams (Pirs) and to obey, obey immediately, without questions or doubts.

Remember, on October 15, both MM and SS were told off by the Imam 'it would be nice if we spoke with same ('one' to MM) voice when both not only did not accept the decision given by the Imam, but opposed Imam's decisions directly on His face.

However, when a person opposes the Imam directly on his face, what is that person capable of doing behind the Imam's face, when the Imam is physically not present! Moreover what can we expect of such persons.

I ask myself often, there must be a purpose for the Imam to show me in person what I had been hearing for decades - direct defiance by his own appointed leaders. I wonder what he wants me now to do with that direct knowledge, I trust and pray that he inspires and guides me.

* Canada

MHI Guidance
On December 20th, 2010 Seeker (not verified) says:

Alnaz:

Isn't it true that MHI wanted you to be a lawyer?

Peace!

* Canada

MHI's Guidance
On December 21st, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Yes, MHI guided me to becoming a lawyer, and set the course for me to follow, and I am very grateful and continuously offer my shukr to him, by words, prayers and deeds.

* Canada

Feedback Dialogue & Collegiality
On December 18th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Imam directed and encourages feedback, dialogue, collegiality and sharing of information and Guidance including Farmans. The following are some of the directives to Leaders issued 15 years ago by MHI. These are circulated today as a part of the Leadership training and orientation programs.
If these were practiced and followed, then the lawsuit would not have been filed and certainly settled on 15th October 2010 as directed by Hazar Imam.
Some of the relevant Directives to Leaders in 1995
1 Regular feedback (Leadership and Jamati) should be a part of the institutional (Leadership) culture.
2 Leaders should foster a culture of dialogue through collegiality (cooperative interaction) & encourage objectivity and accountability,
3 Institutions should set up reliable procedures that will enable them to acquire a genuine understanding of the needs (spiritual and secular) of the Jamat. The processes should incorporate Jamati feedback
4 A leadership approach at all levels should engender confidence and team spirit through appropriate delegation of responsibilities, sharing of information, and the provision of support amongst Leaders and to the Jamat.
5 The institutions should strive to engender a culture of objectivity with a greater commitment to sound management, administrative and financial practices.
6 Reporting should be an integral management tool and reports should be factual, succinct and incisive.
7 Good information and incisive analysis is critical to making good and objective decision.
8 Judicious usage should be made of reasonable information technology.

* Germany

@Bloglaw re: above post of Dec. 18
On December 21st, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for sharing this useful information with the rest of us, Bloglaw, all the way from Germany! Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

According to Dr SS in his
On December 19th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

According to Dr SS in his cross examination, he said Imam first considered legal action at the end of March 2010.

Therefore If the above directives were followed, then the lawsuit would not have been filed within 5 days, by 6th April.

This is because an objective, incisive and succinct analysis research and assessment of facts and a report with a legal opinion and an impact analysis could never been possible in less than 5 working days. Such an internal institutional report would have taken many months. Imam says above " Good information and incisive analysis is critical to making good and objective decision"

* United Arab Emirates

The Stud case ( of 2000) and Copyright case of 2010
On December 11th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

It is incredible that Alnaz saved this “Stud case” of 2000, till the end! Excellent!

First reading of the case made me apprehensive but second reading of the judgment actually make me feel very encouraged that just because name “Agakhan” is there does not mean that the judges are going to be intimidated and tend to sway more on that side.

It also reinforces my belief that the side that has “Imam in Spirit and essence “ will win not just the "name"

The case really reinforces that abuse of power is happening at the Secretariat by some powerful persons but in the end the "truth prevails."

Hazar Imam is always with the "weaker and true" in the divine form.

The secretary in the stud case was falsely accused and harassed and hence the judgment favored her despite the fact that “Agakhan”' himself was the “named” defendant. And “Agakhan” name did get tarnish because of the “wrong doing of his staff”. But justice was done to the weaker side and all forgeries and manipulations exposed. MHI could have easily gone for a settlement in that case .His name would have been saved. But it was not done because he is just. I am sure he had the best of lawyers even at that time.

In this case it seems to me that Gray and SS did not make a good decision of rushing for the summary judgment.

Consent judgment was very vital for the plaintiff especially SS.

If the forgery indeed has happened there is no way plaintiff will get a judgment in their favor especially the judge after reviewing this stud case is going to be very “cautious”.

If Nagib and Alnaz will get the final judgment in their favor there is a big risk of the defendants suing the forgers and this could mean a big deal. I agree with Abdul that MHI has foreseen this and hence urged defendants to withdraw the allegations of forgery against “his staff” means secretary etc only or also SS and MM? He perhaps meant all of them. That can be ugly and no one desires that.

Why did MHI not go for settlement when he came on 15th Oct 2010? Settlement would be a great injustice to the defendants and reinforcement to the wrong doers. How could he do injustice to his own murids? Who are true momins?
All believers would question their faith in Him. Also it would encourage the wrong doers to continue their practices thinking Imam in the end will come and settle for the sake of his Institutions and name. He who is just and merciful could hardly desire this.
.
It was a good option only for leaders involved in the fraud if it has indeed happened. There is a very great likelihood that it has indeed happened. Hazar Imam knows very well defendants did not want to make any money in printing Farmans. Their intentions were noble

He is definitely not the true plaintiff. He would never ever sue his devotees with so much love and dedication for spreading God’s words (Farmans), which are made for his devotees anyways! It is a completely an absurd hypothesis from the point of view of true momins and if Ismaili faith is a “true and spiritual Tarika”. I think this stud case is going to be very vital for the defendants and change the verdict in their favor.

If case goes to trial we are in for many revelations, which are needed for setting the system right. Every thing happens for a reason! All the GJ wishes and MHI’s ambitions cannot be realized unless there is a big change from status quo and mindset mentality among the Leaders of the esteemed Institutions. Only He knows the end.

* United States

Finding the 'Studs' case seems to be a fortunate coincidance
On December 11th, 2010 heritage says:

We are not sure that Alnaz "saved" this case for the last minute. On the First day of the case, Mr Gray introduced Mr "Henry Carnegie" as The Aga Khan's Lawyer that would be sitting in on this case to advise Mr Gray.

This attempt at intimidation seems to have backfired on them as, from what we understand, Alnaz fortunately found this case that actually involves discovery of this same Mr Carnegie. Alnaz made copies of this case that very evening and brought it in on the second day of the motion.

Aga Khan Lawsuit: Fraud at Aga Khan Studs - 2000-02-22

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

Wow!
On December 11th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

This is truly His "Leela".
It was indeed the perfect timing.

* United States

Finding the 'Studs' case seems to be a fortunate coincidance
On December 11th, 2010 ali (not verified) says:

you are wasting your time nagib, The truth is that you a liar and have lost this case with HH. You could not even ask 5 question to HH on OCT 15, what happened?? you got hit by lightning

* Canada

@Ali
On December 14th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Ali. Wow what a beautiful name. Our Beloved Imam Ali's name. Ali let us pray for our Spriitual Brothers Nagib and Alnaz. May Allah bring you "peace" and "happiness". Thanks.

* Canada

Questioning the Imam
On December 12th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

A true Ismaili would not insult the imam by asking him questions. Nagib left the floor open to the imam to say whatever he wanted, much better than asking questions because the imam could then say whatever wax in his mind.

Did the imam not remember his letter no. 1, or letter no. 2, or his brother's email, or his affirmation, or the allegations he made in the claim, or the announcements he authorized to be read in jks. It seems not because when the imam was given the floor, he did NOT refer to or mention anything from these things that we have been rejecting.

Mr. Gray and MHI were given the floor freely to place on the record officially to once and for all destroy our credibility and arguments.

And, wow, the record is clean, nothing said against us.

Nagib says, if Gray knew that MHI would have supported him and their position why then he went off the record. Read the transcript, as soon as MHI says, may I make a suggestion, Gray says go off the record.

What was he scared of?

* Canada

By the way, I traced your
On December 12th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

By the way, I traced your information:
IP Address: 65.92.232.218
ISP: Bell Canada
Region: Aurora (CA)

This is the same as the one who put the death threats against me and Alnaz on the Internet and the traceable IP has already been transmitted to the authorities.

Nagib

The questions were already
On December 12th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

As received

The questions were already given to Mr Gray in advance. When we arrived in Gray’s office, he was already in another room with Hazar Imam, later he told us he had prepared Hazar Imam to reply to our questions.

However Gray knew that Imam will say everything in our favour so he cleverly put off record as soon as the Imam started speaking. I was too engrossed in what the Imam was saying and did not notice that Gray had put off-line the whole conversation.

The Imam stayed half hour instead of 15 minutes, he talked about all the questions and even on issues different from Farmans and the lawsuit. He said he remembered very well the Mehmani of 1992 and the instruction he gave us to continue publishing because it was at a time when he was looking for competent people for this work. This week Gray has pleaded in front of the judge that the Imam could not remember what happened 18 years ago and Mohamed Manji was seating in the room also. Both knew Imam’s position was opposite of their position. God have mercy on them, they will need it.

Nagib
-----------

The Court may draw an inference in regards to the presence of the Imam. Gray forcefully pleaded that the presence of the Imam meant that he was the plaintiff. Though, in reality the Imam was only interested in resolving the situation and putting the issue at rest. That was the reason He came.

The other possible inference that the Court may dray is that Gray knew that the Imam will take our favour, and this is why he put everything off-record. If Gray knew Imam was with him, he would have put on record everything the Imam said. In fact the Court Recorder is supposed to note down who is in the room [she did not], what time the proceedings went off-record etc… she did nothing of this. She was supposed to confirm the transcripts with me before releasing, she released to Gray first, I was not even given her email or contact or name by Gray up to the time Gray released the transcript. There was quite a manipulation of the records, so Prothonotary Tabib ruled in a Case Conference that no evidence from Discovery can be entered by either party except by going in a new full Motion.

I could not do that because of logistics. There were few weeks between the Discovery on Oct 15th and the last Motions of December 7th; that was 2 trips for me from Kenya to Canada. Putting a Motion in between and coming from Nairobi to Toronto for cross-examination was just impossible. 3 trips in 6 weeks and having to prepare would be an expensive Herculean task.

Nagib

THE SO-CALLED “DISCOVERY” OF THE IMAM
On December 12th, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

Since the start of this lawsuit, the leadership and their spokespersons have been playing a deceitful and dirty game with Mr. Tajdin and Mr Jiwa. On one hand they sued them in open court but on the other, they want to tie their hands in defending themselves.

If the Defendants file their version of the events, they are accused of defying the Imam; if they seek to show that an affidavit is misleading, they are accused of insulting the Imam appointees.

It appears that those who started this lawsuit believe in court system only if it makes them winners; or maybe they never thought they would have to show any evidence; the Agakhan’s name would make the judge bow his head and pronounce in their favour (like they would in dictatorships in Pakistan or Tajikistan)

To properly defend themselves, when it came to the Imam’s discovery, the Defendants would have done what the Plaintiff did …..hire a high-profile International law firm and then get a barracuda lawyer to conduct Mowla’s discovery. As everyone knows, there are many in the world who would have paid for the best lawyers for a chance to “get” at our Imam. In fact, with His divorce case is still pending, even the Begum Inaara’s lawyers would have been quite interested.

Also, this lawsuit has raised historic issues of Shia and Ismaili Tariqas and it would a first time for the Imam of the Ismailis to have to respond in a free-for-all discovery process.

Even the issue of copyright law is very current for many legal practitioners as there is an untested new Copyright Act that is seeing its way through the legal world. It was the reason the Canadian Lawyer magazine was initially interested in the Agakhan lawsuit.

So with all this clutter, what do Naqib and Alnaz do?

Like true momins, they chose not to subject their Mowla to such ordeal (although to be fair, the Imam is no stranger to the courts, having been the defendant in two messy divorces and a number of other business related lawsuits.)

Instead, they stood in front of Him, tongue-tied, with centuries of devotional theology guiding their conduct. They waited for the Guru to instruct. (How can a hired gun understand the emotional turmoil in their heads as they are seated two feet across the table from Him?- Perhaps the esteemed Canadian Judge, who is Catholic, may understand why they could not x-exam their “Pope”)

So to those who make death threats against the Tajdin and Jiwa families… don’t push so hard that they really get tempted to push back. Naqib is not some illiterate peasant in Gujarat in the last century; he is a very powerful Canadian businessman, supported in this ordeal by a large network of family and friends across the globe. And Alnaz is not an artisan shoemaker in Porbander; he is an articulate Toronto lawyer, who has fought many a hardy lawsuits for his clients.

If these two really fight, this community will be torn apart. They can start by criminal charges against all those involved in the death threats, including any local leaders. At the same time, there are those who have publically libelled and slandered them including the editor of the Vancourite, who assumes he has a license to say anything because he controls a website. Then there is the opportunity to subpoena all those such as MM; SS and the Aiglemont staff who could have been involved in the initial fraud and cover-up. And finally, there is the whole question of whether there can ever be copyright in Farmans, especially if they are made for circulation.

Nagib and Alnaz have done the Ismaili community a great favour. They have conducted themselves with dignity under attack and they have chosen to limit the damage only to those directly responsible.

* Seychelles

so poignant and so
On December 15th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

so poignant and so succinctly presented. Leaders and especially Dr SS and MM did not realise before the lawsuit started nor did they seriously attempt conciliation nor even contacted Alnaz before filing the Lawsuit..

Bloglaw quoted Imam's farman in which Imam directs leaders and wishes resolution of differences always by arbitration, friendship and discussion internally and therefore not to broadcast externally.

Why are leaders not willing to meet and sit down with Alnaz and Nagib and resolve the only Issue. See Bloglaw comment in Vancouvertie below

Comment by bloglaw in Vancouverite December 13, 2010 Thank you. Indeed it would be wonderful if the case was settled today and there was a LIF announcement to that effect. Maybe there will be.

There is one, and only one issue. That is admission of infringement. The reasons why admission should not be an issue are as follows;

a. The sanctity of Mehmani of 1992, and the tsignificance and radition of acceptance of Mehmani generally by Hazar Imam directly and also in JK will have been and needs to be respected and preserved
b. The Farman made in 1992 during Mehmani does not need to be changed since Leaders in any event will be working together with our 2 brothers going forward (As directed by MHI)
c. The sanctity and tradition of following Farmans until they are changed will have been respected and preserved.
d. Legally a consent without admission does not give Imam legally any more or less legal protection from external infringements in future by either the 2 murids or anyone else > So why make this an issue.
e. Alnaz Jiwa and Nagib Tajdin have confirmed that they will abide by all Imam’s directions and guidance. Therefore if in the unlikely event Imam’s guidance becomes necessary in future on any matter, Imam may do so at his pleasure.
f. By settling this case in this way we will be following Imam’s guidance on resolving issues internally by conciliation, by discussion and friendship as brothers and sisters. This will have a very positive consequential impact internally and externally.
g. Hazar Imam did not make this a specific pre condition on 15 October 2010

h. All resulting and consequential issues arising can and will be resolved by by the Leaders by discussion, friendship and together in accordance with Farmans by Hazar Imam.

Unfortunately there have been no meetings and yet there is every reason for meetings and agreement based on the above reasons to agree and conclude this case.

I have been praying and continue to pray for conciliation and agreement. Leaders are aware and I do not need to post your comment and my response in the Heritage site.

* United Arab Emirates

@Porbander
On December 13th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Abdul what made you use Potbander as an example? Wow, no one knows my special connection with this town, and I am shocked and amazed at the same time seeing you used this town out of the hundreds others you could have referred to!!!

* Canada

Touching comments....
On December 13th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Every so often, I read comments by readers which are so touching and goes to the heart and essence of the situation facing us. This is one of them. Both Nagib and I have an agenda: do only what is required to defend but to avoid at any costs any steps that would be harmful to the interests of the Jamat and the Imam. Despite the optics of it all, both of us deeply love our Imam, and would gladly give our lives for Him and His Jamats.

I am ever so grateful for the many people who understand the situation and support us with encouragement and prayers. I am also so very grateful to my family who have endured, in some ways even more so than what I have faced, and have remained steadfast behind me despite the public humiliation hurled at them as well. I know that some extended family of mine as well as some family friends have cut off relation with us which causes pain to my family, but in the name of the Imam, all is tolerated, lovingly. I am in awe of their support despite the extreme situation.

The icing on the cake was the Mulakat with our Imam, which went so very well for us, which has brought so much peace and contentment in our lives. Day in and night out I constantly offer my gratitude and shukr for the blessing to serve our Imam and His Jamats. And for all the prayers that are sent our way, by so many of my brothers and sisters, I have no words to express my thanks, even if I tried to I could not express how I feel about it.

* Canada

True momins and foundation of "batuni faith" Esoteric concept.
On December 13th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

True momins
I agree Nagib and Alnaz are true momins. They indeed have fulfilled all the criteria of true momins per Ginans and Farmans. They have steadfastly followed batuni Ismaili faith and showed their love for their murshid.

Leadership on the other hand has shown ruthless ness, contempt and arrogance. Sticking steadfastly, without doubts to our batuni faith I am still convinced that the ruling will be in favor of the defendants. I do not see a quick closure as yet.
The reason MHI is not intervening in the manner everyone would expect is there must a be a lofty goal. His personal cases or stud cases were purely “Dunyavi”, even though he is omnipotent he has accepted defeat in stud case and trials and tribulations in divorce cases following the norms of the courts and society because his life is exemplary.

But this case apparently dunyavi to many in reality is “Dini” and involves the foundational beliefs of “Ismaili Batuni faith” where “spirit” is the most important and our doctrinal issues are at risk of getting tarnished. Didar and Mehmanis are purely spiritual matters where the soul of the murid is expected to be in direct contact with the holy spirit and communication is done at spiritual levels. Hence when hundreds of thousands are sitting for deedar each soul present is communicating with his pleas earnestly to his Mawla who is Hazar Imam the Noor of Allah the Master spirit. The murids receive the blessings on each of these pleas made silently by the hearts and we believe he listens and grants us our wishes. No one gets written approvals! But we all experience the bliss and benefits in our lives and no doubt, otherwise we will not be continuing to be Ismailis and we would not travel thousands of miles for the “deedar” which is not easy to receive.

Faith is a matter of love and spirit. There are no written contracts. How can anyone question the validity of such approval?
To deny its validity is to deny batuni faith. How can a catholic judge understand these complex spiritual concepts?

The reason why Farmans are made by MHI but withheld by the leaders in high authority? Why they themselves do not obey the Farmans and where are the accurate copyright law regarding Farmans written? Why did MHI not mention even once in His GJ Farmans that no one must share and circulate His Farmans? How can there be copyright on God’s words? They are made for the sole purpose of circulation and implementation.

Jamat must not seek to courts instead seek conciliation within the community, Pluralism, Tolerance for others, protection of weaker, brotherhood, unity all these teachings of Ismaili faith, why none of it is followed in this case by the leaders and Institutions?

MHI who is teaching these ethics how can He be the one to break it? . There is no way he would ever do it in a million years. Hence he is not the real plaintiff.

On this single premise my heart tells me again and again no matter what will continue in the court in the final analysis the defendants will be the winners and Hazar Imam in spirit and essence is with them. He is not the real plaintiff His name has been used by powerful leaders to achieve their mean goals.

In His personal cases he will not use his “divine authority” but for His momins he will most certainly use it I guarantee!!

Patience is one of the most important character traits of the Imams in the past and present. They have never rushed in for anything without wisdom. Hence “sabar” however hard it is to practice is the most beneficial tool besides bandagi and Ibadat in times of difficulties and calamities. Complete submission to His will without doubt and “vasvasa” is one of the most important requisite to obtain His mercy and full-blown assistance and victory. Love for the Imam is the foundation of our faith and the promise by Imams has always been you have nothing to worry if you have love for your Hazar Imam. (In this one sentence is the entire essence of our Tarika (Farman ISMS)

I confirm Nagib and Alnaz will be helped by MHI in a way no one can even imagine or fathom Inshallah.

* United States

Checks & Balances are ineffective
On December 11th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

@Abdul; There are excellent systems in place with excellent checks and balances. You are right that they are ineffective. This is demonstrated clearly maybe a tip of the iceberg. The reason. Over the last 15 to 20 years, the systems have been managed, controlled & routed by the same Leaders in question. A pervasive culture and mindset has developed which seems to be motivated by command and egos designed to maintain the status quo at all costs. Hence there is more & growing levels of mediocrity and nepotism, rather than more meritocracy.

Information and internal reports edited under this mindset and culture, are therefore bound to be incomplete and inaccurate at best. This is demonstrated clearly in the sworn testimony of SS, and no meetings for conciliation since 15 October 2010. This would certainly have not been the case if the checks and balance were followed, enabled and empowered by the Leaders.

There are leaders down the line doing excellent work within the system. There are also a host of excellent, competent, and loyal murids out there who are ready willing and able to help and serve. Leaders need to change or be changed replace the present culture of fear with that of comfort and brotherhood. This will therefore enable and empower a more constructive interaction and expression of ideas and actions, all working side by side.

Imam encourages leaders and us all to seek and share knowledge. Imam knows leaders are not sharing. Imam informed and reminded us in Farmans in London and Singapore because Imam wants us to seek and share knowledge amongst ourselves. This includes Farmans. According to the lawsuit, all Farmans are available in all JK's.

Therefore Leaders down the line, and the Jamat should give feedback and approach leaders with questions of concerns about any matter including issues highlighted in this lawsuit. This will also help to make sure that the systems and institutional checks and balances are effective and working for the benefit of the Jamat.

* United Kingdom

Love for Imam and Jamat
On December 11th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

@ Bloglaw It sems Leaders involved do not share Farmans and guidance with the Jamat because there is not enough unconditional love from the heart for the Imam or the Jamat. They say all Farmans are available in all Jk to the Jamat, when they are effectively not.

If there was Dr SS, MM and those involved closely in this since Jan 2010 would have followed Farmans and Imam's guidance on differences with murids to be resolved always by discussion and friendship. And there would be effective checks and balances, and this lawsuit would not have not started, and if it did then it would have been settled by now.

The only issue since 15 Oct 2010 is admission of infringement. Dr SS & MM want this admission at the expense of our rites and ceremonies (Mehmani) which Imam in his Farmans wishes us to protect, continue and preserve. In this case the question is also what will be the meaning and significance of Mehmani's to Imam and in JK. in the future ?

Alnaz Jiwa and Nagib Tajdin have signed the consent as directed by Imam. They are following the wishes and directions from Hazar Imam out of love for the Imam irrespective of the consequences. How many murids, panjebhai's, panjebahenu's, and fidais would also do so and agree with them.?

@ Zenaatara I agree with you and I hope our brothers and sisters will want to ask out of love for the Imam and let not fear any consequences. Imam is and will be with all His murids.

Dr SS MM and the leaders can still seek guidance & conciliation to conclude this case . It is never too late for conciliation and dialogue.

* United Arab Emirates

CHARLTON VS HH AGAKHAN'S STUDS CASE
On December 10th, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

Just finished reading the interesting Feb 2000 judgement of Mr. Justice Declan Budd.

What stands out starkly are very strong language used by the Hon. Judge about the conduct of Defendant (the Imam's horse farm). He called the Defendant's conduct “misleading and a snare and a deception to the Court” and spoke of “the illegal, deceptive and misleading deletion of portions of the memo”

The Judge went on::

“I take the view that the Court should mark strong disapproval of the conduct of the Defendant Société in

(a) Fighting the motion before Laffoy J. when documents in the possession of the Société, including the Coulton memo, and knowledge of the role of Mr. Faughnan as head of security and as a person with a perceived vested interest in the mode and outcome of the inquiry made him an obviously inappropriate person to conduct the inquiry.

(b) Prevarication, obfuscation and obstruction in the conduct of the motions before this Court in -

(1) failure to nominate persons to make affidavits of discovery,

(2) by failure to nominate Solicitors to accept service on behalf of agents of the Société outside the jurisdiction and causing delays and difficulty by contending that agents of the Société did not have authority to hire and fire employees when averments in the affidavits and signed documents manifest the contrary in practice.

(c) Persistent prolongation of these proceedings by maintenance of what transpired to be quite untenable stances on issue after issue, for example, by firstly the contention that Mr. Faughnan was an appropriate person to conduct the inquiry and, secondly, the contention that Mr. Downes was an
appropriate person to conduct the inquiry. Notification had already been given by the Plaintiff’s Solicitor that Mr. Downes was likely to be a prospective witness and that he had involvement in the subject-matter of the inquiry, having been Mr. Drion’s assistant manager. Thirdly, by simply ignoring the suggestion made that in a prestigious and world-wide
organisation such as the Defendant, there must be other employees or agents not previously intimately involved, or at least the Defendant could have engaged a person (as with Mr. Magee in the Drion inquiry) who would have been an appropriate person to carry out an impartial inquiry or investigation in respect of the Plaintiff.

(d) Persistently breaching Court Orders.

(e) Deceiving the Court by non-disclosure of relevant documents such as the Coulton memo of 18th June, 1998. Trust was further eroded by the delay by the Defendant in the production of the Coulton letter hiring Diane Kavanagh and especially the failure to produce the third page thereof
which, when eventually produced, revealed that Mr. Coulton had signed the hiring letter on behalf of the Defendant. It is not for the Defendant to choose which documents will be discovered or which documents will have expurgations particularly when such documents embarrass the Defendant’s
case.

(f) Compounding and aggravating this deception of the Court by deleting relevant passages from the Coulton memo which included excisions which altered the meaning and excluded obviously significant and relevant
passages from the memo.“

The Judge even considered a prison sentence on the Defendant but then gave them a last minute reprieve because they had cooperated just before the hearing in his court. In any event, he was so disgusted with them that he ordered full costs on a solicitor and client basis (i.e actual costs not standards fees) against the Imam and his organisation.

What was clear was his very high regard for Mowla and His family. Whilst he implied that he did not consider the Imam to have been directly responsible for the conduct of his servants, he did remark on the mysterious destruction of a key document by the Imam personally.

It seems Mowla recognises that the power of the courts in these situations and it must be because of this case that why He specifically asked Tajdin to withdraw the allegations of fraud against His secretary, which Tajdin graciously did

What is emerging is a pattern of conduct by senior people around the Imam. What is so baffling is how people in the Imam’s regime are able to get away with all the shenanigans, fraud etc. We all understand that the Imam personally must be quite busy with his vast philanthropic work, his extensive business investments and his complicated family matters. But surely there must be a system in place to act as a check and balance on the vast amount of power and assets that Aiglemont manages?

However, after reading SS sworn testimony (under a very friendly x-examination), it seems frightening that the spiritual and material affairs of millions of Ismailis may be in the hands of such an obviously incompetent person.

Inshallah, with T&K Mowla will soon get leaders who are equally competent as loyal and certainly not outright dishonest as the above case shows.

* Seychelles

The difference between the 2 cases
On December 11th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

The comforting part in copyright infringement case is it deals with the "Din" more than "Duniya" and I am anticipating
MHI's spiritual authority to come into play which was not needed in the above mentioned stud case which was purely "Duniyavi" matter.

I have faith very much in the spiritual component. Inshallah these 2 murids will be helped by their Murshid.

* United States

Allahtalla differentiate between "believers" and "acceptors"
On December 9th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. BLOGLAW! Al Waezeen Abu Ali is a man of unique and exceptional personality! His strong belief in Ismailism cannot be compared and measured to any standard of some books which have come into market on Ismailism. Al Waezeen Abu Ali was a protagonist of impassioned and passionate aficionado of Ismailism.

The symbolic of Mehmani and its relevance is celebrated in everyday life of an Ismaili Muslim. Respectively it is beneficial manifestly in both lives of an Ismaili Muslim – secularly and spiritually. Palpably the Mehmani is considered and significantly in contemplation of inner thoughts of an Ismaili Muslim to seek Almighty Allah’s grace and blessing on all felicitous occasions.

Mawlana Hazar Imam is the spiritual father of all Ismaili Muslims and He is also our Imam of the time. We seek His loving blessing via Mehmani, Dua, Imam’s Noorani Deedar, and in many other religious ceremonies. Mawlana Hazar Imam is omnipotence, and philanthropic. Our Tariquah is practiced for innumerable years, which goes way back to inception of Ismailism.

I agree with Alnaz (not verified, dated December 09, 2010, who says: Quote, In the Quran, Allahtalla had differentiated between "believers" and "acceptors" of Islam, and in the Quran only certain Ayats are addressed to the believers which we Ismailis abide by in letter and in spirit. For those who have no faith, firstly will not read; secondly, even if read or heard will not enter the "heart," unquote. I am praying that this case is settled by amicably. With my affectionate prayers for all my Ismaili Muslims brethren, and with Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

News: The hearing is closed
On December 9th, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

The hearing is closed and the judgment will come soon we hope. Lets see what happens. A lot of issues were discussed in front of the judge and normally Motions would pass if the matter is very simple. By complicating Motions, the outcome can be that both motions are dismissed and a mini-trial is possible.

Gray pleaded so many thing in contradiction of what the Imam instructed on 15 October. I could not believe it. For example, Gray completely disregarded Hazar Imam's statement from that day that he remembered the instruction given to us about continuing the publications of Farman, Gray pleaded the opposite.

Gray admitted that what they were seeking was a declaration that we have infringed. It was apparent that this was more a vendetta.

Nagib

The case will go for trial it seems .
On December 11th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

From what I gather from the "Vancouverite's version of court proceedings and judge's remarks , judge may not be sympathetic to the defendants. Summary judgement seems unlikely for either side.Trial seems very likely.

* United States

@Nagib re: above post of Dec. 9th
On December 10th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for updating us, Nagib.
Indeed, for the past few weeks, it has been utterly clear that the whole matter is nothing but seeking a revenge. "Eeloko nè kètli adèkhay hassè, ya Mowla !" I hope that the judge could see that... Madad, Mowla, madad.
If this period of waiting is so hard for us, the readers and the "carers" (forgive the newly invented word!), how much harder it must be for you, Nagib, Alnaz, and your families...
Thank God we have our tasbihs to give us solace.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Normally how long for the judgement?
On December 9th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Any idea how long does the judge take normally?

* United States

Judgment, how long...
On December 11th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

There is no fixed time, I expect the judge to issue it in a few weeks, maybe four, or so.

* Canada

Thank you Nagib and Alnaz
On December 9th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

We continue to pray. Ameen

* Canada

News from the case: Massive fraud?
On December 9th, 2010 heritage says:

As Gray had been trying to tell the judge that it is not conceivable that there was massive fraud against the Aga Khan by those who started the lawsuit, Alnaz, at the end of his pleadings, presented a case from 2000 where it has happened before: that there had indeed been fraud in the Aga Khan's domain by the Aga Khan's agents. See link below:

Aga Khan Lawsuit: Fraud at Aga Khan Studs - 2000-02-22

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

FRAUD in 1998 at Aga Khan Studs: Extracts
On December 10th, 2010 heritage says:

Summary and extracts showing:

- How a document forgery was perpetrated by a high ranking agent of the Aga Khan to cover up that agent's own possible involvement in a large fraud.

- How this forgery was done on behalf of the Aga Khan and His Societe Civile

- How this agent attempted to mislead the Irish High Court in order to prejudice it and divert blame to a secretary

- How this nevertheless became a very long court battle that was made to look like a former secretary was conducting a lawsuit against the Aga Khan.

Fraud in Aga Khan lawsuit at Irish Studs in 1998: Explanations and Extracts - 2010-12-10

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

Thank you and Nagib. The
On December 9th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Thank you and Nagib. The relevant sentence in that lawsuit is "In his affidavit, the Aga denied having given any instructions for the termination of Charlton's employment "

It seems highly improbable that the only one issue remianing of whether there was Infringement will be settled by agreement as directed by Hazar Imam.

So the lawsuit is likely to go on

* United Arab Emirates

TAJDIN & JIWA DESERVE OUR THANKS@Abdul
On December 8th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Very well said, I hope that we'll have some news about what happened today...

* Canada

@librarian Umed
On December 8th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Please can you give some update on what happened in the court on 7th dec?

* United States

It's still going...
On December 8th, 2010 heritage says:

It is a 2-day motion, so it is still going on right now.
We hear that everyone has spoken once already,
Oral representations should be over after closing summations this afternoon.

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

Will you kindly provide an
On December 8th, 2010 layman (not verified) says:

Will you kindly provide an update whenever you get a chance about the happenings during the hearings?

* United States

Significance of Mehmani ?
On December 7th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Editor of Vancouverite says Al Waezeens like AbuAli sometimes do not comprehend the significance of Mehmani ? “ When good people like Abu Ali talk about the significance of symbolic offerings they are generally talking to people who use these occasions for appropriate purposes. Good people such as Abu Ali sometimes do not comprehend how such significant gestures, one-to-one occasions, can be used for corporate business. ………. So let’s make one thing clear. You Bloglaw, are a blatantly shameless protagonist of violation of good faith…”

Bloglaw replies : So Mr Editor are you suggesting Imam does not comprehend the significance too? What about Mehmani when someone start a business for blessings and Baraka (Barkat). What about mehmani for man murad in presence of Imam and also in JK ?. Your response suggests you have not fully understood what Mehmani means and how important it is for us as Ismailies. I suggest you speak to one of our Scholars and or Waezeens regarding our rites and ceremonies, who can deal with all your questions intellectually and referencing them to related resources and material so you can have a full understanding of mehmani. Maybe you should also read Abu Ali's Article and AL Waez Kamaluddin's on rites and ceremonies. ITREB will also have articles you can read. Maybe you should also one of Allama Nasiruddin Hunzia’s book on this subject too. You will find all Al Waezeens like Abu Ali and our Scholars understand the significance of mehmani and Farmans that go or are delivered with them.

I am praying that this case is settled by agreement today.

* United Kingdom

Vancourite and Mehmani !!
On December 9th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Bloglaw, Salim Jiwa (editor) had confirmed to me in an earlier telephone conversation that he knows nothing about our Jamati affairs, and that for a long time he has not participated in same. For such people these (mehmanis, duas, Imam's reach, etc.) are hard concepts to believe in and/or to understand. In the Quran, Allahtalla had differentiated between "believers" and "acceptors" of Islam, and in the Quran only certain Ayats are addressed to the believers which we Ismailis abide by in letter and in spirit.

For those who have no faith, firstly will not read, secondly, even if read or heard will not enter the "heart".

* Canada

Paragon of Love of God and Patience.
On December 7th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Here is a beautiful story, though it is from a different faith, telling us how much we should love our Maula.

This event is taken from unabridged Ramayana. It was in the form of a story, a part of my Hindi syllabus when I was a high school student at India. The event is related to 7th Avatar of lord Vishnu, namely Ram. The main story is a very long one but only a gist of which has been provided here.
Shabari, 13, a child of low cast Bhill community, was by nature had a religious inclination. She had been a witness to a many irreligious acts of her parents, particularly his father. So one day, she left home for forest with the hope that she could find a shelter in an Ashram of a saint. After few days of journey and hungry, she reached the Ashram of a prominent saint, Matang, who was kind enough to provide her shelter in his Ashram where Shabri started serving him. The saint observed that Shabri has all the characteristics required of an ardent follower of lord Vishnu, and accordingly, instead of imparting theoretical knowledge of scriptures, she was given practical religious knowledge, particularly devotion and love toward Vishnu.
One day, some years later, when she was of middle age, the saint announced pleasant news to her: "Lord Vishnu has taken Avatar in the palace of king Dasharath and his name is Ram. I would like to have his Darshan but I would not live long. But I see in you such love, devotion and Bhakti that he himself will visit you one day to bestow you with his Darshan. Your sincere love will bring him here." After few days the saint expired.

Due to a devious plot set by his step mother, and also to save the honor of his father, Ram willingly abandoned his rights to Ayodthya's throne. He along with his wife and his brother Laxaman left the kingdom and proceeded to forest to spend next fourteen years there.

Each day, Shabari would go to the jungle early in the morning and used to pluck juicy, fresh berry fruits so that she could offer them to Lord Ram, in case he arrives unexpectedly. To ensure that they are all sweet, she would taste each and every berry retaining only the sweet ones and discarding the bitter ones. She never realized that she should not taste them before they were offered (Mehmani?) to her Lord. It is the pattern or custom of almighty that He always overlooks all such faults and mistakes that one commits, arising out of pure Love of Him and which are not the intentions of His devotees. Perhaps it was a part of his Leela(લીલા). As per her usual routine, she would use to eagerly anticipate Ram’s arrival each day. Many years passed; she was now very old woman.
One noon, Shabari saw two men and a woman approaching the Ashram. She instantly recognizes her lord Ram as a taller man; she became ecstatic and at their arrival she said, "O my Lord, I do not have anything to offer other than my heart, but here are some berries from a poor devotee of yours. May it please you.”
When Ram started eating berries, Lakshmana, the younger brother of Ram, raised the apprehension that berries had already been tasted and hence unworthy of eating. To this Ram said, "Many types of food I tasted so far nothing could equal these berry fruits, not even foods of our palace." Saying this, he ate all the berries, and at the same time occasionally smiling at her, indicating that he was appreciating and thanking her food.

Many yogis wanted Ram to visit their ashrams, but he went only to Shabari's ashram. After he had eaten all the berries, Ram told Shabari, "I have come straight to your Ashram only, ignoring all the invitations I had from many many yogis and saints. Over powered by sentiment she said, "O my lord, they are all exalted and erudite yogis waiting for Your darshan, I am ugly, old and low cast woman having no knowledge of any scriptures, and hence I am not worthy of your so much attention."
Ram replied, “ A person's caste, colour, physical experience or his knowledge is irrelevant to me. They are all worldly things. What is important is recognition of my reality. There are many people in the kingdom who respect and love me as a prince, but none knows my reality, who I am. Erudite, learned religious persons please me, but nothing excels pure love of my devotee who knows my real identity. Many people pray to Lord Vishnu, but don't know who Vishnu is."
"All saints have their own selfish desires and motives behind their Bhakti, their affection, their prayers, their love. Some of them are after their names, some for fame, some want heaven, some salvation (Mox,મોક્ષ). Hardly anyone loves me for shake of love without any selfish motive. I like those who totally surrender to me and me only with full faith and devotion. They are the best among all the people, however, they are very rare .O Shabari, but you are one of them."
"In your case, O Shabari, your devotion and love is pure, you have no selfish desire or motive. You love me for shake of love. Your aim and goal is I and I only. Because of your pure love, spiritually, I was always with you, and now I am with you physically."
After this, the trio left the Ashram.
It is said that as soon as the trio left the Ashram, Shabri left this world too to meet his lord Vishnu in the next world.

Reply to Kasamali
On December 7th, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

Brother Kasamali,
You have brought tears to my eyes. Of course I have heard this story of Shabri from my mother, but you have indeed articulated it so well. True love for the Imam is such a simple concept, and yet so difficult to achieve, and so rare as Lord Ram puts it. It is so easy to let self agendas prevail and even easier to confuse these with love. How can someone who truly loves the Imam tolerate even for a second anybody behaving insultingly in the Imam's presence? But yet, majority are still quiet because their self agenda of shielding themselves from retaliation has prevailed over love...

Anyway I thank you from the bottom of my heart for this touching reminder of true love.

Sister Zeenatara.

@Kasamali
On December 7th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

beautiful story!
Thanks for sharing.
I think Mawla came to Canada on oct 15th for the 2 defendants.
Rest all was make believe.

* United States

Your interest in my blog is appreciated!
On December 7th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. MOMIN, (United Arab Emirates). Dated: December 05, 2010.

Whatever I have mollycoddle in my expression in both websites – the Vancouverite and the Ismaili.Net, I never deceived any persons who have expressed on these websites. I have honestly expressed whatever I felt was feasible, acceptable, and adequate to make my views known to all readers so that the provocation, appeasements, and premeditated charges would not embarrass me! I am very contented with what I have and what I have lost. Both the Vancouverite and the Ismaili.Net have been kind to me to accept my blogs, of course, once in awhile my blogs did not merit the space but this is not the criticism but appreciation for their readiness to lend to me a hand to caution to me to rethink and have second thoughts on my views and thoughts. Finally, your interest in my blog is appreciated! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

TAJDIN & JIWA DESERVE OUR THANKS
On December 6th, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

We should all wish Mr. Tajdin and Mr Jiwa good luck tomorrow.

Throughout history, when simple people have risen up against unfairness, it has always been a David and Goliath struggle. In this situation, besides absolute power, there are the additional factors of fraud, deceit, betrayal and blackmail. Whilst we can admire the Defendants faith in the Canadian justice system, we should be under no illusion about their chances of success. There are very few judges in this country who would not be influenced by the prestige of Mowla’s name, particularly if they were unaware that it was been misused.

However, one thing is for sure. Nagib and Alnaz have set in motion the forces of change and win or lose tomorrow, they will have achieved the objective of opening up this community for scrutiny. There are many words thrown around about the Ismaili leadership, such as progressive, tolerant, pluralist, constitutional etc. Now we have clear picture as to how these lofty concepts are actually practised in our jamaat.

The results of the past few months are not very pretty. Naive momims, who have tried to test these concepts have been publicly condemned without a chance to explain themselves and death threats have been made against them; top leaders have been found to be so inept and clueless that they are an embarrassment to the name of the community and so-called educated Ismailis (including a self-styled “scholar” and an “experienced” “journalist) have shown themselves to be no better than the Taleban.

And most of the jamaat leadership has been exposed as so weak, that when they have to face some tough questions about their community affairs, they would rather bury their heads in the sand. Yet these are the same people, who will make jokes and condemn the Catholics priests or Sunni mullahs for their shortcomings. My, such hypocrisy!!

But all this is out in the open for the world to see.

Try as they can, they will not be able to “put the genie back into the bottle”. Young Ismails are already asking questions to Mukhis. The women (who generally tend to be more introspective) have started questioning the values systems they have been imparting on their children since immigrating here. The supreme power of money in Ismaili society; the "chamchagiri" and recycling of leaders; the deference to “saber” when it comes to bad leadership and the scramble for credit for even the most mediocre achievements. The future of this community is with the young. So far they were not even interested in coming to the JK. Now they want answers and change !

Mr. Tajdin and Mr. Jiwa deserve our thanks for waking us out of our cynicism and slumber-they have already won the Agakhan Lawsuit in the court of intelligent Ismaili opinion.

* Seychelles

Leaders appointed by Hazar Imam
On December 6th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad. I have said this before that we need to have lots of "changes" in our community, which our leaders are responible for, e.g. more communications with Jamat, trust, etc. Lot of Ismailis have brought this issue to their attention, and I personally feel that the matter should now be left in the hands of Our Beloved Hazar Imam.

I recall, my father once telling me that, a Murid who was not happy with a particular leader, brought the matter to the attention of Hazar Imam. Hazar Imam told the Murid that he would look into the matter. Mowla also said to him that this particular leader's "seva" was from the time of Hazrat Ali.

We human beings can forget somebody's "ahesan", but Our Mowla will never forget, despite what he has to go through. Thank you.

* Canada

Dr SS has not replied to Bloglaw
On December 6th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

@ Alibhai Thank you. I have not received an acknowledgement or a reply to the open letter from Dr. Sachedina. Maybe because I requested him to share that information with other Leaders and did not request him to respond to me. But Judging by his reply to Zeenat, we cannot be certain if he has instead not sent a similar letter to all leaders.

@ our parents : It is wonderful to meet and spend time with small groups of elderly parents and talk not to them, not about them, but with them about religious & material values, needs and changes. One of Imam’s GJ goals is our elderly parents. I (Jamat) don’t get information updates on this or see pictures & events/projects for them in the official website and on how is TKN doing. On TKN 3 years on, there have been software matching challenges (why?) and it is systemically flawed because it allows those who request to then choose if or not. Not to say this is not working but can do better and more.

@ BUI; Remembering we are all born equal and pure in mind and body. We then begin to learn about right and wrong, love and hate, respect and intolerance. charity and business, faith & family values, and everything else. In our formative years we learn from mainly our parents and teachers. Just Imagine, how far further we would be as a community if top priority was given by our top leader as directed by Hazar Imam to an inclusive BUI and early years programs. @ Yasmin you are so right our values and ethics are a reflection of what we say and do. I hope and will look forward to meeting you too one day.

@ Professional; You are right in what you say about professionals and the leaders in question. Not all leaders and remembering also the leaders in question have have worked hard and contributed to progress. There are some excellent scholars and intellectuals who can engage creatively and effectively for specifically the professionals and the intellectuals. We have an institutional culture of command and control which in reality does not welcome and encourage enquiry and critique. Professionals mean more enquiry about the past, the root causes and the needs. Only by critiquing and learning from the past can we seize the future more successfully. Alibhai I am a professional and I hope we will meet and share more.

@ Ground realities ; Mr Shivji like most was going through a learning curve regarding the unbelievable gap between what Imam wishes and the reality on the ground. He also likes to please everyone and there has been no platform such as this before. Who would have believed our top leader can be arrogant, & does not follow Imam’s farmans and at best is deliberately giving the wrong information to the Imam and to leaders. For example If he with MM and A Lakhani had said at the end of march 2010 to Hazar Imam “Khudavand, we as leaders have not spoken to Alnaz Jiwa as yet and the Jamat do not have access to Farmans in all JK’s or in all remote locations, and we have not used our internal conciliation process etc, We seek your guidance on what we should do and if the lawsuit should still be filed “ Does anyone believe Imam would have even considered a lawsuit ? In fact he would be very angry and upset that the Leaders should even ask him to repeat his Farmans on conciliation and to leaders to resolve internally and not broadcast differences.(Assuming for one moment Imam authorized the Lawsuit).

@ Dr SS ; Now Dr SS says to Zeenat he is following Imam’s wishes and his conscientious is clear, instead of explaining and apologising regarding her specific concerns of for example saying Imam thinks in French and speaks in English which is the reason to edit Farmans and Imam has said on 15 Oct 2010, Imam does not edit but annotates Farmans. So why edit and remove leaders sections in the London and Singapore GJ Farmans.

I hope and continue to pray that this lawsuit is settled tomorrow and by agreement. Ameen.

* United Kingdom

Agree with Bloglaw and Murid
On December 6th, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

You are correct, Brother Bloglaw, and I hope all our comments and wishes will be fulfilled by Mowla.
Ameen.
At the same time, I would pray that they are having an effect on Dr SS and other leaders to the extent that henceforth they will show adab in the presence of the Imam and also treat the jamat with more respect by readily sharing with us our Imam's exact words and thoughts (without any editing), inshallah.

Take care, Brother Bloglaw and all my other brothers and sisters on this site, and let us all pray together fervently for the dawn of a new era.

With love,
Sister Zeenatara.

Ameen Ameen
On December 7th, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

Ameen Ameen

* United Arab Emirates

A challenge to Dr. Sachedina
On December 6th, 2010 Another Ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

Dear Doctor:

Please do not remain under misunderstanding (illusion) that people and other leaders like you or respects you. Some of them do so because you are holding a very important post. Do you want to gauge your popularity? If yes, resign from the post and soon you will see that everyone including even Mr.Bhaloo, Mr. Manji or Vancouverite editor will start keeping distance from you, as soon as they come to know that you are resigning.

HI’s Advice
On December 6th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Two extra rich and very prominent Ismaili industrialist brothers in Pakistan quarreled among themselves. The situation got so worsened that son of the elder brother drew a gun at his uncle. Both brothers were very influential as well as heads of respective central AK institution and hence had contacts with HI too. Muala advised them not to approach court to settle the dispute. Since both brothers were good Ismailis, they followed Maula’s advice.
Wether they have settled their all the matters or not is not known, but none of them went to the court.
My point is: How, then, it is possible that HI filed a suit against His unarmed ordinary Murids.

Well done Zeenatara!
On December 5th, 2010 Suleman (not verified) says:

Wow! I can't believe that you actually sent SS your letter and even received a response. I thought that people just write things on this site but are not really brave and sincere enough to actually do what they are saying. So I am amazed with you, Sister Zeenatara. Not only did you really send your letter to SS but you actually got a response and now you've even replied to that fickle response. Double wow! I will now jump upon the bandwagon and be brave also. Please provide me with SS's email so that I too may write to him and aprise him of my opinions. For the sake of being politically correct, kindly email it to me at hali78650@gmail.com

Writing to leaders........
On December 5th, 2010 @Zeenatara, Suleman etc. (not verified) says:

Copies of correspondence to SS should be sent to the LIF head, Azim Lakhani, and ask him to respond as well, ask Lakhani whether he has confirmed directly with MHI of the lawsuit that have taken place, and/or whether he has confirmed with MHI directly concerning the announcement that was made in JKs in April.

Asking questions is encouraged by MHI in 1992 India visit.

Alnaz

* Canada

Leaders dont know because ?
On December 5th, 2010 momin (not verified) says:

bloglaw replies in vancouverite;

Nazneen – I am happy you find peace when you listen to Waeez’s especially AbuAli’s. I hope in addition to Abu Ali’s Waaz’s you will also be able to read and listen to Imam’s Farmans & speeches in all JK’s when you wish and need to. I was reading Abu Ali’s articles and in 2004 he said that the significance of our rites and ceremonies have never been taught in RE-BUI since 1948 ?

Is that true and if so, is that the reason why Leaders and many dont understand the significance of mehmani ? If so Abu Ali and other missionaries/Al Waezeens can and do expalin. Therefore is it not most important to preserve this tradition in also this lawsuit ? Abu ali also sayd ITREB are discontinuing some traditions which they should not ? If any one of you doubt what Abu Ali said I will be happy to let you have the article.

Mr Shivji – I see you like to find ways to be nice to everyone here and on the other site. What about pauvre moi (poor me)? (: just a joke. Thanks you Mr Shivji.

I continue to pray for a settlement by agreement today or tomorrow. Ameen

If true no wonder and is the significance and all rites and ceremonies a part of the curricula and programs since 2004 ?

* United Arab Emirates

Who & what are murids resenting ?
On December 4th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

News Editor Vancouverite December 4, 2010 – “I just wonder if these people live within the Ismaili community and understand the resentment that has built up – or are they living in some dream world of their own surrounded by supportive people. What I am picking up is unheard of resentment from the community”

Reply by bloglaw December 4, 2010 - Editor – Thank you for sharing. Seriously how many have you spoken to, or is this what you have been told by a leader or two. Or is this your gut feeling? Leaders are not responding because they have been directed not to.

Resentment shows when you speak in a derisive or demeaning way about a person or a group of people, you have distressing thoughts about them, you get furious for no good reason, get inexplicably angry and depressed, you find yourself going in circles to overcome irrational or negative feelings, you grit your teeth and smile when you really want to scream, you fake enthusiasm and excitement when you really need to say what you are feeling, but cant.

And what is Resentment :It is harboring animosity against a person or group of people whom you feel have mistreated you and leaving you in a seething, aching and an emotional turmoil, long-term suffering in silence, open expression of hurt (feedback or critique) is unwanted and uninvited, a grudge you hold against a person or group of people. You feeling offended, do not speaking and remaining silent, and lack of forgiving, inability to let go, or to forgive. Resentment can also lead to lack of objectivity and purpose.

So Editor, who are the Jamat resenting ? Can you elaborate more specifically. This can apply in this lawsuit to many , those commenting, silent, and to Dr SS, MM, Gray, Alnaz Nagib, AK and other leaders. Maybe what you are picking up is resentment from lack of information, feed back, knowledge or understanding or open expression of hurt (feedback or critique) is unwanted and uninvited or really encouraged by Leaders in question.

We also need to be careful we say what we mean as those reading comments are global and from a diverse background and languages. So please don’t think I am trying say you don’t know the meanings of resentment. You probably know better than me.

* United Kingdom

Why share with every
On December 4th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Why do I respond to all Murids and share my thoughts with all. @ Alnaz. First and foremost, Prophet Muhammed (Saws pbuH) and Imam wishes us all to seek and share our knowledge, and to treat every murid and their views with respect. Imam also wishes and guides us to be inclusive. Remembering in London 2 months ago Imam asked the global Leaders present to share Imams guidance and “thoughts” with the Jamat.

Secondly; Secularly, the top CEO’s of the world today say that for success we must build trust and more ideas and thoughts need to be generated from amongst ourselves and our respective organizations, and every thought and idea from everyone internally should be considered and given an equal hearing and chance.

Third; When we have something to say and when Leaders listen and respond, even if they do not agree, we feel an enhanced sense of belonging, a sense of comfort and of care. All Leaders need to know. Some did. Now they all do.

Fourth, Murids who are commenting and reading these comments come from diverse traditions and mindset within the West and globally. There are also different national levels and ages. They too think and interpret the same information and facts differently. A sentence or word to you and me can mean something else to someone else in for example Tajikistan, India Metropolis, India villages, Hunza, China, Syria, Persia etc. Quran says and Imam has reminded us regularly that we are all made different so we may know each other (by learning from each other, by sharing and understating each other)

For example; religiously and of relevant to the lawsuit. The word ” farman” is defined in the constitution and used during 4 JK ceremonies . Our Top 2 leaders (Dr SS and AK) certainly do not understand what one of the meanings of farman and what is a Talika. I think they know, and did not mean to say what they said on the record which they may have believed (wrongly) was for only non Ismaili consumption and irrelevant (wrongly) in the lawsuit. I also think they were caught off guard and could not articulate. These questions are a part of all the leadership orientation programme and out-reach programs over the last 10 years and which are approved by Dr SS and his Dept at DJI in Aiglemont coordinating 16 institutions. Dr SS and AK have attended them and Dr SS in fact was instrumental in the content and delivery of them, as head of ITREB and IIS (They ll report to DJI)

Fifth; The question we need to ask is ; Do we, and can we “effectively” articulate with comfort key and the challenging questions regarding our faith and practices, both internally and externally, and between our brothers and sisters in all parts of the world.

Sixth; Some of the name calling and language on the Vancouverite site may be normal for them, and not insulting to them. I have listen to inter action by the youth and the language and words they use jovially and daily to communicate. Imam wishes and guides us to be more pluralistic and to act with cosmopolitan values at all times. MSMS said that change is constant and inevitable and that we must be active participants in managing change in a direction which is in our collective and the common good of all.

Remembering Prophet Mohammed (saws pbuh)did not retaliate when rubbish was thrown on him or change his course the next day. He demonstrated the power of patience and love. Remembering what Imam said on the evening of 15 October 2010 to the world about working together and changing the media mind set. Remembering this unprecedented case and debate is new and a milestone for all. Remembering leaders must encourage feedback, debate and listen to thoughts and ideas from every murid.

Seventh; I understand why & when a 74 year old or an Itmadi or Leaders does not debate and says Sabar (Patience). Also when Alama Nasirudin is excluded and waiting for 9 years for a response but continues his work. In his lecture on U Tube he says Farmans are delivered by Imam to be shared. Farmans are not meant to be locked away or edited. He says the farman during their Mulakat of 45 minutes, recorded by Dr SS has not been shared as directed by Imam.

Eight; Remembering we are in the knowledge society and we need to be enabled, and able to act and articulate our faith with comfort ( internally as a priority, and also externally ) Remembering BUI as directed by Imam needs to be as good as the secular in every way and of early learning, where enquiry and creativity should not to be stifled but the potential allowed and nurtured to be actualized to the full).

Finally; Remembering Imam wishes us to excel, and be ambassadors who act and project the Jamat and Imamat as being a pluralistic community having cosmopolitan ethics. Remembering Leaders have ready willing and able resources who they should use and not exclude for the wrong reasons. Remembering what Al Waez’s (including Abually) have advised about change, BUI, and the real needs of our Jamat.

Alnaz; I hope you can now fully understand why I respond and share. I am sorry if this response is long because viewers & Leaders are global and from diverse traditions, backgrounds and mindset.

I pray that this case is concluded on or before 7th December. Ameen I look forward to meeting you and Nagib some day soon. And Nagib thank you for the invite.

* United Kingdom

@ Bloglaw :Did you receive any response from SS?
On December 4th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Excellent post.
I was curious about the response by SS for your open and mailed challenge.
Please do share with us if you receive any.

My father 75 also warns me repeatedly that I am unduly too involved emotionally and intellectually in the lawsuit.
He thinks my spirituality is of no significance in this case. He does not believe in "divine intervention"
The leaders will get their way and MHI for the sake of maintaining the credibility of vast Institutional network will support the leaders. He is worried I will be devastated if the ruling is adverse to my belief. And my faith might be affected.
Also he thinks the leaders may hurt me in indirect ways.

But I disagree with him.
I emphasize the need to share my views and need to support the defendants in principle.
This is my moral obligation.
We always have to stand up for the weaker segments of the society no matter where they are.
Everyone is going to get on a bandwagon behind a successful person whether ethical or not.

I also have never known these 2 defendants personally but they are in my prayers every single day
I had not even seen the book till about a month ago.

But I agree to their principle and this website has provided me a lot of knowledge so I want to support them
More than all of that I think the lawsuit is about the basic tenets and doctrines of our faith
I feel hypocrites like of SS for too long have hijacked it and things have to change
The Institutions are totally deaf ear to the general jamat.

Only Chamchas can go around happily enjoying themselves behind the names of IMAMAT institutions but the real believers are silently suffering and they need someone like you and Alnaz and Nagib to bring them out of their plight, which is not happy.

One person "Shivji” on Vancouverite arrogantly wrote and used the word "sages” for individuals who are posting here quoting ginans and Farmans and Quran without any secular knowledge or something like that but he seems very oblivion of the fact that most of us are highly educated and successful in secular world as well (Alhamd-aallah)

You have never mentioned but you sure sound like an excellent lawyer and I am a Surgeon myself. So it is ok to be called a sage for also knowing our faith well because most people well educated in secular world are likely to understand the principles of faith also well because they are blessed with intelligence to understand most subjects well by their creator.

Also the ability to express our thoughts in simple language without undue jargon of words and phrases, which do not reflect any wisdom or sound knowledge, is a blessing.

* United States

Response by Dr SS
On December 5th, 2010 Concerned Momin (not verified) says:

Bloglaw's open letter was a request to Dr Sachedina to give information to all leaders. I wonder if he responded to the request.

In his response to Zeenat, Dr Sahedina should have responded to issues raised by Zeanat and also at the very least informed her if after the meeting on 15 Oct 2010, either Imam decided to change his mind about conciliation or why is the consent signed by Alnaz not enough to conclude the case and different from directions given by MHI on 15 Oct 2010, and why is he or other leaders not meeting Alnaz and Nagib to even discuss this issue ?

Maybe Dr Sachedina will do so in his response to Zeenat's reply to his letter ?

* United Arab Emirates

@Bloglaw
On December 4th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Bloglaw, I wish to add to my comment, that there is no harm in having a debate, have it in a more "civilised" manner rather than having a debate in an "uncivilised" manner. Thanks once again.

* Canada

@Bloglaw
On December 4th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Bloglaw. Thanks for your posting. With regard to name calling, etc. by other site, I wonder whether they all are teenagers? Even if they are teenagers, they are "Ismailis". Our faith tells us to "respect" people. Whether we live in western society or eastern society, we must respect all human beings and infact all creations of Allah including the environment, and not hurt anybody. Our actions, even what we speak and also our thoughts towards others, is part of our daily deeds.

Our Beloved Hazar Imam has always said that He wants His Spiritual Children to be "united". We all are His Spiritual Children, and He loves us more than we love Him. When an Ismaili verbally hurts his/her spiritual brother/sister, that Ismaili is hurting our Mowla, because Mowla loves all His Murids. Bloglaw, one day Inshallah when I will be in UK, it will be a great pleasure meeting you, and share your great knowledge. Thank you.

* Canada

Mawlana Hazar Imam loves us more than we love Him!
On December 4th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MS. YASMIN! Once again Nizar Shivji is at your Service! I have read your blog and I feel very confident that if we all think like the way you have expressed your thoughts, the “respect beget the respect.” I think we all can be triumphant to conquer the defeat of lowliness and narrow-mindedness. It is not an easy task but we can always try! Ismailism like other well known religions is preaching us to restraint ourselves under all precarious circumstances. The life is very fragile and limited in living form; therefore, the good deeds will not go unnoticed! Mawlana Hazar Imam loves us more than we love Him! With my affectionate prayers for all my Ismaili Muslims brethren, and with Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Response from SS to my open letter
On December 4th, 2010 Zeenat Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

Dear Ms Zeenat Allahrakhya,

With reference to your email, please rest assured that my work in serving Mawlana Hazar Imam is entirely in accordance with his wishes and guidance, and aims to fulfill the objectives that he establishes. In his infinite wisdom and at his pleasure, Mawlana Hazar Imam has entrusted to me certain responsibilities, which I shall continue to fulfill to the best of my ability for as long as he desires. Although you may have a different view of the actions that you ascribe to me, my conscience is clear that all my efforts are in the interest of ensuring Mawlana Hazar Imam’s absolute comfort and convenience. It is he who judges my failures and shortcomings.
In closing, I may add that the vocabulary as well as tone of your note are incompatible with the spirit of unity and shared respect among Ismaili brothers and sisters.

With Ya Ali Madad,

My response to the above (sent today):

Mr Shafik Sachedina,

Your response to my e-mail has been received and typically you have
dodged the main issue. Nobody is in doubt about your work and service
to the Imam, but it is hardly believable that the Imam has given you
Himself the right to act inappropriately in His presence. However hard
and dedicatedly you work for the Imam, you must always remember that
that this is a privilege granted upon you and in the presence of the
Imam, you must act with "adab", especially mindful that murids who
love Him will get hurt with such "beadabi" in the presence of the Lord
of the worlds (which given your demeanor, you do not believe Him to
be). I will once again insist that you cannot continue this kind of
behavior around our beloved Imam and if you do not want to agree to
this then you should resign. That would be the honorable thing to do
given that you have hurt so many of us. I will certainly not apologize
for my tone and vocabulary because I am extremely annoyed and upset
with you, which I have every right to be.

I hope you have understood what I am trying to say and will shed some
of your arrogance in order to realize that it is actually you who has
created this strife between brothers and sisters, and only your humble
acceptance will mend it.

Zeenat Allahrakhya
Murid

Dr SS should accept & resign ...
On December 4th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Zeenat, you are right. Dr SS should accept and apologise where he is so obviously wrong and arrogant, and offer his resignation, and conclude this case before the court hearing on Monday as directed by Hazar Imam on 15 Oct 2010.

* United Arab Emirates

SS' silence speaks volumes!!!
On December 5th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

First you may be the first to receive a reply from a top leader. Congrats.

Importantly, SS did NOT deny any aspects of our reporting on the Oct 15 mulakat. If we had either misreported or exaggerated the facts in our reports he would have said so.

* Canada

Reply to Alnaz
On December 5th, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

Brother Alnaz, I was happy to receive a response from SS and the wordings of his response, neatly dodging my main issues of complaint, convinced me even further and strengthened my resolve to protest against such blatant disregard for Hazar Imam and His wishes. Yes, he certainly did not deny anything about the reports of October 15 but is still not regretting his actions before and thereafter. It is imperative that we all stand up for our Mowla and voice openly our concerns.
Thank you very much for your response.
Best wishes and God bless.

@ Bloglaw
On December 3rd, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

You are absolutely right. The onus of the proof, in all civil cases, is on the plaintiff. It is his responsibility to satisfy the court about his case contents. This is true even in developing countries like India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh etc.
The benefits of doubt, if any, in all such cases is given to defendant.

Things happen for good and it is the Will of HI
On December 3rd, 2010 Sadrudin (not verified) says:

YAM.

Yes, proof requirements lies with Plaintiff. I reviewed briefs and I do agree many things mentioned are hearsay and therefore those will stricken by the Court.

Also, I noticed that our Ismaili constitution is not discussing how to disperse firmans to Jamat. This itself says, HI deliberately protected Jamat from Tariqha board's dictatorship, otherwise many Jamati members would be subject to disciplinary actions. When HI is speaking about pluralistic Jamat, our Tariqha board is busy galvanizing the Jamat as a one type of Jamat and that you can noticed how Satada and Chandrat ceremonies are conducted along with announcements. This law suit is one of their example. I am still wondering, why Tariqha board has not taken action against on defendants similar to Meharali? The answer is simple, HI will not cooperate in this matter and therefore, they bang the wrong door.

Before, HI visited to Huston Jamat, he did not authorize Jamats to travel there but many did go and so HE immediately sarcastically mentioned about there presence in his firman. This incident itself is saying Imam is blunt and he will not shy about it if someone does not do correct. This was not the case when Imam came for discovery meeting. I do remember in 80's Imam was mad at the leadership (leadership went to see Imam in France) and during that mulakat Imam broke the table glass with his feast and send the leadership back to home. To Him at that time, the leadership was doing monkey business.

I am still wondering where can I find the copy of the new Nikha, Nimaz and Funeral services? Is Tarikha board going to sleep on it. Isn't those books belong to Jamat? Are we facing the similar time period that happen Europe passed through and invented the New World.

* United States

A Parallel ? - 8 years and still waiting ?
On December 2nd, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

On Vancouverite Ali says “ .. I see a parallel with Allama Nasirudin who rebelled against the leadership and formed his own cult group. Nagib, Alnaz and Bloglaw are headed for that route. No regrets.” News Editor says “ Some may dispute that Allama Nasirudin formed his own cult. Some may say he is part of a cultural variation that occurs among Ismailis from different ethnic groups and languages. This issue remains a matter of debate I think.”

Reply by Bloglaw :

Well said Editor I agree with you Editor that there may be other reasons including cultural traditions and variations. I am also totally with you that we should and reverse the culture of timidity and fear of the past with constructive and reasoned debate.

Is Allama Nasiruddin the same one I found on a google search, who has a 7 series of 10 minute lectures he delivered in June 2010 & has uploaded them on U-tube ?.

He says he has written 100-150 books on Ismailism, Soul, Batin, and Imamat etc. He also met Hazar Imam and Dr Shafik Sachedina with Fakir Hunzai of IIS for 45 minutes some 8-9 years ago. He describes the mulat and the Farman by Hazar Imam most eloquently and with immense love and reverence.

He has he says written Qasidas(Ginans) which have been accepted as by Hazar Imam as Ginans. These are recited in many JK’s. He adds he gave some of his books to Dr Shafik Sachedina as directed by Hazar Imam in order for IIS s to collaborate, publish and work together.

This was 8-9 years ago and he is still waiting to hear from from IIS or Dr S Sachedina to progress this collaborationas directed by Hazar Imam. He also says in these lectures that Fakir Hunzai of IIS can verify the meeting and directions given by Hazar Imam.

* United Kingdom

@ Bloglaw re: above post of Dec. 2nd
On December 4th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ya Aly madad, brother Bloglaw. Thank you so much for this informative post: I never knew this gentleman had had a Mulaqat with Hazer Imam, I thought he had just met S.S.
Keep up your good work, brother Bloglaw, many of us really appreciate your effort and are grateful that you take the trouble to respond so patiently, logically, and courteously to the other party, even when they are nasty and write in a truly disgusting way...(I had read two of their lines once, in one of your posts, and ever since then I just scroll down to your response, skipping their comments...:-)
It is a pity you are so far away and I cannot go to England, for it would have been wonderful to meet you!
Mowla tamaaro bahuj bhalo karè. Ameen. Take care.

* Canada

Would Imam single out Alnaz and Nagib ?
On December 2nd, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

Has any action been taken against this Murid by Dr Sachedina or NCAB or ICAB after the Mulakat ?

Are any of his Ginans or books or sections in them against the Imam or ismailism ? Some of his books are co authored by leading Ismaili scholars and a world leading authority on Quran who works with IIS ? Do the books not contain Imams guidance and farmans ?
He says openly on the internet that he has continued his work as directed by Imam and continues to publish books etc.

Why then no action or lawsuit against that Murid but a lawsuit against Alnaz and Nagib?

why does IIS not review the books given by him and meet him and work together with him. This is a part of their mandate and especially since Imam has given directions to work together with this Murid. Maybe IIS are not aware or waiting for the books and instructions from Dr Sachedina?

* United Arab Emirates

When and who retained Mr Gray ?
On December 2nd, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Follower on Vancouverite says “ Bloglaw/Spinner, you say on your beloved Nagib’s website the following: “Regarding the affirmation on 12 May. It was after the lawsuit was filed on 6 April 2010. The Judge directed discovery despite the affirmation. ……. Knowing the defence and issue I am surprised Mr Gray did not do a better and more conclusive job when drafting of that Affirmation. …….” Bloglaw, so the following sworn statements of the Imam (affirmation) are not clear enough for you? Or are you just that dumb? Bloglaw, the judges are not as dumb as you and the 2 clowns. If Imam did not file the Statement of Claim on Apr 6, when did he actually retain the firm of Ogilvy Renault ? Sheer stupidity !

BLOGLAW REPLIES

- Regarding your question of when the law firm was retained, and who instructed them to file the lawsuit ?. Look at the time line of what happened after the letter of 18 Feb to 6 April 2010. The defendants say it was not Imam but it was Dr SS and or MM who retained and instructed the law firm to file the lawsuit
Regarding Affirmation - Can you think of a very good and compelling reason why the top law firm in drafting the affirmation did not simply say the following conclusively, and why not file it with an appropriate affidavit in court.

1 I personally retained the law firm of Ogivy Renault on x date (or on ……… I authorized Dr SS and MM to retain them)
2 On xx date I personally authorised Ogivy Renault to prepare and file a lawsuit against the named defendants in case no ……( or on xx I authorized Dr SS and MM to authorized the firm of Ogivy Renault to file the lawsuit)
3 I personally reviewed and approved the contents of the claim on xxx date and authorized Ogilvy Renault to file the claim in case no.
4 I reaffirm that I am therefore the Plaintiff in case no …
5 Etc……..

Regarding timeline - Not forgetting Dr Sachedina said it was end of march when Imam decided on taking legal action. If So the law firm was retained, consulted, advised, prepared claim, personal review by Imam and a lawsuit filed on 6 April. All this within one week ? Unbelievable ?with no pre action letters ? or any contact with Alnaz ?. Dr SS said Imam wished this to be resolved internally and yet Dr SS or MM made no contact with Alnaz whatsoever before 6 April 2010. And no efforts to meet and conciliate after 15 October 2010 ?

* United Kingdom

@Bloglaw, A Request !!
On December 2nd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Bloglaw, your posts are pretty good. However, I urge you to stop giving fuel to the group of eight, you will never satisfy them. The more you respond, they get their fuel and the fire keeps burning.

Did you notice, I just went to see lawsuit21010 website and although it is last updated on October 15, 2010, they have NOT posted the Appeal decision denying Gray's Appeal, nor posted the cross examination of Lindblom (he was crucified on cross examination, I bet he regrets getting involved in this case), and other important documents, revised facta, etc.

You and a few others continue debating with them. If no one writes back, what will they do, where will their fuel come from. They may read your comments here and try to respond to you, but Salim is delighted in getting attention (finally his web site became famous and attracts hits) to them loving to write back with same old garbage - garbage in garbage out, but don't feed them anything. Let them talk between themselves.

I also urge all not to even bother reading their comments (I rarely go there, last I went there was maybe over two months ago) or to even respond to anything they say. Why give them satisfaction? Salim had told me when I spoke with him, that he does not go to JKs, has not done so for a long time, does not know anything about the institutions, etc. That comment itself was revealing. What to do with such people. I think (someone told me) that he had criticized (or someone else on his site did) MHI for allowing the books distributed to be kept.

Am I surprised that he loves writing what I term as subjective posts, he is unable to be objective, just as the group of eight. Likes attract.

The Eight's Guru, Abu Ali Missionary (and incidentally my Guru too) once said to me when I was complaining about something, he responded: When walking on your path, you come across a dog barking, what will you do? Go on your fours to bark back?

I said, NO, I will walk away to the other side and get away. Well then remember that you will often come across a brother, sister, employer, neighbour, etc., in the guise of a dog barking away, you have a choice, bark back or walk away. Ever since I remember that, and simply walk away from those who in that moment are like dogs - with fantastic fringe benefits - no blood pressure, no stress, no worries and I can sleep well.

So why not expend your energies, instead of arguing with them, enlighten the concerned people with your assessments in lay terms for all to understand the case better.

You cannot "show" the blind the beauty of a sunset, nor how "bright" the rainbow is. Let them be.

* Canada

@Alnaz re: above post of Dec. 2nd (Request to Bloglaw)
On December 4th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ya Aly madad, brother Alnaz.
Abu Aly Missionary's advice to you is indeed excellent advice. Still, I feel that brother Bloglaw's posts in response to the posts on the other site are really needed, for those who read that site's unpleasant comments (which also totally lack accuracy and twist everything) often visit this site and they can then get the true version of the facts from Bloglaw. If he stops his posts here, then where will they get to read about the real facts?
And Shukhar Mowla, he responds to them very calmly, rationally, and courteously too. I am not sure his responses are adding fuel to the other side, but he is, no doubt, straightening the records, not only for now, but for the future's archives too, if you understand what I mean.
Please forgive me if I have offended you any way, brother Alnaz.
Take care, and do hang in there. Many are praying that Mowla Bapa's wish be realized.

* Canada

Proof is in eating the pudding !!!
On December 2nd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

@Bloglaw (not to forget !!)

Forget the Affirmation. Forget the lawsuit, who filed, etc. Forget who retained Gray.

Remember, and not forget, that at the discovery, Nagib LEFT it open to the Imam to say whatever the He pleases. He chose not to insult the Imam by asking Him questions. All I can say is, shabash to Nagib.

BUT what did the Imam do. He would have needed one whole minute to say the following (please confirm the time it takes, read it and ask some to count the time it takes to say it):

Mr. T and Mr. J:

I have been seeking since the mid 90s to have you stop publishing My farmans. I wrote you a letter, and another one, and my brother also sent you a letter, in addition to sending messages from my officers. I brought this lawsuit as you refused to accept my farmans, and your response has been to allege forgery without any foundation, and you have been questioning everything my officers do on my behalf. I have confidence in my leaders, an they do exactly what I ask of them.

Well here I am now in person. I want you to stop publication and distributing my farmans. In fact, I don't want anyone else to distribute my farmans by emails, post them on internet, and only accept farmans that ITREB delivers the Jamat.

Will you confirm to abide by my Farman on these issues as I have been seeking.

Gray that is all, that is all I have to say, I will take leave. File my transcript in the court and obtain a judgment based on their defence that if they are satisfied I want them to stop, they will stop. I trust that they will now sign a consent judgment and abide by my wishes.

(Ok, ok, I know: you can say it in under a minute if you speak faster.)

Wow, instead the Imam says, "may I make a suggestion", and spends about 30 minutes, although Nagib was asking for 5 minutes, the court trippled it to 15 minus, and he doubles it to 30 minutes, and NEVER once said anything remote to the above spill.

Review one point only:

Assuming we are crooks, so much that the Imam has to bring an action to stop us. In fact a plaintiff and defendant are almost always fighting each other. In this action, the Plaintiff claims we have STOLEN his "works".

Now after alleging that we have stolen his "works" what does he do: tells me, "the annotated farmans can be produced, IF YOU WANT". To a thief he is offering more goodies - even more profound because the annotated version includes HIS THOUGHT PROCESSES. I am still reeling when I remember his look, his eyes focused into mine when he said, "If you want".

This fact alone answers the question, who is the real plaintiff. Would a real plaintiff GIVE more goodies to the one whom he alleges stole them in the first place?

Of course not everyone will agree, specially the group of eight, but frankly who cares if they continue till Qayamat to continue to attack us. It requires inner eyes to "see" the truth. Over a billion read the Quran, some know every word and sentence by heart, yet cannot "see"? is is the fault of the Quran they cannot "see"?

* Canada

If imam was the plaintiff
On December 2nd, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

If imam was the plaintiff and he wanted to win the case he would have done that and the meeting would have ended in less than a few minutes, as you have stated. No reason for any plaintiff not to do so especially one represented by the best lawyers money can buy,

Imam did not want those questions put to him by Mr Gray and Mr Gray did not or could not do so even if he wanted to do so.

Shukhar Alhamdullilah and i hope our leadership will reflect on what you have said and do as Imam directed in that meeting.

Most lawsuits are settled out of court and many at the last minute. I hope history will show this was settled by agreement and conciliation.

* United Arab Emirates

@Alnaz
On December 2nd, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Alnaz. Thanks for your posting. As I have always said Our Beloved Hazar Imam loves all His Murids. He is "definitely" taking care of you and Nagib. If people on other sites "attack" you both verbally, call you names, just accept it, because Mowla is watching and your "gunah'" are washed away. Never give up. My prayers are always with you both. Thank you.

* Canada

@ Yasmin @ Alnaz
On December 3rd, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Ameen - Yasmin. is right Alnaz You should accept and dont get upset. Bloglaw is responding to all their comments with respect with reason and with facts. This will make them reflect and discuss amongst themselves, their friends and with leaders. They will know the truth.

The editor of vancouverite has said he talks to some of the top leaders. So they too will know and understand the truth. The silent majority are also reading the comments and so are the Noorani family and Hazar Imam. they also know.

Alnaz, Mawla is with you and guiding you. bloglaw is doing a unique and special seva.. Alnaz, who do you think asked Bloglaw, or sent him to help, and who inspires him to do so ? Your request to Bloglow suggests you do not know and have never met bloglaw? bloglaw also says he has never met Nagib either? yes?

* United Arab Emirates

@Bloglaw
On December 4th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

I have not met Bloglaw or any one else who write comments here.

I am deeply grateful for all prayers, encouragement and support by so many, I really appreciate it.

With respect to writing in their website. The way I see it, is that those who can argue against the Imam's stated position, or those who can and do criticize the Imam, or those whose arguments are for the sake of argument whether or not they make sense, then we should ask the question, are we the reason that gives them fuel.

Most counselors tell their patients, as I tell my clients, don't argue with the foolish.

MSMS in one of his farman said, that Isa Nabi even crossed the road to avoid the likes of the group of eight.......such people get their 'rush' and 'high' by the reaction from others, best way to deal with them is to shun them so they don't get satisfaction from the other's reaction.

* Canada

@Alnaz
On December 4th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Alnaz. As I have said before let those on other site say whatever they wish to, which is very sad. I think that you and Nagib have that "inner peace", that Our Beloved Mowla Blessed you both, not just for 5 minutes you had asked for but for 30 minutes, because He loves you both as His Spiritual Children. This Blessing is more precious than anything in the world. Thank you.

* Canada

I have never met Bloglaw.
On December 3rd, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

I have never met Bloglaw. His postings are interesting and well articulated.

But I am in Nairobi and whenever Bloglaw or any of you guys travel to this part of the world, we can meet. I go to Parklands JK so you will find me there everyday except when I come for legal matters in Canada [so far 4 times in the last few months] You are welcome home for Chai, Bhiriani and Samosa ;-)

Nagib

@Nagib re: above post of Dec. 3rd
On December 6th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Many thanks for the invitation to the rest of us! That is generous of you! By the way, I am vegetarian! :-)
Ya Aly madad!

* Canada

@Not to forget
On December 2nd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

You gave me goosebumps to read your post. Now I am ever more than certain of the out come in favor of the defendants.
I think Nagib and Alnaz Should go home and sleep and not worry at all. Ignore the posts on the Vancouverite. There is no meaning to them.

Our Mawla is with you You need no one else. You know the bliss of his presence. He came all the way to Canada to meet with you guys everything else was a make believe.

I have had a similar encounter ( Quite tiny compared to yours) in my life and it has given meaning to my existence. I cannot exit from that bliss even for a second.I find Him with me all the time running to fulfill even my smallest wish. Shukhar!
If you were at Daresalam GJ darbar , his hand gesture of "move all worries to the side and enjoy the evening" With His right hand he was pushing everything away! Truly remarkable gesture! I can never forget it and its implications subsequently in my life.

* United States

Consequences of Judgment on 7th December
On December 2nd, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

@ Alibhai Jiwani - The reason I feel we should all wish for conciliation is because Imam directed them to settle. However you are right that Imam may wish a different outcome. I hope the Jamat and leaders who are reading these feedback and suggestions are passing them on with their thoughts.

If the case is dismissed on 7th Dec, then
1 History will show Imam has never sued His murids,
2 The sanctity of mehmani will be preserved.
3 Farmans will be accessible to the Jamat in all JK’s and in remote locations
4 Farmans as delivered and annotated by Imam, will be available to the Jamat.
5 There will be resignations and change. The root causes will be reversed more quickly.
6 External potential impact and challenges will be lower to manage.
7 Dr SS statements made under oath can be disregarded about Farmans and the reason Farmans are edited by DR SS and the Leaders, is because Imam thinks in French, and so DR SS suggesting Imam does not say in English what Imam means ?

What if Judgment is given against the defendants ?
1 Imam is the plaintiff and there was infringement. (copyright has not been challenged)
2 History will show Imam sued his followers over the distribution his Farmans to his murids, which he made for his Murids.
3 The sanctity of memani and its meaning will become a question .
4 Jamat will continue not have access to Imam's Farmans in JK’s even in remote locations (for some time if ever).
5 DR SS says under oath that only edited farmans and when publised by ITREB are Farmans (not as and when delivered by the Imam). So edited farmans will be available. During Darbar when Imam delivers a Farman we cannot share with our Jamats because Imam thinks in French according to Dr SS. (As in case of the London and Singapore GJ Farmans, which have been edited by the Leaders)
6 Any major changes will take much longer, and so will the widening gap between the ground realties and Imams Farmans
7 External impact in future can potentially be much higher.
8 If Judgment is given against the defendants then there must be other compelling reasons which we will understand in time.

There is therefore every reason in my limited understanding and judgment to conciliate and end this case as directed by Imam. I hope and pray there will be a consent agreement and an order on or before 7th December. Ameen.

* United Kingdom

@Bloglaw One more outcome possible !!
On December 2nd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

One outcome is not indicated above.

Neither Gray nor we win the motions, and the Judge says Summary Judgment cannot be given, go to trial, or a Summary Trial.

Then they will have to produce all documents (is this what the Imam meant when he said, they (annotated farmans) can be produced??) in Affidavit of Documents which Gray will have to produce, then off to trial, where, if it goes to trial, MHI would be a witness and testify in open court..

I doubt the case will go to trial (he'll ask, what happened, we had agreed to settle the matter??), but is possibility.

* Canada

@ Alnaz: One more outcome!
On December 3rd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

As far as I understood from the versions of discovery meeting with MHI, that MHI did not use the word" Settlement."
I thought he "suggested" go for "Consent judgement" Are the 2 words synonymous in legal language? My understanding was first one outside the court mutually settled and the second in the court by the judge. But I am not a lawyer.

Indeed if the case goes to trial we are in for a major breakthrough! Something close to Zahurat.MHI may decide to come to the courts. The entire era may change! From what I have read about this highly incredible moment is that in 3 days the thinking of the entire population can be changed to believers! It is that powerful an event.

But I think since MHI used the word "end the case" somewhere in the conversation on Oct 15th so I think it will end soon.

Also I doubt if already there are 313 hakikati momins united ,sharp in intellect like snake and compassionate and soft at heart like pigeons. ( Pre requisite for Zahurat)( ref : Kalame Imame Mubin , Ismailia Association for India publication ,ISMS Farman)

So far there are only 2, Nagib and Alnaz that I know. So we may have to wait a long time before that happens!

* United States

We are very far from that
On December 6th, 2010 nagib (not verified) says:

We are very far from that position. We would be satisfy if we could reach the position of the dust under the feet of our Imam.... Even that level will come in the future, Inshallah, after many many challenges, trials [LOL] and tribulations, and many tests to pass.

* Canada

@bloglaw: Regarding judgement on 7th dec
On December 2nd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Chances of conciliation at this point are close to zero according to me. You have very well delineated all the right reasons why if the case is dismissed in the favor of defendants that it is a better outcome for jamat and Imamat

Hazar Imam said to the defendants on 15th oct 2010, that he hopes to meet them again and work with them , considering this remark it seems more strong that judgement will not be against the defendants. MHI 's words are never incorrect.

Also He being Almighty in the zahiri and batuni both the worlds he will never defeat a weak party.( Even if for a second assume He is the true plaintiff) There is no chivalry in defeating unarmed soldiers.( Alnaz and Nagib are without lawyers)! Plaintiff on the other end has an army of lawyers.And again what is the crime? Spreading his farmans to his Murids?? What a heinous crime??

It is against the principle of "Ali" within him. (Review history of Hazarat Ali and Lord Krishna)

From all points it is only rationale and just that the case gets dismissed. I am pretty sure it will be. (Inshaallah). That is why Mawla is cool!

* United States

I thought this litigation will resolve with slap on the wrist!
On December 2nd, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. BLOWLAW! When I looked thoughtlessly from all points of view on this litigation, I felt, it would be a matter of less consequence, and would be resolved with a slap on the wrist! But it developed into a prominent court case on infringement. This infraction, once again, I tried to view it with mysticism in my mind because this court case is first of its kind which is disputed between the Imam of the time and His Murid. I felt sure; it would be resolved in a matter of time. But it has hung around us for many months and we do not have the resolution as we had expected!

It has become a tribulation for all those who are closely monitoring this court case. Mawlana Hazar Imam, the Ismaili Muslims Institution, the Ismaili Muslims Community, Mr. Nagib Tajdin, and Mr. Alnaz Jiwa. They all have produced challenging evidence via documentation. The answers are not that easily obtainable because it is not simple to blurt out anything just to satisfy the curiosity. There will be consequence if something is spoken out of place.

Realistically The Canadian Law has provided the opening to both – the plaintiff and the defendants. This opening began with a lawsuit filed on April 06, 2010 by Mawlana Hazar Imam against Mr. Nagib Tajdin and Mr. Alnaz Jiwa on infringement of copyright by publishing and distributing the Farman Book. Then the Discovery was held on October 15, 2010. The Discovery became irrelevant because of many irregularities. Now we are steadily waiting for Summary Judgment which will be held on December 07, 2010. There are lots of accusations against the Ismaili Muslims Institution, and the defendants, and so on …. The court case has advanced to its pinnacle which will provide the judgment in time to come. Whichever way the decision goes, Mawlana Hazar Imam is philanthropic, omnipresent, and omnipotent. The Defendants are steadfast with their belief on Noor of the Imam. They feel their submission to the court a defence is not against the Imam, but against the usurper.

The doctrine of Ismaili Muslims faith will remain intact. Nobody can undermine the system of belief of Ismaili Faith. Where do I stand? I stand in the Holy Huzur Poor Noor of Hazarat Dhani Salamat Datar Noor Mawlana Shah Karim Al-Husseini Hazar Imam to beg for His Grace and Infinite Mercy. This is also my prayers for my Ismaili Muslims brothers and sisters. Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

@ ;an ordinary Murid
On December 2nd, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

The nine questions posed by an ordinary Murid to his uncle should also be posed to Vancouverite. However, I would like to add two more questions as follows:
10. Would Sachedina resign from his post?
11. Would MM expiate the great sin he committed by assisting SS in his heinous crafty criminal plot to totally ruin Nagib and Al Naz?

Imam Will Win.
On December 1st, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

I was wondering why the Imam never interfered, and never gave any evidence Himself, even at discovery.

I was wondering how the court would weigh that on one side, the defendants gave direct evidence of the consent, and on the other hand, the Plaintiff gave second-hand evidence only.

I was wondering if defendants can really prove to the court that the Aga Khan does not support the Plaintiff's case.

I was also wondering that if the court sides with the defendants, then how would that not be a loss in the eyes of the public for the Imam?

All four of those questions got answered by this case law extract quoted with the defendants' revised factum:

"..Such failure amounts to an implied admission that the evidence of the absent witness would be contrary to the party's case, or at least would not support it.”

So the court is obliged to believe that the absence of a direct affidavit from the Imam means that His evidence supports the defendants!

Either way, Imam wins! Brilliant!

Imam Will Win.
On December 1st, 2010 salim (not verified) says:

of course, we all knew it long time ago that HH will win this case...( no if's or but's or maybe's)

* Canada

@ Salim : reg :Imam will win
On December 3rd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Whichever party has MHI in principle and spirit with them that party will win not with just the name.

* United States

The other side
On December 1st, 2010 An ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

My uncle, 74, and old person and of Vancouverite type, told me few days back that, “The defendants have almost no chance to win the case, and hence my elderly advice to them is to settle the case as per HI’s directions for they are certainly to lose this case and its consequences are very dangerous to them.” Dangerous consequences he mentioned are in his own words are as follows:
1. “Soon they will not find any supporters from the Jamat. Particularly, when court verdicts that indeed there was infringement of Farmans by the defendants.’
2. “They will be required to pay heavy penalties.”
3. “After the court verdict hardly any Ismaili will visit Heritage web site and hence the desire of vizier sahib would be automatically met.”
4. “These two will be considered by all the Jamati members around the globe as renegades and enemy of Jamat.”
5. “There will be overwhelming demands from Jamat to take disciplinary action against these two.”
6. “Vizier sahib is likely to file a defamation case against them.”
After saying this he posed me a question, “Do you agree with me or not?”

Instead of replying to him directly, I posed a counter question, “What if the plaintiff case of infringement or otherwise is dismissed by the court in favor of defendants, would you, then, believe in their version of 15th October discovery? Namely:”
1. “That Al Naz was wrongly implicated in the case.”
2. “That HI has accepted Mehamani of chocolate box from him in principle but was not taken away by HI physically.”
3. “All Farmans of previous Imams are HI’s Farmans.”
4. “Hazar Imam does not think in French and makes Farmans in English.”
5. “There is no need of editing of HI’s Farmans.”
6. “HI was not at all unhappy with them in the meeting but was very empathetic and pleased with them.”
7. “That settlement conditions proposed by HI were different from which Grey and Sachedina had drafted and to which they were forcing defendants to agree and sign.”
8. “When there are any changes in the Farmans Dais are getting hurt.”
9. “Lastly, that this case was not filed by HI at all but by these leaders.”
As soon as I completed my counter question, he became furious and told me that I am a renegade and should be excommunicated from Jamat, and since then he does not talk to me.

Revised Factums for Summary Judgment Motions
On November 30th, 2010 heritage says:

Revised Factums have been posted Here:

2010-11-29 Summary Judgment : Plaintiffs Revised Combined Factums of Reply and of Motion

2010-11-29 Summary Judgment: Defendants' Revised Factums of Motion and of Reply

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

Farmans not to be followed? - says Sachedina.
On November 30th, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

Sachedina says under oath that Farmans spoken by Imam in a Didar are not to be followed until and unless the edited text version comes from ITREB. Those that are not published are no longer Farmans:

Extracts from my Summary Judgment motion:

44.
The claim therein that Farmans must be edited aligned with Sachedina's declarations over the years that Imam's Farmans must be edited, that the Imam "Thinks in French and Speaks in English", and with his general disrespect for the status of the Farmans and of the Imam in Ismaili Faith. If witness Sachedina is to be believed, the dozens of Farmans that never got released over the years, although they are full of guidance and blessings that were made to large gatherings of Ismailis who cherish those words and aim to follow them, although they are Divine, they are no longer "Farmans". This is quite contradictory and disrespectful to the tenet of Ismaili Faith that the Hereditary Imam is the bearer of the Light of God

45.
Contrary to the statement of claim, there is no established criteria for editing or
guidelines for publication or dissemination of Farmans. Mr Sachedina admits that the
Farman dissemination policy document dated March 2010 presented as Exhibit B in Mr
Sachedina's affidavit is a last-minute document that comes from Mr Manji, the President
of the Ismaili Council for Canada, and that it is not sent by the Imam. It is clear that
document and others have been created after the publication of the Golden Edition to
back the Statement of Claim.

46.
The Claim that the integrity of the Aga Khan's works is compromised is also wrong.
There is no evidence of mutilation or distortion. Quite the contrary, Ismaili Faith dictates
that the Imam's Farmans become effective and binding to Ismailis as soon as they are
spoken and as they are spoken. Tajdin also believes that Farmans cannot be edited and
has published them in their integral form.

47.
The premise in the claim that the Farmans must be edited before they are published is
not an Ismaili concept. There is no evidence that the Imam Edits Farmans because they
are, in Ismaili belief, from a Divine source. A judgment admitting without admissible
evidence that Imam edits the Farmans would reform the basis of the Ismaili religion in a
legal framework and it is not the mandate of judges to make changes to various religions
or to let anyone use the legal setup to do this.

References:

Cross-Examination of Sachedina p.59:#253, p.129: #544-#545, pp.147-150:#617 - #628, p.74: #306-#309

Affidavit of Nagib Tajdin sworn May 7, 2010, Moving Party’s Record, Tab 2, Paragraph 25-26

Affidavit of Nagib Tajdin sworn July 14, Tajdin's Responding Record, Tab 6, Paragraph 27-29, 18-22, 83-85

Affidavit of Mohamed Tajdin sworn July 7, Responding record Tab 8, Paragraph 17

Statement of Claim, Paragraph 23 & 20 & 34 &35

Statement of Defence of Tajdin, Paragraph 23.

Case is going to be dismissed in favor of the defendants
On December 1st, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

After reading the all the above sbmissions it seems almost certain that the case will be dismissed in favor of the defendants.
Hazar Imam has V.cleverly not given a sentence in favor of plaintiff despite showing up for the discovery. How amazing and wonderful! He appeared just for the defendants to boost their strength and show them the right path! He knows His leela very well. I hope SS is a history in no time. No one has to do anything.

* United States

LOOKING AT ALL ANGLE REALISTICALLY !
On November 30th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

News Editor vancouverite says to Bloglaw : You forget the Boston affidavit witnessed by two prominent people including a notary and a lawyer. Tragic how you purport to pose legal answers that fall short of facts. In that affidavit he asserts the facts which are unchallenged by any evidence. It is simply not enough to make a claim, you have to produce evidence. Get on with it Bloglaw – you are an alley lawyer. You’d do well in some Bombay bazaar selling legal advice

Bloglaw Replies

Editor : As usual you are not looking at all sides of the angle realistically or objectively. The Judge has to decide if Imam personally authorised and filed the lawsuit on 6 April 2010 based on the evidence of facts submitted by all parties. Did Imam do so and has Imam and or Mr Gray submitted affidavits in court saying so after 6 April 2010 ?. May be rules of evidence in Canada are different and if so I may be wrong. Of course the Judge will need to decide on the experts evidence of the signatures and defence-submissions by the defendants.

And on this issue, even if Imam authorised the lawsuit after 6th April (I am not saying this was or not the case), the judge has to dismiss the lawsuit if the Judge finds Imam did not authorise it ON OR BEFORE 6th April 2010.(based on evidence filed on this specific issue)

Regarding the affirmation on 12 May. It was after the lawsuit was filed on 6 April 2010. The Judge directed discovery despite the affirmation. If the Judge finds that the affirmation was signed by Imam and also rules it can be or is admitted for this hearing as evidence. The judge has to then also consider and rule on the first 3 sentences. They do not say specifically that “before” the lawsuit was filed Imam reviewed the claim, approved it for filing, and instructed the Lawyers to file it. Knowing the defence and issue I am surprised Mr Gray did not do a better and more conclusive job when drafting of that Affirmation. Some may say Mr Gray is not that brilliant. Some (Mr Gray/MM/Dr SS), may say this was a legal strategy, Some may say there was a higher hand & purpose, and some may say it was an oversight in the necessary care and attention to details.

I am being realistic, not confrontational or negative. This is something to think about. I am sure Dr SS MM and Mr Gray and their team are aware of this and will have included it in their latest submissions.

* United Kingdom

@Bloglaw re: above post of Nov. 30th
On December 1st, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Mowla tamnè sukhi raakhè, Bloglaw! Ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

The ruling most likely on Dec 7th 2010
On November 30th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

The case will be dismissed in favor of the defendants.
Mr. Gray has not convincingly proved that Imam indeed is the plaintiff except that he brought MHI for discovery.
But MHI did not give one sentence that said he is the real plaintiff
Neither did he say there was no forgery.
Discovery for whatever reason will have little meaning to Mr Gray and the court since nothing of importance was on record . Thanks to Mr. Gray.
MHI appeared because Dr.Sachedina has served Mawla for so many years so MHI decided to oblige.And maintain the honor of everyone involved.
But he ignored all the help given by Mawla.
The Consent judgement would have been in big favor of Dr Sachedina than the defendants if it was done as per MHI 's guidance.But it was not done. Thanks to malice in the hearts of the leaders.

Defendants are true momins.
MHI came to empower their morale so that they do not concede
Nagib and Alnaz both truly experienced his affection rather than His wrath.
Which gave them the truth even without asking a single Q.
MHI provided all that was needed for them.
Most importantly that he loves them.

There is not enough substance in the case to go to trial, since plaintiff 's lawyer has not convincingly proved that MHI is the real plaintiff.
The history will never say Hazar Imam sued His momins.
Any kind of settlement internally out of court will not be able to wipe out this "vital element" except the court ruling that
MHI is not the real plaintiff and the case dismissed!
So no one should wish for concilliation and internal settlement(except SS and MM)
MHI would have done this when he appeared for discovery if that was a desirable outcome.

* United States

Did Dr SS & MM give Imam the right information?
On November 30th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Soulmate - B L O G L A W: Your friends have failed to convince us that the Imam is not the Plaintiff. If your friends also fail to convince the court that HH is not the Plaintiff, will you then be willing to concede that He is the Plaintiff? Editor Vancouverite - You may see a ruling on that.

Reply Bloglaw

Maybe you or Editor can get and upload the latest submissions of both sides. One of the concerns I have is;
If Imam filed the lawsuit and has stated that Farmans are available to the Jamat in JK’s including remote locations. Before and after 6 April this is not the case. Not even today. I have checked. So was Imam given the correct information and if so would Imam have made such a statement in court ? Or filed the lawsuit ? If not why did Leaders not give the correct information to Imam, and in any event not make sure all Farmans are available and accessible in JK’s (Itreb’s)) by the Jamat ?

If the court gives judgment against or for the defendants, they will I am sure abide by a ruling of the court. Everyone will. Legalities or the ruling aside, I hope Leaders will ensure access to Farmans by the Jamat and the new book of Farmans will be available very soon.

* United Kingdom

We should all unconditionally abide by the wishes of MHI
On November 29th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. BLOGLAW! You and I have been obligated to present our comments on this litigation and the proceedings on this pertaining court case. We both have become hard hearted. May be I am wrong. We have to clear our minds and look with new perspective! I believe in amicable resolution and harmony in Ismaili Muslims Community! No matter what, as long as, Mr. Nagib Tajdin and Mr. Alnaz Jiwa are in the Ismaili Muslims Community, they are my brethren. Mr. Bloglaw, I am looking forward with you for a cuppa of Darjeeling tea in London, England! My favourite haunts are the Café in Harrods and Ritz. I enjoy scones (a small rich biscuit like pastry or quick bread) with fresh cream and warm liquid strawberry marmalade).

Both of us have successfully presented our arguments on discovery, summary judgement, and the trial if the court case continues to get the judgement. You have argued on the status of Hazar Imam and forgery. The argument goes on with no agreement about Hazar Imam’s status as being plaintiff! Therefore, the discovery has become meaningless because all parties are required not to argue about the appearance of Hazar Imam. The opponents are not able to establish that Hazar Imam is the plaintiff, or petitioner, or the claimant. The proponent has from the very beginning advocated that Mawlana Hazar is the plaintiff! The proponent argues strongly that Mr. Nagib Tajdin and Mr. Alnaz Jiwa had an excellent opportunity during the discovery but failed to ask five questions. Had he asked these questions, it appears Mawlana Hazar Imam would have definitely obliged Mr. Nagib Tajdin with answers. In this kind of legal proceeding, the judge will not prompt or make a fuss to get the answer from the plaintiff. The onus is on defendants! The reason is very simple; the judge has satisfaction that the plaintiff did not dishonour the requirement to attend the discovery. Therefore, the court’s requirement was met.

I do not think the lawyer; Mr. Brian Gray of Toronto in any way is slow in his understanding the relationship between the Imam and His Murid! He is slowly but surely progressing to acquire the systematic methodology in this court case. He is handsomely remunerated for his services and has his stretch of time for the completion of this court case. However, Mr. Nagib Tajdin and Mr. Alnaz Jiwa do not have the similar luxury to have an on going encounter with Mawlana Hazar Imam and Ismaili Muslims Institution! Whatever Mr. Nagib Tajdin and Alnaz are saying or implied, they should ponder about the original statement of claim by Mawlana Hazar Imam. Whatever that has transpired during the discovery should be assumed that it was a gift from Mawlana Hazar Imam to His Murid. My mind is bluntly prompting to me that the decision on this court case will be pronounced but my heart is prompting to me otherwise! Today I believe whatever the versions of this court case is pronounced by the plaintiff and the defendants should be left behind. We should look into future for betterment of Ismaili Muslims Community! We should all unconditionally abide by the wishes of Mawlana Hazar Imam and reaffirm our allegiance. This is our salvation!

I would like to thank everyone for giving their time in sharing their thoughts and knowledge. I take this opportunity to thank the Librarian Umed who have allowed and moderated this discussion. Mr. Bloglaw, like you we all do so because we care and out of love for the Imam. “May Mawlana Hazar Imam accept all our Seva, and grant us all more Seva, good health, happiness and both material and spiritual prosperity. AMEEN!! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Giving feedback and sharing
On November 29th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Giving feedback and sharing concerns is healthy and good for the Jamat, the institutions and the Leadership. Not a single person says there should be no conciliation including the Editor of, and those posting in Vancouverite and Mr Shivji. Everyone, Imam, Leaders, & Jamat agree on this. Yet there are no discussions/meetings for conciliation since the meeting in October. Unless there has been and we do not know about them ?. If so, can someone (Leaders/Alnaz/Nagib/Jamat members) let us know ?

* United Arab Emirates

There are no discussions
On November 30th, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

There are no direct discussions with the lawyer except those in the legal setup in front of the Prothonotary Tabib during the Case management Conferences.

Reply to Brother Abdullah (RE: letter to Sachedina)
On November 29th, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

Dearest Abdullah, thank you for your kind words and support. Mawlana Sultan Mohamed Shah has said in His memoirs, "Where there is love, there is no fear, and where there is fear, there is no love."

This then says it all. I have taken my stance out of love, completely without fear of any retaliation. After-all, what can they do to me? Excommunicate me? Kick me out of jamatkhanas? Stop me from any appointments to positions of leadership? They can do whatever. But they will not be able to remove my Mawla from my heart. Neither will I stop my campaign to have such leaders, who have no regard for the Imam, removed from their prestigious positions from which they reign like tyrannical kings.

I hope many more of my brothers and sisters will shed their fears aside, and stand up for our Mawla!!

At this juncture, I would like to thank Suleman for making such valid points.

@Zeenataara Allahrakhya re: above post (Nov. 29th)
On November 30th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
It is I who am grateful that you wrote this letter and posted it: it has, no doubt, awakened more than one reader. Insh'Allah, more members of the Jamat will actively get involved and press their leaders to take action.
And I thank you most sincerely also for this beautiful quote of M.S.M.S.'s Memoirs. Mowla sukhi raakhè, ameen.
Ya Aly madad, sister Zeenatara.

* Canada

I remember there is a Ginan
On November 29th, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

I remember there is a Ginan where this era-period is predicted. I think it was Ek Baar Phir or Pehli Baar ...? A time will come when ? Can anyone get thisGinan with the translation or a link for it ? Maybe it is on this site. I cant find and may not have the right name.

* United Arab Emirates

Trust
On November 28th, 2010 Suleman (not verified) says:

A few months ago, the Golden Jubilee Farman made by Hazar Imam in Singapore was read out in our jamatkhana. Not extracts but the whole firman was read out. At that time I was surprised when the whole paragraph about the "jubas" of leaders was left out. I was present in singapore darbar and I am 100% sure that Hazar Imam had made light hearted comments about the jubas of the leaders. Similarly, when London firman was read, the entire comments made by the Imam about leaders not relaying information to the jamat from the Imam was omitted from the reading. Whilst I was still pondering over these discrepancies, the case involving Nagib and Alnaz came up, whose details are open to all. You are all aware of the happenings - the forged letters purported to be from the Imam, the announcement made in jamatkhanas worldwide, using Prince Amin's name in vain, the forged notarisations etc. I do not wish to go into the full details but behind all this travesty is one man: Dr S Sachedina who has broken all boundaries of trust!!! How can I or anyone else ever trust anything that is ever read out in the jamatkhanas again? What guarantee is there that a message from the Imam is actually from the Imam Himself? Truly, this is quite a horrifying situation. And yet, everybody is quiet or going on about sabar etc. Only Zeenatara, Kanize. Bloglow and a few others have been brave enough to speak out. The truth of the matter is that this leader has completely eroded the trust we have or had in communications made in jamatkhana which is a sacred place where our Imam sends guidance and blessings for us via taliqas, sandeshas and firmans. Now everything read in jamatkhana will be questionable. At least according to me who has seen what an errant leader can do. So short of receiving a video message or audio message from the Imam Himself, we cannot trust anything else that is read out in jamatkhanas. How can we accept this situation? First of all, Dr Sachedina has to go! The Imam, out of His infinite mercy asked Nagib and Alnaz not to pursue the forgeries but this does not mean they were not done. I join Zeenatara in her demand that he should go and pray to Hazar Imam to appoint leaders who will not cross the sacred lines of trust that we have built up over centuries and that can be eroded within seconds.

@Suleman re SS
On November 30th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Suleman Sachedina is not the only one, he has good company, a good few who are as bad or worse.

Since 1993 i have been seeking to raise awareness of the jamat to seek accountabilty and answerability after the Imam urged us to do so.

Not only ask SS MM and others, but pressure your local leaders, mukhis, other sevadaris in local areas to demand answers. Unfortunately these local leaders keep quiet or else they fear not being reappointed, and as such they betray the imam's trust.

Sorry state of affairs, but MSMS had said convert Ismailis into true Ismailis, thereby making a clear distention between true Ismailis as opposed to just Ismailis.

Ismailis are all over the globe, but how many true ismailis are remaining?

* Canada

@Alnaz re: above post of Nov. 30th (reply to Suleman)
On December 1st, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
What an interesting remark, brother Alnaz, in your last line, and what an enlightening farman of MSMS!
Just yesterday I was wondering about Pir Hasan Kabirdin (a.s.) who is to be "anantnaa taranhaar", I was wondering who would be the anant; who knows, maybe among them will be those Ismailis who are Ismaili just in name, because they happened to be born to Ismaili parents but they do not have any grounding in the faith?
The situation is so scarry...
On the other hand, I remember that musical play of a few years ago, Ibn-e-Yakzaan (I hope I am not mistaken in the name) where the audience is made to understand that esoteric matters, matters highly spiritual are not for the masses, but only for the few...Still, it is such a shame that we be born in this incredible faith and we be totally unaware of its worth...Like a thirsty person who is near a well but does not drink from it...
Mowla rakshaa kartaa rahè. Ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Suleman re: above post (Nov. 28th)
On November 30th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, the trust has been eroded. And the situation is appalling. And what saddens me is that hardly any member of the Jamat seems to be aware of the real fact (when they know about the suit) and almost no one dares speaking up and asking their leaders to put an end to this horrible matter...I sometimes wonder if such a situation ever existed in our history before?

I too used to worry, a few months ago, wondering how to trust the announcements made in Jamat Khanas now, because of these dreadful lies, how not to be misled. Now, I have the deep conviction that if we remain steadfast in our imaan, dua in Khane, and dasond, then no one will mislead us. "Koy apro vaar vaanko nè karè." Ameen, and Insh'Allah.

It was nice to read your post, Suleman, nice to see someone else on the same wave-length...:-) Thank you for it.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Kanize (reply)
On November 30th, 2010 Suleman (not verified) says:

Bravo Kanize! I salute your wisdom and your faith. Truly, when under the protection of Hazar Imam, no one can touch even a hair of our bodies. That is exactly why there is no need to fear and take a passive stance. Just like it is against the principles of humanity to turn away when you observe a passerby on the road getting mugged, just because you do not wish to get involved, similarly in this matter each person who has read the details of this case are liable to be questioned on the day of judgement as to why they decided to keep quiet and not stand up for what is right. So bravo to you Kanize, sister Zeenatara, brother Bloglow, and just a few others who voiced their protests.

@Suleman re: above post (Nov. 30th)
On December 1st, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you, Suleman!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@ Suleman Reg: trust
On November 28th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I think that what ever is happening now in courts of Canada are already the measures that will Inshallah set everything right.
Hazar Imam is aware of all this and hence via the medium of Alnaz and Nagib everything is being orchestrated. It is taking a process to set things that are going “not so right” for a long time but there is always a limit to everything and now is the time for a change and I think a major change!!

We just have to have patience and faith in Hazar Imam that He is for sure going to do the right thing. Dr S. Sachedina already got and will get some more opportunities to correct himself but if he will continue to ignore Mawla’s mercy then I do not know what will be his fate!

Nagib and Alnaz are set for generations of blessings according to my belief. And I am very sure of this belief! But the great things in life never come by easy.

* United States

@Alibhai Jiwani re: above post of Nov. 28th (@Suleman re: trust)
On November 30th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, Nagib and Alnaz have lived most trying, terrible months. And it is not over yet, alas. May Mowla continue to protect them. Ameen.

In addition to having patience I think that those members of the Jamat who are aware of the real facts in this suit and who have some grounding in religious knowledge, those members, no matter how few they are in number, should put pressure on their leaders so that they in turn request Mr. Sachedina to end this suit (since no Imam will sue a mureed whose bayyat He has accepted); our laxism is very wrong, I think, and it is because of this laxism that leaders cross the boundaries of the acceptable (knowing well we won't react) and get away with m....(forgive the expression) These leaders must understand that competence and answerability are expected of them, and it is the duty of the members of the jamat to remind them of this.
As Alnaz pointed it out earlier, rather than lamenting and talking about these things, we should voice our concerns to the leaders.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

The legal Issues & Facts !
On November 28th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Nazneen with legal expertise @ Vancouverite says …

.Bloglaw, I was not jumping to any wrong conclusions. You have been misled not me. The 25 minutes of guidance by our Imam (to all that were present) so far, we have heard the Defendant’s version. And we all know where their credibility lies.
Our Beloved Imam was supposed to answer the questions that were supposed to have been asked, He was not there to broadcast that He was the Plaintiff. It was clearly understood that He was the Plaintiff because He had to raise His right hand and affirm to say the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me God. I rest my case and Bloglaw go take a holiday. If you are really a Brit then take an active in the forthcoming Royal Wedding. Leave us alone!

Bloglaw RESPONSE

The legal issue on A findings of facts is whether Imam said on record that Imam filed the lawsuit and Imam is therefore legally the plaintiff. If not, the Judge on a findings of fact will have legal difficulty to rely on an implication that because Imam came, it is therefore understood or can be assumed he filed or authorised the filing of the lawsuit and so therefore he is the plaintiff. The judge will wonder and consider why did Imam not say so when the judge is considering a finding/ruling on facts. Then the judge has to also decide if the discovery on the record can be considered in giving the ruling. If so all representations from all parties will also be considered by the Judge.

Then the judge also has to consider all submissions and then further decide if there is an arguable case for trial or there is no case to answer. I agree with you 100% that we have so far not heard from the leaders in question or Mr Gray. I also agree 100% Imam does, will and did tell the truth and the whole truth. I do not agree with you that the Alnaz and Nagib are not telling the truth about directions given on 15 Oct 2010 to conciliate and settle by consent. See my earlier posts and analysis on this issue too. This is the best option and what was as directed by Imam.

I will certainly participate and enjoy the Royal wedding in UK. Did you know that Katie Middleton is also related to MHI. Another good reason (: n'est ce pas ?

* United Kingdom

@Bloglaw
On November 30th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Bloglaw although your assessment and reviews of the case is commendable, may I make a comment or two.

There are people who, for one reason or another, cannot "see" even though they look. The eyes look, but it is the mind that sees, and no matter what rays of light reflect into the eyes, mind can only see what it wants to see or expects,

This is is long way of saying it is useless of arguing with the eight or so who will not be able to "see" no matter what you do.

I urge you to stop debating with them, let them debate between themselves, don't waste your energies of such lost souls.

Spend your energies only in enlightening those who are interested by digesting the voluminous materials and explaining it plainly to the jamats at large.

* Canada

FAITH AND LOGIC – THERE IS NO CONFLICT ?
On November 28th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

News Editor - … What I see here is a failure of the combination of faith and logic. Sure, in a case where you have not proclaimed allegiance, you would be right to carry out certain legal moves. Where this is failing the defendants is the fact that they have wasted the court’s time by seeking and then fumbling the discovery. Nagib was granted the discovery on a number of points he made about flashes of light etc. But he seems to have come face-to-face with flashes of light! He said with his own mouth during discovery that he was confused and did not know what to do. So when he asked the court for discovery – was his intent to ask questions? Did he not give assurances that he had five questions? Did he ask them? Then, he comes out and makes counter claims. So the failure here is his. My point is that Nagib remains confused. I have two suggestions. To Nagib, I say fight this without the pretext of being an Ismaili. I say to the Aga Khan’s lawyer – fight Nagib as you would any adversary and not as an Ismaili.

RESPONSE BY BLOGLAW –

1 I have no doubt Mr Gray is fighting the lawsuit legally to the best of his and his firms abilities and resources. That they should and must do. I agree 100% with you on this.

2 Regarding discovery this was to use your expressions fumbled by Gray and Nagib. Alnaz was an attendee. To Mr Gray this was purely a legal confrontational discovery meeting. To Nagib this was purely to seek directions from his Imam which he has followed.

3 The defendants are following directions they believe were given by Imam and they have signed a consent order and submitted it. They have not made counter claims as the Editor of Vancouverite says..

4 Regarding discovery even if it is admitted at the hearing on 7th will not legally mean a judgment. Mr Gray should have asked the critical questions for Imam to respond. Why did Mr Gray not do so ? Nagib was seeking directions. Imam knew and chose to give directions and wishes off the record. There must be a good reasons for this

5 With respect I do not see a major conflict between faith and logic. One comes from the other. Imam has reminded us of our limitations and has guided us on intellect and faith. Imam reassures us that there is no conflict between our faith and Intellect. If you and many have this, then you should discuss this with ITREB. If there are many then this will be addressed institutionally.

I sincerely hope & pray that this case is settled by conciliation and agreement, before 7th December

* United Kingdom

Mr Shivji concludes wrongly.
On November 27th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Mr Shivji concludes wrongly. He forgets conveniently that Alnaz and Nagib have complied and signed the consent order as directed by MHI Mr Shivji says “…It appears the defendants have no intention to settle this court case amicably. Their original game plan is to humiliate the Ismaili Muslims Community, The Ismaili Muslims Institution, and make apparent to court that HH the Aga Khan is ethically further from the accuracy!..”

Editor of Vancouverite replies “ ..You (Mr Shivji) are justified in your conclusion that this is a calculated attempt at undermining the leadership of the Ismailis while at the same time appearing to be devoted adherents of the faith….”

Response by Bloglaw:

I see much speculation, a rich diversity of interpretations and jumping to the wrong conclusions by my 8 brothers and sister/s in the Vancouverite site : Editor, Zak, follower, Soulmate, Shivji. Nazneen, Panjebhai and Ali (:

It is not clear what Alnaz and Nagib are saying, nor what Mr Gray is saying. We need to read the submissions. ( I hope a summary will be uploaded).
However It seems clear legally that for the purposes of a settlement Alnaz/Tajdin agreed not to pursue allegations of fraud against the staff of MHI or that MHI did not file the lawsuit. So when Tajdin says he will not argue that Imam is not the plaintiff but he did not agree Imam filed the lawsuit. That is what he means. Mr Gray did not ask that question in the official record. Mr Gray also did not ask them to confirm this was an unconditional consent, and that the withdrawal of allegations is against all leaders who are volunteers and arguably not staff etc . Why Mr Gray did not do so is also surprising because he had no religious or emotive reasons not to ask and say what he wished. Imam was controlling the flow of the conversation. Mr Gray knows how important clarity of evidence and facts are necessary. He must have his reasons which do not seem obvious.

Alnaz and Nagib have said also that Imam did not at any time say that Imam is the Plaintiff and Imam filed the lawsuit and that Imam wrote the letters etc. On the other hand Imam came to the meeting and therefore Imam is the plaintiff and it can be argued that Imam did not need to say so.

If the discovery as it seems is not a part of the hearing on 7th December, then a summary judgment in favour of either party is not certain. Even though Nagib or Alnaz do not present arguments and rely purely on written representations because this was not what Imam directed them to do.

* United Kingdom

Imam attended because he is
On November 27th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Imam attended because he is legally named on the lawsuit as a Plaintiff and the court directed Imam to attend.

Mr Gray questioned the examiner Nagib. Nagib the examiner did not question the Imam. Imam gave directions off the record. Mr Gray did not ask Imam any questions for example are you the plaintiff or did you write to Nagib ? Gray did not start and say on the record or ask Nagib Tajdin if he was satisfied now that Imam is the plaintiff ? Gray did ask if discovery directions are satisfied ?

The Judge will look at the official record which also says Mr Gray asked Nagib to ask 5 questions and so the implication is that the Imam came prepared and was aware and prepared to respond ? Was Imam asked to respond ?

However in my view the above is not enough on its own legally to conclude that Imam filed the lawsuit and is legally speaking the plaintiff. Attendance at discovery on its own is not conclusive evidence.

Therefore I agree the decision on 7th December is not a foregone conclusion. Even if somehow the discovery record is admitted. Since this is in the Gray submissions the Judge will certainly know and Gray arguments will include discovery.

* United Arab Emirates

THE ZAHERI AND BATINI ROLE OF OUR IMAM
On November 26th, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

The immense pain of the jamaat about the Agakhan Lawsuit arises from the confusion about the unique position of our Imam.

As it has evolved after the death of the Prophet Mohamed (SAS), Shia religious belief accepts the Imamate as the manifest light of God and Mowla Ali as the 1st Imam. Ismailis hold Hazar Imam as the 49th direct descendent of Mowla Ali.

Ismaili Khoja’s also believe that in another age, God manifested as Vishnu Bhagwan and the line of the Ismaili Imamate is the 10th avatar of Vishnu, as predicted in the Hindu scriptures. It is this manifest form of God, the Batini Imam, that is the subject of our prayers day and night.

But we all know, Allah has created laws for the orderly functioning of the Universe and when in a Zaheri form, our Imam equally complies with the rules of nature. As Prince Karim Agakhan 1V, the Imam does not bring back the dead, change the past nor control the future. As we all know, Imams do fall sick and pass on (otherwise there would not be 49).

So when the Imam is called upon to administer the affairs of his followers, as his great-great grandfather, Aga Hassanali Shah did in 1846 when he came to the Indian subcontinent or as Hazar Imam has been doing in Central Asia since the fall of communism, He needs the assistance of sevadaris, employees and contracted professionals. And to ensure orderly governance, the Imam has set up a secretariat, appointed councils and also promulgated a written Constitution.

So when one of these sevadaris, employees and councillors make mistakes, cheats or get power-crazy, the Imam fully expects his leadership would use the mechanisms of the Constitution or Arbitration Boards to make the necessary corrections. Just as God’s rules of nature are not random, the Imam’s institutions for the jamaat are equally governed by a Constitution that provides consistency. Because of His strong convictions on this point, the Imam is well-known for his strong endorsement of a rules-based society for other members of the Ummah.

So it is time that Ismailis stop the confusion on the Zaheri and Batini roles of the Imam; the Imam does not perform miracles to build his hospitals and Ismaili Centres; He uses logic, expertise and professionals. In this dispute, there will be no “magic” cure from the Imam. He has given us the Constitution, the Arbitration Boards and the all the systemic infrastructure that we need to use to resolve this matter. As every informed Ismaili knows, it was the shameful failure of the leadership to use these mechanisms that compelled our Imam to submit to Federal Court of Canada orders to appear in person.

On one side, we have two sevadaris who stand accused of distributing Farmans improperly; on the other, we have several leaders who are accused of failing in their duty, then acting arrogantly and dishonestly.

Let’s use the Imam’s bestowed Constitution to get to the truth.

* Seychelles

@ Abdul : Zahiri and Batuni role of Mawla
On November 27th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Imam’s constitution in this case cannot have any role at this point since the case is in the federal court of Canada for so long. If the leaders had any intention to respect and honor constitution they should have not sued Nagib in the first place since there is no article of copy right in the current constitution.

Yes, agree Hazar Imam works in the Zahiri world within the laws defined by the society and courts, yet when the times come and needed he strongly exercises His Batuni powers and all of who are followers of batuni faith have experienced his batuni help in some form or the other at various times in our lives especially when there seems no other way out.

But after the calamity passes away we become comfortable so quickly that we conveniently forget his batuni help and start believing “I” did it. No matter what games Mr. Gray plays the outcome is going to be in favor of the defendants.Because Mawla is with them in the spirit! That is my guarantee!

Hazar Imam is cool and no intervening because he knows the outcome. Wouldn’t you be if you knew the result?

Also what I don't understand is this unique character of Avtars and Mawla who in every period create a massive confusion instead of giving black and white instructions and knowing these humans are so never going to work in unity!
He either enjoys those confusions or does not know to deal staight forward!!!! Because he has his winning trump card of divine intervention?????

* United States

Consitution has a role even
On November 28th, 2010 Pirani@ Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Constitution has a role even in this unprecedented & ongoing lawsuit. Parties could agree to withdraw by consent and conciliate internally. They could agree a stay to conciliate and then do so. This needs extraordinary will. There is an article in the constitution regarding copyright, arguably under all matters.

Mawla is with and for all Murids. I agree Mawla knowing an outcome means he has intervened. There is no black and white without any gray. This lawsuit is no exception. We may not understand Imam's vision and wishes immediately and in some cases in a lifetime. Being confused and uncertain is a part of life and of being different so that we can understand and learn from on another. Hence it is impossible to fully understand all attributes of the uniqueness of Imam (Avtars). For example take the Quran and the "final" message - There are many interpretations and need for continuity of guidance.

* United Arab Emirates

Islam did not start when the
On November 27th, 2010 Alibhai (not verified) says:

Islam did not start when the Quran was reveled. Islam started with the start of the worlds and Adam. So references you have made are all relevant. We need to be remined and many may not know or recall.

The age of miracles to prove and demonstrate stopped with the revelation of the final message. Imam knows, Imam Interprets and Imam guides us in the Zahiri and Batuni. Otherwise like Prophet Mohammed and Prophets before Him, and Imams after them (Peace be upon them all and SAW), they are human like the rest of us.

However there are miracles all around us every day. Many choose to see them and many don't. We have the power to choose but not to determine or know the outcome. Many think we know and that we are the controlling the outcome. This is not so. Imam has regularly and recently reminded us again of our human limitations, and the power of the Batuni, the spiritual. The power of Allah.

Thanks

* India

You could be in His constant physical presence yet far away from
On November 25th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Who are really close to Mawla? Following verse of ginan illustrates it. The attendance in JK is vital for our lives

Karanina hina Ali ghar bhula – Shah ghar bhula,
To Gurnarka meda tenkhe nahiji

Translation:

They who are impious, forget the abode of Mawla Ali,
To them the spiritual joy of being in Mawla’s presence is lost.

Commentary:

The Qur’an says: “These are the people who buy the life of this world at the price of the Hereafter…” (Holy Qur’an, 2:86)
The impious ones fail in their allegiance they have sworn to Imam-e-Zaman, only increasing in their impiety and wrong deeds. Blinded by the evil, they turn away from all the spiritual bounties and Mawla’s Grace which is ever present in the Jamatkhana. Thus they become the losers.( source:Simerg.com). I hope Alnaz and Nagib are not compromising on this vital necessity. You have nothing to worry

* United States

Reflecting on a post from 3 months ago gives more meaning today
On November 24th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Historically leadership has created obstructions for Momins
On August 24th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:
A true momin's faith will always undergo testings!

The following history is remarkable. When al-Mu’ayyad-din Shirazi ,an exceptional poet and ardent Momin of the Imam left Persia and went to Egypt with a burning desire to see Imam Caliph Mustansirbillah, he feared the intrigues of the ministers who did not permit any man of learning to see Imam personally unless he complied with their dictates and acknowledged their superiority. On reaching Egypt he experienced all that he had feared. He was lodged in a small house and his visits to the court were short and limited to prevent him from seeing the Imam.

Most of the Vaziers and their junior officers were jealous of al-Muy’ayyad for they all saw in him the real threat to their positions. Disappointed, he finally decided to leave Egypt and wrote about his frustrations to Tastari, who was one of the powerful people in the Fatimid State. Shirazi wrote: “I have not come to Egypt to seek wealth or gain any position. The promptings of my faith have brought me here. I have come to visit the Imam and not the Vaziers and their officials. infortunately, these people stop me from having a look at my Imam and now I am returning disappointed” The sudden death of Tastari gave al- Mu’ayyad another opportunity to renew his efforts to get some time to be in the holy presence of the Imam and with the help of one of the minister he was able to have the “Deedar” of the Imam, for the first time in his life. ” I was taken near the place where from I saw the bright light of the Prophethood.My eyes were dazzled by the light .I shed tears of joy and felt as if I was looking at the face of the prophet of Allah and of the commander of the faithful, Hazrat Ali. I prostrated myself before the one who is the fittest person to bow to. I wanted to say something but I was awe struck… I tried to speak but my tongue refused to move. People asked me to say what I wished to say. I could say nothing."

The Imam said: “Leave him. Let his fear and awe subside.” He was in Sajda for hours!! After several years, the Imam graciously granted him the position of the chief Dai (Hujjat or proof of Imam) of the Fatimid Caliphate. While Appointing to this prestigious position the 18th Imam himself wrote a Qasida, which praises Shirazi’s knowledge and unique competence and his ordeal to visit the Imam of the time.

The Imam wrote:
“O Hujja, who is famous among the people,
Our doors were not locked to you
Except due to a hurtful, disturbing cause:
Our shunning was the shunning of a concerned father
Our followers have lost their right guidance,
So spread among them what you will of our knowledge
And be for them the concerned parent.
Even though you are the last in our dawa you have surpassed the compass of earlier dais
The like of you cannot be found among those who have gone, from all the people nor those that remain”

Amazing! Ever heard of Imam writing a Qasida for a murid? This proves Imam’s love is much more for his true Momin than a momin’s love for Imam. Source for the above article: Life and lectures of Al Muaayyad fid din al Shirazi
late Javed Muscati, Ismailia association for Pakistan 1950,

Reply

@ Alibhai Jiwani
On August 29th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:
When Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi was given audience by the Imam Mustansir Billah the first time, he was transfixed for sometime as he experienced bright light of prophet hood and of Maula Ali. Although all others presents there did not experienced anything at all. This was nothing but ‘Noorani Deedar’ granted only to Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi by the Imam Himself.

A similar event took place during 8th Avatar, Lord Krishna, to Arjuna (one of the five Pandu brothers) at the battlefield. Here too, all others present in the battlefield saw nothing unusual. They just saw that Krishna was talking to Arjuna.
reply A true momin's faith will always undergo testings!

On August 29th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Alibhai Jiwani narrated an event related to Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi who has to suffer obstacles and hardships just after his arrival at Cairo and during his initial stay there at the hands of very senior leaders of Imam Mustansir Billah. There is no indication in the history that the Imam intervened or that he castigated his leaders for inhuman treatment of his future Hujja. Though later on, after a couple years or so, he was granted highest posts of Hujja as well as vizier of Fatimid caliphate; both these posts he held until his death in later part of 1078. Exactly similar hardships and obstacles were also experienced by Hasan-bin-Sabbah during his later part of the stay at Cairo. The event runs as follows:

Hasan-bin-Sabbah arrived in Cairo early in 1078 when Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi was vizier. Hasan-bin-Sabbah was well received by Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi and stayed there for 3 years and visited Imam Mustansir Billah at least once when it was revealed to him by the Imam himself that his successor would be Nizar. Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi died in later part of 1078, and all powerful Badr al Jamali succeeded him as vizier, who became jealous of Hasan-bin-Sabbah and banished him from Cairo. Imam did not intervene in this case as well.

We all know that later on this same wonderful Ismaili hero and missionary single handedly planned and succeeded in establishing Nizari Ismaili rule in northern Iran( at and around Almut)

We can not understand every action of Imams. Why? The simple reply is: we, human being are gifted with only limited intelligence( Aqle juzz). And only for this reason that most of the historians could not understand many decisions and actions of our Imams Al Hakim bi Amr Allah (16th Imam) and Rukn al Din Khurshah( 27th Imam) and hence heavily criticized those decisions and actions.

* United States

Imam says Learn from the past & seize the future!
On November 26th, 2010 Alibhai (not verified) says:

Hazar mam said the following a few days ago in Doha "...Great icons of the past must not be allowed to disappear, without an opportunity to come back to life and serve the future.

At the same time, in looking at the places we have met and the projects we have honoured, we also see enormous diversity. Diversity, in fact, is part of the essence of Islam.

The unity of the Ummah does not imply sameness. Working in an Islamic context need not confine us to constraining models.

Nor does respecting the past mean copying the past. Indeed, if we hold too fast to what is past, we run the risk of crushing that inheritance. The best way to honour the past is to seize the future "

* India

Reply to Kanize (Canada)
On November 23rd, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

Thank you dear Kanize for your response. You are so correct in your surmise about working in the zaheri presence of Imam. He is the sun, and if not careful one can get burnt very easily. But the dhongas seem to be immune. They do work hard, no doubt, they also work well and this is good. But they CANNOT and MUST NOT lose their adab. If they do then the honorable thing to do would be to bow out as penance. I have sent my letter to Dr Sachedina via email as well as courier. He may laugh it off, or crumple it and throw it into the waste bin but I have also placed the same request to Mowla Himself and I have the faith that He will listen.

Meanwhile, may the love for Him grow in our hearts. Today, during Eid-e-Gadhir celebrations, this beautiful verse of ginan was recited in jamatkhana which I wish to share with you:
"Ali Nabi ni Aal ne je kare pyar,
Te jivne ame sambhaar shu,
Jyare padashe kaljug kalikaar
Amaara pota na karine raakshu
Ane mahadan ma utaarshu paar"
(Those who show love for the Imam will be specially protected by Him against the world. He will keep them as His own and ensure their salvation)

Ya Ali Madad

@Zeenataara Allahrakhya re: above post (Nov. 23rd)
On November 23rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you, Zeenatara. Ameen to you dua. And thank you soooooo much for sharing this beautiful ginan verse, I have never read it nor do I remember ever hearing it...Shukhar Mowla.
If more members of the Jamat express their indignation to the leaders, Insh'Allah, these leaders will put pressure on M. Sachedina. And perhaps, in the future, they will feel more accountable. Inside a week, three persons, including you, have posted here their letter to the leaders, that's unbelievable! And perhaps, a few more (hamaarè jèsè :-) will have written too, but without posting their letter here...We, members of the jamat, must take an active part in the jamat and feel concerned by what is happening.
And it does not matter if M. Sachedina crumples your letter after reading it: you will have been heard and you will have expressed yourself, that is what matters... And above all, by posting it here, you will have inspired many. Again, thank you. Take care.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Kanzie Leaders are aware,
On November 21st, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Kanzie Leaders are aware, Imam is aware and thank you

I think whoever does what Imam wishes is doing the right thing. Nagib and Alnaz are doing what is right. The outcome of this lawsuit will be decided by MHI. Whatever and whenever is the outcome, It will be what is best. Imam knows what to do, when, and knows best.

I feel Alnaz and Nagib, as sevadars, have been given an unprecedented and unique seva of being the catalyst for change at a critical time in our history. However we must not expect change overnight. We should suggest but not decide. We should desire the change and not seek or desire change, only to suit our personal desires. (MSMS)

What is absolutely certain is that change for the better has begun, and that Imam has expressed his thoughts and wishes for all of us to support each other and look after the best interest of the Jamat.

A small but significant indication is the 25th Anniversary of the Ismaili centre London. Who were present and what happened. There was HH Prince Charles, the Crown Prince of the United Kingdom. There was Hazar Imam and about 250 “Ismaili ambassadors” including Ismaili Staff of the Ismaili centre London, Ismaili Volunteeers, Current & Earlier Mukhi Sahebans of Darkhana and other JK’s in UK.

Hazar Imam and H H Prince Charles decided to walk around individually and talk to everyone in small groups. Hazar Imam and Prince Charles did so for about one hour. Many had the privilege of having direct discussions and most had the opportunity to be within earshot of azar Imam and H H Prince Charles individually. There were no formal speeches. What is also wonderful and touching is that the event images were uploaded overnight and Mukhi Sahebans personally informed their Jamats in JK’s at the first opportunity. Guidance, wishes, and directions given by MHI were and are being shared by and amongst members of the Jamat in UK. I will not be surprised that the video will be shown to the Jamat around the world and or there will be a readout in JK’s soon.

This I believe is a significant change from the norm of who is invited, what happens in such a high profile and outreach events. In fact this is not what happened when Imam came a few months ago when all the top leaders were in London and Imam gave them his thoughts in a speech setting for 1 hour and asked them to share his thoughts with the Jamat

Back to the Lawsuit and serious gaps highlighted by Alnaz and Nagib. Since Imam knows, Leaders know, and we are certain Imam will do what is best. Alnaz & Nagib should feel privileged and happy if they have decided to leave the decision entirely to the court by simply amending their defense in accordance with directions given by Hazar Imam on 15th October (which includes the consent order signed by them) They will have followed Imam’s direction and wishes to the letter and spirit.

Nagib and Alnaz will also be comforted and certain in the knowledge that it is Imam who will decide what happens next and what happens next will happen internally and will include assurances given by MHI on 15 October 2010. I also feel certain that the end of the court case is not the end, but only the beginning of a new beginning. Another milestone.

* United Kingdom

@ Bloglaw
On November 22nd, 2010 Nick (Candad) (not verified) says:

"I also feel certain that the end of the court case is not the end, but only the beginning of a new beginning. Another milestone... Ameen......... Insha'allah with Mowla Bapas Blessings "Khusiyo ke Din Vapas Lottenge Humari Jamaatmein."

* Canada

Re: above post of Nov. 21st by Bloglaw
On November 21st, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Oh la la, Bloglaw, your last line has given me goose bumps! Ameen, summa ameen. Insh'Allah. Thank you so much for sharing with us the details of Hazer Imam's visit to the London Centre. You "sound" so much at peace, and serene, Bloglaw. Thank you for reassuring us about the near future. Mowla bhalo karè, Bloglaw.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@ Bloglaw Thanks. We need to
On November 22nd, 2010 Hassan (not verified) says:

@ Bloglaw Thanks. We need to feel and show love, respect and kindness for each other and amongst ourselves. We also need to communicate amongst ourselves with love respect and kindness at all times. I feel very sad to say that this is not the case and I hope this is work in progress.

* India

@bloglaw
On November 21st, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

I agree.
Excellent reflections by bloglaw

* United States

To Exercise patience and trust in Mawla. He will do the best .
On November 21st, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Exercise patience and trust in Mawla

Vazir Dr Sachedina is appointed by MHI, we have no right to ask for his resignation, according to me. Hazar Imam in zahir world never fires any one. He is Allah’s Noor; he is all knowing, He always exercises extreme patience in matters like this. (Ref: ISMS first firman in Kalame Imame mubin, vol 1) The very fact that SS has got an opportunity to serve MHI so closely he must have accumulated some very good deeds and Ibadat in the past this life or previous that he has been rewarded by Imam with such a great opportunity.

He will continue to reap the benefits until his quota is replenished or his misdeeds piles up enough to deprive him of this extremely fortunate position. (But he will be given plenty of opportunities to correct himself)

"In Islam the Faithful believe in Divine justice and are convinced that the solution of the great problem of predestination and free will is to be found in the compromise that God knows what man is going to do, but that man is free to do it or not. Wars are condemned. Peace ought to be universal. Islam means peace, God's peace with man and the peace of men one to another. ." [Memoirs] -- Aga Khan III

Mawla has a way of managing everything in Batin and he knows it better than all of us. He sometimes lets the person do what he chooses all the way and then comes the reward or punishment whatever he deserves! We are not able to perceive what is good for us but he has knowledge of everything so He will do what is in the best interest of everyone.
In a silent way! Big way! More just than you can ever imagine! No one escapes any karma bad or good! The bondages of karma are very complex.

If you do one little good deed He absolutely notices and if you do one little bad He absolutely notices it. For one good deed he rewards you with 100 good blessings but one bad deed he gives you only one punishment because he is most merciful and beneficent.(Ref Quran)

So just like MHI we all have to have sabar and exercise good will and good gesture and behave with complete faith. It is MHI’s prerogative that he chooses SS as his top leader. When he keeps and when he does not. There is no democracy in religion. Ours is a love and faith based “Batuni” religion. Trust Him, he will do the right thing for everyone. There is a reason why case is going forward. MHI can end it in a fraction of a second if he so desires.
.

* United States

Response to Alibhai Jiwani (USA)
On November 22nd, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

Hats off to your deep knowledge and staunch faith. Every word you write is true. But what you have not accounted for is love

When it comes to love, it becomes absolutely impossible to stand by and keep sabar and faith when your loved one is being insulted so openly and especially when the loved one is your Mawla. I have stated in the first sentence that Mowla has infinite patience and perseverance and is all-merciful. But for me, a mere human being, who is blinded to everything else but love, I cannot take it when somebody who has been granted such a privilege by Mowla Himself behaves inappropriately with that very same Mowla in front of my eyes. In such a case, keeping quiet would be a shame, a let-down for love.

Ask yourself: your wife whom you love dearly is treated so shabbily in your presence. She may not mind, she may forgive but you will certainly mind. Why? Because you love her.

Have you read the Ramayana? if you have then you will know how Bharat reacted towards his own mother when she banished his beloved Ram to exile. Ram forgave Kaikai but Bharat vowed to never look at her face again. That is love. You will also know how Lakshman used to react when his beloved Ram was affronted by anybody, and spoken to inappropriately. That is love. Throughout, Ram maintained Himself as the epitome of patience, perseverance and forgiveness. But those who loved Him could not tolerate, even in those eras.

So I agree that Dr Sachedina has been appointed by the Imam Himself due to his past good deeds or whatever but I CANNOT agree when he just behaves with the Imam anyhow, and nobody else should either. I am even beseeching the Imam Himself that it is painful for me to hear and see all this. Please, please remove him. Do not let him continue talking to You and behaving with You in this manner, Ameen.

I hope my position has now been better understood.

@Zeenataara Allahrakhya (Nov. 22nd)
On November 22nd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Yes, Zeenat, your position totally, totally makes sense from the point of view of love. Thank you for clarifying it the way you have above. Yes, Bharat's actions were strictly based on love, even his accepting to let Sri Raam go into exile...And he himself lived as a hermit for 14 years...Because he loved Him. Indeed, it really hurts to read the transcript of all those cross-examinations and the description of the behavior of the leaders on Oct. 15, and what you described in your letter ...Appalling. Truly appalling. I really admire your courage in writing to M. Sachedina. Did you mail the letter or is it an e-mail you sent?

But, what saddens me, Zeenataara, is that, the next person that will replace him, if he is not able to remain steadfast in his attendance of Jamat Khana and other religious duties, he too will gradually be misled (and will mislead others), as zahèri closeness to Mowla Bapa can be very dangerous...I would never want to work in the zahèri presence of Mowla Bapa in case I lose sight of proper adab...

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

The case is going to continue .... beyond year 2010
On November 21st, 2010 Sadrudin (not verified) says:

YAM.
Inshallah, the court will not issue summary judgement instead court will order the trial.The reason for this is simple, the plaintiff's attorney has not show what harm he can incur nor he has requested any kind of the stay order. The review of the current discovery is not sufficient to deduce one way or another. As soon as, that occur, the plaintiff will end up negotiating the consent judgement in good faith.

So be patience. Imam is the truth and truth follows him so it bound to happen consent judgement.

* United States

Open Letter to Shafique Sachedina - RE: Bow Out
On November 20th, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

Dear Dr. Shafique Sachedina,

Our dearest Imam, Khudavind Hazar Imam, has infinite patience and perseverance (sabar).
But we murids who love Him with all our hearts and souls, cannot, for even a moment, accept the manner in which you behave in the presence in Khudavind.

I have had the opportunity to see with my own eyes how you try to manipulate and order the Imam around. In the Golden Jubilee darbar of Chicago, Imam wanted to spend more time with the murids who were ill and bedridden, placed near the entrance of the darbar. You literally nudged the Imam to proceed out of the darbar and I felt that this was indeed very inappropriate behaviour on your part. It does not matter how much freedom the Imam has given you but in His presence you MUST behave with decorum.

Similarly, at the hotel in Lisbon, once again, I saw you try your best to physically manoeuvre the Imam to go upstairs to the banquet via the route chosen by yourself whereas it was obvious to all the Imam wished to proceed upstairs via a different route i.e. through the coffee shop. On Imam's return from the banquet, you again tried to make Him avoid going through the coffee shop (where a few members of the jamat were present) but this time you did not succeed and the Imam came straight through the coffee shop, greeting and waving at the jamat.

Why do you act like this? Do you think you are superior to the Imam? Do you think the Imam does not know what He is doing? Truly, this is an outrageous abuse of the opportunity you have been granted to serve the Imam.

And now, in this case versus Nagib and Alnaz, it has become very clear indeed that you have very little regard, respect and reverence for our Imam. Statements such as "He thinks in French but speaks in English" are insulting to the extreme!! It is obvious that you treat the Imam as a human being, a senile human being. Even so, He is your boss and how can you behave like this in His presence?! I do not doubt Nagib's and Alnaz's testimonies at all because of my above-stated experiences.

We CANNOT have and accept leaders like yourself who treat our beloved Imam, the master of our souls, our whole and soul, so shabbily. In fact, the next time I see you I will confront you. But I wish for there to be no next time. I demand your resignation, if you have any ounce of shame left you should immediately bow out. I urge all my brothers and sisters who love the Imam to support me and to stand up for our Imam and with one voice and ask for this belligerent man to resign!!

Yours indignantly,
Zeenat Allahrakhya

@Zeenataara Allahrakhya (Nov. 20th) (letter to Sachedina)
On November 22nd, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
You are very brave, sister Zeenatara, to thus write to the leader. May Mowla protect you from any retaliation. Ameen.

Yes, indeed, all those who understand who the Imam truly is (and I think this lawsuit has shown us that there only a few members of the Jamat who do understand His true nature) find the behaviour of most leaders totally unbearable and unacceptable. And it is because these leaders don't understand Him that they behave in this way... It is so frustrating and so distressing. I have felt very helpless.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Zeenat Allahrakhya
On November 22nd, 2010 Nick (not verified) says:

Zeenat Bahen, YAM
Imam the Master of our souls knows everything, But sometime people like SS reaps the benefit of their Past karmas and the service by their forefathers to the House of Imams, But Jab Aham aur Guroor ka Maati Ka Haanda(Ghada) Bhar Jaayenga tub Inshal'allh woh khud hi toot jayenga phir patta bhi nahin chalenga ki kaun they aise Leaders jo Imam ko Murido sein dur rakhate they, Bijli Ghirengi Jaroor per kab!!! woh Humara Pyaara Mowla hi jaanta hai behtar.

* Canada

@ Bloglaw
On November 20th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ya Aly madad, Bloglaw! In case you have missed that post, Moez Natho has posted a letter in French (followed by the Google English translation kindly provided by one of the readers whose name I can't recall) and in its conclusion he is asking you to send it to all the leaders. (Nov. 19 or 20 th I think).
I hope I am making sense, it is getting late...:-)
Ya Aly madad, Bloglaw. Do take care.

* Canada

“Netiquette.”
On November 20th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, LIBRARIAN-UMED! I am always on my guard on etiquette and I do my level best to go with the tides of civility but in communication sometime it becomes very imperative to use the capital letters. Therefore, when I am using the capital letters I am not yelling at anyone nor I am against the propriety of “Netiquette.” Consequently, good manners will always be the vanguard in my communication! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

The one root cause !
On November 20th, 2010 @Pirani (not verified) says:

Mr Shivjee what do you think is The one Root cause of the lawsuit and issues which Maybe a tip of the iceberg? I think it is because the constitution was not followed. And the solution is to ensure that the constitution is followed. The critical question – Has there been a real change in the top 20 leadership (the decision makers)in the last 20 years ?

* United Arab Emirates

"Let us move forward"
On November 22nd, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. PIRANI! Whatever has happened in past is now times gone by issues and one cannot foretell the future! Whatever the unfairness or impediment one has experienced should not become the sacrament in our daily life. I am not an academic but I will say this to close this disagreement that things do not just happen! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

What to expect of our Leaders?
On November 19th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

If they have galls to act in defiance of the Imam in His face, why would they act in a dignified manner behind the Imam's back? Why, indeed? I was introduced to the Ithmadi of Uk in Scarborough JK last weekend, someone who knew me and him brought him to me and introduced us. That hard working Ithmadi was not interested at all when I told him how the other leaders misbehaved in the Imam's presence, and was not interested in knowing at all what happened at the mulakat with the Imam, and simply walked away saying, sabar karo......

When the remaining leaders are not interested in the background noise and not concerned at all of what and how the "bad apples" spoil the basket, and continue blindly their hard work to serve the jamats, does their hard work save the jamats? or themselves? History is telling ..... WHOLE segments of the jamats were discarded by the Imams (and this has happened over and over). When I read historical events, I often used to wonder why whole segment(s) discarded?

History is repeating itself. Mawlana Ali, when fighting the battle at Siffin, had his own army refuse to follow his command in His face.... In due course, His great great grand child simply discarded the whole segment of the jamat, sent them to be murids of Muza Kazim, who progeny ultimately became childless after a few generations leaving these murids without a murshid. MHI said (I have given the citation in my defence), that they (who don't abide by my farmans) may remain part of the muslim ummah, but lose the right to be part of the jamath. Telling comments by a living Imam.

* Canada

@Alnaz re: above post of Nov. 19th
On November 23rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Dear Alnaz,
Please accept my heartfelt apologies for my reply of Nov. 20th to your above post of Nov. 19th: after I read the post of Zeenatara Allahrakhya of Nov. 22nd, in which she was explaining that her letter to M. Sachedina came from her love for Mowla, I understood that the words (Sabar karo) of that Itmadi from U.K. and his seeming lack of interest when you were trying to tell him about the poor behaviour of the leaders hurt you because of that same love. Please forgive me, I should have kept quiet instead of responding to your post. I hope you can forgive me.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Kanize's apologies
On November 24th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Dear Kanize:

I was not hurt at all by your comments and you do not need to apologize at all. I welcome comments either correcting my errors or providing a different view of the situation. It is far better to be corrected if needed or to be directed to a different view, which enables us to continue to grow and mature.

* Canada

@Alnaz re: above post of Nov. 19th
On November 20th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
If I may, I would like to point out two things. No offense meant!
The first one is that I don't think any Imam needs to "discard" or has "discarded" any segments of the jamat: it is the members of the Jamat themselves who sever the bond with the Imam and they themselves leave the right path, and the cause of their going astray is probably weakness in dasond.

The second one is that, through previous posts on this page the readers have been made aware of the way the leaders behaved with Mowla Bapa on the 15th of Oct., and that information was most useful. Now that that information has been shared, perhaps we ought to remember Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah's farman, "Tamè kharaab nè kharaab na kyo." And He said something to the effect of, "tamè koyno kanoon na karo, Amaara upar mukidiyo." I do realize how hurt you have been (and many of us too since we all care), but perhaps now we should just try to act as this farman tells us to act. I am sure Mowla Bapa will help you and Nagib.

Please, if my words have hurt you, Alnaz, I sincerely ask you to forgive me. I do not wish to offend you or hurt you in any way.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

You could have misunderstood the gesture of this UK Ithmadi?
On November 20th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. ALNAZ! Could it be possible that you could have misunderstood the gesture of this UK Ithmadi? You have to appreciate that those people who have resided in UK most of their lives have a tendency to be rehabilitated into a snobbish kind of reservation! Hazar Imam is all knowing and He understands that some of appointed leaders are deficient in gesticulation. However He said in one of His Farman in India that nobody is perfect with exception of Allah! Any Seva performed with selflessness, diligence, without any remuneration, and reward is the best way to get personal satisfaction! Any religion which is practiced with good intention is the ultimate way of salvation! If I was in your place I would not worry about these snooty! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

The reason why a Leader did
On November 19th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

The reason why a Leader did not talk to you in a JK or Jamati setting is a combination of uncertainty and fear of any impact on him or his family. This is understandable in the present institutional realities and mindset. change takes time and this is unprecedented. We must not blame but try to understand Each other, and work harder and make more effort for the benefit of the Jamat and for our Imam. What is most important is that leaders are aware and informed in every way possible. What Itmadi or leaders should have done is to listen, understand, and then pass the information in this case with his thoughts direct to MM and DR SS, who should welcome this input and thank him.

* United Arab Emirates

Leader's actions!
On November 20th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

They don't even bother to listen because they accept the likes of SS and MM as Mungu Ndogo (little god), and the likes of us as shaitaans.

Most people don't read history but the SS during the time of our beloved prophet was Abu Bakr who was a rich tycoon and served the prophet and islam a lot, spend a lot of time beside the prophet. However, despite his seva he was kept out of the sat panth.

Bring mukhi, SS, MM, etc does not mean he is she is accepted into sat panth, MSMS often spoke about TRUE Ismailis (eg. Chandraat Farman is for 'all true Ismailis), MHI always directs his farmans to his 'beloved' spiritual children.

The question each of us has to ask, am I beloved to him? There are farmans and ginans that tell us what are the criterias for becoming 'beloved'.

* Canada

Not to judge but... it is good to do some reality check
On November 19th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I have seen quite a few leaders some mukhis , some presidents, suffering from illnesses that make them mohtaz for years together in a pitiable condition , I shiver with the thought why? The bonds of Karma (deeds) are not easy to understand.

The very same people who were moving in society like no one else is as" blessed" as them ,suffering and sent to the bottom of human existence and dignity makes you shudder with fear is that worth going for all that name and fame and not recognising the "essence" all that worth?

Some how Ibadat Bandagi is not given enough importance any more by us and under the umbrella of perceived"seva" or "Khidmat" the bliss and blessing of Imamat is not experienced and understood even by the persons working so close to Mawla.

Plenty of "volunteer recognition functions" and puffing up the egos of all who wear uniforms or sit on pats and councils and do seva without even understanding or reflecting whether some of us indeed are doing "service" or "disservice" to jamat and our Mawla ? This reflection must be an important requirement of the "seva"

How many jamati members who may be the "real momins of Mawla" my be silently suffering because of the injustice done by senior leaders of the jamat who forget the batuni presence of Mawla? They keep treading the same path as their predecessors making the system more and more unjust.

As it is Mawla does not make it easy to understand his "avtar" and achieve "His true recognition" ,but when the Ibadat and true essence of our very tenent faith are forgotten or not given due importance even by the very Institutions who are suppose to teach and role-model I am not sure if we will be worthy of Mawla's continuing mercy , overlooking our misdoings and mis appropriation? And for how long?

"He cannot be achieved by anything else except his "Ibadat"

Seva x ibadat =benifit or sawab
if there is no ibadat however much seva is put in
the equation will be
100 seva x 0 ibadat = 0
This is the fundamental teaching of Ismailism.

One Tarika board chairperson holding the post for eternity was and is barely even seen in jamatkhana. Is it a blessing or curse? Was Ibadat completely ignored? I dont know. When will we strive to achieve the true understanding of""Imam and Imamat"? One of the proposed important GJ initiative did it even got initiated?

Just because He lives amongst us , eats with us, wears clothes like us and drives car like us does not mean He is same like us and we behave with him like an ordinary man! Mawla is the truth. And the truth is Mawla. But His true understanding can only be achieved when we infuse our lives with his Ibadat and rememberance and Zikar
There is no other way. When the truth will be in front of our eyes there will be no time to correct our mistakes!
(As per ginans and farmans)

* United States

@Alibhai Jiwani re: above post of Nov. 19th
On November 20th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
One of the problems is the lack of proper religious education (i.e. that really teaches the concept of Imamat) because the parents fail to instill in their children from their very earliest age love for the Mowla and the understanding of who He really is, either because they themselves don't have that love and that knowledge or because they count on the Bait ul-ilm to do this teaching, but the Bait ul-ilm doesn't seem to touch on the subject...And anyways, no BUI can ever replace parents where the upbringing in the faith is concerned...If the members of the Jamat were better educated in and aware of the faith, things would not be so bad, and I am sure this lawsuit would never have gone so far as the jamat would have put pressure on their leaders to stop it...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Imam reminds us regularly of
On November 20th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Imam reminds us regularly of having the right balance Between din and dunya. Ibadat means acts worship or the performance of religious duties and obligations. seva is for us an integral part of our religious duties and our bayat. In Islam religion is a way of life including the spiritual and the material. Both are necessary and too much of any of the two is not good for us. What we all need to do individually is to have the right balance. Today we all need to do everything we can to reverse the growing gaps in the jamat between excessive material greed - Dunya, and our spiritual -Din- ethics and values which needs to drove and guide us in out daily lives

* United Arab Emirates

Argument left for Summery Judgement argument.
On November 19th, 2010 Dilawar H Momin (not verified) says:

“Both Mr. Jiwa and Mr. Tajdin have formally confirmed, on the record, that they will not argue at the summary judgment motion that His Highness Prince Karim Aga Khan is not authorizing this action.”

* United States

This mean they will not
On November 19th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

This mean they will not argue to save time, it does not mean they are saying that Hazar Imam is plaintiff. Of course he is not. Unless you think that knowing that Alnaz has not published any Farmans he has accused the wrong person [Tauba!]

Faith Based Principle
On November 19th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

One of my acquaintances asked me why Nagib and Al Naz were not flexible enough to sign the consent agreement when they had disagreement over only one clause of infringement of copy rights.
I responded: “Al Naz has nothing to do with this case, as HI Himself made it clear when Nagib told Him about non involvement of Al Naz. As far as Nagib is concerned, he had presented a Mehmani to HI through Alibhai, and He blessed his work and permitted him to continue with the work of printing Farmans. So till printing of this Golden edition, Nagib has acted according to guidance given to him in Mehamani. This too HI admitted during discovery meeting. So till printing of this Golden edition book, Nagib acted according to guidance given to him in Mehmani. In simple words, if he agrees to infringement condition, he breaches the sanctity of Mehamani and Nafarmani to which he will be the last person to do it.” To this he interrupted,” what if they lose the case?” I replied, they were faithful to their Lord and under His protection; the end result does not bother them much. How can anyone compromise on faith based principle?

“Whoever acts according to my guidance to please me and totally surrenders to me, O Arjun, I take him under my protection and save him from evil forces and calamities.“ (Gita)

Re: Kasamali's post (Faith Based Principle)
On November 20th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, how could they sign such a document when Hazer Imam Himself said on the 15 of Oct. that all those who had a copy of the book could keep it??? Obviously, there is no infringement in His eyes. Ah, but the leaders and their lawyer can think otherwise...If only Mr. Sachedina had cooperated in the publishing of it, and if only Mr. Bhaloo had forwarded the farman to him in 1998 as he had been asked to rather than keeping them with him until now, as he himself admitted at the cross-examination!
"Wa man aufaa bimaa aahada alaihullahu fasayutihi ajran azeemaa." Insh'Allah, it will be so with Nagib. We just need to continue to pray for mushkil aassaan and subudhi.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@ Kasamali re: above post (Nov. 19)
On November 20th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for this post, brother Kasamali: those who do not have the time to read all the official documents and motions can understand much from your clear and succinct summary...Indeed, "Jènè Raam raakhè, tènè koy na chakhè."
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Kasamali ref : Gita
On November 20th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

How very comforting to the true believers . Your quote from Gita. If you read Bhagvat Gita it feels you are reading Shah Karim's farmans . You just have to be able to context it and conceptualise it to present times.

* United States

Our Frontline Leaders
On November 19th, 2010 An ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

The discovery meeting clearly showed us as to how our leaders behave with HI. The two frontline leaders SS and MM instead of helping maintain amicable environment in the meeting, they vitiated it.
HI clearly expressed His wishes as how to proceed for the solution, but these two leaders of our, instead of saying ‘ Amen’, not only tried to give their unsolicited advices/suggestions to HI but also even argued with Him.
Didn’t He clearly indicated as to How hw intends to tackle the case issue? Even He turned down their unsolicited interfered advices. These leaders, along with Gray, want to inflict maximum damage to the defendants. The reason: egoism and vengeance over powered their wisdom.

Leaders must act with absolute integrity, diligence and devotio
On November 18th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

The open letter to Dr SS & MM has been sent to them, and to other leaders. In accordance with their oath of office, all leaders have promised to act with “absolute” integrity, diligence, honesty and devotion. Therefore leaders have committed to raise and proactively discuss amongst themselves the issues and solutions. Then If necessary, to jointly or individually seek guidance from MHI.
In some of the Constitutions distributed nationally is printed the oath of office which Leaders have pledged and signed ;
Bismi-Llahi-R-Rahmani-R-Rahim - I............................do hereby solemnly and sincerely reiterate my absolute faith in, and Spiritual allegiance and devotion to Mawlana Hazar Imam, Shah Karim Al Hussaini, His Highness, Prince Aga Khan.
Further, I make solemn oath in the name of Allah and say
1. That I shall protect and defend the Ismaili constitution and the rules and regulations made thereunder;
2. that I shall perform with absolute honesty , integrity, devotion and diligence and to the best of my ability, all the duties and obligations entrusted to be; and
3. that I shall not disclose any confidential matters or proceedings pertaining to my office.
Dated and signed

In light of the above promise and oath, I sincerely hope and pray leaders will do their very best to d what is right and what is in the best interests of the Jamat as directed by Mawlana Hazar Imam. Ameen.

* Germany

@ Bloglaw re: above post of November 18th
On November 20th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you so much for posting this oath of office, Bloglaw. To think that the leaders can forget so much of what they pledged...It is so sad, ya Mowla, so sad...They should be regularly reminded by their friends and family members to review this oath...
Man, am I ever glad I am not a leader! I would not want to be corrupted by a position that yields power... I feel sorry for them.
Ya Aly madad.

PS I trust you will inform us of the reply to your letter, if a reply there is, Bloglaw.

* Canada

Leaders responsability
On November 19th, 2010 mohez nato (not verified) says:

Appel aux Responsables Institutionnels et Leaders du LIF

Cet appel n’a pas un caractère ou une critique vindicative ! Cette missive se fonde sur le principe de fraternité, sur le pardon et une prise de conscience que nous sommes tous des frères et sœurs et nous sommes les enfants spirituels de Mowlana Hazar Imam !

C’est aussi le cri de cœur d’un simple ismaili, âgé de 65 ans, riche d’une vie intellectuelle bien remplie et fier de vivre sa Foi selon l’Ethique et les Farmans de son Guide Spirituel, l’ Imam du Temps Présent!

Ce qui m’amène à vous écrire, c’est une forme de tristesse, cette douleur qui est trop lourde à vivre, liée à cette poursuite et ce conflit provoqués par ce « lawsuit », indigne de notre idéal communautaire !
Il est urgent que vous arrêtiez ce conflit, cette violence, cette « hémorragie morale », qui nous décourage tous, une forme de souffrance insupportable !

Malgré l’intervention, les directives très claires, très « inspirées », en date du 15 Octobre de notre Vénéré Hazar Imam, ce conflit judiciaire prend encore des proportions indignes via les médias et l’internet !
C’est inadmissible, c’est incompréhensible ! C’est inacceptable ! Votre silence est étourdissant !

Mes frères et sœurs, leaders et top leaders, membres des Institutions mises en place par Mowlana Hazar Imam, prenez vos responsabilités ! Vous devez réaliser que cette souffrance est présente en chacun de nous , il vous faut la comprendre, l'accepter ainsi, la regarder en face et utiliser votre position de leader pour se dépasser et agir dans une dynamique qui soit le changement que nous voulons voir dans le Jamat pluraliste , diversifié, méritocratique.
Et que les « verrous », les « tracasseries bureaucratiques », « l’esprit de clans » cessent pour un bon fonctionnement de nos Institutions !

Avec vos appuis, vos conseils, vos échanges avec les uns et les autres, en cherchant à vous appuyer sur des expériences qui marchent dans certains jamats, à s’inspirer de cette forme de dynamique « Leaders- MukhiSahebs-Jamat-Volontaires », qui doit réunir, rechercher la complémentarité, l'unité, et qui doit dépasser toute stigmatisation et les jugements avec des « a priori ».

Vous devez être les acteurs « inspirés », bien perçus par tous les segments du Jamat, avec un esprit rassembleur et voulant jouer collectif, capables d’oublier votre ego et sachant dépasser les clivages et surtout soucieux de partager et d’honorer les Directives et les Hidayaths de Mowlana Hazar Imam ! Depuis les différents Darbars du Golden Jubilee, cette feuille de route est claire, bien tracée !

Nous sommes tous responsables car nous sommes tous interpellés par ces Directives de Mowla Bapa ! Alors, ne perdons pas notre temps pour des conflits inutiles, étalés sur la place publique judiciaire ! Travaillons ensemble, vous devez insuffler cette dynamique ! Mowla Bapa n’a-t-il pas dit qu’Il est très ambitieux pour nous ! Il est urgent d’en prendre conscience, nous accepter les uns et les autres, d'utiliser toutes les compétences pour tenter de nous élever à un niveau de conscience supérieur ! Cette acceptation de notre diversité et du pluralisme au sein du Jamat est la clé du succès !
C’est par le dépassement humble de votre condition de Leaders, ouverts, inspirés, loyaux , généreux et charismatique que nous arriverons à résoudre les problèmes avec nos jeunes générations, préserver la dignité des seniors, s’attaquer aux problèmes de la grande pauvreté dans notre Jamat !

Il n y a rien de dramatique non plus dans la reconnaissance de nos propres faiblesses et conflits intérieurs ! Il n’y a que « Allah qui est parfait » !
Avec la Grâce de Mowla Bapa, Sa Miséricorde, Son Exemple, le vent de l'espoir du changement doit être là ! S’il vous plaît, prenez vos Responsabilités et toutes nos prières, notre pardon et notre considération vous sont acquis !

Ayons tous l'humilité de reconnaitre notre propre responsabilité dans chaque problème ou conflit. Mais admettez que ce « lawsuit » est inutile, il faut vite clore cet affreux chapitre ! C’est un échec pour nous tous et comme il faut toujours tirer une leçon d’une déconvenue, c’est peut être le début d’une prise de conscience de votre propre responsabilité et la condition d'un vrai changement de vision et de comportement que Mowla Bapa attend de nous tous !

Ne plus juger mais agir, ne pas condamner l'autre mais reconnaitre et accepter d'abord ses propres limites. Chercher systématiquement la complémentarité et encourager le changement harmonieux pour la réussite des objectifs et la Vision de Mowla Bapa pour Ses Disciples et les partager avec les autres membres de la société où nous vivons !

Il nous faut bannir de nos pensées la suspicion, et accorder plus de liberté et donner plus de chance au changement collectif. C'est se faire confiance collectivement, croire vraiment au changement et l'encourager chez soi et chez les autres ! Mowlana Hazar Imam n’a-t-il pas dit qu’Il est toujours avec nous !

En donnant votre point de vue, en vous engageant selon votre âme et conscience dans ce débat et définitivement clore ce »lawsuit », sachez que vous allez rehausser votre statut de « leaders » et que vous allez démontrer un réel changement dans votre comportement, sans doute le fruit d’une profonde réflexion, d’une quête pourquoi pas intellectuelle et spirituelle qui aboutit à cette forme de maturité ou mutation intérieure et individuelle.

Avec toute ma considération, mon estime et mes respects très fraternels et mes sincères Ya ali Madat !
Que Mowla nous garde tous sur la voie droite du Sirata-Mustaquim !

Mohez nato
Ps j’autorise Les Internautes de traduire en anglais et à Bloglaw de transmettre aux Leaders ma missive. Merci d’avance.

* France

@Mohez Nato (re: above letter of Nov. 19)
On December 1st, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Le LIF a sans doute déjà reçu votre lettre (le courrier arrive plus vite au Royaume-Uni qu'en Europe) et le Conseil de France est sur le point de la recevoir, Insh'Allah. Reste à savoir maintenant si les dirigeants prendront la peine de la lire !
Mais au moins, nous, nous aurons rempli notre devoir ! Shukhar Mowla !
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Mohez Nato (re: above letter of Nov. 19)
On November 23rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Félicitations ! Je suis bien contente que vous ayez pris votre courage à deux mains et que vous ayez rédigé cette lettre aux dirigeants ! Après vous, quelqu'un d'autre aussi a fait de même sur cette page! Ça va faire boule de neige, Insh'Allah ! Qui sait, d'autres ont sans doute écrit ce qu'ils pensaient sans l'afficher ici ! Plus les membres du Jamat vont s'impliquer et s'exprimer franchement avec leurs dirigeants, plus ça va faire bouger les choses ! C'est notre laxisme qui leur permet de dépasser les bornes.
Merci ! Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

French comment By Nato( English translation by google)
On November 19th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

French to English translation
Leaders responsability
On November 19th, 2010 mohez nato (not verified) says:
Call for Institutional Managers and Leaders of LIF

This call was not a vindictive nature or criticism! This letter is based on the principle of brotherhood, forgiveness and the realization that we are all brothers and sisters and we are the spiritual children of Mowlana Hazar Imam!

It is also the cry of the heart of a simple Ismaili, aged 65, with a rich intellectual life busy and proud to live according to His Faith and Ethics Farmans his Spiritual Guide, the Imam of Time Present!

Which brings me to write is a form of sadness, pain that is too heavy to live, connected with this lawsuit and the conflict caused by this "lawsuit" and unworthy of our great community!
It is imperative that you stop this war, this violence, this "moral hemorrhage, which discourages us all, a form of suffering unbearable!

Despite the intervention, the guidelines very clear, very "inspired", dated October 15 of our venerable Hazar Imam, the legal conflict is still unworthy of proportion through the media and the internet!
This is unacceptable, it is incomprehensible! This is unacceptable! Your silence is deafening!

My brothers and sisters, leaders and top leaders, members of the institutions set up by Mowlana Hazar Imam, take responsibility! You must realize that this pain is present in all of us, you must understand, accept and, face it and use your leadership position to excel and act in a dynamic that is the change we want to see Jamat in the pluralistic, diverse, meritocratic.
And that "locks", the "red tape", the "spirit of clans to cease proper functioning of our institutions!

With your support, your guidance, your interactions with each other, trying to lean on the experiences that work in some Jamaat, to emulate this form of dynamic "Leaders-Jamat-MukhiSahebs-Volunteers", which must unite, seek complementarity, unity, and which must exceed any stigma and judgments with "a priori".

You must be players "inspired" well received by all segments of the Jamaat, with a unifying spirit and willing team player, able to forget your ego and knowing beyond the divisions and especially anxious to share and honor the Guidelines and the Mowlana Hazar Imam of Hidayaths! Since the various Golden Jubilee Darbar, the roadmap is clear, well drawn!

We are all responsible because we are all concerned with these Guidelines Mowla Bapa! So do not waste our time in unnecessary conflicts, spread in the public court! Working together, you must instill this dynamic! Mowla Bapa did not he say he is very ambitious for us! It is urgent to realize, we accept each other, using all the skills to try to elevate ourselves to a higher level of consciousness! This acceptance of our diversity and pluralism within the Jamat is the key to success!
It is overrun by the lowly status of your leaders, open, inspired, loyal, generous and charismatic that we will resolve issues with our younger generations, preserve the dignity of older people, tackling the problems of extreme poverty in our Jamat!

There s nothing more dramatic in the non-recognition of our own weaknesses and inner conflicts! There is that "Allah is great!
With the Grace of Mowla Bapa, His Mercy, His example, the wind of hope for change must be there! Please take your responsibilities and all our prayers, our forgiveness and our consideration are all yours!

All have the humility to recognize our own responsibility for every problem or conflict. But admit that this "lawsuit" is useless, it must quickly end this terrible chapter! It is a failure for us all and as you always learn from a setback, it may be the beginning of an awareness of your own responsibility and the condition of a true change of vision and Mowla Bapa behavior expected of us all!

Do not judge but to act, not to condemn another but first acknowledge and accept his own limitations. Systematically seek complementarity and encourage change for the harmonious achievement of objectives and vision for His Disciples Mowla Bapa and share with other members of the society we live in!

We must banish from our minds the suspicion, and give more freedom and give more chance to collective change. It is to trust collectively believe really change and encourage in self and others! Mowlana Hazar Imam has he not said that He is always with us!

By giving your point of view, engaging you according to your conscience in this debate and finally close this "lawsuit", know that you will enhance your status as "leaders" and that you will demonstrate a real change in your behavior without probably the result of profound thought, why not a quest leading intellectual and spiritual maturity in this form or transfer internal and individual.

With all my respect, my esteem and my respect very fraternal and sincere Ya ali Madat!
Mowla that keeps us all on the road right-of Sirata Mustaquim!

Mohez nato
Ps I allow Internet users to translate English and Bloglaw to forward my letter to the Leaders. Thank you in advance.

reply
France

* United States

I doubt if any leader will respond or act proactively
On November 18th, 2010 Alibhai jiwani (not verified) says:

I seriously doubt if any leader will really perform. The oath signing for them is like signing one piece of paper which you sign number of times when you even sign a cell phone contract or any regular contract. But I hope I am surprised. Also must ask for the farman book which was promised by LIF in the lengthy harsh announcement a year ago. When is it going to be available?

* United States

So what went wrong (& why) ?
On November 16th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

So what went wrong (& why) in not using arbitration in this lawsuit ? What will be the impact on the work and role of NCAB? - A summary from an arbitration and conciliation article by M Keshavjee in 2005. Was M Keshavjee or NCAB consulted ?
Mohamed M. Keshavjee is a Barrister-at-Law from Gray’s Inn, London and an Advocate of the High Court of Kenya. He is a Governor of IIS and has been Global head – coordinator of ITREB for over 15 years. Since 2000, he has also been responsible for conceptualising and implementing all training programmes for the National Conciliation and Arbitration Boards of the Ismaili Muslim Community internationally. He was also a part of th team who drafted our global and regional constitution and the rules.

1 The Global Ismaili Constitution is founded on each Ismaili's spiritual allegiance to the Imam of the time, which is separate from the secular allegiance which Ismailis owe as individual citizens to their respective national entities.
2 While the Constitution serves primarily the social governance needs of the Ismaili community, its provisions for encouraging amicable resolution of disputes through impartial conciliation, mediation and arbitration, are being increasingly used, in some countries, by non-Ismailis.
3 Conciliation and Arbitrations Boards of the Ismaili Community operate exist in Afghanistan, Canada, France, India, Iran, Kenya, Madagascar, Pakistan, Portugal, Syria, Tanzania, Uganda, the United Kingdom and the USA. (since 2005 other countries may have been included)
4 The Board is made entirely on a voluntary basis and the Boards are made up of trusted individuals, mainly volunteers, from various fields of endeavour from within the Ismaili Community.
5 The Boards also act as an arbitration and judicial body and accordingly hear and adjudicate upon commercial, business and other civil liability matters and domestic and family matters.
6 The informing ethos of all these boards are the principles of negotiated settlement (sulh) and forgiveness embodied in the Holy Qur'an, the Sunnah (tradition) of the Prophet (P.B.U.H.) the guidance of the earlier Imams and the teaching and guidance of the present, 49th Imam. The Boards always operate within the laws of the various countries in which they function.
7 In keeping with the guidance of the present Imam, an international training programme was launched in England in 2000 with a view to upgrading the skills and proficiencies of the Conciliation and Arbitration system of the Shi'a Imami Ismaili Muslims. An important aspect of the training programmes is to ensure a balance between the lived wisdom of the various communities, the basic ethical framework of Islam which emphasizes care, compassion and consideration and the principles of contemporary ADR practice. …The programmes are conceptualized to ensure a balance between a "top down", inductive approach and a "bottom up", deductive one (JP Lederach).
8 The training programmes, which started off in the United Kingdom in 2000, have undergone changes, as the roll outs move from one country to another. New dimensions, highlighting the concept of greater relationality, called for ongoing re-designing. "Community sculpt", as the authors refer to greater stakeholder participation, indicates that in various cultures, if one does not include critical stakeholders as part of the solution, they become part of the problem.
9 This paper shows how the judiciaries of other countries are beginning to recognise the NCABs as bona fide bodies and are referring matters back to them for resolution, within the framework of the ethical norms and principles set up for their effective operation.

* United Kingdom

The consent judgement Not done.
On November 16th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

The consent judgment not working out may be a blessing in disguise for the defendants. It would have guaranteed a “ off the hook” immunity status to the leaders by making defendants withdraw the allegations of fraud.

They are the ones who did not follow MHI’s wish to end the lawsuit by consent judgment and all other guidance given off the record. They rushed to proceed for summary judgment by running with only “on record sentences” of an irregularly conducted discovery and ignoring all the guidance given by Hazar Imam, defendants did not do it.

Leaders are not doing Farman bardari to the Hazar Imam. The discovery process and the subsequent non-actions and rushing for summary judgment make it obvious. Hazar Imam appeared to “Save his leaders and institutions” but seeing the non-grateful behaviors of leaders in question he might have rethought the result and planned a different outcome? (In Batin)(May be)! (He is the only one making all this Leela)

The consent judgment to work out was more in favor of the leaders than the defendants. They had more at stake and a greater responsibility towards jamat and Hazar Imam. They are the ones who should have really worked hard to get the allegations of fraud removed. Why would Hazar Imam simply not say there was no fraud? There was no need for him to urge to remove the allegations. (So the fraud did happen?)

And Nagib and Alnaz complied in their signed consent judgment drafts but it was Mr. Gray who wanted differently. The issue of infringement, once the defendants agree they will not publish anymore was not much of any significance.
In the last 50 yrs how many people have tried to print Firmans randomly? And in future once the article may be in place in constitution and official copyright certificate done if MHI wishes there is no Q of future problems of others doing it if that was a concern.

Not working on Imam’s directions might hurt them big time! But they have more faith in Mr. Gray than Hazar Imam? So that is why they are going by Gray’s recommendations and not by Hazar Imam’s who clearly indicated to work to gather and work by conciliation and he clearly acknowledged the defendants by offering to work together in future and meeting in future!

What will happen say the judge rules that the discovery process was not fair to the defendants? There is a 50 percent chance of each party to win the summary judgment there is a 50 percent chance court may rule there was forgery and case be dismissed, then what? Who loses? Of course the leadership. MHI tried but they failed to appreciate and submit.
I understand the other 50 percent chance of defendants losing which is same as agreeing to consent judgment prepared by Mr. Gray, which I believe, includes everything on statement of claims anyways. So who has more at stake?

Nagib and Alnaz are right in choosing to be at the mercy of divine Mawla and Canadian judge than Mr. Gray

* United States

confused
On November 17th, 2010 confused (not verified) says:

So exactly who is Gray representing then?
On the day of the discovery, the court ordered the Plantiff to appear, and it was MHI that appeared...
Who should have been on that seat instead? Who is the real plaintiff?

* Canada

Who appeared?
On November 18th, 2010 believer (not verified) says:

On the day of the discovery, the court ordered the Plaintiff to appear, and 3 people appeared:
MHI, SS & MM

From what we have heard so far,

Imam came with a loving, calm, conciliatory attitude, and his statements were not aligned with the pleadings or the testimonies from the cross-examinations..

Gray, SS, and MM seemed aligned together and were loud and unwavering

So the question remains, who is the real plaintiff?

Good insight...
On November 20th, 2010 not as confused (not verified) says:

I supposed that makes sense to some extent - you're right all three were there. But Interestingly the court swore in only MHI as the plaintiff and not SS/MM.
YAM

* Canada

After reviewing the Discovery transcripts
On November 16th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Today I read the transcript of the discovery (Oct 15, 2010) again and recognized that Mr. Gray has very cleverly and successfully got on record all that he wanted.

Alnaz and Nagib were spiritually overwhelmed and were unaware of the manipulative game of Mr. Gray in process who was fully functional as a “lawyer only” and got exactly what he needed.

Since Alnaz and Nagib do not have lawyers and previously Mr. Gray had motioned the first order of Judge Tabib for the plaintiff to attend the discovery in that light the judge might understand the defendant’s point of view versus how aggressive actions of Mr. Gray have been all along and may not easily grant summary judgment to the plaintiff in the upcoming sessions.

The weaker side is normally given a due consideration and fairness by the judge. Also Mr. Gray has repeatedly included Alnaz in his letters to the court regarding discovery but :

1.Alnaz was never supposed to be a part of the discovery. He was merely advised to be present.

2.He was not supposed to function as Nagib’s lawyer how could he order the reporter to remain on or off record? That will prove that Gray controlled the court reporter.

3. Incidentally there is nothing in the transcript that “confirms that was no forgery”

4 Nothing says that.” There was no verbal consent in the Mehmani”

5.Why were Mr. Manji and Dr Sachedina allowed to be present during discovery without defendant’s permission?

The above points might make the judge suspect that bullying and manipulations might have indeed happened in the discovery process.

In that case it will be very difficult for him to give summary judgment right away in favor of the plaintiff.

On the other side if the “on record contents” of the discovery are still accepted by the judge than the defendants “agreeing to withdrawing all allegations of forgery” will not help them to give a summary judgment in favor of defendants either.

From the above It looks to me (I am not a lawyer but from common sense) like there is no end to the case in very near future. Hazar Imam saying: “ We will meet again” to Alnaz and Tazdin might prevail sooner than expected. And he might choose to return to the court once again for his 2 true momins. He will not let injustice be done to his momins that is my faith-based statement. “He loves his true momins much more than they can ever love him.”

The first arrival was to “save leaders” but incidentally Gray’s own sabotaged the discovery process may be a blessing in disguise to the defendants and Hazar Imam might arrive second time for his “momins only.” And Mawla does not ever complain if he has to do anything extra for his “true momins” It is his pleasure always. Let others yell whatever they want. (My statement is our faith based)

To save his “true momins” and reestablish religious principle whenever they are abnegated by evil forces is the sole purpose of his “ Avtar’. He is the 10 th Naklanki Avtar of the Lord (as per Ginans and validation in Bombay High courts ref Haji bibi case) He is no regular man.

He has no other significant goal in his life (Ref GJ Firman talika 2008) except the well being of his Jamat.

Alnaz and Nagib are his true momins. They have no malice or selfish interest. They are doing a noble task of spreading Lord’s words to his jamat. They maintained the dignity of Mawla’s physical presence in front of them and did not ask questions out of their spiritual belief, overriding the legal necessity. Shukhar! Hazar Imam is fully aware of everything . His affection felt by the defendants in his presence confirms it. His silence is always a blessing. His non-intervention signifies his ability to not only to look into future but also “to know the future”. Hence he is cool. His Noor is guiding the true momins always. From a purely legal perspective victory for Gray seems imminent but based on faith-based knowledge it seems remote Only Mawla knows the end. But he has given me intellect and faith so I am using it.

* United States

The defendants were not
On November 16th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The defendants were not sworn and this was not a discovery of the defendants by Gray. The Judge will be able to see through if there is any attempt in this direction.

http://www.advocates.ca/assets/files/pdf/education/Symposium-on-Professi...
6.03 (3) A lawyer shall avoid sharp practice and shall not take advantage of or act without fair warning upon slips, irregularities, or mistakes on the part of other licensees not going to the merits or involving the sacrifice of a client's rights.

6.03 (5) A lawyer shall not in the course of a professional practice send correspondence or otherwise communicate to a client, another licensee, or any other person in a manner that is abusive, offensive, or otherwise inconsistent with the proper tone of a professional communication from a lawyer.

Agreements Guaranteeing Recovery
19. In civil proceedings the lawyer has a duty not to mislead the court about the position of the client in the adversary process.

@ librarian-umed
On November 16th, 2010 Muhamad (not verified) says:

As summary judgment matter is on 7th December, any possibility of success by alnaz to solve this problem before trial through new motions against gray?

* Canada

New motions
On November 16th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

No I don't have any plans for any motion, and at the motions for summary judgement nothing of the discovery can be presented to the judge, and the record that is filed is the only issues that can be argued.

* Canada

Defendants were not sworn -
On November 16th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

Defendants were not sworn - so is any evidence given by them admissible for the summary judgement hearing? The examiner was Nagib, and so should all discovery questions have been addressed to MHI (by Gray and Nagib) and if so only MHI responses are admissible. Is that correct ? . In this discovery all questions on record were by Mr Gray to Nagib ?

* United Arab Emirates

@Umed
On November 16th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

In the light of the above guidelines for the lawyers , irregularities are obvious in the discovery process.
I think defendants are safe even from the legal point of view.

* United States

The defendants were not
On November 16th, 2010 zarina (not verified) says:

you can write all you want, but the truth is that the defendants DID NOT ASK the5 questions they had agreed to ask. maybe they froze when seeing the IMAM was the real plaintiff

Imam's love for Defendants was overwhelming
On November 16th, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

The Imam replied by Himself to many more questions in our mind, contradicting the Statement of Claim and various misrepresentations about Ginans, Farmans of previous Imams etc.. he confirmed that He gave us instructions to continue with the Farman project, as in that time of 1992, he was looking for competent people. He confirmed that He knew Alnaz was not publishing, that Farmans are not edited etc.. So unless you are implying that Imam was lying in the Statement of Claim or falsely accused Alnaz, there is no trace that he confirmed at any point that he was the real Plaintiff.

@ Nagib reg: Imam's love
On November 16th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Just carry that love of Mawla in your heart like a bright light and go on. Victory or defeat is in His hands but just be strong and keep on doing your Karma. My prayers are also with you You will be sucessful by Mawla's divine help Inshaallah!AAmeen.

* United States

"MY VERY BEST WISHES ON EID"
On November 15th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

WARMEST WISHES

EID MUBARAK!

WE WISH YOU AND YOUR
DEAR ONES A VERY HAPPY EID!

"MAY IT COME WITH LOVE, PEACE OF MIND, GOOD HEALTH, AND PROSPERITY INTO YOUR LIVES!"

Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

Prayers for Truth to Triumph
On November 14th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Only a week remains when tele-conference is going to take place. Also there isn’t much time left for hearing of the case on Dec’7th. So, it is right time that all the members of the Heritage group at least pray until then for the whole truth to prevail even the court order.

Normally and almost in all cases, the courts, throughout the world, consider only those evidences and documents which are apparent. However, just because of absence of evidences or supporting documents, courts hardly give enough weight to many hidden realities and truths. For example, in this case, unrecorded material/ discussion of 25 minutes, which is a major impacting factor helpful to revealing the whole truth, may not be given due importance by the court.
I am sure, besides burning mid night oils for due preparation to put forward their arguments in the court, both Nagib and Al Naz are also regular in BK Bandagi.
We all need to pray sincerely to the Lord, HI, for the hidden truth to triumph in the court as well

OPEN LETTER TO VAZIR SACHEDINA AND M MANJI
On November 14th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

To Vazir Dr Shafik Sachedina & Mr M Manji. re : lawsuit filed against Nagib Tajdin and Alnaz Jiwa,
With the greatest of humility & respect, I am requesting you to provide the current status to all the leaders below. Particularly the following;

1 Directions given by Hazar Imam in the meeting on 15 October 2010, and how those directions differ from those confirmed by Alnaz Jiwa & Nagib Tajdin
2 What are the precise reasons why the consent order signed by Alnaz and Nagib is not acceptable or not in accordance with directions given by Hazar Imam. If the only difference is admission of infringement then please clarify why is that a critical legal need for the purposes of a consent order.
3 Why have there been no meetings between any leaders and Alnaz/Nagib since 15th October 2010 and what efforts were made, if any. (I appreciate there has been legal, (mostly confrontational) communication between the lawyers and Alnaz Jiwa/Nagib Tajdin.
I refer to the following Farmans of Hazar Imam in (and since) 1964 (from the Ismailia Association publications). The relevant excerpts are;

“…This evening when I leave you I will have left specific advice and guidance with my Jamat Leaders. I have appointed them to help you in your worldly and spiritual matters. I would like you to remember that whatever differences of opinion you may have between you and between one institution and another you are at all times brothers and sisters and it gives me deep physical pain when … you are not working together nor do I wish any difference be known outside my Jamat ….I do not wish to see any slight difference of opinion you may have to be broadcast outside the Jamat…”’ … “It has been in our Jamat for many hundreds of years the tradition that spiritual children who have a problem should be able to write to their Imam… It is a tradition I wish to keep ….” … I have appointed leaders for your good … Ïf there are matters that are worrying you about these leaders then write to your Imam… “ Just as problems in families and between individuals, in the Jamat should ALWAYS be solved by arbitration by discussion, by friendship ..”

Having regard to the meeting on 15 October 2010 and in view of the above, I feel compelled to write to you, and also because continuing this case is no longer necessary, or in the Jamat’s interest.

If Hazar Imam has given you any directions contrary to the above or regarding sharing with Leaders, then I request you to also share those directions with them

Copy to Chairman of LIF, Heads of IIS, Chairmen of ITREB, President Sahebans, and Chairman ICAB

* Germany

@Bloglaw
On November 18th, 2010 Nick Canada. (not verified) says:

I am proud of your Jawamardi and let me be very honest we hardly have real Mards like you in the Jamat who will stand up in front of our leaders as we all carry lots of fears in our hearts to stand up for any explanation on any Jamati or Tariqah matters from this leaders who are appointed by Hazar Imam to look after his Jamat. Thanks for the Farmaan which I have read for the first time. Brother, I urge you send a copy to our Hazar Imam no matter what happens, But please kindly do send him a copy.Thanks and May Mowla Bapa Bless you

* Canada

@ Bloglaw re: above post of November 14th
On November 15th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
You truly are a man of action, brother Bloglaw! Excellent letter! Mubaraki! Alnaz and Kanize had been suggesting we do resort to writing to our leaders. If more of us can do this, then Insh'Allah, the leaders will be able to force M. Sachedina to consent to judgment.
Ya Aly madad. And Eed mubaraki to you!

* Canada

@Bloglaw re: above post of Nov. 14th
On November 15th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Bravissimo, Bloglaw, bravissimo! Laakho laakho mubaraki for writing this letter, dear Bloglaw! And a million thank yous!!!
Mowla sukhi raakhè, Bloglaw! I am so glad you have taken this initiative! Laakho shukhar!
And what an enlightening farman too! I cannot thank you enough, Bloglaw.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

OPEN LETTER TO VAZIR SACHEDINA AND M MANJI
On November 15th, 2010 Rahman (not verified) says:

" Ïf there are matters that are worrying you about these leaders then write to your Imam....

I think you should consider sending copy of this letter to Hazar Imam,

* United States

@Rahman re: above post of Nov. 15
On November 15th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
You really think that if Bloglaw did send a copy to Hazer Imam, Mowla Bapa would get it ?????
I am rather skeptical...
Ya Aly mada, Rahman.

* Canada

Kanzie, YAM. We all know
On November 16th, 2010 Rahman (not verified) says:

Kanzie,

YAM. We all know that wall is very vary thick, but no harm in trying.

* United States

@Bloglaw
On November 15th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Bloglaw. What a "great action". Thank You

* Canada

@bloglaw : regarding open letter
On November 14th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Bravo! One more Jawamard!
Please send a mailed letter also to them
Because they are not going to reply on open letter because this is not " authorised" website according to them.
They are not suppose to be checking here.
Might be visiting only "Vancouverite"

* United States

Everyone here knows this is
On November 14th, 2010 Bhaghat (not verified) says:

Everyone here knows this is not an official web site. I think their official web site is Vancouverite ;-)

``THIS LITIGATION IS BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION``
On November 14th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. ABDUL! This litigation is blown out of proportion by some who have nothing better to do other than point their fingers! The Ismaili Muslims around the world have resourcefully stood steadfast to uphold the traditions of Ismailism. They do not wish to broadcast the difference of their opinion which they know sooner or later will resolved at the behest of Almighty Allah! There is not fear among the Ismaili Muslims, nor do they wish to come forward to broadcast their allegiance by being proponent! In Ismailism, we the Ismaili Muslims have been blessed with tolerance, broad-mindedness, open-mindedness, and non-judgemental attitude. Some of us may resort to criticism and judgement due to our higher academic capacity but the end result is rationality and logic which prevails! Hazar Imam wants free discussion with friendship so that the confronting problem is resolved by arbitration! The Ismaili Muslims have always shown the loyalty to their citizenship of their country of residency. In this day-and-age, there is no factor like fear or illiteracy. The Ismaili Muslims have always respected other religion and other people of the world! Our religion is very flexible which allow us to participate and contribute to have our say made public and in private gathering. Hazar Imam is never displeased if our conscience can figure out the right and the wrong! He wants us to become decisive and conscientious in our performance. Nobody can deprive anybody for one’s rightful place in the society! There will be difference of opinion, criticism, and judgement but it is not the end of the world! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

@ Shivji :We must not be so vain and self egoistic
On November 17th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

We Ismailis should not keep thinking we are great!
We have a lot to improve.
The minute pride sets in that you are performing great.... there you start with your downfall
There is a lot of jealousy and malice in the jamat.
Institutions are slowly losing the credibility because of their obvious partial behaviours.
The leaders somehow think they are "blessed" because they have positions.They are not at all open to recommendations or criticism and hence the accountability and quality of work is deteriorating.They only like to be praised even if not performing.

The case is not only about the copyright but it is also about the basic tenents of our faith, doctrines,also an institutional reality check and much more .
If any it is under realised rather than blown out of proportion
99.90 percent of the jamat know next to nothing about the case.
Just because a few bloggers keep posting repeatedly that does not mean it is blown out of proportion.

Is anything achieved by big big advises and lofty claims of being a great community?
Is any one really contributing towards a solution?
Are we following even 5 percent of farmans our Mawla is making?
He is the only one working hard for our spiritual and material upliftment .
Are we working really as His partners in improving the plight of the global jamat? No.
We only follow what we like and what suits us and claim we are great murids!
It is in fact high time everyone wakes up!!

* United States

"We have to become partners with our Imam"
On November 17th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Yam, Mr. Alibhai Jiwani (USA)

The Ismaili Muslims Institution has grown very fast. It has its recognized charter and officeholders who are defining the course of action and guiding principle of the Institution! Perceptibly, the mannerisms in which they conduct themselves actually denote their upbringing and wrong use of their corporate education. When they do not become conscious about other people, they are creating distinct liability by their misconduct and closed door policies! They become wrongdoer in their legal responsibility, accountability, responsibility, and menace to the Jamat!

The infringement, the court case, and its consequences have happened and will soon end! Gradually it is descending in past tense, and I am not worried about it now. I am neither opponent not I am proponent. I would like to see in my life time a united, happy, and prosperous Ismaili Muslims Community. I admit there will be a few who may not believe in our optimism and idealism but they will understand our optimism someday! We have to become partners with our Imam for betterment of our Jamat globally. Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

”WE ARE ONE JAMAT, ONE PEOPLE!”
On November 14th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MS YASMIN! I have just read the excerpts 1964 – Deedar (Ismaili Association). I will not quote the Farman but I would like to say this in my vindication! Yes, I am the same Nizar Ali K. Shivji! Whatever the differences we have in our interpretation, we are always, at all times, bothers and sisters. Therefore, I do now wish to pain Hazar Imam. No matter how the circumstance has divided us, we are still the spiritual children of Hazar Imam. I would like to solve my problems amicably, and I believe any problem has a solution! How you derive at a solution, the solution has to resolve like a problem in families and between individuals! We are one Jamat and our differences should be resolved by negotiation, by discussion, and by friendship! It is not easy but we can always try! I am a human being and I have my foible! So, Ms Yasmin be rest assured, it is like the beauty and beast! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

@Nizar Shivji
On November 14th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Mr Shivji. I am so glad to hear from you again. Thank you.

* Canada

@Yasmin regarding Mr Shivji
On November 14th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

really?

* United States

"SORRY, IT IS PLUS FOR ME!!!!"
On November 15th, 2010 NIZAR ALI K. SHIVJI (not verified) says:

YAM MR. ALIBHAI! IT IS A PLUS FOR ME!! WITH MY VERY BEST ON HAPPY EID. ALLAH HAFEZ, NIZAR ALI K. SHIVJI!

* Canada

Posting in Capital letter is
On November 16th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Posting in Capital letter is considered as Yelling on the internet and is against the "Netiquette"

@shivji
On November 16th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

No need to yell .

* United States

IMAM SAYS “..ALWAYS, BY ARBITRATION, BY DISCUSSION BY FRIENDSHI
On November 13th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

NEWS EDITOR VANCOUVERITE - Prior to this discovery, an offer of a meeting was made to the defendants. Ask Alnaz why that was turned down. And this was several months prior to the discovery. Alnaz will tell you the meeting with HH was turned down – not because they had doubts about who the plaintiff was – but because HH wanted them to consent to certain conditions prior to the meeting. ……So tell me, do you know of other Ismailis who would turn down a consensual meeting with HH because of a small sacrifice – particularly in view of the fact that your friends claim they would lay down their lives for him?

REPLY BLOGLAW NOVEMBER 13, Editor you are being at best economical with the facts to suit you. Therefore you are distorting the facts and misinforming (as a journalist). What you are referring to was a conditional offer from Mr Gray which I commented on as you did.

That offer in light of the meeting of 15 October 2010, was not from the Imam. See a part of my comment below. I will be happy to send a copy of my full analysis and comment of over 4 months ago on Mr Grays conditional offer;

This case could have been settled in May 2010 If Mr Gray and Dr SS/MM really wanted to settle. Do you agree? Also see Farman excerpt below. All leaders and murids need to read, understand and ask 1 Would Imam file a law suit against his murids in light of his Farmans. 2. Should not the leaders meet Alnaz and Nagib to agree and sign the consent order 3 Should we not move back these differences internally within the Jamat and any damage reversed. 4 Should Leaders and murids write to leaders and share their thoughts on this lawsuit?

Mr Gray conditional offer - “…..10…. Mr Gray then says MHI “indicated” (not confirmed) to Mr Gray that Tajdin and Jiwa should agree unconditionally to
a. Acknowledge MHI has copyright to his Farmans (this is not at issue if we exclude our belief that Farmans for Ismailis in their personal beliefs include divine revelations by the Imam and his authority in continuing the Tawil and Talim of the Quran and final message of Allah to mankind.)
b. Tajdin and Jiwa have infringed the copyright (Tajdin and Jiwa are saying that they are following specific farmans from the Imam and they are seeking direct guidance & instructions from their Imam which they have not received so far) .
c. Deliver up the remaining books (Which book ? Books? He is not specific)
11 Agree to an injunction from further copying or distributing Farmans (Books were distributed by Ismailies only to Ismailies. If they agreed to stop, Imam would certainly trust them as they sevadari’s farman bardari’s and because of their Bayat. Would Imam personally instruct Mr Gray to insist on this last pre-condition before he grants a 5-10 minute audience).
12 If Tajdin and Jiwa unconditionally & immediately agree then MHI has assured Mr Gray he will grant a personal audience so that; a. They can explain their actions b. They can ask for forgiveness c. They can make whatever representations they would like to make
(This above does not make any sense and is inconsistent coming from an eminent lawyer. He knows a meeting is requested for 5-10 to seek specific guidance, which he is fully aware of)

Farman Excerpts 1964 – Deedar (Ismailia Association) - “…This evening when I leave you I will have left specific advice and guidance with my Jamat Leaders. I have appointed them to help you in your worldly and spiritual matters. I would like you to remember that whatever differences of opinion you may have between you and between one institution and another you are at all times brothers and sisters and it gives me deep physical pain when … you are not working together nor do I wish any difference be known outside my Jamat ….I do not wish to see any slight difference of opinion you may have to be broadcast outside the Jamat…”’ … “It has been in our Jamat for many hundreds of years the traditions that spiritual children who have a problem should be able to write to their Imam… It is a tradition I wish to keep ….” … I have appointed leaders for your good … Ïf there are matters that are worrying you about these leaders then write to your Imam… “ Just as problem in families and between individuals , in the Jamat should ALWAYS be solved by arbitration by discussion, by friendship ..”

* United Kingdom

Quoting Firmans in a public forum
On November 14th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

Firmans are for Ismaili Murids only.
Quoting them even in an Ismaili run yet public forum is not appropriate.
Allahi Alim.

* Canada

farmans are visionary, relevant and make us proud
On November 14th, 2010 Monim (not verified) says:

@ Zak - I disagree because firstly these are farmans from publications which many Ismailies and non Ismailies have acces to. Secondly If these farmans excerpts are not quoted, many leaders will not believe the 2 murids. The quotations are relevant to this case and act as a reminder to us. Thirdly Leaders/LIF are not sharing or giving progres updates to the Jamat. Fourthy only selected farmans are available to read, listen and study in JK or ITREB. This is not as directed by Hazar Imam. For example If the Farmans quoted were available when Leaders are discussing this case amongst themselves would they not have been reminded and say we must meet these 2 brothers to settle this case and move the case out of the public arena. Finally if any non Ismailies read these quotes. What is the harm. Imam is giving excellent worldly guidance and if you compare this guidance is in 1964 - it was indeed visionary and to be proud of. Also what has been filed in court and said in transcripts is far more inappropriate (using your word) than quoting some Farman excerpts which are relevant reminders..

@ Mr Shivji is right that there will be differences and it is how we deal with differences openly and with respect, which makes us more pluralistic and respect will beget respect. as love for our imam will beget. love.Thank you Mr Shivjee

@ Bloglaw. Thank you for sharing your time and knowledge seva

I take this opportunity to wish everyone a happy Eid al Adha and I pray that we are all blessed with more generosity in giving of our time, love, money, & of unity, happiness tolerance and respect for each other. Ameen

* United Arab Emirates

Farmans make US proud.
On November 16th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

Sure Farmans are indeed visionary , relevant and do indeed make US proud ; however the "US" refers to Ismaili Muslim Murids....... Farmans are NOT meant to be shared outside the Jamats. Doing that is INAPPROPRIATE . Thats my point !!

* Canada

farmans are visionary, relevant and make us proud
On November 15th, 2010 zarina (not verified) says:

@Momin..... Farmans are holy word or guidance to ismailis ONLY from their Imam. It is for us keep these guidance, words to ourselves only. we have to go these farmnan .. any excerpts are not to posted, or shared in public forum.

Would you share your your family secrets in Public forum?

* Canada

“WE ALL LOVE OUR IMAM.”
On November 13th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM MR. BLOGLAW! I appreciate your blogs both in Ismaili.Net and in Vancouverite. I am like you who wish to set the record straight but other contributors like you and me will not accept our thoughts as expressed because they have something else to express!

I do understand your thoughts on this lawsuit! I have read all your comments, views, and thoughts. We have to understand that this lawsuit though it is filed under oath, it pertains to moral rights of Hazar Imam. Of course, the Ismaili Muslims Intuition and it leadership knew what the defence entails! I will not sit in denial and reject what you are saying! I understand when a litigation is launched the proceedings will be required to meet all the rules and regulations of the Court of Laws. It appears that, one way or another this court case became more like an experimentation which did not finish off the way it was expected!

Mr. Bloglaw, I know you are upset but you do agree that the response and comments on all sides have been unprecedented, sensitive, and exasperating! Many felt the response and comments were abhorring, and monstrous. But if you check with the dictionary, these words are the opposite of love and adore! I am in accord with you that Hazar Imam wants to be more pluralistic and take the lead, and I agree with if we lead by walking the walk internally we can lead externally. I am also in accord with that there should be clarification of sensitive issues amongst we and institutionally! We have to remain united, work together, and speak with one voice!

We are leading a secular life but the spirituality in our upbringing still holds the fervour of mysticism. Therefore, our interpretation will not allow anyone to ridicule our spiritual life! All the arguments which are sustained in this issue have questioned our sincerity and belief!

Our principle conviction is to ourselves and how our conscience dictates our mind and heart. The sense of right and wrong will definitely guide us if our priority is set with our belief! We should not play Gods and all knowing!

I would like to reciprocal all your good wishes word to word! I would like to thank everyone for giving their time in sharing their thoughts and knowledge. I take this opportunity to thank the Librarian Umed who have allowed and moderated this discussion. Mr. Bloglaw, like you we all do so because we care and out of love for the Imam.

May MHI accept all our Seva, and grant us all more Seva, good health, happiness and both material and spiritual prosperity. AMEEN!! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

IMAM WISHES US TO LEAD AND DEBATE AMONGST OURSELVES!!
On November 13th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Nizar Ali K. Shivji November 11, 2010 “YAM, MR. NEWS EDITOR! There is no graciousness and humility in comments made by Mr. Bloglaw!

But with Mr. Bloglaw and hs friends, its never-ending cobwebs of exasperation! Their religious interpretation is only in lip service. I am very sorry to say that they are less sensitive in paternity, and maternity despite their glorification of Ismaili Muslims Imamat! Mr. Bloglaw, in the name of Allah, please wake up to accept your accountability, and conscientiousness with grace and dignity! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

REPLY BY BLOGLAW - When the lawsuit was filed it was under oath. Leaders knew the defence. Any lawyer let alone the best would have said a personal appearance cannot be excluded. Imam knew and knows best. Leaders could have met with the defendants and Imam informally at any time before or after the lawsuit. They decided not to. Also see my post regarding what I would have done. What you would have done different Mr Shivji. All Leaders need to ponder over that question too.

I appreciate some of the responses and comments on all sides have been unprecedented, sensitive and exasperating but not monstrous or abhorring as you suggest. This is because also most of us have a mindset or conditioned(told) not to discuss such issues let alone so unprecedented and serious. Religious discussion are in any event are emotive and sensitive.

Imam wishes us to be more pluralistic and take a lead. If we lead by walking the walk internally we can lead externally ? (see Imam’s guidance & Farmans on this). Thanks to the Editors who have in fact pioneered this unprecedented debate which will help us all to ask, debate and seek clarification of sensitive issues amongst ourselves and institutionally. MHI wishes discussion and unity amongst us (work together and speak with one voice). That is also what Imam advised Dr SS before the lawsuit was filed (see his transcript about discussions amongst leaders) Maybe this debate is also a part of the intention or resultant effect MHI wished or intends. There will hopefully be a change of the mindset which MHI talked about in his lecture on 15 Oct 2010.?

I would like to thank everyone for giving their time in sharing their thoughts and knowledge. Also special thank you to the Editors who have allowed and moderated this discussion. Mr Shivji, like you we all do so because we care and out of love for the Imam.

May MHI accept all you Seva, and grant you all more Seva, good health, happiness and both material and spiritual prosperity. AMEEN

* United Kingdom

@Bloglaw
On November 13th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Mr Bloglaw. I wonder whether it is the same Mr Shivji who has made comments on this web site on Nov. 13 and also comments made on Nov. 11 on other site? Thank You.

* Canada

TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE.
On November 12th, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

From speaking to Ismailis lately, there is reluctance amongst some people to discuss this lawsuit. It appears that an atmosphere of fear and concern for their ‘name” prevents them from commenting on the obvious “elephant in the room.” Or worse, perhaps Ismailis genuinely do not want to discuss something that they see as painful and difficult. Something that forces them to acknowledge that there are differences in the way we perceive our jamaat and its leadership.

If this is true, it is a great shame.

1. Just consider that on one hand, Mowla encourages Sunnis and Shias (many of whom may even lack basic education) to be pluralistic in their ways. i.e. to dialogue, understand and accept those who have different approaches to the great philosophical issues of God, human existence, morality etc. On the other hand, in Ismailis, we have a community of highly educated Canadians, who are reluctant to even acknowledge that differences exists amongst them, let alone come to some accommodation with those with whom they don’t see eye to eye.

2. In gatherings, both private and public, one gets the impression that people have been made to believe that to talk about the lawsuit would somehow displease the Imam. But the way Mowla allowed the discovery to proceed shows quite clear that he wants a dialogue. He invited both sides to work together. He blessed the families of the sewadaries Tajdin and Jiwa. So who is preventing Ismailis from giving their views on this issue. (We know Ismailis have plenty of views about the Catholic priests and Iranian mullahs). Who do the Ismailis have to fear…certainly not their Imam because not a day goes by without Mowla extolling the virtues of discussion, dialogue and tolerance in religious matters.

3. It is possible that some people fear that their views may be reported up the chain of command to reach MM and SS and they will be “blacklisted” from council “positions”. But that would only help to explain the spineless LIF and other opportunists, who usually have no opinions anyways and pursue prestige and power in name of “sewa”

4. The rank and file are genuine sevadaris, loyal to the Imam and should have nothing to fear. They should find their voices and give their views. They may end up disagreeing with others; some will side with SS and MM, whilst others will see the hand of Mowla in the steps taken by Mr. Tajdin & Mr Jiwa. But all will learn new things and in the end, their faith in the Imam will be shown by the way they handle those with differing opinions. Do they truly accept the Imam’s vision of a pluralistic world, by respecting the Tajdins and Jiwa of our community or do they, like toy soldiers, just mouth the slogans, forever bellowing praise for Mowla’s words but failing to implement them, particularly in the toughest issue to come before the Canadian jamaat.

5. After all, if an Ismaili Imam can get respect from people who follow other faiths and politics, even if when he is a member of that sometimes much feared and despised community (Muslims), then surely fellow Ismailis deserve to be heard when they have a concern or a complaint or a difference of opinion. After all, these Murids are only disagreeing on the tactics of how to spread the Imam’s farmans. One shudders to imagine if they had questioned some real theological concepts of Ismailism, the way the Christians, Jews, Hindus and even Buddhist have done in the last century.

6. It is also a great shame because, by burying the issue of the lawsuit, we send a negative message to our kids; as it is, young people have much less faith in our system, preferring to “drop out” of the JK as soon as they are free from parental control (other than the children of those opportunist leaders, who see themselves enjoying the same prestige and power though nepotism). The message Ismaili parents send to their kids is that the practise of faith is just a matter of mindless rituals – when it comes to actually thinking through a difficult theological matter, everyone “runs for the hills”. Whether it is through fear or deliberate “ignorance”, our children are witnessing the shallowness of their parent’s faith.

7. Our faith, since the time of Hazrat Ali, commands us to develop our intellectual skills to meet the challenges of each new era. We are forbidden to hide our heads in the sand and ignore the facts. There is a law suit in the courts of Ontario that involves the Imam. Sooner or later, the general public will tune in and ask some tough questions. Then Ismailis will be forced to respond or else look dumb. Surely it is better to acquaint oneself with the true facts now.

The best way to know the truth is to visit the Heritage web site. This is where the case is reported daily in frank and comprehensive way. Documents, arguments and opinions of all sides are giving a fair airing. As they say, the truth shall set you free.

* Seychelles

@Abdul
On November 13th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad. Well said. I have said in my previous postings, that our Ismaili Jamat should be more open-minded. Many of them do not wish to discuss this lawsuit, because they do not know all the facts which can be found on Heritage Site, and I think they also feel that whatever the leaders say in Jamatkhanas, is always the "truth", because they have been appointed by Our Imam, and it can affect their "faith". Thank You.

* Canada

@Abdul re: above post of Nov. 12
On November 13th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Your third point is so very true, brother Abdul !
In addition, it is so sad that because of the same fear (i.e. to be "blacklisted") the ordinary members of the Jamat who are aware that this lawsuit was never initiated by Hazer Imam don't dare approach their respective leaders to ask them to channel their request to stop this lawsuit to the higher authorities. If the members of the Jamat overcame that fear and spoke frankly to their local and national councils, this lawsuit would not go much further...
Thank you for your insightful analysis.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

You are right. Imam e zaman
On November 13th, 2010 @Pirani (not verified) says:

You are right. Imam e zaman has said in farmans that It is the duty and responsibility of every leader to read understand and discuss issues concerning the jamat today and effect in the future on both worldly and spiritual matters. Imam has made it clear in farmans that every leader and mukhi's should do so and they can individually write and seek guidance from the Imam and so can any Murid if they are concerned about any leaders or issues. Unfortunately one of the issues highlighted by this case is access to the Imam. When anyone writes to Imam e zaman it goes to and through the same leaders in question as in this lawsuit. Therefore now other leaders are able to get or send information and feed back through this website.

* United Arab Emirates

BLOGLAW summarised, WHY
On November 13th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

BLOGLAW summarised, WHY leaders need to get involved proactively to address the root causes which have led to this unprecedented situation @ BLOGLAW The two root causes to be reversed are;

1 Members of the Jamat have limited access, and encounter difficulties to access Farmans & guidance even in JK’s or ITREB..

2 The widening and growing gap between Imam’s Farmans/Guidance and the ground realities in practice in both worldly and spiritual matters. Imam & leaders are therefore not getting all the correct or complete information and reports. This is because of excessive almost absolute authority & control by a few leaders.

* United Arab Emirates

@ Abdul
On November 13th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I agree with you.
There is a total ignorance about the lawsuit on the part of majority of the Ismailis. They do not visit Heritage site because they say it is not"authorised site".we are not suppose to go there.It is "na farmani" Even among the educated Ismailis very very few have read the cross examinations of Sachedina and defendants. It is like some 2 murids are so bad they are fighting MHI we do not even want to know more.

"IF MHI has chosen Sachedina to be his # 1 man . Why should I doubt his loyalty? If Imam trusts Him I trust him "
This is the answer I got from one of my very intellectual highly educated attorney friend from London.

He was not even open to any more discussions. The minute he came to know I am supporting the defendants view , the communication is minimised significantly. Some are saying defendants are not even listening to the verbal directions from Mawla. Mawla asked them to end the lawsuit and they are still fighting in court. This the situation in USA.

As you said truth shall sit on the roof and yell out then may be some will wake up. Until then everyone is enjoying their perceived slumber party

* United States

@Alibhai Jiwani re: above post of Nov. 13
On November 13th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
What a sad situation, brother Alibhai. I am afraid, it (the situation) is very similar in Canada too, alas: very few people are aware of the real facts reagarding the lawsuit, 99 % of the jamat is little informed about the basic principles of the faith and they don't even realize that no Imam would ever sue a mureed whose bayyat He has accepted. It is most distressing...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Oral directions received
On November 12th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Oral directions received from the Court: Mireille Tabib, Prothonotary dated 12-NOV-2010 directing that "The parties are required to provide their availability to participate in a telephone conference during the weeks of November 15 or 22, 2010." Parties advised by e-mail. placed on file on 12-NOV-2010

IF YOUR FATHER FILED A LAWSUIT AGAINST YOU BLOGLW
On November 11th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

EDITOR OF VANCOUVERITE News Editor November 11, 2010 -Civility and debate in good faith is okay. However, spinning cobwebs is for spiders to do – so refrain from it. The most natural progression would have been for two Ismailis to realize that it would be abominable to bring their spiritual father to a cross examination under oath through a court order. People with faith would have accepted a verbal message from their Imam – and in this case it was signed letters, affidavits, the Boston affirmation, a letter from Prince Amyn. And what is so surprising is that this comes from two people who claim they would lay down their lives. This hypocrisy is what riles Ismailis most. “

SERIOUSLY NOW BLOGLAW, would you have put your natural father or mother through a sworn cross examination for your benefit and not theirs? And these people have said that HH is more than their natural parents, more than their live’s worth? Don’t you find the dichotomy disturbing at all? What is so natural about this progression of shame?

REPLY BY BLOGLAW - Editor Thank you for asking. If my Father had filed a lawsuit against me and I sincerely believed, this was because he did not have all or the correct facts or that he was not the plaintiff.

1 Then I would first try to seek a meeting with him together with my brothers
2 If my father instead sent letters or documents which I did not really believe came from him, I would submit my side of the facts and evidence, and I would also seek a meeting for 5 minutes with my father
3 Then if the only way of meeting my father was through the court process, I would try to do so as quickly as I can in order to end the lawsuit.
4 When I meet my Father, I would not question him but seek directions from him
5 Then I would follow the directions given by our Father to the letter and spirit.
6 If there was a misunderstanding in the directions then I would first seek a meeting and clarification with my brothers.
7 Meanwhile I would prepare sign and send to them what I understood were the directions given by our Father in their presence.
THIS IS WHAT ALNAZ AND NAGIB DID. WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE? WHERE IS THE HYPOCRISY OR DICHOTOMY OR PROGRESSION OF SHAME YOU SPEAK OF ?

On the other hand If I was Dr SS and MM, then certainly after 15 October 2010 I would have had a meeting with my brothers as a priority to discuss, agree and follow ALL directions given by our Father to the letter and spirit. Unless of course our Father specifically directed us not to have any meetings or discussions with Alnaz and Nagib. If that was the case Mr Gray has prepared 2 drafts of the consent order so far and we have the draft signed by Alnaz and Nagib.
Maybe Dr SS and MM are no longer involved in this lawsuit, and the 3 drafts of the consent orders with are with Hazar Imam for consideration. (& other Leaders may also be involved).

* Germany

Why has the case not ended as yet?
On November 11th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

The spiritual and religious teachings worldwide and cross culturally right starting from the times immemorial even when there were limitations of writing skills and languages and availability of papers etc (Vedas and Bible, and Quran, Bhagvat and Geeta and All the Imam’s Farmans) always of course have copyrights of their original authors. Of their originators!
But the authors themselves and the Gurus and Peers have never stopped anyone from copying it and spreading it to the humanity Because reaching it to the believers is the “very essence” of its authorship.

Why would Hazar Imam make so many Farmans and not keep it easily available to his murids and start suing anyone or everyone who with nobility and devotions assists in making it available to his Murids? Does it make sense? Does it sound true? He would never ever do that.

Of course every author does not want his work it to be altered or misinterpreted randomly and wants to ensure it reaches the believers in the accurate form. If any one tries to alter it perhaps that would be considered infringement of copyright and subject to scrutiny and perhaps necessary action

So MHI has Tarika board to ensure authenticity and rapidity and efficiency and responsibility with which the Farmans can be published and distributed to reach even the remotest areas of the world expeditiously. In this age of Internet may be in minutes! Why not? Tarika board has all the acumen at their exposure.

But if that very entrusted Institution does not perform the mandated task in a timely fashion and take decades to print even a small booklet of Farmans What must be done? And we jamat do not ask leaders Why? Out of sheer fear or so called respect for leaders!! Then what? Allah does not help the communities, which do not want to improve their own plight. (Quran And ISMS Farman). We must have the desire and must make effort.

We believe in Hazar Imam because his Farmans are very current and the guidance is well in pace with the time. We believe guidance given 1400yrs ago in Quran needs updates all the time. But if we cannot access that updated guidance as and when we want the whole point becomes totally illogical. Jamat does not raise objection for fear of being looked down upon by leaders who give a very ready answer. “It is Hazar Imam’s wish not to publish”. Shut everyone up!
But can they produce any evidence for that quick and easy statement? Any farman any talika anything to validate that Hazar imam really does not want to publish his own Farmans for decades? None.

It is just an easy way out of performing their mandated tasks. The institutional leaders only wanted the power and authority hence they accepted the position not really interesting in performing or serving with sincerity. So unless some Jawamards like Nagib and Alnaz come forward and seek accountability of the Institutions many of the Farmans will disappear just as it has happened in the past Ismaili history.

There is no reason why it should happen in this era of the highest technological advancement Internet and democracy and such a forthcoming Harvard educated Imam and so much more. It will be a shame if we let that happen. It is only our fault no one else’s. Hazar Imam cannot micromanage for us.He has provided all the tools to us. It is up to us to rise to get what we want. We have to rise to improve our own plight or at least support those who are bravely rising for this important work so vital to sustain our faith.

The life is so busy people do not have time to go and visit their old and sick parents how will they go to Tarika board office and make appointments t to read Farmans? Ridiculous idea! Would Hazar Imam ever recommend that?
Can anyone with sound intellect believe that? Are we that motivated by our Alvaez’s and Mukhi kamadia? Why would Hazar Imam make it so hard? He wants to make religion as easy as possible because he understands the pressures of modern life. Even Quran mentions that Allah does not want religion to be hard for you.

He desires ease for his believers.

There is no monopoly on good knowledge of anyone .It belongs to entire humanity. With center of pluralism making its progress Mark my word His Farmans will be made available by Mawla to everyone in search of knowledge and spiritual enlightenment. Right now may be he does not think is the right time. It will take some time but it is bound to happen
He will determine when is the right time but for sure it will happen. What all is happening now is a preparation for that stage. Global center of pluralism will make available teachings of every religion for everyone to access with responsible behavior. Because this knowledge belongs to every seeker of God and spiritual enlightenment. No one has monopoly on it.

Of course to maintain the sanctity and authenticity is vital and that it will demand responsibility. That is true with every facet of life. The very fact that lawsuit is still not concluded means it has still not achieved what it is suppose to achieve. There must be a lofty goal. This was just an interim break, opportunity to leaders to save themselves from humiliation and offer corrective measures. But they have failed to understand it because of lack of true faith. Opportunity missed by them big time! I want be surprised if Hazar Imam will let the defendants win the case. Because there is no infringement really as Alnaz and Nagib are convinced and are trying to explain to everyone. Hazar Imam Acknowledged the Mehmani incident and he “did not” say “that was no consent” Also he “did not say there was no forgery”. He has copyrights of course everyone has but he did not say you couldn’t spread my Farmans.

In essence the whole creation of the universe is a copyright of the Lord. Can any one deny that? Who can dare copy it without his will? Can you make a tiny cell without his will? Including invitro fertilization! Despite marvelous technology not every ovum or sperm are able to produce babies in test tubes! How come Tarika board with its all needed acumen and resources and big lengthy announcement to world jamat have not been able to come up with even a small booklet of GJ Farmans in one whole year? How could Nagib achieve anything if it was not Mawla’s will? My wife could not carry a lipstick in the deedar hall without being confiscated how did he manage to record each and every Farman? Was not Mawla aware he is doing it? My wife’s camera became nonfunctional once she tried to take Hazar Imam’s photo somewhere! No picture! He is almighty! How could the case be not concluded if it was Not Mawla’s wish?
To deny the power of Mawla’s will is denying the foundation of our faith. That Hazar Imam is the Noor of Allah. He is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent.

Why are we blaming these two murids? They are only the medium through which he is playing his Leela

* United States

Touching, very much so
On November 11th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Very touching, and well reasoned. After arguing cases before ajudhe, this is how judges would explain their judgement.

* Canada

@Alibhai Jiwani
On November 11th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Mr. Jiwani. Very well said. Thank You.

* Canada

Your comment Mr Bloglaw
On November 10th, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

As usual Shabaash !!! We have nothing to add...

* Canada

ALL COMPLANTS AND FEEDBACK SHOULD BE TREATED EQUALLY AND FAIRLY
On November 9th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

EDITOR you say ….the two friends (ALNAZ/NAGIB) continue to provoke and test the system and their latest salvo takes direct aim at the leader (IMAM) of the Ismaili community, his ability to make decisions for the community and his wisdom in making these decisions.

NAGIB AND ALNAZ HAVE IDENTIFIED SERIOUS GAPS AND HIGHLIGHTED THEM TO THE IMAM, LEADERS AND THE JAMAT. THIS IS IN ACCORDANCE WITH IMAM’S FARMANS, DIRECTIONS, CONSTITUTION AND INSTITUTIONAL GUIDELINES.

ALSO CHILDREN INFORMING THEIR FATHER OR THEIR BROTHERS AND SISTERS ABOUT THEIR CONCERNS IS NOT A REASON TO DIS-OWN BUT A REASON TO THANK THEM EVEN IF WE MAY NOT ALWAYS AGREE WITH THEM.

IMAM GAVE DIRECTIONS IN A 30 MINUTE MEETING WHICH ARE NOT BEING FOLLOWED. THE LEADERS IN QUESTION ARE NOT MEETING THE 2 MURIDS TO WORK TOGETHER WITH THEM AND SPEAK WITH ONE VOICE.

TESTING THE SYSTEM AND GIVING FEEDBACK OR HIGHLIGHTING ANY SYSTEMIC FLAWS IS A PART OF OUR INSTITUTIONAL PROCESS. HOWEVER THE TESTING AND REPORTING IS CONTROLLED BY LEADERS IN QUESTION AND MAINTINING THE SYSTEMIC STATUS QUO.

EDITOR: Ismailis have found this to be distasteful and we share that frustration. Hence, the call for measures under the constitution of the Ismailis. .. The pressure is building to hold the hearings..”

EDITOR WITH RESPECT YOU MEAN LEADERS IN QUESTION WHO YOU HAVE BEEN SPEAKING TO, ARE SAYING THEY ARE FRUSTRATED. IF NOT WHO GAVE YOU THIS INFORMATION, WHAT RESEARCH DID YOU DO. WHEN AND WHAT FORMAL COMPLAINTS HAVE BEEN MADE.

YOU ALSO SAY PRESSURE IS BUILDING ON HOLDING HEARINGS – DO YOU MEAN THESE ARE BEING CONSIDERED BY THE TOP LEADERS YOU ARE SPEAKING TO? IF SO IS THIS NOT A CONFLICT OF INTEREST (UNDER NORMAL INTERNATIONAL ARBITRATION RULES THIS WOULD BE SO. IN OUR ARBITRATION POLICIES AND ETHOS THIS IS THE CASE (SEE MOHAMMED KESHAVJEE AUTHORITATIVE ARTICLES AND SPEECHES ON THIS SUBJECT)

Editor: "We are saying that social friction created deliberately by two people should not go unchallenged and a hearing should be held. The constitution suggests that a hearing should be called upon a complaint being received. Such complaints have been received. We think those complaints should be taken up and appropriate measures initiated to hold disciplinary hearings"

WHAT DID THE CONSTITUTION OR THE INSTITUTION DO FOR 2 MURIDS BEFORE THE LAWSUIT WAS FILED. NAGIB AND HAD MADE VERY SERIOUS COMPLAINTS ? WERE THE NATIONAL OR INTERNATIONAL CONCILATION BOARD CHAIR PERSONS CONSULTED OR INFORMED. HAVE THEY BEEN KEPT INFORMED?

MORE COMPLAINTS,GAPS AND REVELATIONS WERE MADE AFTER THE LAWSUIT WAS FILED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ALNAZ NOT EVEN HAVING BEEN CONTACTED FOR ANY CONCILIATION WHATSOEVER BY SS, MM OR ANYONE ELSE.

WHAT DID, WILL AND SHOULD THE INSTITUTION (ALL LEADEERS) DO REGARDING THESE COMPLAINTS FROM THE 2 MURIDS AND FROM THE LEADERS IN QUESTION (BOTH UNPRECEDENTED) . NOW FROM THE EDITOR OF VANCOUVERITTE AND HIS FRIENDS.

IF ALL COMPLAINTS ARE TREATED EQUALLY AND FAIRLY THEN ALL THESE COMPLAINTS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED INSTITUTIONALLY NOT SELECTIVELY. Then IF DECIDED TO BE HEARD. (IF SO ACCESS TO ALL THE RELATED CONSTITUTIONS, RULES PROCEDURES AND POLICIES WILL NEED TO BE MADE AVAILABLE TO THOSE DEFENDING AND INTERESTED ISMAILIES)

HOWEVER THE EDITOR AS I HAVE COME TO EXPECT FROM HIM, ONLY WANTS SELECTIVE COMPLAINTS TO BE CONSIDERED AND HEARD BY THE LEADERSHIP. I THINK EDITOR, YOU HAVE NOT REAEARCHED OR READ FULLY (OR GIVEN ACCESS) TO THE CONSTITUTION AND ESPECIALLY THE RELATED RULES POLICIES AND GUIDELINES INCLUDING THE NATIONAL ONES FOR CANADA, KENYA, UK AND FRANCE WHERE ALL THE FOUR RESIDE (SS-MM-AJ- AND NT). THIS RAISES THE QUESTION WHERE WOULD SUCH A HEARING IF DECIDED BE HELD AND IF WILL BE OPEN ALLOWING ISMAILIES TO BE PRESENT AND WITNESSES TO GIVE EVIDENCE INCUDING LEADERS (: HOW MANY LEADERS OR MURIDS HAVE READ OR HAVE ACCESS TODAY IF THEY WANTED TO READ AND STUDY THEM.

SHOULD THE NCAB OR THE INTERNATIONAL ICAB CONSIDER THE COMPLAINTS AGAINST THE LEADERS IN QUESTION, AND AGAINST THE 2 MURIDS ? IF SO WHETHER NOW, OR AFTER THE COURT CASE HAS ENDED. SINCE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TOP LEADERS WHAT DOES THE CONSTITUTIONA AND THE RULES SAY ON THIS – FOR EXAMPLE DOES THE DICISION GO BACK UP TO DR SS AND THEN FOR HIM TO DECIDE IF HE WILL SEEK GUIDANCE FROM IMAM OR NOT ?

SINCE WE DO NOT KNOW “ALL” THE RULES AND POLICIES WHICH ARE INACCESSIBLE TO MOST, IT IS ALSO NOT POSSIBLE TO GIVE A FULLY INFORMED OPINION.

THIS CASE IS BEING CURRENTLY HANDLED DIRECTLY BY HAZAR IMAM. SO IF MHI IS HANDLING AN ISSUE THEN SHOULD MURIDS MAKE A COMPLAINT? IF SO, ( ACCORDING TO EDITOR THEY HAVE) , AND SO HAS ALNAZ AND NAGIB, THEN SHOULD A COMPLAINT BE ACCEPTED CONDSIDERED AND A FULL REPORT OF ALL THE FACTS AND RECOMMENDATIONS BE GIVEN TO HAZAR IMAM PERSONALLY ? MAY BE AND WE HOPE THIS IS WORK IN PROGRESS AS WE SPEAK.

SINCE THE LAW OF THE LAND PREVAILS SHOULD ICAB ADDRESS THESE COMPLAINTS BEOFORE THE END OF THE COURT CASE AND IF THERE IS THEN AN APPEAL TO THE COURT OF THE LAW OF THE LAND/S AGAINST THAT DECISION THEN WOULD THAT HAVE TO BE UPHELD AND ALL THE DISCLOSURES IN THOSE PROCEEDINGS BE DISCLOSED IN THE COURTS OF THE LAND/S.

MOST IMPORTANT WHAT DOES IMAM SAY -

· WHEN IMAM MET THEM ALL FOR 30 MINUTES ON 15 OCTOBER 2010, IMAM HAS DIRECTED CONCILIATION, SPEAK WITH ONE VOICE AND WORK TOGETHER.
· LEADERS AND IMAM DID NOT ALSO WANT EXCOMMUNICATION. IF THEY DID THEY WOULD HAVE DONE SO BEFORE THE LAWSUIT WAS FILED AND IMAM WOULD CERTAINLY NOT HAVE MET THEM FOR MORE THAN 5 MINUTES OR SAY “MAY I MAKE A SUGGESTION.
· IMAM WANTS THE HERITAGE WEBSITE TO CONTINUE. THEREFORE HE ALSO WANTS THE 2 MURIDS NOT TO BE EXCOMMUNICATED.
· IMAM DOES NOT WANTS THE BOOKS DESTROYED BUT RETAINED BY MURIDS WHO HAVE THEM. IF IMAM WANTED ALNAZ AND NAGIB TO BE EXCOMMUNICATED WOULD HE DIRECT THAT THIS BOOK SHOULD TO BE RETAINED BY MURIDS WHO HAVE THE BOOK.
· IMAM WISHES OUR CONCILIATION AND ARBITRATION BOARDS TO BE EXTENDED BEYOND ISMAILIES. THEREFORE THEY MUST BE, AND BE SEEN TO BE, FAIR AND JUST TO ALL AND TREAT ALL EQUALLY.
· ALL OF US NEED TO PONDER WHY IMAM DECIDED TO GIVE DIRECTIONS FOR 25 MINUTES ON 15 OCTOBER 2010 AND NOT GIVE PRE-DRAFTED INSTRUCTIONS FOR 5 MINUTES AND WHY IMAM DID NOT DISCUSS IN ADVANCE WHAT HE WAS GOING TO SAY WITH SS, MM OR MR GRAY.

I HOPE THERE WILL BE PROPER INSTITUTIONAL REVIEW, RESEARCH PROCESS AND AN IMPACT REPORT (INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL) WHICH IS INCLUSIVE, OBJECTIVE AND CONSULTATIVE. SUCH A REVIEW WILL ALSO HIGHLIGHT RELATED AND CRITICAL CHANGES NECESSARY.

* United Kingdom

@ Bloglaw
On November 9th, 2010 An ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

There have been many attacks at Vancouverite site on you, Nagib and Al Naz since long; however, recently, for last few days they are now severely attacking your each and every post. The reason being: They are unable to reply your posts logically.
Your each and every post to them is studded with full of logic and if some one wants to criticize them, it should be done with logic and point by point rather than using uncivilized, reviled and threatening language which they usually employ. Just perusing their last posts of few days, it is evident they want to demoralize you so much so that you stop sending them befitting replies. I foresee that they are fast building up pressure on you for that purpose. Any person of even ordinary intellect can easily deduce that their replies never matched your posts. Many questions you raised there were remained unanswered. Indeed, you have been doing excellent job. One person v/s so many dwarfs.

The difference between "only logic" verses "faithbased Knowledge
On November 10th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

The difference between “Only Logic” and “Faith based knowledge”
A faithful is going to make his point by knowledge-based facts and logic and he is always able to maintain the respect and integrity of everyone. He is secured he does not have to use substandard language to get his point through.

A faith based argument will always be creative and and will contribute to the knowledge and greater good of humanity.
“ Only logic” based argument is criticism and it is only detrimental.It cannot create anything.

That person might succeed in just asking what they think are logical questions but in fact they cannot reach to any answers or solutions. They do not contribute anything to the solution of the problem but in fact remove the solution further away. They may be able to shut off someone out of their nasty vocabulary but nothing is achieved.

So is the case with Bloglaw and other bloggers on the “other site”. Bloglaw has knowledge and logic that is faith based hence creative and purposeful and of great quality. Others are arguing out of hatred far from even normal standards of conversation. There is a difference of day and night

* United States

The defendants will not lose the case.
On November 9th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I strongly believe that the defendants will not lose the case.
Mawla himself appeared and validated to the defendants with various indicators that his divine self is with them."Khoda Hafiz".
Any believers with the strong belief that Hazar Imam is the manifest "Noor " of Allah will quickly agree with the above statement. (The true essence of Ismailism)

Those with half hearted faith and those who believe Mawla is just a very powerful heriditary progeny of the Prophet with a vast empire of Ismaili COUNCIL, LIF and AKDN and AKF and a bunch of powerful lawyers and every available resource at his exposure is bound to succeed, will not believe in the above statement.

The true momins believe that the above-mentioned institutions are just the exoteric manifestation and outcome of Mawla's apparent human existence, which are created to serve a greater good of the entire universe. But his divine manifestation in this world always was, always has been and always will be solely to protect his "true momins". He has no other goal in life but to help his momins. (Every scripture Geeta, Bhagvat, Pir's Ginans) validates this point,(including MHI's last GJ Farman Talika)

His purpose of every "Avatar" has always been to protect his dearest momins (True believers) and destroy the evil.
His high profile speeches and High profile Centers etc are his pass times and role model karma in the human role while he is achieving his intended divine goal.

So according to me, to all of us,MHI's last visit to Canada may seem like he traveled all the way to Canada for the prestigious lecture "LA Fontaine" that was only an excuse.He is above prestige and recognition , which are ordinary human desires. To appear for his true momins Nagib and Alnaz and give them necessary guidance and strength and provide opportunity to "the Leaders" to still correct themselves must have been his true goal. But our Mawla is very "packka" he "makes believe" everyone differently.

Hence no matter how brilliantly Mr. Gray plays his cards the defendants will win. They will not lose because "Aly" is with them. Defendants have no selfish motive they are fighting for the “greater good” of the Jamats worldwide (To make Their Mawla's Farmans available) His exoteric army (Law firm and LIF etc) is with "the Leaders" but it will prove totally weak in front of divine Mawla whose "Noor" is guiding the defendants who are strongly doing their Karma.

My views may not be in agreement with the vast majority of the jamat and they may want to kill me But so be it. If I do not post what I strongly feel, I might be doing a disservice to the almighty. Mawla is the only one to decide who is right and who is not. May be He is inspiring me to write which of course I “do not” know for sure.

I

* United States

@ Alibhai Jiwani
On November 10th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Yes, you are absolutely right. He is always there to help His Lovers in their dire need. Miracles did happen in the past and will also continue to happen. All one need is the right perception to observe and understand them.

THE HONUORABLE THING TO DO AS DIRECTED BY IMAM
On November 9th, 2010 @Alibhai (not verified) says:

You are right and right to share. Imame zaman reminded us and the world on 15 October in the Morning and the evening of that special day about the power of the divine. And to seek- share with love, humility and hospitality and not out of anxiety or fear (excerpt below from Imam e zaman - Caps supplied )

"..In sum, what WE MUST SEEK AND SHARE is what I have called “a cosmopolitan ethic,” a readiness to accept the complexity of human society. It is an ethic which balances rights and duties. It is an ETHIC FOR ALL PEOPLES. It will not surprise you to have me say that such an ethic can grow with enormous power OUT OF SPIRITUAL DIMENSIONS OF OUR LIVES . IN ACKNOWLEDGING THE IMMENSITY OF THE DIVINE WE WILL ALSO COME TO ACKNOWLEDGE OUR HUMAM LIMITATIONS AND INCOMPLETE NATURE OF HUMAN UNDERSTANDING.

In that light, the amazing diversity of Creation itself can be seen as a great gift to us – NOT A CAUSE for anxiety BUT A SOURCE of delight. Even the diversity of our religious interpretations can be greeted as SOMETHING TO SHARE WITH ONE ANOTHER - RATHER THAN SOMETHING TO FEAR .

In THIS SPIRIT OF HUMILITY AND HOSPITALITY – the stranger will be welcomed and respected, rather than subdued – or ignored.In the Holy Quran we read these words: “O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord who created you from a single soul …[and] joined your hearts in love, so that by His grace ye became brethren.”As we strive for this ideal, we will recognize that “the other” is both “present” and “different.” And we will be able to appreciate this presence – and this difference – as gifts that can enrich our lives.."

HOW PROFOUND INSPIRING AND DIVINE ! I pray that everyone will work together to end to this case as directed by Imam e Zaman.

* United Arab Emirates

very well said
On November 9th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Very well said, in serving Mowla, we should be happy, humble and confident. We may work hard and struggle knowing that sucess is in His hands.

Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah said:

"You should act in such a manner that wherever I go I get to hear
that the followers of the Aga Khan are like the angels. If you
act as such, only then your faith will be beneficial to you...
If you do bad deeds, you would be known as an evil person; if
you do good deeds, you would be known as a pious person, and
everyone would say that the religion of the Khojas – the followers of the
Aga Khan is very good."

* Canada

Why are SS and MM being so cruel
On November 9th, 2010 Iman (not verified) says:

When the defendants have agreed that the Imam has got the copyright over his Farmans then why are SS and MM insisting on them (defendants) to accept copyright infringement. I think it is purely to show their power to the Jamat.

How can these leaders be so cruel because they know what the consequences will be for Nagib and Alnaz if they accept what the two leaders want. And why should the defendants accept it even. Copyright issue was raised only after this case. Before that there were no written guidelines about copyright. So I think SS and MM are being quite unreasonable by asking them to accept copyright infringement.

* United Kingdom

The curtain has lifted
On November 7th, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhyaa (not verified) says:

Oh my God, it should all be clear now to the entire jamat worldwide. With MHI's mulaqaat with the defendants, and the reports by the defendants of what He said and commented, it should all be very clear now as to what has transpired. And the only acceptable reaction is horrified anger. MHI's comments such as "I wish we could speak with the same voice", "I am not aware of any website issues", "Why can you not work together", "those who have bought the books can keep them", "only return the undistributed books", "I wish to protect my ginans", "the imam annotates the firmans but does not change them", all these and other comments and happenings, such as Mr Gray snatching the letter from the Imam's hand, have very very meaningful and far-reaching undercurrents.
All those with even a bit of intelligence will have realized through all these comments as to what some people are capable of and how much love and respect they have for the imam.

The defendants to-date have been much ostracized. Even their families and children have not been left alone. Now that the truth is out, why is everyone quiet?! Why is there no indignation against how little love and respect senior leaders have for the imam and for their audacious behaviour in using the imam's name and also in the presence of the imam Himself?!
Shame on all of us now if we don't, with one voice, condemn this behaviour and demand their resignations!!
The jamat needs to wake up and fight against those who have accorded such shabby treatment towards our most loving and dearest imam for whom we can even give up our lives!!

@Zeenarara
On November 7th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad. Zeenatara, well said. I wonder what acion have those leaders taken, who were present in the meeting when this incident took place, "Mr Gray snatching the letter from Our Beloved Hazar Imam's hand"? That was very disrespectful". "Thank you.

* Canada

MORE MIS-INFORMATION OR SPECULATION
On November 7th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Comments by News Editor Vancouverite November 6, 2010 “…..we’re dealing with a different kind of beast here. And I have impressed upon our leaders the penalty for appeasement and timidity in handling this situation. I am now hoping that leadership will dispense with the niceties and move on with vigour in both seeking a legal response and an internal constitutional response to this unbelievably atrocious attack on HH, his appointed leaders, the system of justice and just plain human decency. No right thinking person can now say that we did not try every available means prior to taking vigorous action within the confines of the law. And I think there is a realization of this at the very top too. I think that sense of frustration has now reached the top of the Ismaili leadership and I think from now on there will be no more conversations.

RESPONSE BY BLOGLAW – Editor; You say there have been conversations, niceties by the leaders and every means available has been tried to conciliate and settle this lawsuit.
Have there really been ANY conversations or meetings between Leaders and Alnaz/Nagib after 15 October 2010. Since you say you are in contact with top Leaders, ask them again what conversations or meetings have taken place, and what other means they have tried if any? Also what are the niceties you claim were extended by the Leaders to Alnaz and Nagib? NONE from what I have read so far and based on what Dr SS and MM said on 15th Oct 2010.

Earlier you said if Leaders had sat down together immediately after the meeting on 15th October then issues could have been resolved and the consent order filed. There was no meeting. Do you have new factual information from the leaders, and if so, please do report the facts.

I appreciate you say, you are only THINKING and so speculating what leaders may be thinking and you are HOPING they will have no more conversations, and leaders will excommunicate them etc. I am sorry inaccurate information leads to inaccurate conclusions. Hence your totally wrong unsubstantiated statement that no right thinking person can now say every available means was tried. That is not responsible reporting or journalism. I refer you to Hazar Imams speech of 15 October 2010. The section where Hazar Imam is talking about spreading of such mis-information, dis- information and resulting distortions.

Can also please also find out what is the precise reason delaying the signing & filing of the consent order. Also why an admission of infringement is so critical, notwithstanding Imam’s directions. According to my analysis posted earlier it is not a critical need. There has been no reasoned response so far. I assume you, as a journalist have asked the Leaders and or Mr Gray to comment.

* United Kingdom

@Bloglaw re: above post of Nov. 7th
On November 9th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for your perseverance in replying to those posts, Bloglaw. Mowla sukhi raakhè. Ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Bloglaw
On November 7th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Mr. Bloglaw. I wonder whether editors from other sites have discussed with the leaders, the incident that took place in the meeting, when "Mr. Gray snatched letter from Our Beloved Hazar Imam's hands"?. I am sure we all Ismailis find this "very disrespectful". Also, are these editors going to discuss this issue on their websites? Thank you.

* Canada

Vancouverite Editor speak for Dr SS and MM
On November 7th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

YAM if you read the last 4 comments of Bloglaw in that website and that editors comments it is very clear that he speaks to the leaders In question and therefore his replies are based on what the leaders are telling him. As he said no right minded and thinking responsible and especially and Ismaili journalist and reporter would not ask and report what happened in that meeting and what is the difference between them and why is there a critical need for an admission of infringement. this has been excellently analysed and creased by Bloglaw .

* United Arab Emirates

Heritage Website
On November 6th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

My friend has been in offensive mood for last few months since the filing of the case. From the beginning, he used to believe that the case has been filed by HI and for which, instead of giving logical reasoning, he was heavily relying upon some press reports and words of Mr. Gray and Dr. SS. Many a times he used very hash language against Nagib and Al Naz and supporting each and every word, every action and every move of Gray and SS.

When the defendants moved their ‘discovery’ application in the court, he almost blew off and declared that the court would never sanction/approve ‘discovery’, as Gray is such a lawyer that he will turn that application into pieces. But when even Ottawa judge upheld the discovery granted by prothonotary, he became so much furious that he even reviled the defendants and termed them as renegades. He further uttered that,” Not only would these two renegades but their families as well as their supporters also go to hell. In no case HI will appear before them and grant any Mulakat even for a minute to these renegades, instead He will appear directly in the court and will present his identity as the plaintiff.

However, when HI presented himself for the meeting and granted Mulakat for extra 25 minutes, besides 5 minutes of ‘recording’, even then he tried to justify the snatching of Nagib’s letter from HI’ hands. Being neighbors and in the same profession, we are good friends. However, our views on this topic are poles apart. He used to debate almost daily about this topic with me, and most of the time in his mothers’ presence.

I told him: “Let Gray and his team think that they have done a good job by selective recording, but you will see that they will not get any advantage out of it. As HI is now officially aware of the issue, and at the right time he will certainly come again for mediation.”

I was very much pleased that some few days back when his mother gave him following advice in my presence: “Do not attack these two Murids. I know that they have attained much spiritual progress and just see how much Heritage site has been providing wonderful materials about our Satpanth. Very few Ginans are ever published by Ismailia Association/ Tariqa Board, but you will find all Ginans and their meanings on this web site that also include Ruhani Ginans and History of our Imams. Don’t listen to leaders in the matter of our Tariqa, just live by Farmans.”

@ Asif
On November 7th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

I agree Asif. Just going some posts at other site including that of the news editor, I just shudder at the thought as to what would happen if the defendants lost the case in the court. It seems these people are ready to pounce on Nagib, Al Naz, rabiya, Yasmin, Alibhai Jiwani and others just like the vultures, vampires and wolves pounce on their preys.
But as you have said, since HI is now officially aware of what is going on, He certainly would not leave the two Murids at the mercy of trio (SS.MM and Gray) who too fueled by egocentricity, vengeance, and retribution wants to suck each drop of blood out of Nagib and Al Naz.
One should not remain in illusion. He is always there , at the right time, to help out His Gopis, His Nuseris, His Fidais and His Lovers(313 Momins).
Next, Nagib and Al Naz have already gave their version of off the record discussion of 25 minutes, and now many members of Jamat have started realizing how our top leaders behaved with our Maula, and yet these leaders have maintained mum. This itself proves that off the record materials provided by defendants is all authentic. Otherwise why should they maintain total silence about all such important observations?

@Kassamali
On November 8th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Mr Kassamali. Thanks for your interesting comments.

If Our Beloved Hazar Imam wanted to talk to Nagib and Alnaz just for 5 minutes, He would have done so, and given them instructions and gone, but He was with them for 30 minutes and He was so "gracious", because he knows each and every Murid of His, He also knows their intentions. Nagib and Alnaz are His good Murids, and Mowla loves all His Murids. Whoever is trying to attack verbally these Murids or anyone else, are "hurting Our Mowla".

You have stated in your comments that I can also be pounced by some people on other sites. Mr Kassamali, I always believe one thing that, only Allah and my Mowla knows my intentions, and They can only judge me. If people wish to say anything about me, or attack me verbally, it's ok, because my "goona are washed away", and I just pray for them.

Instead of attacking verbally Spiritual Brothers and Sisters, why can't people who are also hurting our Mowla, because of their behaviour, leave issues of this Lawsuit in His hands, who has already intervened, and Inshallah He will take care of everything.

I have mentioned this before in my previous postings on this Great Site, that we are just discussing for changes to be made in the policies of our leaders, this would be better for our coming generations also.

We all are Spiritual Children of Our Beloved Hazar Imam, "why can't we be united and work together", as He always says.
Thank You.

* Canada

Spiritual health and education
On November 5th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Many people dedicate their spare time or full time to serve Mowla's health and education institutions. They follow Mowla's wish and Farman to render service to the jamat and the Imam. And they serve as Mowla says without any hope of title and expecting nothing in return except Mowla's happiness and blessings (at least they should).

Nagib and Alnaz, and all those who helped in gathering, compiling, distributing, defending, reading, analyzing, preserving and sharing Mowla's Farmans did a service to the spiritual health and education of the Ismaili Jamat. They offered a confidential, loyal and utmost service to the work of the Imam of the time and to the spiritual quality of life of the Jamat.

Mowlana Hazar Imam said to leaders in Gilgit 1987:

" I would like you to know that the Imam has placed great trust and great confidence in you....But remember that authority has with it duty and the need to serve. There is no authority in My mind which is healthy if it is absolute and it does not take place within a philosophical and a social context. And, therefore, in your leadership to the Jamat, be considerate, be humble, be hard working and share with the Jamat their concerns and their needs. So that they come to you not out of duty and obligation, but they come to you out of affection and respect and love and admiration."

* Canada

To Farmanbardari re: above post of Nov. 5
On November 8th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, brother Farmanbardari, Nagib and his team have done an outstanding job.
And the farman you quoted is such a balm on the hearts of those who sometimes shake their head at the way some leaders do their work, wondering whether they (=the leaders) ever had guidelines or not about the way to perform their service...Thank you.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Opportunity NOT missed !!!!
On November 5th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Very well said Alnaz, bravo, We continue to pray for you and Nagib

* Canada

WHY INSIST ON INFRINGEMENT - SELF INTEREST OR A CRITICAL NEED !
On November 4th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

If MHI had personally instructed Mr Gray to file the lawsuit, then on 15th Oct 2010, why would Imam spend 25 minutes with the defendants and not one minute to say he is the plaintiff, there were no forgeries, he would like allegations withdrawn and a Judgment agreed. Leaders need to ponder over this question and directions given by Hazar Imam on 15 Oct 2010.

The main disagreement in the 2nd consent order drafted by Mr Gray and what Nagib-Alnaz signed, is that Mr Gray/Dr SS and MM, want Alnaz and Nagib to admit that they infringed copyright (according to Alnaz)
So Let us examine reasons the why Mr Gray/SS/MM should be asking Alnaz and Nagib to admit they Infringed copyright;

a. Alnaz and Nagib have never questioned and have already admitted Imam’s has copyright over farmans.
b. Imam has registered copyright of His Farmans in Canada after the start of this lawsuit.
c. Imam has given consent for books which have been already distributed to remain with murids.
d. Since Imam has consented. There is therefore no reason why legally and for the purpose of a consent order this consent cannot be a continuing consent which was settled by conciliation and agreement at the behest of the Imam.
e. Imam has no issue therefore also with integrity or authenticity of farmans in the book.
f. By not admitting any infringement by Alnaz & Nagib, our mehmani rite and ceremonies are also preserved, remain intact & hooured.
g. Imam has accepted Alnaz was not involved with the printing, publication or any infringement. Why should he be asked to admit infringement
h. Imams copyright is no less or more protected if Alnaz and Nagib admitted infringement or did not. So why the need.
i. Imam, did meet for 25 minutes, wanted conciliation, and directed everyone to work together, and Imam will meet Alnaz and Nagib again. Imam wanted all to speak in one voice.

In view of the above the only reason why Mr Gray Dr SS and MM are trying to get an admission of infringement from Alnaz and Nagib can only be motivated by self interest and or to boost personal ego’s and or other such reasons. There is no critical need or benefit for the Imam or the community in asking for an admission of an infringement for the consent order. If there is r I have missed something, then I invite leaders in question, Alnaz, Nagib, or Mr Gray to share them with us, and or to comment on what was said in those 25 minutes ? According to the defendants the following is a summary of what was said;

1 Nagib said he is seeking forgiveness and only Directions, Instructions and Orders from Imam. He did not exercise his law of the land right to question or cross examine Hazar Imam
2 Imam wants them to admit copyright over His farmans and added that this is the honourable thing to do
3 Imam will meet Alnaz and Nagib going forward.
4 Imam annotates His Farmans but does not change any Farmans
5 Imam offered the annotated Farmans to Alnaz and Nagib if they wanted them.
6 Imam said that when Farmans were changed in the past , it has hurt dais
7 Imam wishes to protect Farmans from being changed, and to protect Ginans.
8 Imam confirmed that a murid [referring to Karim Alibhay] presented him the first book during a mehmani ceremony in Montreal in 1992, and Imam responded by encouraging him to continue the work;
9 Mr. Tajdin informed Imam that he had 200 books remaining in Kenya and if he can return them to ITREB in Kenya. Imam agreed.
10 Alnaz sought further clarification and Imam confirmed again that the distributed copies of the books can remain with whomever they have been distributed to, and that only the undistributed books are to be handed to ITREB
11 Dr Sachedina objected to this and suggested that he could send an announcement to be read in all Jamatkhanas for all copies distributed to be returned. Imam refused and responded to him by saying “it would be nice if we spoke with the same voice”; {meaning Dr Sachedina was contradicting Imam’s decision,. Instead of asking for guidance he is contradicting Imam’s wishes”}
12 Imam suggested that Alnaz and Nagib withdraw allegations of fraud made against His staff, and officers.
13 Imam confirmed that Farmans of previous Imams and the copyright in them also belongs to the Imam;
14 Mr. Manji asked Imam to direct Alnaz and Nagib to cease the heritage web site activities. Imam refused. Mr. Manji then said to Imam that the web sites causes a lot of problems and confusion in the Jamats and has a name similar to Ismaili.org. Imam responded to him by saying that Imam is not aware of web issues and “it would be nice if we spoke with one voice”, and added “why cannot you work together?”
15 Mr. Tajdin informed His Highness that he took full responsibility for the publication of the books and that Jiwa had nothing to do with publishing of the books, to which Imam responded that he knew “Mr. Jiwa” was not involved in the publication of the books;

According to Mr Gray whatever was said off the record is legally privileged. Therefore legally he will not attempt to agree what was said off the record or for it to be admitted in court. However by changing his first draft he is accepting that his first draft was not in accordance what was agreed, which justifies the resulting disputes.

Will Dr SS and MM take the same stand as Mr Gray or will they do the right and honourable thing by sitting down with the leadership and together with Alnaz/Nagib ensure ALL directions given by Hazar Imam are fully shared, discussed, agreed and followed.

* United Kingdom

Here is the guidelines that court sets
On November 5th, 2010 sadrudin (not verified) says:

Oral directions received from the Court: Mireille Tabib, Prothonotary dated 02-NOV-2010 directing that There is a disagreement between the parties as to what transpired in the course of the attendance of the Plaintiff to be examined on discovery.

Notes from Admin:

The full text is on Docket.

* United States

@bloglaw, regarding Nov 4th comment
On November 5th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Excellent summary and analysis.

* United States

Lawyers...
On November 4th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Some people at other site used to praise Gray as HI’s lawyer and used to write that,’ He talks frequently to HI during the case proceeding’. If that was so did he not know how to behave and to respect such a personality, and why did he snatched that letter from His hands? What a crass behavior by this so called a senior lawyer! How can one believe that he was appointed by HI? Had he been appointed by HI as His lawyer, instead of snatching the letter from Him, he would have gracefully requested,’ His Highness, please do not read this letter, it would weaken our case’. How could any lawyer annoy his own client of top most international personality who pays him a hefty fee? Is there, then, any doubt left as to who hired him?Each and every thing gets unfolded gradually for wise people to know one truth after another. Remain watchful, many more will follow.

Initially he tried to prove that he was appointed by HI just by showing a photograph. He failed there. That was his first lie. Next, he employed all his experience, all his talent and all his energy to thwart the discovery request of the defendants. And here he failed miserably. One can easily understand that his one defeat after another at the hands of so called ordinary people (defendants), was too much for him and he was very much annoyed. Therefore, he used his cunning tactics, when he realized that Nagib’s letter of 4th January in the hands of HI would be a great set back to trio, he instantly snatched the letter from HI’s hands.

Will Dr.SS and Mr. MM advise their lawyer, at least next time, as how to behave with HI? And even at the meeting why did they not take objection and pointed out this great blunder of their lawyer? What kind of Ismails are they? But why should they do it, when they themselves were rude to HI?

Pursuing the Case Further
On November 4th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

Gray has craftily recorded only those things which suits him and hence it would be easy for him to establish that Agakhan indeed is the plaintiff and that He wanted allegation of forgery be withdrawn by the defendants. In the recording Nagib waw recorded saying,’ Sorry, I withdraw allegation of forgery’.All such things will be thoroughly exploited by Gray with his usual style.
Nagib, Al Naz: ‘Please be careful of this trio. They can go to any extent to win the case. Though they were not successful until the stage of cross examinations, but they are expert in surreptitious and cunning moves. We all know that you have worked very hard during all these seven months, but now you will be required to work even much more hard, for obvious reasons that they are not to be trusted at any stage.’
Lastly, our prayers are as usual are with you. May Maula guide and help you at each and every day and each and every step.

"Make Hazar Imam Happy"
On November 4th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad. Our Beloved Hazar Imam has sacrificed His entire life for the Ismaili Jamat, and after 53 years of His Imamat, He has to remind the leaders again that "it would be nice if we spoke with one voice, why can't you work together?" It's very sad. Thank you.

* Canada

letters
On November 3rd, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Thank you Admin for the letters. Why am I not suprised about all this. Gray SS continue their manipulation, I have a question for Vazir Sachedina, 'aren't you afraid Vazir Saheb about your actions? Are you defying Mowla, you were present in the meeting, why don't you want to close this shameful case for everybody. Why do you keep lying''. if you continue like this instead of resolving peacefully and honourably this lawsuit with the defendants as Mowla said, the jamat will never believe you and will never believe in you any more. This is very very vey sad. Mowla subudi diye ne rahem kare.

* Canada

Meeting with the Imam
On November 4th, 2010 sadrudin (not verified) says:

Imam already knew, what is going to happen after that meeting/discovery and therefore, HE already forcasted the next meeting! Just be patience, Imam will follow up on this issue with HIS leaders and bring the matter to conclusion.

* United States

@ALIBHAI JIWANI AND ALNAZ
On November 3rd, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

IF MR TAJDIN & MR ALNAZ WERE TO SIGN WHATEVER IS PRESENTED TO THEM IN THE NAME OF MOWLA, DESPITE THE WORDS OF MOWLA HEARD BY THEIR OWN EARS, THEN WHAT HAVE THEY BEEN FIGHTING FOR ALL THIS TIME?

IT APPEARS THAT THE LAWYER, SS AND MM ARE UP GAMES TO PROTECT THEIR REPUTATIONS AGAINST THE WISE COUNSEL OF MOWLA, WHO TREATED THIS MATTER WITHOUT HOSTILITY, WITH DIGNITY AND WITH FORGIVENESS.

TO TAKE THE POINT OF ALIBHAI JIWANI, MOWLA KNOWS EVERYTHING. HE MUST HAVE KNOWN THAT THE LAWYER AND COMPANY WILL TRY TO MANIPULATE NAQIB AND ALNAZ AND THAT THEY IN TURN WILL RESIST. IN THIS SEQUENCE OF EVENTS, MOWLA EXPRESSED HIS CLEAR DESIRE BY CHOOSING NOT TO INTERVENE.

OUR SEWADARIS HAVE NO CHOICE BUT REMAIN ON THE SIRATUL MUSTAQEEM. THEY MUST CONTINUE TO EXPOSE ALL THE SHENANIGANS OF THESE MANIPULATORS OF MOWLA’S WILL UNTIL DIRECTED OTHERWISE BY THE IMAM HIMSELF.

BY THE WAY, WHEN NAQIB SAID HE WOULD GIVE HIS TAN, MAN AND DHAN TO MOWLA, HE DID SO CONVINCED THAT HIS MOWLA WOULD NEVER DESTROY HIM FOR SOMETHING DONE WITH HONESTY AND FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE JAMAAT. MOWLA REWARDED HIS FAITH BY OFFERING HIM MORE OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE THE JAMAAT. IF MOWLA HIMSELF HAD DEMANDED EVERYTHING FROM HIM, HE WOULD COMPLY AS HE WOULD SURELY BE REWARDED IN THIS AND THE NEXT WORLD. HIS FAITH IN THE IMAM, WHILST FOOLHARDY FOR AN ORIDNARY DEFENDENT, IS NOT UNKNOWN IN A TRUE MOMIN.

BUT HE NEVER THOUGHT THAT CLEVER, HIGH PRICED LAWYERS IN THE EMPLOY OF AMBITIOUS, INCOMPETANT BUT ULTIMATELY FAITHLESS LEADERS COULD DEMAND THAT HE SIGN AWAY HIS LIFE’S WORK IN THE JAMAAT. BECAUSE AS WE ALL KNOW, ONCE HE SIGNS ANYTHING LIKE WHAT THEY WANT, THEY WILL USE THEIR CONTROL OF THE LIF TO RUTHLESSLY CONDEMN HIM IN FRONT OF THE REST OF THE JAMAAT, WHO WOULD BE IGNORANT OF THEIR GAMES.

INCIDENTALLY, WHY WOULD ALNAZ HAVE TO SIGN ANY CONSENT IF MOWLA, WHO IS THE PLAINTIFF, ACKNOWLEDGED THAT HE KNEW THAT ALNAZ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PUBLICATION AND HE DID WHAT HUNDREDS OF ISMAILIS DID IN GOOD FAITH.......DISTRIBUTE THE BOOK TO FAMILY AND FRIENDS?

AND SO IT IS OK TO KEEP THE FARMAN BOOKS (AND PASS THEM TO FAMILY) FOR EVERYONE BUT NOT ALNAZ?

IT GETS BIZARRE…….

* Seychelles

Heritage WebSite
On November 3rd, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Congratulation. This WebSite can not be closed. Though they have failed this in future, they are sure to try again for banning it. But ‘રામ રાખે તેને કોણ ચાખે?’ ( How can they be successful when Maulana’s blessings are with Heritage.
So far Davids have been winning one battle after another against Goliath, and we are sure in future too, you will continue until the final battle is won.
Continue your struggle; our prayers are with you.

Letters from Alnaz and Nagib on the Court Docket
On November 2nd, 2010 heritage says:

As users are asking to read the letters from Nagib and Alnaz on the court docket, the latest have been attached on the following link:

A. Various Court Filings

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

What is Hazar Imam's message?
On November 3rd, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

Here are 2 murids who have been standing up for the sanctity of Imam's Word, and for what they believe Hazar Imam told them at Mehmani. These 2 Murids obviously do not trust the leadership, and many have understood their reasons. They doubt that Hazar Imam is behind the Statement of Claim.

On Oct 15, Hazar Imam appears, he knows the words to say that would clear all doubt.

Instead, Hazar Imam proposes a conciliatory approach, and starts correcting the misconceptions about Farmans, Mehmani, etc, and He lets these 2 murids see how Mr Gray snatches the paper that Hazar Imam was reading out of His Hand, He lets them see how Mr Sachedina interrupts and disagrees with Mowla. He lets them see how Manji interrupts and disagrees with Mowla. He lets them see how Gray later tries to propose a draft containing the opposite of what Imam said.

What message did the 2 murids actually get? Can this situation give the 2 murids more confidence in the Leadership? Should they still follow what they heard Hazar Imam say? Or should they consent to something different because it would be easier or because they fear these bold leaders who are allowed to breach protocol and civility towards Hazar Imam?

Ideally, all those present at the meeting should review exactly what Mowla said during the whole meeting, put it on paper, and end the case with this document. It may require concessions from everyone present including, as quoted in Hazar Imam's speech that night, to "work with people we may not particularly like", but how honourable it would be!

DID LEADERS LISTEN TO THE ENTIRE RECORDING AGAIN?
On November 2nd, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

The entire meeting was recorded and the recording is available. A simple process of listening & sharing the full recording could have avoided delay, costs, confusion and embarassment both internal and exteranal..

Can Librarian Umed obtain and post the 2 consent drafts of Mr Gray and the one signed by Nagib/ Alnaz ? Or a summary or list of precisely what is being disputed by Mr Gray

* United Arab Emirates

Recording
On November 3rd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

No the off the record conversation is not recorded. The rules governing these issues say, firstly, that only parties can attend; secondly, court reporter can go off the record only if all parties (participating in the discoveries) must consent before a reporter can off the record.

The reporter was chosen by Mr. Gray (ordered by court) but normally the examiner (in this case Nagib) would retain a reporter. The reporter seemed very close to mr. Gray and should not have gone off the record.

It is not surprising to me that Mr. Gray went off the record, and that the reporter chose to abide by his unilateral demands.

Unfortunately, I did not believe that they would play games but in hindsight I should have known better not to trust them.

One example of the issues of concern, they are insisting that we agree to infringement of copyright. I can't agree because MHI did confirm that books can be kept by the people. There can't be consent and infringement at the same time.

* Canada

you can agree if this is the only major difference
On November 3rd, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

Alnaz If the major difference is to admit to Imams copyright. Can you not say on 15 October 2010 it was agreed the defendants admit without reservation that the plaintiff has copyright to farmans and that 200 books which have not been distributed will be handed over to ITREB Nairobi and the plaintiff consents to the rest of the books which were printed and distributed. It is further agreed and the defendants undertake that the defendants will not print and distribute Farmans in the future without prior consent from the plaintiff.

unless there are other major differences, I hope and pray you and Nagib will find a way to agree a consent order to end this case We all appreciate if you were not in presence of Mawla, you would have complained on the record,and stopped Mr Gray,s legal unilaterality etc etc . Mr Gray is trying to do his legal best legally for his client and that should not surprise anyone.

* United Arab Emirates

The defendant have not put
On November 3rd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The defendant have not put anywhere in Court that they do not agree with the Copyright of the Imam, they have always agreed to this so there is no major difference as anything else is small stuff which should not be any hinder to all parties sinning of a Consent Judgment in the format acceptable to all parties. .

An Urgent and eager plea to both the defendants.
On November 2nd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

After reviewing the latest posted letters and information regarding discovery I think wisdom lies in defendants just submitting to the will of Mawla.

I understand that Nagib and Alnaz were so humbled and overwhelmed by the fact they were in the presence of Mawla and his body language was so affectionate that they were engrossed in his Noor (being true momins).I think they forgot the legality of the situation and Gray and the leaders took every advantage of it by working it in their favor.

But hey! remember in your original affidavits you had agreed that only if you know Hazar Imam is the real plaintiff you
will surrender all what you have and own.( You cannot go back from that)

So let Gray and leaders feel they are winners but Mawla has given you great Acknowledgements and promise.
You will get plenty of opportunity to ask Mawla about your disappointments and injustice in future ( Inshaallah in very near future) He is aware of every single thing . So please do not fight about anything anymore even if there is obvious contradiction , just accept.And See the Miracles in your life. The Lord him self has said "Khoda Hafiz" means his divine self will protect you! What more do you want? These words will take your generations long way protected by him dearly.
It is like Nusseiri hearing From eternity"He is a true momin" So Alnaz and Nagib, brothers , please please I beg you just agree to everything . You have experienced and personally known that in true spirit Mawla is with you.

In the physical realm if you had hypothetically won but if Mawla was indeed not happy with you would that be any way be better? Not in a million years. So be happy and facilitate whatever it takes to end the lawsuit He has expressed His wish and you must expedtiously fulfll His wish there lies the wisdom and farmanbardari. You might lose the good will of jamat completely if you do not. However right you may be.

You really do not have any grounds now to continue. Mawla will apreciate your generosity. and that will establish your merits for future association to work with him Leaders will get what they deserve of their Karma. Leave that to Mawla. You are basically momins and this is all about faith and love and not the legalities Otherwise it is now on going to be heresay and very petty. Do not place your self so low after mawla gave you great acknowledgements.

* United States

Urgent plea misplaced!!!
On November 2nd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

With respect, I cannot agree with you.

Ask yourselves why did MHI start by saying, may I make a SUGGESTION .....

Was he issuing a direction? An order? A command?

Had he wanted to do so he could have done so specially as Nagib said he was seeking guidance and direction. MHI knew what we were fighting for.

His suggestion was temporary - Heritage did not report the whole sentence said by MHI. After saying may I make suggestion as reported, after saying about copyright and returning books (to ITREB) MHI adds immediately, this is the honorable thing to do, and I will meet you to deal with these issues.

He of course meant outside the court process, so this was solution to resolve the legal case.

But he suggested, now why would we agree and settle whatever is asked of us? Indeed why? The whole thing would be moot and useless.

MHI did not say settle at any cost, whatever is asked of you, no.

So I intend to continue the fight for the Imam and the jamat, your suggestion is plain and wrong and that attitude is what fuels the corrupt leaders, they know Jamats will turn the cheek and close their eyes to continue saying their prayers which enables them to continue their destructive path.

You have ignored the 1992 Farman I just mentioned a day or so ago, seek accountability and answerability which is what we are doing.

* Canada

@ Alnaz :You know it better.
On November 4th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Oct 15th 2010: An exceptional meeting of Hazar Imam and 2 defendants and 2 leaders.
An unusual perspective:

A Repeat episode of Scenario from Kurushetra and Writing of Geeta (apx 5000 years ago)

Last night I happen to hear a Hindu professor on T.V. regarding critical analysis of Characters of Arjun and Lord Krishna in reference to “Bhagvat Geeta”
Which is a very vital religious scripture for believers of Lord Krishna.
It is basically a very intellectual dialogue between lord Krishna and Arjun, his favorite devotee, friend and a cousin, which is widely used as a religious teaching for moral and ethical issues in life.
The dialogue took place in the center of the battlefield of Kurukshetra with 2 opposite armies present on either side and Arjun on the chariot with his charioteer being Lord Krishna in the middle visible by both the parties when Lord Krishna shows His “Noorani” swarup to Arjun who was so very much distraught by the situation of the war that was soon to begin
.
Arjun was in a dilemma and wanted to back off from war because he did not think it was appropriate for him to kill his teachers, elders and other family members who were in the opposite party to regain his own rights and kingdom and was asking Krishna who was his charioteer why should he fight? He did not care for kingdom and power. He wanted to stop everything.
He was full of emotions lost his courage.

Lord Krishna however persuaded him and encouraged him in a very exemplary and logical and thoughtful manner why it was so important for him to fight to protect the rights of entire state and defeat the cruelty and injustice. It was his ethical duty to fight even though it would mean a lot of deaths and devastation. It was important to end evil and establish truth and justice. (Geeta is the elaborate dialogue in the form of guidance) Arjun was the gem of a human being and was the most appropriate guy for the purpose.

It was basically a war of truth and lie, Justice vs. Injustice and good vs. Evil
The character of Krishna (8th Avatar Manifestation of Hazar Imam per our Pir Saderdin Ginanic philosophy) is very charismatic and extremely intelligent and logical. The perfect man of the time just likes of our Hazar Imam.

Arjun being a regular human being occasionally depicts multiple personality trait, basically an exceptional warrior very courageous and skilled but a family man with soft heart, a true devotee of Krishna hence was overwhelmed with fear, emotions, sorrow and inability to cope with the thought of loss of so many family members and a lot of others whom he loved. He wanted to back off at the nick of the time in the battlefield for fear of extreme destruction.

However Lord Krishna Pushed him in to the apparently tough and extremely difficult war of fighting the mighty and skilled army of cruel and corrupt Kauravas and they had an extremely violent and tough war but eventually Pandavas (Arjun) won because Lord was with them and established the victory of truth over false and Good over evil.

The meeting of Hazar Imam and Guidance in the legal setting between 2 opposite parties and Gray (The mean uncle of Duryodhan)
A very exceptional situation somehow mimics the settings of “Farmans of Geeta”
Nagib is the courageous and a very smart yet extremely devoted Momin of Mawla simulating the character of Arjun really encouraged by Mawla to continue the fight of good over evil?( Though not in clear words)( may be Nagib felt the words)
As long as Mawla is with him he will continue to succeed that is a guarantee.
May be Mawla appeared just to encourage and guide him for continuing his tough fight against the unjust and manipulative leaders?)
Only Nagib and Alnaz experienced the guidance in his “Noor” even in just few words and indicators.
It is beyond my ordinary intellect to understand the exact purpose and interpretation.

P.S.
With Global Center of Pluralism opened by our own Imam I thought it would not be totally inappropriate to talk about Hindu Scripture, since it is a part of our own history and Hazar Imam encourages us to obtain Knowledge even from China if found there.

* United States

Arjun's story did not end there..
On November 4th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

Arjun's and the Pandav's story did not end there. According to ismaili Pirs, the story is continued in the Granth "Boudh Avtar".

The Pandavs, even after victory, were told by the people and brahmins (the religious leadership) that they had done something awful and that they had to do an elaborate Yagn (Majlis) to get forgiven for their major sin of gaining victory over their elders. They felt remorse, and even if they had acted on the order of the Divine Manifestation (Krishna), they decided to give in and ask forgiveness for their actions.

Before the end of their Yagn, the Divine appeared in His next manifestation (Boudh Avtar) and told them that all their good deeds and the spiritual fruits of their struggle had gotten wiped out because it was a lapse of Faith and an insult that they had asked forgiveness for an action ordered by their Lord.

They recognized the next manifestation of the lord, got answers to some existential questions, and, in order to redeem themselves, they had to get all the people to scorn them by parading with a slaughtered cow...

It is indeed hard to follow Imam's command in front of the pressures of the world, even the Pandavs succumbed!

That's the point. Now that
On November 2nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

That's the point. Now that the Defendants know for sure that the Imam did not initiate this lawsuit and they have first hand instructions from The Imam Himself, they know exactly what to do. Their task is easy as they just have to follow what the Imam said. They will obviously not contradict what the Imam ordained.

The Imam gave an opportunity to those who made the mistake to initiate the lawsuit in His name to come out of this mess honourably but they are refusing so it will be at their own expense. There is a passage in the Book of Proverbs about those who dig their hole and fall in it...

Missed opportunity
On November 4th, 2010 Chai (not verified) says:

I'm just curious, the Nagib had a wonderful opportunity to know that for himself, but chose not to ask HH if he was indeed the real plaintiff... why? Would this have not put any doubts in his mind to rest?
I hope this matter gets resolved in a such a way that is fair for everyone.

* Canada

Opportunity NOT missed !!!!
On November 5th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

I think Nagib did the right thing. Why ask Hazar Imam if He is the real plaintiff. Let Him say so Himself.

The jamats were told by way of a terrible announcement that Nagib and his group were terrible nafarmanis - refused to obey two letters directly written to him by the Imam, one from His brother, prompting the Imam to bring a lawsuit as “a sad last resort”, an refused to accept an affirmation, and then two guys (Nagib and me) had the audacity to DEFEND against the Imam !!! Wow, when I made a statement to the Law Times that we would defend the lawsuit, I was inundated with telephone calls from so many, emails, etc., all because we were going to defend AGAINST the Imam. Please, everyone told me, stop making a mockery of yourself and make the Imam become angry at you, he will excommunicate you, etc., etc. It took an enormous amount of inner faith to remain firm in the belief that the Imam was not behind this despite the optics of it all.

Finally the Imam and his two murids (according to others, two satans) are finally face to face. Finally the Imam had an opportunity tell Nagib (and me) how angry He was with us and to tell us to cease and desist our continued defiance and nafarmani, and to correct our mistaken beliefs.

So what does the Imam do!! Tell us to stop doing all the nasty things that we are doing? Stop defying the Imam? Nothing of that sort at all. The Imam responds (it on the RECORD) "May I make a suggestion". And He ends the suggestion by saying that He would meet us again (outside the litigation) and deal with the issues. Why say that He would to meet us again (raised it Himself) if are so wrong and terrible murids, worthy of being excommunicated for disobeying Him? Why NOT tell us how wrong we are, etc. It would have taken a whopping one minute to tell us off and to leave. All of one minute. And Nagib made it clear that although legally he could have asked questions of the Imam, he left the Imam at His freewill to say whatever He desired.

And all he did is make a SUGGESTION. Think about it. A suggestion is not a command, or an order, or a direction at all. Isn’t that like saying: you are right, I will not tell you to stop; I will not tell you that you have wronged me; I will not say you are nafarmani; none of that.

He does not say that He wrote the letters and ASKS us to apologize to them. No, He REQUESTS us to withdraw the allegations of fraud, why REQUEST us to withdraw? Had He signed the letters would He not tell us that we were wrong and ask us to apologize. Nagib was determined to file a report with Paris police, and Hazar Imam just protected His officer from criminal sanctions. And the Imam just requests us to withdraw the allegations.

The Imam was given an opportunity to correct us. Instead the Imam validated everything we said in our defense, and distanced himself from all points asserted in the claim, the reply, and the forged letters, all of which have been mentioned by Bloglaw in his post.

It was not a missed opportunity, at all. Hazar Imam took the opportunity to acknowledge the sacrifices we have done to fight and to protect Him and the Jamats. The historical references to Arjun and Mawlana Krishna is apt. There are no words by which I can express what happened face to face with the Noor. The Noor was with us and embraced us. Shukr, is all I can say.

Yes, there are many who criticize us. Remember the other site also chastised the Imam for agreeing to allow the books to remain. Abiding by the Imam's wishes is not their criteria at all. It is what THEY think is right is what matters. For these types of people, our Pirs has said: Aap muarada jeev dozake pariya (the person who acts by his own desires will go to hell).

Those who know our history, long gone history, should know that all Prophets, all Pirs, all Imams have had “dhongi” surrounding them. Pir has said: Dhongi to anee anee hare vasee, te tu lute shahebji nu dhyaan re, moman a man am janjo re..... (pretenders surround the lord, and they distract Him...)

* Canada

@Alnaz Jiva
On November 6th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Excellent job!
It just feels so right!
Your post touched my soul.

* United States

No doubts in my mind!
On November 4th, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

All doubt in my mind are gone. I know what the Imam wants.

I had the possibility to act as a cunning examiner or act as as a devoted Ismaili in this audience and I decided to act as an Ismaili. is this not what you would have done? I am sure you would have done the same.

When Imam is in front of you, you always address him by starting all your sentences with the word "I beg your forgiveness" and you continue your sentence if He allows you. And when you are interrupted or do not understand, you do not say "what?", you say "sorry?" - That is our code of conduct since Centuries.

The Imam said everything He wanted to say and you just have to trust that what He has for the future is what is good for everyone. He knew there was no way for me to ask any questions as all the 5 questions I had in my mind were related to the letter which was snatched by Gray. Gray knew that as a devoted Ismaili I would not raise my voice or create a fuss in the presence of the Imam and he took advantage of this. So be it.

I felt that The Imam has to set the direction of the meeting so I kept quiet. Is that not what each one of you reading this post would have done in the same circumstances?

Was I expecting anyone not to follow what the Imam would say at that meeting? No, I thought all will respect the words of the Imam. Did I expect people to contradict The Imam and argue loudly against Him? No, honestly, I was not expecting this to happen. I made an error of judgment, assuming that all of Gray, SS and MM would have some respect for Imam's instructions.

Ultimately what count is that Imam Himself has confirmed that Alnaz and I were right. So I am going to act in accordance to the Instructions I got.

@ Nagib - Was Gray or Nagib the examiner ?
On November 5th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

When reading the transcript and letters instead of Nagib being the examiner it was Gray who conducted the entire examination on record and decided what goes on record ?

Is the disagreement in the consent order as summarised and analysed by Bloglaw? Or are there any other reasons ?

* United Arab Emirates
Can the whole dicovery process be disqualified?
On November 6th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

If according to law no one else can be present at the discovery meeting except the plaintiff and his lawyer and defendant and his lawyer except if agreed previously and if SS and MM were present there without the defendant's consent and if Gray exclusively decided what remains and what does not remain on the record without consulting the defendant and since this is explained to the judge by Nagib and Alnaz in their letters , How strong and objectionable is this issue?
Can judge rule that entire discovery was sabotaged by the Plaintiff's lawyer?
Then what happens?
Are we at square one?
Or consent judgment can still be acceptable?
Or the whole event is nullified and Hazar Imam might have to give specifically written clear affidavit or something?
Just trying to understand what are the future possibilities?
If a lawyer or Alnaz can explain

* United States

A Consent Judgment
On November 6th, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

The Consent Judgment as described by Hazar Imam could have happened 6 months ago, there is nothing in what the Imam said to the defendant that was not acceptable to them even 6 months ago. And whatever was not acceptable to SS and MM 6 months ago is still not acceptable to them today.

In the same manner, a 5 minutes meeting with the Imam could have happened any time in the last year or so. Maybe Imam had some reasons to "reward" the defendants with half hour instead.

The disagreement between SS
On November 5th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The disagreement between SS and Hazar Imam seems to be only on the point of "infringement". SS want the Consent to say there was Infringement and the book should be banned and Hazar Imam says the people can keep the book so there is no infringement.

Once this disagreement will disappear, the case will be resolve. At this point, it really boils down to a dispute between SS and Hazar Imam, a dispute over which the defendants have no control.

@ librarian Umed:How will that resolve?
On November 6th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I understood the first point agreed in the meeting was that defendants agreed to copyright infringement and to stop publishing the book.Or was it only stated that Hazar Imam has copyrights?
So how do we relate keeping the book with no infringement ?
Is that a legal reference? That if someone is allowed to keep the copied material than the charge is automatically nullified? Is recall a must?
I am not a lawyer may be some lawyer can explain .
May be Alnaz may explain

* United States

No there was no copyright infringement.
On November 6th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

No there was no copyright infringement.

The agreement was that Imam has Copyright of the Farman, something that defendant have never denied.

Did Hazar Imam told you that
On November 4th, 2010 AZ (not verified) says:

Did Hazar Imam told you that he did not initiate this lawsuit?

* United States

Yes he contradicted all the
On November 4th, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

Yes he contradicted all the lies which are in the Statement of Claim and their other documents. The Imam confirmed that He knew that Alnaz was not part of anything to do with the publication, he confirmed there was no problem with the web site, he confirmed that he understood that Mehmani of 1992 and confirmed he gave the instructions to continue at that time as they were looking for competent people even for translating the Farmans into French, Farsi etc.. He confirmed that whoever had the Golden Edition could keep it. He also confirmed that there was no editing of the Farmans. So yes, he clearly said everything we were saying since the very beginning.

Nagib

@umed : On record is only part of the conversation.
On November 3rd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

The guidance given to all 4 individuals was off record .
The court is only going to look at what is "on record."
All else will be heresay as far as I understand.

Although we understand Hazar Imam did not initiate the lawsuit ,he stll "showed up as the plaintiff."
He did not "on record" say
"I am not the plaintiff" Neither did he say "there is No forgery"
However he expreseed His 2 main wishes.
1. agree to the consent judgement
2.withdraw the allegations of forgery

So however much we all are convinced that Hazar Imam is not the real one to initiate the lawsuit and there was indeed forgery, He does not want the defendants to pursue the issue of criminality for reasons known to all.
So I still believe the defendants must just accept everything because that is what Imam wants.

* United States

Has the whole tape
On November 3rd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Has the whole tape conveniently disappeared? Does the botched transcript of the first 5 minutes nullify whatever instructions the Imam gave to all present during the next 25 minutes?

Thank you Alnaz for sharing the informations
On November 2nd, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Thank you again, but what is the next step then. We don't hear from the leader who initiated this mess. Is he hiding or is he twisting everthing because he lost the case. Congrats to you and to Nagib again, as we say diraj ja phool are sweet. Anyway, we continue to pray for both of you and your families. I think there is more to come and for the moment, the case is not over.

* Canada

@Umed
On November 2nd, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Umed. I am so happy that this "great site" will continue.

Nagib and Alnaz, please fulfil all the wishes of Our Beloved Hazar Imam. See how gracious He was to both of you. He loves His Murids. Shukar. Do not let any obstacles come your way, including people who want to attack you "verbally, Hazar Imam knows everything. May Allah shower His Blessings upon you and may Our Beloved Hazar Imam give you strength to overcome all the difficulties.

Umed, please post copy of letter sent to court by Alnaz, soon. May Allah shower His Blessings upon you and may Our Beloved Hazar Imam bless you with His Zaheri and Batuni Deedar. Keep up the excellent work you are doing. Thank you.

* Canada

IMAM SAYS LEADERS ARE NOT WORKING TOGETHER!
On November 1st, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

UNBELIEVABLE - Ismailies will be totally stunned. What does Imam mean when Imam says to Dr Sachedina in the presence of MM, Nagib and Alnaz “To SS Imam said, "it would be nice if we spoke with the same voice".

Mohammed Manji’s request and comments to Hazar Imam are totally inappropriate to say the least. “Just before the mulakat ended, MM says to MHI, Khudavind their web site is causing problems so It should be closed. MHI responds, "I am not familiar with the web issues so we can't deal with it", MM, "but Khudavind it is causing confusion in the Jamats because we have Ismail.org they have Ismaili.net and it is causing problems...". MHI cuts him off saying, "it would be nice if we spoke with one voice, why can't you work together?"

So Dr SS and MM have clearly not discussed this web issue with Hazar Imam before. Nor have they given a full report & recommendations to Hazar Imam of precisely how that website (& Web issues) are causing problems and confusion in the Jamat. BEFORE making such incomplete and incorrect comments or preparing a report they should have had meetings with Nagib, Alnaz other sites, to explain to them what are their concerns, problems and confusion and how they can all work together for the benefit of the JamaT and speak with one voice. Only after that and AFTER consultations with IIS, Scholars, AND LIF would they (Dr SS & MM) then make a report and recommendations for MHI to consider. Does MM/SS not know the protol of how the consultation and institutional process works and should be followed in seeking specific guidance of such magnitude? This is CLEARLY set out in Farmans, constitution, related rules policies and criteria documentation including related guidance from Hazar Imam specifically on them.

After the meeting Imam leaves on his own. Imam CLEARLY did not discuss with Dr SS, MM or Mr Gray what directions he was going to give in that meeting. If they knew they would not be disagreeing or discussion them with MHI. Imam did not consult or discuss with them in advance is for a very good reason. Imam’s speech on the same evening has many clues.

Dr SS and MM. I hope and pray that you will both NOW work together, speak with one voice and file the consent order as directed by Hazar Imam without any more delay. Thereafter INTERNALLY everyone will help in working together in accordance with the wishes of Hazar Imam. If you then wish I (or others) will be happy to assist the present institutional team leaders in preparing an objective comprehensive report research and recommendations on all Web issues of concern, working together with the help and support of the related websites, Nagib, Alnaz, institutional team leaders, and the Editors of this & Vancouverite sites etc. None of whom I know persoanlly. I am sure there are many who will also be happy to assist and support. It maybe this has been done or is in progress. I seem to recall in an earlier post or in the court documents was offered by Nagib.

* United Kingdom

@ Bloglaw re: above post of November 1st
On November 2nd, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ameen to your prayers in the last paragraph, brother Bloglaw.
As for your last line, in one of the cross examinations, if I recall correctly, it was confirmed by Mr. Sachedina (speaking about dissemination of information via the web) that Nagib's site was part of the solution (not part of the problem). How it suddenly became a problem is surprising...The domain ismaili.net has existed for over a decade...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Keeping books!!!
On November 1st, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Although MHI had said in his first sentence that undistributed books to be given to ITREB, I asked MHI for permission to ask for clarification, he says "yes", so I ask, khudavind I am asking this for clarification, did I understand correctly that all those books that have been distributed and given away, they can be kept by the recipients and not returned", MHI responds, yes that is what I meant." SS at this moment intervenes, "we can make an announcement in the jamatkhanas for the books to be returned by all to tarika boards, if they wish...", MHI replied to him that, "it would be nice if we spoke with the same voice". Nagib asks, khudavind I have 200 books remaining in Kenya, can I give them to ITREB in Nairobi, MHI says, yes you can.

* Canada

@ Alnaz re: above post of Nov.1st (Keeping books)
On November 2nd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thanks a million for all these details, Alnaz ! It means so much!
And I hope that Itreb in Naïrobi can put the 200 books to use. Insh'Allah.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Books To ITREB vs IIS?
On November 2nd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Didn't "The letters" say the unsold books must be returned to IIS?
Hazar Imam in person said to return to ITREB.
IIS is full of non Ismailis.
Why should farman books be returned to IIS?
This validates the letters were not written by Hazar Imam.

* United States

Good observation....
On November 2nd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Not only the letters but also the announcement made in JKs also said to return the books to IIS. These and other such things did not make sense at all and that is why we had confidence that MHI was not the author of the information that was being forced on us.

I admire your and other murid's excellent analyses of the various issues arising in this case.

* Canada

LEADERS PLEASE HELP TO END THIS NOW
On November 2nd, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Leaders & LIF must now be proactive snd speak amongst themselves and together with Dr SS & MM consider and appoint 2-3 other objective leaders to specifically and as priority file the consent order as directed by Hazar Imam in collaboration with Nagib and Alnaz. Leaders please please help to end this NOW for all our sakes. thank you.

* United Arab Emirates

@ Momin
On November 3rd, 2010 An ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

There are few leaders of the caliber of Dr.SS – particularly like chairman of LIF. I feel he should try to resolve this issue. He is likely to be successful. and in that case, the whole Jamat would be grateful to him. Mr. chairman, would you please try at least once.

Which leaders are referring to????
On November 2nd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Despite MHI's efforts (eg oath of office) to have EACH officer defend and protect the Constitution, these officers defend and protect each other.

Who are you referring to in your post. Obviously when ALL officers kiss their superiors feet (betraying their oath and the imam in the process) so does anyone know of ONE officer who is living by his oath of office.

I have been involved in these issues since 1987, and I have not come across ONE officer who even knew of his oath of office and who had read the constitution he swore to defend and protect.

All alwaezes and mukhis also have switched loyalties - no mukhi today represents the Imam, ALL represent ITREB, some also represent councils and IIS, and alwaezes also no longer dedicate themselves to Jamats interests but they also kiss itreb's feet.

Not one in my experience. Don't mistake hard work, long hours, running around sweating as representing the imam or defending the constitution.

Ismailis today do not say their Dua ad approved by Imams, don't listen to the Imam's farmans (they are fed manipulated farmans), they are led by officers who don't represent or do what the Imam wants.

Looking at our history, the state of today's jamat is same as the Jamats during (one example) Mawlana Jafer Sadiq's time who were then transferred to Musa Kazim's camp.

* Canada

Mohamed Manji argues against this site!!!
On November 1st, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Just before the mulakat ended, MM says to MHI, khudavind their web site is causing problems so It should be closed. MHI responds, "I am not familiar with the web issues so we can't deal with it", MM, "but khudavind it is causing confusion in the Jamats because we have Ismail.org they have Ismaili.net and it is causing problems...". MHI cuts him off saying, "it would be nice if we spoke with one voice, why can't you work together?"

* Canada

@ Alnaz re: above post of Nov.1st
On November 2nd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for sharing this and other precious information with us, Alnaz, it means so much to us.
May you and Nagib continue to want to do His will at all cost. Ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Shukhar Mawla!
On November 2nd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

I am happy this website will continue.
It is becoming somehow apparent to me that the lawsuit infact was initiated by the leaders and Hazar Imam really did not want to get involved but he obliged the leaders for the sake of peace in global jamat and maintaining the integrity of the institution he physically came to attempt an amicable solution but the leaders want to still hijack Mawla's grace and continue playing their own game?

You can reap the benefits of sweet fruits as much as you want of a fertile tree but it is not a good idea to even pull the roots of the same tree.You might end up losing the valuable and vital sustenance.

Leaders are playing with the fire.
Hazar Imam Is gracefully out of His infinite mercy complying with their demands and condition but it may not continue too long. They must remain warned.
When Imam's divinity will come into action ( Sudarshan Chakra of Krishna avtar) there will be no telling.
Alnaz and Nagib also must absolutely follow whatever they promised Mawla .They must remain very vigilant also and not fall in the hands of Shaitan by any pride or ego.
They must constantly reflect on each and every word that Mawla has uttered in the meeting
They must absolutely remain humble and act in perfect accordance with Hazar Imam's guidance.
Do not let your Ibadat Bandagi lapse , Which is your biggest strength and source of Noor for the right direction.
Looks like the story will continue.I hope for the better.

* United States

MOST SHOCKING REVELATION SO FAR !
On November 1st, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

MOST AMAZING AND SHOCKING.REVELATION SO FAR. WHERE IS THE HUMILITY, THE LOVE AND UNCONDITIONAL THE ACCEPTANCE OF AUTHORITY OF HAZAR IMAM

I AM SURE EVERY ISMAILI MURID WOULD HAVE SAID AND EXPECT LEADERS TO SAY;

AMEEN KHUDAVAND, WHAT EVER IS YOUR WISH. WE WILL ALL WORK TOGETHER, AND WE WILL DO EXACTLY AS YOU HAVE DIRECTED. MAWLA PLEASE FORGIVE US AND WE ALL PLEDGE AND ASSURE YOU AGAIN THAT WE WILL DO OUR VERY BEST TO REMAIN UNITED IN SERVING YOU AND THE JAMAT SELFLESSLY AND PROACTIVELY. PLEASE FORGIVE ALL OUR SHORTCOMINGS AND BLESS US WITH THE WILL AND THE STRENGHT TO CARRY OUT OUR RESPONSIBILITES. AMEEN KHUDAVAND.

IF NOT DONE, THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN SAID BY NAGIB AND ALNAZ

SS and MM in Imam's presence!!! On October 31st, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:
At the meeting both of these men refused to accept the Imam's words, and argued against the Imam's stated positions. To SS the Imam said, "it would be nice if we spoke with the same voice", and to MM the Imam said, "it would be nice if we spoke with one voice. Why can't you work together?"

.

* United Arab Emirates

Mulakat with Imam on Oct 15
On November 1st, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Mawlana Hazar Imam came in at 10:40 a.m. The Mulakat took place on 38th floor of Royal Bank Towers (the building with Golden glass on downtown Toronto) at the lawyers boardroom.

I sent a letter to the court today setting out in greater details of what happened at the Mulakat. I will send a copy to this site and I trust that Umed can post it for all to read, and all will know what MHI spoke about. As you all know only one sentence spoken by MHI is on the record, and about 20 minutes of information was given by MHI, He was very gracious with us, I was very nervous and just did not know what to expect at the Mulakat, but with so many Murids praying for us, MHI was so gracious with us, looked at us with so much affection, affection I do not feel worthy of and am ever so grateful and offer my Shukr.

One thing I did not mention in that is that as MHI was preparing to leave the room, I presented a box of chocolates to MHI as Mehmani, “Khudawind, we would like to present this Mehmani on behalf of all those who have supported the book and their family" and Hazar Imam made a gesture of blessing toward the box lying on the table and said “I accept.”

I raised the box to give to him and Hazar Imam leaned toward the box and said, it’s not appropriate for me to take it from you in the law office, but I accept it, if you give it to me outside I will take it from you, but i accept it. Then he smiled, put his hand on his heart and said “Khuda Hafiz” once looking to Nagib, once again "Khuda Hafiz" looking at me. Of course I did not follow the Imam outside but took the box and placed it as Mehmani in JK.

He spoke of His Farmans, Farmans of previous Imams, Ginans, Mehmani of 1992, Dais ('when Farmans are changed, Da'is have got hurt'), and said He annotates His Farmans and that Farmans cannot be changed.

All we can say is Shukr.

* Canada

@Alnaz:Mubarak! Mubarak to Alnaz and Nagib.
On November 2nd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Thank you so very much for sharing your moments of Hazar Imam's grace.Alnaz, pehaps before you might have been angry for getting drawn in to this lawsuit but buddy I think it was a miracle that for no reason you got dragged in.
What does "Annotates his farman " mean?

* United States

Angry !!!!
On November 2nd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Frankly, I was never angry at being sued, as I was certain all along that MHI was not behind the litigation. I have been involved with the leaders since 1977, and specially active with them after 1987, and KNOW how manipulative they are, and how they ignore the Imam's directions. MM and I had a go at the very issue in 1987 and I KNOW that even then he was not at all concerned with following the Imam's directions.

So I was not at all surprised that he argued against the Imam's stated position. The question I pose: IF they can argue against the Imam in the Imam's face, what are not capable of doing behind His back.

MHI has asked us to seek accountability, answerability and competence. It is all of our duties to become active and seek answers from them.

So my question really is, many murids make comments here and elsewhere, but have these murids sought answers directly from them in accordance with the Imam's Farmans? For those who have done so, mubarakis to them, if not, why not, I ask.

* Canada

@ Alnaz re: above post of Nov. 2nd ("Angry!!!")
On November 2nd, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
First of all, Mubaraki to you, brother Alnaz, and thank you for sharing with us. And I cannot agree more with your last paragraph! It is because of the laxism and the silence of the jamat that such terrible things as this lawsuit can happen, and even more terrible, we give our consent to those things by remaining silent...
I hope your message will awaken those of us who are not awake yet.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Annotates
On November 2nd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Some definitions are as follows: a critical or explanatory note or body of notes added to a text. a note added in explanation, etc, esp of some literary work.

My understanding is this. Take the example of the comments made by the Imam at London's GJ Farman re: leaders. He did not say what and why the comments were made except to give that message. Annotate would mean that He makes notes on why he said that, perhaps also whom He said to, etc. so as the future (or even the present) generation can understand why something was said.

It is the act of adding commentary to the Farmans as an explanation, background, etc. He said that it could be produced if we wanted. I am so exited and am waiting to humbly ask for these annotated Farmans as it would help us understand His Farmans.

* Canada

Clarification
On October 31st, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

A week or so before a meeting, a post was posted in my name which referred to me in third person, and a reader had replied that it was sheer manipulation, because it appeared in my name and it appeared as I am writing 'Alnaz this and Alnaz that. I never responded to that as I became very busy.

Normally I dont read these comments, other than occasionally, however my law clerk reads them most of the time. Often she would get upset at comments which appeared to her as misinterpretation or misunderstanding of the facts, that day she decided to post a response, typed up the post in her word processing and asked me to post it, and by mistake I wrote my name as the writer instead of hers.

Sorry to post the clarification weeks after.

Alnaz

* Canada

PROPAGANDA OR DIS-INFORMATION VS DIFFERENCES OF OPINION OR DISTO
On October 30th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Response by Bloglaw

Mr Shivji, You say do not understand why our Institution (Leaders) did not act earlier against the defendants. You refer to them as a splinter group ? With respect why and on precisely what facts and information/misinformation do you conclude that they are a splinter group ? You know from reading the lawsuit what happened in the last 20 years including meetings and that Nagib by agreement with the leaders in question spent 2 days at IIS ? Earlier you said you could not get a copy of the constitution and have not read the last constitution. Also you accept access to Farmans is limited and you cannot get access to all Farman’s in JK’s or at ITREB offices.

Conclusions and opinions will invariably be inaccurate & incomplete when based on incomplete or inaccurate information or knowledge.

In the lawsuit it is stated that Farmans are available in all JK’s. You are now questioning leaders by asking a series of questions using this forum. We must also ask what have we done regarding some of the issues we were aware of?. You are also understandably giving your take on issues highlighted by the lawsuit. Your views and conclusions are based on your understanding & your interpretation of information or interpretations of others.

We do not know precisely what transpired in the 30 minute meeting so far (FACT). We know a part of what transpired from the Heritage site according to them. We also know a part from the Vancouveritte site regarding a demand for accounting & number of books (according to them). The fact is we do not know all or all the correct facts. We are all relying on limited information & knowledge. Leaders have not shared historically and have not in this case. Defendants have shared more and hopefully will share what are the precise differences between their understanding and that of Mr Gray/Dr SS and MM. Maybe there are compelling reasons for this.

I now come to the question by Ali on malicious propaganda and your response about the human mind and its ability to twist information and facts. I would add that information is also used for spin, and to drive, causes, products, services, and agendas motivated by self interest.

Journalists and reporters, reporting news, has been revolutionized and changed forever. What does Hazar Imam say about this. I would recommend that you also listen to the interview after this speech on 15th October, and the workshop of the solutions.

" ..the way we communicate with one another has been revolutionized. But more communication has not meant more cooperation. More information has also meant more mis-information – more superficial snapshots, more shards of stray information taken out of context. And it has also meant more willful dis-information – not only differences of opinion, but distortions of fact. A wide-open internet allows divisive information to travel as far and as fast as reliable information. There are virtually no barriers to entry – and anyone, responsible or irresponsible – can play the game. New digital technologies mean more access, but they also mean less accountability.

The advent of the internet and the omnipresence of mobile telephony seem to promise so much! But so, once, did television and radio – and the telegraph before that – and, even earlier, the invention of the printing press. Yet each of these breakthroughs, while connecting so many, was also used to widen cultural gulfs.

Technologies, after all, are merely instruments – they can be used for good or ill. How we use them will depend – in every age and in every culture – not on what sits on our desktops, but on what is in our heads – and in our hearts.”

I hope we will know the facts which Editor of Vancouveritte expects to get in a few days which will also hopefully clarify

1 Precisely what transpired and what was agreed in the 30 minute meeting

2 What is the precise difference and misunderstanding between what Alnaz/Nagib are saying/signed, and what Mr Gray/Dr SS/MM are saying (which they will have presented to MHI for guidance and approval)

3 Reason for the delay in implementing directions given by MHI (over 2 weeks so far

* United Kingdom

Mowla's objective through the book
On October 30th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

You are right Bloglaw, there is the spirit of the seva that Nagib and Alnaz rendered to the ismaili Jamat and the Imam and there is the letter or the law of SS who is offuscated that this should have done by him and his team.

I think Mowla is interested in results and sincerity. Are our youth living their lives according to the full knowledge of what Mowla said in His Farmans.

The first step has been done by Nagib and Alnaz. Together, as Mowla said , they should continue in this lofty and exciting path of being by the side of the Imam, sharing His message and Farmans to build a vibrant community for generations to come. This was the work of Pir Shams, ..etc. And Mowla was by them and always close to them in this work.

Some people benefit from physical proximity with the Imam, some have His "Companionship on High", even in this world.

Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah said in His Memoirs:

"Everyone should strive his best to see that this spark be not extinguished but rather developed to that full "Companionship-on-High" which was the vision expressed in the last words of the Prophet on his deathbed, the vision of that blessed state which he saw clearly awaiting him. "

* Canada

WHAT'S THE "BEHD"?
On October 29th, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

In the spirit of pluralism, here is one way to understand the events of the past few months

1. Being Akle-qul, the Imam is always all-knowing.

2. Despite being aware of the confusion in the minds of Tajdin and Jiwa about the Mehmani, the Imam did not grant them a short personal meeting, choosing instead to leave controversy as to the authorship of the lawsuit. What was the “Bedh- the hidden Reason? Only Mowla knows. But since we have also been given an aql, it is our duty to seek out the answers. (all religions are a path through the confusion). Many people claim that the Lord of the Universe created this lawsuit so that ordinary Ismailis could learn to question. In other words, it got them THINKING. It was the deliberate intention of Mowla to get the community to wake up and take responsibility for its own affairs. Such people say that this explanation is the only one in line with our Ismaili belief about the Imam and His divinity.

* Seychelles

I think the case will continue.
On October 31st, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

eji utar kha(n)dd maa(n)he shaah nee jot jaagevaa,
shaah naa purakh meele parketaa ho jirebhaai..................1

O momins: When the Lord's light shines in the North continent,
then complete recognition(and understanding) of the Lord is
attained. O dear brother

I think plenty more revelations and facts are going to happen.
This is just the very very beginning leading to Zahurat or something like that.

Hazar Imam actually may be did not plan on concluding it but to guide his 2 momins he appeared.
Otherwise how could case still not have concluded?
What is the existence of the will of these 2 murids ( Like "2 ablas" without even their lawyers?) in front of "Mawla's will?"
The omniscient and omnipotent , The Lord.

He had to come and say just one sentence" There IS NO forgery .I am the plaintiff period."
Nagib and Alnaz had no other choice but to agree to everything put forward by lawyers and leaders.
There was no need for him to urge these defendants to withdraw allegations of forgery.
.
If he was angry with these 2 crazy guys why would he give guidance for 25 minutes and give smiles?
He knows to walk away ignoring them wholesale!!
I have seen him doing it to even so called "important leaders".
Only He knows the "Bhed"

Just a momin's speculation!
Real things will be more clear after the defendants and leaders reveal exactly what transpired in the meeting
Hope fully we will have some anouncement by Chandrat.

* United States

@ Abdul re: above post (Oct. 29)
On October 30th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Could you possibly explain what you mean by the words "...the confusion about the Mehmani..." in your sentence "Despite being aware of the confusion in the minds of Tajdin and Jiwa about the Mehmani..." ? What were they confused about and how ? I would be most grateful to you indeed if you could explain so that I am not confused. Sorry for the pun...
Thank you in advance.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Behd
On October 30th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Ya Ali brother Abdul,

I think for so many years, in the mind of Nagib and Alnaz, there is pure clarity, vision and willingness as fidais to carry out one of the most important work in our ismaili Tariqa: to convey to the Jamat the word of the Imam and to preserve them for our future generations. They believed that, as our grandfathers did, that if Mowla says it is night, and our eyes see it is day, Mowla's word is the truth.

And they were willing to do so with the best of their ability, with authenticity, with love and devotion. It is so obvious through their affidavits.

On the contrary, on the other side, there is no willingness to discuss, they hide behind their lawyer and their position of power. They did everything to prevent Nagib and Alnaz not to meet Mowla, in my opinion something was fishy there.. There should have been mediation right from the start and this thing dragged for too long. They should look at the benefit of the Jamat and not that they might loose control and face. They should be happy that someone in the Jamat takes on himself to do such sewa. They should find ways to talk to each other, to find common grounds, that's what our Imam has always taught us to conduct ourselves.

You are right, He has given Aql and therefore freedom to do right or wrong.

Mowlana Hazar Imam said to the Agakhan Foundation in 1992:

"This is a time of new freedoms, but it is also one in which new choices must be made wisely. In exercising freedom and making choices, our institutions must be guided, as they have been in the past by the teachings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace of Allah be upon Him) and the tradition of our Tariqah, which is the tradition of Hazrat Ali: a thinking Islam and spiritual Islam: an Islam that teaches compassion, tolerance and the dignity of man, Allah’s noblest creation."

* Canada

GOOD INTELLIGENCE & definition of FARMAN BY IMAM
On October 29th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

News Editor Vancouveritte October 28, 2010 - We are picking up some very good intelligence. We are hearing that there is a hold-up about accounting for some of the books. We are also told that the defendants are not very happy looking people and they are complaining about some of the accounting being demanded. So what we think is going to happen is that costs are being worked out and that may determine how much they will be asked to pay in punitive or exemplary damages. What may also happen is a demand for exact number of books and where they went. I hope this helps explain why there appears to be a slight delay PanjeBhai.

REPLY BY BLOGLAW - 29 October 2010

Thank you for sharing. There should be no reason or delay in the defendants accounting for some of the books. If this is the only issue remaining then it seems this case will be settled soon. Or do you mean Mr Gray, Dr Sachedina and M Manji are demanding a financial accounting of books ? I wonder why it has taken 2 weeks. Do you know how many books? and what accounting is being demanded and if that was a part of the directions from the MHI in the 30 minute meeting. Thanks again.

I hope the consent order is filed urgently by the Defendants with Mr Gray and Dr Sachedina and M Manji. Any remaining issues can be resolved internally.

I hope ALL Murids and Leaders will agree that there has been and can be some internal and external confusion inconsistency or misunderstanding in the context of the our constitution, the lawsuit, Farmans, and copyright.

Why are for example different definitions of Farman (and Talika) in the lawsuit, in the Press, in IIS and by Leaders when questioned? Imam has defined it clearly in the constitution. IIS states a Farman is “……In the Shi‘i Ismaili context, IT REFERS to an address by the Imam to his community.” I do not know if the constitution has been ever read with Farmans as directed in the constitution? I hope such inconsistencies will be addressed by the leadership who are aware.

Relevant quotes from the constitution & IIS (emphasis supplied in capitals).

"Farman" ANY PRONOUNCEMENT, DIRECTION, ORDER OR RULING MADE OR GIVEN by Mawlana Hazar Imam.

1.1 Mawlana Hazar Imam has inherent right and absolute and unfettered power and authority OVER AND IN RESPECT OF ALL RELIGIOUS AND JAMATI MATTERS OF THE ISMAILIS.

2.6 This Constitution SHALL BE READ WITH ANY FARMAN made after the date hereof, and in the event of conflict, the said Farman shall prevail over this Constitution, and A LATER FARMAN SHALL PREVAIL OVER AN EARLIER.

3.2 This Constitution shall apply to Ismailis worldwide, SUBJECT ONLY TO THE OVERRIDING EFFECT OF ANY APPLICABLE LAWS OF THE LAND of abode of any Ismaili TO THE EXTENT OF ANY INCONSISTENCY.

Full text of IIS definition of Farman :”From Persian lit. command, authority, will, permission. At the time of the Ottomans, the word ‘farman’ was used in Ottoman Turkish to denote any order of the Ottoman Sultans. In the 15th century CE, the word was first used in its strict sense of a written document. Typically, such documents would open with an invocation to God and were addressed to a governmental official in the capital cities or in the provinces as well as to dependent/client rulers. In the Shi‘i Ismaili context, it refers to an address by the Imam to his community”

* United Kingdom

WE SHOULD ALL IN HUMBLENESS AND HUMILITY ASK OURSELVES WHAT WE W
On October 28th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YA-ALI-MADAT, LIBRARIAN UMED! The way it appears, all contributors expressed their thoughts and comments in their selective websites. These websites accepted the thoughts and comments in manner it felt suitable to them! Obviously, the court case divided the commentators into two camps – FOR AND AGAINST. Those who felt that they should be heard in however in any interpretation made their views very explicit and blunt. In interim, though no body meant to hurt anyone, the harm was done! It was not done to the individuals but to the Ismaili Muslim Community and the Ismaili Muslim Imamat!

The criticism and appreciation came from both the camps because everybody wanted to be winners and be heard! It was not a championship, competition, and rivalry! It was the interpretation and understanding! This dragged the human failings to expose emotion, sentiment, and fervour passion. These have continued for many months but we all are still waiting for an outcome or an end! This court case will take it natural course to bring about an end. Then what?? Will it bring reconciliation? Will it bring the Ismaili Muslim Community together? Will it create the division in Ismaili Muslim Community?

Our bayat (allegiance) to Noor Mawlana Shah Karim Al-Husseini Hazar Imam is tested to an extent that many interpretations came about our material and spiritual life. It did become a vicious circle! Never-ending! In my humble opinion our Imam was subjected to pain and hurt but He did not make it known to any body! Consequently, no matter for which camp we expressed our comments and thoughts, we should all in humbleness and humility ask ourselves what we want? With my good prayers for the Jamat; Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

IMAM IS HAPPY WHEN WE ARE HAPPY
On October 28th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

You are right. I believe everyone knows what Hazar Imans wants us all to do. imam gave us an unprecedented opportunity to discuss amongst ourselves all the issues highlighted in this lawsuit. Imam instead of one minute gave directions for 30 minutes to the leaders and defendants to settle the lawsuit. I pray everyone in everything we are doing will do everything bearing in mind the Farmans and pronouncements of Hazar Imam Ameen.

* United Arab Emirates

Patience Sabr
On October 28th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

Allow me to pray that Almighty Allah grant us all Patience and Sabr, while we await the judgement in this Legal case.
Speculating , opinionating , slandering , accusing , name calling ..etc etc is a form of NINDA and harmful to us all.
WE .and I do mean we must all TRUST our beloved Mowla , Imam-e-Zaman and must pray for BEST outcome for all. Ameen

* Canada

réponse à M Nato
On October 27th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Encore une fois, vos commentaires sont pertinents et très intéressants. Je ne les traduirais pas en anglais car je pense que la traduction ne va pas vraiment réfléter ce que vous dites. En effet, que nous réserve l'avenir avec tout ce dénouement. Est ce que l'attitude des leaders va changer envers le Jamat. What about the futur, will the leaders change their behavior towards the Jamat? What's going to happen now, we have no news at all about the consent. Knowing SS, I am sure he is trying to add things he wants to be signed and probably try to change completely what Mowla said. The most important thing is the book, we have His Farmans, shukar, those who bought the book are very lucky because it's a gem, and Sultan Mohammed Shad said, those who understand know that they have moti (pearl) when I do a Farman. So please keep it, read it, understand what Mowla says to us. It's the straight path.
I hope that Tariqa will make the Farmans available now to the jamats, instead of keeping them hidden. Why our council, leaders and tariqa are so protective about the farmans, why the access is forbidden, how our youngsters can benefit of Mowla's guidance if they don't have access to them,it's been like that for years and years, I hope that things will change now. We are not creasy people, we will not give to non-ismailis. During Golden Jubilee, we did not hear the farman made in French to Madagascar because other communities knew what Mowla talked about. What nonsense. In 2003, same thing SS thought that the Farmans were not politically correct, so we have never heard about Madagascar's Farman, but thanks to the defendants, we got them. I hope that the institutions will be more flexible and will listen to the jamat and will be near the jamat not out of the world like they are now.

* Canada

What does consent judgement mean
On October 27th, 2010 knowledge (not verified) says:

Does it mean that once all the parties agree to it the court will decide whether only Mowlana Hazar Imam has to copyright o the Farmans. And if this happens wouldn't it be extremely difficult to get hold of any farmans. The policing by ITREB is as it is so tight so I wonder what's going to happen if the court decides that only MHI has the copyright to it.

I think all those who have got Farmans at home should hold on tight to their books as we never know what the judge is going to decide.

* United Kingdom

copyright
On October 27th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

In my logic, a copyright would be to reinforce that someone does not make a business out of a product unless he pays some royalties or fees associated with. Examples that come to my mind are songs, movies ..etc.

Nobody is going to come to your home to check your personnal life.

Moreover, time and again Mowla tells us to read, listen, discuss His Farmans, even with our grandchildren! I am sure He expects us to have them on hand with us to do so.......

And I believe that He said that we should keep the copy or copies of Golden KIZ that we have at home. How divine and generous! He has dedicated His life to guide us and He is doing it through His Farmans and other things.

Mowla said in Usul-eDin:

"Do not think that I make Farmans for no reason. Read, listen to and think upon My Farmans..
I have made many Farmans to you, but they will only do you good if you act according to them. If you put My Farmans into practice, then I shall consider that I have made Farmans until morning."

Thank you Mowla for all those beautiful Farmans!!!!!!!

* Canada

No the Court will only
On October 27th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

No the Court will only confirm what the parties have agreed upon. This is why it is called Consent Judgment.

HAS DRAFT CONSENT BEEN PLACED BEFORE IMAM E ZAMAN?
On October 27th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

After the meeting on 15th October 2010, did Mr Gray, Dr SS and MM sat down together with Alnaz and Nagib to discuss and agree a joint consent order. I wonder what happened and what was discussed after Imam e Zaman left the meeting, or did they all leave the meeting together. 2 weeks have gone by and a joint consent is not filed. It seems Alnaz and or Nagib have signed and sent their draft to Mr Gray, who will have passed it to Dr SS/MM and or Hazar Imam with comments for approval and instructions.

Globally directions from especially THE Top Leader are followed and implimented AS A PRIORITY by leaders down the line . Maybe this has been done in this case and Mr Gray is waiting for approval or instructions from Imam e Zaman.

* United Arab Emirates

Golden Jubilee Farmans Madagascar
On October 26th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

All Golden Jubilee Farmans are available in Jamatkhana in 7 languages: English, French, Gujrati, Urdu (Hindi), Farsi, Portuguese and Arabic. But I wonder why only the Madagascar one is missing. SS doen't like the Jamat of Madagascar? Or is it again because he thinks "Mowla thinks in French and talks in English" therefore He makes mistakes?

When one reads Farmans recently made in Madagascar (Thanks to Golden Kiz!), we can see that Mowla has a great vision for the future of Madagascar!

* Canada

@all
On October 26th, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

Les leçons de ce « lawsuit »

Maintenant que les tensions se sont apaisées, que tous, les uns et les autres, frères et sœurs malgré nos différentes appréciations sur le sujet, nous sommes tous convaincus et pouvons même clamer très fort que Mowla Bapa, dans Sa grande Miséricorde et Clémence, en tant que Guide Spirituel de tous Ses Murids a agi avec tendresse, fermeté et amour. Et Son Geste relève pour moi d’inspiration divine !
C’est un soulagement, un réconfort moral et intellectuel de voir la fin de ce procédure judiciaire ! Il nous faut cependant tirer quelques enseignements positifs. Il est temps, sans parler vraiment du « temps des ruptures » que le Leadership révise sérieusement sa façon de communiquer avec le Jamat et prenne en considération toutes les sensibilités, les besoins et les exigences du Jamat, les aspirations , surtout des jeunes générations à travers le monde ! La méritocratie, la diversité, le pluralisme, la tolérance que Mowla Bapa prône de tous Ses vœux sont des concepts que le Leadership doit s’approprier en urgence ! L’exemple doit venir du leadership pour que le Jamat mette réellement leur confiance sur ce Leadership, que les jeunes générations soient à l’écoute ! C’est seulement ainsi qu’une dynamique intergénérationnelle va se créer et que les projets, les aspirations, les Hidayats de Mowlana Hazar Imam seront concrétisés ! Il est temps d’arrêter les « jeux politiques », les » chaises musicales », le monopole des postes par « esprit de clans », les « corporate leaders », effectivement « no bureaucracy, no greed, no bashing,no bad words.. ; »
A l’ère de l’internet, beaucoup de choses ne sont plus comme avant ! La preuve, la densité, le nombre, le foisonnement des débats, idées, questionnements des internautes que Heritage Site Web a intelligemment dirigés ! Bravo et mille mercis pour ce courage. Continuez ce magnifique travail sans être tenté de débordements. Félicitations à Umed !

Le leadership n’a pas le monopole de notre Foi ! Nous sommes tous liés, un lien indéfectible et eternel par le Bhayat à notre Imam du Temps Présent ! Le Leadership n’a pas à porter de jugements hâtifs et infondés sur les uns et les autres. Souvent, ils procèdent par mesquinerie, hypocrisie envers ceux qui émettent des avis contraires à eux, même constructifs sont rejetés, oubliés et considérés comme des anti-conseils, anti Hazar Imam ! Ils n’hésitent pas à discréditer ces nombreuses bonnes volontés dans le Jamat, allant jusqu’à dire qu’il ne faut pas côtoyer, ni se lier d’amitié avec un tel si vous souhaitez un poste dans les Institutions !!! Eh oui, c’est du vécu dans nos juridictions en France !

Notre Foi est d’essence ésotérique, la quête spirituelle et individuelle ! Aussi, « we are not to judje anyone’s faith ». Mowla Bapa ne nous pas dit à Londres en 1994 « qu’il ne faut se lever malheureux du Bandgi….et que « ceux qui réussissent dans cette voie sont particulièrement proches de Moi ! »…. Alors le Leadership, allez chercher l’inspiration spirituelle de vos comportements d’abord avec l’Imam lui-même, qui a mis toute Sa confiance sur vous et avec votre Jamat qui ne demande qu’à vous écouter, à vous suivre. Mais cessez de croire que par ce que vous faites partie du Leadership que vous vous octroyez des droits et des jugements sur les Murids et les condamner sans appel car ils ne sont pas d’accord avec votre façon de faire !
Cette forme de rupture est urgente ! L’élite intellectuelle ismailie, très motivée par une éthique de Foi proclamée par Mowlana Hazar Imam vous sera très reconnaissante !

Il nous faut distinguer la pratique individuelle de notre Foi et nos engagements dans le Jamat, dans notre vie de tous les jours, dans la famille, le pays où nous vivons, dans nos relations professionnelles, dans nos actions humanitaires. Mowla Bapa nous a dit d’être les ambassadeurs de l’Islam dans nos choix de vie, honnête, compatissant, généreux et tolérant ! Je vous assure que les Farmans de 1994 à Londres m’ont vraiment interpellés ! Cette recherche d’une foi de conviction que Mowla nous convie à découvrir, à vivre ! pas de superficialité, de convenances sociales dans cette quête, dans cette Rencontre avec lui…. Ce fut très réconfortant, et c’est ainsi que j’ai échappé en quelque sorte à l’emprise mesquine des dirigeants et ne pas avoir donné d’importance aux jeux « politiques », hypocrites des dirigeants de notre Institution.
Il nous faut toujours se référer aux Farmans de Mowla, les lire aisément, les avoir chez soi, être présent aux rendez vous qu’Il nous accorde et agir selon Ses vœux et Ses Hidayats que l’on peut redécouvrir, comprendre durant cette quête individuelle !

Durant les différents Darbars du Golden Jubilee, Mowla Bapa nous a tracé notre feuille de route, Ses vœux, Ses aspirations sur la grande famille Ismailie unie, solidaire (TKN), l’éradication de la grande pauvreté et œuvrer pour la dignité des Seniors. Ces projets doivent se concrétiser et le Leadership doit plutôt s’atteler à cet immense travail que de perdre son temps à discréditer les bonnes volontés, les compétences de la société civile ismailie telles que celles de Tazdin et Alnaj ! Et je suis sûr qu’il y a à travers le monde globalisé de notre communauté un immense réservoir des spécialistes des différents domaines qui ne demandent qu’à servir et qui sont persuadés de la « divine guidance » de notre Véneré Hazar Imam !
C’est mon vœu le plus sincère que cette douloureuse épisode de « lawsuit » serve à nous réunir autour des Vœux de Mowla Bapa, que le « statuquo » des comportements et des agissements des leaders n’est pas souhaitable et que chacun prenne ses responsabilités et ne jamais oublier que nous sommes tous des frères et sœurs quelque soient nos divergences de point de vue et que le pardon grandit toujours celui ou celle qui le pratique ! Notre engagement doit être franc, loyal, désintéressé et soutenu par notre capacité d’écoute et de compréhension des Directives de Mowla Bapa !
Ya ali Madat et Khoda Hafiz,
Mohez nato
Ps j’autorise les compétences des internautes pour traduire mon texte en anglais. Et merci d’avance !

* France

English translation of post by Nato from France(Google translato
On October 30th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

French to English translation
@all
On October 26th, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

Now that tensions have eased, that all, each other, brothers and sisters despite our different assessments on the subject, we all believe and may even proclaim that hard Mowla Bapa, in His great mercy and clemency in As Spiritual Guide to all His Muridae acted with tenderness, firmness and love. And His gesture is for me to divine inspiration!
It is a relief, moral and intellectual comfort to see the end of the proceedings! However, we must draw some positive lessons. It is time, not to mention really of "time outs" that the leadership seriously review how it communicates with the Jamaat and consider all the sensitivities, needs and requirements of the Jamat, aspirations, especially young generations through world! Meritocracy, diversity, pluralism, tolerance Mowla Bapa that advocates of all His wishes are concepts that leadership must take ownership of emergency! The example must come from leadership so that the Jamat really put their trust in this leadership, the younger generation are listening! Only in this way that will create intergenerational dynamics and projects, aspirations, Mowlana Hazar Imam Hidayat to be realized! It is time to stop "playing politics", the "musical chairs", the monopoly positions by "spirit of the clans", the "corporate leaders" actually "No bureaucracy, no greed, no bashing, no bad words. . ; "
In the era of the Internet, many things are not like before! Proof, the density, the number, the proliferation of debates, ideas, questions from users that Heritage Site has cleverly headed! Congratulations and many thanks for the courage. Keep up the great work without being tempted to excesses. Umed Congratulations!

The leadership has not the monopoly of our Faith! We are all connected, an unbreakable and eternal Bhayat by our Imam of the Present Time! Leadership does not have to be hasty and unfounded judgments about each other. They often proceed by pettiness, hypocrisy to those who issue opinions contrary to them, even constructive are rejected, forgotten and regarded as anti-tips, anti Hazar Imam! They are quick to discredit the many good wishes in the Jamaat, up to say that we should not rub or make friends with so if you want a position in the institutions! Yes, it's lived in our courts in France!

Our Faith is essentially esoteric, spiritual quest and personal! Also, "we are not to anyone's faith judje. Mowla Bapa does not say in London in 1994 that "one must get up the unfortunate Bandgasse .... And that" those who succeed in this way are particularly close to me! ".... Leadership then, get the spiritual inspiration of your behavior first with the Imam himself, who has put all his trust on you and your Jamat just waiting to hear from you, following you. But cease to believe in what you're part of Leadership that you grant rights and judgments about the Muridae and condemn without appeal because they do not agree with your approach!
This form of failure is urgent! The Ismaili intellectual elite, highly motivated by an ethic of faith proclaimed by Mowlana Hazar Imam will be very grateful!

We must distinguish the individual practice of our faith and our commitment to the Jamaat in our lives every day in the family, the country we live in our relations, our humanitarian actions. Mowla Bapa told us to be ambassadors of Islam in our life choices, honest, compassionate, generous and tolerant! I assure you that the 1994 London Farmans really challenged me! This search for faith belief that Mowla invites us to discover, live! no superficiality of social conventions in this quest, in this encounter with him .... It was very comforting, and so I somehow escaped the clutches of the petty officers and failing to give weight to play "political" hypocritical leaders of our institution.
We must always refer to Farman Mowla, easily read, have them at home, attend appointments and he allows us to act according to their wishes and Hidayat we can rediscover this quest for understanding individual !

During the Golden Jubilee Darbar different, Mowla Bapa we plotted our roadmap, His wishes, aspirations on his Ismaili family united and cohesive (TKN), eradication of extreme poverty and work for the dignity of the Elderly. These projects must be implemented and Leadership must instead focus on this huge job to waste time discrediting goodwill, the skills of civil society such as those of Ismaili Tazdin and Alnaj! And I'm sure there's globalized world through our community a huge reservoir of specialists from different fields who are eager to serve and who are convinced of the "divine guidance" of our revered Hazar Imam!
It is my sincere hope that this painful episode of "lawsuit" used to get together around Wishes Mowla Bapa, the "status quo" attitudes and actions of leaders is undesirable and that everyone takes responsibility and never forget that we are all brothers and sisters, whatever our differences in viewpoint and that forgiveness is ever growing one who practices it! Our commitment must be honest, loyal, selfless and sustained by our ability to listen and understand the guidelines of Mowla Bapa!
Ya ali Madat and Khoda Hafiz,
Mohez nato
Ps I authorize Internet skills to translate my English text. And thank you in advance!

* United States

@Alibhai Jiwani and rabya, Kanize, Farmanbardari
On October 31st, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madat,
Many thanks and my sincere gratitude to Jiwani Alibhai. You succeed to give an english version of my post. It is really a vast program to succeed for telling to the Leadership to change some o their attitudes and behaviors! It is not easy! when the nomination arrived, they stay in a "bull", far from jamat... and not ready to listen to, specially youngests and intellectuals! Here, in my juridiction, after the Padhamri of 1980, first time in France, we have the chance to do this Padhamri, and to make happy Mowlana Hazar Imam by showing Him that people,french speaking, young people , specialy coming from Madagascar, settled here after the bad political situation in 1970-1972 are capable to organise good things! Mowla Bapa was very, very happy, told us that we are "priviligied" people, and a big, sincere hope was born , many opportunities after this Mulaquat were visible in the jamat, many young people very motivated! Unfortunatly, after this, started the"political", the spirit of "clans" and in summary, 7 families occupied all different positions, searching positions for their family members, brother, sister, cousin, cousine, uncle, aunty..;and clearly, these 7 families have each 7 seven members of their family and until now, these 49 people are in positions .....they control every thing, do not accept meritocratie, competence, ignore tolerance, diversity, pluralisme....and they have big facility to treat you anti-council, anti-Hazar Imam.....And it is really true that during the last nomination, Mowla Bapa told to new president of council"take a white paper and write a new history of the jamat"..;because it is a big "echec" of the institution who must take care of jamat!
I am very sorry, it is not by jealousy and amertune that I wrote this text but in my mind, we loose many things and Mowla is waiting for our all implications , specially in Madagascar where there are big challenges and many brothers and sisters are in bad situation!
Merci beaucoup Rabya, Kanize, Farmanbardari pour vos gentils mots! je ne suis qu'un simple Murid, qui a compris que la Foi est une question intime, personnelle, et que cette quête personnelle conduit à affermir la confiance en Mon Mowla ! Il voit tout, entend tout, comprend tout! Ce n'est pas le leadeship qui va réussir à rompre le lien qui nous unit à Mowla Bapa!
Bonne chance et que Mowla nous garde tous sur la voie droite du Siratal-Mustaquim!
Ya ali Madat mohez nato

* France

Above post of Nato Mohez (Oct. 26) (+ gist in English :-) )
On October 27th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Mowla Aly madad.
J'espère qu'une bonne âme pourra traduire vos propos !
Ce serait vraiment bien si vous pouviez rédiger une lettre contenant tout ce que vous recommendez ci-dessus et l'envoyer au LIF ainsi qu'aux conseils nationaux et ITREB nationaux d'autant de pays que possible pour que les dirigeants soient au fait des changements que bien d'entre nous souhaitons voir, changements qui sont non seulement désirables mais aussi nécessaires. La plupart de ceux qui contribuent à cette page partagent votre opinion, malheureusement, les personnes concernées (c'est-à-dire les dirigeants), elles, ne consultent guère cette page-ci, alors ce qui précède ne les atteint pas et reste lettre morte. Et il faudrait écrire cette lettre en anglais aussi pour pouvoir rejoindre les dirigeants des pays anglophones, vu qu'ils ne connaissent guère le français...

Je suis sincèrement convaincue que si les membres du jamat pouvaient s'impliquer davantage en faisant connaître leur avis à leurs dirigeants locaux et nationaux, en attirant leur attention sur ce qui laisse à désirer dans ce qu'ils font et en les félicitant pour tout ce qu'ils font de bien, si les membres du jamat pouvaient faire preuve de moins de laxisme, je suis certaine qu'on verrait du progrès, et que, petit à petit, les changements que nous désirons pourront se mettre en place, vu que ce n'est pas tous les dirigeants qui manquent à leurs devoirs, il y en a qui sont très motivés, très droits, et ces derniers pourraient devenir prépondérants si le jamat luttait contre les autres; je suis certaine que si plus de membres du jamat avaient su le sens du bayyat, ils auraient automatiquement compris que ce n'était pas Mowla Bapa qui avait engagé cette poursuite judiciaire et ils auraient tous clamé haut et fort, jusqu'au LIF, que tout ceci n'était qu'une masquarade, un mensonge éhonté et ignoble qu'il fallait absolument arrêter, et je mettrais ma main au feu que les dirigeants coupables auraient pris peur et auraient reculé : c'est à cause de notre ignorance et à cause du silence de ceux qui connaissaient le sens du bayyat que ce procès est allé si loin. Et hélas, si nous, les membres du jamat, ne nous mobilisons pas, des tragédies de ce genre risquent de se répéter à l'avenir. Une célébrité anglophone dont je ne me souviens pas du nom a dit : "ALL IT TAKES FOR EVIL TO SPREAD IS FOR GOOD MEN TO STAND AROUND AND DO NOTHING ABOUT IT." C'est une phrase tellement juste.

Alors, cher frère dans la religion, j'espère que vous penserez sérieusement à vous exprimer en notre nom à tous auprès des dirigeants.

Ya Aly madad.

GIST OF THIS REPLY IN ENGLISH :

I asked Mohez Nato to please submit his views in a letter (in English also) to the Ismaili leadership of as many countries as possible (including the LIF) (since the leaders don't really visit this page, at least not those who should !) so that they know what changes most of us desire to see in the leadership (loyalty to the farman and guidance, transparency, integrity...).

Moreover, I said that if the members of the jamat had really known the implications of "bayyat" they would have automatically known that this lawsuit had not been engaged by the Imam of the time, and they would all have demanded of their leaders that this terrible suit be stopped and the people behind this lawsuit would have had to stop it. And those who knew kept quiet.
We, the jamat, need to be more involved and need to communicate our views to our leaders, we need to congratulate them for what they do that is right, we need to bring their mistakes to their attention, and by being thus involved, slowly but surely, those changes we desire will happen. I quoted the sentence of a famous English speaking person whose name I can't recall, "All it takes for evil to spread is for good men to stand around and do nothing about it." We must not let history (i.e. lawsuit, more lies) repeat itself by our laxism.

Ya Aly madad!

* Canada

French comment by Mohez
On October 27th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

I would love to read his comment
Please would someone be gracious to translate in English?
Thanks in advance

* United States

your sharp analysis
On October 27th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Mohez,

Thank you for your deep understanding of our beloved Imam's vision! You are suggesting positive actions.

As Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah said: "Prayer without action becomes pride".

Let us look at our present and past history, and bring positive change to our future, including a fair and transparent access for all Ismailis, of our Imam's authentic Farmans , may it be through paper copy, audios, videos or other electronic means.

Shukhar Mowla!

* Canada

@Bloglaw
On October 25th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad. Mr. Bloglaw, Mr. Abdul, Farmanbardari, Mr. Asif Momin, Mr. Nizar Shivji and of course Umed of this "great website", and others: Your postings are so knowledgeable and inspiring, they always keeps me informed, for which Many Thanks. Keep up the good work. May Allah Shower His Blessings upon you all, and may Our Beloved Hazar Imam Bless you all with His Zaheri and Batuni Deedar. Ameen. Thank you once again.

* Canada

rope of guidance
On October 26th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Thank you Yasmin!

All praises are due to our beloved Hazar Imam who tirelessly guides us through His Farmans. To cut us from receiving Farmans is to cut us from His guidances. We thank Nagib and Alnaz for having given their time and ressources to convey those Farmans to us.Nobody can do this work with so much dedication and forbearance unless there is Mowla's love in their heart and this is the greatest thing they could have shared with their spiritual brothers and sisters.

Mowla has just recently reminded us of an important principle of getting knowledge in Islam: even if you have to go to China to get knowledge, you have to do it.

And what best knowledge than Mowla's Farmans ( of course authentic and untampered by intermediaries!)

Mowlana Murtaza Ali said in Kalam-e-Mowla:

"The status of Knowledge
Is above all virtues,
For through Knowledge he has recognized the Lord,
The one who has enlightened his heart;
And virtues and deeds, all disappear,
Knowledge of God alone remains.
Listen to this, understand it and remember it always,
So commands the Master of the Kawsar."

* Canada

"WE ARE SOFT AND EMOTIONAL"
On October 26th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MS. YASMIN! Very many thanks for your kind words. A person like you inspires us to express our thoughts and comments. We mean no harm to anyone! We have always believed that our conscience will guide us to right the wrong. We, human beings are soft and emotional but it is the infinite grace and mercy of Allah which direct us to the right path!

I reciprocal all your good wishes word to word, and at the same time I pray in Holy Huzur Poor Noor of Hazarat Dhani Salamat Datar Hazar Imam to guide us to the right path and bestow His loving paternal maternal blessings upon all of us so that we all become tolerant, charitable, and broad-minded in our daily tasks, Amen!!! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

WE ARE SUPPORTING THE INSTITUTIONS – THE PHANTOM SENSITIVITY CAR
On October 23rd, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Bloglaw responds to the Editor of Vancouveritte

Thank you Mr Editor for your comments.

My comments and views are objective, specific and reasoned We are all in fact supporting our institutions by giving feedback on the many serious issues highlighted by the lawsuit. We have therefore all been playing a positive and a constructive role. Our leaders should welcome these comments and suggestions. Anyone commenting does not mean that they are therefore against the Institution or its structures or the leaders. Far from it. I am certainly not against any of them. I do so because I too care. I do not know Alnaz or Nagib. The first time I heard their names was when the lawsuit was initiated.

Some on your site including you (at times) have been very intolerant, insulting and intentionally offensive. That is very regrettable & sad, because I believe Hazar Imam, Noorani family and other interested groups have been following parts of this debate. I note you have said that this was because “love and religion can obscure your vision”. On a positive note this was a reality check for many including me. I have learned much from them. Thank you.

I am surprised you are trying to play “the phantom of fear card”. You are saying that in certain countries Ismailies are living in fear. They could be affected somehow by being alienated and tormented. With respect the phantom “sensitivity” card has been used regularly to limit access to information, Farmans, inaction and to maintain or control the status quo etc. etc. There is every reason to stop using this card. I would love to debate this if you yourself have really researched this, been to the countries and spoken to Ismailies or the local leadership on this. I assume you are simply relaying this information provided to you. Suffice it to stay that information for any misinformation or misuse has been out there in those countries for many years before this lawsuit. Despite which Hazar Imam has facilitated and achieved so much so quickly. Similarly many Ismaili’s with different traditions & cultures have been meeting each other for over a decade now. If farmans and guidance are followed and implemented, I am certain that there will be no reason to fear but reason to unite and share. Hazar Imam reminded the world and us last week that;

“.. In acknowledging the immensity of the divine, we will also come to acknowledge our human limitations, the incomplete nature of human understanding. In that light, the amazing diversity of creation itself can be seen as a great gift to us – not a cause for anxiety but a source of delight. EVEN THE DIVERSITY OF OUR RELIGIOUS INTERPRETATIONS CAN BE GREETED AS SOMETHING TO SHARE WITH ONE ANOTHER – RATHER THAN SOMETHING TO FEAR. IN THIS SPIRIT OF HUMILITY AND HOSPITALITY – THE STRANGER WILL BE WELCOMED AND RESPECTED, RATHER THAN SUBDUED – OR IGNORED .”

I pray that the consent order will be filed in the coming days and the case ended. I also pray that everyone will work together and support each other with proactive, concerted, and deliberate efforts to build our Jamat and institutions taking account of our differences, and seeing the diversity & pluralism within our Jamat as an opportunity. AMEEN

* United Kingdom

Bloglaw' s above post of Oct. 23rd
On October 24th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ameen to these prayers, Bloglaw, and many thanks for your insight and for giving to those of us who have not been to those distant countries where Ismailis live your impression and input about the jamats there. I really appreciate it. Bravo for the way you have articulated your response to that editor (I hope he can be a little bit happier in his life, so that what he writes can reflect that happiness too).
Indeed, all of us who post on this page do care for the jamat and do wish to help the institutions improve in their work so as to better serve those for whose needs they were created.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Unity, leadership, service to the Imam and the Jamat
On October 24th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Bloglaw,

You are right, Mowla has told us time and again to work unitedly, and this does not only apply to the ordinary member of the Jamat, it applies also to the officially appointed people who are in position of decision making in the Jamat.

Service to the Jamat and the Imam has to be done not only in letter, but much more in spirit. It has to be free of bureaucratic ties, specially for a small community like ours.

Leadership is not only a material leadership, but much more, a leadership of the soul.

I think by putting their precious limited resources in gathering and sharing Farmans, it shows a much greater leadership than trying to leave this work aside, on the name of legal "authority".

Time and again Mowla wants us to re listen to His Farmans, and discuss about it. One such examples was in Canada 1978 to students:

"I have given a Farman to My student Jamat in Vancouver which I would like the student Jamat in Montréal to listen to..."

Not only to read it but also to listen to it!

* Canada

Are the motions for summary judgment continuing??
On October 22nd, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

According to Vancouverite, the motions for summary judgment will be heard on December 7th. I thought that all parties had consented to a judgment and there will be no further motions. So, can someone please tell me why everybody is going to court after there already is a settlement agreement?

* Canada

This is on the Docket as the
On October 23rd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

This is on the Docket as the dates for those motions were asked by the Case Management Judge since few weeks already. Once all parties sign the consent judgment, these dates will be release. I believe Nagib has already sign it.

CONSENT
On October 25th, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

As Nagib has already signed the consent, would it be possible to release a copy of the consent so we can understand what was exactly agreed upon during their meeting with Mawlana Hazar Imam? I think everyone is very anxious to read the transcript and consent. Thanks in advance.

* Canada

Once the Consent is signed
On October 25th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Once the Consent is signed by all parties, it will be on Docket and available to all. It would be premature to release any such document when it has not been official.

A consent judgment, or agreed judgment, is a final decision that is entered on agreement of the litigants; is examined and evaluated by the court; and, if sanctioned by the court, is ordered to be recorded as a binding judgment. A consent judgment is a final, binding judgment in a case in which both parties agree, by stipulation, to a particular outcome. A consent judgment is used in order to settle an issue before a court and to end litigation

Once the Consent is signed
On October 26th, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

Please forgive me for my ignorance of the process. Is my understanding correct that as Mr. Nagib and Mr. Alnaz have given their consent to Mr. Brian for his motion to win and as Mr. Nagib is already signed the motion papers then why is there so much delay to make the final announcement when Mr. Nagib and Mr. Alnaz have already agreed?

* Canada

Nagib and Alnaz have agreed
On October 26th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Nagib and Alnaz have agreed to sign what the Imam told them to sign. Not more, not less. The Imam has been precise in his instructions. And these are the instructions they have followed.

However The lawyer Gray, is disputing what the Imam said on 15th October. So there will not be any agreement. A consent judgment is what the Imam wants (see definition of consent judgment). According to latest information, Gray does not want to comply with the Imam`s wish to sign a consent judgment, he wants to go for Motion in December.

Nagib and Alnaz have agreed
On October 27th, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

I think Mr. Gray should agree with Imam's instruction. If he does not agree he will have a problem according to rules. If Imam has told him that he wish to sign consent judgment and he says NO, how is that possible? Mr. Nagib and Mr. Alnaz should complain to the court about this and refuse to go for Motion in December.

* Canada

@ Muhammad re: above post of Oct. 27
On October 30th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Brother Muhammad, since Mr. Gray's client is Mr. Sachedina (not Hazer Imam, since an Imam never sues a mureed whose bayyat He has accepted) he will only act according to Mr. Sachedina's instructions and will probably want to prolong this suit as long as possible. Think of the rate at which he bills his clients...
We should really request Mr. Sachedina to follow Hazer Imam's wish.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

UNEXPECTED AND SURPRISING !
On October 26th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

Mr Gray is also bound legally to follow Imam's instructions. Maybe Mr Gray is trying to cross the legal T's and dot the I's. In that drafting process there is some misunderstanding that Mr Gray is disputing what Imam agreed. I hope this is the case and can be resolved between Alnaz and Nagib with the Leaders & Mr Gray.

I hope we will know at some point what were the precise instructions of the Imam and what has been signed by Alnaz and Nagib.

This magnanimty, generousity and fairness shown by the the Imam is I feel touched and proud to say also unprecedented legally (for Mr Gray too), in Imam's wishes for consent , Instructions, extending the meeting to 25-30 minutes, allowing it to veer from the standard format of discovery etc.

* United Arab Emirates

@ Murad re: above post of Oct. 26
On October 30th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
As I expressed it in my reply to Muhammad (here above), Mr. Gray is only bound to follow Mr. Sachedina's instructions, since Hazer Imam is not the one he is working for...Hazer Imam's instructions, among others, included that the case end now.

* Canada

CONSENT
On October 23rd, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Thank you for the information. Everyone is waiting to reading a copy. I hope Nagib and Alnaz and or the LIF will share a copy when filed. I assume it has been signed by Alnaz and Mr Gray on behalf of Hazar Imam.

* United Arab Emirates

Vision of an electronic secure access @Ikram @Abdul
On October 22nd, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Mowla said about the knowledge society in Chicago 2008:

"it is immensely important that the Jamat should be forward thinking...so that they become more and more not only part of the knowledge society, but, Inshallah, lead the knowledge society. And when I talk about leading the knowledge society, I am also addressing Myself to the younger generations in the Jamat.."

As Ismailis, we are supposed to "lead" the knowledge society, not drag down those who do good things, let alone bashing them. In the corporate world, in order to survive, you need to lead.

One of TKN project should be, like banks do, to give a secure access to each ismaili, to Mowla's Farmans. Our youth's creativity and skills should be put into advancing our community into the atomic age. When they go to bed, they should be able to immerse themselves with our Imam's vision. Otherwise they will be glued to their television set or Nintendo and we will end up a "mediocre" community!

* Canada

Farmans online & TKN
On October 24th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

TKN is where ismailies have offered and pledged their time and knowledge for projects. So if there was a project to give access to Farmans online by for example ITREB or IIS. If after the project report was approved, and individuals were needed with certain skills then the TKN team will give details to ITREB -IIS who will then decide and select the team for the project. The project report for printing a book of Farmans will have been or is being prepared since Hazar Imam gave approval according to Dr Sachedina. Maybe this includes consideration of online access which has many advantages and in line with Imams wishes in your quotation and a significant saving of costs and a wider and targeted access and dissemination. This saving can be used towards Mawla's GJ goals or as the leaders consider best. There may also be some concerns which will also have been or need to be considered and addressed.

* United Arab Emirates

@Momin
On October 24th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

You are right Momin, there should be a team of dedicated Murids, but directly under Mowlana Hazar Imam and absolutely not under SS because he has shown no understanding of what a Farman is: It is God's word and cannot be edited, distorted, or play politics and power trip over it!

Also a paper version is not incompatible with an electronic version. I particularly liked the mp3 feature on Golden Kiz! I hope our future generations will show great creativity and will be under Mowla himself directly for this kind of project!

* Canada

EDITOR SAYS IT IS DANGEROUS FOR MURIDS TO KEEP THE BOOK ! WHY?
On October 22nd, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

NEWS EDITOR OF VANCOUVERITTE SAYS- But we also don’t know the authenticity of the contents of this book (remember that there is no forensic verification of the farmans in this book) that have not been reviewed by any authority so far. The danger is that 5,800 books can reach an awful number of people. It is dangerous to leave these books in so many hands and I think the soundest thing would be turn it over to someone in authority. The odd part – from my recollection – is that the book was to be returned by those who bought it. Correct me if I am wrong here. Now we hear it is OK to possess an illegally printed book. The fundamental idea would be to remove it from circulation. Period. The implication of the off the record conversation as reported by these folks is that a partial theft has been okayed? This is why we need some collaboration of the wishes of HH.
BLOGLAW REPLY - Editor : It has been established and you have agreed that there is no LIF announcement or statement that those who bought the book should return them let alone that the books are illegally held by them
IS BOOK AUTHENTIC ? : This has not been the issue in Court. Leaders have had the book well before the lawsuit and so did IIS. Surely the Farmans will (and should) have been verified as a first step (priority) before the lawsuit was filed. If this has still not been done then this can be added to the increasing number of gaps highlighted so far. Would you agree ?
IS BOOK DANGEROUS ? : Why do you conclude it is dangerous to leave these Farman books with Ismailies. What is the basis of your conclusion. What will Ismailies who have the book do with the book which is dangerous ? Please enlighten us. If you have heard this from the leaders the Jamat would be especially interested. This is not taking into account that our Imam has full confidence and trust in his murids. We should too.
IS BOOK ILLEGAL ? : The book is legal BECAUSE . Imam has given his consent for murids who have the book to keep the book.. There is therefore no question of theft. this is a consent order (A record of an agreement between the parties to an action).
CORROBORATION ? : The guidance and directions given by Hazar Imam in the 30 minute meeting will be corroborated by the consent order and hopefully with an institutional announcement through LIF. Meanwhile there is no reason to question the accuracy of the summary or understanding shared.

* United Kingdom

Bloglaw' s above post of Oct. 22nd
On October 23rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ah, Bloglaw, thank you ever so much for your tireless efforts to reply to all the remarks of this news editor whenever there is a need to! You are all the more to be commended that you do this no matter where you are on this planet! Good job, Bloglaw! Mowla tamnè sukhi raakhè! Ameen! You are doing a great service to everyone. Your perseverance is admirable.
Keep it up, Bloglaw.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Farmans are our heart
On October 22nd, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

I think that the people who came up with the book did a better job than any ITREB or IIS. They did it out of love and devotion and where careful about the authenticity of Farmans. Imam's Farmans are Farmans wether they come from an "authorized" person or not, specially when that "authorized" person just puts them in a drawer for years and just sits on them eternally.

Mowlana Hazar Imam said in India in 1992: (again, it is such an important Farman, our officials did not bring it to the Jamat)

"This is a complex Farman. Not many of you perhaps will feel comfortable with having understood the Farman in its completeness today. Listen to it, I hope the translation will be good, think about it, discuss it with your children, discuss it with your grandchildren, if they are old enough to think in these terms, and prepare them to see the way ahead, wisely and properly, because there is much opportunity, there are also perhaps risks. But what would be wrong is if you did not consider the changes ahead or you did not prepare for it. And therefore I am making this Farman to My Jamat in India today.

This Farman is not specific to India, in the sense that these changes will occur in other parts of the world. But I am happy to make this Farman today."

* Canada

EDITOR SAYS IT IS DANGEROUS FOR MURIDS TO KEEP THE BOOK ! WHY?
On October 22nd, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Bravo Mr Bloglaw, your comments are always and have been the ice on the cake. But what can you do with people who do not understand the Farmans, with the chamchas of the leader who says that a Farman becomes Farman when it's edited. it's hopeless. So let them bark.

* Canada

@Rabya
On October 29th, 2010 Nick (not verified) says:

Very Well said; " with the chamchas of the leader who says that a Farman becomes Farman when it's edited. it's hopeless. So let them bark"

Bloglaw gives reasoned
On October 23rd, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

Bloglaw gives reasoned responses with respect despite being insulted and being called names. This is only a handfull who are posting on vancouveritte including sadly the Editor. Dont worry about what they say and the best way is to continue to give reasoned reponses which are read and followed by increasing numbers.

Shukhr Mawla The case is coming to an end and I hope that the directions and guidance given by the Imam will be accepted & ACTIONED by the leaders whole heartedly.

* United Arab Emirates

Comments option on this website needs to be shut
On October 22nd, 2010 Iman (not verified) says:

Now that Imam has met with the two defendants and has given them appropriate guidelines I think the comments option has to be shut down on this website. Instead let the jamat surf this beautiful website for ginans, speeches and other literature which this website has to offer.

Failing to shut this comments option will be like a vicious circle where we will comment and then vancouverite will reply and tit for tat policy will prevail for god knows how long. Instead lets get together and achieve our goal which is practice our faith and leave everything behind us.

* United Kingdom

Perhaps this should apply to
On October 22nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Perhaps this should apply to all the web sites talking of that subject else it would not be fair. But yes this would be the right thing to do in view of the desire of the Imam to put this matter to rest. Will they all shut the comments?

Re: above post of librarian-umed of Oct. 22nd
On October 23rd, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Could we possibly wait until the consent of judgment (I hope I used the proper terms :-) ) has been finalized and agreed to before we close the comments on this topic, librarian-umed ? And certainly, it is only fair that this page be closed only if other websites close theirs too...

* Canada

Debate is healthy & contributes in many ways....
On October 22nd, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

Others will not stop or berespectful or be fair if comments are shut on one site. Murids will not have a rich diversity of views. And we will be going backwards into the hush hush & fear culture. We should all debate openly, constructively & with respect. This should be welcomed by the leaders as it is by murids becuase they will have enabling information to serve the needs of the Jamat better. This will also contribute to changing the social mindset Imam talked about. This will also act as the checks and balances Imam refers to in farmans and the recent lecture. We should not try to cover up history which some on other sites have suggested. There is also a need for a platform in which leaders also participate where we use the internet proactively to learn, inform and for leaders to lead. Imam reminded us recently not use the internet to misinform or mislead.

* United Arab Emirates

@Nagib, Al Naz, Rabiya, Yasmin, Alibhai Jiwani, Abdul, Bloglaw……
On October 22nd, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

It is evident that all of you have immense, ecstatic Love for Imam E Zaman. Here is what is stated in Quran, Farmans of MSMS and Maulana Rumi about this Love.
1. ‘The present world is naught but a game’(Quran: 47.36)
2. ‘Have you heard how Khidr broke the planks of the ship to save it from the hands of the tyrant? ‘(Quran: 18:72, 80)
3. ‘ The Khidr of your time is Love’(Divan e Shams Tabrez)

Allah’s love for man and man’s love for Allah is very well said in this verse of Quran.
4. ‘Allah will bring people whom He loves and who loves Him, humble towards believers, disdainful towards the unbelievers, men who struggle in the path of Allah, not fearing the reproach of any reproachers.’(45. 54)
Rumi employs the term ‘poverty’ in a context synonymous with ‘nonexistence’ or ‘annihilation’ in Him through Love, and he writes in Fihi ma Fihi(discourses of Rumi) as follows:
‘But when you enter the world of poverty and practice it, Allah bestows upon you kingdom and worlds that you never Imagined…’ (Fihi ma Fihi 145-46/ 154)
5.’Love cannot be contained within our speaking or listening. Love is an ocean whose depths cannot be plumbed. Would you try to count the drops of the sea? Before that Ocean of Love the seven seas are nothing’. (Mathnavi Maulana Rumi)

And now following Farmans of MSMS in Gujarati:

1. ‘કદાચ ઈશ્ક અને મહોબત હશે અને ઈબાદત ઓછી હશે તો કંઈ પણ ફીકર નથી, પણ ઈશ્ક અને મહોબત રાખવી તેમાં ઈબાદત કરતાવધારે ફાયદો છે. (જંગબાર 4-8-1914)
2. ‘ધર્મ છે તે પ્યારની ચીજ છે.(મુંબઈ 31-1-1926‌)
3. ‘તમે હંમેશા અમારા ઉપર ઈશ્ક અને મહોબત રાખજો. જેમ અમે તમારા ઉપર મહોબત રાખીએ છીએ, તેમ તમે તમારા રૂહાની પિતા પ્રત્યે ઈશ્ક રાખજો. (મુંબઈ9-2-1936)
4. ‘અલી અને નબીના ગાદીવારસ ઉપર તમારૂ ઈમાન મજબુત રાખજો. મહમદ અને અલીના વંશ પર જેઓ બીરાજે છે તેના ઉપર પ્યાર રાખશો તો તમને દુનિયામાં કોઈ ડર રહેશે નહિ. આ એક ફરમાનમાં ઈબાદત, બંદગી અને મઝહબની બધી ખૂબીઓ આવી જાય છે’.(દારેસ્સલામ 3-2-1937)
5. ‘તમે તમારા હાઝર ઈમામ પ્રત્યે ઈશ્ક રાખો, તેથી ઉત્તમ બીજું કાંઈ નથી. તમે મૌલાના ઈશ્કમાં હંમેશા મદહોશ રહો.( દારેસ્સલામ 15-2-1937)
6. ‘તમે નેક આમાલ કરજો... અમારા ફરમાન ઉપર ચાલજો. તમે ખુદાવંતઆલા પ્રત્યે મહોબ્બત તથા ઈશ્ક રાખો’(જંગબાર, 7-9-1885)
7. ‘નબી અને અલી જે આલ, જે ગાદીવારસ છે તેની મહોબ્બત અને હુબ વગર કોઈ ઈબાદત બંદગી કબુલ થતી નથી’(મુંબૈઈ 8-9-1885)
8. તમારો દીન પુસ્તકો ઉપરથી શરૂ થયો નથી, પરંતુ તે મહોબ્બતમાંથી ઉત્પન્ન થએલ છે.”(જંગબાર 1- 7-1899)

It is clear from all above that lovers of Imam E Zaman do not fear anybody for they are protected and guided by Him at each and every step, and are in a position to face any tyrants and do not reproach.

Kasamali's above post of Oct. 22nd
On October 23rd, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for reminding us of these beautiful farman extracts, brother Kasamali. The first one is so reassuring and so comforting...It reminds me of the chapter on Iman in Risala dar haqiqati din...I am grateful too that you left them in Gujarati, and did not translate them, in case "ghèr ismailiyo aa vaanchè. Sat panth no pardo raakhavaanun chhè..." Again, thank you.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

sath panth
On October 24th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

I agree with you brother Abdullah, the language of Sath panth is universal and can be found in christianism, judaism and all other religions. It is the love that Kassamali is referring to. Love, Truth, Unity, forebearence, patience, dialogue, service to the poor and weak, search for spiritual enlightenment. These are our ismaili Sath Panthi values and Mowla is spreading them throughout the world by word and actions.

* Canada

I feel it should be
On October 23rd, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

I feel it should be translated in english for all ismailies to read and enjoy. Remember non ismailies who want to read can get it translated and if they read they will respect Imam and our community more.

* United Arab Emirates

Knowledge and love of the Imam
On October 22nd, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Thank you Kassamali, that is the spirit of Ismailism!

What better thing than the knowledge of the Imam (His Farmans ) coupled with his unconditionnal love.

No bureaucracy, no greed, no bashing, no bad words......

* Canada

@Kassamali
On October 22nd, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Mr Kassamali. Thank you for your kind words. As Umed said let's all work together. Let us all also make Our Beloved Hazar Imam always happy, He loves all His Murids. I would like to thank Umed of this "great website", I feel nice when I read such positive postings. Once again, Thank You All.

* Canada

EDITOR NOT HAPPY WITH IMAMS WISHES ? DR SS? MR MM?
On October 22nd, 2010 Karim Ali (not verified) says:

layman October 21, 2010
The LIF announcements did not instruct the Jamati members as to what to do with the books they have purchased. The announcements only asked the Jamat to avoid purchasing these books but nothing on what to do with the ones purchased. The only books that were asked to be returned (through the statement of claim and subsequently announced through LIF in JKs) were the remaining unsold books with the defendants to the IIS.

Reply News Editor October 21, 2010 - 11:23 AM
Thank you. That clarifies the situation. But a staggering number of books were sold to Ismailis who buy all kinds of anything with “Imam” in it. Pictures, books, trinkets…you name it. There is a whole industry run by cottage Ismailis.

Reply bloglaw October 21, 2010 - 11:31 PM .

It would be interesting to know and learn about the alleged industry run by cottage Ismailies. Have the 2 leaders or other leaders shared this with you ?
More important. Since you know this, the Ismailies and the Leaders know this. And if so, what have the leaders done to stop them?. And if not why not ?. Why are you unhappy with imams decision and wishes for Ismailies to keep this book ? Are the 2 leaders unhappy too ? Why has there never been any announcement to return the books ? Finally why are the Leaders happy to allow other cottage Ismailies (if they really exist) to continue but not so in this case ?

* United Arab Emirates

@Abdul
On October 21st, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

And if those corporate leaders and particularly SS believes in the One Noor of the Imams, then it should be obvious to him that previous Imams' Farmans are our present Imam's Farmans.

Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah said:

"After listening these Farmans of Mine, think about them in your
hearts. Do not let them, in from one ear to get out from the other.
After listening My Farmans, even if one person acts according to
them, that would be enough for Me.

* Canada

The path forward and the 30 minute meeting with Hazar Imam
On October 21st, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I have been thinking and it is not surprising many are confused. So here are possible explanations for consideration

1 Leaders did not wish to, nor wish Hazar Imam to have a meeting or for this case to be settled out of court. They will have given reasons such as ;

a. If there is a meeting many others will follow and ask for meetings

b. Imam has written the letters and given affirmationthat that Imam will not meet his 2 murids. A meeting will affect the Imam’s and especially the leaders credibility with the Jamat, and also with and that of Mr Gray too.

c. If there is a settlement many others will print and distribute similar and tariquah related books.

d. If there is a meeting or a settlement Leaders, the Jamat will not respect leaders.

e. Mr Gray’s advice is not to settle and fight this case to ensure future copyright is protected

f. These murids are setting up a parallel religion and Ismaili institution and following.

g. These 2 murids have not respected the leader and the institutions in question in the past

I will not comment on the merits of each of the above reasons, because Imam has decided on them all be agreeing to have a meeting and ending the case

2 However what Imam decided and directed is against the wishes and what the leaders preferred and recomended. Therefoe big question is if (and to what extent) there will be some natural and passive resistance from the two or more leaders. If so then this is motivated by resentment and grievances (against the Imam’s wishes and vision) steeped in a traditional mindset and social egos . “…Institutional reforms will have lasting meaning only when there is a social mindset to sustain them”

3 On the same evening Imam delivered a lecture. I sincerely believe there was also wisdom and guidance for our institutions and leaders so that they are better enabled to exercise their obligations in the best interests of the Jamat with checks and balances to bridge the gaps. In that lecture Imam also reminded us of human limitations, and of the divine, amongst others

Last but not the least, the following two relevant and significant quotes from the Imam on the same day . Imam murids to be heard. Leaders to listen. Murids and leaders both to observe and learn. Most important to work together to bridge divisions wherever they are and in whatever form or shape they appear.

“…. The right to be heard implies an obligation to listen – and, beyond that, a proactive obligation to observe and to learn .

..one of the most important tests of moral leadership is whether our leaders are working to widen divisions – or to bridge them...”

I hope everyone will carefully study Imam’s lecture,interview and workshop. I hope appropriate parts of Imam's vision and guidance is being used in LOP sessions for strategic reviews of the plans and path ahead. Also for students and the Youth such sessions will be immensly appreciated and will be of value.

* United Kingdom

@bloglaw
On October 21st, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

The Imam’s guidance for the development of a harmonious community are clearly spelt out in the address he made the same day that he chose to end the lawsuit. It is therefore incumbent, at the least, for SS, as the head of the Jamaati Institutions, to embrace His words and implement the process of empowerment of the Ismaili institutions.

1. It begins by stopping those who demonise anyone who dares to disagree with the leadership. The Imam specifically singles out such people in His speech. Our institution should be models of pluralism, allowing for a multiplicity of idea, of forums for healthy listening and being listened to. In the future, unless Mowla Himself says so, no leader or otherwise should be able to silence opposition by labelling it “anti-mowla”. SS should make it clear that other than the Imam, everyone else is fallible and therefore capable of making mistakes.He should stop leaders from using proxies, such as the Editor of Vancouvrite who proudly admits to being a mouthpiece for them.

2. SS should mandate world-wide jamaati institutions do study-sessions of the speech to figure out how they can build it into their operations. (and if SS does not do it because he is afraid of being criticised for this lawsuit fiasco, then the local leaders should do it anyway-they have Mowla’s approval in His speech)

3. Institutions should seriously consider a process that allows anonymous evaluation of leadership. It should not only be top down. Many community organisations have mechanism in place for this. Lets adopt. Lets not wait for whispered “hidayats”. We have a public call by the Imam.

Will these steps happen? Don’t hold your breath. Why? Because whilst Mowla’s speech resonates globally and His wisdom will be used by many, the Ismaili jamaati leadership is made up of timid “followers” who are afraid to think for themselves and only jump when someone higher up tells them to do so. It is not an understatement to say that Ismailis leaders are “zeros” compared to the great intellectual personality that is our Mowla.

In public gatherings, they are usually clueless and ride the coat-tails of Mowla’s name as their calling card, to enhance their own personal profile. And when an Ismaili achieves success in the “mainstream”, the leaders promptly “christian” him or her, as a good Ismaili and try to take credit, even when that person has risen on their own personal credentials.

Listening to Mowla speak and then looking at the some of the sorry bunch of selfish, half-baked social climbers who lead us, it almost makes one want to cry.

* Seychelles

We are not here to judge anyone's Faith
On October 22nd, 2010 heritage says:

We are not here to judge anyone's Faith. The Imam does not give up on Murids. He wants all murids to work together. Instead of taking a firm immovable stand, let us come together to find ways of working together while respecting our differences.

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

We are not here to judge anyone's Faith
On October 22nd, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

You are right Admin, Mr Abdul and Mr Bloglaw are right too. But we are waiting for some news from the defendants and the leaders, What about the consent, is it signed??

* Canada

What is needed is meaningful change
On October 22nd, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

You and Bloglaw have hit the nail on the head.

Imam in the lecture (& Farmans) has given guidance on institutional structures, reform and change. There will be no meaningful change untill the leaders change or there is a change in their social mindset. As a result of this lawsuit all leaders have received excellent and credible feedback. Maybe earler leaders had no reason to. They now have every reason to be proactive and address the 2 root causes and reverse the trend of the widening gap in the ground realities (to borrow the expression from Bloglaw)

To address the root causes and reverse the gaps, Mawla has provided the vehicles to the leaders in the form of advice, mechanisms, guidance and resources.

Thank you and Bloglaw for capturing the essence.These are appreciated by murids and I am sure by most leaders who are reading these or receiving them.

* United Arab Emirates

FUNDADAMENTAL QUESTIONS THAT REMAIN
On October 20th, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

Now that Mr. Tajdin has made his peace with his Murshid, is it appropriate to ask what will happen about the issues raised in the documents filed in court, X-exam of SS and AB as well as Tajdin & Jiwa? These were fundamental questions of faith and Ismailis cannot hide their discomfort by having collective myopia, even as they celebrate the wisdom of Imam to settle this matter amicably.

Ismailis follow the Imam because of He is all-knowing and thereby, capable of giving divine guidance to them.

Therefore:

1. Imam was always aware of Tajdin’s Farman book in the Alibhai’s plate during the Mehmani.

The filing of the lawsuit shows that SS did not believe that. And those who still condemn Tajdin and Jiwa do not believe that either. Are they true momins if they doubt the fundamental tenant of the faith? There can be no dancing around on this point. Tajdin believed it and was vindicated in his Mulaqat. Are the rest going to get away with fuzzy concepts of “worldly” and “spiritually”. Has the Imam himself ever dissected His life activities into two?

2. The Imam does not “think in French and speak in English”.

He dwells in the realm where language is immaterial.
Obviously, SS (and most of the current ‘corporate” leaders as well, otherwise they would have rejected SS) do not really believe that. And sadly, it must be assumed that the Ismaili missionaries (and the Tariqa Board) also pay lip service to the fundamental concept of Sath Panthi Ismailism, since they, too, have chosen to remain quite in the face of this blasphemy.

3. The Imam’s hand doesn’t shake when he signs nor do ski accidents affect his writing skills.

It is OK for Mr. Grey to make up such absurd defences (lawyers are paid high fees to attack the other side-truth is not their normal objective) but for the Head of the Jamaati Organisations Secretariat, SS, to allow such a fundamental attack on the holy personage of the Imam, is the height of hypocrisy. Either SS unequivocally believes in the Imamat or he is just another opportunist, who has attained the power that goes with his position through pretence (and “chamchagiri or as the young Ismailis say it, “brown-nosing”). Mowla may have saved his hide but he should have the decency to resign.

4. Farmans are only farmans after they have been edited.

This has to be the most absurd position put forward by SS. To true believers, the Imam’s spoken word is a pearl of eternal wisdom. It cannot need editing. Period.

5. The ITREB (Ismailia Tariqa and Religious Education Board) does not get to distribute farmans but IIS (Institute of Ismaili Studies) gets copies of all farmans.

The Constitution appoints ITREB as the sole body to distribute farmans. Imam has provided Ismailis with a constitution not as a joke. He believes in empowering communities to learn to live in harmony. So why did the leadership make the distribution of Farmans such a mess that the Imam feels that Mr. Tajdin may be more effective? Whose head is on the line here?

And you should ask, since when did non-Ismaili historians and researchers at IIS become the guardians of the Sat Panth faith? Since when the likes of the great Ismaili missionaries like Abualy and the Merchants went out of favour with leaders like SS.

So the bottom line is this…the corporatisation of the Ismailism may agree with the MBA’s of the Ismaili world but it goes against the grain of a faith-based community. Either the leaders accept the Imam’s divinity in everything He says and does or else they should accept that it is hypocrital for them to remain as leaders and vacate.

Sorry to rain on the feel-good party, momins….. but these questions haven’t gone away.

* Seychelles

fundamental questions
On October 24th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Abdul, you really laid out some fundamental issues in these 5 points.

Hazar Imam always emphasized the need for us to be clear in our minds that we have two parts: the material and the spiritual.

When someone is appointed to a position of decision making and leadership, his name is put forward because he has been successful in the material part of his life. He is either a good businessman, or has achieved a good education and career. The vacuum here is the spiritual and ethical qualities, and the knowledge of the fundamentals or basics of our faith that he may be lacking.

Perhaps, a supplementary training including these spiritual values and knowledge should go with every appointment in the Jamat.

In Pakistan 2000 Mowlana Hazar Imam said:

".....What this means is that seeking material comfort is entirely legitimate, but it must never become the single purpose of an individual in his or her lifetime....., be regular in the way you interact in society with men and women - with kindness, with thoughtfulness and with generosity – so that during your lifetime, your lifetime in this world, you keep a good and a wise balance between the worldly and the spiritual. I am confident of your happiness if you keep this balance in your lives and therefore, I say to My spiritual children today: don’t let that balance be disturbed by value systems which are not part of our history, our Tariqah. Keep the value systems close to you, and live with them...."

I think this applies to leaders as well!

* Canada

@ Abdul( fundamental questions)
On October 22nd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

I cannot express how happy and impressed I am with your above post.
You have indeed spoken my heart and mind out
thank you for writing so truthfully and beautifully indeed!
please continue
We need intellectuals like you to come forward.
Mashaallah very well analyzed and presented!

* United States

@ Rabiya
On October 20th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

The person who ridiculed you and intends to ostracize is the same person who some time back called Nagib and Al Naz as ‘two idiots’. Again after some few days later commenting upon the write up of ‘ An ordinary Murid’, He worte , ‘ Now there are three idiots. Some time back some other person of that group also expressed unfair remarks about Yasmin.
So you see this person and his ilk have the inveterate habit of giving such ridiculous title to the persons he most despise. His egoism does not allow him to face the truth. He is not only going to deny the truth, but even spare no efforts to twist it.
Next, all lovers of Ali like Nuseri, Mansur Al Haj, and Maulana wer ridiculed by the same so called the protectors of Islam.
So I like the idea of Yasmin to ignore them.
Your sole and only aim
is your beloved Lord
Nothing except Love
of His you can afford.

" PLEASE FOLLOW THE RECENT STEPS OF MAWLANA HAZAR IMAM!"
On October 21st, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. ASIF MOMIN! RE: MS. RABIYA. Mr. Asif Momin, you appear to instigate in your comments, some of the contributors from the Ismaili Heritage as well as the Vancouverite, does it behove you? We all are in process of reconciling our thoughts, sentiments, and emotions. We all are now trying to understand and follow our ground rules and foundation on Ismailism! Please follow the recent steps of Mawlana Hazar Imam!

Why do you have to light fires on issues which are now yesterday’s news and today’ history? Ms. Yasmin has moved on and Ms. Rabiya will also accept the reality and follow her conscience on sense of right and wrong! I know Ms. Rabiya is hurting but her faith will heal her! Mawlana Hazar Imam is always with those who wish to forget and forgive! This is the way to Ismailism!

You cannot appease anyone because appeasement is a long lease to disappointment, disillusionment, and dissatisfaction! What you have done now is to create mischief to harm and ignite raw emotions! Please be charitable, tolerant, and generous! This will be your salvation! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Thank you Asif Momin
On October 20th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

100% right. We don't have time for this kind of remarks. I just pray that Mowla gives them subudi. Ameen. We have to concentrate on the future and what's going to happen now...

* Canada

EDITOR AGREES LEADERS MUST SHARE GUIDANCE & THERE IS A GAP !!
On October 20th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

EDITOR VANCOUVERITE ".. But the point is that in the meantime the good faith of our leadership is being violated and some Ismailis are being led by the nose. This is where a gap in communications needs to be filled. Now, you are a regular here and you know the facts. Others believe everything they read and are congratulating these folks. So I consider the non-information to be problematic.."

Reply bloglaw! October 20, 2010 - 4:59 AM
Editor I agree with you 100% that the leaders and the 2 murids should share information and guidance regarding the 30 minute meeting, with the Jamat to avoid more confusion, and A widening the communication gap.

I do not agree with your or Karim’s assumption that the leaders may have been instructed by Hazar Imam not to share information with leaders or the Jamat in this case (or in other matters). This would be totally inconsistent historically and in accordance with institutional guidance and directives by the Imam. This was also reinforced by the Imam in an open forum in his lecture. He would not advocate sharing etc in such a forum and advocate the opposite to our institutions or for the Jamat ?

I agree with you that the sooner there is an LIF announcement the better. Meanwhile I have no reason to doubt the information shared by Alnaz and Nagib so far in the Heritage website.

I agree with you 100% that we need accurate information and there is a crying need for this. As Imam said in the Lecture that information is available and accessible and inescapable. This can be used for communicating good information and knowledge. Equally for misinformation or To leading and to mislead. .

Therefore the sooner the consent order is filed and there is an LIF announcement, the sooner we will have clarity and accurate information AND everyone including Alnaz and Nagib will help contribute in bridging the widening gap. And the sooner may be I can have my debate :) which I will insist you moderate !

* Malaysia

“THE ISMAILI MUSLIM CONSTITUTION IS WORTH ITS WEIGHT IN GOLD”
On October 19th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Please bear in your minds that these paragraphs are neither dealing with the Ismaili Muslim Arbitration Board nor it is rendering any kind of criticism, nor judgement, nor its judicial impact on the Ismaili Muslim Constitution. Please enlighten and correct me if my finding is not agreeable to you.

We have talked much about the Ismaili Muslim Constitution but sadly speaking, we have not appreciated its eminence and prominence. I am profoundly saddened that the Ismaili Institution has done very little to stress the importance of the Ismaili Muslim Constitution! I do not know how far the Ismaili Muslim Institution has put into effect and put into practice the Ismaili Muslim Constitution. When the moral rights of any Ismaili Muslim are violated, the best course we have seen is to instigate a legal proceeding.

• Some simply feels it is just a document with rules of laws on a community establishment.
• Some merely feels it as a document which is for the name sake.
• Some justly understand it value but feels it is still a document like any certification accumulating fine dust on a bookshelf.
• Some feel it is only good only to excommunicate the Ismaili Muslim who has been defiant and inconsistent with Ismailism.
• Some feel that if they have required signatures on a petition it will give them the privilege with assurance to meet their objective to smear and remove any Ismaili Muslim from Ismaili Muslim Community.
• Some feel that if their rights are infringed by any Ismaili Muslim Institution, the Ismaili Muslim Constitution will offer them the remedy.
• Some feel that vendetta and blood feud give reasonable constitutional rights to invoke the Ismaili Constitution to chastise any Ismaili Muslim.
• Some feel that any level of the Ismaili Muslim Institutions can offer appropriate remedy without invoking the Ismaili Constitution.

The Ismaili Muslim Constitution regulates interactions between the all levels of Ismaili Institutions and Ismaili Muslims. It is important document because it can remove inconsistency with its provisions. The Ismaili Constitution has affirmed of our values.

The Ismaili Muslim Constitution is founded on the rule of laws and entrenches in the rights and freedoms of all Ismaili who believe in enjoying in a free and democratic society. It recognizes primary fundamental freedoms of expression and of association, democratic rights, and legal rights. It recognises equality rights. It recognizes the multicultural heritage of Ismaili Muslims. It is very flexible with education rights. The Ismaili Constitution is worth it weight in gold. The Ismaili Constitution is ordained by Mawlana Hazar Imam and should be treated with reverence and due solemnity. Please do not invoke its rule of laws to incriminate any Ismaili Muslim! It does not behove us! We are a tolerant society with generosity.

"It is by accepting our human limits that we can come to see the other as a fellow seeker of truth and to find common ground in our common quest. Let me emphasize again, however, that spirituality should not become a way of escaping from the world but rather a way of more actively engaging in it. There are a variety of ways in which we can work to build a culture of tolerance in a turbulent time (Aga Khan).

COURTESY (Extract from the speech by Mawlana Hazar imam at the Tutzing evangelical academy in Germany, upon receiving the tolerance award, May 20, 2006, and Canadian charter of rights and freedoms). Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

OUR CONSTITUTION - THE GAP
On October 20th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Thank you for sharing your thoughts Mr Shivji

Regarding awareness and understanding of the constitution. You are not certain. Assuming your views reflect the views of many of the Jamat:(if not most) - Then this demonstrates clearly that the leadership have not fully implimented Imam's guidance and ensured that the Jamat fully understands our constitution. Also there are related rules and policies which are not readily available. If so I am sure you would have requested them and studied them. have you ?
.
Regarding your uncertainty if our constitution has been put into practice by our leadership. You say you do not know if it has been put into practice. Your question seeking this answer is self fulfiling. If you dont know how can you expect other members of the Jamat to know ?

Hence the wideing gaps which needs to be all bridged. And thank you for sharing Imam's quote. 4 year on look and the wonderful similarity and succint distintion advocated by Hazar Imamin talking about human limitations and the Divine. (see my earlier post below)

* Malaysia

Cant get a copy of of the Constitution ?
On October 22nd, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

Mr Shivji says in the heritage site he tried to get a copy of the consitution and was not able to get a copy of the constitution. Mr Shivji you say you were refered to the internet. So MR Shivjee got a copy of the earlier constitution and relying on that to understand and comment

The last consitution was available for sale at many JK's and in libraries. You should send an email to your national ITREB Chair and President to request a copy or where you can get access, and to make them aware If you cant (which I doubt & hope is not the case) you can inform HQ at Aiglemont.

If any one cant get access to Farmans, books or information, then they should feel free and comfortable to first make a request to their Local Mukhi/ITREB, who should proactively facilitate and make every effort to assist and provide access.

* United Arab Emirates

My Intake
On October 19th, 2010 Babu (not verified) says:

My intake:

Everything happens for a reason. Both Alnaz and Nagib's hardship for the last 6 months paid them well off then expected.

They asked for 5 minutes with Mowla but they got 30 minutues.

Nagib's hard work was appreciated and approved by Mowla because He said that the Firman books can be kept.

Promotion for Nagib, because Mowla said he wants to work with him in future and inshallah more meetings with Mowla which otherwise would not have happened.

What I am wondering is how SS approached Mowla and confessed his forgery. I guess he must have had a private meeting with Mowla (before meeting Nagib and Alnaz) and must have fallen under Mowla's feet and cried like a child for his forgiveness. Mowla must have said not to worry and He will handle everything. Just my imagination.

It all comes down to abuse of power, jealousy and ego.

* Canada

TIMETO BRIDGE, TO BUILD, TO SHARE AND TO BE PROACTIVE !
On October 19th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Imam shared profound wisdom and guidance in His lecture and interview on the same day He settled the case. I summarise below excerpts from the lecture which are relevant to the lawsuit and to all of us. If anyone thinks these are not relevant to, the lawsuit, Momins, leaders or our institutions, Please listen to the entire lecture and the interview at least twice or thrice, and then think again.

I hope Imam’s guidance for 30 minutes,and the consent order will be shared with the Jamat sooner rather than later. This will stop unhealthy speculation because everyone will know for certain. Therefore everyone should then l work towards bridging divisions and differences (& not to widen them)

Quotes “On the institutional level, we can begin by looking at the structures of public governance. “…INSTITUTIONAL REFORMS WILL HAVE LASTING MEANING ONLY WHEN THERE IS A SOCIAL MINDSET TO SUSTAIN THEM. There is a profound reciprocal relationship between institutional and cultural variables. How we think shapes our institutions. … How we see the past is an important part of this mindset.

A sense of historic identity can immensely enrich our lives. But we also know how myopic commitments to “identity” can turn poisonous when they are dominated by bad memories, steeped in grievance and resentment. The marginalization of peoples can then become a malignant process, as people define themselves by what they are against. The question of “Who am I?” is quickly transformed into “Who is my enemy? ”

“…. THE RIGHT TO BE HEARD IMPLIES AN OBLIGATION TO LISTEN – AND, BEYOND THAT, A PROACTIVE OBLIGATION TO OBSERVE AND TO LEARN .
..ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT TESTS OF MORAL LEADERSHIP IS WHETHER OUR LEADERS ARE WORKING TO WIDEN DIVISIONS – OR TO BRIDGE THEM...

…In sum, what we must seek and share is what I have called “a cosmopolitan ethic,” a readiness to accept the complexity of human society. It is an ethic which balances rights and duties. It is an ethic for all peoples. It will not surprise you to have me say that such an ethic can grow with enormous power out of the spiritual dimensions of our lives. IN ACKNOWLEDGING THE IMMENSITY OF THE DIVINE, WE WILL ALSO COME TO ACKNOWLEDGE OUR HUMAN LIMITATIONS, THE INCOMPLETE NATURE OF HUMAN UNDERSTANDING. In that light, the amazing diversity of Creation itself can be seen as a great gift to us – not a cause for anxiety but a source of delight.

EVEN THE DIVERSITY OF OUR RELIGIOUS INTERPRETATIONS CAN BE GREETED AS SOMETHING TO SHARE WITH ONE ANOTHER – RATHER THAN SOMETHING TO FEAR. IN THIS SPIRIT OF HUMILITY AND HOSPITALITY – THE STRANGER WILL BE WELCOMED AND RESPECTED, RATHER THAN SUBDUED – OR IGNORED …”

As Adrienne Clarkson said at this lecture in 2007, we cannot count on the power of “love” to solve our problems – as important as that quality is. A part of our challenge, as she said, is learning to live and work with people we may not particularly like!” ..TO DO SO WILL REQUIRE CONCERTED, DELIBERATE EFFORTS TO BUILD SOCIAL INSTITUTIONS AND CULTURAL HABITS (MINDSET) WHICH TAKE ACCOUNT OF DIFFERENCE, WHICH SEE DIVERSITY AS AN OPPORTUNITY RATHER THAN A BURDEN..”

IMAM KNOWS IMAM KNOWS BEST AND WE ARE ALL BLESSED ALHAMDULLILAH AMEEN !

* Malaysia

This case has now been
On October 18th, 2010 Concerned Momin (not verified) says:

This case has now been ended. Sukhur mowla!!!

"Lets not judge."

Lets move on now and say more salwat and be peaceful and spread the peace around the world.

Peace and Happiness

* Canada

excommunication
On October 18th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

I have been excommunicated by vancouverite soulmate regarding my comment of October 16 about ottawa citizen. Mr soulmate I am happy that I have the honour like Mr Bloglaw to get quoted by you, it's because my comments are right and it is hurting you. It's not the fist time that you are hurt by my quotes. The true prevails and is prevailing, you should accept defeat and be humble instead of insulting people. Do you have a divine right to get me expelled or a divine inspiration. Who are you to excommunicate me. Admin, I hope that you will post this comment. I don't want any trouble but this is too much. Thank you

* Canada

thank you Yasmin
On October 18th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

I am not upset, of course Alnaz and Nagib are the examples to follow, their ''sabar'' was and is extraordinary. I hope that the end of this case will bring some changes in the leaders' perception and behaviour towards the Jamat, it will bring some changes in the institutions (councils, tariqas), less musical chairs. Anyway, we continue to pray and will see what happens next.

* Canada

@Rabya
On October 18th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Rabya. Please don't get upset. Take the example of Nagib and Alnaz, who were sevadaris and good Murids, the issue was publishing a Farman Book and distributing, and look at the way they were treated by some community members and also some of the editors and contributors of websites. Some of them wanted them also to be "excommunicated". In the end what happened, they were "blessed", by Our Beloved Hazar Imam. Don't get upset, just pray for them. Thank you.

* Canada

@ Murad
On October 18th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ya Aly madad, Murad! Mohez Nato has posted another comment in French (the title of it is "@ Kanize and @ Rabya", Oct. 17) and is allowing that it be translated in English; do you think you could provide the visitors of this page with the English translation of it as you did some weeks ago through your software?? If you can't, don't worry.

We haven't read you for quite a while, Murad, if I am not mistaken. I hope all is well with you. Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

IMMENSE IMPLICATIONS
On October 17th, 2010 dumbfounded (not verified) says:

I commented on May 13th under subject "whodunit?....... Imam or true believer (Literal transalation)"
and my suggestion then was:
"May I suggest a private sitting with the Imam and the defendants sometime in the upcoming visit to Canada. I could almost guarantee a super positive resolution! We already have indications from the defendants of their goodwill towards the Imam."

What has transpired in the last few months has immense implications, "IMMENSE IMPLICATIONS"

At the end of the meeting: quote! "The meeting ended with warm greetings and smiles. Imam left happy, saying "we will meet and work together". "Khouda Hafiz". end quote!
It surely seems like that the IMAM reached his desired goal!

I read, that we are reaching a turning point, we are going to open up our whole 'Tariqah' slowly but surely, act with honest intent to become an acceptable part of the wider 'UMMAH' as MOWLA has indicated many times prior. Our IMAM is now poised to take on a much more vital role and it is that of providing gravely needed leadership to the wider 'UMMAH'
InshAllah, Mowla's 'Firmans' and guidance will forthwith be shared wider than we have been accustomed to.

* Canada

@Ikram your last comment about the farmans and passwords
On October 17th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

You have quite a vision here, I hope that one day this will happen within our Jamat, but when with those kind of leaders??? For the moment, each farman is in paper version, it's forbidden to type them, each tariqua receives from the national a copy of it, and then they do copies to send to the jamatkhanas, computerizing is forbidden with capital F and you are talking about mp3. Mowla has a vision but the leaders don't follow, they like bureaucracy. I hope and pray, that your wish will be fulfilled. Ameen, probably the next generation will experience this... Your toughts are very interesting.

* Canada

The Vancouverite, The Ismaili.Net, and the ismailimail.wordpress
On October 17th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. ABUZZAR! I did not seek any apology from your good self or anybody! Honestly, speaking the formality and apology is not the issue. My sincere explanation in requesting you to be formal with me is to make you aware that we tend to use religion freely without realising the end result; or how it will be construed by the readers! When we are cornered, we immediately try to salvage our prestige by using the religious conviction. Is it fair!

Regarding PIR SHAH, you tend to suggest that you have enough grey cells like me to decipher any thoughts and comments. On the other hand, you appear to have a journalistic background and are rich in your expression. In India, my upbringing was also fashioned by both Ismailism and Pir Shah and to this day I recite these names from our wonderful tradition.

These under mentioned websites, i.e., the Vancouverite, The Ismaili.Net, and the ismailimail.wordpress.com; have been very kind to me by accepting my thoughts, comments, and narrative articles.

Of course, my thoughts and comments have been, censored, rejected, and have met with the silent snub.

Nevertheless, I have always remained proactive and honest in my expression.
Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Reality Check - Why an announcement sooner rather than later !
On October 17th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

The following shows how important it is for there to be an announcement in JK's by the LIF ?

Nightmare (not verified) Says October 17
The LIF, DJI, Councils and Ismaili Insitutional leaders all over the world should take note that Alnaz Jiwa will never change. The above is partial proof of his continued defiance and a window to his thinking. Alnaz Jiwa, many in the Jamat know your role since 1987. Do you recall the crusade you led against the Council, ITREB, Mukhis, Kamadias and other institutional leaders in 1987?

Do you want me to post some of the excerpts of Alnaz Jiwa bin bloglaw’s “open letters” on Vancouverite? Please say “yes” so the whole world can be aware of Alnaz Jiwa’s role, yes, the same arrogant Alnaz Jiwa who managed to drag the 49th direct descendant of the Prophet in the court; if the Imam had failed to appear, He would have been in “contempt of court”! This is the role of Alnaz Jiwa.

REPLY BY BLOGLAW October 17, 2010

Alnaz Jiwa did not infringe any copyright. He would have frankly won this case in any event. He is repsecting the decision and directions of the Imam. He did not publish the Farman Book. He is like thousands of others who bought the book or gave it to family and friends. Imam has said that all of them can keep the book.

So why do you want to go on a crusade against Alnaz Jiwa more important against the wishes or directions and guidance of the Imam. Why would any of the leaders want to do so either ?

We need a reality check here.

* United Kingdom

IMAMS DECISION MUST BE RESPECTED
On October 17th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

RESPONSE to Editor of vancouveritte who seems to be questioning Hazar Imams decision and directions?

Editor – it seems you are not satisfied and happy with what Hazar imam has decided and what Imam has directed. With respect most will be satisfied and happy. It seems you have some information
which most are not aware of regarding the 30 minute meeting or you are guessing? I will wait for more information and news from any or all who were present at that meeting and or LIF. I am sure most will do the same before jumping to conclusions as you seem to have done?

* United Kingdom

positive aspects of the meeting
On October 17th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

Those who took the meeting between HI and Nagib and Al Naz in a negative sense should know that:

1. HI was not bound to spend half an hour in the meeting, and yet he spent so much time out of his much valuable time.

2. Out of 30 minutes of his time, the official recording was just for 5 minutes only (which was directly related to the court matter), while the rest for guidance. And such guidance was for Nagib.

3. HI could have given even less than one minute for the meeting and would have said,’ Nagib, withdraw the forgery allegation, stop further printing and distribution, and agree to just court proceeding and court verdict then.’ This much was sufficient for Nagib who has no other alternative but to agree as he has given that binding to the court. Just after saying that, without hearing anything from Nagib, He would have left the meeting place.
But HI did not do this but spent five minutes for consented agreement which is to come afterward from the court as ‘consent judgment’, consented by the both parties.

4. During meeting HI said, “We will work together”. What does that mean? Nagib is neither a technical expert nor a management consultant or any thing related to HI’s projects around the world. All what he has done so far all these years is collecting and recording of each and every Farmans of Hazar Imam made by Him in every corner of the world. So working together means his services will be utilized by IIS in future for compiling and printing of Farmans in book form.
Even during cross examination, Dr. Sachedina agreed that Nagib is a part of solution.

5. Mr. Gray, during cross examination of Nagib, suggested that, ‘HI is unhappy and angry at you for this’. If that was the case then HI would have spent not more than a minute with him and Al Naz and this would have served the purpose. On the other hand, Maula was happy and smiling and spent enough time in giving guidance.

6. Who ever has filed the case (Mr. Gray?), he has involved Al Naz as a defendant party too. But when Nagib, by exonerating Al Naz, took every responsibility of printing etc., on himself and said to HI that Al Naz was not involved in it, HI simply said,’ yes, I know this.’ What does it mean? If HI knew that Al Naz was not involved, then how come his name was included as one of the defendants?

7. The meeting ended with warm greetings and smiles and HI was happy and left saying,’ we will meet again and work together’. Aren’t these words and body language of Maula has some specific significance?

8. HI said that copies already bought by Murids can be kept by them. What does it indicate? If these copies are to be thrown away or burnt, then he should have said so.

9. As far as asking of forgiveness by Nagib and Al Naz is concerned, it’s duty of every Murid to seek as much forgiveness of HI at every opportunity one gets. Aren’t we, in our daily jamatkana’s attendance, seek such forgiveness by saying, “ તોબો તોબો તકસીરદાર....બંદો ગુનેહગાર ...ગત બક્ષે શાહ પીર બક્ષે.” ?

10. Some time back, ‘ Another Ordinary Murid’ gave some useful advice to Nagib and Al Naz, and it was very much appreciated by them. This advice worked.

11. Everything happens related to Him, has many meanings and many aspects, and they have long lasting positive implications and outcomes. Why HI, intervened at this stage is better known to Him only. We have a proverb in Gujarati:
“ સામાન્ય માનવી એક કાંકરે એક પંખી પાડે, અનુભવી બાહોશ એક કાંકરે બે પંખી પાડે, પણ ભગવાન એક કાંકરે હજારો પંખી પાડે.”
Meaning: Ordinary human being’s action has one purpose (goal), wise and experienced one’s action has two purposes, but Allah’s action has thousands of purposes

Result of this event is going to be seen over generations.
On October 18th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

This was all Mawla's "leela"

A case that Mawla could have ended in a blink of a second got dragged for 6 months or more with so many revelations witnessed by others but there might be so many unseen by us also.

Nagib and Alnaz proved to be the modern Nusseris and Almuid Shirazi.
Only the future will be witness to the benefits of their (Nagib and Alnaz) deeds.
I think their generations are blessed. ( Nagib and Alnaz)
Only a select few have love enough to undergo this ordeal these 2 momins went through.
It was their intense love which brought Mawla for 30 minutes to them.

Mawla had to maintain the peace and integrity of the world jamat and leadership and Institutions
Nagib and Alnaz might have been the casualties but Mawla is divine he had to save everyone.
They instead of casualties are perhaps the highest benificiaries of this ordeal which is going to be translated into something so remarkable in their Zahiri and Batuni lives that they will be immensely grateful for whatever happened.

It was a "pure crazy love for Mawla" which surpasses hundreds of years of Ibadat.
It was a miracle for Anaz that he got dragged in . He is going to be immensely blessed.
Mawla is Omniscient , omnipotent.
Every action and every word Imam utters or does have meaning underlying
6 months of torure could not be for nothing.

There is a larger picture which only time will witness.
But to me it is all because of His will.These 2 were chosen momins.
Shukhar.To me they are the modern Nusseiris and Almuid Shirazi

* United States

Thank you for sharing. I
On October 17th, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

Thank you for sharing. I hope everyone involved will share this with the Jamat.

* United Arab Emirates

Re: above post of Asif Momin of Oct. 17
On October 17th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
One other positive outcome, if I may add, brother Asif, is that the credibility of the institutions in the eyes of the people outside the jamat is saved from being damaged and hurt as Mr. Sachedina is saved from having to face consequences that would have been most detrimental and so terribly sad for all. Al-hamdulillah! Shukhar Mowla! We are saved.
And if I may also add re: your point # 4, perhaps that work will also include the project of Khojki that was so dear to Mowla Bapa (as indicated in the affidavit of July 14 ).
And, Insh'Allah, from now on, faraamin will no longer be changed before being read to jamats and will be identical to the very words spoken by Hazer Imam during a Darbar or Mulaqat.

Let us hope that the religious education given to Ismaili children will include the basic tenets of the faith, particularly the significance of farman and ginan, the implication and meaning of the bayyat given to Hazer Imam: as some commentators on this site have said it repeatedly, no Imam can ever go against the bayyat given to Him and accepted by Him, and thus, no Imam can ever sue a mureed. Let us also hope that parents will make the effort to send their children to the religious classes and will also sow, themselves, the seed of iman in their children from their very youngest age.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

ottawa citizen
On October 16th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Guys,

I just went to read Ottawa citizen. oh suprise, it's written that Mowla persuaded Nagib and Alnaz that He did not want this book to be published. What a confusion and a twist of things !!! Sachedina did not get the point and Gray does not want to admit that he lost the case, will Sachedina and Manji spread this kind of information around the world and the Jamatkhanas?? This leader is such a liar, he lost all the credibilities. Mowla rahem kare. Ameen

* Canada

Re: above post of rabya of Oct. 16
On October 17th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Merciful Lord! No wonder my instinct was telling me to continue to pray hard...It seems we aren't done with disappointments and distress, alas...Indeed, Mowla rahèm karta rahè...Ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

That article wasn't too bad
On October 16th, 2010 Ikram (not verified) says:

The Ottawa Citizen article was actually somewhat fair I find, at least compared to the drivel written by Vancouverite. Dr. Sachedina definitely didn't get the point though.His cross-examination, especially when related to the concept of Farman, was particularly disturbing. If any such policies start trickling down from the top ...

Also, about Gray not admitting defeat, he's just doing his job of defending his client. For all we know, he's a decent human being. Let's not shoot the messenger shall we?

Now let us pray and wait for what will happen afterward. Perhaps, with Mowla's blessing, the book, or the contents in a different format, can be officially reviewed and published in Jamatkhanas, at the very least to give more Farmans for Mukhi/Kamadias to read during religious ceremonies.

* Canada

That article wasn't too bad
On October 17th, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

Ikram, when your client and here His Highness the Aga Khan (that's what they told us) and our Mowla says to you that we put this matter to rest then it is an order. There is no need to argue with Him and Mr Gray has to accept this. And again we have to be very humble and pray Mowla Subudi diye.Ameen.

* Canada

Put yourself in Gray's shoes
On October 18th, 2010 Ikram (not verified) says:

Consider that you are Brian Gray. As far as you know, you pretty much have an airtight case and your client is proposing to just drop everything rather than see the defendants punished. Of course you're going to argue for the whole thing to continue. Especially if you're not Ismaili and do not understand the concept of Imamat as it applies to Ismailis. I personally think that there is very little to question about Gray's actions and motives in general. Maybe he could have done some things differently, but what's done is done. Not meeting the big boss is fairly standard when the lawsuit involves a somewhat large organisation, as it did in this case, whatever the name of the lawsuit pretends. If Microsoft or Apple sues you, the likelihood that the likes of Bill Gates or Steve Jobs will show up is very small.

Again, this post reflects what I believe is Gray's perspective, this is not a statement of opinion on my part.

* Canada

WILL GUIDANCE TRANSLATION INTO ACTION - THE PATH AHEAD
On October 17th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

What is most important is what happens going forward. If this becomes a hush hush and the leaders in question are allowed to continue as before then they will frustrate the 2 murids, delays, marginalise top down. If however there is change which is translated into action to address the root causes, then we will have change quickly and change for the better.

In His wonderful and inspiring lecture, Imam talked about the path ahead and the discussion after the speech was enlightening. Amongst the issue of institutional structures and review, Imam advised that a key challenge is the mindset of leaders and owners. Mawla talked about predicting, predictability and preempting. Also about enabling beneficiaries (Murids in our case) to become masters of processes where competence and merit are rewarded. Mawla talked about the inescapable explosion of information and of the media and how it can be used to lead and also to mislead.

Imam said He knows about Alnaz's role and talked about meeting again and working together. Therefore I hope there is change and not more of the same. I hope there is an LIF announcement soon so that the Jamat knows and they do not believe some of the misleading information. This will depend on murids (and other leaders) to ask & share where the leaders in question do not share and action what has been agreed or what are the wishes, guidance and directions of the Imam.

I disagree woth you Ikram that we should settle for a few more farmans in JK, when Imam has said all those who have the book can keep the book and of course share it with their family and friends and in the court openly said we have access to farmans. Mukhi's represent the Imam in JK's and have full control in JK's and of their jamat's.The ground realities need to reflect guidance too.

To be fair the article does quote Dr SS or Mr Gray, and we should not speculate what may have been said behind the scenes.

* United Kingdom

More Farmans in JK would be a short term goal
On October 17th, 2010 Ikram (not verified) says:

Having more Farmans in Jamatkhana would be a start, a good first step if you will. I agree that it is not enough, but if the full contents of the book are at least available in all Jamatkhanas within say, the next 3-5 years (allowing for things such as institutional inertia, any further content reviews that may be done, repackaging, infrastructure changes to accommodate a higher volume of materials circulating back and forth, and so on), it will still be a major step forward and a good foundation to build on.

Perhaps these changes would also be a good excuse to improve the communication infrastructure within our Jamat with better, more streamlined processes and technologies to be able to reach more of the Jamat faster. For example, instead of faxing Farmans and carrying tapes around, there could be a password-protected website which stores PDFs and MP3s for leaders and Mukhi/Kamadias to access. Such a system, with some modifications, could also be extended to reach the entire Jamat and could also be used to communicate institutional announcements and guidance much more quickly to Jamats, especially for those living in areas where there is less convenient access to Jamatkhana. A system like that could also drive investment in communication infrastructure in Ismaili communities where there is little access and could position Jamatkhanas in these communities as the place to access global information and expertise. Another example would be to foster worldwide discussions and analysis of Farmans in the Jamat, not only as small groups in Jamatkhana, but as a connected network within the global Jamat in which our scholars and al-Waez can contribute to discussions and disseminate information.

But many of these fit in a long term vision and would need a comprehensive solution, and so a more short term plan like the one I mentioned in my previous post could fill the gap meanwhile.

* Canada

Access farmans @ Ikram
On October 18th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

I hope the end of this case is a catalyst for the begining of the reversal of Institutional inertia. Content review of Farmans should not be a reason not to give access to farmans and to wait for 3-5 years. Some 5000 books are already officially with members of the Jamat as directed by the Imam. There may be other reasons ?

* United Arab Emirates

Will action speak louder than words?
On October 17th, 2010 Murid (not verified) says:

Well said Bloglow Sir/Madam.

The proof of the pudding is the joint responsibility of all the four present to ensure Imams gudance and directions are shared with leaders and the jamat, and most important translated into action.

Jamat and leaders will be happy to get more news from Alnaz. Nagib and LIF/Leadership soon.

* United Kingdom

So what has changed from this time last week?
On October 17th, 2010 shaukat (not verified) says:

Pardon me for being totally lost here (no I was not one of the lucky 33 buried in a mine) but I fail to understand why the sentiment here is no different than it was a week ago - other then perhaps a few more shukars etc. Are all your readers privy to information that even Jamati leaders (not LIF but possibly including them) do not have? How have some concluded that Sachedina and Manji were "chastised" and Nagib and Alnaz exonerated? Pray give us the code to the secret site where they are drawing their information from.

* United Kingdom

Still some details to resolve
On October 16th, 2010 Ikram (not verified) says:

Well, it certainly is a relief that the case has been settled.

However, I still have some questions:

* Why did Alnaz get sued in the first place if MHI knew he wasn't involved in the publication? Did MHI think, let me give Nagib a free lawyer?
* Sachedina, in his cross-examination, stated that Farmans were not Farmans until the published, edited version comes around. Does this mean that all the Farmans that never came out are retroactively removed from history? That many of the jokes MHI made during the Golden Jubilee Farmans were just mistakes? What does this imply for the meaning of Didars? Are they now completely useless?
* Websites and online distribution seemed to be a major concern from the court documents, yet, from what I gather from the settlement post, that wasn't an issue at all for MHI. What's up with that?

There are any number of other discrepancies/unresolved issues, but I feel that those are the main ones.

* Canada

Importance of Farmans
On October 17th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Our Imams have always reminded us of importance of Farmans. What is the logic of depriving the Jamat of it?

Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah said:

"When I open My mouth for Farmans, I am giving you heaps of pearls, but only those momins who pass the test are able to understand the value of these pearls; they understand what thing they have obtained.
In the same way that seeds are sown in the earth, you should sow My Farmans in your heart. They will bear good fruit.
Do not let My Farmans in from one ear and out from the other."

* Canada

Erroneous Conclusion
On October 16th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Some of the commentators at Vancouverite are too impatient. They have arrived at some of the conclusions which are not there at all. Can not they wait for the ‘consented judgment’ from the court? Every thing would be cleared then.

Above post of Nato Mohez (Oct. 15 addressed to Kanize)
On October 16th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

effectivement Kanize, vous avez bien raison, il y a une leçon à tirer de tout cet imbroglio, car je ne peux pas l'appeler procès. J'espère que nos dirigeants vont comprendre le message et je me demande si particulièrement SS a compris la décision de son geste. M Nato vos commentaires ont toujours été judicieux. Hier dans son speech Mowla a parlé des leaders aussi en se demandant s'ils bâtissaient ou s'ils détruisaient. J'ai eu l'impression que c'était destiné à quelqu'un. Enfin, tout est réglé, il ne faut pas oublier que les familles ont subi aussi des revers. J'espère aussi que le Jamat est conscient de ce qui s'est passé hier. Je me demande si on doit s'attendre à une annonce encore du LIF... ce qui m'étonnerait.

Ya ali Madad

* Canada

@kanize,@Rabya
On October 17th, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madat,
Ouf! quel soulagement! Comment retenir ses larmes! Il y a longtemps que ce "lawsuit", oui, Rabia, je ne dis pas procès car je n'aime pas ce terme! ce n'est pas digne et pour Mowla Bapa et pour Sa Communauté! me turlupinait l'esprit! j'étais malheureux!

Mowla Bapa nous a fait deux cadeaux inestimables en venant au Canada! que je vous envie! je crois que je finirais mes vieux jours parmi vous! Mowla vous adore! vous êtes Ses Murids à l'avant garde du progrès des jamats et Il attend, nous aussi attendons beaucoup de vous! Vous êtes Ses Purs MUrids!
La noblesse de son geste envers Nagib et Alnaj releve pour moi d'essence divine! et Son discours sur le Pluralisme, mais quel discours, quelle vision, quelles convictions dites avec modestie, humilité....c'est seulement l'expression de Son Noor lumineux!

Nous devions être fiers d'avoir notre Imam du Temps présent qui repand Ses convictions avec une telle humilité, modestie, sur la diversité, le pluralisme, la méritocratie, la bonne gouvernance, la compassion, la génerosité, l'Islam tolérant et Islam , style de vie et l'équilibre Deen et Dunia! Que tous ces rayons Lumineux , ces étincelles qui brillent dans notre monde bien malade sont aussi pour nous, pour nous protéger et pour nous préparer, nous , nos enfants et petits enfants pour un monde meilleur, apaisé ! pour que Ses disciples vivent en paix, en securité, acceptés partout par ce qu'ils appliquent Ses directives, Ses farmans! Sukrans , Sukrans MOn bien aimé Mowla!

Et dans Sa vision, si le Leasdership pouvait l'aider! nous accompagner! Il est là le temps du changement! beaucoup d'ismailis silencieux attendent ce déclic! pas de rupture brutale mais que le Leadership que l'on ne conteste pas , bien au contraire, sur qui Mowla Bapa a mis toute Sa confiance, ce leadeship applique donc le pluralisme, l'esprit d'équipe, la méritocratie, la diversité même des opinions, accepter toutes les bonnes volontés dans le jamat pour répondre aux besoins du Jamat, aux aspirations de Mowla Bapa,! que l'on s'implique sérieusement sur Sa demande durant les Darbar du GJ sur la pauvreté, la dignité des Seniors, l'avenir ce jeunes générations! Il faut que le Leadership change et s'ouvre plus aux sensibilités de tous les membres du Jamat!

Merci pour vos commentaires gentils à mon egard! je ne suis qu'un simple murid francophone mais j'ai beaucoup de choses à dire à nos leaders francophones,s'ils acceptent la tolérance et la méritocratie!
Que Mowla nous garde tous sur la voie droite du Siratal-Mustaquim

mohez nato
ps je vous autorise à traduire en anglais mes propos

* France

Ouf! quel soulagement
On October 17th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Il faut attendre la suite... Je ne pense pas que le jamat soit conscient ou qu'on soit conscient de la chance qu'on a d'être né Ismaili et d'avoir un Imam pour nous guider à travers ses Farmans. We behave like if it is granted to us. Listen again the speech of Mrs Clarkson, how she introduced MHI. Other communties are waiting for his advices, big names of this world consult him, and we his murids, do not give a darn of what he says... He has to repeat and repeat and repeat again and again the samething every time..

* Canada

Shukar
On October 16th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

What a relief!!! Shukar Mowla for everything, Alnaz and Nagib, this is your day, you have sticked to your point and what you did is what fidais do. This meeting should have been granted in May. But probably Mowla wanted to show us how a leader can be completely wrong in his interpretation of the faith even if he is so close to him. It reminds me again Sultan Mohamed Shah's farman that I already posted on this forum. Shukar Mowla and what a slap for SS. I am wondering how vancouverite will twist the story...

* Canada

Re: above post of rabya of Oct. 16
On October 17th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Touché !! (cf. votre dernière ligne ! :-) ; elle résume si bien tout ce que ce site-là a présenté à date ce me semble !) Insh'Allah, Bloglaw will respond to them :-).
And you might be right in saying that Mowla Bapa probably wanted us to see a few things...But what agony, man! In every way ! If we felt so bad, I wonder how the families of Nagib and Alnaz felt and how they lived these past six months or more...
And I think we still need to pray very hard during the coming days, perhaps weeks, for things to go smoothly and end the way Mowla Bapa would wish it...
Ya Aly madad.
P.S. Thank you for your reply to my post :-).

* Canada

MR. BLOGLAW, YOU WERE CHALLENGING!
On October 16th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. BLOGLAW! I would like to thank you for your kindheartedness to acknowledge my comments and thoughts. I appreciate your fine sentiments. Please convey my apology to all your associates if I was condescending or blunt in my input in Ismaili.Net, and the Vancouverite. I meant no harm and rebuke ness! Thank you and bye for now! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

"THANK YOU AND ALLAH HAFEZ"
On October 16th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, LIBERIAN UMED! I would like to thank you for your kindness in accepting my comments and thoughts. Please convey my apology to all your contributors if I was condescending or blunt in my input in Ismaili.Net. Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

WE BRING DOWN THE CURTAINS ON THIS EPISODE
On October 16th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. NEWS EDITOR! Foremost, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you sincerely from the bottom of my heart for being an excellent moderator, and Guru on newscast. You have weathered the charged emotions, raw sentiments, and reaction with retort ion! You have been very kind to me, and your big-heartedness in accepting all my comments and thoughts. I am very, very grateful to you for this very fine gesture and association.

Secondly, I would like to beg forgiveness of all contributors in the Vancouverite as well as the Ismaili.Net. From this episode, I have experienced bountiful of knowledge and generosity which will be framed in my fond memories!

I do not think I will be able to continue anymore as my sentiment and emotion would be disloyal to me by revealing my soft side! Therefore, I will bring down the curtain on this episode with Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

@Mr Shivji
On October 17th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Mr Shivji, thank you for your postings.

As you said to "bring down the curtains on this episode". We all are Spiritual Children of Our Beloved Hazar Imam, and we should always make Him happy, because He loves each an everyone one of us. May Allah shower His Blessings upon you and may Our Beloved Hazar Imam bless you with His Zaheri and Batuni Deedar, Ameen. Thank you.

* Canada

To reciprocal your good wishes word to word
On October 18th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Yam Ms. Yasmin! I will extend this very opportunity to reciprocal your good wishes word to word! We all are spiritual children of our beloved Hazar imam, and we should always make him happy, because he loves each and everyone one of us.

“May Allah shower his loving blessings upon all Ismaili Muslims and may our beloved Hazar Imam bless us with his zaheri and batuni deedar”, amen! Allah Hafez, Nizar ail K. Shivji!

“To Build a Culture of Tolerance in a Turbulent Time.”
On October 17th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MS YASMIN! I have always believed that Mawlana Hazar Imam wants the Ismaili Muslim Community to always remain united and steadfast in their religious belief by becoming more active, diligent, and tolerant. However, we have to be cautious not to use the religion or our personal belief freely without realising the end result; or how it will be construed by the readers! Some of us have a tendency when we are cornered; we immediately try to salvage our prestige by using the religious conviction. Is it fair?

The world today is teeming with challenges. The better way to face these challenges is to venture into it! It is difficult but by being resilient is way to “To Build a Culture of Tolerance in a Turbulent Time.” As a result, “I BOW TO THE WILL OF ALLAH, AND I PROSTRATE TO HIM!” Everyday my life becomes challenging but there is always a way out.

It will not behove me to keep the Skeleton in the cupboard of bitterness, animosity, hostility, unfriendliness, ill will, and bad blood. The history will definitely judge those who have gone astray and left the path of righteousness!

In concluding, May Allah helps Mr. Nagib Tajdin and Mr. Alnaz I. Jiwa in their quest to become worthy in Ismaili Muslim Community. I have nothing more to say other than, they are our Ismaili brethren!

These under mentioned websites, i.e., the Vancouverite, The Ismaili.Net, and the ismailimail.wordpress.com; have been very kind to me by accepting my thoughts, comments, and narrative articles. Of course, my thoughts and comments have been, censored, rejected, and have met with the silent snub. Nevertheless, I have always remained proactive and honest in my expression. I have never expressed my thoughts and comments in appeasement to others!

I hope, I am not condescending immodest! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

@Mr Shivji
On October 18th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Mr Shivji. Thank you for your kind words. Once again, Thank you.

* Canada

WE CAN DISAGREE BUT WE DO CARE
On October 16th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Mr Shivji All of us went through many challenging moments, tears and emotions. Like you, we all did so because we care. This has been one of the most sensitive and and unprecedented event in pur lives, and a milestone. A new era has begun and for thank we must be thankful to Hazar Imam and to thank especially Nagib, Alnaz, Dr Sachedina and M Manji.

* United Kingdom

A NEW ERA HAS BEGUN!
On October 18th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. BLOGLAW! Of course, a new era has begun! I hope and pray that the Almighty Allah will not subject us to similar trial and tribulations again! I do not understand why our religion, faith, and loyalty were tested in these harsh circumstances! I have pondered and thought about this over and over but the only answer I am getting is that “ALLAH WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS.” This appears to be an unexplained phenomenon!

This new era has made us strong and humbles us in these turbulent times. It teaches to be tolerant and charitable, and gradually moving us away from, arrogance, vanity, and egoism. Further, it is showing us a way to have consideration for others because anyone can be victimized, discriminated and prejudiced. I think tolerance and humbleness should be the norm in our lives. Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

I am sorry but thanks are
On October 17th, 2010 shaukat (not verified) says:

I am sorry but thanks are due to Allah and Hazar Imam only - the rest were just the conduits. Can you enlighten us as to what this new era is as we have not been privy to what Hazar Imam has directed?

* United Kingdom

Nagib and Alnaz
On October 15th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Mubarak to both of you for being in the presence of Our Beloved Hazar Imam. I was very touched to read the posting by Heritage Site. Thank you Umed. Nagib and Alnaz, I have always said that Our Beloved Hazar Imam loves all His Murids. He is "rehami and dayaru". Shukhar. May Allah shower His Blessings upon both of you. Ameen. Thank you

* Canada

Nagib and Alnaz
On October 15th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

I would like to add to my above post that Nagib, you had mentioned that if you were given an opportunity to have a 5 minute meeting with Our Beloved Hazar, you would take His instructions. It was your strong faith ("iman") that made it happen, He had a meeting with you. Thank you.

* Canada

* Canada

Copyright Lawsuit: Imam Appears for Discovery and Ends the Case
On October 15th, 2010 heritage says:

Heritage news was able to speak briefly with the defendants to ask our burning questions: Did the discovery happen? How long? What was accepted by whom? What was not mentioned? What were the main messages? Here are some answers:

- The discovery did happen, Hazar Imam arrived with Sachedina and Manji.

- The meeting lasted a half-hour of which barely 5 minutes were on the record. Most guidance was given off the record.

- Nagib asked no questions. He then waited for instructions.

- Imam said to put this matter to rest and consent to judgment and withdraw allegations of forgery.

- Imam said "we will work together" and we will meet again.

- Imam said that copies already bought by murids can be kept by them and do not have to be returned.

- Both Nagib Tajdin and Alnaz Jiwa asked for forgiveness more than once, and each time Imam said everything is forgotten (as if never happened.).

- Nagib said he was taking full responsibility for the publication and Alnaz had not participated in the publication, and Imam said he knows.

- The meeting ended with warm greetings and smiles. Imam left happy, saying "we will meet and work together". "Khouda Hafiz"

"discovery issue "
On October 15th, 2010 Nadia. A Jiwani (not verified) says:

Shukhar allah an amicable close has reached on this subject.....

* Canada

Re: above post of heritage of Oct. 15
On October 15th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Please, could you explain what the words "consent to judgment" mean? Which judgment?
Thank you in advance.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

A consent judgment is a
On October 16th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

A consent judgment is a final, binding judgment in a case in which both parties agree, by stipulation, to a particular outcome. A consent judgment is used in order to settle an issue before a court and to end litigation. A consent judgment is often rendered by a judge in the form of a consent decree.``

According to Supreme court : A final judgment of a court entered by agreement of the parties. A consent decree terminates litigation but binds only the parties, not persons who were not parties to the litigation.

* Canada

Re: above post of heritage of Oct. 16
On October 16th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you so much, Librarian-umed, for replying to my question. In this case, does this mean that Mr. Sachedina and the defendants have now to appear in front of a judge to say, the first that he is dropping the case of copy right, and the defendants that they are withdrawing the evidence about the forgery? Is that what this means ? Sorry if I ask too many questions, but I need to make sure I have understood it right...
Thank you in advance.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Thank you for clarifying
On October 16th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Thank you for clarifying this. Many may not appreciate the confidence & trust Hazar Imam has in the 2 murids to work together and follow guidance for 30 minutes to Dr Sachedina , M Manji, A Jiwa & N Tajdin which will be shared as directed by Hazar Iman amongst. the leadership and the jamat. I agree we should all be patient and look forward to hearing from the leadership and also from Alnaz and Nagib through this website. Meanwhile more , prayers, unity, and enjoy surfing and the resources on this website.

* United Kingdom

Re: above post of heritage of Oct. 15
On October 15th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Mubaraki to all of us!!! Shukhar Mowla !!!
Thank you for sharing the news !!!
Mille mercis ! Mowla tamaro bhalo karè, ameen !!!
Ya Aly madad!

* Canada

Only divine can give this ending
On October 15th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Could not have been a better outcome than this one.
"Tara bandane tu hi tare to nam rahe Ilahi"
"You are are the one who has to save your believers ,only then you can be called divine"
He saved everyone.
Shukhar Alhamdallah

* United States

@ HERITAGE SAYS::
On October 15th, 2010 NASH HUDDA CANADA (not verified) says:

SHUKRAN! SHUKRAN! SHUKRAN! MAY OUR LORD OUR BELOVED HAZAR IMAM FORGIVE EVERYONE FOR THEIR SINS AND ALL THEIR PAST MISTAKES AND MAY WE ALL LIVE IN PEACE AND HARMONY AS TRUE BROTHERS AND SISTERS WITH ALL THE ISMAILIS AROUND THE GLOBE. AMEEN....SUMMA AMEEN YA-RABBAL ALEMEEN."KHUSHIYA MANNAVO NACHO GAAVO YEH HAI HUMARE PYAARE MOWLA KI SHAAN."

* Canada

Re: above post of Nash Hudda of Oct. 15
On October 15th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ameen! Summa ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Sukhran lilah Alhamdullilah
On October 15th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Sukhran lilah Alhamdullilah and Mumbaraki to Alnaz and Nagib.

* United Kingdom

From what I am reading right
On October 15th, 2010 Iman (not verified) says:

From what I am reading right now about the meeting with HI I convey Mubaraki to Mr Naguib and Mr Jiwa. Please do not be afraid . He is our spiritual father. He is the 'Awal' and He is the 'Akhar'.Ask all the questions that are there in your heart and mind to him. This chance will never come back again.

* United Kingdom

Please, Let this END now.....
On October 15th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Those of you who now cry out "HUSH HUSH" etc., and still cast a shadow of doubt on "Mowla" and many do not even have the decency to address Him properly, should at least now that things have gone so far just wait and see what the outcome of this extremely unfortunate event will be.

You should, at least now, stop speculating and specially "STOP" declaring the WINNERS and LOSERS (in this case you directly or ndirectly refer to LIF and the Leaders etc.). There is no WINNER in THIS.

The biggest LOSER is the Ismaili Community at Large and the embarassment and the pain this must have caused and must still be causing to our beloved Mowla (I am sure you will all agree) can not be described in words.

I humbly request everybody, yet again, "Please contain yourselves and do not write any more by being carried away in "the heat of time events & circumstances" and please, stop the speculations and inuendos and slander of one or the other party".

What is the use of "HUSH HUSH" now when people have exposed this matter to the rest of the WORLD, making us the
LAUGHING STOCK.

I have urged for restraint and containment, and I do so again HUMBLY.

Let us all pray for all involved.

Let us pray that Mowla is merciful to those who have failed Him and the Community at large (and we donot know who those are - It is only Mowla who knows. Is it the Leaders? is it the Defendents? Only Mowla knows.).

These are extremely trying times for all of us. It is HORRIBLE To have been exposed in this way by the mistakes and greed for POWER of whoever they may be - again it is Mowla who knows who they are.

Finally, no one is a Winner here. It has been a lose-lose situation right from the begining. Let this END now.

I shall not be responding to any comments to this my "posting". It will only mess things up more.

I render my prayers for all of us and pray that Mowla will Bless us for "sudbuddi", patience, tolerance and forgiveness and help us be better persons in future. I hope you will all join me in these prayers.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

tajikistan
On October 15th, 2010 Sabzali (not verified) says:

I do share your concerns, but still think if it was not Mawla's will that this case went so far. There is some changes may occur as a result. Mawla knows best

* Tajikistan

Case Management Judge Enforces The Order for Discovery
On October 14th, 2010 heritage says:

From what we understand,

A case management conference was held today because Mr Gray was looking to avoid following the order for a 15-minute discovery, even though he had stated on Oct 12th to the Ottawa Citizen Newspaper, perhaps as a bluff, that his client would comply if the order for Discovery was upheld.

On Oct 14, the case management Judge enforced her order from Sept 29 which was upheld in appeal on October 13:

- Judge requires nothing from Mr Jiwa as he has waived his right to discovery if Mr Tajdin obtains a 15-minute discovery of the Plaintiff.

- Judge requires Mr Tajdin to give a copy of his documents to Mr Gray, preferable by email when possible, by 8h30 tomorrow morning.

- Judge allows the discovery time to be changed, however, she requires the Plaintiff to choose, by 9h30 tomorrow morning, a time for a 15 minute discovery that is to happen anytime between 10 am Friday and 2pm on Saturday at an undisclosed location.

- Judge did not concede to any technicalities mentioned by Mr Gray to avoid discovery, and believed the undertakings by the defendants to obey the Aga Khan' instructions.

At this point, if Mr Gray was bluffing, and the Aga Khan is not indeed his client in this action, then his bluff has been called. If He cannot produce the Aga Khan for discovery by 2pm on Saturday, then the stage is set for the whole statement of claim of the Plaintiff to be stricken.

Full Text of the Directions from the Court Docket:

Oral directions recieved from the Court: Mireille Tabib, Prothonotary dated 14-OCT-2010
directing that "The Defendant Tajdin has complied with the Order of 24-SEP-2010.

In view of the fact that the Defendant Jiwa has formally waived his own rights of discovery of the Plaintiff, and confirmed that waiver at the telephone conference, the Defendant Jiwa's failure to serve an affidavit of documents is not material to the operation of the Order of September 24. The Notice to Attend is therefore valid and operative.

The Defendant Tajdin is obliged to provide copies of the documents listed in Schedule 1 of his affidavit of documents, as requested by the Plaintiff, and is not entitled to withhold them until the discovery. The Defendant Tajdin shall coordinate with counsel for the Plaintiff to deliver these copies to the Plaintiff's counsel as efficiently and soon as possible, by email where possible and more expeditious, and otherwise in paper, aiming to deliver them this evening, but in any event, no later than 8:30 a.m. on 15-OCT-2010.

In any event, and to the extent the lateness of the delivery of documents prevents the Plaintiff from having made the preparation required by the Rules, the Defendant will not be allowed to avail himself of the remedies provided in the Rules for that failure.

At the telephone conference, the Plaintiff requested and the Defendant agreed to change the venue stated in the Notice to Attend to the location identified by counsel for the Plaintiff at the telephone conference. Also, the Plaintiff requested and the Defendant consented, that if it was found that a time for the examination, other than 10 am as stated in the Notice to Attend, would be more convenient to the Plaintiff, that time could be changed to any time between 11:30 am on 15-OCT-2010 to 2 p.m. on 16-OCT-2010, upon the Plaintiff so advising the Defendant by 9:30 a.m. on 15-OCT-2010.

Both the Defendant Jiwa and the Defendant Tajdin undertook, at the Plaintiff's request, to not disclose to any person other than the parties or the Court the venue and the time of the examination on discovery." placed on file on 14-OCT-2010 Confirmed in writing to the party(ies)

Above post of Heritage (Oct. 14)
On October 15th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Dear Heritage staff,
Accept my heartfelt thanks for keeping us informed by posting the above, and especially, for also including the rendering of the Court Docket in plain English so that people like me can understand properly what is being said :-) ! Thanks a million!
May Mowla Bapa's wish and will be done. Ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@kanize
On October 15th, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madat,
I am not a lawyer and my english is little broken, so I cannot understand properly all the juridic aspects during these last 2 days! But, it is sure that I doubled prayers, went to Ibadat this morning, and my prayers are not only for the defendants Nagib and Alnaz but also for Dr SS, LIF and all Ismailis around the world. Mowla keep us all in the right way of Siratal-Mustaquim!
At the beginning of this lawsuit, I declare everywhere and wrote many times that this lawsuit is not good, is very sad for our Community! I wam very unhappy but I know, Mowla is Mercifull and He knows everything!
Please, all people in this site, keep quiet, pray and stay humble! Yes, Kanize, I agree, "Mowla Bapa's wish and will be done". It is time for me to go to JK for my rendez vous with Our Mowla Bapa!
Ya Ali Madat and many thanks to Heritage Staff
mohez nato

* France

Above post of Nato Mohez (Oct. 15 addressed to Kanize)
On October 15th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Merci bien pour ce message; oui, je comprends très bien ce que vous ressentez et ce que vous avez exprimé et je crois deviner ce que vous n'avez pas pu exprimer dans ce mot.

Tout le monde retient son soufle en ce moment, on est tous, passez-moi l'expression, "suspendus", pour ainsi dire, aux "lèvres" du personnel de ce site qui affichera ou n'affichera pas le résultat de ce qui se passe en ce moment-même peut-être ou va se passer d'un moment à l'autre. L'attente semble parfois intenable, d'autant plus qu'on ne sait pas combien de la vérité nous sera présenté...

Tout le monde sur ce site est d'accord avec vous pour dire que ce procès est faux, néfaste, nuisible et tout à fait déplacé, vu qu'aucun Imam n'irait à l'encontre du bayyat qu'Il a accepté d'un mureed. Quant aux commentaires qu'on lit sur ce site, croyez-moi, ils sont bien plus décents (même les pires !) que ce qui peut se lire ailleurs: le peu que j'aie eu le courage de parcourir sur un autre site (et cela par accident !) (un site fréquenté par des non ismaéliens pardessus le marché !) m'a donné la nausée...Je crois qu'il y a du bon à ce que nos frères et soeurs ismaéliens puissent "se défouler" en exprimant leurs avis et leurs sentiments quelque part; beaucoup d'entre eux, vous l'aurez remarqué, ont été fort blessés de par le passé par les dirigeants, et c'est de là que vient leur amertume, leur sarcasme ou leur sagesse et compassion. Vous-même, je n'en doute pas, vous avez pu toucher beaucoup de gens par vos propos modérés et par vos exhortations au calme et à la retenue. Tout le monde, hélas, n'est pas capable de garder le silence et de se taire sans exploser à l'intérieur ou à l'extérieur...Et je crois qu'il n'est pas mauvais, bien au contraire, que les dirigeants eux-mêmes prennent le "pouls" de la communauté en parcourant ce qui se dit ici--et ailleurs. Mais je suppose, hélas, que ce serait trop demander et que c'est tout à fait utopique d'espérer qu'ils consultent ce site...Et qui d'entre nous aura le courage ou l'occasion ! de leur dire, avec politesse, de façon respectueuse et articulée, ce qu'on pense de tout ceci et des torts qu'il faudrait réparer et des erreurs à ne plus répéter...

Quant au langage compliqué (un vrai charabia pour moi, et d'autres, sans aucun doute !) des annonces venant de la cour, cette fois-ci on nous en a donné une version en anglais ordinaire, j'espère que vous en aurez saisi la teneur.

J'espère que vous pourrez suivre la retransmission en direct de l'allocution que Mowla Bapa va faire sous peu à Toronto.

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Will we ever know the real thing?
On October 15th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

What I can gather is that it will be hush hush .. from now on.
Nagib might be asked to remain quiet about everthing?
We may not know what happened at the meeting?
Did Nagib speak with HI on phone? or only the attorney?

* United States

It may be hush hush. It will
On October 15th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

It may be hush hush. It will be whatever Imam wants. Peace in the community is more important than other considerations. This is the time to bring the lawsuit to conclusion. We'll know soon.

* Canada

This is ismaili internal matter
On October 14th, 2010 sadrudin (not verified) says:

YAM.

From day one, I felted that LIF exceeded its authority and brought the matter in media. What the court is saying that this matter is Ismaili's internal matter and need to resolve internally.

Imam have advocated all the time to use arbitration that has established. Of course in the matter of arbitration procedure Imam is final authority and people can appeal to that level.

What LIF did, they went too far to compromise Imam's right which was established 1400 years ago by the Hazarat Ali.

So it is time that this blog be removed and let Imam speak to defendants directly and LIF.

Imam is available to HIS murid all the time not when LIF allows.

* United States

LIF CAN AND MUST DO SO ?
On October 15th, 2010 BLOGLAW (not verified) says:

I agree LIF Chairman and the executive committee allowed Dr SS to by pass the Chairman and their exec committee in sending the announcements. Dr SS I am certain will have said to them that the Imam has authorised the contents of the announcements. What did they do after the lawsuit started and the defense was received ?

We do not know what the LIF have done since the start of the case or are they waiting for guidance or the case to be decided by the court or concluded before they proactively seek clarification and guidance from the Imam. What efforts were made to try to settle this case.

Does for example LIF Chairman and the executive Board continue to rely totally on what Dr SS & MM are communicating to the Chairman and the exec committee, or are they seeking clarification where they need to including on this lawsuit.. Did they have a joint session of the top 60 odd leaders in London recently to discuss this lawsuit. In the current Leadership programmes are there any sessions to address the ground realities highlighted by this case. I hope and pray that Imam will meet the 2 murids and there will be change for the better.

If so, in the next 3 years WILL be more than the last 10 or what we WILL in the next 10 years , and both materially and spiritually.. I say this with humility and conviction.

* United Kingdom

Is the meeting agreed and fixed ?
On October 14th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Does the following mean that the meeting was agreed and is taking pace today or will tomorrow?

"...At the telephone conference, the Plaintiff requested and the Defendant agreed to change the venue stated in the Notice to Attend to the location identified by counsel for the Plaintiff at the telephone conference. Also, the Plaintiff requested and the Defendant consented, that if it was found that a time for the examination, other than 10 am as stated in the Notice to Attend, would be more convenient to the Plaintiff, that time could be changed to any time between 11:30 am on 15-OCT-2010 to 2 p.m. on 16-OCT-2010, upon the Plaintiff so advising the Defendant by 9:30 a.m. on 15-OCT-2010.
Both the Defendant Jiwa and the Defendant Tajdin undertook, at the Plaintiff’s request, to not disclose to any person other than the parties or the Court the venue and the time of the examination on discovery.” placed on file on 14-OCT-2010 Confirmed in writing to the party(ies)...)

* United Kingdom

Imam is Just
On October 14th, 2010 Nazmin (not verified) says:

The court ruling was in favour of the defendants despite the combined legal prowess, efforts, resources and reach of the very top, lawyers and leaders in question. To me that is saying that the Imam has spoken and also wishes the most just, the most expeditious and the most cost effective outcome.

Let us all hope that in the next few days this case will end, And a reversal of the widening gap will begin.

* United Kingdom

Discovery Right of the defendant upheld
On October 14th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

Defendant has every right, in case of a grave doubt about the real identity of the plaintiff to make an application in the court for discovery of the plaintiff – and in all cases, such requests are always granted by the court. This right to the defendant for ‘discovery’ is granted even in laws of third world countries like Pakistan and India.

Even qualified junior lawyer knows this truth. The question then is why, Mr. Gray, one of the senior and most capable lawyers of Canada, acted like this? He knew at heart, for sure, that despite his forceful arguments, court is bound to uphold the just order of the prothonotary, for this is the right of the defendants. What has he got for his client by employing different tactics of delay in all this six moths time? Only heavy cost to both the parties and nothing else; obviously he has earned his fat fee.

Defendants’ position since the beginning was that they have firm doubt about real identity of the plaintiff, and even in their affidavits they mentioned it.

Conclusion: Had this case been really filed by HI, and had Mr. SS had clean heart, Mr. Gray would have agreed to the discovery long time back – may be just after filing of the case.

Suggestion: As suggested earlier by ‘Another Ordinary Murid’, I request Nagib to make full spiritual preparation for the 15th meeting, get blessings of your elders too and also request them to pray for you. You don’t have much time left.

Let us all pray for truth to prevail.

Ameen.
On October 14th, 2010 Murid (not verified) says:

Ameen.

* United Kingdom

Defendants Win - Gray Loses - Order Upheld
On October 13th, 2010 heritage says:

From the Court Docket:

Order dated 13-OCT-2010 rendered by The Honourable Mr. Justice Boivin

Matter considered with personal appearance The Court's decision is with regard to Motion Doc. No. 89 Result: dismissed THIS COURT ORDERS that the plaintiff's motion be dismissed with costs. Costs in the form of a $300.00 lump sum are payable to the defendant (Mr. Tajdin) by the plaintiff. Filed on 13-OCT-2010 certified copies sent to parties via e-mail (certified copies to follow by mail) Transmittal Letters placed on file. entered in J. & O. Book, volume 1102 page(s) 250 - 252 Interlocutory Decision

Read the Full order By Justice Boivin Here:

A. Various Court Filings:

For today's order, choose the link titled: "20101013- Defendants WIN - AppealDismissed - Discovery Order Upheld by Justice Boivin-T-514-10 Order.pdf" as well as

For the order that was upheld, choose the llink titled: "20100924-CaseManagementConference-ORDER-ByProthonotaryTabib.pdf"

A Just Order - fair equitable and reasonable
On October 14th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

The 2 judges have agreed that the "Just", "most expeditious" and "least expensive" option is to have a 15 minute meeting under the process of discovery.

The 2 judges In concluding the order is "just" will have inevitably concluded that there is some merit, reason and uncertainty regarding the forgeries and whether Imam is the plaintiff.

Will Mr Gray file new motions or proceed to summary judgement without Imam having a meeting or attending discovery ?

OR

Will leaders and Mr Gray recommend and begin dialogue with the defendants for conciliation ?

OR

Will Imam attend discovery since Imam is in Canada and the case will end?

OR

Will Imam meet his 2 murids and end the case immediately.

All along all the defendants have been asking for is a 5 minute meeting with their Imam. I hope & pray there is now good reason for conciliation and a meeting Ameen. Imam knows best.

* United Kingdom

@bloglaw
On October 14th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

If Imam was the plaintiff he would have attended the discovery before the motion was filed.
He would have followed court's order.
But he is not the real plaintiff so he is not going to attend I am sure of that
Court will eventually decide that HH is not the plaintiff and this was a case of forgery

* United States

Re: above post of Alibhai Jiwani of Oct. 14 to Bloglaw
On October 14th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
In your last line, what does "eventually" stand for, dear Alibhai? When will they decide that?
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

order upheld
On October 13th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

CONGRATULATION.

Latest on Court docket
On October 13th, 2010 heritage says:

- 2010-10-12 Ottawa Letter from Defendant dated 12-OCT-2010 (Via e-mail)

Re: Costs of the motion heard Oct. 12, 2010: "...I would ask symbolic cost to be paid directly and personally by him (Mr Gray) to the Aga Khan Foundation Canada pursuant to Rule 404 Federal Court Rules,... I am not asking the cost of travel from Nairobi as it would have incurred anyways for me to come for the discovery. Cost:...Total $300.00" (Forwarded to Justice Boivin) received on 12-OCT-2010

- 2010-10-12 Ottawa Letter from Plaintiff dated 12-OCT-2010
Re: Costs of motion heard Oct. 12, 2010 "We are content not to seek costs. The motion was brought on by the Prothonotary's direction and not by a motion made by the Defendants." (Forwarded to Justice Boivin) via E-MAIL received on 12-OCT-2010

- 2010-10-12 Ottawa Ottawa 12-OCT-2010
BEFORE The Honourable Mr. Justice Boivin Language: E Before the Court: Motion Doc. No. 89 on behalf of Plaintiff to set aside the Order of Prothonotary Tabib dated September 24, 2010 as it relates to all matters except the setting down of the parties' motions for summary judgment. Result of Hearing: Matter reserved held in Court Senior Usher: Shawn Young 12-OCT-2010 Duration per day: 12-OCT-2010 from 09:30 to 11:00 Courtroom : Conference Room 1104, 11th Floor - Thomas D'Arcy McGee Bldg. - Ottawa Court Registrar: Christen Clement Total Duration: 1.5h Appearances: Mr. Brian W. Gray 416-216-4000 representing Plaintiff Mr. Najib Tajdin n/a representing himself Court Reporter: Marion Liang 613-564-2727 12-OCT-2010 ASAP Reporting Services 613-564-2727 12-OCT-2010 Transcript requested (on an expedited basis) Comments: An Order will issue on October 13, 2010. Parties are to provide brief written submissions as to their position on costs for this motion. Minutes of Hearing entered in Vol. 831 page(s) 143 - 149 Abstract of Hearing placed on file

Symbolic cost Rule 404
On October 13th, 2010 heritage says:

Federal Court Rule 404

Liability of solicitor for costs

(1) Where costs in a proceeding are incurred improperly or without reasonable cause or are wasted by undue delay or other misconduct or default, the Court may make an order against any solicitor whom it considers to be responsible, whether personally or through a servant or agent,

(a) directing the solicitor personally pay the costs of a party to the proceeding; or

(b) disallowing the costs between the solicitor and the solicitor's client.

(2) No order under subsection (1) shall be made against a solicitor unless the solicitor has been given an opportunity to be heard.

(3) The Court may order that notice of an order against a solicitor made under subsection (1) be given to the solicitor's client in a manner specified by the Court.

What next?
On October 13th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

"Fear not,what is not real never was and never will be .
What is real ,always was and cannot be destroyed.(" Bhagvat Geeta)

"Struggle you are in today is developing the strength you need tomorrow."

I think what Nagib and Alnaz are doing is really going to contribute to the strength of the jamat for future

I believe Gray is going to file for another motion as the first one got effectively dismissed by the judge

* United States

what next?
On October 14th, 2010 ScepticIsmaili (not verified) says:

The world will stop revolving? People live in this country and in this age but expect miracles!!!
What's going to happen is that when SS and MM and ER run out of games to play and realise that Canada is not like a two bit dictatorship where Judges are intimidated, than Mowla will have to rescue them by making an appearance to the Court which will be a pity because the brave Jiwa &Tajdin will be slaughtered on the altar of corporate solidarity .
That's Next.

* United States

Imam has spoken ?
On October 14th, 2010 Badru (not verified) says:

Tajdin and Jiwa speak for the silent majority, and there will be change for the better. Everyone you speak to privately agrees with Mawla that leaders in question do not share Imam's guidance with the Jamat. This means also that Leaders do not follow Imam's guidance by not sharing it. Which therefore means they are not following Imam's guidance.

Imam warned the leaders openly to share his guidance with the Jamat. They have obviously not. Maybe Imam has now spoken through Jiwa and Tajdin.

Jiwa and Tajdin have highlighted the tip of the iceberg and exposed the iceberg.They are doing the a special and an unprecedented seva for the Imam and the Jamat at great personal sacrifices and socio econo perils.

Bloglaw hit the nail on the head when he said that thr root cause is the widening gap between the guidance and wishes of the Imam and what they do on the ground.

Everyone is praying that there will now be change for the better.

* United Kingdom

@BADRU
On October 14th, 2010 NICK (not verified) says:

VERY WELL SAID; "Everyone is praying that there will now be change for the better." INSHA'ALLAH HOPEFULLY THINGS WILL CHANGE IN JAMAT AROUND THE GLOBE AND SO WILL BE THE ATTITUDE OF JAMATI LEADERS TOWARDS THE JAMAT.
MAY HAZAR IMAM SHOWERS HIS IMMENSE LOVE AND BLESSING ON ALL OF US , SO THAT WE ALL CAN LIVE IN PEACE AND HARMONY FROM NOW ON. AMEEN...

* Canada

I think we will find out soon..
On October 14th, 2010 chai (not verified) says:

"If the judge rules the examination for discovery should proceed, the Aga Khan will comply with the order, Gray said"

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/Lawsuit+over+book+require+Khan+appeara...

* Canada

He said that because he was
On October 14th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

He said that because he was expecting that the Judge will rule in his favor and people will think he is representing the Aga Khan else he would not make this kind of statement with so much energy. He wanted to show that he is the Aga Khan's lawyer. But.. surprise! the judgment is not in his favor. If the Aga Khan was his client there would not be a problem, Friday the lawsuit would be resolved in his client's liking.

Now he is trapped in his own bluff, he has to find some excuses to get out of his comments to Ottawa Citizen and try to explain why he is changing his mind and does not want anymore to proceed with discovery. The defendant have made their point, if Gray does not bring the Aga Khan after what he said to the newspaper, every intelligent person on earth will understand that there is a problem with the identity of the real plaintiff.

You are right. The thought
On October 14th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

You are right. The thought also crossed my mind. Mr Gray and the leaders in question must have been certain the judge will rule in their favour.

Also no other papers are carrying this story and the wrting and the angle suggests this is what they wanted before the judge gave the ruling. Maybe they also thought this article may help them in getting the ruling in their favour.

Imam knows best

* United Kingdom

Hazar Imam is not obliged to come for discovery.
On October 13th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

My thought is that Mr Gray will come up with another motion to thwart the meeting.
Hazar Imam is not obliged to come for discovery if he is not the real plaintiff.
We have to see if the case can go further from here if discovery is not possible?
Only Mawla knows his own game plan.
There must be a greater realm to this event than what I can speculate.
"Ali anant , Anant ,Ya ali Anant tu hi jane"
O Ali you are the eternal , only you know the end.

"Tara bandane tu hi tare to nam rahe Ilahi"
You have to save your believer only then you will be keeping your name of divine saviour"
This I feel somehow is the struggle of truth verses untruth rather than copyright.

* United States

Thanks
On October 13th, 2010 murid (not verified) says:

Thank you for sharing this information . we hope the transcript Alnaz expected to provide on 9th and the one of today and the order will be uploaded as soon as possible.

* United Kingdom

A lack or clash of understanding !
On October 11th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Editor of Vancouveritte made the following most surprising & very concerning statements (in Capitals).

ALIBHAI HAS TOLD YOU (IN HIS AFFIDAVIT) THAT HE SIMPLY PUT A BOOK ON A PLATE AND THERE WAS NO CONVERSATION”

I have read again paragraph 9 to 13 of Mr Alibhay’s affidavit, the Farman book was on top, Imam saw the book. Imam put his hand on and blessed the Book, Imam spent longer than usual on this mehmani, there was a conversation, and it was not only Mr Alibhay but also his wife and child too. In such a Mehmani murids request(araj – mun murad ) any specific, guidance/s or blessing/s

THE SOLE PURPOSE OF MEHMANI IS FOR A FOLLOWER TO GET A FACE-TO-FACE AUDIENCE WITH HH (IMAM)

The sole purpose of a mehmani is NOT to get a face to face audience with the Imam (far from it)

THE OFFERINGS (IN A MEHMANI) ARE SYMBOLIC. YOU GET BLESSED AND YOUR FAMILY GETS BLESSED.

This offering is not symbolic at all. The offering contains usually fruits, nuts, other items including in some cases jewelery with any specific request for guidance or blessing. This is in addition to any specific advice and guidance requested by murids or given by the Imam. After the mehmani is blessed, the contents including the blessings are revered and shared with family, friends and other murids.

NO CEO WOULD LOOK INTO YOUR EYES AND GIVE YOU APPROVAL WITHOUT FIRST STUDYING YOUR PROPOSAL.

Imam or a mehmani cannot begin to be compared to a CEO, even in terms of the time Imam takes or the way he considers, assesses, approves or decides on any secular or spiritual matters.

YOU CAN HARDLY CLAIM THAT A FLEETING, MOMENTARY AUDIENCE WHEN HE (IMAM) PUTS HIS HAND ON YOUR PLATE AND PATS YOURS SHOULDERS IS FULL AND COMPLETE ASSESSMENT OF A MAJOR PROJECT.

With respect your interpretation & understanding of a mehmani is totally incorrect and frankly an insult to our Tariquah. This mehmani and mehmani’s are not a fleeting momentary audience with the Imam who puts his hands on a plate, and gives a pat on the shoulder. This mehmani according to Mr Gray lasted one minute. It takes 10 seconds to bless by the Imam placing his hand on the book and on the shoulders of Muruds and saying Khanavadan. So what happened in the remaining 50 seconds ?
I am sorry to say that you are showing no respect for mehmani which is one of the most significant and foundational part of our Tariquah and is revered and observed daily in JK’s and also on the occasion of Darbar.

HH (IMAM) PAYS A LOT OF ATTENTION TO DETAIL.

I agree that Imam in all matters pays a lot of attention to detail. Sadly despite the best of the very best and detailed advice, guidance and directions from the Imam, there is a wide gap between the Imam’s attention to detail and what the leaders are implementing on the ground. This attention to detail is also neither reflected in the lawsuit nor the time line and events leading to up to the filing of the lawsuit.

MR GRAY DID NOT CROSS EXAMINE MR ALIBHAY BECAUSE HIS AFFIDAVIT FAVOURS THE PLAINTIFF?

I do not see how you can conclude the affidavit or Mr Alibhay favours the plaintiff in regard to the mehmani in paragraph 9 to 13. Mr Alibhay is a Mukhi and I have no reason to doubt what he has said in true. Mr Gray has so far refused to produce the video of that mehmani as requested by Nagib.

NOW, SO LET’S USE OUR BRAINS AND REMEMBER THAT HH (IMAM) OR HIS STAFF OR FAMILY ARE LIKELY READING THIS AS WELL.

I agree 100% with you on this. Let us all please do so.

Finally, If anyone reading these comments are still uncertain or confused regarding mehmani (or anything else) , I would invite them to feel free to call their Local ITREB and seek clarification and guidance from an ITREB scholar or an Al Waez/een. I hope ITREB IIS< and leaders who are reading these will try and ensure appropriate interventions and include them in the current leadership orientation programmes (LOP's and BUI, for all current and new appointees.

* United Kingdom

EDITOR OF VANCOUVERITTE
On October 12th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

EDITOR OF VANCOUVERITTE REPLIES TO BLOGLAW

OK, apart from your personal religious interpretations and your claim that I’m insulting your sensibilities which I have no problem doing, let’s take the facts that have legal ramifications and look at them closely.
The relevance of the brief audience as far as the legal issue is concerned is whether there was any conversation about a book that was placed on a plate with fruits. (And I hope you did not get permission to go jump over a fence and plant fruit trees in a neighbours garden, or any other concealed illegal activity simply because HH put his hand on the fruit and nuts in good faith).

Alibhai’s affidavit helps HH because it is completely consistent with HH’s affidavit. There was no conversation about a book, a book was not mentioned, there was no mention of a project to publish a copyrighted item. HH said he had sight of the book but it was taken away by the agents (Alibhai and wife) of the defendants. Again, this is consistent with what Alibhai has admitted – that he has the book at home as a remembrance. Therefore, HH had no access to the contents, no way to review it, no way to edit it and no way to determine its content. HH said he gave no such permission to print, publish or distribute. This too is consistent with the total lack of discussion of a book as evidenced by Alibhai’s affidavit.

Your suggestion that a video of the session and Mr. Gray’s “refusal” to submit it is evidence of concealment. You are insulting Mr. Gray, HH himself and the intelligence of those brighter than yourself.

Your suggestion is that if the video was played – the critical 50 seconds would reveal something contrary to what HH said. Your allegation has been denied, refuted, debunked and not worthy of a long debate.

BLOGLAW RESPONDS

1 My interpretation is not my personal belief but that of almost all Ismailies. This is also a part of the guidance and authority of the Imam covering ALL temporal and spiritual matters as confirmed by the Imam in our constitution. This is what we have accepted in our bayat, and we were taught to accept in our formative years by our parents, in JK’s in BUI and throughout our lives.

2 You are not insulting my personal sensibilities or beliefs. Thankfully (Sukhr) I do not have a conflict between my faith belief and intellect. You have views which are different. I do not agree with them in this case.

3 The legal relevance particularly but not limited to the mehmani & consent. Imam had sight of the book and blessed it. Imam allowed it to be taken away. Imam did not retain it or passed it to the top leadership with a direction. Leaders were there and saw this. The murids state Imam asked them to continue the good work which they understood was the book of farmans. Maybe they misunderstood. But then none of the leaders or the Imam contacted Nagib to stop publications of farman books for 20 years. Leaders and scholars were fully aware for 20 years and most Al Waez use these farman books. Nagib continued this work and in fact had meetings at IIS for other projects. Murids (Nagib, Alnaz, and Alibhay) have given their definition, interpretation and or understanding of that mehmani. Almost all - 99.9% of Ismailies would define a mehmani in similar terms. The top Leaders in question accept that in a mehmani murids do and can seek guidance and advice. The lawsuit states that there was no conversation and consent was not given. Therefore legally what is needed is an expert to define precisely mehmani (Maybe an IIS - ITREB top Scholar or an AL Waez).

This will help the court to decide if legally there was an agreement & consent. The court will of course take into account all the other and related evidence and facts including the claim that Imam is not the plaintiff. Legally a verbal agreement in whatever setting is an agreement or not.

4 Mr Alibhay and wife did not “take the book away” suggesting they decided to take it away. This was not the case. The mehmani was offered to the Imam. Imam blessed it and then effectively gave it to them with his blessings. When Mehmani is presented, one of three things happen 1- Imam disregards the mehmani and gives blessings to the Murid 2- The Imam keeps it and blesses the Murid, or 3-Imam blesses it and the Murids (as in this case) and returns the mehmani including the book on top.

5 I did not say not submitting the Video is concealment. This is a legal choice and strategy by Mr Gray and those whose intelligence is better than mine. Regarding what the 50 seconds will show is known to the Leaders, Mr Gray and the Imam. The rest of us can only speculate as we are. Speculation and uncertainly more often than not leads to a clash of misunderstanding, and confusion

Maybe this is another reason why this case should have been first considered by our national or international conciliation and arbitration Boards and or IIS or in accordance with our traditions

* United Kingdom

Debating with na Imani people
On October 12th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Why even bother debating with those people who have no faith in the Imam as one who is the bearer of Noor. The likes of Sachedina, Salim, and others believe and believe firmly that the Imam is just like you and me and Prince Charles or Obama.

These people say Imam thinks in French speaks in English, makes mistakes and needs correcting and also he seeks counsel of others. They can never comprehend nor understand the 50 seconds a MOMIN spends with his Lord.

Being in the constant presence of the Imam is no guarantee of being blessed. Eg. Abu Bakr was very close with the Prophet, have immense service personally to the Prophet and Islam but was first to discard the Haqiqati deen, remained a Muslim but lost being a Beloved Murid of the Noor of the Time.

You cannot tell a blind how wonderful the rising of the sun is or the setting of the sun, as his world (materially) require him to to feel things with his touch, or smell, or sound, none of which would help him.

Ignore the likes of them, their opinions are just as worthless as the likes of Yezid and his likes.

* Canada

Imam does not give up - @Concerned
On October 12th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Imam does not ignore or give up on us or our brothers and sisters. NOR should we and NOR would Imam wish us to ignore or give up on any of them. I am sorry I therefore do not agree with you or that that Dr SS or any of the leaders have no faith in MHI.I am sure we have all got at least one skeliton in our cupboards. I admit I have too and for which I seek forgiveness.

We have brothers and sisters in more than 25 countries around the world with rich diversity of cultures, practices and traditions. In different parts of the world, there are different challenges and lifestyle in dealing with the imbalances between Din and Dunya. Imam has given guidance on this in many of the farmans in the last 5 years.

Iman has also given guidance to the leaders in the last 10 years of the challenges and solutions of the knowledge society. Imam has given us Ismaili centers as a part of the solutions of having a home away from home. More Ismaili centers have been planned. This as we move into the creative soceity will act as a beehive of our communities interactions combining the temporal, social and spritual. Implimentation by the leadership has been a challenge in addressing the root causes.

We must all in fact say a big THANK YOU to the leaders in question and the 2 murids in highlighting the root causes of the widening gap between the solutions &guidance from the Imam, and of the ground realities.

* United Kingdom

Ignore farmans at your own peril
On October 12th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Your comments are just plain and simple YOUR opinions only, and are contradictory to the Imam's own
Farmans. What can I say. I like debates but would prefer that people give their opinions which are grounded on ginans and or on imam's farmans, I don't care for those who can write or say in glowing terms of their own.

It seems that either you do not read and study Ginans or farmans, or your capacity to understand them are seriously compromised.

Please if you must give opinions, don't become too smart and contradict the imam's farmans, or else you and SS and Yezid have much too much in common.

* Canada

Re: Bloglaw's above post of Oct. 11
On October 11th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Dear Bloglaw,
Thank you for sharing the above with us. I hope you did respond to that editor's comments placed on his site by correcting his errors, so that those who visit his site have the correct explanations. Or do they not post such corrections?
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Responsilbe Media Censorship V Moderation
On October 12th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

YAM. I did but there are a number of posts the Editor does not post like also for example my response on his lead article on Ms Parkes and her role. That is his choice of course. Most important is that he those he is closely involved with him know, and of course many if not all who visit that site also visit this site.

* United Kingdom

Re: Bloglaw's above post of Oct. 12
On October 13th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Mowla Aly madad, Bloglaw. Thank you for answering my question and for clarifying things for me. I now understand why you also post your reply to that Editor's comments on this site. Useful for his visitors...
Man, is his (Editor's) language ever rude!
Keep up you effort in sharing views and information, Bloglaw. It does demand perseverance...
Again, thank you.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

What happened at Mehmani?
On October 11th, 2010 Beleiver (not verified) says:

Have you noticed that all statements about the Mehmani from the plaintiff's pleadings are speculations on what the Imam may or may not have considered/thought/accepted/said? If they actually represented the Imam, they would present actual evidence about what happened, and they would not be afraid of submitting the video.

Here's a repeat from my post of June 11:

When Mehmani is presented with an extra gift offering, we often see one of three things happen:

- The Imam disregards the gift offering, in which case any acceptance is debatable

- The Imam picks up the gift offering, keeps it, and gives blessings in which case the gift is accepted

- The Imam Blesses the gift offering explicitely and leaves it on the tray in which case the gift is accepted and returned to the family who then treats it preciously and shares this blessed gift with as many friends, family and fellow ismailis as possible.

Imam is meticulous and would not ...
On October 11th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

You are right. and the Imam would not say that the book was secretly introduced in a one minute religious event. which he did not bless. Imam is meticulous and would not admit to the mehmani and then make a contradictory statement at the same time. The top leaders have obviously seen the video. There is also an affidavit from a Chandrat Mukhi Saheb Mr Alibhay. Yet Mr Gray and the leaders in question are stating that the Imam did not bless the book which was secretly introduced, Why not tell the truth or produce the video.?

* United Kingdom

Mehmani, the significance
On October 12th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

To understand Mehmani evidence one must also look at Imam's guidance, farmans and other expressions. For example Alnaz says that the old constitution gave right of publishing farmans to Association as it was known then. After it was disolved no such power was give to ITREB or ANY other body. There is no Farman or any other guidance at all (other than the three forged documents sent by SS) that prohibits the publication and distribution of farmans.

Alnaz pointed to Nairobi 1981 Farman and a few others and argues that by MHI saying to Jamats to take my blessings to your families and Jamats during Deedar, MHI's farmans being blessings, are also to be 'distributed,, orally, or otherwise.

MHI had made a Farman on not taking photos during Deedar but never said not to record. The Nairobi Farman quoted by Alnaz actually implies we having farmans inaudio version also.

Also the Farman of Dubai of Dec 13, 2003, quoted by Alnaz is so vital where MHI actually says that Farmans of IMAMS (plural) are also purposely hidden and should be reconstituted which is precisely what Nagob is doing.

If the issues are considered from ALL angles, the position of Alnaz and Nagib can be understood, and also explains why MHI is silent as he has spoken loudly and over many generations of what is acceptable and what is not.

For the likes of SS, Salim, Yezid, etc, to understand these issues they have to pray for faith and Haqiqati samaj without which it is like a them playing a drum whose skin is broken, playing a broken drum.

* Canada

@alnaz
On October 13th, 2010 Dilawar H Momin (not verified) says:

Alnaz is quoting Alnaz as third person! What a manipulation!! Manipulating whole community!!!

* United States

Significance of Mehmani - Sachedina and Bhaloo's views
On October 11th, 2010 heritage says:

Please see:

Significance of Mehmani

Dr Sachedina admits that a Murid is quite entitled to speak to his Imam during Mehmani. Imam does listen, interact with and guide Murids during Mehmanis. Although reluctant, even Mr Bhaloo came around to this conclusion.

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

Why both Defendants on separate course
On October 10th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

It is interesting to note the defendants have changed their course. I spoke to a friend of mine who works in the courts to seek some insight. She told me that Alnaz not joining Naguib in fighting Gray does not seem to be the time factor that if he is there then time for Nagib would be reduced. Alnaz can be present but questions could be asked by Naguib while Alnaz just observes.

So there must be another reason for that. She thinks that the reason is that Naguib is not a lawyer and wants to stop the proceeding even if it means that Gray can withdraw the case and not produce the Imam for questioning, specially because a motion for summary judgement is very very important and yet MHI's evidence was not filed to avoid him being questioned as SS and AB were questioned.

On the other hand Alnaz is a lawyer and probably understands that if the summary judgement motions were argued he might not only win the case but the judge could also determine if MHI was the plaintiff as the experts have been cross examined and a judge could say that the letters and affirmation were not signed by the Imam.

I also think that seems to be the reason for Alnaz wanting to argue the motions. Now that I think of this, i remember that earlier dates for motion were refused by Naguib and it seemed to me then too that he might be wanting to delay the motions and so he might just want the case to be withdrawn.

My friend also told me that it is quite normal for litigants not showing up for discoveries, and it does not automatically dismiss the case for not appearing for discoveries.

We might not know for certain what MHI's role was in the litigation, regrettably, it seems.

However, if MHI appears them would it not seem like he is the real plaintiff and that case is his and not brought by others as argued by the defendants, scary thought.

* Canada

Will Summary Judgement Happen?
On October 11th, 2010 Beleiver (not verified) says:

You say:
"My friend also told me that it is quite normal for litigants not showing up for discoveries, and it does not automatically dismiss the case for not appearing for discoveries."

In any case, since Imam is not the real Plaintiff, and the lawyers have no access to Him, the discovery will probably not happen even if the order is upheld.

And if there is no discovery, then the summary judgement motion will happen and will be strengthened by this!

At this point, it seems to me that Nagib responding alone to this appeal is the best of both worlds, and it also shows a very exemplary humility on the part of Alnaz: Why would 2 defendants ask for discoveries when only one can get the Imam's guidance to end the case?

No respect for Tariquah
On October 8th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I just read Mr Grays’s representations for the appeal to set aside the order to effectively stop Hazar Imam to meet his 2 murids for 15 minutes and give directions and guidance to them. This is the most expeditious and cost effective way to end this case.

So why appeal? The reason seems to me is just to satisfy ego’s of those involved at great expense, time and delay which are all avoidable

Mr Gray says confirmation by MHI is not needed at this stage because Mr Gray has confirmed who the plaintiff is and so has Dr Sachedina and this is also stated in the affirmation. Therefore he adds that Imam can appear at a later date if needed. Mr Gray accepts that if the Imam meets his 2 murids now the case will end immediately.

Mr Gray and the leaders in question say that the plaintiff needs an opportunity to see & consider documents from the defendants before he can be requested to attend. Why wait when in a 15 minute meeting the case can end and the question of settlement and merit are not relevant because copyright is not disputed.

The Mehmani in 1992 did take place and lasted for one minute. Mr Gray says that the 2 murids are relying on a “secretly” introduced book in 1992 which is “supposedly” blessed and approved by the Imam in a one minute religious event. Mr Gray will have seen that video or was told it was one minute by our leaders. One minute in a long time for the Imam during a mehmani which is usually 15 seconds. Mr Gray does not fully understand what a mehmani is and what it means to the Imam and for the murid. The wording & language used is unfortunate and disappointing..

However the leaders who allowed that clause in the representations are in fact insulting the Ismaili Tariquah. Those leaders are Dr Sachedina, Mr Manji and maybe others. Imam would never do so. They are showing a complete and utter disregard (and disrespect) for Mehamani – one of the most significant and foundational part of our Tariquah which is observed daily in JK’s and on the occasion of Darbar (as in this case).

* United Kingdom

@bloglaw
On October 9th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Since you feel so strongly about the leaders as I understand from what you have written above how in the world can you think of the "dialogue" with those very same leaders ? I am surprised you are discussing emphatically about this @ Vancouverite.
I think the case is already at a point of summary judgement.
Should the defendants get it resulting in the dismissal of the case on grounds of forgery or the plaintiff ?
There is no other question at this point. If the case goes further than all the issues will be discussed in the court until then the Q does not arise.
I do not see the slimmest possibility of a dialogue here. You got to be dreaming if you are thinking that way.
My best bet is that case will be dismissed in favor of defendants
Then all that guidance given to LIF leaders on the 4th sept will come out into play .
Until then everyone is sitting tight.
I may be wrong but I think dismissal is imminent.

* United States

Is Dr S removing or moving people ?
On October 10th, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

information not verified that Dr S is moving and removing selected individuals under him @HQ. If so what are the reasons and whether this has anything to do with the lawsuit.

* United Arab Emirates

I read Bloglaw's comments
On October 10th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

I read Bloglaw's comments and basis to start a dialogue. He is suggesting a dialogue with not just with Mr Gray and the 2 leaders in question, Dr S and Mr Manji. Credit to Bloglaw in trying. None of the leaders can say they were not aware. Most will be sitting tight and waiting until the outcome of court proceedings. Everyone is innocent and have the right to have their day in court.Those leaders and staff who know the facts should and I am sure will have given information internally.

I hope the latest documents filed and the transcript Alnaz said will be uploaded soon with a summary which are most helpful for everyone

* United Arab Emirates

@ Alibhai Jiwani
On October 9th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

I exactly feel the same way, no need to talk at this stage. Summary Judgement will soon follow.

No respect for Tariquah @ Bloglaw
On October 8th, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

We can all agree with Bloglaw on this. It seems that the corporate culture in Aiglemont has made some Ismaili leaders loose sight of the driving force behind our community, the essence of our faith, which is the unique interaction of the personage of the Imam with the historic faith of the followers.

The Ismaili Imam is unlike a regular Muslim imam in that He operates in both realms of existence. In the batuni or spiritual realm, He embodies the Noor “light” of Allah, which gives Him the power to guide the path of his Murids in their search for answers to the metaphysical matters, such as Heaven and the Day of Judgement etc. During the early conversions from Hinduism, this divine Light was seen to be in the Imam's incarnation of Vishnu. Mowla is all-knowing and his authority is absolute. He is most visible in early morning bandagi, or prayers of the momin.

But the Imam also has a role on a zaheri or physical level. Here he is accepted as the amir-ul-momin or the Commander of the Faithful. In this position, He derives secular authority and power in the temporal world from many factors. Sometimes it is the Shah of Iran who grants him land and titles or sometimes the Queen of England gives him recognition. Sometimes, it is the power of his philanthropy or the timeliness of his ideas on peace, tolerance etc that make world leaders invite and honour him. In this realm, the Imam needs and depends on the services of other people. If the Imam has a temporal state to run, such as the Fatimid Caliphate, then he has a whole civil service to assist him. If not, he has a small retinue as in Aiglemont today.

For most Khoja Ismailis, these two roles i.e batuni and zaheri are fused. The Hazar Imam of Aiglemont is also the old Vishnu of the Geeta. SSMS embodied that spirit in his dealings with the Jamaat and it seemed, until this latest fiasco, those who administered the jamaat’s physical needs such its material wellbeing etc, also understood this powerful factor.

This law-suit and the way it is conducted to date make an absolute mockery of this Ismaili doctrine. The faithful, which makes up most readers of this website, believe univocally that Mowla knows everything and is fully aware of all the details of the lawsuit, whether SS says he did not talk to Him before making his affidavit(as he claims) or not. Further, the Imam, who has the power over the universe, can stop this lawsuit in a scintilla (a portion of a moment) but obviously chooses not to. Even on a zaheri level, He just has to mention the case in a speech or farman (or anywhere) and Tajdin and Jiwa are morally and legally bound to accept their terrible fate-a life of complete poverty and ostracisms from their Ismaili family. But Mowla chooses not do that. He has not lifted a finger to make the lawsuit disappear. That is a powerful signal to the faithful.

To the lawyer, it may just be a matter of the pride or dignity of the VIP; to others, it may be fear of humiliation of being brought “down” by two unimportant people. But to true Ismailis, it is a matter of a deeper truth. The Imam has a plan. No one knows what it is but just as day follows night, the lawsuit is leading to a definite objective, one that has vast significance for the faith of the Ismailis.

Perhaps the current crop of Ismaili leaders may have to be purged in order for the real Ismailis to emerge. As the Pirs have said, Mowla needs only a few Momims for this world to exist

* Canada

Re: above post of Abdul of Oct. 8
On October 10th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Excellent, well articulated summary of the most important part of the faith!
Re: your last paragraph : I just hope that IF ever the real Ismailis do emerge to be leaders, that they will not allow their position of power to corrupt them...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Need for leaders to act. Will they?
On October 9th, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

Leaders who are reading these feedbacks and opinions will hopefully do what they should to reduces the gap as you and bloglaw have said to reduce the gap between guidance and the directives of the Imam and what leaders do on the ground. Both you and bloglaw speak for a majority of Ismailiis who are all concerned and do say the same privately. Visions & guidance, need tasks which need leaders who lead leaders down the line to complete them for the vision and directives to become a reality. Without intergrity and trust this will fail and instead of leading will lead to misleading. We are today in the knowledge society where the traditional leadership model of "gating off " will no longer work as Imam has reminded us many times in the last decade or two. The 64 million dollar question is will all leaders take this lead.

* United Arab Emirates

Are the leaders allowed to read on this website?
On October 9th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Most of the people I talk to in jk say they do not go on this website because they say it is "Nafarmani"
They believe what is told to them by LIF and LIF in turn what is told to them by Dr SS.
(99.9 percent of jamat know nothing about the case except that there is a lawsuit going on)
It is a pity when HI himself is talking so much about importance of acquiring knowledge and concept of" knowledge society" that community still chose to remain ignorant on issues so vital for the faith and our doctrines.

* United States

Leaders reading!!
On October 10th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

A question was posed whether leaders are allowed to read the posts here.

I think that us not an appropriate question.

I would say (knowing and interacting with leaders for now 60 years (not much has changed) that most if not all of leaders don't really care about what jamats think all they are concerned about is how and which higher A.. to kiss to be in their good books and be appointed again and again.

Knowing jamats opinions is contrary to the objective of a leader - please the likes of SS.

I see this in action no matter who the leader is, how big a tasbi he holds, mainly holds a bigger one so as to portray a god fearing image.

In many ways our leaders could outbeat the politicians in these matters.

My own opinion, which I would love if this site person who posts surveys posted a question to determine the viewers opinions on this point.

I think their answers could be predicted. I doubt that appointments are based on merit.

What do you think?

* Canada

@ Abdul
On October 8th, 2010 Alibhai jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Where were you man all this time?Hiding?
Finally I found someone who is thinking on the same line as I do.
I love you my brother for that.
Keep writing.
We need someone intelligent and articulate like you to come forward and explain the Ismaili doctrines
It is a big service to Mawla I think.
I love your comments .

* United States

Motion by Mr. Gray
On October 8th, 2010 An ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

My friend asks one three questions:
1. Why Nagib opposed Mr. Gray’s motion of setting aside the prothonotary’s order of the meeting of maximum 15 minutes between the parties on October 15th.
2. Why Al Naz, on the other hand, does not objected to this motion of Mr. Gray and,
3. What Mr. Gray’s urgency was to hear his motion on 12th October.

My response:
Al naz was neither involved in Mehmani (directly or indirectly), nor in printing and distribution of earlier Farman books or the book pertaining to the case. His stand was from the beginning that he was unnecessarily involved in the case, which gets also confirmed from equivocal statements of Dress during his cross examination.
He den not need to raise a single question to HI. Also, if Al Naz agreed for such a meeting, he would consume some time unnecessarily, which would result in less available time for Nagib out of total restricted time to 15 minutes.
In a teleconference, it was Nagib who wanted and insisted for such a meeting with HI on 15th October as a part of discovery to end the suit. Prothonotary’s was convinced that the meeting will end the suit immediately and with least cost to both the parties, and hence passed such an order.
HI will be in Toronto between 13 to 15th October and since the prothonotary’s order is there, it must be rescinded by the judge by 12th October if the order for the meeting with HI of defendants is to be thwarted, which was the main aim of Mr. Gray, and for this reason only, he cited urgency in his motion.
Though move by Nagib and Al Naz was a good move, motion of Mr. Gray on legal ground will most likely be granted by the judge on 12th only. It means the case will go on even in next year.

Legal grounds
On October 10th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Don't bet on Gray winning the appeal. A prothonotary's order made on procedural issues is not reversed easily by a appeal judge.

I doubt that Gray will succeed, but the discovery date could bs changed as courts do take into account the convenience of a litigant and not impose a date that might not be suitable to a litigant except that Gray has not given evidence of MHI's busy schedule.

Also Gray could appeal that order and also refuse to produce MHI despite the order, which will be a PR nightmare for his team.

It could mean that the case could be withdrawn by Gray and SS and MM, which will not solve the issues, and we will never know if MHI was behind the litigation or not.

* Canada

Gray can not win on legal
On October 8th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Gray can not win on legal ground. There are enough rules and precedents that the Judge can not really give him reason. But what Gray will do is another appeal and another motion up to the time someone tells him that he has to pay from his pocket to make multiple frivolous motions and appeals.

The Sachedina Factor
On October 7th, 2010 Abdul (not verified) says:

Whilst most who have met Shafik Sachedina would agree that loyalty, not intelligence must have been his chief asset to Mowla, yet still, when creating his position, the Imam must have been expecting competent assistance in the running the vast network of community services. Along with such extra-constitutional powers also comes the duty to exercise due caution and when called upon, to provide Him with proper information and sober counsel. Which means that in each situation, to fearlessly state available choices as well as potential pitfalls. So accepting for the moment, the dubious claim that Mowla is really the Plaintiff here, one can say that Shafik Sachedina, Mowla's trusted advisor, has failed Him miserably.

To begin with, it was bad crisis management not to afford these loyal Murids a few minutes with Mowla, if it could dispel their fears about the source of the order to cease publication (after all, it is a common complaint amongst Ismailis that leaders use Mowla’s name to further their own agendas). In his x-examination, Tajdin effectively demolished the argument against undue access to the Imam. This was an unsual circumstance and his book, a labour of love of the Momim over many years, deserved the briefest attention of the Murshid. It is incredible that instead, attempts were made to intimidate and threaten his family ruination. The Dr. knew Tajdin as a devout man of principle, who could not be bullied and who needed special handling. (President Bush’s experiences have taught the world that threats don’t work against firm religious beliefs)

At this point, all well informed Ismaili leaders and individuals agree in private that it was bad counsel for the Agakhan lawsuit to be filed against His own followers in a public court. Every step in the process exposes the entire Ismaili worldwide jamaat to physical danger, opens the Imamate and its institutions to ridicule from the uninformed and may only provide symbolic victory as it would not cover Tajdin's past works and any future breach would have to be pursued in the courts everytime anyway (there are millions of Ismailis globally and some would likely ignore the prohibition against sharing farmans just as they ignore some other farmans).

So balancing the evil of the distribution of the Imam's farmans versus the benefits/dangers outlined above why did Shafik, the chief “coordinator” of the Ismaili world, not exercise caution before rushing into a minefield? As one comentator has asked, why did he not ask Mowla to forgive these Murid’s “craziness” and beg for a short audience for him? After all, Mowla encourages meritocracy, which requires one to do what has to be done, which has to include giving one’s best opinion to the Imam. Then it is Mowla’s prerogative, based on His vision, to follow that counsel or not but the transcripts show that no effective attempt was made to dispel Mr Tajdin’s concerns. Instead, his staunch faith in Mowla’s divine wisdom became the subject of ridicule at every level at Aiglemont.

Secondly, it was bad counsel to hire this lawyer, who it transpires, has not bothered to acquaint himself with the basic tenets of the religious community he represents nor the theological dispute underlying the simple claim for copyright. Mr. Tajdin rightly told him that his (Tajdin’s) conduct to date would look irrational if it is not understood from the position of Ismaili Tarika. It this faith in his Imam that makes Tajdin labour for years to produce a Book of Farmans for his fellow Ismailis (selflessly, without identifying himself), instead of a book of songs of the Beatles. It is his faith that makes him think that it cannot be his beloved Mowla that would refuse to see him or to sue him. It is the same faith that makes him face up to the deprivations of the Ismaili “Taleban” who harass and threaten his family every day. This lawyer was clueless and tried to portray Tajdin as a “lunatic” by trying to show that his views were factually unsupportable (as if faith in the Imam has anything to with facts!!). It may appear so to a non-Ismaili and indeed, ultimately, even to a Federal Court Judge but this faith is a product of 500 years of the Sat Panth. It was a crying shame that Shafik Sachedina, the principle defender of the Ismaili faith, should have sat there and allowed the lawyer to mock this Ismaili Momin. (and what was that dumb stunt about the lawyer’s photo with the Imam at the Foundation ceremony? It was comical when Tajdin reminded him about the thousand photos the Imam takes with people he does not speak with!!). In fact, the eagerness with which the lawyer was trying to show that his connection with the Imam perhaps underscores the argument earlier made in this forum that, initially he may have taken instructions from SS rather than the Imam directly, which could be a breach of his ethics.

Be as it may, it is clear that the good Dr.(where on earth did he get that doctorate….Turkmenistan?) has brought disrepute to the Imam and is singulalrly unsuitable for the role he occupies in a community that is bursting with talent and the real question on many minds is…when will Mowla boot the ** out?

* Seychelles

@Abdul
On October 8th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Bravo!
Finally the intelligent ones are coming out with their thoughts.
I loved your comment

* United States

@ Abdul
On October 8th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Simply superb, excellent analysis indeed.

Sachedina Factor
On October 8th, 2010 parvez (not verified) says:

Shafik Sachedina is a dentist and thus entitled to call himself a Dr. He qualified at what was then the leading dental school in UK in the early 70s. What is not clear to me is why you believe that Hazar Imam could not have told (nay Ordered) Sachedina to arrange a meeting if he so wished. Maybe Sachedina is not obeying orders and Mowla is too busy to realise he has not had his meeting?

* United Kingdom

Maybe Mowla does not want to
On October 8th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Maybe Mowla does not want to intervene because there is criminal activities involved in this case and he wants the legal system to clean up the mess. Why judge the reason he has to let this happen... unless you have the capacity to understand what is really happening...

Sachedina may or may not have a dentist degree but it does not give him the right to pull everyone's teeths.

Maybe Mowla does not want to
On October 8th, 2010 simon (not verified) says:

just wait for the lighting bolt to strike on you two(naguib/Alnaz)

coming shortly

* Canada

@librarian Umed
On October 8th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I have the same feeling.
HI is not going to raise a finger in this matter in the physical realm
Eventually Federal court will decide this is a Fake case.
There is no need for Mawla to get involved and expose himself to press Qs etc.
He is giving the necessary strength to his momins to fight the case.
Look how resilient both are despite so much harassment!

* United States

What if Nagib who is not a
On October 8th, 2010 Praying in India (not verified) says:

What if Nagib who is not a lawyer looses the appeal by Gray?

Does it mean it goes for another round of summary judgments that will be appealed also by either of them?

Does the appeal prove that the Aga Khan is the plaintiff?

Why then fight??
On October 8th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

If you say that Mawla has a reason to keep silent, why then is Nagib fighting like hell to discover our beloved Imam, rather then let the courts 'clean' the mess as you said? Why does then Nagib want to force Mawla to speak if you say (Nagib's staunchest supporter) he has a reason to keep quiet?

* Canada

The Court will clean the
On October 8th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The Court will clean the mess I am sure, I can see what Nagib may have in his head. There can be a multitude of reasons, the first being that he knows Gray does not represent the Imam and has no possibility of bringing the Imam to the discoveries, so by pushing for discoveries and letting Gray appeal multiple times, he has already proved that Gray is not in touch with his purported client.

During the motion for dismissal, this will count because this will be one of the many proves that an usurper is the real client. There have already been so many rumours about who are the usurpers that it is surprising that the Imam has not tried to protect them if he was the litigant by even accepting a small discovery that he would know is the right of any accused in the Canadian system.

Would the Imam launch the lawsuit without knowing the implication that if there are 50 John Doe and they all come out, they all will have the right to sit 6 hours each with the Imam provided their questions are relevant to the case? Would he do that? And hasn't the case management judge been bright in trying to limit the time the Imam can be asked to meet the accused people. And has Gray not been less bright in refusing the 5 minutes because I can see that when he looses his motion, the defendants will not be restricted on the time issue for discovery. So is that appeal not a prove in itself that the interest of the Imam is not protected by Gray?

Tickets for MHI's speech in Toronto
On October 7th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

At Don Mills JK, a man told me that he went to the venue just after the program was made public, and they told him that no tickets were slated to be sold to the public as all tickets were given (or sold) to Ms. Clarkson, former GG, and she would distribute (or sell) the tickets.

* Canada

Tickets will be distributed
On October 8th, 2010 Murid (not verified) says:

Tickets will be distributed to invitees who will be dignitaries, selected leaders guests,and some murids. The LaFontaine-Baldwin Lecture is on issues concerning the public good in Canada. Presented by the Institute for Canadian Citizenship, a national organization founded and co-chaired by the Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson and John Ralston Saul.
I dont think Rt Hon Ms A Clarkson will be selling tickets.

* United Arab Emirates

Editing
On October 7th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Editing is wrong, if a post is not acceptable don't post but changing the whole message ito suit your ehim or opinion is plainly wrong and unethical.

My post's message is completely distorted.

* Canada

The culture
On October 7th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

EDITOR VANCOUVERITTE: It would not be surprising if the saga ends then. See, even in a general speech if he (IMAM) mentions that he has sued these two people for copyright violation then it would be over. That removes any IFs and buts leaving them to then openly defy which they may not do hopefully. There would be no need for a meeting at all in that case.
BLOGLAW: Imam has not said so in any speech for 6 months. Imam also did not say at the LIF & ITREB joint meetings in London recently. Imam invited “any” questions from the leadership present. There were none. There has been no new LIF announcement. Why do you think that is? No one is denying Imam is aware. Everyone is waiting for Imam to intervene and give guidance and for LIF to make another announcement
Is this may be because leaders believe or are told by top leaders not to ask Imam any questions and speak only when spoken. Is this the same when Imam visits the Ismaili centers and the staff are also similarly instructed & reminded to hide in their offices, not to approach Imam or obstruct, because Imam has a very busy schedule etc. Hence the culture and root causes too ?
How wonderful it would be for the Imam and the staff for them to stand when their Imam comes in and walks by. Not a single minute more of the Imam will be taken up but just imagine how the murids there would feel and how members of their families will feel.Do leaders not realise what they say at present?
In India and our eastern cultures even today when the boss enters all stand up in respect and traditionally speak only when they are spoken too.

* United Kingdom

I guarantee
On October 7th, 2010 Alibhai jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I guarantee HI will not speak a word about the case in the lecture.
My gut feeling is the case will continue for a while.
There are going to be major revelations I think.
It is all happening for a greater reason than just 2 individuals who printed farmans.

* United States

@Someone
On October 6th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

Someone wrote (not in Heritage site) in response to the comments made by ‘Another ordinary Murid’ at Heritage site that:
“Hazar imam has the right and can supersede words of earlier Imams”

My comments:
Even a child having some knowledge about our Tariqa knows this truth. Dear Someone, your further write up is based on belief that the plaintiff is HI, while hardly anyone at Heritage site believes so. And they have plenty of reasons to support that.
‘Another ordinary Muirid’ does not and can not and will never use even an iota of derogatory work for HI. If you read him correctly until his last sentence, his firm belief is that HI is not behind the case and that is why He personally does not appear before the court.
Dear brother, you have not replied to his last comment as to what the usurp plaintiff has achieve in last six months with delay tactics.
You also wrote that both Imam Aga HasanAli shah and Imam MSMS were both defendants and appeared in the court on their discretion.
Dear, I want to add to your knowledge that in civil case defendant has no choice. Either he himself or his lawyer or both are required to attend. (T his is a must). Also, besides the attendance of his lawyer, it is to the defendant’s interest that he attends the case. In matter of special importance court even can summon the defendant for certain clarification, and if defendant does not attend then the court can rule entirely in favor of plaintiff, and, in some cases, with cost to defendant.
On the other hand, plaintiff has the discretion to attend the court or not, and he can be represented by his lawyer. But if court gets convinced by the defendant that there is foul play and that the real identity of plaintiff is in doubt, in that case, the court can rule that plaintiff be present in the court or ask plaintiff’s lawyer to provide sufficient proof to the fullest satisfaction of the court as to the real identity of the plaintiff. Failure to do so by plaintiff/ plaintiff’s lawyer, gives the right to the judge to dismiss the case in favor of defendant. This is likely to happen in this case as well.

Evidence!!!
On October 6th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

I was never involved in compiling, recording, transcribing, printing etc. of the almost ten or so books published by Nagib and his associates. Regrettably when I prepared the motion records for bringing the motions for summary
judgement, one piece of evidence I was NOT aware of and i discovered it recently. Had I been aware of the evidence I would have filed it in the court as part of our file and is even more stronger than all the evidence we filed, including the evidence of mehmani guidance. Unfortunately the rules of court will not allow me to file it unless Mr. Gray consents and I dont expect him to.

I might post it online (not decided yet if it is a good idea) at some point and will be very strong evidence to show imam's direct knowledge of the recordings of his farmans by Nagib and his associates. However, this evidence gives me confidence of our stand taken by us.

I am also very grateful to all of my brothers and sisters who have been supporting us, and for their prayers.

* Canada

Sharing and asking is the only way
On October 6th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Leaders and jamat should no longer be afraid or reluctant to ask or share with other leaders and especially the jamat. If they dont then whatever the outcome of this case not much will change and there will be more of the same. I hope you will decide to share the evidence

* United Arab Emirates

Evidence
On October 6th, 2010 Abdul (not verified) says:

Alnaz:

Your efforts to expose the leadership is very commendable. You are our David fighting the Goliath, that the Khoja institutions have become.

Reading the transcripts of Sachedina and Bhaloo, it is a scary thought that the fate of millions of Ismailis are in the hands of these **! Their lack of knowledge of the fundamentals of the Ismaili history or faith is appalling.

Please keep up the good fight because Mowla wants you to.

* Seychelles

Very well said....and have a
On October 7th, 2010 Nick ( Canada) (not verified) says:

Very well said....and have a faith in Mowla ....Insha'allah Truth will be revealed to all the Ismailis. Ameen.

* Canada

Tashbi
On October 7th, 2010 Babu (not verified) says:

I agree with you when you said:Their lack of knowledge of the fundamentals of the Ismaili history or faith is appalling.

No wonder Abu Ali missionary was so furious when "Pir Shah" tashbi was removed.

* Canada

Re: above post of Abdul on Oct. 6
On October 7th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
What a wonderful way of expressing what many of us feel towards the defendants! Thank you for doing that, brother Abdul! I, for one, have never expressed these feelings to them, even though they were in my heart! So, thank you!
To the defendants: please, do hang in there!! Many of us are praying!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Alnaz Jiva
On October 5th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Few days ago "concerned" had posted this comment.
If it is not much trouble if you could give a little more clear reference for the firman so I can refer
I found it interesting and unheard of.
I have gujarati" Kalame Imame mubin" both parts.

Responses
On September 26th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:
As you, I was keeping quiet thinking that let them fight the case and we will get the answers. Now I feel more and more so that keeping quiet is wrong when Mawla urged us to seek accountability, so he expects us to do his fight. For him and for the jamat.

One way is by posting comments, I am also asking mukhis and other leaders for answers and am realizing that so many of our leaders including mukhis have similar thoughts of our imam as Dr. has. Truly shocking and depressing.

I heard the defendant Alnaz talking to some people at don mills JK to expect that as many as 2/3 of our jamats will be discarded by our imam just as previous imams have dumped the jamats. It is food for thought. He quoted a Farman of MSMS to support his argument (I missed the Farman as i was at jk for Samar and missed a part of the talk. I only knew afterwards that he was the defendant himself. I was taken aback, but got thinking of his words. I am seeking the Farman he quoted, and said it was a written Farman.

Can anyone post that Farman for all of us to read and interpret it ourselves?

* United States

Farman MSMS
On October 6th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

I will seek that Farman I was speaking about and can give citation of it, page no. Farman no. and which book. The Farman though is in Gujarati and I don't think can be posted here. Is there somewhere I can fax so this site can maybe either scan it in the comments section or a link to it.

Here is the gist of the Farman of MSMS:
Oh jamat don't think that because I have given a promise to Pir Hasan Kabirdeen that I will salve (taris) you, that I will salve you. I will put life (jeev) into these lights (pointing to bulbs, [ i think chandelier bulbs ], make them Ismailis and salve them and fulfil my promise, but I will let you go (tamne jawa daish).

Since you have the two books please check in the index either Pir HKD' name and try to look for it.

I read some comments of burning the Farman books, my understanding is that only two or three books were returned to distributors across the world after the announcements were made after the litigation commenced. I think only one burnt a book (and I have not been able to confirm that because anyone wanting to rid it could have given to mukhis or council).

None of the people I sold to have returned the book, on the contrary i was told by many no matter what we are not returning the book.

Also note that we have been told by the named plaintiff's lawyer that distributed books can remain and not be returned if we agree to stop distributing the books, return unsold ones and not to print more, and agree that we breached the Copyright Act. We refused to accept the offer, but that offer made confirms further that MHI is NOT the real plaintiff. Why? Because if MHI is if the opinion that these books are a copyright infringement, why allow the sold copies to remain with the jamats who have bought them. Seems contradictory! Either the books are infringement or nor, allowing copies to remain is contradictory to them being 'so wrong' in the first place.

My cross exam of their expert is truly revealing and reaffirms or seems to establish our beliefs that MHI is not the real plaintiff. In some ways their Expert's evidence is important seeing that he is not an Ismaili and may not have even met or influenced by SS or AB or MM.

Alnaz Jiwa

* Canada

Re: above post of Alnaz of Oct. 6
On October 7th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thanks a million for the information you have given above, Alnaz. So useful!!!
And Concerned is going to be happy, no doubt, to be able to trace back the farman which you mentioned and which he was looking for !
We are looking forward to the transcripts of the cross examination of their expert.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Thank you. In addition to
On October 7th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

Thank you. In addition to the offer allowing Ismailies to keep this book (and earlier editions).

The reason advanced for not allowing this book to be distributed is integrity of Farmans. The authenticity of Farmans have not been questioned. So all Farmans in the book are authentic. Most (if not all) who have the books will treasure them and derive immense pleasure and benefit from Farmans.

* United Arab Emirates

Hot news! Re: the other expert .....
On October 5th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

I cross examined their expert today, and as expected have uncovered more serious issues once again. I will do great disservice if I summarize his evidence. The transcript will be ready by the 9th and i trust that this site
will do great service in digesting the evidence and post a report as well as the transcripts as they have superbly done in the past.

You will have to wait for more shocking evidence which will help understand why they are appealing.

* Canada

Re: above post of Alnaz of Oct. 5
On October 6th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thanks a million for sharing this news with us.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Thank you for sharing
On October 5th, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

Thank you for sharing

* United Arab Emirates

I think that those who have the books should wait....
On October 4th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear All,

Ya Ali Madad.

I think that those who have the Friman Books should wait for the outcome
of this Law-suit and wait for the firman of Mowla as to what to do with
the books.

It does no service to any cause by burning them or acting in haste.

Please note that I am neither a Chamcha of Dr. S nor of Mr. Alnaz
or Mr. Nagib.

What I have said is my personal take on this and see things from my own
perspective. I would not burn the Firman Books if I had them. I would
wait for Mowla's firman on them after the case is resolved, one way
or the other. I am following my own conscience here.

People may do what they like, but acting impulsively can hardly
be prudent, when one does not know what Mowla wishes for
those who already have bought the books to do.

I wish you all best of luck, peace and happiness at all tmes.

May Mowla Bless You All. Amen.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Book Burning & Jahils
On October 7th, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

It is truly shameful for the Imam to have to read about book-burnings by Ismailis. Only the Taliban, Nazis and the most ignorant "jahils" resort to suppressing knowledge this way.

Imam wants all Muslims to be pluralistic and in Canada, even children are taught to respect the opinions of those with whom they disagree.

Mr. Tajdin was showing his love for the Imam by doing something that was perfectly OK at the time.(Generations of Ismailis all over the world have copied,translated and distributed farmans, ginans,photos and tapes,CD's, we all know that!).

Imagine the Imam's anger when He learns that the Tajdin and Jiwa families have been physically threatened. (or His shame, if He is asked about this by the press when He comes to make a speech in Canada). One shudders to think of the reactions of these "jahils" if someone were to actually publicly disagree with the "Apex" leaders.That person would be immediately branded "anti-mowla". What next, mob attacks in JK?

To use Imam SMS's analogy, you take bring some Ismailis to Canada, the country of tolerance (pluralism), but you cannot force them abandon their ignorance.

* Seychelles

If I was unsure or thought
On October 5th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

If I was unsure or thought that the Imam is the plaintiff, then in the lawsuit it is stated clearly that Farmans are available in all JK's including in remote locations and that the defendants should return the books to IIS. I would have bought the book because I and my family wanted to read farmans which we could not get from JK's or ITREB'S. So I would check with my local JK and ITREB if I Farmans are available to read in JK or ITREB offices. If so I would hand the book to IIS. IF farmans are not available then I would inform my local leaders about what has been said in the lawsuit by the plaintiff/Imam. I would then also wait until the end of the lawsuit. I would in any event not burn any farmans or any book of Farmans. May mawla guide us all.Ameen

* United Arab Emirates

Burning Farmanbook is like burning Quran!
On October 5th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

I finally saw the Golden book Yesterday , a friend has it.
"Mawla's words" How can you ever even think of shredding or burning?
Any one doing that is no less fanatic than those who wanted to burn Quran.

* United States

Abuse of Trust by Leadership happens in many communities......
On October 4th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear All,

Ya Ali Madad again,

Of late, I have read many extremely interesting things in what many of you
have written. There is a substantial digression that has taken place and a
transition to the ABUSE OF POWER and the abuse of TRUST VESTED
in the LEADERSHIP is becoming the FOCAL POINT, and that rightly
so. ALAS sadly in public and open to and for the rest of the
World to read.

If I had happened to meet you (all of you who are contributing with
your thoughts, theories and other stories that you have to tell)
in a room where only us would have been present, I am dead
sure that (if this subject was taken up) we would all be saying
the same things as we have written here, and we would be
having a very civilised (but a heated) discussion on the same
topic as above. Many may wonder and ask the question, "WHY?"

I, earlier, gave my own analysis of the categories of the
people contributing to this forum. That still stands.
But, now I would like to try and elaborate on the question
that I have mentioned in the foregoing paragraph.
The question "WHY?".

The question can simply be answered by the phrase, "Because
you all care".

Many Ismailis around the World seem to be fed up of the misbehaving Leaders
and their lakies (wherever it may be in the World - i.e. in any Jamat from the
smallest to the biggest) who take advantages of their powerful posts and
implement the practice of supression, moral blackmail, nepotism etc.,
instead of serving the Jamaats & the community by fairly addressing
the issues of and for the Jamaats & Institutions they are appointed
for, by helping to solve, for example, matters of conflicts etc.,
and help to maintain harmony and high standards.

From what I have heard, they even lie in their reports
and often drag their feet and even do not submit
their reports to Mowla (true or not, only Mowla
knows) and to make it easier for themselves
to hang on to their posts they even resort to
playing one murid against the other and resort to
backstabbing, freezing and condemning the
same people that stand by them when
needed (- all in the name of seva to
Mowlana Hazar Imam).
They recommend titles and lucrative positions
for their lakies and relatives.
They seem NOT to have read the Firman about
running after TITLES....
I can go on and fill pages after pages....

These LEADERS do not hesitate to betray the
same murids who also put their trust in these
LEADERS by risking their own reputations
and even lives, all in the name of Mowla.
I have heard of a person being persecuted
and I have also heard from someone, who
alas is no longer with us today and for
whom I had immense respect for and
gratitude, that some Leaders even
intentionally made Mowla wait
.......... out of disrespect.

To betray the TRUST put in oneself in the name of Allah to serve
humankind and the people or the community one belongs to is
(in my humble opinion), not only irresponsible, but outright
criminal.

I am not at all surprised that many in the TOP Layer of the LEADERSHIP
in our community have utlimately come under fire openly.
Those who have abused the power and the trust vested in them
and still continue to misbehave (I am being reluctantly kind
here by using mild form) are, not only seen as a disgrace
but ARE A DISGRACE and are doing great DAMAGE
to the reputations of thousands of the well-behaved
GOOD Leaders all over the World who are
rendering services to the Communities of
not only Ismailis but even to the neighbouring
non-Ismailis included in the remotest areas
of the World all in the name of Mowla.
Those (few on the top) abusers of TRUST and POWER
vested in them are also a threat to the welfare of our community
at large and do much to scare our young ones from following
in the footsteps of many of our forefathers who served with
great devotion, humility, dignity and honesty.

I am not capable of suggesting what should be done with those
Leaders that have misbehaved and those still "Misbehaving".
Alas, these Leaders seem to have forgotten that
on the advent of Akhiraat - (the Day of Kiyamat)
they will also have to answer (like all of us)
for every sin they have committed and will
be Judged accordingly?.
Only Mowla knows best. I am sure he will act, as
and when he sees fit. I have faith in Mowla.
I am sure you have too.
We can be victims or witnesses, but to Judge is in
the hands of Allah the All-Mighty or those He
has chosen to do so.
(Please do not mix "to Judge" with "judgement"
- they are two different things).
Taking the Law in our own hands would only lead
to more misery, chaos and anarchy.

I live in a country where the natives of the Country
are mostly atheists or non-believers but most of
them belong to a Church and are Christians
only in/by name. They are Lutheran Christians.
Majority of the population seldom attends Church
or does it only upon the occasions of Births
Christenings, Weddings or Deaths
(Funerals or Services), if they
at all do so.

But, believe me or not, even if the slightest of a
catastrophy hits them THE CHURCHES get fully
packed and they go down on their knees for
guidance, help, mercy, comfort, solace
redemption and you name it....
At the same time, many of them are the same ones
who deny that GOD exists and many of them
laugh at us who do believe in existence
of Allah(i.e. GOD) and have a faith
to follow.

See the point?
When things hit the ceiling, there is only one entity
that can save us and give us comfort. Almighty Allah
(or God or Baghwan or whatever you may want to
call him).

Please note here that, The Swedes (or for that matter
the people of the NORDIC Countries) are in the top
of the scale of the most generous people when
it comes to giving and are in top of the scale
of the least corrupt people on this Earth.
They do not make abuse of POWER or TRUST
vested in them.

The native Swedes are compassionate good-hearted
and honest and hard working people.
Sweden is the 2nd most high-tech innovations country
in the World, next to the U.S.A.

The minority consists of Catholics, Jews, Immigrant Muslims
(both Sunnis & Shias), Buddhists, Orthodox Christians
from Syria and the rest of the Middle East, Greek
Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox etc.
I have the fortune of having friends in all these
denominations and have at times been
fortunate enough to discuss their faith
with them as a fellow human being
which has been extremely
educating.
One learns something new every minute of the day.

We, the Ismailis have it all served to us on a plate.
And, even then, we find it difficult to appreciate it.
But, let us not give up hope. I think that we have
a better future waiting for us ahead of us.
With Mowla's Grace.

I do not belong to any of the falangs that seem to have
developed, but I wanted to shed some light on my
own thoughts on the situation that has emerged
as a spinoff "topic" from the "issue" of
the Lawsuit in question.
I have my faith in Mowla and still believe that
all of us should act with restraint, as tempting as
it may be to blow the situation out of proportion,
and have patience and respect for eachother
as momin brothers and sisters. And most
of all for our beloved Hazar Imam.

Finally remember, Abuse of TRUST and POWER does not at all apply
uniquely to our community. It happens in other communities too.
Having said that, it does not mean that we have to accept it.

May mowla Bless You All. Amen.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

allaudfin of Sweden
On October 5th, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

My dear Allaudin of Sweden,
Ya ali Madat,

Many thanks for all your prayers and many advices. This afternoon, I read this exchange between Leornardo Bof (LD), a Brazilian Theologist and His “saintété” Dalai Lama (DL). Please, I humby wish to share with you and with all brothers and sisters in this forum and I transcript for all us the exchange.
The Brazilian asked Dalai Lama about “what is the best religion”?
Dalai Lama answer is very interesting:
“The best religion is the one that gets you closest to GOD. It is the one that makes you a better person”.
What is it that makes me better? Asked the Brazilian theologist!
Dalai Lama answered:
“Whatever makes you more compassionate, more sensible, more detached, more loving, more humanitarian, more responsible, and more ethical. The religion that will do that for you is the best religion”! “I am not interested, my friend about your religion if you are religious or not. What really is important to me is your behaviour in front of your peers, family, work, community, and in front of the world”.
“Remember, the Universe is the echo of our actions and our thoughts. The law of reaction and reaction is not exclusively for physics. It is also of human relations. If I act with goodness, I will receive Goodness. If I act with evil, I will get evil”. “
“What our grandparents told us is the pure truth. You will always have what you desire for others. Being happy is not a matter of destiny. It is a matter of option”!
“Take care of your Thoughts because they become Words.
Take care of your Words because they become Actions.
Take care of your Actions because they become Habits.
Take care of your Habits because they become Character.
Take care of your Character because they become Destiny
And your Destiny will be your Life
And there is no religion higher than the TRUTH”

I hope that some Swedish people give you this kind of answer!
But the reflexions are valuable for all us and to Top leaders in our community also!
Sincere regards and Ya ali Madat
Mohez nato

* France

@mohez Nato
On October 7th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Thank you
Excellent piece of wisdom! I loved it.

* United States

To Brother Moez on The Theologist Leornardo Bof & Dalai Lama
On October 5th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Brother Moez,

Ya Ali Madad
And thank you for your kind words and also for sharing the discussion
between The Theologist Leornardo Bof & Dalai Lama. It was very
interesting. One learns new things every day.

I agree with Dalai Lama. He is a spiritually HIGHLY enlightened person and is a
man of peace. Hence the Chinese Government has branded him as a
provocator and troublemaker because he wants to see Tibet's
independence from China. He is highly respected in Sweden.

It also depends very much on as to from what perspective one is being looked upon.
Some will think negative about you and some positive.
But, if we do not have any moral values and set rules to live our lives by, then
how can we follow a right path? All religions teach the same thing.
If you are a good person, then you have a good religion.
To be a good person is equal to following a good religion.

Now, we have our beloved Imam-e Zamaan who guides us to live by the rules
and basic principles of humanity.

Sadly, there are millions of people in this World (including Sweden) who
do not seek to live a decent life. A life within the framework of what we
call "A life with good moral values". Alas the times are like that now.

People lie, they hurt other innocent people, they cheat, they steal, they are
greedy, they kill etc. BUT, my brother, WE HAVE TO STICK TO OUR
MORAL VALUES and TREAT OTHERS as WE WOULD LIKE
OTHERS TO TREAT US. With KINDNESS AND WITH
RESPECT AND FAIRNESS.

We can not change the World but we can make a difference and
bring to light if anything is not right. It is our duty.

At the same time it is VERY IMPORTANT to ABSTEIN from
GOSSIP, SPECULATIONS, SLANDER etc. and seek
the TRUTH at all times and always try to do good.

We must never accuse anyone of anything unless
we have solid proof, and that also we have to do
within the framwork of the Law that prevails
in the Country we live in.
We must try to do our best to live a kind of life that
will make our nearest and dearest, our workmates
and the people in our environment whose lives we
touch, happy to have us around.
If we fail, then we have at least tried.
BUT, "TRY, WE MUST" and seek for the TRUTH.

We must listen to our beloved Hazar Imam and follow
his guidance at all times. He is there to guide us and
help us to Siraat-al-Mustakeem because that is THE
TRUTH.

We learn from all and eachother. Learning never ends.

I pray for Mowla's blessings upon all of us. Amen.

I thank you again.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Reasons Why?
On October 4th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Thank you believer; My responses to each of your comments. Of course It is up to the 2 defendants or the leaders to consider to start such a dialogue.

7. I feel this case is not about winning for Nagib or Alnaz but winning for the Imam and the Jamat. Imam will be involved in the dialogue process I have suggested. Nagib and Alnaz will therefore have confirmation of guidance from the Imam. Leaders who will participate in this process will include other top leaders. There will be an open discussions in face to face or video meetings. Nagib and Alnaz can justify a request to include their National presidents or Mukhi and certainly the LIF, ITREB and IIS ICAB Heads will participate. (Even though the defendants are at an advantage in the case, and are about to help bring integrity and a cleanup in institutions, they withdraw to save their own reputation and finances at the detriment of their voluntary service to the Jamat)

8. In view of the above all and the process suggested, all such serious concerns will be addressed (The forgers keep forging letters, checks, Talikas, and maybe worse)

9, You are right the Jamat and leaders have been maintaining a status quo for a long time. I believe the 2 root causes will be addressed.Most leaders and the Jamat are or will be aware. Fear of leaders by the Jamat and will be replaced with love and mutual respect. (Jamat listens even more blindly to top leadership because now they can sue people without even proving that it is Hazar Imam who is the Plaintiff)

9. You are right but in the suggestion there will be guidance from the Imam that Farmans and guidance will be available to all Murids. There will be no reason for murids, scholars or Leaders to fear when asking for farmans or for guidance. This will also give more comfort and be a reason for more to come to our centres and JK more often. There will therefore be more interaction. (The Jamat keeps being separated more and more from the Imam and his guidance is no longer a way of life, but only a way of 5-minutes-in-jk-censored-guidance)

10. The process suggested is clear about access to farmans and guidance. What is agreed will be re-endorsed and blessed by the Imam. Leaders will be a part of the process. The Jamat will also be informed of the excellent news and their feed back and questions will be encouraged. They will have no reason to fear. (Jamat now follows Mr Sachedina's point of view that Farmans are not to be followed when you hear them in Didar, wait a few months or years for the Farman to come through itreb before starting to follow it. And if it doesn't come out, forget about it)

11. I don’t understand this comment. If this case is settled by conciliation suggested. The leaders will implement guidance. Attendance in Jk will increase. Attendance at Darbar will also increase significantly. (So, what's the point of Didar attendance? Darbar attendance declines thus saving lots of costs of darbar preparation to institutions)

12. I believe ITREB and the Institutions would not go back but go forward and move on. Because leaders down the line and bottom up will be proactive and to ensure farmans and guidance are available immediately. The settlement will be a catalyst for the 2 root causes. These will addressed as a consequance of the dialogue. There will be the checks and balance in practice in the institutional process. (Farman status goes back to what it was before Nagib started circulating Farmans, so that ITREB would stop feeling the pressure and would not circulate most of the farmans, and those that would be circulated would have VAST differences from the taped version)

The reason I am suggesting this is so that if all else is agreed in an open dialogue between the leadership and the defendants, and this will be blessed by the Imam, and we do not need to have any criminal consequences against our brothers or sister or our institutions. We should forgive and seek forgiveness if we have unknowingly hurt anyone. Let the Imam & the leadership decide on the changes. (Bloglaw, why would the defendants do "#1. Defendants admit the plaintiff is H H Prince Karim Aga Khan" when all evidence points to the contrary??? Do you have any new information???)

Finally during any such open discussions the root causes, related questions and issues will be inevitable come up and will be discussed openly. This is necessary in order to rebuild confidence and trust because the concerns of Nagib and Alnaz’s are shared by most leaders and the Jamat regarding especially the root causes which led to this lawsuit. I hope the defendants will make the first move. It is highly unlikely that the leaders in question or Mr Gray will make a move for a dialogue or conciliation. In making a first move, I do not believe it is a sign of weakness. If the leaders through Mr Gray decline then they will have at least tried.

* United Kingdom

Gray's appeal to another
On October 4th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Gray's appeal to another Judge to set aside Prothonotary Tabib's Order speaks volume. What you suggest is not going to happen and settlement does not seems to be an option for either party.

legal challenges, hurdles,
On October 5th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

legal challenges, hurdles, frustrations and uncertaintty in court proceedings are normal, and specially more so in this lawsuit where there are very high profile individuals and lawyers involved with access to unlimited political and economical resources. I see no harm if the defendants or the leaders attempted to have a dialogue whilst the court process continues.

* United Arab Emirates

Re: above post of librarian-umed of Oct. 4th
On October 5th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Do we know when the result of the appeal will be made public, Librarian-Umed?
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

The Appeal will be heard on
On October 5th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The Appeal will be heard on 12th October in Ottawa. All these days, the Imam will be in Canada.

Re: above post of librarian-umed of Oct. 5th
On October 6th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for replying to my question, Librarian-Umed. This gives us time to pray EXTRA-HARD.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

DIALOGUE AND THE TWO ROOT CAUSES
On October 4th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

The following can be a basis to re start a dialogue between the defendants and the Leaders/Mr Gray. This will be without prejudice and the defendants can make the first move If they have not;

1. Defendants admit the plaintiff is H H Prince Karim Aga Khan;

2. Defendants admit plaintiff’s copyright in all his Farmans and Taliks’s

3. The Aga Khan has agreed to meet the two named defendants entirely at his discretion and convenience for 15 minutes to seek forgiveness and guidance from him. (Mr Gray had offered a meeting in his offer. Mr Gray and or the leaders including other leaders who have so far not been included can be and they can together assure the defendants.. An opportunity to rebuild confidence and trust)

4. The Plaintiff withdraws his claims except that he has copyright which has been admitted by the defendants.

5. No order as to costs

6. The defendants agree not print or distribute books of Farmans or talikas of the Imam. The books in possession of Nagib Tajdin to be delivered to the IIS. (No Injunctions or investigations into numbers or profits )

6 The defendants as members of the community will have access to Farmans and for them to share Imam’s guidance amongst members of the community.

When agreement is reached, Imam’s guidance & instructions will be requested by Mr Gray and the Leaders, which they will confirm to the defendants and jointly to the court.

The two root causes which led to this unprecedented lawsuit to be addressed are;

1 Members of the community have limited and encounter difficulties to access Imam’s Farmans & guidance in all JK’s and or ITREB. (This is still the case and all leaders are aware and have responsibility to enable and ensure)

2 The widening gap between Imam’s institutional and established guidance on best practices and what are in fact the ground realities in practice. (All leaders are aware and have a responsibility to enable and ensure )

I hope and pray that this case will be settled by dialogue and agreement, and I pray it is sooner rather than later

* United Kingdom

You are missing some steps - as well as a reason: why???
On October 4th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

7. Even though the defendants are at an advantage in the case, and are about to help bring integrity and a cleanup in institutions, they withdraw to save their own reputation and finances at the detriment of their voluntary service to the Jamat.

8. The forgers keep forging letters, checks, Talikas, and maybe worse.

9, Jamat listens even more blindkly to top leadership because now they can sue people without even proving that it is Hazar Imam who is the Plaintiff.

9. The Jamat keeps being separated more and more from the Imam and his guidance is no longer a way of life, but only a way of 5-minutes-in-jk-censored-guidance

10. Jamat now follows mr Sachedina's point of view that Farmans are not to be followed when you hear them in Didar, wait a few months or years for the Farman to come through itreb before starting to follow it. And if it doesn't come out, forget about it.

11. So, what's the point of Didar attendance? Darbar attendance declines thus saving lots of costs of darbar preparation to institutions

12. Farman status goes back to what it was before Nagib started circulating Farmans, so that ITREB would stop feeling the pressure and would not circulate most of the farmans, and those that would be circulated would have VAST differences from the taped version.

Bloglaw, why would the defendants do "#1. Defendants admit the plaintiff is H H Prince Karim Aga Khan" when all evidence points to the contrary??? Do you have any new information???

THE OPTIONS
On October 3rd, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

What are the options to stop this lawsuit;

1 IMAM ADMITS HE IS NOT THE PLAINTIFF. This has not happened so far and seems will never happen. The consequences and impact will be significant not for those directly involved but institutionally. Such an admission could also lead to potential criminal consequences.

2 DEFENDANTS ADMIT TO EVERYTHING. This will never happen. The defendants will not go against earlier farmans and guidance from their Imam. Notwithstanding this, they do not trust the leaders involved and there will be potential claims against them not from the Imam but some of parties.

3 THE DEFENDANTS RECONSIDER THE OFFER MADE BY GRAY, This is very unlikely to happen because the defendants have said no to this offer for good reasons (see earlier post on that offer)

4 A MEETING OF 5 MINUTES AT THE IMAM’S CONVENIENCE. In this meeting the Defendants will effectively seek forgiveness and seek direct guidance from their Imam which they will obey without question. This seems unlikely as there is an appeal to set aside the order which the Imam is aware of.

5 THE TOP LEADERS TO MEET THE DEFENDANTS (WITH MR GRAY) to discuss and use this an opportunity to reassure and give reason for more confidence and trust in the Leadership by confronting the root causes of distrust.

a. Some leaders may argue that there is ongoing litigation, the defendants will not change their minds, the Imam may not agree to such conciliation between leaders & defendants, and the lawyers have advised against this or without them present etc.

b. These arguments are the some of the bigger bumps along the way for which they have the vehicles to ride smoothly over. Imam assured us in the London GJ Farmans. There is every reason now to use the vehicle effectively and proactively.

The defendants & Leaders will have considered some of the above options. May be now it is time to re-visit the options and start a new dialogue. Dialogue in conciliation is the only and the best option and never too late too start. Watch this space for the 2 root causes which led to this situation and a basis to start a new dialogue for conciliation (Definition - to bring a disagreement to an end, or overcome, anger, suspicion, and or hostility)

* United Kingdom

@bloglaw
On October 3rd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Why are we still talking of settlement?
If Imam wanted to stop the lawsuit he would have done it in "a second" long time ago.
The reason He did not do it is because he wants it to take its natural course.
The court gave an order to plaintiff to give a meeting with defendants but Hazar Imam is not the real plaintiff he is not obliged to do so.
Defendants are saying all along that HI is not the plaintiff and they have given forensic evidence to that effect.
Now it is up to the court to figure out whether defendants are right or Gray is right.
If Gray keeps on putting out motion after motion avoiding to bring the plaintiff in , how long can he go on ?
At some point the court will say produce your plaintiff otherwise we will dismiss this case in favor of the defendants.
That will be the end.

Why is everyone thinking of settlement still?
That is not a desirable outcome at all. It is way past the time of settlement.
"Dismissal of the lawsuit" as being fake is the best desirable outcome.
Summary judgement in favor of defendants is "imminent." to my mind.
This is the best vehicle without too much bumps.

Hazar Imam will guide us next how to deal with institutions and leaders.
That is an internal matter to deal later on and I am sure LIF meeting on 4th sept may have some insights of Hazar Imam's thoughts.
His message to jamat was as read in JK in early Sept 2010 instructing LIF:
"Communicate"
To my jamat my "my special blessings, my special blessings , my LOVE, my thoughts, and my affection
I have articulated my thoughts to the leaders and and in due course they will communicate them to you"

Why would Hazar Imam get involved publicly at all?.There is no need.
He never started it.
Let whoever started it end it.
Let the court give the judgement .Period.
The history will NEVER say Imame zaman sued a murid.

* United States

Re: Alibhai's above post
On October 3rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you so much for your post and brilliant summary, dear Alibhai Jiwani, and particularly your last line!! Finally, someone else than me is saying that (= last line) on this site! Yeah!!
Thank you also for the line,"Let whoever started it end it. Let the court give the judgment. Period." I just hope it does not take another 6 months, for, quite frankly, I feel exhausted at times by the waiting...
Again, thank you!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Alibhai's above post
On October 4th, 2010 Jenny (not verified) says:

The waiting is where the test of faith is. The Court has given its ruling.
If there are motions after motions, appeals after appeals, the truth will eventually be so clear to the rest of the global jamat,and inshallah maybe there is a top leader somewhere who will stand up and say, "enough is enough"

This is where all our Salwats and Mushkil Aasan tasbhis will guide for the out come that Mowla wants.

* Canada

@ Bloglaw: Wait a minute!
On October 3rd, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

There is one important consideration missing in the above post by bloglaw:

This has happened so often in ismaili history at the times of different Imams starting from Imam Ali, that it would be naive to assume that it can never happen during the Imamat of our beloved Hazar Imam:

If there are leaders at a high level who are misusing the Imam's Name, Circumventing protocols, following nonexistent clauses of the constitution, and worst of all Forging the Imam's signature (possibility of false announcements, or worse: false checks, or worse: false talikas, or worse yet: false Will etc... soooo grave!!)

Then should there be conciliation and everything be swept under an institutional rug?
Or should true ismailis take a stand to bring integrity to institutions - even if it involves a court judgement and a major cleanup?

Let us not let history repeat itself as it predictably does every time in these cases, where majority decides to follow the impostor thinking they are being good murids when they have actually lost the Imam (and access to Farmans) a long time ago...

There are bright red flags throughout this case, we are an educated Jamat who should question those instead of burying our heads in the sand.

Everyone agrees Leaders must
On October 4th, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

Everyone agrees Leaders must not bury their heads in the sand. They are aware and it is their commitment and responsibility to act and react in concert to confront and address the critical issues highlighted by this case
.
When the top 50 leaders met in London 3 weeks ago for 10 days, this lawsuit was not on the agenda or discussed nor were THE critical issues. One of the no no topics. Behind closed doors of course most know and talk. Imam did not mention this lawsuit in his speech when he spoke to leaders for nearly one hour and He gave an opportunity to leaders to ask questions.

The Jamat looks forward to leaders to communicate Imams thoughts and guidance which they discussed amongst themselves in London. A video of the speech or excerpts would be fantastic.

Most Leaders agree privately that both conciliation and change are required, but the question is whether and when will they do so, or is everyone waiting for someone else or for a judgement in this case.

* United Arab Emirates

@Pirani
On October 4th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Thank you for this important information.
I had a bet with a friend that I had bet Mawla must not have said a word about the lawsuit in the LIF meeting. And he said that is unlikely. Thanks for confirming that not a word was spoken by Hazar Imam.

* United States

Re: Believer's above post
On October 3rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for this important note, Believer.
Those of us who are not in "that majority that bury their head in the sand", what can we do not allow history to repeat itself in a tragic manner? Is there any thing we can do?
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

What Leaders and Jamat need
On October 4th, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

What Leaders and Jamat need to do is read, understand, discuss and give reasoned and constructive feedback without fear to their brothers and sisters and if they are leaders to their Leaders. If any leader is not happy with any leaders as Imam has said talk to them and amongst yourselves. Leaders can make a huge difference and they have in place are the institutional mechanisms to do so.

* United Arab Emirates

Bravo!!
On October 3rd, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

I agree with your views. MHI has stressed so many times about knowing our history - how many of us bother to do so and the result is that majority is 'kicked' out of the jamat. I remember reading in of the documents of the defendants where MHI said Ismailis lose the right to be part of the jamat.

Well said.

* Canada

Reading in to the mind of the top leader
On October 3rd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

I think Hazar imam has not initiated this lawsuit but a couple of close working leaders have.
Reading into the mind of one such leader ( A writer's imagination):

“ How to convince this Nagib guy to stop printing these Farman books? How come he is doing what my team is suppose to do? And he has actually done it quite well. But I was supposed to do this. Tarika people are not happy with him either. I never liked him from the beginning since Nairobi time.

He is going to get all the goodwill and Imam’s recognition? What will jamat think of my team and me? We will look bad.

My team does not even have publishing Farman book in the near term agenda yet. It has been only 25years since last small firman booklet Precious gems vol 1! It is not like they are slow or anything.

I have "an idea" actually it is quite simple to stop him. It is very important for my team and me.

Just send one letter with Hazar Imam’s name and considering these guys are so religious they will instantly stop and great! Mission accomplished! I was allowed to sign Imam’s letters any ways when his arm was injured! No big deal! I have open access to the Secretariat always. I don’t think He will mind. He is so busy! So many things for him to worry about any ways! He is a kind man.He does not interfere much.

Let me just go ahead and do it and the letter is going as an attachment to e-mail.
Thank God for technology!
What? Nagib found out it was a forged signature?
No way! It was so close almost real.So far no one found out.
Now what?
I am going to make this man pay for his intellect!
I am no less smart!
This second letter with Imam’s handwritten sentences, in a million years Nagib cannot challenge how can he?
This must work otherwise I am in trouble.
What? Nagib wants real letter by mail?
What? Nagib is disputing authenticity of this cleverly manufactured piece of technology ?

I thought I was good at cut and paste and superimpose technique.
Now what? I should have been more careful with using papers with logo etc .why did I use the same old paper on 2nd page? I am a little careless.
I am so angry with my self and everything else!!! I wish I could do something so serious instantly to end this!
I must teach him a grave lesson.He does not know how much power I have.
He does not know what I can do to him and his family I will ruin them! I am so angry! I think phone warnings will not work on him.

Let me just file a copyright lawsuit on him that is bound to scare the hell out of him! I am not sure but this can go as a copyright infringement.I hear his term so often in real world.
Letter from the federal court of Canada and the man is going to come running to me asking for mercy.I am the CEO.
Copyright is only a civil lawsuit! I can do it.
This kind of lawsuits happens all the time in corporations and they are managed by the CEO s almost always. I just have to do one paper.

I don’t want Imam to be bothered or come to know.
It will be over soon and Mawla will be happy that I took care of such a big problem on my own so efficiently!
Not a big deal!
Convincing LIF is not a problem! A piece of cake.
And the jamat is so obedient! Mawla has given so many credits to institutions during GJ they will believe us like a Farman!
No doubt!
They love their Mawla so much they will easily believe whatever I say in his name!
Now I am desperate I have to finish this game ASAP.I am already frustrated by this 2 renegades

(Top law firm in Canada called, lawsuit filed ASAP)
Oops! forgot to serve Nagib?
Alnaz was served but wasn’t he the one managing the website? He needs to be taken care of anyways. Ismaili.net such a great site even the Alvaezs and scholars go there for researches can you believe that?
How embarrassing for my IIS and Tarika boards! My guys are doing nothing. Not my fault!

What? Lawsuit filed and defendants are still not scared or freaked out! How stupid!
Did I do this wrong or hastily?
May be I should have thought it over? What if Mawla does not stand by? It was not supposed to go this far anyways.
But the copyright lawsuit is supposed to be a civil suit not a big deal?
Man now what?
How to handle this?
Every one is discussing on Ismaili.net. Lot of Momins are thinking I am the guilty one.
No!! Ismailis were not supposed to go on that site after those announcements remember? , How crazy the jamat is!! Nafarmani? Shame on them!

But bingo!
I heard Nagib and Alnaz Glorified their Mawla and showed their willingness to submit everything if they found that Mawla is the Plaintiff! They are not going to fight!
Thank God!
Now I can come out of this mess. I hope Mawla is not sneaking on that website.LIF members are prohibited to go on that site by my orders.

Attorney Gray said it is actually quite simple to bring it to closure. What you need is just an affirmation from Imam to end the matter.
No big deal!
Mawla does not have to be involved as yet! Why bother him I am capable of handling these kinds of issues this is my work!He approves my judgement most of the time.
Easy to create one document! Notary? Big deal?
Outside Canada, Outside Paris third country! USA. I have access to everything I need!
Who is going to verify? Pay extra.

I can easily pull this through!
Once the affirmation is circulated how can Nagib do any thing else. The jamat can be convinced affirmatively with this piece of paper. LIF no problem.They are a bunch of yes heads.
Nagib and Alnaz must abide by their condition of unconditional submission!

By now Hazar Imam is aware of everything? I thought he would never know?
Should I let him know?
I am sure for the sake of the integrity of institution and his reputation he will back me.
And I am protecting his Farmans from these stupid guys who want to make farmans accessible world wide like it is not enough to have them in JK? I am certainly working in his favor.
What should I do? I must tell the Imam. Now I am worried.

I have to but will he come in so late in the game? Will he be angry that I went ahead by myself?
But never mind he is so mellow he never yells.
He never fires any one.
He is cool! He likes me. He made me Vazir.
He trusts me. He takes me to all the trips. But will he be upset?
Months have passed.
But why is Imam not bothered as yet?
I thought he would be at least upset!

May be He does not care for this kind of small stuff! Or he wants me to handle it?
I cannot read The man’s mind! So Peck! He is calm and cool. I can’t tell anything.
Why can’t he atleast let me know what is he thinking? For heaven’s sake! Why is he so quiet? I cannot bear his silence.
Why can’t he declare, “ Stop all this I am not the plaintiff!” I want him to get angry and finish this matter.
Shafik, call and withdraw the case. Why does not he say that?
I am with him for almost 14 years but man I cannot fathom what is in his mind?
He is so deep he is not speaking a word?
How weird!

Here I am using his name and I am in the middle of the worst crisis and this guy is quietly sipping his coffee and preparing for his Mali visit and La Fontaine Baldwin lecture and meeting at Ottawa on pluralism etc. How unconcerned for me?
Here I am shaking and freaking out day and night!

Cross exam was a disaster! Gray is no good? He did not even tell me what answers to give!
This stupid Tazdin he is not even a lawyer and how the hell he knew how to do all these legal inquiries man he was tough! I wonder if a top attorney trained him or someone was prompting him in the exams from under the table?
I thought this Alnaz guy was a 5 dollar lawyer what was he suppose to know?

But man he spanned me on the issue of Farman publishing approval like nuts!
“Approval in principle” is like we are supposed to publish in 2days to 2years? It will take years before such a massive project can be finished! How can I handle so much! It will take at least 5 years by Diamond jubilee may be we will have something done.

It was so important to have an article in constitution regarding copyright of Firmans but this Imam just removed it I can’t understand why?
48 th Imam was better he at least had that article in constitution. It would have been so much easier for me.

I have so many responsibilities not like I have time to do them and Farmans are read in Jk everyday! Why does jamat need a farman book anyways?Only a few fanatics want to read Firmans all the time rest of us have no time! You can make an appointment with Tarika board if you are crazy about reading them. Just like you make for a doctor. Like it is any hassle to do so?
Just do tasbih that’s enough!! Mawla said so! Did’nt he?
Let the next batch of leaders do this boring job of compiling and publishing Farmans
I am just happy traveling with Imam everywhere and eating Buffets in various countries with big people how fun!I am so lucky.I get so much honor!

What? Nagib refused the settlement?
I thought the guy was nuts about meeting Imam I thought he will agree to anything for those 5 minutes
What? he is refusing to sign the paper saying he accepts that real plaintiff was Hazar Imam?
He must sign that.
Otherwise he will not leave me afterwards.
Any ways Imam is still quiet so let me continue.

He must otherwise at least tell me what to do next. Like his name is not at stake here?
His leadership is in trouble he must protect us.I am his CEO.He has no choice?
May be he is thinking I am capable handling my own troubles. I am quite experienced actually.
Gray is smart he will save me for sure.
How he brought our own forensic expert! How smart!
He can always bring in motion after motion.
As long as I can keep Imam from meeting them the game can continue
But man I am nervous! That’s why I made mistakes in cross exams.

All these Momins on Ismaili.net say Mawla is Ali Allah and he knows everything in and out!
How freaky! They have their own religion! . They think Mawla is Omniscient! I never felt that way. I wonder why?
But the guys on Vancouverite are supporting me! Thank god! They are so sweet. I will keep going till they are with me.I

May be I must start BK bandagi and Jamatkhana attendance then may be I will also be helped? Remember, when I was a Mukhi I was so good in Jamatkhana attendance? It helped me to go so high; I must start again a.m. and p.m.
For now it is okay .Let us just see what Atty Gray is saying.

He is thinking of not abiding by court order and bringing in a motion to stop the meeting
Thank God otherwise how would I have convinced Imam to meet them?
He knows nothing of this stuff. It does not look like he wants to be involved at all!”
Disclaimer:
It is only a writer’s imagination. No one is claiming it to be true.

* United States

Re: Alaudin Alibhai's above post of Oct. 3rd
On October 4th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Bravo!! Bravissimo!! This is such a good, possible scenario!! It looks so real is some places!! Thank you for it! I must admit I did laugh very hard in a couple of places...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Sorry Kanize - It was Alibhai Jiwani who wrote on 3rd Oct
On October 5th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Mominsister Kanize,

There was a mix up.

It was not I that wrote what you liked very much
on 3rd Oct. It was Mr. Alibhai Jiwani.

Just to put the facts right.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

@Kanize
On October 5th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Are you mistaking Alibhai jiwani for Alaudin ?
please check the name .
thanks

* United States

Bravo bravo
On October 5th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

I too read it a couple of times and it felt as if SS wrote it himself. It was assuming but realistic.

So many write such wonderful posts. Keep it up.

* Canada

Inside the mind of top leader
On October 4th, 2010 Jenny (not verified) says:

WOW!!!, Alibhai Jiwani, this is the best synopsis ever!..I know you've said it's only a writer's imagination, but it could also be true.

I pray that May Mowla grant us the wisdom and guidance to do the right thing.

* Canada

@ Alibhai Jiwani
On October 4th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

My imagination matches your imagination, but it is slightly stretched further:
These ordinary duo—Nagib and Al Naz—have really become pain in my neck. Lately some sleepless nights too.
My doctor says take rest but don’t take stress and no sleeping pills. I never took stress… but …well……this is entirely different situation. Though I have played my game well, but these two suborned persons are really horrible.
I have been very successful in my life …I rose from Mukhi to member of council and then reached to the top and now I am CEO. …No one ever challenged me but these diehard Murids.
Now who can save me… thought…? Horrible, why did I teased these two guys…but well need a lesson or two.
I don’t understand why so many guys are supporting this Heritage web… this is a very nasty, awesome site ….Are some people foolish…Why are they unfair to me… I have to admit they never use uncivilized language, but they need to have trust in their top leadership rather than these two guys. I think all these guys needs to be taught a lesson or two, too. .. But how….well I will see them later, but I must come out from this quagmire first.
For last couple of days, I am also experiences headache…these incorrigible stubborn persons….pain in my neck.
Yes, Mr. Gray is a very nice guy…only he can save me… but for how long. If necessary, I will pay him more….but Heritage people say … not more than two years. Then what?
Oh my God, it’s already 2 a.m...Its sleeping time…where is my sleeping pills bottle?

Disclaimer: No one claims it to be true

Wow !!!
On October 4th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Well written and thought out. I am truly impressed by many writers who are very knowledgeable, dedicated and are right on point.

The above post is well written and thought out.

* Canada

Why delay? What is the purpose?
On October 2nd, 2010 Another Ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

In response to a question posed to a journalist as to why Mr. Gray filed his expert’s affidavit at this later stage, and why HI can not come to court to clarify the signature problem, the journalist wrote (not at Heritage site): “Ever heard difference in dignity between one of the greatest souls on the earth and the two people have delusion of divine message and mission……”

First of all let me correct him that HI is not one of the …. But He is the soul of the souls. Next, that person wants us to believe that dignity of HI is affected if he comes to the court to testify.

Brother, would you please let me know whether all Imams are equal or not and that each one is in fact Maula Ali? Now listen, in Barbhai’s case (1866) Imam Aga Hasan Ali Shah filed an affidavit and he also appeared in Bombay High court to testify before Justice Josheph Arnold. In the similar fashion, MSMS filed an affidavit and appeared in the same court before Justice Russell and testified in Haji Bibi case (1908).

Do you see that two Imams during their tenure presented themselves before Bombay High court, which was not the highest court of India? I have also read that Maula Ali, our first Imam, appeared before a Qazi court when he was both Imam and the fourth caliph of Islam.

So why can not HI present before the highest court of Canada to clarify/ testify for his case, when according to His purported or so called first letter, He wanted immediate stopping and circulation of the Farman Book? His presence in the court would have not only instantly achieved the whole purpose but also would have proved the defendants to be liars.

Now just let us know, how can we believe that this case has been filed by HI, and at the same time, He is not ready to come to the court to testify?

Agreed, as per His so called second letter, He did not want to meet Nagib. But what is the problem of attending the court only once and that too for few minutes just to say that He has written those letters. And in that case Nagib and Al Naz, as per their affidavits, have no alternative but to fulfill all the demands HI.
Taking again the point of dignity, where was HI’s dignity when He stood before an ordinary notary, presented His French passport to him and signed before him knowing well that this original affirmation/affidavit was never going to be submitted in the court by his lawyer Mr.Gray?

By delaying the case for about six months or so, what has the plaintiff achieved? Nothing. On the other hand, in the absence of the court injection, the defendants have more than six months of time to print and sale/distribute all the remaining stock. The end result – even the case is won by the plaintiff, there wouldn’t have left any copies to which IIS can take into their possession. Was this not the main demand in the plaint of the plaintiff?

Can then anybody tell what the purpose/ motive is behind filing this case? To intimidate defendants and to ruin them financially in the community? If these are the motives, is it any difficult to guess as to who is using the plaintiff’s name?

@ Another Ordinary Murid
On October 4th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

You have rightly pointed out flaws. Next I went to my distant relative’s house in Karachi and to my surprise I found at least four Farman books not printed or published by any Ismailia Association or Tariqa Board. Though she has some books of Ismailia Association. The most surprising thing is that one book was ‘the book’ related to this case. I don’t know how she got it, nor did I ask. But it also means there may be other copies in Karachi, Bombay and possibly else where too with other Ismailis.

When I informed my aunt that this copy is unauthorized and announcement to this effect is already made at Canada and Nairobi by LIF. She said why I should bother. The announcement is not made here.

Is it not right that such announcement be made by LIF all over Pakistan, India, Bangla Desh etc., too.
Also on behalf of plaintiff, Mr. Gray should have obtained injunction against printing and distribution by the defendants initially before the start of the case. There might not be any copies left with distributor.

So you are right in saying that in these last six months plaintiff has achieved nothing. This also leads me to believe that the case is not filed by HI.

Why delay? What is the purpose
On October 3rd, 2010 sakarbai (not verified) says:

just wait for the lighting bolt to strike on nagib n alnaz

Re: above post of Another Ordinary Murid
On October 3rd, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for sharing this with us, brother. I do hope you were able to clarify matters for the journalist in question on the website concerned also...
To my knowledge, the sale of the books of Farman was stopped very early in the year...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

But what is the problem of attending
On October 3rd, 2010 Alaudn Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Momin Brother/Sister,

Ya Ali Madad.

You have made several statements that are very true.

Until the ruling against it being the 2nd letter is made (this is my opinion, from my own experiences) the letter from Mowla is not a His so called second letter but it is the second letter. Disregarding, what the truth might be you have already casted doubt upon the credibility of Mowlana Hazar Imam.

You also ask, and here I quote you Sir, "Taking again the point of dignity, where was HI’s dignity when He stood before an ordinary notary, presented His French passport to him and signed before him knowing well that this original affirmation/affidavit was never going to be submitted in the court by his lawyer Mr.Gray?".I Unquote you.

You have here questioned Mowla's dignity, and you are asking a question pertaining to that to the rest of the world. You are also asking, I quote you, "Can then anybody tell what the purpose/ motive is behind filing this case?", I unquote you, and you are asking, I quote you, "But what is the problem of attending the court only once and that too for few minutes just to say that He has written those letters.", I unquote you.

Perhaps you could write to Mowlana Hazar Imam (through your Regional Council or via Mukhi Kamadias) and ask him yourself, and that is possible. Only Mowla knows the truth. He IS THE TRUTH. Your questions can not be answered by anyone other than our beloved Mowlana Hazar Imam. He is the Lord and as I said He is THE TRUTH and knows THE TRUTH in this case too.

Mowlana Hazar Imam is Imam-e-Zamaan, and Mowla has said time and again that The Imams of the time act, guide and lead his murids and make changes according to the time during His Imamat. Hazar Imam has lead us and guided us all these years and even given us advice with regard to near future and future at large in the long run. Hence you question HIS DIGNITY.

Mowlana Sultan Mahomed Shah datar (sws) mentioned again and again that one can take the Horse to the water-hole but it is upto the Horse to drink the water or not.

You, my momin brother/sister, are GUESSING equipped with (like many others on this forum) very little information (none of us has all the information) as to what the truth is and making assumptions that someone wants to intimidate and (financially) ruin our Momin brothers Nagib and Alnaz, and then asking the question if it is difficult to guess as to who is using the plaintiff's (for decency you could have used "Mowlana Hazar Imam's name" here) name.

The turth is never arrived at by way of speculations, Inuendos, guesswork and assumptions when one is not equipped with all the material pertaining to the case. Guessing and inuendos do not work in a civilised Country. They may very well work in a very corrupt country or a so called Banana Republic. Thankfully, Canada is neither.

Moreover, I have read on this forum much about how powerful both Mr. Nagib and mr. Al Naz are and how they are pounding Mr. Gray and the witnesses of Mowla (as he is still the Plaintiff until proven otherwise i the Court) and are on the winning streak. I don't think that these two gentlemen are that weak that anyone can just go and ruin them when they are powerful enough to question Mowlana Hazar Imam's signature's authenticity. They ARE POWERFUL and I do not think that anyone can ruin them.

According to my perception of what you have written, You are belittling him by addressing Mowla like you would address a small kid or someone out of line when you use the phrase "But what is the problem of attending ............etc.".

I really do not think that what you have written, helps Mr. Nagib and Mr. Al Naz and therefore they must get a chance to defend themselves without all guessworking from others.

Finally, please DO NOT FORGET that Mr. Nagib and Mr. Al Naz are Mowla's murids as much as you and I are and that we should all PRAY for a quick and fair solution to this matter.

I wish you well, and May Mowla Bless You. Amen.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden.

* Sweden

Why delay? What is the purpose?
On October 2nd, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Very well said, this is so fishy, Mr Gray does not want the case to end, he is trying everything possible by law to just postpone, to argue, Mr Sachedina wants to show us that he is the man with power, his goal is to ruin Nagib and ALnaz and the family in every way possible, financial, reputation. Is this an Ismaili thinking, Mowla keeps saying to us that we are brothers and sisters, share what you have in excess, help those who need help, I don't see any of this on that leader. But as Mowla told us in Tanzania in 82, it is for the defendants of course, `' where there is a will, there is a way and our will is the ismail will''. Alnaz and Nagib, as I said before, our prayers are with you, Mowla chose you to fight against this bureaucracy and this power of some people working close to him, and you have the guts to do it and not to forget to stay humble.

* Canada

Gray appeals Tabib's Order
On October 1st, 2010 Praying in India (not verified) says:

The Docket says that there is a Notice of Motion on behalf of Plaintiff for an Order setting aside the Order of Prothonotary Tabib dated 24-SEP-2010

Are the lawyers trying to derail the process and avoid the fastest way to resolve the issue. Proof enough that they are not representing the Aga Khan and they will drag the reputation of the Imam and the Jamat in the mud.
But we have also to understand them: How do they tell the judge that they can not bring the Aga Khan at the table without being themselves in trouble? At some point they will have to, but there too much at stake for them.
I think this appeal is a complete disregard for the process put in place by the prothonotary Tabib who was trying to bring the file to a fast closure.

Common sense question and answer.
On October 2nd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

If Hazar Imam indeed wanted Nagib and Alnaz to stop publishing and distributing the farman books the simplest and sure effective method would have been to send a brief "talika" instructing Jamat Not to read any farman book other than the one published by tarika board.
This one sentence "farman talika" would have made the entire world jamat do exactly what Mawla wants regarding firman publication forever .
"It is Farman" No "ifs" and "buts" period.
Nagib and Alnaz would have been automatically discredited.No one would buy their books
No harsh LIF announcements needed , no law suit , nothing.
Straight and simple.
Therefore I believe it is not Mawla who has done this lawsuit it is almost clear.
Why would he take a rough road when short straight forward road is right there?
Mawla just cannot be the plaintiff my heart says again and again

* United States

Re: Alibhai's above post
On October 3rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Sorry if this sounds rude, but, alas, I would not, I could never trust such a Talika as the one you mention in your post (for the very reasons given by Alnaz here below).
And rest assured your heart is right when it tells you again and again that it is not Mowla Bapa who has engaged this law suit: an Imam would NEVER sue a mureed whose bayyat He has accepted, period.
I don't stop being baffled at the number of people who still do not see or know or remember this simple truth...No offense meant.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Talika?
On October 2nd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

I am fearful that some our our leaders have forged MHI's signature and.a forged Talika can be sent to the jamats, there is a precedent for same.

Acordingly I would not rely on a Talika today as 100% foolproof.

My belief is that IF, a big if, MHI has been frowning upon the Farman books distribution which has been ongoing at least simce 1992, he could have made Farmans across the world during the Golden Jubilee deedars against the buying of these books and even publishing the books.

Other option he had was to prohibit these activities in the Constitution.

* Canada

The Imam would never send
On October 2nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The Imam would never send such a Talika as the Farman book, Golden Edition, was published following His instructions, with His blessings and a million miracles which are needed to finish such a project. Those who have seen the book and read it would understand. Those who have shredded and burned the Farmans book will never understand. These two groups live worlds apart. Whoever the Imam chose to get His guidance received the book, all those who were not supposed to receive it will never receive it unless they pray for Imam's mercy upon them.

Re: above post of librarian-umed
On October 3rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
People have really shredded and burnt the Farman book, librarian-umed ?!! How could they have done that ?!! Hayrè... Such a beautiful book...

* Canada

unless they pray for Imam's mercy upon them
On October 3rd, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad.

Let us pray for Mowla's mercy upon all of us. We are all
murids. WE are not perfect and some of us make
drastic mistakes and some of us have the fortune
of having an easier life. We are all brothers and
sisters. And as someone said on this forum,
we should be there for eachother and help
eachother.

I am sure that MOWLA knows best and a FAIR outcome will
be the result in the end.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Gray appeals Tabib's Order
On October 2nd, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Another hint that Mowla is not behind the case and again another proof that Mr Gray and Sachedina did not want Nagib and Alnaz to meet Mowla. If it happens and I pray that it will happen, it will be the end and we'll have the answer. For Gray, it's not acceptable because his reputation is at stake and what a loss of money too...

* Canada

Discovery
On September 30th, 2010 An ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

Without doubt, both Nagib and Al Naz will soon fulfill all the conditions set by management case judge so as to enable them to pave a way for ‘the’ meeting.
Let us assume that Mr. Gray does not take any step to thwart this meeting and the meeting takes place.
I am sure that you both – Nabib and Al Naz – are very regular in your BK Bandagi as well as in performance of special prayers to confront the situation. I am equally sure that your family members are with you.
Please be assured that many like me in this group are also praying for successful outcome of this case soon. My elders use to give me following advice, and they worked for me successfully:
1. When you meet MaulaBapa, He responds to you according to how you perceive Him, what are your good wishes (નેક મુરાદ) and what guidance you seek from Him.
2. Even He meets you at a non-religious function, you should not utter a single word until and unless He specifically asks or permits you.
3. In His physical presence, continue to recite His Holy name, silently with your heart and mind in recitation.
4. Imam is Imam all the time, each day, each hour, each minute, each second and each moment, whether He is in a religious function or in a social function. Always behave with Him with that understanding.
5. He is the bearer of Noor, Noor of Allah, and hence unique.

Dear Nagib and Al Naz, I hope you must be busy preparing your self spiritually for the meeting. It may happen that Mr. Gray might ask you to question Hazar Imam. But don’t rush for it. First seek Maula’s permission. He knows every thing. Perhaps He may not give you any chance to ask and may give you advice, instructions or order.
Though He is always with you spiritually—particularly in your BK Bandagi, in his physical presence what count are: your immense love for Him, your Nek Murad, and your incessant recitation of His Holy name.
I sincerely feel if this meeting takes place, Maula Bapa will be pleased with you and your families. He might not tell you all such things in presence of non-Ismailis such as Mr. Gray and others, but His smile, His face expressions and His body language which you only can observe and feel. Remember, the unique experience of al-Muyyad fil-Din al-Shirazi during his visit to palace of Imam al-Mustansir bi Allah in Cairo. All others present there did not experience any such thing.
He is the same Maula who in His 48th Joma clearly Farmaned:” If you love us once, we love you hundred times more.” And I know you both love Maula Bapa much more than people like me.
The advice of my elders really worked for me when on one non-religious occasion I was introduced to Maula Bapa. It worked because even in that non-religious event, He was not Agakhan for me but my Muala Bapa.
I pray for your success.

Well said
On September 30th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

I received a call to log on and to read a "touching" comment. Yes it is truly touching and thanks for such a heartfelt post. True Ismailis have a built in natural inclination to encourage other Ismailis to love and worship the imam and what he stands for. Fidais have given lives for this noble cause.

I had said in one earlier post that MSMS said to consider those who stop you from reading our Farmans as our enemies. And a natural understanding of this Farman is that those who encourage love and devotion to and for the imam as you have done are true momins.

However, I am certain that the discovery will not take place, Mr. Gray told the court that he would appeal any orders allowing us discoveries and I expect him to do so. Normally such comments by lawyers are frowned upon and considered ill-advised as it is considered as someone seeking to intimidate judges.

Thanks again for your loving guidance. And Ameen to all the prayers being offered for us.

* Canada

Discovery process
On September 30th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Excellent post by "an ordinary murid". very touching.
The defendants must not be disheartened even if atty Gray thwarts the meeting which I think he will.

Remember Pir Saderdin a highly enlightened soul, had Imam's physical deedar only twice in his life time.
But he was in touch with the Imam every moment except those 6months and six days when he developed ego and did not consider Pir Hasan Kabirdin 's plea for accompanying him for deedar.

Experience his batuni presence all the time and get guidance through his Noor as you have been doing so far.
Journey may not be over as yet.stay humble and in Zikar all the time.

If Mawla is not the real plaintiff he is not obliged to meet so that is quite likely meeting may not be needed at all.

* United States

@ Alibhai Jiwani
On September 30th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Though I am not pessimist, it is highly unlikely that the meeting takes place on the 15th of October. Various steps taken by Mr. Gray at different points of time lead me to believe this. He is likely to submit a motion to relieve of the meeting.
If he is really serious to resolve the matter by 15th this is a best opportunity for him. He should advice his client Hazar Imam to schedule for 5 to 10 minutes meeting for the purpose when He is in Canada.

Tell his client!!!!
On October 2nd, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Gray would tell Mowla bapa only if Mowla bapa is his client, that is why he seems to be fighting and now appealing the order.

* Canada

Mr. Gray and discovery
On October 1st, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

The more I peruse the court documents and the more I study different tactics employed by Mr. Gray, the less chance I feel the case gets through the court even by the end of this year.
Agreed, Mr. Gray may be the best lawyer around the globe, but the courts in Canada are fair to everybody. For how long can he delay the case by different legal tactics? One more year? But what after that, the truth is going to prevail.
Granted the affidavits of expert submitted by Gray may discredit Mr. Ospreay’s findings. But then this will make the judge more suspicious as to why the plaintiff himself did not file his own affidavit/ affirmation he signed few moths back. Did plaintiff not know at the time of affirmation he signed at Boston as to what was its purpose and what could be its implication?
It’s a civil case and the defendants have every right to present their case from all angles. The Federal court, being fair, can not delay indefinitely the ‘discovery’ request of the defendants. Though Mr. Gray has the ability and resources to delay the case but not beyond the end of the next year.

Mr Ospreay is no small
On October 2nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Mr Graham Ospreay is no small forensic expert, just saying that he is not competent does not really convince a judge. There are too many weaknesses in the counter-expertise. Soon there will be the cross-examination of Gray's expert, lets see how he replies to questions by defendants.

Mr Graham Ospreay that the defendants choose is amongst the most ethical and qualified experts in Canada. Graham has been called upon to give evidence and provide expert witness testimony for both criminal and civil matters in Provincial and State Courts as well as various Arbitration & Review Board Hearings. His case work is international in scope and includes forensic examinations and testimony throughout Canada and the United States. He has provided both training & educational seminars, security and forensic investigations and opinion evidence in North and South America, Europe, United Arab Emirates, Israel, the United Kingdom, the Soviet Republic, India, Pakistan, Japan, China and South Korea.
http://www.theiia.org/chapters/index.cfm/view.event_detail/cid/8/event_i...

you should reas the 2 nd
On September 30th, 2010 salima (not verified) says:

you should read the 2 nd letter Hazer Imam sent to Mr Jiwa, " you on other hand sought to have meeting with me, which is neither necessary or possible"

This sums it up. Hazer imam will not meet Nagib& alnaz

* Canada

@Salima
On October 1st, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

The letter you mentioned is in dispute, and court has yet to rule on it, perhaps along with the main judgement.

@asif Monin, how come your
On October 1st, 2010 salima (not verified) says:

@asif Monin,

how come your views differ from UMED , He claims the letter is PROVED to be forgery, and you claim it is in dispiute, ??

* Canada

You are ill-informed. There
On September 30th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

You are ill-informed. There has never been any such correspondence from anyone before the lawsuit to Mr Jiwa. This letter you are referring to has been proved to be a forged letter. The law of Canada applies to everyone, there is no distinction. Please inform yourself properly.

Ill informed
On September 30th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

It is easy to make simple decisions, why bother to read all of the documents to come to a right decision.

* Canada

Anant Akhado - Story of a Historic Mehmani presentation
On September 30th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

Your above comment is very timely. I just came accross the following link about Anant Akhado. It details what happened when Hassan Kabirdin (not yet Pir) went to meet Imam anyways after Pir Sadardin refused to take him:

http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/30134
Extract:
"
This piece of widely accepted ismaili sacred literature gives the detailed account of a Mehmani submitted around 600 years ago in which a piece of literature was offered to the Imam of that Time (Islam Shah) in a Short Mehmani.

This piece of Literature was the Anant Akhado written by Hassan Kabirdin as an individual effort, it reiterated many fundamental tenets and beliefs of the Ismaili Faith and was presented as being a rendering of the Farmans of the Imam, it was written on the cloth of a turban, and the mehmani was offered by its author in the form of a turban, not of a mere cloth. In a few instants, the Imam accepted the Mehmani offering and gave it back to Hassan Kabirdin.

As a result, Hassan Kabirdin considered the gift returned for sharing among ismailis. It is afterwards that Hassan Kabirdin got the official title of Pir. Pir Hassan Kabirdin updated the text to include an account of the Mehmani event, and widely circulated his text. To date, there are many manuscripts showing that the work was copied and kept by ismailis in their homes, and to date, this text is preserved and recited daily in Jamatkhanas before the evening prayer.
"

Imam's expectations
On September 30th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

MSMS said, Don't see what we do, but do what we tell you to do. What did he mean by saying don't see what we do?

Today this litigation is on in his name? Is he the real plaintiff or has his name been misused? If misused why is he silent? But if he is the real plaintiff why is he not in charge of the litigation? Why has he not allowed to file his Affirmation as evidence?

If he is the real plaintiff would he not be eager to attend for discoveries to stop the defendants from distributing the Farmsns he wants stopped?

Upon reflecting, I can't help but agree with the defendants, and feel, strongly now then before, that MHI is not behind the litigation

* Canada

What's happening to this forum
On September 28th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Guys, I thought that people who were participating on this forum were civilised and objectives, please stay like that. We have a main issue here which is the publication of the Farmans, and the copyright, the defendants are fighting for these. Please stick on this subject. Don't bring emotions or insults on this forum, stay clean. Thank you

* Canada

.... participating on this forum were civilised.....
On September 29th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Sister Rabya,

Ya Ali Madad.

Well said, dear Momin Sister.

At the same time, you know that the FORUM is being visited by people
around the World, with different cultures (although sharing the same faith)
and the differences are in its extreme at times.

Yes, indeed, I agree that we should all strictly stick to the issues
in question pertaining only to this case. I am sure that most of
those who participate are civilised and objective and will
implement that virtue.

It is all very sad indeed. But let us hope for the best.

We are, after all, Momin brothers and sisters, Globally
and Mowla's Murids.

May Mowla Bless us all. Amen.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

What did Presidents do?
On September 28th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Did any of the Presidents who received the 2 LIF announcements decide not to read them in their JK’s ?

When LIF sends a communication for the Jamat, the president will read, consider and seek clarification if he feels he needs to. He will then discuss with his VP and Chairs and or the relevant bodies formally and informally. Then he will do what he considers is in the best interest of the Jamat in his area. Different areas will have different considerations for different reasons.

So what happened in the case of the 2 LIF announcements when they were received by each of the Presidents. How many sought clarification from the Chairman of LIF, How many consulted their VP and Chairs of ITREB. How many did not announce in all or some or all JK’s in their areas. There are Presidents who decided not to make the announcement. I wonder if the Chairman of LIF were informed and why ? Finally what did the LIF Chairman do when he received a copy of the announcement after it was approved and sent by DR Sachedina?.

Imam set up the constitution, institutions and the institutional framework so that there are also checks and balances which Imam has time and again reminded & guided us are necessary and very important.

This case has given leaders and the Jamat an excellent opportunity to re-visit many of the ground realities highlighted by this case. The meeting in London recently was an excellent opportunity to do so and to seek guidance on them and addressing the challenges of the next decade of the global miniaturization and the creative societies.

I am sure everyone is happy that the case looks like coming to an end in the coming week or two. Mawla knows and knows best. I hope & pray that we will all learn from this experience and move forward with Imams blessings and guidance in replacing fear with love, divisions with unity, by embracing meritocracy and pluralism and making them a living part of our daily lives. Ameen

* United Kingdom

Order dated 24-SEP-2010
On September 27th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Order dated 24-SEP-2010 rendered by Mireille Tabib, Prothonotary Matter considered with personal appearance The Court's decision is with regard to Case Management Conference Result: "

1. To the extent the Plaintiff wishes to move for leave to file a responding expert affidavit in opposition to the Defendants' motion(s) for summary judgment, a motion record on motion for leave to do so shall be served and filed no later than 27-SEP-2010, and shall be made returnable at General Sittings in Ottawa, beginning at 9:30 a.m. on 30-SEP-2010, by telephone conference.

2. Responding motion records to the Plaintiff's motion for leave to file an additional affidavit shall be served and filed no later than 29-SEP-2010 at 2:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

3. If leave is granted to the Plaintiff to file a further affidavit in opposition to the Defendants' motion(s) for summary judgment, cross- examination on that affidavit shall take place during the week of 4-OCT-2010.

4. The transcript(s) of all cross-examinations conducted on all affidavits filed in the context of the parties' respective motions for summary judgment shall be filed no later than 13-OCT-2010.

5. The Judicial Administrator shall advise the parties of the earliest dates of availability for a hearing of the parties' respective motions for summary judgment, in English, preferably in Toronto but possibly in Ottawa if an earlier date is available, for a duration of 2 days, after 15-OCT-2010, bearing in mind that the parties are not available on October 19, 20, 22, 25, 27, 28 and 29, 2010 and on November 4, 6, 10 and 12, 2010 and from November 15 to December 3, 2010.

6. The Defendants shall serve on the Plaintiff their respective affidavit(s) of documents no later than 8-OCT-2010.

7. Notwithstanding that the Plaintiff has yet to serve an affidavit of documents, the Defendants have leave to serve a direction for the Plaintiff to attend to be examined on discovery at a mutually convenient date, on the following conditions: (a) Both Defendants must have served their affidavit(s) of documents prior to serving a direction to attend. (b) The direction to attend must be served at least 10 days prior to the date set out for the examination on discovery. (c) The examination on discovery must be scheduled on a date where the Plaintiff is scheduled to be in Canada on other matters, failing which the direction to attend must be accompanied by travel and attendance costs and must be served at least 30 days prior to the attendance. (d) The examination on discovery must not last more than 15 minutes. (e) The Defendants will be deemed to have waived their right to receive an affidavit of documents from the Plaintiff and to request further attendance on discovery of the Plaintiff.

8. If the Defendants do not abide by the conditions set out in the previous paragraph, the examination on discovery of the Plaintiff shall await the time at which the Plaintiff serves its affidavit of documents and shall be scheduled in the course of a case management telephone conference to be convened for "the" purpose.

9. Should the Defendants comply with the conditions set out above and serve a direction to attend on the Plaintiff, and the Plaintiff wishes to be relieved from his obligation to comply with the direction to attend, a full motion record seeking such relief shall be served and filed without delay and may be made returnable at a Special Sitting to be set by the Case Management Judge, in which case the Plaintiff shall provide all parties' joint dates of availability to participate in "such" a case management telephone conference, or at General Sittings in Ottawa on September 30, at General Sittings in Montreal on October 4, or at General Sittings in Ottawa on October 7, 2010."
Filed on 24-SEP-2010 certified copies sent to parties Transmittal Letters placed on file. entered in J. & O. Book, volume 1101 page(s) 148 - 151 Interlocutory Decision

discovery process
On September 27th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

What my gut feeling is that if indeed Hazar imam is the real plaintiff ,he will certainly meet with the defendants for 15 mins when he is in Toronto on oct 15th 2010 for the lecture.
But if he is not then we can expect a motion by Atty Grays to thwart the meeting.
In that case we are in for some more revelations!
That might really be in favor of defendants though seemingly it will appear just the opposite.
I hope Nagib and Alnaz are not missing their BK bandagi.
IF they are staunch in that practise there is a guarantee by our Pirs that they will not be hurt.

Eji koi Upay nahi hai taranko, Yeh hai taranki bari
Chot na lage us re santanko
Jamada rahya jakhmari re
wala dhanre ghadi jo din sant padhariya....

Meaning:

Even when there is no solution in sight ,
Ibadat bandagi is the "certain" way to remove the calamity
A true momin will not be hurt by even the angel of death unless permitted
blessed are those who are blessed by Mawla's grace
Ginan by Sayed Mohammadshah giving a binding promise to true momins

* United States

Alibhai jiwani
On September 28th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

I feel the same way, that if HI is not the real plaintiff, Mr. Gray would find out a way out.

What does all this legal language mean in a nutshell?
On September 27th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

From what I understood does it mean Plaintiff wants to submit one more affidavit from an expert(handwriting)?
Also is court directing that plaintiff may grant a 15 minute meeting to the defendant for discovery?
Then this could happen during the 15th oct visit to Toronto?
I am not sure whether I am understanding it right

* United States

Will the case now be settled ?
On September 27th, 2010 Murad Umed (not verified) says:

As I read it the defendants need to file their affidavit of documents before 8th Oct. After serving they can serve a direction for Hazar Imam to attend for 15 minutes.

If that happens, more motions affidavits etc are not needed and the case is closed because the defendants have said all along they need only 5 minutes. The defendants have also said all along that they are willing to meet Hazar Imam at his convenience.

Let us all hope and pray that this case is closed during the next visit of Hazar Imam to canada. Ameen

* United Arab Emirates

Expert's affidavit from Paintiff side?
On September 29th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Once the court has given directive for 15 min meeting with Hazar Imam , Is any affidavit of the expert from Plaintiff's side of any significance?
I think it is of no value .
Everything will be confirmed at the meeting
Why are any cross examination by defendants needed either?
There should be just one more step of "meeting" and that should conclude all.
May be Attny Gray was not anticipating that court could would give this order?

* United States

The Judge may have
On September 29th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The Judge may have anticipated that Gray may not be able to convince the Imam to attend a discovery for a lawsuit that he may never have initiated. And she may have also anticipated that the Imam not coming to the examination, all procedures will have to continue anyway.

The counter-expertise is of no value really and therefore the defendants have allowed to its late filing therefore they will cross-examine the expert. The counter expertise is proof that they have no access to the Imam. If the Imam was their client they would not need a counter expertise which in any case did not say that the Imam was the person that signed the forged documents.

Mr Grays's expert is merely
On September 30th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

Mr Grays's expert is merely trying to throw doubt and giving a differing opinion.

An experts job is to give his view on signatures not to research another experts expertise and give an opinion on that experts credentials or experience. Maybe in Canada this is different ?

So now the new expert when cross examined needs to also give specific information and the various court cases where he says certain qualification have been questioned and then to show that members of associations he belongs have NEVER differed and if they did, one of them was wrong. So does that then make him and all members of that association questionable and discredited as he seems to be suggesting ?

It is strange that Imam's contemporaneous original signatures were not given to Mr Gray's expert to compare to the 3 signatures in question?

If Imam does not attend, the Judge will when considering who is the real plaintiff will certainly raise an eyebrow

I hope this lawsuit will be settled in the next few weeks

* United Arab Emirates

The judge may have.
On September 29th, 2010 alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

So in that case it is even better because Hazar Imam does not have to be bothered at all.
Eventually court will decide that the case is not initiated by Hazar Imam ! Superb!
I would like that.
thanks for the reply

* United States

Alibhai jiwani
On September 27th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Indeed a very appropriate Ginan; is it by Pir Sadardin? Similar to this auspice, I came across a Farman of MSMS some years back, which is as under( not exact words).
‘Those of you who are wise and firm in their faith will see that your Deen(Tariqa) will gradually shine like a Sun.’
At present I don’t have the reference to this Farman, but once I find out the year and the place when this Farman was made, I will give that reference.
Here are some more Farmans about the Lovers of Ali by MSMS.

“A Momin and Murshid( Imam-e-Zaman) are never separate……Your home is in our heart and our home is in your hear.” (Jangbar 18-8-1905)
“If you love us one time, we love you hundred times more.”( Jangbar 2-9-1899)
“Your Deen( Tariqa) did not begin from books, but from Love”( Ishq-e-Haqiqi)( Jangbar 29-6-1899)

@Kassamali
On September 27th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Thanks for sharing extracts from Farmans made by our Beloved Sultan Mohamed Shah. Thank you.

* Canada

@Kasamali regarding Ginan Uttar Khand Mahe
On September 27th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Yes this ginan is indeed by Pir Saderdeen
final verse is beautiful aswell

eji bhanne peer sadardeen sunno gateeyu moman no,
shaah su raakho het haree-aa laa-hojire bhaai re.............15

O momins: Peer Sadardeen teaches: "Hear you momins of the congregation (jamaat),
maintain the freshness of the love and devotion for the Lord always O dear brother.

* United States

Role of M Parkes in the letter of 24 Jan 2010 to Nagib?
On September 27th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

My reply to the editor of Vancouveritte regarding the role and involvement of M Parkes in the letter of 24 January 2010 to Nagib Tajdin

There is no question that Nagib is saying that M Parkes was involved in the letter of 24 January 2010. She was. However regarding accusations of criminality, the only sentence which Mr Gray as the best lawyer in the business decided in which Nagib was making any accusation of criminality in Nagib’s letter to M Parkes “…I do not know whether you will exercise rights under Article 450-2 of the French penal code “ Nagib then respectfully goes on to invite M Parkes to explain. “but if this is the case I am willing to listen to your explanations.” (Nagib is inviting an explanation)

Nagib in the cross examination says he was only informing and warning her about the law. Nagib also confirms he sent a copy of that email to 3 others who he will not name because of potential threats and Nagib say no to the question if he knew they will distribute the email to others.

Mr Gray chose NOT to peruse this further with Nagib including the letter from M Parkes dated 28 Jan 2010. Editor suggests that Mr Gray was trying to get facts for a legal libel case by M Parkes. If that was his intention and there was anything more in the letter of Nagib which libelous, Mr Gray would have certainly pursued this further. I can think of a few specific questions he could have asked on this but then who am I to say as he is the best of the best.

It may well be that the role and involvement of M Parkes in the alleged forgery was totally innocent and that she was just doing her work and following instruction as was traditional and normal practice for her to do. Therefore she had no reason to and she did not suspect anything was unusual until Nagib informed her on 15 Feb 2010.

For example if she was normally receiving the draft letters not directly from the imam, and giving the drafts to and receiving them back from Dr Sachedina, then she was will have not been aware of any wrongdoing. The 64 million dollar question is when she knew did she personally inform the Imam of the evidence of forgery or did she report it only to Dr Sachedina and or someone else there.

Therefore the above raises more questions than give answers regarding M Parkes role and involvement in that letter. For example:

1 Did M Parkes type that letter. The bottom of the letter, and the related emails including of 28 Jan 2010 indicates she typed and or had a major involvement in the typing and sending of that letter.

2 Was that letter dictated to her by the Imam or by Dr Sachedina or someone else. If by the Imam Mr Gray could have filed a short affidavit from M Parkes which would also confirm that the Imam is the plaintiff as she will have typed & received letters to and from the lawyers

3 After typing did M Parkes give the draft typed letter back to Dr Sachedina or the Imam

4 Who gave the amended or approved draft back to M Parkes with any directions for corrections/changes

5 Who typed the final draft and who was it handed to. Remember there are other staff

6 Who handed the final approved signed document to M Parkes and did she personally then send the email.

7 Was anyone else involved besides the Imam Dr Sachedina for example Mr Manji at this stage.

8 During this drafting and sending and after until 15 Feb 2010, did M Parkes felt or suspect anything wrong or unusual ?

Therefore and to the above extent I agree to disagree with the Editor and his interpretation of the facts and the emphasis or related conclusions drawn by him.

An unrelated matter of legal interest in this case in which Imam’s entitlement to copyright is not being defended by the defendants. If someone gives guidance in a letter or speech which is then written and distributed by the individual to a group of individuals, who then go on to redistribute them amongst themselves and one or more take a lead in doing so without seeking consent from the individual who has already distributed them. Then do moral rights and or a breach of confidence can be successfully claimed and apples to that guidance or instructions or directives. Especially as this guidance is given and meant for those who have received them in the first place. Another legal issue, may be could set a legal precedent, which may come up in the legal arguments, not possibly in this lawsuit. If so the critical issue in that argument will be the precise definitions of farmans and talikas.

* United Kingdom

REPLY TO MR.BLOGLAW - RE: MS. YASMIN
On September 27th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Bloglaw September 22, 2010 - 3:29 PM - (VANCOUVERITE)

Thank you Mr. Shivji.

I am sorry I have not lived up to your expectation. You have in my view wrongly concluded I have been misguided to accept what I feel is right and that I am emotional and judgmental.
With respect we can say the same about you and everyone who is commenting and giving THEIR views as they see them. This is what you and me are doing too when sharing our thoughts.
Like parents as you put it do with children, you need to do the same for me and others and give specific and reasoned Reponses and advice/suggestions.

I also think you should explain specifically why you have concluded Yasmin is a fascist i.e. a person who is dictatorial or has extreme right-wing views. How did you come to that conclusion? Are you now not being judgmental, emotional and or saying what you fell is right and may be misguided. Maybe you owe an apology to your sister, Ms Yasmin.

REPLY IN VANCOUVERITE

YAM, MR. BLOGLAWS! Foremost, I am not a social worker and I am not an academic. I do not have any expertise in counselling others. We all are grown up people with minds of our own! Therefore, it is polite to say that we should be respectable to others.

However, when we express our thoughts and comments in high profile websites, we should detach from our sentiments, bitterness, and any kind of animosity. It does not make us small to face humbleness!

Regarding MS YASMIN, I will very kindly suggest to your good self to read very minutely all her thoughts and comments in ISMAILI.NET. Ms Yasmin has moved away from the formality of communication. Thus, giving the impressions to her readers that she is very righteous, and has a sense of right and wrong. I am not judging her and it is not my intention to rebuke her.

It is worrying to note that you have become the spokespersons for all contributors to the Ismaili.Net, including the said website. However, it is your prerogative!

When similar issue occurs, I always present my thoughts and comments in VANCOUVERITE as well as in ISMAILI.NET. Sometime Ismaili.Net is kind enough to post my comments; sometime this website will censor my comments and post whatever is suitable to the Ismaili.Net. Sometime the Ismaili.Net will ignore my comments. This in turn deduces the goodwill to this website!

Mr. Bloglaw! You are academic! You should weigh pros and cons of any issue. Just to utter something out of resentment does not simplify the problem in hand, and say something on behalf of somebody without any examination does not resolve the problem! Please do not interpret this as a tell off to you! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

There are 4 Groups on this forum as I see it....
On September 26th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

There seems to be four groups of people at present
on this particular forum.

Group1. Who hates the Leaders in general.
They just hate our Institutions & our Leaders. They
seem to lack valid reasons and most of their hatred
is built on hearing others about how bad the Leaders
and the Institutions are.

Group2. The one that supports the Defendents, and thinks
that the case is Dr. S vs Defendents.
They do not seem to be bothered to read what the Defedents
have to say. They have just joined the bandwagon of Dr. S.
haters.
They act as if they are the brains of the World and therefore
challange the wisdom of our Imam and his judgement
and his silence.
In fact they are making fools of themselves, because the
case can only be fairly heard in the Court (unless both
parties agree to setlle it out of court), taking in account
everything.

Group3. The group that is interested only in idle GOSSIP, which is the
most dangerous and write things that are completely irrelvant to this
issue. They do not care how much damage it brings to Mowla or
to the Defendents. They are just gloaters.
They just gossip along as if they are at the Hairdresser's.

The fourth Group is the serious ones, and they may soon
withdraw from contributing to this forum.
The reasons?
Well, Work it out.

SOME PEOPLE SPEAK BECAUSE THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY.
SOME PEOPLE SPEAK BECAUSE THEY MUST SAY SOMETHING.
See the difference?

I am sure some others have a different view. I respect that.

May Mowla Bless US ALL (this includes me too), and bestow
us with patience and tolerance and kindness towards
eachother.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Groups
On September 27th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Your responses are not supported by farmans Ginans or our traditions. And so it is difficult to take anyone seriously when they give their opinions without being supported by Farmans, etc.

Eg you day four groups but left out one important segment of those who can be called chamchas, those who sipport currupt leaders because he/she is part of them or wants to be appointed or does not want to be blacklisted in the fear that they will not be appointed otherwise. It seems to me that you are a member of this group.

This is a big group

* Canada

Last warning, I will be
On September 27th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Last warning, I will be deleting all postings that are personal attacks. Stick to the subject else please do not complaint that our post got deleted.

To both Umed-Moderators and Concerned......
On September 27th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Brothers/Sisters,

Ya Ali Madad.

I than Umed for being fair and the same time I with all respect to "Concerned"
would like to include the category he/she has mentioned.

I hope that then, the list is complete.

Let us all hope that we will all learn from what has been said
earlier, and I am definitley for ABSTENTION when personal
attacks are concerned.

We are all Murids of Mowla and, as such, should treat
eachother as Momin brothers and sisters.

I also understand that at times we (all) get sentimental, and
get heated up on trivial matters. We only realise that
later on when we are cooled off.
In that case, it is just to say "sorry".

If I have hurt anybody's feelings on this forum
then I apologise and say "SORRY" from the bottom
of my heart. I hope that I will be forgiven.

and

I stand for every word I have written, and take
full responsibility for that.

So, brothers and sisters, until next time....
hopefully.

Finally, My GRATITUDE to the Umed/Moderators and the
participants for bearing with me.

May Mowla Bless You All. I will always have you all in
my prayers, and I hope that I will be in yours.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Attacks...
On September 27th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Please have patience, no personal attacks are meant but a dose of reality.

* Canada

The third option is:
On September 25th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

@ librarian Umed posted on 25th sept
Court might order attorney Gray to get confimation for the court itself regarding the real plaintiff.
This could very well be an outcome of the case management conference?
Hazar Imam is going to be in Toronto on 15th oct for the 10TH ANNUAL LAFONTAINE-BALDWIN SYMPOSIUM lecture.
Something may happen during that time?

* United States

Nothing will happen on 15
On September 26th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Nothing will happen on 15 October probably because Mr Gray will not arrange any meeting nor is he keen in bringing this lawsuit to an end for reasons easy to understand.

Hazar Imam came to london
On September 25th, 2010 Interested (not verified) says:

Hazar Imam came to london recently and spoke to all the LIF Presidents and ITREB Chairs etc in a joint session.

They were all in London together for over a week and will have discussed, shared, reviewed & brain stormed key issues, goals, startegies and interventions. Maybe an update on the lawsuit was on the aganda.

I wonder if someone can share a summary of, Imam's latest guidance on this occasion and the key outcomes of the leadership.

* United Arab Emirates

Teleconference
On September 25th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

Who participated in this conference? Does court records audio recording of this? Will it be available for public viewing?

The docket says the names
On September 25th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The docket says the names [see a little below] I am sure the Court record the discussions but probably a summary is then drawn and the Order from the Case Management Judge will be issued and render public. That is my understanding but I am not a lawyer. From what I see in the docket, the order has not yet been issued.

Unfounded Fear
On September 25th, 2010 An ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

Someone expressed concern regarding discussion of the case material in this forum. He feared that this material will be used by our enemy. This fear is ill founded; and I respectfully disagree with it. What is discussed here (at Heritage site) by viewers is the case material and yes, role of persons connected with case materials, but no one used any uncivilized language nor events related to personal lives of these persons are even cursorily mentioned.
Besides this, In this forum, I have never come across any heated and wordy arguments. And no one ever, ever mentioned about Hazar Imam’s reputation let alone disrespect. On the other hand, I have observed much love for Imam of the Time in this forum. Almost in every participant I could sensed it.
In my humble opinion, the language used by the viewers in this forum is not unhealthy anyway, and hence, civilized discussion within moral boundary would not be any harmful. Healthy discussion should not be discouraged. These are my personal observations and views, and everyone has the right to differ from it.

@ Orinary Murid
On September 26th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

I am in tune with you. Almost vast number of participants here are lovers of Ali ( Imam-e-Zaman) who have tendency not to hurt anybody.
Here are some of the Farmans of MSMS related to lovers of Ali.

1. There is nothing more important than you love your Hazar Imam. Remain ecstatic in Love of Maula. ( Dar-e-Salam, 15-2-1937)
2. Religion is a matter of Love (Ishq-e-Haqiqi) ( Mumbai 3-2-1926)
3. "The most important thing is, keep your Iman strong on Ali (Imam of the time), much more than your mother, father, property and life. You will not fear in this world, if you love him…. In this Farman,all the essence and secrets of Ibadat,Bandagi, and religion are covered"(Dar-e-Salam, 3-2-1937)

@Kasamali
On September 26th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Thanks for these valuable pearls.
I came across this very meaning ful Ginan especially with seat of Imamat being established in NorthAmerica
Ottawa)
eji utar kha(n)dd maa(n)he shaah nee jot jaagevaa,
shaah naa purakh meele parketaa ho jirebhaai..................1

O momins: When the Lord's light shines in the north continent,
then complete recognition(and understanding) of the Lord is
attained O dear brother

eji jaago jaagore gur maarag chalannaa,
tame saachaa ne sachaa yaaraa ho jire bhaai...................4

O momins: Wake up, wake up (from the sleep of ignorance) and walk along
the Guide's path. Be a true friend to the True (Guide) O dear brother.

eji unnee-aachaaree kal maa(n)he ochheru chaale,
saaheb te paapee ne parharee-aa hojire bhaaire................5

O momins: The lowly (sinful) ones walk in this age imperfectly (in ignorance and sin).
The Lord will punish all such sinners O dear brother.

* United States

@An Ordinary Murid
On September 25th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Very well said. Thank You.

* Canada

CMC
On September 22nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

From Docket:

Oral directions received from the Court: Mireille Tabib, Prothonotary dated 21-SEP-2010 directing that "A case management telephone conference will take place at 10:00 a.m. on 23-SEP-2010." Parties advised by e-mail. placed on file on 21-SEP-2010

24th September, in Docket:

Ottawa 23-SEP-2010 BEFORE Mireille Tabib, Prothonotary Language: E Before the Court: Case Management Conference Result of Hearing: Order to issue held in chambers by way of Conference Call Duration per day: 23-SEP-2010 from 10:00 to 11:35 Courtroom : Judge's Chambers - Ottawa Court Registrar: Alison Dickenson Total Duration: 1 hour 35 minutes

CMC
On September 22nd, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

What happens, does the judge tomorrow make decision, will we know the result of the case tomorrow? I hope so to get closure.

* Canada

No, it is a Case Management
On September 24th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

No, it is a Case Management Conference, not a Motion or a trial so there will not be any judgement. There will be an order on the dates of events to come. A Case management Judge will always look for the most expeditious and most just way of resolving the case.

Cross Transcripts of Alnaz/Nagib
On September 22nd, 2010 yasina (not verified) says:

I have read the cross exam transcipts of Anaz & Nagib by Plaintiffs Lawyer.

Can you post them for us.

* Canada

Nagib's cross
On September 24th, 2010 shirin (not verified) says:

where are the full transcripts of Nagibs cross and the e-mail where you accuse Ms parkes of Forgery ??

* Canada

They are posted
On September 23rd, 2010 heritage says:

They are posted here:

http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/node/30355

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

@Rabya
On September 22nd, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Diwan Eboo Pirbhai was a great leader. As we all know he took care of Our Beloved Hazar Imam and Prince Amyn Mohamed during their childhood in Nairobi. I would like to share with you couple of events that took place.

Diwan Eboo Pirbhai had a chauffeur-driven car. Many times I had seen that he would not sit in the back seat, but in the front seat, next to the chauffeur. One day, I was walking along Kimathi Street, Nairobi, Diwan Eboo Pirbhai passed by in his car and waved at me, and asked his chauffeur to pull the car on the side. He asked me "Beta how are you? How are your parents? Is everything OK with you? Mowla will take care of you." I felt so touched with his humility.

It was Kenya's Annual Independence Day Celebrations. I was there to witness the occasion. Hazar Imam was in the front row with President Moi and other dignitaries. When it was over, President Moi, dignitaries and Hazar Imam were leaving. Hazar Imam stood on the side, Diwan Eboo Pirbhai came. There were stairs, so Hazar Imam helped Diwan Eboo Pirbhai, His eyes on the stairs, so that Diwan Eboo Pirbhai would not miss the step. At that moment I thought to myself, look at Hazar Imam who is so compassionate towards His Murid.

At the funeral of Diwan Eboo Pirbhai, which I attended was held at the Pavillion Hall, Aga Khan Sports Ground, Nairobi, President Moi and other dignitaries had attended the ceremony. Diwan Eboo Pirbhai's body was laid on the "saadhri" (no casket) on the ground, very simple ceremony according to our Islamic Tradition. I am sure non-muslims must have observed the simplicity of our Faith. He was buried at the old Ismaili Cemetery across the new cemetery, in Nairobi.

Diwan Eboo Pirbhai was a "Great and Humble" leader, and is also being remembered today. He was loved by Our Beloved Hazar Imam and the Noorani Family. Thank You.

* Canada

Re: above post of Yasmin
On September 24th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you ever so much for sharing these memories with us, Yasmin.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Diwan Sir Eboo
On September 22nd, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Yasmin,

Ya Ali Madad.

Thank you for sharing with us your experiences with regard to Diwan Sir Eboo.

Indeed he was a great man and will be and is missed by many.

I met him at Paris (Silver Jubilee 1983) briefly. Very humble and compassionate
person he was. No doubt about that.

After that he got in touch with me on an issue I was very unhappy about, and asked
me to forgive those who had wronged me and keep my cool. He could have scolded
the others and flared the the situation by thus fuelling it. No, he did not do that.

Instead he asked me (through his secretary - because he was not well that day)
to calm down. And I did, after giving him my reasons for getting upset.

At that time I felt that may be he was wrong, but long time after that I realised that
he acted extremely prudently. He (I suppose) knew that the others were stubborn
hot-heads and maybe he knew that they would not budge, but in me (I assume)
may be he found a reasonable person who would back off and calm down.
Therefore, he asked me to yield and calm down. And I did, although still upset.

Now, what strikes me is that he must have had enormous ability to judge people
and their character in a very short time.

At that time we sent letters by post and fax. Telephone conversations were
a luxury.

I wonder if there is a Leader in our community who can match Sir Eboo's wisdom
and power to reason and put the foot down when necessary and his humility &
unconditional loyalty to our beloved Hazar Imam.

I had great respect for Dr. S. But, I am beginning to wonder.

May Molwa Bless Sir Eboo's Soul for eternal peace.
We're all Mowla's beloved murids.

Best Wishes,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Great respect evaporating...,
On September 24th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

You wrote; I had great respect for Dr. S. But, I am beginning to wonder.

Gees you are wondering!!!!!!! What is to wonder. My imam' enemy has to be my enemy isn't it? Can there be any doubt about it, when he directly insults the Imam, when he directly and "purposively" REJECTS our imam's farmans: MHI said Ginans are unique and other farmans on the importance of Ginans; he also made a Farman on following his grandfather's farmans are two examples.

Them he says to disregard MHI's farmans made personally by him..... MSMS said Yezid cut imam's badan (body), you are cutting my imamate, . This is a written Farman of MSMS.

* Canada

Gees you are wondering!!!!!!! What is to wonder.
On September 24th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear "Concerned",

Hmmmmmmmm....

Neither you nor do I, for sure know, if Dr. S is our beloved Hazar Imam's enemy.

You have made a very strong judgement/accusation (i.e. that he is the Imam's enemy)
that I really wonde about too.

Only Mowla is the judge, and I am sure that he will act as and when he sees fit.
I trust my Imam. I have also read Hazrat Sultan Mahomed Shah's firmans
(May his Soul Rest in Peace).
(Please note that Mowlana Sultan Mahomed Shah is spellt with an a following
M).

In Poona, a Kamadia complained to Mowlana Sultan Mahomed Shah (May
His Soul Rest in Peace) that he had heard that the Hindu accountant Mowla
employed was stealing cash on daily basis. Mowla did not say anything.
The Kamadiasaheb kept on repeating this on several occassions and Mowla
did not reply.

One day, when the Kamadiasaheb and Mowla were alone and the Kamadia-
saheb mentioned it, Mowla became very angry and replied, "Tuum Gaddha
hey. Me tumaara Imaam hey aur Tumko lagta hey Ke mujko ney patta hey?
Tuum bilkuul gadha hey. Aaajsey ye baat kabhi ney karna".

The Kamadia saheb did not know what to do. And he was also very upset
because he was sure that the man was stealing.

Afterwards, Mowla explained to Kamadiasaheb that since the thief knew
that everybody knew, he stole an insignificant sum, and then he
told the Kamadiasaheb that if he put a Murid in his place and if the
Murid stole, then how would he be able to stop him. The Murid would
say it is his father's money.
LOL

Now, I heard the above about 45 years ago... from my elders....
It may have been a joke or the truth....
But, do you get it???????? LOL.

So, if Mowla is not doing anything about it, then let us wait and
see. Mowla (I am sure knows). So, take it easy and pray even for
Dr. S. As far as we are concerned, he is still a devoted Murid
until Mowla makes a statement otherwise.
If Mowla wants me to act, I will not think twice ...
I am sure Mowla will never make me carry a burden
greater than I can bear.

I hope that you will understand my explanation, but you do not have
to accept it, I hope you will.
But, I will stick to my Moral Values and faith in Mowla as they are.

May Mowla Bless You, my friend. Hey, and all others too.

Best Wishes,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Devoted murid!!!
On September 26th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

You said: Dr. S. As far as we are concerned, he is still a devoted Murid
until Mowla makes a statement otherwise.

Wow - it betrays your lack of understanding of what imam is. Have you heard or read MSMS's farmans? I think not other then in passing.

MSMS said that during Mawlana Hussein's there was one Yezid, today there are 'anek' (numerous, many) and there are here present in my presence. He made many farmans of how to id such people, bur he never pointed to our identified anyone as Yezid, but his farmans clearly indicate what to look for and urged us to remain away from those people.

You say you will follow your imam, good luck.

It sometimes amazes me (and also distresses me to see how many claim to be ismailis) when I read some posts posted here or particularly in the other site yet seem to be completely ignorant of what it is being an Ismaili.

Don't, please don't expect our imams to say such and such are the likes of Yezid. There are so many farmans of our imams saying to read our history. Without doing so people have no idea what and how imam's act, and that is why you made the above noted comment.

My brother, that ain't gonna happen. Keep waiting.......
Be

* Canada

........distresses me to see how many claim to be Ismailis
On September 26th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Brother/Sister "Concerned",

I think that you were warned by "Umed" earlier that you have got
personal. I feel that now you have stepped over the line and
I am humbly obliged to give it back to you in kind, though
hesitantly.
I really hope that "Umed-The Moderator" will allow this.

Well, go ahead. It is a business between you and Dr. S.
Dr. S. is not my relative, but to me (now that you have shown
your true self by sinking lower and lower) he is a better Ismaili
than you are.
That is my humble opinion.
But, ultimately it is Mowla who decides.
Therefore, I may abstain from commenting on what you
and your supporters have to say.

I am going to post a separate post - which I hope that the
moderators will allow to explain about the categories that
I feel, are on this forum.

I have no more to say. I am in open and and am not
using any pseudonym. I have nothing to hide.
I am a humble Murid of Mowla and neither you or your
supporters can take it away (thank Mowla) from me.
I will defend myself, should you and your supporters
decide to attack me in any way.

It is the likes of you that fuel gossip and heresay and cause
distress to Our Imam and his true Murids. I hope you will
shape up.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Supporters
On September 27th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

What supporters are you talking about. I write on my own behalf and my own thoughts, why would you respond by saying my supporters!!!!

If you can't determine this simple matter how can you analyze difficult and complicated issues.

* Canada

Alaudin Alibhai's above post
On September 25th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Brother Alaudin, is it not customary for true Ismailis to offer a salwaat, or at the very least (a.s.) after the name of an Imam, rather than the formula you have used in brackets every time you used the name of the 48th Imam in your post????
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Lets not get into personal
On September 26th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Lets not get into personal attacks

Re: above post of librarian-umed
On September 28th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
My sincere apologies if I have gone against the rules of this forum. I did not think I was breaking any rules, my question was just an honest question stemming from astonishment.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Is it not customary for true Ismailis to offer a salwaat
On September 26th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Only Mowla decides if I am a true Ismaili or not.

We wil all be judged on the day of judgement. Even the sefl-appointed
champions in this forum.

Otherwise, I agree with you. But, equally, they can also be omitted
from what I understand depending the media.
It is customary, not compulsary either - from what I understand.
It depends also on what forum you mention our Holy Imams
The Pirs and The Holy Prophet.

But, I do agree with you in principle.

However, I humbly thank you for drawing my attention to it.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Re: Alaudin Alibhai's above post
On September 28th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for not minding my question, brother Alaudin. I am most happy that we both agree in principle.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

I thank you, Brother
On September 28th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Abdullasaheb,

Ya Ali Madad.

It is only right thing for me to do, i.e. to Thank you, for
pointing out my shortcoming on the matter.

I was very glad that you accepted my explanation with
grace, and did not hit back rudely like many on this
forum do. The think that they are the only ones that
have the monopoly of being right. They consider
themselves above even Hazar Imam and predict
frequently why Mowla is doing this or not doing that
and speculate wildly, and desperately twist everything
selectively to justify their stories regardless of whether
they are right or wrong.
Expecting us to believe blindly everything they write
here to be GOD's truth..

If we beg to differ, they declare us outright enemies.
I am glad that you are different, Sir.

It is always a pleasure to deal with a calm and sensible
person like you, Sir. You seem to be a person of great
integrity and you surely deserve to be saluted.

May Mowla Bless You and the Moderators here for
their patience and hard work & bearing with me.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Imam's enemy
On September 24th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

I beg to differ. I'd rather rely on my imam's defination of his enemy. He EXPECTS us to be able to ID who are his friends and who are his enemies, no question about that. Remember Allah told Noah that his own son who shunned truth is not to be considered 'family' and similar things have been said by Imams, eg. Krishna telling Arjun.

Mawla said that those who stop you from READING (note, not hear as in JK) my farmans are my enemies. See kalame imame mubeen (of course Shafik says, if you follow him over the imam) that those farmans are no longer valid.

I'd rather follow my imam and not others. You can consider the likes of Yezid friend, I consider them foes and that is because our imam has said use intellect. He has directly insulted the imam by contradicting and challenging the imam's Farman. You can continue to call such a person devoted but Mawla does not. I think I read somewhere that Mawla said those who don't follow my guidance lose the right to be part of the jamat. Ameen. I will nor consider anyone who challenges and refuses to follow the imam and Shafik has said s lot worse.

Some of your comments are good, some suspect, but each for his own. Each uses his intellect but many enemies of the imam have caused damage to the jamat when the jamat considered such enemies devoted.

So be it.

* Canada

Some of your comments are good, some suspect .....
On September 26th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Brother/Sister "Concerned",

You are entitled to differ.

You are totally out of order when you say that I may(can) consider Likes of Yezid
as friends. You slander me by that and I really challenge you as far as my
loyalty to My Imam is concerned. So, I beg you to contain yourself
before throwing such accusations by coming up with unfounded
allegations.

I agree that you are very angry with Dr.S., for many
reasons. But, also consider this:
"He was very (according to some) nervous when he gave the affidavit...
this may have caused him to fumble and given answers in a way
that they could be interpreted by "a layman like you and I" in
many different ways (and some ways) to incriminate him".

Moreover, "Have you yourself heard Dr. S. saying negative things
about Mowla? Or, is it so that you have also heard rumours like
I have. That Dr. S. is arrogant doesn't not make him a criminal.
I totally agree that he is arrogant, out of experience".
But, I do not believe, for now until Mowla has said it or made it
known in any other way, that Dr. S. is an enemy of our beloved
Hazar Imam.
Until Mowla makes a statement on what he is, I am staying
put. So please do not say that I call the likes of Yezid
friends. It is not fair and it is an outright insult. I have
not insulted you and I do not deserve to be insulted
by you or anyone on this forum or elsewhere.
You are totally out of order, Sir.

I do not believe that there is anything "suspect" in what I
have written so far.
"Please let me know what is suspicious (or suspect for that
matter in what I write) and I shall try to address it. I promise".
Spell it out.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Dr S. was nervous?(as per Mr Alaudin)
On September 27th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

If Hazar Imam is indeed the real plaintiff and Dr Sachedina was giving affidavit in favor of Hazar Imam he was in the most privileged and confident position . Lord is on your side! What do you have to worry or lose? And also you have the entire team of lawyers , best of best that money can buy , What do you have to be nervous about ?
On the other hand Nagib , is a real momin he had no lawyer and he is a defendant against presumably Hazar Imam Who is the Lord of both the worlds as per our belief. He had every reason to be nervous or panicky and he was not. Instead he was so confident, straightforward and unhesitant in his answers (May be he believed Mawla is sitting next to him in Lawyer's chair I think)
I wonder why such a radical difference otherwise?
Does this explain the fumbling ?

* United States

Why nervous...
On September 27th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Excellent, well said. Nagib not even being a lawyer did a fantastic job and your saying that he believed MHI sitting with him is really touching, you have such a wonderful sense of spirituality.

And Dt.'s answers seem to suggest he is completely cut off from MHI, his answers actually proved this point which was my first ptession,

I wish we could see their videos of the session.

* Canada

Not angry
On September 26th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Whether I heard Dr. say it personally or not is not the issue, if I am not mistaken Dr.'s words were transcribed as he said it and I have not heard him or his lawyer anywhere (eg. in any letter sent to the court) say that the transcripts posted on this site are wrong.

Wow!! You seem to say that I am angry with Dr. I am not. You seem to say that Dr. was nervous, but being nervous is the reason he said what he did.

I doubt that whenever you are nervous or stressed you will insult your mum such as say she is a pro, etc. Nor do people do that.

You are, in my humble opinion, not correct. Our imams and pirs have told us to make friends of momins (deen daar) and we are told to keep away from satanic people.

What people do and say is important. Say I don't say my dua, don't attend JK, don't pay dasond, and smoke and drink openly and influence your children and tell them now and then these are irrelevant things. IF you are Imani, truly Imani you would keep your children away from me, would you not.

Will you agree that our imam would want you to keep away and keep your children away from such an individual, even if that person was your brother?

Now reading your post, I can't help but come to conclusions that many people don't use their intellect in religious matter even while paying lip service to that phrase I am an Ismaili and a momin.

I repeat - those who cannot truly understand the gravity of what Dr.'s words means don't know anything of their religion and particularly know nothing of what our Ginans preach and what our MSMS has said in his farmans.

Reading posts always displays a persons knowledge and depth of iman, or lack of it.

Do you know that Abu Bakr was very very close to the prophet, very close. The prophet during his last few weeks of illness held his arms whole walking to the mosque, and while saying the Namaz, and when he could not continue the Namaz, Abu Bakr completed it for the prophet. Many people saw this as proof of Abu Bakr''s being special and held his hands Ignoring the Farman re: Hazrat Aly.

MSMS has said, don't see what "I do" but do what I tell you to do. Those well meaning people followed Abu Bakr and left Aly.

So dear brothers and sisters it is time we decide - whom to back!! the lovers of our imam!!!!!! And our words and action speaks volumes. I was truly influenced by reading the transcripts and before that I was wondering if these two defendants were even Ismailis and now after reading the transcripts I now have decided to reject those who insult the imam and what stands for.

Thank you, but no thanks. I urge those who wish to become more knowledgeable to read MSMS's farmans.

* Canada

Leadeship
On September 22nd, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Although Sir Eboo asked you to calm down, in my humble opinion that is a wrong way to deal with leaders who do wrong. In Toronto I was asked to set up JK for leaders meeting after JK. I was present along with other vols and a tape was played to the leaders.

I heard MHI use the words, "chuck them out" referring to those who don't act in the jamat's interests. I tried to get a copy of the tape was refused.

I have read other Talikas sent by MHI where he has said to remove those who don't act properly and to delegate duties to avoid volunteer burn downs....

Current leaders mostly do not know of guidance by MHI, and who cares is the attitude shown by most.

* Canada

Concerned's above post
On September 25th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Dear brother Concerned,
Your above post is so interesting! Thank you for sharing it with us.
Would you by any chance remember in what year you had heard those words of Hazer Imam, and whether those words had been spoken by Him in that year that you heard the tape?
Forgive me for imposing on you in this way. I am looking forward to your reply.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Tape
On September 26th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

I think this was around 1984??? Give take two years... I heard the words 'chuck them out' ...after Silver Jubilee but before 1987.... The tape was sent along with other guidance for leaders. In Dubai in 2003, MHI said in Farmsn that knowledge has been lost some purposely, including Farmans..... What dud he mean and who loses the guidance purposely?????

* Canada

Re: above post of Concerned
On September 29th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thanks a million, brother Concerned, for replying to my question and giving me the above information: I am most grateful to you. Mowla tamnè sukhi raakhè, ameen.
I really enjoy reading your posts, you are always to the point and you always speak your mind. I adored the one that starts with "Geeees!...." Thank you for your inputs. I am looking forward to reading more of your posts.
Ya Aly madad.

P.S. Re: reading Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah's faramin: I don't think many would read them, firstly because I am not sure that they are still available, secondly, so few of the young and middle aged Ismailis can read Gujarati...

* Canada

CORRECTION....Way to deal with leaders who do wrong
On September 24th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad.

I wrote:

I thank you for your comment and do understand fully what you mean.
I, even today, feel that I got the short end of the stick and....

Kindly read:
I thank you for your comment and do understand fully what you mean.
I, even today, feel that I WAS at the RECEIVING end of the stick
DURING THAT PERIOD all along and...........................

My apologies for the error, earlier.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Concerned's above post
On September 24th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
THANK YOU so much for sharing this with us, Concerned. I really appreciate.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Concerned
On September 23rd, 2010 Nick (not verified) says:

Mowla Knows the Best and when he say's; " Chuk Them Out" it means he is really concerned about the Leadership who are not working in the interest of Jamat.

My answer to, "Way to deal with leaders who do wrong..."
On September 23rd, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear (Concerned) Sir/Madam,

Ya Ali Madad.

I thank you for your comment and do understand fully what you mean.
I, even today, feel that I got the short end of the stick and I accepted
it partly out of respect for then Divansaheb and also I knew that
those I was facing were very powerful bunch while I did not
have the resources they had (in every sense) to pursue
the matter. They lied too. Liars are very dangerous.
More dangerous than a hungry LION about to
attack you.
Their retaliation would have done me much more and
even long lasting damage than it has so far.
I have learnt to live with it, but it does nag
me now and again.

With all due respect to what you say, I promise you
that I am totally convinced that both Divansaheb, Sir
Eboo and I acted as we shoud have.
As I said, I did have chance to have my say, and also
I was no more forced to make an apology to someone
who (in fact was at fault and) had the audacity to
demand it.
So, I got out of the row with my own dignity intact, and
a lot wiser - never to trust anyone of those (and the
likes of those again).
Since then I have made many more mistakes
and trusted many in te name of our beloved
Hazar Imam and have been betrayed
again and again....
Well, that's life of an Ismaili in a nutshell. Isn't it?
And now i am OLD, and hopefully wiser.
There is no fool like an OLD FOOL, as they say.

We are a small people.
What can we really do against powerful Leaders?
Moreover, it is indeed their strength and power that
make things happen and service to Mowla and
the Jamaat is done.
If on the way they make mistakes, well then,
we must try to forgive them and also see the
good they are doing for the community and
Mowla.
Of course, I do feel that I personally could have done
better than many of them and the impact would have
been more fruitful for the community at large where
I was at that time. But, it is past, and what one must
do from history is to learn from it and not repeat the
bad that happened in the past.

I don't want to hang out our dirty Laundry
with specifics etc... out for the World to gloat at.

We must be able to reason by way of verbal
communications, negotiate and solve
problems amicably without using violence.
That is very important.
That is what we human beings are all about. We, as
Mowla says, have to use our AKKAL to see wrong from
right. But, on our journey, we are bound to make many
mistakes (I have made many), so we are all in the same
boat. I hope that when my time comes, then my soul
will go to a better place and will be one with the NOOR.
Don't we all strive for that?
Because, my dear friend, this LIFE is some
MERRY-GO-ROUND and a very BUMPY
one, EH!

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Leadership's answerability
On September 24th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Mawla in 1992 repeatedly URGED the jamats to SEEK competence, accountability and answerabilty of our institution leaders. They are powerful but when we become intimidated of them they collectively win and MHI and the jamats lose.

Hazrat Ali said in the eyes of god, the operessor and oppressee are same if the oppressee does not fight back.

Our imams rarely fight and remove bad leaders. One much was terrible, Mawlana Sultan Mohamed told the Kamadia, trouble and annoy (sataao) the mukhi so much that refunds and leaves. In one written document that I have, He said for elder leaders to leave their seats to allow younger jamats to tale over leadership or else they will revolt, then said, those who seek to cling to their positions I pray that they die early. Why i ask he himself did not remove them but said this.

He expects the jamat to fight back. MHI said in one Farman that he knows which members serve when he is not physically present but they do not have courage to PUSH forward to serve when he is physically present. He expects us to push forward, what does that mean?

* Canada

Concerned's above post
On September 25th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for this post too, Concerned (and the corrections :-)! Particularly for Hazrat Aly's quote; it certainly deserves much pondering...I suppose the fighting back should be done in a "fair", "ethical", courteous manner.
Earlier on (when the cross-examination transcripts were posted) I was asking on this page if there was nothing we, the Jamat, could do in this affair...Someone replied to me that we just had to remain calm...I wonder if that is sufficient...
But thanks, Concerned.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Responses
On September 26th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

As you, I was keeping quiet thinking that let them fight the case and we will get the answers. Now I feel more and more so that keeping quiet is wrong when Mawla urged us to seek accountability, so he expects us to do his fight. For him and for the jamat.

One way is by posting comments, I am also asking mukhis and other leaders for answers and am realizing that so many of our leaders including mukhis have similar thoughts of our imam as Dr. has. Truly shocking and depressing.

I heard the defendant Alnaz talking to some people at don mills JK to expect that as many as 2/3 of our jamats will be discarded by our imam just as previous imams have dumped the jamats. It is food for thought. He quoted a Farman of MSMS to support his argument (I missed the Farman as i was at jk for Samar and missed a part of the talk. I only knew afterwards that he was the defendant himself. I was taken aback, but got thinking of his words. I am seeking the Farman he quoted, and said it was a written Farman.

Can anyone post that Farman for all of us to read and interpret it ourselves?

* Canada

Corrections
On September 24th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Oops I often write from iPhone and sometimes it thinks it is smarter than me and corrects words automatically and sometimes I goof.

Sorry for the goofs now and then .....

Third paragraph above should read:

One mukhi was terrible......

... mukhi so much that he resigns ....

* Canada

Quick Settlement of Case.
On September 20th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

There are two ways to settle this case outside the court.
First One:
Mr. Gray, during his cross examination and otherwise, always maintained that he has direct contact with Hazar Imam for the case. Then he should readily accept, without any further delay, the ‘Discovery’ request of defendants made to the court. Here, the officer appointed by the court goes to Paris and personally verifies that, in fact, Hazar Imam has initiated this case; and the matter is over, as defendants have to accept all the demands of the plaintiff.
Second One:
Dr. Sachedina or the LIF chairman or both approach Hazar Imam and request Him to set up a couple of minutes meeting with Nagib. And both the defendants have no other way but to accept all the demands of the plaintiff.

Conclusion: Mr. Gray, obviously to protect his personal financial interest, would not act, and hence, the first option is out.
So only, the second option remains. Let us see if our top leaders take any initiative. Only time will tell.

The third option is that the
On September 25th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The third option is that the Court will [order Mr Gray to arrange this 5 minutes meeting that will save time and resources to all parties. Mr Gray will not be able to arrange any meeting and if he does, the Imam will confirm that the defendants are right. If he does not arrange this meeting or try to escape the order with appeal or any other games, everyone will understand that the Imam is not involved in this lawsuit.

My reply to, "September 20th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified)" -
On September 21st, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Sir,

I am forced to comment.

Mr. Gray will do what Mowla instructs him to do.

Please, wait for the truth that Mowla will soon bestow upon us. Until then, I pray that all the gossipers, speculators and those "Happy to See Mowla's reputation and His Institutions go in tatters" will contain themselves.

Please, I beg you all. Contain yourselves.
You have caused enough damage by speculating and playing judges, and lawyers and knowitalls and also using slander one way or the other etc. Some of you have shown outright disrespect for Mowla. Shape up. Back OFF.
Yes, I feel anger in me (I know it is not right to be angry - but I am now).

Just calm down and wait until the Court has made a judgement and a verdict has been delivered. ONLY MOWLA KNOWS BEST. I am sure Mr. Tajdin and Mr. Jiwa will agree, them being Murids too.

Stop throwing our dirty laundry to the enemies.
When will you understand?

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden.

* Sweden

Interesting but there is not
On September 20th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Interesting, but there is not an iota of evidence so far that Mr Gray has been asked by the Imam to initiate this lawsuit and when the Imam meet the defendant, the Imam Himself will confirm the truth. Mr Gray appears therefore not in a hurry to let the defendants get instructions from the Imam as this will bring the case to an abrupt end.

A conundrum
On September 21st, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

After a lawsuit is filed by Mr Gray or any lawyer and then he sees the defence that his client is not the plaintiff then legally and as a lawyer is he not obliged to take instructions direct from his client ?

And if his client says he did not give instruction to file, then would the lawyer and the client not be obliged to make a disclosure to the court and withdraw the case.

Would this not be the same even if the lawyer had relied on any delegated authority (which is not claimed in this case) ?.

After filing, even if the lawyer had authority or instructions direct from his client to continue. Are not he and his client obliged to make a disclosure and withdraw the case and then either file a fresh new case or seek consent from the court and the defendants to continue?

A legal conundrum ! Can someone explain ?. Whilst the legal arguments maybe interesting.

* United Arab Emirates

We all need to be patient & objective in seeking to understand!
On September 20th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

EDITOR OF VANCOUVERITE TO BLOGLAW “Get real Bloglaw. Get your head checked out. People choke up when they read your postings. The case is over. You know it. Alnaz can’t go to trial holding a bag of crap

“ Follower says , “..nagib claims getting clear guidance from the 1992 mehmani. The interesting thing however, is that his letter on January 4, 2010 to the Imam is seeking guidance about the publication. What was the purpose of RESEEKING guidance if he already had it? “

MY REPLY TO THE EDITOR You seem to be privy to information which I am not when you say that the case is over & I know it.

Nagib’s letter of 4th Jan is not asking for permission for a second time. It says they are seeking guidance on the project and further guidance on other books of farmans of earlier Imams.

If they were seeking permission they would then send a draft of the Book to the Imam and seek permission to publish. Not send the book and the schedule of the project. Mr Bhaloo and Sachedina have agreed they received the draft of the 4th volume in 1998.

Mr Gray must be clear on this. If not then there is no doubt he would have questioned Tajdin specifically and very closely in the cross examination about what Tajdin meant precisely in his letter to the Imam

Regarding the Editor wanting me to check out my head, get real, people are choking up and Alnaz carrying a bag of crap (Editor meant bag with no evidence). I request him to correct me where I am wrong and share the wisdom from his 30 years of knowledge and experience with reasoned facts so that I can understand. I mean this most sincerely

This reminds me of my children asking difficult questions regarding beliefs and initially I was impatient and sometimes raised my voice expecting them to believe and trust me blindly. I soon realised times have changed in the last few decades

- Like me, my children also only ask to learn and to understand using their own intellect. But unlike me, they speak up and remind me that raising my voice or getting angry means I do not know or that I have lost the argument?
- Many times our children of course deliberately test our patience, our boundaries and knowledge on many matters.
- The key I find is being patient in seeking to understand and to share honestly, fairly and objectively.

The Editor of Vancouverite: I hope will agree with me on this. Imam stresses that conflicts today arise from a clash of understanding and ignorance’s which can and must be addressed with more knowledge, tolerance, understanding and most important dialogue. Imam wishes us all the embrace and promote pluralism and ecumenism and make it a part of our daily lives and beings.

* United Kingdom

@Bloglaw
On September 20th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Just wanted to add to my posting that, my advice to you and others who are not comfortable with the site mentioned in your posting is, not to contribute on such sites and have peace. Enjoy the "Great Heritage Site", where you can get some good information and knowledge, and you can also share your views, etc. Stay away from places where there is always turmoils, and also where you cannot get "peace". Life is too short, there is no point in wasting one's energy in such places. Thank you.

* Canada

@Yasmin @Bloglaw
On September 21st, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

Credit must be given to the Editor for posting comments of Bloglaw for everyone to read. Some who read will be leaders. In that sense we must thank both the Editor and Bloglaw.

Many may find some of today's language and expressions used offensive depending on the countries. Get real means I don't agree with you. You need your head examining means I don't agree what you are saying is logical and does not make sense to me. People choke up means people are overwhelmed by emotional. Times have changed ! Look at some of the social media expressions of today.

Therefore I think both Bloglaw and the Editor are in their own way contributing to this unique and unprecedented discussion on issues highlighted in this case.

* United Arab Emirates

@Pirani
On September 21st, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Thanks for your above comments. It's interesting to know that journalism has a "different english vocabulary language". It sounds very "professional". Thank You.

* Canada

@Yasmin @Bloglaw
On September 21st, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

:) To some and it seems to the Editor this case maybe is very personal and or emotional. Therefore in this case his reporting and response language norms may have been the casualty.

* United Arab Emirates

Mr Shivji - Is he unreasonable or what !
On September 22nd, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

How unreasonable is Mr Shiji?

Nizar Ali K. Shivji September 21, 2010 - 12:26 PM

YAM, MR. BLOGLAW and MS YASMIN! It is very easy for you both to point fingers, and use the religious conviction to strike god-fearing persons on they emotion or on they conscience. Apparently, I do not see any kind of “hatred and anger” in thoughts and comments expressed in VANCOUVERITE. Please do not use religion to meet your ends.

We are all human being and we do have our failings. When we are able to recognize sincerely our failings, we can gradually move away from repeating our extreme dislike and antagonism. I disagree with you that the life is short. How did you foresee that? The life is measured by years and it will continue living until its endowed years have expired.

Yasmin! Please do not shelter yourself in your cocoon and express your fascist thoughts and comments from your safe home – the Ismiali.Net. It does not behoove you to forbid and suppress disagreement. Please face the situation and analyze the issue! The truth will prevail!

I am sad to read that your religious belief does not accept the broad spectrum of Islam, but have narrowed down to what you deem to be the truth! The Ismaili Muslims have enjoyed IMAM-MURID relationship, and will continue with this relationship throughout the eternity.

Our prayers, wherever we recite from, are for the humanity and betterment of the mankind. We do not separate out in our prayers. We all want to live in peace and harmony. Allah is gracious and merciful to all! Even if you become judgmental, Allah is all forgiving!

Mr. Bloglaw! You are a scholar, and your intellectual appeared to have been misguided to accept only what you feel is right! Please use your resources to analyze the issue and saddle on reality. This is the only way to have a clear focus on pertaining issue. You have become emotional and judgmental which I did not expect from you!

Please be reminded, some us have enjoyed parenthood and our children‘s questioning is always challenging but the burden is on us to streamline their thoughts and understanding so that they do not repeat the same mistake! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Reply by bloglaw September 22, 2010 - 3:29 PM

Thank you Mr Shivjee.

I am sorry I have not lived up to your expectation. You have in my view wrongly concluded I have been misguided to accept what I feel is right and that I am emotional and judgemental.

With respect we can say the same about you and everyone who is commenting and giving THEIR views as they see them. This is what you and me are doing too when sharing our thoughts.

Like parents as you put it do with children, you need to do the same for me and others and give specific and reasoned reponses and advice or suggestions. (NOT MERELY ACADEMIC GENERALISATIONS)

I also think you should explain specifically why you have concluded Yasmin is a fascist i.e a person who is dictatorial or has extreme right-wing views. How did you come to that conclusion ?. Are you now not being judgemental, emotional and misguided by saying what you fell is right ? Maybe you owe an apology to your sister, Ms Yasmin

* United Arab Emirates

@Pirani
On September 23rd, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Thanks for sharing the above comments. Mr. Bloglaw, thanks for your kind words. Let us pray for the Murids mentioned, May Allah give them peace and happiness, Ameen. Thank You.

* Canada

@Bloglaw
On September 20th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

It's so sad to read that Ismaili brothers including the editor of vancourite using such slander language at another Ismaili brother, there is so much "hatred and anger" which is "unislamic". We all are Murids of our Beloved Hazar Imam, if He reads all this, He would be so sad, so sad. I always believe that there is no point in going to Jamat Khana and pray, when you don't love your spiritual brothers and sisters, because Allah knows your "intentions". As I have mentioned in my previous posting that this is a discussion on the lawsuit and what improvements should be made by the leaders. This is just a discussion, nobody is attacking these leaders personally. These above Murids get carried away. The defendants, you and we all love our Beloved Hazar Imam. No one has a right to judge any one else except Allah. I think we all should pray to Allah for these Murids to have "peace and happiness". Ameen. Thank You.

* Canada

Re: above post of Yasmin
On September 21st, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, Yasmin, it is terribly sad...We Ismailis don't seem to do well when put to test: some of us have shown such little compassion and respect for fellow brothers in faith in this law suit matter...Mowla badhanè haqiqati samaj anè sabar aapè.
Ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

What are the priorities
On September 20th, 2010 Momeen (not verified) says:

I did not know what programs have been initiated regarding the three GJ goals directed by the Imam, especially the poor and the elderly members of our jamat . These are not on the official websites or in announcements? Can anyone share these ? May be these will be in the next LIF announcent soon?

* United Arab Emirates

An Ernest Open Request to LIF Chairman
On September 20th, 2010 Another Ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

Dear Sir:
I am also an ordinary Murid with ordinary intelligence, but I understand and believe that this case has already taken enough toll of Jamat and damaged Jamat’s image outside.
Even within the Jamat, there are people like me who firmly believe words of Dr. Sachedina, Mr. Bhaloo and Mr. Manji. Such people are in majority, but there are still many who doubt our these leaders, and then there are some few who are confused. I have come across many people who are dead against Nagib and Al Naz; they hate them and are using sarcastic and uncivilized language against them and their families.
Sir, the case might go on for one more year and I don’t know where such confusion and hateredness will lead the Jamat to. Only very senior leaders like you can do something about this. You have vast experience and knowledge as ell as easy access to Hazar Imam, and hence I appeal to you; please do something so that this case gets settled outside the court. I don’t know why Dr. Sachedina has not contacted Hazar Imam after case has been filed by Mr. Gray. Perhaps he felt offended of forgery allegation by the defendants, or that he by himself might not have felt comfortable to talk and make a request to Hazar Imam in this respect.
May be you two together or your own can work out some solution. If such efforts are made the entire global Jamat would remain grateful to you.

An Open Request to Dr. Saheb
On September 18th, 2010 An ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

I am ordinary Murid with very or little knowledge, but have something to request you. People like me are likely to agree with your and Mr. Gray’s versions that it is Hazar Imam (HI) himself wrote letters to Mr. Tajdin to stop, and that HI was sad and angry with the defendants. But Dr. Saheb, you are the senior most leader of Ismaili Jamat all over the world. I am sure, it is possible for you to pacify HI and seek his forgiveness to these two and, more importantly, at the same time request HI to grant these two defendants a couple of minutes meeting. Dr. Saheb, your position is such that HI is unlikely to turn down your request. Outwardly, HI may seem sad but inwardly, he would be happy, for one of his leaders requesting him to pardon guilt of other two Murids and thereby want to save them from a great sin of Nafarmani.

Again, once you are able to schedule such a meeting at Paris, make it clear to defendants that all the expenses are to be borne by them and not a single penny will be provided to them for the meeting. This way, the defendants will become defenseless and the purpose of stopping them would be achieved.

Sir, do not rely on Mr. Gray’s efforts only, who being a professional and non-ismaili, will have his interest in making as much money as possible by complicating and lengthening the case. He will never give practical and workable solution with least expenses. This is the case with almost every lawyer.

Sir, it is not yet too late. Please try at least once and not only HI will be happy but entire Jamat of the world would be grateful to you and would applaud your efforts.

Hazar Imam is RahemRahimi and just.
On September 20th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

I truly believe Hazar Imam is Omniscient and Omnipresent.
He is going to let this case play out in a normal fashion.

Any settlement will be very negative to Imamat.Because it will still say that Imam sued his 2 murids
It is best for Imamat and the 2 defendants and Jamat if the Federal court of Canada proves that case was NOT initiated by Hazar Imam.
Any kind of internal settlement will still leave in history a mark that Imam sued a murid!
I am sure that is not a desirable history.
Also Nagib and Alnaz will have to live with all the bad names and disrespect. all their lives and how will they feel that Mawla is Just?

If any one has indeed done a forgery don't you think Hazar Imam would want that person to get what he deserves?
Any quick closure on his part will only indicate he is covering up the people even if they are wrong .
This is not acceptable either.
The best and the wisest step is let the case go its normal course and let court prove what is the truth.
In the physical realm Mawla does not have to move a finger.( in Batuni realm he is the main player)
Let everyone get their justice.
To have a close door settlement at this juncture would leave too many murids more disturbed and confused.

"Tara bandane tu hi tare
To nam rahe Ilahi"
Ali anant anant ya ali anant tu hi jane"

"You are the saviour for your believers.
Since you are divine and it is your duty
O ali you and only you know the end and the eternal truth"

If there is a case of forgery the person will get what he deserves.
I pray Mawla gives enough strength to his True Momins to continue bravely and patiently.
"Mali re sinche so gana
Rutu vina phal na hoye"

Even if gardener waters the plant hundred times a day the fruits will not appear on the plant unless the season is right.

We all have to be patient ,judgement will come in its own time.

* United States

DR Sachedina
On September 19th, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

Dr Sachedina is a very arrogant person, he can fire people, and it happened in Aiglemont that he did fire a person, nobody understood why he fired him, because he was a hard worker. But Mr Sachedina describes himself as the Insitution. The late Diwan Sir Eboo was so humble and humble, and this man is completely the opposite. Mowla knows the ''bedd'' of it. We can just pray the Mowla gives him a little ''Sabudi''. My mother uses to say that you people are educated but you don't know how to count, come here and I'll teach you how to do it, (translation of katchi bayra par gayra nahi).

* Canada

@ Mr Moez Nato
On September 19th, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

Very well said, we agree completely, well diversity is strength even in languages.

* Canada

Dr. Sachedina
On September 18th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Have you read Dr.'s transcripts? I don't think the jamat can or even should expect Dr. to act in our interests when he has so grossly insulted our Imam by saying that the Farmans made by the Imam in person are not farmans, and has openly defied the Imam (and insulted our Pirs) by saying bad things about our Ginans, and says we are not to follow our 48th Imsm's farmans.

* Canada

Institutional Work on Farmans
On September 17th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

In the cross-examinations, Mr Sachedina says that the matter was raised in 1998, and the Imam asked him to prepare and submit the material:

"A. And now it's being looked at. Because I -- so that you should be aware, I had raised this matter with Hazar Imam of the Time of my meetings with Nagib at that time about this whole issue, that we will need to make sure that there's a publication available.
Q. Did he give you an approval at that time? Did you ask him for approval at that time?
A. No, he had said that -- we are very, very clear on this matter, that whatever it is you prepare, submit, and then we will make a decision once I have reviewed the material." http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/30365

So what work was done to prepare and submit the material in 12 years?
Was this included in the 5-year plan of any institution?

In the cross-examinations, we see that contrary to their affidavits, Sachedina and Bhaloo did not make a special trip to tell Nagib to stop Farman publication, but instead, as in N. Tajdin's affidavit, they came in the context of a Focus program, and in this meeting, they offered to cooperate and picked up the draft of the 4th Kalam-e Imam-e Zaman book.

This could have been the perfect occasion to submit a draft to the Imam. However, Mr Bhaloo's cross-examination shows that they never took the draft to the Imam, and that the draft stayed in Bhaloo's home. http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/30395

How can we trust that any work will now be done by the institutions to submit a draft to the Imam? Has this work been included in anyone's yearly goals?

* Canada

For 12 years Imam has been
On September 18th, 2010 valimmohammed (not verified) says:

For 12 years Imam has been waiting for the draft of a farman book from the Institution for publication for him to approve and sign off for publication.

During the GJ one of the goals agreed was to publish a volume of ALL Speeches and a volume of ALL Farmans including the GJ Farmans.(" During the Golden Jubilee when we -- leaders of the jamat periodically meet Hazar Imam, and there were meetings with Hazar Imam about what will be the outputs that we will do before the Jubilee, during the Jubilee, and the post-Jubilee. And the farmans would be the compilation also of -- all the farmans of the Golden Jubilee would be included in this. So this was something that came out of the Golden Jubilee")

However this approval and the Farman book publication plan is not on any of the 5 years objectives or operating plans of IIS, DJI or ITREB ?? Right ?

* United Arab Emirates

Was Imam told the truth, and the whole truth!
On September 16th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I am sure everyone will agree that most if not all of the critical issues and evidence are now on record. For most of us legal language and evidential complexities can be confusing. So look at it very simply and asking a very simple question.

Did Dr Sachedina and or Mr Manji give all and the correct information they should have given to the Imam ? For example;

1 Alnaz had not been approached. Dr Sahedina was not sure but thinks Alnaz is running a website and distributing the book through that website.
2 This and the earlier Farman books have been distributed to Ismailies for the l;ast 18 years.
3 Farmans are not readily available to most murids in most JK’s or ITREB Offices. Jamat are not encouraged or informed they can come and read any farman they wish in Jamat Khannas. Has anyone heard any such announcement in the last 25 years ?
4 There are 2 professional experts who are confirming to Nagib that the 2 letters from the Imam are forgeries, and Nagib says he knows that the signature is lifted from another document.
5 Imam has authorized the printing of Farmans but the Leadership have not printed them due to other priorities.
6 The primary motivation for the Book by Nagib was that all Farmans are not available to most Murids nor reading of them by Murids is possible or encouraged.
7 Imam’s guidance, Farmans religious knowledge, and education for all murids is a priority for the imam. There is limited access and limited priority
8 ITREB & IIS have not been asked to verify and give a report on the authenticity and integrity of the Farmans in all the Books published by Nagib in the last 18 years.
9 Nagib has been running a website for over 15 years giving invaluable resources without making any profit. These resources are used by our Leaders, scholars and Students too.
10 Nagib has offered to share all his knowledge experience and resources for the benefit and betterment of the Jamat and our institutions
11 Nagib says he has explicit and implicit permission from the Imam to continue to publish farmans and distribute them to Ismailies.
12 Dr Sachedina had a 16 minute conversation with Nagib where he had made threats against Nagib
13 There have been no internal discussions and consultations amongst the leadership. This has been limited to discussions only between Dr Sachedina and Mr Manji.
14 There have been no institutional discussions or consultations amongst them or Local/National Mukhi Sahebs where Alnaz and Tajdin live.
16 The Jamati Seva profile of Nagib, Alnaz, and families with their Jamati appointments (List) were not given. Their local leadership and Mukhi Sahebs were also not consulted
17 Dr Sachedina had requested Nagib to meet the IIS team regarding assistance with publication of books by the IIS. After that meeting there was no progress. Was this communicated to the Imam.
18 Nagib is seeking direct guidance from the Imam which he will follow without question. The reason is because Nagib does not believe Dr Sachedina.

All this information and much more was available to Dr Sachedina and Mr Manji before the lawsuit was initiated. Why did they recommend this lawsuit and not have discussions the rest of the top leadership as directed by the Imam ?

Knowing all of the above would any leader recommend a lawsuit, and would the Imam authorize a lawsuit ?

Let us hope that this case is now settled as soon as possible.

* United Kingdom

Imam is Truth. Whoever did
On September 18th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Imam is Truth. Whoever did not tell him all the truth and told things which are in the category named "nothing but the truth" is there for a big surprise! Imam already knows what people tried to hide from Him. He probably wanted to put it on record and now this is done.

Cross Examinations
On September 15th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Without doubt, Dr. Sachedina has a very long management and administrative experience and that at a much higher level, and yet, he was not at all comfortable during his cross examination – resulting in contradiction of his own affidavits and his earlier cross – examinations.

On the other hand, both Nagib and Al Naz were very eloquent and clear during their cross examinations as well as conducting cross examinations of Dr. Sachedina and Mr. Bhaloo. Replies of both the defendants during their cross examinations were so clear cut and fluent that there was not even a single contradiction from their affidavits.

Like Dr. Sachedina, Nagib has also been facing the court first time -- and compared to Doctor, the job of Nagib was very tough. He was not only required to face a very prominent lawyer Mr. Gray but also has to conduct cross examinations of both Doctor and Mr. Bhaloo. Nagib was excellent at both the counts; he did his job splendidly well.

Any one having some knowledge of law, can easily deduce that Mr. Gray could not eject out any useful information from the defendants. All what he got was the same thing that both of them have narrated in their affidavits

When at one stage, Mr. Gray proposed to Nagib that Agakhan was sad with him because of forgery allegations of letters, Nagib was quick and confident in reply that He is happy with him as he was protecting His interest. And Mr. Gray could not ask any more questions to that reply.

Before cross examinations, some people thought Mr. Gray would shred all the evidences of the defendants into pieces, but nothing of that sort happened. On the other hand, Mr. Gray could not make even a small dent to any of the evidences of the defendants.

Did the LIF announcement deceive the jamat: YOU BE THE JUDGE....
On September 14th, 2010 Alnaz Jiwa (not verified) says:

ALREADY APPROVED (for publishing farmans) BY Mawlana Hazar Imam!!

LIF's announcement in January 16, 2010, informed the jamats as follows:

"The Jamat will be pleased to be informed that Mawlana Hazar Imam has already approved that the Jamati institutions should formally publish a volume containing the approved text of
his farmans, including those made for the Golden Jubilee."

Is the announcement accurate, or just one more deceit by LIF on the say so of Sachedina, you be the Judge:

On cross-examination of Mr. Shafik Sachedina during the Copyright litigation he answered as follows:

Q 390:
Mr. Jiwa: "The jamat would pleased to be informed that Molwana Hazar Imam has already approved that the Jamati Institution should formally publish a volume containing the approved text of his farmans." [as read] Do you know when did he formally approve this?

Mr. Sachedina: The principal. This is an approval of the principle to publish. That does not mean you can publish tomorrow. It is the principle that he has agreed. The principle to approve, that he has approved the principle of being able to publish the farmans at his time. He has not made a decision that tomorrow you will publish this. He has given his -- here, as I say to you, "approve the jamat to formally this." So he has given his agreement to publish. Now the process has got to be gone through.

Q 391:
Mr. Jiwa: Okay, so what I'm saying -- my question was: When did he give this approval?

Mr. Sachedina: This was during the -- this discussion has been on the table with Hazar Imam for a number of years.

Q: 392
Mr. Jiwa: No, this --

Mr. Sachedina: Listen to me, please. I have also.

MR. GRAY: Let him finish his --

Mr. Sachedina: I have to be able to give you the context of this. It is my right to give you a context to this. And, therefore during the Jubilee there were a -- during the Golden Jubilee of the Imam, there were a number of projects, and one of them was -- there's one to do with the speeches of the Imam, and this one also is the farmans of the Imam. And these were issues that were discussed by -- with Hazar Imam, and he has, as I said, given in principle his agreement to do this. The question is going to be the timing in when this will happen and the process has to -- due process will have to be gone through before they are released to the jamat.

Q 393:
R. JIWA: Q. So my question is when -- when the final approval was given?

Mr. Sachedina: About the...?

Q 394:
Mr. Jiwa: When you say "has already approved"?

Mr. Sachedina: I told you during the meeting with the leaders -- at the time of the Golden Jubilee, this proposal was --

Q 395:
Mr. Jiwa: No, it would be nice if you would say what month, what year?

Mr. Sachedina: During the Golden Jubilee when we -- leaders of the jamat periodically meet Hazar Imam, and there were meetings with Hazar Imam about what will be the outputs that we will do before the Jubilee, during the Jubilee, and the post-Jubilee. And the farmans would be the compilation also of -- all the farmans of the Golden Jubilee would be included in this. So this was something that came out of the Golden Jubilee.

Q 396:
Mr. Jiwa: So you cannot point to the month that he gave --

Mr. Sachedina: This was done in the context of the principle of -- agreement by approval by Hazar Imam to do certain things. And this was informed to the jamat that that approval has been given by Imam to do this. But, as I say to you, there's a process to follow, which Hazar Imam will have to be -- his guidance will have to be sought.

MR. GRAY: Excuse me just for a second.

--- Off-the-record discussion.

Q 397:
Mr. Jiwa: Now, Mr. Sachedina, your announcement --

Mr. Sachedina: Yes.

Q 398:
Mr. Jiwa: You were talking about this already approved and you explained that. Now, to your knowledge has His Highness, prior to his Golden Jubilee approval, has he ever approved prior to that for the publication of the farmans?

Mr. Sachedina: The principle to publish?

Q 399:
Mr. Jiwa: What do you mean "the principle"?

Mr. Sachedina: Because the fact is that, you know, there is no publication at the present time. There is no publication of farmans authorized by any institution actually at the present time which is there. So this will be something that is in the process. It was in the process, principle was agreed with Hazar Imam.

Q 400:
Mr. Jiwa: Right.

Mr. Sachedina: And now it's being looked at. Because I -- so that you should be aware, I had raised this matter with Hazar Imam of the Time of my meetings with Nagib at that time about this whole issue, that we will need to make sure that there's a publication available.

Q 401:
Mr. Jiwa: Did he give you an approval at that time? Did you ask him for approval at that time?

Mr. Sachedina: No, he had said that -- we are very, very clear on this matter, that whatever it is you prepare, submit, and then we will make a decision once I have reviewed the material.

Q 402:
Mr. Jiwa: Right. And so he said that in 1998 to you?

Mr. Sachedina: He said the principle about this is something I'm willing to consider and I'm willing to look at. And that's why I was very satisfied that this is where the direction we will end up at some point in time, but only after he has given his authority ###.

End of transcripts.......

Has the publication been "already approved" as announced on January 16, 2010?? You be the Judge!!!

Alnaz Jiwa

* Canada

Cross examination of Sachedina by AlnazJiwa
On September 21st, 2010 Alibhai Jivani USA (not verified) says:

Excellent work!
Very impressive!
Cannot happen without Mawla standing by you Alnaz!
Be humble, pray constantly and do Ibadat ,You have nothing to worry brother.
Hold Jamatkhana as tight as you can close to your heart.
Make his good momins happy and you will be blessed immensely
Just hang in there

* United States

Why is Dr Sachedina fumbling so much?
On September 17th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

The cross examination of Dr Sachedina regarding approval for publication of firman book is very troubling.
Why is he fumbling so much on such a simple issue ?
What is he blabbering about "principle" of publishing all the time?
It appears he is nervous and and not honest.

I agree that in Deedars and Darbars Hazar Imam gives Farmans extempore without any notes so he might like to review it once before it is read in JK ,which is normal we notice that Firman does not get read in JK right away but after a few days since it gets reviewd by HI before reading in JK.
These are the very farmans with the Tarika board.

Now why does Tarikaboard have to keep bugging Hazar Imam to review again before publication?
IIS and Tarika board are given the responsibility of compiling publishing and distributing efficiently in a timely fashion.
How much more red tape and bureacracy before a simple very important job is done in a timely fashion?
It is like saying Bismillah after every morcel of food?
Just say Bismillah with good heart when you begin your meal and say Shukhar once it is done
Hazar imam has so many issues to adress why keep on bugging him for the same thing again and again ?
He has created Institutions so that his work load is reduced not increased.

"To agree in principle to publish" this phrase does not make much sense to me.
For 1400 years the firmans are made and since we cannot remember them we need written books so we can read again and again.
This principle is there since time immemorial
Vedas, Bhagvat, Bible, Kuran , Firmans of previous Imams ,this Imam etc etc
When was ever the principle of compiling the Holy firmans of Imam ever denied by any Imam?
So why that would ever be a landmark event during GJ?

Yes ,Tarika board must complete the task of compiling and publishing the farmans ASAP during and after GJ that could have been an initiative(agreed principle!). ( that is not to keep beating around the bush as has been the case for several years but JUST DO IT.)

* United States

LIF did not deceive the Jamat in my view !
On September 15th, 2010 A concerned Murid (not verified) says:

Dear Mr Jiwa

I refer to Mr Alnaz Jiwa's comment regarding the LIF announcement.

The LIF and the National Council's joint announcement confirms that the publication of farmans is approved AND also in the process of publication because the LIF announcement goes on to say that this publication will be available to the Jamat in the near future.

What Dr Sachedina is now saying in his cross examination lacks clarity and totally contradicts the LIF announcement in January 2010. Therefore either the LIF announcement is not true or what he is now saying is not true.

LIF and national councils may have been allowing Dr Sachedina to rubber stamp directives and instructions because this is normal established practice and there is no reason not to beleive Dr sachedina when he communicated Imams directives, guidance and wishes to and through the LIF.

In fact LIF was not even consulted regarding this lawsuit but was breifed by Dr Sachedina after the lawsuit (confirmed by Dr Sachedina).

Therefore LIF as a body did not consider and then make that announcement. So LIF as a body of leaders did not intentionally deceive the Jamat or their sister institution (in this case the national councils)

If the Farmans are not in the process of being published then we can be sure that LIF will seek calrification on this and any other matters institutionally and from the Imam where they consider it necessary.

I am sure Dr Sachedina, Mr Manji, LIF and leaders will do what is right and in the best interest of the jamat.

* United Arab Emirates

Mawla's unique message through LIF as read in JK (9/4/2010)
On September 16th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Mawla sent an unique message emphasising to the LIF in the meeting on 4th Sept 2010 in London which was read on the 9th Sept 2010 in JK.
"Communicate " to my jamats my Special blessings, my Special blessings ,my Love, my Thoughts and my Affection"(some more message.....)

It is incredible the message emphasised "communicate".
I have heard all the other blessings but not the above 5 in the order mentioned.
I am sure Mawla attends quite a few if not all the LIF meetings and must be sending blessings for the jamat everytime he meets them but do we hear from LIF everytime that Mawla has sent blessings? And articulated as given?
I am sure so often it is taken as given routine passed on by LIF without given necessary importance and without communicating to Jamat that Mawla had to use the word "communicate" my blessing and message this time.
Am I reading in between lines?

* United States

Mowla's Message
On September 16th, 2010 Sadaaf (not verified) says:

Alibhai,

I think not only are you reading between the lines, you are probably also "drawing new lines". Starting from Dubai December 2003 to the last message, Mowla has used many phrases and constructed sentences that we had not come across before. Would you have found it just as incredible if Mowla had said "convey" or "share with"? If you are infering that the LIF do not always pass on messages then why do you think they decided not to hold back this time?
And for your information this was the first LIF meeting that Mowla attended after 13 December 2008 and does not generally attend the meetings.

* United Kingdom

@Alibhai Jiwani
On September 16th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Many thanks for sharing this beautiful message from Our Beloved Hazar Imam. Thank you once again

* Canada

Comunicate to my Jamat my thoughts !
On September 16th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

We have heard Mawla reassure us many times that we are always in his heart and thoughts.

This message is special alsobecause Mawla wishes his thoughts to be communicated to the Jamat. Mubaraki to LIF, and thank you for communicating these messages and guidance from the Imam. Assuming Alibhai's recollection of the announcement is correct (no reason to doubt it)

* United Arab Emirates

LIF's position
On September 15th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

They have had months to clarify, and despite the confusion and issues raised, no clarification has been in order.

Also the announcement WAS on behalf of LIF, wasn't it?

* Canada

Understanding cross-examinations......
On September 14th, 2010 Alnaz Jiwa (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad:

Many are reading the summaries of the transcripts on Ismaili.net. However, those are simply summaries. For insistence, I do not believe that all answers have been produced in the summaries.

If you wish to understand the issues well, please read the whole transcripts, not just a few questions and answers in the summary.

UNDERSTANDING TRANSCRIPTS:

Also note that when reading transcripts, remember that questioning on cross-examinations is not simple. If a person has stolen something, and he is on trial, he will never agree that he stole that item, and so questions have to be complicated and dealing with side issues, or what appears like side issues, and then the judge determines the credibility of the accused and seeks to make findings of guilt or innocence based on all of the answers.

If you think that a thief can only be found guilty if he admitted that he stole the item, than there would not be any convictions in any court across the world. Often what appears as an innocent question traps the accused and the answer betrays his guilt.

Similarly, pay close attention to questions and answers of the two witnesses, Sachedina and Bhaloo. Often they simply refused to answer the question asked, or answered a completely different unasked question, or were defiant.

For example: I challenged Sachedina and told him that only he (Mohamed Kashevjee and others like them) say that Hazar Imam edits and approved the Farmans, (a point he repeatedly made), and I asked him to show me one document (other than the forged ones sent to us after or just before the litigation) - namely either a Farman, a memo or Direction sent by Hazar Imam to ITREB, or anyone, or an article of our Constitution (which I had established previously (before the Constitution was completely changed in 1986) had clauses on the publication of Farmans). Sachedina emphatically said that there is an article in the 1986 Constitution that says that Hazar Imam has the exclusive right to edit and approve Farmans. Not surprisingly, the article he pointed to had nothing to do with it. On the contrary, much later when I asked him about a document produced (dated May 17, 2010) in the litigation that seemed to suggest a process has been established for the publication of Farmans, he said that Hazar Imam HAD asked him to produce what was the process adopted by ITREB to publish Farmans (note!!! nothing to do with Hazar Imam saying this is the PROCESS I WANT ITREB TO FOLLOW).

His answers completely betrayed their position that it is Mawlana Hazar Imam WHO edits and approved Farmans. (There are many questions in different areas of the transcript that needs to be reviewed to understand the full extend of the evidence given by them.)

But one thing is clear, that after almost 300 pages of transcripts, there is NOT ONE shred of evidence to support their stand that Mawlana Hazar Imam edits and/or authorizes the release of Farmans. Am I surprised. No, not at all.

All of the older Constitutions (prior to 1986) expressly gave authority to Association (as it was then known) the following powers:

“HOLY FARMAN AND THE CONSTITUTION
...
7. The Ismailia Association shall record, compile and certify Holy Farman.
8. The Ismailia Association in consultation with the Supreme Council shall be responsible for publication of Holy Farman.
9. Copies of Holy Farman shall be forwarded by the Ismailia Association to the Supreme Council.
10. Any Holy Farman certified by the President of the Supreme Council shall be conclusive evidence thereof.

NOTE: there is no EDITING of Farmans at all required.

NOTE: there is no PRIOR approval required of the Imam at all.

So it is NOT surprising that they have NOT given one shred of evidence that MHI edits His farmans (other than the forged signatures), or NEEDS to edit His Farmans. Yet during this period up to 1986 when the new Constitution came into being, not one book was published although they had the power to do so.

In order to understand the issues (or else people make the same argument as made by another netter earlier to follow the "second letter") one must read all documents if that person wants to come to grips with the issues AND also to keep in mind our Imam's Farmans, traditions, going back to hundreds of years, or else one is simply barking up the wrong trees.

Also interesting read is about the announcement made re: Hazar Imam has "already approved" the publication of Farman books. Read it yourself and see if you can make sense of the answers (after reading the answers a few times, I cannot still make sense of what he was saying), and then make up your mind whether the announcement was truthful or not.

Alnaz Jiwa

* Canada

Dear Alnaz, I am worried about you.
On September 15th, 2010 Dilawar H Momin (not verified) says:

Dear Alnaz Jiwa,
You understand very well how guilt mind works and therefore you accordingly answered the questions asked in your cross examinations.
Yes Dr. Sachedina and Mr. Bhaloo didn't answer all questions because they wanted to safeguard the interest of Imam and the Ismailis. How Imam works and how He gives instructions, direction and guidance to the leaders or what kind of process He has established or followed is not of your business and they are right in not disclosing that information and His policy regarding His Farmans.
Are you saying Imam has no authority over His Own Farmans? He can do whatever He wants to do with His Farmans. You can not dictate or decide whether there is need for editing or not. It is only Imams prerogative as He knows what is in best interest of His Jamat and Imam is not bound or obliged to let you know how He wants to deal with His Farmans. And here all arguments end. Period.
Mr. Alnaz, since last 25 years Farmans are not published. Do you think Imam is not aware of it? Or is leadership lazy to publish? Or is it not capable to publish the Farmans? Or is leadership intentionally not publishing the Farmans? Or do they have some malicious intentions? Or do they conspire against Imam and Ismailism?
Any sane person can understand that though you know the truth and instead of accepting it, you created the excuse of by twisting the event of Mehmani, of forged signatures so that you can continue to fight the leadership and this law suit in the pretext of defending all Ismail’s interest and bring out the "misled" Imam (your words in Cross Examination, Q/A 67, 68; pg 229) from the clutches of corrupt leadership.
Mr. Alnaz, come out of the illusion, and surrender to the Imam of the Time unconditionally whereby you can still save the Imam Murid relationship. I am worried about you. We will survive without published Farmans as His blessings are enough for us but what about you?

* United States

@Dilawar
On September 16th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Brother Dilawar, I can see from your above post you are "worried about Alnaz", that's very kind of you, but we all know that Our Beloved Hazar Imam loves all His Murids, and He will take care of Alnaz and Naqib, and will also take care of the situation. May Allah give you Peace and Happiness. Ameen. Thank You.

* Canada

@ Dilawar
On September 16th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

Dear Dilawar:

It seems you are very quick making your judgment. One must read thoroughly all the documents along with cross examinations, and then to look for inter relationship between them as well as contradictions.
To understand this case one must have at least some background and /or similar experience as well as general knowledge of laws and the methodology adopted by the courts.
The next stage at the court is ‘arguments’, and hence it is likely that the court will not be able to deliver final judgment possibly until end of the year. Also courts do not go by personalities but by evidences, cross examinations, and arguments. So please have patience and let us wait until then.

Wrong assumptions lead to unfair conclusions
On September 16th, 2010 Concerned Momin (not verified) says:

Dilawer Momim; I feel your assumptions are emotional, unsubstantiated and frankly wrong because you have not read and understood the many reasons why Alnaz and Nagib are seeking direct guidance from the Imam.

Please read why Dr Sachedina says Mr Alnaz Jiwa is included in the lawsuit. http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/30389. I hope you will now look at your post again and judge for yourself if you have been being fair and reasonable to Alnaz Jiwa..

* United Arab Emirates

Not for my liking, thank you.
On September 15th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Please don't worry about me. With Hazar Imam's Noor on my side, I am well taken care of.

You said: You understand very well how guilt mind works and therefore you accordingly answered the questions asked in your cross examinations.

What !!! I tell clients: tell the truth and cross-examinations will be breeze. Lie, hide the truth, exaggerate, or try to deceive: you will be crucified.

You said: Dr. Sachedina and Mr. Bhaloo didn't answer all questions because they wanted to safeguard the interest of Imam and the Ismailis.

What !!! Hazar Imam says, be ethical, be truthful, be upfront.... are you suggesting that Shafik and Aziz were committing perjury? That they were told to do so by Hazar Imam? For god’s sake, they WERE witnesses of the named plaintiff weren’t they, and they wanted to do what - Lie? Hide the truth? Deceive? (after taking an oath?) Wow. Your arguments reminds me of some historical characters when they were arguing against Hazrat Ali, and Imam Hussein?

You said: How Imam works and how He gives instructions, direction and guidance to the leaders or what kind of process He has established or followed is not of your business and they are right in not disclosing that information and His policy regarding His Farmans.

What !!! As an Ismaili it is MY business. You may not want to be guided by farmans (it is obvious you are not familiar with Hazar Imam’s Guidance in this regard: see farman made by Him to Gilgit in 1987, and in India in 1992 and those farmans will show off your ignorance as betrayed in your above comment.) Furthermore, His guidance, directions WERE announced in the jamatkhanas? Why, if not to inform us and to make us part of the process.

This is my point. People (you as an example) are quick to make comments without any understanding of our traditions, Farmans, Ginans, and they think they know it all.

You said: created the excuse of by twisting the event of Mehmani, of forged signatures so that you can continue to fight the leadership and this law suit in the pretext of defending all Ismail’s interest and bring out the "misled" Imam (your words in Cross Examination, Q/A 67, 68; pg 229) from the clutches of corrupt leadership.

You were NOT even present at the Mehmani, were you? How much do you know about our traditions, farmans, ginans. What about our history? I bet none. (After all you are content to be without farmans, it says it all!!!) Do you know that leaders have misled the Imams? Forget about leaders? Do you know that even an Imam’s son, own blood, once became Imam without being appointed by his father and took over his brother’s right (coup the right Imam’s appointment)? I bet not. If you KNEW you would be careful in making the comments you made.

So for one who has no idea of what is expected by the Imam what can I expect of him. (Note your own comment: His blessings are enough for us...?) No I am not satisfied just with Blessings. Our Imams have said (you don’t read farmans so how would you know), that, “without action prayer is useless”, and there are so many farmans that URGE us to abide by the Farmans and Ginans and Constitution (one is: “I have given you Farmans which I urge you to follow, because these Farmans I make are made for My Jamats”).

Of course, there are many who do not care about Imam’s guidance (as your own comments suggest) and do not care about following farmans. Hazar Imam has said: An Ismaili who did not obey My word in matters of faith, would not be excommunicated, he would still be a Muslim. He simply would no longer be a member of the jamath (his followers).” How would one be able to comply with this without reading farmans?

So please, please don’t count me as part of your group because I’d rather follow the Imam and not be with the likes of some historical characters when they were also saying what you said: WE DO NOT NEED FARMANS OF HAZRAT ALI? In fact, just in the same vein as you, Shafik has aslo said similar things isn’t it - Hazar Imam’s farmans made by him in person are NOT FARMANS.

So please, do me a favour and No, don’t count me with you, and the likes of you.

* Canada

@Alnaz
On September 16th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Excellent writing. Alnaz I know you and Nagib have very strong faith in Our Beloved Hazar Imam, He loves all His Murids and He will take care of the situation. Thank You.

* Canada

Mr. Dilawar H. Momin
On September 15th, 2010 Natasha (not verified) says:

Mr. Dilawar, relax man!!!!! I do surf Heritage which is an excellent site and when I read your comments they are full of anger and hatred. Mr. Dilawar before telling off the defendants why don't you change your attitude, if not the best site to surf is vancouverite. Enjoy surfing Sir Dilawar

* Canada

@ Natasha
On September 16th, 2010 Nash (not verified) says:

Very Well said, Thank You.!

* Canada

Imam's prerogative to chose
On September 15th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Dear Dilawar H Momin

Imam knows that the group of murids he has entrusted to publish his Farmans, are publishing them accurately since 20 years. Questioning the Imam on why he chose this group to fulfill his instructions instead of allowing some institutions to do it would be challenging the Imam on what is his prerogative.

This is exactly what you have done in your post above. You have challenged the Imam in his decision to chose whoever he wishes for whatever missions he wishes. You have challenged the Imam to have chosen the occasion of a mehmani to give his instruction to his murids. You should go back to Ismaili history and try to understand that the Imam's authority does not depend on your understanding. Maybe the Imam did not chose you for this task because he felt others were more competent and more likely to succeed in this task. There is no need to be jealous. Maybe some day the Imam will give you some tasks which are more at your level...

I hope Alnaz shares his views on your post.

Re: some posts of Sept. 15
On September 16th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Dear Librarian-umed,
Some of the comments that appeared on the 15th (and maybe the 14th too) were of unusually caustic and almost "vitriolic" style; in the future, could the authors of such comments be asked to reword the parts of their messages that are unreasonably caustic before you post them? Please know that I mean no offense !
Thank you for making all the information available to us.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Kanize
On September 18th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Very well written. Thank You.

* Canada

Imam's expectations of the Jamats
On September 15th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

“But basically, the new Constitution provides that every Murid has the same relationship to the Imam-of-the-Time in the administration of Jamati matters and that is, I think, a very important step. The Constitution has not been designed as an instrument of uncaring direction. On the contrary, it is an instrument seeking to respond to the needs of the Jamat in a manner which will serve the purpose and the interests of the Jamat. The Constitution has been designed, therefore, to serve. And it is in that spirit that I would wish the leadership of the Jamat to conceive of this document. It is a document aimed at serving the Jamat." Mawlana Hazar Imam, Gilgit 1987.

This farman has NEVER been read to the jamats.

What is the Imam saying, what does the Imam expect of the Jamats?

* Canada

Imam encourages checks and balances, trust and cooperation
On September 17th, 2010 Valimohammed (not verified) says:

After the Constitution in 1986 and the enabling environment. Imam gives his thoughts in a public speech in March 1987 about checks and balances “…It is my profound conviction that steps to strengthen institutions and the linkages between them are critical to the freedom of the individual to be creative and productive in a socially responsible manner. This is the essence of the Enabling Environment. In textbooks, most discussion of freedom centers on the prevention of absolute power. It is about checks and balances. The time has come to evolve concepts and practices of "positive freedom," the links between individuals and institutions and the rules of the game that encourage mutual trust, promote cooperation, unleash human potentials and make possible a whole that is greater than the sum of the parts…. I would like to see a broadening of the dialogue on the support and strengthening of institutions..”

* United Arab Emirates

Thank you for sharing. Most
On September 17th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

Thank you for sharing. Most murids & Leaders will be shocked as I am that this Farman (or any Farman) has not been read to the Jamats or guidance from the Imam not shared.

Imam made this Farman in 1987. He knew then that that that the Jamat & Leaders will require the right enabling tools and resources to meet the administrative challenges of self interest, meritrocracy and pluralism. Imam has since given guidance on the enabling enviornment, meritrocracy, pluralism collaboration, frontierless brotherhood and community and the knowledge or now the creative society.

Imam gave this guidance and knew 23 years ago what is today acknowledged and advocated by the top management gurus regarding institutional solutions. The old traditional administrative model has major side effects. It tempts historically senior Leaders to appoint in their own "images", and this reduces genetic diversity, meritocracy, transparency, & trust. It produces frequent misalignments between positional power and leadership capability. This thereby increases nepotism and undermines the motivation for common interest, trust and morale.

The LIF Meeting on 4th Sept which Mawla attended and with all ITREB Chairpersons being present in London was an excellent and a unique "opportunity" for Leaders.

As a global commuinity we have the right guidance, tools, resources and capacity for extraordinary acomplishments which can be acheived sooner.

Imam is saying to the Jamat and epsecially the leaders that inclusiveness and participation of the Jamat are central and crucial "... in the administration of Jamati matters.." and in order "to serve" the interests of the Jamat as a whole..

I am certainI speak for other murids and leaders, when I say a BIG THANK YOU to you again for sharing this Farman. May Mawla bless you with more seva, peace and happiness. Ameen.

* United Arab Emirates

Farman on constitution
On September 17th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

I have only partially quoted from the Farman, the whole Farman has about 90 sentences on the constitution and, in my humble opinion, all Ismailis, specially all office bearers must read, understand and abide by this and a few other such farmans on the constitution.

* Canada

Cross-examinations (original docs etc.) of expert.......
On September 14th, 2010 Alnaz Jiwa (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad:

Mr. Gray asked us to produce original documents of Talikas that we borrowed from other murids to obtain samples of signatures and the original letters purportedly written by Hazar Imam. The Talikas were returned to the murids who had lent them to us, but not giving them the originals is not significant as copies of the sample signatures were produced. Gray has not even alleged that any of the signatures given as samples by us are "not" real signatures.

The original letters purportedly sent by Hazar Imam have not been given to them by us, as they are the ONLY originals and are of immense value as they are the ONLY proof we have of the forgeries, and if lost (???) would be an immense benefit to Shafik and his associates.

Furthermore, it baffles my mind that Gray wanted to have his expert review the originals (purportedly sent by his client) instead of having Hazar Imam (if Hazar Imam is the plaintiff) who could have given evidence of the authenticity of the signatures without having to see the originals. (The only attempt to prove that Hazar Imam wrote the two letters is itself a document (3rd one) with forged signature.)

The issue of Hazar Imam's health and age is nonsense. Hazar Imam (admitted by Shafik) is in very good health.

However, I urge all to take a test: there are three signatures of Hazar Imam - 1st letter, 2nd letter (with handwritings) and the Affirmation (purportedly signed before a lawyer). All were signed between January and May of this year. They are saying all of these are AUTHENTIC. We are saying not so.

Take this test: review the three signatures, and you will no doubt agree that 1st and 3rd signatures are alike, BUT the 2nd letter's signatures is different, signature is original (is cut from another document and pasted to the one sent to Nagib), then why are the other 2 signatures different from the 2nd letter.

All you need is COMMON SENSE to compare the signatures, and to date I have not come across anyone (even those who don't read English) who have said all three signatures are alike. All are alleged to have been signed within weeks of each other and all signed in old age and after the injury - and yet one (2nd one) is completely different.

The cross-examination of the expert did NOT impeach his findings, although health, age, and having more of current signatures are issues raised. NOTE: No current signatures were provided by Gray to our expert to impeach his findings, by showing that Hazar Imam's current signatures have actually deteriorated due to age or health. None whatsoever.

In a separate note, I will post my view of cross-examinations, how to read and understand them.

Ya Ali Madad.

Alnaz Jiwa

* Canada

Authenticity of Affirmation
On September 15th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

Why didnt you cross examine the Notary Public and Lawyer who were present at signing of Affirmation in Boston in May and have signed affidavits to that effect ?? A slightly varying "" different"" signature by the real , actual , verified and named person DOES NOT make it a forgery , does it ? That is what these two claim n their affidavits, dont they ? Allahu Alim

* Canada

Comments betrays the writer's knowledge (or lack thereof)
On September 15th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

You are suggesting that slightly different signatures do not mean a forged signature. Are you suggesting that a forger will forge an OBVIOUSLY different signature??? I think not. Please read up on forged signatures, it cannot be a passing and cursory review to enable you to make reasoned decision (how much time have you spent on reviewing the various signatures, and have you reviewed authentic signatures under machines to review the strokes, style, etc.? I can bet, the answer will be "none".) . Signatures are signed by people unconsciously, the strokes, the starting lines, ending gestures, all are automatic. A forger will get some or many similarities in signature he is trying to forge, but, and a big but, he cannot get the unconscious things right.

You asked why not cross examine the notary and lawyer. You will have to wait to hear my arguments to the Court to reveal the real reason and to identify the major flaws not only in their evidence (on their face) but also in the Affirmation itself.

* Canada

Alnaz's above reply to the previous post
On September 20th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Touché !!
Ya Aly madad !

* Canada

Cross examine the Notary Public and Lawyer?
On September 15th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

I think that question was already answered in the cross-examinations. There is no point examining a third party that may be mistaken. The definitive answer can only be given by the Aga Khan Himself.... If He is the one who actually signed.

Re: Believer's above post
On September 17th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Brother Believer,
With all due respect, may I draw your attention on the fact that if Hazer Imam was the One Who had signed the documents, then Mr. Gray would never have needed to cross-examine Mr. Ospreay, he would just have asked Mowla Bapa to appear and say that He is the one Who had signed, and, in the first place, there would never have been a trial either, since the defendants would have submitted to His will without questioning it...It is because the signature IS forged that the defendants CANNOT give in. And please, brother Believer, remember that the Imam of the Time would NEVER sue a mureed whose bayyat He has accepted...
Forgive me if my remarks are offending you: I don't mean to.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Cross-Examination of Defense Expert Mr Ospreay by Lawyer Mr Gray
On September 13th, 2010 heritage says:

Cross-Examination of Expert Shows Main Weakness of Lawsuit Allegedly by Aga Khan - 2010-09-12

The cross-examination of Mr Ospreay only shows more clearly that Mr Gray has no new credible evidence to present, and that he has no direct access to the Aga Khan to clear up the forgery issue. This gives more credibility to the Defendants' claim that the whole case is initiated by a usurper and not by the Aga Khan Himself.

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

Ospreay's cross-examination
On September 14th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for making this available to us, Heritage Staff!
Keep up the good work!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

lawsuit Cross-examination
On September 14th, 2010 nato (not verified) says:

Le désarroi d’un intellectuel ismaili

Ces derniers jours, disons depuis la fin du mois précieux du Ramadan, nous sommes inondés d’informations et des échanges peu courtois, parfois belliqueux qui s’adressent directement à Alnaz et Tazdine. Halte, s’il vous plaît, halte là !

Nous sommes, nous restons et resterons frères et sœurs ! Le lien du Bhayat à notre Vénéré Imam est indéfectible ! Ce ciment et cet acte d’allégeance sont éternels !

Et nous sommes tous d’accord que ce procès juridique, étalé avec fracas dans les milieux juridiques et publics ne nous fait pas plaisir, nous déconcerte et nous met dans l’embarras absolu ! Et notre tristesse est immense et très sincèrement, nous souhaitons, nous prions quotidiennement que cette douloureuse parenthèse soit rapidement refermée une fois pour toute !

Ce procès n’a pas lieu d’être ! C’est un procès inutile ! A ce que je sache, Alnaz et Tazdine ne mettent pas en cause le fondement, les Dogmes de notre Tariquah Ismaili ! Au contraire, voulant servir notre Imam –e Zaman, ils ont depuis longtemps avec un engagement sincère, dynamique, avec un investissement en temps, connaissance, financier… voulu mettre leur savoir-faire et ainsi faire bénéficier l’ensemble de notre Jamat du monde entier des Farmans, des directives, des discours, des interventions de Mowlana Hazar Imam ! Je leur suis très reconnaissant !

Le monde bouge, le monde est globalisé et après ces décennies d’installation dans le monde industrialisé, en Europe, dans le continent américain, canadien, nous subissons de plein fouet la perte des repères, l’ignorance de l’éthique non de la Foi mais même l’éthique laïque…. la fulgurante ascension de l’individualisme, de l’égoïsme, du matérialisme…. qui peut aujourd’hui dire que tout ce que Mowlana Hazar Imam dit, fait ne nous rend pas fier d’être Ses fidèles !

Dans notre entourage professionnel, nous sommes déjà une minorité et encore minorité plus forte parmi d’autres musulmans, alors dans mon comportement de tous les jours, je me nourris constamment des Farmans, des discours de Mowla Bapa et souvent j’ai besoin de me plonger, replonger chez moi dans ces Farmans ! Et que disent ces Farmans ! Qu’il n’y a pas conflit entre l’intellect et la Foi, que le pluralisme, la diversité sont des atouts et non un handicap, que l’Ethique de notre Foi, notre Pratique Esotérique de l’Islam est une quête spirituelle, personnelle, intime, individuelle et que il ne doit pas avoir un conflit entre Din et Dounia ! Et dans ma vie professionnelle, en contact permanent avec des croyants, agnostique, athées, chrétiens, hindous, israélite… musulmans sunnites…..mon comportement d’un individu laïque certes mais ismaili tolérant, généreux, serviable, disponible pour des discussions et échanges sans agressivité… est irréprochable et souvent force l’estime et l’admiration ! et en toute simplicité, en toute honnêteté intellectuelle, je n’hésite pas à afficher et dire que je tiens ces repères, ces codes de vie de mon Imam du temps Présent qui s’appelle AGAKHAN IV ! Et à plusieurs reprises, je leur ai fourni des textes, non des Farmans mais des discours, des interventions de Mowla Bapa….et laissez moi vous dire que cela les impressionne ! Mowla Bapa ne nous a pas dit que nous devons être des ambassadeurs de l’Islam et être fiers de notre Tariquah qui est un mode de vie lié à la paix, la tolérance, le pardon et la justice…..

Je vous en supplie, ne nous disputons pas et ne cherchons pas à agresser Tazdin et Alnaj. Ils ont déjà beaucoup de pressions comme cela.

Disons seulement tous ensemble et bien forts que nous ne sommes pas très heureux de cet étalage de notre linge sale en public ! A ma connaissance, on n’a pas utilisé toutes les ressources, Mukhis Sahebs, Présidents des Councils, ITREB, CAB, ICAB. ….les Sages et anciens Leaders du Jamat pour résoudre ce différend qui pour moi reste mineur ! Vraiment, il y a des domaines où on doit plutôt s’investir, mettre en commun notre énergie, notre savoir et selon les Hidayats de Mowla Bapa des différents Golden Jubilee voir comment résoudre les problèmes de la grande pauvreté, de la qualité de vie digne des Seniors ….. et je reviens d’un séjour au Tadjikistan où des milliers de membres jeunes et moins jeunes attendent que nous les épaulions pour prendre leur destin en mains !
Arrêtons de nous invectiver et d’aggraver inutilement les dissensions entre nous ! Ce procès est triste, très triste ! Et quelque soit le dénouement, nous restons et serons toujours par la Grâce de Mowlana Hazar Imam Ses Enfants spirituels ! Et que Mowla nous garde tous sur la voie droite du Siratal-Mustaquim !

Mohez nato docteur-es Sciences UPS11 Paris
Ps : j’autorise les internautes comme Kanize, Yasmine…..à traduire mes propos en anglais !

* France

Re: Le commentaire de Mohez Nato
On September 16th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Mille excuses ! Quelqu'un d'autre a déjà affiché une traduction produite par un logiciel...
Merci tout de même de m'avoir jugée digne de confiance pour traduire votre message !
Ya Aly madad.

PS Si vous pensiez qu'il y avait étalage de linge sale sur ce site auparavant (avant le message ci-dessus), eh bien, vous risquez d'être fort choqué (et dégoûté, je n'en doute pas) des derniers commentaires qui viennent de paraître (le 15)...Cent "ameen" à vos prières, car beaucoup semblent être en train de s'égarer, hélas.

* Canada

Re Kanize, Dilawar
On September 16th, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madat Kanize et Dilaware,

Effectivement Kanize, je suis effondré, très triste de ce que je viens de lire ! Ce que je craignais est en en train de se produire ! Quand je parle de linge sale, dans une grande famille comme la nôtre, avec les jeunes générations qui sont là, qui sont plus exigeantes, veulent plus de transparence, veulent servir dans la clarté…. je crois vraiment que nous n’avons pas à aller prendre des avocats, des juges et nous justifier, nous s’invectiver ….devant des personnalités non ismailies ! Mowla Bapa a toujours prôné la modération, le consensus, l’entente, l’usage de notre Intellect pour résoudre ensemble nos différends et nos malentendus… et savoir pardonner ! Il y a de nombreux Farmans la dessus ! Pourquoi on n’a pas fait appel aux représentants (Mukhi Sahebs) de Mowla Bapa à Toronto, Nairobi et Montréal ? Pourquoi le CAB, le INCAB sont restés inactifs. Mais pourquoi ? C’est contraire à toutes les directives de Mowla Bapa ! Personnellement, je pense que ces représentants auraient résolu, mieux que le LIF ce différend !

Please Dilawar, un peu de retenue ! Ma tolérance, par ce que je suis votre frère de Foi, m’amène à respecter votre point de vue mais je suis obligé de m’insurger contre vos écrits contre Alnaj.

Dilawar, je vous trouve intolérant, violent, haineux et belliqueux ! S’il vous plaît, n’excitez pas la haine, j’ai peur de cette haine ! J’ai peur de vos écrits car vous savez bien qu’un grand nombre d’ismailis, à travers le monde souffrent, sont malheureux de cette histoire de procès ! Nous prions que cela s’arrête vite !!! Dilawar, J’ai peur de ce que vous avancez car vous vous drapez derrière une morale des intérêts, de l’ordre qui vient du LIF et qu’il faut exécuter sans discuter ! Non ! Non ! et Non ! Nous avons un profond respect, estime et admiration pour cette Institution. Il faudrait qu’elle aussi applique les Directives de Mowlana Hazar Imam, c’est– à dire être au service de Son Jamath, d’accepter le pluralisme, la diversité même des opinions, d’appliquer à la lettre la méritocratie, d’appeler et s’ouvrir à toutes les bonnes volontés dans le Jamath, d’être tolérant, modeste et surtout humble ! C’est le devoir premier du LIF ! C’est de cette façon que leurs annonces, leurs directives seront prises au sérieux !

Nous avons tous des devoirs et des droits !
Ya Ali Madat mohez nato

* France

@Nato Mohez
On September 16th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad and Bonjour Nato, I would love to read the translation of your above post in "English", please. Thank You. Merci.

* Canada

French comment By Nato
On September 14th, 2010 Alibhai jiwani (not verified) says:

I would love to read the comment.
please can you post english translation if it is possible
thanks

* United States

Translation
On September 15th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

A translation using the net, and therefore In some sentences the essence may be but the emphasis may not be the same.

The disarray (Confusion) of the intellect of an Ismaili

These days, say since the end of the precious month of Ramadan, we're inundated with information with little courtesy, and sometimes belligerent exchanges aimed directly at Alnaz and Tazdin. Please let us all stop this !
We are, we stay and remain brothers and sisters! Link to our Imam of our Bhayat is unwavering! This bond of brotherhood and this Act of allegiance are forever !

We all agree that this legal trial spread with crashing in legal and public circles we is not happy, we confuses and puts us in absolute spoilt! And our sadness is huge and very sincerely, we wish, we pray every day that this painful parenthesis is quickly closed once for all!

This trial has no place to be! This is an unnecessary trial! A that I know, Alnaz and Tazdine does involve not the Foundation, the dogmas of our Tariquah Ismaili! Instead, wanting to use our e - Imam Zaman, they have for a long time with a commitment to honest, dynamic, with an investment of time, knowledge, financial... you want put their know-how and thereby benefiting all of our worldwide of the Farmans Jamat, guidelines, speeches, interventions of Mowlana Hazār Imam! I am very grateful!

The world moves, the world is globalised and after decades of installation in the industrialized world, in Europe, the continent American, Canadian, we are brunt guides, ignorance of ethics not loss of faith but even secular ethics …. the meteoric rise of individualism, self interest egoism, of materialism …. which can today as Mowlana Hazār Imam said, does us proud and to be faithful !

In our professional surroundings, we already are a minority and yet stronger minority among with other Muslims, then in my behavior on a daily basis, I am constantly needing and reading Farmans, and Mowla Bapa speech and often I need these Farmans to guide my thinking! And that with these Farmans! There is no conflict between the intellect and faith, that pluralism, diversity are assets, not a handicap, the ethics of our faith, our practice Esotérique Islam is a quest for spiritual, personal, intimate, personal, and that there should be no conflict between Din and Dounia!

And in my professional life, in constant contact with non believers, agnostic, atheists, Christian, Hindu, Sunni... Muslim israélite etc….. My behavior of a secular person certainly but tolerant, generous, helpful, available for discussions and exchanges without aggressiveness- ismaili... is impeccable and often are a force considered with admiration! and easily . And intellectual honesty I have no hesitation to say that I am an Ismaili guided by my Imam with codes of my Imam time, life. And repeatedly, I say from the texts of some Farmans, speeches, and Mowla Bapa interventions... .and let me assure you that it impresses them! Mowla Bapa has told us we need to be ambassadors of Islam and be proud of our Tariquah which is a way of life and related to peace, tolerance, forgiveness and justice..

I beg, we do not argue, and we do not seek to attack Tazdin and Alnaj. They already have a lot of pressures.
Let's just say all together and very strong. We are not very happy of this display of our dirty laundry in public! To my knowledge, we have not used all the resources, Mukhis Sahebs, Presidents of Councils, ITREB, CAB, ICAB. ... .the sages and former leaders of the Jamat to resolve this differences which for me are still minor! Really, there are many areas where we must rather invest, pooling our energy, our knowledge and according to the Bapa Mowla Hidayats of the various Golden Jubilee see how to resolve the problems of extreme poverty, the quality of life worthy of the seniors.. I return a stay in Tajikistan where thousands of young and old members expect that we épaulions them to take their destiny in hand!

Let us not create unnecessarily exacerbating divisions between us! This trial is sad, very sad! And whatever is the outcome, we remain and will always be by the grace of Mowlana Hazār Imam Your spiritual Children !

And may Mowla keep us on the right track of Siratal Mustaquim!

* United Arab Emirates

To Brother Murad
On September 20th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Brother Murad,
Mohez Nato posted another comment in French, it needs translating (addressed to Kanize and Dilawar on Sept. 15), some people are eagerly waiting for a translation. Maybe you can help again?
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

The confusion of an ismaili
On September 15th, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

Murad, Merci infiniment et toute mon estime, ma gratitude et mes fraternels et sincères Ya ali Madat .
Best regards, mohez nato

* France

ameen
On September 15th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

Ameen

* Canada

Defendant's refusal to show original letters.
On September 13th, 2010 Jenny (not verified) says:

Both the letters were addressed to Mr. Tajdin, he is also unrepresented and was not even present at the cross examination of the Mr. Ospreay.
It was only Mr. Jiwa who was present at this cross examination with Mr. Ospreay. The statement that the defendants are not willing to submitt the original letters seems premature, because none of the letters were addressed to Mr. Jiwa.
For the Affirmation, there were apparently 3 copies signed, so obviously the plaintiff's lawyer must have an original copy.

* Canada

Mr Ospreay
On September 13th, 2010 ZUL (not verified) says:

umed-- we do not want the gist of this, can you post the actual copy of this transcript so tha we may judge ourselves what you are talling about

* Canada

Scroll down..
On September 13th, 2010 heritage says:

The transcript is attached to the article in the 'Attached Document" section. Just scroll down. .

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

"Eid Mubarak"
On September 9th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

"Eid Mubarak" to Umed of Heritage, and all on this Site. May Allah shower His Blessings upon each an every one of us, and may Our Beloved Hazar Imam Bless us with His Zaheri and Batuni Deedar. Ameen.

* Canada

Eid Mubarak to All, and ......
On September 9th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear All.

Ya Ali Madad,

It is amazing that so many on this forum are speculating lef&right claiming this and that about why Hazar imam is not doing this&that and making even such claims that lead others to think that both Dr. Sachedina and Mr. Manji are already guilty, at the same time claiming (or at least writing that they believe in the Noor and) that Mowla knows best.

Why are some of you speculating to the verge of ridicule on this matter and indiscirminately "Hanging the DIRTY LAUNDRY of the whole Ismaili Community out in open for the World to see - as if they are interested - and laugh at us?" Not to mention the direct or indirect inflammatory and degrading comments affecting our beloved Hazar Imam's credibility (by speculating on his health and state of mind etc, constantly quoting Dr. Sachedina and the events of the GJ in London)? I was there and I know and nearly the whole World by now knows what happened, so let it be.

The Imam who has done so much, not only for the Ismaili community (his Murids), but also for millions of the people of Third World, and newly independent developing countries in the former Soviet Union. Peoples of Pakistan & Afghanistan regardless of their cast, creed or religion are heavily indebted to Mowla.

It is nauseating to read some of the comments (regardless of whom their support goes to) and I hope that this frenzy of very intriguing gossip and inuendos and speculations that is feeding all those involved in it recklessly (unknowingly or knowingly) & also feeding the enemies of our Community and our beloved Hazar Imam, with ammunition that in future will come and bite us all i our tails. You count on it.

Mowla is Imam-e-Zamaan, period. Mr. Nagib and Mr. Tajdin and Dr. Sachedina and Mr. Manji and all other Leaders of our Institutions and Jamaats, including us all, are Mowla's Murids (unless some of you have renounced the faith). Many of us have personally offered BAYAT. (I will not go deeper into it). That should be enough for us to have patience and wait.
What we MUST DO (on this HOLY occassion of EID on our doorsteps) is to HUMBLY pray for all our Momin brothers
and sisters and their well being and rehmat & blessings of Mowla upon them and us. May we all be able to Live side by side with all other Human beings on this Earth in Harmony, with Grace of Allah.

Please I beg you to contain yourselves and let time take its course and wait for Mowla to do what He sees fit
in time to come. I am sure Mr. Tajdin and Mr. Nagib (being Murids of Mowla will also agree with me here). Let everybody have HIS/HER day in the court or better still let us hope that this matter will be resolved smoothly outside the court
and very soon.

My GREETINGS to YOU ALL & YOUR FAMILIES AND FRIENDS on THIS HOLY OCCASSION OF EID. &
May Mowla Bless You All with Iman Salamat Good health, Long Life, Lots of Barakat Peace & Happiness at all times.
Amen.

Humbly yours,
Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Thank you
On September 11th, 2010 Ali (not verified) says:

Thanks for your comment. So far the most sensible and intelligent comment

* Canada

I thank you, Sir for you appreciation
On September 12th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Mr. Ali,

Ya Ali Madad.

I thank you for your appreciation.

I wrote what I did, because I fully understand that in the moment of heat people get carried away and we some times (if not very often) react to things without thinking about the long term consequences. I think that that is exactly what his happening in this case.

I pray that this will put an end to all the speculations, inuendos and indirect slander coming from left and right and from people who have really nothing to do with this. We are ALL Mowla's Murids, and we must contain ourselves. Not only for our own sake, but for the sake of generations to come.

This is an extremely detrimental issue, if pushed out of context and it will do severe harm to us (individually) and even
collectively to our community ( not to mention the Embarrassment and pain MOWLA has to go thorugh due to HIS Murids behaving erratically).

Many of us are totally out of line and digress into quoting our secred religious tariqas etc. (as if they are interested)
to the rest of the World and even, by doing so, ridiculing people who they do not even know. We will become, or are in the verge of becoming a laughing stock for the rest of the World (that is interested). As if we need this at this time of
Global turmoil and catastrophes when we should be praying for and helping those affected by
them.

Those involved in this case should be left alone and, I am sure that you will agree, we should all "really" ( I repeat "REALLY") from deep in our hearts pray for "common sense" to prevail and that we "the Murids" do not cause any more pain to our Beloved Hazar Imam.

I am convinced that both Mr. Tajdin and Mr. Jiwa will also agree to what I have to say, them also being Mowla's Beloved Murids.

It would be reassuring to see them appealing to all on this FORUM "NOT to get CARRIED AWAY" and add to all the speculations, idle gossip and let the proceedings take their own course according to the LAW of the Country the case
has been filed in.

I shall let this be my last comment on this issue unless I get forced to write agan. Please forgive
me if I do not reply to any future comments on what I have written by brothers/sisters on this forum.

May Mowla Bless us ALL.Amen.
Best Wishes,
Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

The transcript highlights more compelling reasons
On September 9th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

The transcript highlights more and compelling reasons to be very concerned and like the defendants for institutional Leadership to consider and seek guidance from the Imam

1 Dr Sachedina says he thought Alnaz was involved in printing, distributing and running the website. He did not bother to check or ask Alnaz or meet him. Imagine Dr Sachedina saying that to the Imam. Would Imam agree to file a lawsuit against him ? Would anyone ? Why is the case still being continued against him ? Why treat a murid in this way ? A relevant Farman of our 48th Imam “…Howsoever strong may be the faith (iman) of someone, even then, if he hurts any mu'min, it would be equivalent to having hurt me. Pain inflicted on a momin, strikes in my heart like an arrow. I hold my pious mu'min dearly in my eyes. If anyone hurts such a mu'min, it would be as if he has hurt me in my eyes."
[admin link: Why is Alnaz Jiwa included in the Lawsuit? ]

2 Dr Sachedina says before the lawsuit was filed there were no institutional discussions with the Heads and Boards of LIF, IIS, ITREB ,or ICAB. Dr Sachedina says Imam asked him for leaders to discuss amongst themselves. Dr Sachedina says he and M Manji were involved and that Imam had spoken to M Manji. Knowing this would the Imam file this case. If there were discussions as directed by the Imam would the leaders have agreed with Dr Sachedina and M Manji to file the lawsuit?
[admin link: Initiation of the Lawsuit ]

3 Dr Sachedina says Imam indicated to him at the end or March that a lawsuit should be initiated. Dr Sachedina does not remember or is not saying the exact date. Surely he and M Manji and the lawyers would have that date. The lawsuit was filed on 6 April 2010 which is within 5 working days of the case being initiated

* United Kingdom

Why was affirmation needed at all?
On September 9th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

One thing I keep thinking is that if indeed Hazar Imam is the real plaintiff, why does he need to Affirm that with a notary ? Federal Court would validate that anyways.

And if Hazar Imam ideed initiated the lawsuit why did Dr Sachedina and Bhaloo give affidavits ? They were not needed to.Judge would have just decided the case based on the facts submitted in the statement of claims in accordance to copyrightlaws of the country.

And in the Cross exam they admit that Hazar Imam did not ask them to give affidavits and in fact they did not even show the affidavits to Hazar Imam before filing? It purely seems a defensive move .Going overboard to make it look real?

[admin link: Did the Imam ask Sachedina and Bhaloo to be His witnesses in this case? ]
[admin link: Did Sachedina and Bhaloo discuss their Affidavits with the Imam? ]

Why did President M Manji not give any affidavit if Hazar Imam spoke to him about the lawsuit?

Things really do not make any sense.

Even in secular world before striking a lawsuit the opposite party is always given a written "intention to sue notice" by the lawyer to give a fair chance to the defendant to admit the wrongdoing before the lawsuit strikes .Why would Hazar Imam not do that? It is absolutely impossible Mawla would be so unfair.Totally inconceivable.

Also since the defendants do not even have their lawyers it would be totally inappropriate to continue lawsuit with a full fledge team of best of lawyers that money could buy agaist the two defendant murids who are so miniscule compared to Mawla.

Hazar Imam would never in a million years do that!! It is unethical to lift weapons against unarmed ones!! World Ismaili leadership would neither do that.

It is orchestrated by one or two persons out of personal grudges and abuse of power (I think). Mawla is just letting it play out. He is all knowing in batin!

* United States

You sound Tormented!
On September 9th, 2010 Beleiver (not verified) says:

YAM Bloglaw,

You sound tormented that "The Imam filed the Lawsuit" despite these reasons.

I think you would feel much more at peace if you accepted the evidence that there is no evidence that the Imam filed the Lawsuit, and that it was initiated and filed by just a couple of institutional leaders whose level of respect towards the Noor of Imam can be seen in their treatment of Imam's Farmans.

I am at peace about the Lawsuit, but very much worried about how much of this kind of thinking is trickling down to my kids through institutional programs run by people who don't regularly access, read and research into Farmans to complement their curriculums.

Tormented?????
On September 9th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

My reading of the blog by Bloglow was that he or she did appear to say that the lawsuit was not filed by our beloved Imam. I do not know why you say that he or she is saying that Hazar Imam filed the litigation. Am I missing something?

It seems to me that Bloglow is supporting the defendants !!!!!

* Canada

Did Imam not finish a Farman because he was interupted ?
On September 9th, 2010 Vallimohammed (not verified) says:

During the GJ Farman in London, Imam talked about Leaders not sharing his guidance with the Jamat. Dr Sahedina says the Imam’s chain of thought was interrupted and the Imam clarified the Farman Dr Sachedina after the darbar (to share

If that is true then does the authorised farman released by ITREB includes the additional Farman and guidance which Imam gave to Dr Sachedina afterwards. During the Farman, after this message and the applause, Imam continued his farman. If Imam’s thoughts were interrupted Imam would have continued his message.

Our leaders should not be offended because all murids are equal to the Imam. Like he gave a clear message to the Leaders, Imam in the same farman said he knows that there is a lack of trust between murids in working together and developing alliances. This is also true. Imam then went on to give more guidance to all murids including the leaders.

That farman it contains invaluable guidance which is so very relevant today and in the lawsuit. Leaders and Jamat who are interested should ask for a copy to read.

[admin link: Contradiction: Imam's criticism of Leaders in London]

* India

Vallimohammed's above post
On September 10th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
In my country, when we need to read a farman like the one you mention, we need to make an appointment with the Tariqah Board during business hours and we need to drive there so as to read it...:-). It would take me 35 minutes to drive (one way). It would appear that is easier in India.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

We need Trust, Trust & more Trust
On September 11th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

If you call your Mukhi Saheb and request a particular Farman/s to read, then they should make it available to you in JK or during the day at your conveneince. Imam and the leaders in the lawsuit have re confirmed that farmans are available in all JK's around the world even in remote locations.

Your local mukhi Saheb should be happy and should encourage his Jamat to come to Jamat Khana and read Farmans. This is what Imam wishes and for the Jamat to use Jamat Khanas and the facilities including the Libraries provided for the Jamat.

Mukhi Sahebs and Sahebans should know all members of his Jamat and treat them equally and fairly. They must trust all members of their Jamat. Therefore in cases where for example a murid requests to take to read Farmans to a sick relative at home or in hospital. Mukhi should trust the Murid to do so and bring the farman's back.

If this is not happening in your part of the world then you must first speak to your Mukhi Saheb and then local ITREB together with him/her and ask is there is a reason why they are making it difficult and not trusting members of their Jamat. You should be able to freely talk to your Mukhi Saheb and Sahebans any time.

Mukhi Sahebans have full delegated authority from the Imam. ITREB are there to support, guide and advise them. They are sitting in the position of the Imam and representing the Imam every day. It is Imam's directive and farman that every murid and child must be given access to Farmans and religious education

I hope and pray that when you speak to your Mukhi Sahebs and Sahebans, and request farman/s to read then these will be provised to you wherever you are in the world , in JK's and making it more (not less) convenient. Ameen

Eid Mubarak to everyone.

* United Arab Emirates

Farmans can not betaken
On September 11th, 2010 zul (not verified) says:

Farmans can not be taken home, they are available to read in jk and itreb/council offices

* Canada

Mukhis representing Imam???
On September 11th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Which planet are you living in? Mukhis NO longer act as they represent our Imam, they represent ITREB, and or others (IIS, etc.) and have not much to do with what our Imam wants, other than in passing and when convenient only.

* Canada

Mukhi's are following
On September 12th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Mukhi's are following guidance and directives which they receive through their President and Chairmen of ITREB which they believe are from the Imam and are in accordance with the wishes of the Imam ! I don't believe for a single moment that Mukhi Saheb or Sahebans would knowingly go against Imam's guidance or are not following Imams guidance or not serving the Jamat.

It is up to you, all murids & leaders to make sure that their local Mukhis & ITREB's are aware and that they give acess to farmans in JK's and ITREB offices. That is asssuming that is not so.

It is the responsibility of the Chairman of ITREB, Mukhi's and President to jointly make sure that farmans are accessible, convenient to access and to encourage attendance and reading. Where one or all of them need clarification then they would and do seek guidance and clarification.

I am sure every murid will agree that Mukhis' and their families do give the most in terms of their time in representing the Imam every evening and also during the day. They are volunteers and have work and other related day to day commitments and responsibilities.

* United Arab Emirates

Momin's above post of Sept. 12th
On September 20th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Alas, brother Momin, there is a huge gap between what should be and what is in reality...I am afraid I lean towards Concerned's post of Sept. 11...Perhaps you are a Mukhi or the one you have is an ideal one...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Long drive to read farmans
On September 10th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

May I please ask which country you are speaking about. And can you not read then at jamatkhana?

How big is your jamat.

* Canada

Re: Concerned's question in above post (Sept. 10)
On September 20th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
If your question is based on my comment of Sept. 10 to Vallimohammed, then it is Canada we are talking about.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

"Not to follow Farmans made by previous Imam"?
On September 6th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Jamat knows that Imam makes Farmans according to the time. We should also refer to and remember Farmans made by previous Imam. Farman made by Our Beloved Hazar Imam in Dar-es-Salaam (Tanzania), Upanga Jamatkhana, December 7, 1961, as follows: ..I give to you all on this occasion My special loving blessings and I want you to remember the Farmans of My late Grandfather and My own.......Khanavadan, Khanavadan.

I remember these extracts from Farmans made by Our Beloved Sultan Muhammad, on Health: "Do not consume too much meat, instead eat lots of vegetables, lentils, grains and fish". After so many years are we not told by our health advisors the same?

I think Farmans made by Our Beloved Imams are "very important" and are "Treasure" to us, and should be printed for us to refer to, and remember them. Thank You.

[admin link: Are Previous Imams' Farmans to be Followed? ]

* Canada

NO CONSULTATION WITH IMAM OR WITH INSTITUTIONS
On September 5th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Contradiction: April 2010 Announcement - No Consultation?
Brian Gray tries to establish with Nagib that the April Announcement was written in consultation with all the LIF. Sachedina later contradicts this point of view and establishes that in fact the draft of the second announcement was not circulated to anyone in the leadership before it was read out in Jamatkhanas as being from the LIF, Councils, ITREB etc on the same evening that it was written by a couple of persons including Sachedina.

IN PRACTICE THE HEADS OF IIS, ITREB AND LIF REPORT TO DR SACHEDINA AND THROUGH HIM THE IMAM. THEY ATTEND MEETINGS PERIODICALLY WITH THE IMAM AND DR SACHEDINA OR NOT.
SIMILARLY ITREB COORDINATOR, COORDINATES, BUT IN PRACTICE ALL ITREBS GLOBALLY REPORTS TO HIM AND HE REPORTS TO AND THROUGH DR SACHEDINA TO THE IMAM.
DR SACHEDINA GIVES AND COMMUNICATES DIRECTIONS TO IIS AND TO ITREB ON ALL MATTERS.INCLUDING CONSTITUTIONAL AND INSTITUTIONAL. THIS IS THE INSTITUTIONAL STRUCTURE IN PRACTICE.
SINCE THERE WERE NO CONSULTATIONS AND IN LIGHT OF THE DOCUMENTS AND TRANSCRIPTS NOW IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN. SHOULD ALL LEADERS DO ANYTHING NOW;

WHERE INDIVIDUAL INSTITUTIONS, LEADERS AND THEIR BOARDS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE JAMAT AND ANSWERABLE TO THE IMAM, (ESPECIALLY ITREB, IIS LIF AND IACB/NACB );
1 THEY SHOULD REVIEW ALL THE COURT TRANSCRIPTS, AFFIDAVITS AND DOCUMENTATION AND
2 MEET AND DISCUSS WITH DR SACHEDINA WITH APPROPRATE HEADS/BOARDS AND
3 OBTAIN THE APPROPRIATE INFORMATION CLARIFICATIONS AND DOCUMENTATION
4 CONSIDER AND GIVE THEIR VIEWS AND RECOMENDATIONS AND
5 REACH A CONSENSUS INCLUDING ON SETTLING THIS LAWSUIT IMMEDIATELY AND AS A PRIORITY..
THEN THEY MIUST ALSO :;
1 CONSIDER TO SEEK DIRECT GUIDANCE FROM THE IMAM AND;
2 CONSIDER TO OBTAIN ANY RELEVANT AND APPROPRATE INFORMATION OR DOCUMENTS AND
3 ENSURE CORRECT AND COMPLETE INFORMATION WAS AND IS PROVIDED TO THE IMAM
4 ENSURE ALL REPORTS TO THE IMAM AND INSTITUTIONALLY ARE COMPLETE AND CORRECT

LEADERS I HOPE WILL CONSIDER CAREFULLY THE CONSEQUENCES EFFECT OF NOT BEING PROACTIVE OR OF PROCASTINATION.

* United Kingdom

If rest of the leadership does not act proactive.
On September 5th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

If rest of the leadership does not review the transcripts of the cross examination which very clearly indicates that Dr Sachedina is the main orchestator of the lawsuit and does not take any action to confront him , can we reasonably infer it is a "Yes" men kind of leadership ?

They are only of names and of no action ?
Everyone is only concerned about their seat and not their direct responsibility to Hazar Imam?

I was most disappointed to learn that Authorised Farman books from authorised source are nowhere visible in the near future as against the LIF announcement which assured Jamat of getting one soon.
The work is not even in active progress?
It is already about 9 months since the Huge announcement?
How disappointing?

[admin link: Has an Official Farman Book Publication Been Approved? ]

I am simply shocked with Dr Sachedina's hesitant confessions and his lack of knowledge in faith matters!

Defendants on the contrary came forth more confidently in their cross examination even without any attorneys sitting next to him.
Of course Mawla was sitting next to them in the attorney chair (in Batin )( I believe).

* United States

Chairmens and Presidents are
On September 7th, 2010 Umedali (not verified) says:

Chairmens and Presidents are hopefully all talking internally, seeking clarification, and considering what they believe are the wishes and guidance of the Imam and what is in the best interest of the Jamat. Equally Dr Sachedina will be giving clarification, guidnace and directive from the Imam to the Leadership.

If not you will be right. I hope you are not right. But i f you are right then this case will continue and improvement or change for the better will take time.

We have to pray that the leadership will do what is in the best interst of the Jamat and what are the directives and guidance from the Iman.

* United Arab Emirates

Hmmmm
On September 7th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Intresting to note that Sachedina will relay messages from the imam.... Are we forgetting Hazar Imam's Farman of His messages not being relayed by the leaders to the jamats.

* Canada

Alibhai's above post
On September 6th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, brother Alibhai, I think many of us who have read or will read the transcripts of the cross examinations are and will be shocked, appalled and very hurt...Some of the things said there are totally flabbergasting...
And I do believe, as you do, that Mowla Bapa was by the side of the defendants during that cross examination...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Farmans delivered by the Imam during Darbar are not Farmans?
On September 5th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

We are all challenged with physical and intellectual problems in our lives from time to time. Imam in the London GJ Darbar said there is a lot more which needs to be done. Imam reminded us that it will not be a smooth ride all along. And that there will be a some bumps along the way. And that this is life and we must accept it. Imam also assured us that even though there will be some bumps along the way we will have vehicles that can ride over such bumps easily.
The lawsuit is one of such big bumps and the vehicle is guidance from the Imam (i.e. Farmans/dialogue/conciliation/unity/constitution/institutions, etc. etc.). In any dispute between murids or leaders the vehicle provided by the Imam is dialogue, negotiation, conciliation and arbitration.
Maybe there is another interpretation. If so I hope one of our scholars or Alwaez will respond and help to clarify. They report to ITREB or IIS. The head of all those institutions is Dr Sachedina. Maybe they can also help with the following.

According to a brief reading of the cross examinations, Dr Sachedina believes Farmans delivered by the Imam are not farmans until and unless these are edited and then released and distributed by ITREB. He is head of ITREB. Dr Sachedina says he does not follow Farmans of previous Imam’s. So Dr Sachedina is saying that when our Imam received his Imamat, all Farmans of previous Imam’s are not to be followed by us and there is no continuity of guidance and the tawil and the talim of the final message. Farmans of previous Imam’s are read in Jamat Khana’s, taught in Bait ul ilm’s used by Waezeens etc. This is surely the very essence of our Tariquiah, constitution and Ismailism.! Which Dr Sachedina should know protect practice and follow as head of all ITREB’s and the IIS Boards.

I hope that there is or will be an institutional consultative process and this lawsuit can be settled quickly.

[admin link: Are Farmans to be followed? ]

* United Kingdom

@Bloglaw
On September 6th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

I would like to add to my posting below, Imam Ali's Sermons, Letters and Sayings (Peak of Eloquence Nahjul Balagha), has been published by some Muslim brothers, and I don't understand as to why our previous Imam's Farmans are not be printed for the Jamat. Thank You.

* Canada

@Bloglaw
On September 5th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

As per Dr. Sachedina, Farmans delivered by the Imam during Darbar are not Farmans, until and unless edited and released and distributed by ITREB? How can anyone edit Farmans made by the Imam in the Darbar, are they authorized to do so? All Farmans of previous Imam are not to be followed by us? Our Beloved Hazar Imam has on many occasions referred to Farmans made by His Grandfather (Imam SultanMuhammad Shah). I just don't understand that, Farmans made by previous Imams should not be allowed to be read in JKs., or printed for the Jamat. Our Holy Book Quran, is 1400 years old, and many of us read it. Even in our Du'a we have Surahs from the Quran. Thank you.

* Canada

Dr Sachedina must know
On September 6th, 2010 Concerned Momineen (not verified) says:

Dr Sachedina must know Farmans delivered by the Imam become Farmans when they are first uttered by the Imam. He may have meant Farmans cannot be distributed until after the Imam has reviewed the text and approved it. If so at that level you expect the leader to communicate what they mean even though English may be a second language.

English may be arguably Imam's second language. If Imam is not comfortable in giving Farmans in English, surely he will have no problem to deliver them in French. Nor would the Jamat have any problem if Imam did so. However Imam studied in English, a Harvard graduate and has given guidance to the Jamat on the importance of English, Therefore It is is offensive and very discourteous to say that the Imam may not be saying exactly what he means because he thinks in French and speaks in English. Dr Sachedina should clarify and apologise to the Imam if he has not..

What is also very surprising is a top ex leader Mr A Bhaloo says he is not sure that a farman by the Imam today would prevail over the constitution. He says he is not sure because he is not a constitutional expert. He is a murid and a top leader. He knows the Imam's prerogative & authority. Any farman by the Imam can superceed any earleir Farman on any matter. Hence is Imam e Zaman Imam. It may be A Bhaloo was more concerned about the legality of his answer but then he had the best lawyer guiding him. This question to him could not have been unexpected either. What is wrong in saying yes the Imam can override or superceed any farmans made in the past including any change in the constitution. What is also confusing is that the Imam did not ask him to be a witness. Dr Sachedina did and saw Mr Bhaloo's draft affidavit.

* United Arab Emirates

Darbar Farmans are not farmans??
On September 5th, 2010 Jenny (not verified) says:

So when Hazar Imam says, play dandia and have biriyani and samosas, the Jamat should not rejoice?, I remember in one Golden Jubilee Darbar, the Jamati Leadership had biriyani prepared right after the Farman; Is this then considered Na-Farmani?

Ya Mowla tun Madad Kar, Hakikati samaj baksh.

* Canada

Re: Jenny's above post
On September 6th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ameen, ameen, ameen!!! Anè amnè badhanè dheeraj aap ! Ameen!

* Canada

Response to Yasmin and Bloglaw
On September 5th, 2010 Amin Hussain (not verified) says:

I know you mention the Quran, how about Maula Ali,s Kalam, they are Firmans as well, Imam Mustansirbillah book are also firmans, Imam Jaffer Imam Baqir Firmans are also Firmans and you mentioned Imam Sultan Mohd Shah. The Batin Firmans never change only the Zahir firmans are changed from Imam to Imam, such are migration from a country or performing forms can change and language may change i.e from Gujrati to English for example, not the essence of our religion.

* United States

There is always a crisis before the reforms happen!
On September 5th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Dr Sachedina's cross examination is very disturbing with respect to the Farmans.
I dont think he even knows the defination of a Farman. To say that Hazar Imam's farmans made in Deedars and Darbars are not farmans?How apalling? I cannot believe he said that.Rest of his answers lose credibility and relevance with the believers after that notion expressed by him.
Now we know why Hazar Imam is allowing the law suit to continue.This is his "Leela"
We must be ready for more revelations.

* United States

New Material Posted on the Lawsuit
On September 5th, 2010 heritage says:

Online Book that gathers court materials as well as articles that are currently available for the ongoing 2010 Lawsuit:
Copyright Lawsuit 2010: Online Book of All available Materials

News on cross-examinations:
Copyright Lawsuit: CROSS-EXAMINATIONS confirm that the case is not authentic - 2010-09-04
Copyright Lawsuit: CROSS_EXAMINATIONS Table of Contents - 2010-09-04

Cross examination Transcripts:
2010-08-09 CROSS-EXAMINATIONS for Summary Judgement Motions

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

New material posted on the lawsuit (Sept. 5)
On September 5th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Dear admin,
Thanks a million for posting this material!
Would you know what will happen now ? Can the lawsuit be dropped? Could you possibly find out for all those of who are so concerned over this business and find this waiting period so hard to bear? Can the members of the jamat do anything?
Sorry for burdening you. Thank you again.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

What next
On September 7th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

The jamats should just remain calm, Mawla does not get involved and as a result the cross-examination revealed the true nature of his close and top leaders. He wanted the jamats to know the true nature of his top leaders and more to come. Remain positive.

The next step will be arguing the motions and a judge will review the evidence and make his ruling.

* Canada

Concerned's above post
On September 8th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
With regards to your last sentence in your above post, does it mean that the farman book will have to be brought to the judge???? Or can he make his ruling without examining the farman book?
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

The Book will not be
On September 8th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The Book will not be presented as Exhibit to the Court. The judgement will be given by the Judge without seeing the Golden Edition Farmans. Obviously the Judge will wonder why the Golden Edition has not been presented as it is the subject of the whole case. But I think he will understand that none of the parties are keen on presenting it because this is not the usual literary work and the Imam is not the average person either.

Farman book as evidence
On September 8th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

The photo of the book and index has been filed, as has photos of all earlier books, the book might be shown to the judge without making it an exhibit just to give the judge an understanding of what is the subject of the litigation. I think this is how the case might proceed

* Canada

Reply of Librarian Umed and of Concerned
On September 9th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you to both of you for replying to my question re: whether the farman book will have to be shown to the judge. I do hope both of you are right and that it will not be "dissected" by the judge.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Human being is an Ashrafe Makhlukat
On September 3rd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

@Mr Allaudin Alibhai in answer to your comment of Aug 31st

We as Human beings are endowed with intellect and brain.
In any confusing situation it is going to run and think critically which is important and vital.
Healthy dialogue and dissecting the situation to search for the truth is a God given gift and a mandate.
Mawla is all knowing and Almighty yet he has always encouraged healthy dialogues.
I do not think there is anything wrong in having a dialogue as long as we do not call names or disrespect anyone.
Since Jamat never gets to express their emotions and opinions regarding leadership this kind of forum should be wecomed by good leaders if they are conscious of their performance and want to do what is best all the time for Jamat and Hazar Imam.
Leaders are not the only ones who offer time and money there are plenty of hidden Sevadhari murids who are not seen with everyone's eyes but Mawla feels them with his heart.(Mawla has often said that in his Firman).
Just because someone gives of time and money it does not automatically qualify one to become proud or negligent.
Not even the ones who give of their knowledge which is a even bigger gift than wealth.
Mawla acknowledges the honesty, love and sincerity with which the service is offered however small it may seem to someone.

* United States

Mr. Alibhai Jiwani's answer to my comment of Aug 31
On September 4th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Mr. Alibhai Jiwani,

I am really taken aback by what you say in the answer to my comment.

You mention confusing situation.
There is nothing confusing in this case.

A case has been filed and it is proceeding through the court with the
defendants presenting their case and affidavits, proofs on the
signature etc., and the
plaintiff's team submitting affidavits etc.

What is there to discuss or search? We will not find any answers
until the case has been fully heard in the court or dismissed
or a settlement outside the court done.
It may even be done behind the closed doors.
Fueling speculations leads to idle GOSSIP and BOGOTRY.

As far as seva and funds are concerned, I have never said that
only the Leaders of the community make financial
contributions.
Please, I request you to read what I have written, a bit carefully
and see if I have really said that.

If you feel that the Jamat never gets a chance to express opinions,
then you should send a petition signed by several members of the
Jamat (who are not happy) to Mowlana Hazar Imam to that
effect rather than "hanging the Ismaili Community's dirty
laundry in public" and having a go at the whole Ismaili Leadership
without any specific names which you should present to Mowlana
Hazar Imam and not to this FORUM.

This FORUM has no mandate to solve your problems with
the Leadership, but it can inflame and invoke slander
and gossip and unfair accusations towards the leaders
who are (probably) not on this forum to defend themselves.
Some of the appointees of Mowla do have that mandate and
perhaps your problems with the leaders can be solved through
mediation by them. Perhaps you should get in touch with the
Leaders directly. They are surely listed in the Ismaili
Directory, or are they not? Let us hope so.

Do you really think and believe that I don't know that there ARE plenty of
hidden sevadaris who serve silently the year round, day and night?
ARE YOU the ONLY ONE WHO KNOWS IT?
ARE YOU THE JUDGE OF WHAT SHOULD BE and WHAT SHOULD
NOT BE WELCOME BY THE LEADERS?
Is it not MOWLA who decides what the Leaders should do or not do?
Isn't MOWLA who judges and rewards the sevadaris?

Mowla may give a Title to someone you and I may feel does not deserve
the Title, but it is only Mowla who decides and knows whose seva has
been greater or smaller. He, I agree with you, loves and blesses
every sevadari; and (may I add) every momin.

I also agree with you that "Mawla acknowledges the honesty, love and
sincerity with which the service is offered however small it may seem
to someone". No question about that. I am with you there and
that is the very point I am trying to make to you, but you contradict
yourself by blaming the Leaders.
Is the service of the Leaders (even if it is very trivial in your opinion)
not accepted by Mowla? Do you mean Mowla is not happy with it?
Has Mowla expressed it to you or anyone whom you trust
and then that person has conveyed it to you?
In that case, please let us know who that Leaders is, with
whom Mowla is not satisfied.
It is important to have facts.
Will it help if you hang(not physically) the Leaders publicly?

Please do not generalise and paint every LEADER as a proud
and negligent person. It is not fair on them. Does not Mowla
feel their service and them in His Heart too? Are they not also
Mowla's Murids like you and I?

My 2nd point is that we have no mandate to speculate on the
subject of the Suit filed by Mowla and what the defendants have
presented to the court so far, as far as this case is concerned.
And, therefore, we would be doing ourselves and the community
at large and Mowla and the defendants a disfavour by speculating
about this. That is why I request everybody to wait and see.

Finally, Sir, my name is spelled with one L (i.e. Alaudin) and not
two Ls.

My prayers for MERCY of Allah and Mowla's Blessings on
all of us. Amen.

Thank you,

Humbly Yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Times have changed. Imam
On September 3rd, 2010 Valimohhamed (not verified) says:

Times have changed. Imam has given guidance on the coming changes since 1986. Leaders have talked the talk but need to also walk the talk of dialogue. collective inclusion, meritocracy, & pluralism.within the Jamat. Sadly this case also highlights a need and what is needed from the Leaders and the Jamat.

* Singapore

Constructive and disciplined required in our criticism
On September 3rd, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat, Alibhai Jiwani! Mental power and common sense go hand in hand, provided one is able to understand the rational of this life. It is not difficult to comprehend and understand a conflict and why it makes us so uncomfortable. The conflict can be resolved and the disagreement can be managed. A calm mind will not react to any unfortunate situation without the assessment. Any tough situations can be effectively resolved by effective communications.

Any Ismaili Muslim who wants to perform the seva; he/she can participate in seva. The only requirement will be to come forward to render seva in any capability. Here we have to understand that we have to follow the criterion and prerequisite and the type of seva one is interested to perform. The institutional leaderships are normally by appointment; this does not mean one has to be well off to warrant a seat in our institution. Mowlana Hazar Imam will accept seva of any Ismaili Muslim when the seva is offered with sincerity, love, loyalty, and devotion.

I personally think that we should be constructive and disciplined with our criticism. Any kind of condemnation, denunciation, and accusation does not suit us; simply because Mowlana Hazar Imam has said in His Pronunciation: “NOBODY IS PERFECT EXCEPT ALLAH.” Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

It is my pleasure to see the
On September 4th, 2010 K Punja (not verified) says:

It is my pleasure to see the respect given by everyone in your discussions on this website. What strikes me most is why the leaders are not meeting their 2 brothers together with the local Mukhi Sahebans, Chairmans and Presidents ? It is very sad indeed that when you can do something and you should do it, you do not do it. My prayers are for everyone and to the website management we appreciate.

* India

Look for major news update
On September 2nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Look for major news update on this subject within a couple of days here on this page.

Re: upcoming updates
On September 4th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Many of us are anxiously waiting, waiting, and waiting...It is sometimes distressing that, despite updates and the hopes these bring in their wake, we do not seem to be any closer to a resolution or settlement than we were in, was it April??? These are really trying times for some us...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

I am looking, waiting and
On September 4th, 2010 vallimihammed (not verified) says:

I am looking, waiting and anxious.

* India

Prayers of Great Night
On September 2nd, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

The Great Night of Laital-Ul-Qadr:

As it was advised me and as it was my sincere resolution, I increased and recited many prayers in form of Salah, made Zikr, seeking forgiveness from My Lord! For all my brothers and sisters around the world, I pray Allah and Mowla Bapa to fulfill their needs…. And keep all us in the right way of Siratal-Mustaquim!
And among the things and wishes, I done prayers, done long and sincere dua’s for the end of this sad, very sad lawsuit! Ramadan is the month of prayers, of pardon, of generosity, tolerance…! And to all Angels who listened to me this night, I tool “Please, tell to Sachedina, to Bhaloo, to Tazdin, to Alnaj the importance of brotherhood in ismailism, and they do not ignore the sincere wishes, prayers of many, many ismailis around the world that it is urgent, really necessary that together, they first meet, speak with serenity… with the help of Mukhis Saheb, Chairmen and Leaders of different Institutions and together they humbly ask for a Mulaquat with Mowla Bapa and stop this sad lawsuit! And we all around the world, with Itreb, Mukhi Saheb helps… we all decide to a special night of Sataro for this!
Our community does not need this lawsuit! Mowla Bapa loves His Murids and it is our deepest prayers that He will arrange in His office this inutile [futile], catastrophic dispute! Mowla is merciful!

May Allah accept my prayers
Ya Ali Madat, mohez nato
Ps I am very sorry for my broken english

* France

Your "Prayers of Great Night"
On September 7th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Sir,

Ya Ali Madad.

It is very Noble of you to pray for the good of all.

I hope and I am sure that Mowla is listening to you and us all
and in due course he will take the actions as he sees fit on
this matter.
We have to be patient.

Meanwhile, my spiritual brother, keep up with your prayers
and kepp up with the noble thoughts of good to happen
to all.

May Mowla Bless you and your family and friends with lots of Barakat
Good Health, Long Life, Peace and Happiness at all times. Amen.

My prayers are there for everybody too.

Best Wishes,

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Le mot ci-dessus de Nato Mohez
On September 3rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Votre message est tout à fait compréhensible; n'ayez crainte, on vous aura compris. Votre prière semble venir du fond de votre coeur. Ça fait des mois qu'on prie pour la résolution de toute cette affaire ! Espérons que la magie de Lailat ul-Qadr résolve cette crise. Ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Ameen.
On September 2nd, 2010 Vallimohammed (not verified) says:

Ameen.

* India

Affidavit of Dr. Shafik Sachedina etc...
On August 30th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad folks.

I bumped into the affidavit today and thought that it would be good for all to read this affidavit.
The link to it is:

Affidavit of Sachedina

I hope that Mowla and his Murshids will come to conclusion soon.

Meanwhile, we should pray and have patience and abstain from
writing speculative articles that only lead to more confusion
and perhaps even pain to some people closely involved.

I am of the opinion that we have to respect all the Murshids of Mowla
and all living creatures on this earth, and leave it to Mowla to deal
with this.

Having said the above, I feel that there is absolutely no harm in
keeping up to date with events of this case, as it has already
hit the headlines here on Ismaili Net.

Seek, find and be informed.

Best Wishes,

Humbly,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

A true momin's faith will always undergo testings!
On August 29th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Alibhai Jiwani narrated an event related to Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi who has to suffer obstacles and hardships just after his arrival at Cairo and during his initial stay there at the hands of very senior leaders of Imam Mustansir Billah. There is no indication in the history that the Imam intervened or that he castigated his leaders for inhuman treatment of his future Hujja. Though later on, after a couple years or so, he was granted highest posts of Hujja as well as vizier of Fatimid caliphate; both these posts he held until his death in later part of 1078.

Exactly similar hardships and obstacles were also experienced by Hasan-bin-Sabbah during his later part of the stay at Cairo. The event runs as follows:

Hasan-bin-Sabbah arrived in Cairo early in 1078 when Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi was vizier. Hasan-bin-Sabbah was well received by Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi and stayed there for 3 years and visited Imam Mustansir Billah at least once when it was revealed to him by the Imam himself that his successor would be Nizar. Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi died in later part of 1078, and all powerful Badr al Jamali succeeded him as vizier, who became jealous of Hasan-bin-Sabbah and banished him from Cairo. Imam did not intervene in this case as well.

We all know that later on this same wonderful Ismaili hero and missionary single handedly planned and succeeded in establishing Nizari Ismaili rule in northern Iran( at and around Almut)

We can not understand every action of Imams. Why? The simple reply is: we, human being are gifted with only limited intelligence( Aqle juzz). And only for this reason that most of the historians could not understand many decisions and actions of our Imams Al Hakim bi Amr Allah (16th Imam) and Rukn al Din Khurshah( 27th Imam) and hence heavily criticized those decisions and actions.

Excellent article
On September 7th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Our Imam has urged us to read our history, and your article is good. I urge you to write short articles (easier to read and remember) on such historical points.

* Canada

Re: above post of Kasamali
On September 4th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, in those remote historical cases of the dais mentioned in the posts (Hassan bin Sabah...) the Imams did not step in or get involved in any apparent way.
And it is the same in recent history: it is said that the leader who banned the distribution of sukhrit in the London High profile Jamat Khana (was it to keep the carpet clean?) (I don't know if sukhrit is distributed in other Jamat Khanas of London) was never asked to come back on his decision; the same goes for the leader in Canada (Vancouver) who, in the nineties was it? banned the distribution of any juraa with any nuts in them (almonds, cashews) out of "compassion" for one child who had a severe allergy to peanuts (and peanuts were not usually in Khushyaali suko mèvo juraa): it does not appear that that decision maker was called to attention. So, to this day, the only time Canadian mureeds have "suko mèvo" is when other mureed who have come back from deedar elsewhere than in Canada and share the suko mèvo they received at that deedar with their family and friends...
And the leadership wants the jamat to BELIEVE that Hazer Imam is the one suing a mureed for doing his best to allow the jamat to have access to His farman...And the saddest thing is that, because there is such deficit of religious knowledge in the jamat (and the leadership), most of the jamat does believe this incredible, false information...This is indeed the age of mass-misleading!
Ya Mowla, tun amaara badha upar rahèm karto rahèjè!! Ameen.

* Canada

Sad
On August 30th, 2010 Amin Hussain (not verified) says:

It makes me sad to see the entire case is going, I have visited this site many years ago to do some research and was able to get the information easily and I appreciated that while the same information was not available from other sources. I ponder on the reasons why this is happening, and came up with some reasons will share with everyone:
a) Deficyit of Religious Knowlege among our leaders, they are highly educated in a secular education while limited deep knowledge of our religion.
b) Intellectual vanity among some highly educated leaders and jamati members, not humble at all.
c) Lack of communication between the Jamat and leadership, it would help if they organize some meeting similar to town hall meetings.
d) Our leaders are good individually but not as net work.
e) The Firman are only read for 5 minutes in JK and are the few and same ones over and over
f) The sharing of meaning of the Firmans are prohibited and not allowed.
g) We have always been influenced by the outside sources whether was the time of Cairo, Almut or even now, Hazar Imam always said build bridges not the cross them.
h) We should always learn to resign from the position if we cause difficulty for the Jamat or the Imam and move a side so new leaders can take place and does not matter whether we right or wrong, this happens in all civilized western society and we should learn from them.
I) The Jamati leaders should go through management training in this field and not use their management style used in Corporate world which is ruthless at times.
J) Do not look down to people who are less educated in leadership or Jamat

And I am not saying that we are perfect as human beings, only God is perfect bet we should try our best.

* United States

Above post of Amin Hussein
On September 1st, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for your post, brother Amin Hussein: it is heartwarming to know that at least one more person knows and remembers that Hazer Imam said to build bridges BUT NOT TO CROSS THEM.
And I could not agree more about your first point, i.e. the deficit in religious knowledge; the least evidence of this is that the leadership (and 95 % of the jamat alas) still has not realized that Hazer Imam could never sue a murid whose bayyat He has accepted. If we had basic religious knowledge, none of the other shortcomings you pointed out in b, c, d, e, h, and j would arise...
I hope that many of us will pray tonight (Lailat ul-Qadr) for the resolution of this unprecedented crisis according to Mowla Bapa's wish. Insh'Allah.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Abdullah
On September 3rd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

I do not understand the phrase "BUT NOT CROSS THEM" with respect to bridges.
The bridges are made for back and forth crossing or communicating.
Did you mean "not break them?"

* United States

Answer to Alibhai Jiwani's above question
On September 3rd, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Only Hazer Imam knows what He had meant when He had said that sentence in a farman made in Tanzania, was it in
1988 ? in Moshi, I think (if you have the KIM perhaps you could look up in the index to confirm the date and the city...). All I know, brother Alibhai, is that each one of us, we all have the freedom (and alas the terrible responsibility!) of interpreting the farman of the Imam of the Time, and SO LONG AS WE ARE SINCERE in our interpretations we are not "blamed" for any errors we make in our interpretation...So, the way I interpret that sentence may differ from that of someone else, and no one can say that he or she has the right interpretation...And, to answer your last sentence and question, no, I do not believe He had meant "not break them". I would not dare to write here the meaning I give to the words "Do not cross them", for fear of being unable to express myself adequately and therefore of being misunderstood... I hope you forgive me, brother Alibhai.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Building Bridges - Extracts from Farman
On September 4th, 2010 Jenny (not verified) says:

March 17, 1981 Kisumu Kenya,
" There has been a tendency in some parts of the Third World when the Imam has said, Yes, you may build bridges, not only to build the bridges but to walk across them. This is not what the Imam has said. I have said, if you seek to build bridges, I have nothing against your building bridges. But I have also said, don't cross them, unless there are special reasons to do so..."

* Canada

Re: Jenny's above post
On September 8th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you, sister Jenny, for finding for us the paragraph from which the phrase "do not cross them" is taken.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Answer to Abdullah and Alibhai
On September 4th, 2010 Amin Hussain (not verified) says:

I know this question is not pose to me, however I thought share it, Imam Sultan Mohd Shah once said that read my Firmans, interpret them and share the interpretation with other ismailis, having said that in my understanding of the Do Not Cross the Bridge does not mean break the bridge but just as in the worldly sense there are bridges between countries and if one crosses the bridge is only allowed to stay as a visitor and must return back to his our country similarly one meaning of this Firman is to learn to respect other religions, cultures. people but remain strong to your own ismaili faith and to your Imam of the time.

* United States

@ Alibhai Jiwani
On August 29th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

When Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi was given audience by the Imam Mustansir Billah the first time, he was transfixed for sometime as he experienced bright light of prophet hood and of Maula Ali. Although all others presents there did not experienced anything at all. This was nothing but ‘Noorani Deedar’ granted only to Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi by the Imam Himself.
A similar event took place during 8th Avatar, Lord Krishna, to Arjuna (one of the five Pandu brothers) at the battlefield. Here too, all others present in the battlefield saw nothing unusual. They just saw that Krishna was talking to Arjuna.

Hurting a Momin is the same as hurting the Imam!
On August 29th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Any Momin who hurts another momin is hurting the Imam and should go with humility & beg forgiveness from that momin. 105 years ago the Imam also directed his murids never to speak ill of any Momin OR any other person
[Farman Mubarak - Kalam-i Imam-i Mubin, Farman #125, Nairobi, 06-10-1905]
"Keeping the tongue pure means never to backbite or speak ill of any mu'min or any other person. By this way, keep your tongue pure. If it ever happens that you come to know of any shortcoming in any mu'min, then do not, by judging him, reveal that shortcoming by your tongue. To judge any person or any mu'min is not your job.

If your heart (dil) assures you that you do back'bite, that you do betray someone, that you do speak lies, then restrain your heart from doing such evil acts. You go at once to the person whom you have betrayed, whom you have back'bitten, about whom you have spoken ill. Whether that person is in jamatkhana or anywhere else, go there, and with humility and open-heart confess your sin of betrayal, of enmity and of any type that you may have committed, and beg forgiveness from him.

Howsoever strong may be the faith (iman) of someone, even then, if he hurts any mu'min, it would be equivalent to having hurt me. Pain inflicted on a momin, strikes in my heart like an arrow. I hold my pious mu'min dearly in my eyes. If anyone hurts such a mu'min, it would be as if he has hurt me in my eyes."

* United Kingdom

Did Imam file the lawsuit!
On August 28th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Thank you Believer. It would be of interest if you can list your additional reasons. I may agree with you after I read the transcripts of the cross examinations when available.
Temporal activities are conducted in many organizations by powers of attorney and delegated authorities. In Imam's case as he is extremely busy he gives delegated authority and powers of attorney. So is Dr Sachedina who also runs a substantial organization in addition to heading all the Institutions. Imam cannot also cannot physically personally sign all letters because of the sheer volume of them. This would be by delegated authority & maybe electronically. May be this is also so in this case.
Can in Canada someone with a Power of attorney initiate and file a lawsuit in someone’s else’s name? Would lawyers act ?. This doesn’t not explain why anyone would sign or need to sign-use the Imam's personal signature of course. Unless they had delegated authority to do so.
Is it possible that the Imam was given a report which was factually incomplete or incorrect in which the leaders and the LIF all agreed & recommended that a lawsuit should be filed. Imam may have agreed based on that report and facts. Imam knowing of course and knowing also that the leaders will know after the lawsuit and will come back to the Imam. Imam is maybe therefore waiting for them to give him a full, correct and complete report and recommendations. Even though Imam knows, and may have read all the legal documents and aware of some of the comments on this and other websites.

* United Kingdom

Did Imam File The Lawsuit?
On September 6th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

YAM Bloglaw,

I think in light of the cross-examination transcripts, all your above questions to me have been amply answered.

Did the Imam file the lawsuit?
On August 28th, 2010 Amin (not verified) says:

Here are more reasons why the Imam may not have been the instigator of this lawsuit:

The Imam is a sophisticated "player" in the world scene and knows the power of both positive and negative media. Would he have risked filing a lawsuit before a Canadian judge, with all the uncertainty that the judge could potentially be biased against Muslims or the Imamat? Or knowing that the lawsuit would bring up issues of Ismaili thariqah for all the world to debate? Or that the Imam would be required to file affidavits and be cross-examined about the Divine source of his firmans?

I don't think so? And if you do, you underestimate the Imam.

* Seychelles

Did the Imam file the lawsuit? (Gossip/Speculation)
On August 30th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Sir,

You are out of order and just giving idle gossips a momentum
only worthy of contempt, by speculating on the Divinity
of our beloved Hazar Imam.

However, I hope that you have read the affidavit of Vazier Dr. Shafik Sachedina
Sachedina Affidavit and exhibits.pdf

and also all the material pertaining to this case published on
internet by both sides.

Best Wishes,

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Did Imam know?
On August 28th, 2010 Abdul (not verified) says:

@Bloglaw

What if the Imam does not know everything? What if the Imam is like the the Prophet Mohamed, having no divine powers, except as a Messenger of Allah?

What if the Imam is the best Guide at all times, but needs to use the same administrative networks as other leaders, to run the Jamaat?

Will that help to explain many of the issues in this lawsuit?

* Seychelles

Question to Beleiver by
On August 29th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Question to Beleiver by Bloglaw was I think what additional information or reasons were & should have been communicated to Leaders and the Imam when or before the lawsuit was instigated ?

* United Arab Emirates

@Bloglaw
On August 28th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

We all can understand the meaning of delegated responsibiity to Dr Sachedina.
In that case he should have just honestly agreed or given affidavid that he is authorised to sign for Hazar Imam and he has signed for Hazar Imam on his directives
This would be completely acceptable.
Hazar Imam when asked or even if not asked if indeed Lawsuit was initiated by his direct approval would have readily said he authorised the leader to sign for him . Then all this questions of forgeries would be totally irrelevant!
If Hazar Imam authorised any leader to sign for him due to whatever reason no one will ever Q it.
But court must know that.

* United States

Imam does not interfere with
On August 27th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Imam does not interfere with choices we make but guides his murids. If this was not so neither our Imam’s nor we as murids would have any trails, tribulations, trepidations or choices which are all necessary for our material an spiritual development and advancement respectively .

It is fundamental that there is no conflict between our faith and our intellect. Imams have given us guidance on how all murids can do so. When seeking clarity about particular matters of faith and temporal matters where there are conflicts questions & dialogue are discouraged and conformity is encouraged and is practiced.

On temporal matters this stifles debate, dialogue and development of our potential as individuals and collectively. If creativity, guidance & change are not embraced then like in the last dacade or more, we are more likely to be educating the Jamat and especially our future leaders away from rather than towards intellectual development.

In the constitution the Imam has states clearly that Imam continues the Tawil and Talim of the final message (Quran) and to guide the murids. Imam also goes on to specify guidance of spiritual matters of faith to the path of spiritual enlightenment AND of temporal matters of the intellectual development of our potential.

(B) In accordance with Shia doctrine, tradition, and interpretation of history, the Holy Prophet (S.A.S.) designated and appointed his cousin and son-in-law Hazrat Mawlana Ali Amiru-l-Mu'minin (Alayhi-s-salam), to be the first Imam to continue the Ta'wil and Ta'lim of Allah's final message and to guide the murids, and proclaimed that the Imamat should continue by heredity through Hazrat Mawlana Ali (A.S.) and his daughter Hazrat Bibi Fatimat-az-Zahra, Khatun-i-Jannat Alayha-s-salam).

(F) Historically and in accordance with Ismaili tradition, the Imam of the time is concerned with spiritual advancement as well as improvement of the quality of life of his murids. The Imam's Ta'lim lights the murids' path to spiritual enlightenment and vision. In temporal matters, the Imam guides the murids, and motivates them to develop their potential.

Regarding this lawsuit, would this lawsuit have been filed if the Imam had known the following;

1 LIF were not consulted, nor ITREB or IIS, as Boards (They were briefed after the lawsuit was filed according Dr S S’s affidavit),
2 Many Farman books had been published since 1992 before this Farman book in 2009. The leaders and the Jamat was aware for 18 years.
3 Farman books were distributed only to Ismailies.
4 Alnaz was not approached before the lawsuit was filed,
5 The historical and current full seva profile of the defendants and their families (Incl. Maji Mukhi Saheb)
6 All possible avenues and opportunities for internal conciliation, compromise and settlement were not fully explored and fully exhausted.

Dr Sachedina will have briefed the Imam and there will be an internal report/summary prepared before the letters were issued and before the lawsuit was filed. This would have appropriate recommendations and an impact review of a lawsuit. Was this a consultative process and the report - minutes reflected that process. In this consultative process would any leader have recommended to file a lawsuit if they had known all the above. (Head of IIS, ITREB, President of Canada, Kenya and LIF - as a body ).

* United Kingdom

Logical Fallacy?
On August 27th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

Dear Bloglaw,

Your argument would be much more clear and palatable if, instead of saying:
"would this lawsuit have been filed if the Imam had known the following",
You would instead say:
"The Imam obviously did not file this Lawsuit because of the following"

And then, all 6 points above make sense, and you can probably add dozens more credible reasons that would support this point of view.

It is becoming clearer that the Imam is not intervening because he doesn't need to - whoever is the real plaintiff is discrediting himself more and more as time goes by.

What went wrong?
On August 27th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

In case of unprecedented event if Hazar Imam indeed was (hypothetically )angry on these 2 murids who printed firmans without written permission and decided to punish them by striking a lawsuit in the Canadian court room, What must our religious institutions and Jamat should have done?
Should we not all the boards and entire leadership and Jamat get to gather and present a plea "Mehmani" to Hazar Imam to please not get angry on these 2 of his spiritual children and let us find an amicable solution and Mawla please forgive? Mehmani works like magic in my life!
At the same time if Jamati Mukhi of respective JK would have spoken with these 2 individuals like parents and dissuaded them to stop distributing firman because our Mawla is upset , I am sure they would have stopped.Jamati Mukhis sometimes forget they have such a previlaged and impressive position with true devotees!
If that did not work how if LIF would have made a big anouncement in the world jamatkhanas to make one Muskilasan tasbih or satada bakshamni Tasbih for resolution of the situation to alleviate any pain to Mawla ?, If not 15 million, 1 million tasbihs of Muskilasan invoking Ali would have instantly gone into action.Do you know what is the power of this?
Mawla is rahem rahimi!
He would have forgiven and listened to our plea for sure! And he would have smiled and thought to himself at least my golden jubilee firmans are working on my murids!! Good job!
Have we lost faith in our very own powerful "Ya Ali tu rahem kar , Ya Mawla tu fazal kar" tasbih? I can understand we do not have faith in our own Arbitration board which is for this purpose but to lose faith in the very essense of our faith which is invokation of Ya Ali in case of difficulty is bypassing a big important step.
I am sure if Dr Sachedina would have presented this situation first to aTarika board Chairman he would have recommended as a first remedy before a lawsuit which involves way too much.. of everyone including our Imam
So have we failed as a Jamat and Leaders or these 2 insane individuals?
We want to shift the guilt to these 2 fellows and call them names to free ourselves of any responsibility?
Tomorrow I will write a small story how a leader cooled down 47th Imam's anger and obtained the blessings for his entire generation!

* United States

Mr Jiwani; You are right
On August 28th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Mr Jiwani; You are right except that;

Imam has created institutions, Boards and the Constitution encompassing both the spiritual and the material. These are all conduits the Imam has chosen through & by which ALL Imam’s guidance and directives are disseminated and implemented. Therefore these Institutions are the very essence of Ismailism & our tariquah.

Imam has entrusted leaders with responsibilities for these institutions. If any of the leaders does not follow guidance or have faith in any of the institutions or the Arbitration Board, then in fact they do not have any faith in the Imam’s Institution. Therefore it follows that they do not have faith in Imam’s guidance or directives.

I am sorry but to that extent I disagree with you.

Did Dr Sachedina really not inform, consult or involve the local Mukhi Saheban’s, or the local Tariqah Boards/council members for the areas where the 2 murids are living ? He surely must have and if not this must be an exception ?

I agree, hope and pray that we should all be praying for the leaders and the 2 murids.

* United Arab Emirates

Mr. Jiwani; You are right
On August 31st, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Shafik Sachedina is also a Murid and a human being.

There are times when we all make mistakes or do not ralise that
disregarding even trivial matters can, in future, dire
consequences.

I have great respect for our leaders, although I am one the very
open critics and say what I think and also take them on.

Let us remember, that all the sevadaris devote a lot of their time
and some even make great financial sacrifices for the benefit
of our Jamats internationally and Mowla is indeed very happy
with them.

What we should now do, is give Dr. Sachedina a chance to
defend himself in the court, with regard to accusations
by the defendants, and also give the defendants a
chance to in orderly manner go through this case
and wait for the verdict.

It is not at all appropriate that many of us are speculating
"this and that" and also put "what if" questions when
no one really (except for Mowla) knows what the real
truth is.

We should all abstein from SPECULATIONS.

Let us pray, as many have said, for all involved
and may Mowla Bless all of us. Amen.

Thank you.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Mowla is happy, not angry at
On August 28th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Mowla is happy, not angry at these 2 Murids. Nothing is out of hands. We can see that Mowla needed these documents, forgery expertise etc.. to be in the legal system so that the people forging His signature will think twice in the future before doing illegal activities. Once all the documents, Mowla wants, will be in Court, then only He may intervene or even let the legal system issue a judgment that the defendants were right and the Imam never allowed or instructed this lawsuit.

Do Mr Tajdin or Mr Alnaz stand to gain anything ?
On August 26th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

The defendants are clearly not defending to win or to make a profit. They are seeking guidance direct from their Imam because for 18 years they have been publishing and distributing their books of farmans to Ismailies. Not for making profit but for love and devotion for their Imam and for the the jamat.

And, they believe they have direct permission from their Imam to do so. They also beleive it is the Imam's wish for his farmans which are delivered for his murids to be available to all his murids. Leaders have also been aware for 18 years. Mr Tajdin had meetings with the leaders & the IIS regarding other related publications. Mr Tajdin published his latest book of all farmans in 2009. He offered 2000 copies free of cost to the Jamat. Mr Jiwa also did not make a profit from distributing the books. The books were distributed to Ismailies. The motive was not to make a profit but the love and devotion for their Imam.

Mr Tajdin has a website where he shares invaluable resource and knowledge which are free, not commercially sponsored and which have been used by many leaders, scholars, murids and Waizeens. This requires considerable amounts of time, money, resources, and knowledge. This is again not done to make a profit but for love and devotion for the Imam.

Mr Tajdin, Mr Jiwa and their families are known sevadari’s, appointees, and are now having to make great (perhaps the ultimate) economical, social and emotional sacrifices out of love and devotion for their Imam.

There is therefore no gain or profit materially for these 2 devotees of the Imam, or for their sevadari families? May their prayers and their seva be blessed. Ameen

* United Arab Emirates

lawsuit
On August 28th, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

Dear Sisters, Brothers, Ya Ali Madat,
In a few days, we all celebrate Lailat-Ul-Qadr or Angels Night, a real opportunity to all momins who are sad, very sad and clouded by this lawsuit to pray and humbly ask for Mowla Rehmat. And we all must made special prayers blessed by Mowla for Tazdin, Jiwa, and their sevadari families and also for Sachedina and Bhaloo.
I repeat again, in my profound “intime conviction”, I do not believe Mowla wishes this lawsuit! I believe also that for a true momin, his faith will always undergo testings! So Jiwa and Tazdin, be strong, keep solid your faith and devotion to Mowla Bapa!
For all ismailis connected with this interesting Website (many thanks to Umed and his group), I wish to share with you all that I have written last night for my french speaking ismailis friends for preparing this Great Night! And be assured that I will pray for the all ismailis around the world and ask to Angels to protect Tazdin and Jiwa!

La nuit des Anges ou Lailat-Ul-Qadr pour les Bhatinis !
Les musiciens connaissent bien ce phénomène. Voici deux diapasons absolument identiques : on touche l’un d’eux, il vibre, et l’autre qui n’a pourtant pas été touché, entre aussi en vibration. On dit qu’il y a résonance.
Eh bien, un phénomène analogue se produit avec l’être humain : s’il arrive à accorder son être physique et son être psychique aux vibrations les plus subtiles de l’Univers, il peut atteindre les Puissances Célestes pour faire un échange avec elles et recevoir ainsi aide et réconfort.
“Meditation is a vehicle that allows us to contact our deepest spiritual core or center, which is the essence of our being”…..” The key to inner peace and happiness lies within us. Meditation takes us on a journey inside ourselves to seek a connection with the Divine essence. This practice, if sufficiently strong and dedicated, has the potential to bring about spiritual enlightenment, which arises when we understand the deeper mystery and meaning of life”. (Mowlana Shah Sultan Mohammad Shah- Paix éternelle sur Lui).
Oui, c’est une façon de communiquer : on peut entrer en méditation, nous pouvons parler et on nous entend ! « Je suis toujours Présent et Je suis toujours avec vous » (Mowlana Hazar Imam) ! (Le Bhayat nous unit à vie à Lui n’est ce pas !).
Lors de cette Nuit des Anges, nous pouvons même toucher certains courants de forces dans l’Espace pour les faire venir jusqu’à nous. Dès que nous connaissons cette loi, nous comprenons combien il est important de nous dépasser, de nous surpasser pour toucher les cordes les plus subtiles de notre être et les faire vibrer, car il y aura nécessairement des forces, des entités, des régions qui répondront en nous faisant bénéficier de leurs richesses.
“What I would like my spiritual children to understand is that our practice is a practice of the Heart and the Soul . But also it is a practice of Reason. I would like you to have it clear in your minds what is essential in our practice . It is not only Dua , it is not only presence in Jamatkhana ,it is not only service to the Imam and to the Jamats , but it is also Ibadat . Extract of Firman made by Mowlana Hazar Imam in Dar es Salaam on 6 th October 1988 .
MowlaBapa n’oublie jamais Ses Murids ! Mowlana Hazar Imam n’a-t-il pas dit qu’il est important d’être régulier au rendez-vous qu’Il nous accorde (Grâce et Paix sur Lui) ! Mile sukranas à Lui et Shukar Mowla de nous donner cette chance de vivre cette Nuit des Anges et de nous garder sur la voie droite du Siratal-mustaquim !
Bonne réception avec mes prières et mes sincères pensées fraternelles pour une Nuit de Lailat-Ul-Qadr complète, sereine et pleine de satisfactions ! Nous savons aussi qu’il n’y a pas d’écoute vraie sans l’attitude fondamentale d’humilité ! Et que la vie quotidienne avec son lot de »challenges »aille de soi est la condition sine qua non de la paix intérieure et du silence de l’Ibadat, propice à la relation avec le Noor de Mowla !

Ya Ali Madat et Khuda Hafeez ! Mohez nato

* France

Le message ci-dessus de Mohez Nato
On September 8th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
J'espère que cette sainte nuit vous aura apporté ce que vous désiriez...
Ya Aly madad.
PS Vous avez sans doute lu la transcription du contre interrogatoire mené au début août.

* Canada

@Nato Mohez
On August 28th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Very well written. Thank You. Merci.

* Canada

Let us invoke Mawla's Rahemat on this 17th day of Ramadan 2010
On August 27th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Today when our minds are clouded with worries and tensions.
Let us not forget Our Lord Hazar Imam is among us to bless us and guide us.
Let us reflect on this Magnificent piece of historical evidence of greatness of Ismaili Imamat

The Declaration of Alâmut
( Imam ‘Alâ -zhikrihis-salâm )

8th August 1164/17th day of Ramadan

On the seventeenth day of the month of Ramazân, in 559 AH ( 8th August 1164 A.D.), under the astrological sign of the Virgo, the sun being in the Cancer constellation, the Imâm had ordered a pulpit to be erected oriented towards the west, on the prayer ground at the foot of Alamût. Four banners had been set up at each corner of the pulpit. The companions from Khôrassan had been placed at the right side of the pulpit. Those from the Persian Irâq had taken place at the left side. The Daylâmites and the companions from Rûdhbar had been seated just in front of the pulpit.

In the middle, facing the pulpit, a platform had been built and the faqîh Mohammad Bostî was ordered to stand on the platform. Around noon, the grand-master ( Khôdavand ) ‘Ala zikrihis-salâam, wearing a white robe and having a white turban on his head, came down from the fortress of Alamut. He approached the pulpit by its right side, and walking up step by step, slowly and with majesty,he ascended the pulpit. Three times, he expressed his salute : the first one to the people from Daylâm in front of him, the second one, by turning to his right, the third and last one by turning to his left. For a moment, he sat down. Then, he rose, put on a shoulder-belt to which was hung his sword and he read this proclamation in a loud and clear voice :

" Stand up ! for the Day of the Resurrection has arisen. The waiting of the Signal
is now fulfilled. Now has come the rise of the Resurrection ( Qiyamât ) which is the accomplishment of all the resurrections. Today, there is no more need to search the proofs or the evidences; today, the Knowledge depends no more on the Signs ( from the verses of a revealed Book ), nor on the speeches, neither on the symbols, nor on the acts of devotion bending the bodies. Today, the acts and the words, the signs and the symbols have come to the end of the term of their terms. The one who has contemplated with his own eyes the Essence ( dhât ) in person, that one has contemplated with his own eyes the totality of the signs and evidences of all the Revelations, while that which he knew by names and qualifications, was its reverse and converse, that which was until now hidden under a veil."

" O you, inhabitants of the worlds ! You, djinn, men and angels ! Know that Mawlâ-nâ
( our Lord ) is the Resurrector ( Qâ’im al-Qiyâmat ). He is the lord of all beings, he is the lord who is the absolute existence ( wojûd motlaq ), thus excluding all existential determination, for he transcends them all. He opens up the gates of his Mercy, and through the light of his Knowledge, he is the cause which makes that all beings can see, can hear, can speak, can live for eternity.

" To the one who knows, it is incumbent on him to praise Him and to express his gratitude to Him, though He transcends all that, for he is the One who is his praise to Himself, the One who by his essence is the all-Knowing."
" After that, the Imâm pronounced a first exhortation. Then he read the copy of the epistle beginning with these words : " We are the always existing in the present…" Then he pronounced the first sermon. After that, he sat down for a while, stood up again and pronounced the second sermon."

" After that, the faqîh Mohammad Bostî stood on his platform, facing the chair on the pulpit and read out the translations of the sermons and the grand epistle from beginning to end. During the reading of the translations, the grand-master himself listened standing up. When the reading ended, the grand-master left his chair and went down to recite the liturgical prayer comprising two successive inclinations of the head ( rik’a ) as it is the custom during days of solemn festival."

" The whole day went by in felicitations, congratulations and other manifestations of
overwhelming rejoicing. The necks of the believers have been freed from the shackles and the chains of the Law. "

" On the very same day, order was given so that the festival be celebrated at Mu’minâbad in Qohestân and everywhere else.
The above description reminded me of GJ Deedar, Daresalam August 2007 where Mawla asked the whole jamat to put all the worries on the side (he indicated with hand to push aside ) and celebrate the evening with Dandiya ras and Biriyani.

( The declaration Translated from a French article by Henry Corbin)Henry Corbin: "Huitième centenaire d'Alamût", Mercure de France, février 1965, p.286-304.

* United States

"Heritage", a Great Site
On August 26th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Umed: In my previous postings, I have mentioned that this Site is a "Knowledgeable and Peaceful" site, which I am sure we all enjoy surfing. Just look at the beautiful stories, that some of the Murids of our Beloved Hazar Imam have been sharing with us, and this makes Hazar Imam happy, "Knowledge of our Faith". Thank you to you all. Umed, keep up the excellent work you are doing. Once again many thanks.

* Canada

"Heritage", a great site
On September 8th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
En effet, on ne peut vous remercier assez pour tout ce que l'équipe affiche et met à la disposition des internautes ! Vous ne savez combien je prie pour l'auteur du site et ses collaborateurs à chaque fois que je lis les extraits de discours ou de ginan ou de kalam qui figuren en tête de page, ou que je consulte un discours, la biographie, ou que je fais des recherches pour les ginan ! Et que dire des belles photos qu'on y trouve et qui me donnent les larmes aux yeux...Puisse-t-Il vous garder sur le droit chemin à jamais, vous accorder la santé, la paix, beaucoup de joies, éloigner le mal et les vices de vous, et exaucer vos désirs les meilleurs. Ameen !
Et l'époque du jubilé restera inoubliable avec toutes les nouvelles que vous affichiez et le projet de salwaat ! Mille mercis !
Et bonne continuation !
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

ALLAH IS GRACIOUS AND MERCIFUL
On August 25th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Now coming back to the thread of the confronting issues, the Defendants must be very strong in their belief to continue with this litigation. They (Defendants) have survived the name-calling, preconceived notion, intimidation, and prejudice but the Defendants are steadfast in their belief that the resolution to this lawsuit will be pronounced in their favor! Personally, I do not know the conclusion of this litigation but I am praying that it is fair and just. Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

@ Alibhai Jiwani
On August 25th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

This is very good information. Did 18th Imam (Imam Mustansir Billah) not know in advance that the hardship would be created for Shirazi, His future Hujja, by his very own senior leaders? Indeed, on spiritual plane, He had the knowledge, but on physical plane (Zaheri side), He acted just like any other normal ruler.
Similarly, Maula Ali, on spiritual plane was obviously aware that He would not be selected as a third Caliph of Islam due to conspiracy of a couple of persons, and yet, He for the sake of Islam, remained in the field as a candidate until the last. Though later on, after 12 years, and as a last resort, when Muslim world was under total chaos, He accepted reluctantly to become the fourth Caliph on insistence of Muslim public at large.

The Point is: ‘In almost all events, Imam of the Time, normally acts as an ordinary human being, though on spiritual plane, He is omniscient and all in all.

Mawla has to act like ordinary human on physical realm
On August 25th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Asif, I am a great believer of spirituality but convinced by your reply I am also afraid that in this case no matter how much on spiritual level Mawla might be in agreement with the defendants. on physical plane he might be just forced to behave like an ordinary person to protect our Institutes and powerful leaders surrounding him in order to maintain the structure of our organised religion.
Alnaz and Nagib might be the unforunate casualties.I am praying for a miracle.Even though it is very rare to come by

* United States

Justice
On August 25th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

In Islam the Faithful believe in Divine justice and are convinced that the solution of the great problem of predestination and free will is to be found in the compromise that God knows what man is going to do, but that man is free to do it or not. Wars are condemned. Peace ought to be universal. Islam means peace, God's peace with man and the peace of men one to another. . [Memoirs]

-- Aga Khan III

* United States

senior lawyer
On August 25th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

Umed: Ya Ali Madad

Have senior lawyer and notary been examined yet; or, from point of view of defendants, their examinations are not at all required?

The only people examined are
On August 25th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The only people examined are Tajdin, Jiwa, Sachedina, Bhaloo and Forensic Expert Mr Osprey, no one else according to our knowledge. So these were the people in the battlefield for the upcoming Motions.

Lawsuit News Update
On August 25th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Case Management dates will be set after 7th of September, not on 24/25th August.

Final transcripts for Tajdin, Jiwa, Sachedina and Bhaloo have been finalized, the only one not yet available is the transcript of the examination of the Forensic Expert Mr Opsrey by Mr Gray.

Ospreay Transcipts
On September 13th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

Can the transcripts of Ospreay , the forensic handwriting expert , be posted here since they are available now ?
Did a case management conference call happen on 7 september ? what was outcome ?
Thanks

* Canada

Transcripts of
On September 13th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Transcripts of cross-examination of Forensic experts will be posted shortly. The Case Management Conference has not happened yet, maybe in a week...

Ospreay Transcipts
On September 13th, 2010 zul (not verified) says:

I dont think that NT/AJ will post the Ospreay transcript here, .. this will be a very shameful thing to do

* Canada

Above post re: case management dates
On August 25th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
What does "case management dates" mean, librarian-umed? Sorry for being so ill informed. And thank you. Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Specially managed proceedings
On August 26th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

Specially managed proceedings [r. 383-385] are cases taken out of the usual Court flow and proceed according to directions given by the case management judge. The case management judge may:

* give any directions that are necessary for the just, most expeditious and least expensive determination of the proceedings on its merits;
* fix the period for completion of subsequent steps in the proceedings notwithstanding any period provided for in the Rules;
* fix and conduct any dispute resolution or pre-trial conferences that he or she considers necessary; or subject to subsection 50(1) hear and determine all motions arising prior to the assignment of a hearing date;
* or may order that a status review be held in accordance with Rule 382.

(from: cfcj-fcjc.org/inventory/reform.php?lang=en&id=40)

Trancripts
On August 25th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

How can we read those final transcripts?
or are they private?

* United States

can you post these
On August 25th, 2010 zul (not verified) says:

can you post these transcripts ( tajdin, jiwa, bhalo, sachedina??

* Canada

We have to verify first the
On August 25th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

We have to verify first the legalities of this and then get them so it may take some time..

Historically leadership has created obstructions for Momins
On August 24th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

A true momin's faith will always undergo testings!
The following history is remarkable.

When al-Mu’ayyad-din Shirazi ,an exceptional poet and ardent Momin of the Imam left Persia and went to Egypt with a burning desire to see Imam Caliph Mustansirbillah, he feared the intrigues of the ministers who did not permit any man of learning to see Imam personally unless he complied with their dictates and acknowledged their superiority.
On reaching Egypt he experienced all that he had feared.
He was lodged in a small house and his visits to the court were short and limited to prevent him from seeing the Imam.
Most of the Vaziers and their junior officers were jealous of al-Muy’ayyad for they all saw in him the real threat to their positions.
Disappointed, he finally decided to leave Egypt and wrote about his frustrations to Tastari, who was one of the powerful people in the Fatimid State. Shirazi wrote:

“I have not come to Egypt to seek wealth or gain any position. The promptings of my faith have brought me here. I have come to visit the Imam and not the Vaziers and their officials. Unfortunately, these people stop me from having a look at my Imam and now I am returning disappointed”

The sudden death of Tastari gave al- Mu’ayyad another opportunity to renew his efforts to get some time to be in the holy presence of the Imam and with the help of one of the minister he was able to have the “Deedar” of the Imam, for the first time in his life.

” I was taken near the place where from I saw the bright light of the Prophethood.My eyes were dazzled by the light .I shed tears of joy and felt as if I was looking at the face of the prophet of Allah and of the commander of the faithful, Hazrat Ali.
I prostrated myself before the one who is the fittest person to bow to.
I wanted to say something but I was awe struck…
I tried to speak but my tongue refused to move. People asked me to say what I wished to say. I could say nothing."
The Imam said:
“Leave him. Let his fear and awe subside.”
He was in Sajda for hours!!
After several years, the Imam graciously granted him the position of the chief Dai (Hujjat or proof of Imam) of the Fatimid Caliphate.
While Appointing to this prestigious position the 18th Imam himself wrote a Qasida, which praises Shirazi’s knowledge and unique competence and his ordeal to visit the Imam of the time. The Imam wrote:

“O Hujja, who is famous among the people,
Our doors were not locked to you
Except due to a hurtful, disturbing cause:
Our shunning was the shunning of a concerned father

Our followers have lost their right guidance,
So spread among them what you will of our knowledge
And be for them the concerned parent.

Even though you are the last in our dawa you have surpassed the compass of earlier dais
The like of you cannot be found among those who have gone, from all the people nor those that remain”

Amazing!
Ever heard of Imam writing a Qasida for a murid?
This proves Imam’s love is much more for his true Momin than a momin’s love for Imam.

Source for the above article:
Life and lectures of Al Muaayyad fid din al Shirazi
late Javed Muscati
Ismailia association for Pakistan 1950

* United States

Re:Historically leadership has created obstructions for Momins
On August 25th, 2010 Najm (not verified) says:

Al Mu'ayyad's longing for the deedar of then Imam-e-Zaman (and Caliph) Imam Mustansirbillah can not be compared with our brothers, Tajdin's and Alnaz's, created situation. But yes, in the school of life everyone has to to 'pass the tests' to go to a higher class. Ramadan Mubarak.

* United Kingdom

Re: Alibhai's above post
On August 24th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, brother Alibhai, many thanks for sharing the above and for including the source too! I had heard about the dai's extreme emotion at the time of the Deedar, but had not heard of the Imam's qasida for him...As for obstacles for the dai to meet the Imam and for hostility towards him, history does repeat itself, doesn't it...
Again, thank you.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Alibhai Jiwani
On August 24th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Thank you for sharing this beautiful story with us.

* Canada

@Yasmin
On August 24th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

You are right Yasmin. These two are not only ardent and devoted Murids of Hazar Imam but are full with Isq-e-Haqiqi (Love for the Imam of the Time). Their Iman is not less than Gopis of Mathura or that of Fidais of Almut period. It is a matter of just 3 to 4 months and real truth will come out. I foresee many positive fallouts after the court verdict.
My main point:
Intellect is helpful in attaining partial knowledge of Imam of the Time but is totally insufficient to experience Him in the heart. Consciousness of Him must arise in the heart on the basis of innate natural disposition of man. And to attain him in the heart requires immense love for Him which should surpass one’s love for all others including everyone and everything.
• Love cannot be contained within our speaking, listening or writing; Love is an ocean whose depths cannot be plumbed. Would you try to count the drops of the sea? Before that ocean, the seven seas are nothing ( Maulana Rumi, Mathnavi,
v 2731-32)

Hazar Imam Loves His Murids
On August 22nd, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

The defendants in this lawsuit are two good Murids of our Beloved Hazar Imam. They want to know the "truth" in this case. Inshallah, Hazar Imam will show them the truth. They both have very strong faith, and their faith will give them the strength to face any challenges. Hazar Imam loves all His Murids, and I am sure He will take care of this situation. Thank you.

* Canada

Praying for a happy closure!
On August 21st, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat, Mr. Bloglaw! It is very pleasing news that Messer Tajdin and Alnaz have recognized the fact that MHI is fully aware about the litigation. The Defendants have also accepted that it is MHI prerogative and privilege to put into effect the ending or continuation in this litigation. How this litigation ends does not have any significance because it has started and it has to end!

The majority of the Jamat is aware about the litigation but was not comfortable to know as to how it came out. I think Messer Tajdin and Alnaz should understand when the Ismaili Muslim gather for prayers in Jamatkhana, the Jamat is praying for the good, and betterment of all Ismaili Muslim as well as the world. Therefore, there is malice involved!

Normally the obligation is always on the Ismaili Muslim to interpret the right context. There have been disagreement, insubordination, and to an extent rebelliousness in Jamat. These adjectives are all internal bickering. We are 15 million Ismaili Muslims worldwide, and appeasement is not in the foundation of Ismailism!

MHI has specially said in His Pronouncements that “NOBODY IS PERFECT, EXCEPT ALLAH.” This was the Farman He made somewhere in India to make aware a minority of the Jamat, what entails when one is appointed as a member of His Institutions. There will be criticism, disgruntles, dissatisfaction, and disapproval!

We are still diminutive in our belief but the time will prefigure the esoteric and exoteric life of a Murid. When these concepts are understood the mystery and obscurity will diminish to bring about the rational of material and spiritual life.

I would like to take this opportunity to convey my very sincere regards to LIBRARIAN – UMED and the team at Ismaili.Net for being very rational and constructive. The litigation is complex, compound, and
Multifaceted; however, we all are praying for a happy closure. Ameen!!

I accept that the challenging times are at the forefront of us but the Ismaili Muslims will survive because we are following MHI with the unconditional faith and conviction! I will totally agree with you, we should all pray together for Imam’s good health, cheery longevity, and for His blessings, and for his forgiveness. Amen!! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Mr Osprey, the expert on
On August 18th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Mr Osprey, the expert on forgery has been examined today by Mr Gray.

Examination of Forensic Expert
On August 21st, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

The case is moving, though gradually, in favour of the defendants – particularly after the examination of the expert Mr. Osprey -- which will indeed generate some doubt in the minds of the judge about the real identity of the plaintiff. This would probably lead the judge either to order Mr. Gray to satisfy the court fully about the real identity of the plaintiff or else would approve the ‘discovery’ application of the defendants.
The verdict by the judge, the way the case runs in the court, might take more than a couple of months, but with the passage of time, the (usurper) plaintiff(s) is/are slowly getting exposed.
Mr. SS has still enough time to retract and should humbly till the truth to Hazar Imam, who being Most Merciful, I feel, might find a solution acceptable to all. This way he can still save some of his reputation left so far.

New documents in court docket.
On August 18th, 2010 Alibhai Jivani USA (not verified) says:

What does those things mean for the defendants?
Just looking for some update.

* United States

According to one of the
On August 19th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

According to one of the defendant we have talked to, they say their case is now strengthened thanks to the various examinations and it is clear now that Imam is definitely not the one who initiated this lawsuit.

Did the defendants get their answer from Hazar Imam?
On August 22nd, 2010 Alibhai Jivani USA (not verified) says:

"I am pleased that the defendants have now got their answer from Hazar Imam"

The above sentence is posted on Vancouverite on 21st august by Bloglaw , a pro defendant blogger for a long time and he is seeing settlement a must at this point.

Please can you give some insight in the matter?
How did defendants got their answer from Imam?
So what is the next step?

* United States

I have no news of that. One
On August 23rd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

I have no news of that. One should not always believe what is written on those web sites.
The case is continuing and the Judge will give a judgment in due time after all the motions are heard. To our knowledge the Imam has not intervene n one side or the other up to now which means He will let the Court decide what to do with the forger[s] and all the issues at hand.

It is confusing that the
On August 24th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

It is confusing that the Imam is allowing this case to be continued,in His name ?, and why the lawyers are also continuing this case if Imam has not intervened and is continuing this case in His name ?.

* United Arab Emirates

God works in mysterious
On August 24th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

God works in mysterious ways

Ginanic predictions?
On August 19th, 2010 Alibhai Jivani USA (not verified) says:

Aashaajee Kal-jug maanhe bahu paakhandd vaapeeyaa

tees maanhe hoyshe nivedda jee

kal maanhe kaayam kaaleengo sanghaar-she

tees seer ehee akhaaddaa................Haree anant...25

Oh Lord In the present age deceivers and cheaters will thrive
in the same time there will also be judgement and accountability

In the present era the Everliving(Lord) will be destroy the demon(evil)

There will be intellectual(seer), arguements in the Courts (Battlefields)
Haree You are eternal...
PS: "Seer" could also mean North part? northern hemisphere Canada?

Aashaajee Kal-jug maanhe bahu paakhandd vaapiyaa

satee koi virlaa hoy-she jee

kaaleengo daannav tap karee aavyaa

te karodh mukhe khoi jaaye..............Haree anant...26

Oh Lord In the present age fraud and forgery will be widespread.

There will be rare true and courageous momin.
The evil enemy has come in the disguise of a devotee and has lured many souls away from the truth.
Haree You are eternal...

I found this ginan somehow applicable.

* United States

Ginanic predictions. correction
On August 20th, 2010 Alibhai Jivani USA (not verified) says:

"Nivedda" could also mean" Resolution or justice" rather than judgement and accountability (second line of the verse 25 of Aashajee ginan).
In the present era the everliving (Lord) will destroy the demon(evil) :(grammar correction second line of translation)

My Apology for errors

May be some Scholar or Alvaez can give better explanation of these 2 verses

* United States

Umed
On August 19th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Still we need to continue for our prayers for success of defendats.

Re: above post by librarian-umed
On August 19th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you so much for updating us...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

"Ramadhan Mubarak"
On August 14th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

"Ramadhan Mubarak" to all on this site, and may Allah's shower His Blessings on each an everyone of us. May our Beloved Hazar Imam bless us all with His Zaheri and Batuni Deedar. Ameen.

* Canada

Defenses Glorifying the Aga Khan filed in federal Court - 2010-0
On August 14th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai - Stockholm, Sweden (not verified) says:

Dear All,

This whole episode is (as I see it) an extremely sad event for
especially Mowla and all His Murids.

We are all ordinary Murids.
We can be witnesses to events taking place or that have
taken place, but to make a judgement is in the Hands of
All-Mighty Allah. Our beloved Hazar Imam at present is
for us the Link between The All-Mighty and Us.
Mowla's noor is what will help us to re-unite us with
the Noor of Allah, the Truth.

I would hereby request everybody not be carried away and
instead pray for all involved, that they get so called sud-
budhi and they ultimately realise what they have to do.
Their conscience will guide them and I hope and pray
that Allah All-Mighty will guide them and the TRUTH
will ultimately prevail.
Regardless of what religion and belief they belong to.

The Courts have to play their part in this according to
the laws of the Country they are in, and where the
case is being heard.

We have to be patient, non-judgemental and leave
it to Mowlana Hazar Imam to deal with this matter
as He (Mowla) sees fit.

I pray that a solution is arrived at on this matter i
and a verdict (if the case runs in the court) will
be delivered very soon.

May you All be Blessed.

Thank you.
Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

@Alaudin
On August 15th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Alaudin, Very well said. Thank you.

* Canada

Settlement
On August 13th, 2010 Momineen (not verified) says:

I hope the cross examinations today will be used as an opportunity and a reason to settle and stop this lawsuit. let us all pray that this is the outcome. Ameen

* Germany

mulaqat
On August 15th, 2010 nargis kinnare (not verified) says:

I really and sincerely believe that if the defendents are serious about this matter they can easily go to Paris, go to Aiglemond, be there persistently until HRH grants them mulaqat. In past so many people have done this and are blessed with mulaqat. As per defendents the matter can be over without hassle and to the satisfaction of everyone.

* United States

Approaching the Imam without His consent?
On August 15th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Actually it is not difficult to approach the Imam as he drives Himself, walks alone some time, goes to public places.. but the Code of Conduct of the followers of the Imam written by Qadi Numan says unless the Imam invites you by a sign or explicitly to talk to Him or to approach Him, you can not do so. And there is a possibility that the Imam is waiting for all proofs of forgeries, and other documents to be in a legal framework before He intervenes. That may explain why he would not intervene in one side or the other.

* Canada

Approaching the Imam without consent
On August 16th, 2010 Alibhai Jivani USA (not verified) says:

I agree with Librarian Umed , it is not a good idea to approach Imam without his consent .
A big No No.
He is aware of everything.
He will let the whole issue of forgery play out and let the chips fall where they may per one's "Karma".
The current process is actually in big favor of defendants I think. Obviously Mawla wants justice be done to his Murids.
Patience is the key to success.The time will prove right from wrong.He is standing by the defendants in batin .
Our tradition is an esoteric that is batuni one. If they want to meet him they should not miss Jamatkhana one bit especially am practise. He is ever present in Jamatkhana please do not forget that fact.(emphasised by all Imams)
Going to Aiglemont may be upsetting." Nothing makes me more happy than to know you are regular in attendance to jamatkhana" (Firman Shah Karim ,Karachi. ). So make him happy.
Also find His true momins and make them happy.They may be not visible easily but they are there if you look properly.
A sure short cut to reach Hazar Imam's heart

* United States

The cross examinations of
On August 13th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The cross examinations of Sachedina and Bhaloo have been completed. As mention this is for the Motions for judgment and the Motions for dismissal. I believe the transcripts take some times and they are not public. What a waste of time, money and resources. Wonder who is paying for this...

* Canada

The cross examinations of
On August 14th, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

In response to the Statement of Aug 13, 2010 I would like to ask four questions and would appreciate librarian-umed to answer these questions if he knows the answers. Q1. Were Mr. Jiwa and Mr. Tajdin both allowed to be present during each other's cross examinations? I believe that the Plaintiff's Solicitor had requested that they should not be present during each others examination. Q2. Do the defendants know that their cross examination of Sachedina and Bhaloo in any way strengthened their cases? Q3. Do the defendants now know the approximate date when the motions will go forward? Q4. Is it true that the party that loses will end up paying the costs? Thank you kindly for your reply.

* Canada

R1: Yes we believe Mr Jiwa
On August 15th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

R1: Yes we believe Mr Jiwa and Mr Tajdin sat in each others examination. Bhaloo and Sachedina were not present in each others examination.
R2. It may have completely undermined the case of the usurpers plaintiff. {looks like they are more then one person]
R3: There is a motion on 23rd August I believe as per an order from the Court [Was it Judge Heneghan?] But the main two or three motions from both sides [dismissal and judgment] will be heard after October 4th, maybe toward November.
R4: The defendant may not ask any cost as they would not want any money taken from Imamat funds. It is unlikely also that the usurper will pay from his pocket when he looses the case so it looks like the defendant have not asked cost in their motion.
Note: examination of the experts have not yet taken place.

* Canada

Librarian-umed above post
On August 14th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
And also such a strain, tension, for those who sympathize with the defendants. Truly nerve-wrecking.
Would the transcripts just reflect what passed during the cross examinations? What is the next step after that? Thank you.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

The transcript is done by a
On August 15th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The transcript is done by a Court typist. usually they are accurate. But it looks like the transcripts are confidential according to the rules and can not be circulated.

* Canada

Test of faith and love for Hazar Imam
On August 12th, 2010 Alibhai (not verified) says:

This anecdote is for people who believe in Pir Saderdin ‘s Ginanic philosophy of DasAvtar and who believe in Hazar Imam as the tenth Naklanki Avatar of Ilahi Noor.Das avatar was validated in the Bombay High court during Haji Bibi’s court case with Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah.
It is an example of how a true momin’s love is willing to undergo any hardship or Kasoti
As per Pir Saderdin teachings Lord Krishna was the Eighth manifestation of Noor or Avatar

Lord Krishna always thought and talked of Gopis, this made Devashi ( His Aide) always wonder why so much concern for these ordinary shepherds of Gokul occupying so much of his lord’s time and care.

So one day Krishna decided to teach a lesson to his Aide Devashi (Also called Narad Muni)
Lord Krishna faked an illness of stomach pain so acute that he was really very restless and in severe pain.
Everyone in Dwarika became worried and panicky.
Devashi rushed to the Lord and asked him what was the matter?
Lord Krishna urged he has the worst stomach pain of his life and he is really suffering.
Devashi was an intelligent guy he asked the lord, “please lord you tell us what is the treatment?”
“What medicine?”
“What herbs shall I get?” Devashi asked impatiently.
“Oh man, this is the kind of pain nothing else will cure except if you rub the dirt from the feet of any true devotee it will be cured” answered Lord Krishna.
Devashi thought he himself and so many others in the kingdom of Dwarika including Lord Krishna’s hundreds of Queens they all are true devotees!
How can I offer dirt from my feet to the lord I would be such a sinner and I would go to hell if I did such a lowly gesture, thought Devashi.
He asked all the Queens of Lord Krishna but all of them thought that it would be such an improper gesture to rub the dirt from under their feet on lord Krishna’s stomach! Woe!
They would surely go to hell if they did so they apologized saying “Oh no”
Finally on instruction of lord Krishna Devashi rushed to Gokul to ask the Gopis if they would give their dirt from under their feet.
Devashi rushed out in panic all worried about lord Krishna’s pain and strange treatment requirement.
Gopis saw Devashi and rushed to him and asked, “What is the matter Devashi why do you look so worried?”
Devashi told them about Lord’s stomach pain and the necessary treatment
The Gopis instantly lifted their feet and quickly offered all the dirt available and handed it to Devashi and literally pushed him to rush back to Dwarika to go and give the dirt to rub it on Lord’s stomach so his pain can be alleviated ASAP
Devashi Asked, “ But wait, are you not worried you could go to hell for offering the dirt of your feet to our Lord of the worlds?”
“ Oh Devashi, please do not waste time on such useless discussion right now our beloved Krishna is in pain we do not care where we go after death
It does not matter if we go to hell or get the worst punishment; the knowledge that our beloved Krishna is in any discomfort is unbearable to us
Please just leave and rush back to him and deliver the treatment”
Devashi took the dirt from Gopis feet and reached Dwarika.
Lord Krishna was sitting there comfortably
No pain nothing, just smiling!
Devashi asked what happened to your stomach pain?
“ All is well” no need of any thing said Krishna.
I just wanted you to know why I am always thinking and concerned of my Gopis?
Did you see their love for me?
Devashi was dumbfounded!
Gopis love is pure unconditional! They did not care for the torments of hell or severest punishment as long as their beloved Krishna felt better.
Imam’s love is always greatest for his true momins who love him more than any thing else in this world.
I hope Nagib and Alnaz”s love for Mawla is as ardent as the Gopis.
If you love Hazar Imam you have nothing to worry in this world in this sentence lies all the essence and beauty of our faith (ISMS firman, Not the exact words)

* United States

My full name
On August 15th, 2010 Alibhai Jivani USA (not verified) says:

Since there is one more person with similar name I would specify my name more clearly for the above anecdote and my other posts.

* United States

Test of faith and love for Hazar Imam
On August 14th, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

Mr. Alibhai - The anecdote is very touching. Can you tell me whether this story is from any of the scriptures or ginan. If so, I would appreciate your reference to the source.

* Canada

Knowledge can be acquired from China if needed.
On August 15th, 2010 Alibhai (not verified) says:

I heard it on T.V. in some religious discourse of Bhagvat Katha .on TV asia about 6 months ago.

* United States

Unconditional Love and Faith!!!!
On August 13th, 2010 Dilawar H Momin (not verified) says:

Alibhai, excellent story. Gopis love is pure unconditional! They didn't put condition to see Krishna but believed what Devashi told them and acted accordingly.

* United States

Unconditional Love and Faith!!!!
On August 14th, 2010 Najm (not verified) says:

For this 'Unconditional Love and Faith' was not Lord Krishna certain that his instruction and message to Devashi would be correctly conveyed to Gopi devotees? In turn, the Gopis do not question their beloved Lord. Ramadan Mubarak

* United Kingdom

Unconditional Love and Guidance from NOOR!
On August 13th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

Dear Dilawar H Momin,

Of course the Gopis did not doubt Devashi because the request actually came from Krishna.

If Devashi has abused of his position and of the Gopis' trust and tried to get the Gopis to betray the Imam on His own whim, I am sure the Gopis would have been guided by the Noor to avoid the trap!

* Canada

I missed the thread, did
On August 13th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

I missed the thread, did someone see a forged letter from Krishna to the Gopis ;-)

* Canada

Above post by Alibhai
On August 13th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Test of Faith
On August 12th, 2010 Jenny (not verified) says:

Prayers for this kind of love for our Imam is for the global Jamat. May Mowla's Rahemat always be our Guide and Protection. This also reminds me of the Mehmani of August 15 1992, unfortuanately some Ismailis cannot comprehend its magnitude.

* Canada

Test of Faith
On August 13th, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

I agree 100% with you

* Canada

I gave my comment the way I
On August 11th, 2010 Concerned Momin (not verified) says:

I gave my comment the way I felt, especially I have never heard the comments like puk and stink like gutter before in my life. Why not use proper language, but than who am I to tell. I personally feel that, if, Hazar Imam is suing them, than let it be, and wait for the results.

I still do not understand why my comment has been removed and please post this one.

Rakh Mowla Te.

* Canada

My posts have been condensed to reduce the effect of the stance
On August 10th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat, Mr. Bloglaw! I have submitted several replies to you via Ismaili.Net but so far not all have been posted. I would appreciate if would kindly find out from the Editor of Ismaili.Net why there is heavy censorship and restriction placed on my posts? Furthermore, my posts have been condensed to reduce the effect of the stance I have taken! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji

Do defendants recognise their Imam ?
On August 11th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Mr Shivji,Your post in Vancouveritte.
I am sorry to say I find your conclusions unreasonable coming from someone who has been advocating reason, understanding, respect, pluralism and meritocracy.

My Response. Mr Shivji; you say you have concluded that both Alnaz & Nagib;

1 Both have ulterior motives, and
2 They are both both so called crusaders ?, and
3 They are bent to transgress, criticize anthing balanced and practical, and
4 They both have a deep seated prejudice and
5 They both dont recognise that their Imam is their & our spiritual father, and
6 They are both heading into segregation which is deeper like their ill considered path.

None of the above can be reasonably concluded from the affidavits and the court documentation so far. Especially you !
I assume you have decided and concluded bsed on comments on the heritage website which you have assumed are ALL from Nagib ? and Alnaz ? which you know is not the case !

My My, what next Mr Shivji ? YAM & Allah Hafiz to you.

* United Kingdom

IT IS DIFFICULT TO COMPREHEND THE TRUTH
On August 11th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat, Mr. Bloglaw! Thank you for giving me the prominence in Ismailil.Net. Foremost, my apology to Messer. Alnaz and Nagib. We all are aware this court case is very complex and compounded into many fall outs which are beyond salvageable. I do not know how this issue will be brought to resolution. But you are very quick to point to my post in Vancouverite dated August 10, 2010. You have failed to take into consideration whenever we are near new thoughts on resolution; you come up with counter proposal. I do not any wish right now to refer to your posts. These I leave it to you ponder and think about. I stand by what I practice but I fall short on preaching.

• MHI is our Spiritual Father and any of His pronouncements is Farman for us. So far the Defendants are wavering from this recognition.
• The Defendants attitudes is like the so call crusaders that they have a task to fulfill which in interim is hurting MHI.
• The Defendants say one thing but are far from practicing what they are saying.
• There is so much unpredictability from the said Defendants that it has become very difficult to comprehend what they (Defendants) truthfully want?

So far I have not drawn any conclusion but opened the Pandora box to debate this issue further. I could be wrong in using so many adjective to dwell in my hypothesis. However, very diligently I stress upon due respect, pluralism, democracy, and meritocracy because this is the way to tolerance and generosity!

Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

I must agree to disagree
On August 12th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I must agree to disagree with you.

1 the defendants have not wavered they are seeking direct guidance from the imam for 5-10 min.
2 defendants are not hurting the Imam and if you can't tell your father how you feel and your problems who can you and in doing so how are you hurting him and would he not want you to do so.
3 the defendants are saying clearly what they are practicing
4 They are saying very clearly what they truly want since feb before the lawsuit.
5 the defendants are not unpredictable and you have not opened a landless box with respect

Finally I must add that the above is from a study of the documents in court and not generalisation. Yam and Allah hafiz

* United Kingdom

Mr Shivji; As you know I am
On August 11th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Mr Shivji; As you know I am not a part of the Ismaili-net team nor do I know the owners personally. But it may be comforting for you to to know not all my comments have been posted nor do I, you or others should expect all of theirs to be posted. This is always at the sole discretion of an Editor and his/her moderation team based on the policies of the website/publication. You may wish to try making the same points and comments on other website/s which most will also read if posted, as I do. YAM

* United Kingdom

@Bloglaw
On August 11th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Isn't it sad, when Murids of our Beloved Hazar Imam write "unislamic" statements such as:

1. Your proposal illustrates to me that you are now unfit to be considered an Ismaili!!!
2. Like most of the other posts on the heritage website, your post (counter-proposal) stinks like gutter!!!!!
3. We'd rather spend time digging up lives of people like you and your fellow wolves!!!!!

I have also noticed lately that some very unpleasant comments have been made against some of the Murids on this Site.

As far as I know, that a person's thoughts, his or her written comments, is the same as if it is spoken. It reminds me of the Saying of our Beloved Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) that, "Adultery of the tongue is to utter what is forbidden". It is also sad that these Murids are judgemental too. No-one has a right to judge anyone except Allah. As I see on this site that there has been discussions on the lawsuit, institutions' leaders' performance, etc., only. These are just discussions, and not personal attacks. My prayers for the above Murids is that May Allah bring "Peace" to them, and it is my humble request to Umed that let us all enjoy surfing this "peaceful website". Thank you.

* Canada

@ Yasmin
On August 12th, 2010 Sabzali (not verified) says:

Mashala, very true!

* Tajikistan

News Editor of Vancouverite
On August 10th, 2010 Amin (not verified) says:

In my 40 years of reading/watching news reporting in Canada, I have never come across an news editor who is so blatant about his bias.

He contradicts at will, call his readers names and then make self-praising remarks about his journalism ethics. I would suggest that his conduct on the lawsuit forum puts all his work on '*** Edited" etc in doubt as one has to suspect how many facts he bent to bring out the conclusions he wanted.

* Seychelles

The Editor has declared
On August 10th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

The Editor has declared blatantly that he is totally one sided and therefore reason and ethics can unfortunately be the collateral casualties. However we must acknowledge that the Editor is steadfast. A further post by the editor.

News Editor August 9, 2010 - 1:46 PM
Dr. Sachedina is a devoted servant of the Imam. We have no reason to put him under a microscope. We’d rather spend time digging up the lives of people like you and your fellow wolves. We don’t need to know any of the Imam’s appointees. We trust that right decisions are always made. We don’t wear our faith on our sleeves. That is between the creater and the created. You will notice that we are fighting for the rights of only one entity. Most Ismailis would want us to do that.

* United Kingdom

Unprofessional and
On August 9th, 2010 BLOGLAW (not verified) says:

Unprofessional and misconstrued Settlement comment by THE EDITOR of vancouverite and a reply by Bloglaw.

Editor - Vancouverite August 8 2010 Bloglaw. Internet sales of any kind with restrictions that books not be sent beyond a community is not a controllable issue. You are still imposing guidance on the guide. They have no right to decree anything about Ismailism. It is not their daddy’s religion. This is the Aga Khan’s religion and you will either follow his guidance or else you will seek another faith. Yet, this sort of an idea can be a starting point for negotiations but we’re afraid we don’t have the means to carry this message forward. However, we’re sure higher authorities are tuned in to this website
Reply by Bloglaw 9 August 2010 :

1 I agree distribution of Farman books by way of indirect sales to non Ismailies cannot be fully controlled. The defendants have confirmed that they distributed them only to Ismailies. Of course non Ismailies who want to get copies or indeed the Ismailia Association Farman publications did, do, and can get them indirectly as we all know.
2 The defendants in this settlement option are not imposing guidance on the Imam. In fact they are seeking guidance and clarification from the Imam who will finally decide on the final terms of any settlement offer.
3 The settlement proposal is not suggesting that anyone is decreeing anything about Ismailism whatsoever. If you are referring to the settlement proposal that Alnaz and Nagib like all other Ismailies can continue to share Farmans …etc. There is no disagreement. This has also been confirmed in the court pleadings specifically. This is also confirmed in many Farmans and guidance from the Imam.
4 I note that you accept that this settlement proposal can be a starting point for a settlement. The starting point was Mr Gray’s conditional & contradictory offer which I analyzed (see my analysis and conclusions)
5 It is very encouraging that you Mr Editor know that our leaders are visiting your website and reading all the posts and comments.
6 I pray and hope that this settlement option will be considered by Mr Gray, the leaders in question and if such/similar constructive proposal is then put forward to the defendants they too will consider it favorably for a settlement.

Then MHI can make a decision and give his guidance and instructions to Mr Gray who has said he is receiving his instructions direct from MHI.

* United Kingdom

Unprofessional and
On August 10th, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

It's pointless and useless discussing with them Mr Bloglaw, just let the dogs bark.

* Canada

An unreasonable,
On August 9th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

An unreasonable, irresponsible & disrespectful comment in Vacouverite, and a reasons respectful response

Comment by Soulmate August 8 2010 – 11:28AM: Bloglaw: Here are my thoughts on your counter proposal posted on the Heritage website. Your proposal illustrates to me that you are now unfit to be considered an Ismaili. It is unprecedented that any sane murid of the Imam would impose such conditions upon the Imam. Like most of the other posts on the Heritage website, your post (counter-proposal) stinks like gutter.

Reply by Bloglaw : I did not expect a reasoned comment from you. The proposal is refined from the documents in court and Mr Grays offer. If Mr Gray is getting instructions from the Imam as he says he is, then he should not have any major issue with it, nor should the leaders and nor the defendants.

If all of them agree, and request the Imam for guidance, then the Imam can finally decide what is best and he will know what is best.

A win win for all without imposing any new conditions or imposing any conditions on the Imam (as you suggest from your misinterpretation )

* United Kingdom

cross-examination
On August 8th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

August 9, the cross-examination starts for both parties. I really don't know what to expect from this. I hope that the defendants will be strong and our prayers are with them. Admin please, if you have news, keep us posted.

* Canada

Cross examination for the
On August 11th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Cross examination for both defendants have been completed last Monday. Cross from Dr Sachedina starts tomorrow Thursday and is expected to be to be very long. Bhaloo should be Friday. The forensic expert will be examined by Brian Gray next week I believe.

* Canada

Regarding cross examination
On August 12th, 2010 Alibhai (not verified) says:

Does this process happen in the presence of the Judge?
Or is it like a deposition just in the presence of a clerk from the court and the lawyers?
Who will cross examine Dr Sachedina since Nagib does not have a lawyer?.
Just curious to understand the court process in the case.
Does it happen in a court room or else place?
Is it same as deposition ?

* United States

Private examinations
On August 12th, 2010 heritage says:

Cross-examinations are private, they are held at a place chosen by the party that is conducting the examination in the presence of the court reporter and all parties are entitled to be present at all cross-examinations. As Tajdin and Jiwa are self-represented, they are to conduct the examinations that are scheduled for today and tomorrow.
News of this is hard to come by as the transcript is not public.

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

* Canada

Cross Examination
On August 12th, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

I have one question. Where are all the cross examinations being held?

* Canada

@Rabia
On August 10th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Like you, there are many Murids in this discussion group who are praying for their success.

Settlement option
On August 8th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I wonder if the following will be acceptable to the parties. Tajdin agree unconditionally that he will not publish any more books of farmans or republish or distribute the current books published. That Alnaz will not distribute the said books. Tajdin and Allnaz have consent from the Imam like all ismailies to share farmans with their families friends and all other and that all farmans are available to all ismailies in all jamat khanas even in remote locations. Alnaz and Tajdin affirm that the Iman has copyright to the farmans. Alnaz and Tajdin accept that they have infringed copyright if any of the books were sold to non ismailies. Subject to any provided Imam has agreed to meet and will meet Alnaz and Tajdin on .......at ......... Time venue for 10 minutes and give them guidance they will seek from their imam in the context of their imam murid relationship

* Germany

Win-Win situation for the defendants
On August 8th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

The position of the defendants, from the beginning and prior to the filing of the case, has always been that not only they are ready to obey each and every direction, suggestion, instruction or order of Hazar Imam, but they are also ready to sacrifice everything if He so wishes. So in case, during case proceedings, plaintiff turns out to be Hazar Imam, it is still a win situation for them.
But, if during continuation of the case, it is proved that Hazar Imam is not the plaintiff, the court will definitely dismiss the case, and that is a clear win situation for defendants.
So defendants should proceed with the case, irrespective of any threat form Mr. Gray, until the real identity is proved or disproved.
I admire both the defendants for their staunch faith and their firm stand.

Win win for all
On August 8th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

The defendants are very clear in that they want a win win for the imam and for them and for the Jamat. The settlement option I e proposed as an option is a win win for everyone. I hope and pray this can be settled with honour respect and win win for all.

* United Kingdom

Please someone explain!
On August 7th, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

The docket is unclear. I understand that the defendants had asked for a stay of all cross examination and proceedings. The way I understand it, the judge denied the stay requested by the defendants. The question that I would like to ask is what happened to the defendants motion to question His Highness. Was that Motion also denied? If it is true that this motion was also denied, then do the defendants have any further choices. Will they either have to give up or go for the trial?

* Canada

No the judge said there was
On August 15th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

No the judge said there was no emergency for a special sitting and that the motion should be presented on 23rd August at a normal sitting. There is no stayof all examination [just think of the cost, 4 days of examination, of lawyers, transcripts, court reporter, rental of conference facilities etc... but the motion can be re-introduced on 23rd August if the defendant decide.

* Canada

WE ALL ARE STEADFAST IN OUR BELIEFS
On August 7th, 2010 nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YA-ALI-MADAT, Mr. News Editor, Mr. Soulmate, Mr. ZAK, Mr. Karim, Mr. Muhammad, Mr. Bloglaw, Mr. Follower, Mr. Panjebhai, Mr. Alibhai, and all other contributors! I am taking some steps backwards today simply to say we all are conscientiously, devotedly, and religiously acknowledging our special bond with MHI. We all are steadfast in our beliefs.

I am off the thread of the topic. Therefore, I apologize to you all. I have submitted my comments to Ismaili.Net as well Vancouverite. Whatever I wrote was in accordance with my conscience. I have no intention to hurt anybody, especially Mr.MK, Mr. Nagib Tajdin, and Alnaz Jiwa….. My criticisms are based on my honest interpretation. When I read any antagonistically notes; I prefer to read both the sides – I could become judgmental or emotional but in sincerity I am not rebuking, reprimanding, telling off, and/or chastising the writers.

If I have hurt anyone knowingly or unknowingly, I beg for your forgiveness. This Court Case is complex and controversial. I hope all these complexity is removed and we see a fast resolution, Ameen! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Faith, Love and Truth
On August 7th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

All those who have read the Legal Documents sworn by the defendants here, we can see the defendants' faith, love and seva for our Beloved Hazar Imam is "very strong". They are not His enemies. The main issue in the minds of many Murids of Hazar Imam is, how the leaders are performing or following guidance from the Imam? If any "Murid" in the community stands up and opposes the performance of these leaders, should not be treated as enemy of Hazar Imam. These leaders should sit down and improve the situation. Out of 15-20 million ismailis, approximately 100,000 have read the legal documents filed by the defendants, which have been presented on this site. Many Ismailis are not aware of the real truth. Ismailis should be more open-minded, this would not affect one's faith. Times have changed. It's not the old way of just being silent, being fearful that one is commiting a sin!!!. I always keep in my mind one particular Saying of our Beloved Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is that, "Say what is true, although it may be bitter and displeasing to people". Thank you.

* Canada

@Yasmin
On August 10th, 2010 Amin (not verified) says:

Very well written. if the legacy of the past Ismailis is to be kept alive and the public statements of Mowla are to be followed, then all those leaders who do not exercise concern for the Murid's well-being, including being candid with them, should be exposed publicly so that we can mold this community in the image of a meritocratic society.

* Seychelles

@Yasmin
On August 9th, 2010 Nick (not verified) says:

Very well written....indeed no one can be an enemy of our beloved Hazar Imam after giving his/her Bayyat to him as we all pray day and night to Allah (SWT) to keep our Imaan Salaamat on Siratal Mustaqeem. Ameen.... Now remains the BIG question of these leaders performance? Insha'allah things will change and God willing soon.

* Canada

Faith, Love and Truth
On August 11th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Nick, Amin and Bloglaw. Thank you for your kind words. Our faith and love for our Beloved Hazar Imam will always bring us "happiness and peace". Ameen.

* Canada

PLEASE REFRAIN FROM YOUR ILL-COMMENTS
On August 10th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat, Concerned Momin! Your level of mannerism is very low. We are not concerned who is the actual the person writing under the aliases. It does not matter. Your post is very bias, provocative, and offensive. If you know the actual person who is writing under the alias name, please kindly keep it to yourself. You have stooped very low. Please refrain from this hateful propaganda. You are infringing into punishable territory. Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

You have hit the proverbial
On August 8th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

You have hit the proverbial nail on the head. I am sure that those 100,000 have discussed this case with their friends and family and so millions are aware concerned. I pray that implementation and performance of guidance by MHI will be improved and that this case will be settled soon Ameen

* United Kingdom

Nizar Ali K. Shivji August
On August 6th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Nizar Ali K. Shivji August 5, 2010 - 7:10 PM
Ya-Ali-Madat, Mr. Bloglaw! This reply is in reference to your post dated August 05, 2010 – 04:49 PM. Addressed to the News Editor and me. A simple question to you, if I want to launch a complaint against you on bad behavior in Jamatkhana, will I get an audience with Mowlana Hazar Imam? Why are the Defendants bent on having an audience with Mowlana Hazar to squeal on Mowla’s appointed Ismaili Institutional member? When there is no reason for this call! As far as I am concern, this is no longer an unprecedented set of circumstances. The opportunity was given to the Defendants like I have said earlier, the Defendants shamelessly moved away. The defendants still have an open opportunity to salvage Imam-Murid relationship. The onus is on them!!! I think you should read the written directions received from the Court: The Honorable Madam Justice Heneghan dated 04-AUG-2010 directing that “I will first address the Defendants’ request for a special sitting of their stay motions. This request is denied. The mere submission of a letter pursuant to Rule 35 of the Federal Courts Rules, SOR/98-106 (the “Rules”) ………. With my good prayers, Allah Hafez! Nizar Ali K. Shivji

Reply News Editor August 5, 2010 - 8:50 PM And don’t forget the penalties she said she would impose for not completing the examinations by deadline!

Reply bloglaw August 5, 2010 - 10:48 PM

Thank you. This case, the situation and set of circumstances are unprecedented. There is no comparable precedent in our history. So we cannot compare it to a complaint as you suggest.

Their request for a meeting is not to squeal as you put it against the top leader/s. There is enough of squealing in court documentation and in posts. They need guidance direct from the Imam because and they have good reasons as you know. I will not go into them as they have been aired in earlier posts.

Essentially they are trying to use the court process opportunity to meet their Imam for 5 to 10 minutes and they are prepared to do this at any time and place which the Imam chooses. If granted, in those 5 to 10 minutes I assume they will seek forgiveness, and ask Imam for Guidance they need. They may speak for 3-5 minutes and Imam 5-7 mins. The letters exhibited from the defendants are also mindful of protecting the Imam and saving costs, time and in the interest of expediency.

I am not surprised by the courts decision on their motion nor would I draw any conclusion from it. Franky that was not unexpected and the motions can proceed at a general sitting.

However it is sad that all this money, time and energy is not instead used instead where it is much needed (in our institutional programs & initiatives globally)

* United Kingdom

The latest court move
On August 7th, 2010 Alibhai (not verified) says:

Personally I feel that the last court move is actually in favor of the defendants rather than the plaintiff presumably Dr Sachedina.
Meeting with Hazar Imam at this point would have brought an earlier closure without dissecting the case of forgery.
We would have never known whether indeed the forgery happened or not.
Then it would not be a fair judgement for the defendants. If any one else other than defendants is guity ,justice must be done and we must know about it.
If indeed Hazar Imam is the real plaintiff he would have definately agreed to meet to bring the earliest settlement no doubt about that.
I have a feeling this case is going to go to it's fullest and plenty of revelations are ahead.
Mawla is playing His Leela. Glad tidings for real believers and truthful momins!!
We will be witnessing something remarkable in our lives.

I hope we already have 313 momins globally who are thinking on the same correct religious truths in unity and are sharp like snakes and humble like pigeons!!( ISMS 's firman regarding the timing for Zahurat Ref: Kalame Imame Mubin Ismalia Association for India Bombay Publication Gujarati book)

May be time for Zahurat!! He alone knows the result.
Just speculating!!

* United States

ALLAH IS ALL KNOWING!
On August 6th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat, Mr. Bloglaw! I have decided not to debate this issue extensively. Am I right in assuming that the Defendants are gradually moving away from their stance? If the Defendants’ sole purpose in seeking the audience is to beg Mowla’s forgiveness then I hope and pray that Mowla in His infinite mercy, grant the Defendants the audience they are seeking.
I can neither read the minds of the defendants nor I can predict the outcome of this court case but it appears, it will come to resolution before the verdict is pronounced! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

It seems you misread and or
On August 6th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

It seems you misread and or misconstrued the motions and related documents and calling the defendants shameless etc in wanting to question MHI. As you can see their position and request for an audience has clearly remained the same. We don't have to read minds but like me to read all the documents and posts carefully and with an open mind and objectively. If we all do just that and give our views then I am sure the case will be settled sooner rather than later YAM

* Germany

Settlement Offer,& objective
On August 6th, 2010 BLOGLAW (not verified) says:

Settlement Offer,& objective analysis, more questions, some speculation and a conclusion

1 Mr Gray was asked to relay direct to the Imam a request for a 5 to10 minute meeting, and to disclose the name of the lawyer who attended the affirmation with the notary, and to confirm "precisely" when (& if) Mr Gray obtained instructions directly from the Imam ?

2 Mt Gray says
a. Tajdin and Jiwa have expressed a desire to abide by the wishes of the Imam (not new)
b. Leadership is failing to communicate the true situation to the Imam (Not new)
c. MHI has authorized the lawsuit (The question was when?)

3 B Gray adds that the above is not warranted because he has personally and alone spoken to MHI (when?) and MHI has made it very clear to him that
a. MHI wants the distribution of these books to be stopped. (He does not specify book/s or when he got direct instructions from the Imam)
b. MHI considers this to be a serious matter for the Imamat (Would MHI say for the Imamat ?)
c. MHI did not consent to the publication of Farmans by Mr Tajdin or anyone else ( Imam has consented for IIS to publish 2 volumes of Farmans and Speeches. Does this therefore imply that there is consent for distribution to Ismailies by Ismailies is accepted, Mr Gray is not specific or are the last 3 words an error and Mr Gray is not saying what he means. He is an eminent lawyer and his letter will have been pre approved by his client-MHI )

4 B Gray “believes” that MHI was alone with one personal secretary, a lawyer (Mr Gray knows and sent), and the notary when MHI signed the affirmation (He refuses to name the lawyer or the secretary and seems uncertain. Why not be specific on a critical & central issue in the lawsuit?)

5 Mr Gray adds that all these facts will be proved if he has to. (Why wait and not settle the case and save substantial costs and time ?.)

6 Mr Gray says he had a “recent” conversation with MHI. During that MHI informed him he was aware of emails & request from Tajdin. (What about emails from Jiwa ? This implies he had other discussions with MHI but he is not prepared to say when ? or any circumstances surrounding the meetings/conversations. He is understandably saying he can not disclose the nature on discussions and his instructions)

7 Mr Gray then says MHI said to him that the propose conditional meeting will take place in the context of the Imam-Murid relationship (Would Imam ever insist on conditions before having mulakat with any murid? This begs the question if Mr Gray understand and fully appreciates what is this relationship ? Would Imam say this to Mr Gray and then go on to explain so there is no misunderstanding or misinterpretations? Imam is very specific indeed.)

8 Mr Gray says Imam informed him personally that MHI considers the wrongful publication and distribution a serious matter. (Mr Gray does not mention Imamat here? He adds here “distribution“ of books. He is again not specific. When was he informed directly by the Imam?).

9 Mr Gray adds MHI expressed his desire to be forgiving and accept apologies from Tajdin and Jiwa (Imam is Rehman and Rahim. Imam knows the defendants know this and The defendants have also reaffirmed their position. So would Imam ask Mr Gray to give this message to Tajdin and Jiwa)

10 Mr Gray then says MHI “indicated” (not confirmed) to Mr Gray that Tajdin and Jiwa should agree unconditionally to
a. Acknowledge MHI has copyright to his Farmans (this is not at issue if we exclude our belief that Farmans for Ismailis in their personal beliefs include divine revelations by the Imam and his authority in continuing the Tawil and Talim of the Quran and final message of Allah to mankind.)
b. Tajdin and Jiwa have infringed the copyright (Tajdin and Jiwa are saying that they are following specific farmans from the Imam and they are seeking direct guidance & instructions from their Imam which they have not received so far) .
c. Deliver up the remaining books (Which book ? Books? He is not specific
d. Agree to an injunction from further copying or distributing Farmans (Books were distributed by Ismailies only to Ismailies. If they agreed to stop, Imam would certainly trust them as they sevadari’s farman bardari’s and because of their bayat. Would Imam personally instruct Mr Gray to insist on this last pre-condition before he grants a 5-10 minute audience).

11 If Tajdin and Jiwa unconditionally & immediately agree then MHI has assured Mr Gray he will grant a personal audience so that;
a. They can explain their actions
b. They can ask for forgiveness
c. They can make whatever representations they would like to make
(This above does not make any sense and is inconsistent coming from an eminent lawyer. He knows a meeting is requested for 5-10 min to seek specific guidance, which he is fully aware of. This shows Mr Gray has not or does not want to understood or appreciated fully the reasons behind the defendants requests or the Imamat and the Imam-murid direct relationship)

12 Mr Gray says MHI asked him to inform Tajdin & Jiwa that MHI proposes to continue the lawsuit to the end if needed (Would Imam have asked MR Gray to say something like this in his recent conversation with MHI. Does he or Mr Gray need to say so? What does it mean or how does it benefit a settlement)

13 Mr Gray speculates (in his opinion) MHI would not want to meet a murid if the murid is ignoring his requests (i.e farmans/Instruction/guidance). (Mr Gray does not fully appreciate Ismailism which is understandable. This explains some of the responses & comments)

14 Mr Gray says MHI has said to him that a meeting in the context of an Imam – Murid relationship cannot occur unless Tajdin and Jiwa first immediately agree unconditionally to the 4 pre conditions for a meeting

(Mr Gray may well have misunderstood or misinterpreted information communicated to him. I wonder who if anyone is approving these letters from the lawyers which are being replied in a matter of days. Usually the lawyer will take instructions, draft letters he proposes to send and get client approval and they send the letters. This is especially so when a lawyer is dealing with such cases & clients as in this case where the client also has a legal unit or a legal team )

Therefore are the defendants not right or concerned in seeking guidance and instructions direct from the Imam in a 5 to10 minute meeting in the context of their individaul Imam – Murid relationship ?

* United Kingdom

Will Mr Gray recognise Sachedina as Agakhan?
On August 6th, 2010 Alibhai (not verified) says:

May be Gray has never seen Hazar Imam and Possibly he thinks Sachedina is the Agakhan.
He is not Ismaili So he is not expected to recognise Agakhan.
Just as Mr Jiva is not expected to know Sachedina.
All lawyers are not well informed about everything because of the varied field of interest.
Just an impulsive Q

* United States

:) I know you are jesting
On August 7th, 2010 murid (not verified) says:

:) I know you are jesting but many and especially the self confessed one sided will take you literally.We are all challenged by many frutrations and emotions .

Mr Gray in this case I understand is one of the best lawyers on copyrights which includes religious copyrights, should know better and ensures he knows.

In the letters exhibited Mr Gray said Mr Jiwa was not avilable on 30 July 2010, when he was. What kind of professional courtesey, care attention and respect is he showing to another lawyer - Alnaz ?

* United Kingdom

News editor says he cannot recognise Dr Sahedina ?
On August 5th, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

News Editor July 31, 2010 - 1:42 PM

I, Salim Jiwa, would state under oath that I have had no correspondence directly or indirectly with Dr. Sachedina and that I’ve never spoken with, communicated with him in my life. I would not recognize him if I saw him since I have never met him. Any suggestion to the contrary is a blatant lie.

Reply by Bloglaw: Surely Mr Editor, your journalistic instint and 30 years of experience will have made you do some research on Dr Sacedina since the start of the Lawsuit and you will have seen his pictures. He is at most if not at all Darbars and in our institutional websites and pictures. I simply do not understand how any murid cannot recognize the CEO who is heading all our five major institutions (LIF, ITREB, DJI, AKDN, and IIS) let alone an Ismaili journalist of 30 years who has been covering this story & unprecedented lawsuit since at least April 2010.

* United Kingdom

dilawar.momin@gmail.com
On August 5th, 2010 Dilawar H Momin (not verified) says:

Mr. Bloglaw, I think 90% of our jamat doesn't recognise who Dr. Sachedina is. They don't have to. Nobody cares who the CEO is. Ismailism is about the recognition of the Imam of the time, not the recognition of CEO.

* United States

Ismailism is foundationally
On August 7th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Ismailism is foundationally about recognition of the Imam and a whole lot more covering the spritual and the material aspects of our lives including knowing our leaders. Imam as you will know has also said that we must know and ask our leaders.

I think you are very wrong that nobody cares who is the head (Chairman/CEO) of for example ITREB. We should all care very much The head is Dr Sachedina and all national ITREBs report to him through the ITREB global head office in Aiglemont. ITEB is mandated for all Tariquah and spiritual foundational matters for the Jamat.

I think you are wrong that 90% would not recognise Dr Sachedina. If that were true then the leaders are failing in their duty to make sure the Jamat know them, that they are accessible, and available. This is also goes for all national and local leaders

* United Kingdom

Bingo.
On August 5th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

"Ismailism is about the recognition of the Imam of the time, not the recognition of CEO"

Precisely. If the CEO says something that doesn't correspond to what the Imam has said, then the true ismaili will always follow the Imam. No matter the hurdles.

Re: Believer's above post
On August 5th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, brother Believer! Touché ! Very well put! Thank you!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

News editor says he cannot recognise Dr. Sachedina
On August 5th, 2010 Concerned Momin (not verified) says:

Bloglaw:

I would not waste my breath on Mr. Editor, he is special!! Curiosity killed the cat ----
Truth Prevails !!!!!

* Canada

Does Hazar Imam not meet or
On August 4th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Does Hazar Imam not meet or give guidance to Murids who do not follow his requests or guidance ?

Does Imam impose preconditions or conditions precedent before he meets his murids where he knows precisely why a murid has requested a meeting, and followed the process of submitting a memani and request for a meeting or guidance?

It is very sad that there is so much less of cooperation, courtesy, and intent to save cost and time in the conduct of this lawsuit or of its settlement.

This is expected in normal commercial litigation. Not in a case where the Imam is suing his followers for distributing & sharing his Farmans to his followers.

In this lawsuit Instructions from the Imam and or his institutional leaders to Mr B Gray, do not reflect the values, ethics and our institutional ethos which our Imam wishes and guides us to follow, to share and to practice.

Not to say that there was not a contradictory and conflicting settlement offer made by Mr Gray’s email of 24 may 2010, to Mr Tajdin and Mr Jiwa. Does that email it really read like what we would expect from the Imam to his Murid, or indeed an eminent lawyer who really wanted this case to be settled. Watch this space for a reasoned analysis based on the emails from Mr Gray in May 2010.

* United Kingdom

dilawar.momin@gmail.com
On August 5th, 2010 Dilawar H Momin (not verified) says:

Dear Bloglaw, The answer to your first question is NO. He can not meet all His murids personaly as they are in millions who does not follow His request or guidance or Farmans.

The answer to second question is YES. When He knows precisely why a murid has requested a meeting He can impose preconditions.

Mowla is Rahim, Raheman, Al-Aalim but He is also Al-Muzil, Al-khafid, Al-Muntaqim, Ad-Darr. And we see all His attributes manifested in this case.

* United States

@Bloglaw
On August 4th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Very well written. I have also mentioned in my previous post that, there are always obstacles if a Murid wants to meet our Beloved Hazar Imam, and it is very unfair and sad. If the defendents would have been allowed to meet Hazar Imam without any conditions, both sides would have saved cost, time, etc. Thank you.

* Canada

Should we expect less from Leaders who are volunteers?
On August 4th, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

Meritrocracy or Mediocracy !, I refer to Mr Shivji’s last week when he said to me “…I beg to differ regarding your citation on CEO or any conglomerate because Ismailism is a religion…” Do you not agree that Ismailism encompasses and includes management, governance and institutional reporting institutionally and to the Imam.? The Imam has set up institutions for this very purpose and has given the best guidance and guidelines to be followed by the leaders (CEO’s), of those institutions be they volunteers or paid staff ? Do you not agree that AKDN is a conglomerate.
When he says “…on other hand, the CEO of any conglomerate is paid for his services, his employment is always on line, and his survival depends on the productivity. Poor performance means instant removal from the office! …” Are you therefore saying or meaning that those leaders who are working as volunteers and are not performing or following guidance should not be changed if they do not change ? If so, I don’t agree and nor do top 35 global leaders (CEO’s) who include leaders of NGO’s (non government organizations) and NPO’s (not for profit organisations/charitable institutions & service providers).
We should not expect any less from our top leaders who are volunteering time and knowledge. We should in fact expect more of and from them. Performance processes, reporting, pre/post evaluation and guidance from the Imam is specific, detailed and the best. The challenge is effective implementation
Any NGO or NPO including religious institutions expects and accepts less from leaders who are volunteers, then there is no question that mediocrity will progressively spread across the whole organization. which will then become less meritocratic and more mediocratic.
Mr Shivji, you are not far regarding my possible credentials but in my view what matters is my contribution not credentials.

* United Kingdom

Mr. Grey’s offer to defendants
On August 4th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

The story of a five minutes meeting offer by Mr. Gray with the prior written conditions of total surrender by defendants is considered not palatable at all to some of the Ismailis I met here. I too think it’s another ploy or trick from the plaintiff.
If the real plaintiff is Aga Khan( Hazar Imam), why Mr. Gray can not go one step further and arrange a phone call of just a couple of minutes from Hazar Imam to Nagib or set up a meeting between the two without any precondition. This step will obviously make the defendants flat, and also remove even an iota of doubt from the minds of all the Ismaili Murids about the real plaintiff

* Pakistan

Mr. Grey’s offer to defendants
On August 4th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

100% agree with you. But what can you do with stubborn persons?? It would have been so simple to resolve the case with a meeting with Mowla. It's waste of time, of money and the reputation of the community is at stake. All our kriyas went public with the meaning of mehmani, taliqa, farman, bayat etc...

* Canada

Imam is not interveneing yet Why ??
On August 5th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Rabya. I would add that the fact that no longer will Leaders of the future be able to use sensititivies as a reason not to act and hide behind that proverbial cloak so to speak. There will be clarity, transparancy. meritrocrity, and this is one of the the catalyst.

Imam I feel wants everyone to know who we are and for all Ismailies to be able to articulate our faith and be comfortable with our identity with no conflict between our faith and intelect. We must be proud of who we are and have less reason to fear reprisals as we did during dawr al satr.

This is a part of the reason maybe Hazar Imam has not intervened to close this case as he would have earlier. There is much wisdopm in this as we will all realise in time. Imam knows and knows best.

* United Kingdom

Mr Gray's offer
On August 4th, 2010 Alibhai (not verified) says:

I agree.
By making the defendants accept that the plantiff is Hazar Imam, Dr sachedina wants to clear up possibility of future personal litigation of himself.
I firmly believe defendants are being rightly guided by Mawla's Noor.
They should stick to their exemplary faith and be patient.
Mawla is holding their hands in batin.
Truth will prevail.
I have for the first time completely read all the affidavits and exhibits by defendants and seems crystal clear their intentions are pure.
They are not malice people as portrayed by Vancouverite in their hate language which itself is so non Islamic.
There is no substance in any of their posts except slanders
The defendants on the contrary have the "Love" for Mawla of the degree of "Gopis" in Krishna Avtar!
They are withstanding their test of faith very steadfastly.
I pray Mawla to bring them through with his immense grace and mercy. Aameen.
Most people are not finding enough time to read all the affidavits and expert analysis reports and are making quick judgement without using intellect and hence are not being fair to the defendants.
I think one should look at the facts objectively and appears crystal clear that Hazar Imam cannot be the real plantiff. No way.

* United States

let's just say, for the sake
On August 4th, 2010 Jafar (not verified) says:

let's just say, for the sake of argument, if the Plaintiff is indeed the HH the Aga Khan (which I believe that He is) and it turns out to be so, then how would the defendants will be able to live from there on? I can't imagine the consequences for them...

* Canada

Alnaz, Tajdin and their
On August 7th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Alnaz, Tajdin and their families have been doing seva, are doing at great personal sacrifices. Whatever the outcome they will continue to do so whatever the outcome. And there will be change.A change for the better for the jamat in the long term whatever the outcome

* Germany

@Jafar
On August 4th, 2010 Alibhai (not verified) says:

On the other hand let us for the sake of arguement say indeed Dr Sachedina is the real plantiff And not Mawla
Then how will he live from there on?
I can see only everything positive coming out of that.
Real momins' faith will get a big boost.
All intellectuals will develop faith based on intellect.( Intellect is another facet of faith)
Corrupt leaders will all get their message.
Every leader will work with more conscious and not just blindly agree without proper reasoning and rationale.
We will have right leaders in future who will be credible persons
Our institutions will have quality,credibility and trust of the jamat.Our Imam is counting a lot on them.
Today Jamat is not trusting the the leaders because they do not see or feel that justice is being done.
There are lot of power greedy people in positions of authority who do not like being told anything.
No murids have any problem with Mawla. It is the leadership actions and attitudes that frustrate them.
True momins find Their Imam with them in batin alll the time so they have learnt to deal with the system even when witnessing open injustice and keep going.
However some are not able to accept the system and if they show any frustration or point out the weaknesses they are thrown out and blacklisted.
So eventually for most of the time people decide to remain as bystander and thus promoting a more and more ineffficient leadership
(Napoleon said…
"The world suffers a lot. Not because of the violence of bad people, but because of the silence of good people!"

If you speak up you are considered an evil and Hazar Imam's enemy!!
I think Hazar Imam is of course is aware of all this (London Firman of GJ validates that) and he is going to fix it by this unprecedented event which will set so many wheels back to normal settings!
Otherwise he would have just made a one minute phonecall to the defendants and the things would have resolved.
He is all mighty
But there is a big reason why it has not happened not to just punish these two murids who have printed his firmans!
Imam's every word and action have very deep meanings.
He is Akle kul.
Nothing is unknown to him.
"Bhagvan na ghare der Chhe pan Andher nathi"
" There may be delay by him from our perspective but his justice is always perfect"
I have faith justice will be done.
He loves his murids more than any murid can love him anytime.
He is Raheman and Rahim
these 2 defendants do not even have their lawyers.
Mawla is their Kazi (lawyer or judge)and friend. trust my words.

* United States

dilawar.momin@gmail.com
On August 5th, 2010 Dilawar H Momin (not verified) says:

Alibhai, the question Jafar asked is different. Read it again and answer his question.

* United States

@ Dilawar Momin
On August 5th, 2010 Alibhai (not verified) says:

In answer to your Q. regarding “ for the argument sake (hypothetical) if indeed Hazar Imam is the real plaintiff. How will defendants go from there?”

I am not any one among the defendants and I do not personally know any one of them I live in USA, but from what I learnt about them from their work and affidavits and their Website I presume they are great “Aashiq” of Mawla and I can only “guess” how they will go from there.

This is a mere speculation and I could be wrong. But since you insisted I must answer the question I do not want to shy away.

I think if they confirm that indeed Hazar Imam is the real plaintiff defendants will humbly submit themselves completely with their “Jan, Maal, Aal ,Aulad”as they promised in their affidavit.
That is their self, their entire wealth their children and grandchildren to the feet of Hazar Imam in his service what they used to call “Sirbandhi” Fulfill all conditions of the lawsuit demands. And ask for his forgiveness.
You become nothing.

Hazar Imam may accept Sirbandhi as a token or in reality it is His prerogative
Nagib and Alnaz are only humans they made a big mistake but since their intellect pushed them to query what appeared and proven by experts as forgery they went ahead to understand it without one minute losing their faith in Mawla. Intellect is another facet of faith.
Well it all turned out to be different, they were wrong the experts were wrong! Sorry! They did not murder anyone!
But it was only their passion to study and print Mawla’s firman, which they believed as blessed by Mehmani incident that they strongly felt they had to do.
To them that was a Fimanbardari!
Mawla believes in pluralism he is going to understand their point of view. He is Rahem Rahimi.
He will forgive for sure since he is Divine.
“To err is human and to forgive is Divine”
Alnaz and Nagib should at this stage feel really blessed that indeed they in reality were able to surrender everything that is Mawla’s back to him.
What an opportunity! Who gets to do that!
Shukhar!
Start from a scratch new beginning!
Wow!
Think of Nusseiri and be Mawla’s ever-ardent murids.
Nusseiri was a regular soldier in Hazrat Ali’s army
Initially he thought Ali was just a regular commander but one day he had a MARFAT AND HE REALISED Ali was Allah!
He became ecstatic at the discovery and in his intense love started shouting
“AliAllah”
“Ali Allah”
Hazrat Ali heard him and asked him to shut up.
Nusseri was naïve, he shouted more passionately and fell in Ali’s feet
Hazrat Ali became upset and sacrificed his head!
Salman Farsi came with a request to forgive him so Hazrat Ali forgave him and revived him
The minute he was alive he again shouted “Ali Allah”.
He asserted, whatever little doubt he had is now cleared since you can give life to a dead person you must be Allah!
So Ali told him once again not to declare since people are not ready for such a declaration.
But he was crazy he again shouted the same slogan.
Hazrat Ali once again punished him by cutting off his head but again on request of other murids he was revived
This happened 70 times
Finally there was a divine declaration
“Nusseiri is a true Momin”
He survived and his successors were immensely blessed
No accounting on the judgment day for his entire generation.
Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah mentions this anecdote in his firman
KIMubin part 1
Ismailia Association of India publication
It is in Gujarati.

Nagib and Alnaz must take inspiration from the above story and accept the verdict.
I do not recommend them to keep repeating, “firman printing” without written permission but just stay cool.
As long as they love Mawla they have nothing to fear in this world (firman ISMS)
They will be fine.
Mawla will bless them immensely in their spiritual life. Since he knows their intentions are not malicious.
The defendants don’t seem to be the kind who will lose their faith and run and backbite religion or Hazar Imam once heir doubts are cleared
Their faith seems very resilient
They are like mountains their faith cannot be shaken by this incident.
May be Mawla chose them for this event because of their staunch faith.
They should consider themselves closer to Him.
People have short memory they will forget.
This is my speculation. I could be dead wrong!
I am neither of the defendants but an ordinary Ismaili with ordinary intellect.
The outcome is going to be positive no matter which way it will go since it is happening at the will of Hazar Imam. No one must doubt this.
I am a strong believer, in my Hazar Imam.
Thank you for asking me to reply.

* United States

faith of ardent Murids
On August 7th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Ali bhai;

You have cleared almost everything about any doubt one can raise about the faith of defendants. Though you have very well covered the faith part of the defendants, I am much more impressed with the story of Nuseri, which very few Ismailis are aware of.
True, it is covered in the Farman book of Maulana Sulatan Muhammad Shah prited by Ismailia Association in first part of Kalam-Imam-e- Mubin prited in 1950.\
May be Nagib and Al-Naz are passing through such severe Kasoti.

@Alibhai
On August 4th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Very well said. There is no "Trust between the Jamat and leaders", and there has to be a "change". Our Beloved Hazar Imam is "Raheman and Rahim, He loves His Murids more than any Murid can love him anytime, He never ever fogets a Murid he or she who performs "Seva" for Him especially when the Murid has good intentions, He has sacrificed His entire life for us". Thank You.

* Canada

Why is the Plaintiff's Lawyer Acting So Guilty?
On August 1st, 2010 Perplexed (not verified) says:

From what I can piece together of the timeline around the affirmation and the settlement offer, the Plaintiff Lawyer's actions are very odd towards the Defendants:

a- An affirmation from the Imam is announced by the Lawyer Mr Gray
b- A photocopy is provided to the Defendants along with a threat that it will be circulated in public if they don't surrender (how bizarre and unprofessional!)
c- The Defendants ask if the Lawyer has spoken directly with the Imam
d- The Lawyer dodges the question for many days (Strange!)
e- The Defendants ask for a 5-minute meeting and agree to comply with any direct instructions of the Imam.
f- The Lawyer taunts the defendants and dares them to get the affirmation signature verified, yet...
g- The Lawyer does not provide the original affirmation document to the defendants
h- The Defendants again ask for more information about the circumstances of the Affirmation and for the original
i- The Lawyer does not provide details of the affirmation Lawyer or Notary for defendants to verify, but..
j- The Lawyer announces a settlement offer where the Defendants must pre-agree to all the main terms of the Lawsuit and themselves acknowledge the authenticity of the case in order to start scheduling a meeting with the Imam.
k- Much later, an original of the affirmation is lent to the defendants
l- The expert report then shows that the signature on the affirmation is a fake.
m- It later turns out that there were 3 signed copies and one could have been given to the defendants all along?
n- When it comes time to file the Plaintiff's motion, the Lawyer does not use the affirmation as evidence, and merely puts it in as an exhibit thus reducing it's weight in the eyes of the law.

Step 'n' above confirms the impression given in step 'b' above that the affirmation was more of a PR tool than a legal one.

The timing and content of that settlement offer in step 'j' above is perplexing and makes the Plaintiff party look guilty!! It's the kind of settlement offer that, if it came from an impostor, would brush all the forgery and slander issues under the rug.

The Plaintiff party knew that the defendants had been sincere in their intentions with the Faman book, but that there were authenticity questions around all requests to stop the work. Why would the Plaintiff's representatives then act in such a suspicious way as to reinforce the defendants' doubt?

Two possible outcomes
On August 1st, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

There are no guarantees in life. From a rational point of view, the final decision will rest the judge of the Federal court. If the Defendants finally win, the matter will be hopefully over and everybody will live happily ever after just as in fairy tales. What if the named Plaintiff wins? Have the Defendants thought about their back up plan. I am humbly suggesting that the Defendants should think about such a scenario and not be high strung that the outcome is guaranteed in their favor. Only God knows what the final outcome will be.

* Canada

Latest Motion Articles
On July 31st, 2010 heritage says:

TWO new articles have been posted today with downloadable materials from the July 29th Motion:

[Defendants Ask Judge to Stop All Proceedings as the Aga Khan is NOT the Plaintiff - Copyright Lawsuit - 2010-07-31]

Discovery Request by Defendants Will Demonstrate That Imam is Not the Real Plaintiff - Copyright Lawsuit - 2010-07-31

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

NO IMMUNITY IF WE ARE WRONG
On July 31st, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat! In the name of Allah, most gracious, most merciful – Al-Fatiha.

When somebody knowingly disobeys the Farman of Mowlana Hazar Imam then he is consciously moving away from Farmanbadari. There is no excuse and this does not exempt even a member of Mowla’s Institution. And there is also no immunity for the members of the Ismaili Muslim Institution. In simple words, they have failed in their allegiance to Mowla. The Ismaili Muslim Community is diverse, and strong in their faith, loyalty, and faithfulness. But there is a remote and isolated chance that somebody with intent, decides to overlook. For that reason, it is his loss.

The Court of Laws recognizes equality and does not see aristocracy and the status of the person. It will dwell on truth and nothing but the truth! The Plaintiff’s lawyers want the defendants to apologize to Mowlana Hazar Imam so that the settlement can be imminent, enticing further with the agreement to waive all damages which are cited. Obviously, the cost for all damages would be waived and Imam-Murid relationship would be salvaged!

With my good prayers, ALLAH HAFEZ! Nizar Ali K. Shivji.

Why did the Defendants not accept the Aga Khan's offer to meet?
On July 31st, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

Vancouverite has reported that in a letter of May 24, 2010 His Highness the Aga Khan, through a message transmitted through Mr. Brian Gray, had conditionally agreed to meet with the Defendants. I cannot understand why the defendants did not then comply with the conditions in exchange for the opportunity to meet face to face with the Imam. I am truly baffled.

* Canada

Why did the Defendants not accept the Aga Khan's offer to meet?
On August 1st, 2010 Najm (not verified) says:

Absolutely agree with you Muhammad. What is the matter with these defendants? Imam forgives them so do we and they have their meeting. They need to study some farmans and speeches of our beloved Imam and not have all these conspiracy ideas in their minds. Otherwise we all can have our wrong imaginations rule us and say some Farman or Talika is not from Hazar Imam.

We forgive you brothers for your unfortunate mistakes. Move on and do positive work that you are capable of, Inshallah.

* United Kingdom

@Najm
On August 3rd, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

Did you read properly every document before saying some nonsense here.

* Canada

Can a Lawyer Supercede a Farman?
On August 1st, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

After re-reading the correspondence, the following part of Gray's letter speaks volumes:

" However this cannot occur unless you first immediately agree to the settlement terms proposed above.

As you know His Highness will shortly be in Toronto . If a meeting can be arranged in Toronto , this will be done, but His Highness will only be in the city for inside a day. If a meeting cannot be arranged at that time, His Highness will meet with you promptly thereafter."

So without any direct evidence from the Imam, the defendants were asked by a lawyer to accept all the terms of the Lawsuit before a meeting is perhaps at a later time arranged?

I don't see how a letter from a Lawyer can supercede a Farman. Or how it can reverse all the previous suspicious behaviours and forgeries.

Settlement and Superceding a farman.
On August 2nd, 2010 Dilawar H Momin (not verified) says:

Believer? Defendants could have agreed for the 5 minutes meeting with Hazar Imam with the pre-condition that they are ready to accept settlement terms provided or contingent upon that the plaintiff turn out to be Mowlana Hazar Imam and they receive instructions from Imam to stop the activities.

* United States

Re: Settlement and Superceding a farman.
On August 2nd, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

Right Dilawar, and that is exactly what the latest exhibit A from Nagib's Affidavit shows, but in the opposite order:

First, on May 16, the defendants asked for a 5 minutes meeting with Hazar Imam to receive instructions and terms from Imam to stop the activities and end the case on the Imam's terms.

Then, the Plaintiff's lawyer came on May 24th with a counter settlement offer that defendants should first settle on all terms before meeting the Imam and finding out if the case is authentic.

Subsequent pleadings by the defendants, including the latest motion, have kept their original offer open

So, are we on the same page?

Supercede a Farman? Which Farman?
On August 2nd, 2010 Dilawar H Momin (not verified) says:

What and which Farman you are talking about?

* United States

RE: Supercede a Farman? Which Farman?
On August 2nd, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

Seriously?!!... :)

Why defendants not accept 5 minute meeting
On July 31st, 2010 Jenny (not verified) says:

Muhammad, what were the pre-conditions for this meeting?
As Vancouverite states:
" Instead of accepting the offer to meet the Aga Khan in exchange for giving up the book, the defendants opted to challenge Gray to produce their spiritual leader for cross-examination under oath., (...) Gray added that the Aga Khan would not meet with the defendants unless they agreed to the settlement offered above."

The Key words here are "giving up the book" this means the Defendants would have given up the Farman that was made to them during the Mehmani, where up Mowla placed His Mubarak Hand 3 times on the Farman book, and gave explicit Farman ( the Jamat that was sitting in the adjacent hall were all witness to this)

Furthermore the whole concept of Bayat and Farman bardari would also be broken.

Aslo, knowing all along about the forgeries, why would this offer now be authentic? Vancouverite is also misquoting by saying "cross-examination" the defendants are requesting a DISCOVERY.

This is a test of the Iman of not only the defendants but sadly of the Jamat also. Does the global Ismaili Jamat really believe that our Mowla who is truly Rahem and Rahim not only initiate such a claim but also go these lenghts?

* Canada

Re: Jenny's above post
On August 3rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for your common sense and for your succinct post, Jenny!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Jenny
On July 31st, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Jenny, very well written. Our Beloved Mowlana Hazar Imam is truly "Rahem and Rahim, He loves His Beloved Murids and sacrificed His entire Life for us". Thank you.

* Canada

You are right. Why would the
On July 31st, 2010 librarian-umed says:

You are right. Why would the defendants refuse the meeting for which they are still asking for? Did the defendant not go especially from Nairobi to Toronto to make himself available to the Imam if he so chose?

Vancouverite information and interpretation is completely out of sync with reallity. The Emails and Exhibits are precise in these matters: Brian Gray wanted the defendant to sign that they accepted that the lawsuit was by the Imam first which we know now that the lawsuit has been initiated by Dr Sachedina in his personal capacity.

The statement of claim itself is quite insulting to the Imam as it removes all traces of Imamat and makes the Imam as an ordinatery novel writer who in the vocabulary of Vancouverite gives "opinions" to the Jamat. It has always been clear that Gray has no direct access to the Imam, he can not arrange any meeting with the Imam.

Condition for settlement
On July 31st, 2010 Alibhai (not verified) says:

One of the main condition of the proposed settlement is that defendants should accept in writing that the real plantiff is Hazar Imam? Why this kind of clause ever be needed by Hazar Imam if he indeed is the real plantiff? He is the "Sun" he does not need a validation. Why would real plantiff ever put such a demand?

This indicates that it is the Leader's condition so he can be saved from Truth being revealed and he embarassed?
and the whole case goes under without all of us ever knowing what exactly was the truth.And also prevent future personal litigations of the leader in this context.

If Hazar Imam wishes this case can be done in a moment but he is allowing it to go along the normal judicial process so justice is done to everyone. Otherwise he will not be called Rahim Raheman!

"Ek ne maare Shah, ek ne taare ane
ek ne Haree var aale....................
Haree anant anant - Haree anante jo swaami Shah
anante jo ant tunhi janne ji"

The result is in his hands only.His leela is infinite....

" tamaaraa bandaa te tame-hee taaro
to naam rahe Illaahee...................Haree anant.."

He will have to save his murids since he is their Mawla(God)
This is his eternal promise!
His Noor is obviously guiding them as to what step to take next.

* United States

Firmans are the diamonds and pearls to be shared as much as we c
On July 28th, 2010 Alibhai (not verified) says:

Surah Noor
"It (Surah of Light from the Quran) tells us that the oil of the blessed olive tree lights the lamp of understanding, a light that belongs neither to the East nor West. We are to give this light to all. In that spirit, all that we learn will belong to the world and that too is part of the vision I share with you. "
[Speech 25 Sept. 1979] -- Aga Khan IV"

In the light of the above speech:

I think Hazar imam would definately want his firmans to be shared and implemented as much as possible by the global jamat.

That is the reason why amended constitution does not have any restriction on sharing or printing firman.
Dr Sachedina or President saheb's affidavits do not quote any numerical reference to the clause of the constitution forbidding sharing firmans with our fellow Ismailis. Neither any exhibit validating to that understanding.

If HI was so strict on copying of firmans each of his spoken firman would have one line saying please do not circulate this firman any one doing so will be breaking copyrights of Imam.

If so I am sure no one would ever write a word anywhere on internet or in books or letters or emails.
I always hear him saying please convey my blessings to your family and jamat ( He does not add please do not write this firman to any one!)

Dr .Sachedina's affidavit in my opinion is more damaging to himself than helpful because it potrays he is in control of so many Institutions and does not seem to be giving much importance to the combined Institutional brain power Mawla has given to him as a resource at his exposure in more fair and effective functioning. ( LIF , I believe represents the brightest and the best from global jamat). I am sure these kind of institutions are created so that just one person does not become too power greedy and vain.Also Mawla has given so much importance to role of intellect.Also one of the best practises he has been emphasising is "Consultation".

His affidavits are more trying to clear forgery than justifying the very cause of the lawsuit.

Each member of LIF and IIS and Tarka board is expected to contribute of their intellect , expertise and consultation and help in this type of event which occurs once in a century and if they can make positive contribution in overting any damage to Imam or any member of the Ummah leave aside just Ismailis than they would have served the Imam in the right essence.

That is what Hazar Imam has been emphasising in his deep message of pluralism for last 10 or so years
What does pluralism mean? Doesn't it mean tolerance and forebearance?

If they fail to do so they are doing "Disservice" rather than "Service" to Our dear Imam ,in my opinion.

I would have want to see some credible affidavits from Chair of IIS ,Chair of Tarika board and Chair of Arbitration board showing to Jamat that they indeed tried everything before throwing in the towels and saying we have been after these 2 defendants to stop but they were totally lunatic.

What is the proof from Institutions of any positive effort?

Also since they learnt it is some murids' passion to do this work why not let them work in the respective institutions? After all it is all voluntary service they were offering ( $ 50 for a book of this quality cannot be making them rich leave aside bearly meating the cost) .

I see totally inappropriate apointments, qualification wise all the time in various boards .These guys could have contributed of their expertise and passion and it would be a win win for everyone.

The more I think the more I feel Mawla is not the real plantiff but indeed the leaders are.

One leader has been so fortunate to work so closely with Imam that he has started thinking Mawla is a regular Human being and he is almost like Him.To hide one lie you have to lie hundred times more , I hear that all the time.
" Ek fikar munivar tamaari chhe amne maannas rupe saaheb jaanno ho bhaai "

But Mawla is all knowing .
He alone knows why he is allowing all this to happen
He is Aklekul.
Time will show everything.
True murids will always be blessed.Aameen.

* United States

It seems almost certain that Dr Sachedina initiated the lawsuit?
On July 31st, 2010 Alibhai (not verified) says:

A five minute meeting which the defendants were begging for last 5 months was denied by the plantiff's lawyer,now the same lawyer is willing to get them a full audience with HI and no monetary charges. Why this sudden change?
The defendants are rightly insisting on the process to continue. to expose the wrong doing by the leaders.
If they accept at this stage jamat would never know the truth and his blemish will not disappear.
In jamat they will be always looked upon as Hazar Imam's enemies ,which is so aweful!
Agreed, they might have broken some rules but it was not a criminal activity to print firmans! But forgery is a criminal act I believe.Also the certificate of copyright is dated june 2010 . Is it expected to be effective retospective? strange!
Nagib's recent affidavit filed on july 30th is heart touching!
Mawla tu rahem kari ,please help your true murids.
Aameen.

* United States

@Alibhai
On July 29th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Very well written. Our Beloved Hazar Imam, "is all knowing". He "loves and cares" for us. He "never ever" forgets His Beloved Murids. Thank You.

* Canada

@ Ali Bhai
On July 29th, 2010 Nick (not verified) says:

Very Well Written "" Ek fikar munivar tamaari chhe amne maannas rupe saaheb jaanno ho bhaai " Indeed Mowla is all knowing " Al Aleem.

* Canada

Mr Alibhai. In agreeing with
On July 29th, 2010 Mimin (not verified) says:

Mr Alibhai. In agreeing with you I feel I need to clarify a few matters you have commented upon

1 Hazar Imam wants us to share his Farmans with our familiy and the Jmat. The lawsuit also confirmns that Farmans are avilable in all Jamat Khannah's even in remote locations. The first LIF announcement sayd IIS is in the process of printing Farmans which have been authorised by Hazar Imam There is no issue about Ismailies sharing and diseminating Farmans but about the defendants diseminating them in a printed form by them.

2 I think and hope you mean that Dr Sachedina and some of the leaders who are involved, not all the leaders. However I hope you mean that all the other leaders should speak up and not allow this or anything to proceed which is not in the sole interest of thre Jamat. I refer to the post by Bloglaw and Mr Shivjee on good governance and guidnce of Hazar Imam

3 There is no proof that Dr Sachedina and the Leaders in question tried everything possible. They did not do so by their own admission in their affidavits.

4 Therefore there are inappropiate appointees as you put it. The Leadership are NOT using the best people and resourses, who are all ready willing and able if given a chance.

May Hazar Imam bless all the leaders in doing their best of the best selflessly for the Jamat and the Imam. Ameen

* India

LEADERSHIP HAS TO BECOME MORE DIALOOUGE AND ACTION CENTRIC
On July 26th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat, Mr. Bloglaw! This is in reference to your post in Vancouverite dated July 24, 2010 – 12:58 AM addressed to Mr. Karim (ALIAS).

I hope I am not dealing with a university professor who is affluent in studies of business Administration, and supplement Doctrine! I was just analyzing the situation which has confronted Dr. Shafique Sachedina, Mr. Aziz Bhaloo, Mr. Nagib Tajdin, and Mr. Alnaz Jiwa. Was there any remedy available to them when one by one had to come forward to relay their interpretation? This situation is made so complex and compounded that there is no turning back. The outcome is in the hands of Allah!

I beg to differ regarding your citation on CEO or any conglomerate because ISMAILISM is RELIGION. Like you have said, the Imam is continuing the Talim and the Tawil of last and final message of Allah to mankind which is all encompassing materially and spiritually. Imam guides us through His Farman, through His Leaders, and through His Institutions. Mowla has appointed the members of His Institutions. These members are devoting their time on honorary basis. Their reward is Hazar Imam’s Grace and Mercy.

On other hand, the CEO of any conglomerate is paid for his services, his employment is always on line, and his survival depends on the productivity. Poor performance means instant removal from the office!

When I did my Business Administration, I was told to follow principle guidelines which give longevity to the conglomerate and give cheery longevity to the executive who is able to thrive and excel in our competitive world. The guiding principle has always been like you have pointed:

Where every idea in the organization has a chance to compete on equal footing irrespective of where it comes from
2 Where there is a lot of trust and very little fear
3 Where contributions matter more that credentials
4 Where control & Ideas come from inside rather that outside
5 Where Leaders reinvent and become the vanguards rather than be the old guards.

Our world demands innovation, inspiration, and organizational goal to accomplish the ACUMEN. However, we can always adopt guidelines on the basis of Democracy, Pluralism, and Meritocracy for the benefit of our instituion and the Jamat:

In concluding, Hazar Imam is our hereditary and living Imam. MHI has already impressed upon His Institutions the language of honour, truth, and respect. The Instituition and their leadership has to become more dialogue and action centric. This is the only realm of life which is the ultimate salvation in our life! ALLAH HAFEZ, Nizar Ali K. Shivji.

Nizar Sir, The problem is
On July 27th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Nizar Sir, The problem is who will make this happen & when ?. You and Bloglaw are right . We have a CEO who is controlling & managing the Kursi and all the billion dollar budgets of all the 5 of our organizations as a volunteer. He is also running his own businesses. As Murid has said that he does not think anyone can disagree that the consequences for our Jamat are disastrous IF I the CEO, Mr Sachedina for 15 odd years is not following our institutions policies processes, & guidance of the Imam

* India

WE HAVE T BE ETHICAL AND LESS JUDGEMENTAL
On July 27th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat, Momin, Sir! Foremost, we all have to be ethical and less judgemental! Any finger pointing could lead to legal issues. The Ismaili.Net is a very popular and famous website. It enjoys a very huge readership. It is also bound by ethics and laws that govern publication.

It seems you have lot on your mind. And to answer your post diplomatically, I do not have words, other than to convey my apology to you for being further from your thoughts! We should not draw any conclusion from what we have read and heard. Until it is proven, otherwise, it is all HEARSAY! We all are accountable for the right and wrong. There is no way out! Everything in moderation is acceptable, beyond that is disputable. The LAW very explicitly says that an alleged accused is not guilty until proven guilty.

Hazar Imam is Rehman and Rahim. Like His Name – KARIM, He is generous, benevolent, and all loving! I think, we should leave whatever is bothering to you in His Hands.

Mowlana Hazar Imam has created His Institutions and appointed the members for His Institutions. Consequently, these members of His Institutions are directly answerable to Hazar Imam.

Our immediate task on which we should all focus is to pray for all our Spiritual Brothers and Sisters for their Muskil Assan, good health, and happiness of every sort. By the way, many thanks for your kind words! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Everyone is innocent untill
On July 28th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Everyone is innocent untill judgement is given by the courts. I agree with you 100% on this. That is why I and Murid said if only it was true. I gave my point of view from what I know, like everyone else is giving their point of view and opinions from what they know.

It is very unfair and not right that Mr Jiwa was never approached for a meeting and there were announcements and also our Chairman Saheb's did not meet any defendants personally after the book was publised and distributed. Is that not true sir ?

I pray for all our brothers and sisters are blessed with unity, good health hapiness.and Kul mushkil asaan. Ameen

* India

OUR FARMANBADARI WILL BE CHALLENGED
On July 28th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat, Momin! we are all equal and nobody can silence us in our utterance. Cosequently, we have to be civil in our utterance, expression, and mannerism. We should not be biased and opininated because it will make us small, small in sense, our words will not carry any weight in the eye of the learned. Thus, our convincing power is dimnished even if we mean well. There will be more confusion and doubts. Later the damage control will be very difficult and will take more time, energy, and money to defuse the scenario that was created.

Mr. Nagib Tajdin and Mr. Alnaz Jiwa have been stedfast in their belief. They have done what they felt was acceptable. In our secular life, sometime we tend to make decision to the best of our ability. But that very decision could be differently interpreted. Thus, causing hurt and confusion.

I will be very honest with you, like I have said earlier, I do not have new words or any kind of words to agree with you. I am also stedfast in my belief. We all are human beings. we have our personal weakness or failing or beliefs. But sometime more you try to give in, the more it will be construed as weakness. Our FARMANBADARI will be CHALLENGED, our integrity will be questioned. And we are treated like the ritually polluted!

This situation has become a mainstream paranoia and there is no turning back. The outcome is in the hands of Allah! Now the better option is the legal course. The Canadian Court of Laws is handling this litigation. The verdict will be given in language of honor, truth, respect, and justice. The victory will always side with the truth! ALLAH HAFEZ, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Mr Shivji; In my opinion,
On July 26th, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

Mr Shivji; In my opinion, Democracy and Pluralism are processes and take time. They have different meanings and levels in different parts of the world from an Islamic perspective. Ismailies are Muslims and the Imam is continuing the talim and the tawil of last and final message of Allah to mankind which is all encompassing materially and spiritually. Imam guides us through through Farmans and also through leaders and institutionally.
Meritocracy is a principle which if used holistically, can enhance both the processes in the development and growth of communities’ civil societies and nations generally. Ismailies are a borderless community living in many different parts of the world. The challenge is not what we need to do because we have clear guidance from our Imams. The challenge for Ismailies and other muslims has been one of selfless implementation by the leadership who reflect the community as they are from and a part of the community. Therefore this is a challenge for the community as a whole.
As a result of this case I am sure that there will be change for the better which also takes time. Change is generally feared and therefore resisted. In this case we are seeing this is the. The challenge will equally be change management and management of change.

* United Kingdom

Meritocracy, Pluralism and Democracy
On August 1st, 2010 Interested in History (not verified) says:

To me, it seems concepts are being thrown around without regard to what they mean in the Ismaili context:

1. Meritocracy: The ENTIRE leadership of the jamaat (both religious and administrative) is APPOINTED by a hierarchical process where familiarity and loyalty are the criteria. There is no competitive process to determine merit. It is a medieval system from the time of Ali and well suited to a religious order. Meritocracy on the other hand is exactly that.. a social unit where leadership based on ability, determined by an objective process and well suited to the administration of an identifiable community.

2. Pluralism: Its means the acceptance and accommodation of differences in matters of faith. Contemporary Ismaili religious belief is that the word of the Imam is the command of Allah and must be obeyed unconditionally. Naturally, this does not leave any room for a divergence of views, particularly if the Imam choses to be both a spiritual and worldly leader. In other words, pluralism as a concept is irrelevant within the Ismaili doctrine, although Ismailis may want other Muslims to be pluralist so they are not ostracized.

3. Democracy: It is term to describe a situation where the ruled have a right to chose by whom and how they would be governed. Other than the selection of the 1st Caliph after the death of the Prophet Mohamed, there has never been an Islamic democratic experiment.The concept is hard to reconcile with a theocracy (as can be seem in Iran). However, for two centuries prior to the arrival of Aga Hassanali Shah in India, one branch of Ismailis, the Khojas Ismailis community used to be self-governing, including election of the Mukhi and Kamadias. Most historically Ismaili communities in central Asia (such as Afghans, Tajiks,etc) were also locally self-governing and the last time (and only time) the Imams' were worldy rulers was during the Fatimid period in Eqypt.

* Seychelles

Contextualising Mertrocracy democracy and pluralism ?
On August 5th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I refer to your comments.

Meritrocray - I agree in our context this is preached but not practiced. There is nothing wrong in having people who are commited an loyal to the cause or the objective but in our institution over the years individuals are given material opportunities and to serve based on loyalty and commitment to individuals sadly at the expense of insitutional meritrocracy

Pluralism. I totally disagree with your limted definition and that in Ismailism pluralism is irrelvant. It is live and very relavant. In all national, governmants, and organisations there are rules, ethics and ethos determined by their specific needs. In some cases by individual rulers, or consensually or democratically. Our Imam has given us the best of the best of these for today and the future. The challenge of effective implimentation has not been successfully completed by the leadership or as quickly. I hope that this lawsuit will be a catalyst of and for change.

Democracy I again totally disagree. Democracy in Islam means diffferent things to different geo religious and political denominations and interpretations. There are many countries where we have Ismaic states and democracy in some places in its infancy. There are many many Islamic democratisation examples. Of course I agree that in Islam demoracy is goverment by the Sharia and the Quran. In Ismailism once again we have guidance based also on democratic and consensual best practice globally. However these are preached by the leadership but not practiced. Democracy is a long process.

* United Kingdom

THE CHANGE IS FOR OUR BETTERMENT
On July 26th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat, Mr. Bloglaw! How many books have you read in your life time? I am unequivocally of the same mind that the IMAM is continuing talim and tawil of last and final message of ALLAH to mankind. Imam guides us through Farmans, through Leaders, and His institutions.

Regarding Democracy, Pluralism, and Meritocracy are all processes which brings equality, equal says, and accepted wisdom. The desired change will not happen spontaneously. It has taken unfathomable years for the world to be at the stage where it is now. The talim of Imam is crystal clear guidance to the Ismaili Muslim. The onus is on the Community to accept the challenge to reflect and implement the changes.

Of course, the changes will take time due to apprehension and fear to change. Our, is a borderless Community. Consequently, this characteristic inspires Ismaili Muslim to accept the doctrine. It is for our betterment! All the efforts Mowla has put in learning centers do very vividly signify His desire to better ourselves in this competitive world.

Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

New documents
On July 26th, 2010 Alibhai (not verified) says:

Umed: Ya Ali Madad

What are new documents filed on 22-9-2010 by plaintiff. What do they contain, any additional material ?
curious.

* United States

You mean 22 July? I don't
On July 26th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

You mean 22 July from Plaintiff's lawyers?

I don't think there is any new substance. Most of the documents are old ones and some email have been added. Nothing important to my knowledge.

If possible can you add all
On July 27th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

If possible can you add all the new documents so we can all read them. The lawsuit and the comments are of special interest to us because there is a traditional culture here offighting for, protecting and holding on to your Kursi - chair.

* India

COMMITTED AND UNWEAVERING
On July 26th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat, Karim! I wrote my first post in ISMAILI.NET, under the subject: My thoughts, my opinions (without prejudice) on May 04, 2010. The Ismaili.Net gave me the opening to establish myself for which I am grateful.

It is not my wish to EXPLOIT the Ismaili.Net, and use their website as a FORUM to make my point. I have been very unambiguous in my comments in VANCOUVERITE. This time I will not use your posts in Vancouverite because the time has come to move away from holier-than-thou stance.

I am human being and I have my foibles. I am not righteous and blameless but I do understand my morality.

But it pains me when somebody forgets the propriety to stoop as low as to use BBB word on my late mother neglecting the Mowla’s Farman that we are all Spiritual brothers and sisters!

Mr. BLOGLAW has been very liberal, and charitable. He is very painstakingly exercising his faith. He has scrupulously presented his opinions and answered all posts. He is committed and unwavering in his belief.

I hope and pray that the Ismaili.Net will grant me this opportunity to eradicate the false impression created in some websites.

My forethought at the present time is to a make conscientious effort in my prayers to beg to Mowla to accept our FARMANBADARI, and guide us to the right path, the path of those upon whom Allah has bestowed favors, not of those cursed ones and nor of those who have gone astray (Sura Al-Hamad – Sura 1). Ameen! Allah Hafez! Nizar Ali K. Shivji

Fatimid Coins
On July 25th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

I am just curious, as to whether the defendant in this case had received any acknowledgement from Hazar Imam of the above beautiful gift he had sent to Him. Thank You.

* Canada

Meritocracy, Plurality and Spirituality
On July 25th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Bloglaw
July 24, 2010 - 5:34 PM
Karim I understand your question. The defendants are saying clearly that Imam is not the plaintiff and Dr Sachedina forged and conspired with others and that includes Mr. Bhaloo so far. Regarding Boston they are also clear in what they are saying. They claim that the Imam gave consent to them, which has not been revoked by the Imam, and it is the Imam’s wish that Farmans made to and for his Murids are accessible by his Murids everywhere including in remote locations.
I did not mean to give you a lecture on management but was seriously asking a question and sharing some information and hoping some of the leaders will be reading the posts and may think about this too.
Regarding Mr. Shivji, I don’t think he changed his mind but is sharing his views on the post.

Mr. Shivji: Thank you for your kind words. When you say you hope I am appreciated and my purpose is served. As always, I share my knowledge, time, thoughts and feedback, selflessly with no material reward in mind and I pray I can contribute in some way to benefit our Jamat. Ameen
I agree unfortunately Nepotism, Discrimination & Materialism are allowed to win battles against. To win the war we must all do whatever it takes to move forward together starting with the settlement of this lawsuit and followed by the implementation of a top down collaborative effort & strategies.
********************************************************************************************************************************************
This is in reference to above post by Mr. Bloglaw dated - July 24, 2010 - 5:34 PM

YA-ALI-MADAT, Mr. Bloglaw! The knowledge is to share and I standby your belief. You do not have to thank me because by reading my post is in itself; the recognition of my belief. There is no place in Ismailism for nepotism, and discrimination. If these two flourish in Ismailism then we all have failed in our task to uproot them.

I am INDEPENDENT but I wish to follow my conscience, which is guiding me on right and wrong. My love and loyalty for Noor Mowlana Shah Karim Al-Huesseini Hazar Imam is endless. I am always grateful to Mowla for His Grace and Mercy!! He holds authority among us.

Noor Mowlana Shah Karim Al-Huesseini Hazar Imam is the hereditary Imam with Singular Hierarchy Supremacy. His Prouncement is our Farman. He wants the Institutional thinking based on Plurality System so that it is one voice decision similar to assembly participation. This is, indeed, giving the opportunity to all the members of His Institutions to participate rather than be a yes person. Mowla has always encouraged the plurality system, because it is gaining ground for the betterment of all His Murids, irrelevant from where they come from. Today Plurality is revolving in all spheres of humanity.

Noor Mowlana Shah Karim Al-Huesseini Hazar Imam is the ultimate reality for all Ismaili Muslim. He is our inner path enabling us to discover the essence of our being. He has stressed on Spiritual practices so that we can develop our inner life; which connects us with the divine realm (NOOR). Spirituality is a source of inspiration or orientation in life. It encompasses belief in immaterial reality or experience of the transcendent nature of the world.

Meritocracy takes us to democracy which recognizes the value of full participation within any society on strength of human ability rather than on wealth or aristocratic privilege. It is based on non-partisan system; giving opportunity to all class and to all creed. (Courtesy-Wikipedia).

Mr. Bloglaw, I will appreciate your criticism or any enlightenment if you wish to offer me.
My good prayers are with all my Spiritual Brothers and Sisters. ALLAH HAFEZ, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

"I HAVE GIVEN MY BAYAT TO HAZAR IMAM"
On July 24th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

1. Karim - July 24, 2010 - 7:16 AM (Vancouverite)
Hey, Bloglaw!
Seem’s our friend Mr. Shivji has reversed his opinion on you and has garlandised you on the Heritage site! Congratulations!
From the heading of his 2 postings, he strongly agrees with you that there’s DISCRIMINATION and NEPOTISM amongst Hazar Imams apointees, that He may have been blindsided by them as they have been practicing these acts since the inception of Ismailism. Reading his comments further, I conclude he agrees with you and the defendants that the leadership conspired jointly to forge the Imams signature on the Affirmation.

********************************************************************************************************************************************

Ya-Ali-Madat, Karim! This post is in reference to your above mentioned post in Vancouverite dated Saturday, July, 24, 2010. Foremost, you have taken the opportunity to cruise the website ISMAILI.NET. This simply suggests that you do appreciate the comments in Ismaili.net; otherwise you would not have posted 09 lines in Vancouverite. However, welcome to the reality!

I have given my BAYAT to Noor Mowlana Shah Karim Al-Huesseini Hazar Imam, unlike you NOT to the Ismaili Muslim Institutions!! I hold in reverence all the members of the Ismaili Muslim Institutions. I do not have any qualm with them.

It appears, you have not grasp the proper gist of my two posts in Ismaili.Net dated Friday, July 23, 2010. Sadly, it is your misfortune, if you wish to remain stubborn to disregard the pragmatism, and resort to finger pointing!

Mr. Bloglaw has dwelt on two words on which I incline to believe. I say yes to MERTIOCRACY AND NO TO NEPOTISM!!!

ALLAH HAFEZ, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

More trust & less fear inshahallah !
On July 24th, 2010 Murid (not verified) says:

In Vancouveritte by Karim and reply by Bloglaw
Karim July 23, 2010 - 1:02 PM
Bloglaw, Bloglaw, Bloglaw! I am stumped. I need help understanding your friends’ Affidavits. I have read it over and over again and gather Mr. Gray, Mr. Gleason, Ms. Coleman, Our Councils, ITREB, Mr. Sachedina, Mr. Bhaloo and LIF, conspired on KGB proportions and forged The Agakhan’s signature on the Affirmation in Boston. Am I reading it right?

Reply by BLOGLAW

Karim, Please be generous with your thoughts like your name. Take a step back, look at the overview and ask the following 2 questions (not who is right or wrong - We know)

What would you have done if you were in the place of Dr Sachedina on and after 4 Jan 2010 ? What would you do now?

Top leaders and CEO’s in the world today do the following and the question is whether our institutions are doing the same or similar materially and in the governance of all our institutions.

Recently the World’s top 35 CEO’s & Management Guru’s were asked what will it take for different types of organizations to be as nimble as change, and as innovative as disciplined in order to inspire individuals to deliver extraordinary accomplishments. They said that these are the organisations;
1 Where every idea in the organization has a chance to compete on equal footing irrespective of who it comes from
2 Where there is a lot of trust and very little fear
3 Where contributions matter more that credentials
4 Where control & Ideas come from inside rather that outside
5 Where Leaders reinvent and become vanguards rather than be the old guards.

Therefore how can organizations successfully address the challenges of the creative economy and to inspire people to deliver extraordinary performance and accomplishments ? Organisations & their Leadership must become more dialogue and action centric, with a “natural” hierarchy, and with a new organizational language of honor, truth, respect, & justice.

* United Arab Emirates

It would be disastrous..
On July 24th, 2010 Amme (not verified) says:

It would be really disastrous for our diverse ismaili community, if the defendants get this ruling. The consequences would cause a negative ripple effect in all the organizations and institutions, thus causing their creditability to be questioned. I agree that this would expose the corrupt, nepotistic and bureaucratic leaders (new ones will come and go...), but in the end would lead to the whole system (that the imam has been working on) to collapse.
I am not siding with the plaintiff. The announcements in khane; if they were passed without consent of the imam (In this age and time, I doubt the challenge would be plausible), would created disastrous consequences in all our institutions and organizations.
I'm sorry and do apologies if I'm mistaken, but the consequences would be more severe and dangerous than the ruling going to the defendants.

* Canada

A disaster or a mistake
On July 26th, 2010 Murid (not verified) says:

I am sorry to ask but is it not already a disaster and a serious failure of our institutional processes, guidellines, guidance and policies. Maybe & I pray that this is a one off and exceptional.

I ask this because Dr Sachedina after 4 January 2010 and before the lawsuit did not follow or exhaust these internal processes,and neither he nor did anyone else even approach Alnaz Jiwa institutionally. Especially so on a matter which is foundational and historically unprecedented. I stand to be corrected if I am wrong or have made a mistake.

I dont think anyone can disagee that the consequences are disasterous for any organisations IF I repeat IF, their CEO for 15 odd years is not following his own institutions policies processes, guidence and/or strategies.

* United Arab Emirates

It would be a brighter time for all of us.
On July 25th, 2010 Alibhai (not verified) says:

If the judgement goes in favor of defendants,everything will set right for the future of the global jamat and momin's faith will grow stonger.
The entire leadership will become alert and more responsible and assume more responsibility and will stop bullying the jamat. Meritocracy will prevail verses discrimination and partiality.Institutions will have to become more credible since Hazar Imam is counting so much on them.
Hazar Imam in Batuni way is aware of every single thing but in Zahir he lets the events take is own "Karmic" course and lets the chips fall where they have to. So everyone learns their lessons .
He could have ended this lawsuit in a second by making one 5 second phone call to Nagib and he would be in Mawla's feet in 5 seconds, so it appears from defendant's affidavits etc.
But the very fact that Mawla has not chosen to do so , there is a big reason (may be he is not the real plantiff) and only He knows what is in His planning.
I have a feeling something "big " is going to happen.
It will always be for the best for the global jamat and his momins at large.
The Truth will certainly prevail.
There will be no disaster for sure! be rest assured!
Mawla is always with the truth.
If defendants gut feeling is that they are facing a case of forgery they are doing the right thing by persuing it till they are satisfied it is or not.Their doubts are substantiated by the expert opinions and modern technology so they have every reason to persue the truth.
This is the use of intellect which is as Hazar imam has said is another facet of faith.
I urge the true momins to constantly be in Zikar so that they may be guided by his "Noor"
Their courage and true faith will certainly grant them sucess

* United States

His NOOR will always remain with us throughout the eternity!
On July 30th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat, Mr. Alibhai! Your post dated July 25, 2010, has drawn my attention.

You have very nicely applied your philosophical thoughts in this direction by saying that Hazar Imam is all knowing. He knows in BATUNI but in ZAHIRI has allowed the events to take its KARMIC course. This litigation is no way should be construed as to teach lessons to anyone. Hazar Imam is generous, tolerant, and all loving. He does not want to punish His spiritual Children! He loves His Murids and that His NOOR will always remain with us throughout the eternity! Any Court of Laws’s verdict on this litigation, should not deter us. We have to move on with our prayers that we should not be challenged on our Farmanbadari. With my goody prayers. ALLAH HAFEZ, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

@Alibhai
On July 25th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Very well written. "Hazar Imam in Batuni way is aware of every single thing but in Zahiri he lets the events take its own "Karmic"course and lets the chips fall where they have to." Thank you.

* Canada

We now know. I have read the
On July 23rd, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

We now know. I have read the latest affidavits and the statements of Law and fact. I must say that I am not impressed with the lawyers, Mr Grays nor Dr Sachedina & Mr Bhaloo in their quality of submissions so far. Nor am I impressed by the content quality of the claims and submissions. I expected them to be the best because of access to the best legal resources and advice to and within our institutions, community and the leaders personally.

The affidavits of Nagib and Alnaz are frankly better in quality, content and factually from our tariquah point of view. Mr Nagib has referred to the involvement of the IIS, a report by Nagib to Mr S Kabani (who is Vice President of the national council UK, and full time head of operations at IIS in London). The report is not exhibited and I assume that the IIS governors and heads have been involved as institutions and will have minutes. However it appears from the case so far that the IIS were not consulted before the lawsuit was filed. They were merely briefed by Dr Sachedina after the lawsuit was filed.

I can see the key challenges for leaders. They all report to Mr Sachedina who is effectively and operationally the global boss of ITREB, DJI, IIS, LIF & AKDN etc. They all report to Hazar Imam through Dr Sachedina for the last 15 years. I also see the key consequential challenges for the defendants who have no confidence or trust in Dr Sachedina and leaders in question including Mr Bhaloo.

The question of whether Dr Sahedina, Mr Bhaloo, The LIF leaders in question, or the defendants are right or wrong is not the key issue in this lawsuit.

I would like to thank the defendants and their families for sharing and for their excellent Seva to MHI and the Jamat. Thank you also for highlighting and bringing these serious issues to the attention of the Imam, the Jamat and the leadership. Your Seva and those of your families and that of Mohammed Tajdin are exemplary to say the least. I am happy to see that the TKN is working in your case. There is a flaw whereby after anyone is selected by the TKN secretariat, the institution seeking this TKN service then decides and selects that individual or not and no reasons are given to the individual (as in my case). This leads to nepotism and a command and control structure which are less meritocratic.

We must also recognise much has been done by the leadership even though arguably much more could have been done and achieved in the last 15 years (materially and spiritually institutionally and as a Jamat) May they all be blessed with more Sava and happiness. Ameen

I hope all leaders will reflect and collaboratively exercise their leadership responsibilities selflessly and in the sole interest of the Jamat and in accordance with farmans of MHI. They must speak up internally and exercise their responsibilities. Being passive and reactive internally is not in the fundamental interest of the Jamat and not in accordance with the wishes of MHI

Imam has said & reminded leaders “….It makes me extremely unhappy and it gives me much pain to feel or to hear or to learn that spiritual children have not been working together and there are differences amongst you. I would like everyone of you, whatever you agree whatever your position to work closely one with the other and to remember that as far as I am concerned every spiritual child is equal to the other spiritual child and it does not matter whether you are the President of the council or you are a tiny child in school; for me every spiritual child is equal and I do not want any divisions in my Jamat. This is fundamental to the future of our Jamat…(23 Feb 1969 official publication – Ismailia Association for Canada)

As a result of these latest affidavits and submissions. I hope and pray all leaders in every area of responsibility and influence will ask themselves what the Imam has directed them to ask every day …” Have I treated other members of the Jamat and have I behaved towards them the way my Imam has told me I should, or have I got a black heart And If I have not behaved the way I should have behaved, then let it be tomorrow I will behave the way I should have behaved, and let me never do again something which my Imam has told me not to do towards other spiritual children in our Jamat…” (14 Nov 1967 Official publication Ismailia Association for Canada)

I hope and pray that leaders at all levels will be creative and innovative in proactively & collaboratively trying to settle this case, and more important to work together in accordance with the farmans of MHI. Let our institutions & leadership live, be the, and have their being in (rather than having merely a fragrance of) our Tariquah, faith, values, traditions and ethics within our institutions.

* United Kingdom

Cross examination
On July 25th, 2010 Rattansi (not verified) says:

I would like to know on 9th through 23 august when the cross examination for both the parties will begin will the court allow regular public or anyone who wants to witness the examination be allowed to come and sit in the court?

* United States

This will be private
On July 25th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

This will be private examinations, not in court so it will not be open to the public.

can you post new entires on
On July 28th, 2010 zahir (not verified) says:

can you post new entries on court docket July 26/27

* Canada

‘YES MERITOCRACY, NO NEPOTISM.”
On July 24th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat, Mr. Bloglaw! The direct word is DISCREMINATION!! I know you are shy to say it! We have been fighting all kind of discrimination for many decades which is still on surface with all class of people. Our diverse Jamat have devoted and rendered their voluntary services to Imam and the Jamat since the inception of Ismailism.

Sadly, the nepotism has put a big dent in our thinking to share seva. Regrettably, nepotism and preferential treatment are still very strongly rooted in our culture. I am sorry to say that we are going through a phase which makes us vulnerable and unsecured if somebody is better than us!

Mowlana Hazar Imam has condoned very explicitly any kind of movement that would demean, put down, disallow, and deny His Murids the opportunity to better their status. He has stressed about meritocracy as the world has become meritocratic. He wants His Institutions to change along with the time to look for experienced Murid to serve His Institutions.

Those who are serving Mowlana Hazar Imam and the Jamat without any anticipation of reward should be staunchly supported and encouraged to continue with the seva. The nepotism or any kind of preferential treatments should be treated like a cancer.

In concluding, very well said. Thank you. ALLAH HAFEZ, Nizar Ali K. Shivji.

"MR. BLOGLAW, YOU AMAZE ME"
On July 23rd, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat, Mr. Bloglaw! You amaze me, despite all the condemnation, criticism, disapproval, and dissatisfaction thrown at you from all horizon; you have maintained your course!

You appear to be to remain cool to continue to express you thoughts as if you have embarked on a new day! You are like a legal representative who knows the course of his client but it is your belief and conviction to defend him, irrelevant of any unfortunate fall out your client may have suffered.

I commend you on your efforts! I hope, it is appreciated and serves your purpose.

It is my hope and prayers that we all come out of this litigation unscathed and united. We all have in our different ways have the desire to serve our Jamat with love and devotion.

Our goal is to make Mowla happy, and to beg His Grace and Mercy to give us courage, strength, and capability to perform ourselves with love, devotion, and dedication. Ameen!

Our motto should be forget and forgive, because the life is very fragile!!

ALLAH HAFEZ, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

@Bloglaw
On July 23rd, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Very well written. May we all Murids be united and work together and make our Beloved Hazar Imam happy. Thank you.

* Canada

HAZAR IMAM'S FARMANS
On July 28th, 2010 Begum (not verified) says:

Dear Ismaili brothern, Think. Initially the Ayats were mercifully sent by Allah through His Prophet(PBUH) on mankind for guidance. Mark, they were sent as per the situations at that particular time. I say to our elite Ismaili Community, let go this issue of unethical or ethical action by our Leaders. They will do anything to safeguard Mowla's respect. In short, Mowla guides His Spiritual children according to the changing times. So who knows His next farmans could be contradictory to His previous guidelines. In short, the murids should hunger for His day to day guidance.

YEARNING BUILT IN US TO TRUST MOWLA
On July 29th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat, Begum! I have the same opinion, we have to let go any kind of unscrupulous thoughts that may have encircled our belief. Mowlana Hazar Imam has always bestowed His blessings upon us; His guidance is for time without end which will lead us on the right path.

His PRONOUNCEMENTS are in accordance with the circumstance and deals with the time. But spiritually His Farmans are never contradictory because on whatever subject matter He has made the Farmans; the Farmans are spiritual insight for us to be weary of imminent approaching or on the way ill-fortune or how we can attain a better livelihood or defeat the poor quality of life that could have engulfed us for generations .

There has to be a yearning built in us to believe in whatever He says! Without trust, there is no foundation! ALLAH HAFEZ, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

@Bloglaw
On July 23rd, 2010 Nick (not verified) says:

Very well written and I agree with your comments, I pray that May Mowla Gives us all Haqeeqati Samaj to be humble and kind to each other and work for the betterment of our Jamat world wide so that we all can get the Rajipo and blessings of our beloved Hazar Imam. Ameen.

* Canada

We have now read all the documents submitted to the court
On July 23rd, 2010 dchandani (not verified) says:

Excellent post!
Finally all the truth is sipping out!
May Mawla bless the defendandants.
They remind me of "Nuseiri's faith".
I pray they pass their test of faith.
ameen.

* United States

We have now read all the documents submitted to the court
On July 24th, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

@ dchandani
You have said that the defendants remind you of "Nusseiri's faith". Please can you explain the terms "Nusseiri's faith". I would like to know what these terms mean. Thank you in advance.

* Canada

We don't know yet...
On July 23rd, 2010 Dilawar H Momin (not verified) says:

Dear Bloglaw, good lecture in defense of defendants. As Imam has mentioned in the Farman " as far as I am concerned every spiritual child is equal to the other spiritual child and it does not matter whether you are the President of the council or you are a tiny child in school; for me every spiritual child is equal and I do not want any divisions in my Jamat." And there fore every body has equal responsibility and duty whether he is leader or not.

* United States

Dilawar Sir; Dilawer; I
On July 24th, 2010 Murid (not verified) says:

Dilawar Sir;

Dilawer; I respectfully think Bloglaw is not defending the defendants but giving a critique of both sides. I have also now read all the documents. Everyone should.

I recall a farman by our Imam which he has repeated many times saying that we must not compromise on our faith no matter what, or to allow our faith to become that of convenience. If we all reflect over the last 20 years and read the Farmans quoted by Bloglaw, the question leaders and murids should be asking is ; where are we heading and will be in the next 25 years?

Imam has also said that we should not fear material progress nor condemn it. The serious danger is that excessive materialism & greed can become an obsession and dominate and guide our thinking. Is this happening now ? Is there a major conflict between our intellect and faith ? What should be done.

Imam reassures us that there is no reason why our tariquah and traditions should stop us from achieving material progress and much more individually and as a Jamat. We must not let go the essence while embracing change of forms.

* United Arab Emirates

Truth is Shining
On July 21st, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Umed: Ya Ali Madad

Thank you for displaying all the documents related to the case -- particularly, last affidavits filed in the court on 16th July.

Its positive impact has already been experienced by me: My lawyer friend here and two other members in the central institute in Pakistan have totally reversed their opinions and now firmly believe that Nagib is right, and it is Sachedina who is behind the case and not the Hazar Imam.

This is just the beginning, and I foresee that within a couple of weeks, Nagib’s sympathizers, who were once a minority group will soon become a majority group in the Jamat.

I am sure, such changes will soon occur in UK, Canada, and USA. Soon people will realize the truth and, even before the court verdict, Sachedina will lose the case in the eyes of Jamat.

* Pakistan

Message for Defendant's family
On July 20th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

The "Seva" you all have performed for Our Beloved Hazar Imam, He will never forsake you, but He will "Always" be with you all. Thank You.

* Canada

Farmans
On July 20th, 2010 Amin Hussain (not verified) says:

My understanding of Firmans are that they are the Imam's guidance for the Jamat. The farmans are suppose to be shared among the Jamat to better the Jamat's understanding of the tariqah and the secular life. Similar events happened in the 50s and the 70s regarding Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah's farmans; we were told that these farmans were banned per Maula's instructions. When the leaders were questioned, they stated that certain firmans were banned and the others were not. The same thing happened with our Pirs ginans. My fear is that the leadership is unable to explain the firmans and ginans and that they do not have the deeper knowledge; they also do not want the Jamat to have a deeper knowledge. I think we should ask the leadership to have these frimans printed and available for the Jamat and encourage the learder to read and obey them .

* United States

Re:- Amin Hussain
On July 22nd, 2010 Nick (not verified) says:

Very well written "I think we should ask the leadership to have these frimans printed and available for the Jamat and encourage the learder to read and obey them ," Thank You.

availability of farmaans
On July 22nd, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

i agree , however i add : IF AND when authorised by Imam - e - Zaman and made available officially by ITREB.
Allahu Alim . Allah knows best .

* Canada

Imam's Farmans
On July 20th, 2010 Majeed (not verified) says:

Amin Hussain your take on the reason as to why Farmans are not being published and directing the blame at the leadership is unfounded and far fetched. Why is it so difficult for all of us to understand that the Imam-e-Zaman is the sole authority on whether and when to publish the Farman. You are curious to read his Farmans but not willing to grasp a simple concept that if he wishes to no publish them, then we can't questions his wisdom and authority. We unconditionally submit to his will and decision and have no reason to rationalize our arguments against his order. That I believe constitutes the breach of Bayya.

* United States

Imam's Farmans ???????????????
On July 23rd, 2010 No Name (not verified) says:

I totally disagree. Leaders want us to BELIEVE that MHI decides if and when to publish Farmans.

Can you answer, why the Ismaili Constitutions of prior to 1986 actually gave the authority for Farmans to the then Association and yet they did not print any. Why did MHI remove the authority given to Association in the new Constitution of 1986 and did not give the authority to ITREB or reserved by the Imam for Himself.

* Canada

Farmans
On July 21st, 2010 Amin Hussain (not verified) says:

Majeed since you asked Firmans are the light and I believe if you read the Quran and refer to the people of Cave and their reaction to the light after they woke up from their long sleep, the same applies here. Having said that my experience happened in a group of Jamat and leadership and someone quoted Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah's firman upon which one of the council member said these are banned by the Imam and upon which I asked the President is it true and was told that you certainly allowed to read Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah's Firman and told that individual the same, so you see Majeed this what I was stating earlier about the leadership, be truthful and not just use Imam,s name in vain and get the fact straight. If we just want the Jamat to shut up by using Imam's instruction in a misguided way then God help us. Forgive me if this statement is strong.

* United States

@Amin Hussain
On July 22nd, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Amin, very well said. Thank You.

* Canada

Motion Reply Documents
On July 20th, 2010 heritage says:

Documents filed in the Motion Reply by the defendants on July 16, 2010 have been added to the latest article:

Authenticity of Copyright Lawsuit Allegedly by Aga Khan, Questioned

Most requested document:

Leading Expert's report on second letter allegedly by Aga Khan in February, proving that the "handwritten sentences" are a manufactured print, and not original handwriting. The expert is Graham Ospreay who has served as President of the Canadian Society for Industrial Security - CSIS Inc. and Chairperson of the Canadian Security Certification Authority - CSCA.

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

Affidavit of Forensic expert
On July 20th, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

This should be a very interesting document. I have not been able to read it. Would you kindly display it with your other affidavits?

* Canada

Legal & Copyright Case
On July 20th, 2010 Smartieass (not verified) says:

looking at all the great institutions which are created by HI for the upliftment,social & various causes of the jamaat, can some "educated" and "intelligent" leader who is well aware of the purpose and importance and significance of the CONCILIATION and ARBITRATION BOARD (CAB) and when does it come into a jamaati picture for a particular case of a jamaati.......:-)......has this case gone thru CAB? if not why? and if yes then why was it not solved amicably?.......

* United Arab Emirates

Leader’s knowledge
On July 20th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

Isn’t it shocking for all of us to know that a person like Mr. Bhaloo, who had been once president of National council of Canada, debased the religious significance of Mehamani in his affidavit?
I am really perplexed as to how many such leaders we have in the community having such limited knowledge of our faith.
Or, is it too much physical proximity to Imam of the Time enfeebles one’s Iman?
Only and only if one is very lucky, he gets more than one chance of personal Mehmani in his life time.

* Pakistan

Significance of Mehmani.
On July 20th, 2010 Dilawar H Momin (not verified) says:

Dear Asif, Please can you tell me how Mr. Bhaloo debased the religious significance of Mehmani in his affidavit. I read the affidavit but couldn't see it. May be, I might be blind or you might be able to see more.

* United States

@Dilawar
On July 21st, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Asif Momin had his opinion on the Mehmani issue after he read Mr Bhaloo's affidavit. I don't think Asif "would ever" have any negativeness of you, as to whether you might be blind, and he might be able to see more (quoted by you in your posting). Brother Dilawar, Heritage Website is a very peaceful and knowledgeable website, and I think we all Murids of our Beloved Hazar Imam should enjoy surfing. Thank You.

* Canada

@ Yasmin
On July 22nd, 2010 Nick (not verified) says:

Well said Yasmin " Brother Dilawar, Heritage Website is a very peaceful and knowledgeable website, and I think we all Murids of our Beloved Hazar Imam should enjoy surfing. Thank You." May Hazar Imam Bless you, Ameen...

@Nick
On July 24th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Thank you for your kind words, Ameen.

* Canada

@Yasmin and Nick
On July 23rd, 2010 Dilawar H Momin (not verified) says:

Yasmin, I have not said Asif said I am blind or any negative statement about me. I, who said I am blind as I am not able to see any where in Mr Bhaloos affidavit what Asif is claiming or his opinion about Mehmani. Yasmin, read it yourself the affidavit and try to understand what I am saying before jumping to conclusion. Yasmin and Nick, about Heritage website being knowledgeable, I will say it is a site with information. Getting access to information not necessarily make person knowledgeable and above is the perfect example of it. Hazar Imam has differentiated between good knowledge and bad knowledge as mentioned in one of the His Farman. And for your information I don’t read Farmans, I listen to it in Jamatkhana and contemplate on it. If you still insist it is a knowledgeable site than I don’t know what kind of knowledge we are acquiring over here. Knowledge make person open minded, analytical, having vision and wisdom. This is my opinion. based on your comments. Ya Ali Madad.

* United States

Authenticity of Copyright Lawsuit QUESTIONED
On July 19th, 2010 heritage says:

New Article Posted Here
Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

Courage (હિંમત)
On July 20th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Courage (હિંમત)

To confront the most powerful leader, one requires tremendous courage (બુલંદ હિંમત), and it is said that those who are courageous are certainly very strong in their faith (મજબુત ઈમાન). This is beautifully explained in Kalam-e-Maula.

હિંમત બડી ઈમાન નિશાની
ભાઈ બડી રાખો અપની હિંમત
જિસ કિસીકી હિંમત બડી
ઉસ ઉપર આવે રબકી રહેમત.
(kalam e Maula 23)

* Pakistan

courage and faith
On July 20th, 2010 dchandani (not verified) says:

I agree to the above post.
I love my Mawla too much.
I would hate to think any thing in his opposition but I have a gut feeling that Mawla is on the side of the defendants.
I think Nagib and Alnaz are true momins
they will be helped by him for sure
Keep your bandagi Ibadat going strong!

* United States

Your new posting of the 19th of July 2010
On July 19th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Yeah !!! Thanks a million for the new information (it is the first time that I read on your site that farman printing has been removed from the 1986 Constitution ! maybe it was there before and I just did not see it!), the clear and succinct summary of facts, particularly the message of the Imam conveyed by Sachedina to the family of Nagib in 1998. No words can adequately express my gratitude to you for making this summary available to those of us who may not have the time or the energy to go through long and technical legal documents... Mowla tamaaro bohuj bhalo karè ! Ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@heritage
On July 19th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Very well written article. Our Beloved Imam is inherently, "Merciful and Just". Thank you

* Canada

May be we are very close to "Zahurat"!
On July 19th, 2010 Sonbai (not verified) says:

Eji utar kha(n)dd maa(n)he shaah nee jot jaagevaa,
shaah naa purakh meele parketaa ho jirebhaai..................1

O momins: When the Lord's light shines in the North continent,
then complete recognition(and understanding) of the Lord is
attained O dear brother
(ginan by Peer Saderdin)

What could be a better platform than Unbiased neutral country like Canada?
Office of Imamat formerly established in Ottawa already!
Federal court is always a great institution for credibility!

Any major event in the history is preceded by "unprecedented event".
A true test of faith for the momins!
A momin's speculation!

* United States

UTTAR KHAND
On July 24th, 2010 ANY (not verified) says:

UTTAR KHAND in not Canada. Pir is referring to our forehead(temple) between two eyebrows where Imam's Jot (spark) will shine when we reach at a point where we are worthy of it during meditation.

* United States

Al Waez Nzarali once told me
On July 24th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Al Waez Nzarali once told me that during the opening ceremony of Burnaby JK, Hazar Imam asked him waht he was thinking and he said "uttar khand mahe shah ni jyot jageva" so Hazar Imam told him but do not forget, it is not only North America, it is also Europe.

So I guess you have "esoteric -batini" meaning but you also have the "exoteric- zaheri mening" To discuss this subject go to Forum on ismaili.net, this is not the appropriate thread to discuss this subject...

Uttar khand
On July 24th, 2010 Sonbai (not verified) says:

I agree with Umed.
Most ginanic verses have 2 meanings.
Zahiri and Batini.
One cannot completely discard the Zahiri meaning.
A momin must try to understand both.
Imam's Noor guides you to seek that balance.

* United States

Uttar Khand......
On July 24th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Thank you Umed and Sonbai for sharing the meanings of the above Ginan, Zahiri and Batini.

* Canada

Request to deny summary judgment to Plaintiff?
On July 15th, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

I just checked your link to the docket. There is a Letter from Defendant requesting that sittings for summary judgment of the plaintiff be denied. A further explanation will really be appreciated. What are the grounds and has that request been made because the Defendant now want to settle this matter out of court? That would be welcome news.

* Canada

Both Motions have been
On July 16th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Both Motions have been delayed. As per Judge Heneghen, dates would be set after the cross-examinations of August 2010.

Ismaili Constitution Signed by the Imam
On July 15th, 2010 AM (not verified) says:

A murid is bound by the Shia Imami Ismaili Constitution that MHI has himself signed and sealed. If there is any infringment by any of his follower, he or she is to be tried by the provisions stipulated within the Ismaili Constitution.

* Canada

The Imam has specifically
On July 17th, 2010 Murid (not verified) says:

The Imam has specifically directed that the consitution and the supporting institutions must be followed to the Letter and the spirit, and tis is very important. If they are both not followed top down by leaders or the Jamat, then;

1 either the constitution or the Institutions, are not needed or there is new such guidance from the imam or

2 All those who do not follow them both, must be made to either change to follow them both in accordance with the provisions & guidance stipulated by the Imam or those who still do not follow them then they need to be changed. I am sure a detailed institutional review will have been undertaken following the filing of this unprecedented lawsuit.

Were responses be filed yesterday and will they be uploaded. ?

* United Arab Emirates

Will Imam ever sue a Murid
On July 15th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Will Imam ever sue a Murid before the murid was approached by the Institutions or the Imam ?
Follower July 13, 2010 - 6:24 AM
bloglaw/alnaz, as usual you are going in circles! Poor alnaz did not get a fair treatment. Imam has filed a lawsuit against him and has kept that lawsuit still. He hasn’t withdrawn it. What kind of a murid are you to keep questioning the Imam’s action?
Reply bloglaw July 13, 2010 - 7:48 AM
Follower : Imam or infact anyone else would never file a lawsuit against anyone without first approaching him/her and giving them an opportunity to respond. In fact most reputable lawyers(including lawyers acting) will not file a lawsuit without first writing a letter before action and giving that party (Alnaz) an opportunity to respond. This will be one of the professional issues for the judge at the hearing. That is also why mandatory mediation is a legal requirement. That is one of the reasons why the defendants and Alnaz don’t believe it is the Imam or that he had all the correct information when he made his decision on 3rd April 2010 to file, according to Dr Sachedina. The lawsuit was filed 3 days later.

* United Kingdom

clarifications
On July 14th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Please let me know if my understanding of following three points is correct:
1. So far Mr. Grey has filed only two affidavits in the court — that of Mr. Sachedina and Mr.Bhaloo.
2. The affirmation/ affidavit of plaintiff Agakhan (for us, Hazar Imam) has not yet been filed by Mr.Grey.
3. Similarly, affidavits of the senior lawyer and the notary also have not yet been filed by Mr.Grey.
4. Mr. Grey has not yet requested the court to cross examine the three forensic experts of the plaintiff.

* Pakistan

Gray has filled 4 affidavit:
On July 14th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Gray has filled 4 affidavits: Bhaloo, Shachedina, the Notary and the Lawyer.
Only Bhaloo and Sachedina will be cross-examined by the defendants and Gray will cross-examine both Defendants in August.
The Notary and the Lawyers story has already been discredited by expert reports. Gray or the Defendants can not cross-examine anyone who has not filled an Affidavit.
The defendants have up to 16th to submit their reply to the new motion by Gray so lets wait and see if they are going to reply or submit any affidavit.

Affirmation and Affidavit
On July 17th, 2010 dchandani (not verified) says:

What is the difference between affimation and affidavit?
The affimation by Hazar imam notarised by a notary is not affidavit?
So if the notary presented this affimation by Hazar Imam as an exhibit how is it different from affidavits by the two leaders of the community?
What is the importance of exhibit verses filing affidavit in the court?
I just want to understand the various processes in the court.and to understand how much weight each one carries

* United States

An Affirmation is more for
On July 18th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

An Affirmation is more for public relation or propaganda purpose. An Affirmation does not have any legal weight. Especially if the signature on it is forged.

An affidavit has legal weight because it can be subject to examination. Affidavit are evidence and Exhibits gives weight to what is written in the affidavit. However hearsay in the Affidavit does not have any weight from the legal stand. Hope this brings some light to your question.

Gray has filled 4 affidavits
On July 15th, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

Will the lawyer and notary of the lawyer who have also filed affidavits not be examined by the defendants?

* Canada

stop wasting your time and
On July 14th, 2010 zanbia (not verified) says:

stop wasting your time and money defending yourself

you don't know who are playing with...

* Canada

Zanbia is right - Noone knows who the real Plaintiff is.
On July 15th, 2010 Perplexed (not verified) says:

Zanbia is right - Noone knows who the real Plaintiff is.
It certainly isn't the Imam as he would not condone such threatening comments.

@Perplexed
On July 15th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Very well said. Re:2nd sentence, our Beloved Imam is also "Very Caring, Very Merciful and Humble". Thank you.

* Canada

Re: Zanbia's above post
On July 14th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Who should stop wasting their time, brother/sister zanbia? The plaintiffs or the defendants ? Sorry if the question is naïve.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Will the expert opinions on the signatures be cross examined?
On July 14th, 2010 Vanilla (not verified) says:

How much weight do the expert opinions on signatures the have?

* Canada

Expert Opinions
On July 15th, 2010 Perplexed (not verified) says:

Weight given to the expert opinions depends on the judge, I guess.
But our Imam is Present and everliving. (Haizinda - Qayam Paya)
So of course the opinions won't matter if the Imam simply appears in person to clarify.

Kalam-e-Imam-e-Zaman availability
On July 13th, 2010 Ismaili (not verified) says:

Is the above still available to Ismailis.It states that first edition is sold out but second edition is for sale, yet link doesnt work .
Thanks

* Canada

Yam, Is GOLDEN EDITION -
On July 17th, 2010 zarin (not verified) says:

Yam,
Is GOLDEN EDITION - Kalam-e Imam-e Zaman still avaiable for sale?

I will be travelling to Russia next month and would like to give couple of these books to our fellow ismailis in moscow

Ya ali Madad

* Canada

My response in Vancouveritte
On July 12th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

My response in Vancouveritte which raises questions also of whether Institutions set up by MHI are in practice functioning as institutions and in accordance with Imams guidance and policies.
The question is If the Imam knew Alnaz Jiwa , a defendant & lawyer was not approached, THEN would this lawsuit have been authorized against him by the Imam or agreed against him by community leaders when they were consulted and briefed by the leader in question. The institutions being LIF, National Councils and ITREBs (as stated in the first announcement)
According to Vazir Shafik Sachedina in his affidavit,
1 In early January 2010, Nagib said he wishes guidance direct from the Imam and agrees to write to the Imam to seek directions and guidance. Vazir Sachedina says he informed Imam. He then goes on to say that community leaders agreed with Imams wishes and guidance to make an announcement in all JK’s. Dates or names/titles community leaders/institutions are not mentioned.
2 It follows community leaders were consulted by Vazir Sachedina and he informed them of the wishes and guidance of the Imam to inform the Jamat world wide that “Mr Tajdin’s Farman book was an unauthorized publication and should not be supported”. The LIF joint tri-institutional announcement was issued on 16 Jan 2010, before the letter from Nagib to the Imam was received on 20th Jan. 2010.
3 On 2nd or 3rd of April 2010 Imam gave a decision & instructions for the lawsuit to be filed, as a last resort. The lawsuit was filed within 3 days. Lawyers will have been instructed some time before that date. The affidavit does not say when Imam authorised lawyers to be instructed to give advice and prepare the legal claims & lawsuit.
4 The affidavit does not say that Alnaz Jiwa, a lawyer, was ever approached. Nor does it say that there was ongoing or specific institutional consultation or consensus with community leader.
5 On 3rd April 2010, Imam directed Vazir Sachedina to brief the LIF. Imam further authorized a second announcement from the LIF informing the Jamat of the sequence of events leading up to the filing of the lawsuit.
6 Vazir Sachedina says he briefed LIF on 9th to 11th April 2010 in London, after the lawsuit was filed. His affidavit does not say if he had further consultations or consensus from community leaders between 16 Jan 2010 and 9 April 2010.
I hope you will agree that the above is not as simple or straight forward, and raises many questions

* United Kingdom

Bloglaw' s above post
On July 12th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, brother Bloglaw, the facts are neither simple nor straight forward. Is this post the 2nd part of the time line?
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Observation
On July 9th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Some one in this discussion has concluded that this law suit is between Imam and the Murids. It was further concluded by him that either party can withdraw the suit.
These conclusions are incorrect.
I have come to know from various Ismailis who have worked at senior levels in AK network that Hazar Imam gives almost all necessary authority and powers to top executives, and he hardly interfere in their even vital decisions.—which resulted even losing legal cases by these institutions. I personally know two such cases within Pakistan.
The next thing is withdrawal of case from court. This can only be done by the plaintiff, the one who has filed the case. The defendant can not withdraw; he has to face the case whether the case material is right or wrong. The only thing a defendant can do is totally surrender to all the demands of the plaintiff, but even in that case, it is the plaintiff who can withdraw.
And here, why both defenders, Nagib and Al Naz, should surrender, particularly when they are right and their inner voice says them to face the case.

* Pakistan

Ismailis Follows Imam Only.
On July 9th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

On July 7th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:
“True ismailis are always on the side of the Imam and His Farmans ONLY. They do not blindly follow leaders, they know their Faith because they study Farmans. From the Time of Imam Ali and through every time that the Imam was betrayed by his own leadership, true ismailis stayed with the Imam and followed His word only. “
“As in one of my previous posts: ‘Ismailis have historically been Farman-Bardari in much more difficult positions: ex: we ismailis believed Hassan Bin Sabbah who was told by Imam Mustansirbillah that Mowlana Nizar is the next Imam, rather than to believe the proclamations in all the Mosques by the Vizir Afdal that Musteali was the next Imam, even if Afdal produced an amended Farman, and condemned and imprisoned Hassan Bin Sabbah’."

My comments: ‘ An excellent Reply, indeed.’

* Pakistan

"IS OUR FARMANBADARI QUESTIONED?"
On July 8th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat! Hazar Imam is the spiritual Father to all Ismaili Muslims. With this special and eternal bond with Mowlana Hazar Imam, His Spiritual son/daughter will always bear in his/her mind that any inadvertent criticism of Mowla will not only be construed as disrespect to Mowla but also not adhering to Mowla's wishes! In short, it lacks ‘FARMANBARI’.

We have used several words to describe Mowla. He is omnipresent, omniscience, and omnipotent, He is in the eyes of the world a philanthropist, a billionaire, and a chairman of huge conglomerate, and a Spiritual Leader who believes in total humanity and betterment of every human being! When we have gone this far in our beliefs, why are we not united? Why we do not have an absolute faith in our Mowlana? Have we become materialistic?

Whatever so far has transpired between the plaintiff and the defendants will never go away. It is a matter that has happened in modern time and in 21st century. When the civilization is on the threshold of cloning human beings.

Many books will be written on this lawsuit and the authors of these so called books will not be kind to the defendants!

Whatever that has transpired in the beginning of 2010 will now only be corrected by the court’s verdict. The court’s verdict will be pronounced sooner or later. But it will be given, until and unless this lawsuit is withdrawn by either side or both the sides.

While this lawsuit remains in our midst, our religious feelings will, of course, will take precedent to make us believe the negative side of this lawsuit!

But have we tried to ponder why this has happened? Was there a possibility in reality to have this lawsuit not happened? Or is it just a vendetta or show of strength?

Farman bardari
On July 8th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

Allahu Alim . Allah knows best .

* Canada

Interesting Reply to a
On July 7th, 2010 Murid (not verified) says:

Interesting Reply to a comment by the Editor of Vancouveritte:
bloglaw July 8, 2010

Editor Sir; Neither me nor defendants or other murids who seek clarification, ask questions share critique & feedback are therefore championing any anti Aga Khan campaigns ?

There is good reason to beleive that institutionally something major went drastically wrong between 4th Jan 2010 to the date when the lawsuit was filed. It seems the cross institutional process & workings of having detailed review, consultations & consensus, on such an unprecedented lawsuit & consequential ramifications were not followed by a leader/s & a few colleagues in question who proceeded with delegated authority (or not). A mistake and if so, it can still be corrected.

Maybe this was also a knee jerk angry reaction because their authority was questioned and what they were saying was not believed. This also could have resulted in incorrect or incomplete information being given to the Imam at the material time and also why they did not to approach Alnaz Jiwa directly.

The above seems clear from the claims and counter claims filed in court. We all understand delegation and delegated authority, which is necessary especially in large institutions.

Imam betwen the filing of the lawsuit and in the last week or so, has all the full and complete information and is in control from a legal & material point of view. I may be wrong in this and if so we will know by 9 August 2010 or sooner.

We also understand delays in court are usual and not very unusual so far in this case. All parties need time to consider and respond allowing for consultations and their other day to day commitments and priorities.

I hope and pray this lawsuit is settled soon. Ameen.

* United Arab Emirates

"MY FINAL THOUGHTS"
On July 7th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

I have read very many posts and I also participated to express my thoughts as I saw it fit. Today I am not comfortable to go back to all my previous posts in Ismaili.Net and the Vancouverite because I did on many instances become a moderator, despite knowing the fact, it is a civil matter, and should have left this matter in hands of those to whom it been handed.

I felt, this matter had some how gained my insight due to the fact, it had a religious connotation. I presented several scenarios on premises how the defendants will present their case and I failed at one instant because it was not politely accepted by some participants due to misinterpretation. However, I moved on the thorny path because I wanted also to understand the scenarios presented by the other participants.

The moral that has come out of this unfinished litigation is simplified to me as the Imam has chosen this path, so it becomes the matter between Imam and defendants (His Murids).

In conclusion, we have to move on because there is lot to learn from our experience. With YA-ALI-MADAT, Nizar Ali K. Shivji.

"IMAMAT DAY MUBARAK"
On July 7th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat: I take this opportunity to wish you, and your family a very festive and prosperous IMAMAT DAY. We pray that Mowla bless you, and your family, with much happiness, prosperity, and good health. May He always keep you on the path of Siratal Mustaqim, Ameen! With my very best wishes, Nizar Ali K. Shivji.

Court Docket
On July 7th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Court Docket

One thing is clear from the court docket that the defendants( both Nagib and Al Naz) have instantly agreed to their availability for cross examination between August 9 and August 26, 2010. However, it was Mr. Gray, the plaintiff’s lawyer, who demanded cross examination and hence he should have instantly accepted those dates for cross examination of Mr. Sachedina and Mr. Bhaloo for those dates, instead of waiting till 9th of July (a week was wasted). This is nothing but legal tactics for delay the case.
Mr. Gray, on instruction from Mr. Sachedina will use all available legal tactics other than making Hazar Imam available in the court for clarification. He would not dare that. Why? We all know that. But he has forgot that the defendants are full of their faith in their Maula and hence are not going to be humbled or yielded. Mr. Sachedina try your best and that is all you can do. You have all the resources available except, I am sure, Maula’s blessings.

* Pakistan

delays / availability for cross exam.
On July 13th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

Isn't your whole comment above based on speculation ? Are you relying on any facts or even hearsay ? Let the court decide in due course.Allahu Alim . Allah knows best.

* Canada

Court Docket
On July 8th, 2010 Nick (not verified) says:

VERY WELL SAID AND WHEN YOU WRITE;". Mr. Sachedina try your best and that is all you can do. You have all the resources available except, I am sure, Maula’s blessings"

* Canada

Court Docket
On July 7th, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

Well said, bravo !!!!

* Canada

DELAY, DELAY
On July 7th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

DELAY, DELAY

The recent heritage news:
“Because of the delays created by the Motion presented under the name of the Plaintiff , the resolution of this case will go to next year. Only cross-examination will happen in August this year. “

• This means one thing: ‘vengeance and egoism has dominated the wisdom’.
• Had Mr. Sachedina been right and had a clean heart, he would have requested Hazar Imam to talk to Nagib, and every thing would have been in place, but alas nothing sort of that happened. And now more court expenses on both the sides and intense psychological stress on defendants.

* Pakistan

I don't think there is any
On July 7th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

I don't think there is any stress on defendants. We have seen up to now that they know how to handle the situation. Maybe there is stress on some other people, who knows...

No cross-examination of the Plaintiff.
On July 6th, 2010 Dilawar H Momin (not verified) says:

As per Court Docket as of July 6th 2010.
"The Defendants advised that they will be available for cross-examination, in Toronto, in the period August 9 to August 26, 2010. The affiants for the Plaintiff, that is Mr. Sachedina and Mr. Bhaloo, will be cross-examined in the same time frame. In that regard, Mr. Gray will report in writing to the Court and to the Defendants by Friday July 9, 2010, as to the availability of Mr. Sachedina and Mr. Bhaloo for cross-examination between August 9 and August 26, 2010. There will be no cross-examination of the Plaintiff unless he files an affidavit in relation to either of the motions for summary judgment."

* United States

No cross-examination of the Plaintiff.
On July 6th, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

What a play from Sachedina, he knows that if the plaintiff as he says it's Mowla comes, then he looses his head because Mowla will say that he blessed the first book and he did not file this law suit. He is afraid.This is another proof that the plaintiff is Sachedina. The guy is using everything in his power to not let meet Mowla and the defendant. But I believe in miracle. We are waiting for one now Mowla.

A message to Dilawar, since when Mowla has an Ego ???

* Canada

@Rabya
On July 7th, 2010 Nick (not verified) says:

VERY WELL SAID! THANK YOU

* Canada

"EGO"
On July 7th, 2010 Dilawar H Momin (not verified) says:

Yasmin and Rabya,

Ya Ali Madad,

Our overwhelming thoughts of justifying the printing and circulation of the Farmans, with the selfish motive of having Farmans, we fail to analyze our own statements and fail to understand the meaning it conveys. We are just stuck with the words and lost the ability to go beyond the words.

You are able to see my word ‘ego’ but not able to understand the meaning of your own statements. All this hurts, hurts everybody including Hazar Imam.

Yasmin, I am quoting your words: “…… but we need a "change"…”

And I am quoting my words: “You said we need change. It is Imam who bring change not us. It is Imams prerogative to decide what we need.”

If by “change” you mean ‘administrative, management, policy and organizational change, then it’s Imams prerogative. If you mean “change’ in attitude, than why only leaders, we all have to change.

Yasmin, if you are familiar with our history, theology and Daawa system, then you might be aware of the hierarchy in the organization of Daawa and its importance to trust and follow the instructions of your immediate superior.

@ Dilawar
On July 7th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

Dilawar:

You have used much more words than Yasmin whose statement about ‘change’ does not say anything about the ‘change’ you meant.
Allah has gifted the human being with ‘free-will’, and it is we, including our leaders, who have to decide as how to use this gift. Allah normally does not interfere in one’s free-will actions. This is also true in this case.

* Pakistan

Asif
On July 8th, 2010 Nick (not verified) says:

Thanks Asif that was a good response, May Hazar Imam Bless you, A Happy Imamat Day Mubarak to you and your family and to all our Ismaili Brothers and sisters around the Globe.

* Canada

@Asif
On July 8th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Thank you Asif. I would like to wish you,Umed and everyone on this Site a very "Happy Imamat Day". May Allah shower His Blessings upon each and everyone of us, bring Peace, Happiness and Barakat. May our Beloved Hazar Imam bless all of us with His Zaheri and Batuni Deedar. Ameen. Thank You.

* Canada

@Dilawar
On July 7th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Thank You. Life is short, and I do not wish to dwell on your statements, as to who said this and and who is more knowledgable with our history, theology and Daawa system, but I am very happy with you. Let's just pray for all those involved in this Lawsuit. Thank you.

* Canada

Ismailis Follow Imam ONLY
On July 7th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

True ismailis are always on the side of the Imam and His Farmans ONLY. They do not blindly follow leaders, they know their Faith because they study Farmans. From the Time of Imam Ali and through every time that the Imam was betrayed by his own leadership, true ismailis stayed with the Imam and followed His word only.

As in one of my previous posts: "..ismailis have historically been Farman-Bardari in much more difficult positions: ex: we ismailis believed Hassan Bin Sabbah who was told by Imam Mustansirbillah that Mowlana Nizar is the next Imam, rather than to believe the proclamations in all the Mosques by the Vizir Afdal that Musteali was the next Imam, even if Afdal produced an amended Farman, and condemned and imprisoned Hassan Bin Sabbah."

Leadership
On July 3rd, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Leadership

One of my Ismaili lawyer friend who is also a leader in the existing set up expressed his views to me that confuting the three experts findings in the court would be very difficult for the plaintiff. This is his legal opinion. However, when it comes to social side, his views are just conventional and undemocratic: ‘Jamat should obey the leadership, without any reservation, who are the best judges as to what is good and what is bad for Jamat.’

* Pakistan

Wishes of the Imam when serving the jamat
On July 6th, 2010 Murid (not verified) says:

Kasamali - your friend needs reminding that Imam is the best judge of what is good and bad for the jamat. Leaders are there to serve the needs of the Jamat & making sure correct and complete information is communicated institutionally and to the Imam. In doing so Leaders need to selflessly follow Farmans, guidance & insitutional policies and processes set up by the Imam and by seeking feedback and information from the jamat. Imam of course wishes the jamat to fully support the leaders in serving the needs of the Jamat and the wishes and guidance of the Imam. Imam has said that every leader must ask himself/herself every day if they have today served the Jamat as Imam wishes them to do so, and if not they must then do so the next day and everyday in the future. Your friend should also ask the same question to himself as a leader..

* United Arab Emirates

@Murid
On July 7th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Very Well Said. Thank you.

* Canada

What does Imam wish the
On July 6th, 2010 Murid (not verified) says:

What does Imam wish the leaders and the defendants to do "... It gives me much pain to feel or to hear or to learn that spiritual childern have not been working together and there are difference amongst you........every spiritual child is equal to every other spiritual child and it does not matter whether you are the President of the council or whether you are a tiny child in school for me every spiritual child is equal and I do not want divisions in my Jamat. This is fundamental to the future of my Jamat...." Bombay 23 Feb 1969 - Precious Gems (canada).

* United Arab Emirates

@ kassamali
On July 6th, 2010 Nick (not verified) says:

You are kidding Right! when you say;" Jamat should obey the leadership, without any reservation, who "are the best judges" as to what is good and what is bad for Jamat"?

Affidavits
On July 3rd, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

I appreciate for your kind words on the above subject, to all those who read my comments. I am "very proud to be an Ismaili", and a murid of our Beloved Hazar Imam, but we need a "change", so that we do not have any divisions/differences in our Jamat in future, but we all should always be "united", and make our Beloved Hazar Imam "Always Happy". Thank you once again.

* Canada

Happiness of Hazar Imam
On July 6th, 2010 Dilawar H Momin (not verified) says:

Yasmin,

Leaders, Prince Amyn Mohammed and Mowlana Hazar Imam tried to resolve this issue but in vein.
A non-profitable project does not make it right or appropriate.
Yasmin, yes you are right. Defendants, leaders and Mowlana Hazar Imam should have swallowed their ‘pride and ego’
How any one can trust the defendants to involve them in the projects where sensitive matters like Farmans are involved?
You are ignorant about our history and theology. You don’t know how Daawa system works. Ours is not a democratic system and so it does not work from bottom to up but it works up to bottom.
You said we need change. It is Imam who bring change not us. It is Imams prerogative to decide what we need.
If we want Hazar Imam to be happy, we have to focus on what Hazar Imam wants not what we need or what ‘other’ people need.

* United States

@Dilawar
On July 6th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Thank you. Please note that I never mentioned that Defendants nor Mowlana Hazar Imam should swallow their "pride and ego". Please read my posting again. My statement was that the Leaders should have given an opportunity to the Defendants to work together with this project. Let me state that I am not ignorant about our history and theology, nor as to how Daawa system works, but this whole scenario has gone too far, and should have been resolved in the community and should not have gone to Courts. I have not mentioned anywhere that Hazar Imam should bring a change, it's the leaders, and I think they can do it. Thank you.

* Canada

Hazar Imam and Prince Amy's
On July 6th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Hazar Imam and Prince Amyn's name have been misused and abused by people hungry for power and domination. There are enough evidence in court now about the forgeries.

Forgery
On July 6th, 2010 dchandani (not verified) says:

As regards letter from 18th feb 2010, there are some handwritten sentences from Hazar Imam,
I can understand the signature but how can anyone forge written sentences?
Also statistically how often can handwritting experts be wrong? Are they always 100% right?

* United States

I hope you have heard of
On July 6th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

I hope you have heard of photocopy machines and "copy paste" expressions...

If all the experts are saying the same thing and they are credible experts, statistics are in favor of defendants.

Ego?
On July 6th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

Dilawar says "Defendants, leaders and Mowlana Hazar Imam should have swallowed their ‘pride and ego’"

If the case seems to transpire because of someone's ego, It certainly isn't that of the Imam, as He is the most Humble caring and a conscientious leader.

The defendants do not seem motivated by ego or money as they were undertaking these huge projects at a loss and on an anonymous basis. Still now they are, as you say, focused on what the Imam wants of them and not caring how much their name gets dragged in mud by others..

Who is left?

@Believer
On July 7th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Well said indeed. Thank you.

* Canada

EGO??
On July 6th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

are you questioning Hazar Imam , Imam-e-Zamans ego ? are you and Ismaili ?
Please dont offend us . thank you .

* Canada

Yasmin, thank you very much
On July 2nd, 2010 Awji (not verified) says:

Yasmin, thank you very much for your comment. I agree with each and every word of you. Very well said indeed.
Ya Ali madad from Moscow.

* Russian Federation

Answer to MUHAMMAD who sought answer in Vancouverite
On July 1st, 2010 nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

MUHAMMAD, YA-ALI-MADAD! Foremost please accept my sincere thanks for addressing me as Mr. Shivji, Nizar will suffice!

You have sought your answer in VANCOUVERITE. But unfortunately, this post is still floating. It is possible; it did not merit a place in VANCOUVERITE.

Therefore, I am taking this liberty to request the ISMAILI.NET where my post on MEHMANI was initiated to post my reply so that you can get your answer via Ismaili. Net.

Frankly speaking, I am not a historian nor do I have enough knowledge to enlarge my thoughts on “MEHMANI.” The occasion of Mehmani is a personal experience which physically allows Murid to present Memani to MHI.

When the Memani is presented to MHI, during those auspicious moments whatever transpires is between MHI and His Murid.

MHI during those particular auspicious moments knows what the Man-Murad of His Murid is. He can also see the Mehmani Tray with its contents. He knows the Memani Tray which is presented to Him includes other artifacts or valuable item. He will never says to His Murid to remove those items first and then He will bless His Murid’s Mehmani (fruits/nuts, etc).

Since the Affidavit of karim Alibhay (Federal Court File NO: T-514-10) is easily available in ‘Vancouverite’, please refer to it as Mr. Karim Alibhay has very vividly described the entire procedure of Mehmani. This will also justify my assumptions pragmatically! I agree with your thinking as you have submitted. With best regards, Nizar Ali K. Shivji.

WHY MY POSTS ARE NOT ACCEPTED?????
On July 1st, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Today being July 01, 2010, the case which is very highly discussed and commented will soon be over. I hope after its settlement, the case will be allowed to rest in eternal peace. If this post is accepted by you without any modification and if it is my last post in ISMAILI.NET then I take will this opportunity to thank you for giving me the partial opportunity to express my say. With Ya-Ali-Madat, Nizar Ali K. Shivji.

No it looks like it will not
On July 3rd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

No it looks like it will not be over soon as you think. it will drag well into next year. Availability of judges will be a problem and there will be delays as there is now a counter-motion. [Both sides are asking dismissal on different grounds and on different directions.

Affidavits
On July 1st, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

As I have personally thought on this case, and also after reading the affidavits of Karim, Nagib and Alnaz, this matter should have been resolved in the community, rather than taking it to Courts. This Project was a non-profitable one (a huge project), and Shafik Sachedina, should have resolved this matter in some other way by motivating the above Murids, who had put in so much effort, time, etc. He should have swallowed his "pride and ego", involved them into other projects, where there are Farmans, Talikas, etc. of which compiling and publishing to be done, rather than indirectly telling them that "you are not supposed to do any work for the Imam or the Jamats, except "me" who is authorised to do". This is not called "Leadership". It's like "Dictatorship". These are some of the main reasons why lot of Jamati Members are not comfortable with these leaders of our Jamat. These leaders are abusing their "powers" to put down any Murid who stands up and says anything that is not acceptable to them. Thank You

* Canada

Does the Imam have any control over leadership?
On July 5th, 2010 Dasani (not verified) says:

I am confused - Does the Imam have very little to no control over the leadership? Is it free to do whatever it pleases with the Jamat, without the Imam knowing, or being able to act on it?

* Canada

@Yasmin
On July 2nd, 2010 Nick (not verified) says:

I agree 100% with you when you say that "This is not called "Leadership". It's like "Dictatorship". These are some of the main reasons why lot of Jamati Members are not comfortable with these leaders of our Jamat. These leaders are abusing their "powers" to put down any Murid who stands up and says anything that is not acceptable to them."

* Canada

Yasmin I totally agree with
On July 2nd, 2010 Concerned Momin (not verified) says:

Yasmin I totally agree with you.
I feel that if we all did meditation in life which would connect
us internally with the soul. When we are connected with the soul it gives us lots of happiness,
harmonyand bliss. When you are in an object referral mode, which is ego based, Ego lives in fear
and has lot of insecurity. Ego is always asking approval from other and likes to control
and ego feels lots of insecurity.

So we should allow everyone to contribute towards the progress and beneficiary of the jamat.
A special talent of some one can be used to benefit everyone, after all we are one jamat.

* Canada

@Nick
On July 2nd, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Thanks for your comments. One more thing I forgot to add was, that these leaders they use Hazar Imam's name often, when any changes, etc. to be done. They know that we Jamat will not be able to reach Hazar Imam, and if we do so by correspondence, it will not reach Hazar Imam, coz. of the "censorship". We as Jamat have a no "say", we have to follow what they tell us to do. As I have previously mentioned in my posting that the "new generation" will not accept, what our generation is accepting. If any of these leaders are browsing this site, I have a suggestion for them, to ask the Jamati members, for their suggestions/input/discussions, he/she has, for any matter that would be beneficial to the Jamat and the Community. I do understand that these leaders have been appointed by Hazar Imam, but it's their duty to have a "good and honest communication" with the Jamat, so that we do feel that we are part of the community in many ways, especially as I have mentioned earlier, the "gap" between us and Hazar Imam. I am not talking "spiritually". We cannot go near him, nor talk to him, nor correspond if we need some personal guidance,etc. from him. The only people who are privileged, are these leaders, their families and friends. Hazar Imam is our Spiritual Father/Mother also, not only of these leaders, and He has time for us also, but I am sure they must be giving Him instructions also!!!!!!!! Thank you.

* Canada

Contents in Affidavits of:
On July 1st, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

Contents in Affidavits of:

Umed:

Do you know what are main points of affidavits of Mr.SS, Mr.Bhaloo, the senior lawyer, and the notary?
Is it any different than their affirmation that the signatures were of Agakhan (Hazar Imam) and that they were witnesses to this signature? Or something more too?

* Pakistan

Basically this is it,
On July 1st, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Basically this is it, Sachedina and Bhaloo are saying they warned Nagib not to print Farmans few years ago. But we see in the defense that Nagib has said that his allegiance is to the Imam, not to Sachedina.

Some Thoughts
On June 30th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Some Thoughts

If whatever Mr. Mohammad Manji was saying the other day to people in Jamatkhana is right, and if Miss. Sherbanoo claims that she was a witness to the signings of Hazar Imam , then isn’t it their duty to state such things in writing to the court in the form of their affidavits? Certainly, it will help the court to come to the correct decision. If they are reading this message, I would request them to be honest and come forward and file your affidavits, as plaintiff does not have much time left for filing additional supportive evidences. Each day is precious now.

Mr.Mohammad Manji and Miss Sherbanoo please beware. Once you file your affidavits, you both are subject to cross examination.

Next, I don’t understand how a gentleman like Mr. Bhaloo, who has a very good reputation in Jamat, permitted Mr.SS to use his name. The court does not spare any one: he too would be subjected to cross examination, if the case proceeds.

The problem arose in mid January, case was filed in April. So by now almost more than six moths have passed, and almost entire Jamat of the world has been guessing and gossiping since then. Even some are very worried. The jamat is generally divided into three groups. The first group consisted of vast majority, who, at present supports top leadership:, the second group, a much smaller group but consisted of youngsters, who based on logic, is sympathetic to defendants, while the last group consists of those who are confused and posing as neutral.

* Pakistan

whats going on ???
On June 29th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

only one comment posted on 29th june 2010.
I submitted at least 4 comments on various posts., asking for info or commenting on other posts here .
If censorship is the rule here , please kindly inform us . Thank you.

* Canada

This is a moderated board
On June 30th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

This is a moderated board like all other boards where you are posting.

Delay Tactics
On June 28th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Delay Tactics

Plaintiff is normally considered as the aggrieved party, and it is who always interested in fast process of the case, while, on the other hand, it is the defendant who employs the delay tactics. But here, surprisingly, the role is reversed. Why? Not difficult to understand.
The second thing in this case is that the plaintiff who used to beat the drums and raised a hue and cry about his so called important document ‘Affidavit’, never submitted it in the court. Is not surprising that it is the defendant who supplied that document in the court?
In this case, so far what is supplied by the plaintiff is the initial plaint when they filed the case, and that’s all.
Next, almost all the reasonable requests of the defendants including their five minutes meeting with Hazar Imam were turned down by the plaintiff. Then how could the plaintiff’s lawyer expect that his request for postponement of the dismissal application be accepted by the defendants, particularly at this critical stage?

* Pakistan

Can we do something about this?
On June 28th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

I have been somewhat disturbed and feeling uneasy since case was filed. I also feel that there are many Murids in this group who are equally or even more uneasy than I am. The reason is very simple for this uneasiness. If the case progresses at this speed, within a couple of months from now on, we have the court verdict. And what would be the court verdict? The verdict would be either or type – either the plaintiff wins or the defendants win. But in either case, we are the losers. The reason is simple:
1. If plaintiff wins, the two devoted Murids would not only be termed as liars, but would be ridiculed and become symbol of shame from majority of jamati members. After such verdict of the court, can anyone imagine, what would be the life like of the two Murids?

2. If defendants win, the implication, I fear, is even more serious. Imans of many a Murids will not remain strong enough—though they themselves will not admit this. While, still others will start raising many questions about our faith and infallibility of the Imam of the Time.

Then, what is the proper solution to this problem? It seems very simple --out of court settlement. But this requires divine intervention as suggested somewhere in this discussion by Nizar Ali K. Shivji. The next question is, can we do something about this?
Fortunately the answer is yes: By prayers. Bible says, prayers can move mountains. Similarly, there is a Farman of Maula Ali ( in his 48 the Jama) that with prayers one can surmount obstacles of mountains size. The court will take at least a month from now to give its verdict. So if there are 200 Murids or so in this group who are uneasy about this and start praying for at least one minute each day after regular morning/ evening Duas, then in a month time:
200x 1x30 = 6000 men-minutes of prayers, which is exactly 100 men-hours of prayers.
With serious prayers of this magnitude, we can Inshah Allah, make some positive contribution to this issue.

* Pakistan

Asif, your fears.
On June 29th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Asif:

Certainly, and without any doubt, prayers can work miracles. It’s high time that we all prayed for divine intervention.

Next, I differ from you in respect of the implication of court’s verdict. If the court gives verdict in favor of plaintiff, it means court is satisfied that the plaintiff is real Agakhan and not any other person. With this verdict, its win-win situation of both the sides, because it has always been the position of the defendants, even before the filing of the case, that once their doubt about real plaintiff is removed, they will be ready to accept any and every directions and instructions from Agakhan (Hazar Imam).

In case, verdict goes against the plaintiff, court will have satisfied that the plaintiff was not the Agakhan. Our community (Ismailis) is well educated and would understand the truth that it was Mr.SS who was posing as the plaintiff and Hazar Imam had nothing to with the case.

* Pakistan

Asif your dichotomoy shows
On June 29th, 2010 Please (not verified) says:

Asif,
Your rhetoric shows your double standard. On one hand you say if the plaintiff loses the case, the Imans of great many murids will be at stake and then you turn around and quote Imam Sultan Muhammad shah's Farman. Looks like you’re questioning the infallibility of MHI in the garb of purportedly the sentiments of other murids.
Don't we as Ismaili Nizaris believe that the Imams Noor lights the path of his murid and as such regardless of the outcome Imam of the time is vindicated. You are apparently attempting to sow the seeds of suspicions in the heart of the murids and only the most credulous or the ones already walking a tight rope of faith may get swayed by your rhetoric. The Imam is Maasoom and divinely inspired.

* United States

@ Asif Momin
On June 29th, 2010 Nick (not verified) says:

Very well said, We hope and pray that this case comes out of the court without any bitterness and the END be Peaceful. Ameen.

* Canada

Affadavits by lawyer , notary , sachedina and bhaloo
On June 28th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

in a news report on Vancouverite Mr Gleason , a lawyer present at the signing, and the notary have deposed affidavits to confirm the authencity of Plantiffs affirmation in Boston. Mr Sachedina and Mr Bhaloo are also reported to have filed affidavits . CAN YOU PLEASE CONFIRM this and if possible provide or postf such documents for us to see ? thank in advance

* Canada

There is nothing new in
On June 28th, 2010 Nagib Tajdin (not verified) says:

There is nothing new in these 4 Affidavits. Sachedina's affidavit is self serving. he knows he has lost all credibility in this matter so he has used Bhaloo's reputation.

The Gleason and Boston Notary story is now known since a couple of month. The Gleason Affidavit was signed a month ago. Their story has been verified and there is no credibility at all and that is why the document has been sent to Forensic and has now proven to be a fake. A lot of smoke will be thrown as expected, they have too much to lose, it does not change any of the facts in this lawsuit.

Sherbanoo has been mentioned in their Motion. She has just upgraded recently her story form "I don't think someone can forge the signature of the Imam" to a new version saying "I was there to witness the Imam's when he signed", but her affidavit is not in the Motion. Wonder why she does not want to put it in writting.

Mohammad Manji who has been saying in loud voice in Bayview Jamatkhana [we have several witness] that Hazar Imam has allowed Sachedina to sign for him with the Imam's name has also not presented any affidavit. We just hope he does and we hope Sherbanoo also does.

As to Vancouverite, it is full of propaganda and inaccurate information. i wouldn't waste my time there..

Defendants will prove in Court their stand and there will be nowhere to hide for the culprits who have shamelessly put the Imam's name into the courts by forging his signature. Let this lawsuit be an occasion for the Imam to catch in a legal framework all of the cheaters...

I will not be commenting more on this issue as it is in Court.

The Defense stands strong.

There is nothing new in
On July 2nd, 2010 noor (not verified) says:

"Hazar Imam has allowed Sachedina to sign for him with the Imam's name has also not presented any affidavit".IF this statement by Mr. Manji is true, would it stand as signed by Mowlana Hazar Imam. Logically or legally can one sign the affidavit on behalf someone?

* Canada

So someone's time is up
On June 28th, 2010 Abdelmajid (not verified) says:

So someone's time is up then? Less than 2 weeks to find out who/what the judge believes.

* United Kingdom

Options Before the Plaintiff
On June 26th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Options Before the Plaintiff

Since all the replies as well as application for dismissal of the case are so well prepared with supporting evidences, it will be very difficult for the pseudonym plaintiff to delay the verdict of the court for more than a couple of months, even with delay tactics employed by his lawyer.
The plaintiff may have more than a couple of options, but the best one is out of court settlement. If any good intentions are shown by Mr. SS, I am sure, being very good Murids and selfless devotee of Hazar Imam, the defendants would forgive Mr.SS. From their replies in the court it is clear that they are not egoist or egotist. Well it entirely depends on Mr.SS.
The other good option is: The lawyer of the plaintiff, in the court, does not object to the application of dismissal of the case made by the defendants, but this again depends upon Mr.SS.
However, if Mr.SS becomes belligerent, then the case verdict might get delayed.
But in any case, the pseudonym plaintiff has lost the case.

* Pakistan

Notary/Affidavit
On June 26th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Notary/Affidavit

Isn’t it amazing that, for the case, pseudonym plaintiff meticulously engaged a very prominent and front line lawyer – a very expensive lawyer indeed; but on the other hand, for his affidavit, chose a totally unknown and almost untraceable Notary from Boston. Even a reputable notary’s charges are not more than one percent fees of the prominent lawyer hired by the plaintiff.
So the question is why proper notary was not chosen. The answer is simple: The proper notary wouldn’t have signed and stamped the fake affidavit.

* Pakistan

I'm not sure if it is that
On June 27th, 2010 Becel (not verified) says:

I'm not sure if it is that "amazing." What's interesting is that you claim that the notary is unknown, and then you go on and suggest tha it wasn't a proper notary? How does that work?
Also, Hazar Imam did visit Boston on the May 12, 2010 - the same day and place the notarized document was signed. Maybe he went there for other reasons and found it convenient attain notary from there.

* Canada

Would have been more
On June 27th, 2010 Ghulam (not verified) says:

Would have been more "convenient" to ask the senior lawyer who was there to sign it instead of the Notary?
But do not worry, there is a lot of time to cook up some stories on why the Notary signed and not the Senior Lawyer, maybe the Senior Lawyer did not have his pencil with him... or forgot his seal...

Re: Ghulam's above comment
On July 3rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for your sense of humour...:-)
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Good point
On June 28th, 2010 abdelmajid (not verified) says:

Good point

* United Kingdom

Notary/Affidavit
On June 27th, 2010 Jenny (not verified) says:

Perhaps this is the reason why the Affirmation has not yet been filed in the court?

* Canada

2nd letter of 18th feb 2010.
On June 25th, 2010 Dilawar Momin (not verified) says:

What about 2nd letter from Hazar Imam send on or around 18th Feb, 2010? Is it forged too?

* United States

Yes it is. We have seen it,
On June 26th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Yes it is. We have seen it, there is no doubt that it is forged.

Yes it is .We have seen it
On July 6th, 2010 dchandani (not verified) says:

What about the handwritten additions to the letter?(Feb 18th letter)
How is it possible to forge sentences?

* United States

The affirmation, lawsuit and
On June 25th, 2010 Murid (not verified) says:

The affirmation, lawsuit and replies came after the letters. What is now most important is a settlement of this lawsuit by agreement before 12 July 2010. If not then sadly the court will decide on 12 July 2010, and the case will proceed to appeals. Meanwhile the wider media and audience are waiting & watching with interest so far. Murids including many leaders must be extremely concerned and confused.

* United Arab Emirates

Materials on Motion to Dismiss are avalable online
On June 25th, 2010 heritage says:

Materials on Motion to Dismiss are available online

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

Thank you for the materials
On June 25th, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

Admin, great job,

Thank you very much, now we are able to see the stubbornness of the leaders and why the defendants are so sceptical and have the courage to go on. Now we are aware that they tried and are still trying to look for a solution but nothing in the other side. Our prayers are with you. We'll probably have another damaka in the jamatkhana then with all this materials. It's M Sachedina's best weapon against Mr Tajdin!!!

* Canada

@Rabya
On June 25th, 2010 Nick (not verified) says:

I agree with you 100% it is the Leaders like Sachedina and others who makes Murids life tough, even if we and our Afghani brothers says Aslam Ale Kum greetings among us we are treated as we are non Ismailis by this Leaders specially from the Tariqah Board and what hurts the most is the more you do the Chamchagiri you are in committee once you say anything against YOU ARE OUT..NO WHERE....JUST A SIMPLE JAMATI MEMBER ....COME AND GO...THAT'S ALL THE VALUE YOU HAVE....I HOPE MOWLA BAPA DOES SOMETHING ABOUT THIS

* Canada

THANK YOU forCopies of Materials
On June 25th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

Thank you for posting the affidavits ,letters and various materials filed with Motion for Dismissal.
However i could not find/see a copy of the allegedly "FAKE" notarized Affirmation of Plaintiff from Boston.
Can you please post that too so we can have all the information available. Thank You again.

* Canada

It is part of the Exhibits
On June 25th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

It is part of the Exhibits submitted by Tajdin to the Court.

Maybe with the expertise showing that the signature is fake.

It is not allegedly fake, it is fake according to expert analysis. One is a long series of forgeries probably. If you think this is the only forgery, you are mistaken. What will be disclosed in this copyright lawsuit will be the tip of the iceberg. Forgeries are addictive [there are lots of article on the web about this] Once someone forge a signature, there is no limit to the harm he can do. However lets wait for the Court to issue their judgment before making ours.

There is a difference between allegations and evidences. There is evidences here.

http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/node/30104

Affidavit?
On June 23rd, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

What an ‘affirmation/affidavit’! How could the top most leader of the community, the pseudonym plaintiff, entertained and acted on a totally foolish idea pf preparing the fake affidavit at Boston, USA, If we were to believe this affidavit/affirmation, Hazar Imam, just to teach a lesson to bad Murids like Nagib and Al Naz, flew all the way from Paris to Boston, presented Himself before a Notarized officer, presented His passport and identified Himself as Agakhan. What an absurd story!
The pseudonym plaintiff and hi accomplices, if any, are committing one blunder after another to teach a tough lesson to the defendants. But the end is near. This shows that falsehood has no legs. After all The Truth will prevail.
The Notarized officer is equally guilty and can lend himself into jail.
Isn’t it a high time for the leader to accept his guilt and amend?

* Pakistan

Affidavit
On June 24th, 2010 Shamim (not verified) says:

Is there any way, the Defendants can find out where MHI was on the day this affirmation was signed. Find MHI's schedule and Voila the answer is staring at you.

* Canada

He may have been to Boston
On June 24th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

He may have been to Boston but we know for sure from Forensic that he did not sign this Affirmation

Why did he go to Boston on May 12 2010
On June 25th, 2010 Dasani (not verified) says:

Interesting observation Admin. I wonder why he went to Boston on May the 12th 2010, the same day that he "allegedly" signed sworn statement notarized in front of a notary public?
Thanks.

* Canada

He was probably there for
On June 25th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

He was probably there for medical treatment. There was no need to go to a Notary since the lawyer is saying there was a senior lawyer there then why ask a notary to make the document? The story does not hold water... And the defendants are saying they were not given the information about the notary though they asked twice so whatever info comes now is after fact and probably half cooked after the information was asked and refused.. And lets see if the plaintiff's lawyer dare enter in the Court any real affidavit from Plaintiff since the Affirmation is said to be fake.

Can anyone clarify
On June 23rd, 2010 murid (not verified) says:

Sir

In vancouverite the editor has said "Gray has previously stated he met with the Aga Khan during a recent visit and was told by the spiritual leader that he had made the decision personally to proceed with a lawsuit" This does not make sense.

Does this mean that before that meeting Gray, the lawyer appointed by the plaintiffs, had not met or verified that his instructions came from the Aga Khan ?

Why would the Aga Khan say to his lawyer after the lawsuit is filed that he personally made a decision to proceed unless Gray was not sure, or had not met the Aga Khan, and instrutions and filings were not verified by Gray directly with his client the Aga Khan?

Can anyone clarify this ? Maybe the Editor of Vancoveritte or your media can ask Mr Gray to clarify ?

It seems the evidence you have filed in court will impacton many including Mr Gray who has also said they will file a strong response and are waiting for instructions from the Aga Khan (in Vancouveritte)

* United Arab Emirates

All leaders should ask and try to facilitate a settlement
On June 23rd, 2010 murid (not verified) says:

Thank you for the excellent work and dedication by your team in sharing valuable information and knowledge with the Jamat

How can anyone beleive that the Imam does not wish all his firmans to be made available or distributed to all his murids.That would be like saying Imam does not wish murids to read, study, understand and follow his guidance.

The latest evidence and proof submitted into court is extremely shocking & serious. I hope & pray that leaders and those in positions of influence will tirelessly and selflessly make every effort to facilitate a settlement of the lawsuit. May they be blessed with courage & love to meet, resolve internally and work together. Ameen

* United Arab Emirates

All leaders should ask and try to facilitate a settlement
On June 24th, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

You are right, this is amazing, the jamat worldwide asks for a settlement, the defendants are ready to discuss, but shame, our leaders or should I say the Leader Mr Sachedina who says that he is the institution himself, does not want to hear about it. Don't you think it's ''magruri''. Instead of being humble because he is the right arm of Mowla, he is just showing his power. Sultan Mohammed Shah used to say in his farmans, people who are working with me and close to me are far from me and you who are far from me are very close to me. THis is very true. specially now.

To give away money like that instead of using it somewhere else, I hope that it does not come from the Jamati fund, please guys don't be shocked, it was just a thought

* Canada

PLEASE PROVIDE the Affirmation by Plantiff
On June 23rd, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

EDITORS ,REPORTERS,ADMINS... a humble Request

Why is a copy of the Affirmation signed by Plantiff in Boston , which your story claims is widely circulated on net and was indeed available to defendents NOT POSTED here on this site ? You have a "picture /graphic" of it with a big red FAKE stamp on it in your story yet you have chosen not to post the document for readers for information and to know all facts
. In respect of a fair , open , honest reporting of facts , ALL FACT , this is required on your part . Please provide readers with all available , factual information and let them decide .Otherwise this site's reporting and comments may be considered one-sided and therefore likely just propaganda without any integrity whatsoever , and dismissed as such.
Thank you in advance ..

* Canada

materials
On June 23rd, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

Admin,

You are late, Vancouverite has already put some materials on their site and they are ready to shoot everybody including the person who wrote the affidavit. Are we all brothers and sisters. Poor Mowla, he need to repeat to us years after years that we are all brothers and sisters, but we don't give a damn of what he says because farmans are not accessible to us. Vancouverite should be objective, a journalist should be objective. This is incredible. Mr Tajdin, Jiwa and parties are not murderers, they just want to give us Imam's message because the leaders and Tariqa are not doing their jobs. So Admin hurry up, we need the documents. Thank you

* Canada

What we put here does not
On June 23rd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

What we put here does not depend on what propaganda is on other sites. I think most of our readers are educated people who understand the issues at stake and are willing to be patient to get the real information. Obviously the usurpers and forgers have their own chosen people beating their drum on a preprogrammed music, nothing special. They are in panic mode so obviously they have to do something or write something or invent something because they know soon they will be proved wrong in court.

We are only putting news here after proper verification. We will make available all of the Affidavits, Motions, Expertises etc.. by this week-end.

Why would you want this web
On June 23rd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Why would you want this web site to make a publicity for a fake document which we know Hazar Imam has not signed? Why would we mis-inform our visitors. There is no credibility to this document which you are refering to, we have checked the story and though effort will be made after fact to convince the jamat otherwise, the story holds no water. Let the law decide what is right since you believe the Imam went to court over this matter unless you do not believe the law of the land or the farmans of the Imam about respecting the law of the land...

Do not forget the DEFENDANTS have file this document in court, not the plaintiff. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to understand why.

"Fake" document
On June 23rd, 2010 dilawar Momin (not verified) says:

Umed,

Are you working for defendants?

* United States

you should appreciate
On June 23rd, 2010 Umed (not verified) says:

You should appreciate that if the information was not available here you would have ended up with only one side of the story!

Re: Umed's above comment
On June 23rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Touché, Umed !!! :-) C'est bien dit !
Thank you for the effort to try and make the other side of the story available !!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

The Truth Shall Prevail
On June 22nd, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

The Truth Shall Prevail

I don’t think pseudonym plaintiff and his lawyer(counselor) will easily give up. A top lawyer always has many arsenals at his disposable. All what they can do is linger on the case on one or the other pretext. Hence do not expect that outcome will be soon. Irrespective of this Canadian courts are tough and ‘The Truth will Prevail.’

* Pakistan

According to the 4
On June 23rd, 2010 MBA (not verified) says:

According to the 4 expertises by 3 independents forensic experts, they have forged the documents. These expertises have been submitted to the Court. So say this web site. i don't know if this is true but if that many expertises have been filed, it surely means this is serious.

At this point Ogilvy can not withdraw the case, it will look too bad. If they have presented to court forged documents as say the experts, they need to put something in Court something looking credible to the jamat to counter the expertise in Court before withdrawing, so their position looks genuine. I can bet they will be thinking about this. Lets see how far they will go to manipulate the jamat opinion.

Shocked
On June 22nd, 2010 Sabzali (not verified) says:

I can not believe it. How can someone dare to forge Imam's signature?

* Tajikistan

Dismissal of Case
On June 22nd, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

I wonder whether any charges will be laid against those involved in forgery? If all these issues have been brought to the attention of Hazar Imam, I am sure He must be very sad. Thank You.

* Canada

Dismissal of the Case
On June 22nd, 2010 Concerned Momin (not verified) says:

I am so happy that finally a date has been decided when we will know the truth.
Atl east to put an end to this issue.

I am perplexed why this has not been settled on June 25 as per the court date.

Why prolong, I do have a question on that?

It is very nice to ask for dismissal of the case after the forgery has been proven.

* Canada

Dismissal of the Case
On June 22nd, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

it's not time for rejoicing here, we don't know what is going to happen, What will be the reaction of the other side, those people are used to lie, they will continue to do it. Does that mean that in the name of the Imam, the leaders made us doing things that the Imam was not aware of. How can we trust them. I am very confused, how can the defendants prove that everything is fake. It's unbelievable. What a shock!!!

* Canada

Dismissal of the Claim
On June 23rd, 2010 Jenny (not verified) says:

You are rigth, it's not the time for rejoicing but it is the time for praying. Praying for the Muskhil Aasan for all.
There are many possibilities of what can happen now :
1.the defendants may be threatened to be excommunicated and for that they would have to present the case to Hazar Imam, will they??,
2. there may be another announcement -- or on the flip side, the case may be withdrawn (and we know tthat that won't happen..;-(
You ask how can the defendants prove well, they have filed the expert reports the court which proves that the signature on the affirmation is not authentic.
What I don't understand is why the Affirmation was not filed in the court, did the lawyer know then that it was not authentic??
and you are right, What a Shock!..

* Canada

Don't expect them to accept
On June 22nd, 2010 MBA (not verified) says:

Don't expect them to accept easily that they forged signatures, they will fight back strongly and I am sure many delays and many more lies and announcement in jamath khana before the case is closed. If the defendant think this will be resolved in few weeks they are wrong, it will take years.

Re: MBA's comment
On June 22nd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
You really think that it is going to take years to resolve, MBA??? Ohhhhhhhhh noooooooo! I am tired of the waiting!!
Ya Mowla, madad karo!!!!

* Canada

What will happen to the
On June 22nd, 2010 Completely lost (not verified) says:

What will happen to the accomplices of the person doing false signatures of Mowla? Will they be also taken to task?
If the lawsuit is dismissed, would the forgery be forgotten?

It would have been better to let the case been heard in Court instead of asking dismissal because at least people forging the signature of the Imam would have been questioned?

New Motions
On June 22nd, 2010 someone (not verified) says:

Admin,
Is it possible to get the new motions and affidavits that were filed yesterday?

* United States

We are working on it. By
On June 22nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

We are working on it. By this week end we are expecting to get copies of all the material so everyone can see for himself. This is big and it is expected that people who have been on the wrong side of the border will be trying to divert attention. But the matter is in Court and the Judge will decide. I guess we can expect to unveil some more forgeries on the way.

Motion for dismissal of case
On June 21st, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Hello, Heritage staff ! Thanks a million for posting these last developments!! No words can express my gratitude to you!

Mubaraki to the defendants!!! I am thrilled! I have been repeating (at the cost of being boring to many, no doubt!!) that Hazer Imam would NEVER sue a mureed!! So there we are, the last document's signature too is being proven to be forged and thus confirms that all those who claimed "mordicus" that it was not the Imam that is suing were totally right.
Shukhranillah! This is wonderful news!

Insh'Allah, the whole matter can soon be closed!

All the very best to the defendants in their struggle to unveil the truth!!! I pray that peace may prevail in their hearts now and always, the peace that results from entrusting oneself entirely into the care of the Imam of the Time.
May everything be settled according to the wish of Mowla Bapa! Ameen.

And "Ya Aly madad !" to the defendants, the Heritage staff, and all those who will read this page!!

* Canada

zak@gmail.com
On June 22nd, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

Unbelievable .

* Canada

Unbelievable
On June 22nd, 2010 Jenny (not verified) says:

Why was the Affirmation not filed in the Court? Was it not good enough in the eyes of the lawyers?

* Canada

There is NO FORGERIES as
On June 22nd, 2010 zahir (not verified) says:

There is NO FORGERIES as stated by Ismaili .net. They are just making it up

* Canada

Ismaili.net is just
On June 22nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Ismaili.net is just informing you of what is in the Court. It may or may not please you.

You can be in denial as much as you want but the Judge will read the expertise. All of them. And maybe also order some of their own expertise. Who knows? And there are many expertise already in Court now. Chances are there will be many more discoveries of criminal acts [forgery is a criminal act] soon. let the law take over. Canadian legal system is serious, all the people involved will be accountable. They are expected to fight but truth will prevail.

Librarian, Your report
On June 22nd, 2010 TruthSeeker (not verified) says:

Librarian, Your report states quote - The defendants have now lodged, at the Federal Court, evidence proving that the notarized document is a fake. They write in their Affidavit and Motion: "All four expert-reports by three different experts have confirmed that the signatures purporting to be that of the Aga Khan were forged signatures. - unquote.
Did Heritage reporter contact the notary named on the affidavit to get their reaction on the expert's opinion that it was fake?
If not, perhaps you can do us a favor and look into it now. I think notaries are licensed, so it should not be a problem for your reporter to establish contact.
Perhaps, if you could also get the defendants response if they made any effort to reach the notary in question to establish authenticity. Thank You and YAM.

* Canada

We have not contacted the
On June 22nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

We have not contacted the Notary, we could not find his/her information on the web. maybe it is a suitcase Notary maybe not, who knows? The defendant said they also could not get the address and contact info for the Notary from the plaintiff's lawyer. Why all this secrecy? Is there a Notary or are we going now to find one or invent one retroactively?

Notary/Boston
On June 23rd, 2010 Jenny (not verified) says:

What do you mean you cannot find his/her information? Do the defendants not have that information from the materials filed in court?, or specifically from Brian Gray?

* Canada

Ismaili.net is just
On June 22nd, 2010 Follower (not verified) says:

Ismaili.net is just informing you of what is in the Court. It may or may not please you.

Is that why you don't post everything that has been filed in court???? Why only the one side - yours?? Are you afraid that your readers might read the truth??

* Canada

Just be patient, we will
On June 22nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Just be patient, we will post everything soon. Do not forget this is a network of powerful people committing deception and forgeries, they have unlimited access to money [which is not theirs]. To get information is not easy. What is in court is available but other documents are created for convincing the Jamat and the only purpose of those ones are PR from people who have access to the Jamati microphone. All this is expected.

correction
On June 18th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

In the first line of last para of my earlier message 'Mehmani and the civil suit', instead of 1952 read 1992.

* Pakistan

Mehmani and the Civil Suit
On June 18th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

Dear Dilawar: Ya Ali Madad

I think you are mixing two things—Mehmani and the civil suit.
Mehamani is a personal and spiritual matter. It is personal in the sense that it is between a specific Murid and his Hazar Imam. In the Mehamani, it is not necessary to have some kind of physical verbal communication between him and Him. It entirely depends upon the Murid, his intentions (NIYYAT), his intensity of love towards Him and his dedication to Him as well as his hopes (MURAD), and his desires at the time of Mehmani. For many a Murids, just ‘Khanavadan’ from his Maula is sufficient.

Again being Divine, He is able to pass the necessary message to His specific Murid without having any verbal communication. Believe me, I have come across some such Murids who are firm in their conviction that Hazar Imam has passed them some specific messages to them, although no verbal communication took place at that time. In spiritual matters and matters of faith, physical things have least values or rarely counts.
So, at least, in such matters you and I can not and should not challenge somebody’s conviction in his personal Mehamani. Maula knows best.

To be fair with Tajdin and Jiwa, they have been printing Farmans since 1952, only in 2010 when they tried to get approval of a specific book (The Golden Book), they met this fate. Again, the case is under copy rights act and hence is purely a civil matter. Let the case takes its own course.

* Pakistan

"MEHMANI"
On June 18th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YA-ALI-MADAT

Whenever I am in presence of Holy Huzur Poor Noor of Hazarat Dhani Salamat Datar Noor Mowlana Shah Karim Al-Husseini Hazar Imam during the special celebration of Mehmani acceptance or any other Mulakat (occasion), my good kismet is that Hazar Imam is gracious and merciful to accept my Mehmani or grant to me His Holy Noorani Deedar.

My prayer of Shukrana is always emotionally attached with my man-murad.

From my experience, I have seen that Mowla is always very happy to accept the Mehmani during those auspicious moments; He will bless the Mehmani which is presented to Him and His Murid.

Auspiciously, by Grace of Hazar Imam, I had two cards that would entitle me the audience with Hazar Imam. This opportunity was seized by my son, my daughter, and me.

My ex-wife, late Amina became selfless and decided that her pass for the audience with Hazar Imam should go to my son.

I had lots of questions on my mind in Holy Huzur Poor Noor of Mowla, but I sufficed myself by uttering ‘Ya Ali’, please accept my man-murad and whatever Hazar Imam said to me and my children, we accepted with love and devotion – “AMEN, KHUDAVIND.”

I did not rehearse all this but it happened naturally and we took Mowla’s leave and continued with Salwat until such time Hazar Imam departed from the Mehmani Hall.

By dwelling on this special auspicious moments, I like to say whatever transpires between Mowla and His Murid during those auspicious moments of Mehmani is between Mowla and His Spiritual Child.

Mowla during those particular auspicious moments knows what the Man-Murad of His Murid is, and He can also see the Mehmani Tray with its contents.

He knows a Tray of Mehmani which is presented to Him includes other artifacts or valuable item. He never says to His Murid to remove those items and then I will accept your Mehmani (fruits/nuts, etc.).

When somebody refers to a Farman book presented to Mowla with the Mehmani tray. The intension of that Murid does signify that Mowla’s own Farman book is theoretically on the tray for a purpose of Mowla’s attention, and I assume that intention could be to print the book and distribute to other Hazar Imam’s Murids.

With best regards, Nizar Ali K. Shivji.

* Canada

"Nobody is perfect except Allah"
On June 18th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YA-ALI-MADAT, alias CHAI! I will be very honest to you. I only read the headlines!

As I have already said, most of the time the contents of those headlines are only expressing the journalistic ability of those writers/reporters with very limited substance.

Besides, I am a lay and geriatric person of 66 years. But whatever I pen, I write with sincerity and honesty because lots of words does not make any sense, and gradually one gets astray from the thoughts he/she is trying to express.

Today being Friday, I am praying to Almighty Allah for His Grace and Mercy, and I am also praying for an accelerated resolution in this confronting matter.

Hazar Imam has very graciously said in His Farman: “NOBODY IS PERFECT, EXCEPT ALLAH.”

With regards, Nizar Ali K. Shivji.

* Canada

Nizar Ali K. Shivji's "Nobody is perfect except Allah"
On June 18th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
With all due respect, brother Nizar, may I add that the above phrase was said to the jamat by Hazer Imam about the leaders; the whole sentence from which this phrase is taken conveys the fact that we should not expect perfection from them (how would we feel if perfection was expected of us ?), but can expect competence and accountability. In my city, when this farman is read, the latter part of the sentence (competence and accountability) is eliminated. If you do have KIM, you might want to look up "perfect(ion)" in the index, find the farman in question, and confirm this for yourself.

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

"Allah is all knowing"
On June 19th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

MOWLA-ALI-MADAT (Alias Abdulla 786)!

Like I have said in my earlier post, I would like to refrain from participation in debates which in simple words takes us to esoteric and exoteric asect of one’s life, in other words - material and spiritual. I duly understand the concept of litigation, Mehmani, and all pertinent factors of our Tariqua. I do not wish to become an authority on any matters and then be branded as MR. KNOW IT ALL! I am, as a matter of fact, very contented with my limited knowledge on Ismailism and our Tariqua.

If my memory serves me right, the Farman in question is made in India by Mowlana Hazar Imam and since its inception, it is recitated in all global Jamatkhana. The Farman is reminding us tolerance, and refrain from loose comments. Sometimes we have the tendency to get carried away, and the end result is, it hurts everybody.

Today in any institute, it has become a basic criteria to have transparency, accountability, effectiveness, efficiency, and the list goes on and on …….. It is recommended that if one is interested to read on this particular subject, there is an article available on European Group of Public on Ethics and accountability of Governance and new Public … by Annie Hondeglem.

Today, I am praying for some kind of Divine intervention to bring us out from this situation unscathed. But whatever the outcome of this litigation, it will hurt every Ismaili Muslim. We have to ponder over this matter very seriously so that it does not happen again.

With best regards, Nizar Ali K. Shivji.

What does Mehmani mean and its significance ?
On June 18th, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

An interetsing post and my response?

Post by Follower :The question of whether the mehmani was accepted 18 years ago does not and will not arise. First of all, the mehmani that was presented was a tray of fruit/nuts etc and not a book. The book was with it. A mehmani is an ‘offering’ from the murid to the Imam. No doubt the tray was an offering and whether that was blessed or not is irrelevant for the purposes of this case. But how can a book containing the Imam’s own words be offered to him as mehmani?? How can you present an offering to the Imam and say well, ‘I’m offering to you your own Farmans. Can you bless them’? One cannot present the Imam’s blessing back to him as mehmani! However, when the book was sent to the Imam in Jan 2010, the Imam immediately took a stand to have it stopped by any means. The Imam reiterates in his reply that he SAW the book (not knowing its contents) and then the book was taken away. My opinion is that he never considered it as mehmani so the issue of blessing it never arises!

Reply by bloglaw Posted on June 17, 2010 at 11:33 PM
Follower & Editor : The mehmani including the book was seen and accepted and therefore blessed. I feel you have not understood fully what mehmani, is, means, contains, can contain and symbolises materially spiritually, in presence of the Imam and in JK’s ( & what is Mun Murad? ).
I wonder if are there any books or articles available to the Jamat by our institutions which we can access and read on this subject ? The best way to ask and find out from ITREB and our AL Waezeens.

There are some resources available on some websites including Heritage. I wonder why not in the IIS or the official websites ?

* United Kingdom

What does Mehmani mean.......
On June 18th, 2010 Dilawar Momin (not verified) says:

Dear bloglaw,
Can you tell me where this was posted? I tried to look here but I didn't find it. I am responding to this post after reading this one.
Do you think it is appropriate to interprete a particular event which occured 18 years ago and based on that interpretation one can take this big step of printing farmans of Imam? I am asking this because interpretation can lead you to any where. I know everybody has right to interprete. But interpretation is very subjective. Does this justifies the action?

The resources are available on some websites including Heritage is because there is no responsibility attached to it.. They are not answerable to any body including themselves. And when there is no responsibility attached to any action you know very well how people behaves and what happens as you live in western world.

* United States

Where posted Mehmani post
On June 18th, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

This was on Vancoveritte and the editor made a comment !

* United Kingdom

Kalam E Imam i Mubin, Golden Edition.
On June 17th, 2010 Dilawar Momin (not verified) says:

I have a very simple question. Why our institution, responsible for printing the Farmans, is not printing the Farmans?

* United States

Printing Farmans
On June 17th, 2010 Aman (not verified) says:

I also dont understand because MHI has said these are all available in all Jamat Khanas, so they have all been ready for reading, printing & distributiing. The institution has said these are being printed in 2 volumes. I am not a publisher but these could be printed in a few weeks. So why has it taken well over 5 years to print them?

* United Kingdom

Printing Farmans
On June 18th, 2010 Dilawar Momin (not verified) says:

Farman books are not published for more than 30 years. It takes few weeks to print. So why they are not printed?

* United States

I am sure it is because
On June 18th, 2010 MBA [Mane Badho Awreche] (not verified) says:

I am sure it is because Hazar Imam has not authorised the institutions to print farmans since they are changing his words and editing whatever they do not like [remember London golden jubilee farmans]

I am sure...
On June 18th, 2010 Dilawar Momin (not verified) says:

You mean to say,the institution(s) are changing and editing Imams Farmans and there for Imam is not authorising them to print Farmans as He does not trust them. Farman are not published for more than 30 years. In this duration Institutions leadership has been changed at least 8 times.(appointment is for 4 years and therefore 8 cycles). So we can conclude that Imam is not able to find a trust worthy person to appoint in His own institutions from all countries wherever these institutions exist,( Imam had following number of chances:15Countries*8 Cycles=120 chances). What can we infer and conclude from this? Where does this kind of our statements lead to?

* United States

30 years and no change !
On June 18th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I wonder if there been a real change in the top leadership in the last 20/30 years ? We see and hear the same names ? Am I wrong I wonder ?

* United Kingdom

For the best answer, I think
On June 17th, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

For the best answer, I think you should ask that directly to the institution(s) responsible of that.

The "best" answer.
On June 18th, 2010 Dilawar Momin (not verified) says:

A "thinking" person will not give this kind of answer. And will you accept and believe in the answers given by the institution(s)?

* United States

Yes, I will accept and
On June 23rd, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

Yes, I will accept and believe in the answers given by the authorized Ismaili institution(s), since they are responsible to publish and distribute the books of Mawlana Hazar Imam's Farman.

I will accept
On June 25th, 2010 Dilawar Momin (not verified) says:

So you ask the responsible institution and I am sure you will get the answer.

* United States

I don’t have to ask that
On June 26th, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

I don’t have to ask that to any Ismaili Institution because I don’t have that question. I was just telling YOU to ask that question directly to ismaili institutions that is responsible to publish and distribute the Farman’s of Mawlana Hazar Imam because on June 18, 2010 you stated “Farman books are not published for more than 30 years. It takes few weeks to print. So why they are not printed? “ (your last sentence is grammatically wrong).

Re: Dilawar Momin's "The 'best' answer"
On June 18th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Touché ! :-)

* Canada

Good question...
On June 17th, 2010 Chai (not verified) says:

They are printing firmans, thats why we hear them in Jamatkhane. As to why there's no compilation of firman books available... That's because the Imam has not authorized any firman books to be printed yet. If you read his response to the defendants, it will become clear.

Good Question
On June 18th, 2010 Concerned Momin (not verified) says:

Chai,

Are you trying to say that Imam does not want us to ready his firmans?

* Canada

Good Question.
On June 18th, 2010 Dilawar Momin (not verified) says:

I would take the question this way. "Are you trying to say that Imam does not want us to read his Farmans not authorised by Him or authorised but not approved for publication and circulation?

* United States

Good Question
On June 18th, 2010 Concerned Momin (not verified) says:

Why would it not be approved for publication. For last 35 years the leaders have failed us.
Just by listening in Jamat Khana, I am convinced that I forget. If it makes me happy to
read at home, why should I be restricted and Hazar Imam has never made a farman that
his firmans should not be published by ITREB or any other entity. Wake up and smell the
roses.

* Canada

Good..
On June 18th, 2010 Dilawar Momin (not verified) says:

You mean to say leaders have not approved the Farmans for publication? Is Hazar Imam obliged to make Farmans according to your wish or liking or happiness or regarding what ITREB has to do and not to do? Imam give guidances to institutions directly regarding what to do and not to do. Imams FARMANS enlighten all aspects of our life, gives us happiness and other benefits but I will forsake these happiness and benefits if the source of these farmans and farmans itself are not authorised, as Imam knows the best what is good for His spiritual children and how and when to give.

* United States

Is it a stalement or an impasse?
On June 17th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Is it a stalemate or an impasse? – (Nizar Ali K. Shivji)

When somebody suggests that our institutes should work together to resolve the problems confronting the Jamat, the onus is strictly on that particular institute to settle within our jurisdiction, the Arbitration Board. It requires strength, absolute humbleness, and willingness to adhere to this honorable path.

LIF has made it very clear to the global Jamat its intention that it is working within the frame work of Ismaili Muslim Constitution. So how can one suggest to these leaders to rethink, and change the course it has taken? This Law suit is sad, as it raises the questions about material; and spiritual life of an Ismaili Muslim. But we should remind ourselves that it is not a fight between spiritual and material life. It does not have a devolving religious connotation. It is not a clash between good and the bad. It is merely a strike on the wrist which has evolved and has to devolve.

The only alternative at the present time is to allow the law to take its course and let the court pronounce the judgment. This action on the part of the court will definitely remove all the anxiety, nervousness, concern, apprehension, and fretfulness that are building in the Jamat. Right now we all are dwelling on words and nothing but the words.

Some have already rendered their judgment in this lawsuit. Some have even questioned the fallibility of the Imam. Hazar Imam is our Spiritual Father. He has never articulated His divinity. So also the Allah has never said to mankind do as I say or you will suffer the consequence. So far Hazar Imam has not said anything but have reminded us to work within the frame work of Ismaili Muslim Constitution, and our Tariqua.

I feel it is cruel to brand anybody guilty until proven guilty. By bringing in a new panel of adjudicators to explore the possibility to resolve this matter is like expelling one group of jury and bring in a new group of jury who does not have the power to decide the matter differently.

This lawsuit is exposed to the extent that every Noordin, Jessa, and Shamir knows; it is blown out of proportion. Some have drawn their conclusion, because they feel this matter has a spiritual connotation. And they feel, the spirituality always wins.

Defendants’ are Hazar Imam’s Murids, and are also Hazar Imam’s Spiritual children. According to them, they have also affirmed to being devoted followers of Hazar Imam and they will unconditionally abide by the wishes of Hazar Imam.

This lawsuit in its entirety has hurt everybody; I believe this also includes the defendants. It has happened, and it should end amicably. Let the court be the catalyst to facilitate a settlement.

If Hazar Imam wanted to take the laws is his hand, he would have without any hesitation expelled the defendants. So far this has not happened and will not happen because Hazar Imam is our Spiritual Father. A father will punish His children, but His love and affection will always remain with His children because He wants to see His children happy, healthy, hearty, law abiding citizens, prosperous, and enjoy cheery longevity.

Let us refrains from proposing resolutions. We have to see this matter through the eyes of a lay person who goes to the mosque during four seasons and prays in the name of Allah, Prophet Muhammad (S.A.S.), and His progeny. He prays for the continuous Allah’s grace and mercy, and he also prays for all Hazar Imam’s Murids. His prayers are not partial but for everybody. He becomes selfless.

When we are in any prayer house, we pray for the betterment of the mankind. We become charitable; sympathetic, compassionate, kindhearted, benevolent, and considerate so that Allah (God) will listen to us when we beg for His grace and mercy.

Let the law take its course
On June 17th, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

Ameen, and let us pray that

1 This lawsuit is settled soon (If not the law will take its course and a judgement given by the court)
2 Farmans are made available to all murids in all JK's and in remote locations as confirmed by the Imam.
3 Farmans are in the process of being printed by the institutions will be printed and distributed soon to all murids.

Ameen

* United Kingdom

Let the law take its course
On June 18th, 2010 Natsie (not verified) says:

Bloglaw, why are you being so ignorant. I am kind of sick reading your comments
and I am saying this as an individual person not taking sides.
Get a Life.

* Canada

Lawsuit as a last resort
On June 17th, 2010 Chai (not verified) says:

Interesting though Nizar, But it's a little too late for "everyone to come together". Several attempts were made to reach out to the defedants before any legal action was taken, and those failed. The defendants chose to ignore them. The lawsuit was launched after that. The plaintiff has proven that is indeed the Aga Khan. He has asked for the defendants to stop distributing the books. The ball is in their court.

Ya Ali Madat.

Nizar Ali K. Shivji's post of the 17-6
On June 18th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
You don't seem to have understood what I meant in my post re: doing something to resolve this internally, brother Nizar.
With all due respect, do you to a mosque or to a Jamat Khana??

* Canada

More answers needed
On June 17th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

MOWLA-ALI-MADAT, (alias) CHAI! Please accept my sincere thanks and gratitude for your related contribution in this matter. Normally I do not engage myself in this kind of session but you have also made me very inquisitive.

You have shed some light in this matter and you are forthright in your input but at the same time, you have opened a box of many questions which require the prompt and sincere answers.

You appear to suggest that there is still an opportunity for a constructive dialogue. I am repeating the question which is relayed to you by (alias) BLOGLAW. Do you have any specific information to share on this matter? You appear to be sincere in your saying that the opportunities were given and negotiations were conducted but fell short on agreement.

I do not wish to dwell on how this matter happened but I do believe that it should have an amicable closing. Do you think the defendants should again take the initiative and open the communication with the party concern? How would you suggest to the defendants to make their move since you say that “the ball is in their court?” Would you recommend a meeting, if there is a change in thinking of all concerned?

To whom, should the defendants approach to begin the dialogue to end this matter amicably? Beside the LAW COURT, do you think a third party intervention is required to accelerate this matter?

With YA-ALI-MADAT, I am Nizar Ali K. Shivji and these are my questions. My apology to anyone who feels my approach is orthodox.

Was there any effort to reach out to the defendants ?
On June 17th, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

It seems no efforts were made after the telephone conversation on 18 Febriary 2010 and before the lawsuit was initiated and filed? Chai you say efforts were made and defendants chose to ignore these efforts. Chai if you have specific information then please share them. or are you simple assuming this to be the case. Also after the lawsuit was filed what efforts have been made to settle out of court ? It seems none so far ? Chai I personally believe it is never to late and where there is a will there is a way.

* United Kingdom

Yes there was...
On June 17th, 2010 Chai (not verified) says:

Have you no read the lawsuit itself, or the notarized statement, or the statement to the defense by the Aga Khan. It is very clear that efforts were made - 2 letters personally signed the the Imam, and a phone call by his brother to verify the request. Those were efforts made outside of the court. And they were ignored.

Unless you don't believe that the Aga Khan himself is the plaintiff, things will still remain "confusing" to you.

Well it seems not, unless
On June 22nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Well it seems not, unless forging signatures count as much as a real one.

I read these documents, this
On June 17th, 2010 Kericho (not verified) says:

I read these documents, this Alnaz, she is saying she never received any forged or non-forged letters from Bapa or anyone and Nagib is saying there was no call from Prince Amyn so who is lying? Also the claim says she is operating a web-site, does anyone know which one? I would like to see what is in her web-site.

Are you referring to the
On June 17th, 2010 Kericho (not verified) says:

Are you referring to the forged letters?

A proposal to Leaders and Defendants for settlement ?
On June 15th, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

Whatever has happened so far, should not be a reason not to settle and to work together. Imam guides and wishes us to do so. Imam is happiest for us when we all work together. This is in our best interest (materially and spiritually)

I personally feel that some of the leaders in question and the 2 defendants have reached a stalemate, an impasse. Therefore they need a catalyst for facilitating an amicable settlement

The lawyers it seems may not recommend meetings without them present even if without prejudice. This also need not be and should not be a reason not to. The leaders in question it seems are not using all the recourses available internally including our CAB-ADR, etc . This also need not and should also not be a reason not to proactively and collaboratively do so..

A prposal to consider, (if not done so far is). LIF to appoint for this case only, a team of leaders who are mandated to fully understand, negotiate, arbitrate and settle each of the issues. The defendants should also be consulted and invited to add others Leaders to that team.

The new team can therefore have a meeting with the defendants and start a dialogue. (there seems to be none since the lawsuit) The present stalemate and impasse needs to be reversed quickly to facilitate dialogue (without preconditions and not ruling out a joint approach and recommendation to the Imam for a joint audience & guidance – as a last resort) This will add to the comfort and the catalyst to a dialogue for a settlement).

Maybe since all are reconfirming love & devotion for the Imam, a conclave type 2/3/4 day meeting to settle all issues and agree the text of what is best to file in court to settle and close this lawsuit.

Imam’s guidance & blessings can then be sought for the settlement jointly recommended by the Leaders and the defendants.

I don’t know if the above will be agreeable to the defendants or the leaders in question. However I think everyone will appreciate that such a proposal will not be easy for leaders and defendants because of the extreme levels of confusion and conflict within them (their nafs, hearts and minds), which created and or resulted in the present situation, which are totally unprecedented in the history of Ismailis.

Let us hope and pray that we are all blessed with a special unity of resolve and purpose to find and deliver a solution internally and together.

* United Kingdom

Could we do something to help resolve matters?
On June 14th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
To all the brothers and sisters that visits this page and to the Heritage Staff,

Is there nothing we could do to help resolve the matter of the lawsuit for the farman book?

How about a petition requesting the leadership to resolve the matter internally (since most of us are convinced that the lawsuit was not initiated by Hazer Imam since He never breaks the bayyat of a mureed)?
Or how about writing to LIF to tell them a) we do not believe that Hazer Imam could break the bayyat of a mureed and engage a lawsuit b) to please resolve the matter internally.

By the way, has the notice been served to the defendants?

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

lawsuit to stop
On June 15th, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

I totally agree with your point! This lawsuit is very sad, will make many troubles in your community! All ismailis around the world must be concerned and must give their “point of vue”! silent, young, old, intellectuals, scientists murids , it is an opportunity to tell to the Leadership, “listen more the aspirations of the Jamat,, make more communication with all diverse, plurial members , be more tolerant, and apply the Directives of Mowlana Hazar Imam. He was very clear during the Daebar of London! Be ambitious for the The young generation of the third millenary .
For me, personnaly, I have the intime conviction that Mowlana Hazar Imam does not wish this lawsuit! He has many possibilities to solve this problem, His representants, Mukhis and kamadias, His past leaders, The Institutions , NCAB, ITREB, IIS….. are all have been consulted?

I have read this sentence and propose to your leaders to think about:
« Leadership is the art of getting someone else to do something you want done because he wants to do it.”

And to nagib, Alnaj Jiwa, I never meet you, I do not know you but I have a great esteem, admiration for your implications and for your Love To Mowla and for your sacrifices for His Jamat! I admire you and every day, I pray Mowla to keep you right, in right way of Siratal- Mustaquim!

I am sorry, my english is little broken, Yes, I do not follow very well Mowlana ‘s farmans , and I have for you a text , written in French because, I am sure you have actually very difficult moments! Be sure, I and many ismailis share your difficulty!
I read recently the interwiew In Sunday Times by Nicholas Tomalin who asked this “Are you, for all believing Ismailis, a symbol of their Faith? And mowla bapa answereded: "Yes, The Imam's word on the Faith is taken as an absolute rule. Every Ismaili is expected to accept it. One has to make a very careful distinction here between worldly and religious matters. An Ismaili may ask My advice on a worldly problem, then not accept it. But if he were to ignore the Imam's decision on matters of Faith, the Community pressures on him would be very strong."

So, be strong, keep your faith intact, be sure Mowlana nevers forget you! Please, accept mthis little contribution!

Dans la vie, chacun de nous traverse souvent des Orages.
Mais, nous savons aussi que la Lumière,
Est toujours avec les Nuages,
Et celui qui saura capter cette Lumière,
Dans son jardin Intérieur,
Celui là saura être fort, patient,
Et sentira venir l'Accalmie,
Il exprime alors cette forme de sérénité,
Une Force Inébranlable, cette grandeur d'Ame,
De quelqu'un sûr d'atteindre l'Eclaircie !
Il nous faut souhaiter, espérer
Plus de Lumière dans les Nuages,
Et la force Intérieure compter sur les Eclairs !
And, I would like again insist that it is not necessary in our internet exchanges to be aggressive, intolerant because, we are all brothers and sisters and Mowlana Hazar Imam spiritual children. Please, please, do not forget this important point!
And all we have again in the mind the Golden Jubilee Darbars and the happiness of Mowla! I think, during these moments, we all re actualise your esoteric approach of our Faith. And according to the Ginans, the Imam is the source of guidance for mankind. He shows the right path, saves his followers from ignorance and acts as a Divine Light in the darkness. Thus it is said:
Murshid diwa hai Joog-ma,
jo aan dikhave ser-re;
E baatt bahot rariyamani,
jiya(n) chorasi nahi(n) fer-re
Translation:
In this world the Master is the Light
who enlightens the Spiritual Path;
the Way is most wonderful
on which there is no failure.

And finally, myself, I offer this poem to my Mowlana and with humility and modesty, I propose it to all my sisters and brothers !
Ya ali madat
Guide Spirituel du Temps Présent,
Offrant Son Aura au Monde entier,
La vision par le cœur du Divin Intérieur,
Din et Dounia réunis dans l’harmonie,
Essence d’Allah du Zâhir et du Bâthuni,
Noor capable d’éclairer mon Aq’l.

Je suis venu à Toi par le Bhayaat,
Union du Cœur et de l’Intellect,
Béni soit le jour de Notre rencontre,
Initié aux secrets ésotériques de ma Foi,
Lumière scintillante dans mon cœur,
Ensemble, rendons Grâce à l’Imam du Temps Présent,
En vérité, Oh les croyants, Son Noor a traversé les âges de L’humanité !

Islam est ma profession de foi,
Mon Mowla est toujours avec moi,
A chaque instant, je prends mon tasbih,
Mes pensées se tournent vers l’Eternel,
Epris d’une vie intérieure sereine,
Zélé et humble serviteur de l’Imam du Temps Présent,
A Celui qui me prends sous Sa protection,
Mains jointes, je Lui adresse mes Sukranas,
Adepte de la quête spirituelle, j’aspire au saint
Noorani et Bhatini Deedar !

* France

Re: Le commentaire de Mohez Nato
On June 16th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Les poèmes sont très touchants, je ne doute pas un instant que Mowla Bapa aime et accepte celui qui lui est destiné ! Merci d'avoir précisé que vous priez quotidiennement pour Nagib et Alnaz : je me sens ainsi moins seule, je sais que quelqu'un d'autre aussi prie.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Imam guides and wishes us to ask
On June 15th, 2010 bloglow (not verified) says:

Abdullah, Many murids and most leaders fear asking critical questions because it has been sadly discouraged top down. This lawsuit and comments show that many are struggling with truly understanding, living and/or feeling the materiality and spirituality of bayat and freewill between ourselves and/or with our Imam.

So what is needed more is everyone who wishes to learn more, should ask the following questions (& more if they wish) to our Leaders, to ITREB, to IIS,Waezeens & Scholars,;

1 Bayat - Spiritual and m,aterial (can Imam break a bayat of a murid for distributing farmans to other murids) and

2 Freewill - spiritual and material. When a leader or any murid is about to do something wrong, does Imam intervene selectively with that choice. Imam of course will have guided them materially and spiritually.

3 Questions and critique : Does the Imam welcome and wish us to ask any type of questions from our leaders ITREB and waezeens which are concerning and worrying us both spiritually and materially ?

* United Kingdom

Bloglaw' s above post
On June 18th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
You will find the answer to question # 3 in a farman He made to students in Moshi on 22-10-1966 ! Happy reading, bloglaw!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Imam guides and wishes us to ask
On June 16th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Dear Bloglow, Here may be the answer to 3. Question and critic

“ચાંદરાતના પંજેભાઈઓએ પોતાને મિશનરી સમજવું. જેઓ પંજેભાઈ હોય અને જમાતખાનામાં હાજરી ન આપતા હોય તેઓને સમજાવી તેઓ જમાતખાનામાં હાજરી આપે તે માટે કોશીશ કરવી. એ પ્રામાણે સમજાવવાથી હજરી વધીને ત્રણ ઘણી થશે.
દરેક મોમને પોતાને મિશનરી સમજવાની કોશીશ કરવી.” (મુંબઈ 29-1-1939)

Translation: “Panjebhais of Chandrat should consider themselves as missionaries ….. Convince those Panjebhais who do not come to Jamatkhana, to attend it. With such efforts the Jamats’ presence will be 3 times.
It is the duty of every Momin/ Murid to consider himself missionary.” (Mumbai 29-1-1939)

The above Farman of MSMS is read out almost every Chandrat in all over Jamatkhana in Pakistan and India, which means the Farman is still valid and is not replaced by any Farman of Hazar Imam.
The question is, if every Murid/ Ismaili is to consider himself to be a missionary, then it is the duty of the knowledgeable Murid to explain Ismailism to other less knowledgeable Murids. And which is the best way to convince the other Murids, other than quoting relevant Farmans of Imam of the Time, which naturally includes, in the present age, dissemination of the recent Farmans to all those who are eager to improve understanding of there faith.
So, how can one believe that Hazar Imam wants to stop the distribution of ‘The Golden Book’ to eager Ismailis?
Also please read the followings:

Imam Jafar-al-Sadiq was asked: “What is giving life to your cause, O son of the Messenger of God?”
He replied,”By discussing it in the company of people of learning, of religion, and of intelligence.” (quoted in Qadi al-Numan, Daaim al-Islam, page-80)

“The second question is within that vision of the younger generation, one generation from now, two generations from now, what are the questions they will be asking?
They will be asking first of all, how do they relate to our Tariqa? And therefore they will be asking, what is the essence of our Tariqa? And are we able to articulate the essence of the Tariqa in a language which is a language they will understand, not having been born in our traditional society, never having seen them, never having been exposed to them, how will they sense their position in our Tariqa? Question number one. And that of course, affects the articulation of Imamat. Because you cannot articulate the Tariqa without articulating the concept of Imamat.” (Hazar Imam, at the institutional dinner, Vancouver, 25-8-1992).

* Pakistan

Critical questions..
On June 16th, 2010 Chai (not verified) says:

Critical questions are fair when matters are "grey"
1. The Imam can do whatever he pleases. If he has asked you to stop distributing his authored works, then you should.
2. Free will - He just did. The defendants, - whether their intentions - were selectively asked to stop
3. You can question and critique anything you want - this is after a faith of intellect. But, when the Imam himself deems something a certain way... I'm not sure if you really can go against it.

Imam guides and wishes us to ask
On June 15th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Bloglow: Sorry my typo. error to your above subject. Should read........my parents would tell me that, we should not "discuss or ask", otherwise we will get "paap"......Thank you

* Canada

Imam guides and wishes us to ask
On June 15th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Bloglow: Excellent posting. With regard to your 3 questions, I think Jamati members should be more open-minded, not only few. When I was young, I remember when I would ask any question (any of your above questions), my parents would tell me that we should "discuss or ask", otherwise we will get "paap". Time has changed, and as we have been guided by our Imam, that "we have to progress according to the time", and I think that the new generation's view will be different, and they will question, and the leaders should be ready to answer. If I can recall Hazar Imam has encouraged us to have more knowledge of our Faith, so that we are ready to answer any questions. From reading some of the postings here, they are very knowledgeable, and I think Hazar Imam will be Happy, if he reads them!! Thank you.

* Canada

Faith
On June 14th, 2010 Concerned Murid (not verified) says:

According to my iman, nothing happens without Mowla's marji (wish). Even a leaf will not fall off the branch without
mowla's wish. In order to compile and come up with this Holy Farman book is a miracle. It also got distributed
to so many families in the world. I really don't understand what is wrong in reading Mowla's farman in the
comfort of your home. Since last 35 years, I have not seen a farman book printed in Canada. I heard that
there was a green book printed, but I do not have it.

I remember growning up back in Uganda, I had to read a para. from the firman before my breakfast.
Since Nagib has come up with this firman book, everybody should work as a team and make it official.
Let us all bring down our ego and work together.

Naima a Khuda ne Gayma.

Concerned Murid!!!

* Canada

Re: Concerned Murid's post ("Faith")
On June 14th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Brother Murid, if what you say (= "nothing happens without His marji" (Wish, Will) holds, then by the same token, the lawsuit must have happened by His marji too; I would prefer to say that nothing happens without His knowing it and ALLOWING it (rather that His Wishing, Willing it (= Marji), these are 2 different notions) because He cannot interfere with the free will that human beings have been given. If we bring in His marji rather than His letting things happen, then, there is no more "poonya" or "paap" (good actions, sins), and there is no more need for the Day of Judgment for the believers because He is the sole one to act, and both poonya and paap are His, not ours. But we do believe in the Final Judgment, so His Marji is not at play for ordinary believers, it is only at play for those who are totally merged with Him, totally one with Him while being on this earth.
There is a farman of Hazer Imam in which He says that human beings are, to some extent, masters of their own destiny; this means that we decide what we want to do.

I hope I am not confusing matters, Brother.
I share your concern too. It is June already, and no solution is in sight... Mowla mahèr karè...Ameen.

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Freewill Imam guides us on sirat ul mustaquim
On June 15th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Abdullah is right that Imam knows and guides us through the tawil and talim of the Quran both materially and spiritually. Many of us did and do struggle with this. Whilst Imam knows, we are also guided to follow Imam's guidance in our freewill and the choices we make (intellect/Faith). If we read and follow the farmans of the Imam of the time then we can will make the choices which are the best for us in this world and the next. Hence Imam has said Farmans are available in all JK's and in remote locations too. This is how we can move on the right path and elevate our nafs & selves. The following will help. Sura 89:27 speaks of the nafs mutma'inna (the soul at peace). This is the level at which, as the Qur'an says, the person witnesses God's signs on the horizons and within all their own 3 nafs (their own inner selves). Their own self (nafs) becomes a place where His signs are disclosed and manifested. When the self is an abode of peace then in the quiet of this abode it becomes possible to witness this manifestation. It is said that God manifests himself in the silences of the soul - so one who is always distracted with the internal noise of desires, passions, distractions, egotism etc. will never be truly conscious of God. In order to listen, in order to hear, one has to be silent. If a person never stops talking, they will never be able to properly listen to another - they will be distracted with their own outpourings, their own opinions, their own ego. They will never reach a point of internal quietude (of peace) and thus that which is subtle will never be experienced. And the Qur'an describes God as "The Subtle, the Aware." One has to cease talking, and then cultivate an alert but calm attentiveness in order to see deeper than the surface. Just as the depths of a pond become invisible when the surface water is in constant rough motion, our own depths become invisible when we are in constant agitation and movement. The people of this level know the great Reality behind the world and the endless distractions of this life are seen in their proper perspective - they no longer dominate but yet they are given their proper due.

* United Kingdom

Freewill Imam guides us on sirat ul mustaquim
On June 15th, 2010 Concerned Murid (not verified) says:

Very interesting. You do have a fantastic knowledge.

I always said that if one did not judge than they would be no
noise in the mind and having awareness can take you to Pure Potentiality which
is your soul, which is blissful.

* Canada

Global head of ITREB on Conciliation and Arbitration
On June 14th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

A recent interesting & relevant article by the global head of ITREB who is a lawyer, a governor of the IIS, and an expert on Arbitration. I wonder why this process was not followed in this case?

" ..Under the Constitution promulgated in 1986, provision is made for a National Conciliation and Arbitration Board (NCAB) for each of the territories specified in the Constitution. ....Trained lawyers, with a background on the laws of the country sit on a panel to explain the interface between the laws of the land and the ADR processes used in the CAB system..

..The Boards also act as an arbitration and judicial body and accordingly hear and adjudicate upon commercial, business and other civil liability matters and domestic and family matters..

The informing ethos of all these boards are the principles of negotiated settlement (sulh) and forgiveness embodied in the Holy Qur'an, the Sunnah (tradition) of the Prophet (P.B.U.H.), the guidance of the earlier Imams and the teaching and guidance of the present, 49th Imam. The Boards always operate within the laws of the various countries in which they function.

In keeping with the guidance of the present Imam, an international training programme was launched in England in 2000 with a view to upgrading the skills and proficiencies of the volunteers that make up the Conciliation and Arbitration system of the Shi'a Imami Ismaili Muslims ...These training programmes have been conducted with input from various specialists on law, economics, counselling, ADR, and Islamic jurisprudence.

An important aspect of the training programmes is to ensure a balance between the lived wisdom of the various communities, the basic ethical framework of Islam which emphasizes care, compassion and consideration and the principles of contemporary ADR practice.

This is done by involving the NCABS in the designing of the training programmes, with a view to trying to understand their specific needs within the socio-juridical contexts in which they function and drawing upon those traditions which actually work within those contexts.

The training programmes .....draw upon the guidance of the present Imam, who often exhorts in his Farman's (guidance to the Community) the value of family unity, the need for compromise and greater understanding in the situation of conflict and the value of post conflictual support to help ".

The programmes ..are conceptualized to ensure a balance between a "top down", inductive approach and a "bottom up", deductive one (JP Lederach). ..

* United Kingdom

Re: Bloglaw's post of June 14 (above)
On June 14th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for this most interesting article, Bloglaw. Would you know what ADR stands for? If so, could you tell us?

I hope the CAB people who get the training remain in post for a while and then get to train their replacements. It would be most valuable and interesting to have access to articles, material on the Islamic law and jurisprudence that is given to these CAB members... I remember hearing a Guinean say (shortly after 9-11) to a Western journalist that western law was based on the individual (or something like that :-), and Islamic law was based on the community...
I am not sure prisons are an answer to reduce criminality, and I am not sure that the First Nations' s Healing Circles take into account the law of Karma (with regards to : What you sow, you reap (I am saying it from the standpoint of the victim). I often think that authors of crimes are probably very ill in their minds and emotions, or else they would not carry out the crime...

Again, thank you for your post, Bloglaw.

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

CAB
On June 14th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

ADR stands for Alternative Dispute Resolution This is now a part of the legal system in UK and adopted by many countries because it is cheaper and faster than court proceedings or formal Arbitration. CAB is a better, cheaper and faster Alternative. The following will also help (from the IIS website)

Mohamed Keshavjee
Mohamed Keshavjee is a lawyer by profession having trained in England, Kenya and Canada where he practised at the Bar. In Canada, he worked with a group of concerned Canadians to raise consciousness about the work of the United Nations and was Programme Chairman of the United Nations Association of Ontario.

In 1980 Mr Keshavjee joined the Secretariat of His Highness the Aga Khan at Aiglemont, France as Information Officer and served the needs of the Aga Khan Development Network, with a special focus on the activities of the Aga Khan Award for Architecture. In that capacity he has travelled to and worked in many Muslim countries such as Yemen, Morocco, Turkey, Jordan and Egypt in addition to the former Soviet Union and China. In 1986 he was appointed Co-ordinator for Tariqah and Religious Education Boards at Aiglemont and was elected to the Steering Committee of the World Mediation Forum at its 4th International Meeting in Buenos Aires.

Mr Keshavjee recently completed his LLM at the University of London with a focus on Islamic Law, International Protection of Human Rights, Alternative Dispute Resolution and Arab Comparative Commercial Law. He is currently pursuing a Doctorate in Law within the field of Alternative Dispute Resolution in Islam.

Yam.

* United Kingdom

Bloglaw' s above post (CAB)
On June 16th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for your precisions on ADR, Bloglaw, and on M. Keshavjee too.

* Canada

He is in London. The laws
On June 16th, 2010 Chai (not verified) says:

He is in London. The laws and legal avenues in Canada are slightly different

Very Surprising
On June 14th, 2010 Amin (not verified) says:

This is very surprising. Mr Alnaz Jiwa is a Lawyer in Toronto. I wonder if he was invited to be a part of the Arbitration Board ? Since he is a defendantI suppose not.Is he or Mr Tajdin or were they leaders before the case. If they were then as ex leaders should there have not been more effort at conciliation, compromise, settlement and more understanding !

* United Kingdom

no action in 18 years - but lawsuit within weeks in 2010!
On June 13th, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

Imam says he authorised requests (He meant to ITREB/Leaders) for Nagib and Alnaz to stop prior to 2009. There seems to be no such requests or action to stop them for nearly 18 years. Why not I wonder? Yet in 2010 within weeks of a conversation in Feb 2010, an unprecedented lawsuit is actioned and filed. Why I wonder?

* United Kingdom

Thanks
On June 13th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Dear Heritage Staff,
Thank you ever so much for allowing the posting of comments and discussions about the lawsuit on this page, on your site! So much valuable information is thus shared among various members of the Jamat who visit this page.
And thank you also for the speed with which you provided all the relevant links on your main page when Hazer Imam came to Toronto for the ceremony of the 28 of May.
All the best to your staff! Keep up the good work.
I trust there is no new development in the lawsuit? Your last update was on May 22.

Ya Aly madad !
Kanize

* Canada

new developments
On June 13th, 2010 Aman (not verified) says:

Ditto Kaniza, And I hope that the team of leaders now involved and the lawyers are all proactively having a dialogue with Tajdin and Jiwa to agree to settle and to re assure them regarding their concerns.

* United Kingdom

Respect the position of the Imam of the Time
On June 12th, 2010 ali (not verified) says:

Mr. Tajdin and Mr. Jiwa must not demand Mulakat with Imam of the Time. Remember, it is our belief that if Mawlana Hazar Imam wishes to talk to you then you speak to HIM. It is Mawlana Hazar Imam's prerogative to decide, if HE wishes to offer a Mulakat, otherwise there will be large number of cases where murids will demand mulakats and undermine our institurions. Remember there is no democracy in the faith, either you believe in it or being stubborn and still demand for the mulakat. Please do not force Imam of Time for the mulakat.

Mawlana Hazar Imam has responded in HIS affidavit to all the allegations that Mr. Tajdin and Mr. Jiwa had. From Mawlana Hazar Imam's affidavit, it is proven that it was not leaders who filed the lawsuit.

* United States

Re: Ali's comment of the 12 June
On June 13th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Re: who (really) filed the lawsuit, the future only will tell, brother Ali, provided truth triumphs over deceit...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

the real story
On June 12th, 2010 nilufar (not verified) says:

The imam says he wishes to correct errors in his firmans. Has he admitted fallibilty? I think he has. This is the real story - that the imam, in court papers has admitted fallibilty and therefore denied divinity.

* United Kingdom

Nilu far (from reality), you
On June 13th, 2010 Hussein (not verified) says:

Nilu far (from reality), you got the fallibility and divinity of the Imam of the Time all WRONG. I am not going to try to explain it but I will encourage you to search for the real meaning of these terms on your own. Please take your time to do so. Just one example I will give though, just look at the history of first 50 years of Islam after Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and compare and analyze those events with these terms. Thanks.

Re: Hussein's comment re: Nilu
On June 13th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Yes, brother Hussein. No one could explain the above...Nilu could perhaps talk to an al-waez, as few people these days have the time to learn their faith's history...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Sorry, I meant to say
On June 13th, 2010 Hussein (not verified) says:

Sorry, I meant to say "infallibility" of the Imam in my above reply...because there is no such thing as fallibilty of the Imam in the context of Imamat's spiritual position...we should not be confused between worldly or physical aspects of the Imamat with religious and spiritual ones. Ismaili faith is clear as pure water without any residue, pollution or garbage. The formula is simple as just to follow the words (guidance) of the imam without any question on validity, doubts, comparison or referencing with issues in different context…etc. There won’t be a catalytic situation in any Ismaili’s mind if he/she has the faith as simple and strong. Or else, you are just out. Period.

Remember, the opposite of ‘faith’ is ‘doubt’. So If you have a doubt then you don’t have the faith.

the real story
On June 13th, 2010 AmarS (not verified) says:

Where did the Imam say he wishes to correct errors in his farmans. I believe he said he would like to look at the farmans before they are printed, because sometimes there are errors (not his, but the translators, transcribers, etc.). So dear, Imam has not admitted fallibility.

Imam has never claimed divinity. The world believes he is Divine. Oxford University gave him the title of Divinity. Some Ismailis believe he is divine and some don't.

* United States

the real story above comment by AmarS
On June 13th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

what do you mean Imam is not divine yet infallible? am i missing something here?
According to Shia and Ismaili Doctrine , my understanding is that , since Imam-e-Zaman are Divinely appointed and Guided and therefore they are IInfallible. correct me if i am wrong . Allah knows best .

* Canada

the real story above comment by Amars
On June 14th, 2010 AmarS (not verified) says:

It is Nilu who has doubt about Imam's infallibility and divinity. In my heart I know Imam is 100% Divine and Infallible. However, I was seeking clarification where she saw Imam claiming he made mistakes in his farmans.

Yes, there are Ismailis who do not know about our faith as brother Hussein said, so to them Imam is not infallible and not Divine, when the world claims he is Divine.

* United States

Re: Amar's reply to Nilu's "The real story"
On June 13th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Hello, AmarS ! Welcome back! Long time no hear/read :-) ! Thank you for the clarification in the first paragraph for Nilu. I hope she reads it.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Authority
On June 13th, 2010 Chai (not verified) says:

In addition, in the physical realm (where the lawsuit is taking place) - the Imamat concept of "authority" is relevant.
Divinity is a concept that is beyond the physical realm..

Physical / Spiritual Realm
On June 13th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

In that case, Farmans definetely do not belong in the Physical Realm of the Lawsuit. Incidentally, if you open the KIZ book on its very first page, there is an extract that shows the Divine origin of Farmans.

Fallibility?
On June 13th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

This is yet another big discrepancy that makes ismailis doubt the authenticity of the case.

Firstly, I don't think he
On June 13th, 2010 Chai (not verified) says:

Firstly, I don't think he said he wishes to correct any errors. Secondly, if he did, then it's his right. Thirdly, I dont think revisiting your own work to make changes suggests fallibility. Sometimes, things are said in a certain context - which might not make sense in years to come - hence the desire for some authors to modify their works.

Thirdly, the concept of Imamat in the material world (which is the realm of the lawsuit) relates to Authority. Not so much so divinity.

Great, very well said, Chai.
On June 13th, 2010 Hussein (not verified) says:

Great, very well said, Chai. You know, there are lot of Ismailies who are confused on the very basic concept of Imamat, its multiple roles and dynamics behind them. Some have ideas which are very impractical, illogical and voids the concept of Unity of God...they're just fundamentally flawed and this modern world's activities are probably leading them in even more ignorance.

What happened in the Mehmani?
On June 11th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

When Mehmani is presented with an extra gift offering, we often see one of three things happen:

- The Imam disregards the gift offering, in which case any acceptance is debatable

- The Imam picks up the gift offering, keeps it, and gives blessings in which case the gift is accepted

- The Imam Blesses the gift offering explicitely and leaves it on the tray in which case the gift is accepted and returned to the family who then treats it preciously and shares this blessed gift with as many friends, family and fellow ismailis as possible.

Which of these scenarios happened in 1992?

Blesed Gitft of Book and returned it
On June 11th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

The claim confirms That memani was accepted and returned. If Imam wished to keep the book Imam would have done so.Leaders if they wished to have a copy and they had requested they would have received a copy. Believer you are right also that Memani (in this case the content of the book) is for treasuring and sharing with Friends brothers and sisters (material and spiritual). The Claim adds that Imam did not keep the book and so did not know the Content. Did Imam actually say that or mean that or does that bit of the claim reflect accurately the Imam's wish?

* United Kingdom

Bloglaw' s above post
On June 12th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for clarifying my question below, Bloglaw.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Not to mention that there
On June 12th, 2010 Ghulam (not verified) says:

Not to mention that there was another book [Maybe the same, maybe a different one] presented to the Imam at the same day Mehmani by a person that I know, Ali [family name withheld] who did not ask any question, but the Imam by himself took it from the tray and kept it. That was also visible on the screen, I was there at that Mehmani in 1992. So saying the people took away the book is a little bit far fetch... Clearly the lawyers do not know about the concept of Mehmani and how it is conducted..

answer to Ghulam
On June 16th, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

Are you sure about that, did you check your information, who was the mukhi of Montreal, I think the leaders should ask him what happened exactly because those kind of things are unforgettable.

* Canada

Re: (above) Believer's post
On June 11th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, Believer, I wish we knew what did happen at that Mehmani. I hope Jenny can clarify it.

* Canada

Imam and Iman/What happened in Mehmani
On June 11th, 2010 Jenny (not verified) says:

The whole Jamat witnessed the incident, hence the commement of the Kalam-e-Imam Zaman Farman books.

* Canada

Re: Jenny's above post
On June 11th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Jenny, what did take place at that mehmani? You say that the Jamat witnessed the incident, what was that incident ? Can you describe it clearly? I would love to know, I was not there, at that mehmani, and I am not sure what I should look up to get the info. Thank you kindly in advance for taking the time to answer this question.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Imam and Iman
On June 10th, 2010 Jenny (not verified) says:

Iman and Imam

Iman:
The whole issue of this Claim revolves on the Farman (not pronouncement) that Hazar Imam made during Mehmani in 1992. As Ismailis we either believe it, or we don’t.

In the response to the defence it says :"The Aga Khan categorically denies having given any consent for publication.
He had 'sight' of the book in question during a religious offering in 1992 but the book was carried away and he had no knowledge of its contents."

Again as Ismailis, if we believe that Hazar Imam is Aql-e-qul, then this statement is hard to comprehend.

* Canada

IMAN & IMAM
On June 13th, 2010 SHEETAL (not verified) says:

Jenny

Prophet Mohamed has said that truth follows Ali; Ali does not follow truth.

* Canada

Imam & Iman
On June 11th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Jenny, The whole issue & claim or defence is not and does not revolve around the acceptance of memani and book by the Imam in 1992. What Imam knows spiritually is also I believe not an issue. I quote from an earleir post below and invite you to read that post on Imam and infalibility, Imam has also declared " ..... the Holy Prophet (S.A.S.) designated and appointed his cousin and son-in-law Hazrat Mawlana Ali Amiru-l-Mu'minin (Alayhi-s-salam), to be the first Imam to continue the Ta'wil and Ta'lim of Allah's final message and to guide the murids...."

* United Kingdom

Imam & Iman
On June 11th, 2010 Jenny (not verified) says:

Bloglaw, the whole issue does I believe revolve on this Mehmani, because this is where the explicit Farman (not pronouncemnt) was given, hence the inception of the Farman Books.

* Canada

"Trust"
On June 9th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

The bottom line here and for many years is that, Jamat has no trust in the leaders. It is sad. I think that time has changed and the new generation will have a different view, and these leaders have to change their ways of dealing with the Jamat. Our parents, and some of the older generation would accept things going on in the Jamat but not the new generation. One particular issue is the "gap" between us and the Imam. I am not talking spiritually. An ordinary murid cannot go near the Imam, or talk to him, only these leaders, or their relatives can. Thank you.

* Canada

Leaders appointed by Hazar
On June 10th, 2010 Chai (not verified) says:

Leaders appointed by Hazar Imam...
Are you suggesting and blaming him for leaders that you cannot trust?

Leaders are to blame
On June 10th, 2010 Aman (not verified) says:

Chai - No yasmin is not saying that at all and she also clarified she was not speaking spiritually.
Read also my post below.

* United Kingdom

Leaders are to blame
On June 11th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Aman: Thank you for clarifying my comments re: "Triust", to "Chai". Once again Thank You.

* Canada

Leader appointed by Hazar Imam
On June 10th, 2010 Natsie (not verified) says:

Please do not blow it out of context!!

* Canada

you are right.
On June 9th, 2010 Aman (not verified) says:

I agree. Imam has set up institutions, the constitution and governance structures. These are not being followed as some of the top leadership who are not letting go and levels of meritocracy have decreased and favouritism increased. Ismaili human capital available globally for our institutions which are for the benefit of the Jamat have not being unfortunately fully used or optimised, let alone being maximised. This goes against the Farman of Imam of the Time.

* United Kingdom

What did and should have happened !
On June 9th, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

I hope everyone will reflect on the following and give their opinions and suggestions, including especially the leaders & many murids who were involved (or are maybe in the know)

WHAT DID AND SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED FROM 4TH JANUARY TO 21 FEBRUARY 2010 - PART 1

The published book is received with a letter to the Imam on 4th Jan 2010. Shafik decides that distribution of this book must stop. In reaching his conclusions he will have consulted ITREB, IIS & LIF. In these consultations the reasons & options will have been considered. Dr Shafik knew that the book was being distributed only to Ismailies and why it was published.
Dr Shafik will have asked ITREB and IIS to also advise on the authenticity of the Farmans and Talikas, by a simple process of comparison between those available and those published.

After this Nagib was asked to stop by Dr Shafik (and maybe some other leaders at the behest of Dr Shafik). Alnaz was not. Nagib will said to Dr Shafik, he is happy to stop if he receives a response to his letter from the Imam and guidance. The reason why a letter was necessary will have been discussed with Dr Shafik

Dr Shafik will have therefore first consulted the heads of LIF, IIS and ITREB. Dr Shafik is the de facto head of each of them ) The reason Dr Shafik will or should have consulted them is to update them, and have a consensus. Also because Imam will wish that there has been a process of consultation and most important a consensus.

Dr Shafik will have then met the Imam with recommendations for guidance. He will have requested a letter which he will have drafted. Dr Shafik will have given his overview of what the leadership have done so far, their recommendations and Dr Shafik will have also assured the Imam that if a response to Nagib’s letter was sent by the Imam, Nagib & Alnaz and that this has been pre agreed with them by the leadership.

The Imam agrees and Dr Shafik sends the letter to Nagib on 24th Jan 2010. The letter content and style does not seem to be that of the Imam and did not specifically respond to the Letter from Nagib.

Nagib and Alnaz are therefore very concerned. They did not want to question the very top leadership before they are more certain. So they instructed forensic handwriting experts to give an independent opinion on the content and signature in that letter. The experts were of the professional view that the letter was not from the Imam

On 20 Feb 2010 Dr Shafik called Nagib. Nagib informed Dr Shafik about the forgeries in a heated discussion in which threats are made by DrShafik against Nagib. Nagib recorded the conversation and sent an email to Dr Shafik confirming the conversation. Nagib and Alnaz wanted clarifications of a number of matters.

After this conversation, Dr Shafik will have obviously considered the very serious allegations of forgery by him and the clarifications Nagib and Alnaz are seeking from the Imam. Lawyers will have been also been contacted by Dr Shafik for their opinion. A detailed review will have been conducted certainly by the DJI/LIF (if not ITREB at this stage)

Dr Shafik will have discussed the allegations and clarifications requested with the Heads of IIS, ITREB and LIF. Dr Shafik will have shared with them the full facts and the latest email from Nagib and the specific clarifications & guidance they are seeking from the Imam. They will have all then decided and agreed to recommend jointly that the Imam’s guidance be requested with a recommendation that a second specific letter be sent by the Imam to Nagib as will have been agreed by the LIF, and Nagib. This letter will have been drafted by an executive team of the leadership, with consultation of the Chair’s of the international and the national arbitration and conciliation Boards.

Dr Shafik is the effective head of LIF, ITREB, IIS, and therefore also through them, of the Arbitration and conciliation Boards.he would have been able to have immediate consultations with the by telephone and conference calls with all heads, legal review and opinions, including a meeting with the Imam, all within 24 hours.

Dr Shafik who will have then met the Imam on his own (or with other leaders) and will have explained the urgency, the allegations, the clarifications sought by Nagib, and the reason why a second letter was necessary. Imam will have been also assured that there was consultation and is consensus between the leaders of ITREB, IIS and LIF. Dr Shafik will also have assured the Imam that the Leaders have obtained specific assurances from Nagib & Alnaz that this letter will be sufficient for them to stop the distribution. The often asks the Leaders to reflect and reconsider. Then Imam meets them again approve and proceed. This obviously could not have happened on this occasion and for extremely serious allegations.
Within 24 hours, Dr Shafik was able to do all of the above, and also meet the Imam and to send a second letter from the Imam to Nagib. This letter was very similar and confrontational to the conversation between Nagib and Dr Shafik on 20th Feb 2010, including the threats of legal action by Dr Shafik. Therefore Alnaz and Nagib are understandably of the view that this letter too was not from the Imam.

The following are some critical questions arising from the above ?
1 Did Dr Shafik consult and had consensus from the executive teams, governors, & heads of, LIF, IIS & ITREB prior to sending the first letter from the Imam to Nagib?
2 Did Dr Shafik (or other leaders) at his behest contact Alnaz Jiwa ?
3 Did Dr Shafik consult and had a consensus from the executive teams, governors, heads of LIF, IIS , ITREB (and lawyers/professionals about the serious allegations) on the afternoon of 20th Feb and Morning of 21st Feb 2010?
4 Could Dr Shafik have within 24 hours between 20th and 21st Feb 2010, have had all the consultations and consensus necessary and meet the Imam and send a letter from the Imam to Nagib in one day?
5 Were there any arbitration and conciliation meetings held between Nagib/Alnaz and an independent team of leaders appointed from the IIS ITREB LIF and or the Chairs of the national or international Arbitration Boards.
6 Is the request of Nagib and Alnaz for a meeting with the Imam therefore unreasonable ?

Watch this space for PART 2 – 22nd Feb 2010 to 15 April 2010 (The LIF Announcement)
& Why did Imam who knows, and also knows best allowed the lawsuit to proceed ?

* United Kingdom

Aga Khan approved
On June 10th, 2010 Chai (not verified) says:

"Shafik decides that distribution of this book must stop" You're in absolute denial. The Aga Khan in his notarized document, and reply to the defense, confirmed that he authorized a message to stop distribution of the books.

Re: Bloglaw's "What did and should have happened"
On June 9th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
The above is difficult to follow and digest, Bloglaw, and, alas, only the people concerned (i.e. LIF, Sachedina and the defendants) can confirm or not the statements therein, and answer your questions! Your # 4 point above is most interesting... Personally, I doubt very much they (the leaders) ever consulted with Hazer Imam.

One thing I am sure about is that no leader is going to read what you, I and other mureed, are posting here!
I am looking forward to Part 2, Bloglaw!

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

did they consult Imam
On June 9th, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

The question is did they consult Imam, and if they did, did they give ALL the facts, and if they did, then then did they follow the guidance. Watch the space for part 2. I disagree with you that most leaders in question and more and more other leaders in question are reading all the posts. They should of course.

* United Kingdom

GREAT SPECULATION
On June 9th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

nice time line ...but s9o and so would have , could have , should have are at best speculation and at worse slander not based on facts .
Its not about who said,did, didnt do what ...
Either the letters were a forgery or not ...based only on an expert opinion.
TODAY : Do defendents agree they breached copyright? didnt have explicit or implicit permission of Imam to publish and distribute?
Are defendants gonna keep their word in their own Stmts of defence?
IF NOT ITS plain simpe defiance ...allah guide all.

* Canada

It is about who did and said what !
On June 9th, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

Zak : It is ALL about who did and said. Leaders should thank us all for the critique and good valuable feedback. This is what the Imam wishes and is a part of the governance of our institutional rules and regulations

* United Kingdom

End of this situation
On June 8th, 2010 Nargis Kinnare (not verified) says:

The quicker end of this situation will be so much more then a welcome. And only YaAli Bapa can do it. Very eagerly waiting for the conclusion of this mess. Mawla should take some action. Sooner then later. Thats my humble prayer.

* United States

This was an achievement!
On June 7th, 2010 7up (not verified) says:

I am not sure if the copyright issue will be proven or not in court or even if defendants will end up proving that the lawsuit was initiated as a personal vendeta from a Murid to another Murid or how many forgeries have been made but I know it has achieved already 2 things:

a) It has proven that the majority of Khojas would blindly believe lawyers and news items regardless of the fact that what they are saying is against what Imam had said, regardless of the fact that what these people say in public is detrimental to the community and to the concept of Imam. [Such as saying Farmans are only opinions] So much so for the intellectual tradition.

b) Whatever goes to court or got said in public by lawyers gets blindly accepted as truth...

There are few interesting articles on this issue, it is not restricted to how Khojas think, but other communities are going through the same... read this:
Appellate Court Rules Media Can Legally Lie.
By Mike Gaddy. Published Feb. 28, 2003

And this one, even more interesting:

Lawyers who lie:
Lying Lawyers Draw Inconsistent Punishment
The legal profession has a mixed record, at best, for dealing with lawyers who lie in official proceedings.

So, its a jungle out there, there is so much smoke, how many will be able to distinguish the truth?

Re: 7up's comment
On June 7th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Yes, 7up, it certainly is the jungle out there! And I am afraid very few will be able to distinguish the truth, alas! Despite the fact most Khojas have received a worldly education, we don't seem to have much objectivity and a critical mind... And we have even less knowledge of our faith. I might add that this suit business has certainly demonstrated the latter.

I suppose it would be too naive to hope that Itreb might realize this deficit of information about the faith and that they might attempt to remedy to it?

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

who is the head !
On June 8th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

kanize - This requires implementation of guidance and farmans from top down. The head of ITREB reports to the Head of DJI, Dr Shafik Sachedina, who is also the Governor and effective head of Institute of Ismaili Studies and he is also the head of LIF and he has unlimited acces to the Imam and he in reality decides who has access to the Imam and he also decides on those who are finally recommended for appointment by the Imam and he controls with others and he also decides on the final changes and editing of the regular reports submitted to the Imam.

Therefore it follows that, if Dr Shafik Sachedina decides then ITREB can attempt to remedy the sharing of knowledge and implementation of farmans.

Let us hope that there are some real changes as a result of the lawsuit, provided also all the silent majority in their own way, give feedback and make their views known to their leaders, locally, nationally and Internationally.

The Imam know best & when to intervene.

.

* United Kingdom

Trial and Tribulation
On June 7th, 2010 kasamali (not verified) says:

We can not even imagine the agony, distress and tension through which Nagib and Al Naz have been going through each day, each hour, and each moment since last 4 to 5 months. Without doubt, they are very faithful and ardent Murids of Hazar Imam, and yet, they can not be so sure of the outcome of this event. Apart from condemnation they received from LIF at all the Jamatkhanas, all kinds of thoughts must be going through their minds. This is nothing but their Kasoti (કસોટી, પરખ).
Once my elder told me,” the more spiritual progress one makes, the more Kasoti one has to go through”, and this exactly, what I feel, the two are going through. We all must pray for their coming out successfully in this Kasoti .
“તમે દુઆ માંગો કે ખુદા પરખ ન નાખે , તેનો સબબ એ છે કે , જે કોઈ ઈમાનવાળો હોય તે પણ, પરખથી ફરી જાય.” ( ફરમાન, હ. સુલતાન મોહમ્મદ શાહ, મંજેવડી 31- 12- 1893) આપણે પણ આવી જ દુઆ માંગીએ.
Next, one should not necessarily expect logical solution from Hazar Imam. He being supreme God, is above just or unjust, above truth or falsehood. We can not, with our limited intelligence, fully understand purpose/ purposes behind any of the decisions of Imam of the Time. For example, we all know how almost all the historians criticized most of the decisions our 16 th Imam Hakim Bi Amrillah, for they did not know his real identity.

* Pakistan

Re: Kasamali's "Trial and Tribulation"
On June 7th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, brother! Nagib and Al Naz must be going through terrible times. Ameen to your prayers!

* Canada

Peace
On June 7th, 2010 Salaam (not verified) says:

A true momin will always follow the firmans of Hazar Imam.
Ismailis are spiritual brother and spiritual sisters. Why such a hatred amongst us.
Editor of Vancouverette, not need for to give any comments, you are a reporter and
do your job as a reporter. Thank You.

* Canada

Please stop this lawsuit, I
On June 6th, 2010 Anand Anand (not verified) says:

Please stop this lawsuit, I know that you had the best of intentions.Your book was really a wonderful momento to may of us, and it has brought much wisdom and happiness to have it in our homes and hearts. Leaders have behaved out of turn Imam is well aware of this. Regardless of everything, Respect his wishes, and do as he says he knows best, continue with all your duties( foremost being respecting his wishes no matter what) and leave the rest of the matter with him. Be happy and continue to serve and let him give whichever opportunity in whichever he wishes.
No need to doubt him, even though situation is perhaps difficult. Don't forget he is always with us regardless- and his leaders also will have to answer if they have done anything wrong.

* United Kingdom

Anand Anand's comment: 'Please stop this lawsuit, I"
On June 6th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Can the defendants stop the lawsuit ??!! Isn't it the plaintiffs that can withdraw the lawsuit ????
And, Anand Anand, remember, for the Imam of the Time to sue a mureed, He has to excommunicate him: the Imams never can break the bayyat They have accepted from a mureed!! Do you understand the implications of this ? If you don't, then let me explain one of the implication of this, which is simply that it is not the Imam of the Time that is suing, or has initiated the suit.

We need to remember that at the time of the bayyat (which is an Arabic term that implies a bargain that is agreed upon by two parties, and in which both parties give something and take something) the parents of a child pledge, on behalf of that child, his "tan, man, dhan" to the Imam of the Time (which means that his body, mind/heart and material possessions will be used in the service of the Imam and in a way that He wishes it, in other words total farmanbardari), and the Imam, on accepting this pledge promises to lead that mureed to salvation. And when the child becomes an adult, he is to renew this bayyat "consciously", either in his heart or in the presence of the Imam of the Time (provided he desires to continue to be a mureed).

If the jamat were a bit more educated and informed regarding the tenets of the religion, this forum would hardly have any of the comments we seem to be reading: we would all know that it is simply not possible that the Imam break the bayyat. Enemies who have taken the lives of past Imams have been pardoned without even having to beg for forgiveness, and we are being made to believe that the Imam of the Time is suing a mureed who worships Him simply because that mureed has published His farman?? This is truly mass-misleading!!! And the only reason for the mureed to publish the book by himself is that the very leadership that had been instructed by Hazer Imamto insure that the preceding books be published through IIS were refusing to do so!!!

And some of us say in this forum that it is in order to make a profit that the defendants have published those books. Any one who has seen the book knows very well that just the printing of it must have cost way more than $50; then what to say of the handling and shipping!!!

This whole matter, i.e. that people are being made to believe that it is the Imam that is suing, is really distressing to those who know a little bit about the tenets of the faith.

And for those who are troubled when they read or are told that the Imam is not "dunyaa baanè" aware of this suit that He is supposed to have filed, they are probably troubled because they are not aware of the tenets of the faith and the importance of the only two obligations of a mureed, i.e. saying dua 3 times a day (the first one right after waking up if it is not said in Jamat Khana, rather than in the shower or when driving to work or to university, and the second one right at the time that it is said in their own city, rather than when it is "convenient" to say it) and submitting the dasond). Perhaps this crisis will be an opportunity for them to desire to know more about the faith.

This situation clearly shows that we need to educate the jamat (young and not so young) in the spiritual aspect of the religion in addition to the knowledge that is dispensed in the Bayt ul-Ilm classes. But who will educate the jamat?? The leadership itself is, 80% of the time, not informed about the faith. And when a person cannot explain a particular rite, that person will prefer not to speak about it and worse, slip it under the carpet, and self pride seldom allows us enough humility to admit to our lack of information. And of course, there is no question of seeking knowledge from those who have it. Self pride again. So, alas, we are in for more trouble because of continued lack of awareness! Ah la la!!! Mowla, tun dayaa kar, anè karto rè ! Ameen !!

If I have offended you in any way, Anand Anand, or any reader, please forgive me: my intention is not to offend. Those who have some haqiqati samaj, may Mowla Bapa allow it to remain safe and grow; those who need it, may Mowla Bapa grant it to them. Ameen.

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

We need understanding
On June 6th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Ameen and thank you.

* United Kingdom

The only people capable of
On June 6th, 2010 Kericho (not verified) says:

The only people capable of stopping this lawsuits are lawyers but they can make a lot of money by letting this case drag in court for a long time so why would they withdraw? Especially if people behind this lawsuit have access to money from Imam, they will use it as much as possible.

Defendants are not malicious and Imam is not blinded !
On June 6th, 2010 Manchester (not verified) says:

A Post in Vancoveritte Bloglaw 6 Jun 2010

Editor: You have concluded the defendants are malicious in their claims? , You add Disciplinary hearings should proceed and there is no need to consider copyright issue in disciplinary hearings ? My My are you now being judge Jury and the executioner !

If as you say disciplinary hearings will be more terrifying for the defendants then that was a process which should have been followed but was not ? Why do you think it was not ? Also our constitution says the law of the country takes precedence. Our conciliation and arbitration service is and will be used because it is fair and impartial and would/should not conduct parallel proceeding until the outcome of the court hearing. Especially not limited hearings as you are promoting.

The defendants are saying leaders in question (not all) are to blame or have made a big mistake in their case. They believe Imam gave guidance in this case but that guidance is not being followed in their case. There is more it seems. We need to respect their belief & views which is with reason. We must seek to understand them too.

The LIF announcement says the defendants were approached before the publication. It seems Alnaz was not contacted before or after the publication, nor letters and notices were sent to him. Why not ? and finally I feel you as editor personally should not be blinkered and one sided. You say that Imam defendants are saying Imam is blinded and misled…. This is your conclusion which is totally wrong. Please read all the many related comments again and also my post on divinity and infallibility about the Imam. .

* United Kingdom

Is a settlement being pursued proactively ?
On June 5th, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

I am hoping & praying that the defendants, leaders, lawyers and others are all proactively working hard and selflessly in settling this case by dialogue (and avoiding any coersion, or threats of excommunication etc)

From the documents in court some leaders have made some mistakes in not following instructions and guidance confirmed by the Imam in court. For example availability of Farmans.The defendants are saying that the leaders in question are neither giving to the Imam all the correct and complete information, nor, communicating to the defendants all the correct and complete instructions, guidance & wishes of the Imam.

Hence the defendants requested an audiance with the Imam so that there is no doubt in their mind about the instructions guidance and wishes of the Imam.

Everyone is wondering and concerned to know that setlement discussions and dialogie is currently in progress.?

* United Kingdom

so will defendants do what
On June 5th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

so will defendants do what was in their statements of Defense and stop immediately ??
and if not ...why not?

* Canada

They said they will as soon
On June 5th, 2010 Kericho (not verified) says:

They said they will as soon as the Imam tells them.

Will defendants be expelled
On June 4th, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

MY response to comments of the Editor in Vancoveritte blog

By Bloglaw 5 Jun 2010
Editor Vancoveritte - You say that there is not much apetite at the highest levels (the leader/s in question ? ) for fun and games and you add " you may want to look into bids by individuals to begin disciplinary action that could result in excommunication. What fun and games are you referring to ? Which leaders are you referring to ?

Your invitation that people should look into filing disciplinary complaints against the defendants is incitement and frankly, shocking because

firstly you are a reporter and journalist should know better than to openly give a totally one sided unsubstantiated report & damaging suggestions yourself on behalf of those at the "highest levels"!

Secondly all defendants are presumed innocent in law untill proven guilty.

Thirdly this is a lawsuit according to the law of the country which takes precedence over the Ismaili constitution and

Fourthly the matter of any other parallel proceedings will be subjudice pending the present court proceedings

Fifthly & Finally if your incitement is followed up and complaints were to be processed by your friends at the "highest levels" then this will also impact negatively (as the lawsuit is) on our community and institutional credibility regarding our excellent & fair conciliation and arbitration Boards, services and processes.

My My Mr Editor What will you think up next !

* United Kingdom

Thoughts on the lawsuits
On June 4th, 2010 troubled murid (not verified) says:

I have worked for the AKDN institutions for a few years. I know and have been told by others( non Ismailis) that MHI has a tremendous capacity to assimilate facts and to store and retrieve information. MHI has numerous sources and avenues of information, and He would not take such an action with far reaching consequences, as discrediting a murid and filing a lawsuit , in the civil courts, against one of His own spiritual children, without first having access to all the facts. It is unfortunate that we blame the leadership for misinforming MHI.

An interesting point raised by both defendants, in that MHI has created the Arbitration Board for resolving such issues, not only within the Ismaili Community, but to have the service available to other communities as well. Would it not have been prudent to attempt resolving the dispute by the Arbitration board first?

The people purchasing the books are Ismailis. They continued purchasing, and perhaps more so, after the first time the instructions not to do so were read in the Jamat Khanas. Who would not want to have such a bound volume for $50, specially during the Golden Jubilee year, when all the other merchandise such as tasbis, shawls, pictures were selling off the shelf, and for a profit. Are the people who kept purchasing these volumes, any more farman bardharis than the two ( or four) defendants?

Aside from all the turmoil this lawsuit has created in our lives, there are two issues which I am currently struggling with; the divinity of the Imam and the distinction/differentiation between the Imam and the essence of Ismailism as a set of beliefs. If MHI is not Allah, then He is fallible. If fallible then He is human. The Ismaili beliefs, traditions and histories are larger than any one human being.
Ya Ali Madad

* Canada

Divinity and Falibility
On June 5th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Troubled Murid: My attempt to try to explainas simply as is possible. I hope this is of help. I suggest you also try and talk to your Tariquah Board, and an Al Waez or attend workshops on this if possible

First of all let us understand precisely what fallible means in your context. I am assuming you mean the last one more but all of them.

1. capable of erring: a fallible guide; a fallible source of information.
2. capable of failing; certain: a fallible antidote; a fallible rule.
3. capable of error in expounding doctrine on faith or morals.

Second. No human being in the physical & material sense (or indeed any sense) can be Allah. We all recite and believe in the Shahada. There is no God but God and Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) is his messenger. During the Life of Prophet Mohammed, he made many decisions and many if not most did not believe him and fought against him. That did not make Allah or Allah's messages and guidance any less fallable. So if someone does not believe them ordoes not understand them does not make them fallible.

Third. Imam as he has declared in the constitution “(A) The Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims affirm the Shahadah 'La- ilaha illallih, Muhammadur Rasulu-llah'. the Tawhid therein and that the Holy Prophet Muhammad (Salla-llahu alayhi wa-sallam) is the last and final Prophet of Allah. Islam, as revealed in the Holy Quran, is the final message of Allah to mankind, and is universal and eternal. The Holy Prophet (S.A.S.) through the divine revelation from Allah prescribed rules governing spiritual and temporal matters.
(B) In accordance with Shia doctrine, tradition, and interpretation of history, the Holy Prophet (S.A.S.) designated and appointed his cousin and son-in-law Hazrat Mawlana Ali Amiru-l-Mu'minin (Alayhi-s-salam), to be the first Imam to continue the Ta'wil and Ta'lim of Allah's final message and to guide the murids, and proclaimed that the Imamat should continue by heredity through Hazrat Mawlana Ali (A.S.) and his daughter Hazrat Bibi Fatimat-az-Zahra, Khatun-i-Jannat Alayha-s-salam).

Fourth Islam (and Ismailism) are a way of life incorporating the material and the spiritual with no separation or conflict between intellect and faith. You may recall Imam’s Farmans in Canadaand in some interviews Imam has given on this very subject

Therefore and In other words, the challenge for those who aspire to deeply understand and live and have their being in their faith, is to perceive the deepest aspects of their faith with the most elevated part of their intellect.

The opposite of this is to focus on the most superficial aspects of the religion with the most rudimentary part of the intellect which translates into a fixation on the outward forms of the religion by the rational faculty alone, aided by passionate, if not inflamed, sentiment.

On the other hand, there is a solidarity between the inward (batin) aspect of religion and the innermost aspect of the intellect, that is, spiritual intuition which is capable of grasping ultimate realities, and fashioning this world in accordance with those realities, in the clear and indubitable knowledge that no outward social ‘reform’ will succeed without the spiritual and moral ‘reform’ of individual souls, beginning with one’s own.

Truly God changeth not the condition of a people
until they change the condition of their own souls.
(The Qur’an, 13:11)

3 Authoritative Interpretations
YUSUFALI: For each (such person) there are (angels) in succession, before and behind him: They guard him by command of Allah. Allah does not change a people's lot unless they change what is in their hearts. But when (once) Allah willeth a people's punishment, there can be no turning it back, nor will they find, besides Him, any to protect.
PICKTHAL: For him are angels ranged before him and behind him, who guard him by Allah's command. Lo! Allah changeth not the condition of a folk until they (first) change that which is in their hearts; and if Allah willeth misfortune for a folk there is none that can repel it, nor have they a defender beside Him.
SHAKIR: For his sake there are angels following one another, before him and behind him, who guard him by Allah's commandment; surely Allah does not change the condition of a people until they change their own condition; and when Allah intends evil to a people, there is no averting it, and besides Him they have no protector.

* United Kingdom

Re: Troubled murid (Thoughts on the lawsuits)
On June 5th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

Hello, Troubled murid. Indeed, it is quite clear that you are troubled. Insh'Allah, you will be lead to find your answers once your questions are worded in the proper way. In the meantime, do hang in there!! "Aash kijè allakhni, avar aash niraasha." I am sure that if you do, you will come across someone or something that will show you the answers. All the best to you!

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Help is always there
On June 5th, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

Kanize : I also pray that Troubles murid does, Ameen

* United Kingdom

Accessibility to farman
On June 3rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Having the farman in one or more than one book is, in my opinion, a practical thing: those who wish to read them, internalize them, apply them, can, if they obtain the book(s), access the farman whenever they are able to at home. Those who do not wish to obtain them don't need to buy the book(s). Why deprive those who are eager to access the farman???

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Accessibility to Farmans
On June 7th, 2010 Salaam (not verified) says:

I totally agree with you, why deprive others !!!

* Canada

Farman Book & Access
On June 4th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Imam has said access to read and study in all JK's is available. So The farmans should be available in all JK's, and presumably they are in a file (and maybe by now in electronic format for Access institutionally). If this is done then the leaders will have followed Imam's instructions and guidance.

The Leaders have said openly and it is true that a volume or two of farmans and speeches are in the process of being published. Therefore these will be available to be purchased and I am sure will also be in the libraries of ITREB & RE/Bayt ul Ilm and IIS for those who cant afford or wish to read or study them there. Imam's guidance and wish is not to deprive anyone from accessing farmans including those in remote locations.

It seems so far that the farmans in the book published are authentic and It seems they also offered 2000 (or more?) copies free of cost to the Institution to distribute.

I wonder if the leaders had a dialogue with the defendants and IIS together to explore and agree any changes and then publish a second edition under the institutional umbrella of IIS.

* United Kingdom

Did Imam receive misleading information
On June 3rd, 2010 london (not verified) says:

More interesting comments and responses

Murad : Does anyone know if Alnaz or Nagib have retained a lawyer? I havent heard anything about it? And I am wondering if they have not retained one, who is doing all of Nagibs defense? Alnaz is a lawyer and maybe he is so far doing all the paperwork himself . But does anyone know if Nagib is cabable of representing himself and is he cabable of handling all the paperwork himself? Or is Alnaz guiding Nagib in his defense? I wonder if they are communicating seperately with the Plaintiffs lawyer? Any one got any answers? I read in some earlier comments that one of the commentators had a email contact with one of the defendants?

Reply bloglaw Posted on June 3, 2010 at 8:46 AM

I am not sure why the the defendants would need to spend more money & time on lawyers. All they want is for the Imam to directly give them instructions and guidance and for them to give direct to the Imam some information and evidence because inter alia the Imam has received and may have acted on misleading information

For example Imam has said in the latest replies in court that all Farmans are available in all JK’s for all ismailis to access and read including in remote locations.

Imam will have only said so in the replies because Leaders in question will have informed the Imam that all Farmans have been (and continue today) to be available all JK’s and can be accessed by the jamat.This is not correct

If this is not true then the Imam was not given the correct or complete information. The defendants have said that the imam has acted on misleading information and also that the leader/s in question are not following the instruction and wishes of the Imam. Therefore it follows that If Imam had received the all the correct and complete information and the leaders were following his instructions, then the lawsuit would not have been filed..

* United Kingdom

Bloglaw, You seem to be
On June 5th, 2010 Ali (not verified) says:

Bloglaw,

You seem to be suggesting that our Imam is acting on misleading information from the leaders.. I think an understanding of who our Imam is would help dismiss such a claim of yours. I am not suggesting that the defendents may not have been wronged by the leadership, I don't know the whole situation enough to speak on that, but to suggest that the Imam takes actions (in this case pretty significant actions) based on misleading information brings into question your belief about who our Imam truly is.

* Canada

Imam is .... !
On June 5th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Ali: Thank you. I note you have not studied all the available information and comments. I invite you read my comments above on "Divinity and infallibiliy" (and earlier comments).

Imam doen not need information or guidance from us in the same sense and way as we do from him. We have been blessed with choices and it is for us use our material and spiritual intellects in exercising those choices. We have also been blessed with the best of the best guidance in and from our Imam to enable us to make the right and informed choices. If followed selflessly by Leaders and murids alike, they are in our best interest.

We are also encouraged by our Imam to use our intellect, have dialogue, be fair and tolerant(plural). Imam gives guidance to the community through leaders and at times directly to the Jamat present. Imam has now establised the institutional framework and terms, by which guidance is disseminated and implemented. This is entrusted to and is the responsibility of the Leaders.

In this case Imam gave and gives instructions and guidance for leaders to implement based on information provided by the Leaders. If this information was incorrect, incomplete or misleading then this should be corrected and fresh guidance requested. We can all make mistakes in the choices we make. Imam knows best and maybe it is his wish for a debate, and reflection by Leaders, murids and defendants. Maybe there are other reasons which we do not understand now but will in time. Whatever they are, there is much more wisdom in them than the sum total of all the wisdom of leaders and murids..

There can be no doubt about who our Imam truly is and I believe Imam will settle this lawsuit when he wishes to do so. Imam knows best. Ali I hope you agree.

* United Kingdom

Access does not equate to everyone receivig a copy
On June 3rd, 2010 Chai (not verified) says:

Bloglaw, having access does not necessarily mean that every one must receive a copy to keep.

* Canada

Access to read and study all farmans
On June 3rd, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

Agreed access (to read and study in JK)does not mean giving copies.
The point is if access to all farman is available and given in all JK's in accordance with the Instructions and guidance given by imam.

* United Kingdom

Are farmans relevant !
On June 3rd, 2010 London (not verified) says:

Comment and reply in another blog:

zak
Posted on June 2, 2010 at 6:43 PM

availability of Farmans is not the legal issue ,.Imam did not give permission explicitly to publish and distribute copyright material .He wants it to stop. It has to STOP . NOW .

Reply
bloglaw
Posted on June 3, 2010 at 1:40 AM

If availabilityof farmans to the jamat is not an issue legally then why did the Imam NOT say so in the replies specifically.The replies could have said that Farmans are legally not relevant (as has been said in other issues in the replies).

If you sincerely reflect on this there is significant wisdom & guidance in why Imam did not say so in the replies. And you have missed the point of the moral issues too.

The point is why are the leaders are not following specific instructions from the Imam. Therefore what other guidance and instructions are also not being followed by them. I am sure and hope internally there is an independant & objective review and self critique in progress or will be soon.

* United Kingdom

Are Leaders following instructions !
On June 2nd, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

Imam has said in the replies in court, that all Ismailies have access to all farmans in all Jamat Khanas iincluding in remote locations

Are copies of all farmans available in all Jamat Khanna’s today ? and can they be accessed by any members of the jamat. Have they ever been?

If not, then the Leader/s in question are not following the specific instructions and guidance given by the Imam. Therefore the defendants are right to request a meeting with the Imam to get instructions and guidance from the Imam. They are right to be concerned that any general or specific. instructions or guidance to them coming from the leaders in question will not be followed.

* United Kingdom

Yes they are
On June 3rd, 2010 Chai (not verified) says:

Farmans are available, and can be accessed by any members.

* Canada

Re: Chai's comment "yes, they are" (they = farman)
On June 3rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
In this part of the country (a major city!), the old and most recent farman are not available in Jamat Khana: any member of the Jamat who wishes to read the most recent ones needs to make an appointment at the Itreb office and needs to go there (in my case it would be a 35 minute drive (totally 70 minutes) outside rush hour :-) during office hours in order to read them. The old farman are not available....
You are lucky to have access to them in your Jamat Khana...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Farmans are not available
On June 4th, 2010 london (not verified) says:

Kanize - you are right. Chai have you asked and gets specific farmans or for any period, etc./country or by catagories for example bayat ul Khayal. majalis's, unity. In most Jamat Khanas only a limited number of farmans are available and access is not straight forward. Chai you are indeed very lucky.

* United Kingdom

It might not be a convenient
On June 4th, 2010 Chai (not verified) says:

It might not be a convenient process to access them, but they certainly are accessible. People sometimes spend just as much time searching for books/articles the library, or spending as much time going to the movies, or for coffee or to the gym. These collections of firmans are precious, and having to spend a bit of time to access shouldn't be a problem...especially if it is that meaningful to you.

* Canada

are firmans available
On June 3rd, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

if they are readily available then why theneed for this book.??
In anycase , Imam does NOT wish His Farmans to be published and distributed .
So that has to stop unconditionally NOW...

* Canada

Imams wish is to publish
On June 4th, 2010 London (not verified) says:

Imams wish is to publish since these are going to be published & distributed by IIS soon.

* United Kingdom

Thanks to this Case - access to farmans will be available
On June 4th, 2010 Manchester (not verified) says:

Access to all Farmans will now be available very soon in all Jamat Khanas and Tariquah offices for everyone at convenient times. Thanks to the defendants and this case. If not for it this would not be the case.

* United Kingdom

EXCELLENT GESTURE and Procès juridique
On May 29th, 2010 ANONYMOUS (not verified) says:

I am fully supportive of the decision to close comments for a few days.
Procès juridique, Sir are you able to post English translation? Thank you.

* Canada

Closing discussion/forum
On June 2nd, 2010 London (not verified) says:

I agree with the sentiments and gesture. Thank you

* United Kingdom

Comments temporarily closed
On May 27th, 2010 heritage says:

In view of the extraordinary historical visit of H.H. the Aga Khan to Toronto for the Groundbreaking ceremony of the Wynford Park complex including the Ismaili Center and Aga Khan Museum, this topic is currently closed, so that our users can focus on the Main Imamat Event. This topic will reopen after the Imam departs from Canada.

Follow Wynford Park Groundbreaking Event News Here

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

* Canada

Comment reopened on June 2nd
On June 2nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Comment reopened on June 2nd at 18:20 EST

Comments reopened-librarian-umed
On June 2nd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you ever so much for reopening the comments! (I can see that Rabya was utterly distressed by your decision of closing the section, and I must admit I was getting distressed myself at not seeing it reopen despite Mowla Bapa's departure...) I trust Heritage is still committed to keep us (i.e. the rest of the world :-) informed about all and any new development in this law suit !
Ya Aly madad!

* Canada

Comments temporarily closed
On June 2nd, 2010 NN (not verified) says:

I respect and honor your decision to cease comments while HI was in Canada, but now we are already in June the 2nd.
If by any chance the parties involved have reached to an amicable peace, that is fine and welcoming news, and need to be posted.

You have left the whole blog world in ambiguity!

* United States

zak
On June 3rd, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

regardless of leaders , witch hunts, alleged forged signatures, profits from sale, personel religious beliefs etc etc ...isn't it time to end the Legal Saga

I hope and PRAY that's the case soon . Inshallah .

* Canada

Re: comment of NN of June 2nd
On June 2nd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Absolutely true ! You have put it very well !! I totally support your request! Thank you!

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Comments temporarily closed
On May 27th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

It's wrong to do this, you should leave it open because the case is serious and Sachedina is far from dropping or to discuss, he just wants to kill those 2 murids. I hope that the defendants will get a mulakat. Please Khudavind, listen to us, this is the prayer or most of your murids worldwide,(those who don't want a title, those who don't do chamcha giri to have a seat in the council), give them a mulakat to clear everything. It's gone too far now, it's only you who can solve this. We believe in you.Please mowla listen to our prayers.

* Canada

mowla knows everything
On May 31st, 2010 adnan muhammad (not verified) says:

just because sachedina is handling this does not mean mowla is not aware of this! sachedina acts as mowla commands! so remember...

* United States

Procès juridique
On May 27th, 2010 Nato (not verified) says:

Le débat éthique est nécessaire ! Le procès est affligeant et très mal vécu !
( Mohez Nato- Paris)
Habitué à consulter les différents sites web et très attaché à l’existence de ces différents organes de diffusion des informations via le net sur notre communauté ismailie, j’ai appris avec beaucoup de tristesse et de désarroi les poursuites judiciaires qui frappent Nagib Tazdine et Alnaj Jiva.
Permettez d’abord que je vous fasse part de mon intime conviction : Mowlana Hazar Imam ne peut pas avoir précipité le différend avec les deux auteurs du livre sur la place publique sans avoir cherché à le résoudre par les différents canaux Jamati et Institutionnels ! Mowlana Hazar Imam ne peut pas avoir voulu, souhaité ce procès contre Ses deux enfants spirituels !
Par ailleurs, en mon âme et conscience, je le dis très sincèrement que j’ai beaucoup d’estime, d’admiration pour Nagib et Alnaj pour leur contribution , leurs sacrifices, leur engagement professionnel et avec convictions pour la diffusion des Farmans et différents textes de Mowlana Hazar Imam.
Bien avant 1992, j’ai le souvenir d’avoir lu, relu ces textes et Farmans sur des documents avec les simples couvertures blues et surtout les Farmans de Baitoul Khyal ! Ces documents et les livres publiés en 1992 sont toujours gardés précieusement chez moi et souvent je les consulte !
Notre Tariqah est une foi ésotérique ou Bhatinie. C’est une quête spirituelle personnelle, une foi de conviction, qui allie le cœur, l’engagement par le Bhayat à l’Autorité Spirituelle de L’imam et l’intellect. Et nos sources d’inspiration et de réflexions sont les Directives, les Farmans, les Hadiths et les écrits de l’Imam du temps présent ! Ce sont avec Ses écrits et mûre réflexion de notre part, que nous nous engageons, dans nos comportements de tous les jours, dans nos engagements vis-à-vis de la société laïque, dans notre Jamat et comme le souhaite même Mowlana Hazar Imam, dans la société civile comme de bons ambassadeurs de l’Islam. Aussi, pouvoir disposer rapidement et facilement ces documents, surtout à l’aire de nouvelles technologies de diffusion des connaissances via le net est un atout majeur !
Aussi je lance un appel solennel : arrêtons ce jeu de massacres, arrêtons de nous invectiver et s’entre-déchirer via nos échanges par le web ! Nous sommes et nous resterons toujours des frères et sœurs !
Cet étalage sur la place publique de nos malentendus n’a pas lieu d’être ! C’est un profond désarroi, une immense tristesse pour la grande majorité silencieuse ismailie à travers le monde.
Ce procès, une forme inédite, incompréhensible où le Leadership et les deux éditeurs ont fait l’impasse sur l’intelligence du cœur ! Le Leadership doit revoir sérieusement sa copie, sa façon de communiquer avec le Jamat et appliquer rigoureusement les préceptes de Mowlana Hazar Imam sur la méritocratie, la tolérance, le pluralisme, la diversité, le pardon et la générosité ! En plus du courage, des sacrifices et à l’esprit fraternel, de partage des deux éditeurs, il faut souligner leur intime conviction de servir Mowlana Hazar Imam et Son Jamat.
Le sens du baroud , d’exercer cette autorité coupée de la réalité, cette façon de vouloir imposer, passer en force du Leadership ne peut être que mal vécue ! Il est temps de se ressaisir, d’évoluer et cette évolution correspond aux complexités de notre époque, à l’exigence de la transparence. Le Leadership doit s’adapter à cette réalité, répondre aux attentes des millions d’ismailis qui veulent savoir, disposer des Directives, comprendre, ressentir , suivre et servir selon ces Directives de leur Imam du temps présent ! Il ne faut pas avoir peur de cette vitesse fulgurante de la diffusion de toutes les informations et écrits via le fantastique outil du web ! Le Leadership doit être à la hauteur de toutes les exigences du Jamat et s’est ainsi que ce Leadership, dont personne ne conteste l’utilité, sera honoré, respecté, et fera la fierté de l’ensemble du Jamat, en particulier des jeunes générations !
Un autre son de cloche est nécessaire, doit être accepté et il ne doit pas être considéré systématiquement comme un contre pouvoir ou une contestation de l’Autorité Spirituelle de notre Vénéré Hazar Imam ! Le Leadership n’a pas le monopole des convictions religieuses ! Il est bon de temps en temps, comme l’a fait avec humour Mowlana Hazar Imam au Darbar de Londres, de rappeler au Leadership d’être plus proche du Jamat, de mieux communiquer, d’accepter la diversité et le pluralisme des opinions, des points de vue et que ce Leadership s’arme de cette forme d’intuition via la méditation pourquoi pas , du sens de l’Intérêt Supérieur de notre Jamat ! Cette ascendance et cette propension du Leadership à être de plus en plus autocratique, clanique, dès fois autiste, avec leurs agissements bureaucratiques est une mauvaise dérive ! Et que tous, comme des frères et sœurs, qu’aucune montagne, ni océan, ni désert ne peuvent séparer de leur Imam, vivons notre foi ésotérique, et gardons puissante et flamboyante l’Essence Bhatinie !
Ces actions juridiques, ce déballage de nos linges sales sur la place publique, pour un problème mineur à mon sens est un état de souffrance permanente pour beaucoup d’ismailis ! Nous prions très sincèrement pour que très rapidement les deux parties trouvent un terrain d’attente à l’intérieur de nos canaux Institutionnels. Ces querelles juridiques n’honorent pas notre Communauté !
Il faut laisser Mowlana Hazar Imam, en dehors de ces querelles ! Il faut Lui laisser les mains libres….. Et qu’Il agisse comme Il le souhaite.
Les deux éditeurs doivent accepter d’arrêter, d’interrompre la diffusion du livre et que le Leadership, le LIF accepte de donner leur démission en bloc à Mowlana Hazar Imam !
C’est une dure épreuve pour tout le Jamat, qui ne souhaite pas du tout un développement de cette affaire. N’oublions pas que le triomphe des démagogies, les excès de langage, véhiculés par les uns et les autres sont passagers, mais les ruines, les dégâts et les conséquences peuvent être fatal ! Restons unis, tolérants et toujours au service de Notre Vénéré Imam !
Ya Ali Madat

* France

Procès juridique
On June 2nd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ça fait plaisir de voir que le français est encore parlé et utilisé dans le Jamat !

En réponse à votre conclusion (à savoir l'interruption de la diffiusion du livre et la démission, je suppose que vous voulez dire des responsables qui ont engagé la poursuite ? car le LIF c'est tous les présidents de tous les Councils du monde...et ce n'est pas tous ces présidents-là qui ont engagé la poursuite et ils ne se doutaient peut-être pas de la possibilité d'une fausse signature lorsque ils ont été mis au courant de la poursuite...), la distribution est déjà interrompue, et ce serait fort dommage que ceux qui voudraient parcourir certains des farman qui y figurent ne puissent le faire : les premiers en date ne sont jamais entendus au Jamat Khana, du moins au Canada, et ils touchent à des sujets qui ne sont plus guère abordés de nos jours bien qu'ils soient encore tout à fait actuels...

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

another case in history
On May 25th, 2010 the seeker of peace (not verified) says:

Although this website has been useful base of information and knowledge, the forum section , sadly has done more harm then been fruitful. Comments slandering both leaders, the Aga Khan and the defendants does not mean that any of them get brownie points. At the end of the day, its simply a case between the three people. so let the judge decide. Which ever way you look at it, all three are likely hurting within. Lets respect the candidates involved in a diplomatic matter. Anger is a form of expression, but wisdom allows us to think. Let us all take a moment and put ourselves in all three shoes.....its not comfortable to be in. When you point a finger, remember the other three fingers point to you within......think before u write. be cautious.....it just may come back to haunt you!! The writer's ink is the most powerful tool for making and breaking an individual.

* United Kingdom

Another case in history
On May 26th, 2010 Salaam (not verified) says:

This site has been the most helpful site in my life. At the moment I am listening to Ginans
which this site allows, especially when Hazar Imam is coming to Canada.

I personally feel Salim Jiwa's site should be closed for comments now.

* Canada

another case in history
On May 26th, 2010 NN (not verified) says:

You made an excellent point in recognizing this website, albeit lightly. For as long as the website has existed, I think it is the most comprehensive, informative site created for the benefit of the community by an individual "sans" the help of the institutions. It took the leaders and the "establishment" umpteen years to come up with a so called "ISMAILI" website, which is virtually stagnant and not current. I think the community at large has overlooked the greatness of the owner/s to come up with this site. No one is angry or venting their anger through this site. Yet I firmly believe in the old dictum that: "Truth will always prevail". By accident, the whole ordeal has landed on this forum, it is not that a large number of the community is/was not aware of the cronyism and nepotism going on in our community. We were well aware of it, however we were silenced by the immense pressure of the community to be outspoken and be looked upon and mortified or ostracized. With the coming of the open media, one can finally express what has been subdued for generations. I have followed the material here, and am relieved to know that there are like minded people within the community who have suffered and had setbacks at the behest of these so called leaders. No one is being judgemental or trying to score a point. However to levy the burden of the community and on behalf of the Imamat on two individuals is vexatious. And what is their crime? A mere compilation of speeches and farmans (that probably lie around collecting dust in every Ismaili household) into one book, I think it was a great idea To accuse them of wrong doing, is very pathetic and silly. I guess you have not been exposed to the immoral workings of our leaders. No one is fingerpointing anyone, I am sure everyone is aware of what Confucius has long said: " If you point a finger to someone, remember that the other four fingers are pointing towards you". What really has happened is that through this forum people were finally able to speak their minds without having the fear of repercussions from the community. I hope my two cents worth of wisdom will speak to you.

* United States

We can acheive much more with much less, If only !
On May 26th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

NN You are right. and your important and relevant 2 cents speaks to everyone loud and clear. I would add,

The Imam has instructed Leaders to use inhouse and Ismaili resources , expertise and skills. In the case of the official publications and twebsite IF they had done by including and collaboratively using the 15+ pears of experience and skills of this website founders and team, then that official website/s will have been better, cheaper, more relevant for today and therefore its use maximised..

Similarly there are within TKN and globally a wealth of experts and resourses who can be used effectively and appropriately. They would be delighted to help voluntarilty. This would result in budget savings of atleast 25% and an increase of 25% plus in efficincies and outcomes for the Jamat. These are much needed savings which ALL NGO's and social enter[rises are trying to and have to acheive. We are in a global financial meltdown with a double did recession having started.

Yet ttri- annually there is Leaders talk in reports of volunteer fatigue, challenges of sustainability of good voluteer & getting new, good & skills resources. We now have more and more paid staff.

The leaders have been unable to successfully impliment guidance from MHI over the last 15 years. MHI reminded Leaders in 2006 and during Golden Jubilee of the key to succes of institutional governance, harnessing and increasing capacity. More sharing (Including farmans) , more coordination, more cooportion , more motivation, more encouragement, and BY leading by NO coercion and LESS BY force, intimidation, bullying, oppressing, intolerance,or duress, and lead by less control& fear but more by fairness , meritrocracy and feedback.

MHI reminded lears again in 2006 " “The key to future progress will lie less in traditional top down systems of command and control, and more in a broad bottom up spirit of co ordination and cooperation. But such developments cannot be coerced. They require an encouraging enabling environment, supported by broad public enthusiasm for social goals"

* United Kingdom

Feedback is sharing and sharing is encouraged by the Imam
On May 26th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

With respect. No one is slandering Leaders. They are giving important information and feedbak to the Imam, to leaders and to murids. This is what the Imam wishes.

With respect this case is not about 3 people but about all of the community and about Farmans and guidance which Imam wishes us all to have, use and follow and which the Leaders have taken 15 plus years to start to print and distribute and which are a critical need for all murids. Meanwhile Nagib and Alnaz have helped in this process and done so in their book..

The authenticity of Farmans is not at issue in the Lawsuit. However the 2 murids are facing a lawsuit, who out of love and a need in the Jamat printed and distributed them to their Ismaili brothers and sisters. This is precisely what the Imam wishes (Farmans are for murids and should be avilable to murids).

Instead of being thanked, encouraged, motivated or using that resource for the jamat or to incorporate, the 2 murids are marginalised with an LIF announcement 2 weeks after the lawsuit was filed.

Do not the Leaders realise why every murid (if not openly) will be secretly very confused at best, and there will be a degree of added intelectual conflict (material and spiritual).

I hope and pray that everyone involved will be helping to settle this case and to work together.

.

* United Kingdom

Reply to "Another Case in History"
On May 25th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
What do you mean by "the forum section"? Is it the section where your comment and my question are posted? (There is another section called "Forum" on this site, which is distinct from this one we are communicating on). If it is this particular page, then I am puzzled, for I don't recall reading any slandering comment about Hazer Imam...
I hope you do find peace, seeker of peace. :-)
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Constitution MUST BE DEFENDED !
On May 25th, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

The follwoing is a post and a response which the editor of that Website has not printed and so the readers will NOT get a balanced view "

" Posted on May 24, 2010 at 10:21 AM by Soulmate

Bloglaw: You ask, “What has Alnaz done in the publication of the Book?” To answer your question, I do not know what he has done with respect to the the publication of the book, but, in his own statement of defense he has confessed that he has circulated the book. Accordingly, in my opinion, he will be found liable under the copyright law.
As you must also be aware there is also another law for Ismailis, the Holy Constitution, that all Ismailis are required to abide by. What does the Holy Constitution specify with respect to Alnaz’s involvement?
According to the Holy Constitution:
1. Each and every “Ismaili” must comply with the Constitution of the Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims (hereinafter “Holy Constitution”). Article 14.1 (c), (d) and (f) read,
“Any Ismaili shall be liable to disciplinary action who:
(c) Without the permission in writing of the National Council obtained through the Regional Council within whose jurisdiction he resides, prints, publishes, or circulates ANY material or makes any statement or convenes a meeting or assembly purporting to be on behalf of or in the name of or relating to Mawlana Hazar Imam, the Ismaili Tariqah, the Jamat, any Council or any other Ismaili institution;
(d) conducts himself in a manner likely to offend the religious sentiments of the Jamat, or to cause a disaffection in the Jamat, or to create disturbance or nuisance in any Jamatkhana or any assembly of the Jamat, or acts in any other manner prejudicial to the dignity or prestige of the Jamat;
(f) commits a breach of this Constitution or any Rules and Regulations or aids and abets any person to contravene any provision of this Constitution or any Rules and Regulations.
2. The Holy Constitution Article 14.2 reads,
“Proceedings for disciplinary action against any Ismaili shall be commenced upon a complaint lodged by:(a) any member of a Council authorized in that behalf by the Council; or (b) any Ismaili.”
Accordingly, the Holy Constitution permits “any Ismaili” to commence disciplinary action.
So Bloglaw, just on the basis of the Holy Constitution and Alnaz’s confession that he has circulated the book, would you now be willing, as an Ismaili, to defend the Holy Constitution instead of defending the alleged illegal activities of Alnaz Jiwa and Nagib Tajdin?

REPLY BY BLOGLAW

Posted on May 24, 2010 at 11:25 PM

Thank you Soulmate !.

All leaders should and I certainly would follow and defend the constitution. In this case the constitution allows first for a disciplinary action and process. So what was the disciplinary action taken against Nagib and Alnaz before the lawsuit was filed.

There are rules and a process for disciplinary action in the constitution and of appeals against any decision. lso there is an Arbitration and conciliation processes in the constitution. This includes the authority & process to expel.Was that followed and why that has that not been pleaded ?
Ismaili’s are an example in Canada and internationally in their Arbitration process policies and rules.
• The Leaders including the LIF, are also entrusted with additional responsibilities in the constitution. Did they follow them in this case including but not limited to
the LIF announcement and
maintain and foster the unity of Ismailis and to preserve, protect and strengthen the Islamic social an cultural heritage;
serve the needs of the jamat to enable it to make an effective contribution to the development of the societies in which it lives;
make available to the jamat and the public at large, information relating to the role and contribution of the institutions of the Imamat and the jamat towards development in various regions of the world;
strengthen the jamat and its institutions;

And regarding Alnaz’s confession I would want to be satisfied it was his confession. and I would also want to have all the facts and information which we do not have so far. We should not prempt or pre judge. Imam does not wish us to do so.

Farmans are not mentioned in the constitution but Guidance is amd by implication Farmans. Divinity is affirmed. in the constitution too in the first part of the constitution
(A) The Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims affirm the Shahadah ‘La- ilaha illallih, Muhammadur Rasulu-llah’. the Tawhid therein and that the Holy Prophet Muhammad (Salla-llahu alayhi wa-sallam) is the last and final Prophet of Allah. Islam, as revealed in the Holy Quran, is the final message of Allah to mankind, and is universal and eternal. The Holy Prophet (S.A.S.) THROUGH THE DIVINE REVELATION FROM ALLAH prescribed rules governing spiritual and temporal matters.

(B) In accordance with Shia doctrine, tradition, and interpretation of history, the Holy Prophet (S.A.S.) DESIGNATED and APPOINTED his cousin and son-in-law Hazrat Mawlana Ali Amiru-l-Mu’minin (Alayhi-s-salam), to be the first ImamTO CONTINUE THE TAWIL AND TALIM OF ALLAH'S final message AND TO GUIDE THE MURIDS and proclaimed that the Imamat should continue by heredity through Hazrat Mawlana Ali (A.S.) and his daughter Hazrat Bibi Fatimat-az-Zahra, Khatun-i-Jannat Alayha-s-salam).

(D) The authority of the Imam in the Ismaili Tariqah is testified by Bay’ah by the murid to the Imam which is the act of acceptance by the murid of the permanent spiritual bond between the Imam and the murid. This allegiance unites all Ismaili Muslims worldwide in their loyalty, devotion and obedience to the Imam within the Islamic concept of universal brotherhood. It is distinct from the allegiance of the individual murid to his land of abode,

(E) From the time of the Imamat of Hazrat Mawlana Ali (A.S.), the Imams of the Ismaili Muslims have ruled over territories and peoples in various areas of the world at different periods of history and, in accordance with the needs of the time, have given rules of conduct and constitutions in conformity with the Islamic concepts of UNITY, BROTHERHOOD,JUSTICE, TOLERANCE, AND GOODWILLl".

* United Kingdom

Constitution may be defended
On May 26th, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

Do you think that the LIF and Sachedina followed the ''Holy'' Constitution as you named it. I really don't think so on going public like that, they harmed the ismaili community and our beloved Mowla. Mr Sachedina did not think about all the consequences, this is really a narrow minded thinking and as I said before, he should pack and resign. What a shame for the community to have a leader like that, instead of thinking of the well being of the ismailis and the Imam, he just thought to have revenge and destroy a murid, Sultan Mohamed Shah was worried about our khoja's jalousy, instead of helping each other, we destroy our brother and sister. Mr Sachedina did exactly that as a leader of the jamat because he has the power and magrury follows.

* Canada

Did Dr Sacedina follow Guidance !
On May 26th, 2010 Perplexed (not verified) says:

Dr Sachedina it seems did not follow the constitution in dealing with murids in this case.
The national councils should have prepared a detailed paper of ALL the allegations, facts, evidence and the impact.
The LIF would have reviewed them.
The IIS would have been invited to give a detailed assement. An impact analysis and paper would have been prepared by them,
The 2 murids would have been invited by their national Presidents & councils and given an opportunity to comment and responnd.
Then a critical internal legal and impact paper would have been done (after consulting Ismaili lawyers if avilable or the firm in question for a legal opinion)
Then and only then MHI would have been approached with a recomendation, options and guidance.
The above according to information available in the public domain was not done. If it was then it would more than at least 3 months. The lawsuit was filied within weeks of the last discussion of one of the defendants Nagib and Dr Sachedina..

If that is true then the constitution, guidance and farmans of MHI were not followed.

Murids are therefore perplexed. If any Leader has specific information to the contrary, we would all be happy if they can share it.

* United Kingdom

We are not Moral Police like Taliban
On May 25th, 2010 hasan (not verified) says:

Any individual can initiate dsciplinary action , but with a proper code of social behavior. Every Tom, Dick and Harry is not allowed to become the moral police. This is how the Taliban was born.

What I see now is that some ismailis have taken out their fidai daggers. They want to rejoice in the downfall of others rather than seek middle ground no matter what.

* Canada

Should leaders be sued too !
On May 25th, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

If some of the leaders did not follow the constitution in this case & in the LIF announcement, should they be facing diciplinary action & proceedings according to the constitution or lawsuit filed as havebeen against the defendants. Are there different rules for leaders and for other murids.or does the constitution and rules do not apply to some leaders. In the constitution there is a diciplinary process followed by arbitration and there is an appeal process. The constitution does not appear to have been floowed to the letter and the spirit ? Of course any Ismaili can bring a diciplinary action. The defendants now cannot, because the matter is in court - sub judicse, and the law of the land takes precedence.

MY humble appeal is for this case to be settled and I hope and pray that the defendants will be granted an audiance as this case and the circumstances are unprecedented.

* United Kingdom

Re: Should leaders be sued too !
On May 25th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Dear bloglaw,
Can an Ismaili really initiate a disciplinary action within the Jamat ???? I did read the previous comments too, and the extract of the Constitution, and feel utterly lost. How does one go about it, i.e. to seek disciplinary action ?

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Why not endorse the Book !
On May 24th, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

Farmans and ethics are a part of our faith (Iman). Our Farmans and ethics guide us to seek and share knowledge and to work together. This can only comes from reading, dialogue.and expressing opinions.This is clear from Farmans. So why have the Leaders not yet printed or given easy access to farmans and guidance ? Imam has given permission to share Farmans as we are told that Farmans will be printed soon. 15 years have gone by so far ! By now if there were material inaccuracies or lack of integrity in the Book published, then this would have been pleaded specifically in the claim. So why not endorse this book ? or agree changes and endorse it.

* United Kingdom

I would really appreciate a
On May 24th, 2010 Husayn (not verified) says:

I would really appreciate a book of the latest Farmans of Mawlana Hazar Imam published and distributed by an authorized Ismailia Institution only. To me, it is a matter of principle and common sense.

I am not an expert in Canadian Judiciary...
On May 23rd, 2010 Unnlahaq (not verified) says:

But I must say or ask after reading the posts here:
What does it mean when someone says "...Imam is well connected" or "...He is very powerful"? Does that mean that he (imam) is above the law? But as for this matter at hand I am not sure of what the complaint is and how it is filed?
If the matter of publishing something that was said in a gathering or meeting that was carried over the public announcement system(s), it would be beyond over-reaching to seek an injunction under common law.
Note:
The Common Law is the foundation of the western judiciary.

* United States

Reply to "I am not an expert in Canadian Judiciary..."
On May 24th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Yes, the Common Law is the foundation of the English speaking western world, while the "Code Civil", better known as "Le code de Napoléon" is the foundation of the French speaking word (over 30 countries, including Québec).

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Lawsuit
On May 23rd, 2010 hasan (not verified) says:

The bottom line for the lawsuit will depend upon the Judge. If he allows the Agakhan to fight the case as a spiritual guide then he cannot win the case. If the judge allows the Agakhan to fight the case as an ordinary person , then he will win the case. What I am not sure about is the half-baked, half-hearted attempt of the defence. Either fight or give up.

No matter who wins , the community has already lost. Imamat will never be the same again

* Canada

Who will win
On May 23rd, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

The community and the Imamat will be stronger, & more united. This is mainly because as a result of this lawsuit, there is more internal dialogue and a thorough/necessary institutional spring cleaning and pruning. Thanks to the defendants.

* United Kingdom

Correct. Doctrine of Imamat
On May 23rd, 2010 moosaji (not verified) says:

Correct. Doctrine of Imamat is in grave danger. If the Agakhan wins, then the farmans are not divine guidance and he is not manifest Imam and he does not have the Noor Ilahi. If he is defeated , then he cannot copyright his words .It is a lose , lose situation.

* Canada

correct, Doctrine of Imamat
On May 23rd, 2010 AmarS (not verified) says:

Mr. Moosaji, what makes you an expert on the doctrine of Imamat?

To Ismailis and scholars around the world He is the only person alive today to be an Imam, and Manifest Imam and the direct descendant of the Prophet. He does have the Noor of Allah in him, whether you believe it or not is immaterial.

Whether he loses or not the above facts will remain in tact. No court could prove him otherwise.

Your logic has no legal basis.

* United States

Based on what evidence?
On June 5th, 2010 A-from-Mtl (not verified) says:

I wholeheartedly agree. Under what logic do you claim (original post above, not reply) that a win will prove he is not Manifest Imam and Noor Illaha?
..

Until our present Imam, we could say "Doctrine of Imamat" dictates that only the son of the Imam can be an Imam.
But that is not the "doctrine now is it? Exactly where did you receive you degree on doctrine, sir? The Imam and only the Imam can say what an Imam is and what an Imam does and what is His "doctrine"

Imam is Imam and Noor ul Mubin and the Manifest Light on Earth. (This is our tariqa, it is your choice to accept that or not, but you cannot change the fact that this concept of Imam as Manifest light is our Ismaili Doctrine

- A win or a loss is in a human court cannot even change that - for it is in a court created by the hands of those (humans) that were in the first place created by His Will! The law of man is superseded by his creator, and the law of man is not necessarily the will of God.And the will of God is manifest on Earth through His light within Him.

* Canada

lawyers not saying Imam spoke to them!
On May 23rd, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

It is amazing that the lawyers are saying that they are not authorised to say yes that they have spoken to the Imam and taken instructions from him. (After the affirmation was signed!)

What they may have been instructed is not to speak to the Media. If so what they replied in writing! is significantly wrong (as one of the top lawyers!?)

Suppose for one minute the Imam authorised them not to say yes or to discuss circumstances surrounding the instructions. Then the question is why would the Imam do so. There e is a whole lot more than meets the eye. The defendants are understandably very concerned and that is why they have repeatedly and rightly NEED to meet the Imam themselves and be 100% certain in their hearts of the guidance and wishes of the Imam. .

I hope Leaders including LIF members who read the news post of today will pass this on for clarification of guidance and conduct a full internal independent and objective review.

* United Kingdom

I think murids worldwide
On May 24th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

I think murids worldwide agree that a mulakat with the Imam is necessary, Mowla will be in Toronto in 2 days, What an opportunity to solve this case, I hope that the leaders read all this comments and will have the Akal to give just 5 mns to the defendants. Otherwise, I think 75% of the jamat workdwide won't believe them anymore, of course there will be always their chamchas...

* Canada

Lawyers refusing to answer may be supporting defendants' concern
On May 23rd, 2010 Concerned Ismaili (not verified) says:

All I can say is wow !!! The question posed to the lawyer was NOT to reveal "instructions" received or the nature of the communications but simply to answer IF HE spoke directly to the Imam. He essentially refused to answer THAT question, is it because he has NOT spoken to the Imam?????? Saying yes would not be revealing the instructions at all. But it is telling.

Is it any wonder the defendants and many Ismailis are confused what is happening. I think that the defendants' concerns seem to be well grounded. Hmmmmmmmmmm... what next.

* Canada

Imam has filed an affidavit but does not want to meet Murids
On May 22nd, 2010 PERPLEXED? (not verified) says:

Lot of implications to what is going on here, to many including myself it is unfathomable that our MOWLA is not willing to meet and explain kindly to his Spiritual Child. I agree that there is still a chance that this action too might not convince the defendants, but the Jamaat would view this so positively and with no support to the defendants thereafter.
I have felt for some time that our Imam has become too far removed from us, there is no direct relationship, no conversation, simply too many layers between us and it is leaving many like myself empty and thirsty. Now it is all like a mega corporation and big business, we should be aware of the pitfalls. I pray that this is resolved amicably and does not end up leaving lasting damage to any party.

* Canada

It is indeed very unfortunate...
On May 22nd, 2010 Ali Abjani (not verified) says:

It is indeed very unfortunate that MHI has to cover for the mistakes of the leaders.
Based on the manner in which the entire issue has been handled by the leaders, and in order to maintain the Jamat's unity, MHI has no choice but the accept that he initiated the letters and the law suite. Having worked within AKDN and worked with people at Aiglemont and Geneva, I have known first hand, how these so called "leaders" function and behave. How many of the reports are "edited" and "summarised" to completly change the contents and meaning of the reports.

It is indeed very unfortunate
On May 23rd, 2010 NN (not verified) says:

You are absolutely right in your statement when you say that reports were edited or tweaked to suit their self interest. I salute your honesty and candidness in bringing this to the attention of any and everyone through this forum. I guess and believe that something good has come out of this nasty ordeal. Hopefully, through this medium and forum, the long held secret of the operations will finally come to light and hopefully will result into some meaningful change and expose the naked truth of how our so called leaders have served. Your analysis as that of the community that has rather taken a face of a huge conglomerate is evident. Its all about greed and power ego. And unfortunately the most recent or rather the 21st century convert to join the bandwagon is none other than Messrs Shafik Sachedina and party. Like you, myself and many others that I can name, who have served or tried to serve the Imam in the very vision that he envisions, have unfortunately resigned or given up their functions due to these philistines! During my career with various institutions, I had the privilege of meeting a lot of capable and qualified people who would have been an asset to the community, but left due to the immense manipulation executed by these so called leaders. It was a shame to lose some of the most bright and visionary people I have come across.

* United States

It is indeed very unfortunate
On May 25th, 2010 Salaam (not verified) says:

I totally agree with you.

You have explained it very well.

Thank you and Ya Ali Madad!

* Canada

Leaders dont use the good & skilled
On May 24th, 2010 Leader (not verified) says:

You are right. Most who read this will agree. This means that instead the excellent skilled & available volunteers, the Leaders use nepotism and bigotry. We therefore have less volunteers and more paid staff who answer to their paymasters. He who pays the piper ..... Imam and many leaders and the community know and hopefully they will also agree that change is critical. Why would there have been a need for this case instead of internal dialogue.

* United Kingdom

Reports to Imam are changed and guidnace held back !
On May 23rd, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

It is so sad and we hope that the time has come for leaders to change or to change the leaders. Let us hope and pray that this lawsuit has brought change.

* United Kingdom

We are to blame
On May 22nd, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

You are right. .Most feel the same way but do not say so because they are afraid of retaliation or for other similar reasons.

As a result the Leaders and the institutions are too busy protecting, controlling and commanding and playing musical chairs in thier reports and appointments. Instead they should be tirelessly and selflessly busy listening building capacity, sharing and following guidance. If they had this case would not have been filed and farmans would have been distributed.

So have the leaders failed us and the Imam or have we failed them by not speaking up and giving feed back without fear or faviour.

It is never too late to start..

* United Kingdom

LEADERS ARE CORE OF MOWLA
On May 25th, 2010 Begum (not verified) says:

The Jamat is never satisfied. The Leaders do take notice and do follow ups for any untoward or irrational actions of the murids. So how do one teach such murids to rectify their disrespect to the Imam? Severe actions. that is why we, as Ismailies, are the best in the world religions- well disciplined and ethical which is what our Imam wants. Ths is very very shamful for the murids to publish something without informing the Leaders. It seems the Jamat has no respect in Mowla's action to appoint Leaders. How dare anyone point a finger at Hazar Imam's Leaders?

Imam has filed an affidavit but does not wwant to meet Murids
On May 21st, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

The Imam has filed an affidavit to say effectively that he authorised the lawsuit and also the LIF announcement. However The defendants had asked for a meeting not a notarised affidavit because they have good reasons and really NEED to meet their Imam before they agreed.

So why did not the lawyers pre agree with the defendants if the affidavit & its content was agreeable to them. Why one sided action. This is another example of being confrontational. What good is tis e affidavit except for scoring points, and/or a bit of PR for the community, and/or a lot more money and time.

Why not have a meeting with the Murids because if this lawsuit proceeds the Imam and the leader will have to have a face to face sadly in court.. This is washing more laundry in the public. Why not have a meeting now in private ?

Why would the Imam not want to have a meeting with his Murids inwhat is an unprecedented and historiacally a never before situation and circumstances. .

* United Kingdom

DU DU
On May 22nd, 2010 Amin Hussain (not verified) says:

Once Imam Sultan Mohd Shah said that in Eastern Africa there is a DU DU name animal and if it enters into a leg thru some ones foot, then it must be removed immediately, if not it grows inside the persons leg and only relief is to amputate that leg and he said similarly if a dispute occurs in the Jamat remove it instantly or else it spreads. Keeping this Farman in mind let us hope this is settled asap.

* United States

After reading the sworn
On May 21st, 2010 someone (not verified) says:

After reading the sworn notarized statement, I would accept the premise that HI at least authorized the lawsuit to proceed. Until now I was leaning towards Nagib and Alnaz but I think this document to a satisfying degree shows that HI himself wanted to/ authorized the pursuit this action. Even though it may not make sense, I think HI wishes should be respected and obeyed.
As for the requested meeting, it is the Imam's right to grant or not grant a meeting. An unprecedented action does not constitute a need on Imam's part to meet anyone. I think at this point it would be naive to believe that the leaders have kept the meeting request hidden from the Imam given the heartfelt defense the 2 defendants filed in response to the lawsuit.
My personal feeling is that this whole ordeal maybe an extreme test of faith for these faithful murids.....

* United States

Signature
On May 22nd, 2010 Ali (not verified) says:

Did it ever occur to the defendants and those supporting them that Mowlana Hazir Imam has injured his shoulder and that may have affected his writing???

* Canada

Yes
On May 22nd, 2010 heritage says:

see: http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/node/29761

"the first authentic signature specimen was from a document dated 2009 which was after the shoulder operation of the Imam and just 4 weeks before the forged signature."

* Canada

Heritage's above post
On June 12th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Bravo, Heritage ! Thank you for this clarification! This website is really to be commended for its quality.
Keep up the good work! All the best!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

to settle or not to settle
On May 22nd, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

Everyone will agree that MHI is now backing the leaders & the lawsuit. It seems this case will be settled within 30 minutes if a meeting is granted. If a meeting is not granted then it can take years in court. The final outcome of the lawsuit and debates in the public global arena is at best uncertain .Hopefully the defendants and the Leaders/lawyers are at this very minute trying to find more common ground to settle.

.

* United Kingdom

I don't follow the logic in
On May 22nd, 2010 someone (not verified) says:

I don't follow the logic in your statement when you say that "If a meeting is not granted then it can take years in court." A meeting is not the defendants right. Based on what the defendants filed as their defense, all they wanted was to make sure that the Imam aware of the lawsuit and authorized it himself. If it seems that MHI is now backing the leaders and the lawsuit then that should be satisfactory in my opinion. What if the Imam himself is refusing to grant the meeting (and I'm not saying that that's the meaning behind the notarized sworn statement) so should the defendants still insist on getting a meeting or else the case drags on in the courts??

* United States

I saw the statement and I
On May 21st, 2010 Kericho (not verified) says:

I saw the statement and I saw quite a lot of irregularities. But I am not an expert, and since we know some forged documents are going around, for once we should restrain our self from being judgmental... [or should I say judge and mental ;-)

I am surprised Hazar Imam would want to confirm that he authorized some announcements to slender his Murids.. seems like someone in higher circles is trying to cover himself.

Kericho's above post (I saw the statement and I)
On June 12th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
You are witty, Kericho ! (re: judgmental ( judge and mental) ! Thanks for making me laugh!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

statement
On May 23rd, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

what irregularities did you note?

* Canada

The statement
On May 23rd, 2010 noor (not verified) says:

Where is the statement?

* Canada

Lawyer
On May 20th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

The defendants have understandably requested a meeting with the Imam. The lawyers confrontational style, threat and behaviour is inconsistent with the Imam behaviour to anyone let alone his Murid.

This shows clearly that the defendants are right in seeking a meeting with their Imam, and to know directly the Imam's wishes. They have understandbly lost all trust in the leader in question. The way the leaders are dealing with the case shows that this is a classic case of too much ego, power and control in one or a few individuals, who have lost focus and are being rules by ego and emotion. The are not practicing what the Imam wishes or what they preach (humility, non confrontational, dialogue, unity love etc...)

Let us hope that the Leader in question will meet the defendants and together they will seek a meeting with the Imam and this lawsuit can be settled and a new LIF announcement is made.

Also at the same time and equally important there is change. Therefore instead of having more of the same command and control model of leadership which stiffles and frustrates the sharing and access to knowledge and guidance. The new model should be a natural & meritrocratic, and one which is of sharing, of access and of love trust and unity. In this re energised way the community will acheive in a year, at least 10 times more. The leaders know that this is achievable.

Leaders please settle this and arrange the meeting. !

* United Kingdom

Kalam-e Imam-e-Zaman
On May 19th, 2010 Awji (not verified) says:

I am a member of Russain Jamat in Moscow. Here as you may now we have no Jamatkhana, no Tarika Board. Inshallah, some day we will have. Farmans are delivered here by our leaders only in community gatherings especially in Noruz, Imamat Day and Salgirah. Recently I got the Golden Edition of MHI Farmans. I am so very grateful for the book. It's like a light in the dark to me. The editors have done enormous work of giving me access to MHI Farmans. I think every Ismaili family should have this book. Regarding the lawsuit, our leaders must have forgotten that we are a forward-looking community, this what makes us unique. MHI is teaching the world about cosmopolitan ethic. How can we be ignorant of his precious guidance? We survived from prosecution by turks, mongols, post-mongol era and now in the 21 century our own leaders create obstacles in getting access to our dearest MHI Mubarak Irshads? This is a matter of very earnest regret to me! I hope the leaders who are involved in the case read this comment and stop their destructive and ridiculous activity. My warmest regards and compliments to Golden Edition Team. Ya Ali madad from Moscow!

* Russian Federation

Kalam-e Imam-e-Zaman
On May 20th, 2010 Amin Hussain (not verified) says:

I understand your comments. However, this lawsuit highlights the importance of the Farmans as well as the importance of having access to them.

* United States

Reply to Awji's comment
On May 20th, 2010 kanize (in Canada) (not verified) says:

786
What you say is most interesting, Awji. So few of us in the Western world would know how the Jamat operates in Moscow, so few would know that you have no Jamat Khana, no Tarika Board... Thank you for informing us. Yes, I too find the whole situation so sad and so distressing and so regrettable. Hazer Imam must be so upset. And it seems to be taking so long to resolve...
Alas, I don't think any leader involved in this case would visit this web site, and worse, I don't think any member of the Jamat who disapproves of their action would have the courage to ask them to reconsider their course of action... I hope at least that many of us can pray for them (and the rest of us) to have haqiqati samaj.
And I find it interesting that you don't seem to doubt for one second that it is our leaders who are behind this law suit, and not Hazer Imam, as they claim...
Thank you again for this interesting comment, Awji. All the best to all of us.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

I agree with you.
On May 21st, 2010 Naseer (not verified) says:

I agree with you.

* Canada

we are encouraged by the Imam to give feedback !
On May 20th, 2010 Follower (not verified) says:

It is sad that the Jamat are afriad to give their ideas and feedback totheir leaders for fear of reataliation. In all organisations feed back and internal self assessments are the best way to know, learn and improve..

Imams guidance for all Tarika, council and institutional activities is to first have a forward planning document of the need of the activities, the challenges, the benefit, the outcome, the cost and impact of the activity. Then second during the activity there is a review and an evaluation by both the parties, the beneficiaries and the activity stakeholders/managers/presenters. Thenthirdly a post activity evaluation is done which includesthe lessons learned, new ideas, suggestions and how to improve activities in the future. At all stages participation in comments, suggestions and ideas are encouranged, critical and welcomed..

Thereofre in this case not only should the leadership encourage feedback from the Jamat but should welcome constructive critique. This is what Imam wishes and is His guidance.

So all those who are reading this should feel comfortable in sending emails/commnets to their regional and national leaders about this case and any other ideas or thoughts.. In fact you should all invite all leaders to alsoread the comments on this and other blogs so they can understand and if they wish to then request the leader/s to reconsider.

Please feel free to do so because you are following the guidance and wishes of the Imam in doing so

* United Kingdom

Kalam -e Imam-e-Zaman
On May 20th, 2010 H (not verified) says:

You are right Mr Awji from Moscow . I do hope that the leaders understand this . It is hard for our Brothers & Sisters in the remote areas to get access to these precious farmins of Imam.
The editors have done a great Job.

i would like to get my hands on the Book too- inshallah .
regards
H

* Canada

Firman is Noor
On May 18th, 2010 Rooh Dost (not verified) says:

I am surprised by the lack of ignorance of the Jamat at large regarding the importance and access to Holy Firman and this ignorance is due to the same thing (Firman). My dear brothers and sisters, Frman is a continuous flow of His Noor (Noor-e-Nabuwwat) and our Imam would never like that this Noor should not be access to my Jamat. And anyone who tries to put hinderance or obstacle the flow of this Noor is accountable to Mowla Bapa. ITREB should be grateful to Nagib & Alnaz for doing this great job. I asked ITREB how many Firman they printed so far and given to Jamat. It doesn't make any sense to keep the Firman with Mukhi Kamadia and read in the Jamatkhana ocassionally. When we listen to the Firman in JK, how much we remember and after sometime we forget. If we will not have the Firman with us at home then how can we remember, understand , think, internalized and bring into practice. Due to inaccessibility of Hidaya of Hazar Imam containing the guidance of value system ethics, spiritual and material upliftment, what is the condition of our jamat especially the young one morally, ethically and spiritually.

I salute Mr. Nagib and Alnaz for the great job. You have lion heart and you didn't care for you name defamed by our leader and jamat.

* United States

I agree with Roooh Dost completely.......
On May 21st, 2010 N S (not verified) says:

I hope ITREB people are listening to this and will take rapid action in printing HI farmans and distributing to the locals jamats...and farmans are for the benefits of the Jamats individuals which they can understand and implement in their day to day life......if they will keep hidding guidance of our beloved MHI and this is gonna to happen one or the other day....

More to say.......

One Jamat from India..mumbai

* India

Firman is Noor
On May 20th, 2010 Noor (not verified) says:

Very well said. Firman is off course Hidayati Noor or Noor-e-Nabuwat. It recollects my memories of Karbala where the army of Yazid ceased Hazrat Abbas (brother of Imam Hussain) to access to the water needed for Imam's faithfuls. Hazrat Abbas was bringing the water and Yazid's army dismembered one of his hand carrying water then another hand. He then took the water container (Mushaq) on his hand and they broke it as well but Hazrat Abbas never lose his courage. These leaders are all playing the part of Yazid by not allowing to people like Hazrat Abbas to impart some knowledge (as water) from the ocean of Noor-e-Nabuwat to Imam's thirsty murids needed badly in this scorching heat of evils just to improve their quality of life spiritually, mentally and physically.

* United States

firman is noor
On June 6th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

a bit far fetched , in my opinion.
Imam has authorised official copies of firmans to be released thru Itreb . Patience please

Well said!!! Farmans guide
On May 19th, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

Well said!!!

Farmans guide the murids through their lives, we need them, thanks to Mr Tajdin we can have access to them. Did you notice that there is no audio Farmans of MHI in Jamatkhanas anymore, just readings, sometimes it would be nice to hear the voice of MHI, even that the leaders took out from us. I hope that the 2 defendants will have a mulakat with Mowla when he comes to Toronto. The leaders need to do that.

* Canada

AS this is such an
On May 19th, 2010 confused Murid (not verified) says:

AS this is such an unprecedented case, & circumstances, I also hope that the Leaders and the defendants will together request and have an audiance with Imam and I pray that then they are also ALL blessed with a Mulakat.

* United Kingdom

Whar are farmans and talika's to Ismailies !
On May 19th, 2010 Murid confused (not verified) says:

Well put. This is also why the Lawsuit is also so confusing

In the lawsuit the Imam (or is it the Lawyers have legally ? claimed ) “A “Farman” is an address by the Aga Khan as Imam to his community. A ‘ Talika” is a brief, written religious message conveyed to his community by the Aga Khan..and futher .” In addition because the Aga Khan has not had an opportunity to edit, arrange, select or otherwise control the manner and forn of the presentation of his Farnans and Talikas,the Infringing Materials infringe on the Plaintiffs moral right to control the integrity of his works

No wonder the community are concerned and are anxiously seeking clarification..

* United Kingdom

firman is Noor
On May 18th, 2010 dolly (not verified) says:

Bravo!
very well said.It is so true.

* United States

My Bayyat to MHI gives me right to access to farmans
On May 18th, 2010 soul friend (not verified) says:

ya ali madad,
farmans are the only source to find what are Mowla's wishes and thoughts or else the Jamat would always be mislead or misguided....

Any one who has given his bayyat in B.K. has a direct link with Imam. mowla says(paraphrazing) there is no council, no mukhi kamadias.... between the murid and Imam ... this is a direct link ..... hold on to that link my dear brothers and sisters and you will have access to Imams guidance and directions (zahir and batin).

mowla (SMS) (paraphrazing) says when u do wrong, your soul tells you this is wrong.... and even when u reach 7 th heaven or elevate spiritually, your soul will be the witness ...

u need not have a certificate from so called ITREB to qualify you for the Akhirat or life hereafter .... so thru reg BK practice, learn to dive deep into yourself listen to your soul or inner self to find the truth.

WE NEED TO RISE ABOVE RIGHT AND WRONG (REALM OF MIND) TO KNOW THE TRUTH

ALLAH DOES NOT CALL THE QUALIFIED BUT QUALIFIES THE CALLED ONES.

just repond to HIS noble calling and HE will qualify you.....

pray for Iman ni Salamati for all of my brothers and sisters including myself

Khane
On May 16th, 2010 jimmy the kid (not verified) says:

Do you think that the kids of our jamat who don't come khane should read this book? because there are lots of my friends don't come khane or only come on big days should i keep this information from them?

Do you think a fight between the council and people of the jamat are going to bring my friends to khane more because now there is some sort of censorship? Things they don't want us to know?

* Canada

Trust begets Trust
On May 16th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Repeated guidance from the Imam is for us to share, to read, to study andto follow farmand and his guidance.This includes knowledge, being united and working togerther.

Our children should have access to, and read Farmans. In fact Children are a top priority for the Imam, who wants Leaders to special arrangements to ensure that every child has access to guidance & teaching no matter where they are and how far they live. The Imam has not said that the Farmans in this book are not correct or should not be read.. Ismaili reading them can only be good for them and the community. If they fell any farman is not clear then they can clarify in a telephone conversation. with the regioal secretariat..

Imam has also authorised the printing and distributing of Farmans according to the Leaders. In the last few decades if farmans were printed and provided then this book would not have been printed.. The reason for not giving access to farmans to the Jamat isit seems, because Leaders say there are sensitivities, and fear that Farmans may be misused or get into the wrong hands (and similar reasons for delay). Therefore there is a lack of trust or confidence and the Leaders also seem to feel the Jamat are not ready, comfortable in articulating and interaction with non Ismailies. The root casues remained unaddressed..

The good news is that the Imam has authorised the prinitng and distributing of farmans. Therefore access has been permitted by the Imam. As a result every member of the Jamat should be able to get access to farmans readily from their repective JK's and regions.. .

The Leaders and the Jamat need to be more secure more trustful and confident. The Imam has said “The more secure we are in our own identities the more effective we can be in reaching out to others ” and “ A secure pluralistic society requires communities that are educated and confident both, in their identity and in the depth of their traditions and those of their neighbours “

Let us hope this case is settled quickly.
.
.

* United Kingdom

The sole pupose of firmans.
On May 16th, 2010 Doctor Dolly (not verified) says:

I fully agree with your comment.
Farmans are made for none other than for the jamat to read and implement.
What good does it do if Firmans remain locked in Tarika board office or in mukhisaheb's folder?I have been refused to hand copy a few lines I wanted to write to my Kids studying away in Universities. After a Firman was read in Jk , I was so moved I requested the Mukhisaheb if I could sit in Jk and read it again and jot down a few lines .He flatly refused!
This does not apeal to my intellect.May be this event will eventually will give better acess to Mawla's firmans
I can understand if Tarika board is 2 or three years behind in printing. But it has been more than twenty five years that " precious Gems vol 1" was published.Which is a small book with some excerpts only.
We have been waiting since.
I hope some tarika board person is reading hese comments, I highly doubt it though.

* United States

Tarika
On May 17th, 2010 MK (not verified) says:

Guess who is the head of the Tarika board who they report to in Aiglemont.? They you can be sure are reading.

* United Kingdom

TariquahBoard
On May 17th, 2010 England (not verified) says:

Like you , firstly most if not all dont dont get access to Farmans and so thier knowledge on identity and faith is being limited, frustated and stiffled. secondly all those magic circle connected within the Leadership get them and circulate them to friends and family. thirdly in this case most are agreeing and wishing someone will comment and constructively question. Asking to read the LIF announcemnet for those who did not attend on the day is an uphill struggle too. .

Thanks to the Lawsuit aand the Leaders for filing this lawsuit & defendants that there is conversation. I hope that everyone and leaders at all levels will try in their own way to ensure politics( led by a conflict of fear, distrust, nepottism & bigotry) is replaced with that of love , sharing and unity.

Many Leaders at different levels are reading and should realise & react positively and proactively . May be this Lawsuit is the Imam's way of saying it is time to do so..

* United Kingdom

Reply to Doctor Dolly
On May 16th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, we haven't had any other farman books... In my city, if you want to read a farman that you missed when it was read and that is not in a book you are invited to make an appointment at the Tarika Board and you can read it in their office...When we struggle to find material time to make it to Khane...
You are right when you say that you don't think any Tarika Board person is reading these comments...
I just wish we could find the courage to say this to them face to face. But then, most people are afraid of retaliation and being put in their black book... :-)
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

reply to Kanize
On May 17th, 2010 doctor dolly (not verified) says:

Whenever any leader does not want to do what may logically seem right from a regular jamati member's perspective, they just say" This is Hazar Imam 's wish". So the opposite person is just dumbed struck and moves away. Certainly none of us wants to go against our dear Hazar Imam.
How many people have time and motivation and courage to verify whether it is the truth!
And since our Mawla wants to build stonger institutions , intelligent person would avoid the confrontation with the leader out of love for Imam assuming the leader has a good conscious to be honest in his service to the Imam, and he loves our Mawla equally.But his assumption may not always be correct.

* United States

response to dolly
On May 18th, 2010 indigo (not verified) says:

"Mowla has said so","it is Mowlas wish"
Doctor dolly you are so correct. This has always been a tactic used by our leaders and it has been a source of immense frustration. According to them Mowla is always upset to see us apart from mandaps. If you stand on the road or hotel lobby to catch a glimpse of the Imam, immediately you are told "Imam is upset about this". The fact that Imam smiles and waves at his jamat means nothing to them. For us that smile or wave keeps us going in this difficult world.
They are adopting the same method with the farmans. They are not releasing the farmans and then they say it is Mowlas wish.
What can we do? I pray that Mowla gives us leaders who know Him, understand His love for the jamat, who will never use His name in vain, and will let the jamat see Him in a disciplined way and make His farmans readily accessible, Ameen.

It is high time our leaders stop treating the jamat as third class, to be kept physically away from the Imam at all costs, and to have no personal access to His words.

* United Kingdom

Indigo's repply to Doctor Dolly (May 18)
On June 12th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
What a lovely prayer, Indigo! Ameen ! Yes, if only we could have leaders that really understand Mowla Bapa and know Him. You are so right about His smile! And you know, I am sure that our presence there where the leaders would rather not want us to be brings a smile on His face too, since we wait on the road or the lobby out of love for Him!
Thank you for your post.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

More of the same for 20 years - Time for change ?
On May 17th, 2010 KM (not verified) says:

Kanize you are right. Instead of making it convenient in giving access to Farman’s, the ;eaders have been deliberately making it difficult for 20 years. Why ? Therefore if they are reading this, why will they change now and make it easier for the Jamat ?.

When members of the Jamat asks, they are told that they are following instructions from the head of the Tarika in Aiglemont. If that is true and there is no reason to beleive it is not true, then the leaders want to deliberately make it difficult and inconvenient for the Jamat.to get access to farmans and knowledge from the Imam

Therefore the Jamat are neither being encouraged to nor give their healthy & genuine critique and suggestions. This is because as you say most of the (unconnected) Jamat are afraid of retaliation and of being put in the black book by the leaders.

That being true, the leaders are being autocratic and do not want constructive dialogue and criticism. This leads to nepotism and bigotry.

The above is against the Imam’s Farmans and guidance. The Leaders in this lawsuit seem to be doing the same and did not to want to have a dialogue with the defendants to settle
.
May be It is time for realization of how much more can be acheived by following guidance and Farmans of MHI. If done selflessly Imagine over the last 20 years, what and how much more could have been achieved for the community. If done, Imagine how much more could be acheived in the next decade. .

Hopefully some of the Leaders are reading, and on reflection will appreciate that these are well intentioned and the reasons for them

* United Kingdom

Farmans
On May 17th, 2010 jimmy the kid (not verified) says:

So is there another book with every farman in it? Can I purchase that? Oh there isn't?

So then to be clear - I shouldn't have the book that has been made available? But instead, I should make an appointment at a council office to get access to read a farmans? And then I can't make a copy or read it at home in case I needed to clarify something later on?

Seems a bit archaic since everything I need is at my fingertips today . www. (anything) .com will take me to a world of information but to read a farman i have to make an appointment, and probably within business hours only and for a certain amount of time. I am so motivated to do so....*sigh*. Maybe i should just read my Harry Potter book. It's right here...I don't have to leave my house...

* Canada

Book
On May 16th, 2010 jimmy the kid (not verified) says:

I think this book is great. I have read a firman every day since i got the book. I guess this is wrong because I shouldn't have access to these? But then how will i know what my mowla says? what if i live too far from a jamat khana to go every day?

What about brothers and sisters coming together to work together in times of crisis? From what I read here is this the type of action I should be taking with everyone? Should I say mean and hurtful things about someone. What if I have never met them?

* Canada

Book
On May 17th, 2010 United States (not verified) says:

When did they ever say you were not allowed to have access to these firmans? Of course you are allowed to have them!! But they are not allowed to make a profit off of them. It's about money, not about whether you should have these in possession. Please read articles more carefully before you respond to them.

* United States

Book
On May 20th, 2010 Concerned about truth (not verified) says:

You say that:
Of course you are allowed to have them!! But they are not allowed to make a profit off of them. It's about money, not about whether you should have these in possession. Please read articles more carefully before you respond to them.

Please be precise. If you read the defendant's defence (I can bet you a farman book you did not read it) they are selling a book for $50.00: with 1,500 (YES ONE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED) pages, hard cover, in a box, with a detailed index, along with an audio book-mark. Try and look for a similar book, ask your kids, nieces, nephews how much they pay for books at school/college/university.

Also the defence says that the Council sells a 44 (yes, FOURTY-FOUR) page Constitution for $20.00.

44 pages for $20.00, at this rate if council was selling this book it would cost (need a calculator) but you can calculate it.

So much for your asking: Please read articles more carefully before you respond to them.

* Canada

Re: Comment of Concerned about thruth of May 20th
On June 12th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Brother, I think at that rate (44 pages for 20$), the farman book would cost about 680$ (not including the handling and shipping nor the audio book-mark)...
Your wording is wonderful, I can't stop laughing!!! Please, do post more comments !
By the way, if ever the defendants win (Insh'Allah!!) and those who returned the books they had bought want it back, they should be charged double or three times more! :-)
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Compromise Discussion & working together are fundamental
On May 16th, 2010 England (not verified) says:

An excerpt of a relevant Farman 15 years ago. "....The second principle that Hazrat Ali emphasized, but which is part of the interpretation of Islam around the world, is the principle of generosity, of kindness, of caring, of forgiveness, that is, of searching to serve those in need, forgiving those who have made any mistakes or even harmed you, because it is that forgiveness which will strengthen you, and which will give them respect for your behavior, and it will encourage them to follow your behavior. Therefore, serving the weak, serving the poor, working together to solve societal problems is a fundamental aspect of our faith. Remember this, because many of you are living in societies where there are deep differences, where there is much pain, and it is essential that you should look to the future on the principle of the ethics of our faith, of generosity, kindness and forgiveness. Remember that as you have been born with an intellect, it is to search out solutions to problems with intellect, not through violent means, but through means of compromise and discussion and attempts to solve, together the issues that are ahead of you or are in front of you at the present time....".

In this case the Leaders and the defendants should all meet together, discuss,compromise, & settle. Then present it to the Imam seeking guidance and forgiveness. Am I wrong ?.

* United Kingdom

Re: England's post of May 16 (Compromise, Disscussion...)
On June 12th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Please, brother, no farman on the web!!!
And, no, you are not wrong, you are absolutely right, they should meet, discuss, compromise; and if they started by praying first, they would reach a settlement for sure!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

lawsuit
On May 15th, 2010 hanif (not verified) says:

MHI is suing own followers? that tells you all you need to know about MHI. If we were really his 'beloved spiritual children' he would not sue. Has Hazar Imam ever sued Rahim, Hussein, or Zahra (his biological kids)? No. Precisely. So how would he sue any of his spiritual child?

* United Kingdom

Re: Hanif's post of May 15th
On June 12th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Hanif, Mowla Bapa would never sue a mureed. He would first have to excommunicate the mureed...Remember, it is not just the mureed that pledges his tan, man and dhan to Him at the time of bayyat, He too makes a promise, that of leading the mureed to salvation.
Never doubt He loves His spiritual children, Hanif, never doubt that.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Lawsuit
On May 15th, 2010 AmarS (not verified) says:

Have Princes Rahim and Hussein, or Princess Zahra violated Hazar Imam's copyrights? I do not think you know anything about the Ismaili Imam the way you are talking. A biological parent has every right to punish his child for his misbehavior. So does the Imam if he really cares for his spiritual children. He does not want them to fall wayside. Have you been listening to what the defendants are saying? They still love their Imam and will continue to follow him! And if you have read the latest on the lawsuit, Imam has extended to them "Olive branch". He does not want his spiritual children to face humiliation! This is the love the Ismaili Imam has for his spiritual children. Nobody can beat that. Not even a biological parent.

For your information, both the defendants are devoted Ismailis. They love the Imam the way every other Ismaili does. This unfortunate incident is not going to make the defendants love their Imam less. And in turn, Imam's love for both these gentlemen is not going to diminish. This is the Shan of our Imam! This is the shan of Ismaili faith!

* United States

Lawsuit
On May 16th, 2010 Zina Khan (not verified) says:

At least many of them will learn how conflicts are resolved in a peaceful manner....they love to draw a parellel but had it been one of them in a similar situation, by now they would have despatched 'suicide bombers" to resolve the conflict and then they have the audacity to offer their poisoned rhetoric....zk

* United States

The Imam would definately
On May 16th, 2010 London (not verified) says:

The Imam would definately talk to them and tell them off if they were wrong ! Would afather file a lawsuit without first talking to them ! Unless of course there is extraordinarily exceptional and unprecedent reasons for doing so !

* United Kingdom

To kanize and London: my
On May 14th, 2010 fromuk (not verified) says:

To kanize and London:
my concern is not about any law suit or what Hazar Imam would or would not do and such…I am not in any position to say or do anything regarding that…I was just talking about the book itself…the idea of such a book sounds just odd and impractical to me. First of all, look at the size of it…1500 pages or about? I think, It would be a physical challenge to handle it properly, especially with texts as holy and classified as it has…plus all the potential dangers of misuse or abuse directly or indirectly, knowingly or unknowingly in today’s commercially complex and globalized information age…what about the authentication of all the content in it? I think the magnitude of the book that it carries with it could be beyond normal to fathom. It is just not practically justified…that’s all. The rest of the legal and moral matters surrounding the book will play out in their respective contexts, as they are happening right now…and I don’t see a big deal in it. I think some people are just over hyped and mixing up different factors and values that they personally have to make it more complex than it is or should be.

My take about transparency between Jamat and the its leadership was not about pacifically this book…but to resolve the issue of accessing the Farman’s of Hazar Imam one way or the other (which, I sense, does exist to some extent) in much more cooperative and logical ways. And I hope this example would lead us in the right direction…

FROM UK
On May 15th, 2010 VAKIL (not verified) says:

How would a book be odd and impractical? That doesn't make any sense, and is really illogical. It is convenient and comprehensive and sensible way to organise the material chronologically. Your comments suggest by way of analogy, that a dictionary for example should be scattered all over the place, well wouldn't that be impractical? Why would it be a physical challenge? I have a over 1000 books on my shelf right now. How do libraries and houses of knowledge function. Commercial complexity has no bearing in this matter. If its not practically justified, do you propose we have a virtual and online resource- in line with your argument, wouldn't that be more susceptible to misuse in a 'globalised information age.'

* United Kingdom

To Kanize and London
On May 14th, 2010 Peace (not verified) says:

I just love this farman book. It is beside my bed and I read a farman every night.

It helps me alot by reading Mowla Bapa's guidance.

* Canada

whodunit?....... Imam or true believer (Literal transalation)
On May 13th, 2010 dumbfounded (not verified) says:

Taking this matter to court and the manner in which it was announced in JK was totally out of step of the Imam's style of conducting affairs. He has always avoided the limelight of 'controversy' knowing well that this would only serve to hinder his short or even long term goals. However it is unlikely that he was not aware of what was going on, it is not possible that he is so well shielded from the main Jamaat by his chief assistants. A person of such power would have in place more than one channel down to his Jamaat....?? Perhaps he did allow one individual to influence his decision as has been suggested.

A lot of stuff I am reading in these comments are coming from the typical old fashioned believer following his/her old ways:
"Keep everything hush! hush! protect our esoteric path! hide the word of Mowla from the infidels (which happens to be everyone but the Ismaillis)!" "Keep this close, away from the internet" LOL!

So, I am totally dumbfounded, no more is it a discussion whether the 'duo' are right or wrong in what they did but now it is a bigger discussion of whether taking this to court was a right approach .......!!
May I suggest a private sitting with the Imam and the defendants sometime in the upcoming visit to Canada. I could almost guarantee a super positive resolution! We already have indications from the defendants of their goodwill towards the Imam.
I do not see this going much further in the courts, it is obvious to many how ludicrous this whole affair has become.

* Canada

Whodunit
On May 15th, 2010 AmarS (not verified) says:

I beg to differ. Your poor judgment of the Imam's decision to make the announcement in JK speaks for itself. How can an Ismaili ever question Imam's decision let alone state "it was totally out of step..."

I am an old fashioned believer too but I believe that this kind of stuff should come out in open and debated rationally. Sometimes, it exposes the leaders too. People are afraid to speak against the leaders but Imam himself spoke about them in London. It is no secret some leaders abuse their powers! Afterall, they are human beings! They are no saints!

And Nobody, I repeat Nobody can influence Imam's decision.

No Ismaili has ever referred to people of other faiths as infidels! I think you are exaggerating. If they wanted to protect our faith, they would have shut down this site long time ago. I, for one, has learnt a lot about our faith from this site. NT has done a wonderful job and continues to do so although he is now a defendant in the lawsuit.

* United States

Why not settle !
On May 14th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

You are right The main issue is why every effort was not made to settle this issue, and why the lawyers (presumbaly the Leaders) are still looking fora convenient ? way to satisfy the defendants, who would be happy with tele/video conference or a meeting they requested in Feb.

In a conglomerate the CEO has 5 to 15 min slots ads relies on his team and team leaders. They do not have added constraint on their time like social and spirtual needs of their organisations. The Imam has and relies heavily and understandably on the leadership.

Therefore It is not impossible that the Imam may not have had all the information, or may not have implicitly, explicitly and personally authorised the filing or content of the lawsuit. However this is an unprecedented lawsuit and so there will have been a legal and an impact strategic assessment & paper by the leadership and advisors.before the lawsuit was filed. So there must be something huge we do not know so far. BUT from what the lawyers said recently to law times, this does not seem to be the case.

Hence the conundrum and why the filing of this lawsuit by the Imam is so unbeleivable.and has never ever been done by any Imam against a murid.

What I don't understand is why this court case being allowed to continue for one more day or hour for that matter ? unless of course the defendants and the Lawyers/Leaders are meeting and in discussion right now.

* United Kingdom

You will surely backfire
On May 13th, 2010 Gulshanbai (not verified) says:

You will surely backfire every time:

1. If you try to slander, defame, expose anybody, whether innocent or not

2. If you try to take over somebody else's position by using unethical means, or if you try to get rid of anyone just because you consider them to be a threat to your own position

3. If you try to gloat at anyone

Our lord beloved Hazir Imam is the protector and provider of one and all. Therefore, the above never succeed.
In this case, from both sides, I see some signs of all three of the above.
When I say both sides. I would like to clarify that the plaintiff is the leadership and not Mowla.

Why was this case taken to court in the first place by the leaders?
Why were details of the lawsuit leaked on to the Internet?
Why was such a long and detailed announcement made in jamatkhanas worldwide?

On the other hand, the defendants too are taking full advantage of the situation. If not, what is the purpose of this forum?

What upsets me is that none of the parties have given a single thought, it seems, as to how this is going to affect our beloved Imam. Both parties are so engrossed in accusation and retaliation that they have overlooked this important fact.

Whatever the outcome of this case, my heart breaks to say that Mowla, our Imam, will face embarrassment. :(

consider the following:

1. If the Imam backs the leaders and says that this case has been filed with His approval, then He will be questioned as to why He could not meet with the defendants or communicate to them His wishes directly.
Afterall, the defendants are ready to submit their all if they are convinced that it is indeed the Imam's wish for them to stop. Would such questions not be embarrassing for Mowla?

2. If the Imam does not back His leaders, and declares that He did not give approval for this action to be taken, or that this action was taken based on misinformation given to Him by His leaders, then He would have to face the embarrassment of having appointed such leaders in the first place. Are these the type of people whom He has chosen to work with and for Him? People whose integrity is questionable?

That is why I say both parties have not given a thought how this will reflect upon our Mowla, our most most beloved Mowla...whom we can all die for!

Surely this is a heartbreaking situation for all those who love Mowla.

Reply to the post: you will surely backfire..........
On May 20th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

>>>On the other hand, the defendants too are taking full advantage of the situation. If not, what is the purpose of this forum?

>>>What upsets me is that none of the parties have given a single thought, it seems, as to how this is going to affect our beloved Imam. Both parties are so engrossed in accusation and retaliation that they have overlooked this important fact.

I have stated clearly that I have not breached our Ismaili Constitution that our beloved Imam urges us to abide by. I have also not breached any farmans regarding this matter. I have not made one-cent in profits, but give my valuable time to distributing the books to those who wish to have it, often delivering it myself, and also have given some away for free (just to make farmans available to my brothers and sisters. I have NO MATERIAL BENEFIT whatsoever from these activities.

Yet, I am now portrayed as the Imam's enemy by LIF's announcement and the Claim, which was leaked to the web (available to all the world) before even being served with the Claim as per the Rules. The Claim contains untrue allegations against me.

How else can I defend myself, my reputation and declare my version of the situation. I have no other access to respond to the issues and have no other way or form to show and highlight the abuses by the leaders. I have to respond the Claim and the announcement.

So please do not blame me for doing what I am forced to do.

Read my defence clearly and every line which indicates what my position is.

Alnaz

* Canada

You will surely backfire
On May 14th, 2010 Nazish (not verified) says:

Gulshanbai, your post although not as sycophantic as most of the rest, still beggars the question whether you appreciate the implications of your summing up. Are you suggesting that if the Imam has filed the case or at least approved it then he is answerable to the Jamat as to why he chose that course? And if he did not approve the case then are you questioning his judgement as regards who he has appointed as leaders? I note you are following the KIM style of capitalising H when referring to the Imam - is this not odd when the post is actually reducing the Imam's acumen and behaviour to almost less than human?

* United Kingdom

Dear Nazish
On May 14th, 2010 Gulshanbai (not verified) says:

Although you do use $100 words like "sycophantic" thus showing your deep knowledge of the English language, it is surprising to note that you have COMPLETELY misunderstood my post above. Revisit it again and consider my words carefully.

Clearly, the matter is in court now. The two scenarios I presented in my summary revolve around this fact that the matter is now in court. If theory 1 turns out to be true then the court will question Mowla in the manner that I have stated. Similarly, if theory 2 holds true then the court will look condescendingly upon Mowla as to what type of leaders He has chosen.

There is no question of the jamat pointing fingers at Mowla because in our hearts of hearts, we all know that this cannot have been initiated by Mowla. So my dear Nazish, I was trying to appeal to both parties to consider how this, in open court, will reflect upon our Imam. Therefore, both parties should meet, arbitrate and remove this matter from the court so that the Imam is saved from having to answer awkward questions from the court.

Also, I strongly object to the wordings of your last paragraph. Never ever would any momin or murid even think of doing something like this to the Imam.

And btw, what is KIM? Do enlighten me.

Gulshanbai
On May 15th, 2010 Nazish (not verified) says:

Much though I would like to keep this discussion pertinent to the matter I could not resist the temptation to respond to your “jibe” about $100 words – if we are going to have a battle of styles then please look up the meaning of Revisit and consider what again adds to it.

“Clearly the matter is in court” – No kidding! When did that happen? I do have sufficient intellectual capacities to realise that in your post you were disguising your own postulations as “scenarios” for the court. Your comment “in our hearts of hearts, we all know that this cannot have been initiated by Mowla “is adequate testimony to what you really meant. And to your “Never ever would any momin or murid even think of doing something like this to the Imam” I would add no murid would ever even contemplate Mowla being embarrassed by any mortal.

* United Kingdom

Embarrassment
On May 16th, 2010 murid (not verified) says:

When one murid slanders another murid on internet by making anouncements in jamatkhanas worldwide and on the other hand the latter retaliates by exposing the first on the internet that he is a forger, what is the difference between the two?
Furthermore, is this negative quid pro quo within the ethics of our faith? So how can you so ignorantly declare that no murid can even contemplate the embarrassment of Khudawind when clearly this is exactly what the leaders and defendants are doing in their battle of egos??!

* United Kingdom

Repy to Murid
On May 16th, 2010 Nazish (not verified) says:

My dear "murid", do you know the meaning of murid? Do you know the difference between momineen and muslimeen? If you know then you have a riposte to your own comments, if you don't then you cannot possibly understand what a murid will simply not contemplate or countenance. And yes if it is ignorance to rank my mowla above such trivialities then I am unashamedly ignoramus. Pray also tell us which "murid" not only singularly made announcements in jamatkhanas but also somehow managed to do so on the internet as well; never knew our jamatkhanas can be accessed through wifi!

My final words on this particular thread are "Dul Dul ghora Sacho Samirajo", if within a week you have not fathomed out what I mean by that then scream and I will give you more. Good luck with your murad to be a murid.

* United Kingdom

Re: Nazish's reply of May 16
On June 12th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Bravo, Nazish! Very well stated! And to the point!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Well said, Murid!!!!
On May 16th, 2010 Gulshanbai (not verified) says:

You could not have expressed it better!

This is exactly the point I was trying to make.
But even further than quid pro quo is the fact that any outcome of this case now - whether in the favour of the leaders or the defendants, or even if the case is withdrawn - will cause embarrassment to the Imam.

For this we must all bow down and beg for forgiveness.

The momin from Kericho (below) should consider this:
Is defending our own honour worthwhile if it causes even the slightest bit of discomfort to our Mowla?

If it was I, and this is purely my own opinion, I would have left the whole matter in the capable hands of my Imam and prayed day and night: "jem Draupadi na chir puriya, tem karjo amaari saar" .... "raani vinove apna shahjine emu Allah saami raajo lajaa raakhan haar"

Thereafter, the miracles of Mowla would have unfolded, for one and all to see. This is what is meant by 'sabar'; human beings always feel they can fight their own battles but if only for once they would give Mowla a chance to fight their battles for them, the outcome would be far more pleasing.

With all due respect and no offence intended to anybody. I am speaking from what my imaan has taught me.
Take this in the good spirit from a lady whose hair has turned grey from experience of fighting against this world who now knows that my hair would still be shiny luxuriously black if I had left it all in Mowla's capable hands.

It is called legitimate
On May 16th, 2010 Kericho (not verified) says:

It is called legitimate self-defense. it is apparent that the defendants knew since January or early February about the forgery and probably the identity of the forger. They may even have expected the slandering and defamation as it was already told to them from one of the documents on this web site. They had kept the information under lock.

I don't think it is fair to expect them to sit tight and do nothing while their reputation was attacked by irreversible mass circulation of the lawsuit on the Internet and nasty announcements in Jamatkhanas.

Re: Kericho's post (It is called legitimate)
On June 12th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Brother, you are right re: legitimate self-defence ; there is also a duty towards truth: how allow people to mislead the jamat by saying that Hazer Imam is suing a mureed when we know (or rather, should know) that He would never go against the bayyat of a mureed, He would first have to excommunicate him??? How allow such mass misleading?
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Perfection
On May 14th, 2010 bloglaw (not verified) says:

What is most important now is for Shafik, approprate Leaders, sit together with Alnaz and Nagib and they should all agree to meet or speak with Imam and seek forgiveness and place a solution before the Imam for guidance. Does any one beleive that the Imam will refuse and not be so very happy that his Leaders and the Murids are working together. After all Imam has reassured us that he loves us more than we can ever love him back. I hope and pray that this is happening right now as Sachedina is in Toronto. Ameen

This forum & healthy debate and discussion are extremely important and should not be stiffled. This is they way for Leaders & Murids will all get information and suggestions which they may not know. All the insitutional guidance from Imam is to get correct information and complete which will enable informed decidions by leaders, institutions and all of us in whatever we do.

Whatever happens happens for good although we may not realise it at the time. As a result of this lawsuit Firmans & guidance will be accessable, shared and distributed more quickly. In addition the Leaders have an excellent opportuinity to do a comprehensive self critique & governance assessments and make whatever appropriate and effective much needed changes are needed in accordance with the guidance and wishes of the Imam

We all need a bit more of hakikati samaj !

* United Kingdom

This is a story like David
On May 13th, 2010 Kericho (not verified) says:

This is a story like David and Goliath. It may or may not backfire.
Mowla will find a way to protect the dignity of all parties involved.
The plaintiff is in Toronto today - I mean the real plaintiff, not Mowla ;-)
No doubt Mowla knows what happens and why it happens when it happens.
And the resolution will come sooner than later. So put your seatbelts and relax! Mowla is in control :-)

Re: Kericho's post (This is a story like David)
On June 12th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Your sense of humour is certainly entertaining and does cheer me up, Kericho! I admire your wits!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

If Sachedina is in
On May 14th, 2010 Good Leadership (not verified) says:

If Sachedina is in Toronto,in advance of the Imam's visit, then this lawsuit will be high on his personal and institutional aganda. Let us hope this is settled before Imam comes, and the media does not decide that the lawsuit is the story and that case does not overshadow the visit.. By now the Ledaership will know this and know what to do.

* United Kingdom

Who initiated the action??
On May 13th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

- If the Imam initiated the action, then He at the same time refused to meet the defendants and spent the time to initiate the action. He permits that the Imam be publicly seen fighting against a murid who pledges allegiance to Him. He from the start of the action let a lot of rumours be spread and let the Jamat be divided on the matter.. And being the Lord of the Time, he asks for more time from the court???... The more I think about it, the more preposterous this view sounds.

- If some well-intentioned but short-sighted leaders made the mistake of forgery and started the action, then it would make sense that no contact has been allowed between the defendants and the Imam. It would make sense that these leaders would try to garner as much negative publicity, rumours, emotional appeals and pressure against the defendants for the defendants to make some 'confession' under pressure so the case can be closed without actually involving the Imam. It would also make sense that they asked for a delay since they could not get any affidavit from the Imam, and cannot allow a meeting with the Imam whom they have bypassed. It would also make sense that the Ogilvie Lawyers seem so worried as to how to convince the defendants without flying the Aga Khan to Toronto, it would make sense that the lawyers seem so misinformed, not knowing that the Imam is coming to Toronto soon, not knowing that the Imam was not in Paris but in Boston, not knowing that the defendants would be willing to fly anywhere anytime at their own expense to meet the Imam.

- If any part of what the defendants say is true, then the defendants have no choice but to show all their cards and wait for further guidance from the Imam himself while they try to minimize the impact of the rumours on the well-being of their family.

* Canada

who initiated the action
On May 13th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Waoh, this is so clear

Where are the leaders?? Where is Mr Sachedina, tomorrow is chandraat, is he preparing again something big on behalf of the LIF and MHI against those 2 families. Mr Sachedina, you should pack and resign because you lost all credibility in front of the jamat and ask for forgiveness to the Imam and to those 2 families. I am sure you won't do that but believe me when we'll see you near the Imam, we'll always have this second thought. As I said before, I hope strongly that this mess will be solved very quickly

* Canada

mr sachedina
On May 19th, 2010 karim m dossani (not verified) says:

If i was you i would have already apologized to the two families, and to all the ismaili brothers and sisters and withdrew the case immediately so that the whole issue is closed,As hazar imam is very soon coming to Toronto, and you dont want to face him with your black face. Imagine the media having a field day with all those questions fired at bapa!!!! dont you think that is something we dont want the world to point fingers at our community at large through all this negative atitude and bapa having to answer for us? have a second thought and resolve this issue quickly is my advise to you and forgive and forget

who initiated the action
On May 14th, 2010 NN (not verified) says:

I couldn't have agreed any more than what you have just stipulated, you just confirmed to many the notion of S** being a shady character, and are quite right in you statement when you say that he will be seen or viewed with contempt every time when he appears gloating next to the Imam.

I hope that this situation, which has really taken a nasty turn and created a fireball, is amicably and rapidly extinguished for the betterment of not only the Imam but the community at large. May wisdom prevail!

* United States

who initiated the action?
On May 13th, 2010 doctor dolly (not verified) says:

Bravo! very well expressed!
For a long time same things are whirling in my mind, but I could not express it well. You did it.
I agree with you completely.

* United States

Reply to Believer ("Who initiated the action??)
On May 13th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for the sense of humour in "the Lord of time, he asks for more time to the courts???" and your play on words in this comment, Believer! I laughed so hard when I read it! Thank you! Besides, I agree with your common sense in that first paragraph!

Ya Aly madad

* Canada

Who initiated the action
On May 13th, 2010 Peace (not verified) says:

This answers lots of questions for me.

I am intrigued!!!!!

* Canada

When I read about this book
On May 12th, 2010 fromuk (not verified) says:

When I read about this book here, my first reaction was like…who is publishing and distributing this book? Is it from any Jamati institution or the national council and if so, which is that? Because, I personally think that the idea of gathering pretty much all of the Hazar Imam’s Farmans, Taliqas and other guidance in one huge book is not such a wise idea on multiple levels such as sensitivity of the content, Authenticity, and other technical infeasibility.

However, I do realize that Hazar Imam’s latest Farmans may have been inaccessible to some degree for a lot of people due to whatever reasons…but, I don’t think that coming up with such a book is the right solution, especially by someone other than an authorized institution or entity.

I suppose, there has been some lack of transparency between Jamat(s) and respective leadership to tackle the issue in much more diplomatic and a sincere way.

* Canada

Reply to fromuk re: "When I read about this book"
On May 13th, 2010 kanize (not verified) says:

786
Perhaps the next step then, after "reading about this book" would be to read a few pages from the book (perhaps the first 20 pages...), and it will instantly become abundantly clear to you (and everyone else) that Hazer Imam would never intent such a law suit that would have this collection of farman dissected in the court...

And, at the cost of sounding as if I am always repeating the same thing, we need to remember that the Imams have never gone and will never go against the bayyat that They have accepted from a mureed: so, They will never sue a mureed. It is distressing to see that no one (it seems in the Institutions and the jamat as well) has understood this idea, this central tenet of our faith...How uninformed can we be, alas...

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Dirtributing & Serving through knowing and knowledge
On May 13th, 2010 London (not verified) says:

Fromuk, I understand your thought processa a d would add.

As far as sensitivity of content and authencity is concerned. The book was sent to the leadership and the Imam in Jan 2010.. The Leaders farman are in the process of being publised . The book was distributed only to Ismailis. According to the email and conversation between Tajdin & the Leadership. The defendants said that they would have stopped if they could speak to or meet the Imam to clarify with the Imam, because they beleive they have good reason to beleive that the Imam was not being given to correct and complete information

Regarding the publication. There are many non institution authoers and writers whoa re publusing books and material all the time which includes excerpts of farmans and guidance including rites and ceremonies. One of the important guidance from the imam is sharing & propagating time, knowlegde, and stress creating a literary culture. The Imam in the last decade has stressed the imporatnce of meritrocracy, pluralism, enabling envoirment and alleviating poverty through educaation and knowledge. Imam has reminded us that we are in a knowledge society. We are today moving into the creative economies and sociaties.

Regarding what you say about farmans not being readily accessible by the community for whatever reasons. The Imam in many of his farmans asks the comunity to share them and to read them and understand them. Therefore these should be available for all members who need to read or study them. How else can they follow and we all need to be reminded and to read a few times so we can internalise them.

Regading some lack of transparancy and sincereity between the Jamat/s and the respective leadership. I asssume you mean some leadership.. You are right that this issue could have been handled and settled diplomatically and with sincerity by the leadersip before the decisionwas was made to file the lawsuit and in fact before this was brough to the attention of the Imam formally.

In the Law Times of Canada Brian Gray, a senior partner at Ogilvy Renault LLP and counsel for the Aga Khan tells Law times …“We are thinking about how we can convince the defendants that it really is the Aga Khan that’s bringing this action,” …“We are looking for the most convenient or maybe the least inconvenient way for the Aga Khan to convince them that he authorizes this action, short of flying him over to Toronto simply because this has happened. That is something he does not wish to do.”… “They clearly believe in what they are doing and don’t think the Aga Khan is against them,” ..
Surely the quickest way to convince the defendants is a telephone call or a video conference or they are invited to fly at the Imam’s convenience. (based on what Brian Gray says, this did not happen) If this was attempted sincerely then significant cost, time and damage would have been avoided.

The Aga Khan, and therefore the community, is known and respected globally as generous, magnanimous, philanthropic and propagates transparency, ethics meritocracy and pluralism institutionally and commercially. ( for the community he is much more). As this case progresses many people internally and externally will wonder why the Imam, (before filing an unprecedented lawsuit ), refused to speak to his followers or to meet them as they had requested. .This can impact Credibility at multiple levels for us as a community

Brian Gray’s response to the media (Law times) should have been “no comments” All media to an official spokesperson, who will have been appointed by the leadership. Brian Gary’s responses & language is loose at best. More media attention I am sure was and should be progressively expected.

I and I am sure everyone sincerely hopes that this case is settled quickly and everyone should proactively do their best to so.

..

* United Kingdom

Obey the Imam
On May 11th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

I agree with Adnan that nothing precedes the duty to fulfill the command of the Imam.

If the Imam said in person in 1992 to continue the project, then, on the Day of Judgement, these defendants will have no excuse if they stop publication based on falsifications, or on some leader's threats, or on announcements that falsely say that Farman publication is against the constitution.

It is indeed a difficult position to be in if you are a faithful follower of the Imam, and ismailis have historically been Farman-Bardari in much more difficult positions: ex: we ismailis believed Hassan Bin Sabbah who was told by Imam Mustansirbillah that Mowlana Nizar is the next Imam, rather than to believe the proclamations in all the Mosques by the Vizir Afdal that Musteali was the next Imam, even if Afdal produced an amended Farman, and condemned and imprisoned Hassan Bin Sabbah.

* Canada

Reply to Believer's comment re: Adnan (Obey the Imam)
On May 13th, 2010 Kanize (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, Believer. Let us hope nobody will ever be able to lead any segment of the jamat astray like Afdal was able to...
It is such a scary thing...

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Obey the Imam
On May 11th, 2010 Sadrudin (not verified) says:

I believe the leaders have taken the right step. Lets wait for the Court ruling.

* United States

Unfair treatment of the Defendants
On May 10th, 2010 Observer (not verified) says:

Quite frankly, the defendents have been treated quite shabbily.

They were verbally abused and threathened by the Agakhan's second-in-command (who should have used some of the Agakhan's public diplomacy!)

They have been sued for spreading his unadultered words,at their own expense.(As a wellknown leaders, he would generally want his views widely distributed!)

They have been condemned in the Ismaili Jamatkhanas around the world, without a hearing (something even the village panchayats (councils) in rural Gujarat understand!)

It is time that the Ismailis used some of the "pluralism " they talk about so much and gave these gentlemen an opportunity to state their side, by an unbiased reading their defence to the lawsuit, BEFORE passing judgement on them.

* Canada

Leadership
On May 11th, 2010 Good Governance (not verified) says:

If true then from an institutional governance point of view, maybe there is a need for a comprehansive & holistic review of institutional governance in accordance with guidance from the Imam. We have entered into the new global era of the creative economy. There are new, thorny, and make-or-break challenges that must be addressed if Leaders wish to to build strong & successful organizations which are fit for all the new challenges of the future. This will require unlearning, uncontructing and reinventing Leadership. In traditional hierarchies, power flows down from the top, rather than up from the bottom. This model has several unfortunate side effects. It tempts senior Leaders to appoint in their own images, and thus reduces genetic diversity, meritocracy trust and pluralism. It encourages down the line managers to safeguard their positions by “managing up,” rather than by managing out and down. It produces frequent misalignments between positional power and leadership capability, and thereby undermines trust and morale. To overcome these failings, the traditional top-down pyramid must be replaced by a “natural” hierarchy, where status and influence derive from the ability to lead rather than from the ability to accumulate & control positional power. In addition, hierarchies need to be dynamic, so that power flows rapidly toward those who are adding value. and away from those who aren’t. Diversity is not only essential for the survival of a species, it is also a prerequisite for long-term corporate viability. Organizations that don’t embrace and exploit a diversity of experiences, values, and capabilities will be unable to generate a rich variety of ideas, options, and experiments—the essential ingredients of strategic renewal. Future management systems must value diversity, disagreement, and divergence at least as highly as they do conformance, consensus, and cohesion. Thereofre Leadership organisations will have to de-couple authority and influence from hierarchical position. If Leaders want to inspire people & their organizations to extraordinary accomplishment, the language of honor, truth, love, justice, and beauty can no longer be relegated to the fringes dialogue and action and fear must be replaced with trust, unity & Love.

* United Arab Emirates

You argument based on
On May 11th, 2010 Adnan (not verified) says:

You argument based on plularism doesn't make sense. These are ismailis who disobeyed the farman of the Imam of the Time. The very first duty of an ismaili is to obey the imam. If he fails at this then that's it. Nothing and absolutely nothing precedes the duty to fulfill the command of the Imam.

* United States

Unfair treatment of the Defendants
On May 10th, 2010 AmarS (not verified) says:

If what the defendants have stated on the internet is true, I agree they have been treated shabbily.

From what I hear in the Jamat Khanas, is that the leaders are to be blamed. But people believe that the defendants should surrender and save Mowla the trouble of a lawsuit.

These gentlemen have stated their position very well on this site and elsewhere. Yes, Ismailis do use their heads and pluralism. That is why we have so many diverse views on this site.

What we have not heard is the side of Mowla. If you have seen any comments from him or his people, please share with us.

* United States

Depositions OR Mulakat
On May 7th, 2010 Sadrudin (not verified) says:

Defendants were requesting for Mulakat with Mowla and they were declined. Due to LIF's short sighted, instead of resolving the matter peacefully and internally and they could have got this done by offering one Mulakat. Theirs this attitude back fired on them, reason for this backfire is, defendants are entitled for taking HI's deposition.

In other words, Defendants will get the mulakat one way or other.

What a poor decision.

* United States

Peer Sadrdin
On May 7th, 2010 RRK (not verified) says:

Ek fikr muniwar amne chhe tamari, manas rupay sahib jaaron ji

* Pakistan

information just received:
On May 6th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

information just received: Ogilvy Renault, the law firm which launched the case has asked for an extension of 15 days to reply to the Defense. They claim delays due to breakdown of emails servers, blackberry communication, travel of senior lawyer, time difference with Paris etc...

The more delays in this file, the more damage it creates to the reputation of the Ismaili community, the Imam and the defendants. It is to the advantage of all parties involved especially our community that this Claim be withdrawn. Though the defendants are agreeing to the extension asked by Ogilvy Renault, delays are not to the advantage of any of the parties involved.

ogilvy renault
On May 9th, 2010 karim m dossani. (not verified) says:

the law firm are cheating,they are buying time its the one of lif member who is behind it, its total shame on the law firm asking for delays

It is rather hard to believe
On May 7th, 2010 Tanzania (not verified) says:

It is rather hard to believe that a jamati leader can file a law suit against a murid without Mawla's permission in his name and make the LIF which is a group of highly credible selected Jamati leaders from worlwide to agree to this kind of act.And make big announcement in Jamatkhanas worldwide ( where Mawla Is ever present spiritually)!
To sue a murid is a big action, I dont' think any one would even imagine he could pull it off without Hazar Imam knowing (in a Dunyavi manner). And Hazar Imam is always on top of all the issues and he is fairly strict in his dealings with the serious work. It is very hard to digest that this is a fraud and someone would dare to forge Mawla's signature!

Mawla is" All knowing" he knows everything.He is most merciful as well!
I am certain of a very favorable outcome for all deserving individuals.
This kind of event happens for a reason.
There is always a big lesson to be learnt from it.

Who really initiated the lawsuit?
On May 14th, 2010 doctor dolly (not verified) says:

The language of LIF announcement sounded very harsh. Not from Mawla at all.
He is so kind and his sentences full of mercy and wisdom. He will not even need such a long announcement.
The announcement seemed from an insecured person or a situation!
I got goosebumps when I heard it almost making me instantly pray to Mawla for his mercy on his 2 murids, for their fault did not seem so serious to be punished so harshly.
Very uncomfortable situation for every murid.
I am sure the case will be withdrawn before the Canada visit.
In my mind currently Mawla is letting it play out it's natural course so everyone concerned gets their fair share of lesson.

* United States

Reply to Tanzania's comment
On May 9th, 2010 Kanize (not verified) says:

786
If Hazer Imam is aware in a Dunyavi manner of this suit, then it implies He is agreeing to it and also wishing it: this seems hard to believe, for Hazer Imam would never go against His part of the bayyat given by a mureed and accepted by Him; He would first have to excommunicate the mureed. Even people who have been lost enough to dare to kill Imams have been spared by the Imams when caught...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

My Thoughts, My Opinions (Without Prejudice)
On May 4th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

The global Jamat is already drawn into the litigation which is filed in Canadian Court via announcements in Global Jamatkhana. We all are intelligent and rational people. We are all educated people, which allow us to think wisely and diplomatically, so that we can control our emotions and sentiments. By stirring up the private matters into a full blown screen of the internet, makes us no better than those whose main aim in life is to point fingers.

Of course, we do not agree with every Shiraz, Samji, and Sultan, and we also beg to differ to any confusion which is clouding our minds. But it does not mean that we are naïve and closing all the doors to negotiation. We have an ability to resolve matters by way of seeking more enlightenment. Whether the matter is premeditated or inadvertent or bears malice, the end result should be a resolution which is amicable and justified.

I do not know why we have become judge and jury. The almighty Allah (God) has given us so much strength that we are able to move forward in our life without bearing any grudges and animosity. We have already proved to the world that we are generous and forgiving people. We have fallen many, many times in our history but with the material guidance from our Imams, we have crossed seven seas, and better our state of affairs, and livelihood. The Islam is preaching to us to be tolerant and mindful about the feelings of other people. It appears; we are preaching but fall short on practicing!

We do not try to be better than our neighbors but we participate in a healthy competition to merit a better livelihood.

There are lots of negative reactions about institutions but unconstructive reaction will always be there, and when we demand perfection then I think, we are sadly mistaken, because nobody is perfect! It is only Allah (God) who is perfect. He is the Creator and merciful and He is also a helping hand with ability to forewarn us about the anger of Mother Nature!
Our ability to predict the weather with our latest scientific technology has not yet helped us to stop the earthquakes and volcanoes from becoming merciless. In these kinds of circumstances we have bowed to the Will of Almighty Allah (God) and begged for His mercy to spare us from the calamity or any ill-fated circumstances.

Today, I am praying for some kind of Divine intervention to bring us out from this situation unscathed. But whatever the outcome of this litigation, it will hurt every Ismaili Muslim. We have to ponder over this matter very seriously so that it does not happen again.

* Canada

Signature
On May 4th, 2010 Rahim (not verified) says:

Hazar Imam's signature, signed in person in Bruno Feschi's program at the openning of the Burnaby JK on Oct 20, 1985.

Note the signature:

http://simerg.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/ijk_agakhan_leter_april5.jpg

* Canada

Most merciful Mowla.
On May 4th, 2010 Adam (not verified) says:

In his most infinite mercy our beloved Mowla has dedicated his entire life to the material welfare and
spiritual upliftment of his Global Jamath. During his over 50 years of Imamat > his followers are diversified
world wide and the community as a whole is one of the most prosperous and organised body of brothers
and sisters bowing down to his command. With the exception of a few ungratefuls >> majority of his followers are
thankful for his grace and blessings. May his divine light guides us all to eternity. Ameen.

* Canada

Signature
On May 4th, 2010 Samir Noorali (not verified) says:

This signature document is very interesting. I personally noticed the 'A' and the way it was written. Most signatures of the Imam don't look like this one. Keep up the good work. What did the defendants think when they saw this signature? Was it obvious to them?

Samir Noorali

* Canada

Blaming Ismailis
On May 3rd, 2010 Shelina (not verified) says:

I don’t think it is particularly fair for you to say that this situation will somehow “modernize and liberate the Khojas from their medieval beliefs.” Show me one community in this world that does not have a past, a culture, a foundation upon which it was built.

And who to you, may I ask, is considered modernized or liberated? Would you consider the Christians as modernized for celebrating the birthday of a man who died 2000 years ago? Do you feel these Christians are liberated when in fact they are waiting for the return of a savior that will bring about an apocalypse?

Khojas are one of the most liberated and modernized people that exist. Ismailis in general are very forward thinking because their entire upbringing is based on the acceptance of balance between that which is material and that which is spiritual. That is certainly a concept the Western world lags behind in, and this in turn is the cause of much confusion between science and religion.

Don’t confuse the issue of Salim Damji and the Ismaili faith. Those are two totally separate issues. In this case, Salim Damji abused the trust that existed within his community. One can say that these Ismailis should have looked into obtaining proper documentation before investing. That was their fault. On the other hand, they truly trusted the people whom they were dealing with. It was Salim Damji who broke that trust. In a Mafia, for example, there would be a contract taken out on you if you were to betray an oath of silence. Khoja’s are not killers, but any community would be upset if this were to happen between its members.

Religion has nothing to do with Colgate. Aiglemont has nothing to do with where people chose to invest their money. The Catholic Church is not going to run around and interfere with the affairs of every private enterprise. What happened between Salim Damji and these individual investors is a private affair. Aiglemont is not in the protection business; it may sympathize or provide advice to the community, but it is not responsible for people’s actions. You are saying that Aiglemont blamed the victims of this case and labeled them as greedy. Since you quoted “greedy,” show me one statement coming from Aiglemont that casts blame or labels the victims as greedy.

You want Aiglemont to punish someone for a crime? That is not their job. That is the job for the law of the land. However, if there are disputes within the community, then instead of spawning tremendous financial losses by either of the parties involved, the best solution would be to mediate and solve the issue through dialogue and understanding. Let’s take an example.

In 1972, many Ugandan Ismailis underwent a crisis in which their businesses, property, and financial holdings were confiscated and they were given very little time leave their own country. In the midst of that crisis, many Ismailis were faced with fear and outrage. They had nowhere to go. To be kicked out of the country, from which they were born, was very difficult to bear. As with many humanitarian situations, these Ismailis panicked and started to point fingers. Who was the first to blame? Aiglemont, in other words the Imam of the time. Rumors began to circulate quickly that the Imam is doing nothing for this crisis and that he is responsible for their circumstances. They blamed him for bringing their forefathers to Africa only to be punished and left penniless.

Many Ismailis took to the streets with the Imam’s photographs, throwing them to the floor and stepping on them. They spit on the pictures and cursed the Imam for having caused this problem. What did the Imam do in response?

Despite all their blames and despite the fact that this was a political affair, Hazer Imam responded extremely well. He quickly sent airplanes, with his own expenses, to airlift each and every Ismaili out of Uganda and into safer territories. Remember, Idi Amin’s campaign was not only targeting Ismails but all Asians. Many Hindus and non-Ismailis were in a similar situation and they pleaded for the Aga Khan to allow them to board the same planes as his followers. Without any discrimination, these planes allowed non-Ismailis to also board the planes towards safety.

On April 22nd, 1992, Hazer Imam made a farman in Kampala, in which he mentioned the crisis that happened 20 years before. As he was recalling how the jamat has returned to Uganda once again, practicing as it should be, there was moment when he broke down emotionally. That emotion occurred because he saw that people were back in the very place that they had left many years before. But what occurred at that time is more emotional for him, because despite the fact that many Ismailis cursed the Imam for having this situation upon them, the Imam loved them and airlifted them to safety.

One should recall that was not Hazer Imam’s fault that these Ismailis were kicked out of Uganda. It was not even his job to dwindle in political affairs. He did it because he loved the Jamat. Every moment of my life I wonder why that is the case, but it seems he does have tremendous affection for his “spiritual” children.

Nobody thanked Hazer Imam for the airplanes. Nobody thanked him for providing first rate schools to educate Ismailis so when a crisis like this occurred they would be prepared to adapt to a new country. Nobody recalled that he warned Ismailis not to treat black African citizens as slaves, or second class citizens. Nobody recalls that he warned Ugandan Ismailis in 1970 not to make a show of their material wealth, as that could cause “ill-feeling,” “jealousy,” or “envy” in other people.

Idi Amin was not a psychopath. He was overly attached to Uganda and his people. He was upset, as many ethnic Ugandans were that Asians were taking over the economy. Ethnic black Ugandans were treated like second class citizens in their own country. Hazer Imam warned them to include black Ugandans in business, in trade, and to allow them to feel like equals. Unfortunately, many Ismailis prospered, but to the expense of making black Ugandans as slaves. Hazer Imam didn’t like Ismailis to behave in this manner, but nobody listened. Then when a crisis came, Ismailis blamed Hazer Imam and said it was his fault. The crisis in Uganda was not the Imam’s fault. It was the fault of the Ismailis themselves.

While mentioning the Colgate scandal, you’re talked about an “official line” that states “Mowla will punish them through his divine powers.” What are you talking about? Stop and think before you make such quotes because there is no such verbiage in any “official” statement. If some individual said this then people are entitled to their own comments. No such statement is to be taken seriously.

The bottom line is, don’t blame Aiglemont and characterize Khojas as being stuck in medieval times. No Khoja, nor any Ismaili for that matter, is stuck in time and if you do your research you will come to understand that the Ismaili way is very compatible with other communities.

* Canada

Blaming Ismailis
On May 9th, 2010 AmarS (not verified) says:

Surely you exaggerate. No ismaili in the Ugandan crisis threw Imam's pictures and spat on them. Neither did they stomp on them. checked with a lot of them. Instead they went and sat and prayed in Jamat Khana.

* United States

I truly support you because we ismailis are not stuck in time
On May 4th, 2010 karim m dossani. (not verified) says:

Thanks for opening the minds of lunatics, who are back minded no more words HATS OF TO YOU

Blaming Ismailis
On May 3rd, 2010 NN (not verified) says:

You are absolutely right, Aiglemont or LIF or for that matter the community should not be blamed for the scheme and fraud that was orchestrated by Salim Damji and party. However the community should have been wiser to know that in today's world, no penny or a dollar generates 100 or 200 % returns. Salim Damji was a schemer, shmuck and a con artist, the community due to their greed are equally responsible for their loss.Nevertheless Shelina, you should inform yourself better, that it was bot only Hazer Imam's hand but most importantly you are forgetting the key link in this airlift under the banner of the UN, that was Prince Sadruddin Aga Khan (may God rest his soul in peace). So before you through yourself into a blog, get your facts right!

* United States

Blaming Ismailies
On May 3rd, 2010 Sadrudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Very well explaind. I fullly agree to every word. Salim Damji did not put a gun on the Ismailies who were taken for a ride. Do not blame Aiglemont,Council or LIF when a crisis is created by individuals or a Government.

* United States

My thoughts
On April 30th, 2010 Indigo (not verified) says:

First of all, I would like to clarify that I am commenting on this issue openly because the LIF announcement in jamatkhana has made the issue open. By making this announcement, they have inadvertently granted permission to the whole global Jamat to get involved in this issue. Ideally, this issue should have been a very very private affair as stated by the murid above from Tajikistan. But the LIF have stirred a wasp's nest
and I therefore see no harm in commenting on this issue.

It is obvious that the defendants would like to know what Mowla wishes from Himself personally so why have they been denied a mulaqat with our beloved Mowla?
Would this not have been an ideal way to resolve the issue?
The defendants would have heard from Mowla Himself what He wishes for them to do, and they would have immediately complied with His wishes.

I therefore wonder why any communication to the defendants prior to the filing of the lawsuits has been by letter/email only. Add to this the fact that our beloved Mowla has always advocated against taking our problems to court, (That is why He created the Arbitration and Conciliation Boards in the first place. As recently as May 2008, during Golden Jubilee darbar in Dhaka Bangladesh, Mowla emphatically - He used the word 'please' twice - requested murids to resolve problems without reverting to litigation), this whole issue stinks like a fish.

Ok, let's think simply.
A lawsuit would only have been filed if the defendants were adamant and completely refused to comply, even after every effort (including a face-to-face mulaqat) had been made to get them to stop their activities. In other words, a lawsuit is the last resort. Are the defendants like this? Evidence does not agree. This issue has been going on since January 2010. The defendants never spoke about it to anybody. Even when they had the letter checked by forensic specialists, they never revealed their findings to anybody and create gossip, but followed protocol and forwarded their findings to the secretariat. It was only until a copy of the lawsuit was leaked out onto the Internet and after the LIF announcement that they finally spoke. This does not indicate that the defendants are so defiant that there was no recourse but to drag them to court.

Therefore I once again come to the point that why have the defendants' efforts to see and speak to Mowla personally, and thereby avoid the whole litigation issue, been thwarted?

You are all intelligent and you will think for yourselves. It is incredible that our beloved Mowla would file a lawsuit against a murid and then through the LIF make announcements in jamatkhanas worldwide, defending this course of action.

Mowla is our Lord and whatever He does we follow and He does not need to defend Himself.

My brothers and sisters, this issue should not be taken lightly. If what I feel is true and the defendants are right, the whole Ismaili leadership will come crashing down. Nobody will ever trust our leaders again. Nobody will ever believe any announcement being made in jamatkhana which to-date we have always blindly trusted as being by the authority and permission of our beloved Imam. Even taliqas and sandeshas will become suspect.

This is indeed a grave situation. Many of us have had scuffles with our leaders. Verbally they have often been caught out in outright lies, taking Mowla's name to gain their own ends and thereby increase their power. Year by year they have made Mowla more and more inaccessible (physically) to the jamat.
But in this situation, if the defendants can prove themselves right, then all boundaries have now been crossed.

We must all pray that our beloved Mowla in His infinite mercy contains this matter and brings it to a smooth conclusion.

Re: Indigo's post "My thoughts"
On June 12th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, Brother Indigo, the situation is very grave: trust will be hard to re-establish. Your thoughts have been expressed very clearly. Thank you.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

leaders of the jamats(LIF)
On May 3rd, 2010 karim m dossani (not verified) says:

Any one of the leader LIF member who has played roll in this game must be removed and should be taken to task immediately, we murids are tired of foolish people who are misguiding the jamats and be stealing mowlas money in the bank by forging signature of hazir imam.we wont to know him immediately

Where is the proof
On May 1st, 2010 Ruksana (not verified) says:

I would happy to know that defendant are right but then it would prove that our leadership (and LIF) are bunch of jokers and I don't think it is that easy to believe ...

1. Defendant should provide proof and evidence that they received instruction in WRITING from Imam on August 15, 1992 in Montreal to publish the firman. If they say that it was verbal instruction then that is not acceptable in the court.

2. Please provide forensic report stating that Imam's signature has been forged. This is issue is now an open case in public so you should shy away from providing this report....

3. If Imam started meeting all the people who dont oblige to his wish then there would long line-up of such people ... Why should Imam leave all his important work and start meeting people like defendants? if this is so easy and possible then tomorrow I will also start publishing firmans and then ask for Imam's mulaqat to clarify things in person. Do you really think that Imam have that much time to see everyone like this?

4. Again I've no interest in picking sides but defendant have to provide all the evidence including that letter from Imam so that others can also verify whether Imam's signature is forged or not ....

* Canada

law suit
On May 3rd, 2010 murid (not verified) says:

i understand from the mr jiwa's defence that he has never recived any letter from prince Amin Mohd,Hazar Imam,or from any leaders than why did they file lawsuit against him,just because he helped mr Tajdin.
murid

* Canada

Response to Ruksana
On May 1st, 2010 Indigo (not verified) says:

With all due respect, I disagree with you.
This case is SERIOUS enough for a mulaqat to be necessary. It would not be frivolous.
Secondly, the case is in court so the proofs will also be provided in court.
Our leaders should have had the decency to request Mowla, fervently request Mowla not to take this matter to court, if it is really Mowla who has initiated this course of action. So the onus falls on the leaders.
Shame on them! They need to take lessons from our leaders of the past who would always try to calm the Imam down whenever He was upset or displeased.
They would always invoke upon His mercy and His infinite patience. The defendants may be in the wrong but our leaders are definitely in the wrong for allowing this matter to escalate to such a degree. But honestly, my heart says, just as the sun is the sun and the moon is the moon, so is our Mowla merciful. He can never take such action against murids who are His children and whom He loves beyond any limits, no matter ignorant, defiant, stubborn the mruids may be (which in this case is not even true)
as the gujrati saying goes
"chhoru kachhoru thay
pan maavtar kamaavtar koi divas na thay"

reponse to ruksana
On May 3rd, 2010 shamsuddin mehri (not verified) says:

this is so beautiful and well said. Mowla dam is merciful and he will forgive all his murids,

why our leaders are so ignorant? what is wrong with them,

i would say just one thing, that the real uneducated and ignorant ppl are our leaders, i wish i could do something to fire them from their position of taking decision based on their own act.

* Canada

Where is the proof
On May 1st, 2010 Observer (not verified) says:

You raise interesting questions and I will add to the possible answers;

1.Canadian courts routinely accept evidence of oral consent. Particularly since the Agakhan did not send out his speeches with a legal disclaimer. Also logic tells me that it will be hard for him to deny that he might have blessed the publishing venture, as he does speak to thousands during his visits. I don't think he would relish the thought of being cross-examined by a Canadian trial lawyer as to his inability to recall or see that book under or over the "mehmani" versus the divine authority attributed to him by his followers.

2. It is possible that the Agakhan's signature on thousands of documents sent out by him, is a fascimile (an embrossment) and that this particular letter's signature may been faded or slightly unreadable (it was an attachment to an email) . Many celebrities routinely authorise their employees to "forge", if you like, their signature. Don't all the Agakhans simply sign "Agakhan"? Anyway, this issue would be cleared as soon as the Agakhan takes the stand and confirms that the signature as his. But if the Agakhan confirms he does authorise others to sign his letters, then it does give credence to the defendent's position that they had legitimate apprehension that it was "really" forged.

3. The way the Agakhan uses his time is very much in the public domain. His personal life, including his marriages, his horses and his philantrophy are well known, A court would however be very curious to know why he would refuse to meet the defendents briefly (at thier expense!) to remove the doubts, particularly if he now seeks the help of the court to convince/stop those defendents. Setting aside your religious sentiments, I hope you see the Agakhan's difficulty? The point is that judges bring down very powerful people..they are rarely impressed by the "busy" schedule of a plaintiff.

4. In Canada,the Defendants have to prove nothing. It is the Agakhan who is suing and he has to demonstrate that he was "harmed" by this book and he could not have given the alleged consent to his loyal followers. In the Inquisitional religious courts of 15th century Spain, it used to be the Defendents who would have to prove thier faith, upon threat of pain. I hear that in the Ismaili religious system, the Defendants have already been tried, convicted and sentenced to shun and disgrace, without thier defence even being heard. The Agakhan condemns the Defendents in his own religious "court" and expects a Canadian judge to do what? do the same? be fair?

I hope this helps to clarify.

* Canada

Hey Ruksana, I am lost here,
On May 1st, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Hey Ruksana,

I am lost here, if the book was presented at the Mehmani, how can you say to Mowla please write down your blessings so in the future I can have a proof if someone sues me, the blessings are given verbaly. Who was the mukhi at this time, This has gone too far now, the leaders have to explain their behaviour, and to communicate with the defendants properly, with respect, those murids are not creasy people and I am sure It can be solved without any more tamasha and within our community.

* Canada

real murids
On May 4th, 2010 Mongolian (not verified) says:

For the past decades, our beloved Hazar Imam worked so hard in building the Ismaili and Muslim foundation and reputation,

Isn't there any "good or real murid" in LIF who can speak of the truth.....

* Canada

response to rukhsana
On May 1st, 2010 indigo (not verified) says:

Naturally, the defendants will have to submit full evidence supporting their intimations against the leadership. But they will have to do so in court if the case proceeds. Both defendants don't strike me as individuals who will make claims without having the necessary evidence.
So we shall have to wait and see.
This issue is VERY SERIOUS. For the first time in history, Imam is suing murids in court. Surely in this case leaders should have requested mowla to grant a mulaqat to the defendants and thereby avoid the lawsuit.
Such a mulaqat would not be frivolous as you intimate.
Once again, I reiterate that as sure as the sun is the sun and the moon is the moon, our Mowla would not go to court for this issue without first talking to the defendants and making His wishes known to them directly.

This whole institution of the lawsuit therefore is very very suspicious. 100% fishy!

With all due respect, Rukhsana, these are just my opinions

* United Kingdom

your are not right - meet , apologise & work together
On May 4th, 2010 London (not verified) says:

Tajdin and Jiwa did not start this lawsuit. Their case, & claims are well argued & reasoned. They dont seem to have made them lightly or without any basis or friviously. Tajdin is asking the court for a full investigation into the forgeires which is a criminal offence and no less serious then claiming that the plaintiff is not the Imam but an imposter - Usurper.. This case has far reaching implications and can become a criminal investigation with all the resulting disclosures to authorities of related announcements, emails,and documents. . The defendants are willing to stop if the Imam 1. confirms that the letters are not forgeries 2 That the Imam personally pre-authorised this lawsuit. 3. Finally that Imam does not desire His farmans to be distributed to Ismailies by Tajdin and Jiwa as they have been doing since 1992. The Leaders involved obviously knew the impact and consequesces of this unprecedented lawsuit of trying to stop them to continue to distribute Farmans to Ismailis (which include material and spritual guidance, instructions, and messages) to his Murids. Delivering, communicating and distributing Farmans to murids goes to the very foundation for Ismailies and and ismailisism. A comprehensive impact & strategy assessment/ paper will have been prepared by the leaders in all aspects and also with the lawyers instructed, LIF, and other leading Ismaili lawyers and scholars BEFORE the lawsuit was filed. The .Imam has said on many occasions that His love for His murids is more than His murids love can can ever be for Him This lawsuit is so very serious and also so very difficult to reason or understand. The key questions are, 1. why the leaders did not clarify & settle their differences as requested 2. Were any letters before the lawsuit from the lawyers sent to the defendants and 3. why was one of the defendants not served. 4. why the defendants were not given the opprtunity to have an audiance (Material) with their Imam before such a historically unprecedented lawsuit. with wider and far reaching implications 5 Why did not the defendants write firstly letters (If they did not) and why did they not seek extension and send a deaft defence and seek an audiance with the imam through the lawyer(Alnaz Jiwa is a Lawyer and you should have made more of an effeort too.. I sincerely hope that the leaders in question will meet and talk with Tajdin and Jiwa, as brothers (and sisters), and jointly seek an audiance with the Imamand to jointly to ask for forgiveness. In London with over 20000 present, from over 63 countries, there was clear guidance, and reminder from the Imam for leaders to share more, and to work together with the Jamat. This was in order to fight for and not against building more trust, and more unity.

* United Arab Emirates

the case
On May 8th, 2010 doctor dolly (not verified) says:

Your patience will give you success. This applies to anyone upon whom calamities befall. The one who exercises patience, to him success is granted by God. The Lord befriends the one who is patient, his Lord loves him very dearly. Noble is the creature who is patient, then in difficult times, the Lord becomes his friend. [Kalame Mowla]

-- Hazrat Ali

* United States

100% right, what a fiasco
On May 1st, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

100% right, what a fiasco from the leaders. I hope that they will be humble and ask for forgiveness to Mowla, to the jamat and to these 2 Murids and their family in the Jamatkhana, otherwise the jamat will never believe them again in the future. What a shame, specially for the person who is on the head of Aiglemont secretariat, what a behaviour. I think it's time to do some ''menage'' at Aiglemont. What kind of image is this to our youngsters, when you serve the Imam you should be humble and grateful to have the opportunity to do the sewa instead of using your power against another Ismaili!!!

Canada

* Canada

YOU AREVERY RIGHT, AGREE
On April 30th, 2010 ABDULMALIK (not verified) says:

YOU AREVERY RIGHT, AGREE 100% LIF SHOULD HAVE MADE A BIG DEAL BY THE ANNOUNCEMENT AT JK, KEEP IT YOURSELF AND RESOLVE IT INSIDE

* Canada

not served?
On April 30th, 2010 AZ (not verified) says:

You claim you were not served (summons from the court?). How is that even possible? If you're not served, than why file a defense?

* United States

you can see by yourself on
On April 30th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

you can see by yourself on the web site of the Federal Court that the main defendant was never served. Why he was not served is an important point. Was he not served so he could not reply? He could just have said he was not served and the lawsuit against him would not have stood. Why he choose to reply while he was not served is his decision, I guess.

http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/node/29739

Les précisions dans votre déclaration cf. la poursuite
On April 29th, 2010 kanize (not verified) says:

786
Merci infiniment d'avoir affiché ces précisions ! On a besoin de faire comprendre aux membres du Jamat qu'aucun Imam ne poursuivrait un enfant spiritiuel en justice : ils n'ont jamais poursuivi leurs ennemis, ni même les assassins des Imams, alors comment Hazer Imam poursuivrait-Il un mureed ????? C'est dommage qu'on puisse être induit en erreur si facilement par les dirigeants. Vos précisions vont, Insh'Allah, éclairer les membres du Jamat.
Bonne continuation, et bonne chance. Puissent tous ceux qui sont impliqués dans cette affaire avoir le haqiqati samaj. Ameen.

* Canada

Comments are allowed on this topic.
On April 29th, 2010 heritage says:

This site is moderated, please keep your comments clean, and they will appear online in a little while.

* Canada

Lawsuit against the Murids of our Imam
On May 1st, 2010 Amin (not verified) says:

This is non-sense. It is the Tariqa Board and the members of the LIF that are pursuing this actions using the Imams name as the Plaintiff in this matter.

I believe this is going to cause of lot of negativism within the Community if this lawsuit is pursued going further.
It would be in the best interest of all the parties to get this arbitrated in our community arbitration and reconciliation boards.

This is a very serious issue in my opinion and will be very damaging to our community, other murids of the imam and the forth-coming generation.

* United States

Reply to Amin's comment
On May 2nd, 2010 Kanize (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, this whole issue can be very damaging to the community. I hope with all my heart that it can be resolved within the
Jamat, perhaps, as you suggest, through the Conciliation and Arbitration Board.

We need to pray really hard for an amicable resolution of this matter and for haqiqati samaj for all those who are involved,
as well as the rest of us...

Mowla Bapa is going to feel so terrible when He finds out "dunyabaanè" (in a worldly way)...

What is very disappointing is that hardly any member of the Jamat in my country seems to realize or to know that Hazer Imam would never sue a mureed because of the bayyat, He would first have to excommunicate him; we don't seem to have a proper grounding in the tenets of the faith, that is really scary. Where are we heading???

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Letters
On April 30th, 2010 Samir Noorali (not verified) says:

What was communicated?

Since the issue revolves around the communications made between both parties then it would make sense to let the public know exactly what was communicated in those letters and the telephone call made by Shafiq Sachedina. Since the letters were fake and the phone call was threatening, kindly give us an understanding as to what specifically said so that we can understand your point of view.

Sincerely,

Samir Noorali

* Canada

It is high time that the
On May 1st, 2010 NN (not verified) says:

It is high time that the community wakes up to the myth, that everything is orchestrated by the Imam or in the name of the Imam. I saw it first hand early in the 1980's that UNFORTUNATELY, the Imam is surrounded by a CABAL of egocentric greedy power hungry schmucks, who mislead the community and instill fear mongering.

* United States

Comment
On April 29th, 2010 Sarghalta (not verified) says:

Dear brother and sister PLEASE DO NOT BRING THIS DISCUSSION TO INTERNET. DO IT VERY CLOSELY. IN THE WAY YOU ARE DOING THIS ARGUMENT YOU WILL DAMAGE MANY PEOPLES BELIEF ON THEIR FAITH AND ON THEIR IMAM. PLEAS DO NOT DO THIS!

Your spiritual brother from Tajikistan

* Tajikistan

Internet Discussion
On April 30th, 2010 Observer (not verified) says:

It is too late to try to control the Internet. In JK, it is possible that we have only controlled information flowing in one direction only. But Aiglemont has chosen the the Canadian courts to enforce thier decree. Once that happened, it is upto the courts and the public.

In Tajikstan and other dictatorships, it may be possible to have someone "punished" in private but in Canada, it is now open to the entire public to discuss what Ismailis worship and how. The matters raised in the Defence are very serious, including fraud, death threats and "divine" authority. It seems only an open and somewhat embarrassing discussion will help to modernise and liberate the Khojas from thier medieval beliefs.

It should be recalled that when $100m Colgate fraud was committed against the Jamat, Aiglemont not only fail to protect them in first place (as any well-run modern administration would have done) but instead blamed the poor befuddled believers who had put their money behind thier faith, as been "greedy". No punishment or even admonition of the Aiglemont-appointed perpetrators was initiated. There was deafening silence and the official line was "Mowla will punish them thorough his divine powers". However, as soon as Mr. Jiwa needed to be corrected, Aiglemont needs high-priced Canadian lawyers to state its case and a lay judge to determine the results!

How ironic

* Canada

I AGREE WITH YOU 100
On April 30th, 2010 abdulmalik (not verified) says:

I AGREE WITH YOU 100 PERCENT

* Canada

forged signature of hazar imam
On April 30th, 2010 karim m dossani (not verified) says:

any person who has forged the signature should be taken to task, be it at Secretariat or a leader it shows that they are stupid and selfish and may be authorizing things that hazar imam has not approved.

Who is to be blamed for this mess
On May 1st, 2010 AmarS (not verified) says:

I hope those leaders who are reading this, take count of what they have done. If they feel they are respected, they are mistaken.

Imam has dedicated his life to us, the Ummah and poor people around the world. We enjoy our lives because of the fact that our Imam has worked hard and is continuing to work hard so that we, and the people around the world can have better lives. Our Imam works day and night, his children and his brother also work for the betterment of our lives. We don't deserve this. Ismailis are spoiled brats!

Imam has said he loves us more than we can ever love him, and he has proved that to us on many, many occasions.

I hope Jiwa and Tajdin will surrender. Both of them, I am told, are devoted Ismailis. They have made their point. They have exposed the leaders who must be feeling like little ants.

Our Beloved Imam and his family have plenty on their plates. Imam does not need this headache. Please, please for the sake of Imam, give up. Believe me leaders will not gloat! If they have any shame left, they will hate themselves. You guys have nothing to lose.

I see lot of heads rolling after this fiasco.

* United States

Reply to AmarS
On May 2nd, 2010 kanize (not verified) says:

786
It must not be forgotten that we are all members of the same Jamat, we have all pledged bayyat to Mowla Bapa, we are all brothers and sisters, even of those who are doing wrong, whoever they may be (they too are mureeds of the Imam). Mowla Bapa is very sad when we do not behave respectfully towards other members of the Jamat. We should be grateful for the fact that we are not the wrong doers, at the moment at least (may we never be that, amin).

It would be really good if all of us could pray for haqiqati samaj of all those involved (and us too), for a proper resolution of this whole issue, in a way that Mowla Bapa's reputation is not tarnished, in a way that the damage re: trust towards the leadership is minimal, and simply, in the way that Mowla Bapa would like it to be resolved. Prayers are powerful, but often underestimated, alas.

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Reply to Kanize
On May 3rd, 2010 AmarS (not verified) says:

Mowla Ali Madad, Kanize. I agree with you. I don't know if you have ever experienced injustice at the hands of leaders, I have. I have forgiven them and left to Mowla to deal with them. My children have suffered too at the hands of unjust leaders. Our faith in Mowla has brought us through. Unlike me, my children have not forgiven these ruthless leaders.

As for the prayers, of course we are praying. Hopefully, it would be resolved peacefully. Both the defendants have said they have complete faith in Mowla and they would abide by Mowla's wishes. How this will come about is a mystery, only Mowla knows.

Mowla is most forgiving. I believe we will all have a lesson to learn from the outcome of this case. I just wish this was resolved internally, and Imam did not have to go through with this fiasco! He has much better things to do.

* United States

Re: AmarS Reply to Kanize (of May 3)
On June 13th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ya Aly madad, AmarS. May your children be able to ask Mowla Bapa to help them forget the injustice they suffered...
Yes, AmarS, I too have been ill treated by the leadership, about 10 years ago, for over an entire year... It was most painful, AmarS. Shukhar Mowla, the next leadership rectified everything. I am so glad it is all behind now...

We are now in June, and this case still seems as far away from being resolved as it seemed in May...What will happen, my oh my...The whole thing is so terrible. The one thing I am afraid of is that in the end, truth will not triumph because this is Kal jug, and wrong doers will be spared, and the victims will not find solace...At least in this life time...
Madad, Mowla, madad, dayaa, Mowla, dayaa.

* Canada

I doubt the Law Firm is wrong...
On May 1st, 2010 I doubt that LIF is behind this (not verified) says:

I doubt that a well known and respected law firm like Oglivy Renault would take on a case without confirming that the lawsuit is filed by the actual plaintfill - especially a world renowned individual like the Aga Khan.

* Canada

It is a respected lawfirm,
On May 2nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

It is a respected lawfirm, no doubt. At this time they did not need any confirmation from the plaintiff and could act on instruction from someone close to any of the institution or a spokesperson.

When the time comes for them to verify, they will do it. They will have to look closely at the signature on the affidavit and confirm with the Imam in person.

In a case of forgery, it is easy for any serious person or law firm or institution to be misled because in daily life none of us expect that criminal offenses would be committed especially by someone in position of authority misusing Imam's name.

It is rather hard to believe
On May 4th, 2010 Doctor Dolly (not verified) says:

It is rather hard to believe that a jamati leader can file a law suit against a murid without Mawla's permission in his name and make the LIF which is a group of highly credible selected Jamati leaders from worlwide to agree to this kind of act.And make big announcement in Jamatkhanas worldwide ( where Mawla Is ever present spiritually)!
To sue a murid is a big action, I dont' think any one would even imagine he could pull it off without Hazar Imam knowing (in a Dunyavi manner). And Hazar Imam is always on top of all the issues and he is fairly strict in his dealings with the serious work. It is very hard to digest that this is a fraud and someone would dare to forge Mawla's signature!

Mawla is" All knowing" he knows everything.He is most merciful as well!
I am certain of a very favorable outcome for all deserving individuals.
This kind of event happens for a reason.
There is always a big lesson to be learnt from it.

* United States

LIF annnouncement
On May 5th, 2010 Sadrudin (not verified) says:

The announcement from LIF prior to last one for this subject matter was clear that LIF will initiate the Law suit against individuals involved. So there is no dispute that this law suit is initiated by LIF. To initiate the law suit, no firm need actual release letter or something else in this regard. Attorney usually care about their fees and that agreement for that. Does not matter who signs it.

Under the banner of Jamati unity these leadership will go any length and they will use HI's name.

HI is looking for pluralistic community and our institution seeks unification and busy galvanizing the entire Ismaili community as a one piece of metal.

Regarding leadership and appointments:
Usually leaderships are chosen and appointed on the basis their ability to move forward the community with iron fist. This present case is an example.

Example of failure Leadership:
If you study Fatimid time, Imamt lost kingdom because of failure caused by appointed leaders who mislead the Imam.

After about a year of resistance, the garrisons of Gird Kuh and Lamasser were finally overwhelmed by the Mongols Thousands of Ismaili men were massacred and many women and children were sold into slavery. The Mongol commander is said to have rounded up about 80 thousand Ismailis in Quhistan on the pretext of a general meeting, and massacred them. Orders were given to have the entire family of Imam Ruknud-Din Khair Shah, including the babies, slaughtered. Our beloved Imam Ruknud-din Shah was beheaded due to the leadership at that time.

Regarding this lawsuit:
The result is something better will result. One thing is clear that LIF already announced that they will print the Firman books and make it available to JK. May HI, may ask these defendants to take the leadership role in execution of printing these books.

So please work on the solution so that everyone keep their head high.

* United States

If the leaders wanted to
On May 9th, 2010 murid (not verified) says:

If the leaders wanted to print the farmans they should have done it for golden jublee.I think mr tajdin has done a great job writting this book,if our imam agrees than i think every family should buy it.

* Canada

This is actually kind of funny
On May 8th, 2010 S (not verified) says:

You have to understand that this will be resolved without complications. Hazar Imam is well-connected. The ismaili community does not have to worry at all. I just hate that hazar imam has to waste his time on this. Besides that we have nothing to worry about. Our Imam is very powerful. He has built an empire that we havent seen all of. Although Hazar Imam is known as Prince Karim Aga Khan, we know that Hazar Imam is a King. He will be okay. I hate when Hazar Imam's time is wasted.

* Pakistan

S is absolutely right!
On May 8th, 2010 xaf (not verified) says:

Thinking about this issue, the only conclusion I can reach is that our esteemed leaders have, for reasons best known to themselves, exaggerated this issue, made the defendants out to be real ogres, some kind of anti ismaili activists, and presented the issue to hazar Imam.

"Mowla ni leela no bhed koi na jaane"

Knowing full well the truth, hazar Imam must have given the leaders the go-ahead to handle the (exaggerated) situation.
And this is how they have handled it.

We wonder, in a physical sense, with all of hazar Imam's worldwide projects going on, don't the leaders have enough on their plates?
How can they find the time to seek out and punish an individual who is doing the harmless yet noble task of distributing farmans?
Even if they have free time, should this not be used by the leaders to search out and bring to hazar Imam's attention genuine cases of poverty and crisis in the world, where Mowla's help is really needed?

Or else, if they have free time, can they not spend this on trying to glorify the Imam's name worldwide? For example, why can't they spend their time nominating the Imam for the Nobel Prize??
It is expected of leaders to help expand the Imam's philanthropic activities, and not waste His time on crucifiction of well-intending murids such as the defendants.

But, this is too much to hope from our leaders, if our holy Pirs are to be believed: "dhonga to ene ene haare vase, te to loote Sahebji nu dhyaan"

* United Kingdom

Re: XAF's reply to S
On June 13th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
The ginan quotation in your last paragraph is so to the point, so true, brother (?) XAF. Touché !!
Lest us be grateful that we are not one of those "Dhonga". Shukhar Mowla.

* Canada

Reply to a Pakistani Ismaili
On May 8th, 2010 Saqib Canada (not verified) says:

Our Imam is urging the rule of Intellect instead of power. He many times said in his Farman that the intellect is the other side of Din. But in this case we have not seen the rule of intellect. What is the rule and function of Reconciliation and Arbitration Board? What would be the expect of Jamats from this board? whether this step is not an example for the Jamats to refer their disputes to the official courts? The responsible people of this board exaggeratedly says the significant rule of it in JK very ofen. I think afterward the rule of it will come under question. About the the controversial book of Farman, as I have read it very carefully there is not a single word more or less its very authentic. In my opinion this book is a great service to the younger generations because due to pressure of work and study they have not enough time to go to JK. Even Imam himself with the realizing of this shortage and pressure allows us to serve a few minute and calling the name of Allah ,prophet and Imams. On the other hand the JK is not a library as Tariqah Board foolishly says anyone to read Imam's Farman go to JK. It's like that the Muslims who should go to mosque to read out Holy Quran.

I think this great job has been instigated ITREB to persuaded LIF to announced in Jk the lawsuit. Because as we have seen the ITREB is incapable to did such a great job, during in 50 years of our Imam's Imamat it just printed some booklets of Dua nothing else. The other critical issue is the longitude term of leadership office because the longitude tenure of an office will create selfishness.egotistic and obstinacy in person .

According our Imam's Farman politics must not be mixed with religion. Hopefully, the leadership make themselves away from politics in religion affairs and allow jamat to reach the Imam and submit its problem to him directly, I hope they understand the sensibility and reality of our time. Because the progress of science there have been a lot of questions and critics on religion the most values of it came under question, we should be very cautious in this matter.

The Leadership has lost their ethical right
On May 9th, 2010 Shujaa Gharib (not verified) says:

What is clear from this affair is that the jamaat has lost any trust in the leadership of some very close individuals to the Imam. it is time for the Imam to get rid of these people. Change is needed. you cannot allow the same people to stay in such high and influencial positions for too long. It gets into their head. most importantly, once touched by the divine, they begin to consider themselves 'divine'. Their usual excuse is that Hazir Imam does not have time. This is an excuse to keep the Imam away from the jamaat. The Imam would always have time for his murids. That is the pillar of our faith.

* United Kingdom

The leadership has lost their ethical right
On May 12th, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

Well said!!!

By the way, the Imam is coming May 28 in Canada, How Mr Manji will behave, he is part of the LIF who read the announcement last time. How he will be able to look to the Iman, he is part of this mess!!! I hope that this mess will be solved before the arriving of MHI. Does ogilvy know that Mowla will be here. They asked for an extra 2 weeks, in 2 weeks Mowla Himself will be in Toronto, by the way do you believe this internet problem. My foot!!! The leaders have lost all the credibility...

* Canada

I don't think Ogilvy has the
On May 12th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

I don't think Ogilvy has the right information.It is apparent from the last article in the Law Times that they are not aware that Hazar Imam will be in Toronto soon. They have also not said that Hazar Imam himself gave them the instructions, they said they are in touch with Sachedina.

Also in their request for extension, they mentioned they had a hard time communicating with Paris because of the time difference but in reality Hazar Imam was not in Paris during that period, he was in Boston.

Motion
On May 13th, 2010 Good governamce (not verified) says:

It would be of interest for many if the motion to extend is also available. This communication can be by telephone and if the defendants were invited to fly anywhere by the Imam will they refuse? Not by what they say in their defence.

* United Kingdom

motion
On May 13th, 2010 taras (not verified) says:

remember Hazrats sword was two edged

* United Kingdom


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