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C. Comments by visitors of ismaili.net/heritage

Click Here for All Comments on the Copyright Lawsuit Case by visitors of ismaili.net/heritage


The following is a snapshot from 2010/12/29 AM of all the comments on the Lawsuit.

Are Imam's annotations shared ?
On December 28th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Soulmate on vancouverite says on December 27, 2010 - In his letter dated November 1, 1990 addressed to Prothonotary Tabib Alnaz Jiwa had stated that His Highness had told them; “He annotates His Farmans” and that the annotated Farmans could be produced to them if they wanted them. But Nagib Tajdin and Alnaz Jiwa have produced and distributed the Farmans that were not annotated by the Imam. Where did they get that authority to produce and distribute Farmans that were not annotated by the Imam?

BLOGLAW RESPONSE December 28, 2010 -
Annotating means explanatory notes which Imam makes-gives on some Farmans for Leaders to understand and to share with the Jamat. I dont recall any Farman which is read in JK and there is an explanation based on Imam’s annotations. Have you ?

Imam does not edit Farmans which means Imam does not change them after they are delivered. In any event the authenticity or integrity of Farmans in the book have not been challenged in the lawsuit.

* United Kingdom

No succession Planning ?
On December 29th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I have never heard any Farmans being read in JK, for example during GJ, followed by Imam's explanatory notes on that Farman. The London farman was edited. Why would Imam then say again in Singapore that Leaders are not sharing his guidance his with the Jamat.

If Leaders in question are not sharing Imam's guidance, it follows that Jamat and the leadership generally are not aware and are receiving edited (Changed - different) versions of Imam's guidance generally.

Which Top Leaders are responsible. DJI and the ITREB Global HQ.They are both controlled and managed by Dr SS. I am also amazed that M Keshavjee left as global head of ITREB over 6 months ago, and has not been replaced so far. Dr SS (DJI) is effective interim Head of ITREB and also head of DJI. MK was a governor and Professor Arkhoon died. We now have 2 IIS governors who have not been replaced. Dr SS, is also a Governor of IIS and its "effective" Head.

According to Imam's directives and institutional policies, succession planning is a critical priority and has been ongoing for the last 9 plus years. The question is;

1 Dr SS cant find the right person/s to replace and or strengthen capacity or
2 Dr SS does not want to find them, or
3 Dr SS can't find those who will help him blindly to maintain the status quo ?

There are excellent Ismaili professional available, both voluntary and non voluntary.

* United Kingdom

Soulmate's garbage in and out!!!
On December 28th, 2010 Alnaz J (not verified) says:

Soulmate has questioned the authorization of publishing unannotated farmans. Soulmate does NOT have the ability, capacity nor the wisdom required to analyze these things. It is as if he comes across a pregnant woman and questions whether or not she is a virgin. It betrays his gross lack of wisdom, but is it surprising?

The Imam's offer speaks volumes. No doubt about that.

It is like he is giving us annotated farmans (farmans along with his thought process, never before released to anyone, to my knowledge, and the offer is made to us. I am still in disbelief and awed by the offer, of course when I meet him I will ask for these farmans.

He would never make this offer to us IF he considered as his enemies or if he has really himself written the letters, or affirmation, or brought the claim against us.

Although his leaders are accusing us of theft, the imam is responding by offering us keys and security code to his safe.

Offering us the annotated version of the farmans is so huge, but just as a billion muslims who memorize like puppets the whole Quran but cannot 'see' ayats re the present imam.

Similarly soulmates and his chamchas are blind, their inner eyes sealed while we are offered by the Imam his annotated farmans, and soulmate is concerned about authorization of the farmans - a person has graduated as a heart surgeon from Harvard, and soulmate is wondering if that heart surgeon has his high school diploma. Hmmm, the question itself betrays his real worth - garbage in garbage out.

* Canada

Bloglaw has asked this to be
On December 29th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Bloglaw has asked this to be posted as he has some spam filter issue:

Comment 1
September in Vancouverite says : Bloglaw, Without being entirely certain of how firmans are authorized, once again, It would reckless and unlike MHI to leave it to fallible individuals to put together his Firmans without reviewing them before distribution.

Reply bloglaw :

If you do not know you should feel free to seek information from our Leadership. Maybe you have. When Imam delivers a Farman or a speech to the Jamat or Leaders. There are 2+ recorders attached to the mike system. There is also an independent recording just in case. Then immediately afterwards they are transcribed. With latest technology, during GJ, it is instantaneous. A transcribed copy is handed to Dr SS, Head of ITREB and to MHI (who may or may not annotate or give additional guidance for the Leaders to share with the Jamat). Then usually that day or asap the Farman is read in JK’s .(without the annotations or the related guidance). The Farman is then supposed to be available globally and in all JK’s including in remote locations for Jamat to access and read too (with the annotations)

However If only some excerpts of Farmans or speeches are to be a part of a publication then of course they need to be reviewed for context clarity and messages etc first by IIS. then ITREB and then by MHI. This is what Dr SS may have been referring to when he said IIS are in the process of printing Farmans which has been agreed by MHI in principle.

Comment No 2

Haji in vancouverite says –“Bloglaw, any Imamat publication (Farmans) that has not been approved by H.H. The Aga Khan and officially distributed by the Imamat Institutions, are NOT VALID, ……… who the hell is NT to tell the ismailies world-wide that his (illegal) published books are truly authentic. He can take his (illegal) books to his grave, but spare us ismailies, …. by pretending that you are looking after the originality of the Ismaili Faith. We DON’T NEED YOU OR YOUR GROUP. We have Hazar Imam to take care of it. Can you not get this message through your head!!! Or are you truly a dummkopf”

Reply by bloglaw

Imam (who you confirm is the real Plaintiff), says all Farmans are available in all JK’s including in remote locations (with his annotations ?). However the truth is they are still not available ? The Leader who should make them available is DR SS as head of DJI (and now also ITREB)

Therefore, In your opinion and to be fair does ” WE DONT NEED YOU OR YOUR GROUP”" apply to DR SS too? J.

NT, Imam and DR SS are all effectively agreeing Farmans in the book are authentic because they are not challenging their authenticity or integrity in this lawsuit !

Also Haji, with respect, Farmans are valid immediately as they are Delivered by MHI. They are not Valid after they are edited by Leaders, or when published - read in JK. Imam in most Farmans says we must take with us Imam’s blessings and messages to our Families and to our Jamats. So should we wait for (edited) Farmans before we give Mubaraki and we share Imam’s Farman with love and happiness Of course we don’t and should not wait..

@Alnaz J
On December 28th, 2010 Another Ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

Excellent Reply.

Annotate means ....
On December 29th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Soulmate says : Bloglaw: I knew well in advance that you will land in quicksand and there will be no escape for you. The Imam Himself says that He annotates His Farmans but you go off on a tangent saying that is not so. The Imam spells it out in the court documents that He edits His Farmans and His edited Farmans superced the Oral Farmans but you say that He does not edit His Farmans. So what you are really saying is that the Imam is wrong and you are right; correct? Sorry, I can not ask you to take a hike because you have landed in quick sand; so stay there!

Reply by bloglaw

Hello ! – Please read the meaning and what Imam means when Imam personally said on 15 Oct that Imam “annotates”, (which is totally different to the meaning of “Edits”)

ANNOTATE – verb Definition: WRITE EXPLANATORY NOTES – EXPLANATION – MAKE A STATEMENT OF OPINION

EDIT – verb REWRITE, CHANGE, REFINE CENSOR, ABRIDGE

Soulmate - I am afraid you have proved beyond any reasonable doubt that Alnaz J is right.

* United Kingdom

SEEK KNOWLEDGE IS AN ACT OF FAITH
On December 27th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

In the last 5 years MHI has specifically said the following : That our Tariqah is firstly that of peace and secondly of wisdom & knowledge. We must seek and not reject knowledge or wisdom. They are a part of our daily lives. We must seek knowledge for good purposes and use it for benefit of all. We must share knowledge amongst ourselves. Quran says we must seek knowledge to also better understand creation. A Hadith which says seek knowledge even if it is in China (i.e. Far or difficult to access)

mhi SAYS We must seek to better serve people. searching for knowledge in our Tariqah is a reflection of our faith. If you seek knowledge and use it properly, it is an act of faith (MHI has reassured us). we are all seeking and sharing knowledge and in doing so we are following Imam's guidance.Imam says knowledge was different 50 yeas ago and has expanded and is expanding quickly and enormously. Imam says we also need to know how to use and manage knowledge. Imam has also said that Our institutions and Leaders are there to serve the Jamat and to help us to know and to understand. Imam also said in 2008, we must indulge (seek share and discuss) in knowledge and use it for good purposes. (2005 and 2008).

Your Mukhi Saheb and ITREB will and should be very happy to share these Farmans with any murid who is interested, and tto help them understand and know what they know not.

So there is every reason to for us all to seek and share knowledge and wisdom. (Not seeking knowledge is rejecting knowledge and wisdom)

* United Kingdom

"Better judgment will remove smallness and inequitable complex"
On December 28th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, BLOGLAW! You have mentioned my name somewhere on your blog but I do not see any blog directly addressed to me! However, we cannot look for what is not meant to be seeking out! All contributors are independent and will stress their independence to express their thoughts. Thus, the rationality can only sustain the right from wrong! As far as the Ismaili Muslims Institution is concerned, I assume their autonomy is dependent on the Ismaili Muslims Tariquah. Consequently, the Ismaili Muslims are peaceful and humanitarian. Regarding “knowledge and wisdom,” it grows with experience. This is the raison d’être for us to motivate ourselves voluntarily. These honorary services can take us to the remote part of the world to understand how the humanity have survived where modern technology and modern means of survival are not available! So when our religious conviction is sincerely applied; it will help us to better ourselves to share the joy of our know-how and experience! I do not imagine, anybody would, willingly deny somebody the benefits of knowledge and wisdom. By delegating sincerely your know-how and experience, the burden of any undertaking is shared with better judgment, thus removing smallness and inequitable complex! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

@ Shivji
On December 29th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Reason you did not see my comment is Editor of Vancouverite did not post it. He does not post all which is understandable.

For example he also said he has spoken to me. I responded and said that we have never spoken..We had agreed in an email exchange that we should speak and discuss some 6 months ago but did not.. Maybe you are mistaking me with another conversation

* United Kingdom

SEEK THAT WHICH YOU KNOW NOT
On December 27th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

@Seeker – I agree 100% we should pray and we must also also pray for hakikati Samaj (understanding - wisdom). The Quran and Hazar Imam guides and teaches us to seek knowledge of that which we know not.

In so doing, Hazar Imam has blessed us with Farmans, Institutions, a constitution and specific directions. Therefore when you are concerned and uncertain (as you are). And if you wish to understand and know the truth, then you should seek information or clarity of that which you know not.

Firstly by reading the documents available. Then seek to learn from your Mukhi Saheban’s, ITREB and or the National Council. In your case I feel it may help you to read the directives I have summarized in an earlier post and the Farman I quoted in my open letter to Dr Sachedina (posted earlier. Please feel free and comfortable in quoting them if you need to and clarify them too.

In sincerely seeking information we are not questioning MHI or the leaders. We are in fact following Imam's guidance. Also when you speak to them, you will be also assured that you have the right which Imam has granted to write and submit your Mehmani (Arji) to Hazar Imam. A relevant verse in the Quran is stated below for you to consider too (All 3 translations)

Quran
2:151 (Asad) Even as We have sent unto you an apostle from among yourselves to convey unto you Our messages, and to cause you to grow in purity, and to impart unto you revelation and wisdom, and to teach you that which you knew not
2:151 (Y. Ali) A similar (favour have ye already received) in that We have sent among you an Messenger of your own, rehearsing to you Our Signs, and sanctifying you, and instructing you in Scripture and Wisdom, and in new knowledge.
2:151 (Picktall) Even as We have sent unto you a messenger from among you, who reciteth unto you Our revelations and causeth you to grow, and teacheth you the Scripture and wisdom, and teacheth you that which ye knew not.'

Finally I pray that you will have success in your search both materially and spiritually Ameen.

* United Kingdom

@Bloglaw
On December 27th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Bloglaw. I fully agree with your para. 4, but our Jamat has been brainwashed from the beginning that we are not to question, and I think that the new generation will not accept this. I remember when I was discussing this lawsuit with my relatives, one of them opposed, saying that we should not discuss anything about Hazar Imam. That is the mentality of lot of our Jamati members, I suppose our missionaries have put in the minds of the Jamat that it is "paap" to question. Thank you.

* Canada

It is up to all of us
On December 27th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

It is up to all of us parents, BUI teachers, leaders, al waezeens, Mukhis friends brothers and sisters to help in ensuring that all of us feel comfortable in seeking information knowing that we will be welcomed and we will receive the information and knowledge we are seeking and that we know not.

This forum and lawsuit has been a start. Any Murid who cannot get information and answers they are seeking, will I hope feel comfortable using this forum, and they can be assured that we will help our brothers and sisters.

Yasmin you are right about the present culture which I hope will change sooner rather than later, and there will be an "effective" institutional forum

With Ya Ali Madad

* United Kingdom

Change!!
On December 27th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

MHI in 1986 during USA visit said that many changes, changes more than we could imagine will come to the organization of our jamat, and then said, the jamats thinking proceeds must change. MHI then in Gilgit 1987 march explained the changed thinking process we must go through.

Our jamats and leaders have still not got what MHI wanted us to achieve after expressing it about 23 years ago.

Pity isn't it?

* Canada

I think there has been
On December 28th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I think there has been change in the last 23 years in the demographic and material dynamics of the Jamat which has moved and is organically growing in numbers, by half a million to 1 million a year

if we take the 15 million figure which over the last 10 years is the same figure we hear and in our official websites and communication. if we take 15 million and average family of even 5 , and say 2 children per family added and taking away children under 25, we are looking at an organic addition of well over half a million a year. That is excluding Tajikistan and Afghanistan Jamat numbers in the last 10 years. These numbers and growth is bigger than many countries.

I agree this lawsuit has highlighted serious gaps of the ground realities, which need to be addressed. We must take comfort in that and knowing Imam knows and knows best. Therefore we can also look forward to change for the better which will take time and we must be patient and supportive.

* United Kingdom

More ? OR More of the same !
On December 28th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I did not think of the numbers. before today. Thank you Alibhai and Yasmin whose comment made me reflect on this.

Imagine we therefore will have today over 6 million children in BUI globally and over half a milllion added annually. Wow !. (Assuming access is 90%+)

What a challenge ! Imam has recently signed global agreements with Baclaureate and given the top priority Imam to BUI and education over the last 20 years.

There have been reports and strategies for BUI with a projection of outcomes annually over the last decade. They key for successfully implementation is an effective bridge between BUI and the secular (Din and Dunya) and of embracing a plural culture where we encourage critical enquiry and educate into and not away from creativity. (Excellent 15 minute video of what I mean which you will enjoy http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html - for those more interested also see the lastest from him in May 2010)

Without a tranformative change this cannot be successfully implemented. The ITREB global secretariat has been without an effective full time replacement of the global head of ITREB, for some 6 months so far. I assume Dr SS is overseeing this transition, as they report to him..There must be a good reason for the delay as Imam's directives are clear on succession planning and pre-emption.

If there is no or little peripheral evolutionary or organic change, then in 10 years time we will have more of the same and a continuation of the widening gap.The key is the successful implementation of Imam's Farmans, directions and vision for the Jamat.

* United Kingdom

Supporting the Truth
On December 25th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Is it not inappropriate not to support a person or persons or a group who is on the side of the truth and who have been wronged by others? The above question I posed to my friend who few days back asked me as to why I am supporting the defendants. My considered opinion is that by supporting them even with kind words help them a lot to remain steadfast on high moral ground and the right steps they have taken.

In reality, this way we are not supporting person or persons but the truth, the truth which we firmly believe is on their side. It is the duty, therefore, of every person to extend such support if he has the ability to do so. Participation and discussion in a civilized manner do provide synergic positive effect, provided such discussions remain issue based rather than persons specific. When many persons participate on an issue from different angles and different perspectives with positive attitude, the outcome at the end is bound to be more natural and more stable, and hence, it will have a long lasting positive impact. On the other hand, restricting and impending meaningful discussions is bound to generate suspicions, mistrust and confusion. The end result: more complications and more chaos.

Each intelligent murid must take a stance
On December 26th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I agree. It is important to take a stand in matters of truth and untruth.
Also it is not good to sway here and there and drum on two sides and pretending one is a diplomat and try to keep one feet here and second in another , lest 1 drowns he is safe? Excerpts of ISMS 's firman supports this: Kalame Imame mubin part 1 page 83, firman#32( Ismailia association for India Publication) Jangbar 4th july 1899:
"Make sure you protect your faith like a precious jewel. If you do not there is a very good chance someone can steal it from you. If you have unsecured faith , any one will move it away and you will be the loser .

Also in this faith(Din) you must have one color only. Do not sway here and there. A two color person (double faced hypocrite) will go here and there.If a person does not believe in what we do but believes in the other is better than someone with two colors i.e. a 2 faced hypocrite. You must not be on both sides. Stick to one that is truth which is our Din."

* United States

@Alibhai Jiwani
On December 26th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

AND - If anyone is uncertain or confused, then they should be be honest to themselves and seek more information by reading and asking on this forum or from Dr SS, MM or their national leaders.

* United Kingdom

@Kasamali (Dec. 25th)
On December 25th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed. Not to support the truth, brother Kasamali, is equivalent to support wrong/evil/untruth: in this matter, there cannot be a neutral position, it cannot be gray instead of black or white. In this matter (= the lawsuit), those who are not on the side of truth, are simply unaware (or do not want to know or believe) that no Imam would ever go against the bayyat He has accepted from a mureed and thus no Imam would sue a mureed. It is because this very simple, yet so fundamental, tenet of the faith is not taken into consideration that the jamat seems divided...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

We can't decide what He can and Cannot do
On December 26th, 2010 Seeker (not verified) says:

I feel that I am sitting on the fence in this regard not because I have any less faith.

On one hand, as a mureed, I believe that we cannot and should not decide what Mowla can or cannot do. Who are we to bind the Aql-e-qul with our imperfect aql/wisdom? I believe MHI can do whatever he wishes and it up to us to reconcile our faith to his actions, not the other way around.

On the other hand, given MHI's recent wish to build strong institutions and leadership, I find myself duty bound to respect his institutions and leaders. The individuals may be imperfect or have flaws but the fact that my mowla has appointed them, I should say Ameen. And until MHI (not us) decides otherwise, I feel I should respect his trust in the individuals he has appointed.

Any side I take, I will be disappointing him one way or the other. Although this appears to be a conundrum but more I think about it I am compelled that the best thing for me to do is to keep silent and pray for his mercy on all of us.

* Canada

Reminds me also of MSMS and
On December 27th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Reminds me also of MSMS and his memoirs. MSMS said that we must seek to manage and guide change to suit our desires. We must then desire the outcome rather than try then to suit the outcome to our desires in seeking to manage and guide that change/event. (pre 1967)

In managing and guiding change, we need to seek knowledge and understand. In order to seek knowledge and understanding we need to "indulge""\ in knowledge (MHI 2008).

* United Kingdom

@Seeker
On December 26th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

If one really cares , one must seek the "Knowledge". That is study the entire case with open mind and then use your own intellect to decide what do you believe. If still undecided seek in your "prayers" right direction . You will find the answer since you sound like a sincere believer in search of truth.
Mawla will guide you.

* United States

Spreading Facts or Fiction
On December 25th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Nightmare in Vancouverite says “…. Alnaz Jiwa failed to confess that Nagib Tajdin has invented some excerpts of Farmans in the Infringement Material. Alnaz Jiwa’s ilm-net (nicknamed as satan’s net) had produced proof in this regards. … Bloglaw do you want a copy of this transcript ? …… Alnaz Jiwa had stated that “Mr. Manji [President of Council for Canada] insisted that the web sites cause a lot of problems and confusion in the Jamats, His Highness responded to him saying, “it would be nice if we spoke with one voice, why cannot you work together?”. Factual evidence points to the contrary: …. Notwithstanding the lies of Alnaz Jiwa, every murid of the Imam-of-the-Time, should forever stop visiting Nagib Tajdin’s website.

Bloglaw reply - If you have a copy of what Alnaz has stated personally, I would be certainly be interested in reading it, and so would many others. The fact is Alnaz was not and has not been contacted by the Leaders nor was that letter from MHI addressed to him.

I would also be interested in the factual evidence you say you have of what Imam said on 15th October 2010 you say - "His Highness responded to him saying it would be nice if we spoke with one voice, why cannot you work together?”. Factual evidence points to the contrary.." I would also be interested in the factual evidence you say you have that Nagib you say "has invented some excerpts of Farmans in the Infringement Material" the contrary.."

On 15th Oct 2010, Imam did not ask Nagib to stop his website. There has never been any LIF announcement regarding that website. So why should Ismaili's not continue to visit a website which has a wonderful wealth of resources available free of cost. Dr SS & MM would obviously like to stop that website.

Even if a website is publishing something against Ismailies, why should we not visit that website to learn and understand.Imam and IIS encourages us to seek share and learn so that we can lead and to do so we must understand and respect and be tolerent of all points of views. I suggest you read Imam’s speech on 15 October and visit the website of the Pluralism Centre and read the objectives and goals.

* United Kingdom

Vancouverite misleading as usual.
On December 25th, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

I can see that Vancouverite is having Nightmare about Imam accepting that every lucky person that has the Golden Edition Farmans keeps it :-)

Bloglaw has quoted Vancouverite saying "Alnaz Jiwa failed to confess that Nagib Tajdin has invented some excerpts of Farmans in the Infringement Material."

Well the answer is simple, The Imam having accepted that everyone can keep the book of Farman, who are these people questioning his Wisdom and saying there is invented content in the Farman Book accepted by the Imam Himself?

Can they not understand that by criticizing the Farmans, they have themselves alienated their own right [if they had any] to access the Farmans?

Nagib

Confess??
On December 26th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Bloglaw has quoted Vancouverite saying "Alnaz Jiwa failed to confess that Nagib Tajdin has invented some excerpts of Farmans in the Infringement Material."

What does the above quote say or imply? Whoever wrote it needs to explain what is meant by the above quote. AssumIng that he is suggesting that Farmans in the book being distributed are not authentic, all I can say that neither the Statement of Claim, nor the evidence filed nor in the cross examinations conducted is there any suggestion of any Farman wrongfully transcribed or invented, and SS or MM or the Institutions could and would have given evidence that invented Farmans have been published.

In the court the only argument was whether there was consent to publish, not whether any farmans were false or invented farmans. Invented farmans would automatically be considered wrong and damages ordered and injunction issued.

* Canada

Actually few years back SS
On December 26th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

As received from nagib:

Actually few years back SS told me they had checked all the books [The last one was not yet published], he was referring to the first 3 books of KIZ series and he said they found them to be "accurate to the dot".

Nagib

A good professional in
On December 25th, 2010 Amir (not verified) says:

A good professional in reading comments here and in vancouverite websites will come to the conclusion and recommend change of mindset and management of the change.

I would add that this holistic change will come not from come from progressive evolution alone, but a transformative revolution. As Late professor Arkhoon (Governor of IIS) used to say we will need to deconstruct and reconstruct our thinking completely. He was referring to the study of Quran.

We have excellent creative professional Resourses who have offered a TKN Nazrana under the GJ initiatives.

As some commentators have rightly said change will take time. Managed and measurable implementation of change with a holistic approach and strategies, will require a minimum of 5 years if fully supported institutionally.

The challenge as is normal in many FP and NFP conglomerates is acknowledgment and acceptance by firstly the need, and secondly the need for a new TKN resourced change team which is then empowered, creative, and professional. The team and goals also needs to be holistic, inclusive, global and action centric for expected outcomes.

* United Kingdom

I agree and to acheive
On December 26th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I agree and to achieve expected outcomes sooner rather than later, I would suggest that such a cross functional team should report direct to LIF( as a body) for them to deliberate and present their views to MHI for guidance,.with recommendations for Implementation.Let us hope some of the current members of LIF may be considering this for their next meeting, if they have not already done so.

* United Kingdom

@Nagib re: above post of Dec. 25th
On December 25th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Touché, Nagib !! :-) I love the pun "...is having Nightmare..." Thanks for the humour!

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Reasons why ?
On December 23rd, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Since 15th October upto date I wonder if Mr Gray or Dr SS and MM, have explained or discussed with Alnaz or Nagib the reasons why an admission of copyright infringement is legally necessary and particularly why it will give more legal protection to MHI against any furture infringements by anyone ?

* United Kingdom

Pensées pour Nagib, Alnaz
On December 24th, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

Chers frères Nagib et Alnaz, Ya ali Madat,

Nous arrivons à la fin de l’année 2010 et malgré les Directives très précises et inspirées de Mowlana Hazar Imam lors de l’entretien du 15 octobre et Ses remarques durant Son discours sur le Pluralisme, nos leaders n’ont pas saisi la portée de ces Hidayaths et continuent à désespérer un grand nombre de frères et ismailis à travers le monde. Et ceci est très grave et nous rend très tristes.

En ce qui me concerne, je suis plus que convaincu, cette forme d’intime conviction, que Mowlana Hazar Imam n’a pas initié, n’a pas souhaité ce « lawsuit » contre vous ! Je ne vous connais pas, je ne vous ai jamais rencontré mais j’ai une profonde gratitude, admiration et estime pour le travail de diffusion des Farmans que vous avez réalisé pour vos frères et sœurs ismailis. C’est une œuvre remarquable, très louable et une marque absolue de votre attachement indéfectible à l’Autorité Spirituelle de Mowlana Hazar Imam. Vous êtes Ses murids et Sa Grâce et Sa Miséricorde vous accompagnent ! Quelque soit l’issue de ce regrettable « lawsuit », vous aurez toujours ma reconnaissance !

Quand j’ai voulu approfondir notre Tariqah, me lancer dans cette quête spirituelle que Mowla Bapa prône de tous Ses vœux pour Ses murids, le document de couverture bleu avec les Farmans du Bhaitoul-Khyal que vous aveiz préparé m’a beaucoup servi. Je me suis plongé à la compréhension détaillée des Farmans de Mowla Bapa. Et quelque part, je vous dois ma formation, ma compréhension de cette quête via l’Ibaddat.

Aussi, lors de l’anniversaire de Mowla Bapa le 13 décembre dernier, je me trouvais à Cotonou (Bénin) et l’hôtel où je me trouvais, devant l’immensité de l’océan, j’ai bien sûr eu des pensées pour Mowla Bapa, pour tous les frères et sœurs ismailis et pour vous deux aussi qui traversaient depuis des mois des épreuves difficiles. Permettez-moi de vous soumettre et de vous offrir ainsi qu’à tous les internautes de ce site ce que j’ai rédigé ce jour la.
Avec mes affectueuses pensées fraternelles et passez de bonnes fêtes de fin d’année !

Un songe, un rêve
Ou une réalité subtile !

J’ai conscience que mon âme détient un secret, caché dans mon jardin fleuri. Et je sais depuis cette union par le Bhayat que le code d’accès est la voie de l’Ibaddat. C’est un chemin, une quête personnelle qui s’ouvre vers un champ de liberté, avec la certitude d’atteindre un havre de paix, de sérénité et de bonheur. C’est un acte réfléchi, libre, en en parfait accord avec mon esprit, mon cœur et mon intellect. Un voyage vers une rencontre lumineuse et harmonieuse!
L’Ibaddat est une approche très sérieuse, la plus aboutie de notre Tariqah. C’est une quête personnelle, intime, un cheminement qui donne un sens à nos rêves et au-delà des attentes c’est un voyage où une Rencontre est possible ! Ilest possible de sentir un bras posé sur notre épaule, un visage ou un regard posé sur nous, nous pouvons établir un dialogue, approfondir les échanges et forger de solides convictions sur les dimensions spirituelles du Din et du Dounia.
On avance sur une route lumineuse et cette quête nous offre cette rencontre avec nous même, avec ce que nous aimons, nos faiblesses, nos espoirs, nos prières, nos doutes, nos soucis, nos craintes….avec le secret de notre âme ! Un champ fertile et libre ! L’inquiétude se libère et se perd dans ce lieu sans bord ! On a la place, l’univers sans fin pour soi ! Mais une lumineuse Unlimited vision !

Mais ce chemin est certes difficile, une Grâce du Tout Puissant, fait de patience, d’humilité, de modestie. Et même si les doutes reviennent, se font entendre, les pressions de la vie courante nous submergent, brouillent les messages fondamentaux …..il nous faut tenir la barre, rester sur ce chemin du Siratal-mustaquim, …..Il est là avec nous, nous accompagne, nous prépare des bagages plus légers, nous aider dans nos envols… et finit toujours à nous livrer aux lumières du jour ce que nous ne savons pas dire, nos craintes et nos faiblesses ! Les portes s’ouvrent d’elle mêmes, un parchemin est proposé, quelques cartes sont soulevées….des morceaux manquants à notre intellect sont retrouvés….. »Je suis toujours avec vous » !
Et tous les rendez vous durant cette heure de l’Ibaddat ont le même sens…La route est longue, pas facile mais devient de plus en plus désirable car notre quête est insatiable !

Ces moments de Concentration, un temps où l’esprit s’évapore, une sorte de musique, des vibrations, des éclairs de lumière… des mots, des conversations, des murmures que l’on ne maîtrise plus, ces lignes d’errance, d’abandon, où on se laisse aller. Un passeur nous a aidé à prendre l’envol ! »Aucun désert, aucun océan, aucune montagne n’arrivera à séparer l’Imam de Ses Murids » !

Partons, soyons réguliers, restons derrière la voilure ! Mowla nous épaulera et nous aidera à accéder à des découvertes « à peine pensables », l’impensable à nos yeux, l’inexplicable, des secrets, les clés de la sagesse, de la tolérance, de la compassion…l’Amour ! Accéder à ce qu’il ya de plus vrai en nous !
Ce n’est pas une idée,
Ce n’est pas une émotion,
Ce n’est pas un vertige,
Ce n’est pas une utopie,
Ce n’est pas un Effroi,
C’est une réalité,
C’est une rencontre,
C’est un chant d’amour,
Une victoire sur l’inquiétude,
C’est une vision,
C’est une recherche de l’équilibre,
C’est ce qu’il ya de plus vrai en nous !
Mohez nato

* France

@Mohez Nato (re: above post, Dec. 24)
On December 25th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Comme vous avez adressé les réflexions ci-dessus aux internautes aussi, je me permets d'y réagir : vous êtes poète aussi, Mohez ! Puissiez-vous continuer à progresser sur la voie sur laquelle vous cheminez avec Lui à vos côtés. Ameen. J'espère que votre séjour à Cotonou aura donné les résultats escomptés. J'ai été surprise l'autre jour de lire qu'il était interdit de mendier au Bénin...

A propos, avant que je n'oublie de vous le dire! Votre lettre du 19 novembre avait été expédiée au LIF et au Conseil de France.

Je me joins à vous pour renouveler mes remerciements bien sincères et chaleureuses à Nagib et à son équipe pour la publication des livres de Farman (si vous n'avez pas celui qui est au centre du procès, j'espère de tout coeur qu'il vous sera donné un jour de le posséder et de le parcourir : il contient des trésors !!! Sa lecture me procure toujours un bonheur indicible.) : on leur doit une dette qui ne pourra jamais, au grand jamais, être acquittée. Sans nul doute, Mowla Bapa les récompensera infiniment. Louanges à Mowla Bapa de nous avoir jugés dignes de recevoir ce cadeau sans pareil que sont ces livres, et, aussi, ce site qui met à notre portée tant de belles choses, tant de bonheur...Et à Alnaz je renouvelle mes voeux de courage pour cette lutte si pénible. "Satya mèv jayatè."

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

French to English translation from Google translator
On December 24th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

French to English translation
Thoughts for Nagib, Alnaz
On December 24th, 2010 mohez nato (not verified) says:
Dear brothers, Nagib and Alnaz, Ya ali Madat,

We arrive at the end of 2010 and despite the very specific guidelines and Mowlana Hazar Imam inspired at the meeting of 15 October and her remarks during his speech on Pluralism, our leaders have not grasped the scope of Hidayaths and these continue to despair many brothers and Ismailis worldwide. And this is very serious and makes us very sad.

In my case, I am more convinced that this form of intimate conviction that Mowlana Hazar Imam has not started, did not want this "lawsuit" against you! I do not know, I've never met but I have a deep appreciation, admiration and esteem for the work of disseminating Farmans that you did for your brothers and sisters Ismailis. It is a remarkable piece, very commendable and a mark of your absolute unwavering commitment to the Authority Mowlana Hazar Imam Spiritual. You are murids His and Her Grace and Mercy are with you! Whatever the outcome of this unfortunate "lawsuit" you'll always have my gratitude!

When I wanted to deepen our Tariqah, get into the spiritual quest that Mowla Bapa advocates of all His wishes for his murids, blue paper cover with the Farmans Bhaitoul-Khyal you Aveize prepared me a lot served. I immersed myself in the detailed understanding of Mowla Bapa Farmans. And somewhere, I owe you my background, my understanding of this quest through Ibaddat.

Also, on the anniversary of Mowla Bapa December 13 last, I found myself in Cotonou (Benin) and the hotel where I was, at the immensity of the ocean, of course I had thoughts for Mowla Bapa for all Ismaili brothers and sisters and you two also crossing for months of difficult trials. Let me submit to you and offer you and all users of this site that I wrote that day.
With my affectionate thoughts go fraternal and a happy holiday season!

A dream, a dream
Or a subtle reality!

I realize that my soul has a secret hidden in my flower garden. And since I know this union Bayat the access code is the way to Ibaddat. It is a journey, a personal quest that opens to a field of freedom, with the certainty of achieving a haven of peace, serenity and happiness. It is a deliberate act, free, in perfect agreement with my mind, my heart and my intellect. A trip to a meeting bright and smooth!
The Ibaddat is a very serious approach, the most successful of our Tariqah. This is a personal quest, intimate, a journey that gives meaning to our dreams and beyond expectations is a journey where a meeting is possible! Itis possible to feel an arm resting on our shoulder, a face or a gaze fixed on us, we can establish a dialogue, deepen exchanges and forge strong convictions about the spiritual dimensions of Din and Dunya.
We proceed along the road bright and this quest gives us the encounter with ourselves, with what we love, our weaknesses, our hopes, our prayers, our doubts, our anxieties, our fears .... With the secret of our soul! A fertile field and free! The concern is released and is lost in this place without board! It was instead the endless universe for himself! But a bright vision Unlimited!

But this path is certainly difficult, grace of the Almighty, is patience, humility, modesty. Even if doubts come, are heard, the pressures of everyday life overwhelm us, blurring the fundamental messages ... .. we must take the stand, stay on this path-Siratal mustaquim ... .. He is there with us, with us, preparing us for lighter luggage, help us in our flight ... and always ends up to give us the light of day what we do not say, our fears and weaknesses! The doors open by themselves, a parchment was proposed, some cards are raised. ... Missing pieces to our intellect are found ... .. "I am always with you!
And all appointments during this time of Ibaddat have the same meaning ... The road is long, not easy but becomes increasingly desirable as our insatiable quest!

These moments of concentration, a time when the spirit evaporates, a kind of music, vibration, flashes of light ... the words, conversations, whispers that you no longer control, these lines of wandering, abandonment, where we let go. A smuggler helped us take off! "No desert, no ocean, no mountain happen to separate the Imam of His Muridae!

Let's go, let's regular stay behind the wing! Mowla support us and help us get to discoveries "barely thinkable," the unthinkable to us, the inexplicable, the secret keys of wisdom, tolerance, compassion ... Love! Access to what is most true in us!
This is not an idea,
This is not an emotion
This is not a giddy,
This is not a utopia,
This is not a dread,
It is a reality
This is a meeting,
It is a love song,
A victory over worry,
It is a vision,
It is a quest for balance,
That is what is most true in us!
Mohez nato

replyFrance
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* United States

Contscts wuth SS or MM
On December 23rd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

No, MM or SS has not ever spoken with me or even discussed anything with me. Q why do they insist on infringement.

Remember that SS opposed MHI's confirmation that all distributed books can be kept and not to return. SS sought to make MHI reverse his decision (which he said twice), so they are dying to win the case so they can force the Jamats to return of all books. Their purpose for infringement is in direct contradiction (Gray's revised consent supports our version of what happened on Oct 15.)

They have no desire to follow imam's direction

* Canada

Leaders top down. should ask
On December 24th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Leaders top down. should ask themselves the following questions, which many if not most are asking.

1. Have we followed Imam's Farmans to resolve differences internally

2. Have we followed Imam,s institutional directives in the reports prepared before and after the lawsuit was filed? Have we asked to read the reports?

3. Have we followed Imam,s directions of 15th Oct 2010?

4. Do we know the reasons why an admission of infringement is so critical ? And based on the 7 reasons why with respect infringement it is a non issue for the consent as directed by MHI ?

5. Do we know Why is Imam waiting and spent 30 minutes on 15 th October and instead of saying may I make a suggestion Imam if Imam wished could have said for example I would like to reassure you I am the plaintiff and it is my wish that you withdraw all allegations and agree to judgement on all claims in the lawsuit?

Imam has reminded Leaders to regularly ask of themselves if they have followed Imam's guidance and farmans and if they have fulfilled all their responsibilities.

If any leader feels he or she has not, then Imam says it is his wish and desire that they should make every possible effort to do so.

In this case Dr SS and MM have clearly not. Other especially top leaders should not wait and certainly approach and discuss with Dr SS and MM and amongst themselves so they fully understand precisely what are the differences and to read the legal and opinion of the leaders in the report presented to MHI Which will be incisive on the issue of an admission to infringement and on the draft consent signed by Alnaz and Nagib.

I hope therefore each leader who has not will ask of themselves and do the right thing because this lawsuit affects the jamat and therefore each leader in their seva and responsibilities to and for the Jamat.

* United Kingdom

@ Bloglaw: The leaders and Ostrich attitudes.
On December 24th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Over 90 percent of the leaders do not follow the case .Only top few involved may be following.
They do not go on either website hence the knowledge about the case is not there.Period.
They believe what is told to them by their superiors.
Over years all of them have been taught not to question anything that comes from LIF because it is all MHI 's directions
It is an inbreed culture cultivated over the last decade or so.
Only the YES Men have survived to secure their positions, a true key.
An Ostrich burying his head in the ground and ignoring everything else but itself.

Every leader I have spoken to knew nothing about the lawsuit.
Half of them believe it was settled when MHI came to Toronto.
Others believe plaintiff being MHI of course he must have already won , no question.
One leader was so ignorant he said Alnaz is a lady from Canada?
Few others believe they have nothing to do with it.
Their lives and work is same ( Which is status Quo ofcourse) Easy as ever.

It is Only Mawla who is working all the time
Some good leaders involved in grassroot projects are so involved and busy they do not have time to follow this court case.
They cant be bothered!
So however vital it is what is posted here by bloglaw and Moez Nato the audience is miniscule.
Hence the thoughts and ideas and legitimate questions of all the thinkers and well wishers and intellectuals is not welcomed.

* United States

Many leaders say they do not
On December 24th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Many leaders say they do not follow this case or know about it because they do not wish to eneter into that discussion with you at that time. This is simply a diplomatic response.

My experience is most Leaders and the Jamat know and are happy to talk individually, confidentially and selectively. What is most important and wonderful is that they all come to know in any event. Hence the audience, interest, concern and reach are all significant.

I agree some specific leaders in question have managed to exercise excessive unilateralism in the last decade or so, at the expense of the right balance of din and dunya and the checks and balances. Hence the need to reverse this pervasive and widening gap..

However as a result of the lawsuit Leaders top down are now aware and know. Any significant and noticeable change and a especially a change of mindset will take time and we must be patient. Meanwhile and as directed by MHI, we must give feed back and continue to give our support to our Leaders top down.

We must also give credit to ALL leaders where it is due for the excellent work and progress facilitated and enabled by Hazar Imam.

* United Kingdom

Do miracles happen?
On December 22nd, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Do miracles happen? Yes, they used to happen in the past and they also happen in this age. Similarly, we can say about Leelas (plays); thy used to take place in the past during the time of nine Avatars and also used to take place during our previous Imams. He does such Leelas even now. It depends upon individual’s perception and outlook to observe and understand them.
Here are some of His Leelas in this case.
Leela # 1:
Gray was pressing very hard for summary judgment, from the beginning, soon after cross examinations were over. On the other hand, defendants were pressing for discovery prior to judgment.
Defendants were successful in creating doubt in the mind of Prothonotary about the plaintiff’s identity, and hence able to get discovery order. Gray did not expect this and hence was terrified and got panicky, because by his own efforts, and for obvious reasons, he was not in a position to produce HI for discovery. He rushed to Ottawa judge in panicky mode with 24 page motion application, but there too he had no luck. However, with the help of SS and MM, he was able to produce HI in the discovery meeting.
We will just see as to how this order of discovery was itself a part of Leelas.
Leelas #2:
HI did appear for discovery. Most of people say that He was there as a part of court judgment. But inner reality was something else. But that requires a different mindset to understand it.
It was Nagib’s prerogative to appoint appropriate recording person from the court, but he somehow, it seems, forgot to do it, and instead, Gray hired one of his choice. However, this oversight/ mistake of Nagib went into defendants favour. How? Here is the answer.
Had Nagib hired a recording person, he would have recorded entire 30 minutes conversations, and hence every thing would have been clear to such an extent that Gray/SS/ MM had no option but to agree to consent judgment within a day or two, and the case must have been settled immediately.
Had the case been settled this way, just after 15th October meeting, the Ismailis of Vancouverite type, in general, would have started the propaganda that the case indeed had been filed by HI, but He, in His infinite mercy, compelled his lawyer Gray for consent judgment. These people in that case would have been successful to convince the entire jamat that the defendants’ acts since 1992 had been destructive for the entire global jamat and that their only intentions were to slender leadership in the guise of Mehmani and, at the same time, mint money by printing of Farman books.
But He perhaps has a different plan and led Nagib to make this oversight/mistake of not hiring a recording person.
This is Leela # 2.
Leela #3:
Just at the beginning of discovery meeting, as soon as Nagib handed over his January 4th letter to HI, Gray snatched that letter from HI’s hands. HI acted innocently as if no thing has happened. This is Leela#3. How? Let us see this too.
Had Gray not snatched that letter, HI would have read it and naturally would have asked him as what he wants to say, and Nagib would have asked those five questions related to this case and would have also clarified,” Khudavind, did you write those letters and are you the plaintiff in this case.” And HI’s direct reply one way or the other would have ended the case one way or the other. But here too it seems, He had a different plan, perhaps to let the case proceed further so as to enable the real truth to prevail.
This is Leela# 3.
Leela#4:
On 7th December, during proceeding of summary judgment Gray and SS arranged to present Carnegie, HI’s staff lawyer, in the court and introduce him to the judge to impress him and, at the same time, to intimidate both the defendants. But their whole plan failed as Al Naz has found out the stud case 2000 in which Carnegie was also involved.
This is Leela#4
General:
From point of view of defendants the discovery meeting was indeed a positive one. HI was not only empathetic to them by answering some of the Tariqa related queries, but also assured them that He would meet them again and work with them. While the same meeting with limited recording was not of much help to Gray, SS and MM.
Conclusion:
I feel, we may expect some more Leelas and with the aggregate effect of each such Leelas, the case is inching gradually to wards real truth, and as a result many positive outcomes will follow too.

Miracle, strange, Leela Providence....
On December 24th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Dr SS, MM and AK are using the very best legal brains and necessary resources money can buy. Before the cross examination of SS & AK, they all knew what questions & issues which will be raised. They will have considered all the issues and the articulation of their responses in detail and comprehensively. They will have had the option of mock questions and answers. with Mr Gray, his team and or Mr Carnegie They have also had in addition our institutional leadership training sessions annually for the last 18 years..

Instead of carefully prepared and articulated responses, both Dr SS and AK demonstrated and confirmed a no care attitude by making at best statements which show a lack of respect and understanding for our Tariquah, and consequently the Jamat and The Imamat.

So who is helping to ensure that the real truth comes out in the open and that too, DIRECTLY from the leaders in question. Anyone can read and decide this for themselves.(Umed please can you add the link on this website).

Call it a Miracle, Leela, providence, strange or a combination of such names and coincidences. The truth would not otherwise have been known.

After the meeting on 15 Oct 2010, Alnaz has confirmed that there have been no meetings or discussions nor reasons explained why an admission of infringement is critical for the purposes of consent and settlement as directed by Hazar Imam.

Dr SS & MM are clearly not following Imam's Farmans or the institutional directives to settle the only difference remaining in this case by arbitration or discussion with the 2 murids..

Imam reminded us of the divine in his speech on 15 October 2010 ".....In acknowledging the immensity of The Divine, we will also come to acknowledge our human limitations, the incomplete nature of human understanding. In that light, the amazing diversity of Creation itself can be seen as a great gift to us – not a cause for anxiety but a source of delight. Even the diversity of our religious interpretations can be greeted as something to share with one another – rather than something to fear..."

In giving feed back I am acknowledging humbly that none of us are perfect. Hazar Imam has confirmed clearly that perfection is Allah’s alone. We must not therefore not seek perfection from our Leaders, we must be generous and supportive. However we must expect performance not perfection, we must also expect competence answerability and capability (1992).

* United Kingdom

"We must expect performance not perfection"
On December 24th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, BLOGLAW! Thank you for acknowledging in Ismaili.Net, dated December 24, 2010 about the Ismaili Muslims Institutional leadership training sessions annually for the last 18 years! You do admit that the said leadership have the necessary resources to provide them with first–hand know how and training! The Ismaili Muslims Tariquah has enlightened the Jamat and the leadership about the Imam of the time and the Ismailism to an extent that everybody in the Community knows about the protocol, code of behaviour, and etiquette which we all have witnessed during Mawlana Hazar Imam’s Golden Jubilee. This has happened to stay up to date with the time. Our training and education in educated and well-informed countries have given us the opportunity to become scholar, academic, philosopher, etc. These academics are meticulously researching our hereditary, our culture, and our religious conviction. In this era, it has become mandatory who we are and where do we stand? Hazar Imam has articulated in His Farman in India that the grievance about the Ismaili Muslims Institution and it leadership is not fair because nobody is perfect with the exception of Allah! Therefore in your own words Bloglaw, I quote: In giving feed back I am acknowledging humbly that none of us are perfect. Hazar Imam has confirmed clearly that perfection is Allah’s alone. We must not, therefore, seek any perfection from our Leaders; we must be generous and supportive. However we must expect performance not perfection, we must also expect competence answerability and capability (1992), unquote. Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

@kasamali
On December 23rd, 2010 An ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

I frankly admit that I do not understand much about Leela. But yes, some strange positive things are happening with this case. Let us all continue to pray for such more positive things.

@Kasamali
On December 23rd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I fully agree with you.
What is apprent is not truth and what is truth is not apparent.
But everything will play out smoothly in due course.
My faith is defendants will be the winners.

* United States

Mawla is al rehman,al
On December 23rd, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Mawla is al rehman,al raheem, Mawla is maha dayaru and mamtaru, Mawla is al Karim.

How can Mawla take legal action against one of his Murid knowing none of his leaders has even approached or wrote any letters to him (if he authorised letters) - Alnaz. I say never - If Mawla would never then why Alnaz was included as a defendant and is still a defendant , and why no conciliation, meeting, and why Dr SS and MM as leaders not following Imam's guidance, Farmans and Directives.

Would Mawla say that Farmans are available in all JK's including in remote locations if they are in fact not. (I say never !) Before that statement was released in court why did not Leaders or Mr Gray make sure this was true ?

Would Mawla ever give directions and Farmans and go againt his own Farman and directions ? I say never !

Why bring Mr Carnegie to the court and announce him to the judge when in fact Mr Gray is best of the best lawyer ?

Taubha"! Taubha !

Leaders need to ask, review and not just sit and wait but they sould discuss amongst themselves to conclude this case as directed by MHI.on 15 October 2010. According to Dr SS statements under oath he did say MHI wanted him to discuss this amongst the leaders.

It is never too late to do so now. We all know from experience or fromTv/Films/documentaries, that cases and disputes are settled at the 11th hour all the time. The stud case quoted was settled.

* United Arab Emirates

what is going on
On December 22nd, 2010 imran (not verified) says:

its been a while since we heard what is going on. Can some one update thanks.

* United States

Everyone is waiting for the
On December 22nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Everyone is waiting for the judgment to read how the Judge arrived at his conclusions whatever they are and which party fought the case in a more convincing manner. Both parties had about 25 previous cases to support their stand, both books of authorities submitted are voluminous. We forecast however a long judgment [many pages] explaining many issues raised during the Motions. It is only reading the explanations in the judgment that we will know if the Ismaili community's workings and what is the status of the Imam, if these points have been explained properly during the Motions.

Ideally the Imam should have been the one writing the judgment. It was unfortunate that even though the Consent Judgment was signed exactly according to the Imam's s instructions by the defendants, it was not acceptable to SS and MM who are directing this case. And it is even more unacceptable that after the Imam said in details that he remembers the 1992 Mehmani instruction to continue publishing Farmans, Gray is still following SS and MM instructions while pretending to represent the Imam. The fact that the Imam found nothing wrong with the Farman Book and allowed everyone to keep it should have been an eye opener.

SS's attempted stunt of sending the lawyer Carnegie to sit within the audience during the Motion has backfired as thanks to his presence, search was done and his name was found in another case involving fraud in the Aga Khan stud.

We can conclude that at the discovery the Imam took the horse to the water but the horse refused to drink. In due time the Imam will tackle these rogue elements. Meanwhile, patience is the name of the game. It has been a long year for the community. Happy New Year to all!

@librarian-umed above post (Dec. 22nd)
On December 23rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Please, Umed, when the Judge's decision is made, do not forget to present it to us in plain English, so that people like me can understand what is meant :-)! Thank you in advance!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

that is why mowla said "we shall meet again"
On December 22nd, 2010 imran (not verified) says:

yes that is why mowla said we shall meet again. First meeting was to show mercy on the leaders and the second meeting will be to save his true momins. i say this both tajidin and alnaz were very lucky to talk to mowla and have a mulaqat with him. Not every one is lucky enough to be bestowed that honor.

* United States

Do you belive that ours is a batuni Faith
On December 22nd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Do you believe that ours is a "batuni faith" and Hazar imam is "All-knowing"? If answer to my question is "Yes" then
Hazar Imam is the one who is going to be writing the judgement indeed!! All will be fine for defendants and Jamat Inshaallah.

I was watching a movie "Miracle on the 34 th street" , an all time American favorite during Christmas where the judge in New York had to rule whether there is a Santa clause or it is just a fantasy? After very interesting court proceedings mostly favoring logic over Faith finally to everyone's surprise the judge had to rule that he believes there is Santaclause to save the faith and hope of millions of children worldwide based on series of events that took place just before the verdict was to be given!

So just wait and watch.

* United States

“Allah Is All Knowing And Infinite With Grace and Mercy!”
On December 21st, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YA-ALI-MADAT, LIBRARIAN UMED, MS ZEENATARA, YASMIN, AND MOMIN! Foremost, please accept my thanks for your explanation and clarification regarding the usage of expressions and idioms. Figuratively, one way or another, it is a matter of unimportant to become an issue! Ms Zeenatara what has come to light between Dr. Shafique Sachedina and you is bygone and since its publication as an “Open Letter” in this website, its contents were released to all readers. For that reason we have duly noted your intention with our comments which are in no way a reprimand to you! It is not a judgment but a polite caution to be more ambassadorial. Like us you felt to make your voice louder, and you succeeded in getting a reply! Mawlana Hazar Imam and the Ismaili Muslims Community never judge their own. But seek resolution within or by legal means! Let me declare to you there is no partition of any sort. Whatever has come out has happened! This litigation is a now a public matter. It is open and unrestricted! Therefore, any reader is at liberty to express his/her thoughts as deemed fit. This issue is like a penny dropped in an ocean! It will fade away in time with or without repercussion! I agree with you that we should pray to seek Allah’s infinite grace and mercy. We should also beg for His ‘Rahem’ to differentiate between good and bad. Mawlana Hazar Imam is philanthropist and humanitarian. He is our Spiritual Father. Therefore, let us make good of our commitment with good intention to love Him and our own! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Diplomacy
On December 22nd, 2010 Suleman (not verified) says:

It's interesting to note that Sister Zeenatara is being advised to become more ambassadorial in her communications with the leaders and yet, the language used against the defendants on the Vancouverite posts is far from civil and diplomatic. So is it only our leaders who deserve respect and diplomacy and others, whom leaders are opposing, are no longer human beings worthy of any respect and diplomacy? Do they not have emotions? Feelings? When writing about them is it to be forgotten that they also have children and families who will read this kind of language against them and be thoroughly horrified and extremely hurt?

I join sister Zeenatara in her appeal that everyone should keep their opinions to themselves and just pray for unity and restoration of equilibrium. After all, if a decision in this case is taken against the defendants that decision would be the judge's decision and not Hazar Imam's decision. So with all due respect, let us stop these discussions because it is very difficult for us to maintain the delicate boundary between opinion and judgement. And with more and more discussions, this boundary is likely to be crossed and has been crossed as far as I am concerned.

Division
On December 22nd, 2010 Concerned!! (not verified) says:

I don't fully agree with you. MSMS has differentiated between Ismailis and TRUE Ismailis, in a number of farmans (eg. Chandraat). MSMS also has also said there are aneek (plenty) of Yezid/Shimar like people sitting here in the jamat.

If we read our history there are many many leaders (incl.some from his family) who have betrayed the imam and his jamats.

Today is not different. There is no doubt at all of SS and MM's status - if you read SS's transcript you have no choice but to say that he is worse, and those who continue to support him cant be different - they are of same cloth, enemies of the imam and the Jamat, Not surprising at all.

Read MSMS's farmans to understand or to identify these types of people,

* Canada

Mowla's Grace
On December 21st, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Zeenatara. I agree with you and others. These 2 Murids Nagib and Alnaz love Our Beloved Hazar Imam, and Mowla knows that. The issue up here is "publishing of Farmans", and unfortunately it went into a lawsuit. Our Mowla was so gracious to both of them, blessed them on Oct.15 not for 5 mins. but for 30 mins., because He loves them both. This issue is between our Mowla, Nagib and Alnaz. We have "no right" to say as to what should be done to these 2 Murids, and indirectly try to tell Mowla as to what He should do with them. Other sites and their groups should just leave them alone, and let Mowla make a decision. Infact they as good ismailis should go to Jamatkhana and pray for their spiritual brothers Nagib and Alnaz, then Mowla will be very happy.

We all should make Our Beloved Hazar Imam always happy, because He has sacrificed His entire life for our Ismaili Jamat, and He loves us more than we love Him. Thank you.

* Canada

Mowla mera kazi
On December 21st, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

Further to my concerns voiced in my previous comment posted yesterday, this painful division in our jamat would never have happened if we had just followed our Imam's firman: Only Mowla is allowed to judge, He is THE judge. Nobody else has that right. However, it seems we have been very quick to judge on this case and that is why this split has occurred.
As soon as this case surfaced, we should all have bowed our heads and begged Mowla for His infinite mercy in order to restore unity. Instead, we started taking sides immediately and became judges. According to our Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah (SAW) the difference between man and animal (insaan and haivaan) is that man has the power to differentiate between good and evil and in this case, the good and right thing to do would be to join hands and beg Mowla to restore unity in our jamat by forgiving both parties. It is not too late to do so, so let us stop deciding ourselves who is right and who is wrong and instead pray for this division to be filled.

Before I am questioned, let me clarify that my letter to Shafik Sachedina was on an entirely different issue. Him and other leaders have no right to behave badly in front of the Imam and to abuse the privileges granted to them by the Imam. If they want to do so then they should resign. This letter had nothing to do with any kind of judgement on my part regarding the case. That was a matter of love for the Imam, and my consequent inability to hear about beadabi in His presence by leaders He Himself has appointed.

Thank you brothers Nizar, Umed and Momin and sister Yasmin.

And once again I appeal to all: forget about who is right and who is wrong, let Mowla be the judge of that and also let Mowla decide what should happen to those who are wrong.

We all should pray for one thing only and that is unity in our jamat. After all, Mowla is oft forgiving and most merciful and as history shows it, even the worst offenders like Ravan have attained salvation by taking Mowla's name and deeply repenting just before their last breaths.

“We should create love and fondness for Mawlana Hazar Imam.”
On December 20th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YA-ALI-MADAT, MS ZEENATARA AND MS YASMIN (NOT VERIFIED)! Agreed! We should create love and fondness for Mawlana Hazar Imam. We should feel affection and friendliness for our brothers and sisters. But how can we achieve these love, fondness, and friendliness? We all are materially so much engrossed in our individualism that we are not able to get acquainted with our own! I will agree with you on your kind thoughts and comments but would very kindly request you to refrain from references “to barking dogs, etc.” We are human beings and there is lot of difference between human being and animal! ‘Hazarat Sir Sultan Mohammed Shah Aga Khan has articulated in one His Farman that the performance between human being and the animal is the same – both can procreate, eat, be no more, etc. but the Almighty Allah has given the brain to human being to exercise additional benefits that is bestowed upon them’! We, as human being, have our shortcoming, weakness, and limitation. This limitation could lead us to greed, avarice, and self-indulgence. The only possible way out is to slow down from self-possession, bring under control our weakness and failing! Therefore, let us remove the dividing wall; stop pointing fingers at our challengers. Days of rudimentary are beyond us! Let us follow the wisdom of our Pir and beg Almighty Allah for His grace and mercy!

“Your religious conviction is yours; it is only you who can doubt it.” I would like to take this opportunity to thank Liberian Umed and all those who have accepted me as I am. I mean no harm to anyone! With my sincere prayers in your efforts to create harmony and love among us! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

This is an expression "Let
On December 21st, 2010 librarian-umed says:

This is an expression "Let the mad dogs bark", it is never meant literally. Even Mowlana Hazar Imam has used this expression for people who criticize without trying to understand.

Everyone will understand
On December 21st, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Everyone will understand this is merely an an expression which Zenaatara clarified by saying to let them be (let them say & do what they like). Expressions and Idioms should never be taken literally. Thanks.

* United Arab Emirates

Painful Division
On December 20th, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

This division amongst our brothers and sisters is so very painful. I shudder to think how our Imam is feeling. Has our Imam taught us to be so harsh and so judgmental?!
All those associated with Vancouverite should be highly ashamed of themselves. They say they are standing up for Mowla but in fact their demeanor, their language and their cold and forboding attitudes, bordering on crucifixion, are actually letting the Imam down. Not to mention the amount of pain He is going through.

Well, barking dogs will bark so at least I can appeal to my brothers and sisters on this site not to enter into a barking match with such people and also there is the need to be very careful of one's imaan which is a delicate treasure. Where such people as the Vancouverite group are concerned, it would be wise to remember our Pir's words:

Gurnar thi bhulaa tasu vaad na kije,
Te to avar ko jiv dolaaveji

So please my brothers and sisters, let us remember that having arguments and discussions with such people as the vancouverite group, who are stubbornly fixated on their misguided views, can be dangerous because they can succeed in shaking your faith. So according to the Pir, the best thing to do is to keep away from such people and let them continue with their harsh attrocities. The best thing for us to do is to turn our backs on them and continue praying to our Imam to step in and bridge this painful division amongst our brothers and sisters with His grace and mercy, Ameen.

@Zeenatara
On December 20th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Zeenatara. Well said. All those who are attacking verbally their Spiritual Brothers and Sisters, and they say that they are standing up for Mowla, but unfortunately, they are making Our Beloved Hazar Imam go through lot of pain. It is very sad, when your Mowla is in pain. Thank you.

* Canada

forgiveness
On December 19th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

On 15th October, Nagib and Al Naz asked for forgiveness of HI, and hence they will never be punished as per following verse of Quran:
“But Allah would not punish them while you(Rasul) were with them, nor will He punish them while they seek(your) forgiveness” (Holy Quran: 8:33)
The question is: Who did not ask for forgiveness and instead defied His wishes and suggestions?

What happened now?
On December 19th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I thought Mr Gray rushed in for summary judgement thinking favorable "instant judgement" was in his pocket, a piece of cake?

For sure the Judge did not hand him the victory so easily so far.
The longer it is taking I think the judge is reviewing everything more carefully?Especially with introduction of the"stud case"?
Or is it just normal it takes a long before any decision?

I heard a rumor from London from a prestigious Ismaili that the Plaintiff already got the Summary judgement in their favor .I told him my guess is the case is going to continue.
Can librarian Umed give some update?

* United States

I do not think there will be
On December 19th, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

I do not think there will be any hasty decision on this matter. The easy matter would have been just to give a judgment in the matter of Copyright without considering the far reaching changes it will bring to the Ismaili Faith as practiced for Centuries by our Jamat. But the judge was very much aware of what this would meant to our Faith.

The first day of the hearing on 7 December, the Judge was very annoyed, he asked "Why can't you all resolve the issue by mediation?" It looked like he was not comfortable giving a decision in a so complicated matter which was way beyond the issue of copyright and in which he understood that the defendant were eager to comply with whatever the Imam will tell them to do. He could not understand that the Imam came for Discovery and went and the case was still continuing. I guess it is difficult for any person, including me to understand that when the Imam came to find an honourable solution to this lawsuit which was launched without consulting Him why was it still continuing?.

Why are these people SS, MM and Gray still continuing it against the wishes expressed clearly by the Imam? And when the Imam Himself confirmed to them that He vividly remembered the Mehmani of 1992 and the presentation of the book and the instructions He Himself gave to Karim Alibhay, how are these 3 people going to justify what they have done behind the Imam's back by continuing in His name a baseless lawsuit.

And my question to them is simple: The Imam said he will meet us again and we will work together and He will give us all the Farmans with His anotations. Where will these people hide when it happens?

Nagib

Check the court docket
On December 19th, 2010 heritage says:

If it is not on the docket, it is a rumour:

http://cas-ncr-nter03.cas-satj.gc.ca/IndexingQueries/infp_RE_info_e.php?...

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

Respect for Tariquah ! ..
On December 19th, 2010 Blloglaw (not verified) says:

Vancouvertite News Editor says to Bloglaw “…………. I must say there is no logical reason for the defendants to create a mission for themselves through some dubious belief that makes them fight the very institution of Imamat that they purport to have full faith in. What ….. I think ego has come in the way of reason. …….the defendants who have set themselves up as the supreme authority of Ismailis – that they will decide what Ismailis need and that the leadership should see it their way. It is very important to understand that you can believe what you want – just don’t force those beliefs down our throats ….”
Bloglaw replies

Mr Editor : Imam Issues Farmans, instructions and directives to be followed and implemented. The central issue is why then would Imam not want them to be followed and practiced ? The obvious question that follows is :

Would Imam file a lawsuit if he knew Alnaz was not contacted, Farmans are not available in all JK 's, succinct, incisive and factual analysis, regarding the facts of this case were not prepared and or considered institutionally before the lawsuit was filed, collegiality and dialogue are at best limited and selective, and Imam’s Farmans to always resolve by arbitration, friendship and discussion as brothers and sisters, etc .

The defendants should be thanked for highlighting all the issues, and enabling an unprecedented feed back of the widening gap of the root causes and the ground realities. This is in keeping with Farmans and directives of MHI.

Regarding personal beliefs, We must all respect them and each other, and if it is the belief of some which we do not agree with we must still respect it. Imam wishes rites, ceremonies and traditions to be preserved and respected including mehmani. We now have new traditions which have are being introduced globally as you may know or can find out if you do not know.

Remembering also, in out Tariquah and in Islam, we do not separate the spiritual and the temporal. This is stated very clearly in the constitution by MHI. Therefore Farmans, directives and instructions from the Imam are holistic and inclusive. In this case farmans and the directives are clear. They have not all been followed is also clear.

I hope and pray that the only remaining issue of an admission is concluded by consent and agreement in the spirit of Imam’s directions on 15 October 2010, and in accordance with the farmans and directives issued by MHI on this subject and generally in the spirit of brotherhood and friendship. Ameen

* United Kingdom

Resposibility
On December 19th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

“It is not fitting for a believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by God and his messenger to have any opinion regarding their decision.” (Holy Quran, 33: 36)

Hazar Imam on 15th October expressed his decision/ wish for consent judgement, but it could not materialized .
The question is: Who is responsible for this? Ponder.

“ Say (O, Muhammad), if you love Allah, follow me(Rasul), Allah will love you and forgive your sins. Allah is forgiving, merciful” ( Holy Quran 3:31)

The question is, who has not followed Him after 15th October meeting?

Sirat al Mustaqueem
On December 19th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

You are right according to all the 3 authoritative translations of the Holy Quran. It is important to look at all the translations from the Quran;

When a directive or a decision is given, then If a believer follows his/her own opinion or interpretation, then they are rebelling against Allah by letting their attitude or course of action be determined by their personal interests, bias and preference.

(YUSUF ALI ) 33:36 It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision*: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path **.

ASAD) 33:36 (Now whenever God and His Apostle have decided a matter, it is not for a believing man or a believing woman to claim freedom of choice* in so far as they themselves are concerned: for he who [thus] rebels against God and His Apostle** has already, most obviously, gone astray.

PICKTHALL) 33:36 (And it becometh not a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His messenger have decided an affair (for them), * that they should (after that) claim any say in their affair; and whoso is rebellious to Allah and His messenger, ** he verily goeth astray in error manifest

* whenever a specific law is in the Qur’an (Allah) or in an injunction (order - guidance ) promulgated (declared) by the Messenger.

** to have a choice in their concern " - to let their attitude or course of action be determined, by their personal interests, bias & preference, and not, as decided by Allah or His Messenger

* United Arab Emirates

Quran !!
On December 19th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

These Ayats and many verses from our Ginans give us warnings not to question the Imams (Pirs) and to obey, obey immediately, without questions or doubts.

Remember, on October 15, both MM and SS were told off by the Imam 'it would be nice if we spoke with same ('one' to MM) voice when both not only did not accept the decision given by the Imam, but opposed Imam's decisions directly on His face.

However, when a person opposes the Imam directly on his face, what is that person capable of doing behind the Imam's face, when the Imam is physically not present! Moreover what can we expect of such persons.

I ask myself often, there must be a purpose for the Imam to show me in person what I had been hearing for decades - direct defiance by his own appointed leaders. I wonder what he wants me now to do with that direct knowledge, I trust and pray that he inspires and guides me.

* Canada

MHI Guidance
On December 20th, 2010 Seeker (not verified) says:

Alnaz:

Isn't it true that MHI wanted you to be a lawyer?

Peace!

* Canada

MHI's Guidance
On December 21st, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Yes, MHI guided me to becoming a lawyer, and set the course for me to follow, and I am very grateful and continuously offer my shukr to him, by words, prayers and deeds.

* Canada

Feedback Dialogue & Collegiality
On December 18th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Imam directed and encourages feedback, dialogue, collegiality and sharing of information and Guidance including Farmans. The following are some of the directives to Leaders issued 15 years ago by MHI. These are circulated today as a part of the Leadership training and orientation programs.
If these were practiced and followed, then the lawsuit would not have been filed and certainly settled on 15th October 2010 as directed by Hazar Imam.
Some of the relevant Directives to Leaders in 1995
1 Regular feedback (Leadership and Jamati) should be a part of the institutional (Leadership) culture.
2 Leaders should foster a culture of dialogue through collegiality (cooperative interaction) & encourage objectivity and accountability,
3 Institutions should set up reliable procedures that will enable them to acquire a genuine understanding of the needs (spiritual and secular) of the Jamat. The processes should incorporate Jamati feedback
4 A leadership approach at all levels should engender confidence and team spirit through appropriate delegation of responsibilities, sharing of information, and the provision of support amongst Leaders and to the Jamat.
5 The institutions should strive to engender a culture of objectivity with a greater commitment to sound management, administrative and financial practices.
6 Reporting should be an integral management tool and reports should be factual, succinct and incisive.
7 Good information and incisive analysis is critical to making good and objective decision.
8 Judicious usage should be made of reasonable information technology.

* Germany

@Bloglaw re: above post of Dec. 18
On December 21st, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for sharing this useful information with the rest of us, Bloglaw, all the way from Germany! Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

According to Dr SS in his
On December 19th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

According to Dr SS in his cross examination, he said Imam first considered legal action at the end of March 2010.

Therefore If the above directives were followed, then the lawsuit would not have been filed within 5 days, by 6th April.

This is because an objective, incisive and succinct analysis research and assessment of facts and a report with a legal opinion and an impact analysis could never been possible in less than 5 working days. Such an internal institutional report would have taken many months. Imam says above " Good information and incisive analysis is critical to making good and objective decision"

* United Arab Emirates

The Stud case ( of 2000) and Copyright case of 2010
On December 11th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

It is incredible that Alnaz saved this “Stud case” of 2000, till the end! Excellent!

First reading of the case made me apprehensive but second reading of the judgment actually make me feel very encouraged that just because name “Agakhan” is there does not mean that the judges are going to be intimidated and tend to sway more on that side.

It also reinforces my belief that the side that has “Imam in Spirit and essence “ will win not just the "name"

The case really reinforces that abuse of power is happening at the Secretariat by some powerful persons but in the end the "truth prevails."

Hazar Imam is always with the "weaker and true" in the divine form.

The secretary in the stud case was falsely accused and harassed and hence the judgment favored her despite the fact that “Agakhan”' himself was the “named” defendant. And “Agakhan” name did get tarnish because of the “wrong doing of his staff”. But justice was done to the weaker side and all forgeries and manipulations exposed. MHI could have easily gone for a settlement in that case .His name would have been saved. But it was not done because he is just. I am sure he had the best of lawyers even at that time.

In this case it seems to me that Gray and SS did not make a good decision of rushing for the summary judgment.

Consent judgment was very vital for the plaintiff especially SS.

If the forgery indeed has happened there is no way plaintiff will get a judgment in their favor especially the judge after reviewing this stud case is going to be very “cautious”.

If Nagib and Alnaz will get the final judgment in their favor there is a big risk of the defendants suing the forgers and this could mean a big deal. I agree with Abdul that MHI has foreseen this and hence urged defendants to withdraw the allegations of forgery against “his staff” means secretary etc only or also SS and MM? He perhaps meant all of them. That can be ugly and no one desires that.

Why did MHI not go for settlement when he came on 15th Oct 2010? Settlement would be a great injustice to the defendants and reinforcement to the wrong doers. How could he do injustice to his own murids? Who are true momins?
All believers would question their faith in Him. Also it would encourage the wrong doers to continue their practices thinking Imam in the end will come and settle for the sake of his Institutions and name. He who is just and merciful could hardly desire this.
.
It was a good option only for leaders involved in the fraud if it has indeed happened. There is a very great likelihood that it has indeed happened. Hazar Imam knows very well defendants did not want to make any money in printing Farmans. Their intentions were noble

He is definitely not the true plaintiff. He would never ever sue his devotees with so much love and dedication for spreading God’s words (Farmans), which are made for his devotees anyways! It is a completely an absurd hypothesis from the point of view of true momins and if Ismaili faith is a “true and spiritual Tarika”. I think this stud case is going to be very vital for the defendants and change the verdict in their favor.

If case goes to trial we are in for many revelations, which are needed for setting the system right. Every thing happens for a reason! All the GJ wishes and MHI’s ambitions cannot be realized unless there is a big change from status quo and mindset mentality among the Leaders of the esteemed Institutions. Only He knows the end.

* United States

Finding the 'Studs' case seems to be a fortunate coincidance
On December 11th, 2010 heritage says:

We are not sure that Alnaz "saved" this case for the last minute. On the First day of the case, Mr Gray introduced Mr "Henry Carnegie" as The Aga Khan's Lawyer that would be sitting in on this case to advise Mr Gray.

This attempt at intimidation seems to have backfired on them as, from what we understand, Alnaz fortunately found this case that actually involves discovery of this same Mr Carnegie. Alnaz made copies of this case that very evening and brought it in on the second day of the motion.

Aga Khan Lawsuit: Fraud at Aga Khan Studs - 2000-02-22

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

Wow!
On December 11th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

This is truly His "Leela".
It was indeed the perfect timing.

* United States

Finding the 'Studs' case seems to be a fortunate coincidance
On December 11th, 2010 ali (not verified) says:

you are wasting your time nagib, The truth is that you a liar and have lost this case with HH. You could not even ask 5 question to HH on OCT 15, what happened?? you got hit by lightning

* Canada

@Ali
On December 14th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Ali. Wow what a beautiful name. Our Beloved Imam Ali's name. Ali let us pray for our Spriitual Brothers Nagib and Alnaz. May Allah bring you "peace" and "happiness". Thanks.

* Canada

Questioning the Imam
On December 12th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

A true Ismaili would not insult the imam by asking him questions. Nagib left the floor open to the imam to say whatever he wanted, much better than asking questions because the imam could then say whatever wax in his mind.

Did the imam not remember his letter no. 1, or letter no. 2, or his brother's email, or his affirmation, or the allegations he made in the claim, or the announcements he authorized to be read in jks. It seems not because when the imam was given the floor, he did NOT refer to or mention anything from these things that we have been rejecting.

Mr. Gray and MHI were given the floor freely to place on the record officially to once and for all destroy our credibility and arguments.

And, wow, the record is clean, nothing said against us.

Nagib says, if Gray knew that MHI would have supported him and their position why then he went off the record. Read the transcript, as soon as MHI says, may I make a suggestion, Gray says go off the record.

What was he scared of?

* Canada

By the way, I traced your
On December 12th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

By the way, I traced your information:
IP Address: 65.92.232.218
ISP: Bell Canada
Region: Aurora (CA)

This is the same as the one who put the death threats against me and Alnaz on the Internet and the traceable IP has already been transmitted to the authorities.

Nagib

The questions were already
On December 12th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

As received

The questions were already given to Mr Gray in advance. When we arrived in Gray’s office, he was already in another room with Hazar Imam, later he told us he had prepared Hazar Imam to reply to our questions.

However Gray knew that Imam will say everything in our favour so he cleverly put off record as soon as the Imam started speaking. I was too engrossed in what the Imam was saying and did not notice that Gray had put off-line the whole conversation.

The Imam stayed half hour instead of 15 minutes, he talked about all the questions and even on issues different from Farmans and the lawsuit. He said he remembered very well the Mehmani of 1992 and the instruction he gave us to continue publishing because it was at a time when he was looking for competent people for this work. This week Gray has pleaded in front of the judge that the Imam could not remember what happened 18 years ago and Mohamed Manji was seating in the room also. Both knew Imam’s position was opposite of their position. God have mercy on them, they will need it.

Nagib
-----------

The Court may draw an inference in regards to the presence of the Imam. Gray forcefully pleaded that the presence of the Imam meant that he was the plaintiff. Though, in reality the Imam was only interested in resolving the situation and putting the issue at rest. That was the reason He came.

The other possible inference that the Court may dray is that Gray knew that the Imam will take our favour, and this is why he put everything off-record. If Gray knew Imam was with him, he would have put on record everything the Imam said. In fact the Court Recorder is supposed to note down who is in the room [she did not], what time the proceedings went off-record etc… she did nothing of this. She was supposed to confirm the transcripts with me before releasing, she released to Gray first, I was not even given her email or contact or name by Gray up to the time Gray released the transcript. There was quite a manipulation of the records, so Prothonotary Tabib ruled in a Case Conference that no evidence from Discovery can be entered by either party except by going in a new full Motion.

I could not do that because of logistics. There were few weeks between the Discovery on Oct 15th and the last Motions of December 7th; that was 2 trips for me from Kenya to Canada. Putting a Motion in between and coming from Nairobi to Toronto for cross-examination was just impossible. 3 trips in 6 weeks and having to prepare would be an expensive Herculean task.

Nagib

THE SO-CALLED “DISCOVERY” OF THE IMAM
On December 12th, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

Since the start of this lawsuit, the leadership and their spokespersons have been playing a deceitful and dirty game with Mr. Tajdin and Mr Jiwa. On one hand they sued them in open court but on the other, they want to tie their hands in defending themselves.

If the Defendants file their version of the events, they are accused of defying the Imam; if they seek to show that an affidavit is misleading, they are accused of insulting the Imam appointees.

It appears that those who started this lawsuit believe in court system only if it makes them winners; or maybe they never thought they would have to show any evidence; the Agakhan’s name would make the judge bow his head and pronounce in their favour (like they would in dictatorships in Pakistan or Tajikistan)

To properly defend themselves, when it came to the Imam’s discovery, the Defendants would have done what the Plaintiff did …..hire a high-profile International law firm and then get a barracuda lawyer to conduct Mowla’s discovery. As everyone knows, there are many in the world who would have paid for the best lawyers for a chance to “get” at our Imam. In fact, with His divorce case is still pending, even the Begum Inaara’s lawyers would have been quite interested.

Also, this lawsuit has raised historic issues of Shia and Ismaili Tariqas and it would a first time for the Imam of the Ismailis to have to respond in a free-for-all discovery process.

Even the issue of copyright law is very current for many legal practitioners as there is an untested new Copyright Act that is seeing its way through the legal world. It was the reason the Canadian Lawyer magazine was initially interested in the Agakhan lawsuit.

So with all this clutter, what do Naqib and Alnaz do?

Like true momins, they chose not to subject their Mowla to such ordeal (although to be fair, the Imam is no stranger to the courts, having been the defendant in two messy divorces and a number of other business related lawsuits.)

Instead, they stood in front of Him, tongue-tied, with centuries of devotional theology guiding their conduct. They waited for the Guru to instruct. (How can a hired gun understand the emotional turmoil in their heads as they are seated two feet across the table from Him?- Perhaps the esteemed Canadian Judge, who is Catholic, may understand why they could not x-exam their “Pope”)

So to those who make death threats against the Tajdin and Jiwa families… don’t push so hard that they really get tempted to push back. Naqib is not some illiterate peasant in Gujarat in the last century; he is a very powerful Canadian businessman, supported in this ordeal by a large network of family and friends across the globe. And Alnaz is not an artisan shoemaker in Porbander; he is an articulate Toronto lawyer, who has fought many a hardy lawsuits for his clients.

If these two really fight, this community will be torn apart. They can start by criminal charges against all those involved in the death threats, including any local leaders. At the same time, there are those who have publically libelled and slandered them including the editor of the Vancourite, who assumes he has a license to say anything because he controls a website. Then there is the opportunity to subpoena all those such as MM; SS and the Aiglemont staff who could have been involved in the initial fraud and cover-up. And finally, there is the whole question of whether there can ever be copyright in Farmans, especially if they are made for circulation.

Nagib and Alnaz have done the Ismaili community a great favour. They have conducted themselves with dignity under attack and they have chosen to limit the damage only to those directly responsible.

* Seychelles

so poignant and so
On December 15th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

so poignant and so succinctly presented. Leaders and especially Dr SS and MM did not realise before the lawsuit started nor did they seriously attempt conciliation nor even contacted Alnaz before filing the Lawsuit..

Bloglaw quoted Imam's farman in which Imam directs leaders and wishes resolution of differences always by arbitration, friendship and discussion internally and therefore not to broadcast externally.

Why are leaders not willing to meet and sit down with Alnaz and Nagib and resolve the only Issue. See Bloglaw comment in Vancouvertie below

Comment by bloglaw in Vancouverite December 13, 2010 Thank you. Indeed it would be wonderful if the case was settled today and there was a LIF announcement to that effect. Maybe there will be.

There is one, and only one issue. That is admission of infringement. The reasons why admission should not be an issue are as follows;

a. The sanctity of Mehmani of 1992, and the tsignificance and radition of acceptance of Mehmani generally by Hazar Imam directly and also in JK will have been and needs to be respected and preserved
b. The Farman made in 1992 during Mehmani does not need to be changed since Leaders in any event will be working together with our 2 brothers going forward (As directed by MHI)
c. The sanctity and tradition of following Farmans until they are changed will have been respected and preserved.
d. Legally a consent without admission does not give Imam legally any more or less legal protection from external infringements in future by either the 2 murids or anyone else > So why make this an issue.
e. Alnaz Jiwa and Nagib Tajdin have confirmed that they will abide by all Imam’s directions and guidance. Therefore if in the unlikely event Imam’s guidance becomes necessary in future on any matter, Imam may do so at his pleasure.
f. By settling this case in this way we will be following Imam’s guidance on resolving issues internally by conciliation, by discussion and friendship as brothers and sisters. This will have a very positive consequential impact internally and externally.
g. Hazar Imam did not make this a specific pre condition on 15 October 2010

h. All resulting and consequential issues arising can and will be resolved by by the Leaders by discussion, friendship and together in accordance with Farmans by Hazar Imam.

Unfortunately there have been no meetings and yet there is every reason for meetings and agreement based on the above reasons to agree and conclude this case.

I have been praying and continue to pray for conciliation and agreement. Leaders are aware and I do not need to post your comment and my response in the Heritage site.

* United Arab Emirates

@Porbander
On December 13th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Abdul what made you use Potbander as an example? Wow, no one knows my special connection with this town, and I am shocked and amazed at the same time seeing you used this town out of the hundreds others you could have referred to!!!

* Canada

Touching comments....
On December 13th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Every so often, I read comments by readers which are so touching and goes to the heart and essence of the situation facing us. This is one of them. Both Nagib and I have an agenda: do only what is required to defend but to avoid at any costs any steps that would be harmful to the interests of the Jamat and the Imam. Despite the optics of it all, both of us deeply love our Imam, and would gladly give our lives for Him and His Jamats.

I am ever so grateful for the many people who understand the situation and support us with encouragement and prayers. I am also so very grateful to my family who have endured, in some ways even more so than what I have faced, and have remained steadfast behind me despite the public humiliation hurled at them as well. I know that some extended family of mine as well as some family friends have cut off relation with us which causes pain to my family, but in the name of the Imam, all is tolerated, lovingly. I am in awe of their support despite the extreme situation.

The icing on the cake was the Mulakat with our Imam, which went so very well for us, which has brought so much peace and contentment in our lives. Day in and night out I constantly offer my gratitude and shukr for the blessing to serve our Imam and His Jamats. And for all the prayers that are sent our way, by so many of my brothers and sisters, I have no words to express my thanks, even if I tried to I could not express how I feel about it.

* Canada

True momins and foundation of "batuni faith" Esoteric concept.
On December 13th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

True momins
I agree Nagib and Alnaz are true momins. They indeed have fulfilled all the criteria of true momins per Ginans and Farmans. They have steadfastly followed batuni Ismaili faith and showed their love for their murshid.

Leadership on the other hand has shown ruthless ness, contempt and arrogance. Sticking steadfastly, without doubts to our batuni faith I am still convinced that the ruling will be in favor of the defendants. I do not see a quick closure as yet.
The reason MHI is not intervening in the manner everyone would expect is there must a be a lofty goal. His personal cases or stud cases were purely “Dunyavi”, even though he is omnipotent he has accepted defeat in stud case and trials and tribulations in divorce cases following the norms of the courts and society because his life is exemplary.

But this case apparently dunyavi to many in reality is “Dini” and involves the foundational beliefs of “Ismaili Batuni faith” where “spirit” is the most important and our doctrinal issues are at risk of getting tarnished. Didar and Mehmanis are purely spiritual matters where the soul of the murid is expected to be in direct contact with the holy spirit and communication is done at spiritual levels. Hence when hundreds of thousands are sitting for deedar each soul present is communicating with his pleas earnestly to his Mawla who is Hazar Imam the Noor of Allah the Master spirit. The murids receive the blessings on each of these pleas made silently by the hearts and we believe he listens and grants us our wishes. No one gets written approvals! But we all experience the bliss and benefits in our lives and no doubt, otherwise we will not be continuing to be Ismailis and we would not travel thousands of miles for the “deedar” which is not easy to receive.

Faith is a matter of love and spirit. There are no written contracts. How can anyone question the validity of such approval?
To deny its validity is to deny batuni faith. How can a catholic judge understand these complex spiritual concepts?

The reason why Farmans are made by MHI but withheld by the leaders in high authority? Why they themselves do not obey the Farmans and where are the accurate copyright law regarding Farmans written? Why did MHI not mention even once in His GJ Farmans that no one must share and circulate His Farmans? How can there be copyright on God’s words? They are made for the sole purpose of circulation and implementation.

Jamat must not seek to courts instead seek conciliation within the community, Pluralism, Tolerance for others, protection of weaker, brotherhood, unity all these teachings of Ismaili faith, why none of it is followed in this case by the leaders and Institutions?

MHI who is teaching these ethics how can He be the one to break it? . There is no way he would ever do it in a million years. Hence he is not the real plaintiff.

On this single premise my heart tells me again and again no matter what will continue in the court in the final analysis the defendants will be the winners and Hazar Imam in spirit and essence is with them. He is not the real plaintiff His name has been used by powerful leaders to achieve their mean goals.

In His personal cases he will not use his “divine authority” but for His momins he will most certainly use it I guarantee!!

Patience is one of the most important character traits of the Imams in the past and present. They have never rushed in for anything without wisdom. Hence “sabar” however hard it is to practice is the most beneficial tool besides bandagi and Ibadat in times of difficulties and calamities. Complete submission to His will without doubt and “vasvasa” is one of the most important requisite to obtain His mercy and full-blown assistance and victory. Love for the Imam is the foundation of our faith and the promise by Imams has always been you have nothing to worry if you have love for your Hazar Imam. (In this one sentence is the entire essence of our Tarika (Farman ISMS)

I confirm Nagib and Alnaz will be helped by MHI in a way no one can even imagine or fathom Inshallah.

* United States

Checks & Balances are ineffective
On December 11th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

@Abdul; There are excellent systems in place with excellent checks and balances. You are right that they are ineffective. This is demonstrated clearly maybe a tip of the iceberg. The reason. Over the last 15 to 20 years, the systems have been managed, controlled & routed by the same Leaders in question. A pervasive culture and mindset has developed which seems to be motivated by command and egos designed to maintain the status quo at all costs. Hence there is more & growing levels of mediocrity and nepotism, rather than more meritocracy.

Information and internal reports edited under this mindset and culture, are therefore bound to be incomplete and inaccurate at best. This is demonstrated clearly in the sworn testimony of SS, and no meetings for conciliation since 15 October 2010. This would certainly have not been the case if the checks and balance were followed, enabled and empowered by the Leaders.

There are leaders down the line doing excellent work within the system. There are also a host of excellent, competent, and loyal murids out there who are ready willing and able to help and serve. Leaders need to change or be changed replace the present culture of fear with that of comfort and brotherhood. This will therefore enable and empower a more constructive interaction and expression of ideas and actions, all working side by side.

Imam encourages leaders and us all to seek and share knowledge. Imam knows leaders are not sharing. Imam informed and reminded us in Farmans in London and Singapore because Imam wants us to seek and share knowledge amongst ourselves. This includes Farmans. According to the lawsuit, all Farmans are available in all JK's.

Therefore Leaders down the line, and the Jamat should give feedback and approach leaders with questions of concerns about any matter including issues highlighted in this lawsuit. This will also help to make sure that the systems and institutional checks and balances are effective and working for the benefit of the Jamat.

* United Kingdom

Love for Imam and Jamat
On December 11th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

@ Bloglaw It sems Leaders involved do not share Farmans and guidance with the Jamat because there is not enough unconditional love from the heart for the Imam or the Jamat. They say all Farmans are available in all Jk to the Jamat, when they are effectively not.

If there was Dr SS, MM and those involved closely in this since Jan 2010 would have followed Farmans and Imam's guidance on differences with murids to be resolved always by discussion and friendship. And there would be effective checks and balances, and this lawsuit would not have not started, and if it did then it would have been settled by now.

The only issue since 15 Oct 2010 is admission of infringement. Dr SS & MM want this admission at the expense of our rites and ceremonies (Mehmani) which Imam in his Farmans wishes us to protect, continue and preserve. In this case the question is also what will be the meaning and significance of Mehmani's to Imam and in JK. in the future ?

Alnaz Jiwa and Nagib Tajdin have signed the consent as directed by Imam. They are following the wishes and directions from Hazar Imam out of love for the Imam irrespective of the consequences. How many murids, panjebhai's, panjebahenu's, and fidais would also do so and agree with them.?

@ Zenaatara I agree with you and I hope our brothers and sisters will want to ask out of love for the Imam and let not fear any consequences. Imam is and will be with all His murids.

Dr SS MM and the leaders can still seek guidance & conciliation to conclude this case . It is never too late for conciliation and dialogue.

* United Arab Emirates

CHARLTON VS HH AGAKHAN'S STUDS CASE
On December 10th, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

Just finished reading the interesting Feb 2000 judgement of Mr. Justice Declan Budd.

What stands out starkly are very strong language used by the Hon. Judge about the conduct of Defendant (the Imam's horse farm). He called the Defendant's conduct “misleading and a snare and a deception to the Court” and spoke of “the illegal, deceptive and misleading deletion of portions of the memo”

The Judge went on::

“I take the view that the Court should mark strong disapproval of the conduct of the Defendant Société in

(a) Fighting the motion before Laffoy J. when documents in the possession of the Société, including the Coulton memo, and knowledge of the role of Mr. Faughnan as head of security and as a person with a perceived vested interest in the mode and outcome of the inquiry made him an obviously inappropriate person to conduct the inquiry.

(b) Prevarication, obfuscation and obstruction in the conduct of the motions before this Court in -

(1) failure to nominate persons to make affidavits of discovery,

(2) by failure to nominate Solicitors to accept service on behalf of agents of the Société outside the jurisdiction and causing delays and difficulty by contending that agents of the Société did not have authority to hire and fire employees when averments in the affidavits and signed documents manifest the contrary in practice.

(c) Persistent prolongation of these proceedings by maintenance of what transpired to be quite untenable stances on issue after issue, for example, by firstly the contention that Mr. Faughnan was an appropriate person to conduct the inquiry and, secondly, the contention that Mr. Downes was an
appropriate person to conduct the inquiry. Notification had already been given by the Plaintiff’s Solicitor that Mr. Downes was likely to be a prospective witness and that he had involvement in the subject-matter of the inquiry, having been Mr. Drion’s assistant manager. Thirdly, by simply ignoring the suggestion made that in a prestigious and world-wide
organisation such as the Defendant, there must be other employees or agents not previously intimately involved, or at least the Defendant could have engaged a person (as with Mr. Magee in the Drion inquiry) who would have been an appropriate person to carry out an impartial inquiry or investigation in respect of the Plaintiff.

(d) Persistently breaching Court Orders.

(e) Deceiving the Court by non-disclosure of relevant documents such as the Coulton memo of 18th June, 1998. Trust was further eroded by the delay by the Defendant in the production of the Coulton letter hiring Diane Kavanagh and especially the failure to produce the third page thereof
which, when eventually produced, revealed that Mr. Coulton had signed the hiring letter on behalf of the Defendant. It is not for the Defendant to choose which documents will be discovered or which documents will have expurgations particularly when such documents embarrass the Defendant’s
case.

(f) Compounding and aggravating this deception of the Court by deleting relevant passages from the Coulton memo which included excisions which altered the meaning and excluded obviously significant and relevant
passages from the memo.“

The Judge even considered a prison sentence on the Defendant but then gave them a last minute reprieve because they had cooperated just before the hearing in his court. In any event, he was so disgusted with them that he ordered full costs on a solicitor and client basis (i.e actual costs not standards fees) against the Imam and his organisation.

What was clear was his very high regard for Mowla and His family. Whilst he implied that he did not consider the Imam to have been directly responsible for the conduct of his servants, he did remark on the mysterious destruction of a key document by the Imam personally.

It seems Mowla recognises that the power of the courts in these situations and it must be because of this case that why He specifically asked Tajdin to withdraw the allegations of fraud against His secretary, which Tajdin graciously did

What is emerging is a pattern of conduct by senior people around the Imam. What is so baffling is how people in the Imam’s regime are able to get away with all the shenanigans, fraud etc. We all understand that the Imam personally must be quite busy with his vast philanthropic work, his extensive business investments and his complicated family matters. But surely there must be a system in place to act as a check and balance on the vast amount of power and assets that Aiglemont manages?

However, after reading SS sworn testimony (under a very friendly x-examination), it seems frightening that the spiritual and material affairs of millions of Ismailis may be in the hands of such an obviously incompetent person.

Inshallah, with T&K Mowla will soon get leaders who are equally competent as loyal and certainly not outright dishonest as the above case shows.

* Seychelles

The difference between the 2 cases
On December 11th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

The comforting part in copyright infringement case is it deals with the "Din" more than "Duniya" and I am anticipating
MHI's spiritual authority to come into play which was not needed in the above mentioned stud case which was purely "Duniyavi" matter.

I have faith very much in the spiritual component. Inshallah these 2 murids will be helped by their Murshid.

* United States

Allahtalla differentiate between "believers" and "acceptors"
On December 9th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. BLOGLAW! Al Waezeen Abu Ali is a man of unique and exceptional personality! His strong belief in Ismailism cannot be compared and measured to any standard of some books which have come into market on Ismailism. Al Waezeen Abu Ali was a protagonist of impassioned and passionate aficionado of Ismailism.

The symbolic of Mehmani and its relevance is celebrated in everyday life of an Ismaili Muslim. Respectively it is beneficial manifestly in both lives of an Ismaili Muslim – secularly and spiritually. Palpably the Mehmani is considered and significantly in contemplation of inner thoughts of an Ismaili Muslim to seek Almighty Allah’s grace and blessing on all felicitous occasions.

Mawlana Hazar Imam is the spiritual father of all Ismaili Muslims and He is also our Imam of the time. We seek His loving blessing via Mehmani, Dua, Imam’s Noorani Deedar, and in many other religious ceremonies. Mawlana Hazar Imam is omnipotence, and philanthropic. Our Tariquah is practiced for innumerable years, which goes way back to inception of Ismailism.

I agree with Alnaz (not verified, dated December 09, 2010, who says: Quote, In the Quran, Allahtalla had differentiated between "believers" and "acceptors" of Islam, and in the Quran only certain Ayats are addressed to the believers which we Ismailis abide by in letter and in spirit. For those who have no faith, firstly will not read; secondly, even if read or heard will not enter the "heart," unquote. I am praying that this case is settled by amicably. With my affectionate prayers for all my Ismaili Muslims brethren, and with Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

News: The hearing is closed
On December 9th, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

The hearing is closed and the judgment will come soon we hope. Lets see what happens. A lot of issues were discussed in front of the judge and normally Motions would pass if the matter is very simple. By complicating Motions, the outcome can be that both motions are dismissed and a mini-trial is possible.

Gray pleaded so many thing in contradiction of what the Imam instructed on 15 October. I could not believe it. For example, Gray completely disregarded Hazar Imam's statement from that day that he remembered the instruction given to us about continuing the publications of Farman, Gray pleaded the opposite.

Gray admitted that what they were seeking was a declaration that we have infringed. It was apparent that this was more a vendetta.

Nagib

The case will go for trial it seems .
On December 11th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

From what I gather from the "Vancouverite's version of court proceedings and judge's remarks , judge may not be sympathetic to the defendants. Summary judgement seems unlikely for either side.Trial seems very likely.

* United States

@Nagib re: above post of Dec. 9th
On December 10th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for updating us, Nagib.
Indeed, for the past few weeks, it has been utterly clear that the whole matter is nothing but seeking a revenge. "Eeloko nè kètli adèkhay hassè, ya Mowla !" I hope that the judge could see that... Madad, Mowla, madad.
If this period of waiting is so hard for us, the readers and the "carers" (forgive the newly invented word!), how much harder it must be for you, Nagib, Alnaz, and your families...
Thank God we have our tasbihs to give us solace.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Normally how long for the judgement?
On December 9th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Any idea how long does the judge take normally?

* United States

Judgment, how long...
On December 11th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

There is no fixed time, I expect the judge to issue it in a few weeks, maybe four, or so.

* Canada

Thank you Nagib and Alnaz
On December 9th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

We continue to pray. Ameen

* Canada

News from the case: Massive fraud?
On December 9th, 2010 heritage says:

As Gray had been trying to tell the judge that it is not conceivable that there was massive fraud against the Aga Khan by those who started the lawsuit, Alnaz, at the end of his pleadings, presented a case from 2000 where it has happened before: that there had indeed been fraud in the Aga Khan's domain by the Aga Khan's agents. See link below:

Aga Khan Lawsuit: Fraud at Aga Khan Studs - 2000-02-22

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

FRAUD in 1998 at Aga Khan Studs: Extracts
On December 10th, 2010 heritage says:

Summary and extracts showing:

- How a document forgery was perpetrated by a high ranking agent of the Aga Khan to cover up that agent's own possible involvement in a large fraud.

- How this forgery was done on behalf of the Aga Khan and His Societe Civile

- How this agent attempted to mislead the Irish High Court in order to prejudice it and divert blame to a secretary

- How this nevertheless became a very long court battle that was made to look like a former secretary was conducting a lawsuit against the Aga Khan.

Fraud in Aga Khan lawsuit at Irish Studs in 1998: Explanations and Extracts - 2010-12-10

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

Thank you and Nagib. The
On December 9th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Thank you and Nagib. The relevant sentence in that lawsuit is "In his affidavit, the Aga denied having given any instructions for the termination of Charlton's employment "

It seems highly improbable that the only one issue remianing of whether there was Infringement will be settled by agreement as directed by Hazar Imam.

So the lawsuit is likely to go on

* United Arab Emirates

TAJDIN & JIWA DESERVE OUR THANKS@Abdul
On December 8th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Very well said, I hope that we'll have some news about what happened today...

* Canada

@librarian Umed
On December 8th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Please can you give some update on what happened in the court on 7th dec?

* United States

It's still going...
On December 8th, 2010 heritage says:

It is a 2-day motion, so it is still going on right now.
We hear that everyone has spoken once already,
Oral representations should be over after closing summations this afternoon.

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

Will you kindly provide an
On December 8th, 2010 layman (not verified) says:

Will you kindly provide an update whenever you get a chance about the happenings during the hearings?

* United States

Significance of Mehmani ?
On December 7th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Editor of Vancouverite says Al Waezeens like AbuAli sometimes do not comprehend the significance of Mehmani ? “ When good people like Abu Ali talk about the significance of symbolic offerings they are generally talking to people who use these occasions for appropriate purposes. Good people such as Abu Ali sometimes do not comprehend how such significant gestures, one-to-one occasions, can be used for corporate business. ………. So let’s make one thing clear. You Bloglaw, are a blatantly shameless protagonist of violation of good faith…”

Bloglaw replies : So Mr Editor are you suggesting Imam does not comprehend the significance too? What about Mehmani when someone start a business for blessings and Baraka (Barkat). What about mehmani for man murad in presence of Imam and also in JK ?. Your response suggests you have not fully understood what Mehmani means and how important it is for us as Ismailies. I suggest you speak to one of our Scholars and or Waezeens regarding our rites and ceremonies, who can deal with all your questions intellectually and referencing them to related resources and material so you can have a full understanding of mehmani. Maybe you should also read Abu Ali's Article and AL Waez Kamaluddin's on rites and ceremonies. ITREB will also have articles you can read. Maybe you should also one of Allama Nasiruddin Hunzia’s book on this subject too. You will find all Al Waezeens like Abu Ali and our Scholars understand the significance of mehmani and Farmans that go or are delivered with them.

I am praying that this case is settled by agreement today.

* United Kingdom

Vancourite and Mehmani !!
On December 9th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Bloglaw, Salim Jiwa (editor) had confirmed to me in an earlier telephone conversation that he knows nothing about our Jamati affairs, and that for a long time he has not participated in same. For such people these (mehmanis, duas, Imam's reach, etc.) are hard concepts to believe in and/or to understand. In the Quran, Allahtalla had differentiated between "believers" and "acceptors" of Islam, and in the Quran only certain Ayats are addressed to the believers which we Ismailis abide by in letter and in spirit.

For those who have no faith, firstly will not read, secondly, even if read or heard will not enter the "heart".

* Canada

Paragon of Love of God and Patience.
On December 7th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Here is a beautiful story, though it is from a different faith, telling us how much we should love our Maula.

This event is taken from unabridged Ramayana. It was in the form of a story, a part of my Hindi syllabus when I was a high school student at India. The event is related to 7th Avatar of lord Vishnu, namely Ram. The main story is a very long one but only a gist of which has been provided here.
Shabari, 13, a child of low cast Bhill community, was by nature had a religious inclination. She had been a witness to a many irreligious acts of her parents, particularly his father. So one day, she left home for forest with the hope that she could find a shelter in an Ashram of a saint. After few days of journey and hungry, she reached the Ashram of a prominent saint, Matang, who was kind enough to provide her shelter in his Ashram where Shabri started serving him. The saint observed that Shabri has all the characteristics required of an ardent follower of lord Vishnu, and accordingly, instead of imparting theoretical knowledge of scriptures, she was given practical religious knowledge, particularly devotion and love toward Vishnu.
One day, some years later, when she was of middle age, the saint announced pleasant news to her: "Lord Vishnu has taken Avatar in the palace of king Dasharath and his name is Ram. I would like to have his Darshan but I would not live long. But I see in you such love, devotion and Bhakti that he himself will visit you one day to bestow you with his Darshan. Your sincere love will bring him here." After few days the saint expired.

Due to a devious plot set by his step mother, and also to save the honor of his father, Ram willingly abandoned his rights to Ayodthya's throne. He along with his wife and his brother Laxaman left the kingdom and proceeded to forest to spend next fourteen years there.

Each day, Shabari would go to the jungle early in the morning and used to pluck juicy, fresh berry fruits so that she could offer them to Lord Ram, in case he arrives unexpectedly. To ensure that they are all sweet, she would taste each and every berry retaining only the sweet ones and discarding the bitter ones. She never realized that she should not taste them before they were offered (Mehmani?) to her Lord. It is the pattern or custom of almighty that He always overlooks all such faults and mistakes that one commits, arising out of pure Love of Him and which are not the intentions of His devotees. Perhaps it was a part of his Leela(લીલા). As per her usual routine, she would use to eagerly anticipate Ram’s arrival each day. Many years passed; she was now very old woman.
One noon, Shabari saw two men and a woman approaching the Ashram. She instantly recognizes her lord Ram as a taller man; she became ecstatic and at their arrival she said, "O my Lord, I do not have anything to offer other than my heart, but here are some berries from a poor devotee of yours. May it please you.”
When Ram started eating berries, Lakshmana, the younger brother of Ram, raised the apprehension that berries had already been tasted and hence unworthy of eating. To this Ram said, "Many types of food I tasted so far nothing could equal these berry fruits, not even foods of our palace." Saying this, he ate all the berries, and at the same time occasionally smiling at her, indicating that he was appreciating and thanking her food.

Many yogis wanted Ram to visit their ashrams, but he went only to Shabari's ashram. After he had eaten all the berries, Ram told Shabari, "I have come straight to your Ashram only, ignoring all the invitations I had from many many yogis and saints. Over powered by sentiment she said, "O my lord, they are all exalted and erudite yogis waiting for Your darshan, I am ugly, old and low cast woman having no knowledge of any scriptures, and hence I am not worthy of your so much attention."
Ram replied, “ A person's caste, colour, physical experience or his knowledge is irrelevant to me. They are all worldly things. What is important is recognition of my reality. There are many people in the kingdom who respect and love me as a prince, but none knows my reality, who I am. Erudite, learned religious persons please me, but nothing excels pure love of my devotee who knows my real identity. Many people pray to Lord Vishnu, but don't know who Vishnu is."
"All saints have their own selfish desires and motives behind their Bhakti, their affection, their prayers, their love. Some of them are after their names, some for fame, some want heaven, some salvation (Mox,મોક્ષ). Hardly anyone loves me for shake of love without any selfish motive. I like those who totally surrender to me and me only with full faith and devotion. They are the best among all the people, however, they are very rare .O Shabari, but you are one of them."
"In your case, O Shabari, your devotion and love is pure, you have no selfish desire or motive. You love me for shake of love. Your aim and goal is I and I only. Because of your pure love, spiritually, I was always with you, and now I am with you physically."
After this, the trio left the Ashram.
It is said that as soon as the trio left the Ashram, Shabri left this world too to meet his lord Vishnu in the next world.

Reply to Kasamali
On December 7th, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

Brother Kasamali,
You have brought tears to my eyes. Of course I have heard this story of Shabri from my mother, but you have indeed articulated it so well. True love for the Imam is such a simple concept, and yet so difficult to achieve, and so rare as Lord Ram puts it. It is so easy to let self agendas prevail and even easier to confuse these with love. How can someone who truly loves the Imam tolerate even for a second anybody behaving insultingly in the Imam's presence? But yet, majority are still quiet because their self agenda of shielding themselves from retaliation has prevailed over love...

Anyway I thank you from the bottom of my heart for this touching reminder of true love.

Sister Zeenatara.

@Kasamali
On December 7th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

beautiful story!
Thanks for sharing.
I think Mawla came to Canada on oct 15th for the 2 defendants.
Rest all was make believe.

* United States

Your interest in my blog is appreciated!
On December 7th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. MOMIN, (United Arab Emirates). Dated: December 05, 2010.

Whatever I have mollycoddle in my expression in both websites – the Vancouverite and the Ismaili.Net, I never deceived any persons who have expressed on these websites. I have honestly expressed whatever I felt was feasible, acceptable, and adequate to make my views known to all readers so that the provocation, appeasements, and premeditated charges would not embarrass me! I am very contented with what I have and what I have lost. Both the Vancouverite and the Ismaili.Net have been kind to me to accept my blogs, of course, once in awhile my blogs did not merit the space but this is not the criticism but appreciation for their readiness to lend to me a hand to caution to me to rethink and have second thoughts on my views and thoughts. Finally, your interest in my blog is appreciated! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

TAJDIN & JIWA DESERVE OUR THANKS
On December 6th, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

We should all wish Mr. Tajdin and Mr Jiwa good luck tomorrow.

Throughout history, when simple people have risen up against unfairness, it has always been a David and Goliath struggle. In this situation, besides absolute power, there are the additional factors of fraud, deceit, betrayal and blackmail. Whilst we can admire the Defendants faith in the Canadian justice system, we should be under no illusion about their chances of success. There are very few judges in this country who would not be influenced by the prestige of Mowla’s name, particularly if they were unaware that it was been misused.

However, one thing is for sure. Nagib and Alnaz have set in motion the forces of change and win or lose tomorrow, they will have achieved the objective of opening up this community for scrutiny. There are many words thrown around about the Ismaili leadership, such as progressive, tolerant, pluralist, constitutional etc. Now we have clear picture as to how these lofty concepts are actually practised in our jamaat.

The results of the past few months are not very pretty. Naive momims, who have tried to test these concepts have been publicly condemned without a chance to explain themselves and death threats have been made against them; top leaders have been found to be so inept and clueless that they are an embarrassment to the name of the community and so-called educated Ismailis (including a self-styled “scholar” and an “experienced” “journalist) have shown themselves to be no better than the Taleban.

And most of the jamaat leadership has been exposed as so weak, that when they have to face some tough questions about their community affairs, they would rather bury their heads in the sand. Yet these are the same people, who will make jokes and condemn the Catholics priests or Sunni mullahs for their shortcomings. My, such hypocrisy!!

But all this is out in the open for the world to see.

Try as they can, they will not be able to “put the genie back into the bottle”. Young Ismails are already asking questions to Mukhis. The women (who generally tend to be more introspective) have started questioning the values systems they have been imparting on their children since immigrating here. The supreme power of money in Ismaili society; the "chamchagiri" and recycling of leaders; the deference to “saber” when it comes to bad leadership and the scramble for credit for even the most mediocre achievements. The future of this community is with the young. So far they were not even interested in coming to the JK. Now they want answers and change !

Mr. Tajdin and Mr. Jiwa deserve our thanks for waking us out of our cynicism and slumber-they have already won the Agakhan Lawsuit in the court of intelligent Ismaili opinion.

* Seychelles

Leaders appointed by Hazar Imam
On December 6th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad. I have said this before that we need to have lots of "changes" in our community, which our leaders are responible for, e.g. more communications with Jamat, trust, etc. Lot of Ismailis have brought this issue to their attention, and I personally feel that the matter should now be left in the hands of Our Beloved Hazar Imam.

I recall, my father once telling me that, a Murid who was not happy with a particular leader, brought the matter to the attention of Hazar Imam. Hazar Imam told the Murid that he would look into the matter. Mowla also said to him that this particular leader's "seva" was from the time of Hazrat Ali.

We human beings can forget somebody's "ahesan", but Our Mowla will never forget, despite what he has to go through. Thank you.

* Canada

Dr SS has not replied to Bloglaw
On December 6th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

@ Alibhai Thank you. I have not received an acknowledgement or a reply to the open letter from Dr. Sachedina. Maybe because I requested him to share that information with other Leaders and did not request him to respond to me. But Judging by his reply to Zeenat, we cannot be certain if he has instead not sent a similar letter to all leaders.

@ our parents : It is wonderful to meet and spend time with small groups of elderly parents and talk not to them, not about them, but with them about religious & material values, needs and changes. One of Imam’s GJ goals is our elderly parents. I (Jamat) don’t get information updates on this or see pictures & events/projects for them in the official website and on how is TKN doing. On TKN 3 years on, there have been software matching challenges (why?) and it is systemically flawed because it allows those who request to then choose if or not. Not to say this is not working but can do better and more.

@ BUI; Remembering we are all born equal and pure in mind and body. We then begin to learn about right and wrong, love and hate, respect and intolerance. charity and business, faith & family values, and everything else. In our formative years we learn from mainly our parents and teachers. Just Imagine, how far further we would be as a community if top priority was given by our top leader as directed by Hazar Imam to an inclusive BUI and early years programs. @ Yasmin you are so right our values and ethics are a reflection of what we say and do. I hope and will look forward to meeting you too one day.

@ Professional; You are right in what you say about professionals and the leaders in question. Not all leaders and remembering also the leaders in question have have worked hard and contributed to progress. There are some excellent scholars and intellectuals who can engage creatively and effectively for specifically the professionals and the intellectuals. We have an institutional culture of command and control which in reality does not welcome and encourage enquiry and critique. Professionals mean more enquiry about the past, the root causes and the needs. Only by critiquing and learning from the past can we seize the future more successfully. Alibhai I am a professional and I hope we will meet and share more.

@ Ground realities ; Mr Shivji like most was going through a learning curve regarding the unbelievable gap between what Imam wishes and the reality on the ground. He also likes to please everyone and there has been no platform such as this before. Who would have believed our top leader can be arrogant, & does not follow Imam’s farmans and at best is deliberately giving the wrong information to the Imam and to leaders. For example If he with MM and A Lakhani had said at the end of march 2010 to Hazar Imam “Khudavand, we as leaders have not spoken to Alnaz Jiwa as yet and the Jamat do not have access to Farmans in all JK’s or in all remote locations, and we have not used our internal conciliation process etc, We seek your guidance on what we should do and if the lawsuit should still be filed “ Does anyone believe Imam would have even considered a lawsuit ? In fact he would be very angry and upset that the Leaders should even ask him to repeat his Farmans on conciliation and to leaders to resolve internally and not broadcast differences.(Assuming for one moment Imam authorized the Lawsuit).

@ Dr SS ; Now Dr SS says to Zeenat he is following Imam’s wishes and his conscientious is clear, instead of explaining and apologising regarding her specific concerns of for example saying Imam thinks in French and speaks in English which is the reason to edit Farmans and Imam has said on 15 Oct 2010, Imam does not edit but annotates Farmans. So why edit and remove leaders sections in the London and Singapore GJ Farmans.

I hope and continue to pray that this lawsuit is settled tomorrow and by agreement. Ameen.

* United Kingdom

Agree with Bloglaw and Murid
On December 6th, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

You are correct, Brother Bloglaw, and I hope all our comments and wishes will be fulfilled by Mowla.
Ameen.
At the same time, I would pray that they are having an effect on Dr SS and other leaders to the extent that henceforth they will show adab in the presence of the Imam and also treat the jamat with more respect by readily sharing with us our Imam's exact words and thoughts (without any editing), inshallah.

Take care, Brother Bloglaw and all my other brothers and sisters on this site, and let us all pray together fervently for the dawn of a new era.

With love,
Sister Zeenatara.

Ameen Ameen
On December 7th, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

Ameen Ameen

* United Arab Emirates

A challenge to Dr. Sachedina
On December 6th, 2010 Another Ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

Dear Doctor:

Please do not remain under misunderstanding (illusion) that people and other leaders like you or respects you. Some of them do so because you are holding a very important post. Do you want to gauge your popularity? If yes, resign from the post and soon you will see that everyone including even Mr.Bhaloo, Mr. Manji or Vancouverite editor will start keeping distance from you, as soon as they come to know that you are resigning.

HI’s Advice
On December 6th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Two extra rich and very prominent Ismaili industrialist brothers in Pakistan quarreled among themselves. The situation got so worsened that son of the elder brother drew a gun at his uncle. Both brothers were very influential as well as heads of respective central AK institution and hence had contacts with HI too. Muala advised them not to approach court to settle the dispute. Since both brothers were good Ismailis, they followed Maula’s advice.
Wether they have settled their all the matters or not is not known, but none of them went to the court.
My point is: How, then, it is possible that HI filed a suit against His unarmed ordinary Murids.

Well done Zeenatara!
On December 5th, 2010 Suleman (not verified) says:

Wow! I can't believe that you actually sent SS your letter and even received a response. I thought that people just write things on this site but are not really brave and sincere enough to actually do what they are saying. So I am amazed with you, Sister Zeenatara. Not only did you really send your letter to SS but you actually got a response and now you've even replied to that fickle response. Double wow! I will now jump upon the bandwagon and be brave also. Please provide me with SS's email so that I too may write to him and aprise him of my opinions. For the sake of being politically correct, kindly email it to me at hali78650@gmail.com

Writing to leaders........
On December 5th, 2010 @Zeenatara, Suleman etc. (not verified) says:

Copies of correspondence to SS should be sent to the LIF head, Azim Lakhani, and ask him to respond as well, ask Lakhani whether he has confirmed directly with MHI of the lawsuit that have taken place, and/or whether he has confirmed with MHI directly concerning the announcement that was made in JKs in April.

Asking questions is encouraged by MHI in 1992 India visit.

Alnaz

* Canada

Leaders dont know because ?
On December 5th, 2010 momin (not verified) says:

bloglaw replies in vancouverite;

Nazneen – I am happy you find peace when you listen to Waeez’s especially AbuAli’s. I hope in addition to Abu Ali’s Waaz’s you will also be able to read and listen to Imam’s Farmans & speeches in all JK’s when you wish and need to. I was reading Abu Ali’s articles and in 2004 he said that the significance of our rites and ceremonies have never been taught in RE-BUI since 1948 ?

Is that true and if so, is that the reason why Leaders and many dont understand the significance of mehmani ? If so Abu Ali and other missionaries/Al Waezeens can and do expalin. Therefore is it not most important to preserve this tradition in also this lawsuit ? Abu ali also sayd ITREB are discontinuing some traditions which they should not ? If any one of you doubt what Abu Ali said I will be happy to let you have the article.

Mr Shivji – I see you like to find ways to be nice to everyone here and on the other site. What about pauvre moi (poor me)? (: just a joke. Thanks you Mr Shivji.

I continue to pray for a settlement by agreement today or tomorrow. Ameen

If true no wonder and is the significance and all rites and ceremonies a part of the curricula and programs since 2004 ?

* United Arab Emirates

Who & what are murids resenting ?
On December 4th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

News Editor Vancouverite December 4, 2010 – “I just wonder if these people live within the Ismaili community and understand the resentment that has built up – or are they living in some dream world of their own surrounded by supportive people. What I am picking up is unheard of resentment from the community”

Reply by bloglaw December 4, 2010 - Editor – Thank you for sharing. Seriously how many have you spoken to, or is this what you have been told by a leader or two. Or is this your gut feeling? Leaders are not responding because they have been directed not to.

Resentment shows when you speak in a derisive or demeaning way about a person or a group of people, you have distressing thoughts about them, you get furious for no good reason, get inexplicably angry and depressed, you find yourself going in circles to overcome irrational or negative feelings, you grit your teeth and smile when you really want to scream, you fake enthusiasm and excitement when you really need to say what you are feeling, but cant.

And what is Resentment :It is harboring animosity against a person or group of people whom you feel have mistreated you and leaving you in a seething, aching and an emotional turmoil, long-term suffering in silence, open expression of hurt (feedback or critique) is unwanted and uninvited, a grudge you hold against a person or group of people. You feeling offended, do not speaking and remaining silent, and lack of forgiving, inability to let go, or to forgive. Resentment can also lead to lack of objectivity and purpose.

So Editor, who are the Jamat resenting ? Can you elaborate more specifically. This can apply in this lawsuit to many , those commenting, silent, and to Dr SS, MM, Gray, Alnaz Nagib, AK and other leaders. Maybe what you are picking up is resentment from lack of information, feed back, knowledge or understanding or open expression of hurt (feedback or critique) is unwanted and uninvited or really encouraged by Leaders in question.

We also need to be careful we say what we mean as those reading comments are global and from a diverse background and languages. So please don’t think I am trying say you don’t know the meanings of resentment. You probably know better than me.

* United Kingdom

Why share with every
On December 4th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Why do I respond to all Murids and share my thoughts with all. @ Alnaz. First and foremost, Prophet Muhammed (Saws pbuH) and Imam wishes us all to seek and share our knowledge, and to treat every murid and their views with respect. Imam also wishes and guides us to be inclusive. Remembering in London 2 months ago Imam asked the global Leaders present to share Imams guidance and “thoughts” with the Jamat.

Secondly; Secularly, the top CEO’s of the world today say that for success we must build trust and more ideas and thoughts need to be generated from amongst ourselves and our respective organizations, and every thought and idea from everyone internally should be considered and given an equal hearing and chance.

Third; When we have something to say and when Leaders listen and respond, even if they do not agree, we feel an enhanced sense of belonging, a sense of comfort and of care. All Leaders need to know. Some did. Now they all do.

Fourth, Murids who are commenting and reading these comments come from diverse traditions and mindset within the West and globally. There are also different national levels and ages. They too think and interpret the same information and facts differently. A sentence or word to you and me can mean something else to someone else in for example Tajikistan, India Metropolis, India villages, Hunza, China, Syria, Persia etc. Quran says and Imam has reminded us regularly that we are all made different so we may know each other (by learning from each other, by sharing and understating each other)

For example; religiously and of relevant to the lawsuit. The word ” farman” is defined in the constitution and used during 4 JK ceremonies . Our Top 2 leaders (Dr SS and AK) certainly do not understand what one of the meanings of farman and what is a Talika. I think they know, and did not mean to say what they said on the record which they may have believed (wrongly) was for only non Ismaili consumption and irrelevant (wrongly) in the lawsuit. I also think they were caught off guard and could not articulate. These questions are a part of all the leadership orientation programme and out-reach programs over the last 10 years and which are approved by Dr SS and his Dept at DJI in Aiglemont coordinating 16 institutions. Dr SS and AK have attended them and Dr SS in fact was instrumental in the content and delivery of them, as head of ITREB and IIS (They ll report to DJI)

Fifth; The question we need to ask is ; Do we, and can we “effectively” articulate with comfort key and the challenging questions regarding our faith and practices, both internally and externally, and between our brothers and sisters in all parts of the world.

Sixth; Some of the name calling and language on the Vancouverite site may be normal for them, and not insulting to them. I have listen to inter action by the youth and the language and words they use jovially and daily to communicate. Imam wishes and guides us to be more pluralistic and to act with cosmopolitan values at all times. MSMS said that change is constant and inevitable and that we must be active participants in managing change in a direction which is in our collective and the common good of all.

Remembering Prophet Mohammed (saws pbuh)did not retaliate when rubbish was thrown on him or change his course the next day. He demonstrated the power of patience and love. Remembering what Imam said on the evening of 15 October 2010 to the world about working together and changing the media mind set. Remembering this unprecedented case and debate is new and a milestone for all. Remembering leaders must encourage feedback, debate and listen to thoughts and ideas from every murid.

Seventh; I understand why & when a 74 year old or an Itmadi or Leaders does not debate and says Sabar (Patience). Also when Alama Nasirudin is excluded and waiting for 9 years for a response but continues his work. In his lecture on U Tube he says Farmans are delivered by Imam to be shared. Farmans are not meant to be locked away or edited. He says the farman during their Mulakat of 45 minutes, recorded by Dr SS has not been shared as directed by Imam.

Eight; Remembering we are in the knowledge society and we need to be enabled, and able to act and articulate our faith with comfort ( internally as a priority, and also externally ) Remembering BUI as directed by Imam needs to be as good as the secular in every way and of early learning, where enquiry and creativity should not to be stifled but the potential allowed and nurtured to be actualized to the full).

Finally; Remembering Imam wishes us to excel, and be ambassadors who act and project the Jamat and Imamat as being a pluralistic community having cosmopolitan ethics. Remembering Leaders have ready willing and able resources who they should use and not exclude for the wrong reasons. Remembering what Al Waez’s (including Abually) have advised about change, BUI, and the real needs of our Jamat.

Alnaz; I hope you can now fully understand why I respond and share. I am sorry if this response is long because viewers & Leaders are global and from diverse traditions, backgrounds and mindset.

I pray that this case is concluded on or before 7th December. Ameen I look forward to meeting you and Nagib some day soon. And Nagib thank you for the invite.

* United Kingdom

@ Bloglaw :Did you receive any response from SS?
On December 4th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Excellent post.
I was curious about the response by SS for your open and mailed challenge.
Please do share with us if you receive any.

My father 75 also warns me repeatedly that I am unduly too involved emotionally and intellectually in the lawsuit.
He thinks my spirituality is of no significance in this case. He does not believe in "divine intervention"
The leaders will get their way and MHI for the sake of maintaining the credibility of vast Institutional network will support the leaders. He is worried I will be devastated if the ruling is adverse to my belief. And my faith might be affected.
Also he thinks the leaders may hurt me in indirect ways.

But I disagree with him.
I emphasize the need to share my views and need to support the defendants in principle.
This is my moral obligation.
We always have to stand up for the weaker segments of the society no matter where they are.
Everyone is going to get on a bandwagon behind a successful person whether ethical or not.

I also have never known these 2 defendants personally but they are in my prayers every single day
I had not even seen the book till about a month ago.

But I agree to their principle and this website has provided me a lot of knowledge so I want to support them
More than all of that I think the lawsuit is about the basic tenets and doctrines of our faith
I feel hypocrites like of SS for too long have hijacked it and things have to change
The Institutions are totally deaf ear to the general jamat.

Only Chamchas can go around happily enjoying themselves behind the names of IMAMAT institutions but the real believers are silently suffering and they need someone like you and Alnaz and Nagib to bring them out of their plight, which is not happy.

One person "Shivji” on Vancouverite arrogantly wrote and used the word "sages” for individuals who are posting here quoting ginans and Farmans and Quran without any secular knowledge or something like that but he seems very oblivion of the fact that most of us are highly educated and successful in secular world as well (Alhamd-aallah)

You have never mentioned but you sure sound like an excellent lawyer and I am a Surgeon myself. So it is ok to be called a sage for also knowing our faith well because most people well educated in secular world are likely to understand the principles of faith also well because they are blessed with intelligence to understand most subjects well by their creator.

Also the ability to express our thoughts in simple language without undue jargon of words and phrases, which do not reflect any wisdom or sound knowledge, is a blessing.

* United States

Response by Dr SS
On December 5th, 2010 Concerned Momin (not verified) says:

Bloglaw's open letter was a request to Dr Sachedina to give information to all leaders. I wonder if he responded to the request.

In his response to Zeenat, Dr Sahedina should have responded to issues raised by Zeanat and also at the very least informed her if after the meeting on 15 Oct 2010, either Imam decided to change his mind about conciliation or why is the consent signed by Alnaz not enough to conclude the case and different from directions given by MHI on 15 Oct 2010, and why is he or other leaders not meeting Alnaz and Nagib to even discuss this issue ?

Maybe Dr Sachedina will do so in his response to Zeenat's reply to his letter ?

* United Arab Emirates

@Bloglaw
On December 4th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Bloglaw, I wish to add to my comment, that there is no harm in having a debate, have it in a more "civilised" manner rather than having a debate in an "uncivilised" manner. Thanks once again.

* Canada

@Bloglaw
On December 4th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Bloglaw. Thanks for your posting. With regard to name calling, etc. by other site, I wonder whether they all are teenagers? Even if they are teenagers, they are "Ismailis". Our faith tells us to "respect" people. Whether we live in western society or eastern society, we must respect all human beings and infact all creations of Allah including the environment, and not hurt anybody. Our actions, even what we speak and also our thoughts towards others, is part of our daily deeds.

Our Beloved Hazar Imam has always said that He wants His Spiritual Children to be "united". We all are His Spiritual Children, and He loves us more than we love Him. When an Ismaili verbally hurts his/her spiritual brother/sister, that Ismaili is hurting our Mowla, because Mowla loves all His Murids. Bloglaw, one day Inshallah when I will be in UK, it will be a great pleasure meeting you, and share your great knowledge. Thank you.

* Canada

Mawlana Hazar Imam loves us more than we love Him!
On December 4th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MS. YASMIN! Once again Nizar Shivji is at your Service! I have read your blog and I feel very confident that if we all think like the way you have expressed your thoughts, the “respect beget the respect.” I think we all can be triumphant to conquer the defeat of lowliness and narrow-mindedness. It is not an easy task but we can always try! Ismailism like other well known religions is preaching us to restraint ourselves under all precarious circumstances. The life is very fragile and limited in living form; therefore, the good deeds will not go unnoticed! Mawlana Hazar Imam loves us more than we love Him! With my affectionate prayers for all my Ismaili Muslims brethren, and with Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Response from SS to my open letter
On December 4th, 2010 Zeenat Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

Dear Ms Zeenat Allahrakhya,

With reference to your email, please rest assured that my work in serving Mawlana Hazar Imam is entirely in accordance with his wishes and guidance, and aims to fulfill the objectives that he establishes. In his infinite wisdom and at his pleasure, Mawlana Hazar Imam has entrusted to me certain responsibilities, which I shall continue to fulfill to the best of my ability for as long as he desires. Although you may have a different view of the actions that you ascribe to me, my conscience is clear that all my efforts are in the interest of ensuring Mawlana Hazar Imam’s absolute comfort and convenience. It is he who judges my failures and shortcomings.
In closing, I may add that the vocabulary as well as tone of your note are incompatible with the spirit of unity and shared respect among Ismaili brothers and sisters.

With Ya Ali Madad,

My response to the above (sent today):

Mr Shafik Sachedina,

Your response to my e-mail has been received and typically you have
dodged the main issue. Nobody is in doubt about your work and service
to the Imam, but it is hardly believable that the Imam has given you
Himself the right to act inappropriately in His presence. However hard
and dedicatedly you work for the Imam, you must always remember that
that this is a privilege granted upon you and in the presence of the
Imam, you must act with "adab", especially mindful that murids who
love Him will get hurt with such "beadabi" in the presence of the Lord
of the worlds (which given your demeanor, you do not believe Him to
be). I will once again insist that you cannot continue this kind of
behavior around our beloved Imam and if you do not want to agree to
this then you should resign. That would be the honorable thing to do
given that you have hurt so many of us. I will certainly not apologize
for my tone and vocabulary because I am extremely annoyed and upset
with you, which I have every right to be.

I hope you have understood what I am trying to say and will shed some
of your arrogance in order to realize that it is actually you who has
created this strife between brothers and sisters, and only your humble
acceptance will mend it.

Zeenat Allahrakhya
Murid

Dr SS should accept & resign ...
On December 4th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Zeenat, you are right. Dr SS should accept and apologise where he is so obviously wrong and arrogant, and offer his resignation, and conclude this case before the court hearing on Monday as directed by Hazar Imam on 15 Oct 2010.

* United Arab Emirates

SS' silence speaks volumes!!!
On December 5th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

First you may be the first to receive a reply from a top leader. Congrats.

Importantly, SS did NOT deny any aspects of our reporting on the Oct 15 mulakat. If we had either misreported or exaggerated the facts in our reports he would have said so.

* Canada

Reply to Alnaz
On December 5th, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

Brother Alnaz, I was happy to receive a response from SS and the wordings of his response, neatly dodging my main issues of complaint, convinced me even further and strengthened my resolve to protest against such blatant disregard for Hazar Imam and His wishes. Yes, he certainly did not deny anything about the reports of October 15 but is still not regretting his actions before and thereafter. It is imperative that we all stand up for our Mowla and voice openly our concerns.
Thank you very much for your response.
Best wishes and God bless.

@ Bloglaw
On December 3rd, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

You are absolutely right. The onus of the proof, in all civil cases, is on the plaintiff. It is his responsibility to satisfy the court about his case contents. This is true even in developing countries like India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh etc.
The benefits of doubt, if any, in all such cases is given to defendant.

Things happen for good and it is the Will of HI
On December 3rd, 2010 Sadrudin (not verified) says:

YAM.

Yes, proof requirements lies with Plaintiff. I reviewed briefs and I do agree many things mentioned are hearsay and therefore those will stricken by the Court.

Also, I noticed that our Ismaili constitution is not discussing how to disperse firmans to Jamat. This itself says, HI deliberately protected Jamat from Tariqha board's dictatorship, otherwise many Jamati members would be subject to disciplinary actions. When HI is speaking about pluralistic Jamat, our Tariqha board is busy galvanizing the Jamat as a one type of Jamat and that you can noticed how Satada and Chandrat ceremonies are conducted along with announcements. This law suit is one of their example. I am still wondering, why Tariqha board has not taken action against on defendants similar to Meharali? The answer is simple, HI will not cooperate in this matter and therefore, they bang the wrong door.

Before, HI visited to Huston Jamat, he did not authorize Jamats to travel there but many did go and so HE immediately sarcastically mentioned about there presence in his firman. This incident itself is saying Imam is blunt and he will not shy about it if someone does not do correct. This was not the case when Imam came for discovery meeting. I do remember in 80's Imam was mad at the leadership (leadership went to see Imam in France) and during that mulakat Imam broke the table glass with his feast and send the leadership back to home. To Him at that time, the leadership was doing monkey business.

I am still wondering where can I find the copy of the new Nikha, Nimaz and Funeral services? Is Tarikha board going to sleep on it. Isn't those books belong to Jamat? Are we facing the similar time period that happen Europe passed through and invented the New World.

* United States

A Parallel ? - 8 years and still waiting ?
On December 2nd, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

On Vancouverite Ali says “ .. I see a parallel with Allama Nasirudin who rebelled against the leadership and formed his own cult group. Nagib, Alnaz and Bloglaw are headed for that route. No regrets.” News Editor says “ Some may dispute that Allama Nasirudin formed his own cult. Some may say he is part of a cultural variation that occurs among Ismailis from different ethnic groups and languages. This issue remains a matter of debate I think.”

Reply by Bloglaw :

Well said Editor I agree with you Editor that there may be other reasons including cultural traditions and variations. I am also totally with you that we should and reverse the culture of timidity and fear of the past with constructive and reasoned debate.

Is Allama Nasiruddin the same one I found on a google search, who has a 7 series of 10 minute lectures he delivered in June 2010 & has uploaded them on U-tube ?.

He says he has written 100-150 books on Ismailism, Soul, Batin, and Imamat etc. He also met Hazar Imam and Dr Shafik Sachedina with Fakir Hunzai of IIS for 45 minutes some 8-9 years ago. He describes the mulat and the Farman by Hazar Imam most eloquently and with immense love and reverence.

He has he says written Qasidas(Ginans) which have been accepted as by Hazar Imam as Ginans. These are recited in many JK’s. He adds he gave some of his books to Dr Shafik Sachedina as directed by Hazar Imam in order for IIS s to collaborate, publish and work together.

This was 8-9 years ago and he is still waiting to hear from from IIS or Dr S Sachedina to progress this collaborationas directed by Hazar Imam. He also says in these lectures that Fakir Hunzai of IIS can verify the meeting and directions given by Hazar Imam.

* United Kingdom

@ Bloglaw re: above post of Dec. 2nd
On December 4th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ya Aly madad, brother Bloglaw. Thank you so much for this informative post: I never knew this gentleman had had a Mulaqat with Hazer Imam, I thought he had just met S.S.
Keep up your good work, brother Bloglaw, many of us really appreciate your effort and are grateful that you take the trouble to respond so patiently, logically, and courteously to the other party, even when they are nasty and write in a truly disgusting way...(I had read two of their lines once, in one of your posts, and ever since then I just scroll down to your response, skipping their comments...:-)
It is a pity you are so far away and I cannot go to England, for it would have been wonderful to meet you!
Mowla tamaaro bahuj bhalo karè. Ameen. Take care.

* Canada

Would Imam single out Alnaz and Nagib ?
On December 2nd, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

Has any action been taken against this Murid by Dr Sachedina or NCAB or ICAB after the Mulakat ?

Are any of his Ginans or books or sections in them against the Imam or ismailism ? Some of his books are co authored by leading Ismaili scholars and a world leading authority on Quran who works with IIS ? Do the books not contain Imams guidance and farmans ?
He says openly on the internet that he has continued his work as directed by Imam and continues to publish books etc.

Why then no action or lawsuit against that Murid but a lawsuit against Alnaz and Nagib?

why does IIS not review the books given by him and meet him and work together with him. This is a part of their mandate and especially since Imam has given directions to work together with this Murid. Maybe IIS are not aware or waiting for the books and instructions from Dr Sachedina?

* United Arab Emirates

When and who retained Mr Gray ?
On December 2nd, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Follower on Vancouverite says “ Bloglaw/Spinner, you say on your beloved Nagib’s website the following: “Regarding the affirmation on 12 May. It was after the lawsuit was filed on 6 April 2010. The Judge directed discovery despite the affirmation. ……. Knowing the defence and issue I am surprised Mr Gray did not do a better and more conclusive job when drafting of that Affirmation. …….” Bloglaw, so the following sworn statements of the Imam (affirmation) are not clear enough for you? Or are you just that dumb? Bloglaw, the judges are not as dumb as you and the 2 clowns. If Imam did not file the Statement of Claim on Apr 6, when did he actually retain the firm of Ogilvy Renault ? Sheer stupidity !

BLOGLAW REPLIES

- Regarding your question of when the law firm was retained, and who instructed them to file the lawsuit ?. Look at the time line of what happened after the letter of 18 Feb to 6 April 2010. The defendants say it was not Imam but it was Dr SS and or MM who retained and instructed the law firm to file the lawsuit
Regarding Affirmation - Can you think of a very good and compelling reason why the top law firm in drafting the affirmation did not simply say the following conclusively, and why not file it with an appropriate affidavit in court.

1 I personally retained the law firm of Ogivy Renault on x date (or on ……… I authorized Dr SS and MM to retain them)
2 On xx date I personally authorised Ogivy Renault to prepare and file a lawsuit against the named defendants in case no ……( or on xx I authorized Dr SS and MM to authorized the firm of Ogivy Renault to file the lawsuit)
3 I personally reviewed and approved the contents of the claim on xxx date and authorized Ogilvy Renault to file the claim in case no.
4 I reaffirm that I am therefore the Plaintiff in case no …
5 Etc……..

Regarding timeline - Not forgetting Dr Sachedina said it was end of march when Imam decided on taking legal action. If So the law firm was retained, consulted, advised, prepared claim, personal review by Imam and a lawsuit filed on 6 April. All this within one week ? Unbelievable ?with no pre action letters ? or any contact with Alnaz ?. Dr SS said Imam wished this to be resolved internally and yet Dr SS or MM made no contact with Alnaz whatsoever before 6 April 2010. And no efforts to meet and conciliate after 15 October 2010 ?

* United Kingdom

@Bloglaw, A Request !!
On December 2nd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Bloglaw, your posts are pretty good. However, I urge you to stop giving fuel to the group of eight, you will never satisfy them. The more you respond, they get their fuel and the fire keeps burning.

Did you notice, I just went to see lawsuit21010 website and although it is last updated on October 15, 2010, they have NOT posted the Appeal decision denying Gray's Appeal, nor posted the cross examination of Lindblom (he was crucified on cross examination, I bet he regrets getting involved in this case), and other important documents, revised facta, etc.

You and a few others continue debating with them. If no one writes back, what will they do, where will their fuel come from. They may read your comments here and try to respond to you, but Salim is delighted in getting attention (finally his web site became famous and attracts hits) to them loving to write back with same old garbage - garbage in garbage out, but don't feed them anything. Let them talk between themselves.

I also urge all not to even bother reading their comments (I rarely go there, last I went there was maybe over two months ago) or to even respond to anything they say. Why give them satisfaction? Salim had told me when I spoke with him, that he does not go to JKs, has not done so for a long time, does not know anything about the institutions, etc. That comment itself was revealing. What to do with such people. I think (someone told me) that he had criticized (or someone else on his site did) MHI for allowing the books distributed to be kept.

Am I surprised that he loves writing what I term as subjective posts, he is unable to be objective, just as the group of eight. Likes attract.

The Eight's Guru, Abu Ali Missionary (and incidentally my Guru too) once said to me when I was complaining about something, he responded: When walking on your path, you come across a dog barking, what will you do? Go on your fours to bark back?

I said, NO, I will walk away to the other side and get away. Well then remember that you will often come across a brother, sister, employer, neighbour, etc., in the guise of a dog barking away, you have a choice, bark back or walk away. Ever since I remember that, and simply walk away from those who in that moment are like dogs - with fantastic fringe benefits - no blood pressure, no stress, no worries and I can sleep well.

So why not expend your energies, instead of arguing with them, enlighten the concerned people with your assessments in lay terms for all to understand the case better.

You cannot "show" the blind the beauty of a sunset, nor how "bright" the rainbow is. Let them be.

* Canada

@Alnaz re: above post of Dec. 2nd (Request to Bloglaw)
On December 4th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ya Aly madad, brother Alnaz.
Abu Aly Missionary's advice to you is indeed excellent advice. Still, I feel that brother Bloglaw's posts in response to the posts on the other site are really needed, for those who read that site's unpleasant comments (which also totally lack accuracy and twist everything) often visit this site and they can then get the true version of the facts from Bloglaw. If he stops his posts here, then where will they get to read about the real facts?
And Shukhar Mowla, he responds to them very calmly, rationally, and courteously too. I am not sure his responses are adding fuel to the other side, but he is, no doubt, straightening the records, not only for now, but for the future's archives too, if you understand what I mean.
Please forgive me if I have offended you any way, brother Alnaz.
Take care, and do hang in there. Many are praying that Mowla Bapa's wish be realized.

* Canada

Proof is in eating the pudding !!!
On December 2nd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

@Bloglaw (not to forget !!)

Forget the Affirmation. Forget the lawsuit, who filed, etc. Forget who retained Gray.

Remember, and not forget, that at the discovery, Nagib LEFT it open to the Imam to say whatever the He pleases. He chose not to insult the Imam by asking Him questions. All I can say is, shabash to Nagib.

BUT what did the Imam do. He would have needed one whole minute to say the following (please confirm the time it takes, read it and ask some to count the time it takes to say it):

Mr. T and Mr. J:

I have been seeking since the mid 90s to have you stop publishing My farmans. I wrote you a letter, and another one, and my brother also sent you a letter, in addition to sending messages from my officers. I brought this lawsuit as you refused to accept my farmans, and your response has been to allege forgery without any foundation, and you have been questioning everything my officers do on my behalf. I have confidence in my leaders, an they do exactly what I ask of them.

Well here I am now in person. I want you to stop publication and distributing my farmans. In fact, I don't want anyone else to distribute my farmans by emails, post them on internet, and only accept farmans that ITREB delivers the Jamat.

Will you confirm to abide by my Farman on these issues as I have been seeking.

Gray that is all, that is all I have to say, I will take leave. File my transcript in the court and obtain a judgment based on their defence that if they are satisfied I want them to stop, they will stop. I trust that they will now sign a consent judgment and abide by my wishes.

(Ok, ok, I know: you can say it in under a minute if you speak faster.)

Wow, instead the Imam says, "may I make a suggestion", and spends about 30 minutes, although Nagib was asking for 5 minutes, the court trippled it to 15 minus, and he doubles it to 30 minutes, and NEVER once said anything remote to the above spill.

Review one point only:

Assuming we are crooks, so much that the Imam has to bring an action to stop us. In fact a plaintiff and defendant are almost always fighting each other. In this action, the Plaintiff claims we have STOLEN his "works".

Now after alleging that we have stolen his "works" what does he do: tells me, "the annotated farmans can be produced, IF YOU WANT". To a thief he is offering more goodies - even more profound because the annotated version includes HIS THOUGHT PROCESSES. I am still reeling when I remember his look, his eyes focused into mine when he said, "If you want".

This fact alone answers the question, who is the real plaintiff. Would a real plaintiff GIVE more goodies to the one whom he alleges stole them in the first place?

Of course not everyone will agree, specially the group of eight, but frankly who cares if they continue till Qayamat to continue to attack us. It requires inner eyes to "see" the truth. Over a billion read the Quran, some know every word and sentence by heart, yet cannot "see"? is is the fault of the Quran they cannot "see"?

* Canada

If imam was the plaintiff
On December 2nd, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

If imam was the plaintiff and he wanted to win the case he would have done that and the meeting would have ended in less than a few minutes, as you have stated. No reason for any plaintiff not to do so especially one represented by the best lawyers money can buy,

Imam did not want those questions put to him by Mr Gray and Mr Gray did not or could not do so even if he wanted to do so.

Shukhar Alhamdullilah and i hope our leadership will reflect on what you have said and do as Imam directed in that meeting.

Most lawsuits are settled out of court and many at the last minute. I hope history will show this was settled by agreement and conciliation.

* United Arab Emirates

@Alnaz
On December 2nd, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Alnaz. Thanks for your posting. As I have always said Our Beloved Hazar Imam loves all His Murids. He is "definitely" taking care of you and Nagib. If people on other sites "attack" you both verbally, call you names, just accept it, because Mowla is watching and your "gunah'" are washed away. Never give up. My prayers are always with you both. Thank you.

* Canada

@ Yasmin @ Alnaz
On December 3rd, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Ameen - Yasmin. is right Alnaz You should accept and dont get upset. Bloglaw is responding to all their comments with respect with reason and with facts. This will make them reflect and discuss amongst themselves, their friends and with leaders. They will know the truth.

The editor of vancouverite has said he talks to some of the top leaders. So they too will know and understand the truth. The silent majority are also reading the comments and so are the Noorani family and Hazar Imam. they also know.

Alnaz, Mawla is with you and guiding you. bloglaw is doing a unique and special seva.. Alnaz, who do you think asked Bloglaw, or sent him to help, and who inspires him to do so ? Your request to Bloglow suggests you do not know and have never met bloglaw? bloglaw also says he has never met Nagib either? yes?

* United Arab Emirates

@Bloglaw
On December 4th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

I have not met Bloglaw or any one else who write comments here.

I am deeply grateful for all prayers, encouragement and support by so many, I really appreciate it.

With respect to writing in their website. The way I see it, is that those who can argue against the Imam's stated position, or those who can and do criticize the Imam, or those whose arguments are for the sake of argument whether or not they make sense, then we should ask the question, are we the reason that gives them fuel.

Most counselors tell their patients, as I tell my clients, don't argue with the foolish.

MSMS in one of his farman said, that Isa Nabi even crossed the road to avoid the likes of the group of eight.......such people get their 'rush' and 'high' by the reaction from others, best way to deal with them is to shun them so they don't get satisfaction from the other's reaction.

* Canada

@Alnaz
On December 4th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Alnaz. As I have said before let those on other site say whatever they wish to, which is very sad. I think that you and Nagib have that "inner peace", that Our Beloved Mowla Blessed you both, not just for 5 minutes you had asked for but for 30 minutes, because He loves you both as His Spiritual Children. This Blessing is more precious than anything in the world. Thank you.

* Canada

I have never met Bloglaw.
On December 3rd, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

I have never met Bloglaw. His postings are interesting and well articulated.

But I am in Nairobi and whenever Bloglaw or any of you guys travel to this part of the world, we can meet. I go to Parklands JK so you will find me there everyday except when I come for legal matters in Canada [so far 4 times in the last few months] You are welcome home for Chai, Bhiriani and Samosa ;-)

Nagib

@Nagib re: above post of Dec. 3rd
On December 6th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Many thanks for the invitation to the rest of us! That is generous of you! By the way, I am vegetarian! :-)
Ya Aly madad!

* Canada

@Not to forget
On December 2nd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

You gave me goosebumps to read your post. Now I am ever more than certain of the out come in favor of the defendants.
I think Nagib and Alnaz Should go home and sleep and not worry at all. Ignore the posts on the Vancouverite. There is no meaning to them.

Our Mawla is with you You need no one else. You know the bliss of his presence. He came all the way to Canada to meet with you guys everything else was a make believe.

I have had a similar encounter ( Quite tiny compared to yours) in my life and it has given meaning to my existence. I cannot exit from that bliss even for a second.I find Him with me all the time running to fulfill even my smallest wish. Shukhar!
If you were at Daresalam GJ darbar , his hand gesture of "move all worries to the side and enjoy the evening" With His right hand he was pushing everything away! Truly remarkable gesture! I can never forget it and its implications subsequently in my life.

* United States

Consequences of Judgment on 7th December
On December 2nd, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

@ Alibhai Jiwani - The reason I feel we should all wish for conciliation is because Imam directed them to settle. However you are right that Imam may wish a different outcome. I hope the Jamat and leaders who are reading these feedback and suggestions are passing them on with their thoughts.

If the case is dismissed on 7th Dec, then
1 History will show Imam has never sued His murids,
2 The sanctity of mehmani will be preserved.
3 Farmans will be accessible to the Jamat in all JK’s and in remote locations
4 Farmans as delivered and annotated by Imam, will be available to the Jamat.
5 There will be resignations and change. The root causes will be reversed more quickly.
6 External potential impact and challenges will be lower to manage.
7 Dr SS statements made under oath can be disregarded about Farmans and the reason Farmans are edited by DR SS and the Leaders, is because Imam thinks in French, and so DR SS suggesting Imam does not say in English what Imam means ?

What if Judgment is given against the defendants ?
1 Imam is the plaintiff and there was infringement. (copyright has not been challenged)
2 History will show Imam sued his followers over the distribution his Farmans to his murids, which he made for his Murids.
3 The sanctity of memani and its meaning will become a question .
4 Jamat will continue not have access to Imam's Farmans in JK’s even in remote locations (for some time if ever).
5 DR SS says under oath that only edited farmans and when publised by ITREB are Farmans (not as and when delivered by the Imam). So edited farmans will be available. During Darbar when Imam delivers a Farman we cannot share with our Jamats because Imam thinks in French according to Dr SS. (As in case of the London and Singapore GJ Farmans, which have been edited by the Leaders)
6 Any major changes will take much longer, and so will the widening gap between the ground realties and Imams Farmans
7 External impact in future can potentially be much higher.
8 If Judgment is given against the defendants then there must be other compelling reasons which we will understand in time.

There is therefore every reason in my limited understanding and judgment to conciliate and end this case as directed by Imam. I hope and pray there will be a consent agreement and an order on or before 7th December. Ameen.

* United Kingdom

@Bloglaw One more outcome possible !!
On December 2nd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

One outcome is not indicated above.

Neither Gray nor we win the motions, and the Judge says Summary Judgment cannot be given, go to trial, or a Summary Trial.

Then they will have to produce all documents (is this what the Imam meant when he said, they (annotated farmans) can be produced??) in Affidavit of Documents which Gray will have to produce, then off to trial, where, if it goes to trial, MHI would be a witness and testify in open court..

I doubt the case will go to trial (he'll ask, what happened, we had agreed to settle the matter??), but is possibility.

* Canada

@ Alnaz: One more outcome!
On December 3rd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

As far as I understood from the versions of discovery meeting with MHI, that MHI did not use the word" Settlement."
I thought he "suggested" go for "Consent judgement" Are the 2 words synonymous in legal language? My understanding was first one outside the court mutually settled and the second in the court by the judge. But I am not a lawyer.

Indeed if the case goes to trial we are in for a major breakthrough! Something close to Zahurat.MHI may decide to come to the courts. The entire era may change! From what I have read about this highly incredible moment is that in 3 days the thinking of the entire population can be changed to believers! It is that powerful an event.

But I think since MHI used the word "end the case" somewhere in the conversation on Oct 15th so I think it will end soon.

Also I doubt if already there are 313 hakikati momins united ,sharp in intellect like snake and compassionate and soft at heart like pigeons. ( Pre requisite for Zahurat)( ref : Kalame Imame Mubin , Ismailia Association for India publication ,ISMS Farman)

So far there are only 2, Nagib and Alnaz that I know. So we may have to wait a long time before that happens!

* United States

We are very far from that
On December 6th, 2010 nagib (not verified) says:

We are very far from that position. We would be satisfy if we could reach the position of the dust under the feet of our Imam.... Even that level will come in the future, Inshallah, after many many challenges, trials [LOL] and tribulations, and many tests to pass.

* Canada

@bloglaw: Regarding judgement on 7th dec
On December 2nd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Chances of conciliation at this point are close to zero according to me. You have very well delineated all the right reasons why if the case is dismissed in the favor of defendants that it is a better outcome for jamat and Imamat

Hazar Imam said to the defendants on 15th oct 2010, that he hopes to meet them again and work with them , considering this remark it seems more strong that judgement will not be against the defendants. MHI 's words are never incorrect.

Also He being Almighty in the zahiri and batuni both the worlds he will never defeat a weak party.( Even if for a second assume He is the true plaintiff) There is no chivalry in defeating unarmed soldiers.( Alnaz and Nagib are without lawyers)! Plaintiff on the other end has an army of lawyers.And again what is the crime? Spreading his farmans to his Murids?? What a heinous crime??

It is against the principle of "Ali" within him. (Review history of Hazarat Ali and Lord Krishna)

From all points it is only rationale and just that the case gets dismissed. I am pretty sure it will be. (Inshaallah). That is why Mawla is cool!

* United States

I thought this litigation will resolve with slap on the wrist!
On December 2nd, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. BLOWLAW! When I looked thoughtlessly from all points of view on this litigation, I felt, it would be a matter of less consequence, and would be resolved with a slap on the wrist! But it developed into a prominent court case on infringement. This infraction, once again, I tried to view it with mysticism in my mind because this court case is first of its kind which is disputed between the Imam of the time and His Murid. I felt sure; it would be resolved in a matter of time. But it has hung around us for many months and we do not have the resolution as we had expected!

It has become a tribulation for all those who are closely monitoring this court case. Mawlana Hazar Imam, the Ismaili Muslims Institution, the Ismaili Muslims Community, Mr. Nagib Tajdin, and Mr. Alnaz Jiwa. They all have produced challenging evidence via documentation. The answers are not that easily obtainable because it is not simple to blurt out anything just to satisfy the curiosity. There will be consequence if something is spoken out of place.

Realistically The Canadian Law has provided the opening to both – the plaintiff and the defendants. This opening began with a lawsuit filed on April 06, 2010 by Mawlana Hazar Imam against Mr. Nagib Tajdin and Mr. Alnaz Jiwa on infringement of copyright by publishing and distributing the Farman Book. Then the Discovery was held on October 15, 2010. The Discovery became irrelevant because of many irregularities. Now we are steadily waiting for Summary Judgment which will be held on December 07, 2010. There are lots of accusations against the Ismaili Muslims Institution, and the defendants, and so on …. The court case has advanced to its pinnacle which will provide the judgment in time to come. Whichever way the decision goes, Mawlana Hazar Imam is philanthropic, omnipresent, and omnipotent. The Defendants are steadfast with their belief on Noor of the Imam. They feel their submission to the court a defence is not against the Imam, but against the usurper.

The doctrine of Ismaili Muslims faith will remain intact. Nobody can undermine the system of belief of Ismaili Faith. Where do I stand? I stand in the Holy Huzur Poor Noor of Hazarat Dhani Salamat Datar Noor Mawlana Shah Karim Al-Husseini Hazar Imam to beg for His Grace and Infinite Mercy. This is also my prayers for my Ismaili Muslims brothers and sisters. Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

@ ;an ordinary Murid
On December 2nd, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

The nine questions posed by an ordinary Murid to his uncle should also be posed to Vancouverite. However, I would like to add two more questions as follows:
10. Would Sachedina resign from his post?
11. Would MM expiate the great sin he committed by assisting SS in his heinous crafty criminal plot to totally ruin Nagib and Al Naz?

Imam Will Win.
On December 1st, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

I was wondering why the Imam never interfered, and never gave any evidence Himself, even at discovery.

I was wondering how the court would weigh that on one side, the defendants gave direct evidence of the consent, and on the other hand, the Plaintiff gave second-hand evidence only.

I was wondering if defendants can really prove to the court that the Aga Khan does not support the Plaintiff's case.

I was also wondering that if the court sides with the defendants, then how would that not be a loss in the eyes of the public for the Imam?

All four of those questions got answered by this case law extract quoted with the defendants' revised factum:

"..Such failure amounts to an implied admission that the evidence of the absent witness would be contrary to the party's case, or at least would not support it.”

So the court is obliged to believe that the absence of a direct affidavit from the Imam means that His evidence supports the defendants!

Either way, Imam wins! Brilliant!

Imam Will Win.
On December 1st, 2010 salim (not verified) says:

of course, we all knew it long time ago that HH will win this case...( no if's or but's or maybe's)

* Canada

@ Salim : reg :Imam will win
On December 3rd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Whichever party has MHI in principle and spirit with them that party will win not with just the name.

* United States

The other side
On December 1st, 2010 An ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

My uncle, 74, and old person and of Vancouverite type, told me few days back that, “The defendants have almost no chance to win the case, and hence my elderly advice to them is to settle the case as per HI’s directions for they are certainly to lose this case and its consequences are very dangerous to them.” Dangerous consequences he mentioned are in his own words are as follows:
1. “Soon they will not find any supporters from the Jamat. Particularly, when court verdicts that indeed there was infringement of Farmans by the defendants.’
2. “They will be required to pay heavy penalties.”
3. “After the court verdict hardly any Ismaili will visit Heritage web site and hence the desire of vizier sahib would be automatically met.”
4. “These two will be considered by all the Jamati members around the globe as renegades and enemy of Jamat.”
5. “There will be overwhelming demands from Jamat to take disciplinary action against these two.”
6. “Vizier sahib is likely to file a defamation case against them.”
After saying this he posed me a question, “Do you agree with me or not?”

Instead of replying to him directly, I posed a counter question, “What if the plaintiff case of infringement or otherwise is dismissed by the court in favor of defendants, would you, then, believe in their version of 15th October discovery? Namely:”
1. “That Al Naz was wrongly implicated in the case.”
2. “That HI has accepted Mehamani of chocolate box from him in principle but was not taken away by HI physically.”
3. “All Farmans of previous Imams are HI’s Farmans.”
4. “Hazar Imam does not think in French and makes Farmans in English.”
5. “There is no need of editing of HI’s Farmans.”
6. “HI was not at all unhappy with them in the meeting but was very empathetic and pleased with them.”
7. “That settlement conditions proposed by HI were different from which Grey and Sachedina had drafted and to which they were forcing defendants to agree and sign.”
8. “When there are any changes in the Farmans Dais are getting hurt.”
9. “Lastly, that this case was not filed by HI at all but by these leaders.”
As soon as I completed my counter question, he became furious and told me that I am a renegade and should be excommunicated from Jamat, and since then he does not talk to me.

Revised Factums for Summary Judgment Motions
On November 30th, 2010 heritage says:

Revised Factums have been posted Here:

2010-11-29 Summary Judgment : Plaintiffs Revised Combined Factums of Reply and of Motion

2010-11-29 Summary Judgment: Defendants' Revised Factums of Motion and of Reply

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

Farmans not to be followed? - says Sachedina.
On November 30th, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

Sachedina says under oath that Farmans spoken by Imam in a Didar are not to be followed until and unless the edited text version comes from ITREB. Those that are not published are no longer Farmans:

Extracts from my Summary Judgment motion:

44.
The claim therein that Farmans must be edited aligned with Sachedina's declarations over the years that Imam's Farmans must be edited, that the Imam "Thinks in French and Speaks in English", and with his general disrespect for the status of the Farmans and of the Imam in Ismaili Faith. If witness Sachedina is to be believed, the dozens of Farmans that never got released over the years, although they are full of guidance and blessings that were made to large gatherings of Ismailis who cherish those words and aim to follow them, although they are Divine, they are no longer "Farmans". This is quite contradictory and disrespectful to the tenet of Ismaili Faith that the Hereditary Imam is the bearer of the Light of God

45.
Contrary to the statement of claim, there is no established criteria for editing or
guidelines for publication or dissemination of Farmans. Mr Sachedina admits that the
Farman dissemination policy document dated March 2010 presented as Exhibit B in Mr
Sachedina's affidavit is a last-minute document that comes from Mr Manji, the President
of the Ismaili Council for Canada, and that it is not sent by the Imam. It is clear that
document and others have been created after the publication of the Golden Edition to
back the Statement of Claim.

46.
The Claim that the integrity of the Aga Khan's works is compromised is also wrong.
There is no evidence of mutilation or distortion. Quite the contrary, Ismaili Faith dictates
that the Imam's Farmans become effective and binding to Ismailis as soon as they are
spoken and as they are spoken. Tajdin also believes that Farmans cannot be edited and
has published them in their integral form.

47.
The premise in the claim that the Farmans must be edited before they are published is
not an Ismaili concept. There is no evidence that the Imam Edits Farmans because they
are, in Ismaili belief, from a Divine source. A judgment admitting without admissible
evidence that Imam edits the Farmans would reform the basis of the Ismaili religion in a
legal framework and it is not the mandate of judges to make changes to various religions
or to let anyone use the legal setup to do this.

References:

Cross-Examination of Sachedina p.59:#253, p.129: #544-#545, pp.147-150:#617 - #628, p.74: #306-#309

Affidavit of Nagib Tajdin sworn May 7, 2010, Moving Party’s Record, Tab 2, Paragraph 25-26

Affidavit of Nagib Tajdin sworn July 14, Tajdin's Responding Record, Tab 6, Paragraph 27-29, 18-22, 83-85

Affidavit of Mohamed Tajdin sworn July 7, Responding record Tab 8, Paragraph 17

Statement of Claim, Paragraph 23 & 20 & 34 &35

Statement of Defence of Tajdin, Paragraph 23.

Case is going to be dismissed in favor of the defendants
On December 1st, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

After reading the all the above sbmissions it seems almost certain that the case will be dismissed in favor of the defendants.
Hazar Imam has V.cleverly not given a sentence in favor of plaintiff despite showing up for the discovery. How amazing and wonderful! He appeared just for the defendants to boost their strength and show them the right path! He knows His leela very well. I hope SS is a history in no time. No one has to do anything.

* United States

LOOKING AT ALL ANGLE REALISTICALLY !
On November 30th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

News Editor vancouverite says to Bloglaw : You forget the Boston affidavit witnessed by two prominent people including a notary and a lawyer. Tragic how you purport to pose legal answers that fall short of facts. In that affidavit he asserts the facts which are unchallenged by any evidence. It is simply not enough to make a claim, you have to produce evidence. Get on with it Bloglaw – you are an alley lawyer. You’d do well in some Bombay bazaar selling legal advice

Bloglaw Replies

Editor : As usual you are not looking at all sides of the angle realistically or objectively. The Judge has to decide if Imam personally authorised and filed the lawsuit on 6 April 2010 based on the evidence of facts submitted by all parties. Did Imam do so and has Imam and or Mr Gray submitted affidavits in court saying so after 6 April 2010 ?. May be rules of evidence in Canada are different and if so I may be wrong. Of course the Judge will need to decide on the experts evidence of the signatures and defence-submissions by the defendants.

And on this issue, even if Imam authorised the lawsuit after 6th April (I am not saying this was or not the case), the judge has to dismiss the lawsuit if the Judge finds Imam did not authorise it ON OR BEFORE 6th April 2010.(based on evidence filed on this specific issue)

Regarding the affirmation on 12 May. It was after the lawsuit was filed on 6 April 2010. The Judge directed discovery despite the affirmation. If the Judge finds that the affirmation was signed by Imam and also rules it can be or is admitted for this hearing as evidence. The judge has to then also consider and rule on the first 3 sentences. They do not say specifically that “before” the lawsuit was filed Imam reviewed the claim, approved it for filing, and instructed the Lawyers to file it. Knowing the defence and issue I am surprised Mr Gray did not do a better and more conclusive job when drafting of that Affirmation. Some may say Mr Gray is not that brilliant. Some (Mr Gray/MM/Dr SS), may say this was a legal strategy, Some may say there was a higher hand & purpose, and some may say it was an oversight in the necessary care and attention to details.

I am being realistic, not confrontational or negative. This is something to think about. I am sure Dr SS MM and Mr Gray and their team are aware of this and will have included it in their latest submissions.

* United Kingdom

@Bloglaw re: above post of Nov. 30th
On December 1st, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Mowla tamnè sukhi raakhè, Bloglaw! Ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

The ruling most likely on Dec 7th 2010
On November 30th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

The case will be dismissed in favor of the defendants.
Mr. Gray has not convincingly proved that Imam indeed is the plaintiff except that he brought MHI for discovery.
But MHI did not give one sentence that said he is the real plaintiff
Neither did he say there was no forgery.
Discovery for whatever reason will have little meaning to Mr Gray and the court since nothing of importance was on record . Thanks to Mr. Gray.
MHI appeared because Dr.Sachedina has served Mawla for so many years so MHI decided to oblige.And maintain the honor of everyone involved.
But he ignored all the help given by Mawla.
The Consent judgement would have been in big favor of Dr Sachedina than the defendants if it was done as per MHI 's guidance.But it was not done. Thanks to malice in the hearts of the leaders.

Defendants are true momins.
MHI came to empower their morale so that they do not concede
Nagib and Alnaz both truly experienced his affection rather than His wrath.
Which gave them the truth even without asking a single Q.
MHI provided all that was needed for them.
Most importantly that he loves them.

There is not enough substance in the case to go to trial, since plaintiff 's lawyer has not convincingly proved that MHI is the real plaintiff.
The history will never say Hazar Imam sued His momins.
Any kind of settlement internally out of court will not be able to wipe out this "vital element" except the court ruling that
MHI is not the real plaintiff and the case dismissed!
So no one should wish for concilliation and internal settlement(except SS and MM)
MHI would have done this when he appeared for discovery if that was a desirable outcome.

* United States

Did Dr SS & MM give Imam the right information?
On November 30th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Soulmate - B L O G L A W: Your friends have failed to convince us that the Imam is not the Plaintiff. If your friends also fail to convince the court that HH is not the Plaintiff, will you then be willing to concede that He is the Plaintiff? Editor Vancouverite - You may see a ruling on that.

Reply Bloglaw

Maybe you or Editor can get and upload the latest submissions of both sides. One of the concerns I have is;
If Imam filed the lawsuit and has stated that Farmans are available to the Jamat in JK’s including remote locations. Before and after 6 April this is not the case. Not even today. I have checked. So was Imam given the correct information and if so would Imam have made such a statement in court ? Or filed the lawsuit ? If not why did Leaders not give the correct information to Imam, and in any event not make sure all Farmans are available and accessible in JK’s (Itreb’s)) by the Jamat ?

If the court gives judgment against or for the defendants, they will I am sure abide by a ruling of the court. Everyone will. Legalities or the ruling aside, I hope Leaders will ensure access to Farmans by the Jamat and the new book of Farmans will be available very soon.

* United Kingdom

We should all unconditionally abide by the wishes of MHI
On November 29th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. BLOGLAW! You and I have been obligated to present our comments on this litigation and the proceedings on this pertaining court case. We both have become hard hearted. May be I am wrong. We have to clear our minds and look with new perspective! I believe in amicable resolution and harmony in Ismaili Muslims Community! No matter what, as long as, Mr. Nagib Tajdin and Mr. Alnaz Jiwa are in the Ismaili Muslims Community, they are my brethren. Mr. Bloglaw, I am looking forward with you for a cuppa of Darjeeling tea in London, England! My favourite haunts are the Café in Harrods and Ritz. I enjoy scones (a small rich biscuit like pastry or quick bread) with fresh cream and warm liquid strawberry marmalade).

Both of us have successfully presented our arguments on discovery, summary judgement, and the trial if the court case continues to get the judgement. You have argued on the status of Hazar Imam and forgery. The argument goes on with no agreement about Hazar Imam’s status as being plaintiff! Therefore, the discovery has become meaningless because all parties are required not to argue about the appearance of Hazar Imam. The opponents are not able to establish that Hazar Imam is the plaintiff, or petitioner, or the claimant. The proponent has from the very beginning advocated that Mawlana Hazar is the plaintiff! The proponent argues strongly that Mr. Nagib Tajdin and Mr. Alnaz Jiwa had an excellent opportunity during the discovery but failed to ask five questions. Had he asked these questions, it appears Mawlana Hazar Imam would have definitely obliged Mr. Nagib Tajdin with answers. In this kind of legal proceeding, the judge will not prompt or make a fuss to get the answer from the plaintiff. The onus is on defendants! The reason is very simple; the judge has satisfaction that the plaintiff did not dishonour the requirement to attend the discovery. Therefore, the court’s requirement was met.

I do not think the lawyer; Mr. Brian Gray of Toronto in any way is slow in his understanding the relationship between the Imam and His Murid! He is slowly but surely progressing to acquire the systematic methodology in this court case. He is handsomely remunerated for his services and has his stretch of time for the completion of this court case. However, Mr. Nagib Tajdin and Mr. Alnaz Jiwa do not have the similar luxury to have an on going encounter with Mawlana Hazar Imam and Ismaili Muslims Institution! Whatever Mr. Nagib Tajdin and Alnaz are saying or implied, they should ponder about the original statement of claim by Mawlana Hazar Imam. Whatever that has transpired during the discovery should be assumed that it was a gift from Mawlana Hazar Imam to His Murid. My mind is bluntly prompting to me that the decision on this court case will be pronounced but my heart is prompting to me otherwise! Today I believe whatever the versions of this court case is pronounced by the plaintiff and the defendants should be left behind. We should look into future for betterment of Ismaili Muslims Community! We should all unconditionally abide by the wishes of Mawlana Hazar Imam and reaffirm our allegiance. This is our salvation!

I would like to thank everyone for giving their time in sharing their thoughts and knowledge. I take this opportunity to thank the Librarian Umed who have allowed and moderated this discussion. Mr. Bloglaw, like you we all do so because we care and out of love for the Imam. “May Mawlana Hazar Imam accept all our Seva, and grant us all more Seva, good health, happiness and both material and spiritual prosperity. AMEEN!! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Giving feedback and sharing
On November 29th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Giving feedback and sharing concerns is healthy and good for the Jamat, the institutions and the Leadership. Not a single person says there should be no conciliation including the Editor of, and those posting in Vancouverite and Mr Shivji. Everyone, Imam, Leaders, & Jamat agree on this. Yet there are no discussions/meetings for conciliation since the meeting in October. Unless there has been and we do not know about them ?. If so, can someone (Leaders/Alnaz/Nagib/Jamat members) let us know ?

* United Arab Emirates

There are no discussions
On November 30th, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

There are no direct discussions with the lawyer except those in the legal setup in front of the Prothonotary Tabib during the Case management Conferences.

Reply to Brother Abdullah (RE: letter to Sachedina)
On November 29th, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

Dearest Abdullah, thank you for your kind words and support. Mawlana Sultan Mohamed Shah has said in His memoirs, "Where there is love, there is no fear, and where there is fear, there is no love."

This then says it all. I have taken my stance out of love, completely without fear of any retaliation. After-all, what can they do to me? Excommunicate me? Kick me out of jamatkhanas? Stop me from any appointments to positions of leadership? They can do whatever. But they will not be able to remove my Mawla from my heart. Neither will I stop my campaign to have such leaders, who have no regard for the Imam, removed from their prestigious positions from which they reign like tyrannical kings.

I hope many more of my brothers and sisters will shed their fears aside, and stand up for our Mawla!!

At this juncture, I would like to thank Suleman for making such valid points.

@Zeenataara Allahrakhya re: above post (Nov. 29th)
On November 30th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
It is I who am grateful that you wrote this letter and posted it: it has, no doubt, awakened more than one reader. Insh'Allah, more members of the Jamat will actively get involved and press their leaders to take action.
And I thank you most sincerely also for this beautiful quote of M.S.M.S.'s Memoirs. Mowla sukhi raakhè, ameen.
Ya Aly madad, sister Zeenatara.

* Canada

I remember there is a Ginan
On November 29th, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

I remember there is a Ginan where this era-period is predicted. I think it was Ek Baar Phir or Pehli Baar ...? A time will come when ? Can anyone get thisGinan with the translation or a link for it ? Maybe it is on this site. I cant find and may not have the right name.

* United Arab Emirates

Trust
On November 28th, 2010 Suleman (not verified) says:

A few months ago, the Golden Jubilee Farman made by Hazar Imam in Singapore was read out in our jamatkhana. Not extracts but the whole firman was read out. At that time I was surprised when the whole paragraph about the "jubas" of leaders was left out. I was present in singapore darbar and I am 100% sure that Hazar Imam had made light hearted comments about the jubas of the leaders. Similarly, when London firman was read, the entire comments made by the Imam about leaders not relaying information to the jamat from the Imam was omitted from the reading. Whilst I was still pondering over these discrepancies, the case involving Nagib and Alnaz came up, whose details are open to all. You are all aware of the happenings - the forged letters purported to be from the Imam, the announcement made in jamatkhanas worldwide, using Prince Amin's name in vain, the forged notarisations etc. I do not wish to go into the full details but behind all this travesty is one man: Dr S Sachedina who has broken all boundaries of trust!!! How can I or anyone else ever trust anything that is ever read out in the jamatkhanas again? What guarantee is there that a message from the Imam is actually from the Imam Himself? Truly, this is quite a horrifying situation. And yet, everybody is quiet or going on about sabar etc. Only Zeenatara, Kanize. Bloglow and a few others have been brave enough to speak out. The truth of the matter is that this leader has completely eroded the trust we have or had in communications made in jamatkhana which is a sacred place where our Imam sends guidance and blessings for us via taliqas, sandeshas and firmans. Now everything read in jamatkhana will be questionable. At least according to me who has seen what an errant leader can do. So short of receiving a video message or audio message from the Imam Himself, we cannot trust anything else that is read out in jamatkhanas. How can we accept this situation? First of all, Dr Sachedina has to go! The Imam, out of His infinite mercy asked Nagib and Alnaz not to pursue the forgeries but this does not mean they were not done. I join Zeenatara in her demand that he should go and pray to Hazar Imam to appoint leaders who will not cross the sacred lines of trust that we have built up over centuries and that can be eroded within seconds.

@Suleman re SS
On November 30th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Suleman Sachedina is not the only one, he has good company, a good few who are as bad or worse.

Since 1993 i have been seeking to raise awareness of the jamat to seek accountabilty and answerability after the Imam urged us to do so.

Not only ask SS MM and others, but pressure your local leaders, mukhis, other sevadaris in local areas to demand answers. Unfortunately these local leaders keep quiet or else they fear not being reappointed, and as such they betray the imam's trust.

Sorry state of affairs, but MSMS had said convert Ismailis into true Ismailis, thereby making a clear distention between true Ismailis as opposed to just Ismailis.

Ismailis are all over the globe, but how many true ismailis are remaining?

* Canada

@Alnaz re: above post of Nov. 30th (reply to Suleman)
On December 1st, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
What an interesting remark, brother Alnaz, in your last line, and what an enlightening farman of MSMS!
Just yesterday I was wondering about Pir Hasan Kabirdin (a.s.) who is to be "anantnaa taranhaar", I was wondering who would be the anant; who knows, maybe among them will be those Ismailis who are Ismaili just in name, because they happened to be born to Ismaili parents but they do not have any grounding in the faith?
The situation is so scarry...
On the other hand, I remember that musical play of a few years ago, Ibn-e-Yakzaan (I hope I am not mistaken in the name) where the audience is made to understand that esoteric matters, matters highly spiritual are not for the masses, but only for the few...Still, it is such a shame that we be born in this incredible faith and we be totally unaware of its worth...Like a thirsty person who is near a well but does not drink from it...
Mowla rakshaa kartaa rahè. Ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Suleman re: above post (Nov. 28th)
On November 30th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, the trust has been eroded. And the situation is appalling. And what saddens me is that hardly any member of the Jamat seems to be aware of the real fact (when they know about the suit) and almost no one dares speaking up and asking their leaders to put an end to this horrible matter...I sometimes wonder if such a situation ever existed in our history before?

I too used to worry, a few months ago, wondering how to trust the announcements made in Jamat Khanas now, because of these dreadful lies, how not to be misled. Now, I have the deep conviction that if we remain steadfast in our imaan, dua in Khane, and dasond, then no one will mislead us. "Koy apro vaar vaanko nè karè." Ameen, and Insh'Allah.

It was nice to read your post, Suleman, nice to see someone else on the same wave-length...:-) Thank you for it.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Kanize (reply)
On November 30th, 2010 Suleman (not verified) says:

Bravo Kanize! I salute your wisdom and your faith. Truly, when under the protection of Hazar Imam, no one can touch even a hair of our bodies. That is exactly why there is no need to fear and take a passive stance. Just like it is against the principles of humanity to turn away when you observe a passerby on the road getting mugged, just because you do not wish to get involved, similarly in this matter each person who has read the details of this case are liable to be questioned on the day of judgement as to why they decided to keep quiet and not stand up for what is right. So bravo to you Kanize, sister Zeenatara, brother Bloglow, and just a few others who voiced their protests.

@Suleman re: above post (Nov. 30th)
On December 1st, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you, Suleman!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@ Suleman Reg: trust
On November 28th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I think that what ever is happening now in courts of Canada are already the measures that will Inshallah set everything right.
Hazar Imam is aware of all this and hence via the medium of Alnaz and Nagib everything is being orchestrated. It is taking a process to set things that are going “not so right” for a long time but there is always a limit to everything and now is the time for a change and I think a major change!!

We just have to have patience and faith in Hazar Imam that He is for sure going to do the right thing. Dr S. Sachedina already got and will get some more opportunities to correct himself but if he will continue to ignore Mawla’s mercy then I do not know what will be his fate!

Nagib and Alnaz are set for generations of blessings according to my belief. And I am very sure of this belief! But the great things in life never come by easy.

* United States

@Alibhai Jiwani re: above post of Nov. 28th (@Suleman re: trust)
On November 30th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, Nagib and Alnaz have lived most trying, terrible months. And it is not over yet, alas. May Mowla continue to protect them. Ameen.

In addition to having patience I think that those members of the Jamat who are aware of the real facts in this suit and who have some grounding in religious knowledge, those members, no matter how few they are in number, should put pressure on their leaders so that they in turn request Mr. Sachedina to end this suit (since no Imam will sue a mureed whose bayyat He has accepted); our laxism is very wrong, I think, and it is because of this laxism that leaders cross the boundaries of the acceptable (knowing well we won't react) and get away with m....(forgive the expression) These leaders must understand that competence and answerability are expected of them, and it is the duty of the members of the jamat to remind them of this.
As Alnaz pointed it out earlier, rather than lamenting and talking about these things, we should voice our concerns to the leaders.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

The legal Issues & Facts !
On November 28th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Nazneen with legal expertise @ Vancouverite says …

.Bloglaw, I was not jumping to any wrong conclusions. You have been misled not me. The 25 minutes of guidance by our Imam (to all that were present) so far, we have heard the Defendant’s version. And we all know where their credibility lies.
Our Beloved Imam was supposed to answer the questions that were supposed to have been asked, He was not there to broadcast that He was the Plaintiff. It was clearly understood that He was the Plaintiff because He had to raise His right hand and affirm to say the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me God. I rest my case and Bloglaw go take a holiday. If you are really a Brit then take an active in the forthcoming Royal Wedding. Leave us alone!

Bloglaw RESPONSE

The legal issue on A findings of facts is whether Imam said on record that Imam filed the lawsuit and Imam is therefore legally the plaintiff. If not, the Judge on a findings of fact will have legal difficulty to rely on an implication that because Imam came, it is therefore understood or can be assumed he filed or authorised the filing of the lawsuit and so therefore he is the plaintiff. The judge will wonder and consider why did Imam not say so when the judge is considering a finding/ruling on facts. Then the judge has to also decide if the discovery on the record can be considered in giving the ruling. If so all representations from all parties will also be considered by the Judge.

Then the judge also has to consider all submissions and then further decide if there is an arguable case for trial or there is no case to answer. I agree with you 100% that we have so far not heard from the leaders in question or Mr Gray. I also agree 100% Imam does, will and did tell the truth and the whole truth. I do not agree with you that the Alnaz and Nagib are not telling the truth about directions given on 15 Oct 2010 to conciliate and settle by consent. See my earlier posts and analysis on this issue too. This is the best option and what was as directed by Imam.

I will certainly participate and enjoy the Royal wedding in UK. Did you know that Katie Middleton is also related to MHI. Another good reason (: n'est ce pas ?

* United Kingdom

@Bloglaw
On November 30th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Bloglaw although your assessment and reviews of the case is commendable, may I make a comment or two.

There are people who, for one reason or another, cannot "see" even though they look. The eyes look, but it is the mind that sees, and no matter what rays of light reflect into the eyes, mind can only see what it wants to see or expects,

This is is long way of saying it is useless of arguing with the eight or so who will not be able to "see" no matter what you do.

I urge you to stop debating with them, let them debate between themselves, don't waste your energies of such lost souls.

Spend your energies only in enlightening those who are interested by digesting the voluminous materials and explaining it plainly to the jamats at large.

* Canada

FAITH AND LOGIC – THERE IS NO CONFLICT ?
On November 28th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

News Editor - … What I see here is a failure of the combination of faith and logic. Sure, in a case where you have not proclaimed allegiance, you would be right to carry out certain legal moves. Where this is failing the defendants is the fact that they have wasted the court’s time by seeking and then fumbling the discovery. Nagib was granted the discovery on a number of points he made about flashes of light etc. But he seems to have come face-to-face with flashes of light! He said with his own mouth during discovery that he was confused and did not know what to do. So when he asked the court for discovery – was his intent to ask questions? Did he not give assurances that he had five questions? Did he ask them? Then, he comes out and makes counter claims. So the failure here is his. My point is that Nagib remains confused. I have two suggestions. To Nagib, I say fight this without the pretext of being an Ismaili. I say to the Aga Khan’s lawyer – fight Nagib as you would any adversary and not as an Ismaili.

RESPONSE BY BLOGLAW –

1 I have no doubt Mr Gray is fighting the lawsuit legally to the best of his and his firms abilities and resources. That they should and must do. I agree 100% with you on this.

2 Regarding discovery this was to use your expressions fumbled by Gray and Nagib. Alnaz was an attendee. To Mr Gray this was purely a legal confrontational discovery meeting. To Nagib this was purely to seek directions from his Imam which he has followed.

3 The defendants are following directions they believe were given by Imam and they have signed a consent order and submitted it. They have not made counter claims as the Editor of Vancouverite says..

4 Regarding discovery even if it is admitted at the hearing on 7th will not legally mean a judgment. Mr Gray should have asked the critical questions for Imam to respond. Why did Mr Gray not do so ? Nagib was seeking directions. Imam knew and chose to give directions and wishes off the record. There must be a good reasons for this

5 With respect I do not see a major conflict between faith and logic. One comes from the other. Imam has reminded us of our limitations and has guided us on intellect and faith. Imam reassures us that there is no conflict between our faith and Intellect. If you and many have this, then you should discuss this with ITREB. If there are many then this will be addressed institutionally.

I sincerely hope & pray that this case is settled by conciliation and agreement, before 7th December

* United Kingdom

Mr Shivji concludes wrongly.
On November 27th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Mr Shivji concludes wrongly. He forgets conveniently that Alnaz and Nagib have complied and signed the consent order as directed by MHI Mr Shivji says “…It appears the defendants have no intention to settle this court case amicably. Their original game plan is to humiliate the Ismaili Muslims Community, The Ismaili Muslims Institution, and make apparent to court that HH the Aga Khan is ethically further from the accuracy!..”

Editor of Vancouverite replies “ ..You (Mr Shivji) are justified in your conclusion that this is a calculated attempt at undermining the leadership of the Ismailis while at the same time appearing to be devoted adherents of the faith….”

Response by Bloglaw:

I see much speculation, a rich diversity of interpretations and jumping to the wrong conclusions by my 8 brothers and sister/s in the Vancouverite site : Editor, Zak, follower, Soulmate, Shivji. Nazneen, Panjebhai and Ali (:

It is not clear what Alnaz and Nagib are saying, nor what Mr Gray is saying. We need to read the submissions. ( I hope a summary will be uploaded).
However It seems clear legally that for the purposes of a settlement Alnaz/Tajdin agreed not to pursue allegations of fraud against the staff of MHI or that MHI did not file the lawsuit. So when Tajdin says he will not argue that Imam is not the plaintiff but he did not agree Imam filed the lawsuit. That is what he means. Mr Gray did not ask that question in the official record. Mr Gray also did not ask them to confirm this was an unconditional consent, and that the withdrawal of allegations is against all leaders who are volunteers and arguably not staff etc . Why Mr Gray did not do so is also surprising because he had no religious or emotive reasons not to ask and say what he wished. Imam was controlling the flow of the conversation. Mr Gray knows how important clarity of evidence and facts are necessary. He must have his reasons which do not seem obvious.

Alnaz and Nagib have said also that Imam did not at any time say that Imam is the Plaintiff and Imam filed the lawsuit and that Imam wrote the letters etc. On the other hand Imam came to the meeting and therefore Imam is the plaintiff and it can be argued that Imam did not need to say so.

If the discovery as it seems is not a part of the hearing on 7th December, then a summary judgment in favour of either party is not certain. Even though Nagib or Alnaz do not present arguments and rely purely on written representations because this was not what Imam directed them to do.

* United Kingdom

Imam attended because he is
On November 27th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Imam attended because he is legally named on the lawsuit as a Plaintiff and the court directed Imam to attend.

Mr Gray questioned the examiner Nagib. Nagib the examiner did not question the Imam. Imam gave directions off the record. Mr Gray did not ask Imam any questions for example are you the plaintiff or did you write to Nagib ? Gray did not start and say on the record or ask Nagib Tajdin if he was satisfied now that Imam is the plaintiff ? Gray did ask if discovery directions are satisfied ?

The Judge will look at the official record which also says Mr Gray asked Nagib to ask 5 questions and so the implication is that the Imam came prepared and was aware and prepared to respond ? Was Imam asked to respond ?

However in my view the above is not enough on its own legally to conclude that Imam filed the lawsuit and is legally speaking the plaintiff. Attendance at discovery on its own is not conclusive evidence.

Therefore I agree the decision on 7th December is not a foregone conclusion. Even if somehow the discovery record is admitted. Since this is in the Gray submissions the Judge will certainly know and Gray arguments will include discovery.

* United Arab Emirates

THE ZAHERI AND BATINI ROLE OF OUR IMAM
On November 26th, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

The immense pain of the jamaat about the Agakhan Lawsuit arises from the confusion about the unique position of our Imam.

As it has evolved after the death of the Prophet Mohamed (SAS), Shia religious belief accepts the Imamate as the manifest light of God and Mowla Ali as the 1st Imam. Ismailis hold Hazar Imam as the 49th direct descendent of Mowla Ali.

Ismaili Khoja’s also believe that in another age, God manifested as Vishnu Bhagwan and the line of the Ismaili Imamate is the 10th avatar of Vishnu, as predicted in the Hindu scriptures. It is this manifest form of God, the Batini Imam, that is the subject of our prayers day and night.

But we all know, Allah has created laws for the orderly functioning of the Universe and when in a Zaheri form, our Imam equally complies with the rules of nature. As Prince Karim Agakhan 1V, the Imam does not bring back the dead, change the past nor control the future. As we all know, Imams do fall sick and pass on (otherwise there would not be 49).

So when the Imam is called upon to administer the affairs of his followers, as his great-great grandfather, Aga Hassanali Shah did in 1846 when he came to the Indian subcontinent or as Hazar Imam has been doing in Central Asia since the fall of communism, He needs the assistance of sevadaris, employees and contracted professionals. And to ensure orderly governance, the Imam has set up a secretariat, appointed councils and also promulgated a written Constitution.

So when one of these sevadaris, employees and councillors make mistakes, cheats or get power-crazy, the Imam fully expects his leadership would use the mechanisms of the Constitution or Arbitration Boards to make the necessary corrections. Just as God’s rules of nature are not random, the Imam’s institutions for the jamaat are equally governed by a Constitution that provides consistency. Because of His strong convictions on this point, the Imam is well-known for his strong endorsement of a rules-based society for other members of the Ummah.

So it is time that Ismailis stop the confusion on the Zaheri and Batini roles of the Imam; the Imam does not perform miracles to build his hospitals and Ismaili Centres; He uses logic, expertise and professionals. In this dispute, there will be no “magic” cure from the Imam. He has given us the Constitution, the Arbitration Boards and the all the systemic infrastructure that we need to use to resolve this matter. As every informed Ismaili knows, it was the shameful failure of the leadership to use these mechanisms that compelled our Imam to submit to Federal Court of Canada orders to appear in person.

On one side, we have two sevadaris who stand accused of distributing Farmans improperly; on the other, we have several leaders who are accused of failing in their duty, then acting arrogantly and dishonestly.

Let’s use the Imam’s bestowed Constitution to get to the truth.

* Seychelles

@ Abdul : Zahiri and Batuni role of Mawla
On November 27th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Imam’s constitution in this case cannot have any role at this point since the case is in the federal court of Canada for so long. If the leaders had any intention to respect and honor constitution they should have not sued Nagib in the first place since there is no article of copy right in the current constitution.

Yes, agree Hazar Imam works in the Zahiri world within the laws defined by the society and courts, yet when the times come and needed he strongly exercises His Batuni powers and all of who are followers of batuni faith have experienced his batuni help in some form or the other at various times in our lives especially when there seems no other way out.

But after the calamity passes away we become comfortable so quickly that we conveniently forget his batuni help and start believing “I” did it. No matter what games Mr. Gray plays the outcome is going to be in favor of the defendants.Because Mawla is with them in the spirit! That is my guarantee!

Hazar Imam is cool and no intervening because he knows the outcome. Wouldn’t you be if you knew the result?

Also what I don't understand is this unique character of Avtars and Mawla who in every period create a massive confusion instead of giving black and white instructions and knowing these humans are so never going to work in unity!
He either enjoys those confusions or does not know to deal staight forward!!!! Because he has his winning trump card of divine intervention?????

* United States

Consitution has a role even
On November 28th, 2010 Pirani@ Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Constitution has a role even in this unprecedented & ongoing lawsuit. Parties could agree to withdraw by consent and conciliate internally. They could agree a stay to conciliate and then do so. This needs extraordinary will. There is an article in the constitution regarding copyright, arguably under all matters.

Mawla is with and for all Murids. I agree Mawla knowing an outcome means he has intervened. There is no black and white without any gray. This lawsuit is no exception. We may not understand Imam's vision and wishes immediately and in some cases in a lifetime. Being confused and uncertain is a part of life and of being different so that we can understand and learn from on another. Hence it is impossible to fully understand all attributes of the uniqueness of Imam (Avtars). For example take the Quran and the "final" message - There are many interpretations and need for continuity of guidance.

* United Arab Emirates

Islam did not start when the
On November 27th, 2010 Alibhai (not verified) says:

Islam did not start when the Quran was reveled. Islam started with the start of the worlds and Adam. So references you have made are all relevant. We need to be remined and many may not know or recall.

The age of miracles to prove and demonstrate stopped with the revelation of the final message. Imam knows, Imam Interprets and Imam guides us in the Zahiri and Batuni. Otherwise like Prophet Mohammed and Prophets before Him, and Imams after them (Peace be upon them all and SAW), they are human like the rest of us.

However there are miracles all around us every day. Many choose to see them and many don't. We have the power to choose but not to determine or know the outcome. Many think we know and that we are the controlling the outcome. This is not so. Imam has regularly and recently reminded us again of our human limitations, and the power of the Batuni, the spiritual. The power of Allah.

Thanks

* India

You could be in His constant physical presence yet far away from
On November 25th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Who are really close to Mawla? Following verse of ginan illustrates it. The attendance in JK is vital for our lives

Karanina hina Ali ghar bhula – Shah ghar bhula,
To Gurnarka meda tenkhe nahiji

Translation:

They who are impious, forget the abode of Mawla Ali,
To them the spiritual joy of being in Mawla’s presence is lost.

Commentary:

The Qur’an says: “These are the people who buy the life of this world at the price of the Hereafter…” (Holy Qur’an, 2:86)
The impious ones fail in their allegiance they have sworn to Imam-e-Zaman, only increasing in their impiety and wrong deeds. Blinded by the evil, they turn away from all the spiritual bounties and Mawla’s Grace which is ever present in the Jamatkhana. Thus they become the losers.( source:Simerg.com). I hope Alnaz and Nagib are not compromising on this vital necessity. You have nothing to worry

* United States

Reflecting on a post from 3 months ago gives more meaning today
On November 24th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Historically leadership has created obstructions for Momins
On August 24th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:
A true momin's faith will always undergo testings!

The following history is remarkable. When al-Mu’ayyad-din Shirazi ,an exceptional poet and ardent Momin of the Imam left Persia and went to Egypt with a burning desire to see Imam Caliph Mustansirbillah, he feared the intrigues of the ministers who did not permit any man of learning to see Imam personally unless he complied with their dictates and acknowledged their superiority. On reaching Egypt he experienced all that he had feared. He was lodged in a small house and his visits to the court were short and limited to prevent him from seeing the Imam.

Most of the Vaziers and their junior officers were jealous of al-Muy’ayyad for they all saw in him the real threat to their positions. Disappointed, he finally decided to leave Egypt and wrote about his frustrations to Tastari, who was one of the powerful people in the Fatimid State. Shirazi wrote: “I have not come to Egypt to seek wealth or gain any position. The promptings of my faith have brought me here. I have come to visit the Imam and not the Vaziers and their officials. infortunately, these people stop me from having a look at my Imam and now I am returning disappointed” The sudden death of Tastari gave al- Mu’ayyad another opportunity to renew his efforts to get some time to be in the holy presence of the Imam and with the help of one of the minister he was able to have the “Deedar” of the Imam, for the first time in his life. ” I was taken near the place where from I saw the bright light of the Prophethood.My eyes were dazzled by the light .I shed tears of joy and felt as if I was looking at the face of the prophet of Allah and of the commander of the faithful, Hazrat Ali. I prostrated myself before the one who is the fittest person to bow to. I wanted to say something but I was awe struck… I tried to speak but my tongue refused to move. People asked me to say what I wished to say. I could say nothing."

The Imam said: “Leave him. Let his fear and awe subside.” He was in Sajda for hours!! After several years, the Imam graciously granted him the position of the chief Dai (Hujjat or proof of Imam) of the Fatimid Caliphate. While Appointing to this prestigious position the 18th Imam himself wrote a Qasida, which praises Shirazi’s knowledge and unique competence and his ordeal to visit the Imam of the time.

The Imam wrote:
“O Hujja, who is famous among the people,
Our doors were not locked to you
Except due to a hurtful, disturbing cause:
Our shunning was the shunning of a concerned father
Our followers have lost their right guidance,
So spread among them what you will of our knowledge
And be for them the concerned parent.
Even though you are the last in our dawa you have surpassed the compass of earlier dais
The like of you cannot be found among those who have gone, from all the people nor those that remain”

Amazing! Ever heard of Imam writing a Qasida for a murid? This proves Imam’s love is much more for his true Momin than a momin’s love for Imam. Source for the above article: Life and lectures of Al Muaayyad fid din al Shirazi
late Javed Muscati, Ismailia association for Pakistan 1950,

Reply

@ Alibhai Jiwani
On August 29th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:
When Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi was given audience by the Imam Mustansir Billah the first time, he was transfixed for sometime as he experienced bright light of prophet hood and of Maula Ali. Although all others presents there did not experienced anything at all. This was nothing but ‘Noorani Deedar’ granted only to Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi by the Imam Himself.

A similar event took place during 8th Avatar, Lord Krishna, to Arjuna (one of the five Pandu brothers) at the battlefield. Here too, all others present in the battlefield saw nothing unusual. They just saw that Krishna was talking to Arjuna.
reply A true momin's faith will always undergo testings!

On August 29th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Alibhai Jiwani narrated an event related to Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi who has to suffer obstacles and hardships just after his arrival at Cairo and during his initial stay there at the hands of very senior leaders of Imam Mustansir Billah. There is no indication in the history that the Imam intervened or that he castigated his leaders for inhuman treatment of his future Hujja. Though later on, after a couple years or so, he was granted highest posts of Hujja as well as vizier of Fatimid caliphate; both these posts he held until his death in later part of 1078. Exactly similar hardships and obstacles were also experienced by Hasan-bin-Sabbah during his later part of the stay at Cairo. The event runs as follows:

Hasan-bin-Sabbah arrived in Cairo early in 1078 when Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi was vizier. Hasan-bin-Sabbah was well received by Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi and stayed there for 3 years and visited Imam Mustansir Billah at least once when it was revealed to him by the Imam himself that his successor would be Nizar. Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi died in later part of 1078, and all powerful Badr al Jamali succeeded him as vizier, who became jealous of Hasan-bin-Sabbah and banished him from Cairo. Imam did not intervene in this case as well.

We all know that later on this same wonderful Ismaili hero and missionary single handedly planned and succeeded in establishing Nizari Ismaili rule in northern Iran( at and around Almut)

We can not understand every action of Imams. Why? The simple reply is: we, human being are gifted with only limited intelligence( Aqle juzz). And only for this reason that most of the historians could not understand many decisions and actions of our Imams Al Hakim bi Amr Allah (16th Imam) and Rukn al Din Khurshah( 27th Imam) and hence heavily criticized those decisions and actions.

* United States

Imam says Learn from the past & seize the future!
On November 26th, 2010 Alibhai (not verified) says:

Hazar mam said the following a few days ago in Doha "...Great icons of the past must not be allowed to disappear, without an opportunity to come back to life and serve the future.

At the same time, in looking at the places we have met and the projects we have honoured, we also see enormous diversity. Diversity, in fact, is part of the essence of Islam.

The unity of the Ummah does not imply sameness. Working in an Islamic context need not confine us to constraining models.

Nor does respecting the past mean copying the past. Indeed, if we hold too fast to what is past, we run the risk of crushing that inheritance. The best way to honour the past is to seize the future "

* India

Reply to Kanize (Canada)
On November 23rd, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

Thank you dear Kanize for your response. You are so correct in your surmise about working in the zaheri presence of Imam. He is the sun, and if not careful one can get burnt very easily. But the dhongas seem to be immune. They do work hard, no doubt, they also work well and this is good. But they CANNOT and MUST NOT lose their adab. If they do then the honorable thing to do would be to bow out as penance. I have sent my letter to Dr Sachedina via email as well as courier. He may laugh it off, or crumple it and throw it into the waste bin but I have also placed the same request to Mowla Himself and I have the faith that He will listen.

Meanwhile, may the love for Him grow in our hearts. Today, during Eid-e-Gadhir celebrations, this beautiful verse of ginan was recited in jamatkhana which I wish to share with you:
"Ali Nabi ni Aal ne je kare pyar,
Te jivne ame sambhaar shu,
Jyare padashe kaljug kalikaar
Amaara pota na karine raakshu
Ane mahadan ma utaarshu paar"
(Those who show love for the Imam will be specially protected by Him against the world. He will keep them as His own and ensure their salvation)

Ya Ali Madad

@Zeenataara Allahrakhya re: above post (Nov. 23rd)
On November 23rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you, Zeenatara. Ameen to you dua. And thank you soooooo much for sharing this beautiful ginan verse, I have never read it nor do I remember ever hearing it...Shukhar Mowla.
If more members of the Jamat express their indignation to the leaders, Insh'Allah, these leaders will put pressure on M. Sachedina. And perhaps, in the future, they will feel more accountable. Inside a week, three persons, including you, have posted here their letter to the leaders, that's unbelievable! And perhaps, a few more (hamaarè jèsè :-) will have written too, but without posting their letter here...We, members of the jamat, must take an active part in the jamat and feel concerned by what is happening.
And it does not matter if M. Sachedina crumples your letter after reading it: you will have been heard and you will have expressed yourself, that is what matters... And above all, by posting it here, you will have inspired many. Again, thank you. Take care.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Kanzie Leaders are aware,
On November 21st, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Kanzie Leaders are aware, Imam is aware and thank you

I think whoever does what Imam wishes is doing the right thing. Nagib and Alnaz are doing what is right. The outcome of this lawsuit will be decided by MHI. Whatever and whenever is the outcome, It will be what is best. Imam knows what to do, when, and knows best.

I feel Alnaz and Nagib, as sevadars, have been given an unprecedented and unique seva of being the catalyst for change at a critical time in our history. However we must not expect change overnight. We should suggest but not decide. We should desire the change and not seek or desire change, only to suit our personal desires. (MSMS)

What is absolutely certain is that change for the better has begun, and that Imam has expressed his thoughts and wishes for all of us to support each other and look after the best interest of the Jamat.

A small but significant indication is the 25th Anniversary of the Ismaili centre London. Who were present and what happened. There was HH Prince Charles, the Crown Prince of the United Kingdom. There was Hazar Imam and about 250 “Ismaili ambassadors” including Ismaili Staff of the Ismaili centre London, Ismaili Volunteeers, Current & Earlier Mukhi Sahebans of Darkhana and other JK’s in UK.

Hazar Imam and H H Prince Charles decided to walk around individually and talk to everyone in small groups. Hazar Imam and Prince Charles did so for about one hour. Many had the privilege of having direct discussions and most had the opportunity to be within earshot of azar Imam and H H Prince Charles individually. There were no formal speeches. What is also wonderful and touching is that the event images were uploaded overnight and Mukhi Sahebans personally informed their Jamats in JK’s at the first opportunity. Guidance, wishes, and directions given by MHI were and are being shared by and amongst members of the Jamat in UK. I will not be surprised that the video will be shown to the Jamat around the world and or there will be a readout in JK’s soon.

This I believe is a significant change from the norm of who is invited, what happens in such a high profile and outreach events. In fact this is not what happened when Imam came a few months ago when all the top leaders were in London and Imam gave them his thoughts in a speech setting for 1 hour and asked them to share his thoughts with the Jamat

Back to the Lawsuit and serious gaps highlighted by Alnaz and Nagib. Since Imam knows, Leaders know, and we are certain Imam will do what is best. Alnaz & Nagib should feel privileged and happy if they have decided to leave the decision entirely to the court by simply amending their defense in accordance with directions given by Hazar Imam on 15th October (which includes the consent order signed by them) They will have followed Imam’s direction and wishes to the letter and spirit.

Nagib and Alnaz will also be comforted and certain in the knowledge that it is Imam who will decide what happens next and what happens next will happen internally and will include assurances given by MHI on 15 October 2010. I also feel certain that the end of the court case is not the end, but only the beginning of a new beginning. Another milestone.

* United Kingdom

@ Bloglaw
On November 22nd, 2010 Nick (Candad) (not verified) says:

"I also feel certain that the end of the court case is not the end, but only the beginning of a new beginning. Another milestone... Ameen......... Insha'allah with Mowla Bapas Blessings "Khusiyo ke Din Vapas Lottenge Humari Jamaatmein."

* Canada

Re: above post of Nov. 21st by Bloglaw
On November 21st, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Oh la la, Bloglaw, your last line has given me goose bumps! Ameen, summa ameen. Insh'Allah. Thank you so much for sharing with us the details of Hazer Imam's visit to the London Centre. You "sound" so much at peace, and serene, Bloglaw. Thank you for reassuring us about the near future. Mowla bhalo karè, Bloglaw.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@ Bloglaw Thanks. We need to
On November 22nd, 2010 Hassan (not verified) says:

@ Bloglaw Thanks. We need to feel and show love, respect and kindness for each other and amongst ourselves. We also need to communicate amongst ourselves with love respect and kindness at all times. I feel very sad to say that this is not the case and I hope this is work in progress.

* India

@bloglaw
On November 21st, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

I agree.
Excellent reflections by bloglaw

* United States

To Exercise patience and trust in Mawla. He will do the best .
On November 21st, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Exercise patience and trust in Mawla

Vazir Dr Sachedina is appointed by MHI, we have no right to ask for his resignation, according to me. Hazar Imam in zahir world never fires any one. He is Allah’s Noor; he is all knowing, He always exercises extreme patience in matters like this. (Ref: ISMS first firman in Kalame Imame mubin, vol 1) The very fact that SS has got an opportunity to serve MHI so closely he must have accumulated some very good deeds and Ibadat in the past this life or previous that he has been rewarded by Imam with such a great opportunity.

He will continue to reap the benefits until his quota is replenished or his misdeeds piles up enough to deprive him of this extremely fortunate position. (But he will be given plenty of opportunities to correct himself)

"In Islam the Faithful believe in Divine justice and are convinced that the solution of the great problem of predestination and free will is to be found in the compromise that God knows what man is going to do, but that man is free to do it or not. Wars are condemned. Peace ought to be universal. Islam means peace, God's peace with man and the peace of men one to another. ." [Memoirs] -- Aga Khan III

Mawla has a way of managing everything in Batin and he knows it better than all of us. He sometimes lets the person do what he chooses all the way and then comes the reward or punishment whatever he deserves! We are not able to perceive what is good for us but he has knowledge of everything so He will do what is in the best interest of everyone.
In a silent way! Big way! More just than you can ever imagine! No one escapes any karma bad or good! The bondages of karma are very complex.

If you do one little good deed He absolutely notices and if you do one little bad He absolutely notices it. For one good deed he rewards you with 100 good blessings but one bad deed he gives you only one punishment because he is most merciful and beneficent.(Ref Quran)

So just like MHI we all have to have sabar and exercise good will and good gesture and behave with complete faith. It is MHI’s prerogative that he chooses SS as his top leader. When he keeps and when he does not. There is no democracy in religion. Ours is a love and faith based “Batuni” religion. Trust Him, he will do the right thing for everyone. There is a reason why case is going forward. MHI can end it in a fraction of a second if he so desires.
.

* United States

Response to Alibhai Jiwani (USA)
On November 22nd, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

Hats off to your deep knowledge and staunch faith. Every word you write is true. But what you have not accounted for is love

When it comes to love, it becomes absolutely impossible to stand by and keep sabar and faith when your loved one is being insulted so openly and especially when the loved one is your Mawla. I have stated in the first sentence that Mowla has infinite patience and perseverance and is all-merciful. But for me, a mere human being, who is blinded to everything else but love, I cannot take it when somebody who has been granted such a privilege by Mowla Himself behaves inappropriately with that very same Mowla in front of my eyes. In such a case, keeping quiet would be a shame, a let-down for love.

Ask yourself: your wife whom you love dearly is treated so shabbily in your presence. She may not mind, she may forgive but you will certainly mind. Why? Because you love her.

Have you read the Ramayana? if you have then you will know how Bharat reacted towards his own mother when she banished his beloved Ram to exile. Ram forgave Kaikai but Bharat vowed to never look at her face again. That is love. You will also know how Lakshman used to react when his beloved Ram was affronted by anybody, and spoken to inappropriately. That is love. Throughout, Ram maintained Himself as the epitome of patience, perseverance and forgiveness. But those who loved Him could not tolerate, even in those eras.

So I agree that Dr Sachedina has been appointed by the Imam Himself due to his past good deeds or whatever but I CANNOT agree when he just behaves with the Imam anyhow, and nobody else should either. I am even beseeching the Imam Himself that it is painful for me to hear and see all this. Please, please remove him. Do not let him continue talking to You and behaving with You in this manner, Ameen.

I hope my position has now been better understood.

@Zeenataara Allahrakhya (Nov. 22nd)
On November 22nd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Yes, Zeenat, your position totally, totally makes sense from the point of view of love. Thank you for clarifying it the way you have above. Yes, Bharat's actions were strictly based on love, even his accepting to let Sri Raam go into exile...And he himself lived as a hermit for 14 years...Because he loved Him. Indeed, it really hurts to read the transcript of all those cross-examinations and the description of the behavior of the leaders on Oct. 15, and what you described in your letter ...Appalling. Truly appalling. I really admire your courage in writing to M. Sachedina. Did you mail the letter or is it an e-mail you sent?

But, what saddens me, Zeenataara, is that, the next person that will replace him, if he is not able to remain steadfast in his attendance of Jamat Khana and other religious duties, he too will gradually be misled (and will mislead others), as zahèri closeness to Mowla Bapa can be very dangerous...I would never want to work in the zahèri presence of Mowla Bapa in case I lose sight of proper adab...

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

The case is going to continue .... beyond year 2010
On November 21st, 2010 Sadrudin (not verified) says:

YAM.
Inshallah, the court will not issue summary judgement instead court will order the trial.The reason for this is simple, the plaintiff's attorney has not show what harm he can incur nor he has requested any kind of the stay order. The review of the current discovery is not sufficient to deduce one way or another. As soon as, that occur, the plaintiff will end up negotiating the consent judgement in good faith.

So be patience. Imam is the truth and truth follows him so it bound to happen consent judgement.

* United States

Open Letter to Shafique Sachedina - RE: Bow Out
On November 20th, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhya (not verified) says:

Dear Dr. Shafique Sachedina,

Our dearest Imam, Khudavind Hazar Imam, has infinite patience and perseverance (sabar).
But we murids who love Him with all our hearts and souls, cannot, for even a moment, accept the manner in which you behave in the presence in Khudavind.

I have had the opportunity to see with my own eyes how you try to manipulate and order the Imam around. In the Golden Jubilee darbar of Chicago, Imam wanted to spend more time with the murids who were ill and bedridden, placed near the entrance of the darbar. You literally nudged the Imam to proceed out of the darbar and I felt that this was indeed very inappropriate behaviour on your part. It does not matter how much freedom the Imam has given you but in His presence you MUST behave with decorum.

Similarly, at the hotel in Lisbon, once again, I saw you try your best to physically manoeuvre the Imam to go upstairs to the banquet via the route chosen by yourself whereas it was obvious to all the Imam wished to proceed upstairs via a different route i.e. through the coffee shop. On Imam's return from the banquet, you again tried to make Him avoid going through the coffee shop (where a few members of the jamat were present) but this time you did not succeed and the Imam came straight through the coffee shop, greeting and waving at the jamat.

Why do you act like this? Do you think you are superior to the Imam? Do you think the Imam does not know what He is doing? Truly, this is an outrageous abuse of the opportunity you have been granted to serve the Imam.

And now, in this case versus Nagib and Alnaz, it has become very clear indeed that you have very little regard, respect and reverence for our Imam. Statements such as "He thinks in French but speaks in English" are insulting to the extreme!! It is obvious that you treat the Imam as a human being, a senile human being. Even so, He is your boss and how can you behave like this in His presence?! I do not doubt Nagib's and Alnaz's testimonies at all because of my above-stated experiences.

We CANNOT have and accept leaders like yourself who treat our beloved Imam, the master of our souls, our whole and soul, so shabbily. In fact, the next time I see you I will confront you. But I wish for there to be no next time. I demand your resignation, if you have any ounce of shame left you should immediately bow out. I urge all my brothers and sisters who love the Imam to support me and to stand up for our Imam and with one voice and ask for this belligerent man to resign!!

Yours indignantly,
Zeenat Allahrakhya

@Zeenataara Allahrakhya (Nov. 20th) (letter to Sachedina)
On November 22nd, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
You are very brave, sister Zeenatara, to thus write to the leader. May Mowla protect you from any retaliation. Ameen.

Yes, indeed, all those who understand who the Imam truly is (and I think this lawsuit has shown us that there only a few members of the Jamat who do understand His true nature) find the behaviour of most leaders totally unbearable and unacceptable. And it is because these leaders don't understand Him that they behave in this way... It is so frustrating and so distressing. I have felt very helpless.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Zeenat Allahrakhya
On November 22nd, 2010 Nick (not verified) says:

Zeenat Bahen, YAM
Imam the Master of our souls knows everything, But sometime people like SS reaps the benefit of their Past karmas and the service by their forefathers to the House of Imams, But Jab Aham aur Guroor ka Maati Ka Haanda(Ghada) Bhar Jaayenga tub Inshal'allh woh khud hi toot jayenga phir patta bhi nahin chalenga ki kaun they aise Leaders jo Imam ko Murido sein dur rakhate they, Bijli Ghirengi Jaroor per kab!!! woh Humara Pyaara Mowla hi jaanta hai behtar.

* Canada

@ Bloglaw
On November 20th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ya Aly madad, Bloglaw! In case you have missed that post, Moez Natho has posted a letter in French (followed by the Google English translation kindly provided by one of the readers whose name I can't recall) and in its conclusion he is asking you to send it to all the leaders. (Nov. 19 or 20 th I think).
I hope I am making sense, it is getting late...:-)
Ya Aly madad, Bloglaw. Do take care.

* Canada

“Netiquette.”
On November 20th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, LIBRARIAN-UMED! I am always on my guard on etiquette and I do my level best to go with the tides of civility but in communication sometime it becomes very imperative to use the capital letters. Therefore, when I am using the capital letters I am not yelling at anyone nor I am against the propriety of “Netiquette.” Consequently, good manners will always be the vanguard in my communication! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

The one root cause !
On November 20th, 2010 @Pirani (not verified) says:

Mr Shivjee what do you think is The one Root cause of the lawsuit and issues which Maybe a tip of the iceberg? I think it is because the constitution was not followed. And the solution is to ensure that the constitution is followed. The critical question – Has there been a real change in the top 20 leadership (the decision makers)in the last 20 years ?

* United Arab Emirates

"Let us move forward"
On November 22nd, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. PIRANI! Whatever has happened in past is now times gone by issues and one cannot foretell the future! Whatever the unfairness or impediment one has experienced should not become the sacrament in our daily life. I am not an academic but I will say this to close this disagreement that things do not just happen! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

What to expect of our Leaders?
On November 19th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

If they have galls to act in defiance of the Imam in His face, why would they act in a dignified manner behind the Imam's back? Why, indeed? I was introduced to the Ithmadi of Uk in Scarborough JK last weekend, someone who knew me and him brought him to me and introduced us. That hard working Ithmadi was not interested at all when I told him how the other leaders misbehaved in the Imam's presence, and was not interested in knowing at all what happened at the mulakat with the Imam, and simply walked away saying, sabar karo......

When the remaining leaders are not interested in the background noise and not concerned at all of what and how the "bad apples" spoil the basket, and continue blindly their hard work to serve the jamats, does their hard work save the jamats? or themselves? History is telling ..... WHOLE segments of the jamats were discarded by the Imams (and this has happened over and over). When I read historical events, I often used to wonder why whole segment(s) discarded?

History is repeating itself. Mawlana Ali, when fighting the battle at Siffin, had his own army refuse to follow his command in His face.... In due course, His great great grand child simply discarded the whole segment of the jamat, sent them to be murids of Muza Kazim, who progeny ultimately became childless after a few generations leaving these murids without a murshid. MHI said (I have given the citation in my defence), that they (who don't abide by my farmans) may remain part of the muslim ummah, but lose the right to be part of the jamath. Telling comments by a living Imam.

* Canada

@Alnaz re: above post of Nov. 19th
On November 23rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Dear Alnaz,
Please accept my heartfelt apologies for my reply of Nov. 20th to your above post of Nov. 19th: after I read the post of Zeenatara Allahrakhya of Nov. 22nd, in which she was explaining that her letter to M. Sachedina came from her love for Mowla, I understood that the words (Sabar karo) of that Itmadi from U.K. and his seeming lack of interest when you were trying to tell him about the poor behaviour of the leaders hurt you because of that same love. Please forgive me, I should have kept quiet instead of responding to your post. I hope you can forgive me.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Kanize's apologies
On November 24th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Dear Kanize:

I was not hurt at all by your comments and you do not need to apologize at all. I welcome comments either correcting my errors or providing a different view of the situation. It is far better to be corrected if needed or to be directed to a different view, which enables us to continue to grow and mature.

* Canada

@Alnaz re: above post of Nov. 19th
On November 20th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
If I may, I would like to point out two things. No offense meant!
The first one is that I don't think any Imam needs to "discard" or has "discarded" any segments of the jamat: it is the members of the Jamat themselves who sever the bond with the Imam and they themselves leave the right path, and the cause of their going astray is probably weakness in dasond.

The second one is that, through previous posts on this page the readers have been made aware of the way the leaders behaved with Mowla Bapa on the 15th of Oct., and that information was most useful. Now that that information has been shared, perhaps we ought to remember Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah's farman, "Tamè kharaab nè kharaab na kyo." And He said something to the effect of, "tamè koyno kanoon na karo, Amaara upar mukidiyo." I do realize how hurt you have been (and many of us too since we all care), but perhaps now we should just try to act as this farman tells us to act. I am sure Mowla Bapa will help you and Nagib.

Please, if my words have hurt you, Alnaz, I sincerely ask you to forgive me. I do not wish to offend you or hurt you in any way.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

You could have misunderstood the gesture of this UK Ithmadi?
On November 20th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. ALNAZ! Could it be possible that you could have misunderstood the gesture of this UK Ithmadi? You have to appreciate that those people who have resided in UK most of their lives have a tendency to be rehabilitated into a snobbish kind of reservation! Hazar Imam is all knowing and He understands that some of appointed leaders are deficient in gesticulation. However He said in one of His Farman in India that nobody is perfect with exception of Allah! Any Seva performed with selflessness, diligence, without any remuneration, and reward is the best way to get personal satisfaction! Any religion which is practiced with good intention is the ultimate way of salvation! If I was in your place I would not worry about these snooty! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

The reason why a Leader did
On November 19th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

The reason why a Leader did not talk to you in a JK or Jamati setting is a combination of uncertainty and fear of any impact on him or his family. This is understandable in the present institutional realities and mindset. change takes time and this is unprecedented. We must not blame but try to understand Each other, and work harder and make more effort for the benefit of the Jamat and for our Imam. What is most important is that leaders are aware and informed in every way possible. What Itmadi or leaders should have done is to listen, understand, and then pass the information in this case with his thoughts direct to MM and DR SS, who should welcome this input and thank him.

* United Arab Emirates

Leader's actions!
On November 20th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

They don't even bother to listen because they accept the likes of SS and MM as Mungu Ndogo (little god), and the likes of us as shaitaans.

Most people don't read history but the SS during the time of our beloved prophet was Abu Bakr who was a rich tycoon and served the prophet and islam a lot, spend a lot of time beside the prophet. However, despite his seva he was kept out of the sat panth.

Bring mukhi, SS, MM, etc does not mean he is she is accepted into sat panth, MSMS often spoke about TRUE Ismailis (eg. Chandraat Farman is for 'all true Ismailis), MHI always directs his farmans to his 'beloved' spiritual children.

The question each of us has to ask, am I beloved to him? There are farmans and ginans that tell us what are the criterias for becoming 'beloved'.

* Canada

Not to judge but... it is good to do some reality check
On November 19th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I have seen quite a few leaders some mukhis , some presidents, suffering from illnesses that make them mohtaz for years together in a pitiable condition , I shiver with the thought why? The bonds of Karma (deeds) are not easy to understand.

The very same people who were moving in society like no one else is as" blessed" as them ,suffering and sent to the bottom of human existence and dignity makes you shudder with fear is that worth going for all that name and fame and not recognising the "essence" all that worth?

Some how Ibadat Bandagi is not given enough importance any more by us and under the umbrella of perceived"seva" or "Khidmat" the bliss and blessing of Imamat is not experienced and understood even by the persons working so close to Mawla.

Plenty of "volunteer recognition functions" and puffing up the egos of all who wear uniforms or sit on pats and councils and do seva without even understanding or reflecting whether some of us indeed are doing "service" or "disservice" to jamat and our Mawla ? This reflection must be an important requirement of the "seva"

How many jamati members who may be the "real momins of Mawla" my be silently suffering because of the injustice done by senior leaders of the jamat who forget the batuni presence of Mawla? They keep treading the same path as their predecessors making the system more and more unjust.

As it is Mawla does not make it easy to understand his "avtar" and achieve "His true recognition" ,but when the Ibadat and true essence of our very tenent faith are forgotten or not given due importance even by the very Institutions who are suppose to teach and role-model I am not sure if we will be worthy of Mawla's continuing mercy , overlooking our misdoings and mis appropriation? And for how long?

"He cannot be achieved by anything else except his "Ibadat"

Seva x ibadat =benifit or sawab
if there is no ibadat however much seva is put in
the equation will be
100 seva x 0 ibadat = 0
This is the fundamental teaching of Ismailism.

One Tarika board chairperson holding the post for eternity was and is barely even seen in jamatkhana. Is it a blessing or curse? Was Ibadat completely ignored? I dont know. When will we strive to achieve the true understanding of""Imam and Imamat"? One of the proposed important GJ initiative did it even got initiated?

Just because He lives amongst us , eats with us, wears clothes like us and drives car like us does not mean He is same like us and we behave with him like an ordinary man! Mawla is the truth. And the truth is Mawla. But His true understanding can only be achieved when we infuse our lives with his Ibadat and rememberance and Zikar
There is no other way. When the truth will be in front of our eyes there will be no time to correct our mistakes!
(As per ginans and farmans)

* United States

@Alibhai Jiwani re: above post of Nov. 19th
On November 20th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
One of the problems is the lack of proper religious education (i.e. that really teaches the concept of Imamat) because the parents fail to instill in their children from their very earliest age love for the Mowla and the understanding of who He really is, either because they themselves don't have that love and that knowledge or because they count on the Bait ul-ilm to do this teaching, but the Bait ul-ilm doesn't seem to touch on the subject...And anyways, no BUI can ever replace parents where the upbringing in the faith is concerned...If the members of the Jamat were better educated in and aware of the faith, things would not be so bad, and I am sure this lawsuit would never have gone so far as the jamat would have put pressure on their leaders to stop it...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Imam reminds us regularly of
On November 20th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Imam reminds us regularly of having the right balance Between din and dunya. Ibadat means acts worship or the performance of religious duties and obligations. seva is for us an integral part of our religious duties and our bayat. In Islam religion is a way of life including the spiritual and the material. Both are necessary and too much of any of the two is not good for us. What we all need to do individually is to have the right balance. Today we all need to do everything we can to reverse the growing gaps in the jamat between excessive material greed - Dunya, and our spiritual -Din- ethics and values which needs to drove and guide us in out daily lives

* United Arab Emirates

Argument left for Summery Judgement argument.
On November 19th, 2010 Dilawar H Momin (not verified) says:

“Both Mr. Jiwa and Mr. Tajdin have formally confirmed, on the record, that they will not argue at the summary judgment motion that His Highness Prince Karim Aga Khan is not authorizing this action.”

* United States

This mean they will not
On November 19th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

This mean they will not argue to save time, it does not mean they are saying that Hazar Imam is plaintiff. Of course he is not. Unless you think that knowing that Alnaz has not published any Farmans he has accused the wrong person [Tauba!]

Faith Based Principle
On November 19th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

One of my acquaintances asked me why Nagib and Al Naz were not flexible enough to sign the consent agreement when they had disagreement over only one clause of infringement of copy rights.
I responded: “Al Naz has nothing to do with this case, as HI Himself made it clear when Nagib told Him about non involvement of Al Naz. As far as Nagib is concerned, he had presented a Mehmani to HI through Alibhai, and He blessed his work and permitted him to continue with the work of printing Farmans. So till printing of this Golden edition, Nagib has acted according to guidance given to him in Mehamani. This too HI admitted during discovery meeting. So till printing of this Golden edition book, Nagib acted according to guidance given to him in Mehmani. In simple words, if he agrees to infringement condition, he breaches the sanctity of Mehamani and Nafarmani to which he will be the last person to do it.” To this he interrupted,” what if they lose the case?” I replied, they were faithful to their Lord and under His protection; the end result does not bother them much. How can anyone compromise on faith based principle?

“Whoever acts according to my guidance to please me and totally surrenders to me, O Arjun, I take him under my protection and save him from evil forces and calamities.“ (Gita)

Re: Kasamali's post (Faith Based Principle)
On November 20th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, how could they sign such a document when Hazer Imam Himself said on the 15 of Oct. that all those who had a copy of the book could keep it??? Obviously, there is no infringement in His eyes. Ah, but the leaders and their lawyer can think otherwise...If only Mr. Sachedina had cooperated in the publishing of it, and if only Mr. Bhaloo had forwarded the farman to him in 1998 as he had been asked to rather than keeping them with him until now, as he himself admitted at the cross-examination!
"Wa man aufaa bimaa aahada alaihullahu fasayutihi ajran azeemaa." Insh'Allah, it will be so with Nagib. We just need to continue to pray for mushkil aassaan and subudhi.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@ Kasamali re: above post (Nov. 19)
On November 20th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for this post, brother Kasamali: those who do not have the time to read all the official documents and motions can understand much from your clear and succinct summary...Indeed, "Jènè Raam raakhè, tènè koy na chakhè."
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Kasamali ref : Gita
On November 20th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

How very comforting to the true believers . Your quote from Gita. If you read Bhagvat Gita it feels you are reading Shah Karim's farmans . You just have to be able to context it and conceptualise it to present times.

* United States

Our Frontline Leaders
On November 19th, 2010 An ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

The discovery meeting clearly showed us as to how our leaders behave with HI. The two frontline leaders SS and MM instead of helping maintain amicable environment in the meeting, they vitiated it.
HI clearly expressed His wishes as how to proceed for the solution, but these two leaders of our, instead of saying ‘ Amen’, not only tried to give their unsolicited advices/suggestions to HI but also even argued with Him.
Didn’t He clearly indicated as to How hw intends to tackle the case issue? Even He turned down their unsolicited interfered advices. These leaders, along with Gray, want to inflict maximum damage to the defendants. The reason: egoism and vengeance over powered their wisdom.

Leaders must act with absolute integrity, diligence and devotio
On November 18th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

The open letter to Dr SS & MM has been sent to them, and to other leaders. In accordance with their oath of office, all leaders have promised to act with “absolute” integrity, diligence, honesty and devotion. Therefore leaders have committed to raise and proactively discuss amongst themselves the issues and solutions. Then If necessary, to jointly or individually seek guidance from MHI.
In some of the Constitutions distributed nationally is printed the oath of office which Leaders have pledged and signed ;
Bismi-Llahi-R-Rahmani-R-Rahim - I............................do hereby solemnly and sincerely reiterate my absolute faith in, and Spiritual allegiance and devotion to Mawlana Hazar Imam, Shah Karim Al Hussaini, His Highness, Prince Aga Khan.
Further, I make solemn oath in the name of Allah and say
1. That I shall protect and defend the Ismaili constitution and the rules and regulations made thereunder;
2. that I shall perform with absolute honesty , integrity, devotion and diligence and to the best of my ability, all the duties and obligations entrusted to be; and
3. that I shall not disclose any confidential matters or proceedings pertaining to my office.
Dated and signed

In light of the above promise and oath, I sincerely hope and pray leaders will do their very best to d what is right and what is in the best interests of the Jamat as directed by Mawlana Hazar Imam. Ameen.

* Germany

@ Bloglaw re: above post of November 18th
On November 20th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you so much for posting this oath of office, Bloglaw. To think that the leaders can forget so much of what they pledged...It is so sad, ya Mowla, so sad...They should be regularly reminded by their friends and family members to review this oath...
Man, am I ever glad I am not a leader! I would not want to be corrupted by a position that yields power... I feel sorry for them.
Ya Aly madad.

PS I trust you will inform us of the reply to your letter, if a reply there is, Bloglaw.

* Canada

Leaders responsability
On November 19th, 2010 mohez nato (not verified) says:

Appel aux Responsables Institutionnels et Leaders du LIF

Cet appel n’a pas un caractère ou une critique vindicative ! Cette missive se fonde sur le principe de fraternité, sur le pardon et une prise de conscience que nous sommes tous des frères et sœurs et nous sommes les enfants spirituels de Mowlana Hazar Imam !

C’est aussi le cri de cœur d’un simple ismaili, âgé de 65 ans, riche d’une vie intellectuelle bien remplie et fier de vivre sa Foi selon l’Ethique et les Farmans de son Guide Spirituel, l’ Imam du Temps Présent!

Ce qui m’amène à vous écrire, c’est une forme de tristesse, cette douleur qui est trop lourde à vivre, liée à cette poursuite et ce conflit provoqués par ce « lawsuit », indigne de notre idéal communautaire !
Il est urgent que vous arrêtiez ce conflit, cette violence, cette « hémorragie morale », qui nous décourage tous, une forme de souffrance insupportable !

Malgré l’intervention, les directives très claires, très « inspirées », en date du 15 Octobre de notre Vénéré Hazar Imam, ce conflit judiciaire prend encore des proportions indignes via les médias et l’internet !
C’est inadmissible, c’est incompréhensible ! C’est inacceptable ! Votre silence est étourdissant !

Mes frères et sœurs, leaders et top leaders, membres des Institutions mises en place par Mowlana Hazar Imam, prenez vos responsabilités ! Vous devez réaliser que cette souffrance est présente en chacun de nous , il vous faut la comprendre, l'accepter ainsi, la regarder en face et utiliser votre position de leader pour se dépasser et agir dans une dynamique qui soit le changement que nous voulons voir dans le Jamat pluraliste , diversifié, méritocratique.
Et que les « verrous », les « tracasseries bureaucratiques », « l’esprit de clans » cessent pour un bon fonctionnement de nos Institutions !

Avec vos appuis, vos conseils, vos échanges avec les uns et les autres, en cherchant à vous appuyer sur des expériences qui marchent dans certains jamats, à s’inspirer de cette forme de dynamique « Leaders- MukhiSahebs-Jamat-Volontaires », qui doit réunir, rechercher la complémentarité, l'unité, et qui doit dépasser toute stigmatisation et les jugements avec des « a priori ».

Vous devez être les acteurs « inspirés », bien perçus par tous les segments du Jamat, avec un esprit rassembleur et voulant jouer collectif, capables d’oublier votre ego et sachant dépasser les clivages et surtout soucieux de partager et d’honorer les Directives et les Hidayaths de Mowlana Hazar Imam ! Depuis les différents Darbars du Golden Jubilee, cette feuille de route est claire, bien tracée !

Nous sommes tous responsables car nous sommes tous interpellés par ces Directives de Mowla Bapa ! Alors, ne perdons pas notre temps pour des conflits inutiles, étalés sur la place publique judiciaire ! Travaillons ensemble, vous devez insuffler cette dynamique ! Mowla Bapa n’a-t-il pas dit qu’Il est très ambitieux pour nous ! Il est urgent d’en prendre conscience, nous accepter les uns et les autres, d'utiliser toutes les compétences pour tenter de nous élever à un niveau de conscience supérieur ! Cette acceptation de notre diversité et du pluralisme au sein du Jamat est la clé du succès !
C’est par le dépassement humble de votre condition de Leaders, ouverts, inspirés, loyaux , généreux et charismatique que nous arriverons à résoudre les problèmes avec nos jeunes générations, préserver la dignité des seniors, s’attaquer aux problèmes de la grande pauvreté dans notre Jamat !

Il n y a rien de dramatique non plus dans la reconnaissance de nos propres faiblesses et conflits intérieurs ! Il n’y a que « Allah qui est parfait » !
Avec la Grâce de Mowla Bapa, Sa Miséricorde, Son Exemple, le vent de l'espoir du changement doit être là ! S’il vous plaît, prenez vos Responsabilités et toutes nos prières, notre pardon et notre considération vous sont acquis !

Ayons tous l'humilité de reconnaitre notre propre responsabilité dans chaque problème ou conflit. Mais admettez que ce « lawsuit » est inutile, il faut vite clore cet affreux chapitre ! C’est un échec pour nous tous et comme il faut toujours tirer une leçon d’une déconvenue, c’est peut être le début d’une prise de conscience de votre propre responsabilité et la condition d'un vrai changement de vision et de comportement que Mowla Bapa attend de nous tous !

Ne plus juger mais agir, ne pas condamner l'autre mais reconnaitre et accepter d'abord ses propres limites. Chercher systématiquement la complémentarité et encourager le changement harmonieux pour la réussite des objectifs et la Vision de Mowla Bapa pour Ses Disciples et les partager avec les autres membres de la société où nous vivons !

Il nous faut bannir de nos pensées la suspicion, et accorder plus de liberté et donner plus de chance au changement collectif. C'est se faire confiance collectivement, croire vraiment au changement et l'encourager chez soi et chez les autres ! Mowlana Hazar Imam n’a-t-il pas dit qu’Il est toujours avec nous !

En donnant votre point de vue, en vous engageant selon votre âme et conscience dans ce débat et définitivement clore ce »lawsuit », sachez que vous allez rehausser votre statut de « leaders » et que vous allez démontrer un réel changement dans votre comportement, sans doute le fruit d’une profonde réflexion, d’une quête pourquoi pas intellectuelle et spirituelle qui aboutit à cette forme de maturité ou mutation intérieure et individuelle.

Avec toute ma considération, mon estime et mes respects très fraternels et mes sincères Ya ali Madat !
Que Mowla nous garde tous sur la voie droite du Sirata-Mustaquim !

Mohez nato
Ps j’autorise Les Internautes de traduire en anglais et à Bloglaw de transmettre aux Leaders ma missive. Merci d’avance.

* France

@Mohez Nato (re: above letter of Nov. 19)
On December 1st, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Le LIF a sans doute déjà reçu votre lettre (le courrier arrive plus vite au Royaume-Uni qu'en Europe) et le Conseil de France est sur le point de la recevoir, Insh'Allah. Reste à savoir maintenant si les dirigeants prendront la peine de la lire !
Mais au moins, nous, nous aurons rempli notre devoir ! Shukhar Mowla !
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Mohez Nato (re: above letter of Nov. 19)
On November 23rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Félicitations ! Je suis bien contente que vous ayez pris votre courage à deux mains et que vous ayez rédigé cette lettre aux dirigeants ! Après vous, quelqu'un d'autre aussi a fait de même sur cette page! Ça va faire boule de neige, Insh'Allah ! Qui sait, d'autres ont sans doute écrit ce qu'ils pensaient sans l'afficher ici ! Plus les membres du Jamat vont s'impliquer et s'exprimer franchement avec leurs dirigeants, plus ça va faire bouger les choses ! C'est notre laxisme qui leur permet de dépasser les bornes.
Merci ! Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

French comment By Nato( English translation by google)
On November 19th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

French to English translation
Leaders responsability
On November 19th, 2010 mohez nato (not verified) says:
Call for Institutional Managers and Leaders of LIF

This call was not a vindictive nature or criticism! This letter is based on the principle of brotherhood, forgiveness and the realization that we are all brothers and sisters and we are the spiritual children of Mowlana Hazar Imam!

It is also the cry of the heart of a simple Ismaili, aged 65, with a rich intellectual life busy and proud to live according to His Faith and Ethics Farmans his Spiritual Guide, the Imam of Time Present!

Which brings me to write is a form of sadness, pain that is too heavy to live, connected with this lawsuit and the conflict caused by this "lawsuit" and unworthy of our great community!
It is imperative that you stop this war, this violence, this "moral hemorrhage, which discourages us all, a form of suffering unbearable!

Despite the intervention, the guidelines very clear, very "inspired", dated October 15 of our venerable Hazar Imam, the legal conflict is still unworthy of proportion through the media and the internet!
This is unacceptable, it is incomprehensible! This is unacceptable! Your silence is deafening!

My brothers and sisters, leaders and top leaders, members of the institutions set up by Mowlana Hazar Imam, take responsibility! You must realize that this pain is present in all of us, you must understand, accept and, face it and use your leadership position to excel and act in a dynamic that is the change we want to see Jamat in the pluralistic, diverse, meritocratic.
And that "locks", the "red tape", the "spirit of clans to cease proper functioning of our institutions!

With your support, your guidance, your interactions with each other, trying to lean on the experiences that work in some Jamaat, to emulate this form of dynamic "Leaders-Jamat-MukhiSahebs-Volunteers", which must unite, seek complementarity, unity, and which must exceed any stigma and judgments with "a priori".

You must be players "inspired" well received by all segments of the Jamaat, with a unifying spirit and willing team player, able to forget your ego and knowing beyond the divisions and especially anxious to share and honor the Guidelines and the Mowlana Hazar Imam of Hidayaths! Since the various Golden Jubilee Darbar, the roadmap is clear, well drawn!

We are all responsible because we are all concerned with these Guidelines Mowla Bapa! So do not waste our time in unnecessary conflicts, spread in the public court! Working together, you must instill this dynamic! Mowla Bapa did not he say he is very ambitious for us! It is urgent to realize, we accept each other, using all the skills to try to elevate ourselves to a higher level of consciousness! This acceptance of our diversity and pluralism within the Jamat is the key to success!
It is overrun by the lowly status of your leaders, open, inspired, loyal, generous and charismatic that we will resolve issues with our younger generations, preserve the dignity of older people, tackling the problems of extreme poverty in our Jamat!

There s nothing more dramatic in the non-recognition of our own weaknesses and inner conflicts! There is that "Allah is great!
With the Grace of Mowla Bapa, His Mercy, His example, the wind of hope for change must be there! Please take your responsibilities and all our prayers, our forgiveness and our consideration are all yours!

All have the humility to recognize our own responsibility for every problem or conflict. But admit that this "lawsuit" is useless, it must quickly end this terrible chapter! It is a failure for us all and as you always learn from a setback, it may be the beginning of an awareness of your own responsibility and the condition of a true change of vision and Mowla Bapa behavior expected of us all!

Do not judge but to act, not to condemn another but first acknowledge and accept his own limitations. Systematically seek complementarity and encourage change for the harmonious achievement of objectives and vision for His Disciples Mowla Bapa and share with other members of the society we live in!

We must banish from our minds the suspicion, and give more freedom and give more chance to collective change. It is to trust collectively believe really change and encourage in self and others! Mowlana Hazar Imam has he not said that He is always with us!

By giving your point of view, engaging you according to your conscience in this debate and finally close this "lawsuit", know that you will enhance your status as "leaders" and that you will demonstrate a real change in your behavior without probably the result of profound thought, why not a quest leading intellectual and spiritual maturity in this form or transfer internal and individual.

With all my respect, my esteem and my respect very fraternal and sincere Ya ali Madat!
Mowla that keeps us all on the road right-of Sirata Mustaquim!

Mohez nato
Ps I allow Internet users to translate English and Bloglaw to forward my letter to the Leaders. Thank you in advance.

reply
France

* United States

I doubt if any leader will respond or act proactively
On November 18th, 2010 Alibhai jiwani (not verified) says:

I seriously doubt if any leader will really perform. The oath signing for them is like signing one piece of paper which you sign number of times when you even sign a cell phone contract or any regular contract. But I hope I am surprised. Also must ask for the farman book which was promised by LIF in the lengthy harsh announcement a year ago. When is it going to be available?

* United States

So what went wrong (& why) ?
On November 16th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

So what went wrong (& why) in not using arbitration in this lawsuit ? What will be the impact on the work and role of NCAB? - A summary from an arbitration and conciliation article by M Keshavjee in 2005. Was M Keshavjee or NCAB consulted ?
Mohamed M. Keshavjee is a Barrister-at-Law from Gray’s Inn, London and an Advocate of the High Court of Kenya. He is a Governor of IIS and has been Global head – coordinator of ITREB for over 15 years. Since 2000, he has also been responsible for conceptualising and implementing all training programmes for the National Conciliation and Arbitration Boards of the Ismaili Muslim Community internationally. He was also a part of th team who drafted our global and regional constitution and the rules.

1 The Global Ismaili Constitution is founded on each Ismaili's spiritual allegiance to the Imam of the time, which is separate from the secular allegiance which Ismailis owe as individual citizens to their respective national entities.
2 While the Constitution serves primarily the social governance needs of the Ismaili community, its provisions for encouraging amicable resolution of disputes through impartial conciliation, mediation and arbitration, are being increasingly used, in some countries, by non-Ismailis.
3 Conciliation and Arbitrations Boards of the Ismaili Community operate exist in Afghanistan, Canada, France, India, Iran, Kenya, Madagascar, Pakistan, Portugal, Syria, Tanzania, Uganda, the United Kingdom and the USA. (since 2005 other countries may have been included)
4 The Board is made entirely on a voluntary basis and the Boards are made up of trusted individuals, mainly volunteers, from various fields of endeavour from within the Ismaili Community.
5 The Boards also act as an arbitration and judicial body and accordingly hear and adjudicate upon commercial, business and other civil liability matters and domestic and family matters.
6 The informing ethos of all these boards are the principles of negotiated settlement (sulh) and forgiveness embodied in the Holy Qur'an, the Sunnah (tradition) of the Prophet (P.B.U.H.) the guidance of the earlier Imams and the teaching and guidance of the present, 49th Imam. The Boards always operate within the laws of the various countries in which they function.
7 In keeping with the guidance of the present Imam, an international training programme was launched in England in 2000 with a view to upgrading the skills and proficiencies of the Conciliation and Arbitration system of the Shi'a Imami Ismaili Muslims. An important aspect of the training programmes is to ensure a balance between the lived wisdom of the various communities, the basic ethical framework of Islam which emphasizes care, compassion and consideration and the principles of contemporary ADR practice. …The programmes are conceptualized to ensure a balance between a "top down", inductive approach and a "bottom up", deductive one (JP Lederach).
8 The training programmes, which started off in the United Kingdom in 2000, have undergone changes, as the roll outs move from one country to another. New dimensions, highlighting the concept of greater relationality, called for ongoing re-designing. "Community sculpt", as the authors refer to greater stakeholder participation, indicates that in various cultures, if one does not include critical stakeholders as part of the solution, they become part of the problem.
9 This paper shows how the judiciaries of other countries are beginning to recognise the NCABs as bona fide bodies and are referring matters back to them for resolution, within the framework of the ethical norms and principles set up for their effective operation.

* United Kingdom

The consent judgement Not done.
On November 16th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

The consent judgment not working out may be a blessing in disguise for the defendants. It would have guaranteed a “ off the hook” immunity status to the leaders by making defendants withdraw the allegations of fraud.

They are the ones who did not follow MHI’s wish to end the lawsuit by consent judgment and all other guidance given off the record. They rushed to proceed for summary judgment by running with only “on record sentences” of an irregularly conducted discovery and ignoring all the guidance given by Hazar Imam, defendants did not do it.

Leaders are not doing Farman bardari to the Hazar Imam. The discovery process and the subsequent non-actions and rushing for summary judgment make it obvious. Hazar Imam appeared to “Save his leaders and institutions” but seeing the non-grateful behaviors of leaders in question he might have rethought the result and planned a different outcome? (In Batin)(May be)! (He is the only one making all this Leela)

The consent judgment to work out was more in favor of the leaders than the defendants. They had more at stake and a greater responsibility towards jamat and Hazar Imam. They are the ones who should have really worked hard to get the allegations of fraud removed. Why would Hazar Imam simply not say there was no fraud? There was no need for him to urge to remove the allegations. (So the fraud did happen?)

And Nagib and Alnaz complied in their signed consent judgment drafts but it was Mr. Gray who wanted differently. The issue of infringement, once the defendants agree they will not publish anymore was not much of any significance.
In the last 50 yrs how many people have tried to print Firmans randomly? And in future once the article may be in place in constitution and official copyright certificate done if MHI wishes there is no Q of future problems of others doing it if that was a concern.

Not working on Imam’s directions might hurt them big time! But they have more faith in Mr. Gray than Hazar Imam? So that is why they are going by Gray’s recommendations and not by Hazar Imam’s who clearly indicated to work to gather and work by conciliation and he clearly acknowledged the defendants by offering to work together in future and meeting in future!

What will happen say the judge rules that the discovery process was not fair to the defendants? There is a 50 percent chance of each party to win the summary judgment there is a 50 percent chance court may rule there was forgery and case be dismissed, then what? Who loses? Of course the leadership. MHI tried but they failed to appreciate and submit.
I understand the other 50 percent chance of defendants losing which is same as agreeing to consent judgment prepared by Mr. Gray, which I believe, includes everything on statement of claims anyways. So who has more at stake?

Nagib and Alnaz are right in choosing to be at the mercy of divine Mawla and Canadian judge than Mr. Gray

* United States

confused
On November 17th, 2010 confused (not verified) says:

So exactly who is Gray representing then?
On the day of the discovery, the court ordered the Plantiff to appear, and it was MHI that appeared...
Who should have been on that seat instead? Who is the real plaintiff?

* Canada

Who appeared?
On November 18th, 2010 believer (not verified) says:

On the day of the discovery, the court ordered the Plaintiff to appear, and 3 people appeared:
MHI, SS & MM

From what we have heard so far,

Imam came with a loving, calm, conciliatory attitude, and his statements were not aligned with the pleadings or the testimonies from the cross-examinations..

Gray, SS, and MM seemed aligned together and were loud and unwavering

So the question remains, who is the real plaintiff?

Good insight...
On November 20th, 2010 not as confused (not verified) says:

I supposed that makes sense to some extent - you're right all three were there. But Interestingly the court swore in only MHI as the plaintiff and not SS/MM.
YAM

* Canada

After reviewing the Discovery transcripts
On November 16th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Today I read the transcript of the discovery (Oct 15, 2010) again and recognized that Mr. Gray has very cleverly and successfully got on record all that he wanted.

Alnaz and Nagib were spiritually overwhelmed and were unaware of the manipulative game of Mr. Gray in process who was fully functional as a “lawyer only” and got exactly what he needed.

Since Alnaz and Nagib do not have lawyers and previously Mr. Gray had motioned the first order of Judge Tabib for the plaintiff to attend the discovery in that light the judge might understand the defendant’s point of view versus how aggressive actions of Mr. Gray have been all along and may not easily grant summary judgment to the plaintiff in the upcoming sessions.

The weaker side is normally given a due consideration and fairness by the judge. Also Mr. Gray has repeatedly included Alnaz in his letters to the court regarding discovery but :

1.Alnaz was never supposed to be a part of the discovery. He was merely advised to be present.

2.He was not supposed to function as Nagib’s lawyer how could he order the reporter to remain on or off record? That will prove that Gray controlled the court reporter.

3. Incidentally there is nothing in the transcript that “confirms that was no forgery”

4 Nothing says that.” There was no verbal consent in the Mehmani”

5.Why were Mr. Manji and Dr Sachedina allowed to be present during discovery without defendant’s permission?

The above points might make the judge suspect that bullying and manipulations might have indeed happened in the discovery process.

In that case it will be very difficult for him to give summary judgment right away in favor of the plaintiff.

On the other side if the “on record contents” of the discovery are still accepted by the judge than the defendants “agreeing to withdrawing all allegations of forgery” will not help them to give a summary judgment in favor of defendants either.

From the above It looks to me (I am not a lawyer but from common sense) like there is no end to the case in very near future. Hazar Imam saying: “ We will meet again” to Alnaz and Tazdin might prevail sooner than expected. And he might choose to return to the court once again for his 2 true momins. He will not let injustice be done to his momins that is my faith-based statement. “He loves his true momins much more than they can ever love him.”

The first arrival was to “save leaders” but incidentally Gray’s own sabotaged the discovery process may be a blessing in disguise to the defendants and Hazar Imam might arrive second time for his “momins only.” And Mawla does not ever complain if he has to do anything extra for his “true momins” It is his pleasure always. Let others yell whatever they want. (My statement is our faith based)

To save his “true momins” and reestablish religious principle whenever they are abnegated by evil forces is the sole purpose of his “ Avtar’. He is the 10 th Naklanki Avtar of the Lord (as per Ginans and validation in Bombay High courts ref Haji bibi case) He is no regular man.

He has no other significant goal in his life (Ref GJ Firman talika 2008) except the well being of his Jamat.

Alnaz and Nagib are his true momins. They have no malice or selfish interest. They are doing a noble task of spreading Lord’s words to his jamat. They maintained the dignity of Mawla’s physical presence in front of them and did not ask questions out of their spiritual belief, overriding the legal necessity. Shukhar! Hazar Imam is fully aware of everything . His affection felt by the defendants in his presence confirms it. His silence is always a blessing. His non-intervention signifies his ability to not only to look into future but also “to know the future”. Hence he is cool. His Noor is guiding the true momins always. From a purely legal perspective victory for Gray seems imminent but based on faith-based knowledge it seems remote Only Mawla knows the end. But he has given me intellect and faith so I am using it.

* United States

The defendants were not
On November 16th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The defendants were not sworn and this was not a discovery of the defendants by Gray. The Judge will be able to see through if there is any attempt in this direction.

http://www.advocates.ca/assets/files/pdf/education/Symposium-on-Professi...
6.03 (3) A lawyer shall avoid sharp practice and shall not take advantage of or act without fair warning upon slips, irregularities, or mistakes on the part of other licensees not going to the merits or involving the sacrifice of a client's rights.

6.03 (5) A lawyer shall not in the course of a professional practice send correspondence or otherwise communicate to a client, another licensee, or any other person in a manner that is abusive, offensive, or otherwise inconsistent with the proper tone of a professional communication from a lawyer.

Agreements Guaranteeing Recovery
19. In civil proceedings the lawyer has a duty not to mislead the court about the position of the client in the adversary process.

@ librarian-umed
On November 16th, 2010 Muhamad (not verified) says:

As summary judgment matter is on 7th December, any possibility of success by alnaz to solve this problem before trial through new motions against gray?

* Canada

New motions
On November 16th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

No I don't have any plans for any motion, and at the motions for summary judgement nothing of the discovery can be presented to the judge, and the record that is filed is the only issues that can be argued.

* Canada

Defendants were not sworn -
On November 16th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

Defendants were not sworn - so is any evidence given by them admissible for the summary judgement hearing? The examiner was Nagib, and so should all discovery questions have been addressed to MHI (by Gray and Nagib) and if so only MHI responses are admissible. Is that correct ? . In this discovery all questions on record were by Mr Gray to Nagib ?

* United Arab Emirates

@Umed
On November 16th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

In the light of the above guidelines for the lawyers , irregularities are obvious in the discovery process.
I think defendants are safe even from the legal point of view.

* United States

The defendants were not
On November 16th, 2010 zarina (not verified) says:

you can write all you want, but the truth is that the defendants DID NOT ASK the5 questions they had agreed to ask. maybe they froze when seeing the IMAM was the real plaintiff

Imam's love for Defendants was overwhelming
On November 16th, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

The Imam replied by Himself to many more questions in our mind, contradicting the Statement of Claim and various misrepresentations about Ginans, Farmans of previous Imams etc.. he confirmed that He gave us instructions to continue with the Farman project, as in that time of 1992, he was looking for competent people. He confirmed that He knew Alnaz was not publishing, that Farmans are not edited etc.. So unless you are implying that Imam was lying in the Statement of Claim or falsely accused Alnaz, there is no trace that he confirmed at any point that he was the real Plaintiff.

@ Nagib reg: Imam's love
On November 16th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Just carry that love of Mawla in your heart like a bright light and go on. Victory or defeat is in His hands but just be strong and keep on doing your Karma. My prayers are also with you You will be sucessful by Mawla's divine help Inshaallah!AAmeen.

* United States

"MY VERY BEST WISHES ON EID"
On November 15th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

WARMEST WISHES

EID MUBARAK!

WE WISH YOU AND YOUR
DEAR ONES A VERY HAPPY EID!

"MAY IT COME WITH LOVE, PEACE OF MIND, GOOD HEALTH, AND PROSPERITY INTO YOUR LIVES!"

Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

Prayers for Truth to Triumph
On November 14th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Only a week remains when tele-conference is going to take place. Also there isn’t much time left for hearing of the case on Dec’7th. So, it is right time that all the members of the Heritage group at least pray until then for the whole truth to prevail even the court order.

Normally and almost in all cases, the courts, throughout the world, consider only those evidences and documents which are apparent. However, just because of absence of evidences or supporting documents, courts hardly give enough weight to many hidden realities and truths. For example, in this case, unrecorded material/ discussion of 25 minutes, which is a major impacting factor helpful to revealing the whole truth, may not be given due importance by the court.
I am sure, besides burning mid night oils for due preparation to put forward their arguments in the court, both Nagib and Al Naz are also regular in BK Bandagi.
We all need to pray sincerely to the Lord, HI, for the hidden truth to triumph in the court as well

OPEN LETTER TO VAZIR SACHEDINA AND M MANJI
On November 14th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

To Vazir Dr Shafik Sachedina & Mr M Manji. re : lawsuit filed against Nagib Tajdin and Alnaz Jiwa,
With the greatest of humility & respect, I am requesting you to provide the current status to all the leaders below. Particularly the following;

1 Directions given by Hazar Imam in the meeting on 15 October 2010, and how those directions differ from those confirmed by Alnaz Jiwa & Nagib Tajdin
2 What are the precise reasons why the consent order signed by Alnaz and Nagib is not acceptable or not in accordance with directions given by Hazar Imam. If the only difference is admission of infringement then please clarify why is that a critical legal need for the purposes of a consent order.
3 Why have there been no meetings between any leaders and Alnaz/Nagib since 15th October 2010 and what efforts were made, if any. (I appreciate there has been legal, (mostly confrontational) communication between the lawyers and Alnaz Jiwa/Nagib Tajdin.
I refer to the following Farmans of Hazar Imam in (and since) 1964 (from the Ismailia Association publications). The relevant excerpts are;

“…This evening when I leave you I will have left specific advice and guidance with my Jamat Leaders. I have appointed them to help you in your worldly and spiritual matters. I would like you to remember that whatever differences of opinion you may have between you and between one institution and another you are at all times brothers and sisters and it gives me deep physical pain when … you are not working together nor do I wish any difference be known outside my Jamat ….I do not wish to see any slight difference of opinion you may have to be broadcast outside the Jamat…”’ … “It has been in our Jamat for many hundreds of years the tradition that spiritual children who have a problem should be able to write to their Imam… It is a tradition I wish to keep ….” … I have appointed leaders for your good … Ïf there are matters that are worrying you about these leaders then write to your Imam… “ Just as problems in families and between individuals, in the Jamat should ALWAYS be solved by arbitration by discussion, by friendship ..”

Having regard to the meeting on 15 October 2010 and in view of the above, I feel compelled to write to you, and also because continuing this case is no longer necessary, or in the Jamat’s interest.

If Hazar Imam has given you any directions contrary to the above or regarding sharing with Leaders, then I request you to also share those directions with them

Copy to Chairman of LIF, Heads of IIS, Chairmen of ITREB, President Sahebans, and Chairman ICAB

* Germany

@Bloglaw
On November 18th, 2010 Nick Canada. (not verified) says:

I am proud of your Jawamardi and let me be very honest we hardly have real Mards like you in the Jamat who will stand up in front of our leaders as we all carry lots of fears in our hearts to stand up for any explanation on any Jamati or Tariqah matters from this leaders who are appointed by Hazar Imam to look after his Jamat. Thanks for the Farmaan which I have read for the first time. Brother, I urge you send a copy to our Hazar Imam no matter what happens, But please kindly do send him a copy.Thanks and May Mowla Bapa Bless you

* Canada

@ Bloglaw re: above post of November 14th
On November 15th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
You truly are a man of action, brother Bloglaw! Excellent letter! Mubaraki! Alnaz and Kanize had been suggesting we do resort to writing to our leaders. If more of us can do this, then Insh'Allah, the leaders will be able to force M. Sachedina to consent to judgment.
Ya Aly madad. And Eed mubaraki to you!

* Canada

@Bloglaw re: above post of Nov. 14th
On November 15th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Bravissimo, Bloglaw, bravissimo! Laakho laakho mubaraki for writing this letter, dear Bloglaw! And a million thank yous!!!
Mowla sukhi raakhè, Bloglaw! I am so glad you have taken this initiative! Laakho shukhar!
And what an enlightening farman too! I cannot thank you enough, Bloglaw.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

OPEN LETTER TO VAZIR SACHEDINA AND M MANJI
On November 15th, 2010 Rahman (not verified) says:

" Ïf there are matters that are worrying you about these leaders then write to your Imam....

I think you should consider sending copy of this letter to Hazar Imam,

* United States

@Rahman re: above post of Nov. 15
On November 15th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
You really think that if Bloglaw did send a copy to Hazer Imam, Mowla Bapa would get it ?????
I am rather skeptical...
Ya Aly mada, Rahman.

* Canada

Kanzie, YAM. We all know
On November 16th, 2010 Rahman (not verified) says:

Kanzie,

YAM. We all know that wall is very vary thick, but no harm in trying.

* United States

@Bloglaw
On November 15th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Bloglaw. What a "great action". Thank You

* Canada

@bloglaw : regarding open letter
On November 14th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Bravo! One more Jawamard!
Please send a mailed letter also to them
Because they are not going to reply on open letter because this is not " authorised" website according to them.
They are not suppose to be checking here.
Might be visiting only "Vancouverite"

* United States

Everyone here knows this is
On November 14th, 2010 Bhaghat (not verified) says:

Everyone here knows this is not an official web site. I think their official web site is Vancouverite ;-)

``THIS LITIGATION IS BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION``
On November 14th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. ABDUL! This litigation is blown out of proportion by some who have nothing better to do other than point their fingers! The Ismaili Muslims around the world have resourcefully stood steadfast to uphold the traditions of Ismailism. They do not wish to broadcast the difference of their opinion which they know sooner or later will resolved at the behest of Almighty Allah! There is not fear among the Ismaili Muslims, nor do they wish to come forward to broadcast their allegiance by being proponent! In Ismailism, we the Ismaili Muslims have been blessed with tolerance, broad-mindedness, open-mindedness, and non-judgemental attitude. Some of us may resort to criticism and judgement due to our higher academic capacity but the end result is rationality and logic which prevails! Hazar Imam wants free discussion with friendship so that the confronting problem is resolved by arbitration! The Ismaili Muslims have always shown the loyalty to their citizenship of their country of residency. In this day-and-age, there is no factor like fear or illiteracy. The Ismaili Muslims have always respected other religion and other people of the world! Our religion is very flexible which allow us to participate and contribute to have our say made public and in private gathering. Hazar Imam is never displeased if our conscience can figure out the right and the wrong! He wants us to become decisive and conscientious in our performance. Nobody can deprive anybody for one’s rightful place in the society! There will be difference of opinion, criticism, and judgement but it is not the end of the world! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

@ Shivji :We must not be so vain and self egoistic
On November 17th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

We Ismailis should not keep thinking we are great!
We have a lot to improve.
The minute pride sets in that you are performing great.... there you start with your downfall
There is a lot of jealousy and malice in the jamat.
Institutions are slowly losing the credibility because of their obvious partial behaviours.
The leaders somehow think they are "blessed" because they have positions.They are not at all open to recommendations or criticism and hence the accountability and quality of work is deteriorating.They only like to be praised even if not performing.

The case is not only about the copyright but it is also about the basic tenents of our faith, doctrines,also an institutional reality check and much more .
If any it is under realised rather than blown out of proportion
99.90 percent of the jamat know next to nothing about the case.
Just because a few bloggers keep posting repeatedly that does not mean it is blown out of proportion.

Is anything achieved by big big advises and lofty claims of being a great community?
Is any one really contributing towards a solution?
Are we following even 5 percent of farmans our Mawla is making?
He is the only one working hard for our spiritual and material upliftment .
Are we working really as His partners in improving the plight of the global jamat? No.
We only follow what we like and what suits us and claim we are great murids!
It is in fact high time everyone wakes up!!

* United States

"We have to become partners with our Imam"
On November 17th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Yam, Mr. Alibhai Jiwani (USA)

The Ismaili Muslims Institution has grown very fast. It has its recognized charter and officeholders who are defining the course of action and guiding principle of the Institution! Perceptibly, the mannerisms in which they conduct themselves actually denote their upbringing and wrong use of their corporate education. When they do not become conscious about other people, they are creating distinct liability by their misconduct and closed door policies! They become wrongdoer in their legal responsibility, accountability, responsibility, and menace to the Jamat!

The infringement, the court case, and its consequences have happened and will soon end! Gradually it is descending in past tense, and I am not worried about it now. I am neither opponent not I am proponent. I would like to see in my life time a united, happy, and prosperous Ismaili Muslims Community. I admit there will be a few who may not believe in our optimism and idealism but they will understand our optimism someday! We have to become partners with our Imam for betterment of our Jamat globally. Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

”WE ARE ONE JAMAT, ONE PEOPLE!”
On November 14th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MS YASMIN! I have just read the excerpts 1964 – Deedar (Ismaili Association). I will not quote the Farman but I would like to say this in my vindication! Yes, I am the same Nizar Ali K. Shivji! Whatever the differences we have in our interpretation, we are always, at all times, bothers and sisters. Therefore, I do now wish to pain Hazar Imam. No matter how the circumstance has divided us, we are still the spiritual children of Hazar Imam. I would like to solve my problems amicably, and I believe any problem has a solution! How you derive at a solution, the solution has to resolve like a problem in families and between individuals! We are one Jamat and our differences should be resolved by negotiation, by discussion, and by friendship! It is not easy but we can always try! I am a human being and I have my foible! So, Ms Yasmin be rest assured, it is like the beauty and beast! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

@Nizar Shivji
On November 14th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Mr Shivji. I am so glad to hear from you again. Thank you.

* Canada

@Yasmin regarding Mr Shivji
On November 14th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

really?

* United States

"SORRY, IT IS PLUS FOR ME!!!!"
On November 15th, 2010 NIZAR ALI K. SHIVJI (not verified) says:

YAM MR. ALIBHAI! IT IS A PLUS FOR ME!! WITH MY VERY BEST ON HAPPY EID. ALLAH HAFEZ, NIZAR ALI K. SHIVJI!

* Canada

Posting in Capital letter is
On November 16th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Posting in Capital letter is considered as Yelling on the internet and is against the "Netiquette"

@shivji
On November 16th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

No need to yell .

* United States

IMAM SAYS “..ALWAYS, BY ARBITRATION, BY DISCUSSION BY FRIENDSHI
On November 13th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

NEWS EDITOR VANCOUVERITE - Prior to this discovery, an offer of a meeting was made to the defendants. Ask Alnaz why that was turned down. And this was several months prior to the discovery. Alnaz will tell you the meeting with HH was turned down – not because they had doubts about who the plaintiff was – but because HH wanted them to consent to certain conditions prior to the meeting. ……So tell me, do you know of other Ismailis who would turn down a consensual meeting with HH because of a small sacrifice – particularly in view of the fact that your friends claim they would lay down their lives for him?

REPLY BLOGLAW NOVEMBER 13, Editor you are being at best economical with the facts to suit you. Therefore you are distorting the facts and misinforming (as a journalist). What you are referring to was a conditional offer from Mr Gray which I commented on as you did.

That offer in light of the meeting of 15 October 2010, was not from the Imam. See a part of my comment below. I will be happy to send a copy of my full analysis and comment of over 4 months ago on Mr Grays conditional offer;

This case could have been settled in May 2010 If Mr Gray and Dr SS/MM really wanted to settle. Do you agree? Also see Farman excerpt below. All leaders and murids need to read, understand and ask 1 Would Imam file a law suit against his murids in light of his Farmans. 2. Should not the leaders meet Alnaz and Nagib to agree and sign the consent order 3 Should we not move back these differences internally within the Jamat and any damage reversed. 4 Should Leaders and murids write to leaders and share their thoughts on this lawsuit?

Mr Gray conditional offer - “…..10…. Mr Gray then says MHI “indicated” (not confirmed) to Mr Gray that Tajdin and Jiwa should agree unconditionally to
a. Acknowledge MHI has copyright to his Farmans (this is not at issue if we exclude our belief that Farmans for Ismailis in their personal beliefs include divine revelations by the Imam and his authority in continuing the Tawil and Talim of the Quran and final message of Allah to mankind.)
b. Tajdin and Jiwa have infringed the copyright (Tajdin and Jiwa are saying that they are following specific farmans from the Imam and they are seeking direct guidance & instructions from their Imam which they have not received so far) .
c. Deliver up the remaining books (Which book ? Books? He is not specific)
11 Agree to an injunction from further copying or distributing Farmans (Books were distributed by Ismailies only to Ismailies. If they agreed to stop, Imam would certainly trust them as they sevadari’s farman bardari’s and because of their Bayat. Would Imam personally instruct Mr Gray to insist on this last pre-condition before he grants a 5-10 minute audience).
12 If Tajdin and Jiwa unconditionally & immediately agree then MHI has assured Mr Gray he will grant a personal audience so that; a. They can explain their actions b. They can ask for forgiveness c. They can make whatever representations they would like to make
(This above does not make any sense and is inconsistent coming from an eminent lawyer. He knows a meeting is requested for 5-10 to seek specific guidance, which he is fully aware of)

Farman Excerpts 1964 – Deedar (Ismailia Association) - “…This evening when I leave you I will have left specific advice and guidance with my Jamat Leaders. I have appointed them to help you in your worldly and spiritual matters. I would like you to remember that whatever differences of opinion you may have between you and between one institution and another you are at all times brothers and sisters and it gives me deep physical pain when … you are not working together nor do I wish any difference be known outside my Jamat ….I do not wish to see any slight difference of opinion you may have to be broadcast outside the Jamat…”’ … “It has been in our Jamat for many hundreds of years the traditions that spiritual children who have a problem should be able to write to their Imam… It is a tradition I wish to keep ….” … I have appointed leaders for your good … Ïf there are matters that are worrying you about these leaders then write to your Imam… “ Just as problem in families and between individuals , in the Jamat should ALWAYS be solved by arbitration by discussion, by friendship ..”

* United Kingdom

Quoting Firmans in a public forum
On November 14th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

Firmans are for Ismaili Murids only.
Quoting them even in an Ismaili run yet public forum is not appropriate.
Allahi Alim.

* Canada

farmans are visionary, relevant and make us proud
On November 14th, 2010 Monim (not verified) says:

@ Zak - I disagree because firstly these are farmans from publications which many Ismailies and non Ismailies have acces to. Secondly If these farmans excerpts are not quoted, many leaders will not believe the 2 murids. The quotations are relevant to this case and act as a reminder to us. Thirdly Leaders/LIF are not sharing or giving progres updates to the Jamat. Fourthy only selected farmans are available to read, listen and study in JK or ITREB. This is not as directed by Hazar Imam. For example If the Farmans quoted were available when Leaders are discussing this case amongst themselves would they not have been reminded and say we must meet these 2 brothers to settle this case and move the case out of the public arena. Finally if any non Ismailies read these quotes. What is the harm. Imam is giving excellent worldly guidance and if you compare this guidance is in 1964 - it was indeed visionary and to be proud of. Also what has been filed in court and said in transcripts is far more inappropriate (using your word) than quoting some Farman excerpts which are relevant reminders..

@ Mr Shivji is right that there will be differences and it is how we deal with differences openly and with respect, which makes us more pluralistic and respect will beget respect. as love for our imam will beget. love.Thank you Mr Shivjee

@ Bloglaw. Thank you for sharing your time and knowledge seva

I take this opportunity to wish everyone a happy Eid al Adha and I pray that we are all blessed with more generosity in giving of our time, love, money, & of unity, happiness tolerance and respect for each other. Ameen

* United Arab Emirates

Farmans make US proud.
On November 16th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

Sure Farmans are indeed visionary , relevant and do indeed make US proud ; however the "US" refers to Ismaili Muslim Murids....... Farmans are NOT meant to be shared outside the Jamats. Doing that is INAPPROPRIATE . Thats my point !!

* Canada

farmans are visionary, relevant and make us proud
On November 15th, 2010 zarina (not verified) says:

@Momin..... Farmans are holy word or guidance to ismailis ONLY from their Imam. It is for us keep these guidance, words to ourselves only. we have to go these farmnan .. any excerpts are not to posted, or shared in public forum.

Would you share your your family secrets in Public forum?

* Canada

“WE ALL LOVE OUR IMAM.”
On November 13th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM MR. BLOGLAW! I appreciate your blogs both in Ismaili.Net and in Vancouverite. I am like you who wish to set the record straight but other contributors like you and me will not accept our thoughts as expressed because they have something else to express!

I do understand your thoughts on this lawsuit! I have read all your comments, views, and thoughts. We have to understand that this lawsuit though it is filed under oath, it pertains to moral rights of Hazar Imam. Of course, the Ismaili Muslims Intuition and it leadership knew what the defence entails! I will not sit in denial and reject what you are saying! I understand when a litigation is launched the proceedings will be required to meet all the rules and regulations of the Court of Laws. It appears that, one way or another this court case became more like an experimentation which did not finish off the way it was expected!

Mr. Bloglaw, I know you are upset but you do agree that the response and comments on all sides have been unprecedented, sensitive, and exasperating! Many felt the response and comments were abhorring, and monstrous. But if you check with the dictionary, these words are the opposite of love and adore! I am in accord with you that Hazar Imam wants to be more pluralistic and take the lead, and I agree with if we lead by walking the walk internally we can lead externally. I am also in accord with that there should be clarification of sensitive issues amongst we and institutionally! We have to remain united, work together, and speak with one voice!

We are leading a secular life but the spirituality in our upbringing still holds the fervour of mysticism. Therefore, our interpretation will not allow anyone to ridicule our spiritual life! All the arguments which are sustained in this issue have questioned our sincerity and belief!

Our principle conviction is to ourselves and how our conscience dictates our mind and heart. The sense of right and wrong will definitely guide us if our priority is set with our belief! We should not play Gods and all knowing!

I would like to reciprocal all your good wishes word to word! I would like to thank everyone for giving their time in sharing their thoughts and knowledge. I take this opportunity to thank the Librarian Umed who have allowed and moderated this discussion. Mr. Bloglaw, like you we all do so because we care and out of love for the Imam.

May MHI accept all our Seva, and grant us all more Seva, good health, happiness and both material and spiritual prosperity. AMEEN!! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

IMAM WISHES US TO LEAD AND DEBATE AMONGST OURSELVES!!
On November 13th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Nizar Ali K. Shivji November 11, 2010 “YAM, MR. NEWS EDITOR! There is no graciousness and humility in comments made by Mr. Bloglaw!

But with Mr. Bloglaw and hs friends, its never-ending cobwebs of exasperation! Their religious interpretation is only in lip service. I am very sorry to say that they are less sensitive in paternity, and maternity despite their glorification of Ismaili Muslims Imamat! Mr. Bloglaw, in the name of Allah, please wake up to accept your accountability, and conscientiousness with grace and dignity! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

REPLY BY BLOGLAW - When the lawsuit was filed it was under oath. Leaders knew the defence. Any lawyer let alone the best would have said a personal appearance cannot be excluded. Imam knew and knows best. Leaders could have met with the defendants and Imam informally at any time before or after the lawsuit. They decided not to. Also see my post regarding what I would have done. What you would have done different Mr Shivji. All Leaders need to ponder over that question too.

I appreciate some of the responses and comments on all sides have been unprecedented, sensitive and exasperating but not monstrous or abhorring as you suggest. This is because also most of us have a mindset or conditioned(told) not to discuss such issues let alone so unprecedented and serious. Religious discussion are in any event are emotive and sensitive.

Imam wishes us to be more pluralistic and take a lead. If we lead by walking the walk internally we can lead externally ? (see Imam’s guidance & Farmans on this). Thanks to the Editors who have in fact pioneered this unprecedented debate which will help us all to ask, debate and seek clarification of sensitive issues amongst ourselves and institutionally. MHI wishes discussion and unity amongst us (work together and speak with one voice). That is also what Imam advised Dr SS before the lawsuit was filed (see his transcript about discussions amongst leaders) Maybe this debate is also a part of the intention or resultant effect MHI wished or intends. There will hopefully be a change of the mindset which MHI talked about in his lecture on 15 Oct 2010.?

I would like to thank everyone for giving their time in sharing their thoughts and knowledge. Also special thank you to the Editors who have allowed and moderated this discussion. Mr Shivji, like you we all do so because we care and out of love for the Imam.

May MHI accept all you Seva, and grant you all more Seva, good health, happiness and both material and spiritual prosperity. AMEEN

* United Kingdom

@Bloglaw
On November 13th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Mr Bloglaw. I wonder whether it is the same Mr Shivji who has made comments on this web site on Nov. 13 and also comments made on Nov. 11 on other site? Thank You.

* Canada

TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE.
On November 12th, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

From speaking to Ismailis lately, there is reluctance amongst some people to discuss this lawsuit. It appears that an atmosphere of fear and concern for their ‘name” prevents them from commenting on the obvious “elephant in the room.” Or worse, perhaps Ismailis genuinely do not want to discuss something that they see as painful and difficult. Something that forces them to acknowledge that there are differences in the way we perceive our jamaat and its leadership.

If this is true, it is a great shame.

1. Just consider that on one hand, Mowla encourages Sunnis and Shias (many of whom may even lack basic education) to be pluralistic in their ways. i.e. to dialogue, understand and accept those who have different approaches to the great philosophical issues of God, human existence, morality etc. On the other hand, in Ismailis, we have a community of highly educated Canadians, who are reluctant to even acknowledge that differences exists amongst them, let alone come to some accommodation with those with whom they don’t see eye to eye.

2. In gatherings, both private and public, one gets the impression that people have been made to believe that to talk about the lawsuit would somehow displease the Imam. But the way Mowla allowed the discovery to proceed shows quite clear that he wants a dialogue. He invited both sides to work together. He blessed the families of the sewadaries Tajdin and Jiwa. So who is preventing Ismailis from giving their views on this issue. (We know Ismailis have plenty of views about the Catholic priests and Iranian mullahs). Who do the Ismailis have to fear…certainly not their Imam because not a day goes by without Mowla extolling the virtues of discussion, dialogue and tolerance in religious matters.

3. It is possible that some people fear that their views may be reported up the chain of command to reach MM and SS and they will be “blacklisted” from council “positions”. But that would only help to explain the spineless LIF and other opportunists, who usually have no opinions anyways and pursue prestige and power in name of “sewa”

4. The rank and file are genuine sevadaris, loyal to the Imam and should have nothing to fear. They should find their voices and give their views. They may end up disagreeing with others; some will side with SS and MM, whilst others will see the hand of Mowla in the steps taken by Mr. Tajdin & Mr Jiwa. But all will learn new things and in the end, their faith in the Imam will be shown by the way they handle those with differing opinions. Do they truly accept the Imam’s vision of a pluralistic world, by respecting the Tajdins and Jiwa of our community or do they, like toy soldiers, just mouth the slogans, forever bellowing praise for Mowla’s words but failing to implement them, particularly in the toughest issue to come before the Canadian jamaat.

5. After all, if an Ismaili Imam can get respect from people who follow other faiths and politics, even if when he is a member of that sometimes much feared and despised community (Muslims), then surely fellow Ismailis deserve to be heard when they have a concern or a complaint or a difference of opinion. After all, these Murids are only disagreeing on the tactics of how to spread the Imam’s farmans. One shudders to imagine if they had questioned some real theological concepts of Ismailism, the way the Christians, Jews, Hindus and even Buddhist have done in the last century.

6. It is also a great shame because, by burying the issue of the lawsuit, we send a negative message to our kids; as it is, young people have much less faith in our system, preferring to “drop out” of the JK as soon as they are free from parental control (other than the children of those opportunist leaders, who see themselves enjoying the same prestige and power though nepotism). The message Ismaili parents send to their kids is that the practise of faith is just a matter of mindless rituals – when it comes to actually thinking through a difficult theological matter, everyone “runs for the hills”. Whether it is through fear or deliberate “ignorance”, our children are witnessing the shallowness of their parent’s faith.

7. Our faith, since the time of Hazrat Ali, commands us to develop our intellectual skills to meet the challenges of each new era. We are forbidden to hide our heads in the sand and ignore the facts. There is a law suit in the courts of Ontario that involves the Imam. Sooner or later, the general public will tune in and ask some tough questions. Then Ismailis will be forced to respond or else look dumb. Surely it is better to acquaint oneself with the true facts now.

The best way to know the truth is to visit the Heritage web site. This is where the case is reported daily in frank and comprehensive way. Documents, arguments and opinions of all sides are giving a fair airing. As they say, the truth shall set you free.

* Seychelles

@Abdul
On November 13th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad. Well said. I have said in my previous postings, that our Ismaili Jamat should be more open-minded. Many of them do not wish to discuss this lawsuit, because they do not know all the facts which can be found on Heritage Site, and I think they also feel that whatever the leaders say in Jamatkhanas, is always the "truth", because they have been appointed by Our Imam, and it can affect their "faith". Thank You.

* Canada

@Abdul re: above post of Nov. 12
On November 13th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Your third point is so very true, brother Abdul !
In addition, it is so sad that because of the same fear (i.e. to be "blacklisted") the ordinary members of the Jamat who are aware that this lawsuit was never initiated by Hazer Imam don't dare approach their respective leaders to ask them to channel their request to stop this lawsuit to the higher authorities. If the members of the Jamat overcame that fear and spoke frankly to their local and national councils, this lawsuit would not go much further...
Thank you for your insightful analysis.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

You are right. Imam e zaman
On November 13th, 2010 @Pirani (not verified) says:

You are right. Imam e zaman has said in farmans that It is the duty and responsibility of every leader to read understand and discuss issues concerning the jamat today and effect in the future on both worldly and spiritual matters. Imam has made it clear in farmans that every leader and mukhi's should do so and they can individually write and seek guidance from the Imam and so can any Murid if they are concerned about any leaders or issues. Unfortunately one of the issues highlighted by this case is access to the Imam. When anyone writes to Imam e zaman it goes to and through the same leaders in question as in this lawsuit. Therefore now other leaders are able to get or send information and feed back through this website.

* United Arab Emirates

BLOGLAW summarised, WHY
On November 13th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

BLOGLAW summarised, WHY leaders need to get involved proactively to address the root causes which have led to this unprecedented situation @ BLOGLAW The two root causes to be reversed are;

1 Members of the Jamat have limited access, and encounter difficulties to access Farmans & guidance even in JK’s or ITREB..

2 The widening and growing gap between Imam’s Farmans/Guidance and the ground realities in practice in both worldly and spiritual matters. Imam & leaders are therefore not getting all the correct or complete information and reports. This is because of excessive almost absolute authority & control by a few leaders.

* United Arab Emirates

@ Abdul
On November 13th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I agree with you.
There is a total ignorance about the lawsuit on the part of majority of the Ismailis. They do not visit Heritage site because they say it is not"authorised site".we are not suppose to go there.It is "na farmani" Even among the educated Ismailis very very few have read the cross examinations of Sachedina and defendants. It is like some 2 murids are so bad they are fighting MHI we do not even want to know more.

"IF MHI has chosen Sachedina to be his # 1 man . Why should I doubt his loyalty? If Imam trusts Him I trust him "
This is the answer I got from one of my very intellectual highly educated attorney friend from London.

He was not even open to any more discussions. The minute he came to know I am supporting the defendants view , the communication is minimised significantly. Some are saying defendants are not even listening to the verbal directions from Mawla. Mawla asked them to end the lawsuit and they are still fighting in court. This the situation in USA.

As you said truth shall sit on the roof and yell out then may be some will wake up. Until then everyone is enjoying their perceived slumber party

* United States

@Alibhai Jiwani re: above post of Nov. 13
On November 13th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
What a sad situation, brother Alibhai. I am afraid, it (the situation) is very similar in Canada too, alas: very few people are aware of the real facts reagarding the lawsuit, 99 % of the jamat is little informed about the basic principles of the faith and they don't even realize that no Imam would ever sue a mureed whose bayyat He has accepted. It is most distressing...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Oral directions received
On November 12th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Oral directions received from the Court: Mireille Tabib, Prothonotary dated 12-NOV-2010 directing that "The parties are required to provide their availability to participate in a telephone conference during the weeks of November 15 or 22, 2010." Parties advised by e-mail. placed on file on 12-NOV-2010

IF YOUR FATHER FILED A LAWSUIT AGAINST YOU BLOGLW
On November 11th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

EDITOR OF VANCOUVERITE News Editor November 11, 2010 -Civility and debate in good faith is okay. However, spinning cobwebs is for spiders to do – so refrain from it. The most natural progression would have been for two Ismailis to realize that it would be abominable to bring their spiritual father to a cross examination under oath through a court order. People with faith would have accepted a verbal message from their Imam – and in this case it was signed letters, affidavits, the Boston affirmation, a letter from Prince Amyn. And what is so surprising is that this comes from two people who claim they would lay down their lives. This hypocrisy is what riles Ismailis most. “

SERIOUSLY NOW BLOGLAW, would you have put your natural father or mother through a sworn cross examination for your benefit and not theirs? And these people have said that HH is more than their natural parents, more than their live’s worth? Don’t you find the dichotomy disturbing at all? What is so natural about this progression of shame?

REPLY BY BLOGLAW - Editor Thank you for asking. If my Father had filed a lawsuit against me and I sincerely believed, this was because he did not have all or the correct facts or that he was not the plaintiff.

1 Then I would first try to seek a meeting with him together with my brothers
2 If my father instead sent letters or documents which I did not really believe came from him, I would submit my side of the facts and evidence, and I would also seek a meeting for 5 minutes with my father
3 Then if the only way of meeting my father was through the court process, I would try to do so as quickly as I can in order to end the lawsuit.
4 When I meet my Father, I would not question him but seek directions from him
5 Then I would follow the directions given by our Father to the letter and spirit.
6 If there was a misunderstanding in the directions then I would first seek a meeting and clarification with my brothers.
7 Meanwhile I would prepare sign and send to them what I understood were the directions given by our Father in their presence.
THIS IS WHAT ALNAZ AND NAGIB DID. WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE? WHERE IS THE HYPOCRISY OR DICHOTOMY OR PROGRESSION OF SHAME YOU SPEAK OF ?

On the other hand If I was Dr SS and MM, then certainly after 15 October 2010 I would have had a meeting with my brothers as a priority to discuss, agree and follow ALL directions given by our Father to the letter and spirit. Unless of course our Father specifically directed us not to have any meetings or discussions with Alnaz and Nagib. If that was the case Mr Gray has prepared 2 drafts of the consent order so far and we have the draft signed by Alnaz and Nagib.
Maybe Dr SS and MM are no longer involved in this lawsuit, and the 3 drafts of the consent orders with are with Hazar Imam for consideration. (& other Leaders may also be involved).

* Germany

Why has the case not ended as yet?
On November 11th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

The spiritual and religious teachings worldwide and cross culturally right starting from the times immemorial even when there were limitations of writing skills and languages and availability of papers etc (Vedas and Bible, and Quran, Bhagvat and Geeta and All the Imam’s Farmans) always of course have copyrights of their original authors. Of their originators!
But the authors themselves and the Gurus and Peers have never stopped anyone from copying it and spreading it to the humanity Because reaching it to the believers is the “very essence” of its authorship.

Why would Hazar Imam make so many Farmans and not keep it easily available to his murids and start suing anyone or everyone who with nobility and devotions assists in making it available to his Murids? Does it make sense? Does it sound true? He would never ever do that.

Of course every author does not want his work it to be altered or misinterpreted randomly and wants to ensure it reaches the believers in the accurate form. If any one tries to alter it perhaps that would be considered infringement of copyright and subject to scrutiny and perhaps necessary action

So MHI has Tarika board to ensure authenticity and rapidity and efficiency and responsibility with which the Farmans can be published and distributed to reach even the remotest areas of the world expeditiously. In this age of Internet may be in minutes! Why not? Tarika board has all the acumen at their exposure.

But if that very entrusted Institution does not perform the mandated task in a timely fashion and take decades to print even a small booklet of Farmans What must be done? And we jamat do not ask leaders Why? Out of sheer fear or so called respect for leaders!! Then what? Allah does not help the communities, which do not want to improve their own plight. (Quran And ISMS Farman). We must have the desire and must make effort.

We believe in Hazar Imam because his Farmans are very current and the guidance is well in pace with the time. We believe guidance given 1400yrs ago in Quran needs updates all the time. But if we cannot access that updated guidance as and when we want the whole point becomes totally illogical. Jamat does not raise objection for fear of being looked down upon by leaders who give a very ready answer. “It is Hazar Imam’s wish not to publish”. Shut everyone up!
But can they produce any evidence for that quick and easy statement? Any farman any talika anything to validate that Hazar imam really does not want to publish his own Farmans for decades? None.

It is just an easy way out of performing their mandated tasks. The institutional leaders only wanted the power and authority hence they accepted the position not really interesting in performing or serving with sincerity. So unless some Jawamards like Nagib and Alnaz come forward and seek accountability of the Institutions many of the Farmans will disappear just as it has happened in the past Ismaili history.

There is no reason why it should happen in this era of the highest technological advancement Internet and democracy and such a forthcoming Harvard educated Imam and so much more. It will be a shame if we let that happen. It is only our fault no one else’s. Hazar Imam cannot micromanage for us.He has provided all the tools to us. It is up to us to rise to get what we want. We have to rise to improve our own plight or at least support those who are bravely rising for this important work so vital to sustain our faith.

The life is so busy people do not have time to go and visit their old and sick parents how will they go to Tarika board office and make appointments t to read Farmans? Ridiculous idea! Would Hazar Imam ever recommend that?
Can anyone with sound intellect believe that? Are we that motivated by our Alvaez’s and Mukhi kamadia? Why would Hazar Imam make it so hard? He wants to make religion as easy as possible because he understands the pressures of modern life. Even Quran mentions that Allah does not want religion to be hard for you.

He desires ease for his believers.

There is no monopoly on good knowledge of anyone .It belongs to entire humanity. With center of pluralism making its progress Mark my word His Farmans will be made available by Mawla to everyone in search of knowledge and spiritual enlightenment. Right now may be he does not think is the right time. It will take some time but it is bound to happen
He will determine when is the right time but for sure it will happen. What all is happening now is a preparation for that stage. Global center of pluralism will make available teachings of every religion for everyone to access with responsible behavior. Because this knowledge belongs to every seeker of God and spiritual enlightenment. No one has monopoly on it.

Of course to maintain the sanctity and authenticity is vital and that it will demand responsibility. That is true with every facet of life. The very fact that lawsuit is still not concluded means it has still not achieved what it is suppose to achieve. There must be a lofty goal. This was just an interim break, opportunity to leaders to save themselves from humiliation and offer corrective measures. But they have failed to understand it because of lack of true faith. Opportunity missed by them big time! I want be surprised if Hazar Imam will let the defendants win the case. Because there is no infringement really as Alnaz and Nagib are convinced and are trying to explain to everyone. Hazar Imam Acknowledged the Mehmani incident and he “did not” say “that was no consent” Also he “did not say there was no forgery”. He has copyrights of course everyone has but he did not say you couldn’t spread my Farmans.

In essence the whole creation of the universe is a copyright of the Lord. Can any one deny that? Who can dare copy it without his will? Can you make a tiny cell without his will? Including invitro fertilization! Despite marvelous technology not every ovum or sperm are able to produce babies in test tubes! How come Tarika board with its all needed acumen and resources and big lengthy announcement to world jamat have not been able to come up with even a small booklet of GJ Farmans in one whole year? How could Nagib achieve anything if it was not Mawla’s will? My wife could not carry a lipstick in the deedar hall without being confiscated how did he manage to record each and every Farman? Was not Mawla aware he is doing it? My wife’s camera became nonfunctional once she tried to take Hazar Imam’s photo somewhere! No picture! He is almighty! How could the case be not concluded if it was Not Mawla’s wish?
To deny the power of Mawla’s will is denying the foundation of our faith. That Hazar Imam is the Noor of Allah. He is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent.

Why are we blaming these two murids? They are only the medium through which he is playing his Leela

* United States

Touching, very much so
On November 11th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Very touching, and well reasoned. After arguing cases before ajudhe, this is how judges would explain their judgement.

* Canada

@Alibhai Jiwani
On November 11th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Mr. Jiwani. Very well said. Thank You.

* Canada

Your comment Mr Bloglaw
On November 10th, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

As usual Shabaash !!! We have nothing to add...

* Canada

ALL COMPLANTS AND FEEDBACK SHOULD BE TREATED EQUALLY AND FAIRLY
On November 9th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

EDITOR you say ….the two friends (ALNAZ/NAGIB) continue to provoke and test the system and their latest salvo takes direct aim at the leader (IMAM) of the Ismaili community, his ability to make decisions for the community and his wisdom in making these decisions.

NAGIB AND ALNAZ HAVE IDENTIFIED SERIOUS GAPS AND HIGHLIGHTED THEM TO THE IMAM, LEADERS AND THE JAMAT. THIS IS IN ACCORDANCE WITH IMAM’S FARMANS, DIRECTIONS, CONSTITUTION AND INSTITUTIONAL GUIDELINES.

ALSO CHILDREN INFORMING THEIR FATHER OR THEIR BROTHERS AND SISTERS ABOUT THEIR CONCERNS IS NOT A REASON TO DIS-OWN BUT A REASON TO THANK THEM EVEN IF WE MAY NOT ALWAYS AGREE WITH THEM.

IMAM GAVE DIRECTIONS IN A 30 MINUTE MEETING WHICH ARE NOT BEING FOLLOWED. THE LEADERS IN QUESTION ARE NOT MEETING THE 2 MURIDS TO WORK TOGETHER WITH THEM AND SPEAK WITH ONE VOICE.

TESTING THE SYSTEM AND GIVING FEEDBACK OR HIGHLIGHTING ANY SYSTEMIC FLAWS IS A PART OF OUR INSTITUTIONAL PROCESS. HOWEVER THE TESTING AND REPORTING IS CONTROLLED BY LEADERS IN QUESTION AND MAINTINING THE SYSTEMIC STATUS QUO.

EDITOR: Ismailis have found this to be distasteful and we share that frustration. Hence, the call for measures under the constitution of the Ismailis. .. The pressure is building to hold the hearings..”

EDITOR WITH RESPECT YOU MEAN LEADERS IN QUESTION WHO YOU HAVE BEEN SPEAKING TO, ARE SAYING THEY ARE FRUSTRATED. IF NOT WHO GAVE YOU THIS INFORMATION, WHAT RESEARCH DID YOU DO. WHEN AND WHAT FORMAL COMPLAINTS HAVE BEEN MADE.

YOU ALSO SAY PRESSURE IS BUILDING ON HOLDING HEARINGS – DO YOU MEAN THESE ARE BEING CONSIDERED BY THE TOP LEADERS YOU ARE SPEAKING TO? IF SO IS THIS NOT A CONFLICT OF INTEREST (UNDER NORMAL INTERNATIONAL ARBITRATION RULES THIS WOULD BE SO. IN OUR ARBITRATION POLICIES AND ETHOS THIS IS THE CASE (SEE MOHAMMED KESHAVJEE AUTHORITATIVE ARTICLES AND SPEECHES ON THIS SUBJECT)

Editor: "We are saying that social friction created deliberately by two people should not go unchallenged and a hearing should be held. The constitution suggests that a hearing should be called upon a complaint being received. Such complaints have been received. We think those complaints should be taken up and appropriate measures initiated to hold disciplinary hearings"

WHAT DID THE CONSTITUTION OR THE INSTITUTION DO FOR 2 MURIDS BEFORE THE LAWSUIT WAS FILED. NAGIB AND HAD MADE VERY SERIOUS COMPLAINTS ? WERE THE NATIONAL OR INTERNATIONAL CONCILATION BOARD CHAIR PERSONS CONSULTED OR INFORMED. HAVE THEY BEEN KEPT INFORMED?

MORE COMPLAINTS,GAPS AND REVELATIONS WERE MADE AFTER THE LAWSUIT WAS FILED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ALNAZ NOT EVEN HAVING BEEN CONTACTED FOR ANY CONCILIATION WHATSOEVER BY SS, MM OR ANYONE ELSE.

WHAT DID, WILL AND SHOULD THE INSTITUTION (ALL LEADEERS) DO REGARDING THESE COMPLAINTS FROM THE 2 MURIDS AND FROM THE LEADERS IN QUESTION (BOTH UNPRECEDENTED) . NOW FROM THE EDITOR OF VANCOUVERITTE AND HIS FRIENDS.

IF ALL COMPLAINTS ARE TREATED EQUALLY AND FAIRLY THEN ALL THESE COMPLAINTS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED INSTITUTIONALLY NOT SELECTIVELY. Then IF DECIDED TO BE HEARD. (IF SO ACCESS TO ALL THE RELATED CONSTITUTIONS, RULES PROCEDURES AND POLICIES WILL NEED TO BE MADE AVAILABLE TO THOSE DEFENDING AND INTERESTED ISMAILIES)

HOWEVER THE EDITOR AS I HAVE COME TO EXPECT FROM HIM, ONLY WANTS SELECTIVE COMPLAINTS TO BE CONSIDERED AND HEARD BY THE LEADERSHIP. I THINK EDITOR, YOU HAVE NOT REAEARCHED OR READ FULLY (OR GIVEN ACCESS) TO THE CONSTITUTION AND ESPECIALLY THE RELATED RULES POLICIES AND GUIDELINES INCLUDING THE NATIONAL ONES FOR CANADA, KENYA, UK AND FRANCE WHERE ALL THE FOUR RESIDE (SS-MM-AJ- AND NT). THIS RAISES THE QUESTION WHERE WOULD SUCH A HEARING IF DECIDED BE HELD AND IF WILL BE OPEN ALLOWING ISMAILIES TO BE PRESENT AND WITNESSES TO GIVE EVIDENCE INCUDING LEADERS (: HOW MANY LEADERS OR MURIDS HAVE READ OR HAVE ACCESS TODAY IF THEY WANTED TO READ AND STUDY THEM.

SHOULD THE NCAB OR THE INTERNATIONAL ICAB CONSIDER THE COMPLAINTS AGAINST THE LEADERS IN QUESTION, AND AGAINST THE 2 MURIDS ? IF SO WHETHER NOW, OR AFTER THE COURT CASE HAS ENDED. SINCE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TOP LEADERS WHAT DOES THE CONSTITUTIONA AND THE RULES SAY ON THIS – FOR EXAMPLE DOES THE DICISION GO BACK UP TO DR SS AND THEN FOR HIM TO DECIDE IF HE WILL SEEK GUIDANCE FROM IMAM OR NOT ?

SINCE WE DO NOT KNOW “ALL” THE RULES AND POLICIES WHICH ARE INACCESSIBLE TO MOST, IT IS ALSO NOT POSSIBLE TO GIVE A FULLY INFORMED OPINION.

THIS CASE IS BEING CURRENTLY HANDLED DIRECTLY BY HAZAR IMAM. SO IF MHI IS HANDLING AN ISSUE THEN SHOULD MURIDS MAKE A COMPLAINT? IF SO, ( ACCORDING TO EDITOR THEY HAVE) , AND SO HAS ALNAZ AND NAGIB, THEN SHOULD A COMPLAINT BE ACCEPTED CONDSIDERED AND A FULL REPORT OF ALL THE FACTS AND RECOMMENDATIONS BE GIVEN TO HAZAR IMAM PERSONALLY ? MAY BE AND WE HOPE THIS IS WORK IN PROGRESS AS WE SPEAK.

SINCE THE LAW OF THE LAND PREVAILS SHOULD ICAB ADDRESS THESE COMPLAINTS BEOFORE THE END OF THE COURT CASE AND IF THERE IS THEN AN APPEAL TO THE COURT OF THE LAW OF THE LAND/S AGAINST THAT DECISION THEN WOULD THAT HAVE TO BE UPHELD AND ALL THE DISCLOSURES IN THOSE PROCEEDINGS BE DISCLOSED IN THE COURTS OF THE LAND/S.

MOST IMPORTANT WHAT DOES IMAM SAY -

· WHEN IMAM MET THEM ALL FOR 30 MINUTES ON 15 OCTOBER 2010, IMAM HAS DIRECTED CONCILIATION, SPEAK WITH ONE VOICE AND WORK TOGETHER.
· LEADERS AND IMAM DID NOT ALSO WANT EXCOMMUNICATION. IF THEY DID THEY WOULD HAVE DONE SO BEFORE THE LAWSUIT WAS FILED AND IMAM WOULD CERTAINLY NOT HAVE MET THEM FOR MORE THAN 5 MINUTES OR SAY “MAY I MAKE A SUGGESTION.
· IMAM WANTS THE HERITAGE WEBSITE TO CONTINUE. THEREFORE HE ALSO WANTS THE 2 MURIDS NOT TO BE EXCOMMUNICATED.
· IMAM DOES NOT WANTS THE BOOKS DESTROYED BUT RETAINED BY MURIDS WHO HAVE THEM. IF IMAM WANTED ALNAZ AND NAGIB TO BE EXCOMMUNICATED WOULD HE DIRECT THAT THIS BOOK SHOULD TO BE RETAINED BY MURIDS WHO HAVE THE BOOK.
· IMAM WISHES OUR CONCILIATION AND ARBITRATION BOARDS TO BE EXTENDED BEYOND ISMAILIES. THEREFORE THEY MUST BE, AND BE SEEN TO BE, FAIR AND JUST TO ALL AND TREAT ALL EQUALLY.
· ALL OF US NEED TO PONDER WHY IMAM DECIDED TO GIVE DIRECTIONS FOR 25 MINUTES ON 15 OCTOBER 2010 AND NOT GIVE PRE-DRAFTED INSTRUCTIONS FOR 5 MINUTES AND WHY IMAM DID NOT DISCUSS IN ADVANCE WHAT HE WAS GOING TO SAY WITH SS, MM OR MR GRAY.

I HOPE THERE WILL BE PROPER INSTITUTIONAL REVIEW, RESEARCH PROCESS AND AN IMPACT REPORT (INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL) WHICH IS INCLUSIVE, OBJECTIVE AND CONSULTATIVE. SUCH A REVIEW WILL ALSO HIGHLIGHT RELATED AND CRITICAL CHANGES NECESSARY.

* United Kingdom

@ Bloglaw
On November 9th, 2010 An ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

There have been many attacks at Vancouverite site on you, Nagib and Al Naz since long; however, recently, for last few days they are now severely attacking your each and every post. The reason being: They are unable to reply your posts logically.
Your each and every post to them is studded with full of logic and if some one wants to criticize them, it should be done with logic and point by point rather than using uncivilized, reviled and threatening language which they usually employ. Just perusing their last posts of few days, it is evident they want to demoralize you so much so that you stop sending them befitting replies. I foresee that they are fast building up pressure on you for that purpose. Any person of even ordinary intellect can easily deduce that their replies never matched your posts. Many questions you raised there were remained unanswered. Indeed, you have been doing excellent job. One person v/s so many dwarfs.

The difference between "only logic" verses "faithbased Knowledge
On November 10th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

The difference between “Only Logic” and “Faith based knowledge”
A faithful is going to make his point by knowledge-based facts and logic and he is always able to maintain the respect and integrity of everyone. He is secured he does not have to use substandard language to get his point through.

A faith based argument will always be creative and and will contribute to the knowledge and greater good of humanity.
“ Only logic” based argument is criticism and it is only detrimental.It cannot create anything.

That person might succeed in just asking what they think are logical questions but in fact they cannot reach to any answers or solutions. They do not contribute anything to the solution of the problem but in fact remove the solution further away. They may be able to shut off someone out of their nasty vocabulary but nothing is achieved.

So is the case with Bloglaw and other bloggers on the “other site”. Bloglaw has knowledge and logic that is faith based hence creative and purposeful and of great quality. Others are arguing out of hatred far from even normal standards of conversation. There is a difference of day and night

* United States

The defendants will not lose the case.
On November 9th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I strongly believe that the defendants will not lose the case.
Mawla himself appeared and validated to the defendants with various indicators that his divine self is with them."Khoda Hafiz".
Any believers with the strong belief that Hazar Imam is the manifest "Noor " of Allah will quickly agree with the above statement. (The true essence of Ismailism)

Those with half hearted faith and those who believe Mawla is just a very powerful heriditary progeny of the Prophet with a vast empire of Ismaili COUNCIL, LIF and AKDN and AKF and a bunch of powerful lawyers and every available resource at his exposure is bound to succeed, will not believe in the above statement.

The true momins believe that the above-mentioned institutions are just the exoteric manifestation and outcome of Mawla's apparent human existence, which are created to serve a greater good of the entire universe. But his divine manifestation in this world always was, always has been and always will be solely to protect his "true momins". He has no other goal in life but to help his momins. (Every scripture Geeta, Bhagvat, Pir's Ginans) validates this point,(including MHI's last GJ Farman Talika)

His purpose of every "Avatar" has always been to protect his dearest momins (True believers) and destroy the evil.
His high profile speeches and High profile Centers etc are his pass times and role model karma in the human role while he is achieving his intended divine goal.

So according to me, to all of us,MHI's last visit to Canada may seem like he traveled all the way to Canada for the prestigious lecture "LA Fontaine" that was only an excuse.He is above prestige and recognition , which are ordinary human desires. To appear for his true momins Nagib and Alnaz and give them necessary guidance and strength and provide opportunity to "the Leaders" to still correct themselves must have been his true goal. But our Mawla is very "packka" he "makes believe" everyone differently.

Hence no matter how brilliantly Mr. Gray plays his cards the defendants will win. They will not lose because "Aly" is with them. Defendants have no selfish motive they are fighting for the “greater good” of the Jamats worldwide (To make Their Mawla's Farmans available) His exoteric army (Law firm and LIF etc) is with "the Leaders" but it will prove totally weak in front of divine Mawla whose "Noor" is guiding the defendants who are strongly doing their Karma.

My views may not be in agreement with the vast majority of the jamat and they may want to kill me But so be it. If I do not post what I strongly feel, I might be doing a disservice to the almighty. Mawla is the only one to decide who is right and who is not. May be He is inspiring me to write which of course I “do not” know for sure.

I

* United States

@ Alibhai Jiwani
On November 10th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Yes, you are absolutely right. He is always there to help His Lovers in their dire need. Miracles did happen in the past and will also continue to happen. All one need is the right perception to observe and understand them.

THE HONUORABLE THING TO DO AS DIRECTED BY IMAM
On November 9th, 2010 @Alibhai (not verified) says:

You are right and right to share. Imame zaman reminded us and the world on 15 October in the Morning and the evening of that special day about the power of the divine. And to seek- share with love, humility and hospitality and not out of anxiety or fear (excerpt below from Imam e zaman - Caps supplied )

"..In sum, what WE MUST SEEK AND SHARE is what I have called “a cosmopolitan ethic,” a readiness to accept the complexity of human society. It is an ethic which balances rights and duties. It is an ETHIC FOR ALL PEOPLES. It will not surprise you to have me say that such an ethic can grow with enormous power OUT OF SPIRITUAL DIMENSIONS OF OUR LIVES . IN ACKNOWLEDGING THE IMMENSITY OF THE DIVINE WE WILL ALSO COME TO ACKNOWLEDGE OUR HUMAM LIMITATIONS AND INCOMPLETE NATURE OF HUMAN UNDERSTANDING.

In that light, the amazing diversity of Creation itself can be seen as a great gift to us – NOT A CAUSE for anxiety BUT A SOURCE of delight. Even the diversity of our religious interpretations can be greeted as SOMETHING TO SHARE WITH ONE ANOTHER - RATHER THAN SOMETHING TO FEAR .

In THIS SPIRIT OF HUMILITY AND HOSPITALITY – the stranger will be welcomed and respected, rather than subdued – or ignored.In the Holy Quran we read these words: “O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord who created you from a single soul …[and] joined your hearts in love, so that by His grace ye became brethren.”As we strive for this ideal, we will recognize that “the other” is both “present” and “different.” And we will be able to appreciate this presence – and this difference – as gifts that can enrich our lives.."

HOW PROFOUND INSPIRING AND DIVINE ! I pray that everyone will work together to end to this case as directed by Imam e Zaman.

* United Arab Emirates

very well said
On November 9th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Very well said, in serving Mowla, we should be happy, humble and confident. We may work hard and struggle knowing that sucess is in His hands.

Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah said:

"You should act in such a manner that wherever I go I get to hear
that the followers of the Aga Khan are like the angels. If you
act as such, only then your faith will be beneficial to you...
If you do bad deeds, you would be known as an evil person; if
you do good deeds, you would be known as a pious person, and
everyone would say that the religion of the Khojas – the followers of the
Aga Khan is very good."

* Canada

Why are SS and MM being so cruel
On November 9th, 2010 Iman (not verified) says:

When the defendants have agreed that the Imam has got the copyright over his Farmans then why are SS and MM insisting on them (defendants) to accept copyright infringement. I think it is purely to show their power to the Jamat.

How can these leaders be so cruel because they know what the consequences will be for Nagib and Alnaz if they accept what the two leaders want. And why should the defendants accept it even. Copyright issue was raised only after this case. Before that there were no written guidelines about copyright. So I think SS and MM are being quite unreasonable by asking them to accept copyright infringement.

* United Kingdom

The curtain has lifted
On November 7th, 2010 Zeenatara Allahrakhyaa (not verified) says:

Oh my God, it should all be clear now to the entire jamat worldwide. With MHI's mulaqaat with the defendants, and the reports by the defendants of what He said and commented, it should all be very clear now as to what has transpired. And the only acceptable reaction is horrified anger. MHI's comments such as "I wish we could speak with the same voice", "I am not aware of any website issues", "Why can you not work together", "those who have bought the books can keep them", "only return the undistributed books", "I wish to protect my ginans", "the imam annotates the firmans but does not change them", all these and other comments and happenings, such as Mr Gray snatching the letter from the Imam's hand, have very very meaningful and far-reaching undercurrents.
All those with even a bit of intelligence will have realized through all these comments as to what some people are capable of and how much love and respect they have for the imam.

The defendants to-date have been much ostracized. Even their families and children have not been left alone. Now that the truth is out, why is everyone quiet?! Why is there no indignation against how little love and respect senior leaders have for the imam and for their audacious behaviour in using the imam's name and also in the presence of the imam Himself?!
Shame on all of us now if we don't, with one voice, condemn this behaviour and demand their resignations!!
The jamat needs to wake up and fight against those who have accorded such shabby treatment towards our most loving and dearest imam for whom we can even give up our lives!!

@Zeenarara
On November 7th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad. Zeenatara, well said. I wonder what acion have those leaders taken, who were present in the meeting when this incident took place, "Mr Gray snatching the letter from Our Beloved Hazar Imam's hand"? That was very disrespectful". "Thank you.

* Canada

MORE MIS-INFORMATION OR SPECULATION
On November 7th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Comments by News Editor Vancouverite November 6, 2010 “…..we’re dealing with a different kind of beast here. And I have impressed upon our leaders the penalty for appeasement and timidity in handling this situation. I am now hoping that leadership will dispense with the niceties and move on with vigour in both seeking a legal response and an internal constitutional response to this unbelievably atrocious attack on HH, his appointed leaders, the system of justice and just plain human decency. No right thinking person can now say that we did not try every available means prior to taking vigorous action within the confines of the law. And I think there is a realization of this at the very top too. I think that sense of frustration has now reached the top of the Ismaili leadership and I think from now on there will be no more conversations.

RESPONSE BY BLOGLAW – Editor; You say there have been conversations, niceties by the leaders and every means available has been tried to conciliate and settle this lawsuit.
Have there really been ANY conversations or meetings between Leaders and Alnaz/Nagib after 15 October 2010. Since you say you are in contact with top Leaders, ask them again what conversations or meetings have taken place, and what other means they have tried if any? Also what are the niceties you claim were extended by the Leaders to Alnaz and Nagib? NONE from what I have read so far and based on what Dr SS and MM said on 15th Oct 2010.

Earlier you said if Leaders had sat down together immediately after the meeting on 15th October then issues could have been resolved and the consent order filed. There was no meeting. Do you have new factual information from the leaders, and if so, please do report the facts.

I appreciate you say, you are only THINKING and so speculating what leaders may be thinking and you are HOPING they will have no more conversations, and leaders will excommunicate them etc. I am sorry inaccurate information leads to inaccurate conclusions. Hence your totally wrong unsubstantiated statement that no right thinking person can now say every available means was tried. That is not responsible reporting or journalism. I refer you to Hazar Imams speech of 15 October 2010. The section where Hazar Imam is talking about spreading of such mis-information, dis- information and resulting distortions.

Can also please also find out what is the precise reason delaying the signing & filing of the consent order. Also why an admission of infringement is so critical, notwithstanding Imam’s directions. According to my analysis posted earlier it is not a critical need. There has been no reasoned response so far. I assume you, as a journalist have asked the Leaders and or Mr Gray to comment.

* United Kingdom

@Bloglaw re: above post of Nov. 7th
On November 9th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for your perseverance in replying to those posts, Bloglaw. Mowla sukhi raakhè. Ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Bloglaw
On November 7th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Mr. Bloglaw. I wonder whether editors from other sites have discussed with the leaders, the incident that took place in the meeting, when "Mr. Gray snatched letter from Our Beloved Hazar Imam's hands"?. I am sure we all Ismailis find this "very disrespectful". Also, are these editors going to discuss this issue on their websites? Thank you.

* Canada

Vancouverite Editor speak for Dr SS and MM
On November 7th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

YAM if you read the last 4 comments of Bloglaw in that website and that editors comments it is very clear that he speaks to the leaders In question and therefore his replies are based on what the leaders are telling him. As he said no right minded and thinking responsible and especially and Ismaili journalist and reporter would not ask and report what happened in that meeting and what is the difference between them and why is there a critical need for an admission of infringement. this has been excellently analysed and creased by Bloglaw .

* United Arab Emirates

Heritage Website
On November 6th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

My friend has been in offensive mood for last few months since the filing of the case. From the beginning, he used to believe that the case has been filed by HI and for which, instead of giving logical reasoning, he was heavily relying upon some press reports and words of Mr. Gray and Dr. SS. Many a times he used very hash language against Nagib and Al Naz and supporting each and every word, every action and every move of Gray and SS.

When the defendants moved their ‘discovery’ application in the court, he almost blew off and declared that the court would never sanction/approve ‘discovery’, as Gray is such a lawyer that he will turn that application into pieces. But when even Ottawa judge upheld the discovery granted by prothonotary, he became so much furious that he even reviled the defendants and termed them as renegades. He further uttered that,” Not only would these two renegades but their families as well as their supporters also go to hell. In no case HI will appear before them and grant any Mulakat even for a minute to these renegades, instead He will appear directly in the court and will present his identity as the plaintiff.

However, when HI presented himself for the meeting and granted Mulakat for extra 25 minutes, besides 5 minutes of ‘recording’, even then he tried to justify the snatching of Nagib’s letter from HI’ hands. Being neighbors and in the same profession, we are good friends. However, our views on this topic are poles apart. He used to debate almost daily about this topic with me, and most of the time in his mothers’ presence.

I told him: “Let Gray and his team think that they have done a good job by selective recording, but you will see that they will not get any advantage out of it. As HI is now officially aware of the issue, and at the right time he will certainly come again for mediation.”

I was very much pleased that some few days back when his mother gave him following advice in my presence: “Do not attack these two Murids. I know that they have attained much spiritual progress and just see how much Heritage site has been providing wonderful materials about our Satpanth. Very few Ginans are ever published by Ismailia Association/ Tariqa Board, but you will find all Ginans and their meanings on this web site that also include Ruhani Ginans and History of our Imams. Don’t listen to leaders in the matter of our Tariqa, just live by Farmans.”

@ Asif
On November 7th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

I agree Asif. Just going some posts at other site including that of the news editor, I just shudder at the thought as to what would happen if the defendants lost the case in the court. It seems these people are ready to pounce on Nagib, Al Naz, rabiya, Yasmin, Alibhai Jiwani and others just like the vultures, vampires and wolves pounce on their preys.
But as you have said, since HI is now officially aware of what is going on, He certainly would not leave the two Murids at the mercy of trio (SS.MM and Gray) who too fueled by egocentricity, vengeance, and retribution wants to suck each drop of blood out of Nagib and Al Naz.
One should not remain in illusion. He is always there , at the right time, to help out His Gopis, His Nuseris, His Fidais and His Lovers(313 Momins).
Next, Nagib and Al Naz have already gave their version of off the record discussion of 25 minutes, and now many members of Jamat have started realizing how our top leaders behaved with our Maula, and yet these leaders have maintained mum. This itself proves that off the record materials provided by defendants is all authentic. Otherwise why should they maintain total silence about all such important observations?

@Kassamali
On November 8th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Mr Kassamali. Thanks for your interesting comments.

If Our Beloved Hazar Imam wanted to talk to Nagib and Alnaz just for 5 minutes, He would have done so, and given them instructions and gone, but He was with them for 30 minutes and He was so "gracious", because he knows each and every Murid of His, He also knows their intentions. Nagib and Alnaz are His good Murids, and Mowla loves all His Murids. Whoever is trying to attack verbally these Murids or anyone else, are "hurting Our Mowla".

You have stated in your comments that I can also be pounced by some people on other sites. Mr Kassamali, I always believe one thing that, only Allah and my Mowla knows my intentions, and They can only judge me. If people wish to say anything about me, or attack me verbally, it's ok, because my "goona are washed away", and I just pray for them.

Instead of attacking verbally Spiritual Brothers and Sisters, why can't people who are also hurting our Mowla, because of their behaviour, leave issues of this Lawsuit in His hands, who has already intervened, and Inshallah He will take care of everything.

I have mentioned this before in my previous postings on this Great Site, that we are just discussing for changes to be made in the policies of our leaders, this would be better for our coming generations also.

We all are Spiritual Children of Our Beloved Hazar Imam, "why can't we be united and work together", as He always says.
Thank You.

* Canada

Spiritual health and education
On November 5th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Many people dedicate their spare time or full time to serve Mowla's health and education institutions. They follow Mowla's wish and Farman to render service to the jamat and the Imam. And they serve as Mowla says without any hope of title and expecting nothing in return except Mowla's happiness and blessings (at least they should).

Nagib and Alnaz, and all those who helped in gathering, compiling, distributing, defending, reading, analyzing, preserving and sharing Mowla's Farmans did a service to the spiritual health and education of the Ismaili Jamat. They offered a confidential, loyal and utmost service to the work of the Imam of the time and to the spiritual quality of life of the Jamat.

Mowlana Hazar Imam said to leaders in Gilgit 1987:

" I would like you to know that the Imam has placed great trust and great confidence in you....But remember that authority has with it duty and the need to serve. There is no authority in My mind which is healthy if it is absolute and it does not take place within a philosophical and a social context. And, therefore, in your leadership to the Jamat, be considerate, be humble, be hard working and share with the Jamat their concerns and their needs. So that they come to you not out of duty and obligation, but they come to you out of affection and respect and love and admiration."

* Canada

To Farmanbardari re: above post of Nov. 5
On November 8th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, brother Farmanbardari, Nagib and his team have done an outstanding job.
And the farman you quoted is such a balm on the hearts of those who sometimes shake their head at the way some leaders do their work, wondering whether they (=the leaders) ever had guidelines or not about the way to perform their service...Thank you.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Opportunity NOT missed !!!!
On November 5th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Very well said Alnaz, bravo, We continue to pray for you and Nagib

* Canada

WHY INSIST ON INFRINGEMENT - SELF INTEREST OR A CRITICAL NEED !
On November 4th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

If MHI had personally instructed Mr Gray to file the lawsuit, then on 15th Oct 2010, why would Imam spend 25 minutes with the defendants and not one minute to say he is the plaintiff, there were no forgeries, he would like allegations withdrawn and a Judgment agreed. Leaders need to ponder over this question and directions given by Hazar Imam on 15 Oct 2010.

The main disagreement in the 2nd consent order drafted by Mr Gray and what Nagib-Alnaz signed, is that Mr Gray/Dr SS and MM, want Alnaz and Nagib to admit that they infringed copyright (according to Alnaz)
So Let us examine reasons the why Mr Gray/SS/MM should be asking Alnaz and Nagib to admit they Infringed copyright;

a. Alnaz and Nagib have never questioned and have already admitted Imam’s has copyright over farmans.
b. Imam has registered copyright of His Farmans in Canada after the start of this lawsuit.
c. Imam has given consent for books which have been already distributed to remain with murids.
d. Since Imam has consented. There is therefore no reason why legally and for the purpose of a consent order this consent cannot be a continuing consent which was settled by conciliation and agreement at the behest of the Imam.
e. Imam has no issue therefore also with integrity or authenticity of farmans in the book.
f. By not admitting any infringement by Alnaz & Nagib, our mehmani rite and ceremonies are also preserved, remain intact & hooured.
g. Imam has accepted Alnaz was not involved with the printing, publication or any infringement. Why should he be asked to admit infringement
h. Imams copyright is no less or more protected if Alnaz and Nagib admitted infringement or did not. So why the need.
i. Imam, did meet for 25 minutes, wanted conciliation, and directed everyone to work together, and Imam will meet Alnaz and Nagib again. Imam wanted all to speak in one voice.

In view of the above the only reason why Mr Gray Dr SS and MM are trying to get an admission of infringement from Alnaz and Nagib can only be motivated by self interest and or to boost personal ego’s and or other such reasons. There is no critical need or benefit for the Imam or the community in asking for an admission of an infringement for the consent order. If there is r I have missed something, then I invite leaders in question, Alnaz, Nagib, or Mr Gray to share them with us, and or to comment on what was said in those 25 minutes ? According to the defendants the following is a summary of what was said;

1 Nagib said he is seeking forgiveness and only Directions, Instructions and Orders from Imam. He did not exercise his law of the land right to question or cross examine Hazar Imam
2 Imam wants them to admit copyright over His farmans and added that this is the honourable thing to do
3 Imam will meet Alnaz and Nagib going forward.
4 Imam annotates His Farmans but does not change any Farmans
5 Imam offered the annotated Farmans to Alnaz and Nagib if they wanted them.
6 Imam said that when Farmans were changed in the past , it has hurt dais
7 Imam wishes to protect Farmans from being changed, and to protect Ginans.
8 Imam confirmed that a murid [referring to Karim Alibhay] presented him the first book during a mehmani ceremony in Montreal in 1992, and Imam responded by encouraging him to continue the work;
9 Mr. Tajdin informed Imam that he had 200 books remaining in Kenya and if he can return them to ITREB in Kenya. Imam agreed.
10 Alnaz sought further clarification and Imam confirmed again that the distributed copies of the books can remain with whomever they have been distributed to, and that only the undistributed books are to be handed to ITREB
11 Dr Sachedina objected to this and suggested that he could send an announcement to be read in all Jamatkhanas for all copies distributed to be returned. Imam refused and responded to him by saying “it would be nice if we spoke with the same voice”; {meaning Dr Sachedina was contradicting Imam’s decision,. Instead of asking for guidance he is contradicting Imam’s wishes”}
12 Imam suggested that Alnaz and Nagib withdraw allegations of fraud made against His staff, and officers.
13 Imam confirmed that Farmans of previous Imams and the copyright in them also belongs to the Imam;
14 Mr. Manji asked Imam to direct Alnaz and Nagib to cease the heritage web site activities. Imam refused. Mr. Manji then said to Imam that the web sites causes a lot of problems and confusion in the Jamats and has a name similar to Ismaili.org. Imam responded to him by saying that Imam is not aware of web issues and “it would be nice if we spoke with one voice”, and added “why cannot you work together?”
15 Mr. Tajdin informed His Highness that he took full responsibility for the publication of the books and that Jiwa had nothing to do with publishing of the books, to which Imam responded that he knew “Mr. Jiwa” was not involved in the publication of the books;

According to Mr Gray whatever was said off the record is legally privileged. Therefore legally he will not attempt to agree what was said off the record or for it to be admitted in court. However by changing his first draft he is accepting that his first draft was not in accordance what was agreed, which justifies the resulting disputes.

Will Dr SS and MM take the same stand as Mr Gray or will they do the right and honourable thing by sitting down with the leadership and together with Alnaz/Nagib ensure ALL directions given by Hazar Imam are fully shared, discussed, agreed and followed.

* United Kingdom

Here is the guidelines that court sets
On November 5th, 2010 sadrudin (not verified) says:

Oral directions received from the Court: Mireille Tabib, Prothonotary dated 02-NOV-2010 directing that There is a disagreement between the parties as to what transpired in the course of the attendance of the Plaintiff to be examined on discovery.

Notes from Admin:

The full text is on Docket.

* United States

@bloglaw, regarding Nov 4th comment
On November 5th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Excellent summary and analysis.

* United States

Lawyers...
On November 4th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Some people at other site used to praise Gray as HI’s lawyer and used to write that,’ He talks frequently to HI during the case proceeding’. If that was so did he not know how to behave and to respect such a personality, and why did he snatched that letter from His hands? What a crass behavior by this so called a senior lawyer! How can one believe that he was appointed by HI? Had he been appointed by HI as His lawyer, instead of snatching the letter from Him, he would have gracefully requested,’ His Highness, please do not read this letter, it would weaken our case’. How could any lawyer annoy his own client of top most international personality who pays him a hefty fee? Is there, then, any doubt left as to who hired him?Each and every thing gets unfolded gradually for wise people to know one truth after another. Remain watchful, many more will follow.

Initially he tried to prove that he was appointed by HI just by showing a photograph. He failed there. That was his first lie. Next, he employed all his experience, all his talent and all his energy to thwart the discovery request of the defendants. And here he failed miserably. One can easily understand that his one defeat after another at the hands of so called ordinary people (defendants), was too much for him and he was very much annoyed. Therefore, he used his cunning tactics, when he realized that Nagib’s letter of 4th January in the hands of HI would be a great set back to trio, he instantly snatched the letter from HI’s hands.

Will Dr.SS and Mr. MM advise their lawyer, at least next time, as how to behave with HI? And even at the meeting why did they not take objection and pointed out this great blunder of their lawyer? What kind of Ismails are they? But why should they do it, when they themselves were rude to HI?

Pursuing the Case Further
On November 4th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

Gray has craftily recorded only those things which suits him and hence it would be easy for him to establish that Agakhan indeed is the plaintiff and that He wanted allegation of forgery be withdrawn by the defendants. In the recording Nagib waw recorded saying,’ Sorry, I withdraw allegation of forgery’.All such things will be thoroughly exploited by Gray with his usual style.
Nagib, Al Naz: ‘Please be careful of this trio. They can go to any extent to win the case. Though they were not successful until the stage of cross examinations, but they are expert in surreptitious and cunning moves. We all know that you have worked very hard during all these seven months, but now you will be required to work even much more hard, for obvious reasons that they are not to be trusted at any stage.’
Lastly, our prayers are as usual are with you. May Maula guide and help you at each and every day and each and every step.

"Make Hazar Imam Happy"
On November 4th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad. Our Beloved Hazar Imam has sacrificed His entire life for the Ismaili Jamat, and after 53 years of His Imamat, He has to remind the leaders again that "it would be nice if we spoke with one voice, why can't you work together?" It's very sad. Thank you.

* Canada

letters
On November 3rd, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Thank you Admin for the letters. Why am I not suprised about all this. Gray SS continue their manipulation, I have a question for Vazir Sachedina, 'aren't you afraid Vazir Saheb about your actions? Are you defying Mowla, you were present in the meeting, why don't you want to close this shameful case for everybody. Why do you keep lying''. if you continue like this instead of resolving peacefully and honourably this lawsuit with the defendants as Mowla said, the jamat will never believe you and will never believe in you any more. This is very very vey sad. Mowla subudi diye ne rahem kare.

* Canada

Meeting with the Imam
On November 4th, 2010 sadrudin (not verified) says:

Imam already knew, what is going to happen after that meeting/discovery and therefore, HE already forcasted the next meeting! Just be patience, Imam will follow up on this issue with HIS leaders and bring the matter to conclusion.

* United States

@ALIBHAI JIWANI AND ALNAZ
On November 3rd, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

IF MR TAJDIN & MR ALNAZ WERE TO SIGN WHATEVER IS PRESENTED TO THEM IN THE NAME OF MOWLA, DESPITE THE WORDS OF MOWLA HEARD BY THEIR OWN EARS, THEN WHAT HAVE THEY BEEN FIGHTING FOR ALL THIS TIME?

IT APPEARS THAT THE LAWYER, SS AND MM ARE UP GAMES TO PROTECT THEIR REPUTATIONS AGAINST THE WISE COUNSEL OF MOWLA, WHO TREATED THIS MATTER WITHOUT HOSTILITY, WITH DIGNITY AND WITH FORGIVENESS.

TO TAKE THE POINT OF ALIBHAI JIWANI, MOWLA KNOWS EVERYTHING. HE MUST HAVE KNOWN THAT THE LAWYER AND COMPANY WILL TRY TO MANIPULATE NAQIB AND ALNAZ AND THAT THEY IN TURN WILL RESIST. IN THIS SEQUENCE OF EVENTS, MOWLA EXPRESSED HIS CLEAR DESIRE BY CHOOSING NOT TO INTERVENE.

OUR SEWADARIS HAVE NO CHOICE BUT REMAIN ON THE SIRATUL MUSTAQEEM. THEY MUST CONTINUE TO EXPOSE ALL THE SHENANIGANS OF THESE MANIPULATORS OF MOWLA’S WILL UNTIL DIRECTED OTHERWISE BY THE IMAM HIMSELF.

BY THE WAY, WHEN NAQIB SAID HE WOULD GIVE HIS TAN, MAN AND DHAN TO MOWLA, HE DID SO CONVINCED THAT HIS MOWLA WOULD NEVER DESTROY HIM FOR SOMETHING DONE WITH HONESTY AND FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE JAMAAT. MOWLA REWARDED HIS FAITH BY OFFERING HIM MORE OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE THE JAMAAT. IF MOWLA HIMSELF HAD DEMANDED EVERYTHING FROM HIM, HE WOULD COMPLY AS HE WOULD SURELY BE REWARDED IN THIS AND THE NEXT WORLD. HIS FAITH IN THE IMAM, WHILST FOOLHARDY FOR AN ORIDNARY DEFENDENT, IS NOT UNKNOWN IN A TRUE MOMIN.

BUT HE NEVER THOUGHT THAT CLEVER, HIGH PRICED LAWYERS IN THE EMPLOY OF AMBITIOUS, INCOMPETANT BUT ULTIMATELY FAITHLESS LEADERS COULD DEMAND THAT HE SIGN AWAY HIS LIFE’S WORK IN THE JAMAAT. BECAUSE AS WE ALL KNOW, ONCE HE SIGNS ANYTHING LIKE WHAT THEY WANT, THEY WILL USE THEIR CONTROL OF THE LIF TO RUTHLESSLY CONDEMN HIM IN FRONT OF THE REST OF THE JAMAAT, WHO WOULD BE IGNORANT OF THEIR GAMES.

INCIDENTALLY, WHY WOULD ALNAZ HAVE TO SIGN ANY CONSENT IF MOWLA, WHO IS THE PLAINTIFF, ACKNOWLEDGED THAT HE KNEW THAT ALNAZ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PUBLICATION AND HE DID WHAT HUNDREDS OF ISMAILIS DID IN GOOD FAITH.......DISTRIBUTE THE BOOK TO FAMILY AND FRIENDS?

AND SO IT IS OK TO KEEP THE FARMAN BOOKS (AND PASS THEM TO FAMILY) FOR EVERYONE BUT NOT ALNAZ?

IT GETS BIZARRE…….

* Seychelles

Heritage WebSite
On November 3rd, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Congratulation. This WebSite can not be closed. Though they have failed this in future, they are sure to try again for banning it. But ‘રામ રાખે તેને કોણ ચાખે?’ ( How can they be successful when Maulana’s blessings are with Heritage.
So far Davids have been winning one battle after another against Goliath, and we are sure in future too, you will continue until the final battle is won.
Continue your struggle; our prayers are with you.

Letters from Alnaz and Nagib on the Court Docket
On November 2nd, 2010 heritage says:

As users are asking to read the letters from Nagib and Alnaz on the court docket, the latest have been attached on the following link:

A. Various Court Filings

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

What is Hazar Imam's message?
On November 3rd, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

Here are 2 murids who have been standing up for the sanctity of Imam's Word, and for what they believe Hazar Imam told them at Mehmani. These 2 Murids obviously do not trust the leadership, and many have understood their reasons. They doubt that Hazar Imam is behind the Statement of Claim.

On Oct 15, Hazar Imam appears, he knows the words to say that would clear all doubt.

Instead, Hazar Imam proposes a conciliatory approach, and starts correcting the misconceptions about Farmans, Mehmani, etc, and He lets these 2 murids see how Mr Gray snatches the paper that Hazar Imam was reading out of His Hand, He lets them see how Mr Sachedina interrupts and disagrees with Mowla. He lets them see how Manji interrupts and disagrees with Mowla. He lets them see how Gray later tries to propose a draft containing the opposite of what Imam said.

What message did the 2 murids actually get? Can this situation give the 2 murids more confidence in the Leadership? Should they still follow what they heard Hazar Imam say? Or should they consent to something different because it would be easier or because they fear these bold leaders who are allowed to breach protocol and civility towards Hazar Imam?

Ideally, all those present at the meeting should review exactly what Mowla said during the whole meeting, put it on paper, and end the case with this document. It may require concessions from everyone present including, as quoted in Hazar Imam's speech that night, to "work with people we may not particularly like", but how honourable it would be!

DID LEADERS LISTEN TO THE ENTIRE RECORDING AGAIN?
On November 2nd, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

The entire meeting was recorded and the recording is available. A simple process of listening & sharing the full recording could have avoided delay, costs, confusion and embarassment both internal and exteranal..

Can Librarian Umed obtain and post the 2 consent drafts of Mr Gray and the one signed by Nagib/ Alnaz ? Or a summary or list of precisely what is being disputed by Mr Gray

* United Arab Emirates

Recording
On November 3rd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

No the off the record conversation is not recorded. The rules governing these issues say, firstly, that only parties can attend; secondly, court reporter can go off the record only if all parties (participating in the discoveries) must consent before a reporter can off the record.

The reporter was chosen by Mr. Gray (ordered by court) but normally the examiner (in this case Nagib) would retain a reporter. The reporter seemed very close to mr. Gray and should not have gone off the record.

It is not surprising to me that Mr. Gray went off the record, and that the reporter chose to abide by his unilateral demands.

Unfortunately, I did not believe that they would play games but in hindsight I should have known better not to trust them.

One example of the issues of concern, they are insisting that we agree to infringement of copyright. I can't agree because MHI did confirm that books can be kept by the people. There can't be consent and infringement at the same time.

* Canada

you can agree if this is the only major difference
On November 3rd, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

Alnaz If the major difference is to admit to Imams copyright. Can you not say on 15 October 2010 it was agreed the defendants admit without reservation that the plaintiff has copyright to farmans and that 200 books which have not been distributed will be handed over to ITREB Nairobi and the plaintiff consents to the rest of the books which were printed and distributed. It is further agreed and the defendants undertake that the defendants will not print and distribute Farmans in the future without prior consent from the plaintiff.

unless there are other major differences, I hope and pray you and Nagib will find a way to agree a consent order to end this case We all appreciate if you were not in presence of Mawla, you would have complained on the record,and stopped Mr Gray,s legal unilaterality etc etc . Mr Gray is trying to do his legal best legally for his client and that should not surprise anyone.

* United Arab Emirates

The defendant have not put
On November 3rd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The defendant have not put anywhere in Court that they do not agree with the Copyright of the Imam, they have always agreed to this so there is no major difference as anything else is small stuff which should not be any hinder to all parties sinning of a Consent Judgment in the format acceptable to all parties. .

An Urgent and eager plea to both the defendants.
On November 2nd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

After reviewing the latest posted letters and information regarding discovery I think wisdom lies in defendants just submitting to the will of Mawla.

I understand that Nagib and Alnaz were so humbled and overwhelmed by the fact they were in the presence of Mawla and his body language was so affectionate that they were engrossed in his Noor (being true momins).I think they forgot the legality of the situation and Gray and the leaders took every advantage of it by working it in their favor.

But hey! remember in your original affidavits you had agreed that only if you know Hazar Imam is the real plaintiff you
will surrender all what you have and own.( You cannot go back from that)

So let Gray and leaders feel they are winners but Mawla has given you great Acknowledgements and promise.
You will get plenty of opportunity to ask Mawla about your disappointments and injustice in future ( Inshaallah in very near future) He is aware of every single thing . So please do not fight about anything anymore even if there is obvious contradiction , just accept.And See the Miracles in your life. The Lord him self has said "Khoda Hafiz" means his divine self will protect you! What more do you want? These words will take your generations long way protected by him dearly.
It is like Nusseiri hearing From eternity"He is a true momin" So Alnaz and Nagib, brothers , please please I beg you just agree to everything . You have experienced and personally known that in true spirit Mawla is with you.

In the physical realm if you had hypothetically won but if Mawla was indeed not happy with you would that be any way be better? Not in a million years. So be happy and facilitate whatever it takes to end the lawsuit He has expressed His wish and you must expedtiously fulfll His wish there lies the wisdom and farmanbardari. You might lose the good will of jamat completely if you do not. However right you may be.

You really do not have any grounds now to continue. Mawla will apreciate your generosity. and that will establish your merits for future association to work with him Leaders will get what they deserve of their Karma. Leave that to Mawla. You are basically momins and this is all about faith and love and not the legalities Otherwise it is now on going to be heresay and very petty. Do not place your self so low after mawla gave you great acknowledgements.

* United States

Urgent plea misplaced!!!
On November 2nd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

With respect, I cannot agree with you.

Ask yourselves why did MHI start by saying, may I make a SUGGESTION .....

Was he issuing a direction? An order? A command?

Had he wanted to do so he could have done so specially as Nagib said he was seeking guidance and direction. MHI knew what we were fighting for.

His suggestion was temporary - Heritage did not report the whole sentence said by MHI. After saying may I make suggestion as reported, after saying about copyright and returning books (to ITREB) MHI adds immediately, this is the honorable thing to do, and I will meet you to deal with these issues.

He of course meant outside the court process, so this was solution to resolve the legal case.

But he suggested, now why would we agree and settle whatever is asked of us? Indeed why? The whole thing would be moot and useless.

MHI did not say settle at any cost, whatever is asked of you, no.

So I intend to continue the fight for the Imam and the jamat, your suggestion is plain and wrong and that attitude is what fuels the corrupt leaders, they know Jamats will turn the cheek and close their eyes to continue saying their prayers which enables them to continue their destructive path.

You have ignored the 1992 Farman I just mentioned a day or so ago, seek accountability and answerability which is what we are doing.

* Canada

@ Alnaz :You know it better.
On November 4th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Oct 15th 2010: An exceptional meeting of Hazar Imam and 2 defendants and 2 leaders.
An unusual perspective:

A Repeat episode of Scenario from Kurushetra and Writing of Geeta (apx 5000 years ago)

Last night I happen to hear a Hindu professor on T.V. regarding critical analysis of Characters of Arjun and Lord Krishna in reference to “Bhagvat Geeta”
Which is a very vital religious scripture for believers of Lord Krishna.
It is basically a very intellectual dialogue between lord Krishna and Arjun, his favorite devotee, friend and a cousin, which is widely used as a religious teaching for moral and ethical issues in life.
The dialogue took place in the center of the battlefield of Kurukshetra with 2 opposite armies present on either side and Arjun on the chariot with his charioteer being Lord Krishna in the middle visible by both the parties when Lord Krishna shows His “Noorani” swarup to Arjun who was so very much distraught by the situation of the war that was soon to begin
.
Arjun was in a dilemma and wanted to back off from war because he did not think it was appropriate for him to kill his teachers, elders and other family members who were in the opposite party to regain his own rights and kingdom and was asking Krishna who was his charioteer why should he fight? He did not care for kingdom and power. He wanted to stop everything.
He was full of emotions lost his courage.

Lord Krishna however persuaded him and encouraged him in a very exemplary and logical and thoughtful manner why it was so important for him to fight to protect the rights of entire state and defeat the cruelty and injustice. It was his ethical duty to fight even though it would mean a lot of deaths and devastation. It was important to end evil and establish truth and justice. (Geeta is the elaborate dialogue in the form of guidance) Arjun was the gem of a human being and was the most appropriate guy for the purpose.

It was basically a war of truth and lie, Justice vs. Injustice and good vs. Evil
The character of Krishna (8th Avatar Manifestation of Hazar Imam per our Pir Saderdin Ginanic philosophy) is very charismatic and extremely intelligent and logical. The perfect man of the time just likes of our Hazar Imam.

Arjun being a regular human being occasionally depicts multiple personality trait, basically an exceptional warrior very courageous and skilled but a family man with soft heart, a true devotee of Krishna hence was overwhelmed with fear, emotions, sorrow and inability to cope with the thought of loss of so many family members and a lot of others whom he loved. He wanted to back off at the nick of the time in the battlefield for fear of extreme destruction.

However Lord Krishna Pushed him in to the apparently tough and extremely difficult war of fighting the mighty and skilled army of cruel and corrupt Kauravas and they had an extremely violent and tough war but eventually Pandavas (Arjun) won because Lord was with them and established the victory of truth over false and Good over evil.

The meeting of Hazar Imam and Guidance in the legal setting between 2 opposite parties and Gray (The mean uncle of Duryodhan)
A very exceptional situation somehow mimics the settings of “Farmans of Geeta”
Nagib is the courageous and a very smart yet extremely devoted Momin of Mawla simulating the character of Arjun really encouraged by Mawla to continue the fight of good over evil?( Though not in clear words)( may be Nagib felt the words)
As long as Mawla is with him he will continue to succeed that is a guarantee.
May be Mawla appeared just to encourage and guide him for continuing his tough fight against the unjust and manipulative leaders?)
Only Nagib and Alnaz experienced the guidance in his “Noor” even in just few words and indicators.
It is beyond my ordinary intellect to understand the exact purpose and interpretation.

P.S.
With Global Center of Pluralism opened by our own Imam I thought it would not be totally inappropriate to talk about Hindu Scripture, since it is a part of our own history and Hazar Imam encourages us to obtain Knowledge even from China if found there.

* United States

Arjun's story did not end there..
On November 4th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

Arjun's and the Pandav's story did not end there. According to ismaili Pirs, the story is continued in the Granth "Boudh Avtar".

The Pandavs, even after victory, were told by the people and brahmins (the religious leadership) that they had done something awful and that they had to do an elaborate Yagn (Majlis) to get forgiven for their major sin of gaining victory over their elders. They felt remorse, and even if they had acted on the order of the Divine Manifestation (Krishna), they decided to give in and ask forgiveness for their actions.

Before the end of their Yagn, the Divine appeared in His next manifestation (Boudh Avtar) and told them that all their good deeds and the spiritual fruits of their struggle had gotten wiped out because it was a lapse of Faith and an insult that they had asked forgiveness for an action ordered by their Lord.

They recognized the next manifestation of the lord, got answers to some existential questions, and, in order to redeem themselves, they had to get all the people to scorn them by parading with a slaughtered cow...

It is indeed hard to follow Imam's command in front of the pressures of the world, even the Pandavs succumbed!

That's the point. Now that
On November 2nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

That's the point. Now that the Defendants know for sure that the Imam did not initiate this lawsuit and they have first hand instructions from The Imam Himself, they know exactly what to do. Their task is easy as they just have to follow what the Imam said. They will obviously not contradict what the Imam ordained.

The Imam gave an opportunity to those who made the mistake to initiate the lawsuit in His name to come out of this mess honourably but they are refusing so it will be at their own expense. There is a passage in the Book of Proverbs about those who dig their hole and fall in it...

Missed opportunity
On November 4th, 2010 Chai (not verified) says:

I'm just curious, the Nagib had a wonderful opportunity to know that for himself, but chose not to ask HH if he was indeed the real plaintiff... why? Would this have not put any doubts in his mind to rest?
I hope this matter gets resolved in a such a way that is fair for everyone.

* Canada

Opportunity NOT missed !!!!
On November 5th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

I think Nagib did the right thing. Why ask Hazar Imam if He is the real plaintiff. Let Him say so Himself.

The jamats were told by way of a terrible announcement that Nagib and his group were terrible nafarmanis - refused to obey two letters directly written to him by the Imam, one from His brother, prompting the Imam to bring a lawsuit as “a sad last resort”, an refused to accept an affirmation, and then two guys (Nagib and me) had the audacity to DEFEND against the Imam !!! Wow, when I made a statement to the Law Times that we would defend the lawsuit, I was inundated with telephone calls from so many, emails, etc., all because we were going to defend AGAINST the Imam. Please, everyone told me, stop making a mockery of yourself and make the Imam become angry at you, he will excommunicate you, etc., etc. It took an enormous amount of inner faith to remain firm in the belief that the Imam was not behind this despite the optics of it all.

Finally the Imam and his two murids (according to others, two satans) are finally face to face. Finally the Imam had an opportunity tell Nagib (and me) how angry He was with us and to tell us to cease and desist our continued defiance and nafarmani, and to correct our mistaken beliefs.

So what does the Imam do!! Tell us to stop doing all the nasty things that we are doing? Stop defying the Imam? Nothing of that sort at all. The Imam responds (it on the RECORD) "May I make a suggestion". And He ends the suggestion by saying that He would meet us again (outside the litigation) and deal with the issues. Why say that He would to meet us again (raised it Himself) if are so wrong and terrible murids, worthy of being excommunicated for disobeying Him? Why NOT tell us how wrong we are, etc. It would have taken a whopping one minute to tell us off and to leave. All of one minute. And Nagib made it clear that although legally he could have asked questions of the Imam, he left the Imam at His freewill to say whatever He desired.

And all he did is make a SUGGESTION. Think about it. A suggestion is not a command, or an order, or a direction at all. Isn’t that like saying: you are right, I will not tell you to stop; I will not tell you that you have wronged me; I will not say you are nafarmani; none of that.

He does not say that He wrote the letters and ASKS us to apologize to them. No, He REQUESTS us to withdraw the allegations of fraud, why REQUEST us to withdraw? Had He signed the letters would He not tell us that we were wrong and ask us to apologize. Nagib was determined to file a report with Paris police, and Hazar Imam just protected His officer from criminal sanctions. And the Imam just requests us to withdraw the allegations.

The Imam was given an opportunity to correct us. Instead the Imam validated everything we said in our defense, and distanced himself from all points asserted in the claim, the reply, and the forged letters, all of which have been mentioned by Bloglaw in his post.

It was not a missed opportunity, at all. Hazar Imam took the opportunity to acknowledge the sacrifices we have done to fight and to protect Him and the Jamats. The historical references to Arjun and Mawlana Krishna is apt. There are no words by which I can express what happened face to face with the Noor. The Noor was with us and embraced us. Shukr, is all I can say.

Yes, there are many who criticize us. Remember the other site also chastised the Imam for agreeing to allow the books to remain. Abiding by the Imam's wishes is not their criteria at all. It is what THEY think is right is what matters. For these types of people, our Pirs has said: Aap muarada jeev dozake pariya (the person who acts by his own desires will go to hell).

Those who know our history, long gone history, should know that all Prophets, all Pirs, all Imams have had “dhongi” surrounding them. Pir has said: Dhongi to anee anee hare vasee, te tu lute shahebji nu dhyaan re, moman a man am janjo re..... (pretenders surround the lord, and they distract Him...)

* Canada

@Alnaz Jiva
On November 6th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Excellent job!
It just feels so right!
Your post touched my soul.

* United States

No doubts in my mind!
On November 4th, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

All doubt in my mind are gone. I know what the Imam wants.

I had the possibility to act as a cunning examiner or act as as a devoted Ismaili in this audience and I decided to act as an Ismaili. is this not what you would have done? I am sure you would have done the same.

When Imam is in front of you, you always address him by starting all your sentences with the word "I beg your forgiveness" and you continue your sentence if He allows you. And when you are interrupted or do not understand, you do not say "what?", you say "sorry?" - That is our code of conduct since Centuries.

The Imam said everything He wanted to say and you just have to trust that what He has for the future is what is good for everyone. He knew there was no way for me to ask any questions as all the 5 questions I had in my mind were related to the letter which was snatched by Gray. Gray knew that as a devoted Ismaili I would not raise my voice or create a fuss in the presence of the Imam and he took advantage of this. So be it.

I felt that The Imam has to set the direction of the meeting so I kept quiet. Is that not what each one of you reading this post would have done in the same circumstances?

Was I expecting anyone not to follow what the Imam would say at that meeting? No, I thought all will respect the words of the Imam. Did I expect people to contradict The Imam and argue loudly against Him? No, honestly, I was not expecting this to happen. I made an error of judgment, assuming that all of Gray, SS and MM would have some respect for Imam's instructions.

Ultimately what count is that Imam Himself has confirmed that Alnaz and I were right. So I am going to act in accordance to the Instructions I got.

@ Nagib - Was Gray or Nagib the examiner ?
On November 5th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

When reading the transcript and letters instead of Nagib being the examiner it was Gray who conducted the entire examination on record and decided what goes on record ?

Is the disagreement in the consent order as summarised and analysed by Bloglaw? Or are there any other reasons ?

* United Arab Emirates
Can the whole dicovery process be disqualified?
On November 6th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

If according to law no one else can be present at the discovery meeting except the plaintiff and his lawyer and defendant and his lawyer except if agreed previously and if SS and MM were present there without the defendant's consent and if Gray exclusively decided what remains and what does not remain on the record without consulting the defendant and since this is explained to the judge by Nagib and Alnaz in their letters , How strong and objectionable is this issue?
Can judge rule that entire discovery was sabotaged by the Plaintiff's lawyer?
Then what happens?
Are we at square one?
Or consent judgment can still be acceptable?
Or the whole event is nullified and Hazar Imam might have to give specifically written clear affidavit or something?
Just trying to understand what are the future possibilities?
If a lawyer or Alnaz can explain

* United States

A Consent Judgment
On November 6th, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

The Consent Judgment as described by Hazar Imam could have happened 6 months ago, there is nothing in what the Imam said to the defendant that was not acceptable to them even 6 months ago. And whatever was not acceptable to SS and MM 6 months ago is still not acceptable to them today.

In the same manner, a 5 minutes meeting with the Imam could have happened any time in the last year or so. Maybe Imam had some reasons to "reward" the defendants with half hour instead.

The disagreement between SS
On November 5th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The disagreement between SS and Hazar Imam seems to be only on the point of "infringement". SS want the Consent to say there was Infringement and the book should be banned and Hazar Imam says the people can keep the book so there is no infringement.

Once this disagreement will disappear, the case will be resolve. At this point, it really boils down to a dispute between SS and Hazar Imam, a dispute over which the defendants have no control.

@ librarian Umed:How will that resolve?
On November 6th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I understood the first point agreed in the meeting was that defendants agreed to copyright infringement and to stop publishing the book.Or was it only stated that Hazar Imam has copyrights?
So how do we relate keeping the book with no infringement ?
Is that a legal reference? That if someone is allowed to keep the copied material than the charge is automatically nullified? Is recall a must?
I am not a lawyer may be some lawyer can explain .
May be Alnaz may explain

* United States

No there was no copyright infringement.
On November 6th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

No there was no copyright infringement.

The agreement was that Imam has Copyright of the Farman, something that defendant have never denied.

Did Hazar Imam told you that
On November 4th, 2010 AZ (not verified) says:

Did Hazar Imam told you that he did not initiate this lawsuit?

* United States

Yes he contradicted all the
On November 4th, 2010 Nagib (not verified) says:

Yes he contradicted all the lies which are in the Statement of Claim and their other documents. The Imam confirmed that He knew that Alnaz was not part of anything to do with the publication, he confirmed there was no problem with the web site, he confirmed that he understood that Mehmani of 1992 and confirmed he gave the instructions to continue at that time as they were looking for competent people even for translating the Farmans into French, Farsi etc.. He confirmed that whoever had the Golden Edition could keep it. He also confirmed that there was no editing of the Farmans. So yes, he clearly said everything we were saying since the very beginning.

Nagib

@umed : On record is only part of the conversation.
On November 3rd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

The guidance given to all 4 individuals was off record .
The court is only going to look at what is "on record."
All else will be heresay as far as I understand.

Although we understand Hazar Imam did not initiate the lawsuit ,he stll "showed up as the plaintiff."
He did not "on record" say
"I am not the plaintiff" Neither did he say "there is No forgery"
However he expreseed His 2 main wishes.
1. agree to the consent judgement
2.withdraw the allegations of forgery

So however much we all are convinced that Hazar Imam is not the real one to initiate the lawsuit and there was indeed forgery, He does not want the defendants to pursue the issue of criminality for reasons known to all.
So I still believe the defendants must just accept everything because that is what Imam wants.

* United States

Has the whole tape
On November 3rd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Has the whole tape conveniently disappeared? Does the botched transcript of the first 5 minutes nullify whatever instructions the Imam gave to all present during the next 25 minutes?

Thank you Alnaz for sharing the informations
On November 2nd, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Thank you again, but what is the next step then. We don't hear from the leader who initiated this mess. Is he hiding or is he twisting everthing because he lost the case. Congrats to you and to Nagib again, as we say diraj ja phool are sweet. Anyway, we continue to pray for both of you and your families. I think there is more to come and for the moment, the case is not over.

* Canada

@Umed
On November 2nd, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Umed. I am so happy that this "great site" will continue.

Nagib and Alnaz, please fulfil all the wishes of Our Beloved Hazar Imam. See how gracious He was to both of you. He loves His Murids. Shukar. Do not let any obstacles come your way, including people who want to attack you "verbally, Hazar Imam knows everything. May Allah shower His Blessings upon you and may Our Beloved Hazar Imam give you strength to overcome all the difficulties.

Umed, please post copy of letter sent to court by Alnaz, soon. May Allah shower His Blessings upon you and may Our Beloved Hazar Imam bless you with His Zaheri and Batuni Deedar. Keep up the excellent work you are doing. Thank you.

* Canada

IMAM SAYS LEADERS ARE NOT WORKING TOGETHER!
On November 1st, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

UNBELIEVABLE - Ismailies will be totally stunned. What does Imam mean when Imam says to Dr Sachedina in the presence of MM, Nagib and Alnaz “To SS Imam said, "it would be nice if we spoke with the same voice".

Mohammed Manji’s request and comments to Hazar Imam are totally inappropriate to say the least. “Just before the mulakat ended, MM says to MHI, Khudavind their web site is causing problems so It should be closed. MHI responds, "I am not familiar with the web issues so we can't deal with it", MM, "but Khudavind it is causing confusion in the Jamats because we have Ismail.org they have Ismaili.net and it is causing problems...". MHI cuts him off saying, "it would be nice if we spoke with one voice, why can't you work together?"

So Dr SS and MM have clearly not discussed this web issue with Hazar Imam before. Nor have they given a full report & recommendations to Hazar Imam of precisely how that website (& Web issues) are causing problems and confusion in the Jamat. BEFORE making such incomplete and incorrect comments or preparing a report they should have had meetings with Nagib, Alnaz other sites, to explain to them what are their concerns, problems and confusion and how they can all work together for the benefit of the JamaT and speak with one voice. Only after that and AFTER consultations with IIS, Scholars, AND LIF would they (Dr SS & MM) then make a report and recommendations for MHI to consider. Does MM/SS not know the protol of how the consultation and institutional process works and should be followed in seeking specific guidance of such magnitude? This is CLEARLY set out in Farmans, constitution, related rules policies and criteria documentation including related guidance from Hazar Imam specifically on them.

After the meeting Imam leaves on his own. Imam CLEARLY did not discuss with Dr SS, MM or Mr Gray what directions he was going to give in that meeting. If they knew they would not be disagreeing or discussion them with MHI. Imam did not consult or discuss with them in advance is for a very good reason. Imam’s speech on the same evening has many clues.

Dr SS and MM. I hope and pray that you will both NOW work together, speak with one voice and file the consent order as directed by Hazar Imam without any more delay. Thereafter INTERNALLY everyone will help in working together in accordance with the wishes of Hazar Imam. If you then wish I (or others) will be happy to assist the present institutional team leaders in preparing an objective comprehensive report research and recommendations on all Web issues of concern, working together with the help and support of the related websites, Nagib, Alnaz, institutional team leaders, and the Editors of this & Vancouverite sites etc. None of whom I know persoanlly. I am sure there are many who will also be happy to assist and support. It maybe this has been done or is in progress. I seem to recall in an earlier post or in the court documents was offered by Nagib.

* United Kingdom

@ Bloglaw re: above post of November 1st
On November 2nd, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ameen to your prayers in the last paragraph, brother Bloglaw.
As for your last line, in one of the cross examinations, if I recall correctly, it was confirmed by Mr. Sachedina (speaking about dissemination of information via the web) that Nagib's site was part of the solution (not part of the problem). How it suddenly became a problem is surprising...The domain ismaili.net has existed for over a decade...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Keeping books!!!
On November 1st, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Although MHI had said in his first sentence that undistributed books to be given to ITREB, I asked MHI for permission to ask for clarification, he says "yes", so I ask, khudavind I am asking this for clarification, did I understand correctly that all those books that have been distributed and given away, they can be kept by the recipients and not returned", MHI responds, yes that is what I meant." SS at this moment intervenes, "we can make an announcement in the jamatkhanas for the books to be returned by all to tarika boards, if they wish...", MHI replied to him that, "it would be nice if we spoke with the same voice". Nagib asks, khudavind I have 200 books remaining in Kenya, can I give them to ITREB in Nairobi, MHI says, yes you can.

* Canada

@ Alnaz re: above post of Nov.1st (Keeping books)
On November 2nd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thanks a million for all these details, Alnaz ! It means so much!
And I hope that Itreb in Naïrobi can put the 200 books to use. Insh'Allah.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Books To ITREB vs IIS?
On November 2nd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Didn't "The letters" say the unsold books must be returned to IIS?
Hazar Imam in person said to return to ITREB.
IIS is full of non Ismailis.
Why should farman books be returned to IIS?
This validates the letters were not written by Hazar Imam.

* United States

Good observation....
On November 2nd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Not only the letters but also the announcement made in JKs also said to return the books to IIS. These and other such things did not make sense at all and that is why we had confidence that MHI was not the author of the information that was being forced on us.

I admire your and other murid's excellent analyses of the various issues arising in this case.

* Canada

LEADERS PLEASE HELP TO END THIS NOW
On November 2nd, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Leaders & LIF must now be proactive snd speak amongst themselves and together with Dr SS & MM consider and appoint 2-3 other objective leaders to specifically and as priority file the consent order as directed by Hazar Imam in collaboration with Nagib and Alnaz. Leaders please please help to end this NOW for all our sakes. thank you.

* United Arab Emirates

@ Momin
On November 3rd, 2010 An ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

There are few leaders of the caliber of Dr.SS – particularly like chairman of LIF. I feel he should try to resolve this issue. He is likely to be successful. and in that case, the whole Jamat would be grateful to him. Mr. chairman, would you please try at least once.

Which leaders are referring to????
On November 2nd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Despite MHI's efforts (eg oath of office) to have EACH officer defend and protect the Constitution, these officers defend and protect each other.

Who are you referring to in your post. Obviously when ALL officers kiss their superiors feet (betraying their oath and the imam in the process) so does anyone know of ONE officer who is living by his oath of office.

I have been involved in these issues since 1987, and I have not come across ONE officer who even knew of his oath of office and who had read the constitution he swore to defend and protect.

All alwaezes and mukhis also have switched loyalties - no mukhi today represents the Imam, ALL represent ITREB, some also represent councils and IIS, and alwaezes also no longer dedicate themselves to Jamats interests but they also kiss itreb's feet.

Not one in my experience. Don't mistake hard work, long hours, running around sweating as representing the imam or defending the constitution.

Ismailis today do not say their Dua ad approved by Imams, don't listen to the Imam's farmans (they are fed manipulated farmans), they are led by officers who don't represent or do what the Imam wants.

Looking at our history, the state of today's jamat is same as the Jamats during (one example) Mawlana Jafer Sadiq's time who were then transferred to Musa Kazim's camp.

* Canada

Mohamed Manji argues against this site!!!
On November 1st, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Just before the mulakat ended, MM says to MHI, khudavind their web site is causing problems so It should be closed. MHI responds, "I am not familiar with the web issues so we can't deal with it", MM, "but khudavind it is causing confusion in the Jamats because we have Ismail.org they have Ismaili.net and it is causing problems...". MHI cuts him off saying, "it would be nice if we spoke with one voice, why can't you work together?"

* Canada

@ Alnaz re: above post of Nov.1st
On November 2nd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for sharing this and other precious information with us, Alnaz, it means so much to us.
May you and Nagib continue to want to do His will at all cost. Ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Shukhar Mawla!
On November 2nd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

I am happy this website will continue.
It is becoming somehow apparent to me that the lawsuit infact was initiated by the leaders and Hazar Imam really did not want to get involved but he obliged the leaders for the sake of peace in global jamat and maintaining the integrity of the institution he physically came to attempt an amicable solution but the leaders want to still hijack Mawla's grace and continue playing their own game?

You can reap the benefits of sweet fruits as much as you want of a fertile tree but it is not a good idea to even pull the roots of the same tree.You might end up losing the valuable and vital sustenance.

Leaders are playing with the fire.
Hazar Imam Is gracefully out of His infinite mercy complying with their demands and condition but it may not continue too long. They must remain warned.
When Imam's divinity will come into action ( Sudarshan Chakra of Krishna avtar) there will be no telling.
Alnaz and Nagib also must absolutely follow whatever they promised Mawla .They must remain very vigilant also and not fall in the hands of Shaitan by any pride or ego.
They must constantly reflect on each and every word that Mawla has uttered in the meeting
They must absolutely remain humble and act in perfect accordance with Hazar Imam's guidance.
Do not let your Ibadat Bandagi lapse , Which is your biggest strength and source of Noor for the right direction.
Looks like the story will continue.I hope for the better.

* United States

MOST SHOCKING REVELATION SO FAR !
On November 1st, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

MOST AMAZING AND SHOCKING.REVELATION SO FAR. WHERE IS THE HUMILITY, THE LOVE AND UNCONDITIONAL THE ACCEPTANCE OF AUTHORITY OF HAZAR IMAM

I AM SURE EVERY ISMAILI MURID WOULD HAVE SAID AND EXPECT LEADERS TO SAY;

AMEEN KHUDAVAND, WHAT EVER IS YOUR WISH. WE WILL ALL WORK TOGETHER, AND WE WILL DO EXACTLY AS YOU HAVE DIRECTED. MAWLA PLEASE FORGIVE US AND WE ALL PLEDGE AND ASSURE YOU AGAIN THAT WE WILL DO OUR VERY BEST TO REMAIN UNITED IN SERVING YOU AND THE JAMAT SELFLESSLY AND PROACTIVELY. PLEASE FORGIVE ALL OUR SHORTCOMINGS AND BLESS US WITH THE WILL AND THE STRENGHT TO CARRY OUT OUR RESPONSIBILITES. AMEEN KHUDAVAND.

IF NOT DONE, THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN SAID BY NAGIB AND ALNAZ

SS and MM in Imam's presence!!! On October 31st, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:
At the meeting both of these men refused to accept the Imam's words, and argued against the Imam's stated positions. To SS the Imam said, "it would be nice if we spoke with the same voice", and to MM the Imam said, "it would be nice if we spoke with one voice. Why can't you work together?"

.

* United Arab Emirates

Mulakat with Imam on Oct 15
On November 1st, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Mawlana Hazar Imam came in at 10:40 a.m. The Mulakat took place on 38th floor of Royal Bank Towers (the building with Golden glass on downtown Toronto) at the lawyers boardroom.

I sent a letter to the court today setting out in greater details of what happened at the Mulakat. I will send a copy to this site and I trust that Umed can post it for all to read, and all will know what MHI spoke about. As you all know only one sentence spoken by MHI is on the record, and about 20 minutes of information was given by MHI, He was very gracious with us, I was very nervous and just did not know what to expect at the Mulakat, but with so many Murids praying for us, MHI was so gracious with us, looked at us with so much affection, affection I do not feel worthy of and am ever so grateful and offer my Shukr.

One thing I did not mention in that is that as MHI was preparing to leave the room, I presented a box of chocolates to MHI as Mehmani, “Khudawind, we would like to present this Mehmani on behalf of all those who have supported the book and their family" and Hazar Imam made a gesture of blessing toward the box lying on the table and said “I accept.”

I raised the box to give to him and Hazar Imam leaned toward the box and said, it’s not appropriate for me to take it from you in the law office, but I accept it, if you give it to me outside I will take it from you, but i accept it. Then he smiled, put his hand on his heart and said “Khuda Hafiz” once looking to Nagib, once again "Khuda Hafiz" looking at me. Of course I did not follow the Imam outside but took the box and placed it as Mehmani in JK.

He spoke of His Farmans, Farmans of previous Imams, Ginans, Mehmani of 1992, Dais ('when Farmans are changed, Da'is have got hurt'), and said He annotates His Farmans and that Farmans cannot be changed.

All we can say is Shukr.

* Canada

@Alnaz:Mubarak! Mubarak to Alnaz and Nagib.
On November 2nd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Thank you so very much for sharing your moments of Hazar Imam's grace.Alnaz, pehaps before you might have been angry for getting drawn in to this lawsuit but buddy I think it was a miracle that for no reason you got dragged in.
What does "Annotates his farman " mean?

* United States

Angry !!!!
On November 2nd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Frankly, I was never angry at being sued, as I was certain all along that MHI was not behind the litigation. I have been involved with the leaders since 1977, and specially active with them after 1987, and KNOW how manipulative they are, and how they ignore the Imam's directions. MM and I had a go at the very issue in 1987 and I KNOW that even then he was not at all concerned with following the Imam's directions.

So I was not at all surprised that he argued against the Imam's stated position. The question I pose: IF they can argue against the Imam in the Imam's face, what are not capable of doing behind His back.

MHI has asked us to seek accountability, answerability and competence. It is all of our duties to become active and seek answers from them.

So my question really is, many murids make comments here and elsewhere, but have these murids sought answers directly from them in accordance with the Imam's Farmans? For those who have done so, mubarakis to them, if not, why not, I ask.

* Canada

@ Alnaz re: above post of Nov. 2nd ("Angry!!!")
On November 2nd, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
First of all, Mubaraki to you, brother Alnaz, and thank you for sharing with us. And I cannot agree more with your last paragraph! It is because of the laxism and the silence of the jamat that such terrible things as this lawsuit can happen, and even more terrible, we give our consent to those things by remaining silent...
I hope your message will awaken those of us who are not awake yet.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Annotates
On November 2nd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Some definitions are as follows: a critical or explanatory note or body of notes added to a text. a note added in explanation, etc, esp of some literary work.

My understanding is this. Take the example of the comments made by the Imam at London's GJ Farman re: leaders. He did not say what and why the comments were made except to give that message. Annotate would mean that He makes notes on why he said that, perhaps also whom He said to, etc. so as the future (or even the present) generation can understand why something was said.

It is the act of adding commentary to the Farmans as an explanation, background, etc. He said that it could be produced if we wanted. I am so exited and am waiting to humbly ask for these annotated Farmans as it would help us understand His Farmans.

* Canada

Clarification
On October 31st, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

A week or so before a meeting, a post was posted in my name which referred to me in third person, and a reader had replied that it was sheer manipulation, because it appeared in my name and it appeared as I am writing 'Alnaz this and Alnaz that. I never responded to that as I became very busy.

Normally I dont read these comments, other than occasionally, however my law clerk reads them most of the time. Often she would get upset at comments which appeared to her as misinterpretation or misunderstanding of the facts, that day she decided to post a response, typed up the post in her word processing and asked me to post it, and by mistake I wrote my name as the writer instead of hers.

Sorry to post the clarification weeks after.

Alnaz

* Canada

PROPAGANDA OR DIS-INFORMATION VS DIFFERENCES OF OPINION OR DISTO
On October 30th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Response by Bloglaw

Mr Shivji, You say do not understand why our Institution (Leaders) did not act earlier against the defendants. You refer to them as a splinter group ? With respect why and on precisely what facts and information/misinformation do you conclude that they are a splinter group ? You know from reading the lawsuit what happened in the last 20 years including meetings and that Nagib by agreement with the leaders in question spent 2 days at IIS ? Earlier you said you could not get a copy of the constitution and have not read the last constitution. Also you accept access to Farmans is limited and you cannot get access to all Farman’s in JK’s or at ITREB offices.

Conclusions and opinions will invariably be inaccurate & incomplete when based on incomplete or inaccurate information or knowledge.

In the lawsuit it is stated that Farmans are available in all JK’s. You are now questioning leaders by asking a series of questions using this forum. We must also ask what have we done regarding some of the issues we were aware of?. You are also understandably giving your take on issues highlighted by the lawsuit. Your views and conclusions are based on your understanding & your interpretation of information or interpretations of others.

We do not know precisely what transpired in the 30 minute meeting so far (FACT). We know a part of what transpired from the Heritage site according to them. We also know a part from the Vancouveritte site regarding a demand for accounting & number of books (according to them). The fact is we do not know all or all the correct facts. We are all relying on limited information & knowledge. Leaders have not shared historically and have not in this case. Defendants have shared more and hopefully will share what are the precise differences between their understanding and that of Mr Gray/Dr SS and MM. Maybe there are compelling reasons for this.

I now come to the question by Ali on malicious propaganda and your response about the human mind and its ability to twist information and facts. I would add that information is also used for spin, and to drive, causes, products, services, and agendas motivated by self interest.

Journalists and reporters, reporting news, has been revolutionized and changed forever. What does Hazar Imam say about this. I would recommend that you also listen to the interview after this speech on 15th October, and the workshop of the solutions.

" ..the way we communicate with one another has been revolutionized. But more communication has not meant more cooperation. More information has also meant more mis-information – more superficial snapshots, more shards of stray information taken out of context. And it has also meant more willful dis-information – not only differences of opinion, but distortions of fact. A wide-open internet allows divisive information to travel as far and as fast as reliable information. There are virtually no barriers to entry – and anyone, responsible or irresponsible – can play the game. New digital technologies mean more access, but they also mean less accountability.

The advent of the internet and the omnipresence of mobile telephony seem to promise so much! But so, once, did television and radio – and the telegraph before that – and, even earlier, the invention of the printing press. Yet each of these breakthroughs, while connecting so many, was also used to widen cultural gulfs.

Technologies, after all, are merely instruments – they can be used for good or ill. How we use them will depend – in every age and in every culture – not on what sits on our desktops, but on what is in our heads – and in our hearts.”

I hope we will know the facts which Editor of Vancouveritte expects to get in a few days which will also hopefully clarify

1 Precisely what transpired and what was agreed in the 30 minute meeting

2 What is the precise difference and misunderstanding between what Alnaz/Nagib are saying/signed, and what Mr Gray/Dr SS/MM are saying (which they will have presented to MHI for guidance and approval)

3 Reason for the delay in implementing directions given by MHI (over 2 weeks so far

* United Kingdom

Mowla's objective through the book
On October 30th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

You are right Bloglaw, there is the spirit of the seva that Nagib and Alnaz rendered to the ismaili Jamat and the Imam and there is the letter or the law of SS who is offuscated that this should have done by him and his team.

I think Mowla is interested in results and sincerity. Are our youth living their lives according to the full knowledge of what Mowla said in His Farmans.

The first step has been done by Nagib and Alnaz. Together, as Mowla said , they should continue in this lofty and exciting path of being by the side of the Imam, sharing His message and Farmans to build a vibrant community for generations to come. This was the work of Pir Shams, ..etc. And Mowla was by them and always close to them in this work.

Some people benefit from physical proximity with the Imam, some have His "Companionship on High", even in this world.

Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah said in His Memoirs:

"Everyone should strive his best to see that this spark be not extinguished but rather developed to that full "Companionship-on-High" which was the vision expressed in the last words of the Prophet on his deathbed, the vision of that blessed state which he saw clearly awaiting him. "

* Canada

WHAT'S THE "BEHD"?
On October 29th, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

In the spirit of pluralism, here is one way to understand the events of the past few months

1. Being Akle-qul, the Imam is always all-knowing.

2. Despite being aware of the confusion in the minds of Tajdin and Jiwa about the Mehmani, the Imam did not grant them a short personal meeting, choosing instead to leave controversy as to the authorship of the lawsuit. What was the “Bedh- the hidden Reason? Only Mowla knows. But since we have also been given an aql, it is our duty to seek out the answers. (all religions are a path through the confusion). Many people claim that the Lord of the Universe created this lawsuit so that ordinary Ismailis could learn to question. In other words, it got them THINKING. It was the deliberate intention of Mowla to get the community to wake up and take responsibility for its own affairs. Such people say that this explanation is the only one in line with our Ismaili belief about the Imam and His divinity.

* Seychelles

I think the case will continue.
On October 31st, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

eji utar kha(n)dd maa(n)he shaah nee jot jaagevaa,
shaah naa purakh meele parketaa ho jirebhaai..................1

O momins: When the Lord's light shines in the North continent,
then complete recognition(and understanding) of the Lord is
attained. O dear brother

I think plenty more revelations and facts are going to happen.
This is just the very very beginning leading to Zahurat or something like that.

Hazar Imam actually may be did not plan on concluding it but to guide his 2 momins he appeared.
Otherwise how could case still not have concluded?
What is the existence of the will of these 2 murids ( Like "2 ablas" without even their lawyers?) in front of "Mawla's will?"
The omniscient and omnipotent , The Lord.

He had to come and say just one sentence" There IS NO forgery .I am the plaintiff period."
Nagib and Alnaz had no other choice but to agree to everything put forward by lawyers and leaders.
There was no need for him to urge these defendants to withdraw allegations of forgery.
.
If he was angry with these 2 crazy guys why would he give guidance for 25 minutes and give smiles?
He knows to walk away ignoring them wholesale!!
I have seen him doing it to even so called "important leaders".
Only He knows the "Bhed"

Just a momin's speculation!
Real things will be more clear after the defendants and leaders reveal exactly what transpired in the meeting
Hope fully we will have some anouncement by Chandrat.

* United States

@ Abdul re: above post (Oct. 29)
On October 30th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Could you possibly explain what you mean by the words "...the confusion about the Mehmani..." in your sentence "Despite being aware of the confusion in the minds of Tajdin and Jiwa about the Mehmani..." ? What were they confused about and how ? I would be most grateful to you indeed if you could explain so that I am not confused. Sorry for the pun...
Thank you in advance.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Behd
On October 30th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Ya Ali brother Abdul,

I think for so many years, in the mind of Nagib and Alnaz, there is pure clarity, vision and willingness as fidais to carry out one of the most important work in our ismaili Tariqa: to convey to the Jamat the word of the Imam and to preserve them for our future generations. They believed that, as our grandfathers did, that if Mowla says it is night, and our eyes see it is day, Mowla's word is the truth.

And they were willing to do so with the best of their ability, with authenticity, with love and devotion. It is so obvious through their affidavits.

On the contrary, on the other side, there is no willingness to discuss, they hide behind their lawyer and their position of power. They did everything to prevent Nagib and Alnaz not to meet Mowla, in my opinion something was fishy there.. There should have been mediation right from the start and this thing dragged for too long. They should look at the benefit of the Jamat and not that they might loose control and face. They should be happy that someone in the Jamat takes on himself to do such sewa. They should find ways to talk to each other, to find common grounds, that's what our Imam has always taught us to conduct ourselves.

You are right, He has given Aql and therefore freedom to do right or wrong.

Mowlana Hazar Imam said to the Agakhan Foundation in 1992:

"This is a time of new freedoms, but it is also one in which new choices must be made wisely. In exercising freedom and making choices, our institutions must be guided, as they have been in the past by the teachings of Prophet Muhammad (Peace of Allah be upon Him) and the tradition of our Tariqah, which is the tradition of Hazrat Ali: a thinking Islam and spiritual Islam: an Islam that teaches compassion, tolerance and the dignity of man, Allah’s noblest creation."

* Canada

GOOD INTELLIGENCE & definition of FARMAN BY IMAM
On October 29th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

News Editor Vancouveritte October 28, 2010 - We are picking up some very good intelligence. We are hearing that there is a hold-up about accounting for some of the books. We are also told that the defendants are not very happy looking people and they are complaining about some of the accounting being demanded. So what we think is going to happen is that costs are being worked out and that may determine how much they will be asked to pay in punitive or exemplary damages. What may also happen is a demand for exact number of books and where they went. I hope this helps explain why there appears to be a slight delay PanjeBhai.

REPLY BY BLOGLAW - 29 October 2010

Thank you for sharing. There should be no reason or delay in the defendants accounting for some of the books. If this is the only issue remaining then it seems this case will be settled soon. Or do you mean Mr Gray, Dr Sachedina and M Manji are demanding a financial accounting of books ? I wonder why it has taken 2 weeks. Do you know how many books? and what accounting is being demanded and if that was a part of the directions from the MHI in the 30 minute meeting. Thanks again.

I hope the consent order is filed urgently by the Defendants with Mr Gray and Dr Sachedina and M Manji. Any remaining issues can be resolved internally.

I hope ALL Murids and Leaders will agree that there has been and can be some internal and external confusion inconsistency or misunderstanding in the context of the our constitution, the lawsuit, Farmans, and copyright.

Why are for example different definitions of Farman (and Talika) in the lawsuit, in the Press, in IIS and by Leaders when questioned? Imam has defined it clearly in the constitution. IIS states a Farman is “……In the Shi‘i Ismaili context, IT REFERS to an address by the Imam to his community.” I do not know if the constitution has been ever read with Farmans as directed in the constitution? I hope such inconsistencies will be addressed by the leadership who are aware.

Relevant quotes from the constitution & IIS (emphasis supplied in capitals).

"Farman" ANY PRONOUNCEMENT, DIRECTION, ORDER OR RULING MADE OR GIVEN by Mawlana Hazar Imam.

1.1 Mawlana Hazar Imam has inherent right and absolute and unfettered power and authority OVER AND IN RESPECT OF ALL RELIGIOUS AND JAMATI MATTERS OF THE ISMAILIS.

2.6 This Constitution SHALL BE READ WITH ANY FARMAN made after the date hereof, and in the event of conflict, the said Farman shall prevail over this Constitution, and A LATER FARMAN SHALL PREVAIL OVER AN EARLIER.

3.2 This Constitution shall apply to Ismailis worldwide, SUBJECT ONLY TO THE OVERRIDING EFFECT OF ANY APPLICABLE LAWS OF THE LAND of abode of any Ismaili TO THE EXTENT OF ANY INCONSISTENCY.

Full text of IIS definition of Farman :”From Persian lit. command, authority, will, permission. At the time of the Ottomans, the word ‘farman’ was used in Ottoman Turkish to denote any order of the Ottoman Sultans. In the 15th century CE, the word was first used in its strict sense of a written document. Typically, such documents would open with an invocation to God and were addressed to a governmental official in the capital cities or in the provinces as well as to dependent/client rulers. In the Shi‘i Ismaili context, it refers to an address by the Imam to his community”

* United Kingdom

WE SHOULD ALL IN HUMBLENESS AND HUMILITY ASK OURSELVES WHAT WE W
On October 28th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YA-ALI-MADAT, LIBRARIAN UMED! The way it appears, all contributors expressed their thoughts and comments in their selective websites. These websites accepted the thoughts and comments in manner it felt suitable to them! Obviously, the court case divided the commentators into two camps – FOR AND AGAINST. Those who felt that they should be heard in however in any interpretation made their views very explicit and blunt. In interim, though no body meant to hurt anyone, the harm was done! It was not done to the individuals but to the Ismaili Muslim Community and the Ismaili Muslim Imamat!

The criticism and appreciation came from both the camps because everybody wanted to be winners and be heard! It was not a championship, competition, and rivalry! It was the interpretation and understanding! This dragged the human failings to expose emotion, sentiment, and fervour passion. These have continued for many months but we all are still waiting for an outcome or an end! This court case will take it natural course to bring about an end. Then what?? Will it bring reconciliation? Will it bring the Ismaili Muslim Community together? Will it create the division in Ismaili Muslim Community?

Our bayat (allegiance) to Noor Mawlana Shah Karim Al-Husseini Hazar Imam is tested to an extent that many interpretations came about our material and spiritual life. It did become a vicious circle! Never-ending! In my humble opinion our Imam was subjected to pain and hurt but He did not make it known to any body! Consequently, no matter for which camp we expressed our comments and thoughts, we should all in humbleness and humility ask ourselves what we want? With my good prayers for the Jamat; Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

IMAM IS HAPPY WHEN WE ARE HAPPY
On October 28th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

You are right. I believe everyone knows what Hazar Imans wants us all to do. imam gave us an unprecedented opportunity to discuss amongst ourselves all the issues highlighted in this lawsuit. Imam instead of one minute gave directions for 30 minutes to the leaders and defendants to settle the lawsuit. I pray everyone in everything we are doing will do everything bearing in mind the Farmans and pronouncements of Hazar Imam Ameen.

* United Arab Emirates

Patience Sabr
On October 28th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

Allow me to pray that Almighty Allah grant us all Patience and Sabr, while we await the judgement in this Legal case.
Speculating , opinionating , slandering , accusing , name calling ..etc etc is a form of NINDA and harmful to us all.
WE .and I do mean we must all TRUST our beloved Mowla , Imam-e-Zaman and must pray for BEST outcome for all. Ameen

* Canada

réponse à M Nato
On October 27th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Encore une fois, vos commentaires sont pertinents et très intéressants. Je ne les traduirais pas en anglais car je pense que la traduction ne va pas vraiment réfléter ce que vous dites. En effet, que nous réserve l'avenir avec tout ce dénouement. Est ce que l'attitude des leaders va changer envers le Jamat. What about the futur, will the leaders change their behavior towards the Jamat? What's going to happen now, we have no news at all about the consent. Knowing SS, I am sure he is trying to add things he wants to be signed and probably try to change completely what Mowla said. The most important thing is the book, we have His Farmans, shukar, those who bought the book are very lucky because it's a gem, and Sultan Mohammed Shad said, those who understand know that they have moti (pearl) when I do a Farman. So please keep it, read it, understand what Mowla says to us. It's the straight path.
I hope that Tariqa will make the Farmans available now to the jamats, instead of keeping them hidden. Why our council, leaders and tariqa are so protective about the farmans, why the access is forbidden, how our youngsters can benefit of Mowla's guidance if they don't have access to them,it's been like that for years and years, I hope that things will change now. We are not creasy people, we will not give to non-ismailis. During Golden Jubilee, we did not hear the farman made in French to Madagascar because other communities knew what Mowla talked about. What nonsense. In 2003, same thing SS thought that the Farmans were not politically correct, so we have never heard about Madagascar's Farman, but thanks to the defendants, we got them. I hope that the institutions will be more flexible and will listen to the jamat and will be near the jamat not out of the world like they are now.

* Canada

What does consent judgement mean
On October 27th, 2010 knowledge (not verified) says:

Does it mean that once all the parties agree to it the court will decide whether only Mowlana Hazar Imam has to copyright o the Farmans. And if this happens wouldn't it be extremely difficult to get hold of any farmans. The policing by ITREB is as it is so tight so I wonder what's going to happen if the court decides that only MHI has the copyright to it.

I think all those who have got Farmans at home should hold on tight to their books as we never know what the judge is going to decide.

* United Kingdom

copyright
On October 27th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

In my logic, a copyright would be to reinforce that someone does not make a business out of a product unless he pays some royalties or fees associated with. Examples that come to my mind are songs, movies ..etc.

Nobody is going to come to your home to check your personnal life.

Moreover, time and again Mowla tells us to read, listen, discuss His Farmans, even with our grandchildren! I am sure He expects us to have them on hand with us to do so.......

And I believe that He said that we should keep the copy or copies of Golden KIZ that we have at home. How divine and generous! He has dedicated His life to guide us and He is doing it through His Farmans and other things.

Mowla said in Usul-eDin:

"Do not think that I make Farmans for no reason. Read, listen to and think upon My Farmans..
I have made many Farmans to you, but they will only do you good if you act according to them. If you put My Farmans into practice, then I shall consider that I have made Farmans until morning."

Thank you Mowla for all those beautiful Farmans!!!!!!!

* Canada

No the Court will only
On October 27th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

No the Court will only confirm what the parties have agreed upon. This is why it is called Consent Judgment.

HAS DRAFT CONSENT BEEN PLACED BEFORE IMAM E ZAMAN?
On October 27th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

After the meeting on 15th October 2010, did Mr Gray, Dr SS and MM sat down together with Alnaz and Nagib to discuss and agree a joint consent order. I wonder what happened and what was discussed after Imam e Zaman left the meeting, or did they all leave the meeting together. 2 weeks have gone by and a joint consent is not filed. It seems Alnaz and or Nagib have signed and sent their draft to Mr Gray, who will have passed it to Dr SS/MM and or Hazar Imam with comments for approval and instructions.

Globally directions from especially THE Top Leader are followed and implimented AS A PRIORITY by leaders down the line . Maybe this has been done in this case and Mr Gray is waiting for approval or instructions from Imam e Zaman.

* United Arab Emirates

Golden Jubilee Farmans Madagascar
On October 26th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

All Golden Jubilee Farmans are available in Jamatkhana in 7 languages: English, French, Gujrati, Urdu (Hindi), Farsi, Portuguese and Arabic. But I wonder why only the Madagascar one is missing. SS doen't like the Jamat of Madagascar? Or is it again because he thinks "Mowla thinks in French and talks in English" therefore He makes mistakes?

When one reads Farmans recently made in Madagascar (Thanks to Golden Kiz!), we can see that Mowla has a great vision for the future of Madagascar!

* Canada

@all
On October 26th, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

Les leçons de ce « lawsuit »

Maintenant que les tensions se sont apaisées, que tous, les uns et les autres, frères et sœurs malgré nos différentes appréciations sur le sujet, nous sommes tous convaincus et pouvons même clamer très fort que Mowla Bapa, dans Sa grande Miséricorde et Clémence, en tant que Guide Spirituel de tous Ses Murids a agi avec tendresse, fermeté et amour. Et Son Geste relève pour moi d’inspiration divine !
C’est un soulagement, un réconfort moral et intellectuel de voir la fin de ce procédure judiciaire ! Il nous faut cependant tirer quelques enseignements positifs. Il est temps, sans parler vraiment du « temps des ruptures » que le Leadership révise sérieusement sa façon de communiquer avec le Jamat et prenne en considération toutes les sensibilités, les besoins et les exigences du Jamat, les aspirations , surtout des jeunes générations à travers le monde ! La méritocratie, la diversité, le pluralisme, la tolérance que Mowla Bapa prône de tous Ses vœux sont des concepts que le Leadership doit s’approprier en urgence ! L’exemple doit venir du leadership pour que le Jamat mette réellement leur confiance sur ce Leadership, que les jeunes générations soient à l’écoute ! C’est seulement ainsi qu’une dynamique intergénérationnelle va se créer et que les projets, les aspirations, les Hidayats de Mowlana Hazar Imam seront concrétisés ! Il est temps d’arrêter les « jeux politiques », les » chaises musicales », le monopole des postes par « esprit de clans », les « corporate leaders », effectivement « no bureaucracy, no greed, no bashing,no bad words.. ; »
A l’ère de l’internet, beaucoup de choses ne sont plus comme avant ! La preuve, la densité, le nombre, le foisonnement des débats, idées, questionnements des internautes que Heritage Site Web a intelligemment dirigés ! Bravo et mille mercis pour ce courage. Continuez ce magnifique travail sans être tenté de débordements. Félicitations à Umed !

Le leadership n’a pas le monopole de notre Foi ! Nous sommes tous liés, un lien indéfectible et eternel par le Bhayat à notre Imam du Temps Présent ! Le Leadership n’a pas à porter de jugements hâtifs et infondés sur les uns et les autres. Souvent, ils procèdent par mesquinerie, hypocrisie envers ceux qui émettent des avis contraires à eux, même constructifs sont rejetés, oubliés et considérés comme des anti-conseils, anti Hazar Imam ! Ils n’hésitent pas à discréditer ces nombreuses bonnes volontés dans le Jamat, allant jusqu’à dire qu’il ne faut pas côtoyer, ni se lier d’amitié avec un tel si vous souhaitez un poste dans les Institutions !!! Eh oui, c’est du vécu dans nos juridictions en France !

Notre Foi est d’essence ésotérique, la quête spirituelle et individuelle ! Aussi, « we are not to judje anyone’s faith ». Mowla Bapa ne nous pas dit à Londres en 1994 « qu’il ne faut se lever malheureux du Bandgi….et que « ceux qui réussissent dans cette voie sont particulièrement proches de Moi ! »…. Alors le Leadership, allez chercher l’inspiration spirituelle de vos comportements d’abord avec l’Imam lui-même, qui a mis toute Sa confiance sur vous et avec votre Jamat qui ne demande qu’à vous écouter, à vous suivre. Mais cessez de croire que par ce que vous faites partie du Leadership que vous vous octroyez des droits et des jugements sur les Murids et les condamner sans appel car ils ne sont pas d’accord avec votre façon de faire !
Cette forme de rupture est urgente ! L’élite intellectuelle ismailie, très motivée par une éthique de Foi proclamée par Mowlana Hazar Imam vous sera très reconnaissante !

Il nous faut distinguer la pratique individuelle de notre Foi et nos engagements dans le Jamat, dans notre vie de tous les jours, dans la famille, le pays où nous vivons, dans nos relations professionnelles, dans nos actions humanitaires. Mowla Bapa nous a dit d’être les ambassadeurs de l’Islam dans nos choix de vie, honnête, compatissant, généreux et tolérant ! Je vous assure que les Farmans de 1994 à Londres m’ont vraiment interpellés ! Cette recherche d’une foi de conviction que Mowla nous convie à découvrir, à vivre ! pas de superficialité, de convenances sociales dans cette quête, dans cette Rencontre avec lui…. Ce fut très réconfortant, et c’est ainsi que j’ai échappé en quelque sorte à l’emprise mesquine des dirigeants et ne pas avoir donné d’importance aux jeux « politiques », hypocrites des dirigeants de notre Institution.
Il nous faut toujours se référer aux Farmans de Mowla, les lire aisément, les avoir chez soi, être présent aux rendez vous qu’Il nous accorde et agir selon Ses vœux et Ses Hidayats que l’on peut redécouvrir, comprendre durant cette quête individuelle !

Durant les différents Darbars du Golden Jubilee, Mowla Bapa nous a tracé notre feuille de route, Ses vœux, Ses aspirations sur la grande famille Ismailie unie, solidaire (TKN), l’éradication de la grande pauvreté et œuvrer pour la dignité des Seniors. Ces projets doivent se concrétiser et le Leadership doit plutôt s’atteler à cet immense travail que de perdre son temps à discréditer les bonnes volontés, les compétences de la société civile ismailie telles que celles de Tazdin et Alnaj ! Et je suis sûr qu’il y a à travers le monde globalisé de notre communauté un immense réservoir des spécialistes des différents domaines qui ne demandent qu’à servir et qui sont persuadés de la « divine guidance » de notre Véneré Hazar Imam !
C’est mon vœu le plus sincère que cette douloureuse épisode de « lawsuit » serve à nous réunir autour des Vœux de Mowla Bapa, que le « statuquo » des comportements et des agissements des leaders n’est pas souhaitable et que chacun prenne ses responsabilités et ne jamais oublier que nous sommes tous des frères et sœurs quelque soient nos divergences de point de vue et que le pardon grandit toujours celui ou celle qui le pratique ! Notre engagement doit être franc, loyal, désintéressé et soutenu par notre capacité d’écoute et de compréhension des Directives de Mowla Bapa !
Ya ali Madat et Khoda Hafiz,
Mohez nato
Ps j’autorise les compétences des internautes pour traduire mon texte en anglais. Et merci d’avance !

* France

English translation of post by Nato from France(Google translato
On October 30th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

French to English translation
@all
On October 26th, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

Now that tensions have eased, that all, each other, brothers and sisters despite our different assessments on the subject, we all believe and may even proclaim that hard Mowla Bapa, in His great mercy and clemency in As Spiritual Guide to all His Muridae acted with tenderness, firmness and love. And His gesture is for me to divine inspiration!
It is a relief, moral and intellectual comfort to see the end of the proceedings! However, we must draw some positive lessons. It is time, not to mention really of "time outs" that the leadership seriously review how it communicates with the Jamaat and consider all the sensitivities, needs and requirements of the Jamat, aspirations, especially young generations through world! Meritocracy, diversity, pluralism, tolerance Mowla Bapa that advocates of all His wishes are concepts that leadership must take ownership of emergency! The example must come from leadership so that the Jamat really put their trust in this leadership, the younger generation are listening! Only in this way that will create intergenerational dynamics and projects, aspirations, Mowlana Hazar Imam Hidayat to be realized! It is time to stop "playing politics", the "musical chairs", the monopoly positions by "spirit of the clans", the "corporate leaders" actually "No bureaucracy, no greed, no bashing, no bad words. . ; "
In the era of the Internet, many things are not like before! Proof, the density, the number, the proliferation of debates, ideas, questions from users that Heritage Site has cleverly headed! Congratulations and many thanks for the courage. Keep up the great work without being tempted to excesses. Umed Congratulations!

The leadership has not the monopoly of our Faith! We are all connected, an unbreakable and eternal Bhayat by our Imam of the Present Time! Leadership does not have to be hasty and unfounded judgments about each other. They often proceed by pettiness, hypocrisy to those who issue opinions contrary to them, even constructive are rejected, forgotten and regarded as anti-tips, anti Hazar Imam! They are quick to discredit the many good wishes in the Jamaat, up to say that we should not rub or make friends with so if you want a position in the institutions! Yes, it's lived in our courts in France!

Our Faith is essentially esoteric, spiritual quest and personal! Also, "we are not to anyone's faith judje. Mowla Bapa does not say in London in 1994 that "one must get up the unfortunate Bandgasse .... And that" those who succeed in this way are particularly close to me! ".... Leadership then, get the spiritual inspiration of your behavior first with the Imam himself, who has put all his trust on you and your Jamat just waiting to hear from you, following you. But cease to believe in what you're part of Leadership that you grant rights and judgments about the Muridae and condemn without appeal because they do not agree with your approach!
This form of failure is urgent! The Ismaili intellectual elite, highly motivated by an ethic of faith proclaimed by Mowlana Hazar Imam will be very grateful!

We must distinguish the individual practice of our faith and our commitment to the Jamaat in our lives every day in the family, the country we live in our relations, our humanitarian actions. Mowla Bapa told us to be ambassadors of Islam in our life choices, honest, compassionate, generous and tolerant! I assure you that the 1994 London Farmans really challenged me! This search for faith belief that Mowla invites us to discover, live! no superficiality of social conventions in this quest, in this encounter with him .... It was very comforting, and so I somehow escaped the clutches of the petty officers and failing to give weight to play "political" hypocritical leaders of our institution.
We must always refer to Farman Mowla, easily read, have them at home, attend appointments and he allows us to act according to their wishes and Hidayat we can rediscover this quest for understanding individual !

During the Golden Jubilee Darbar different, Mowla Bapa we plotted our roadmap, His wishes, aspirations on his Ismaili family united and cohesive (TKN), eradication of extreme poverty and work for the dignity of the Elderly. These projects must be implemented and Leadership must instead focus on this huge job to waste time discrediting goodwill, the skills of civil society such as those of Ismaili Tazdin and Alnaj! And I'm sure there's globalized world through our community a huge reservoir of specialists from different fields who are eager to serve and who are convinced of the "divine guidance" of our revered Hazar Imam!
It is my sincere hope that this painful episode of "lawsuit" used to get together around Wishes Mowla Bapa, the "status quo" attitudes and actions of leaders is undesirable and that everyone takes responsibility and never forget that we are all brothers and sisters, whatever our differences in viewpoint and that forgiveness is ever growing one who practices it! Our commitment must be honest, loyal, selfless and sustained by our ability to listen and understand the guidelines of Mowla Bapa!
Ya ali Madat and Khoda Hafiz,
Mohez nato
Ps I authorize Internet skills to translate my English text. And thank you in advance!

* United States

@Alibhai Jiwani and rabya, Kanize, Farmanbardari
On October 31st, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madat,
Many thanks and my sincere gratitude to Jiwani Alibhai. You succeed to give an english version of my post. It is really a vast program to succeed for telling to the Leadership to change some o their attitudes and behaviors! It is not easy! when the nomination arrived, they stay in a "bull", far from jamat... and not ready to listen to, specially youngests and intellectuals! Here, in my juridiction, after the Padhamri of 1980, first time in France, we have the chance to do this Padhamri, and to make happy Mowlana Hazar Imam by showing Him that people,french speaking, young people , specialy coming from Madagascar, settled here after the bad political situation in 1970-1972 are capable to organise good things! Mowla Bapa was very, very happy, told us that we are "priviligied" people, and a big, sincere hope was born , many opportunities after this Mulaquat were visible in the jamat, many young people very motivated! Unfortunatly, after this, started the"political", the spirit of "clans" and in summary, 7 families occupied all different positions, searching positions for their family members, brother, sister, cousin, cousine, uncle, aunty..;and clearly, these 7 families have each 7 seven members of their family and until now, these 49 people are in positions .....they control every thing, do not accept meritocratie, competence, ignore tolerance, diversity, pluralisme....and they have big facility to treat you anti-council, anti-Hazar Imam.....And it is really true that during the last nomination, Mowla Bapa told to new president of council"take a white paper and write a new history of the jamat"..;because it is a big "echec" of the institution who must take care of jamat!
I am very sorry, it is not by jealousy and amertune that I wrote this text but in my mind, we loose many things and Mowla is waiting for our all implications , specially in Madagascar where there are big challenges and many brothers and sisters are in bad situation!
Merci beaucoup Rabya, Kanize, Farmanbardari pour vos gentils mots! je ne suis qu'un simple Murid, qui a compris que la Foi est une question intime, personnelle, et que cette quête personnelle conduit à affermir la confiance en Mon Mowla ! Il voit tout, entend tout, comprend tout! Ce n'est pas le leadeship qui va réussir à rompre le lien qui nous unit à Mowla Bapa!
Bonne chance et que Mowla nous garde tous sur la voie droite du Siratal-Mustaquim!
Ya ali Madat mohez nato

* France

Above post of Nato Mohez (Oct. 26) (+ gist in English :-) )
On October 27th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Mowla Aly madad.
J'espère qu'une bonne âme pourra traduire vos propos !
Ce serait vraiment bien si vous pouviez rédiger une lettre contenant tout ce que vous recommendez ci-dessus et l'envoyer au LIF ainsi qu'aux conseils nationaux et ITREB nationaux d'autant de pays que possible pour que les dirigeants soient au fait des changements que bien d'entre nous souhaitons voir, changements qui sont non seulement désirables mais aussi nécessaires. La plupart de ceux qui contribuent à cette page partagent votre opinion, malheureusement, les personnes concernées (c'est-à-dire les dirigeants), elles, ne consultent guère cette page-ci, alors ce qui précède ne les atteint pas et reste lettre morte. Et il faudrait écrire cette lettre en anglais aussi pour pouvoir rejoindre les dirigeants des pays anglophones, vu qu'ils ne connaissent guère le français...

Je suis sincèrement convaincue que si les membres du jamat pouvaient s'impliquer davantage en faisant connaître leur avis à leurs dirigeants locaux et nationaux, en attirant leur attention sur ce qui laisse à désirer dans ce qu'ils font et en les félicitant pour tout ce qu'ils font de bien, si les membres du jamat pouvaient faire preuve de moins de laxisme, je suis certaine qu'on verrait du progrès, et que, petit à petit, les changements que nous désirons pourront se mettre en place, vu que ce n'est pas tous les dirigeants qui manquent à leurs devoirs, il y en a qui sont très motivés, très droits, et ces derniers pourraient devenir prépondérants si le jamat luttait contre les autres; je suis certaine que si plus de membres du jamat avaient su le sens du bayyat, ils auraient automatiquement compris que ce n'était pas Mowla Bapa qui avait engagé cette poursuite judiciaire et ils auraient tous clamé haut et fort, jusqu'au LIF, que tout ceci n'était qu'une masquarade, un mensonge éhonté et ignoble qu'il fallait absolument arrêter, et je mettrais ma main au feu que les dirigeants coupables auraient pris peur et auraient reculé : c'est à cause de notre ignorance et à cause du silence de ceux qui connaissaient le sens du bayyat que ce procès est allé si loin. Et hélas, si nous, les membres du jamat, ne nous mobilisons pas, des tragédies de ce genre risquent de se répéter à l'avenir. Une célébrité anglophone dont je ne me souviens pas du nom a dit : "ALL IT TAKES FOR EVIL TO SPREAD IS FOR GOOD MEN TO STAND AROUND AND DO NOTHING ABOUT IT." C'est une phrase tellement juste.

Alors, cher frère dans la religion, j'espère que vous penserez sérieusement à vous exprimer en notre nom à tous auprès des dirigeants.

Ya Aly madad.

GIST OF THIS REPLY IN ENGLISH :

I asked Mohez Nato to please submit his views in a letter (in English also) to the Ismaili leadership of as many countries as possible (including the LIF) (since the leaders don't really visit this page, at least not those who should !) so that they know what changes most of us desire to see in the leadership (loyalty to the farman and guidance, transparency, integrity...).

Moreover, I said that if the members of the jamat had really known the implications of "bayyat" they would have automatically known that this lawsuit had not been engaged by the Imam of the time, and they would all have demanded of their leaders that this terrible suit be stopped and the people behind this lawsuit would have had to stop it. And those who knew kept quiet.
We, the jamat, need to be more involved and need to communicate our views to our leaders, we need to congratulate them for what they do that is right, we need to bring their mistakes to their attention, and by being thus involved, slowly but surely, those changes we desire will happen. I quoted the sentence of a famous English speaking person whose name I can't recall, "All it takes for evil to spread is for good men to stand around and do nothing about it." We must not let history (i.e. lawsuit, more lies) repeat itself by our laxism.

Ya Aly madad!

* Canada

French comment by Mohez
On October 27th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

I would love to read his comment
Please would someone be gracious to translate in English?
Thanks in advance

* United States

your sharp analysis
On October 27th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Mohez,

Thank you for your deep understanding of our beloved Imam's vision! You are suggesting positive actions.

As Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah said: "Prayer without action becomes pride".

Let us look at our present and past history, and bring positive change to our future, including a fair and transparent access for all Ismailis, of our Imam's authentic Farmans , may it be through paper copy, audios, videos or other electronic means.

Shukhar Mowla!

* Canada

@Bloglaw
On October 25th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad. Mr. Bloglaw, Mr. Abdul, Farmanbardari, Mr. Asif Momin, Mr. Nizar Shivji and of course Umed of this "great website", and others: Your postings are so knowledgeable and inspiring, they always keeps me informed, for which Many Thanks. Keep up the good work. May Allah Shower His Blessings upon you all, and may Our Beloved Hazar Imam Bless you all with His Zaheri and Batuni Deedar. Ameen. Thank you once again.

* Canada

rope of guidance
On October 26th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Thank you Yasmin!

All praises are due to our beloved Hazar Imam who tirelessly guides us through His Farmans. To cut us from receiving Farmans is to cut us from His guidances. We thank Nagib and Alnaz for having given their time and ressources to convey those Farmans to us.Nobody can do this work with so much dedication and forbearance unless there is Mowla's love in their heart and this is the greatest thing they could have shared with their spiritual brothers and sisters.

Mowla has just recently reminded us of an important principle of getting knowledge in Islam: even if you have to go to China to get knowledge, you have to do it.

And what best knowledge than Mowla's Farmans ( of course authentic and untampered by intermediaries!)

Mowlana Murtaza Ali said in Kalam-e-Mowla:

"The status of Knowledge
Is above all virtues,
For through Knowledge he has recognized the Lord,
The one who has enlightened his heart;
And virtues and deeds, all disappear,
Knowledge of God alone remains.
Listen to this, understand it and remember it always,
So commands the Master of the Kawsar."

* Canada

"WE ARE SOFT AND EMOTIONAL"
On October 26th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MS. YASMIN! Very many thanks for your kind words. A person like you inspires us to express our thoughts and comments. We mean no harm to anyone! We have always believed that our conscience will guide us to right the wrong. We, human beings are soft and emotional but it is the infinite grace and mercy of Allah which direct us to the right path!

I reciprocal all your good wishes word to word, and at the same time I pray in Holy Huzur Poor Noor of Hazarat Dhani Salamat Datar Hazar Imam to guide us to the right path and bestow His loving paternal maternal blessings upon all of us so that we all become tolerant, charitable, and broad-minded in our daily tasks, Amen!!! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

WE ARE SUPPORTING THE INSTITUTIONS – THE PHANTOM SENSITIVITY CAR
On October 23rd, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Bloglaw responds to the Editor of Vancouveritte

Thank you Mr Editor for your comments.

My comments and views are objective, specific and reasoned We are all in fact supporting our institutions by giving feedback on the many serious issues highlighted by the lawsuit. We have therefore all been playing a positive and a constructive role. Our leaders should welcome these comments and suggestions. Anyone commenting does not mean that they are therefore against the Institution or its structures or the leaders. Far from it. I am certainly not against any of them. I do so because I too care. I do not know Alnaz or Nagib. The first time I heard their names was when the lawsuit was initiated.

Some on your site including you (at times) have been very intolerant, insulting and intentionally offensive. That is very regrettable & sad, because I believe Hazar Imam, Noorani family and other interested groups have been following parts of this debate. I note you have said that this was because “love and religion can obscure your vision”. On a positive note this was a reality check for many including me. I have learned much from them. Thank you.

I am surprised you are trying to play “the phantom of fear card”. You are saying that in certain countries Ismailies are living in fear. They could be affected somehow by being alienated and tormented. With respect the phantom “sensitivity” card has been used regularly to limit access to information, Farmans, inaction and to maintain or control the status quo etc. etc. There is every reason to stop using this card. I would love to debate this if you yourself have really researched this, been to the countries and spoken to Ismailies or the local leadership on this. I assume you are simply relaying this information provided to you. Suffice it to stay that information for any misinformation or misuse has been out there in those countries for many years before this lawsuit. Despite which Hazar Imam has facilitated and achieved so much so quickly. Similarly many Ismaili’s with different traditions & cultures have been meeting each other for over a decade now. If farmans and guidance are followed and implemented, I am certain that there will be no reason to fear but reason to unite and share. Hazar Imam reminded the world and us last week that;

“.. In acknowledging the immensity of the divine, we will also come to acknowledge our human limitations, the incomplete nature of human understanding. In that light, the amazing diversity of creation itself can be seen as a great gift to us – not a cause for anxiety but a source of delight. EVEN THE DIVERSITY OF OUR RELIGIOUS INTERPRETATIONS CAN BE GREETED AS SOMETHING TO SHARE WITH ONE ANOTHER – RATHER THAN SOMETHING TO FEAR. IN THIS SPIRIT OF HUMILITY AND HOSPITALITY – THE STRANGER WILL BE WELCOMED AND RESPECTED, RATHER THAN SUBDUED – OR IGNORED .”

I pray that the consent order will be filed in the coming days and the case ended. I also pray that everyone will work together and support each other with proactive, concerted, and deliberate efforts to build our Jamat and institutions taking account of our differences, and seeing the diversity & pluralism within our Jamat as an opportunity. AMEEN

* United Kingdom

Bloglaw' s above post of Oct. 23rd
On October 24th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ameen to these prayers, Bloglaw, and many thanks for your insight and for giving to those of us who have not been to those distant countries where Ismailis live your impression and input about the jamats there. I really appreciate it. Bravo for the way you have articulated your response to that editor (I hope he can be a little bit happier in his life, so that what he writes can reflect that happiness too).
Indeed, all of us who post on this page do care for the jamat and do wish to help the institutions improve in their work so as to better serve those for whose needs they were created.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Unity, leadership, service to the Imam and the Jamat
On October 24th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Bloglaw,

You are right, Mowla has told us time and again to work unitedly, and this does not only apply to the ordinary member of the Jamat, it applies also to the officially appointed people who are in position of decision making in the Jamat.

Service to the Jamat and the Imam has to be done not only in letter, but much more in spirit. It has to be free of bureaucratic ties, specially for a small community like ours.

Leadership is not only a material leadership, but much more, a leadership of the soul.

I think by putting their precious limited resources in gathering and sharing Farmans, it shows a much greater leadership than trying to leave this work aside, on the name of legal "authority".

Time and again Mowla wants us to re listen to His Farmans, and discuss about it. One such examples was in Canada 1978 to students:

"I have given a Farman to My student Jamat in Vancouver which I would like the student Jamat in Montréal to listen to..."

Not only to read it but also to listen to it!

* Canada

Are the motions for summary judgment continuing??
On October 22nd, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

According to Vancouverite, the motions for summary judgment will be heard on December 7th. I thought that all parties had consented to a judgment and there will be no further motions. So, can someone please tell me why everybody is going to court after there already is a settlement agreement?

* Canada

This is on the Docket as the
On October 23rd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

This is on the Docket as the dates for those motions were asked by the Case Management Judge since few weeks already. Once all parties sign the consent judgment, these dates will be release. I believe Nagib has already sign it.

CONSENT
On October 25th, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

As Nagib has already signed the consent, would it be possible to release a copy of the consent so we can understand what was exactly agreed upon during their meeting with Mawlana Hazar Imam? I think everyone is very anxious to read the transcript and consent. Thanks in advance.

* Canada

Once the Consent is signed
On October 25th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Once the Consent is signed by all parties, it will be on Docket and available to all. It would be premature to release any such document when it has not been official.

A consent judgment, or agreed judgment, is a final decision that is entered on agreement of the litigants; is examined and evaluated by the court; and, if sanctioned by the court, is ordered to be recorded as a binding judgment. A consent judgment is a final, binding judgment in a case in which both parties agree, by stipulation, to a particular outcome. A consent judgment is used in order to settle an issue before a court and to end litigation

Once the Consent is signed
On October 26th, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

Please forgive me for my ignorance of the process. Is my understanding correct that as Mr. Nagib and Mr. Alnaz have given their consent to Mr. Brian for his motion to win and as Mr. Nagib is already signed the motion papers then why is there so much delay to make the final announcement when Mr. Nagib and Mr. Alnaz have already agreed?

* Canada

Nagib and Alnaz have agreed
On October 26th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Nagib and Alnaz have agreed to sign what the Imam told them to sign. Not more, not less. The Imam has been precise in his instructions. And these are the instructions they have followed.

However The lawyer Gray, is disputing what the Imam said on 15th October. So there will not be any agreement. A consent judgment is what the Imam wants (see definition of consent judgment). According to latest information, Gray does not want to comply with the Imam`s wish to sign a consent judgment, he wants to go for Motion in December.

Nagib and Alnaz have agreed
On October 27th, 2010 Muhammad (not verified) says:

I think Mr. Gray should agree with Imam's instruction. If he does not agree he will have a problem according to rules. If Imam has told him that he wish to sign consent judgment and he says NO, how is that possible? Mr. Nagib and Mr. Alnaz should complain to the court about this and refuse to go for Motion in December.

* Canada

@ Muhammad re: above post of Oct. 27
On October 30th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Brother Muhammad, since Mr. Gray's client is Mr. Sachedina (not Hazer Imam, since an Imam never sues a mureed whose bayyat He has accepted) he will only act according to Mr. Sachedina's instructions and will probably want to prolong this suit as long as possible. Think of the rate at which he bills his clients...
We should really request Mr. Sachedina to follow Hazer Imam's wish.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

UNEXPECTED AND SURPRISING !
On October 26th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

Mr Gray is also bound legally to follow Imam's instructions. Maybe Mr Gray is trying to cross the legal T's and dot the I's. In that drafting process there is some misunderstanding that Mr Gray is disputing what Imam agreed. I hope this is the case and can be resolved between Alnaz and Nagib with the Leaders & Mr Gray.

I hope we will know at some point what were the precise instructions of the Imam and what has been signed by Alnaz and Nagib.

This magnanimty, generousity and fairness shown by the the Imam is I feel touched and proud to say also unprecedented legally (for Mr Gray too), in Imam's wishes for consent , Instructions, extending the meeting to 25-30 minutes, allowing it to veer from the standard format of discovery etc.

* United Arab Emirates

@ Murad re: above post of Oct. 26
On October 30th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
As I expressed it in my reply to Muhammad (here above), Mr. Gray is only bound to follow Mr. Sachedina's instructions, since Hazer Imam is not the one he is working for...Hazer Imam's instructions, among others, included that the case end now.

* Canada

CONSENT
On October 23rd, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Thank you for the information. Everyone is waiting to reading a copy. I hope Nagib and Alnaz and or the LIF will share a copy when filed. I assume it has been signed by Alnaz and Mr Gray on behalf of Hazar Imam.

* United Arab Emirates

Vision of an electronic secure access @Ikram @Abdul
On October 22nd, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Mowla said about the knowledge society in Chicago 2008:

"it is immensely important that the Jamat should be forward thinking...so that they become more and more not only part of the knowledge society, but, Inshallah, lead the knowledge society. And when I talk about leading the knowledge society, I am also addressing Myself to the younger generations in the Jamat.."

As Ismailis, we are supposed to "lead" the knowledge society, not drag down those who do good things, let alone bashing them. In the corporate world, in order to survive, you need to lead.

One of TKN project should be, like banks do, to give a secure access to each ismaili, to Mowla's Farmans. Our youth's creativity and skills should be put into advancing our community into the atomic age. When they go to bed, they should be able to immerse themselves with our Imam's vision. Otherwise they will be glued to their television set or Nintendo and we will end up a "mediocre" community!

* Canada

Farmans online & TKN
On October 24th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

TKN is where ismailies have offered and pledged their time and knowledge for projects. So if there was a project to give access to Farmans online by for example ITREB or IIS. If after the project report was approved, and individuals were needed with certain skills then the TKN team will give details to ITREB -IIS who will then decide and select the team for the project. The project report for printing a book of Farmans will have been or is being prepared since Hazar Imam gave approval according to Dr Sachedina. Maybe this includes consideration of online access which has many advantages and in line with Imams wishes in your quotation and a significant saving of costs and a wider and targeted access and dissemination. This saving can be used towards Mawla's GJ goals or as the leaders consider best. There may also be some concerns which will also have been or need to be considered and addressed.

* United Arab Emirates

@Momin
On October 24th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

You are right Momin, there should be a team of dedicated Murids, but directly under Mowlana Hazar Imam and absolutely not under SS because he has shown no understanding of what a Farman is: It is God's word and cannot be edited, distorted, or play politics and power trip over it!

Also a paper version is not incompatible with an electronic version. I particularly liked the mp3 feature on Golden Kiz! I hope our future generations will show great creativity and will be under Mowla himself directly for this kind of project!

* Canada

EDITOR SAYS IT IS DANGEROUS FOR MURIDS TO KEEP THE BOOK ! WHY?
On October 22nd, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

NEWS EDITOR OF VANCOUVERITTE SAYS- But we also don’t know the authenticity of the contents of this book (remember that there is no forensic verification of the farmans in this book) that have not been reviewed by any authority so far. The danger is that 5,800 books can reach an awful number of people. It is dangerous to leave these books in so many hands and I think the soundest thing would be turn it over to someone in authority. The odd part – from my recollection – is that the book was to be returned by those who bought it. Correct me if I am wrong here. Now we hear it is OK to possess an illegally printed book. The fundamental idea would be to remove it from circulation. Period. The implication of the off the record conversation as reported by these folks is that a partial theft has been okayed? This is why we need some collaboration of the wishes of HH.
BLOGLAW REPLY - Editor : It has been established and you have agreed that there is no LIF announcement or statement that those who bought the book should return them let alone that the books are illegally held by them
IS BOOK AUTHENTIC ? : This has not been the issue in Court. Leaders have had the book well before the lawsuit and so did IIS. Surely the Farmans will (and should) have been verified as a first step (priority) before the lawsuit was filed. If this has still not been done then this can be added to the increasing number of gaps highlighted so far. Would you agree ?
IS BOOK DANGEROUS ? : Why do you conclude it is dangerous to leave these Farman books with Ismailies. What is the basis of your conclusion. What will Ismailies who have the book do with the book which is dangerous ? Please enlighten us. If you have heard this from the leaders the Jamat would be especially interested. This is not taking into account that our Imam has full confidence and trust in his murids. We should too.
IS BOOK ILLEGAL ? : The book is legal BECAUSE . Imam has given his consent for murids who have the book to keep the book.. There is therefore no question of theft. this is a consent order (A record of an agreement between the parties to an action).
CORROBORATION ? : The guidance and directions given by Hazar Imam in the 30 minute meeting will be corroborated by the consent order and hopefully with an institutional announcement through LIF. Meanwhile there is no reason to question the accuracy of the summary or understanding shared.

* United Kingdom

Bloglaw' s above post of Oct. 22nd
On October 23rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ah, Bloglaw, thank you ever so much for your tireless efforts to reply to all the remarks of this news editor whenever there is a need to! You are all the more to be commended that you do this no matter where you are on this planet! Good job, Bloglaw! Mowla tamnè sukhi raakhè! Ameen! You are doing a great service to everyone. Your perseverance is admirable.
Keep it up, Bloglaw.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Farmans are our heart
On October 22nd, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

I think that the people who came up with the book did a better job than any ITREB or IIS. They did it out of love and devotion and where careful about the authenticity of Farmans. Imam's Farmans are Farmans wether they come from an "authorized" person or not, specially when that "authorized" person just puts them in a drawer for years and just sits on them eternally.

Mowlana Hazar Imam said in India in 1992: (again, it is such an important Farman, our officials did not bring it to the Jamat)

"This is a complex Farman. Not many of you perhaps will feel comfortable with having understood the Farman in its completeness today. Listen to it, I hope the translation will be good, think about it, discuss it with your children, discuss it with your grandchildren, if they are old enough to think in these terms, and prepare them to see the way ahead, wisely and properly, because there is much opportunity, there are also perhaps risks. But what would be wrong is if you did not consider the changes ahead or you did not prepare for it. And therefore I am making this Farman to My Jamat in India today.

This Farman is not specific to India, in the sense that these changes will occur in other parts of the world. But I am happy to make this Farman today."

* Canada

EDITOR SAYS IT IS DANGEROUS FOR MURIDS TO KEEP THE BOOK ! WHY?
On October 22nd, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Bravo Mr Bloglaw, your comments are always and have been the ice on the cake. But what can you do with people who do not understand the Farmans, with the chamchas of the leader who says that a Farman becomes Farman when it's edited. it's hopeless. So let them bark.

* Canada

@Rabya
On October 29th, 2010 Nick (not verified) says:

Very Well said; " with the chamchas of the leader who says that a Farman becomes Farman when it's edited. it's hopeless. So let them bark"

Bloglaw gives reasoned
On October 23rd, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

Bloglaw gives reasoned responses with respect despite being insulted and being called names. This is only a handfull who are posting on vancouveritte including sadly the Editor. Dont worry about what they say and the best way is to continue to give reasoned reponses which are read and followed by increasing numbers.

Shukhr Mawla The case is coming to an end and I hope that the directions and guidance given by the Imam will be accepted & ACTIONED by the leaders whole heartedly.

* United Arab Emirates

Comments option on this website needs to be shut
On October 22nd, 2010 Iman (not verified) says:

Now that Imam has met with the two defendants and has given them appropriate guidelines I think the comments option has to be shut down on this website. Instead let the jamat surf this beautiful website for ginans, speeches and other literature which this website has to offer.

Failing to shut this comments option will be like a vicious circle where we will comment and then vancouverite will reply and tit for tat policy will prevail for god knows how long. Instead lets get together and achieve our goal which is practice our faith and leave everything behind us.

* United Kingdom

Perhaps this should apply to
On October 22nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Perhaps this should apply to all the web sites talking of that subject else it would not be fair. But yes this would be the right thing to do in view of the desire of the Imam to put this matter to rest. Will they all shut the comments?

Re: above post of librarian-umed of Oct. 22nd
On October 23rd, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Could we possibly wait until the consent of judgment (I hope I used the proper terms :-) ) has been finalized and agreed to before we close the comments on this topic, librarian-umed ? And certainly, it is only fair that this page be closed only if other websites close theirs too...

* Canada

Debate is healthy & contributes in many ways....
On October 22nd, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

Others will not stop or berespectful or be fair if comments are shut on one site. Murids will not have a rich diversity of views. And we will be going backwards into the hush hush & fear culture. We should all debate openly, constructively & with respect. This should be welcomed by the leaders as it is by murids becuase they will have enabling information to serve the needs of the Jamat better. This will also contribute to changing the social mindset Imam talked about. This will also act as the checks and balances Imam refers to in farmans and the recent lecture. We should not try to cover up history which some on other sites have suggested. There is also a need for a platform in which leaders also participate where we use the internet proactively to learn, inform and for leaders to lead. Imam reminded us recently not use the internet to misinform or mislead.

* United Arab Emirates

@Nagib, Al Naz, Rabiya, Yasmin, Alibhai Jiwani, Abdul, Bloglaw……
On October 22nd, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

It is evident that all of you have immense, ecstatic Love for Imam E Zaman. Here is what is stated in Quran, Farmans of MSMS and Maulana Rumi about this Love.
1. ‘The present world is naught but a game’(Quran: 47.36)
2. ‘Have you heard how Khidr broke the planks of the ship to save it from the hands of the tyrant? ‘(Quran: 18:72, 80)
3. ‘ The Khidr of your time is Love’(Divan e Shams Tabrez)

Allah’s love for man and man’s love for Allah is very well said in this verse of Quran.
4. ‘Allah will bring people whom He loves and who loves Him, humble towards believers, disdainful towards the unbelievers, men who struggle in the path of Allah, not fearing the reproach of any reproachers.’(45. 54)
Rumi employs the term ‘poverty’ in a context synonymous with ‘nonexistence’ or ‘annihilation’ in Him through Love, and he writes in Fihi ma Fihi(discourses of Rumi) as follows:
‘But when you enter the world of poverty and practice it, Allah bestows upon you kingdom and worlds that you never Imagined…’ (Fihi ma Fihi 145-46/ 154)
5.’Love cannot be contained within our speaking or listening. Love is an ocean whose depths cannot be plumbed. Would you try to count the drops of the sea? Before that Ocean of Love the seven seas are nothing’. (Mathnavi Maulana Rumi)

And now following Farmans of MSMS in Gujarati:

1. ‘કદાચ ઈશ્ક અને મહોબત હશે અને ઈબાદત ઓછી હશે તો કંઈ પણ ફીકર નથી, પણ ઈશ્ક અને મહોબત રાખવી તેમાં ઈબાદત કરતાવધારે ફાયદો છે. (જંગબાર 4-8-1914)
2. ‘ધર્મ છે તે પ્યારની ચીજ છે.(મુંબઈ 31-1-1926‌)
3. ‘તમે હંમેશા અમારા ઉપર ઈશ્ક અને મહોબત રાખજો. જેમ અમે તમારા ઉપર મહોબત રાખીએ છીએ, તેમ તમે તમારા રૂહાની પિતા પ્રત્યે ઈશ્ક રાખજો. (મુંબઈ9-2-1936)
4. ‘અલી અને નબીના ગાદીવારસ ઉપર તમારૂ ઈમાન મજબુત રાખજો. મહમદ અને અલીના વંશ પર જેઓ બીરાજે છે તેના ઉપર પ્યાર રાખશો તો તમને દુનિયામાં કોઈ ડર રહેશે નહિ. આ એક ફરમાનમાં ઈબાદત, બંદગી અને મઝહબની બધી ખૂબીઓ આવી જાય છે’.(દારેસ્સલામ 3-2-1937)
5. ‘તમે તમારા હાઝર ઈમામ પ્રત્યે ઈશ્ક રાખો, તેથી ઉત્તમ બીજું કાંઈ નથી. તમે મૌલાના ઈશ્કમાં હંમેશા મદહોશ રહો.( દારેસ્સલામ 15-2-1937)
6. ‘તમે નેક આમાલ કરજો... અમારા ફરમાન ઉપર ચાલજો. તમે ખુદાવંતઆલા પ્રત્યે મહોબ્બત તથા ઈશ્ક રાખો’(જંગબાર, 7-9-1885)
7. ‘નબી અને અલી જે આલ, જે ગાદીવારસ છે તેની મહોબ્બત અને હુબ વગર કોઈ ઈબાદત બંદગી કબુલ થતી નથી’(મુંબૈઈ 8-9-1885)
8. તમારો દીન પુસ્તકો ઉપરથી શરૂ થયો નથી, પરંતુ તે મહોબ્બતમાંથી ઉત્પન્ન થએલ છે.”(જંગબાર 1- 7-1899)

It is clear from all above that lovers of Imam E Zaman do not fear anybody for they are protected and guided by Him at each and every step, and are in a position to face any tyrants and do not reproach.

Kasamali's above post of Oct. 22nd
On October 23rd, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for reminding us of these beautiful farman extracts, brother Kasamali. The first one is so reassuring and so comforting...It reminds me of the chapter on Iman in Risala dar haqiqati din...I am grateful too that you left them in Gujarati, and did not translate them, in case "ghèr ismailiyo aa vaanchè. Sat panth no pardo raakhavaanun chhè..." Again, thank you.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

sath panth
On October 24th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

I agree with you brother Abdullah, the language of Sath panth is universal and can be found in christianism, judaism and all other religions. It is the love that Kassamali is referring to. Love, Truth, Unity, forebearence, patience, dialogue, service to the poor and weak, search for spiritual enlightenment. These are our ismaili Sath Panthi values and Mowla is spreading them throughout the world by word and actions.

* Canada

I feel it should be
On October 23rd, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

I feel it should be translated in english for all ismailies to read and enjoy. Remember non ismailies who want to read can get it translated and if they read they will respect Imam and our community more.

* United Arab Emirates

Knowledge and love of the Imam
On October 22nd, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Thank you Kassamali, that is the spirit of Ismailism!

What better thing than the knowledge of the Imam (His Farmans ) coupled with his unconditionnal love.

No bureaucracy, no greed, no bashing, no bad words......

* Canada

@Kassamali
On October 22nd, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Mr Kassamali. Thank you for your kind words. As Umed said let's all work together. Let us all also make Our Beloved Hazar Imam always happy, He loves all His Murids. I would like to thank Umed of this "great website", I feel nice when I read such positive postings. Once again, Thank You All.

* Canada

EDITOR NOT HAPPY WITH IMAMS WISHES ? DR SS? MR MM?
On October 22nd, 2010 Karim Ali (not verified) says:

layman October 21, 2010
The LIF announcements did not instruct the Jamati members as to what to do with the books they have purchased. The announcements only asked the Jamat to avoid purchasing these books but nothing on what to do with the ones purchased. The only books that were asked to be returned (through the statement of claim and subsequently announced through LIF in JKs) were the remaining unsold books with the defendants to the IIS.

Reply News Editor October 21, 2010 - 11:23 AM
Thank you. That clarifies the situation. But a staggering number of books were sold to Ismailis who buy all kinds of anything with “Imam” in it. Pictures, books, trinkets…you name it. There is a whole industry run by cottage Ismailis.

Reply bloglaw October 21, 2010 - 11:31 PM .

It would be interesting to know and learn about the alleged industry run by cottage Ismailies. Have the 2 leaders or other leaders shared this with you ?
More important. Since you know this, the Ismailies and the Leaders know this. And if so, what have the leaders done to stop them?. And if not why not ?. Why are you unhappy with imams decision and wishes for Ismailies to keep this book ? Are the 2 leaders unhappy too ? Why has there never been any announcement to return the books ? Finally why are the Leaders happy to allow other cottage Ismailies (if they really exist) to continue but not so in this case ?

* United Arab Emirates

@Abdul
On October 21st, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

And if those corporate leaders and particularly SS believes in the One Noor of the Imams, then it should be obvious to him that previous Imams' Farmans are our present Imam's Farmans.

Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah said:

"After listening these Farmans of Mine, think about them in your
hearts. Do not let them, in from one ear to get out from the other.
After listening My Farmans, even if one person acts according to
them, that would be enough for Me.

* Canada

The path forward and the 30 minute meeting with Hazar Imam
On October 21st, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I have been thinking and it is not surprising many are confused. So here are possible explanations for consideration

1 Leaders did not wish to, nor wish Hazar Imam to have a meeting or for this case to be settled out of court. They will have given reasons such as ;

a. If there is a meeting many others will follow and ask for meetings

b. Imam has written the letters and given affirmationthat that Imam will not meet his 2 murids. A meeting will affect the Imam’s and especially the leaders credibility with the Jamat, and also with and that of Mr Gray too.

c. If there is a settlement many others will print and distribute similar and tariquah related books.

d. If there is a meeting or a settlement Leaders, the Jamat will not respect leaders.

e. Mr Gray’s advice is not to settle and fight this case to ensure future copyright is protected

f. These murids are setting up a parallel religion and Ismaili institution and following.

g. These 2 murids have not respected the leader and the institutions in question in the past

I will not comment on the merits of each of the above reasons, because Imam has decided on them all be agreeing to have a meeting and ending the case

2 However what Imam decided and directed is against the wishes and what the leaders preferred and recomended. Therefoe big question is if (and to what extent) there will be some natural and passive resistance from the two or more leaders. If so then this is motivated by resentment and grievances (against the Imam’s wishes and vision) steeped in a traditional mindset and social egos . “…Institutional reforms will have lasting meaning only when there is a social mindset to sustain them”

3 On the same evening Imam delivered a lecture. I sincerely believe there was also wisdom and guidance for our institutions and leaders so that they are better enabled to exercise their obligations in the best interests of the Jamat with checks and balances to bridge the gaps. In that lecture Imam also reminded us of human limitations, and of the divine, amongst others

Last but not the least, the following two relevant and significant quotes from the Imam on the same day . Imam murids to be heard. Leaders to listen. Murids and leaders both to observe and learn. Most important to work together to bridge divisions wherever they are and in whatever form or shape they appear.

“…. The right to be heard implies an obligation to listen – and, beyond that, a proactive obligation to observe and to learn .

..one of the most important tests of moral leadership is whether our leaders are working to widen divisions – or to bridge them...”

I hope everyone will carefully study Imam’s lecture,interview and workshop. I hope appropriate parts of Imam's vision and guidance is being used in LOP sessions for strategic reviews of the plans and path ahead. Also for students and the Youth such sessions will be immensly appreciated and will be of value.

* United Kingdom

@bloglaw
On October 21st, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

The Imam’s guidance for the development of a harmonious community are clearly spelt out in the address he made the same day that he chose to end the lawsuit. It is therefore incumbent, at the least, for SS, as the head of the Jamaati Institutions, to embrace His words and implement the process of empowerment of the Ismaili institutions.

1. It begins by stopping those who demonise anyone who dares to disagree with the leadership. The Imam specifically singles out such people in His speech. Our institution should be models of pluralism, allowing for a multiplicity of idea, of forums for healthy listening and being listened to. In the future, unless Mowla Himself says so, no leader or otherwise should be able to silence opposition by labelling it “anti-mowla”. SS should make it clear that other than the Imam, everyone else is fallible and therefore capable of making mistakes.He should stop leaders from using proxies, such as the Editor of Vancouvrite who proudly admits to being a mouthpiece for them.

2. SS should mandate world-wide jamaati institutions do study-sessions of the speech to figure out how they can build it into their operations. (and if SS does not do it because he is afraid of being criticised for this lawsuit fiasco, then the local leaders should do it anyway-they have Mowla’s approval in His speech)

3. Institutions should seriously consider a process that allows anonymous evaluation of leadership. It should not only be top down. Many community organisations have mechanism in place for this. Lets adopt. Lets not wait for whispered “hidayats”. We have a public call by the Imam.

Will these steps happen? Don’t hold your breath. Why? Because whilst Mowla’s speech resonates globally and His wisdom will be used by many, the Ismaili jamaati leadership is made up of timid “followers” who are afraid to think for themselves and only jump when someone higher up tells them to do so. It is not an understatement to say that Ismailis leaders are “zeros” compared to the great intellectual personality that is our Mowla.

In public gatherings, they are usually clueless and ride the coat-tails of Mowla’s name as their calling card, to enhance their own personal profile. And when an Ismaili achieves success in the “mainstream”, the leaders promptly “christian” him or her, as a good Ismaili and try to take credit, even when that person has risen on their own personal credentials.

Listening to Mowla speak and then looking at the some of the sorry bunch of selfish, half-baked social climbers who lead us, it almost makes one want to cry.

* Seychelles

We are not here to judge anyone's Faith
On October 22nd, 2010 heritage says:

We are not here to judge anyone's Faith. The Imam does not give up on Murids. He wants all murids to work together. Instead of taking a firm immovable stand, let us come together to find ways of working together while respecting our differences.

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

We are not here to judge anyone's Faith
On October 22nd, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

You are right Admin, Mr Abdul and Mr Bloglaw are right too. But we are waiting for some news from the defendants and the leaders, What about the consent, is it signed??

* Canada

What is needed is meaningful change
On October 22nd, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

You and Bloglaw have hit the nail on the head.

Imam in the lecture (& Farmans) has given guidance on institutional structures, reform and change. There will be no meaningful change untill the leaders change or there is a change in their social mindset. As a result of this lawsuit all leaders have received excellent and credible feedback. Maybe earler leaders had no reason to. They now have every reason to be proactive and address the 2 root causes and reverse the trend of the widening gap in the ground realities (to borrow the expression from Bloglaw)

To address the root causes and reverse the gaps, Mawla has provided the vehicles to the leaders in the form of advice, mechanisms, guidance and resources.

Thank you and Bloglaw for capturing the essence.These are appreciated by murids and I am sure by most leaders who are reading these or receiving them.

* United Arab Emirates

FUNDADAMENTAL QUESTIONS THAT REMAIN
On October 20th, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

Now that Mr. Tajdin has made his peace with his Murshid, is it appropriate to ask what will happen about the issues raised in the documents filed in court, X-exam of SS and AB as well as Tajdin & Jiwa? These were fundamental questions of faith and Ismailis cannot hide their discomfort by having collective myopia, even as they celebrate the wisdom of Imam to settle this matter amicably.

Ismailis follow the Imam because of He is all-knowing and thereby, capable of giving divine guidance to them.

Therefore:

1. Imam was always aware of Tajdin’s Farman book in the Alibhai’s plate during the Mehmani.

The filing of the lawsuit shows that SS did not believe that. And those who still condemn Tajdin and Jiwa do not believe that either. Are they true momins if they doubt the fundamental tenant of the faith? There can be no dancing around on this point. Tajdin believed it and was vindicated in his Mulaqat. Are the rest going to get away with fuzzy concepts of “worldly” and “spiritually”. Has the Imam himself ever dissected His life activities into two?

2. The Imam does not “think in French and speak in English”.

He dwells in the realm where language is immaterial.
Obviously, SS (and most of the current ‘corporate” leaders as well, otherwise they would have rejected SS) do not really believe that. And sadly, it must be assumed that the Ismaili missionaries (and the Tariqa Board) also pay lip service to the fundamental concept of Sath Panthi Ismailism, since they, too, have chosen to remain quite in the face of this blasphemy.

3. The Imam’s hand doesn’t shake when he signs nor do ski accidents affect his writing skills.

It is OK for Mr. Grey to make up such absurd defences (lawyers are paid high fees to attack the other side-truth is not their normal objective) but for the Head of the Jamaati Organisations Secretariat, SS, to allow such a fundamental attack on the holy personage of the Imam, is the height of hypocrisy. Either SS unequivocally believes in the Imamat or he is just another opportunist, who has attained the power that goes with his position through pretence (and “chamchagiri or as the young Ismailis say it, “brown-nosing”). Mowla may have saved his hide but he should have the decency to resign.

4. Farmans are only farmans after they have been edited.

This has to be the most absurd position put forward by SS. To true believers, the Imam’s spoken word is a pearl of eternal wisdom. It cannot need editing. Period.

5. The ITREB (Ismailia Tariqa and Religious Education Board) does not get to distribute farmans but IIS (Institute of Ismaili Studies) gets copies of all farmans.

The Constitution appoints ITREB as the sole body to distribute farmans. Imam has provided Ismailis with a constitution not as a joke. He believes in empowering communities to learn to live in harmony. So why did the leadership make the distribution of Farmans such a mess that the Imam feels that Mr. Tajdin may be more effective? Whose head is on the line here?

And you should ask, since when did non-Ismaili historians and researchers at IIS become the guardians of the Sat Panth faith? Since when the likes of the great Ismaili missionaries like Abualy and the Merchants went out of favour with leaders like SS.

So the bottom line is this…the corporatisation of the Ismailism may agree with the MBA’s of the Ismaili world but it goes against the grain of a faith-based community. Either the leaders accept the Imam’s divinity in everything He says and does or else they should accept that it is hypocrital for them to remain as leaders and vacate.

Sorry to rain on the feel-good party, momins….. but these questions haven’t gone away.

* Seychelles

fundamental questions
On October 24th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Abdul, you really laid out some fundamental issues in these 5 points.

Hazar Imam always emphasized the need for us to be clear in our minds that we have two parts: the material and the spiritual.

When someone is appointed to a position of decision making and leadership, his name is put forward because he has been successful in the material part of his life. He is either a good businessman, or has achieved a good education and career. The vacuum here is the spiritual and ethical qualities, and the knowledge of the fundamentals or basics of our faith that he may be lacking.

Perhaps, a supplementary training including these spiritual values and knowledge should go with every appointment in the Jamat.

In Pakistan 2000 Mowlana Hazar Imam said:

".....What this means is that seeking material comfort is entirely legitimate, but it must never become the single purpose of an individual in his or her lifetime....., be regular in the way you interact in society with men and women - with kindness, with thoughtfulness and with generosity – so that during your lifetime, your lifetime in this world, you keep a good and a wise balance between the worldly and the spiritual. I am confident of your happiness if you keep this balance in your lives and therefore, I say to My spiritual children today: don’t let that balance be disturbed by value systems which are not part of our history, our Tariqah. Keep the value systems close to you, and live with them...."

I think this applies to leaders as well!

* Canada

@ Abdul( fundamental questions)
On October 22nd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

I cannot express how happy and impressed I am with your above post.
You have indeed spoken my heart and mind out
thank you for writing so truthfully and beautifully indeed!
please continue
We need intellectuals like you to come forward.
Mashaallah very well analyzed and presented!

* United States

@ Rabiya
On October 20th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

The person who ridiculed you and intends to ostracize is the same person who some time back called Nagib and Al Naz as ‘two idiots’. Again after some few days later commenting upon the write up of ‘ An ordinary Murid’, He worte , ‘ Now there are three idiots. Some time back some other person of that group also expressed unfair remarks about Yasmin.
So you see this person and his ilk have the inveterate habit of giving such ridiculous title to the persons he most despise. His egoism does not allow him to face the truth. He is not only going to deny the truth, but even spare no efforts to twist it.
Next, all lovers of Ali like Nuseri, Mansur Al Haj, and Maulana wer ridiculed by the same so called the protectors of Islam.
So I like the idea of Yasmin to ignore them.
Your sole and only aim
is your beloved Lord
Nothing except Love
of His you can afford.

" PLEASE FOLLOW THE RECENT STEPS OF MAWLANA HAZAR IMAM!"
On October 21st, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. ASIF MOMIN! RE: MS. RABIYA. Mr. Asif Momin, you appear to instigate in your comments, some of the contributors from the Ismaili Heritage as well as the Vancouverite, does it behove you? We all are in process of reconciling our thoughts, sentiments, and emotions. We all are now trying to understand and follow our ground rules and foundation on Ismailism! Please follow the recent steps of Mawlana Hazar Imam!

Why do you have to light fires on issues which are now yesterday’s news and today’ history? Ms. Yasmin has moved on and Ms. Rabiya will also accept the reality and follow her conscience on sense of right and wrong! I know Ms. Rabiya is hurting but her faith will heal her! Mawlana Hazar Imam is always with those who wish to forget and forgive! This is the way to Ismailism!

You cannot appease anyone because appeasement is a long lease to disappointment, disillusionment, and dissatisfaction! What you have done now is to create mischief to harm and ignite raw emotions! Please be charitable, tolerant, and generous! This will be your salvation! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Thank you Asif Momin
On October 20th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

100% right. We don't have time for this kind of remarks. I just pray that Mowla gives them subudi. Ameen. We have to concentrate on the future and what's going to happen now...

* Canada

EDITOR AGREES LEADERS MUST SHARE GUIDANCE & THERE IS A GAP !!
On October 20th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

EDITOR VANCOUVERITE ".. But the point is that in the meantime the good faith of our leadership is being violated and some Ismailis are being led by the nose. This is where a gap in communications needs to be filled. Now, you are a regular here and you know the facts. Others believe everything they read and are congratulating these folks. So I consider the non-information to be problematic.."

Reply bloglaw! October 20, 2010 - 4:59 AM
Editor I agree with you 100% that the leaders and the 2 murids should share information and guidance regarding the 30 minute meeting, with the Jamat to avoid more confusion, and A widening the communication gap.

I do not agree with your or Karim’s assumption that the leaders may have been instructed by Hazar Imam not to share information with leaders or the Jamat in this case (or in other matters). This would be totally inconsistent historically and in accordance with institutional guidance and directives by the Imam. This was also reinforced by the Imam in an open forum in his lecture. He would not advocate sharing etc in such a forum and advocate the opposite to our institutions or for the Jamat ?

I agree with you that the sooner there is an LIF announcement the better. Meanwhile I have no reason to doubt the information shared by Alnaz and Nagib so far in the Heritage website.

I agree with you 100% that we need accurate information and there is a crying need for this. As Imam said in the Lecture that information is available and accessible and inescapable. This can be used for communicating good information and knowledge. Equally for misinformation or To leading and to mislead. .

Therefore the sooner the consent order is filed and there is an LIF announcement, the sooner we will have clarity and accurate information AND everyone including Alnaz and Nagib will help contribute in bridging the widening gap. And the sooner may be I can have my debate :) which I will insist you moderate !

* Malaysia

“THE ISMAILI MUSLIM CONSTITUTION IS WORTH ITS WEIGHT IN GOLD”
On October 19th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Please bear in your minds that these paragraphs are neither dealing with the Ismaili Muslim Arbitration Board nor it is rendering any kind of criticism, nor judgement, nor its judicial impact on the Ismaili Muslim Constitution. Please enlighten and correct me if my finding is not agreeable to you.

We have talked much about the Ismaili Muslim Constitution but sadly speaking, we have not appreciated its eminence and prominence. I am profoundly saddened that the Ismaili Institution has done very little to stress the importance of the Ismaili Muslim Constitution! I do not know how far the Ismaili Muslim Institution has put into effect and put into practice the Ismaili Muslim Constitution. When the moral rights of any Ismaili Muslim are violated, the best course we have seen is to instigate a legal proceeding.

• Some simply feels it is just a document with rules of laws on a community establishment.
• Some merely feels it as a document which is for the name sake.
• Some justly understand it value but feels it is still a document like any certification accumulating fine dust on a bookshelf.
• Some feel it is only good only to excommunicate the Ismaili Muslim who has been defiant and inconsistent with Ismailism.
• Some feel that if they have required signatures on a petition it will give them the privilege with assurance to meet their objective to smear and remove any Ismaili Muslim from Ismaili Muslim Community.
• Some feel that if their rights are infringed by any Ismaili Muslim Institution, the Ismaili Muslim Constitution will offer them the remedy.
• Some feel that vendetta and blood feud give reasonable constitutional rights to invoke the Ismaili Constitution to chastise any Ismaili Muslim.
• Some feel that any level of the Ismaili Muslim Institutions can offer appropriate remedy without invoking the Ismaili Constitution.

The Ismaili Muslim Constitution regulates interactions between the all levels of Ismaili Institutions and Ismaili Muslims. It is important document because it can remove inconsistency with its provisions. The Ismaili Constitution has affirmed of our values.

The Ismaili Muslim Constitution is founded on the rule of laws and entrenches in the rights and freedoms of all Ismaili who believe in enjoying in a free and democratic society. It recognizes primary fundamental freedoms of expression and of association, democratic rights, and legal rights. It recognises equality rights. It recognizes the multicultural heritage of Ismaili Muslims. It is very flexible with education rights. The Ismaili Constitution is worth it weight in gold. The Ismaili Constitution is ordained by Mawlana Hazar Imam and should be treated with reverence and due solemnity. Please do not invoke its rule of laws to incriminate any Ismaili Muslim! It does not behove us! We are a tolerant society with generosity.

"It is by accepting our human limits that we can come to see the other as a fellow seeker of truth and to find common ground in our common quest. Let me emphasize again, however, that spirituality should not become a way of escaping from the world but rather a way of more actively engaging in it. There are a variety of ways in which we can work to build a culture of tolerance in a turbulent time (Aga Khan).

COURTESY (Extract from the speech by Mawlana Hazar imam at the Tutzing evangelical academy in Germany, upon receiving the tolerance award, May 20, 2006, and Canadian charter of rights and freedoms). Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

OUR CONSTITUTION - THE GAP
On October 20th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Thank you for sharing your thoughts Mr Shivji

Regarding awareness and understanding of the constitution. You are not certain. Assuming your views reflect the views of many of the Jamat:(if not most) - Then this demonstrates clearly that the leadership have not fully implimented Imam's guidance and ensured that the Jamat fully understands our constitution. Also there are related rules and policies which are not readily available. If so I am sure you would have requested them and studied them. have you ?
.
Regarding your uncertainty if our constitution has been put into practice by our leadership. You say you do not know if it has been put into practice. Your question seeking this answer is self fulfiling. If you dont know how can you expect other members of the Jamat to know ?

Hence the wideing gaps which needs to be all bridged. And thank you for sharing Imam's quote. 4 year on look and the wonderful similarity and succint distintion advocated by Hazar Imamin talking about human limitations and the Divine. (see my earlier post below)

* Malaysia

Cant get a copy of of the Constitution ?
On October 22nd, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

Mr Shivji says in the heritage site he tried to get a copy of the consitution and was not able to get a copy of the constitution. Mr Shivji you say you were refered to the internet. So MR Shivjee got a copy of the earlier constitution and relying on that to understand and comment

The last consitution was available for sale at many JK's and in libraries. You should send an email to your national ITREB Chair and President to request a copy or where you can get access, and to make them aware If you cant (which I doubt & hope is not the case) you can inform HQ at Aiglemont.

If any one cant get access to Farmans, books or information, then they should feel free and comfortable to first make a request to their Local Mukhi/ITREB, who should proactively facilitate and make every effort to assist and provide access.

* United Arab Emirates

My Intake
On October 19th, 2010 Babu (not verified) says:

My intake:

Everything happens for a reason. Both Alnaz and Nagib's hardship for the last 6 months paid them well off then expected.

They asked for 5 minutes with Mowla but they got 30 minutues.

Nagib's hard work was appreciated and approved by Mowla because He said that the Firman books can be kept.

Promotion for Nagib, because Mowla said he wants to work with him in future and inshallah more meetings with Mowla which otherwise would not have happened.

What I am wondering is how SS approached Mowla and confessed his forgery. I guess he must have had a private meeting with Mowla (before meeting Nagib and Alnaz) and must have fallen under Mowla's feet and cried like a child for his forgiveness. Mowla must have said not to worry and He will handle everything. Just my imagination.

It all comes down to abuse of power, jealousy and ego.

* Canada

TIMETO BRIDGE, TO BUILD, TO SHARE AND TO BE PROACTIVE !
On October 19th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Imam shared profound wisdom and guidance in His lecture and interview on the same day He settled the case. I summarise below excerpts from the lecture which are relevant to the lawsuit and to all of us. If anyone thinks these are not relevant to, the lawsuit, Momins, leaders or our institutions, Please listen to the entire lecture and the interview at least twice or thrice, and then think again.

I hope Imam’s guidance for 30 minutes,and the consent order will be shared with the Jamat sooner rather than later. This will stop unhealthy speculation because everyone will know for certain. Therefore everyone should then l work towards bridging divisions and differences (& not to widen them)

Quotes “On the institutional level, we can begin by looking at the structures of public governance. “…INSTITUTIONAL REFORMS WILL HAVE LASTING MEANING ONLY WHEN THERE IS A SOCIAL MINDSET TO SUSTAIN THEM. There is a profound reciprocal relationship between institutional and cultural variables. How we think shapes our institutions. … How we see the past is an important part of this mindset.

A sense of historic identity can immensely enrich our lives. But we also know how myopic commitments to “identity” can turn poisonous when they are dominated by bad memories, steeped in grievance and resentment. The marginalization of peoples can then become a malignant process, as people define themselves by what they are against. The question of “Who am I?” is quickly transformed into “Who is my enemy? ”

“…. THE RIGHT TO BE HEARD IMPLIES AN OBLIGATION TO LISTEN – AND, BEYOND THAT, A PROACTIVE OBLIGATION TO OBSERVE AND TO LEARN .
..ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT TESTS OF MORAL LEADERSHIP IS WHETHER OUR LEADERS ARE WORKING TO WIDEN DIVISIONS – OR TO BRIDGE THEM...

…In sum, what we must seek and share is what I have called “a cosmopolitan ethic,” a readiness to accept the complexity of human society. It is an ethic which balances rights and duties. It is an ethic for all peoples. It will not surprise you to have me say that such an ethic can grow with enormous power out of the spiritual dimensions of our lives. IN ACKNOWLEDGING THE IMMENSITY OF THE DIVINE, WE WILL ALSO COME TO ACKNOWLEDGE OUR HUMAN LIMITATIONS, THE INCOMPLETE NATURE OF HUMAN UNDERSTANDING. In that light, the amazing diversity of Creation itself can be seen as a great gift to us – not a cause for anxiety but a source of delight.

EVEN THE DIVERSITY OF OUR RELIGIOUS INTERPRETATIONS CAN BE GREETED AS SOMETHING TO SHARE WITH ONE ANOTHER – RATHER THAN SOMETHING TO FEAR. IN THIS SPIRIT OF HUMILITY AND HOSPITALITY – THE STRANGER WILL BE WELCOMED AND RESPECTED, RATHER THAN SUBDUED – OR IGNORED …”

As Adrienne Clarkson said at this lecture in 2007, we cannot count on the power of “love” to solve our problems – as important as that quality is. A part of our challenge, as she said, is learning to live and work with people we may not particularly like!” ..TO DO SO WILL REQUIRE CONCERTED, DELIBERATE EFFORTS TO BUILD SOCIAL INSTITUTIONS AND CULTURAL HABITS (MINDSET) WHICH TAKE ACCOUNT OF DIFFERENCE, WHICH SEE DIVERSITY AS AN OPPORTUNITY RATHER THAN A BURDEN..”

IMAM KNOWS IMAM KNOWS BEST AND WE ARE ALL BLESSED ALHAMDULLILAH AMEEN !

* Malaysia

This case has now been
On October 18th, 2010 Concerned Momin (not verified) says:

This case has now been ended. Sukhur mowla!!!

"Lets not judge."

Lets move on now and say more salwat and be peaceful and spread the peace around the world.

Peace and Happiness

* Canada

excommunication
On October 18th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

I have been excommunicated by vancouverite soulmate regarding my comment of October 16 about ottawa citizen. Mr soulmate I am happy that I have the honour like Mr Bloglaw to get quoted by you, it's because my comments are right and it is hurting you. It's not the fist time that you are hurt by my quotes. The true prevails and is prevailing, you should accept defeat and be humble instead of insulting people. Do you have a divine right to get me expelled or a divine inspiration. Who are you to excommunicate me. Admin, I hope that you will post this comment. I don't want any trouble but this is too much. Thank you

* Canada

thank you Yasmin
On October 18th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

I am not upset, of course Alnaz and Nagib are the examples to follow, their ''sabar'' was and is extraordinary. I hope that the end of this case will bring some changes in the leaders' perception and behaviour towards the Jamat, it will bring some changes in the institutions (councils, tariqas), less musical chairs. Anyway, we continue to pray and will see what happens next.

* Canada

@Rabya
On October 18th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Rabya. Please don't get upset. Take the example of Nagib and Alnaz, who were sevadaris and good Murids, the issue was publishing a Farman Book and distributing, and look at the way they were treated by some community members and also some of the editors and contributors of websites. Some of them wanted them also to be "excommunicated". In the end what happened, they were "blessed", by Our Beloved Hazar Imam. Don't get upset, just pray for them. Thank you.

* Canada

@ Murad
On October 18th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ya Aly madad, Murad! Mohez Nato has posted another comment in French (the title of it is "@ Kanize and @ Rabya", Oct. 17) and is allowing that it be translated in English; do you think you could provide the visitors of this page with the English translation of it as you did some weeks ago through your software?? If you can't, don't worry.

We haven't read you for quite a while, Murad, if I am not mistaken. I hope all is well with you. Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

IMMENSE IMPLICATIONS
On October 17th, 2010 dumbfounded (not verified) says:

I commented on May 13th under subject "whodunit?....... Imam or true believer (Literal transalation)"
and my suggestion then was:
"May I suggest a private sitting with the Imam and the defendants sometime in the upcoming visit to Canada. I could almost guarantee a super positive resolution! We already have indications from the defendants of their goodwill towards the Imam."

What has transpired in the last few months has immense implications, "IMMENSE IMPLICATIONS"

At the end of the meeting: quote! "The meeting ended with warm greetings and smiles. Imam left happy, saying "we will meet and work together". "Khouda Hafiz". end quote!
It surely seems like that the IMAM reached his desired goal!

I read, that we are reaching a turning point, we are going to open up our whole 'Tariqah' slowly but surely, act with honest intent to become an acceptable part of the wider 'UMMAH' as MOWLA has indicated many times prior. Our IMAM is now poised to take on a much more vital role and it is that of providing gravely needed leadership to the wider 'UMMAH'
InshAllah, Mowla's 'Firmans' and guidance will forthwith be shared wider than we have been accustomed to.

* Canada

@Ikram your last comment about the farmans and passwords
On October 17th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

You have quite a vision here, I hope that one day this will happen within our Jamat, but when with those kind of leaders??? For the moment, each farman is in paper version, it's forbidden to type them, each tariqua receives from the national a copy of it, and then they do copies to send to the jamatkhanas, computerizing is forbidden with capital F and you are talking about mp3. Mowla has a vision but the leaders don't follow, they like bureaucracy. I hope and pray, that your wish will be fulfilled. Ameen, probably the next generation will experience this... Your toughts are very interesting.

* Canada

The Vancouverite, The Ismaili.Net, and the ismailimail.wordpress
On October 17th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. ABUZZAR! I did not seek any apology from your good self or anybody! Honestly, speaking the formality and apology is not the issue. My sincere explanation in requesting you to be formal with me is to make you aware that we tend to use religion freely without realising the end result; or how it will be construed by the readers! When we are cornered, we immediately try to salvage our prestige by using the religious conviction. Is it fair!

Regarding PIR SHAH, you tend to suggest that you have enough grey cells like me to decipher any thoughts and comments. On the other hand, you appear to have a journalistic background and are rich in your expression. In India, my upbringing was also fashioned by both Ismailism and Pir Shah and to this day I recite these names from our wonderful tradition.

These under mentioned websites, i.e., the Vancouverite, The Ismaili.Net, and the ismailimail.wordpress.com; have been very kind to me by accepting my thoughts, comments, and narrative articles.

Of course, my thoughts and comments have been, censored, rejected, and have met with the silent snub.

Nevertheless, I have always remained proactive and honest in my expression.
Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Reality Check - Why an announcement sooner rather than later !
On October 17th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

The following shows how important it is for there to be an announcement in JK's by the LIF ?

Nightmare (not verified) Says October 17
The LIF, DJI, Councils and Ismaili Insitutional leaders all over the world should take note that Alnaz Jiwa will never change. The above is partial proof of his continued defiance and a window to his thinking. Alnaz Jiwa, many in the Jamat know your role since 1987. Do you recall the crusade you led against the Council, ITREB, Mukhis, Kamadias and other institutional leaders in 1987?

Do you want me to post some of the excerpts of Alnaz Jiwa bin bloglaw’s “open letters” on Vancouverite? Please say “yes” so the whole world can be aware of Alnaz Jiwa’s role, yes, the same arrogant Alnaz Jiwa who managed to drag the 49th direct descendant of the Prophet in the court; if the Imam had failed to appear, He would have been in “contempt of court”! This is the role of Alnaz Jiwa.

REPLY BY BLOGLAW October 17, 2010

Alnaz Jiwa did not infringe any copyright. He would have frankly won this case in any event. He is repsecting the decision and directions of the Imam. He did not publish the Farman Book. He is like thousands of others who bought the book or gave it to family and friends. Imam has said that all of them can keep the book.

So why do you want to go on a crusade against Alnaz Jiwa more important against the wishes or directions and guidance of the Imam. Why would any of the leaders want to do so either ?

We need a reality check here.

* United Kingdom

IMAMS DECISION MUST BE RESPECTED
On October 17th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

RESPONSE to Editor of vancouveritte who seems to be questioning Hazar Imams decision and directions?

Editor – it seems you are not satisfied and happy with what Hazar imam has decided and what Imam has directed. With respect most will be satisfied and happy. It seems you have some information
which most are not aware of regarding the 30 minute meeting or you are guessing? I will wait for more information and news from any or all who were present at that meeting and or LIF. I am sure most will do the same before jumping to conclusions as you seem to have done?

* United Kingdom

positive aspects of the meeting
On October 17th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

Those who took the meeting between HI and Nagib and Al Naz in a negative sense should know that:

1. HI was not bound to spend half an hour in the meeting, and yet he spent so much time out of his much valuable time.

2. Out of 30 minutes of his time, the official recording was just for 5 minutes only (which was directly related to the court matter), while the rest for guidance. And such guidance was for Nagib.

3. HI could have given even less than one minute for the meeting and would have said,’ Nagib, withdraw the forgery allegation, stop further printing and distribution, and agree to just court proceeding and court verdict then.’ This much was sufficient for Nagib who has no other alternative but to agree as he has given that binding to the court. Just after saying that, without hearing anything from Nagib, He would have left the meeting place.
But HI did not do this but spent five minutes for consented agreement which is to come afterward from the court as ‘consent judgment’, consented by the both parties.

4. During meeting HI said, “We will work together”. What does that mean? Nagib is neither a technical expert nor a management consultant or any thing related to HI’s projects around the world. All what he has done so far all these years is collecting and recording of each and every Farmans of Hazar Imam made by Him in every corner of the world. So working together means his services will be utilized by IIS in future for compiling and printing of Farmans in book form.
Even during cross examination, Dr. Sachedina agreed that Nagib is a part of solution.

5. Mr. Gray, during cross examination of Nagib, suggested that, ‘HI is unhappy and angry at you for this’. If that was the case then HI would have spent not more than a minute with him and Al Naz and this would have served the purpose. On the other hand, Maula was happy and smiling and spent enough time in giving guidance.

6. Who ever has filed the case (Mr. Gray?), he has involved Al Naz as a defendant party too. But when Nagib, by exonerating Al Naz, took every responsibility of printing etc., on himself and said to HI that Al Naz was not involved in it, HI simply said,’ yes, I know this.’ What does it mean? If HI knew that Al Naz was not involved, then how come his name was included as one of the defendants?

7. The meeting ended with warm greetings and smiles and HI was happy and left saying,’ we will meet again and work together’. Aren’t these words and body language of Maula has some specific significance?

8. HI said that copies already bought by Murids can be kept by them. What does it indicate? If these copies are to be thrown away or burnt, then he should have said so.

9. As far as asking of forgiveness by Nagib and Al Naz is concerned, it’s duty of every Murid to seek as much forgiveness of HI at every opportunity one gets. Aren’t we, in our daily jamatkana’s attendance, seek such forgiveness by saying, “ તોબો તોબો તકસીરદાર....બંદો ગુનેહગાર ...ગત બક્ષે શાહ પીર બક્ષે.” ?

10. Some time back, ‘ Another Ordinary Murid’ gave some useful advice to Nagib and Al Naz, and it was very much appreciated by them. This advice worked.

11. Everything happens related to Him, has many meanings and many aspects, and they have long lasting positive implications and outcomes. Why HI, intervened at this stage is better known to Him only. We have a proverb in Gujarati:
“ સામાન્ય માનવી એક કાંકરે એક પંખી પાડે, અનુભવી બાહોશ એક કાંકરે બે પંખી પાડે, પણ ભગવાન એક કાંકરે હજારો પંખી પાડે.”
Meaning: Ordinary human being’s action has one purpose (goal), wise and experienced one’s action has two purposes, but Allah’s action has thousands of purposes

Result of this event is going to be seen over generations.
On October 18th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

This was all Mawla's "leela"

A case that Mawla could have ended in a blink of a second got dragged for 6 months or more with so many revelations witnessed by others but there might be so many unseen by us also.

Nagib and Alnaz proved to be the modern Nusseris and Almuid Shirazi.
Only the future will be witness to the benefits of their (Nagib and Alnaz) deeds.
I think their generations are blessed. ( Nagib and Alnaz)
Only a select few have love enough to undergo this ordeal these 2 momins went through.
It was their intense love which brought Mawla for 30 minutes to them.

Mawla had to maintain the peace and integrity of the world jamat and leadership and Institutions
Nagib and Alnaz might have been the casualties but Mawla is divine he had to save everyone.
They instead of casualties are perhaps the highest benificiaries of this ordeal which is going to be translated into something so remarkable in their Zahiri and Batuni lives that they will be immensely grateful for whatever happened.

It was a "pure crazy love for Mawla" which surpasses hundreds of years of Ibadat.
It was a miracle for Anaz that he got dragged in . He is going to be immensely blessed.
Mawla is Omniscient , omnipotent.
Every action and every word Imam utters or does have meaning underlying
6 months of torure could not be for nothing.

There is a larger picture which only time will witness.
But to me it is all because of His will.These 2 were chosen momins.
Shukhar.To me they are the modern Nusseiris and Almuid Shirazi

* United States

Thank you for sharing. I
On October 17th, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

Thank you for sharing. I hope everyone involved will share this with the Jamat.

* United Arab Emirates

Re: above post of Asif Momin of Oct. 17
On October 17th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
One other positive outcome, if I may add, brother Asif, is that the credibility of the institutions in the eyes of the people outside the jamat is saved from being damaged and hurt as Mr. Sachedina is saved from having to face consequences that would have been most detrimental and so terribly sad for all. Al-hamdulillah! Shukhar Mowla! We are saved.
And if I may also add re: your point # 4, perhaps that work will also include the project of Khojki that was so dear to Mowla Bapa (as indicated in the affidavit of July 14 ).
And, Insh'Allah, from now on, faraamin will no longer be changed before being read to jamats and will be identical to the very words spoken by Hazer Imam during a Darbar or Mulaqat.

Let us hope that the religious education given to Ismaili children will include the basic tenets of the faith, particularly the significance of farman and ginan, the implication and meaning of the bayyat given to Hazer Imam: as some commentators on this site have said it repeatedly, no Imam can ever go against the bayyat given to Him and accepted by Him, and thus, no Imam can ever sue a mureed. Let us also hope that parents will make the effort to send their children to the religious classes and will also sow, themselves, the seed of iman in their children from their very youngest age.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

ottawa citizen
On October 16th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Guys,

I just went to read Ottawa citizen. oh suprise, it's written that Mowla persuaded Nagib and Alnaz that He did not want this book to be published. What a confusion and a twist of things !!! Sachedina did not get the point and Gray does not want to admit that he lost the case, will Sachedina and Manji spread this kind of information around the world and the Jamatkhanas?? This leader is such a liar, he lost all the credibilities. Mowla rahem kare. Ameen

* Canada

Re: above post of rabya of Oct. 16
On October 17th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Merciful Lord! No wonder my instinct was telling me to continue to pray hard...It seems we aren't done with disappointments and distress, alas...Indeed, Mowla rahèm karta rahè...Ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

That article wasn't too bad
On October 16th, 2010 Ikram (not verified) says:

The Ottawa Citizen article was actually somewhat fair I find, at least compared to the drivel written by Vancouverite. Dr. Sachedina definitely didn't get the point though.His cross-examination, especially when related to the concept of Farman, was particularly disturbing. If any such policies start trickling down from the top ...

Also, about Gray not admitting defeat, he's just doing his job of defending his client. For all we know, he's a decent human being. Let's not shoot the messenger shall we?

Now let us pray and wait for what will happen afterward. Perhaps, with Mowla's blessing, the book, or the contents in a different format, can be officially reviewed and published in Jamatkhanas, at the very least to give more Farmans for Mukhi/Kamadias to read during religious ceremonies.

* Canada

That article wasn't too bad
On October 17th, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

Ikram, when your client and here His Highness the Aga Khan (that's what they told us) and our Mowla says to you that we put this matter to rest then it is an order. There is no need to argue with Him and Mr Gray has to accept this. And again we have to be very humble and pray Mowla Subudi diye.Ameen.

* Canada

Put yourself in Gray's shoes
On October 18th, 2010 Ikram (not verified) says:

Consider that you are Brian Gray. As far as you know, you pretty much have an airtight case and your client is proposing to just drop everything rather than see the defendants punished. Of course you're going to argue for the whole thing to continue. Especially if you're not Ismaili and do not understand the concept of Imamat as it applies to Ismailis. I personally think that there is very little to question about Gray's actions and motives in general. Maybe he could have done some things differently, but what's done is done. Not meeting the big boss is fairly standard when the lawsuit involves a somewhat large organisation, as it did in this case, whatever the name of the lawsuit pretends. If Microsoft or Apple sues you, the likelihood that the likes of Bill Gates or Steve Jobs will show up is very small.

Again, this post reflects what I believe is Gray's perspective, this is not a statement of opinion on my part.

* Canada

WILL GUIDANCE TRANSLATION INTO ACTION - THE PATH AHEAD
On October 17th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

What is most important is what happens going forward. If this becomes a hush hush and the leaders in question are allowed to continue as before then they will frustrate the 2 murids, delays, marginalise top down. If however there is change which is translated into action to address the root causes, then we will have change quickly and change for the better.

In His wonderful and inspiring lecture, Imam talked about the path ahead and the discussion after the speech was enlightening. Amongst the issue of institutional structures and review, Imam advised that a key challenge is the mindset of leaders and owners. Mawla talked about predicting, predictability and preempting. Also about enabling beneficiaries (Murids in our case) to become masters of processes where competence and merit are rewarded. Mawla talked about the inescapable explosion of information and of the media and how it can be used to lead and also to mislead.

Imam said He knows about Alnaz's role and talked about meeting again and working together. Therefore I hope there is change and not more of the same. I hope there is an LIF announcement soon so that the Jamat knows and they do not believe some of the misleading information. This will depend on murids (and other leaders) to ask & share where the leaders in question do not share and action what has been agreed or what are the wishes, guidance and directions of the Imam.

I disagree woth you Ikram that we should settle for a few more farmans in JK, when Imam has said all those who have the book can keep the book and of course share it with their family and friends and in the court openly said we have access to farmans. Mukhi's represent the Imam in JK's and have full control in JK's and of their jamat's.The ground realities need to reflect guidance too.

To be fair the article does quote Dr SS or Mr Gray, and we should not speculate what may have been said behind the scenes.

* United Kingdom

More Farmans in JK would be a short term goal
On October 17th, 2010 Ikram (not verified) says:

Having more Farmans in Jamatkhana would be a start, a good first step if you will. I agree that it is not enough, but if the full contents of the book are at least available in all Jamatkhanas within say, the next 3-5 years (allowing for things such as institutional inertia, any further content reviews that may be done, repackaging, infrastructure changes to accommodate a higher volume of materials circulating back and forth, and so on), it will still be a major step forward and a good foundation to build on.

Perhaps these changes would also be a good excuse to improve the communication infrastructure within our Jamat with better, more streamlined processes and technologies to be able to reach more of the Jamat faster. For example, instead of faxing Farmans and carrying tapes around, there could be a password-protected website which stores PDFs and MP3s for leaders and Mukhi/Kamadias to access. Such a system, with some modifications, could also be extended to reach the entire Jamat and could also be used to communicate institutional announcements and guidance much more quickly to Jamats, especially for those living in areas where there is less convenient access to Jamatkhana. A system like that could also drive investment in communication infrastructure in Ismaili communities where there is little access and could position Jamatkhanas in these communities as the place to access global information and expertise. Another example would be to foster worldwide discussions and analysis of Farmans in the Jamat, not only as small groups in Jamatkhana, but as a connected network within the global Jamat in which our scholars and al-Waez can contribute to discussions and disseminate information.

But many of these fit in a long term vision and would need a comprehensive solution, and so a more short term plan like the one I mentioned in my previous post could fill the gap meanwhile.

* Canada

Access farmans @ Ikram
On October 18th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

I hope the end of this case is a catalyst for the begining of the reversal of Institutional inertia. Content review of Farmans should not be a reason not to give access to farmans and to wait for 3-5 years. Some 5000 books are already officially with members of the Jamat as directed by the Imam. There may be other reasons ?

* United Arab Emirates

Will action speak louder than words?
On October 17th, 2010 Murid (not verified) says:

Well said Bloglow Sir/Madam.

The proof of the pudding is the joint responsibility of all the four present to ensure Imams gudance and directions are shared with leaders and the jamat, and most important translated into action.

Jamat and leaders will be happy to get more news from Alnaz. Nagib and LIF/Leadership soon.

* United Kingdom

So what has changed from this time last week?
On October 17th, 2010 shaukat (not verified) says:

Pardon me for being totally lost here (no I was not one of the lucky 33 buried in a mine) but I fail to understand why the sentiment here is no different than it was a week ago - other then perhaps a few more shukars etc. Are all your readers privy to information that even Jamati leaders (not LIF but possibly including them) do not have? How have some concluded that Sachedina and Manji were "chastised" and Nagib and Alnaz exonerated? Pray give us the code to the secret site where they are drawing their information from.

* United Kingdom

Still some details to resolve
On October 16th, 2010 Ikram (not verified) says:

Well, it certainly is a relief that the case has been settled.

However, I still have some questions:

* Why did Alnaz get sued in the first place if MHI knew he wasn't involved in the publication? Did MHI think, let me give Nagib a free lawyer?
* Sachedina, in his cross-examination, stated that Farmans were not Farmans until the published, edited version comes around. Does this mean that all the Farmans that never came out are retroactively removed from history? That many of the jokes MHI made during the Golden Jubilee Farmans were just mistakes? What does this imply for the meaning of Didars? Are they now completely useless?
* Websites and online distribution seemed to be a major concern from the court documents, yet, from what I gather from the settlement post, that wasn't an issue at all for MHI. What's up with that?

There are any number of other discrepancies/unresolved issues, but I feel that those are the main ones.

* Canada

Importance of Farmans
On October 17th, 2010 Farmanbardari (not verified) says:

Our Imams have always reminded us of importance of Farmans. What is the logic of depriving the Jamat of it?

Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah said:

"When I open My mouth for Farmans, I am giving you heaps of pearls, but only those momins who pass the test are able to understand the value of these pearls; they understand what thing they have obtained.
In the same way that seeds are sown in the earth, you should sow My Farmans in your heart. They will bear good fruit.
Do not let My Farmans in from one ear and out from the other."

* Canada

Erroneous Conclusion
On October 16th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Some of the commentators at Vancouverite are too impatient. They have arrived at some of the conclusions which are not there at all. Can not they wait for the ‘consented judgment’ from the court? Every thing would be cleared then.

Above post of Nato Mohez (Oct. 15 addressed to Kanize)
On October 16th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

effectivement Kanize, vous avez bien raison, il y a une leçon à tirer de tout cet imbroglio, car je ne peux pas l'appeler procès. J'espère que nos dirigeants vont comprendre le message et je me demande si particulièrement SS a compris la décision de son geste. M Nato vos commentaires ont toujours été judicieux. Hier dans son speech Mowla a parlé des leaders aussi en se demandant s'ils bâtissaient ou s'ils détruisaient. J'ai eu l'impression que c'était destiné à quelqu'un. Enfin, tout est réglé, il ne faut pas oublier que les familles ont subi aussi des revers. J'espère aussi que le Jamat est conscient de ce qui s'est passé hier. Je me demande si on doit s'attendre à une annonce encore du LIF... ce qui m'étonnerait.

Ya ali Madad

* Canada

@kanize,@Rabya
On October 17th, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madat,
Ouf! quel soulagement! Comment retenir ses larmes! Il y a longtemps que ce "lawsuit", oui, Rabia, je ne dis pas procès car je n'aime pas ce terme! ce n'est pas digne et pour Mowla Bapa et pour Sa Communauté! me turlupinait l'esprit! j'étais malheureux!

Mowla Bapa nous a fait deux cadeaux inestimables en venant au Canada! que je vous envie! je crois que je finirais mes vieux jours parmi vous! Mowla vous adore! vous êtes Ses Murids à l'avant garde du progrès des jamats et Il attend, nous aussi attendons beaucoup de vous! Vous êtes Ses Purs MUrids!
La noblesse de son geste envers Nagib et Alnaj releve pour moi d'essence divine! et Son discours sur le Pluralisme, mais quel discours, quelle vision, quelles convictions dites avec modestie, humilité....c'est seulement l'expression de Son Noor lumineux!

Nous devions être fiers d'avoir notre Imam du Temps présent qui repand Ses convictions avec une telle humilité, modestie, sur la diversité, le pluralisme, la méritocratie, la bonne gouvernance, la compassion, la génerosité, l'Islam tolérant et Islam , style de vie et l'équilibre Deen et Dunia! Que tous ces rayons Lumineux , ces étincelles qui brillent dans notre monde bien malade sont aussi pour nous, pour nous protéger et pour nous préparer, nous , nos enfants et petits enfants pour un monde meilleur, apaisé ! pour que Ses disciples vivent en paix, en securité, acceptés partout par ce qu'ils appliquent Ses directives, Ses farmans! Sukrans , Sukrans MOn bien aimé Mowla!

Et dans Sa vision, si le Leasdership pouvait l'aider! nous accompagner! Il est là le temps du changement! beaucoup d'ismailis silencieux attendent ce déclic! pas de rupture brutale mais que le Leadership que l'on ne conteste pas , bien au contraire, sur qui Mowla Bapa a mis toute Sa confiance, ce leadeship applique donc le pluralisme, l'esprit d'équipe, la méritocratie, la diversité même des opinions, accepter toutes les bonnes volontés dans le jamat pour répondre aux besoins du Jamat, aux aspirations de Mowla Bapa,! que l'on s'implique sérieusement sur Sa demande durant les Darbar du GJ sur la pauvreté, la dignité des Seniors, l'avenir ce jeunes générations! Il faut que le Leadership change et s'ouvre plus aux sensibilités de tous les membres du Jamat!

Merci pour vos commentaires gentils à mon egard! je ne suis qu'un simple murid francophone mais j'ai beaucoup de choses à dire à nos leaders francophones,s'ils acceptent la tolérance et la méritocratie!
Que Mowla nous garde tous sur la voie droite du Siratal-Mustaquim

mohez nato
ps je vous autorise à traduire en anglais mes propos

* France

Ouf! quel soulagement
On October 17th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Il faut attendre la suite... Je ne pense pas que le jamat soit conscient ou qu'on soit conscient de la chance qu'on a d'être né Ismaili et d'avoir un Imam pour nous guider à travers ses Farmans. We behave like if it is granted to us. Listen again the speech of Mrs Clarkson, how she introduced MHI. Other communties are waiting for his advices, big names of this world consult him, and we his murids, do not give a darn of what he says... He has to repeat and repeat and repeat again and again the samething every time..

* Canada

Shukar
On October 16th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

What a relief!!! Shukar Mowla for everything, Alnaz and Nagib, this is your day, you have sticked to your point and what you did is what fidais do. This meeting should have been granted in May. But probably Mowla wanted to show us how a leader can be completely wrong in his interpretation of the faith even if he is so close to him. It reminds me again Sultan Mohamed Shah's farman that I already posted on this forum. Shukar Mowla and what a slap for SS. I am wondering how vancouverite will twist the story...

* Canada

Re: above post of rabya of Oct. 16
On October 17th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Touché !! (cf. votre dernière ligne ! :-) ; elle résume si bien tout ce que ce site-là a présenté à date ce me semble !) Insh'Allah, Bloglaw will respond to them :-).
And you might be right in saying that Mowla Bapa probably wanted us to see a few things...But what agony, man! In every way ! If we felt so bad, I wonder how the families of Nagib and Alnaz felt and how they lived these past six months or more...
And I think we still need to pray very hard during the coming days, perhaps weeks, for things to go smoothly and end the way Mowla Bapa would wish it...
Ya Aly madad.
P.S. Thank you for your reply to my post :-).

* Canada

MR. BLOGLAW, YOU WERE CHALLENGING!
On October 16th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. BLOGLAW! I would like to thank you for your kindheartedness to acknowledge my comments and thoughts. I appreciate your fine sentiments. Please convey my apology to all your associates if I was condescending or blunt in my input in Ismaili.Net, and the Vancouverite. I meant no harm and rebuke ness! Thank you and bye for now! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

"THANK YOU AND ALLAH HAFEZ"
On October 16th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, LIBERIAN UMED! I would like to thank you for your kindness in accepting my comments and thoughts. Please convey my apology to all your contributors if I was condescending or blunt in my input in Ismaili.Net. Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

WE BRING DOWN THE CURTAINS ON THIS EPISODE
On October 16th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. NEWS EDITOR! Foremost, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you sincerely from the bottom of my heart for being an excellent moderator, and Guru on newscast. You have weathered the charged emotions, raw sentiments, and reaction with retort ion! You have been very kind to me, and your big-heartedness in accepting all my comments and thoughts. I am very, very grateful to you for this very fine gesture and association.

Secondly, I would like to beg forgiveness of all contributors in the Vancouverite as well as the Ismaili.Net. From this episode, I have experienced bountiful of knowledge and generosity which will be framed in my fond memories!

I do not think I will be able to continue anymore as my sentiment and emotion would be disloyal to me by revealing my soft side! Therefore, I will bring down the curtain on this episode with Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

@Mr Shivji
On October 17th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Mr Shivji, thank you for your postings.

As you said to "bring down the curtains on this episode". We all are Spiritual Children of Our Beloved Hazar Imam, and we should always make Him happy, because He loves each an everyone one of us. May Allah shower His Blessings upon you and may Our Beloved Hazar Imam bless you with His Zaheri and Batuni Deedar, Ameen. Thank you.

* Canada

To reciprocal your good wishes word to word
On October 18th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Yam Ms. Yasmin! I will extend this very opportunity to reciprocal your good wishes word to word! We all are spiritual children of our beloved Hazar imam, and we should always make him happy, because he loves each and everyone one of us.

“May Allah shower his loving blessings upon all Ismaili Muslims and may our beloved Hazar Imam bless us with his zaheri and batuni deedar”, amen! Allah Hafez, Nizar ail K. Shivji!

“To Build a Culture of Tolerance in a Turbulent Time.”
On October 17th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MS YASMIN! I have always believed that Mawlana Hazar Imam wants the Ismaili Muslim Community to always remain united and steadfast in their religious belief by becoming more active, diligent, and tolerant. However, we have to be cautious not to use the religion or our personal belief freely without realising the end result; or how it will be construed by the readers! Some of us have a tendency when we are cornered; we immediately try to salvage our prestige by using the religious conviction. Is it fair?

The world today is teeming with challenges. The better way to face these challenges is to venture into it! It is difficult but by being resilient is way to “To Build a Culture of Tolerance in a Turbulent Time.” As a result, “I BOW TO THE WILL OF ALLAH, AND I PROSTRATE TO HIM!” Everyday my life becomes challenging but there is always a way out.

It will not behove me to keep the Skeleton in the cupboard of bitterness, animosity, hostility, unfriendliness, ill will, and bad blood. The history will definitely judge those who have gone astray and left the path of righteousness!

In concluding, May Allah helps Mr. Nagib Tajdin and Mr. Alnaz I. Jiwa in their quest to become worthy in Ismaili Muslim Community. I have nothing more to say other than, they are our Ismaili brethren!

These under mentioned websites, i.e., the Vancouverite, The Ismaili.Net, and the ismailimail.wordpress.com; have been very kind to me by accepting my thoughts, comments, and narrative articles. Of course, my thoughts and comments have been, censored, rejected, and have met with the silent snub. Nevertheless, I have always remained proactive and honest in my expression. I have never expressed my thoughts and comments in appeasement to others!

I hope, I am not condescending immodest! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

@Mr Shivji
On October 18th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad Mr Shivji. Thank you for your kind words. Once again, Thank you.

* Canada

WE CAN DISAGREE BUT WE DO CARE
On October 16th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Mr Shivji All of us went through many challenging moments, tears and emotions. Like you, we all did so because we care. This has been one of the most sensitive and and unprecedented event in pur lives, and a milestone. A new era has begun and for thank we must be thankful to Hazar Imam and to thank especially Nagib, Alnaz, Dr Sachedina and M Manji.

* United Kingdom

A NEW ERA HAS BEGUN!
On October 18th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

YAM, MR. BLOGLAW! Of course, a new era has begun! I hope and pray that the Almighty Allah will not subject us to similar trial and tribulations again! I do not understand why our religion, faith, and loyalty were tested in these harsh circumstances! I have pondered and thought about this over and over but the only answer I am getting is that “ALLAH WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS.” This appears to be an unexplained phenomenon!

This new era has made us strong and humbles us in these turbulent times. It teaches to be tolerant and charitable, and gradually moving us away from, arrogance, vanity, and egoism. Further, it is showing us a way to have consideration for others because anyone can be victimized, discriminated and prejudiced. I think tolerance and humbleness should be the norm in our lives. Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

I am sorry but thanks are
On October 17th, 2010 shaukat (not verified) says:

I am sorry but thanks are due to Allah and Hazar Imam only - the rest were just the conduits. Can you enlighten us as to what this new era is as we have not been privy to what Hazar Imam has directed?

* United Kingdom

Nagib and Alnaz
On October 15th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Mubarak to both of you for being in the presence of Our Beloved Hazar Imam. I was very touched to read the posting by Heritage Site. Thank you Umed. Nagib and Alnaz, I have always said that Our Beloved Hazar Imam loves all His Murids. He is "rehami and dayaru". Shukhar. May Allah shower His Blessings upon both of you. Ameen. Thank you

* Canada

Nagib and Alnaz
On October 15th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

I would like to add to my above post that Nagib, you had mentioned that if you were given an opportunity to have a 5 minute meeting with Our Beloved Hazar, you would take His instructions. It was your strong faith ("iman") that made it happen, He had a meeting with you. Thank you.

* Canada

* Canada

Copyright Lawsuit: Imam Appears for Discovery and Ends the Case
On October 15th, 2010 heritage says:

Heritage news was able to speak briefly with the defendants to ask our burning questions: Did the discovery happen? How long? What was accepted by whom? What was not mentioned? What were the main messages? Here are some answers:

- The discovery did happen, Hazar Imam arrived with Sachedina and Manji.

- The meeting lasted a half-hour of which barely 5 minutes were on the record. Most guidance was given off the record.

- Nagib asked no questions. He then waited for instructions.

- Imam said to put this matter to rest and consent to judgment and withdraw allegations of forgery.

- Imam said "we will work together" and we will meet again.

- Imam said that copies already bought by murids can be kept by them and do not have to be returned.

- Both Nagib Tajdin and Alnaz Jiwa asked for forgiveness more than once, and each time Imam said everything is forgotten (as if never happened.).

- Nagib said he was taking full responsibility for the publication and Alnaz had not participated in the publication, and Imam said he knows.

- The meeting ended with warm greetings and smiles. Imam left happy, saying "we will meet and work together". "Khouda Hafiz"

"discovery issue "
On October 15th, 2010 Nadia. A Jiwani (not verified) says:

Shukhar allah an amicable close has reached on this subject.....

* Canada

Re: above post of heritage of Oct. 15
On October 15th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Please, could you explain what the words "consent to judgment" mean? Which judgment?
Thank you in advance.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

A consent judgment is a
On October 16th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

A consent judgment is a final, binding judgment in a case in which both parties agree, by stipulation, to a particular outcome. A consent judgment is used in order to settle an issue before a court and to end litigation. A consent judgment is often rendered by a judge in the form of a consent decree.``

According to Supreme court : A final judgment of a court entered by agreement of the parties. A consent decree terminates litigation but binds only the parties, not persons who were not parties to the litigation.

* Canada

Re: above post of heritage of Oct. 16
On October 16th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you so much, Librarian-umed, for replying to my question. In this case, does this mean that Mr. Sachedina and the defendants have now to appear in front of a judge to say, the first that he is dropping the case of copy right, and the defendants that they are withdrawing the evidence about the forgery? Is that what this means ? Sorry if I ask too many questions, but I need to make sure I have understood it right...
Thank you in advance.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Thank you for clarifying
On October 16th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Thank you for clarifying this. Many may not appreciate the confidence & trust Hazar Imam has in the 2 murids to work together and follow guidance for 30 minutes to Dr Sachedina , M Manji, A Jiwa & N Tajdin which will be shared as directed by Hazar Iman amongst. the leadership and the jamat. I agree we should all be patient and look forward to hearing from the leadership and also from Alnaz and Nagib through this website. Meanwhile more , prayers, unity, and enjoy surfing and the resources on this website.

* United Kingdom

Re: above post of heritage of Oct. 15
On October 15th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Mubaraki to all of us!!! Shukhar Mowla !!!
Thank you for sharing the news !!!
Mille mercis ! Mowla tamaro bhalo karè, ameen !!!
Ya Aly madad!

* Canada

Only divine can give this ending
On October 15th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Could not have been a better outcome than this one.
"Tara bandane tu hi tare to nam rahe Ilahi"
"You are are the one who has to save your believers ,only then you can be called divine"
He saved everyone.
Shukhar Alhamdallah

* United States

@ HERITAGE SAYS::
On October 15th, 2010 NASH HUDDA CANADA (not verified) says:

SHUKRAN! SHUKRAN! SHUKRAN! MAY OUR LORD OUR BELOVED HAZAR IMAM FORGIVE EVERYONE FOR THEIR SINS AND ALL THEIR PAST MISTAKES AND MAY WE ALL LIVE IN PEACE AND HARMONY AS TRUE BROTHERS AND SISTERS WITH ALL THE ISMAILIS AROUND THE GLOBE. AMEEN....SUMMA AMEEN YA-RABBAL ALEMEEN."KHUSHIYA MANNAVO NACHO GAAVO YEH HAI HUMARE PYAARE MOWLA KI SHAAN."

* Canada

Re: above post of Nash Hudda of Oct. 15
On October 15th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ameen! Summa ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Sukhran lilah Alhamdullilah
On October 15th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Sukhran lilah Alhamdullilah and Mumbaraki to Alnaz and Nagib.

* United Kingdom

From what I am reading right
On October 15th, 2010 Iman (not verified) says:

From what I am reading right now about the meeting with HI I convey Mubaraki to Mr Naguib and Mr Jiwa. Please do not be afraid . He is our spiritual father. He is the 'Awal' and He is the 'Akhar'.Ask all the questions that are there in your heart and mind to him. This chance will never come back again.

* United Kingdom

Please, Let this END now.....
On October 15th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Those of you who now cry out "HUSH HUSH" etc., and still cast a shadow of doubt on "Mowla" and many do not even have the decency to address Him properly, should at least now that things have gone so far just wait and see what the outcome of this extremely unfortunate event will be.

You should, at least now, stop speculating and specially "STOP" declaring the WINNERS and LOSERS (in this case you directly or ndirectly refer to LIF and the Leaders etc.). There is no WINNER in THIS.

The biggest LOSER is the Ismaili Community at Large and the embarassment and the pain this must have caused and must still be causing to our beloved Mowla (I am sure you will all agree) can not be described in words.

I humbly request everybody, yet again, "Please contain yourselves and do not write any more by being carried away in "the heat of time events & circumstances" and please, stop the speculations and inuendos and slander of one or the other party".

What is the use of "HUSH HUSH" now when people have exposed this matter to the rest of the WORLD, making us the
LAUGHING STOCK.

I have urged for restraint and containment, and I do so again HUMBLY.

Let us all pray for all involved.

Let us pray that Mowla is merciful to those who have failed Him and the Community at large (and we donot know who those are - It is only Mowla who knows. Is it the Leaders? is it the Defendents? Only Mowla knows.).

These are extremely trying times for all of us. It is HORRIBLE To have been exposed in this way by the mistakes and greed for POWER of whoever they may be - again it is Mowla who knows who they are.

Finally, no one is a Winner here. It has been a lose-lose situation right from the begining. Let this END now.

I shall not be responding to any comments to this my "posting". It will only mess things up more.

I render my prayers for all of us and pray that Mowla will Bless us for "sudbuddi", patience, tolerance and forgiveness and help us be better persons in future. I hope you will all join me in these prayers.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

tajikistan
On October 15th, 2010 Sabzali (not verified) says:

I do share your concerns, but still think if it was not Mawla's will that this case went so far. There is some changes may occur as a result. Mawla knows best

* Tajikistan

Case Management Judge Enforces The Order for Discovery
On October 14th, 2010 heritage says:

From what we understand,

A case management conference was held today because Mr Gray was looking to avoid following the order for a 15-minute discovery, even though he had stated on Oct 12th to the Ottawa Citizen Newspaper, perhaps as a bluff, that his client would comply if the order for Discovery was upheld.

On Oct 14, the case management Judge enforced her order from Sept 29 which was upheld in appeal on October 13:

- Judge requires nothing from Mr Jiwa as he has waived his right to discovery if Mr Tajdin obtains a 15-minute discovery of the Plaintiff.

- Judge requires Mr Tajdin to give a copy of his documents to Mr Gray, preferable by email when possible, by 8h30 tomorrow morning.

- Judge allows the discovery time to be changed, however, she requires the Plaintiff to choose, by 9h30 tomorrow morning, a time for a 15 minute discovery that is to happen anytime between 10 am Friday and 2pm on Saturday at an undisclosed location.

- Judge did not concede to any technicalities mentioned by Mr Gray to avoid discovery, and believed the undertakings by the defendants to obey the Aga Khan' instructions.

At this point, if Mr Gray was bluffing, and the Aga Khan is not indeed his client in this action, then his bluff has been called. If He cannot produce the Aga Khan for discovery by 2pm on Saturday, then the stage is set for the whole statement of claim of the Plaintiff to be stricken.

Full Text of the Directions from the Court Docket:

Oral directions recieved from the Court: Mireille Tabib, Prothonotary dated 14-OCT-2010
directing that "The Defendant Tajdin has complied with the Order of 24-SEP-2010.

In view of the fact that the Defendant Jiwa has formally waived his own rights of discovery of the Plaintiff, and confirmed that waiver at the telephone conference, the Defendant Jiwa's failure to serve an affidavit of documents is not material to the operation of the Order of September 24. The Notice to Attend is therefore valid and operative.

The Defendant Tajdin is obliged to provide copies of the documents listed in Schedule 1 of his affidavit of documents, as requested by the Plaintiff, and is not entitled to withhold them until the discovery. The Defendant Tajdin shall coordinate with counsel for the Plaintiff to deliver these copies to the Plaintiff's counsel as efficiently and soon as possible, by email where possible and more expeditious, and otherwise in paper, aiming to deliver them this evening, but in any event, no later than 8:30 a.m. on 15-OCT-2010.

In any event, and to the extent the lateness of the delivery of documents prevents the Plaintiff from having made the preparation required by the Rules, the Defendant will not be allowed to avail himself of the remedies provided in the Rules for that failure.

At the telephone conference, the Plaintiff requested and the Defendant agreed to change the venue stated in the Notice to Attend to the location identified by counsel for the Plaintiff at the telephone conference. Also, the Plaintiff requested and the Defendant consented, that if it was found that a time for the examination, other than 10 am as stated in the Notice to Attend, would be more convenient to the Plaintiff, that time could be changed to any time between 11:30 am on 15-OCT-2010 to 2 p.m. on 16-OCT-2010, upon the Plaintiff so advising the Defendant by 9:30 a.m. on 15-OCT-2010.

Both the Defendant Jiwa and the Defendant Tajdin undertook, at the Plaintiff's request, to not disclose to any person other than the parties or the Court the venue and the time of the examination on discovery." placed on file on 14-OCT-2010 Confirmed in writing to the party(ies)

Above post of Heritage (Oct. 14)
On October 15th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Dear Heritage staff,
Accept my heartfelt thanks for keeping us informed by posting the above, and especially, for also including the rendering of the Court Docket in plain English so that people like me can understand properly what is being said :-) ! Thanks a million!
May Mowla Bapa's wish and will be done. Ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@kanize
On October 15th, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madat,
I am not a lawyer and my english is little broken, so I cannot understand properly all the juridic aspects during these last 2 days! But, it is sure that I doubled prayers, went to Ibadat this morning, and my prayers are not only for the defendants Nagib and Alnaz but also for Dr SS, LIF and all Ismailis around the world. Mowla keep us all in the right way of Siratal-Mustaquim!
At the beginning of this lawsuit, I declare everywhere and wrote many times that this lawsuit is not good, is very sad for our Community! I wam very unhappy but I know, Mowla is Mercifull and He knows everything!
Please, all people in this site, keep quiet, pray and stay humble! Yes, Kanize, I agree, "Mowla Bapa's wish and will be done". It is time for me to go to JK for my rendez vous with Our Mowla Bapa!
Ya Ali Madat and many thanks to Heritage Staff
mohez nato

* France

Above post of Nato Mohez (Oct. 15 addressed to Kanize)
On October 15th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Merci bien pour ce message; oui, je comprends très bien ce que vous ressentez et ce que vous avez exprimé et je crois deviner ce que vous n'avez pas pu exprimer dans ce mot.

Tout le monde retient son soufle en ce moment, on est tous, passez-moi l'expression, "suspendus", pour ainsi dire, aux "lèvres" du personnel de ce site qui affichera ou n'affichera pas le résultat de ce qui se passe en ce moment-même peut-être ou va se passer d'un moment à l'autre. L'attente semble parfois intenable, d'autant plus qu'on ne sait pas combien de la vérité nous sera présenté...

Tout le monde sur ce site est d'accord avec vous pour dire que ce procès est faux, néfaste, nuisible et tout à fait déplacé, vu qu'aucun Imam n'irait à l'encontre du bayyat qu'Il a accepté d'un mureed. Quant aux commentaires qu'on lit sur ce site, croyez-moi, ils sont bien plus décents (même les pires !) que ce qui peut se lire ailleurs: le peu que j'aie eu le courage de parcourir sur un autre site (et cela par accident !) (un site fréquenté par des non ismaéliens pardessus le marché !) m'a donné la nausée...Je crois qu'il y a du bon à ce que nos frères et soeurs ismaéliens puissent "se défouler" en exprimant leurs avis et leurs sentiments quelque part; beaucoup d'entre eux, vous l'aurez remarqué, ont été fort blessés de par le passé par les dirigeants, et c'est de là que vient leur amertume, leur sarcasme ou leur sagesse et compassion. Vous-même, je n'en doute pas, vous avez pu toucher beaucoup de gens par vos propos modérés et par vos exhortations au calme et à la retenue. Tout le monde, hélas, n'est pas capable de garder le silence et de se taire sans exploser à l'intérieur ou à l'extérieur...Et je crois qu'il n'est pas mauvais, bien au contraire, que les dirigeants eux-mêmes prennent le "pouls" de la communauté en parcourant ce qui se dit ici--et ailleurs. Mais je suppose, hélas, que ce serait trop demander et que c'est tout à fait utopique d'espérer qu'ils consultent ce site...Et qui d'entre nous aura le courage ou l'occasion ! de leur dire, avec politesse, de façon respectueuse et articulée, ce qu'on pense de tout ceci et des torts qu'il faudrait réparer et des erreurs à ne plus répéter...

Quant au langage compliqué (un vrai charabia pour moi, et d'autres, sans aucun doute !) des annonces venant de la cour, cette fois-ci on nous en a donné une version en anglais ordinaire, j'espère que vous en aurez saisi la teneur.

J'espère que vous pourrez suivre la retransmission en direct de l'allocution que Mowla Bapa va faire sous peu à Toronto.

Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Will we ever know the real thing?
On October 15th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

What I can gather is that it will be hush hush .. from now on.
Nagib might be asked to remain quiet about everthing?
We may not know what happened at the meeting?
Did Nagib speak with HI on phone? or only the attorney?

* United States

It may be hush hush. It will
On October 15th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

It may be hush hush. It will be whatever Imam wants. Peace in the community is more important than other considerations. This is the time to bring the lawsuit to conclusion. We'll know soon.

* Canada

This is ismaili internal matter
On October 14th, 2010 sadrudin (not verified) says:

YAM.

From day one, I felted that LIF exceeded its authority and brought the matter in media. What the court is saying that this matter is Ismaili's internal matter and need to resolve internally.

Imam have advocated all the time to use arbitration that has established. Of course in the matter of arbitration procedure Imam is final authority and people can appeal to that level.

What LIF did, they went too far to compromise Imam's right which was established 1400 years ago by the Hazarat Ali.

So it is time that this blog be removed and let Imam speak to defendants directly and LIF.

Imam is available to HIS murid all the time not when LIF allows.

* United States

LIF CAN AND MUST DO SO ?
On October 15th, 2010 BLOGLAW (not verified) says:

I agree LIF Chairman and the executive committee allowed Dr SS to by pass the Chairman and their exec committee in sending the announcements. Dr SS I am certain will have said to them that the Imam has authorised the contents of the announcements. What did they do after the lawsuit started and the defense was received ?

We do not know what the LIF have done since the start of the case or are they waiting for guidance or the case to be decided by the court or concluded before they proactively seek clarification and guidance from the Imam. What efforts were made to try to settle this case.

Does for example LIF Chairman and the executive Board continue to rely totally on what Dr SS & MM are communicating to the Chairman and the exec committee, or are they seeking clarification where they need to including on this lawsuit.. Did they have a joint session of the top 60 odd leaders in London recently to discuss this lawsuit. In the current Leadership programmes are there any sessions to address the ground realities highlighted by this case. I hope and pray that Imam will meet the 2 murids and there will be change for the better.

If so, in the next 3 years WILL be more than the last 10 or what we WILL in the next 10 years , and both materially and spiritually.. I say this with humility and conviction.

* United Kingdom

Is the meeting agreed and fixed ?
On October 14th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Does the following mean that the meeting was agreed and is taking pace today or will tomorrow?

"...At the telephone conference, the Plaintiff requested and the Defendant agreed to change the venue stated in the Notice to Attend to the location identified by counsel for the Plaintiff at the telephone conference. Also, the Plaintiff requested and the Defendant consented, that if it was found that a time for the examination, other than 10 am as stated in the Notice to Attend, would be more convenient to the Plaintiff, that time could be changed to any time between 11:30 am on 15-OCT-2010 to 2 p.m. on 16-OCT-2010, upon the Plaintiff so advising the Defendant by 9:30 a.m. on 15-OCT-2010.
Both the Defendant Jiwa and the Defendant Tajdin undertook, at the Plaintiff’s request, to not disclose to any person other than the parties or the Court the venue and the time of the examination on discovery.” placed on file on 14-OCT-2010 Confirmed in writing to the party(ies)...)

* United Kingdom

Imam is Just
On October 14th, 2010 Nazmin (not verified) says:

The court ruling was in favour of the defendants despite the combined legal prowess, efforts, resources and reach of the very top, lawyers and leaders in question. To me that is saying that the Imam has spoken and also wishes the most just, the most expeditious and the most cost effective outcome.

Let us all hope that in the next few days this case will end, And a reversal of the widening gap will begin.

* United Kingdom

Discovery Right of the defendant upheld
On October 14th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

Defendant has every right, in case of a grave doubt about the real identity of the plaintiff to make an application in the court for discovery of the plaintiff – and in all cases, such requests are always granted by the court. This right to the defendant for ‘discovery’ is granted even in laws of third world countries like Pakistan and India.

Even qualified junior lawyer knows this truth. The question then is why, Mr. Gray, one of the senior and most capable lawyers of Canada, acted like this? He knew at heart, for sure, that despite his forceful arguments, court is bound to uphold the just order of the prothonotary, for this is the right of the defendants. What has he got for his client by employing different tactics of delay in all this six moths time? Only heavy cost to both the parties and nothing else; obviously he has earned his fat fee.

Defendants’ position since the beginning was that they have firm doubt about real identity of the plaintiff, and even in their affidavits they mentioned it.

Conclusion: Had this case been really filed by HI, and had Mr. SS had clean heart, Mr. Gray would have agreed to the discovery long time back – may be just after filing of the case.

Suggestion: As suggested earlier by ‘Another Ordinary Murid’, I request Nagib to make full spiritual preparation for the 15th meeting, get blessings of your elders too and also request them to pray for you. You don’t have much time left.

Let us all pray for truth to prevail.

Ameen.
On October 14th, 2010 Murid (not verified) says:

Ameen.

* United Kingdom

Defendants Win - Gray Loses - Order Upheld
On October 13th, 2010 heritage says:

From the Court Docket:

Order dated 13-OCT-2010 rendered by The Honourable Mr. Justice Boivin

Matter considered with personal appearance The Court's decision is with regard to Motion Doc. No. 89 Result: dismissed THIS COURT ORDERS that the plaintiff's motion be dismissed with costs. Costs in the form of a $300.00 lump sum are payable to the defendant (Mr. Tajdin) by the plaintiff. Filed on 13-OCT-2010 certified copies sent to parties via e-mail (certified copies to follow by mail) Transmittal Letters placed on file. entered in J. & O. Book, volume 1102 page(s) 250 - 252 Interlocutory Decision

Read the Full order By Justice Boivin Here:

A. Various Court Filings:

For today's order, choose the link titled: "20101013- Defendants WIN - AppealDismissed - Discovery Order Upheld by Justice Boivin-T-514-10 Order.pdf" as well as

For the order that was upheld, choose the llink titled: "20100924-CaseManagementConference-ORDER-ByProthonotaryTabib.pdf"

A Just Order - fair equitable and reasonable
On October 14th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

The 2 judges have agreed that the "Just", "most expeditious" and "least expensive" option is to have a 15 minute meeting under the process of discovery.

The 2 judges In concluding the order is "just" will have inevitably concluded that there is some merit, reason and uncertainty regarding the forgeries and whether Imam is the plaintiff.

Will Mr Gray file new motions or proceed to summary judgement without Imam having a meeting or attending discovery ?

OR

Will leaders and Mr Gray recommend and begin dialogue with the defendants for conciliation ?

OR

Will Imam attend discovery since Imam is in Canada and the case will end?

OR

Will Imam meet his 2 murids and end the case immediately.

All along all the defendants have been asking for is a 5 minute meeting with their Imam. I hope & pray there is now good reason for conciliation and a meeting Ameen. Imam knows best.

* United Kingdom

@bloglaw
On October 14th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

If Imam was the plaintiff he would have attended the discovery before the motion was filed.
He would have followed court's order.
But he is not the real plaintiff so he is not going to attend I am sure of that
Court will eventually decide that HH is not the plaintiff and this was a case of forgery

* United States

Re: above post of Alibhai Jiwani of Oct. 14 to Bloglaw
On October 14th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
In your last line, what does "eventually" stand for, dear Alibhai? When will they decide that?
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

order upheld
On October 13th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

CONGRATULATION.

Latest on Court docket
On October 13th, 2010 heritage says:

- 2010-10-12 Ottawa Letter from Defendant dated 12-OCT-2010 (Via e-mail)

Re: Costs of the motion heard Oct. 12, 2010: "...I would ask symbolic cost to be paid directly and personally by him (Mr Gray) to the Aga Khan Foundation Canada pursuant to Rule 404 Federal Court Rules,... I am not asking the cost of travel from Nairobi as it would have incurred anyways for me to come for the discovery. Cost:...Total $300.00" (Forwarded to Justice Boivin) received on 12-OCT-2010

- 2010-10-12 Ottawa Letter from Plaintiff dated 12-OCT-2010
Re: Costs of motion heard Oct. 12, 2010 "We are content not to seek costs. The motion was brought on by the Prothonotary's direction and not by a motion made by the Defendants." (Forwarded to Justice Boivin) via E-MAIL received on 12-OCT-2010

- 2010-10-12 Ottawa Ottawa 12-OCT-2010
BEFORE The Honourable Mr. Justice Boivin Language: E Before the Court: Motion Doc. No. 89 on behalf of Plaintiff to set aside the Order of Prothonotary Tabib dated September 24, 2010 as it relates to all matters except the setting down of the parties' motions for summary judgment. Result of Hearing: Matter reserved held in Court Senior Usher: Shawn Young 12-OCT-2010 Duration per day: 12-OCT-2010 from 09:30 to 11:00 Courtroom : Conference Room 1104, 11th Floor - Thomas D'Arcy McGee Bldg. - Ottawa Court Registrar: Christen Clement Total Duration: 1.5h Appearances: Mr. Brian W. Gray 416-216-4000 representing Plaintiff Mr. Najib Tajdin n/a representing himself Court Reporter: Marion Liang 613-564-2727 12-OCT-2010 ASAP Reporting Services 613-564-2727 12-OCT-2010 Transcript requested (on an expedited basis) Comments: An Order will issue on October 13, 2010. Parties are to provide brief written submissions as to their position on costs for this motion. Minutes of Hearing entered in Vol. 831 page(s) 143 - 149 Abstract of Hearing placed on file

Symbolic cost Rule 404
On October 13th, 2010 heritage says:

Federal Court Rule 404

Liability of solicitor for costs

(1) Where costs in a proceeding are incurred improperly or without reasonable cause or are wasted by undue delay or other misconduct or default, the Court may make an order against any solicitor whom it considers to be responsible, whether personally or through a servant or agent,

(a) directing the solicitor personally pay the costs of a party to the proceeding; or

(b) disallowing the costs between the solicitor and the solicitor's client.

(2) No order under subsection (1) shall be made against a solicitor unless the solicitor has been given an opportunity to be heard.

(3) The Court may order that notice of an order against a solicitor made under subsection (1) be given to the solicitor's client in a manner specified by the Court.

What next?
On October 13th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

"Fear not,what is not real never was and never will be .
What is real ,always was and cannot be destroyed.(" Bhagvat Geeta)

"Struggle you are in today is developing the strength you need tomorrow."

I think what Nagib and Alnaz are doing is really going to contribute to the strength of the jamat for future

I believe Gray is going to file for another motion as the first one got effectively dismissed by the judge

* United States

what next?
On October 14th, 2010 ScepticIsmaili (not verified) says:

The world will stop revolving? People live in this country and in this age but expect miracles!!!
What's going to happen is that when SS and MM and ER run out of games to play and realise that Canada is not like a two bit dictatorship where Judges are intimidated, than Mowla will have to rescue them by making an appearance to the Court which will be a pity because the brave Jiwa &Tajdin will be slaughtered on the altar of corporate solidarity .
That's Next.

* United States

Imam has spoken ?
On October 14th, 2010 Badru (not verified) says:

Tajdin and Jiwa speak for the silent majority, and there will be change for the better. Everyone you speak to privately agrees with Mawla that leaders in question do not share Imam's guidance with the Jamat. This means also that Leaders do not follow Imam's guidance by not sharing it. Which therefore means they are not following Imam's guidance.

Imam warned the leaders openly to share his guidance with the Jamat. They have obviously not. Maybe Imam has now spoken through Jiwa and Tajdin.

Jiwa and Tajdin have highlighted the tip of the iceberg and exposed the iceberg.They are doing the a special and an unprecedented seva for the Imam and the Jamat at great personal sacrifices and socio econo perils.

Bloglaw hit the nail on the head when he said that thr root cause is the widening gap between the guidance and wishes of the Imam and what they do on the ground.

Everyone is praying that there will now be change for the better.

* United Kingdom

@BADRU
On October 14th, 2010 NICK (not verified) says:

VERY WELL SAID; "Everyone is praying that there will now be change for the better." INSHA'ALLAH HOPEFULLY THINGS WILL CHANGE IN JAMAT AROUND THE GLOBE AND SO WILL BE THE ATTITUDE OF JAMATI LEADERS TOWARDS THE JAMAT.
MAY HAZAR IMAM SHOWERS HIS IMMENSE LOVE AND BLESSING ON ALL OF US , SO THAT WE ALL CAN LIVE IN PEACE AND HARMONY FROM NOW ON. AMEEN...

* Canada

I think we will find out soon..
On October 14th, 2010 chai (not verified) says:

"If the judge rules the examination for discovery should proceed, the Aga Khan will comply with the order, Gray said"

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/Lawsuit+over+book+require+Khan+appeara...

* Canada

He said that because he was
On October 14th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

He said that because he was expecting that the Judge will rule in his favor and people will think he is representing the Aga Khan else he would not make this kind of statement with so much energy. He wanted to show that he is the Aga Khan's lawyer. But.. surprise! the judgment is not in his favor. If the Aga Khan was his client there would not be a problem, Friday the lawsuit would be resolved in his client's liking.

Now he is trapped in his own bluff, he has to find some excuses to get out of his comments to Ottawa Citizen and try to explain why he is changing his mind and does not want anymore to proceed with discovery. The defendant have made their point, if Gray does not bring the Aga Khan after what he said to the newspaper, every intelligent person on earth will understand that there is a problem with the identity of the real plaintiff.

You are right. The thought
On October 14th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

You are right. The thought also crossed my mind. Mr Gray and the leaders in question must have been certain the judge will rule in their favour.

Also no other papers are carrying this story and the wrting and the angle suggests this is what they wanted before the judge gave the ruling. Maybe they also thought this article may help them in getting the ruling in their favour.

Imam knows best

* United Kingdom

Hazar Imam is not obliged to come for discovery.
On October 13th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

My thought is that Mr Gray will come up with another motion to thwart the meeting.
Hazar Imam is not obliged to come for discovery if he is not the real plaintiff.
We have to see if the case can go further from here if discovery is not possible?
Only Mawla knows his own game plan.
There must be a greater realm to this event than what I can speculate.
"Ali anant , Anant ,Ya ali Anant tu hi jane"
O Ali you are the eternal , only you know the end.

"Tara bandane tu hi tare to nam rahe Ilahi"
You have to save your believer only then you will be keeping your name of divine saviour"
This I feel somehow is the struggle of truth verses untruth rather than copyright.

* United States

Thanks
On October 13th, 2010 murid (not verified) says:

Thank you for sharing this information . we hope the transcript Alnaz expected to provide on 9th and the one of today and the order will be uploaded as soon as possible.

* United Kingdom

A lack or clash of understanding !
On October 11th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Editor of Vancouveritte made the following most surprising & very concerning statements (in Capitals).

ALIBHAI HAS TOLD YOU (IN HIS AFFIDAVIT) THAT HE SIMPLY PUT A BOOK ON A PLATE AND THERE WAS NO CONVERSATION”

I have read again paragraph 9 to 13 of Mr Alibhay’s affidavit, the Farman book was on top, Imam saw the book. Imam put his hand on and blessed the Book, Imam spent longer than usual on this mehmani, there was a conversation, and it was not only Mr Alibhay but also his wife and child too. In such a Mehmani murids request(araj – mun murad ) any specific, guidance/s or blessing/s

THE SOLE PURPOSE OF MEHMANI IS FOR A FOLLOWER TO GET A FACE-TO-FACE AUDIENCE WITH HH (IMAM)

The sole purpose of a mehmani is NOT to get a face to face audience with the Imam (far from it)

THE OFFERINGS (IN A MEHMANI) ARE SYMBOLIC. YOU GET BLESSED AND YOUR FAMILY GETS BLESSED.

This offering is not symbolic at all. The offering contains usually fruits, nuts, other items including in some cases jewelery with any specific request for guidance or blessing. This is in addition to any specific advice and guidance requested by murids or given by the Imam. After the mehmani is blessed, the contents including the blessings are revered and shared with family, friends and other murids.

NO CEO WOULD LOOK INTO YOUR EYES AND GIVE YOU APPROVAL WITHOUT FIRST STUDYING YOUR PROPOSAL.

Imam or a mehmani cannot begin to be compared to a CEO, even in terms of the time Imam takes or the way he considers, assesses, approves or decides on any secular or spiritual matters.

YOU CAN HARDLY CLAIM THAT A FLEETING, MOMENTARY AUDIENCE WHEN HE (IMAM) PUTS HIS HAND ON YOUR PLATE AND PATS YOURS SHOULDERS IS FULL AND COMPLETE ASSESSMENT OF A MAJOR PROJECT.

With respect your interpretation & understanding of a mehmani is totally incorrect and frankly an insult to our Tariquah. This mehmani and mehmani’s are not a fleeting momentary audience with the Imam who puts his hands on a plate, and gives a pat on the shoulder. This mehmani according to Mr Gray lasted one minute. It takes 10 seconds to bless by the Imam placing his hand on the book and on the shoulders of Muruds and saying Khanavadan. So what happened in the remaining 50 seconds ?
I am sorry to say that you are showing no respect for mehmani which is one of the most significant and foundational part of our Tariquah and is revered and observed daily in JK’s and also on the occasion of Darbar.

HH (IMAM) PAYS A LOT OF ATTENTION TO DETAIL.

I agree that Imam in all matters pays a lot of attention to detail. Sadly despite the best of the very best and detailed advice, guidance and directions from the Imam, there is a wide gap between the Imam’s attention to detail and what the leaders are implementing on the ground. This attention to detail is also neither reflected in the lawsuit nor the time line and events leading to up to the filing of the lawsuit.

MR GRAY DID NOT CROSS EXAMINE MR ALIBHAY BECAUSE HIS AFFIDAVIT FAVOURS THE PLAINTIFF?

I do not see how you can conclude the affidavit or Mr Alibhay favours the plaintiff in regard to the mehmani in paragraph 9 to 13. Mr Alibhay is a Mukhi and I have no reason to doubt what he has said in true. Mr Gray has so far refused to produce the video of that mehmani as requested by Nagib.

NOW, SO LET’S USE OUR BRAINS AND REMEMBER THAT HH (IMAM) OR HIS STAFF OR FAMILY ARE LIKELY READING THIS AS WELL.

I agree 100% with you on this. Let us all please do so.

Finally, If anyone reading these comments are still uncertain or confused regarding mehmani (or anything else) , I would invite them to feel free to call their Local ITREB and seek clarification and guidance from an ITREB scholar or an Al Waez/een. I hope ITREB IIS< and leaders who are reading these will try and ensure appropriate interventions and include them in the current leadership orientation programmes (LOP's and BUI, for all current and new appointees.

* United Kingdom

EDITOR OF VANCOUVERITTE
On October 12th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

EDITOR OF VANCOUVERITTE REPLIES TO BLOGLAW

OK, apart from your personal religious interpretations and your claim that I’m insulting your sensibilities which I have no problem doing, let’s take the facts that have legal ramifications and look at them closely.
The relevance of the brief audience as far as the legal issue is concerned is whether there was any conversation about a book that was placed on a plate with fruits. (And I hope you did not get permission to go jump over a fence and plant fruit trees in a neighbours garden, or any other concealed illegal activity simply because HH put his hand on the fruit and nuts in good faith).

Alibhai’s affidavit helps HH because it is completely consistent with HH’s affidavit. There was no conversation about a book, a book was not mentioned, there was no mention of a project to publish a copyrighted item. HH said he had sight of the book but it was taken away by the agents (Alibhai and wife) of the defendants. Again, this is consistent with what Alibhai has admitted – that he has the book at home as a remembrance. Therefore, HH had no access to the contents, no way to review it, no way to edit it and no way to determine its content. HH said he gave no such permission to print, publish or distribute. This too is consistent with the total lack of discussion of a book as evidenced by Alibhai’s affidavit.

Your suggestion that a video of the session and Mr. Gray’s “refusal” to submit it is evidence of concealment. You are insulting Mr. Gray, HH himself and the intelligence of those brighter than yourself.

Your suggestion is that if the video was played – the critical 50 seconds would reveal something contrary to what HH said. Your allegation has been denied, refuted, debunked and not worthy of a long debate.

BLOGLAW RESPONDS

1 My interpretation is not my personal belief but that of almost all Ismailies. This is also a part of the guidance and authority of the Imam covering ALL temporal and spiritual matters as confirmed by the Imam in our constitution. This is what we have accepted in our bayat, and we were taught to accept in our formative years by our parents, in JK’s in BUI and throughout our lives.

2 You are not insulting my personal sensibilities or beliefs. Thankfully (Sukhr) I do not have a conflict between my faith belief and intellect. You have views which are different. I do not agree with them in this case.

3 The legal relevance particularly but not limited to the mehmani & consent. Imam had sight of the book and blessed it. Imam allowed it to be taken away. Imam did not retain it or passed it to the top leadership with a direction. Leaders were there and saw this. The murids state Imam asked them to continue the good work which they understood was the book of farmans. Maybe they misunderstood. But then none of the leaders or the Imam contacted Nagib to stop publications of farman books for 20 years. Leaders and scholars were fully aware for 20 years and most Al Waez use these farman books. Nagib continued this work and in fact had meetings at IIS for other projects. Murids (Nagib, Alnaz, and Alibhay) have given their definition, interpretation and or understanding of that mehmani. Almost all - 99.9% of Ismailies would define a mehmani in similar terms. The top Leaders in question accept that in a mehmani murids do and can seek guidance and advice. The lawsuit states that there was no conversation and consent was not given. Therefore legally what is needed is an expert to define precisely mehmani (Maybe an IIS - ITREB top Scholar or an AL Waez).

This will help the court to decide if legally there was an agreement & consent. The court will of course take into account all the other and related evidence and facts including the claim that Imam is not the plaintiff. Legally a verbal agreement in whatever setting is an agreement or not.

4 Mr Alibhay and wife did not “take the book away” suggesting they decided to take it away. This was not the case. The mehmani was offered to the Imam. Imam blessed it and then effectively gave it to them with his blessings. When Mehmani is presented, one of three things happen 1- Imam disregards the mehmani and gives blessings to the Murid 2- The Imam keeps it and blesses the Murid, or 3-Imam blesses it and the Murids (as in this case) and returns the mehmani including the book on top.

5 I did not say not submitting the Video is concealment. This is a legal choice and strategy by Mr Gray and those whose intelligence is better than mine. Regarding what the 50 seconds will show is known to the Leaders, Mr Gray and the Imam. The rest of us can only speculate as we are. Speculation and uncertainly more often than not leads to a clash of misunderstanding, and confusion

Maybe this is another reason why this case should have been first considered by our national or international conciliation and arbitration Boards and or IIS or in accordance with our traditions

* United Kingdom

Debating with na Imani people
On October 12th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Why even bother debating with those people who have no faith in the Imam as one who is the bearer of Noor. The likes of Sachedina, Salim, and others believe and believe firmly that the Imam is just like you and me and Prince Charles or Obama.

These people say Imam thinks in French speaks in English, makes mistakes and needs correcting and also he seeks counsel of others. They can never comprehend nor understand the 50 seconds a MOMIN spends with his Lord.

Being in the constant presence of the Imam is no guarantee of being blessed. Eg. Abu Bakr was very close with the Prophet, have immense service personally to the Prophet and Islam but was first to discard the Haqiqati deen, remained a Muslim but lost being a Beloved Murid of the Noor of the Time.

You cannot tell a blind how wonderful the rising of the sun is or the setting of the sun, as his world (materially) require him to to feel things with his touch, or smell, or sound, none of which would help him.

Ignore the likes of them, their opinions are just as worthless as the likes of Yezid and his likes.

* Canada

Imam does not give up - @Concerned
On October 12th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Imam does not ignore or give up on us or our brothers and sisters. NOR should we and NOR would Imam wish us to ignore or give up on any of them. I am sorry I therefore do not agree with you or that that Dr SS or any of the leaders have no faith in MHI.I am sure we have all got at least one skeliton in our cupboards. I admit I have too and for which I seek forgiveness.

We have brothers and sisters in more than 25 countries around the world with rich diversity of cultures, practices and traditions. In different parts of the world, there are different challenges and lifestyle in dealing with the imbalances between Din and Dunya. Imam has given guidance on this in many of the farmans in the last 5 years.

Iman has also given guidance to the leaders in the last 10 years of the challenges and solutions of the knowledge society. Imam has given us Ismaili centers as a part of the solutions of having a home away from home. More Ismaili centers have been planned. This as we move into the creative soceity will act as a beehive of our communities interactions combining the temporal, social and spritual. Implimentation by the leadership has been a challenge in addressing the root causes.

We must all in fact say a big THANK YOU to the leaders in question and the 2 murids in highlighting the root causes of the widening gap between the solutions &guidance from the Imam, and of the ground realities.

* United Kingdom

Ignore farmans at your own peril
On October 12th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Your comments are just plain and simple YOUR opinions only, and are contradictory to the Imam's own
Farmans. What can I say. I like debates but would prefer that people give their opinions which are grounded on ginans and or on imam's farmans, I don't care for those who can write or say in glowing terms of their own.

It seems that either you do not read and study Ginans or farmans, or your capacity to understand them are seriously compromised.

Please if you must give opinions, don't become too smart and contradict the imam's farmans, or else you and SS and Yezid have much too much in common.

* Canada

Re: Bloglaw's above post of Oct. 11
On October 11th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Dear Bloglaw,
Thank you for sharing the above with us. I hope you did respond to that editor's comments placed on his site by correcting his errors, so that those who visit his site have the correct explanations. Or do they not post such corrections?
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Responsilbe Media Censorship V Moderation
On October 12th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

YAM. I did but there are a number of posts the Editor does not post like also for example my response on his lead article on Ms Parkes and her role. That is his choice of course. Most important is that he those he is closely involved with him know, and of course many if not all who visit that site also visit this site.

* United Kingdom

Re: Bloglaw's above post of Oct. 12
On October 13th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Mowla Aly madad, Bloglaw. Thank you for answering my question and for clarifying things for me. I now understand why you also post your reply to that Editor's comments on this site. Useful for his visitors...
Man, is his (Editor's) language ever rude!
Keep up you effort in sharing views and information, Bloglaw. It does demand perseverance...
Again, thank you.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

What happened at Mehmani?
On October 11th, 2010 Beleiver (not verified) says:

Have you noticed that all statements about the Mehmani from the plaintiff's pleadings are speculations on what the Imam may or may not have considered/thought/accepted/said? If they actually represented the Imam, they would present actual evidence about what happened, and they would not be afraid of submitting the video.

Here's a repeat from my post of June 11:

When Mehmani is presented with an extra gift offering, we often see one of three things happen:

- The Imam disregards the gift offering, in which case any acceptance is debatable

- The Imam picks up the gift offering, keeps it, and gives blessings in which case the gift is accepted

- The Imam Blesses the gift offering explicitely and leaves it on the tray in which case the gift is accepted and returned to the family who then treats it preciously and shares this blessed gift with as many friends, family and fellow ismailis as possible.

Imam is meticulous and would not ...
On October 11th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

You are right. and the Imam would not say that the book was secretly introduced in a one minute religious event. which he did not bless. Imam is meticulous and would not admit to the mehmani and then make a contradictory statement at the same time. The top leaders have obviously seen the video. There is also an affidavit from a Chandrat Mukhi Saheb Mr Alibhay. Yet Mr Gray and the leaders in question are stating that the Imam did not bless the book which was secretly introduced, Why not tell the truth or produce the video.?

* United Kingdom

Mehmani, the significance
On October 12th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

To understand Mehmani evidence one must also look at Imam's guidance, farmans and other expressions. For example Alnaz says that the old constitution gave right of publishing farmans to Association as it was known then. After it was disolved no such power was give to ITREB or ANY other body. There is no Farman or any other guidance at all (other than the three forged documents sent by SS) that prohibits the publication and distribution of farmans.

Alnaz pointed to Nairobi 1981 Farman and a few others and argues that by MHI saying to Jamats to take my blessings to your families and Jamats during Deedar, MHI's farmans being blessings, are also to be 'distributed,, orally, or otherwise.

MHI had made a Farman on not taking photos during Deedar but never said not to record. The Nairobi Farman quoted by Alnaz actually implies we having farmans inaudio version also.

Also the Farman of Dubai of Dec 13, 2003, quoted by Alnaz is so vital where MHI actually says that Farmans of IMAMS (plural) are also purposely hidden and should be reconstituted which is precisely what Nagob is doing.

If the issues are considered from ALL angles, the position of Alnaz and Nagib can be understood, and also explains why MHI is silent as he has spoken loudly and over many generations of what is acceptable and what is not.

For the likes of SS, Salim, Yezid, etc, to understand these issues they have to pray for faith and Haqiqati samaj without which it is like a them playing a drum whose skin is broken, playing a broken drum.

* Canada

@alnaz
On October 13th, 2010 Dilawar H Momin (not verified) says:

Alnaz is quoting Alnaz as third person! What a manipulation!! Manipulating whole community!!!

* United States

Significance of Mehmani - Sachedina and Bhaloo's views
On October 11th, 2010 heritage says:

Please see:

Significance of Mehmani

Dr Sachedina admits that a Murid is quite entitled to speak to his Imam during Mehmani. Imam does listen, interact with and guide Murids during Mehmanis. Although reluctant, even Mr Bhaloo came around to this conclusion.

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

Why both Defendants on separate course
On October 10th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

It is interesting to note the defendants have changed their course. I spoke to a friend of mine who works in the courts to seek some insight. She told me that Alnaz not joining Naguib in fighting Gray does not seem to be the time factor that if he is there then time for Nagib would be reduced. Alnaz can be present but questions could be asked by Naguib while Alnaz just observes.

So there must be another reason for that. She thinks that the reason is that Naguib is not a lawyer and wants to stop the proceeding even if it means that Gray can withdraw the case and not produce the Imam for questioning, specially because a motion for summary judgement is very very important and yet MHI's evidence was not filed to avoid him being questioned as SS and AB were questioned.

On the other hand Alnaz is a lawyer and probably understands that if the summary judgement motions were argued he might not only win the case but the judge could also determine if MHI was the plaintiff as the experts have been cross examined and a judge could say that the letters and affirmation were not signed by the Imam.

I also think that seems to be the reason for Alnaz wanting to argue the motions. Now that I think of this, i remember that earlier dates for motion were refused by Naguib and it seemed to me then too that he might be wanting to delay the motions and so he might just want the case to be withdrawn.

My friend also told me that it is quite normal for litigants not showing up for discoveries, and it does not automatically dismiss the case for not appearing for discoveries.

We might not know for certain what MHI's role was in the litigation, regrettably, it seems.

However, if MHI appears them would it not seem like he is the real plaintiff and that case is his and not brought by others as argued by the defendants, scary thought.

* Canada

Will Summary Judgement Happen?
On October 11th, 2010 Beleiver (not verified) says:

You say:
"My friend also told me that it is quite normal for litigants not showing up for discoveries, and it does not automatically dismiss the case for not appearing for discoveries."

In any case, since Imam is not the real Plaintiff, and the lawyers have no access to Him, the discovery will probably not happen even if the order is upheld.

And if there is no discovery, then the summary judgement motion will happen and will be strengthened by this!

At this point, it seems to me that Nagib responding alone to this appeal is the best of both worlds, and it also shows a very exemplary humility on the part of Alnaz: Why would 2 defendants ask for discoveries when only one can get the Imam's guidance to end the case?

No respect for Tariquah
On October 8th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I just read Mr Grays’s representations for the appeal to set aside the order to effectively stop Hazar Imam to meet his 2 murids for 15 minutes and give directions and guidance to them. This is the most expeditious and cost effective way to end this case.

So why appeal? The reason seems to me is just to satisfy ego’s of those involved at great expense, time and delay which are all avoidable

Mr Gray says confirmation by MHI is not needed at this stage because Mr Gray has confirmed who the plaintiff is and so has Dr Sachedina and this is also stated in the affirmation. Therefore he adds that Imam can appear at a later date if needed. Mr Gray accepts that if the Imam meets his 2 murids now the case will end immediately.

Mr Gray and the leaders in question say that the plaintiff needs an opportunity to see & consider documents from the defendants before he can be requested to attend. Why wait when in a 15 minute meeting the case can end and the question of settlement and merit are not relevant because copyright is not disputed.

The Mehmani in 1992 did take place and lasted for one minute. Mr Gray says that the 2 murids are relying on a “secretly” introduced book in 1992 which is “supposedly” blessed and approved by the Imam in a one minute religious event. Mr Gray will have seen that video or was told it was one minute by our leaders. One minute in a long time for the Imam during a mehmani which is usually 15 seconds. Mr Gray does not fully understand what a mehmani is and what it means to the Imam and for the murid. The wording & language used is unfortunate and disappointing..

However the leaders who allowed that clause in the representations are in fact insulting the Ismaili Tariquah. Those leaders are Dr Sachedina, Mr Manji and maybe others. Imam would never do so. They are showing a complete and utter disregard (and disrespect) for Mehamani – one of the most significant and foundational part of our Tariquah which is observed daily in JK’s and on the occasion of Darbar (as in this case).

* United Kingdom

@bloglaw
On October 9th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Since you feel so strongly about the leaders as I understand from what you have written above how in the world can you think of the "dialogue" with those very same leaders ? I am surprised you are discussing emphatically about this @ Vancouverite.
I think the case is already at a point of summary judgement.
Should the defendants get it resulting in the dismissal of the case on grounds of forgery or the plaintiff ?
There is no other question at this point. If the case goes further than all the issues will be discussed in the court until then the Q does not arise.
I do not see the slimmest possibility of a dialogue here. You got to be dreaming if you are thinking that way.
My best bet is that case will be dismissed in favor of defendants
Then all that guidance given to LIF leaders on the 4th sept will come out into play .
Until then everyone is sitting tight.
I may be wrong but I think dismissal is imminent.

* United States

Is Dr S removing or moving people ?
On October 10th, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

information not verified that Dr S is moving and removing selected individuals under him @HQ. If so what are the reasons and whether this has anything to do with the lawsuit.

* United Arab Emirates

I read Bloglaw's comments
On October 10th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

I read Bloglaw's comments and basis to start a dialogue. He is suggesting a dialogue with not just with Mr Gray and the 2 leaders in question, Dr S and Mr Manji. Credit to Bloglaw in trying. None of the leaders can say they were not aware. Most will be sitting tight and waiting until the outcome of court proceedings. Everyone is innocent and have the right to have their day in court.Those leaders and staff who know the facts should and I am sure will have given information internally.

I hope the latest documents filed and the transcript Alnaz said will be uploaded soon with a summary which are most helpful for everyone

* United Arab Emirates

@ Alibhai Jiwani
On October 9th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

I exactly feel the same way, no need to talk at this stage. Summary Judgement will soon follow.

No respect for Tariquah @ Bloglaw
On October 8th, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

We can all agree with Bloglaw on this. It seems that the corporate culture in Aiglemont has made some Ismaili leaders loose sight of the driving force behind our community, the essence of our faith, which is the unique interaction of the personage of the Imam with the historic faith of the followers.

The Ismaili Imam is unlike a regular Muslim imam in that He operates in both realms of existence. In the batuni or spiritual realm, He embodies the Noor “light” of Allah, which gives Him the power to guide the path of his Murids in their search for answers to the metaphysical matters, such as Heaven and the Day of Judgement etc. During the early conversions from Hinduism, this divine Light was seen to be in the Imam's incarnation of Vishnu. Mowla is all-knowing and his authority is absolute. He is most visible in early morning bandagi, or prayers of the momin.

But the Imam also has a role on a zaheri or physical level. Here he is accepted as the amir-ul-momin or the Commander of the Faithful. In this position, He derives secular authority and power in the temporal world from many factors. Sometimes it is the Shah of Iran who grants him land and titles or sometimes the Queen of England gives him recognition. Sometimes, it is the power of his philanthropy or the timeliness of his ideas on peace, tolerance etc that make world leaders invite and honour him. In this realm, the Imam needs and depends on the services of other people. If the Imam has a temporal state to run, such as the Fatimid Caliphate, then he has a whole civil service to assist him. If not, he has a small retinue as in Aiglemont today.

For most Khoja Ismailis, these two roles i.e batuni and zaheri are fused. The Hazar Imam of Aiglemont is also the old Vishnu of the Geeta. SSMS embodied that spirit in his dealings with the Jamaat and it seemed, until this latest fiasco, those who administered the jamaat’s physical needs such its material wellbeing etc, also understood this powerful factor.

This law-suit and the way it is conducted to date make an absolute mockery of this Ismaili doctrine. The faithful, which makes up most readers of this website, believe univocally that Mowla knows everything and is fully aware of all the details of the lawsuit, whether SS says he did not talk to Him before making his affidavit(as he claims) or not. Further, the Imam, who has the power over the universe, can stop this lawsuit in a scintilla (a portion of a moment) but obviously chooses not to. Even on a zaheri level, He just has to mention the case in a speech or farman (or anywhere) and Tajdin and Jiwa are morally and legally bound to accept their terrible fate-a life of complete poverty and ostracisms from their Ismaili family. But Mowla chooses not do that. He has not lifted a finger to make the lawsuit disappear. That is a powerful signal to the faithful.

To the lawyer, it may just be a matter of the pride or dignity of the VIP; to others, it may be fear of humiliation of being brought “down” by two unimportant people. But to true Ismailis, it is a matter of a deeper truth. The Imam has a plan. No one knows what it is but just as day follows night, the lawsuit is leading to a definite objective, one that has vast significance for the faith of the Ismailis.

Perhaps the current crop of Ismaili leaders may have to be purged in order for the real Ismailis to emerge. As the Pirs have said, Mowla needs only a few Momims for this world to exist

* Canada

Re: above post of Abdul of Oct. 8
On October 10th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Excellent, well articulated summary of the most important part of the faith!
Re: your last paragraph : I just hope that IF ever the real Ismailis do emerge to be leaders, that they will not allow their position of power to corrupt them...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Need for leaders to act. Will they?
On October 9th, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

Leaders who are reading these feedbacks and opinions will hopefully do what they should to reduces the gap as you and bloglaw have said to reduce the gap between guidance and the directives of the Imam and what leaders do on the ground. Both you and bloglaw speak for a majority of Ismailiis who are all concerned and do say the same privately. Visions & guidance, need tasks which need leaders who lead leaders down the line to complete them for the vision and directives to become a reality. Without intergrity and trust this will fail and instead of leading will lead to misleading. We are today in the knowledge society where the traditional leadership model of "gating off " will no longer work as Imam has reminded us many times in the last decade or two. The 64 million dollar question is will all leaders take this lead.

* United Arab Emirates

Are the leaders allowed to read on this website?
On October 9th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Most of the people I talk to in jk say they do not go on this website because they say it is "Nafarmani"
They believe what is told to them by LIF and LIF in turn what is told to them by Dr SS.
(99.9 percent of jamat know nothing about the case except that there is a lawsuit going on)
It is a pity when HI himself is talking so much about importance of acquiring knowledge and concept of" knowledge society" that community still chose to remain ignorant on issues so vital for the faith and our doctrines.

* United States

Leaders reading!!
On October 10th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

A question was posed whether leaders are allowed to read the posts here.

I think that us not an appropriate question.

I would say (knowing and interacting with leaders for now 60 years (not much has changed) that most if not all of leaders don't really care about what jamats think all they are concerned about is how and which higher A.. to kiss to be in their good books and be appointed again and again.

Knowing jamats opinions is contrary to the objective of a leader - please the likes of SS.

I see this in action no matter who the leader is, how big a tasbi he holds, mainly holds a bigger one so as to portray a god fearing image.

In many ways our leaders could outbeat the politicians in these matters.

My own opinion, which I would love if this site person who posts surveys posted a question to determine the viewers opinions on this point.

I think their answers could be predicted. I doubt that appointments are based on merit.

What do you think?

* Canada

@ Abdul
On October 8th, 2010 Alibhai jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Where were you man all this time?Hiding?
Finally I found someone who is thinking on the same line as I do.
I love you my brother for that.
Keep writing.
We need someone intelligent and articulate like you to come forward and explain the Ismaili doctrines
It is a big service to Mawla I think.
I love your comments .

* United States

Motion by Mr. Gray
On October 8th, 2010 An ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

My friend asks one three questions:
1. Why Nagib opposed Mr. Gray’s motion of setting aside the prothonotary’s order of the meeting of maximum 15 minutes between the parties on October 15th.
2. Why Al Naz, on the other hand, does not objected to this motion of Mr. Gray and,
3. What Mr. Gray’s urgency was to hear his motion on 12th October.

My response:
Al naz was neither involved in Mehmani (directly or indirectly), nor in printing and distribution of earlier Farman books or the book pertaining to the case. His stand was from the beginning that he was unnecessarily involved in the case, which gets also confirmed from equivocal statements of Dress during his cross examination.
He den not need to raise a single question to HI. Also, if Al Naz agreed for such a meeting, he would consume some time unnecessarily, which would result in less available time for Nagib out of total restricted time to 15 minutes.
In a teleconference, it was Nagib who wanted and insisted for such a meeting with HI on 15th October as a part of discovery to end the suit. Prothonotary’s was convinced that the meeting will end the suit immediately and with least cost to both the parties, and hence passed such an order.
HI will be in Toronto between 13 to 15th October and since the prothonotary’s order is there, it must be rescinded by the judge by 12th October if the order for the meeting with HI of defendants is to be thwarted, which was the main aim of Mr. Gray, and for this reason only, he cited urgency in his motion.
Though move by Nagib and Al Naz was a good move, motion of Mr. Gray on legal ground will most likely be granted by the judge on 12th only. It means the case will go on even in next year.

Legal grounds
On October 10th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Don't bet on Gray winning the appeal. A prothonotary's order made on procedural issues is not reversed easily by a appeal judge.

I doubt that Gray will succeed, but the discovery date could bs changed as courts do take into account the convenience of a litigant and not impose a date that might not be suitable to a litigant except that Gray has not given evidence of MHI's busy schedule.

Also Gray could appeal that order and also refuse to produce MHI despite the order, which will be a PR nightmare for his team.

It could mean that the case could be withdrawn by Gray and SS and MM, which will not solve the issues, and we will never know if MHI was behind the litigation or not.

* Canada

Gray can not win on legal
On October 8th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Gray can not win on legal ground. There are enough rules and precedents that the Judge can not really give him reason. But what Gray will do is another appeal and another motion up to the time someone tells him that he has to pay from his pocket to make multiple frivolous motions and appeals.

The Sachedina Factor
On October 7th, 2010 Abdul (not verified) says:

Whilst most who have met Shafik Sachedina would agree that loyalty, not intelligence must have been his chief asset to Mowla, yet still, when creating his position, the Imam must have been expecting competent assistance in the running the vast network of community services. Along with such extra-constitutional powers also comes the duty to exercise due caution and when called upon, to provide Him with proper information and sober counsel. Which means that in each situation, to fearlessly state available choices as well as potential pitfalls. So accepting for the moment, the dubious claim that Mowla is really the Plaintiff here, one can say that Shafik Sachedina, Mowla's trusted advisor, has failed Him miserably.

To begin with, it was bad crisis management not to afford these loyal Murids a few minutes with Mowla, if it could dispel their fears about the source of the order to cease publication (after all, it is a common complaint amongst Ismailis that leaders use Mowla’s name to further their own agendas). In his x-examination, Tajdin effectively demolished the argument against undue access to the Imam. This was an unsual circumstance and his book, a labour of love of the Momim over many years, deserved the briefest attention of the Murshid. It is incredible that instead, attempts were made to intimidate and threaten his family ruination. The Dr. knew Tajdin as a devout man of principle, who could not be bullied and who needed special handling. (President Bush’s experiences have taught the world that threats don’t work against firm religious beliefs)

At this point, all well informed Ismaili leaders and individuals agree in private that it was bad counsel for the Agakhan lawsuit to be filed against His own followers in a public court. Every step in the process exposes the entire Ismaili worldwide jamaat to physical danger, opens the Imamate and its institutions to ridicule from the uninformed and may only provide symbolic victory as it would not cover Tajdin's past works and any future breach would have to be pursued in the courts everytime anyway (there are millions of Ismailis globally and some would likely ignore the prohibition against sharing farmans just as they ignore some other farmans).

So balancing the evil of the distribution of the Imam's farmans versus the benefits/dangers outlined above why did Shafik, the chief “coordinator” of the Ismaili world, not exercise caution before rushing into a minefield? As one comentator has asked, why did he not ask Mowla to forgive these Murid’s “craziness” and beg for a short audience for him? After all, Mowla encourages meritocracy, which requires one to do what has to be done, which has to include giving one’s best opinion to the Imam. Then it is Mowla’s prerogative, based on His vision, to follow that counsel or not but the transcripts show that no effective attempt was made to dispel Mr Tajdin’s concerns. Instead, his staunch faith in Mowla’s divine wisdom became the subject of ridicule at every level at Aiglemont.

Secondly, it was bad counsel to hire this lawyer, who it transpires, has not bothered to acquaint himself with the basic tenets of the religious community he represents nor the theological dispute underlying the simple claim for copyright. Mr. Tajdin rightly told him that his (Tajdin’s) conduct to date would look irrational if it is not understood from the position of Ismaili Tarika. It this faith in his Imam that makes Tajdin labour for years to produce a Book of Farmans for his fellow Ismailis (selflessly, without identifying himself), instead of a book of songs of the Beatles. It is his faith that makes him think that it cannot be his beloved Mowla that would refuse to see him or to sue him. It is the same faith that makes him face up to the deprivations of the Ismaili “Taleban” who harass and threaten his family every day. This lawyer was clueless and tried to portray Tajdin as a “lunatic” by trying to show that his views were factually unsupportable (as if faith in the Imam has anything to with facts!!). It may appear so to a non-Ismaili and indeed, ultimately, even to a Federal Court Judge but this faith is a product of 500 years of the Sat Panth. It was a crying shame that Shafik Sachedina, the principle defender of the Ismaili faith, should have sat there and allowed the lawyer to mock this Ismaili Momin. (and what was that dumb stunt about the lawyer’s photo with the Imam at the Foundation ceremony? It was comical when Tajdin reminded him about the thousand photos the Imam takes with people he does not speak with!!). In fact, the eagerness with which the lawyer was trying to show that his connection with the Imam perhaps underscores the argument earlier made in this forum that, initially he may have taken instructions from SS rather than the Imam directly, which could be a breach of his ethics.

Be as it may, it is clear that the good Dr.(where on earth did he get that doctorate….Turkmenistan?) has brought disrepute to the Imam and is singulalrly unsuitable for the role he occupies in a community that is bursting with talent and the real question on many minds is…when will Mowla boot the ** out?

* Seychelles

@Abdul
On October 8th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Bravo!
Finally the intelligent ones are coming out with their thoughts.
I loved your comment

* United States

@ Abdul
On October 8th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Simply superb, excellent analysis indeed.

Sachedina Factor
On October 8th, 2010 parvez (not verified) says:

Shafik Sachedina is a dentist and thus entitled to call himself a Dr. He qualified at what was then the leading dental school in UK in the early 70s. What is not clear to me is why you believe that Hazar Imam could not have told (nay Ordered) Sachedina to arrange a meeting if he so wished. Maybe Sachedina is not obeying orders and Mowla is too busy to realise he has not had his meeting?

* United Kingdom

Maybe Mowla does not want to
On October 8th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Maybe Mowla does not want to intervene because there is criminal activities involved in this case and he wants the legal system to clean up the mess. Why judge the reason he has to let this happen... unless you have the capacity to understand what is really happening...

Sachedina may or may not have a dentist degree but it does not give him the right to pull everyone's teeths.

Maybe Mowla does not want to
On October 8th, 2010 simon (not verified) says:

just wait for the lighting bolt to strike on you two(naguib/Alnaz)

coming shortly

* Canada

@librarian Umed
On October 8th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I have the same feeling.
HI is not going to raise a finger in this matter in the physical realm
Eventually Federal court will decide this is a Fake case.
There is no need for Mawla to get involved and expose himself to press Qs etc.
He is giving the necessary strength to his momins to fight the case.
Look how resilient both are despite so much harassment!

* United States

What if Nagib who is not a
On October 8th, 2010 Praying in India (not verified) says:

What if Nagib who is not a lawyer looses the appeal by Gray?

Does it mean it goes for another round of summary judgments that will be appealed also by either of them?

Does the appeal prove that the Aga Khan is the plaintiff?

Why then fight??
On October 8th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

If you say that Mawla has a reason to keep silent, why then is Nagib fighting like hell to discover our beloved Imam, rather then let the courts 'clean' the mess as you said? Why does then Nagib want to force Mawla to speak if you say (Nagib's staunchest supporter) he has a reason to keep quiet?

* Canada

The Court will clean the
On October 8th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The Court will clean the mess I am sure, I can see what Nagib may have in his head. There can be a multitude of reasons, the first being that he knows Gray does not represent the Imam and has no possibility of bringing the Imam to the discoveries, so by pushing for discoveries and letting Gray appeal multiple times, he has already proved that Gray is not in touch with his purported client.

During the motion for dismissal, this will count because this will be one of the many proves that an usurper is the real client. There have already been so many rumours about who are the usurpers that it is surprising that the Imam has not tried to protect them if he was the litigant by even accepting a small discovery that he would know is the right of any accused in the Canadian system.

Would the Imam launch the lawsuit without knowing the implication that if there are 50 John Doe and they all come out, they all will have the right to sit 6 hours each with the Imam provided their questions are relevant to the case? Would he do that? And hasn't the case management judge been bright in trying to limit the time the Imam can be asked to meet the accused people. And has Gray not been less bright in refusing the 5 minutes because I can see that when he looses his motion, the defendants will not be restricted on the time issue for discovery. So is that appeal not a prove in itself that the interest of the Imam is not protected by Gray?

Tickets for MHI's speech in Toronto
On October 7th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

At Don Mills JK, a man told me that he went to the venue just after the program was made public, and they told him that no tickets were slated to be sold to the public as all tickets were given (or sold) to Ms. Clarkson, former GG, and she would distribute (or sell) the tickets.

* Canada

Tickets will be distributed
On October 8th, 2010 Murid (not verified) says:

Tickets will be distributed to invitees who will be dignitaries, selected leaders guests,and some murids. The LaFontaine-Baldwin Lecture is on issues concerning the public good in Canada. Presented by the Institute for Canadian Citizenship, a national organization founded and co-chaired by the Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson and John Ralston Saul.
I dont think Rt Hon Ms A Clarkson will be selling tickets.

* United Arab Emirates

Editing
On October 7th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Editing is wrong, if a post is not acceptable don't post but changing the whole message ito suit your ehim or opinion is plainly wrong and unethical.

My post's message is completely distorted.

* Canada

The culture
On October 7th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

EDITOR VANCOUVERITTE: It would not be surprising if the saga ends then. See, even in a general speech if he (IMAM) mentions that he has sued these two people for copyright violation then it would be over. That removes any IFs and buts leaving them to then openly defy which they may not do hopefully. There would be no need for a meeting at all in that case.
BLOGLAW: Imam has not said so in any speech for 6 months. Imam also did not say at the LIF & ITREB joint meetings in London recently. Imam invited “any” questions from the leadership present. There were none. There has been no new LIF announcement. Why do you think that is? No one is denying Imam is aware. Everyone is waiting for Imam to intervene and give guidance and for LIF to make another announcement
Is this may be because leaders believe or are told by top leaders not to ask Imam any questions and speak only when spoken. Is this the same when Imam visits the Ismaili centers and the staff are also similarly instructed & reminded to hide in their offices, not to approach Imam or obstruct, because Imam has a very busy schedule etc. Hence the culture and root causes too ?
How wonderful it would be for the Imam and the staff for them to stand when their Imam comes in and walks by. Not a single minute more of the Imam will be taken up but just imagine how the murids there would feel and how members of their families will feel.Do leaders not realise what they say at present?
In India and our eastern cultures even today when the boss enters all stand up in respect and traditionally speak only when they are spoken too.

* United Kingdom

I guarantee
On October 7th, 2010 Alibhai jiwani USA (not verified) says:

I guarantee HI will not speak a word about the case in the lecture.
My gut feeling is the case will continue for a while.
There are going to be major revelations I think.
It is all happening for a greater reason than just 2 individuals who printed farmans.

* United States

@Someone
On October 6th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

Someone wrote (not in Heritage site) in response to the comments made by ‘Another ordinary Murid’ at Heritage site that:
“Hazar imam has the right and can supersede words of earlier Imams”

My comments:
Even a child having some knowledge about our Tariqa knows this truth. Dear Someone, your further write up is based on belief that the plaintiff is HI, while hardly anyone at Heritage site believes so. And they have plenty of reasons to support that.
‘Another ordinary Muirid’ does not and can not and will never use even an iota of derogatory work for HI. If you read him correctly until his last sentence, his firm belief is that HI is not behind the case and that is why He personally does not appear before the court.
Dear brother, you have not replied to his last comment as to what the usurp plaintiff has achieve in last six months with delay tactics.
You also wrote that both Imam Aga HasanAli shah and Imam MSMS were both defendants and appeared in the court on their discretion.
Dear, I want to add to your knowledge that in civil case defendant has no choice. Either he himself or his lawyer or both are required to attend. (T his is a must). Also, besides the attendance of his lawyer, it is to the defendant’s interest that he attends the case. In matter of special importance court even can summon the defendant for certain clarification, and if defendant does not attend then the court can rule entirely in favor of plaintiff, and, in some cases, with cost to defendant.
On the other hand, plaintiff has the discretion to attend the court or not, and he can be represented by his lawyer. But if court gets convinced by the defendant that there is foul play and that the real identity of plaintiff is in doubt, in that case, the court can rule that plaintiff be present in the court or ask plaintiff’s lawyer to provide sufficient proof to the fullest satisfaction of the court as to the real identity of the plaintiff. Failure to do so by plaintiff/ plaintiff’s lawyer, gives the right to the judge to dismiss the case in favor of defendant. This is likely to happen in this case as well.

Evidence!!!
On October 6th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

I was never involved in compiling, recording, transcribing, printing etc. of the almost ten or so books published by Nagib and his associates. Regrettably when I prepared the motion records for bringing the motions for summary
judgement, one piece of evidence I was NOT aware of and i discovered it recently. Had I been aware of the evidence I would have filed it in the court as part of our file and is even more stronger than all the evidence we filed, including the evidence of mehmani guidance. Unfortunately the rules of court will not allow me to file it unless Mr. Gray consents and I dont expect him to.

I might post it online (not decided yet if it is a good idea) at some point and will be very strong evidence to show imam's direct knowledge of the recordings of his farmans by Nagib and his associates. However, this evidence gives me confidence of our stand taken by us.

I am also very grateful to all of my brothers and sisters who have been supporting us, and for their prayers.

* Canada

Sharing and asking is the only way
On October 6th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Leaders and jamat should no longer be afraid or reluctant to ask or share with other leaders and especially the jamat. If they dont then whatever the outcome of this case not much will change and there will be more of the same. I hope you will decide to share the evidence

* United Arab Emirates

Evidence
On October 6th, 2010 Abdul (not verified) says:

Alnaz:

Your efforts to expose the leadership is very commendable. You are our David fighting the Goliath, that the Khoja institutions have become.

Reading the transcripts of Sachedina and Bhaloo, it is a scary thought that the fate of millions of Ismailis are in the hands of these **! Their lack of knowledge of the fundamentals of the Ismaili history or faith is appalling.

Please keep up the good fight because Mowla wants you to.

* Seychelles

Very well said....and have a
On October 7th, 2010 Nick ( Canada) (not verified) says:

Very well said....and have a faith in Mowla ....Insha'allah Truth will be revealed to all the Ismailis. Ameen.

* Canada

Tashbi
On October 7th, 2010 Babu (not verified) says:

I agree with you when you said:Their lack of knowledge of the fundamentals of the Ismaili history or faith is appalling.

No wonder Abu Ali missionary was so furious when "Pir Shah" tashbi was removed.

* Canada

Re: above post of Abdul on Oct. 6
On October 7th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
What a wonderful way of expressing what many of us feel towards the defendants! Thank you for doing that, brother Abdul! I, for one, have never expressed these feelings to them, even though they were in my heart! So, thank you!
To the defendants: please, do hang in there!! Many of us are praying!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Alnaz Jiva
On October 5th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Few days ago "concerned" had posted this comment.
If it is not much trouble if you could give a little more clear reference for the firman so I can refer
I found it interesting and unheard of.
I have gujarati" Kalame Imame mubin" both parts.

Responses
On September 26th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:
As you, I was keeping quiet thinking that let them fight the case and we will get the answers. Now I feel more and more so that keeping quiet is wrong when Mawla urged us to seek accountability, so he expects us to do his fight. For him and for the jamat.

One way is by posting comments, I am also asking mukhis and other leaders for answers and am realizing that so many of our leaders including mukhis have similar thoughts of our imam as Dr. has. Truly shocking and depressing.

I heard the defendant Alnaz talking to some people at don mills JK to expect that as many as 2/3 of our jamats will be discarded by our imam just as previous imams have dumped the jamats. It is food for thought. He quoted a Farman of MSMS to support his argument (I missed the Farman as i was at jk for Samar and missed a part of the talk. I only knew afterwards that he was the defendant himself. I was taken aback, but got thinking of his words. I am seeking the Farman he quoted, and said it was a written Farman.

Can anyone post that Farman for all of us to read and interpret it ourselves?

* United States

Farman MSMS
On October 6th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

I will seek that Farman I was speaking about and can give citation of it, page no. Farman no. and which book. The Farman though is in Gujarati and I don't think can be posted here. Is there somewhere I can fax so this site can maybe either scan it in the comments section or a link to it.

Here is the gist of the Farman of MSMS:
Oh jamat don't think that because I have given a promise to Pir Hasan Kabirdeen that I will salve (taris) you, that I will salve you. I will put life (jeev) into these lights (pointing to bulbs, [ i think chandelier bulbs ], make them Ismailis and salve them and fulfil my promise, but I will let you go (tamne jawa daish).

Since you have the two books please check in the index either Pir HKD' name and try to look for it.

I read some comments of burning the Farman books, my understanding is that only two or three books were returned to distributors across the world after the announcements were made after the litigation commenced. I think only one burnt a book (and I have not been able to confirm that because anyone wanting to rid it could have given to mukhis or council).

None of the people I sold to have returned the book, on the contrary i was told by many no matter what we are not returning the book.

Also note that we have been told by the named plaintiff's lawyer that distributed books can remain and not be returned if we agree to stop distributing the books, return unsold ones and not to print more, and agree that we breached the Copyright Act. We refused to accept the offer, but that offer made confirms further that MHI is NOT the real plaintiff. Why? Because if MHI is if the opinion that these books are a copyright infringement, why allow the sold copies to remain with the jamats who have bought them. Seems contradictory! Either the books are infringement or nor, allowing copies to remain is contradictory to them being 'so wrong' in the first place.

My cross exam of their expert is truly revealing and reaffirms or seems to establish our beliefs that MHI is not the real plaintiff. In some ways their Expert's evidence is important seeing that he is not an Ismaili and may not have even met or influenced by SS or AB or MM.

Alnaz Jiwa

* Canada

Re: above post of Alnaz of Oct. 6
On October 7th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thanks a million for the information you have given above, Alnaz. So useful!!!
And Concerned is going to be happy, no doubt, to be able to trace back the farman which you mentioned and which he was looking for !
We are looking forward to the transcripts of the cross examination of their expert.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Thank you. In addition to
On October 7th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

Thank you. In addition to the offer allowing Ismailies to keep this book (and earlier editions).

The reason advanced for not allowing this book to be distributed is integrity of Farmans. The authenticity of Farmans have not been questioned. So all Farmans in the book are authentic. Most (if not all) who have the books will treasure them and derive immense pleasure and benefit from Farmans.

* United Arab Emirates

Hot news! Re: the other expert .....
On October 5th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

I cross examined their expert today, and as expected have uncovered more serious issues once again. I will do great disservice if I summarize his evidence. The transcript will be ready by the 9th and i trust that this site
will do great service in digesting the evidence and post a report as well as the transcripts as they have superbly done in the past.

You will have to wait for more shocking evidence which will help understand why they are appealing.

* Canada

Re: above post of Alnaz of Oct. 5
On October 6th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thanks a million for sharing this news with us.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Thank you for sharing
On October 5th, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

Thank you for sharing

* United Arab Emirates

I think that those who have the books should wait....
On October 4th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear All,

Ya Ali Madad.

I think that those who have the Friman Books should wait for the outcome
of this Law-suit and wait for the firman of Mowla as to what to do with
the books.

It does no service to any cause by burning them or acting in haste.

Please note that I am neither a Chamcha of Dr. S nor of Mr. Alnaz
or Mr. Nagib.

What I have said is my personal take on this and see things from my own
perspective. I would not burn the Firman Books if I had them. I would
wait for Mowla's firman on them after the case is resolved, one way
or the other. I am following my own conscience here.

People may do what they like, but acting impulsively can hardly
be prudent, when one does not know what Mowla wishes for
those who already have bought the books to do.

I wish you all best of luck, peace and happiness at all tmes.

May Mowla Bless You All. Amen.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Book Burning & Jahils
On October 7th, 2010 ABDUL (not verified) says:

It is truly shameful for the Imam to have to read about book-burnings by Ismailis. Only the Taliban, Nazis and the most ignorant "jahils" resort to suppressing knowledge this way.

Imam wants all Muslims to be pluralistic and in Canada, even children are taught to respect the opinions of those with whom they disagree.

Mr. Tajdin was showing his love for the Imam by doing something that was perfectly OK at the time.(Generations of Ismailis all over the world have copied,translated and distributed farmans, ginans,photos and tapes,CD's, we all know that!).

Imagine the Imam's anger when He learns that the Tajdin and Jiwa families have been physically threatened. (or His shame, if He is asked about this by the press when He comes to make a speech in Canada). One shudders to think of the reactions of these "jahils" if someone were to actually publicly disagree with the "Apex" leaders.That person would be immediately branded "anti-mowla". What next, mob attacks in JK?

To use Imam SMS's analogy, you take bring some Ismailis to Canada, the country of tolerance (pluralism), but you cannot force them abandon their ignorance.

* Seychelles

If I was unsure or thought
On October 5th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

If I was unsure or thought that the Imam is the plaintiff, then in the lawsuit it is stated clearly that Farmans are available in all JK's including in remote locations and that the defendants should return the books to IIS. I would have bought the book because I and my family wanted to read farmans which we could not get from JK's or ITREB'S. So I would check with my local JK and ITREB if I Farmans are available to read in JK or ITREB offices. If so I would hand the book to IIS. IF farmans are not available then I would inform my local leaders about what has been said in the lawsuit by the plaintiff/Imam. I would then also wait until the end of the lawsuit. I would in any event not burn any farmans or any book of Farmans. May mawla guide us all.Ameen

* United Arab Emirates

Burning Farmanbook is like burning Quran!
On October 5th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

I finally saw the Golden book Yesterday , a friend has it.
"Mawla's words" How can you ever even think of shredding or burning?
Any one doing that is no less fanatic than those who wanted to burn Quran.

* United States

Abuse of Trust by Leadership happens in many communities......
On October 4th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear All,

Ya Ali Madad again,

Of late, I have read many extremely interesting things in what many of you
have written. There is a substantial digression that has taken place and a
transition to the ABUSE OF POWER and the abuse of TRUST VESTED
in the LEADERSHIP is becoming the FOCAL POINT, and that rightly
so. ALAS sadly in public and open to and for the rest of the
World to read.

If I had happened to meet you (all of you who are contributing with
your thoughts, theories and other stories that you have to tell)
in a room where only us would have been present, I am dead
sure that (if this subject was taken up) we would all be saying
the same things as we have written here, and we would be
having a very civilised (but a heated) discussion on the same
topic as above. Many may wonder and ask the question, "WHY?"

I, earlier, gave my own analysis of the categories of the
people contributing to this forum. That still stands.
But, now I would like to try and elaborate on the question
that I have mentioned in the foregoing paragraph.
The question "WHY?".

The question can simply be answered by the phrase, "Because
you all care".

Many Ismailis around the World seem to be fed up of the misbehaving Leaders
and their lakies (wherever it may be in the World - i.e. in any Jamat from the
smallest to the biggest) who take advantages of their powerful posts and
implement the practice of supression, moral blackmail, nepotism etc.,
instead of serving the Jamaats & the community by fairly addressing
the issues of and for the Jamaats & Institutions they are appointed
for, by helping to solve, for example, matters of conflicts etc.,
and help to maintain harmony and high standards.

From what I have heard, they even lie in their reports
and often drag their feet and even do not submit
their reports to Mowla (true or not, only Mowla
knows) and to make it easier for themselves
to hang on to their posts they even resort to
playing one murid against the other and resort to
backstabbing, freezing and condemning the
same people that stand by them when
needed (- all in the name of seva to
Mowlana Hazar Imam).
They recommend titles and lucrative positions
for their lakies and relatives.
They seem NOT to have read the Firman about
running after TITLES....
I can go on and fill pages after pages....

These LEADERS do not hesitate to betray the
same murids who also put their trust in these
LEADERS by risking their own reputations
and even lives, all in the name of Mowla.
I have heard of a person being persecuted
and I have also heard from someone, who
alas is no longer with us today and for
whom I had immense respect for and
gratitude, that some Leaders even
intentionally made Mowla wait
.......... out of disrespect.

To betray the TRUST put in oneself in the name of Allah to serve
humankind and the people or the community one belongs to is
(in my humble opinion), not only irresponsible, but outright
criminal.

I am not at all surprised that many in the TOP Layer of the LEADERSHIP
in our community have utlimately come under fire openly.
Those who have abused the power and the trust vested in them
and still continue to misbehave (I am being reluctantly kind
here by using mild form) are, not only seen as a disgrace
but ARE A DISGRACE and are doing great DAMAGE
to the reputations of thousands of the well-behaved
GOOD Leaders all over the World who are
rendering services to the Communities of
not only Ismailis but even to the neighbouring
non-Ismailis included in the remotest areas
of the World all in the name of Mowla.
Those (few on the top) abusers of TRUST and POWER
vested in them are also a threat to the welfare of our community
at large and do much to scare our young ones from following
in the footsteps of many of our forefathers who served with
great devotion, humility, dignity and honesty.

I am not capable of suggesting what should be done with those
Leaders that have misbehaved and those still "Misbehaving".
Alas, these Leaders seem to have forgotten that
on the advent of Akhiraat - (the Day of Kiyamat)
they will also have to answer (like all of us)
for every sin they have committed and will
be Judged accordingly?.
Only Mowla knows best. I am sure he will act, as
and when he sees fit. I have faith in Mowla.
I am sure you have too.
We can be victims or witnesses, but to Judge is in
the hands of Allah the All-Mighty or those He
has chosen to do so.
(Please do not mix "to Judge" with "judgement"
- they are two different things).
Taking the Law in our own hands would only lead
to more misery, chaos and anarchy.

I live in a country where the natives of the Country
are mostly atheists or non-believers but most of
them belong to a Church and are Christians
only in/by name. They are Lutheran Christians.
Majority of the population seldom attends Church
or does it only upon the occasions of Births
Christenings, Weddings or Deaths
(Funerals or Services), if they
at all do so.

But, believe me or not, even if the slightest of a
catastrophy hits them THE CHURCHES get fully
packed and they go down on their knees for
guidance, help, mercy, comfort, solace
redemption and you name it....
At the same time, many of them are the same ones
who deny that GOD exists and many of them
laugh at us who do believe in existence
of Allah(i.e. GOD) and have a faith
to follow.

See the point?
When things hit the ceiling, there is only one entity
that can save us and give us comfort. Almighty Allah
(or God or Baghwan or whatever you may want to
call him).

Please note here that, The Swedes (or for that matter
the people of the NORDIC Countries) are in the top
of the scale of the most generous people when
it comes to giving and are in top of the scale
of the least corrupt people on this Earth.
They do not make abuse of POWER or TRUST
vested in them.

The native Swedes are compassionate good-hearted
and honest and hard working people.
Sweden is the 2nd most high-tech innovations country
in the World, next to the U.S.A.

The minority consists of Catholics, Jews, Immigrant Muslims
(both Sunnis & Shias), Buddhists, Orthodox Christians
from Syria and the rest of the Middle East, Greek
Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox etc.
I have the fortune of having friends in all these
denominations and have at times been
fortunate enough to discuss their faith
with them as a fellow human being
which has been extremely
educating.
One learns something new every minute of the day.

We, the Ismailis have it all served to us on a plate.
And, even then, we find it difficult to appreciate it.
But, let us not give up hope. I think that we have
a better future waiting for us ahead of us.
With Mowla's Grace.

I do not belong to any of the falangs that seem to have
developed, but I wanted to shed some light on my
own thoughts on the situation that has emerged
as a spinoff "topic" from the "issue" of
the Lawsuit in question.
I have my faith in Mowla and still believe that
all of us should act with restraint, as tempting as
it may be to blow the situation out of proportion,
and have patience and respect for eachother
as momin brothers and sisters. And most
of all for our beloved Hazar Imam.

Finally remember, Abuse of TRUST and POWER does not at all apply
uniquely to our community. It happens in other communities too.
Having said that, it does not mean that we have to accept it.

May mowla Bless You All. Amen.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

allaudfin of Sweden
On October 5th, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

My dear Allaudin of Sweden,
Ya ali Madat,

Many thanks for all your prayers and many advices. This afternoon, I read this exchange between Leornardo Bof (LD), a Brazilian Theologist and His “saintété” Dalai Lama (DL). Please, I humby wish to share with you and with all brothers and sisters in this forum and I transcript for all us the exchange.
The Brazilian asked Dalai Lama about “what is the best religion”?
Dalai Lama answer is very interesting:
“The best religion is the one that gets you closest to GOD. It is the one that makes you a better person”.
What is it that makes me better? Asked the Brazilian theologist!
Dalai Lama answered:
“Whatever makes you more compassionate, more sensible, more detached, more loving, more humanitarian, more responsible, and more ethical. The religion that will do that for you is the best religion”! “I am not interested, my friend about your religion if you are religious or not. What really is important to me is your behaviour in front of your peers, family, work, community, and in front of the world”.
“Remember, the Universe is the echo of our actions and our thoughts. The law of reaction and reaction is not exclusively for physics. It is also of human relations. If I act with goodness, I will receive Goodness. If I act with evil, I will get evil”. “
“What our grandparents told us is the pure truth. You will always have what you desire for others. Being happy is not a matter of destiny. It is a matter of option”!
“Take care of your Thoughts because they become Words.
Take care of your Words because they become Actions.
Take care of your Actions because they become Habits.
Take care of your Habits because they become Character.
Take care of your Character because they become Destiny
And your Destiny will be your Life
And there is no religion higher than the TRUTH”

I hope that some Swedish people give you this kind of answer!
But the reflexions are valuable for all us and to Top leaders in our community also!
Sincere regards and Ya ali Madat
Mohez nato

* France

@mohez Nato
On October 7th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani USA (not verified) says:

Thank you
Excellent piece of wisdom! I loved it.

* United States

To Brother Moez on The Theologist Leornardo Bof & Dalai Lama
On October 5th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Brother Moez,

Ya Ali Madad
And thank you for your kind words and also for sharing the discussion
between The Theologist Leornardo Bof & Dalai Lama. It was very
interesting. One learns new things every day.

I agree with Dalai Lama. He is a spiritually HIGHLY enlightened person and is a
man of peace. Hence the Chinese Government has branded him as a
provocator and troublemaker because he wants to see Tibet's
independence from China. He is highly respected in Sweden.

It also depends very much on as to from what perspective one is being looked upon.
Some will think negative about you and some positive.
But, if we do not have any moral values and set rules to live our lives by, then
how can we follow a right path? All religions teach the same thing.
If you are a good person, then you have a good religion.
To be a good person is equal to following a good religion.

Now, we have our beloved Imam-e Zamaan who guides us to live by the rules
and basic principles of humanity.

Sadly, there are millions of people in this World (including Sweden) who
do not seek to live a decent life. A life within the framework of what we
call "A life with good moral values". Alas the times are like that now.

People lie, they hurt other innocent people, they cheat, they steal, they are
greedy, they kill etc. BUT, my brother, WE HAVE TO STICK TO OUR
MORAL VALUES and TREAT OTHERS as WE WOULD LIKE
OTHERS TO TREAT US. With KINDNESS AND WITH
RESPECT AND FAIRNESS.

We can not change the World but we can make a difference and
bring to light if anything is not right. It is our duty.

At the same time it is VERY IMPORTANT to ABSTEIN from
GOSSIP, SPECULATIONS, SLANDER etc. and seek
the TRUTH at all times and always try to do good.

We must never accuse anyone of anything unless
we have solid proof, and that also we have to do
within the framwork of the Law that prevails
in the Country we live in.
We must try to do our best to live a kind of life that
will make our nearest and dearest, our workmates
and the people in our environment whose lives we
touch, happy to have us around.
If we fail, then we have at least tried.
BUT, "TRY, WE MUST" and seek for the TRUTH.

We must listen to our beloved Hazar Imam and follow
his guidance at all times. He is there to guide us and
help us to Siraat-al-Mustakeem because that is THE
TRUTH.

We learn from all and eachother. Learning never ends.

I pray for Mowla's blessings upon all of us. Amen.

I thank you again.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Reasons Why?
On October 4th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Thank you believer; My responses to each of your comments. Of course It is up to the 2 defendants or the leaders to consider to start such a dialogue.

7. I feel this case is not about winning for Nagib or Alnaz but winning for the Imam and the Jamat. Imam will be involved in the dialogue process I have suggested. Nagib and Alnaz will therefore have confirmation of guidance from the Imam. Leaders who will participate in this process will include other top leaders. There will be an open discussions in face to face or video meetings. Nagib and Alnaz can justify a request to include their National presidents or Mukhi and certainly the LIF, ITREB and IIS ICAB Heads will participate. (Even though the defendants are at an advantage in the case, and are about to help bring integrity and a cleanup in institutions, they withdraw to save their own reputation and finances at the detriment of their voluntary service to the Jamat)

8. In view of the above all and the process suggested, all such serious concerns will be addressed (The forgers keep forging letters, checks, Talikas, and maybe worse)

9, You are right the Jamat and leaders have been maintaining a status quo for a long time. I believe the 2 root causes will be addressed.Most leaders and the Jamat are or will be aware. Fear of leaders by the Jamat and will be replaced with love and mutual respect. (Jamat listens even more blindly to top leadership because now they can sue people without even proving that it is Hazar Imam who is the Plaintiff)

9. You are right but in the suggestion there will be guidance from the Imam that Farmans and guidance will be available to all Murids. There will be no reason for murids, scholars or Leaders to fear when asking for farmans or for guidance. This will also give more comfort and be a reason for more to come to our centres and JK more often. There will therefore be more interaction. (The Jamat keeps being separated more and more from the Imam and his guidance is no longer a way of life, but only a way of 5-minutes-in-jk-censored-guidance)

10. The process suggested is clear about access to farmans and guidance. What is agreed will be re-endorsed and blessed by the Imam. Leaders will be a part of the process. The Jamat will also be informed of the excellent news and their feed back and questions will be encouraged. They will have no reason to fear. (Jamat now follows Mr Sachedina's point of view that Farmans are not to be followed when you hear them in Didar, wait a few months or years for the Farman to come through itreb before starting to follow it. And if it doesn't come out, forget about it)

11. I don’t understand this comment. If this case is settled by conciliation suggested. The leaders will implement guidance. Attendance in Jk will increase. Attendance at Darbar will also increase significantly. (So, what's the point of Didar attendance? Darbar attendance declines thus saving lots of costs of darbar preparation to institutions)

12. I believe ITREB and the Institutions would not go back but go forward and move on. Because leaders down the line and bottom up will be proactive and to ensure farmans and guidance are available immediately. The settlement will be a catalyst for the 2 root causes. These will addressed as a consequance of the dialogue. There will be the checks and balance in practice in the institutional process. (Farman status goes back to what it was before Nagib started circulating Farmans, so that ITREB would stop feeling the pressure and would not circulate most of the farmans, and those that would be circulated would have VAST differences from the taped version)

The reason I am suggesting this is so that if all else is agreed in an open dialogue between the leadership and the defendants, and this will be blessed by the Imam, and we do not need to have any criminal consequences against our brothers or sister or our institutions. We should forgive and seek forgiveness if we have unknowingly hurt anyone. Let the Imam & the leadership decide on the changes. (Bloglaw, why would the defendants do "#1. Defendants admit the plaintiff is H H Prince Karim Aga Khan" when all evidence points to the contrary??? Do you have any new information???)

Finally during any such open discussions the root causes, related questions and issues will be inevitable come up and will be discussed openly. This is necessary in order to rebuild confidence and trust because the concerns of Nagib and Alnaz’s are shared by most leaders and the Jamat regarding especially the root causes which led to this lawsuit. I hope the defendants will make the first move. It is highly unlikely that the leaders in question or Mr Gray will make a move for a dialogue or conciliation. In making a first move, I do not believe it is a sign of weakness. If the leaders through Mr Gray decline then they will have at least tried.

* United Kingdom

Gray's appeal to another
On October 4th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Gray's appeal to another Judge to set aside Prothonotary Tabib's Order speaks volume. What you suggest is not going to happen and settlement does not seems to be an option for either party.

legal challenges, hurdles,
On October 5th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

legal challenges, hurdles, frustrations and uncertaintty in court proceedings are normal, and specially more so in this lawsuit where there are very high profile individuals and lawyers involved with access to unlimited political and economical resources. I see no harm if the defendants or the leaders attempted to have a dialogue whilst the court process continues.

* United Arab Emirates

Re: above post of librarian-umed of Oct. 4th
On October 5th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Do we know when the result of the appeal will be made public, Librarian-Umed?
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

The Appeal will be heard on
On October 5th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The Appeal will be heard on 12th October in Ottawa. All these days, the Imam will be in Canada.

Re: above post of librarian-umed of Oct. 5th
On October 6th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for replying to my question, Librarian-Umed. This gives us time to pray EXTRA-HARD.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

DIALOGUE AND THE TWO ROOT CAUSES
On October 4th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

The following can be a basis to re start a dialogue between the defendants and the Leaders/Mr Gray. This will be without prejudice and the defendants can make the first move If they have not;

1. Defendants admit the plaintiff is H H Prince Karim Aga Khan;

2. Defendants admit plaintiff’s copyright in all his Farmans and Taliks’s

3. The Aga Khan has agreed to meet the two named defendants entirely at his discretion and convenience for 15 minutes to seek forgiveness and guidance from him. (Mr Gray had offered a meeting in his offer. Mr Gray and or the leaders including other leaders who have so far not been included can be and they can together assure the defendants.. An opportunity to rebuild confidence and trust)

4. The Plaintiff withdraws his claims except that he has copyright which has been admitted by the defendants.

5. No order as to costs

6. The defendants agree not print or distribute books of Farmans or talikas of the Imam. The books in possession of Nagib Tajdin to be delivered to the IIS. (No Injunctions or investigations into numbers or profits )

6 The defendants as members of the community will have access to Farmans and for them to share Imam’s guidance amongst members of the community.

When agreement is reached, Imam’s guidance & instructions will be requested by Mr Gray and the Leaders, which they will confirm to the defendants and jointly to the court.

The two root causes which led to this unprecedented lawsuit to be addressed are;

1 Members of the community have limited and encounter difficulties to access Imam’s Farmans & guidance in all JK’s and or ITREB. (This is still the case and all leaders are aware and have responsibility to enable and ensure)

2 The widening gap between Imam’s institutional and established guidance on best practices and what are in fact the ground realities in practice. (All leaders are aware and have a responsibility to enable and ensure )

I hope and pray that this case will be settled by dialogue and agreement, and I pray it is sooner rather than later

* United Kingdom

You are missing some steps - as well as a reason: why???
On October 4th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

7. Even though the defendants are at an advantage in the case, and are about to help bring integrity and a cleanup in institutions, they withdraw to save their own reputation and finances at the detriment of their voluntary service to the Jamat.

8. The forgers keep forging letters, checks, Talikas, and maybe worse.

9, Jamat listens even more blindkly to top leadership because now they can sue people without even proving that it is Hazar Imam who is the Plaintiff.

9. The Jamat keeps being separated more and more from the Imam and his guidance is no longer a way of life, but only a way of 5-minutes-in-jk-censored-guidance

10. Jamat now follows mr Sachedina's point of view that Farmans are not to be followed when you hear them in Didar, wait a few months or years for the Farman to come through itreb before starting to follow it. And if it doesn't come out, forget about it.

11. So, what's the point of Didar attendance? Darbar attendance declines thus saving lots of costs of darbar preparation to institutions

12. Farman status goes back to what it was before Nagib started circulating Farmans, so that ITREB would stop feeling the pressure and would not circulate most of the farmans, and those that would be circulated would have VAST differences from the taped version.

Bloglaw, why would the defendants do "#1. Defendants admit the plaintiff is H H Prince Karim Aga Khan" when all evidence points to the contrary??? Do you have any new information???

THE OPTIONS
On October 3rd, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

What are the options to stop this lawsuit;

1 IMAM ADMITS HE IS NOT THE PLAINTIFF. This has not happened so far and seems will never happen. The consequences and impact will be significant not for those directly involved but institutionally. Such an admission could also lead to potential criminal consequences.

2 DEFENDANTS ADMIT TO EVERYTHING. This will never happen. The defendants will not go against earlier farmans and guidance from their Imam. Notwithstanding this, they do not trust the leaders involved and there will be potential claims against them not from the Imam but some of parties.

3 THE DEFENDANTS RECONSIDER THE OFFER MADE BY GRAY, This is very unlikely to happen because the defendants have said no to this offer for good reasons (see earlier post on that offer)

4 A MEETING OF 5 MINUTES AT THE IMAM’S CONVENIENCE. In this meeting the Defendants will effectively seek forgiveness and seek direct guidance from their Imam which they will obey without question. This seems unlikely as there is an appeal to set aside the order which the Imam is aware of.

5 THE TOP LEADERS TO MEET THE DEFENDANTS (WITH MR GRAY) to discuss and use this an opportunity to reassure and give reason for more confidence and trust in the Leadership by confronting the root causes of distrust.

a. Some leaders may argue that there is ongoing litigation, the defendants will not change their minds, the Imam may not agree to such conciliation between leaders & defendants, and the lawyers have advised against this or without them present etc.

b. These arguments are the some of the bigger bumps along the way for which they have the vehicles to ride smoothly over. Imam assured us in the London GJ Farmans. There is every reason now to use the vehicle effectively and proactively.

The defendants & Leaders will have considered some of the above options. May be now it is time to re-visit the options and start a new dialogue. Dialogue in conciliation is the only and the best option and never too late too start. Watch this space for the 2 root causes which led to this situation and a basis to start a new dialogue for conciliation (Definition - to bring a disagreement to an end, or overcome, anger, suspicion, and or hostility)

* United Kingdom

@bloglaw
On October 3rd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Why are we still talking of settlement?
If Imam wanted to stop the lawsuit he would have done it in "a second" long time ago.
The reason He did not do it is because he wants it to take its natural course.
The court gave an order to plaintiff to give a meeting with defendants but Hazar Imam is not the real plaintiff he is not obliged to do so.
Defendants are saying all along that HI is not the plaintiff and they have given forensic evidence to that effect.
Now it is up to the court to figure out whether defendants are right or Gray is right.
If Gray keeps on putting out motion after motion avoiding to bring the plaintiff in , how long can he go on ?
At some point the court will say produce your plaintiff otherwise we will dismiss this case in favor of the defendants.
That will be the end.

Why is everyone thinking of settlement still?
That is not a desirable outcome at all. It is way past the time of settlement.
"Dismissal of the lawsuit" as being fake is the best desirable outcome.
Summary judgement in favor of defendants is "imminent." to my mind.
This is the best vehicle without too much bumps.

Hazar Imam will guide us next how to deal with institutions and leaders.
That is an internal matter to deal later on and I am sure LIF meeting on 4th sept may have some insights of Hazar Imam's thoughts.
His message to jamat was as read in JK in early Sept 2010 instructing LIF:
"Communicate"
To my jamat my "my special blessings, my special blessings , my LOVE, my thoughts, and my affection
I have articulated my thoughts to the leaders and and in due course they will communicate them to you"

Why would Hazar Imam get involved publicly at all?.There is no need.
He never started it.
Let whoever started it end it.
Let the court give the judgement .Period.
The history will NEVER say Imame zaman sued a murid.

* United States

Re: Alibhai's above post
On October 3rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you so much for your post and brilliant summary, dear Alibhai Jiwani, and particularly your last line!! Finally, someone else than me is saying that (= last line) on this site! Yeah!!
Thank you also for the line,"Let whoever started it end it. Let the court give the judgment. Period." I just hope it does not take another 6 months, for, quite frankly, I feel exhausted at times by the waiting...
Again, thank you!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Alibhai's above post
On October 4th, 2010 Jenny (not verified) says:

The waiting is where the test of faith is. The Court has given its ruling.
If there are motions after motions, appeals after appeals, the truth will eventually be so clear to the rest of the global jamat,and inshallah maybe there is a top leader somewhere who will stand up and say, "enough is enough"

This is where all our Salwats and Mushkil Aasan tasbhis will guide for the out come that Mowla wants.

* Canada

@ Bloglaw: Wait a minute!
On October 3rd, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

There is one important consideration missing in the above post by bloglaw:

This has happened so often in ismaili history at the times of different Imams starting from Imam Ali, that it would be naive to assume that it can never happen during the Imamat of our beloved Hazar Imam:

If there are leaders at a high level who are misusing the Imam's Name, Circumventing protocols, following nonexistent clauses of the constitution, and worst of all Forging the Imam's signature (possibility of false announcements, or worse: false checks, or worse: false talikas, or worse yet: false Will etc... soooo grave!!)

Then should there be conciliation and everything be swept under an institutional rug?
Or should true ismailis take a stand to bring integrity to institutions - even if it involves a court judgement and a major cleanup?

Let us not let history repeat itself as it predictably does every time in these cases, where majority decides to follow the impostor thinking they are being good murids when they have actually lost the Imam (and access to Farmans) a long time ago...

There are bright red flags throughout this case, we are an educated Jamat who should question those instead of burying our heads in the sand.

Everyone agrees Leaders must
On October 4th, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

Everyone agrees Leaders must not bury their heads in the sand. They are aware and it is their commitment and responsibility to act and react in concert to confront and address the critical issues highlighted by this case
.
When the top 50 leaders met in London 3 weeks ago for 10 days, this lawsuit was not on the agenda or discussed nor were THE critical issues. One of the no no topics. Behind closed doors of course most know and talk. Imam did not mention this lawsuit in his speech when he spoke to leaders for nearly one hour and He gave an opportunity to leaders to ask questions.

The Jamat looks forward to leaders to communicate Imams thoughts and guidance which they discussed amongst themselves in London. A video of the speech or excerpts would be fantastic.

Most Leaders agree privately that both conciliation and change are required, but the question is whether and when will they do so, or is everyone waiting for someone else or for a judgement in this case.

* United Arab Emirates

@Pirani
On October 4th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Thank you for this important information.
I had a bet with a friend that I had bet Mawla must not have said a word about the lawsuit in the LIF meeting. And he said that is unlikely. Thanks for confirming that not a word was spoken by Hazar Imam.

* United States

Re: Believer's above post
On October 3rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for this important note, Believer.
Those of us who are not in "that majority that bury their head in the sand", what can we do not allow history to repeat itself in a tragic manner? Is there any thing we can do?
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

What Leaders and Jamat need
On October 4th, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

What Leaders and Jamat need to do is read, understand, discuss and give reasoned and constructive feedback without fear to their brothers and sisters and if they are leaders to their Leaders. If any leader is not happy with any leaders as Imam has said talk to them and amongst yourselves. Leaders can make a huge difference and they have in place are the institutional mechanisms to do so.

* United Arab Emirates

Bravo!!
On October 3rd, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

I agree with your views. MHI has stressed so many times about knowing our history - how many of us bother to do so and the result is that majority is 'kicked' out of the jamat. I remember reading in of the documents of the defendants where MHI said Ismailis lose the right to be part of the jamat.

Well said.

* Canada

Reading in to the mind of the top leader
On October 3rd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

I think Hazar imam has not initiated this lawsuit but a couple of close working leaders have.
Reading into the mind of one such leader ( A writer's imagination):

“ How to convince this Nagib guy to stop printing these Farman books? How come he is doing what my team is suppose to do? And he has actually done it quite well. But I was supposed to do this. Tarika people are not happy with him either. I never liked him from the beginning since Nairobi time.

He is going to get all the goodwill and Imam’s recognition? What will jamat think of my team and me? We will look bad.

My team does not even have publishing Farman book in the near term agenda yet. It has been only 25years since last small firman booklet Precious gems vol 1! It is not like they are slow or anything.

I have "an idea" actually it is quite simple to stop him. It is very important for my team and me.

Just send one letter with Hazar Imam’s name and considering these guys are so religious they will instantly stop and great! Mission accomplished! I was allowed to sign Imam’s letters any ways when his arm was injured! No big deal! I have open access to the Secretariat always. I don’t think He will mind. He is so busy! So many things for him to worry about any ways! He is a kind man.He does not interfere much.

Let me just go ahead and do it and the letter is going as an attachment to e-mail.
Thank God for technology!
What? Nagib found out it was a forged signature?
No way! It was so close almost real.So far no one found out.
Now what?
I am going to make this man pay for his intellect!
I am no less smart!
This second letter with Imam’s handwritten sentences, in a million years Nagib cannot challenge how can he?
This must work otherwise I am in trouble.
What? Nagib wants real letter by mail?
What? Nagib is disputing authenticity of this cleverly manufactured piece of technology ?

I thought I was good at cut and paste and superimpose technique.
Now what? I should have been more careful with using papers with logo etc .why did I use the same old paper on 2nd page? I am a little careless.
I am so angry with my self and everything else!!! I wish I could do something so serious instantly to end this!
I must teach him a grave lesson.He does not know how much power I have.
He does not know what I can do to him and his family I will ruin them! I am so angry! I think phone warnings will not work on him.

Let me just file a copyright lawsuit on him that is bound to scare the hell out of him! I am not sure but this can go as a copyright infringement.I hear his term so often in real world.
Letter from the federal court of Canada and the man is going to come running to me asking for mercy.I am the CEO.
Copyright is only a civil lawsuit! I can do it.
This kind of lawsuits happens all the time in corporations and they are managed by the CEO s almost always. I just have to do one paper.

I don’t want Imam to be bothered or come to know.
It will be over soon and Mawla will be happy that I took care of such a big problem on my own so efficiently!
Not a big deal!
Convincing LIF is not a problem! A piece of cake.
And the jamat is so obedient! Mawla has given so many credits to institutions during GJ they will believe us like a Farman!
No doubt!
They love their Mawla so much they will easily believe whatever I say in his name!
Now I am desperate I have to finish this game ASAP.I am already frustrated by this 2 renegades

(Top law firm in Canada called, lawsuit filed ASAP)
Oops! forgot to serve Nagib?
Alnaz was served but wasn’t he the one managing the website? He needs to be taken care of anyways. Ismaili.net such a great site even the Alvaezs and scholars go there for researches can you believe that?
How embarrassing for my IIS and Tarika boards! My guys are doing nothing. Not my fault!

What? Lawsuit filed and defendants are still not scared or freaked out! How stupid!
Did I do this wrong or hastily?
May be I should have thought it over? What if Mawla does not stand by? It was not supposed to go this far anyways.
But the copyright lawsuit is supposed to be a civil suit not a big deal?
Man now what?
How to handle this?
Every one is discussing on Ismaili.net. Lot of Momins are thinking I am the guilty one.
No!! Ismailis were not supposed to go on that site after those announcements remember? , How crazy the jamat is!! Nafarmani? Shame on them!

But bingo!
I heard Nagib and Alnaz Glorified their Mawla and showed their willingness to submit everything if they found that Mawla is the Plaintiff! They are not going to fight!
Thank God!
Now I can come out of this mess. I hope Mawla is not sneaking on that website.LIF members are prohibited to go on that site by my orders.

Attorney Gray said it is actually quite simple to bring it to closure. What you need is just an affirmation from Imam to end the matter.
No big deal!
Mawla does not have to be involved as yet! Why bother him I am capable of handling these kinds of issues this is my work!He approves my judgement most of the time.
Easy to create one document! Notary? Big deal?
Outside Canada, Outside Paris third country! USA. I have access to everything I need!
Who is going to verify? Pay extra.

I can easily pull this through!
Once the affirmation is circulated how can Nagib do any thing else. The jamat can be convinced affirmatively with this piece of paper. LIF no problem.They are a bunch of yes heads.
Nagib and Alnaz must abide by their condition of unconditional submission!

By now Hazar Imam is aware of everything? I thought he would never know?
Should I let him know?
I am sure for the sake of the integrity of institution and his reputation he will back me.
And I am protecting his Farmans from these stupid guys who want to make farmans accessible world wide like it is not enough to have them in JK? I am certainly working in his favor.
What should I do? I must tell the Imam. Now I am worried.

I have to but will he come in so late in the game? Will he be angry that I went ahead by myself?
But never mind he is so mellow he never yells.
He never fires any one.
He is cool! He likes me. He made me Vazir.
He trusts me. He takes me to all the trips. But will he be upset?
Months have passed.
But why is Imam not bothered as yet?
I thought he would be at least upset!

May be He does not care for this kind of small stuff! Or he wants me to handle it?
I cannot read The man’s mind! So Peck! He is calm and cool. I can’t tell anything.
Why can’t he atleast let me know what is he thinking? For heaven’s sake! Why is he so quiet? I cannot bear his silence.
Why can’t he declare, “ Stop all this I am not the plaintiff!” I want him to get angry and finish this matter.
Shafik, call and withdraw the case. Why does not he say that?
I am with him for almost 14 years but man I cannot fathom what is in his mind?
He is so deep he is not speaking a word?
How weird!

Here I am using his name and I am in the middle of the worst crisis and this guy is quietly sipping his coffee and preparing for his Mali visit and La Fontaine Baldwin lecture and meeting at Ottawa on pluralism etc. How unconcerned for me?
Here I am shaking and freaking out day and night!

Cross exam was a disaster! Gray is no good? He did not even tell me what answers to give!
This stupid Tazdin he is not even a lawyer and how the hell he knew how to do all these legal inquiries man he was tough! I wonder if a top attorney trained him or someone was prompting him in the exams from under the table?
I thought this Alnaz guy was a 5 dollar lawyer what was he suppose to know?

But man he spanned me on the issue of Farman publishing approval like nuts!
“Approval in principle” is like we are supposed to publish in 2days to 2years? It will take years before such a massive project can be finished! How can I handle so much! It will take at least 5 years by Diamond jubilee may be we will have something done.

It was so important to have an article in constitution regarding copyright of Firmans but this Imam just removed it I can’t understand why?
48 th Imam was better he at least had that article in constitution. It would have been so much easier for me.

I have so many responsibilities not like I have time to do them and Farmans are read in Jk everyday! Why does jamat need a farman book anyways?Only a few fanatics want to read Firmans all the time rest of us have no time! You can make an appointment with Tarika board if you are crazy about reading them. Just like you make for a doctor. Like it is any hassle to do so?
Just do tasbih that’s enough!! Mawla said so! Did’nt he?
Let the next batch of leaders do this boring job of compiling and publishing Farmans
I am just happy traveling with Imam everywhere and eating Buffets in various countries with big people how fun!I am so lucky.I get so much honor!

What? Nagib refused the settlement?
I thought the guy was nuts about meeting Imam I thought he will agree to anything for those 5 minutes
What? he is refusing to sign the paper saying he accepts that real plaintiff was Hazar Imam?
He must sign that.
Otherwise he will not leave me afterwards.
Any ways Imam is still quiet so let me continue.

He must otherwise at least tell me what to do next. Like his name is not at stake here?
His leadership is in trouble he must protect us.I am his CEO.He has no choice?
May be he is thinking I am capable handling my own troubles. I am quite experienced actually.
Gray is smart he will save me for sure.
How he brought our own forensic expert! How smart!
He can always bring in motion after motion.
As long as I can keep Imam from meeting them the game can continue
But man I am nervous! That’s why I made mistakes in cross exams.

All these Momins on Ismaili.net say Mawla is Ali Allah and he knows everything in and out!
How freaky! They have their own religion! . They think Mawla is Omniscient! I never felt that way. I wonder why?
But the guys on Vancouverite are supporting me! Thank god! They are so sweet. I will keep going till they are with me.I

May be I must start BK bandagi and Jamatkhana attendance then may be I will also be helped? Remember, when I was a Mukhi I was so good in Jamatkhana attendance? It helped me to go so high; I must start again a.m. and p.m.
For now it is okay .Let us just see what Atty Gray is saying.

He is thinking of not abiding by court order and bringing in a motion to stop the meeting
Thank God otherwise how would I have convinced Imam to meet them?
He knows nothing of this stuff. It does not look like he wants to be involved at all!”
Disclaimer:
It is only a writer’s imagination. No one is claiming it to be true.

* United States

Re: Alaudin Alibhai's above post of Oct. 3rd
On October 4th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Bravo!! Bravissimo!! This is such a good, possible scenario!! It looks so real is some places!! Thank you for it! I must admit I did laugh very hard in a couple of places...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Sorry Kanize - It was Alibhai Jiwani who wrote on 3rd Oct
On October 5th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Mominsister Kanize,

There was a mix up.

It was not I that wrote what you liked very much
on 3rd Oct. It was Mr. Alibhai Jiwani.

Just to put the facts right.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

@Kanize
On October 5th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Are you mistaking Alibhai jiwani for Alaudin ?
please check the name .
thanks

* United States

Bravo bravo
On October 5th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

I too read it a couple of times and it felt as if SS wrote it himself. It was assuming but realistic.

So many write such wonderful posts. Keep it up.

* Canada

Inside the mind of top leader
On October 4th, 2010 Jenny (not verified) says:

WOW!!!, Alibhai Jiwani, this is the best synopsis ever!..I know you've said it's only a writer's imagination, but it could also be true.

I pray that May Mowla grant us the wisdom and guidance to do the right thing.

* Canada

@ Alibhai Jiwani
On October 4th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

My imagination matches your imagination, but it is slightly stretched further:
These ordinary duo—Nagib and Al Naz—have really become pain in my neck. Lately some sleepless nights too.
My doctor says take rest but don’t take stress and no sleeping pills. I never took stress… but …well……this is entirely different situation. Though I have played my game well, but these two suborned persons are really horrible.
I have been very successful in my life …I rose from Mukhi to member of council and then reached to the top and now I am CEO. …No one ever challenged me but these diehard Murids.
Now who can save me… thought…? Horrible, why did I teased these two guys…but well need a lesson or two.
I don’t understand why so many guys are supporting this Heritage web… this is a very nasty, awesome site ….Are some people foolish…Why are they unfair to me… I have to admit they never use uncivilized language, but they need to have trust in their top leadership rather than these two guys. I think all these guys needs to be taught a lesson or two, too. .. But how….well I will see them later, but I must come out from this quagmire first.
For last couple of days, I am also experiences headache…these incorrigible stubborn persons….pain in my neck.
Yes, Mr. Gray is a very nice guy…only he can save me… but for how long. If necessary, I will pay him more….but Heritage people say … not more than two years. Then what?
Oh my God, it’s already 2 a.m...Its sleeping time…where is my sleeping pills bottle?

Disclaimer: No one claims it to be true

Wow !!!
On October 4th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Well written and thought out. I am truly impressed by many writers who are very knowledgeable, dedicated and are right on point.

The above post is well written and thought out.

* Canada

Why delay? What is the purpose?
On October 2nd, 2010 Another Ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

In response to a question posed to a journalist as to why Mr. Gray filed his expert’s affidavit at this later stage, and why HI can not come to court to clarify the signature problem, the journalist wrote (not at Heritage site): “Ever heard difference in dignity between one of the greatest souls on the earth and the two people have delusion of divine message and mission……”

First of all let me correct him that HI is not one of the …. But He is the soul of the souls. Next, that person wants us to believe that dignity of HI is affected if he comes to the court to testify.

Brother, would you please let me know whether all Imams are equal or not and that each one is in fact Maula Ali? Now listen, in Barbhai’s case (1866) Imam Aga Hasan Ali Shah filed an affidavit and he also appeared in Bombay High court to testify before Justice Josheph Arnold. In the similar fashion, MSMS filed an affidavit and appeared in the same court before Justice Russell and testified in Haji Bibi case (1908).

Do you see that two Imams during their tenure presented themselves before Bombay High court, which was not the highest court of India? I have also read that Maula Ali, our first Imam, appeared before a Qazi court when he was both Imam and the fourth caliph of Islam.

So why can not HI present before the highest court of Canada to clarify/ testify for his case, when according to His purported or so called first letter, He wanted immediate stopping and circulation of the Farman Book? His presence in the court would have not only instantly achieved the whole purpose but also would have proved the defendants to be liars.

Now just let us know, how can we believe that this case has been filed by HI, and at the same time, He is not ready to come to the court to testify?

Agreed, as per His so called second letter, He did not want to meet Nagib. But what is the problem of attending the court only once and that too for few minutes just to say that He has written those letters. And in that case Nagib and Al Naz, as per their affidavits, have no alternative but to fulfill all the demands HI.
Taking again the point of dignity, where was HI’s dignity when He stood before an ordinary notary, presented His French passport to him and signed before him knowing well that this original affirmation/affidavit was never going to be submitted in the court by his lawyer Mr.Gray?

By delaying the case for about six months or so, what has the plaintiff achieved? Nothing. On the other hand, in the absence of the court injection, the defendants have more than six months of time to print and sale/distribute all the remaining stock. The end result – even the case is won by the plaintiff, there wouldn’t have left any copies to which IIS can take into their possession. Was this not the main demand in the plaint of the plaintiff?

Can then anybody tell what the purpose/ motive is behind filing this case? To intimidate defendants and to ruin them financially in the community? If these are the motives, is it any difficult to guess as to who is using the plaintiff’s name?

@ Another Ordinary Murid
On October 4th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

You have rightly pointed out flaws. Next I went to my distant relative’s house in Karachi and to my surprise I found at least four Farman books not printed or published by any Ismailia Association or Tariqa Board. Though she has some books of Ismailia Association. The most surprising thing is that one book was ‘the book’ related to this case. I don’t know how she got it, nor did I ask. But it also means there may be other copies in Karachi, Bombay and possibly else where too with other Ismailis.

When I informed my aunt that this copy is unauthorized and announcement to this effect is already made at Canada and Nairobi by LIF. She said why I should bother. The announcement is not made here.

Is it not right that such announcement be made by LIF all over Pakistan, India, Bangla Desh etc., too.
Also on behalf of plaintiff, Mr. Gray should have obtained injunction against printing and distribution by the defendants initially before the start of the case. There might not be any copies left with distributor.

So you are right in saying that in these last six months plaintiff has achieved nothing. This also leads me to believe that the case is not filed by HI.

Why delay? What is the purpose
On October 3rd, 2010 sakarbai (not verified) says:

just wait for the lighting bolt to strike on nagib n alnaz

Re: above post of Another Ordinary Murid
On October 3rd, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for sharing this with us, brother. I do hope you were able to clarify matters for the journalist in question on the website concerned also...
To my knowledge, the sale of the books of Farman was stopped very early in the year...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

But what is the problem of attending
On October 3rd, 2010 Alaudn Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Momin Brother/Sister,

Ya Ali Madad.

You have made several statements that are very true.

Until the ruling against it being the 2nd letter is made (this is my opinion, from my own experiences) the letter from Mowla is not a His so called second letter but it is the second letter. Disregarding, what the truth might be you have already casted doubt upon the credibility of Mowlana Hazar Imam.

You also ask, and here I quote you Sir, "Taking again the point of dignity, where was HI’s dignity when He stood before an ordinary notary, presented His French passport to him and signed before him knowing well that this original affirmation/affidavit was never going to be submitted in the court by his lawyer Mr.Gray?".I Unquote you.

You have here questioned Mowla's dignity, and you are asking a question pertaining to that to the rest of the world. You are also asking, I quote you, "Can then anybody tell what the purpose/ motive is behind filing this case?", I unquote you, and you are asking, I quote you, "But what is the problem of attending the court only once and that too for few minutes just to say that He has written those letters.", I unquote you.

Perhaps you could write to Mowlana Hazar Imam (through your Regional Council or via Mukhi Kamadias) and ask him yourself, and that is possible. Only Mowla knows the truth. He IS THE TRUTH. Your questions can not be answered by anyone other than our beloved Mowlana Hazar Imam. He is the Lord and as I said He is THE TRUTH and knows THE TRUTH in this case too.

Mowlana Hazar Imam is Imam-e-Zamaan, and Mowla has said time and again that The Imams of the time act, guide and lead his murids and make changes according to the time during His Imamat. Hazar Imam has lead us and guided us all these years and even given us advice with regard to near future and future at large in the long run. Hence you question HIS DIGNITY.

Mowlana Sultan Mahomed Shah datar (sws) mentioned again and again that one can take the Horse to the water-hole but it is upto the Horse to drink the water or not.

You, my momin brother/sister, are GUESSING equipped with (like many others on this forum) very little information (none of us has all the information) as to what the truth is and making assumptions that someone wants to intimidate and (financially) ruin our Momin brothers Nagib and Alnaz, and then asking the question if it is difficult to guess as to who is using the plaintiff's (for decency you could have used "Mowlana Hazar Imam's name" here) name.

The turth is never arrived at by way of speculations, Inuendos, guesswork and assumptions when one is not equipped with all the material pertaining to the case. Guessing and inuendos do not work in a civilised Country. They may very well work in a very corrupt country or a so called Banana Republic. Thankfully, Canada is neither.

Moreover, I have read on this forum much about how powerful both Mr. Nagib and mr. Al Naz are and how they are pounding Mr. Gray and the witnesses of Mowla (as he is still the Plaintiff until proven otherwise i the Court) and are on the winning streak. I don't think that these two gentlemen are that weak that anyone can just go and ruin them when they are powerful enough to question Mowlana Hazar Imam's signature's authenticity. They ARE POWERFUL and I do not think that anyone can ruin them.

According to my perception of what you have written, You are belittling him by addressing Mowla like you would address a small kid or someone out of line when you use the phrase "But what is the problem of attending ............etc.".

I really do not think that what you have written, helps Mr. Nagib and Mr. Al Naz and therefore they must get a chance to defend themselves without all guessworking from others.

Finally, please DO NOT FORGET that Mr. Nagib and Mr. Al Naz are Mowla's murids as much as you and I are and that we should all PRAY for a quick and fair solution to this matter.

I wish you well, and May Mowla Bless You. Amen.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden.

* Sweden

Why delay? What is the purpose?
On October 2nd, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Very well said, this is so fishy, Mr Gray does not want the case to end, he is trying everything possible by law to just postpone, to argue, Mr Sachedina wants to show us that he is the man with power, his goal is to ruin Nagib and ALnaz and the family in every way possible, financial, reputation. Is this an Ismaili thinking, Mowla keeps saying to us that we are brothers and sisters, share what you have in excess, help those who need help, I don't see any of this on that leader. But as Mowla told us in Tanzania in 82, it is for the defendants of course, `' where there is a will, there is a way and our will is the ismail will''. Alnaz and Nagib, as I said before, our prayers are with you, Mowla chose you to fight against this bureaucracy and this power of some people working close to him, and you have the guts to do it and not to forget to stay humble.

* Canada

Gray appeals Tabib's Order
On October 1st, 2010 Praying in India (not verified) says:

The Docket says that there is a Notice of Motion on behalf of Plaintiff for an Order setting aside the Order of Prothonotary Tabib dated 24-SEP-2010

Are the lawyers trying to derail the process and avoid the fastest way to resolve the issue. Proof enough that they are not representing the Aga Khan and they will drag the reputation of the Imam and the Jamat in the mud.
But we have also to understand them: How do they tell the judge that they can not bring the Aga Khan at the table without being themselves in trouble? At some point they will have to, but there too much at stake for them.
I think this appeal is a complete disregard for the process put in place by the prothonotary Tabib who was trying to bring the file to a fast closure.

Common sense question and answer.
On October 2nd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

If Hazar Imam indeed wanted Nagib and Alnaz to stop publishing and distributing the farman books the simplest and sure effective method would have been to send a brief "talika" instructing Jamat Not to read any farman book other than the one published by tarika board.
This one sentence "farman talika" would have made the entire world jamat do exactly what Mawla wants regarding firman publication forever .
"It is Farman" No "ifs" and "buts" period.
Nagib and Alnaz would have been automatically discredited.No one would buy their books
No harsh LIF announcements needed , no law suit , nothing.
Straight and simple.
Therefore I believe it is not Mawla who has done this lawsuit it is almost clear.
Why would he take a rough road when short straight forward road is right there?
Mawla just cannot be the plaintiff my heart says again and again

* United States

Re: Alibhai's above post
On October 3rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Sorry if this sounds rude, but, alas, I would not, I could never trust such a Talika as the one you mention in your post (for the very reasons given by Alnaz here below).
And rest assured your heart is right when it tells you again and again that it is not Mowla Bapa who has engaged this law suit: an Imam would NEVER sue a mureed whose bayyat He has accepted, period.
I don't stop being baffled at the number of people who still do not see or know or remember this simple truth...No offense meant.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Talika?
On October 2nd, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

I am fearful that some our our leaders have forged MHI's signature and.a forged Talika can be sent to the jamats, there is a precedent for same.

Acordingly I would not rely on a Talika today as 100% foolproof.

My belief is that IF, a big if, MHI has been frowning upon the Farman books distribution which has been ongoing at least simce 1992, he could have made Farmans across the world during the Golden Jubilee deedars against the buying of these books and even publishing the books.

Other option he had was to prohibit these activities in the Constitution.

* Canada

The Imam would never send
On October 2nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The Imam would never send such a Talika as the Farman book, Golden Edition, was published following His instructions, with His blessings and a million miracles which are needed to finish such a project. Those who have seen the book and read it would understand. Those who have shredded and burned the Farmans book will never understand. These two groups live worlds apart. Whoever the Imam chose to get His guidance received the book, all those who were not supposed to receive it will never receive it unless they pray for Imam's mercy upon them.

Re: above post of librarian-umed
On October 3rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
People have really shredded and burnt the Farman book, librarian-umed ?!! How could they have done that ?!! Hayrè... Such a beautiful book...

* Canada

unless they pray for Imam's mercy upon them
On October 3rd, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad.

Let us pray for Mowla's mercy upon all of us. We are all
murids. WE are not perfect and some of us make
drastic mistakes and some of us have the fortune
of having an easier life. We are all brothers and
sisters. And as someone said on this forum,
we should be there for eachother and help
eachother.

I am sure that MOWLA knows best and a FAIR outcome will
be the result in the end.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Gray appeals Tabib's Order
On October 2nd, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Another hint that Mowla is not behind the case and again another proof that Mr Gray and Sachedina did not want Nagib and Alnaz to meet Mowla. If it happens and I pray that it will happen, it will be the end and we'll have the answer. For Gray, it's not acceptable because his reputation is at stake and what a loss of money too...

* Canada

Discovery
On September 30th, 2010 An ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

Without doubt, both Nagib and Al Naz will soon fulfill all the conditions set by management case judge so as to enable them to pave a way for ‘the’ meeting.
Let us assume that Mr. Gray does not take any step to thwart this meeting and the meeting takes place.
I am sure that you both – Nabib and Al Naz – are very regular in your BK Bandagi as well as in performance of special prayers to confront the situation. I am equally sure that your family members are with you.
Please be assured that many like me in this group are also praying for successful outcome of this case soon. My elders use to give me following advice, and they worked for me successfully:
1. When you meet MaulaBapa, He responds to you according to how you perceive Him, what are your good wishes (નેક મુરાદ) and what guidance you seek from Him.
2. Even He meets you at a non-religious function, you should not utter a single word until and unless He specifically asks or permits you.
3. In His physical presence, continue to recite His Holy name, silently with your heart and mind in recitation.
4. Imam is Imam all the time, each day, each hour, each minute, each second and each moment, whether He is in a religious function or in a social function. Always behave with Him with that understanding.
5. He is the bearer of Noor, Noor of Allah, and hence unique.

Dear Nagib and Al Naz, I hope you must be busy preparing your self spiritually for the meeting. It may happen that Mr. Gray might ask you to question Hazar Imam. But don’t rush for it. First seek Maula’s permission. He knows every thing. Perhaps He may not give you any chance to ask and may give you advice, instructions or order.
Though He is always with you spiritually—particularly in your BK Bandagi, in his physical presence what count are: your immense love for Him, your Nek Murad, and your incessant recitation of His Holy name.
I sincerely feel if this meeting takes place, Maula Bapa will be pleased with you and your families. He might not tell you all such things in presence of non-Ismailis such as Mr. Gray and others, but His smile, His face expressions and His body language which you only can observe and feel. Remember, the unique experience of al-Muyyad fil-Din al-Shirazi during his visit to palace of Imam al-Mustansir bi Allah in Cairo. All others present there did not experience any such thing.
He is the same Maula who in His 48th Joma clearly Farmaned:” If you love us once, we love you hundred times more.” And I know you both love Maula Bapa much more than people like me.
The advice of my elders really worked for me when on one non-religious occasion I was introduced to Maula Bapa. It worked because even in that non-religious event, He was not Agakhan for me but my Muala Bapa.
I pray for your success.

Well said
On September 30th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

I received a call to log on and to read a "touching" comment. Yes it is truly touching and thanks for such a heartfelt post. True Ismailis have a built in natural inclination to encourage other Ismailis to love and worship the imam and what he stands for. Fidais have given lives for this noble cause.

I had said in one earlier post that MSMS said to consider those who stop you from reading our Farmans as our enemies. And a natural understanding of this Farman is that those who encourage love and devotion to and for the imam as you have done are true momins.

However, I am certain that the discovery will not take place, Mr. Gray told the court that he would appeal any orders allowing us discoveries and I expect him to do so. Normally such comments by lawyers are frowned upon and considered ill-advised as it is considered as someone seeking to intimidate judges.

Thanks again for your loving guidance. And Ameen to all the prayers being offered for us.

* Canada

Discovery process
On September 30th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Excellent post by "an ordinary murid". very touching.
The defendants must not be disheartened even if atty Gray thwarts the meeting which I think he will.

Remember Pir Saderdin a highly enlightened soul, had Imam's physical deedar only twice in his life time.
But he was in touch with the Imam every moment except those 6months and six days when he developed ego and did not consider Pir Hasan Kabirdin 's plea for accompanying him for deedar.

Experience his batuni presence all the time and get guidance through his Noor as you have been doing so far.
Journey may not be over as yet.stay humble and in Zikar all the time.

If Mawla is not the real plaintiff he is not obliged to meet so that is quite likely meeting may not be needed at all.

* United States

@ Alibhai Jiwani
On September 30th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Though I am not pessimist, it is highly unlikely that the meeting takes place on the 15th of October. Various steps taken by Mr. Gray at different points of time lead me to believe this. He is likely to submit a motion to relieve of the meeting.
If he is really serious to resolve the matter by 15th this is a best opportunity for him. He should advice his client Hazar Imam to schedule for 5 to 10 minutes meeting for the purpose when He is in Canada.

Tell his client!!!!
On October 2nd, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Gray would tell Mowla bapa only if Mowla bapa is his client, that is why he seems to be fighting and now appealing the order.

* Canada

Mr. Gray and discovery
On October 1st, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

The more I peruse the court documents and the more I study different tactics employed by Mr. Gray, the less chance I feel the case gets through the court even by the end of this year.
Agreed, Mr. Gray may be the best lawyer around the globe, but the courts in Canada are fair to everybody. For how long can he delay the case by different legal tactics? One more year? But what after that, the truth is going to prevail.
Granted the affidavits of expert submitted by Gray may discredit Mr. Ospreay’s findings. But then this will make the judge more suspicious as to why the plaintiff himself did not file his own affidavit/ affirmation he signed few moths back. Did plaintiff not know at the time of affirmation he signed at Boston as to what was its purpose and what could be its implication?
It’s a civil case and the defendants have every right to present their case from all angles. The Federal court, being fair, can not delay indefinitely the ‘discovery’ request of the defendants. Though Mr. Gray has the ability and resources to delay the case but not beyond the end of the next year.

Mr Ospreay is no small
On October 2nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Mr Graham Ospreay is no small forensic expert, just saying that he is not competent does not really convince a judge. There are too many weaknesses in the counter-expertise. Soon there will be the cross-examination of Gray's expert, lets see how he replies to questions by defendants.

Mr Graham Ospreay that the defendants choose is amongst the most ethical and qualified experts in Canada. Graham has been called upon to give evidence and provide expert witness testimony for both criminal and civil matters in Provincial and State Courts as well as various Arbitration & Review Board Hearings. His case work is international in scope and includes forensic examinations and testimony throughout Canada and the United States. He has provided both training & educational seminars, security and forensic investigations and opinion evidence in North and South America, Europe, United Arab Emirates, Israel, the United Kingdom, the Soviet Republic, India, Pakistan, Japan, China and South Korea.
http://www.theiia.org/chapters/index.cfm/view.event_detail/cid/8/event_i...

you should reas the 2 nd
On September 30th, 2010 salima (not verified) says:

you should read the 2 nd letter Hazer Imam sent to Mr Jiwa, " you on other hand sought to have meeting with me, which is neither necessary or possible"

This sums it up. Hazer imam will not meet Nagib& alnaz

* Canada

@Salima
On October 1st, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

The letter you mentioned is in dispute, and court has yet to rule on it, perhaps along with the main judgement.

@asif Monin, how come your
On October 1st, 2010 salima (not verified) says:

@asif Monin,

how come your views differ from UMED , He claims the letter is PROVED to be forgery, and you claim it is in dispiute, ??

* Canada

You are ill-informed. There
On September 30th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

You are ill-informed. There has never been any such correspondence from anyone before the lawsuit to Mr Jiwa. This letter you are referring to has been proved to be a forged letter. The law of Canada applies to everyone, there is no distinction. Please inform yourself properly.

Ill informed
On September 30th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

It is easy to make simple decisions, why bother to read all of the documents to come to a right decision.

* Canada

Anant Akhado - Story of a Historic Mehmani presentation
On September 30th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

Your above comment is very timely. I just came accross the following link about Anant Akhado. It details what happened when Hassan Kabirdin (not yet Pir) went to meet Imam anyways after Pir Sadardin refused to take him:

http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/30134
Extract:
"
This piece of widely accepted ismaili sacred literature gives the detailed account of a Mehmani submitted around 600 years ago in which a piece of literature was offered to the Imam of that Time (Islam Shah) in a Short Mehmani.

This piece of Literature was the Anant Akhado written by Hassan Kabirdin as an individual effort, it reiterated many fundamental tenets and beliefs of the Ismaili Faith and was presented as being a rendering of the Farmans of the Imam, it was written on the cloth of a turban, and the mehmani was offered by its author in the form of a turban, not of a mere cloth. In a few instants, the Imam accepted the Mehmani offering and gave it back to Hassan Kabirdin.

As a result, Hassan Kabirdin considered the gift returned for sharing among ismailis. It is afterwards that Hassan Kabirdin got the official title of Pir. Pir Hassan Kabirdin updated the text to include an account of the Mehmani event, and widely circulated his text. To date, there are many manuscripts showing that the work was copied and kept by ismailis in their homes, and to date, this text is preserved and recited daily in Jamatkhanas before the evening prayer.
"

Imam's expectations
On September 30th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

MSMS said, Don't see what we do, but do what we tell you to do. What did he mean by saying don't see what we do?

Today this litigation is on in his name? Is he the real plaintiff or has his name been misused? If misused why is he silent? But if he is the real plaintiff why is he not in charge of the litigation? Why has he not allowed to file his Affirmation as evidence?

If he is the real plaintiff would he not be eager to attend for discoveries to stop the defendants from distributing the Farmsns he wants stopped?

Upon reflecting, I can't help but agree with the defendants, and feel, strongly now then before, that MHI is not behind the litigation

* Canada

What's happening to this forum
On September 28th, 2010 rabya (not verified) says:

Guys, I thought that people who were participating on this forum were civilised and objectives, please stay like that. We have a main issue here which is the publication of the Farmans, and the copyright, the defendants are fighting for these. Please stick on this subject. Don't bring emotions or insults on this forum, stay clean. Thank you

* Canada

.... participating on this forum were civilised.....
On September 29th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Sister Rabya,

Ya Ali Madad.

Well said, dear Momin Sister.

At the same time, you know that the FORUM is being visited by people
around the World, with different cultures (although sharing the same faith)
and the differences are in its extreme at times.

Yes, indeed, I agree that we should all strictly stick to the issues
in question pertaining only to this case. I am sure that most of
those who participate are civilised and objective and will
implement that virtue.

It is all very sad indeed. But let us hope for the best.

We are, after all, Momin brothers and sisters, Globally
and Mowla's Murids.

May Mowla Bless us all. Amen.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

What did Presidents do?
On September 28th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Did any of the Presidents who received the 2 LIF announcements decide not to read them in their JK’s ?

When LIF sends a communication for the Jamat, the president will read, consider and seek clarification if he feels he needs to. He will then discuss with his VP and Chairs and or the relevant bodies formally and informally. Then he will do what he considers is in the best interest of the Jamat in his area. Different areas will have different considerations for different reasons.

So what happened in the case of the 2 LIF announcements when they were received by each of the Presidents. How many sought clarification from the Chairman of LIF, How many consulted their VP and Chairs of ITREB. How many did not announce in all or some or all JK’s in their areas. There are Presidents who decided not to make the announcement. I wonder if the Chairman of LIF were informed and why ? Finally what did the LIF Chairman do when he received a copy of the announcement after it was approved and sent by DR Sachedina?.

Imam set up the constitution, institutions and the institutional framework so that there are also checks and balances which Imam has time and again reminded & guided us are necessary and very important.

This case has given leaders and the Jamat an excellent opportunity to re-visit many of the ground realities highlighted by this case. The meeting in London recently was an excellent opportunity to do so and to seek guidance on them and addressing the challenges of the next decade of the global miniaturization and the creative societies.

I am sure everyone is happy that the case looks like coming to an end in the coming week or two. Mawla knows and knows best. I hope & pray that we will all learn from this experience and move forward with Imams blessings and guidance in replacing fear with love, divisions with unity, by embracing meritocracy and pluralism and making them a living part of our daily lives. Ameen

* United Kingdom

Order dated 24-SEP-2010
On September 27th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Order dated 24-SEP-2010 rendered by Mireille Tabib, Prothonotary Matter considered with personal appearance The Court's decision is with regard to Case Management Conference Result: "

1. To the extent the Plaintiff wishes to move for leave to file a responding expert affidavit in opposition to the Defendants' motion(s) for summary judgment, a motion record on motion for leave to do so shall be served and filed no later than 27-SEP-2010, and shall be made returnable at General Sittings in Ottawa, beginning at 9:30 a.m. on 30-SEP-2010, by telephone conference.

2. Responding motion records to the Plaintiff's motion for leave to file an additional affidavit shall be served and filed no later than 29-SEP-2010 at 2:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

3. If leave is granted to the Plaintiff to file a further affidavit in opposition to the Defendants' motion(s) for summary judgment, cross- examination on that affidavit shall take place during the week of 4-OCT-2010.

4. The transcript(s) of all cross-examinations conducted on all affidavits filed in the context of the parties' respective motions for summary judgment shall be filed no later than 13-OCT-2010.

5. The Judicial Administrator shall advise the parties of the earliest dates of availability for a hearing of the parties' respective motions for summary judgment, in English, preferably in Toronto but possibly in Ottawa if an earlier date is available, for a duration of 2 days, after 15-OCT-2010, bearing in mind that the parties are not available on October 19, 20, 22, 25, 27, 28 and 29, 2010 and on November 4, 6, 10 and 12, 2010 and from November 15 to December 3, 2010.

6. The Defendants shall serve on the Plaintiff their respective affidavit(s) of documents no later than 8-OCT-2010.

7. Notwithstanding that the Plaintiff has yet to serve an affidavit of documents, the Defendants have leave to serve a direction for the Plaintiff to attend to be examined on discovery at a mutually convenient date, on the following conditions: (a) Both Defendants must have served their affidavit(s) of documents prior to serving a direction to attend. (b) The direction to attend must be served at least 10 days prior to the date set out for the examination on discovery. (c) The examination on discovery must be scheduled on a date where the Plaintiff is scheduled to be in Canada on other matters, failing which the direction to attend must be accompanied by travel and attendance costs and must be served at least 30 days prior to the attendance. (d) The examination on discovery must not last more than 15 minutes. (e) The Defendants will be deemed to have waived their right to receive an affidavit of documents from the Plaintiff and to request further attendance on discovery of the Plaintiff.

8. If the Defendants do not abide by the conditions set out in the previous paragraph, the examination on discovery of the Plaintiff shall await the time at which the Plaintiff serves its affidavit of documents and shall be scheduled in the course of a case management telephone conference to be convened for "the" purpose.

9. Should the Defendants comply with the conditions set out above and serve a direction to attend on the Plaintiff, and the Plaintiff wishes to be relieved from his obligation to comply with the direction to attend, a full motion record seeking such relief shall be served and filed without delay and may be made returnable at a Special Sitting to be set by the Case Management Judge, in which case the Plaintiff shall provide all parties' joint dates of availability to participate in "such" a case management telephone conference, or at General Sittings in Ottawa on September 30, at General Sittings in Montreal on October 4, or at General Sittings in Ottawa on October 7, 2010."
Filed on 24-SEP-2010 certified copies sent to parties Transmittal Letters placed on file. entered in J. & O. Book, volume 1101 page(s) 148 - 151 Interlocutory Decision

discovery process
On September 27th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

What my gut feeling is that if indeed Hazar imam is the real plaintiff ,he will certainly meet with the defendants for 15 mins when he is in Toronto on oct 15th 2010 for the lecture.
But if he is not then we can expect a motion by Atty Grays to thwart the meeting.
In that case we are in for some more revelations!
That might really be in favor of defendants though seemingly it will appear just the opposite.
I hope Nagib and Alnaz are not missing their BK bandagi.
IF they are staunch in that practise there is a guarantee by our Pirs that they will not be hurt.

Eji koi Upay nahi hai taranko, Yeh hai taranki bari
Chot na lage us re santanko
Jamada rahya jakhmari re
wala dhanre ghadi jo din sant padhariya....

Meaning:

Even when there is no solution in sight ,
Ibadat bandagi is the "certain" way to remove the calamity
A true momin will not be hurt by even the angel of death unless permitted
blessed are those who are blessed by Mawla's grace
Ginan by Sayed Mohammadshah giving a binding promise to true momins

* United States

Alibhai jiwani
On September 28th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

I feel the same way, that if HI is not the real plaintiff, Mr. Gray would find out a way out.

What does all this legal language mean in a nutshell?
On September 27th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

From what I understood does it mean Plaintiff wants to submit one more affidavit from an expert(handwriting)?
Also is court directing that plaintiff may grant a 15 minute meeting to the defendant for discovery?
Then this could happen during the 15th oct visit to Toronto?
I am not sure whether I am understanding it right

* United States

Will the case now be settled ?
On September 27th, 2010 Murad Umed (not verified) says:

As I read it the defendants need to file their affidavit of documents before 8th Oct. After serving they can serve a direction for Hazar Imam to attend for 15 minutes.

If that happens, more motions affidavits etc are not needed and the case is closed because the defendants have said all along they need only 5 minutes. The defendants have also said all along that they are willing to meet Hazar Imam at his convenience.

Let us all hope and pray that this case is closed during the next visit of Hazar Imam to canada. Ameen

* United Arab Emirates

Expert's affidavit from Paintiff side?
On September 29th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Once the court has given directive for 15 min meeting with Hazar Imam , Is any affidavit of the expert from Plaintiff's side of any significance?
I think it is of no value .
Everything will be confirmed at the meeting
Why are any cross examination by defendants needed either?
There should be just one more step of "meeting" and that should conclude all.
May be Attny Gray was not anticipating that court could would give this order?

* United States

The Judge may have
On September 29th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The Judge may have anticipated that Gray may not be able to convince the Imam to attend a discovery for a lawsuit that he may never have initiated. And she may have also anticipated that the Imam not coming to the examination, all procedures will have to continue anyway.

The counter-expertise is of no value really and therefore the defendants have allowed to its late filing therefore they will cross-examine the expert. The counter expertise is proof that they have no access to the Imam. If the Imam was their client they would not need a counter expertise which in any case did not say that the Imam was the person that signed the forged documents.

Mr Grays's expert is merely
On September 30th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

Mr Grays's expert is merely trying to throw doubt and giving a differing opinion.

An experts job is to give his view on signatures not to research another experts expertise and give an opinion on that experts credentials or experience. Maybe in Canada this is different ?

So now the new expert when cross examined needs to also give specific information and the various court cases where he says certain qualification have been questioned and then to show that members of associations he belongs have NEVER differed and if they did, one of them was wrong. So does that then make him and all members of that association questionable and discredited as he seems to be suggesting ?

It is strange that Imam's contemporaneous original signatures were not given to Mr Gray's expert to compare to the 3 signatures in question?

If Imam does not attend, the Judge will when considering who is the real plaintiff will certainly raise an eyebrow

I hope this lawsuit will be settled in the next few weeks

* United Arab Emirates

The judge may have.
On September 29th, 2010 alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

So in that case it is even better because Hazar Imam does not have to be bothered at all.
Eventually court will decide that the case is not initiated by Hazar Imam ! Superb!
I would like that.
thanks for the reply

* United States

Alibhai jiwani
On September 27th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Indeed a very appropriate Ginan; is it by Pir Sadardin? Similar to this auspice, I came across a Farman of MSMS some years back, which is as under( not exact words).
‘Those of you who are wise and firm in their faith will see that your Deen(Tariqa) will gradually shine like a Sun.’
At present I don’t have the reference to this Farman, but once I find out the year and the place when this Farman was made, I will give that reference.
Here are some more Farmans about the Lovers of Ali by MSMS.

“A Momin and Murshid( Imam-e-Zaman) are never separate……Your home is in our heart and our home is in your hear.” (Jangbar 18-8-1905)
“If you love us one time, we love you hundred times more.”( Jangbar 2-9-1899)
“Your Deen( Tariqa) did not begin from books, but from Love”( Ishq-e-Haqiqi)( Jangbar 29-6-1899)

@Kassamali
On September 27th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Thanks for sharing extracts from Farmans made by our Beloved Sultan Mohamed Shah. Thank you.

* Canada

@Kasamali regarding Ginan Uttar Khand Mahe
On September 27th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Yes this ginan is indeed by Pir Saderdeen
final verse is beautiful aswell

eji bhanne peer sadardeen sunno gateeyu moman no,
shaah su raakho het haree-aa laa-hojire bhaai re.............15

O momins: Peer Sadardeen teaches: "Hear you momins of the congregation (jamaat),
maintain the freshness of the love and devotion for the Lord always O dear brother.

* United States

Role of M Parkes in the letter of 24 Jan 2010 to Nagib?
On September 27th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

My reply to the editor of Vancouveritte regarding the role and involvement of M Parkes in the letter of 24 January 2010 to Nagib Tajdin

There is no question that Nagib is saying that M Parkes was involved in the letter of 24 January 2010. She was. However regarding accusations of criminality, the only sentence which Mr Gray as the best lawyer in the business decided in which Nagib was making any accusation of criminality in Nagib’s letter to M Parkes “…I do not know whether you will exercise rights under Article 450-2 of the French penal code “ Nagib then respectfully goes on to invite M Parkes to explain. “but if this is the case I am willing to listen to your explanations.” (Nagib is inviting an explanation)

Nagib in the cross examination says he was only informing and warning her about the law. Nagib also confirms he sent a copy of that email to 3 others who he will not name because of potential threats and Nagib say no to the question if he knew they will distribute the email to others.

Mr Gray chose NOT to peruse this further with Nagib including the letter from M Parkes dated 28 Jan 2010. Editor suggests that Mr Gray was trying to get facts for a legal libel case by M Parkes. If that was his intention and there was anything more in the letter of Nagib which libelous, Mr Gray would have certainly pursued this further. I can think of a few specific questions he could have asked on this but then who am I to say as he is the best of the best.

It may well be that the role and involvement of M Parkes in the alleged forgery was totally innocent and that she was just doing her work and following instruction as was traditional and normal practice for her to do. Therefore she had no reason to and she did not suspect anything was unusual until Nagib informed her on 15 Feb 2010.

For example if she was normally receiving the draft letters not directly from the imam, and giving the drafts to and receiving them back from Dr Sachedina, then she was will have not been aware of any wrongdoing. The 64 million dollar question is when she knew did she personally inform the Imam of the evidence of forgery or did she report it only to Dr Sachedina and or someone else there.

Therefore the above raises more questions than give answers regarding M Parkes role and involvement in that letter. For example:

1 Did M Parkes type that letter. The bottom of the letter, and the related emails including of 28 Jan 2010 indicates she typed and or had a major involvement in the typing and sending of that letter.

2 Was that letter dictated to her by the Imam or by Dr Sachedina or someone else. If by the Imam Mr Gray could have filed a short affidavit from M Parkes which would also confirm that the Imam is the plaintiff as she will have typed & received letters to and from the lawyers

3 After typing did M Parkes give the draft typed letter back to Dr Sachedina or the Imam

4 Who gave the amended or approved draft back to M Parkes with any directions for corrections/changes

5 Who typed the final draft and who was it handed to. Remember there are other staff

6 Who handed the final approved signed document to M Parkes and did she personally then send the email.

7 Was anyone else involved besides the Imam Dr Sachedina for example Mr Manji at this stage.

8 During this drafting and sending and after until 15 Feb 2010, did M Parkes felt or suspect anything wrong or unusual ?

Therefore and to the above extent I agree to disagree with the Editor and his interpretation of the facts and the emphasis or related conclusions drawn by him.

An unrelated matter of legal interest in this case in which Imam’s entitlement to copyright is not being defended by the defendants. If someone gives guidance in a letter or speech which is then written and distributed by the individual to a group of individuals, who then go on to redistribute them amongst themselves and one or more take a lead in doing so without seeking consent from the individual who has already distributed them. Then do moral rights and or a breach of confidence can be successfully claimed and apples to that guidance or instructions or directives. Especially as this guidance is given and meant for those who have received them in the first place. Another legal issue, may be could set a legal precedent, which may come up in the legal arguments, not possibly in this lawsuit. If so the critical issue in that argument will be the precise definitions of farmans and talikas.

* United Kingdom

REPLY TO MR.BLOGLAW - RE: MS. YASMIN
On September 27th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Bloglaw September 22, 2010 - 3:29 PM - (VANCOUVERITE)

Thank you Mr. Shivji.

I am sorry I have not lived up to your expectation. You have in my view wrongly concluded I have been misguided to accept what I feel is right and that I am emotional and judgmental.
With respect we can say the same about you and everyone who is commenting and giving THEIR views as they see them. This is what you and me are doing too when sharing our thoughts.
Like parents as you put it do with children, you need to do the same for me and others and give specific and reasoned Reponses and advice/suggestions.

I also think you should explain specifically why you have concluded Yasmin is a fascist i.e. a person who is dictatorial or has extreme right-wing views. How did you come to that conclusion? Are you now not being judgmental, emotional and or saying what you fell is right and may be misguided. Maybe you owe an apology to your sister, Ms Yasmin.

REPLY IN VANCOUVERITE

YAM, MR. BLOGLAWS! Foremost, I am not a social worker and I am not an academic. I do not have any expertise in counselling others. We all are grown up people with minds of our own! Therefore, it is polite to say that we should be respectable to others.

However, when we express our thoughts and comments in high profile websites, we should detach from our sentiments, bitterness, and any kind of animosity. It does not make us small to face humbleness!

Regarding MS YASMIN, I will very kindly suggest to your good self to read very minutely all her thoughts and comments in ISMAILI.NET. Ms Yasmin has moved away from the formality of communication. Thus, giving the impressions to her readers that she is very righteous, and has a sense of right and wrong. I am not judging her and it is not my intention to rebuke her.

It is worrying to note that you have become the spokespersons for all contributors to the Ismaili.Net, including the said website. However, it is your prerogative!

When similar issue occurs, I always present my thoughts and comments in VANCOUVERITE as well as in ISMAILI.NET. Sometime Ismaili.Net is kind enough to post my comments; sometime this website will censor my comments and post whatever is suitable to the Ismaili.Net. Sometime the Ismaili.Net will ignore my comments. This in turn deduces the goodwill to this website!

Mr. Bloglaw! You are academic! You should weigh pros and cons of any issue. Just to utter something out of resentment does not simplify the problem in hand, and say something on behalf of somebody without any examination does not resolve the problem! Please do not interpret this as a tell off to you! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

There are 4 Groups on this forum as I see it....
On September 26th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

There seems to be four groups of people at present
on this particular forum.

Group1. Who hates the Leaders in general.
They just hate our Institutions & our Leaders. They
seem to lack valid reasons and most of their hatred
is built on hearing others about how bad the Leaders
and the Institutions are.

Group2. The one that supports the Defendents, and thinks
that the case is Dr. S vs Defendents.
They do not seem to be bothered to read what the Defedents
have to say. They have just joined the bandwagon of Dr. S.
haters.
They act as if they are the brains of the World and therefore
challange the wisdom of our Imam and his judgement
and his silence.
In fact they are making fools of themselves, because the
case can only be fairly heard in the Court (unless both
parties agree to setlle it out of court), taking in account
everything.

Group3. The group that is interested only in idle GOSSIP, which is the
most dangerous and write things that are completely irrelvant to this
issue. They do not care how much damage it brings to Mowla or
to the Defendents. They are just gloaters.
They just gossip along as if they are at the Hairdresser's.

The fourth Group is the serious ones, and they may soon
withdraw from contributing to this forum.
The reasons?
Well, Work it out.

SOME PEOPLE SPEAK BECAUSE THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY.
SOME PEOPLE SPEAK BECAUSE THEY MUST SAY SOMETHING.
See the difference?

I am sure some others have a different view. I respect that.

May Mowla Bless US ALL (this includes me too), and bestow
us with patience and tolerance and kindness towards
eachother.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Groups
On September 27th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Your responses are not supported by farmans Ginans or our traditions. And so it is difficult to take anyone seriously when they give their opinions without being supported by Farmans, etc.

Eg you day four groups but left out one important segment of those who can be called chamchas, those who sipport currupt leaders because he/she is part of them or wants to be appointed or does not want to be blacklisted in the fear that they will not be appointed otherwise. It seems to me that you are a member of this group.

This is a big group

* Canada

Last warning, I will be
On September 27th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Last warning, I will be deleting all postings that are personal attacks. Stick to the subject else please do not complaint that our post got deleted.

To both Umed-Moderators and Concerned......
On September 27th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Brothers/Sisters,

Ya Ali Madad.

I than Umed for being fair and the same time I with all respect to "Concerned"
would like to include the category he/she has mentioned.

I hope that then, the list is complete.

Let us all hope that we will all learn from what has been said
earlier, and I am definitley for ABSTENTION when personal
attacks are concerned.

We are all Murids of Mowla and, as such, should treat
eachother as Momin brothers and sisters.

I also understand that at times we (all) get sentimental, and
get heated up on trivial matters. We only realise that
later on when we are cooled off.
In that case, it is just to say "sorry".

If I have hurt anybody's feelings on this forum
then I apologise and say "SORRY" from the bottom
of my heart. I hope that I will be forgiven.

and

I stand for every word I have written, and take
full responsibility for that.

So, brothers and sisters, until next time....
hopefully.

Finally, My GRATITUDE to the Umed/Moderators and the
participants for bearing with me.

May Mowla Bless You All. I will always have you all in
my prayers, and I hope that I will be in yours.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Attacks...
On September 27th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Please have patience, no personal attacks are meant but a dose of reality.

* Canada

The third option is:
On September 25th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

@ librarian Umed posted on 25th sept
Court might order attorney Gray to get confimation for the court itself regarding the real plaintiff.
This could very well be an outcome of the case management conference?
Hazar Imam is going to be in Toronto on 15th oct for the 10TH ANNUAL LAFONTAINE-BALDWIN SYMPOSIUM lecture.
Something may happen during that time?

* United States

Nothing will happen on 15
On September 26th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Nothing will happen on 15 October probably because Mr Gray will not arrange any meeting nor is he keen in bringing this lawsuit to an end for reasons easy to understand.

Hazar Imam came to london
On September 25th, 2010 Interested (not verified) says:

Hazar Imam came to london recently and spoke to all the LIF Presidents and ITREB Chairs etc in a joint session.

They were all in London together for over a week and will have discussed, shared, reviewed & brain stormed key issues, goals, startegies and interventions. Maybe an update on the lawsuit was on the aganda.

I wonder if someone can share a summary of, Imam's latest guidance on this occasion and the key outcomes of the leadership.

* United Arab Emirates

Teleconference
On September 25th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

Who participated in this conference? Does court records audio recording of this? Will it be available for public viewing?

The docket says the names
On September 25th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The docket says the names [see a little below] I am sure the Court record the discussions but probably a summary is then drawn and the Order from the Case Management Judge will be issued and render public. That is my understanding but I am not a lawyer. From what I see in the docket, the order has not yet been issued.

Unfounded Fear
On September 25th, 2010 An ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

Someone expressed concern regarding discussion of the case material in this forum. He feared that this material will be used by our enemy. This fear is ill founded; and I respectfully disagree with it. What is discussed here (at Heritage site) by viewers is the case material and yes, role of persons connected with case materials, but no one used any uncivilized language nor events related to personal lives of these persons are even cursorily mentioned.
Besides this, In this forum, I have never come across any heated and wordy arguments. And no one ever, ever mentioned about Hazar Imam’s reputation let alone disrespect. On the other hand, I have observed much love for Imam of the Time in this forum. Almost in every participant I could sensed it.
In my humble opinion, the language used by the viewers in this forum is not unhealthy anyway, and hence, civilized discussion within moral boundary would not be any harmful. Healthy discussion should not be discouraged. These are my personal observations and views, and everyone has the right to differ from it.

@ Orinary Murid
On September 26th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

I am in tune with you. Almost vast number of participants here are lovers of Ali ( Imam-e-Zaman) who have tendency not to hurt anybody.
Here are some of the Farmans of MSMS related to lovers of Ali.

1. There is nothing more important than you love your Hazar Imam. Remain ecstatic in Love of Maula. ( Dar-e-Salam, 15-2-1937)
2. Religion is a matter of Love (Ishq-e-Haqiqi) ( Mumbai 3-2-1926)
3. "The most important thing is, keep your Iman strong on Ali (Imam of the time), much more than your mother, father, property and life. You will not fear in this world, if you love him…. In this Farman,all the essence and secrets of Ibadat,Bandagi, and religion are covered"(Dar-e-Salam, 3-2-1937)

@Kasamali
On September 26th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Thanks for these valuable pearls.
I came across this very meaning ful Ginan especially with seat of Imamat being established in NorthAmerica
Ottawa)
eji utar kha(n)dd maa(n)he shaah nee jot jaagevaa,
shaah naa purakh meele parketaa ho jirebhaai..................1

O momins: When the Lord's light shines in the north continent,
then complete recognition(and understanding) of the Lord is
attained O dear brother

eji jaago jaagore gur maarag chalannaa,
tame saachaa ne sachaa yaaraa ho jire bhaai...................4

O momins: Wake up, wake up (from the sleep of ignorance) and walk along
the Guide's path. Be a true friend to the True (Guide) O dear brother.

eji unnee-aachaaree kal maa(n)he ochheru chaale,
saaheb te paapee ne parharee-aa hojire bhaaire................5

O momins: The lowly (sinful) ones walk in this age imperfectly (in ignorance and sin).
The Lord will punish all such sinners O dear brother.

* United States

@An Ordinary Murid
On September 25th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Very well said. Thank You.

* Canada

CMC
On September 22nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

From Docket:

Oral directions received from the Court: Mireille Tabib, Prothonotary dated 21-SEP-2010 directing that "A case management telephone conference will take place at 10:00 a.m. on 23-SEP-2010." Parties advised by e-mail. placed on file on 21-SEP-2010

24th September, in Docket:

Ottawa 23-SEP-2010 BEFORE Mireille Tabib, Prothonotary Language: E Before the Court: Case Management Conference Result of Hearing: Order to issue held in chambers by way of Conference Call Duration per day: 23-SEP-2010 from 10:00 to 11:35 Courtroom : Judge's Chambers - Ottawa Court Registrar: Alison Dickenson Total Duration: 1 hour 35 minutes

CMC
On September 22nd, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

What happens, does the judge tomorrow make decision, will we know the result of the case tomorrow? I hope so to get closure.

* Canada

No, it is a Case Management
On September 24th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

No, it is a Case Management Conference, not a Motion or a trial so there will not be any judgement. There will be an order on the dates of events to come. A Case management Judge will always look for the most expeditious and most just way of resolving the case.

Cross Transcripts of Alnaz/Nagib
On September 22nd, 2010 yasina (not verified) says:

I have read the cross exam transcipts of Anaz & Nagib by Plaintiffs Lawyer.

Can you post them for us.

* Canada

Nagib's cross
On September 24th, 2010 shirin (not verified) says:

where are the full transcripts of Nagibs cross and the e-mail where you accuse Ms parkes of Forgery ??

* Canada

They are posted
On September 23rd, 2010 heritage says:

They are posted here:

http://www.ismaili.net/heritage/node/30355

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

@Rabya
On September 22nd, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Diwan Eboo Pirbhai was a great leader. As we all know he took care of Our Beloved Hazar Imam and Prince Amyn Mohamed during their childhood in Nairobi. I would like to share with you couple of events that took place.

Diwan Eboo Pirbhai had a chauffeur-driven car. Many times I had seen that he would not sit in the back seat, but in the front seat, next to the chauffeur. One day, I was walking along Kimathi Street, Nairobi, Diwan Eboo Pirbhai passed by in his car and waved at me, and asked his chauffeur to pull the car on the side. He asked me "Beta how are you? How are your parents? Is everything OK with you? Mowla will take care of you." I felt so touched with his humility.

It was Kenya's Annual Independence Day Celebrations. I was there to witness the occasion. Hazar Imam was in the front row with President Moi and other dignitaries. When it was over, President Moi, dignitaries and Hazar Imam were leaving. Hazar Imam stood on the side, Diwan Eboo Pirbhai came. There were stairs, so Hazar Imam helped Diwan Eboo Pirbhai, His eyes on the stairs, so that Diwan Eboo Pirbhai would not miss the step. At that moment I thought to myself, look at Hazar Imam who is so compassionate towards His Murid.

At the funeral of Diwan Eboo Pirbhai, which I attended was held at the Pavillion Hall, Aga Khan Sports Ground, Nairobi, President Moi and other dignitaries had attended the ceremony. Diwan Eboo Pirbhai's body was laid on the "saadhri" (no casket) on the ground, very simple ceremony according to our Islamic Tradition. I am sure non-muslims must have observed the simplicity of our Faith. He was buried at the old Ismaili Cemetery across the new cemetery, in Nairobi.

Diwan Eboo Pirbhai was a "Great and Humble" leader, and is also being remembered today. He was loved by Our Beloved Hazar Imam and the Noorani Family. Thank You.

* Canada

Re: above post of Yasmin
On September 24th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you ever so much for sharing these memories with us, Yasmin.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Diwan Sir Eboo
On September 22nd, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Yasmin,

Ya Ali Madad.

Thank you for sharing with us your experiences with regard to Diwan Sir Eboo.

Indeed he was a great man and will be and is missed by many.

I met him at Paris (Silver Jubilee 1983) briefly. Very humble and compassionate
person he was. No doubt about that.

After that he got in touch with me on an issue I was very unhappy about, and asked
me to forgive those who had wronged me and keep my cool. He could have scolded
the others and flared the the situation by thus fuelling it. No, he did not do that.

Instead he asked me (through his secretary - because he was not well that day)
to calm down. And I did, after giving him my reasons for getting upset.

At that time I felt that may be he was wrong, but long time after that I realised that
he acted extremely prudently. He (I suppose) knew that the others were stubborn
hot-heads and maybe he knew that they would not budge, but in me (I assume)
may be he found a reasonable person who would back off and calm down.
Therefore, he asked me to yield and calm down. And I did, although still upset.

Now, what strikes me is that he must have had enormous ability to judge people
and their character in a very short time.

At that time we sent letters by post and fax. Telephone conversations were
a luxury.

I wonder if there is a Leader in our community who can match Sir Eboo's wisdom
and power to reason and put the foot down when necessary and his humility &
unconditional loyalty to our beloved Hazar Imam.

I had great respect for Dr. S. But, I am beginning to wonder.

May Molwa Bless Sir Eboo's Soul for eternal peace.
We're all Mowla's beloved murids.

Best Wishes,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Great respect evaporating...,
On September 24th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

You wrote; I had great respect for Dr. S. But, I am beginning to wonder.

Gees you are wondering!!!!!!! What is to wonder. My imam' enemy has to be my enemy isn't it? Can there be any doubt about it, when he directly insults the Imam, when he directly and "purposively" REJECTS our imam's farmans: MHI said Ginans are unique and other farmans on the importance of Ginans; he also made a Farman on following his grandfather's farmans are two examples.

Them he says to disregard MHI's farmans made personally by him..... MSMS said Yezid cut imam's badan (body), you are cutting my imamate, . This is a written Farman of MSMS.

* Canada

Gees you are wondering!!!!!!! What is to wonder.
On September 24th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear "Concerned",

Hmmmmmmmm....

Neither you nor do I, for sure know, if Dr. S is our beloved Hazar Imam's enemy.

You have made a very strong judgement/accusation (i.e. that he is the Imam's enemy)
that I really wonde about too.

Only Mowla is the judge, and I am sure that he will act as and when he sees fit.
I trust my Imam. I have also read Hazrat Sultan Mahomed Shah's firmans
(May his Soul Rest in Peace).
(Please note that Mowlana Sultan Mahomed Shah is spellt with an a following
M).

In Poona, a Kamadia complained to Mowlana Sultan Mahomed Shah (May
His Soul Rest in Peace) that he had heard that the Hindu accountant Mowla
employed was stealing cash on daily basis. Mowla did not say anything.
The Kamadiasaheb kept on repeating this on several occassions and Mowla
did not reply.

One day, when the Kamadiasaheb and Mowla were alone and the Kamadia-
saheb mentioned it, Mowla became very angry and replied, "Tuum Gaddha
hey. Me tumaara Imaam hey aur Tumko lagta hey Ke mujko ney patta hey?
Tuum bilkuul gadha hey. Aaajsey ye baat kabhi ney karna".

The Kamadia saheb did not know what to do. And he was also very upset
because he was sure that the man was stealing.

Afterwards, Mowla explained to Kamadiasaheb that since the thief knew
that everybody knew, he stole an insignificant sum, and then he
told the Kamadiasaheb that if he put a Murid in his place and if the
Murid stole, then how would he be able to stop him. The Murid would
say it is his father's money.
LOL

Now, I heard the above about 45 years ago... from my elders....
It may have been a joke or the truth....
But, do you get it???????? LOL.

So, if Mowla is not doing anything about it, then let us wait and
see. Mowla (I am sure knows). So, take it easy and pray even for
Dr. S. As far as we are concerned, he is still a devoted Murid
until Mowla makes a statement otherwise.
If Mowla wants me to act, I will not think twice ...
I am sure Mowla will never make me carry a burden
greater than I can bear.

I hope that you will understand my explanation, but you do not have
to accept it, I hope you will.
But, I will stick to my Moral Values and faith in Mowla as they are.

May Mowla Bless You, my friend. Hey, and all others too.

Best Wishes,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Devoted murid!!!
On September 26th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

You said: Dr. S. As far as we are concerned, he is still a devoted Murid
until Mowla makes a statement otherwise.

Wow - it betrays your lack of understanding of what imam is. Have you heard or read MSMS's farmans? I think not other then in passing.

MSMS said that during Mawlana Hussein's there was one Yezid, today there are 'anek' (numerous, many) and there are here present in my presence. He made many farmans of how to id such people, bur he never pointed to our identified anyone as Yezid, but his farmans clearly indicate what to look for and urged us to remain away from those people.

You say you will follow your imam, good luck.

It sometimes amazes me (and also distresses me to see how many claim to be ismailis) when I read some posts posted here or particularly in the other site yet seem to be completely ignorant of what it is being an Ismaili.

Don't, please don't expect our imams to say such and such are the likes of Yezid. There are so many farmans of our imams saying to read our history. Without doing so people have no idea what and how imam's act, and that is why you made the above noted comment.

My brother, that ain't gonna happen. Keep waiting.......
Be

* Canada

........distresses me to see how many claim to be Ismailis
On September 26th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Brother/Sister "Concerned",

I think that you were warned by "Umed" earlier that you have got
personal. I feel that now you have stepped over the line and
I am humbly obliged to give it back to you in kind, though
hesitantly.
I really hope that "Umed-The Moderator" will allow this.

Well, go ahead. It is a business between you and Dr. S.
Dr. S. is not my relative, but to me (now that you have shown
your true self by sinking lower and lower) he is a better Ismaili
than you are.
That is my humble opinion.
But, ultimately it is Mowla who decides.
Therefore, I may abstain from commenting on what you
and your supporters have to say.

I am going to post a separate post - which I hope that the
moderators will allow to explain about the categories that
I feel, are on this forum.

I have no more to say. I am in open and and am not
using any pseudonym. I have nothing to hide.
I am a humble Murid of Mowla and neither you or your
supporters can take it away (thank Mowla) from me.
I will defend myself, should you and your supporters
decide to attack me in any way.

It is the likes of you that fuel gossip and heresay and cause
distress to Our Imam and his true Murids. I hope you will
shape up.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Supporters
On September 27th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

What supporters are you talking about. I write on my own behalf and my own thoughts, why would you respond by saying my supporters!!!!

If you can't determine this simple matter how can you analyze difficult and complicated issues.

* Canada

Alaudin Alibhai's above post
On September 25th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Brother Alaudin, is it not customary for true Ismailis to offer a salwaat, or at the very least (a.s.) after the name of an Imam, rather than the formula you have used in brackets every time you used the name of the 48th Imam in your post????
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Lets not get into personal
On September 26th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Lets not get into personal attacks

Re: above post of librarian-umed
On September 28th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
My sincere apologies if I have gone against the rules of this forum. I did not think I was breaking any rules, my question was just an honest question stemming from astonishment.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Is it not customary for true Ismailis to offer a salwaat
On September 26th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Only Mowla decides if I am a true Ismaili or not.

We wil all be judged on the day of judgement. Even the sefl-appointed
champions in this forum.

Otherwise, I agree with you. But, equally, they can also be omitted
from what I understand depending the media.
It is customary, not compulsary either - from what I understand.
It depends also on what forum you mention our Holy Imams
The Pirs and The Holy Prophet.

But, I do agree with you in principle.

However, I humbly thank you for drawing my attention to it.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Re: Alaudin Alibhai's above post
On September 28th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for not minding my question, brother Alaudin. I am most happy that we both agree in principle.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

I thank you, Brother
On September 28th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Abdullasaheb,

Ya Ali Madad.

It is only right thing for me to do, i.e. to Thank you, for
pointing out my shortcoming on the matter.

I was very glad that you accepted my explanation with
grace, and did not hit back rudely like many on this
forum do. The think that they are the only ones that
have the monopoly of being right. They consider
themselves above even Hazar Imam and predict
frequently why Mowla is doing this or not doing that
and speculate wildly, and desperately twist everything
selectively to justify their stories regardless of whether
they are right or wrong.
Expecting us to believe blindly everything they write
here to be GOD's truth..

If we beg to differ, they declare us outright enemies.
I am glad that you are different, Sir.

It is always a pleasure to deal with a calm and sensible
person like you, Sir. You seem to be a person of great
integrity and you surely deserve to be saluted.

May Mowla Bless You and the Moderators here for
their patience and hard work & bearing with me.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Imam's enemy
On September 24th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

I beg to differ. I'd rather rely on my imam's defination of his enemy. He EXPECTS us to be able to ID who are his friends and who are his enemies, no question about that. Remember Allah told Noah that his own son who shunned truth is not to be considered 'family' and similar things have been said by Imams, eg. Krishna telling Arjun.

Mawla said that those who stop you from READING (note, not hear as in JK) my farmans are my enemies. See kalame imame mubeen (of course Shafik says, if you follow him over the imam) that those farmans are no longer valid.

I'd rather follow my imam and not others. You can consider the likes of Yezid friend, I consider them foes and that is because our imam has said use intellect. He has directly insulted the imam by contradicting and challenging the imam's Farman. You can continue to call such a person devoted but Mawla does not. I think I read somewhere that Mawla said those who don't follow my guidance lose the right to be part of the jamat. Ameen. I will nor consider anyone who challenges and refuses to follow the imam and Shafik has said s lot worse.

Some of your comments are good, some suspect, but each for his own. Each uses his intellect but many enemies of the imam have caused damage to the jamat when the jamat considered such enemies devoted.

So be it.

* Canada

Some of your comments are good, some suspect .....
On September 26th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Brother/Sister "Concerned",

You are entitled to differ.

You are totally out of order when you say that I may(can) consider Likes of Yezid
as friends. You slander me by that and I really challenge you as far as my
loyalty to My Imam is concerned. So, I beg you to contain yourself
before throwing such accusations by coming up with unfounded
allegations.

I agree that you are very angry with Dr.S., for many
reasons. But, also consider this:
"He was very (according to some) nervous when he gave the affidavit...
this may have caused him to fumble and given answers in a way
that they could be interpreted by "a layman like you and I" in
many different ways (and some ways) to incriminate him".

Moreover, "Have you yourself heard Dr. S. saying negative things
about Mowla? Or, is it so that you have also heard rumours like
I have. That Dr. S. is arrogant doesn't not make him a criminal.
I totally agree that he is arrogant, out of experience".
But, I do not believe, for now until Mowla has said it or made it
known in any other way, that Dr. S. is an enemy of our beloved
Hazar Imam.
Until Mowla makes a statement on what he is, I am staying
put. So please do not say that I call the likes of Yezid
friends. It is not fair and it is an outright insult. I have
not insulted you and I do not deserve to be insulted
by you or anyone on this forum or elsewhere.
You are totally out of order, Sir.

I do not believe that there is anything "suspect" in what I
have written so far.
"Please let me know what is suspicious (or suspect for that
matter in what I write) and I shall try to address it. I promise".
Spell it out.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Dr S. was nervous?(as per Mr Alaudin)
On September 27th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

If Hazar Imam is indeed the real plaintiff and Dr Sachedina was giving affidavit in favor of Hazar Imam he was in the most privileged and confident position . Lord is on your side! What do you have to worry or lose? And also you have the entire team of lawyers , best of best that money can buy , What do you have to be nervous about ?
On the other hand Nagib , is a real momin he had no lawyer and he is a defendant against presumably Hazar Imam Who is the Lord of both the worlds as per our belief. He had every reason to be nervous or panicky and he was not. Instead he was so confident, straightforward and unhesitant in his answers (May be he believed Mawla is sitting next to him in Lawyer's chair I think)
I wonder why such a radical difference otherwise?
Does this explain the fumbling ?

* United States

Why nervous...
On September 27th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Excellent, well said. Nagib not even being a lawyer did a fantastic job and your saying that he believed MHI sitting with him is really touching, you have such a wonderful sense of spirituality.

And Dt.'s answers seem to suggest he is completely cut off from MHI, his answers actually proved this point which was my first ptession,

I wish we could see their videos of the session.

* Canada

Not angry
On September 26th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Whether I heard Dr. say it personally or not is not the issue, if I am not mistaken Dr.'s words were transcribed as he said it and I have not heard him or his lawyer anywhere (eg. in any letter sent to the court) say that the transcripts posted on this site are wrong.

Wow!! You seem to say that I am angry with Dr. I am not. You seem to say that Dr. was nervous, but being nervous is the reason he said what he did.

I doubt that whenever you are nervous or stressed you will insult your mum such as say she is a pro, etc. Nor do people do that.

You are, in my humble opinion, not correct. Our imams and pirs have told us to make friends of momins (deen daar) and we are told to keep away from satanic people.

What people do and say is important. Say I don't say my dua, don't attend JK, don't pay dasond, and smoke and drink openly and influence your children and tell them now and then these are irrelevant things. IF you are Imani, truly Imani you would keep your children away from me, would you not.

Will you agree that our imam would want you to keep away and keep your children away from such an individual, even if that person was your brother?

Now reading your post, I can't help but come to conclusions that many people don't use their intellect in religious matter even while paying lip service to that phrase I am an Ismaili and a momin.

I repeat - those who cannot truly understand the gravity of what Dr.'s words means don't know anything of their religion and particularly know nothing of what our Ginans preach and what our MSMS has said in his farmans.

Reading posts always displays a persons knowledge and depth of iman, or lack of it.

Do you know that Abu Bakr was very very close to the prophet, very close. The prophet during his last few weeks of illness held his arms whole walking to the mosque, and while saying the Namaz, and when he could not continue the Namaz, Abu Bakr completed it for the prophet. Many people saw this as proof of Abu Bakr''s being special and held his hands Ignoring the Farman re: Hazrat Aly.

MSMS has said, don't see what "I do" but do what I tell you to do. Those well meaning people followed Abu Bakr and left Aly.

So dear brothers and sisters it is time we decide - whom to back!! the lovers of our imam!!!!!! And our words and action speaks volumes. I was truly influenced by reading the transcripts and before that I was wondering if these two defendants were even Ismailis and now after reading the transcripts I now have decided to reject those who insult the imam and what stands for.

Thank you, but no thanks. I urge those who wish to become more knowledgeable to read MSMS's farmans.

* Canada

Leadeship
On September 22nd, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Although Sir Eboo asked you to calm down, in my humble opinion that is a wrong way to deal with leaders who do wrong. In Toronto I was asked to set up JK for leaders meeting after JK. I was present along with other vols and a tape was played to the leaders.

I heard MHI use the words, "chuck them out" referring to those who don't act in the jamat's interests. I tried to get a copy of the tape was refused.

I have read other Talikas sent by MHI where he has said to remove those who don't act properly and to delegate duties to avoid volunteer burn downs....

Current leaders mostly do not know of guidance by MHI, and who cares is the attitude shown by most.

* Canada

Concerned's above post
On September 25th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Dear brother Concerned,
Your above post is so interesting! Thank you for sharing it with us.
Would you by any chance remember in what year you had heard those words of Hazer Imam, and whether those words had been spoken by Him in that year that you heard the tape?
Forgive me for imposing on you in this way. I am looking forward to your reply.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Tape
On September 26th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

I think this was around 1984??? Give take two years... I heard the words 'chuck them out' ...after Silver Jubilee but before 1987.... The tape was sent along with other guidance for leaders. In Dubai in 2003, MHI said in Farmsn that knowledge has been lost some purposely, including Farmans..... What dud he mean and who loses the guidance purposely?????

* Canada

Re: above post of Concerned
On September 29th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thanks a million, brother Concerned, for replying to my question and giving me the above information: I am most grateful to you. Mowla tamnè sukhi raakhè, ameen.
I really enjoy reading your posts, you are always to the point and you always speak your mind. I adored the one that starts with "Geeees!...." Thank you for your inputs. I am looking forward to reading more of your posts.
Ya Aly madad.

P.S. Re: reading Mowlana Sultan Mohammed Shah's faramin: I don't think many would read them, firstly because I am not sure that they are still available, secondly, so few of the young and middle aged Ismailis can read Gujarati...

* Canada

CORRECTION....Way to deal with leaders who do wrong
On September 24th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad.

I wrote:

I thank you for your comment and do understand fully what you mean.
I, even today, feel that I got the short end of the stick and....

Kindly read:
I thank you for your comment and do understand fully what you mean.
I, even today, feel that I WAS at the RECEIVING end of the stick
DURING THAT PERIOD all along and...........................

My apologies for the error, earlier.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Concerned's above post
On September 24th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
THANK YOU so much for sharing this with us, Concerned. I really appreciate.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Concerned
On September 23rd, 2010 Nick (not verified) says:

Mowla Knows the Best and when he say's; " Chuk Them Out" it means he is really concerned about the Leadership who are not working in the interest of Jamat.

My answer to, "Way to deal with leaders who do wrong..."
On September 23rd, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear (Concerned) Sir/Madam,

Ya Ali Madad.

I thank you for your comment and do understand fully what you mean.
I, even today, feel that I got the short end of the stick and I accepted
it partly out of respect for then Divansaheb and also I knew that
those I was facing were very powerful bunch while I did not
have the resources they had (in every sense) to pursue
the matter. They lied too. Liars are very dangerous.
More dangerous than a hungry LION about to
attack you.
Their retaliation would have done me much more and
even long lasting damage than it has so far.
I have learnt to live with it, but it does nag
me now and again.

With all due respect to what you say, I promise you
that I am totally convinced that both Divansaheb, Sir
Eboo and I acted as we shoud have.
As I said, I did have chance to have my say, and also
I was no more forced to make an apology to someone
who (in fact was at fault and) had the audacity to
demand it.
So, I got out of the row with my own dignity intact, and
a lot wiser - never to trust anyone of those (and the
likes of those again).
Since then I have made many more mistakes
and trusted many in te name of our beloved
Hazar Imam and have been betrayed
again and again....
Well, that's life of an Ismaili in a nutshell. Isn't it?
And now i am OLD, and hopefully wiser.
There is no fool like an OLD FOOL, as they say.

We are a small people.
What can we really do against powerful Leaders?
Moreover, it is indeed their strength and power that
make things happen and service to Mowla and
the Jamaat is done.
If on the way they make mistakes, well then,
we must try to forgive them and also see the
good they are doing for the community and
Mowla.
Of course, I do feel that I personally could have done
better than many of them and the impact would have
been more fruitful for the community at large where
I was at that time. But, it is past, and what one must
do from history is to learn from it and not repeat the
bad that happened in the past.

I don't want to hang out our dirty Laundry
with specifics etc... out for the World to gloat at.

We must be able to reason by way of verbal
communications, negotiate and solve
problems amicably without using violence.
That is very important.
That is what we human beings are all about. We, as
Mowla says, have to use our AKKAL to see wrong from
right. But, on our journey, we are bound to make many
mistakes (I have made many), so we are all in the same
boat. I hope that when my time comes, then my soul
will go to a better place and will be one with the NOOR.
Don't we all strive for that?
Because, my dear friend, this LIFE is some
MERRY-GO-ROUND and a very BUMPY
one, EH!

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Leadership's answerability
On September 24th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Mawla in 1992 repeatedly URGED the jamats to SEEK competence, accountability and answerabilty of our institution leaders. They are powerful but when we become intimidated of them they collectively win and MHI and the jamats lose.

Hazrat Ali said in the eyes of god, the operessor and oppressee are same if the oppressee does not fight back.

Our imams rarely fight and remove bad leaders. One much was terrible, Mawlana Sultan Mohamed told the Kamadia, trouble and annoy (sataao) the mukhi so much that refunds and leaves. In one written document that I have, He said for elder leaders to leave their seats to allow younger jamats to tale over leadership or else they will revolt, then said, those who seek to cling to their positions I pray that they die early. Why i ask he himself did not remove them but said this.

He expects the jamat to fight back. MHI said in one Farman that he knows which members serve when he is not physically present but they do not have courage to PUSH forward to serve when he is physically present. He expects us to push forward, what does that mean?

* Canada

Concerned's above post
On September 25th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for this post too, Concerned (and the corrections :-)! Particularly for Hazrat Aly's quote; it certainly deserves much pondering...I suppose the fighting back should be done in a "fair", "ethical", courteous manner.
Earlier on (when the cross-examination transcripts were posted) I was asking on this page if there was nothing we, the Jamat, could do in this affair...Someone replied to me that we just had to remain calm...I wonder if that is sufficient...
But thanks, Concerned.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Responses
On September 26th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

As you, I was keeping quiet thinking that let them fight the case and we will get the answers. Now I feel more and more so that keeping quiet is wrong when Mawla urged us to seek accountability, so he expects us to do his fight. For him and for the jamat.

One way is by posting comments, I am also asking mukhis and other leaders for answers and am realizing that so many of our leaders including mukhis have similar thoughts of our imam as Dr. has. Truly shocking and depressing.

I heard the defendant Alnaz talking to some people at don mills JK to expect that as many as 2/3 of our jamats will be discarded by our imam just as previous imams have dumped the jamats. It is food for thought. He quoted a Farman of MSMS to support his argument (I missed the Farman as i was at jk for Samar and missed a part of the talk. I only knew afterwards that he was the defendant himself. I was taken aback, but got thinking of his words. I am seeking the Farman he quoted, and said it was a written Farman.

Can anyone post that Farman for all of us to read and interpret it ourselves?

* Canada

Corrections
On September 24th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Oops I often write from iPhone and sometimes it thinks it is smarter than me and corrects words automatically and sometimes I goof.

Sorry for the goofs now and then .....

Third paragraph above should read:

One mukhi was terrible......

... mukhi so much that he resigns ....

* Canada

Quick Settlement of Case.
On September 20th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

There are two ways to settle this case outside the court.
First One:
Mr. Gray, during his cross examination and otherwise, always maintained that he has direct contact with Hazar Imam for the case. Then he should readily accept, without any further delay, the ‘Discovery’ request of defendants made to the court. Here, the officer appointed by the court goes to Paris and personally verifies that, in fact, Hazar Imam has initiated this case; and the matter is over, as defendants have to accept all the demands of the plaintiff.
Second One:
Dr. Sachedina or the LIF chairman or both approach Hazar Imam and request Him to set up a couple of minutes meeting with Nagib. And both the defendants have no other way but to accept all the demands of the plaintiff.

Conclusion: Mr. Gray, obviously to protect his personal financial interest, would not act, and hence, the first option is out.
So only, the second option remains. Let us see if our top leaders take any initiative. Only time will tell.

The third option is that the
On September 25th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The third option is that the Court will [order Mr Gray to arrange this 5 minutes meeting that will save time and resources to all parties. Mr Gray will not be able to arrange any meeting and if he does, the Imam will confirm that the defendants are right. If he does not arrange this meeting or try to escape the order with appeal or any other games, everyone will understand that the Imam is not involved in this lawsuit.

My reply to, "September 20th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified)" -
On September 21st, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Sir,

I am forced to comment.

Mr. Gray will do what Mowla instructs him to do.

Please, wait for the truth that Mowla will soon bestow upon us. Until then, I pray that all the gossipers, speculators and those "Happy to See Mowla's reputation and His Institutions go in tatters" will contain themselves.

Please, I beg you all. Contain yourselves.
You have caused enough damage by speculating and playing judges, and lawyers and knowitalls and also using slander one way or the other etc. Some of you have shown outright disrespect for Mowla. Shape up. Back OFF.
Yes, I feel anger in me (I know it is not right to be angry - but I am now).

Just calm down and wait until the Court has made a judgement and a verdict has been delivered. ONLY MOWLA KNOWS BEST. I am sure Mr. Tajdin and Mr. Jiwa will agree, them being Murids too.

Stop throwing our dirty laundry to the enemies.
When will you understand?

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden.

* Sweden

Interesting but there is not
On September 20th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Interesting, but there is not an iota of evidence so far that Mr Gray has been asked by the Imam to initiate this lawsuit and when the Imam meet the defendant, the Imam Himself will confirm the truth. Mr Gray appears therefore not in a hurry to let the defendants get instructions from the Imam as this will bring the case to an abrupt end.

A conundrum
On September 21st, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

After a lawsuit is filed by Mr Gray or any lawyer and then he sees the defence that his client is not the plaintiff then legally and as a lawyer is he not obliged to take instructions direct from his client ?

And if his client says he did not give instruction to file, then would the lawyer and the client not be obliged to make a disclosure to the court and withdraw the case.

Would this not be the same even if the lawyer had relied on any delegated authority (which is not claimed in this case) ?.

After filing, even if the lawyer had authority or instructions direct from his client to continue. Are not he and his client obliged to make a disclosure and withdraw the case and then either file a fresh new case or seek consent from the court and the defendants to continue?

A legal conundrum ! Can someone explain ?. Whilst the legal arguments maybe interesting.

* United Arab Emirates

We all need to be patient & objective in seeking to understand!
On September 20th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

EDITOR OF VANCOUVERITE TO BLOGLAW “Get real Bloglaw. Get your head checked out. People choke up when they read your postings. The case is over. You know it. Alnaz can’t go to trial holding a bag of crap

“ Follower says , “..nagib claims getting clear guidance from the 1992 mehmani. The interesting thing however, is that his letter on January 4, 2010 to the Imam is seeking guidance about the publication. What was the purpose of RESEEKING guidance if he already had it? “

MY REPLY TO THE EDITOR You seem to be privy to information which I am not when you say that the case is over & I know it.

Nagib’s letter of 4th Jan is not asking for permission for a second time. It says they are seeking guidance on the project and further guidance on other books of farmans of earlier Imams.

If they were seeking permission they would then send a draft of the Book to the Imam and seek permission to publish. Not send the book and the schedule of the project. Mr Bhaloo and Sachedina have agreed they received the draft of the 4th volume in 1998.

Mr Gray must be clear on this. If not then there is no doubt he would have questioned Tajdin specifically and very closely in the cross examination about what Tajdin meant precisely in his letter to the Imam

Regarding the Editor wanting me to check out my head, get real, people are choking up and Alnaz carrying a bag of crap (Editor meant bag with no evidence). I request him to correct me where I am wrong and share the wisdom from his 30 years of knowledge and experience with reasoned facts so that I can understand. I mean this most sincerely

This reminds me of my children asking difficult questions regarding beliefs and initially I was impatient and sometimes raised my voice expecting them to believe and trust me blindly. I soon realised times have changed in the last few decades

- Like me, my children also only ask to learn and to understand using their own intellect. But unlike me, they speak up and remind me that raising my voice or getting angry means I do not know or that I have lost the argument?
- Many times our children of course deliberately test our patience, our boundaries and knowledge on many matters.
- The key I find is being patient in seeking to understand and to share honestly, fairly and objectively.

The Editor of Vancouverite: I hope will agree with me on this. Imam stresses that conflicts today arise from a clash of understanding and ignorance’s which can and must be addressed with more knowledge, tolerance, understanding and most important dialogue. Imam wishes us all the embrace and promote pluralism and ecumenism and make it a part of our daily lives and beings.

* United Kingdom

@Bloglaw
On September 20th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Just wanted to add to my posting that, my advice to you and others who are not comfortable with the site mentioned in your posting is, not to contribute on such sites and have peace. Enjoy the "Great Heritage Site", where you can get some good information and knowledge, and you can also share your views, etc. Stay away from places where there is always turmoils, and also where you cannot get "peace". Life is too short, there is no point in wasting one's energy in such places. Thank you.

* Canada

@Yasmin @Bloglaw
On September 21st, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

Credit must be given to the Editor for posting comments of Bloglaw for everyone to read. Some who read will be leaders. In that sense we must thank both the Editor and Bloglaw.

Many may find some of today's language and expressions used offensive depending on the countries. Get real means I don't agree with you. You need your head examining means I don't agree what you are saying is logical and does not make sense to me. People choke up means people are overwhelmed by emotional. Times have changed ! Look at some of the social media expressions of today.

Therefore I think both Bloglaw and the Editor are in their own way contributing to this unique and unprecedented discussion on issues highlighted in this case.

* United Arab Emirates

@Pirani
On September 21st, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Thanks for your above comments. It's interesting to know that journalism has a "different english vocabulary language". It sounds very "professional". Thank You.

* Canada

@Yasmin @Bloglaw
On September 21st, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

:) To some and it seems to the Editor this case maybe is very personal and or emotional. Therefore in this case his reporting and response language norms may have been the casualty.

* United Arab Emirates

Mr Shivji - Is he unreasonable or what !
On September 22nd, 2010 Pirani (not verified) says:

How unreasonable is Mr Shiji?

Nizar Ali K. Shivji September 21, 2010 - 12:26 PM

YAM, MR. BLOGLAW and MS YASMIN! It is very easy for you both to point fingers, and use the religious conviction to strike god-fearing persons on they emotion or on they conscience. Apparently, I do not see any kind of “hatred and anger” in thoughts and comments expressed in VANCOUVERITE. Please do not use religion to meet your ends.

We are all human being and we do have our failings. When we are able to recognize sincerely our failings, we can gradually move away from repeating our extreme dislike and antagonism. I disagree with you that the life is short. How did you foresee that? The life is measured by years and it will continue living until its endowed years have expired.

Yasmin! Please do not shelter yourself in your cocoon and express your fascist thoughts and comments from your safe home – the Ismiali.Net. It does not behoove you to forbid and suppress disagreement. Please face the situation and analyze the issue! The truth will prevail!

I am sad to read that your religious belief does not accept the broad spectrum of Islam, but have narrowed down to what you deem to be the truth! The Ismaili Muslims have enjoyed IMAM-MURID relationship, and will continue with this relationship throughout the eternity.

Our prayers, wherever we recite from, are for the humanity and betterment of the mankind. We do not separate out in our prayers. We all want to live in peace and harmony. Allah is gracious and merciful to all! Even if you become judgmental, Allah is all forgiving!

Mr. Bloglaw! You are a scholar, and your intellectual appeared to have been misguided to accept only what you feel is right! Please use your resources to analyze the issue and saddle on reality. This is the only way to have a clear focus on pertaining issue. You have become emotional and judgmental which I did not expect from you!

Please be reminded, some us have enjoyed parenthood and our children‘s questioning is always challenging but the burden is on us to streamline their thoughts and understanding so that they do not repeat the same mistake! Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

Reply by bloglaw September 22, 2010 - 3:29 PM

Thank you Mr Shivjee.

I am sorry I have not lived up to your expectation. You have in my view wrongly concluded I have been misguided to accept what I feel is right and that I am emotional and judgemental.

With respect we can say the same about you and everyone who is commenting and giving THEIR views as they see them. This is what you and me are doing too when sharing our thoughts.

Like parents as you put it do with children, you need to do the same for me and others and give specific and reasoned reponses and advice or suggestions. (NOT MERELY ACADEMIC GENERALISATIONS)

I also think you should explain specifically why you have concluded Yasmin is a fascist i.e a person who is dictatorial or has extreme right-wing views. How did you come to that conclusion ?. Are you now not being judgemental, emotional and misguided by saying what you fell is right ? Maybe you owe an apology to your sister, Ms Yasmin

* United Arab Emirates

@Pirani
On September 23rd, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Thanks for sharing the above comments. Mr. Bloglaw, thanks for your kind words. Let us pray for the Murids mentioned, May Allah give them peace and happiness, Ameen. Thank You.

* Canada

@Bloglaw
On September 20th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

It's so sad to read that Ismaili brothers including the editor of vancourite using such slander language at another Ismaili brother, there is so much "hatred and anger" which is "unislamic". We all are Murids of our Beloved Hazar Imam, if He reads all this, He would be so sad, so sad. I always believe that there is no point in going to Jamat Khana and pray, when you don't love your spiritual brothers and sisters, because Allah knows your "intentions". As I have mentioned in my previous posting that this is a discussion on the lawsuit and what improvements should be made by the leaders. This is just a discussion, nobody is attacking these leaders personally. These above Murids get carried away. The defendants, you and we all love our Beloved Hazar Imam. No one has a right to judge any one else except Allah. I think we all should pray to Allah for these Murids to have "peace and happiness". Ameen. Thank You.

* Canada

Re: above post of Yasmin
On September 21st, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, Yasmin, it is terribly sad...We Ismailis don't seem to do well when put to test: some of us have shown such little compassion and respect for fellow brothers in faith in this law suit matter...Mowla badhanè haqiqati samaj anè sabar aapè.
Ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

What are the priorities
On September 20th, 2010 Momeen (not verified) says:

I did not know what programs have been initiated regarding the three GJ goals directed by the Imam, especially the poor and the elderly members of our jamat . These are not on the official websites or in announcements? Can anyone share these ? May be these will be in the next LIF announcent soon?

* United Arab Emirates

An Ernest Open Request to LIF Chairman
On September 20th, 2010 Another Ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

Dear Sir:
I am also an ordinary Murid with ordinary intelligence, but I understand and believe that this case has already taken enough toll of Jamat and damaged Jamat’s image outside.
Even within the Jamat, there are people like me who firmly believe words of Dr. Sachedina, Mr. Bhaloo and Mr. Manji. Such people are in majority, but there are still many who doubt our these leaders, and then there are some few who are confused. I have come across many people who are dead against Nagib and Al Naz; they hate them and are using sarcastic and uncivilized language against them and their families.
Sir, the case might go on for one more year and I don’t know where such confusion and hateredness will lead the Jamat to. Only very senior leaders like you can do something about this. You have vast experience and knowledge as ell as easy access to Hazar Imam, and hence I appeal to you; please do something so that this case gets settled outside the court. I don’t know why Dr. Sachedina has not contacted Hazar Imam after case has been filed by Mr. Gray. Perhaps he felt offended of forgery allegation by the defendants, or that he by himself might not have felt comfortable to talk and make a request to Hazar Imam in this respect.
May be you two together or your own can work out some solution. If such efforts are made the entire global Jamat would remain grateful to you.

An Open Request to Dr. Saheb
On September 18th, 2010 An ordinary Murid (not verified) says:

I am ordinary Murid with very or little knowledge, but have something to request you. People like me are likely to agree with your and Mr. Gray’s versions that it is Hazar Imam (HI) himself wrote letters to Mr. Tajdin to stop, and that HI was sad and angry with the defendants. But Dr. Saheb, you are the senior most leader of Ismaili Jamat all over the world. I am sure, it is possible for you to pacify HI and seek his forgiveness to these two and, more importantly, at the same time request HI to grant these two defendants a couple of minutes meeting. Dr. Saheb, your position is such that HI is unlikely to turn down your request. Outwardly, HI may seem sad but inwardly, he would be happy, for one of his leaders requesting him to pardon guilt of other two Murids and thereby want to save them from a great sin of Nafarmani.

Again, once you are able to schedule such a meeting at Paris, make it clear to defendants that all the expenses are to be borne by them and not a single penny will be provided to them for the meeting. This way, the defendants will become defenseless and the purpose of stopping them would be achieved.

Sir, do not rely on Mr. Gray’s efforts only, who being a professional and non-ismaili, will have his interest in making as much money as possible by complicating and lengthening the case. He will never give practical and workable solution with least expenses. This is the case with almost every lawyer.

Sir, it is not yet too late. Please try at least once and not only HI will be happy but entire Jamat of the world would be grateful to you and would applaud your efforts.

Hazar Imam is RahemRahimi and just.
On September 20th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

I truly believe Hazar Imam is Omniscient and Omnipresent.
He is going to let this case play out in a normal fashion.

Any settlement will be very negative to Imamat.Because it will still say that Imam sued his 2 murids
It is best for Imamat and the 2 defendants and Jamat if the Federal court of Canada proves that case was NOT initiated by Hazar Imam.
Any kind of internal settlement will still leave in history a mark that Imam sued a murid!
I am sure that is not a desirable history.
Also Nagib and Alnaz will have to live with all the bad names and disrespect. all their lives and how will they feel that Mawla is Just?

If any one has indeed done a forgery don't you think Hazar Imam would want that person to get what he deserves?
Any quick closure on his part will only indicate he is covering up the people even if they are wrong .
This is not acceptable either.
The best and the wisest step is let the case go its normal course and let court prove what is the truth.
In the physical realm Mawla does not have to move a finger.( in Batuni realm he is the main player)
Let everyone get their justice.
To have a close door settlement at this juncture would leave too many murids more disturbed and confused.

"Tara bandane tu hi tare
To nam rahe Ilahi"
Ali anant anant ya ali anant tu hi jane"

"You are the saviour for your believers.
Since you are divine and it is your duty
O ali you and only you know the end and the eternal truth"

If there is a case of forgery the person will get what he deserves.
I pray Mawla gives enough strength to his True Momins to continue bravely and patiently.
"Mali re sinche so gana
Rutu vina phal na hoye"

Even if gardener waters the plant hundred times a day the fruits will not appear on the plant unless the season is right.

We all have to be patient ,judgement will come in its own time.

* United States

DR Sachedina
On September 19th, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

Dr Sachedina is a very arrogant person, he can fire people, and it happened in Aiglemont that he did fire a person, nobody understood why he fired him, because he was a hard worker. But Mr Sachedina describes himself as the Insitution. The late Diwan Sir Eboo was so humble and humble, and this man is completely the opposite. Mowla knows the ''bedd'' of it. We can just pray the Mowla gives him a little ''Sabudi''. My mother uses to say that you people are educated but you don't know how to count, come here and I'll teach you how to do it, (translation of katchi bayra par gayra nahi).

* Canada

@ Mr Moez Nato
On September 19th, 2010 Rabya (not verified) says:

Very well said, we agree completely, well diversity is strength even in languages.

* Canada

Dr. Sachedina
On September 18th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Have you read Dr.'s transcripts? I don't think the jamat can or even should expect Dr. to act in our interests when he has so grossly insulted our Imam by saying that the Farmans made by the Imam in person are not farmans, and has openly defied the Imam (and insulted our Pirs) by saying bad things about our Ginans, and says we are not to follow our 48th Imsm's farmans.

* Canada

Institutional Work on Farmans
On September 17th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

In the cross-examinations, Mr Sachedina says that the matter was raised in 1998, and the Imam asked him to prepare and submit the material:

"A. And now it's being looked at. Because I -- so that you should be aware, I had raised this matter with Hazar Imam of the Time of my meetings with Nagib at that time about this whole issue, that we will need to make sure that there's a publication available.
Q. Did he give you an approval at that time? Did you ask him for approval at that time?
A. No, he had said that -- we are very, very clear on this matter, that whatever it is you prepare, submit, and then we will make a decision once I have reviewed the material." http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/30365

So what work was done to prepare and submit the material in 12 years?
Was this included in the 5-year plan of any institution?

In the cross-examinations, we see that contrary to their affidavits, Sachedina and Bhaloo did not make a special trip to tell Nagib to stop Farman publication, but instead, as in N. Tajdin's affidavit, they came in the context of a Focus program, and in this meeting, they offered to cooperate and picked up the draft of the 4th Kalam-e Imam-e Zaman book.

This could have been the perfect occasion to submit a draft to the Imam. However, Mr Bhaloo's cross-examination shows that they never took the draft to the Imam, and that the draft stayed in Bhaloo's home. http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/30395

How can we trust that any work will now be done by the institutions to submit a draft to the Imam? Has this work been included in anyone's yearly goals?

* Canada

For 12 years Imam has been
On September 18th, 2010 valimmohammed (not verified) says:

For 12 years Imam has been waiting for the draft of a farman book from the Institution for publication for him to approve and sign off for publication.

During the GJ one of the goals agreed was to publish a volume of ALL Speeches and a volume of ALL Farmans including the GJ Farmans.(" During the Golden Jubilee when we -- leaders of the jamat periodically meet Hazar Imam, and there were meetings with Hazar Imam about what will be the outputs that we will do before the Jubilee, during the Jubilee, and the post-Jubilee. And the farmans would be the compilation also of -- all the farmans of the Golden Jubilee would be included in this. So this was something that came out of the Golden Jubilee")

However this approval and the Farman book publication plan is not on any of the 5 years objectives or operating plans of IIS, DJI or ITREB ?? Right ?

* United Arab Emirates

Was Imam told the truth, and the whole truth!
On September 16th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

I am sure everyone will agree that most if not all of the critical issues and evidence are now on record. For most of us legal language and evidential complexities can be confusing. So look at it very simply and asking a very simple question.

Did Dr Sachedina and or Mr Manji give all and the correct information they should have given to the Imam ? For example;

1 Alnaz had not been approached. Dr Sahedina was not sure but thinks Alnaz is running a website and distributing the book through that website.
2 This and the earlier Farman books have been distributed to Ismailies for the l;ast 18 years.
3 Farmans are not readily available to most murids in most JK’s or ITREB Offices. Jamat are not encouraged or informed they can come and read any farman they wish in Jamat Khannas. Has anyone heard any such announcement in the last 25 years ?
4 There are 2 professional experts who are confirming to Nagib that the 2 letters from the Imam are forgeries, and Nagib says he knows that the signature is lifted from another document.
5 Imam has authorized the printing of Farmans but the Leadership have not printed them due to other priorities.
6 The primary motivation for the Book by Nagib was that all Farmans are not available to most Murids nor reading of them by Murids is possible or encouraged.
7 Imam’s guidance, Farmans religious knowledge, and education for all murids is a priority for the imam. There is limited access and limited priority
8 ITREB & IIS have not been asked to verify and give a report on the authenticity and integrity of the Farmans in all the Books published by Nagib in the last 18 years.
9 Nagib has been running a website for over 15 years giving invaluable resources without making any profit. These resources are used by our Leaders, scholars and Students too.
10 Nagib has offered to share all his knowledge experience and resources for the benefit and betterment of the Jamat and our institutions
11 Nagib says he has explicit and implicit permission from the Imam to continue to publish farmans and distribute them to Ismailies.
12 Dr Sachedina had a 16 minute conversation with Nagib where he had made threats against Nagib
13 There have been no internal discussions and consultations amongst the leadership. This has been limited to discussions only between Dr Sachedina and Mr Manji.
14 There have been no institutional discussions or consultations amongst them or Local/National Mukhi Sahebs where Alnaz and Tajdin live.
16 The Jamati Seva profile of Nagib, Alnaz, and families with their Jamati appointments (List) were not given. Their local leadership and Mukhi Sahebs were also not consulted
17 Dr Sachedina had requested Nagib to meet the IIS team regarding assistance with publication of books by the IIS. After that meeting there was no progress. Was this communicated to the Imam.
18 Nagib is seeking direct guidance from the Imam which he will follow without question. The reason is because Nagib does not believe Dr Sachedina.

All this information and much more was available to Dr Sachedina and Mr Manji before the lawsuit was initiated. Why did they recommend this lawsuit and not have discussions the rest of the top leadership as directed by the Imam ?

Knowing all of the above would any leader recommend a lawsuit, and would the Imam authorize a lawsuit ?

Let us hope that this case is now settled as soon as possible.

* United Kingdom

Imam is Truth. Whoever did
On September 18th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Imam is Truth. Whoever did not tell him all the truth and told things which are in the category named "nothing but the truth" is there for a big surprise! Imam already knows what people tried to hide from Him. He probably wanted to put it on record and now this is done.

Cross Examinations
On September 15th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Without doubt, Dr. Sachedina has a very long management and administrative experience and that at a much higher level, and yet, he was not at all comfortable during his cross examination – resulting in contradiction of his own affidavits and his earlier cross – examinations.

On the other hand, both Nagib and Al Naz were very eloquent and clear during their cross examinations as well as conducting cross examinations of Dr. Sachedina and Mr. Bhaloo. Replies of both the defendants during their cross examinations were so clear cut and fluent that there was not even a single contradiction from their affidavits.

Like Dr. Sachedina, Nagib has also been facing the court first time -- and compared to Doctor, the job of Nagib was very tough. He was not only required to face a very prominent lawyer Mr. Gray but also has to conduct cross examinations of both Doctor and Mr. Bhaloo. Nagib was excellent at both the counts; he did his job splendidly well.

Any one having some knowledge of law, can easily deduce that Mr. Gray could not eject out any useful information from the defendants. All what he got was the same thing that both of them have narrated in their affidavits

When at one stage, Mr. Gray proposed to Nagib that Agakhan was sad with him because of forgery allegations of letters, Nagib was quick and confident in reply that He is happy with him as he was protecting His interest. And Mr. Gray could not ask any more questions to that reply.

Before cross examinations, some people thought Mr. Gray would shred all the evidences of the defendants into pieces, but nothing of that sort happened. On the other hand, Mr. Gray could not make even a small dent to any of the evidences of the defendants.

Did the LIF announcement deceive the jamat: YOU BE THE JUDGE....
On September 14th, 2010 Alnaz Jiwa (not verified) says:

ALREADY APPROVED (for publishing farmans) BY Mawlana Hazar Imam!!

LIF's announcement in January 16, 2010, informed the jamats as follows:

"The Jamat will be pleased to be informed that Mawlana Hazar Imam has already approved that the Jamati institutions should formally publish a volume containing the approved text of
his farmans, including those made for the Golden Jubilee."

Is the announcement accurate, or just one more deceit by LIF on the say so of Sachedina, you be the Judge:

On cross-examination of Mr. Shafik Sachedina during the Copyright litigation he answered as follows:

Q 390:
Mr. Jiwa: "The jamat would pleased to be informed that Molwana Hazar Imam has already approved that the Jamati Institution should formally publish a volume containing the approved text of his farmans." [as read] Do you know when did he formally approve this?

Mr. Sachedina: The principal. This is an approval of the principle to publish. That does not mean you can publish tomorrow. It is the principle that he has agreed. The principle to approve, that he has approved the principle of being able to publish the farmans at his time. He has not made a decision that tomorrow you will publish this. He has given his -- here, as I say to you, "approve the jamat to formally this." So he has given his agreement to publish. Now the process has got to be gone through.

Q 391:
Mr. Jiwa: Okay, so what I'm saying -- my question was: When did he give this approval?

Mr. Sachedina: This was during the -- this discussion has been on the table with Hazar Imam for a number of years.

Q: 392
Mr. Jiwa: No, this --

Mr. Sachedina: Listen to me, please. I have also.

MR. GRAY: Let him finish his --

Mr. Sachedina: I have to be able to give you the context of this. It is my right to give you a context to this. And, therefore during the Jubilee there were a -- during the Golden Jubilee of the Imam, there were a number of projects, and one of them was -- there's one to do with the speeches of the Imam, and this one also is the farmans of the Imam. And these were issues that were discussed by -- with Hazar Imam, and he has, as I said, given in principle his agreement to do this. The question is going to be the timing in when this will happen and the process has to -- due process will have to be gone through before they are released to the jamat.

Q 393:
R. JIWA: Q. So my question is when -- when the final approval was given?

Mr. Sachedina: About the...?

Q 394:
Mr. Jiwa: When you say "has already approved"?

Mr. Sachedina: I told you during the meeting with the leaders -- at the time of the Golden Jubilee, this proposal was --

Q 395:
Mr. Jiwa: No, it would be nice if you would say what month, what year?

Mr. Sachedina: During the Golden Jubilee when we -- leaders of the jamat periodically meet Hazar Imam, and there were meetings with Hazar Imam about what will be the outputs that we will do before the Jubilee, during the Jubilee, and the post-Jubilee. And the farmans would be the compilation also of -- all the farmans of the Golden Jubilee would be included in this. So this was something that came out of the Golden Jubilee.

Q 396:
Mr. Jiwa: So you cannot point to the month that he gave --

Mr. Sachedina: This was done in the context of the principle of -- agreement by approval by Hazar Imam to do certain things. And this was informed to the jamat that that approval has been given by Imam to do this. But, as I say to you, there's a process to follow, which Hazar Imam will have to be -- his guidance will have to be sought.

MR. GRAY: Excuse me just for a second.

--- Off-the-record discussion.

Q 397:
Mr. Jiwa: Now, Mr. Sachedina, your announcement --

Mr. Sachedina: Yes.

Q 398:
Mr. Jiwa: You were talking about this already approved and you explained that. Now, to your knowledge has His Highness, prior to his Golden Jubilee approval, has he ever approved prior to that for the publication of the farmans?

Mr. Sachedina: The principle to publish?

Q 399:
Mr. Jiwa: What do you mean "the principle"?

Mr. Sachedina: Because the fact is that, you know, there is no publication at the present time. There is no publication of farmans authorized by any institution actually at the present time which is there. So this will be something that is in the process. It was in the process, principle was agreed with Hazar Imam.

Q 400:
Mr. Jiwa: Right.

Mr. Sachedina: And now it's being looked at. Because I -- so that you should be aware, I had raised this matter with Hazar Imam of the Time of my meetings with Nagib at that time about this whole issue, that we will need to make sure that there's a publication available.

Q 401:
Mr. Jiwa: Did he give you an approval at that time? Did you ask him for approval at that time?

Mr. Sachedina: No, he had said that -- we are very, very clear on this matter, that whatever it is you prepare, submit, and then we will make a decision once I have reviewed the material.

Q 402:
Mr. Jiwa: Right. And so he said that in 1998 to you?

Mr. Sachedina: He said the principle about this is something I'm willing to consider and I'm willing to look at. And that's why I was very satisfied that this is where the direction we will end up at some point in time, but only after he has given his authority ###.

End of transcripts.......

Has the publication been "already approved" as announced on January 16, 2010?? You be the Judge!!!

Alnaz Jiwa

* Canada

Cross examination of Sachedina by AlnazJiwa
On September 21st, 2010 Alibhai Jivani USA (not verified) says:

Excellent work!
Very impressive!
Cannot happen without Mawla standing by you Alnaz!
Be humble, pray constantly and do Ibadat ,You have nothing to worry brother.
Hold Jamatkhana as tight as you can close to your heart.
Make his good momins happy and you will be blessed immensely
Just hang in there

* United States

Why is Dr Sachedina fumbling so much?
On September 17th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

The cross examination of Dr Sachedina regarding approval for publication of firman book is very troubling.
Why is he fumbling so much on such a simple issue ?
What is he blabbering about "principle" of publishing all the time?
It appears he is nervous and and not honest.

I agree that in Deedars and Darbars Hazar Imam gives Farmans extempore without any notes so he might like to review it once before it is read in JK ,which is normal we notice that Firman does not get read in JK right away but after a few days since it gets reviewd by HI before reading in JK.
These are the very farmans with the Tarika board.

Now why does Tarikaboard have to keep bugging Hazar Imam to review again before publication?
IIS and Tarika board are given the responsibility of compiling publishing and distributing efficiently in a timely fashion.
How much more red tape and bureacracy before a simple very important job is done in a timely fashion?
It is like saying Bismillah after every morcel of food?
Just say Bismillah with good heart when you begin your meal and say Shukhar once it is done
Hazar imam has so many issues to adress why keep on bugging him for the same thing again and again ?
He has created Institutions so that his work load is reduced not increased.

"To agree in principle to publish" this phrase does not make much sense to me.
For 1400 years the firmans are made and since we cannot remember them we need written books so we can read again and again.
This principle is there since time immemorial
Vedas, Bhagvat, Bible, Kuran , Firmans of previous Imams ,this Imam etc etc
When was ever the principle of compiling the Holy firmans of Imam ever denied by any Imam?
So why that would ever be a landmark event during GJ?

Yes ,Tarika board must complete the task of compiling and publishing the farmans ASAP during and after GJ that could have been an initiative(agreed principle!). ( that is not to keep beating around the bush as has been the case for several years but JUST DO IT.)

* United States

LIF did not deceive the Jamat in my view !
On September 15th, 2010 A concerned Murid (not verified) says:

Dear Mr Jiwa

I refer to Mr Alnaz Jiwa's comment regarding the LIF announcement.

The LIF and the National Council's joint announcement confirms that the publication of farmans is approved AND also in the process of publication because the LIF announcement goes on to say that this publication will be available to the Jamat in the near future.

What Dr Sachedina is now saying in his cross examination lacks clarity and totally contradicts the LIF announcement in January 2010. Therefore either the LIF announcement is not true or what he is now saying is not true.

LIF and national councils may have been allowing Dr Sachedina to rubber stamp directives and instructions because this is normal established practice and there is no reason not to beleive Dr sachedina when he communicated Imams directives, guidance and wishes to and through the LIF.

In fact LIF was not even consulted regarding this lawsuit but was breifed by Dr Sachedina after the lawsuit (confirmed by Dr Sachedina).

Therefore LIF as a body did not consider and then make that announcement. So LIF as a body of leaders did not intentionally deceive the Jamat or their sister institution (in this case the national councils)

If the Farmans are not in the process of being published then we can be sure that LIF will seek calrification on this and any other matters institutionally and from the Imam where they consider it necessary.

I am sure Dr Sachedina, Mr Manji, LIF and leaders will do what is right and in the best interest of the jamat.

* United Arab Emirates

Mawla's unique message through LIF as read in JK (9/4/2010)
On September 16th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Mawla sent an unique message emphasising to the LIF in the meeting on 4th Sept 2010 in London which was read on the 9th Sept 2010 in JK.
"Communicate " to my jamats my Special blessings, my Special blessings ,my Love, my Thoughts and my Affection"(some more message.....)

It is incredible the message emphasised "communicate".
I have heard all the other blessings but not the above 5 in the order mentioned.
I am sure Mawla attends quite a few if not all the LIF meetings and must be sending blessings for the jamat everytime he meets them but do we hear from LIF everytime that Mawla has sent blessings? And articulated as given?
I am sure so often it is taken as given routine passed on by LIF without given necessary importance and without communicating to Jamat that Mawla had to use the word "communicate" my blessing and message this time.
Am I reading in between lines?

* United States

Mowla's Message
On September 16th, 2010 Sadaaf (not verified) says:

Alibhai,

I think not only are you reading between the lines, you are probably also "drawing new lines". Starting from Dubai December 2003 to the last message, Mowla has used many phrases and constructed sentences that we had not come across before. Would you have found it just as incredible if Mowla had said "convey" or "share with"? If you are infering that the LIF do not always pass on messages then why do you think they decided not to hold back this time?
And for your information this was the first LIF meeting that Mowla attended after 13 December 2008 and does not generally attend the meetings.

* United Kingdom

@Alibhai Jiwani
On September 16th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Many thanks for sharing this beautiful message from Our Beloved Hazar Imam. Thank you once again

* Canada

Comunicate to my Jamat my thoughts !
On September 16th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

We have heard Mawla reassure us many times that we are always in his heart and thoughts.

This message is special alsobecause Mawla wishes his thoughts to be communicated to the Jamat. Mubaraki to LIF, and thank you for communicating these messages and guidance from the Imam. Assuming Alibhai's recollection of the announcement is correct (no reason to doubt it)

* United Arab Emirates

LIF's position
On September 15th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

They have had months to clarify, and despite the confusion and issues raised, no clarification has been in order.

Also the announcement WAS on behalf of LIF, wasn't it?

* Canada

Understanding cross-examinations......
On September 14th, 2010 Alnaz Jiwa (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad:

Many are reading the summaries of the transcripts on Ismaili.net. However, those are simply summaries. For insistence, I do not believe that all answers have been produced in the summaries.

If you wish to understand the issues well, please read the whole transcripts, not just a few questions and answers in the summary.

UNDERSTANDING TRANSCRIPTS:

Also note that when reading transcripts, remember that questioning on cross-examinations is not simple. If a person has stolen something, and he is on trial, he will never agree that he stole that item, and so questions have to be complicated and dealing with side issues, or what appears like side issues, and then the judge determines the credibility of the accused and seeks to make findings of guilt or innocence based on all of the answers.

If you think that a thief can only be found guilty if he admitted that he stole the item, than there would not be any convictions in any court across the world. Often what appears as an innocent question traps the accused and the answer betrays his guilt.

Similarly, pay close attention to questions and answers of the two witnesses, Sachedina and Bhaloo. Often they simply refused to answer the question asked, or answered a completely different unasked question, or were defiant.

For example: I challenged Sachedina and told him that only he (Mohamed Kashevjee and others like them) say that Hazar Imam edits and approved the Farmans, (a point he repeatedly made), and I asked him to show me one document (other than the forged ones sent to us after or just before the litigation) - namely either a Farman, a memo or Direction sent by Hazar Imam to ITREB, or anyone, or an article of our Constitution (which I had established previously (before the Constitution was completely changed in 1986) had clauses on the publication of Farmans). Sachedina emphatically said that there is an article in the 1986 Constitution that says that Hazar Imam has the exclusive right to edit and approve Farmans. Not surprisingly, the article he pointed to had nothing to do with it. On the contrary, much later when I asked him about a document produced (dated May 17, 2010) in the litigation that seemed to suggest a process has been established for the publication of Farmans, he said that Hazar Imam HAD asked him to produce what was the process adopted by ITREB to publish Farmans (note!!! nothing to do with Hazar Imam saying this is the PROCESS I WANT ITREB TO FOLLOW).

His answers completely betrayed their position that it is Mawlana Hazar Imam WHO edits and approved Farmans. (There are many questions in different areas of the transcript that needs to be reviewed to understand the full extend of the evidence given by them.)

But one thing is clear, that after almost 300 pages of transcripts, there is NOT ONE shred of evidence to support their stand that Mawlana Hazar Imam edits and/or authorizes the release of Farmans. Am I surprised. No, not at all.

All of the older Constitutions (prior to 1986) expressly gave authority to Association (as it was then known) the following powers:

“HOLY FARMAN AND THE CONSTITUTION
...
7. The Ismailia Association shall record, compile and certify Holy Farman.
8. The Ismailia Association in consultation with the Supreme Council shall be responsible for publication of Holy Farman.
9. Copies of Holy Farman shall be forwarded by the Ismailia Association to the Supreme Council.
10. Any Holy Farman certified by the President of the Supreme Council shall be conclusive evidence thereof.

NOTE: there is no EDITING of Farmans at all required.

NOTE: there is no PRIOR approval required of the Imam at all.

So it is NOT surprising that they have NOT given one shred of evidence that MHI edits His farmans (other than the forged signatures), or NEEDS to edit His Farmans. Yet during this period up to 1986 when the new Constitution came into being, not one book was published although they had the power to do so.

In order to understand the issues (or else people make the same argument as made by another netter earlier to follow the "second letter") one must read all documents if that person wants to come to grips with the issues AND also to keep in mind our Imam's Farmans, traditions, going back to hundreds of years, or else one is simply barking up the wrong trees.

Also interesting read is about the announcement made re: Hazar Imam has "already approved" the publication of Farman books. Read it yourself and see if you can make sense of the answers (after reading the answers a few times, I cannot still make sense of what he was saying), and then make up your mind whether the announcement was truthful or not.

Alnaz Jiwa

* Canada

Dear Alnaz, I am worried about you.
On September 15th, 2010 Dilawar H Momin (not verified) says:

Dear Alnaz Jiwa,
You understand very well how guilt mind works and therefore you accordingly answered the questions asked in your cross examinations.
Yes Dr. Sachedina and Mr. Bhaloo didn't answer all questions because they wanted to safeguard the interest of Imam and the Ismailis. How Imam works and how He gives instructions, direction and guidance to the leaders or what kind of process He has established or followed is not of your business and they are right in not disclosing that information and His policy regarding His Farmans.
Are you saying Imam has no authority over His Own Farmans? He can do whatever He wants to do with His Farmans. You can not dictate or decide whether there is need for editing or not. It is only Imams prerogative as He knows what is in best interest of His Jamat and Imam is not bound or obliged to let you know how He wants to deal with His Farmans. And here all arguments end. Period.
Mr. Alnaz, since last 25 years Farmans are not published. Do you think Imam is not aware of it? Or is leadership lazy to publish? Or is it not capable to publish the Farmans? Or is leadership intentionally not publishing the Farmans? Or do they have some malicious intentions? Or do they conspire against Imam and Ismailism?
Any sane person can understand that though you know the truth and instead of accepting it, you created the excuse of by twisting the event of Mehmani, of forged signatures so that you can continue to fight the leadership and this law suit in the pretext of defending all Ismail’s interest and bring out the "misled" Imam (your words in Cross Examination, Q/A 67, 68; pg 229) from the clutches of corrupt leadership.
Mr. Alnaz, come out of the illusion, and surrender to the Imam of the Time unconditionally whereby you can still save the Imam Murid relationship. I am worried about you. We will survive without published Farmans as His blessings are enough for us but what about you?

* United States

@Dilawar
On September 16th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Brother Dilawar, I can see from your above post you are "worried about Alnaz", that's very kind of you, but we all know that Our Beloved Hazar Imam loves all His Murids, and He will take care of Alnaz and Naqib, and will also take care of the situation. May Allah give you Peace and Happiness. Ameen. Thank You.

* Canada

@ Dilawar
On September 16th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

Dear Dilawar:

It seems you are very quick making your judgment. One must read thoroughly all the documents along with cross examinations, and then to look for inter relationship between them as well as contradictions.
To understand this case one must have at least some background and /or similar experience as well as general knowledge of laws and the methodology adopted by the courts.
The next stage at the court is ‘arguments’, and hence it is likely that the court will not be able to deliver final judgment possibly until end of the year. Also courts do not go by personalities but by evidences, cross examinations, and arguments. So please have patience and let us wait until then.

Wrong assumptions lead to unfair conclusions
On September 16th, 2010 Concerned Momin (not verified) says:

Dilawer Momim; I feel your assumptions are emotional, unsubstantiated and frankly wrong because you have not read and understood the many reasons why Alnaz and Nagib are seeking direct guidance from the Imam.

Please read why Dr Sachedina says Mr Alnaz Jiwa is included in the lawsuit. http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/30389. I hope you will now look at your post again and judge for yourself if you have been being fair and reasonable to Alnaz Jiwa..

* United Arab Emirates

Not for my liking, thank you.
On September 15th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

Please don't worry about me. With Hazar Imam's Noor on my side, I am well taken care of.

You said: You understand very well how guilt mind works and therefore you accordingly answered the questions asked in your cross examinations.

What !!! I tell clients: tell the truth and cross-examinations will be breeze. Lie, hide the truth, exaggerate, or try to deceive: you will be crucified.

You said: Dr. Sachedina and Mr. Bhaloo didn't answer all questions because they wanted to safeguard the interest of Imam and the Ismailis.

What !!! Hazar Imam says, be ethical, be truthful, be upfront.... are you suggesting that Shafik and Aziz were committing perjury? That they were told to do so by Hazar Imam? For god’s sake, they WERE witnesses of the named plaintiff weren’t they, and they wanted to do what - Lie? Hide the truth? Deceive? (after taking an oath?) Wow. Your arguments reminds me of some historical characters when they were arguing against Hazrat Ali, and Imam Hussein?

You said: How Imam works and how He gives instructions, direction and guidance to the leaders or what kind of process He has established or followed is not of your business and they are right in not disclosing that information and His policy regarding His Farmans.

What !!! As an Ismaili it is MY business. You may not want to be guided by farmans (it is obvious you are not familiar with Hazar Imam’s Guidance in this regard: see farman made by Him to Gilgit in 1987, and in India in 1992 and those farmans will show off your ignorance as betrayed in your above comment.) Furthermore, His guidance, directions WERE announced in the jamatkhanas? Why, if not to inform us and to make us part of the process.

This is my point. People (you as an example) are quick to make comments without any understanding of our traditions, Farmans, Ginans, and they think they know it all.

You said: created the excuse of by twisting the event of Mehmani, of forged signatures so that you can continue to fight the leadership and this law suit in the pretext of defending all Ismail’s interest and bring out the "misled" Imam (your words in Cross Examination, Q/A 67, 68; pg 229) from the clutches of corrupt leadership.

You were NOT even present at the Mehmani, were you? How much do you know about our traditions, farmans, ginans. What about our history? I bet none. (After all you are content to be without farmans, it says it all!!!) Do you know that leaders have misled the Imams? Forget about leaders? Do you know that even an Imam’s son, own blood, once became Imam without being appointed by his father and took over his brother’s right (coup the right Imam’s appointment)? I bet not. If you KNEW you would be careful in making the comments you made.

So for one who has no idea of what is expected by the Imam what can I expect of him. (Note your own comment: His blessings are enough for us...?) No I am not satisfied just with Blessings. Our Imams have said (you don’t read farmans so how would you know), that, “without action prayer is useless”, and there are so many farmans that URGE us to abide by the Farmans and Ginans and Constitution (one is: “I have given you Farmans which I urge you to follow, because these Farmans I make are made for My Jamats”).

Of course, there are many who do not care about Imam’s guidance (as your own comments suggest) and do not care about following farmans. Hazar Imam has said: An Ismaili who did not obey My word in matters of faith, would not be excommunicated, he would still be a Muslim. He simply would no longer be a member of the jamath (his followers).” How would one be able to comply with this without reading farmans?

So please, please don’t count me as part of your group because I’d rather follow the Imam and not be with the likes of some historical characters when they were also saying what you said: WE DO NOT NEED FARMANS OF HAZRAT ALI? In fact, just in the same vein as you, Shafik has aslo said similar things isn’t it - Hazar Imam’s farmans made by him in person are NOT FARMANS.

So please, do me a favour and No, don’t count me with you, and the likes of you.

* Canada

@Alnaz
On September 16th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Excellent writing. Alnaz I know you and Nagib have very strong faith in Our Beloved Hazar Imam, He loves all His Murids and He will take care of the situation. Thank You.

* Canada

Mr. Dilawar H. Momin
On September 15th, 2010 Natasha (not verified) says:

Mr. Dilawar, relax man!!!!! I do surf Heritage which is an excellent site and when I read your comments they are full of anger and hatred. Mr. Dilawar before telling off the defendants why don't you change your attitude, if not the best site to surf is vancouverite. Enjoy surfing Sir Dilawar

* Canada

@ Natasha
On September 16th, 2010 Nash (not verified) says:

Very Well said, Thank You.!

* Canada

Imam's prerogative to chose
On September 15th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Dear Dilawar H Momin

Imam knows that the group of murids he has entrusted to publish his Farmans, are publishing them accurately since 20 years. Questioning the Imam on why he chose this group to fulfill his instructions instead of allowing some institutions to do it would be challenging the Imam on what is his prerogative.

This is exactly what you have done in your post above. You have challenged the Imam in his decision to chose whoever he wishes for whatever missions he wishes. You have challenged the Imam to have chosen the occasion of a mehmani to give his instruction to his murids. You should go back to Ismaili history and try to understand that the Imam's authority does not depend on your understanding. Maybe the Imam did not chose you for this task because he felt others were more competent and more likely to succeed in this task. There is no need to be jealous. Maybe some day the Imam will give you some tasks which are more at your level...

I hope Alnaz shares his views on your post.

Re: some posts of Sept. 15
On September 16th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Dear Librarian-umed,
Some of the comments that appeared on the 15th (and maybe the 14th too) were of unusually caustic and almost "vitriolic" style; in the future, could the authors of such comments be asked to reword the parts of their messages that are unreasonably caustic before you post them? Please know that I mean no offense !
Thank you for making all the information available to us.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Kanize
On September 18th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Very well written. Thank You.

* Canada

Imam's expectations of the Jamats
On September 15th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

“But basically, the new Constitution provides that every Murid has the same relationship to the Imam-of-the-Time in the administration of Jamati matters and that is, I think, a very important step. The Constitution has not been designed as an instrument of uncaring direction. On the contrary, it is an instrument seeking to respond to the needs of the Jamat in a manner which will serve the purpose and the interests of the Jamat. The Constitution has been designed, therefore, to serve. And it is in that spirit that I would wish the leadership of the Jamat to conceive of this document. It is a document aimed at serving the Jamat." Mawlana Hazar Imam, Gilgit 1987.

This farman has NEVER been read to the jamats.

What is the Imam saying, what does the Imam expect of the Jamats?

* Canada

Imam encourages checks and balances, trust and cooperation
On September 17th, 2010 Valimohammed (not verified) says:

After the Constitution in 1986 and the enabling environment. Imam gives his thoughts in a public speech in March 1987 about checks and balances “…It is my profound conviction that steps to strengthen institutions and the linkages between them are critical to the freedom of the individual to be creative and productive in a socially responsible manner. This is the essence of the Enabling Environment. In textbooks, most discussion of freedom centers on the prevention of absolute power. It is about checks and balances. The time has come to evolve concepts and practices of "positive freedom," the links between individuals and institutions and the rules of the game that encourage mutual trust, promote cooperation, unleash human potentials and make possible a whole that is greater than the sum of the parts…. I would like to see a broadening of the dialogue on the support and strengthening of institutions..”

* United Arab Emirates

Thank you for sharing. Most
On September 17th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

Thank you for sharing. Most murids & Leaders will be shocked as I am that this Farman (or any Farman) has not been read to the Jamats or guidance from the Imam not shared.

Imam made this Farman in 1987. He knew then that that that the Jamat & Leaders will require the right enabling tools and resources to meet the administrative challenges of self interest, meritrocracy and pluralism. Imam has since given guidance on the enabling enviornment, meritrocracy, pluralism collaboration, frontierless brotherhood and community and the knowledge or now the creative society.

Imam gave this guidance and knew 23 years ago what is today acknowledged and advocated by the top management gurus regarding institutional solutions. The old traditional administrative model has major side effects. It tempts historically senior Leaders to appoint in their own "images", and this reduces genetic diversity, meritocracy, transparency, & trust. It produces frequent misalignments between positional power and leadership capability. This thereby increases nepotism and undermines the motivation for common interest, trust and morale.

The LIF Meeting on 4th Sept which Mawla attended and with all ITREB Chairpersons being present in London was an excellent and a unique "opportunity" for Leaders.

As a global commuinity we have the right guidance, tools, resources and capacity for extraordinary acomplishments which can be acheived sooner.

Imam is saying to the Jamat and epsecially the leaders that inclusiveness and participation of the Jamat are central and crucial "... in the administration of Jamati matters.." and in order "to serve" the interests of the Jamat as a whole..

I am certainI speak for other murids and leaders, when I say a BIG THANK YOU to you again for sharing this Farman. May Mawla bless you with more seva, peace and happiness. Ameen.

* United Arab Emirates

Farman on constitution
On September 17th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

I have only partially quoted from the Farman, the whole Farman has about 90 sentences on the constitution and, in my humble opinion, all Ismailis, specially all office bearers must read, understand and abide by this and a few other such farmans on the constitution.

* Canada

Cross-examinations (original docs etc.) of expert.......
On September 14th, 2010 Alnaz Jiwa (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad:

Mr. Gray asked us to produce original documents of Talikas that we borrowed from other murids to obtain samples of signatures and the original letters purportedly written by Hazar Imam. The Talikas were returned to the murids who had lent them to us, but not giving them the originals is not significant as copies of the sample signatures were produced. Gray has not even alleged that any of the signatures given as samples by us are "not" real signatures.

The original letters purportedly sent by Hazar Imam have not been given to them by us, as they are the ONLY originals and are of immense value as they are the ONLY proof we have of the forgeries, and if lost (???) would be an immense benefit to Shafik and his associates.

Furthermore, it baffles my mind that Gray wanted to have his expert review the originals (purportedly sent by his client) instead of having Hazar Imam (if Hazar Imam is the plaintiff) who could have given evidence of the authenticity of the signatures without having to see the originals. (The only attempt to prove that Hazar Imam wrote the two letters is itself a document (3rd one) with forged signature.)

The issue of Hazar Imam's health and age is nonsense. Hazar Imam (admitted by Shafik) is in very good health.

However, I urge all to take a test: there are three signatures of Hazar Imam - 1st letter, 2nd letter (with handwritings) and the Affirmation (purportedly signed before a lawyer). All were signed between January and May of this year. They are saying all of these are AUTHENTIC. We are saying not so.

Take this test: review the three signatures, and you will no doubt agree that 1st and 3rd signatures are alike, BUT the 2nd letter's signatures is different, signature is original (is cut from another document and pasted to the one sent to Nagib), then why are the other 2 signatures different from the 2nd letter.

All you need is COMMON SENSE to compare the signatures, and to date I have not come across anyone (even those who don't read English) who have said all three signatures are alike. All are alleged to have been signed within weeks of each other and all signed in old age and after the injury - and yet one (2nd one) is completely different.

The cross-examination of the expert did NOT impeach his findings, although health, age, and having more of current signatures are issues raised. NOTE: No current signatures were provided by Gray to our expert to impeach his findings, by showing that Hazar Imam's current signatures have actually deteriorated due to age or health. None whatsoever.

In a separate note, I will post my view of cross-examinations, how to read and understand them.

Ya Ali Madad.

Alnaz Jiwa

* Canada

Authenticity of Affirmation
On September 15th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

Why didnt you cross examine the Notary Public and Lawyer who were present at signing of Affirmation in Boston in May and have signed affidavits to that effect ?? A slightly varying "" different"" signature by the real , actual , verified and named person DOES NOT make it a forgery , does it ? That is what these two claim n their affidavits, dont they ? Allahu Alim

* Canada

Comments betrays the writer's knowledge (or lack thereof)
On September 15th, 2010 Alnaz (not verified) says:

You are suggesting that slightly different signatures do not mean a forged signature. Are you suggesting that a forger will forge an OBVIOUSLY different signature??? I think not. Please read up on forged signatures, it cannot be a passing and cursory review to enable you to make reasoned decision (how much time have you spent on reviewing the various signatures, and have you reviewed authentic signatures under machines to review the strokes, style, etc.? I can bet, the answer will be "none".) . Signatures are signed by people unconsciously, the strokes, the starting lines, ending gestures, all are automatic. A forger will get some or many similarities in signature he is trying to forge, but, and a big but, he cannot get the unconscious things right.

You asked why not cross examine the notary and lawyer. You will have to wait to hear my arguments to the Court to reveal the real reason and to identify the major flaws not only in their evidence (on their face) but also in the Affirmation itself.

* Canada

Alnaz's above reply to the previous post
On September 20th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Touché !!
Ya Aly madad !

* Canada

Cross examine the Notary Public and Lawyer?
On September 15th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

I think that question was already answered in the cross-examinations. There is no point examining a third party that may be mistaken. The definitive answer can only be given by the Aga Khan Himself.... If He is the one who actually signed.

Re: Believer's above post
On September 17th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Brother Believer,
With all due respect, may I draw your attention on the fact that if Hazer Imam was the One Who had signed the documents, then Mr. Gray would never have needed to cross-examine Mr. Ospreay, he would just have asked Mowla Bapa to appear and say that He is the one Who had signed, and, in the first place, there would never have been a trial either, since the defendants would have submitted to His will without questioning it...It is because the signature IS forged that the defendants CANNOT give in. And please, brother Believer, remember that the Imam of the Time would NEVER sue a mureed whose bayyat He has accepted...
Forgive me if my remarks are offending you: I don't mean to.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Cross-Examination of Defense Expert Mr Ospreay by Lawyer Mr Gray
On September 13th, 2010 heritage says:

Cross-Examination of Expert Shows Main Weakness of Lawsuit Allegedly by Aga Khan - 2010-09-12

The cross-examination of Mr Ospreay only shows more clearly that Mr Gray has no new credible evidence to present, and that he has no direct access to the Aga Khan to clear up the forgery issue. This gives more credibility to the Defendants' claim that the whole case is initiated by a usurper and not by the Aga Khan Himself.

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

Ospreay's cross-examination
On September 14th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for making this available to us, Heritage Staff!
Keep up the good work!
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

lawsuit Cross-examination
On September 14th, 2010 nato (not verified) says:

Le désarroi d’un intellectuel ismaili

Ces derniers jours, disons depuis la fin du mois précieux du Ramadan, nous sommes inondés d’informations et des échanges peu courtois, parfois belliqueux qui s’adressent directement à Alnaz et Tazdine. Halte, s’il vous plaît, halte là !

Nous sommes, nous restons et resterons frères et sœurs ! Le lien du Bhayat à notre Vénéré Imam est indéfectible ! Ce ciment et cet acte d’allégeance sont éternels !

Et nous sommes tous d’accord que ce procès juridique, étalé avec fracas dans les milieux juridiques et publics ne nous fait pas plaisir, nous déconcerte et nous met dans l’embarras absolu ! Et notre tristesse est immense et très sincèrement, nous souhaitons, nous prions quotidiennement que cette douloureuse parenthèse soit rapidement refermée une fois pour toute !

Ce procès n’a pas lieu d’être ! C’est un procès inutile ! A ce que je sache, Alnaz et Tazdine ne mettent pas en cause le fondement, les Dogmes de notre Tariquah Ismaili ! Au contraire, voulant servir notre Imam –e Zaman, ils ont depuis longtemps avec un engagement sincère, dynamique, avec un investissement en temps, connaissance, financier… voulu mettre leur savoir-faire et ainsi faire bénéficier l’ensemble de notre Jamat du monde entier des Farmans, des directives, des discours, des interventions de Mowlana Hazar Imam ! Je leur suis très reconnaissant !

Le monde bouge, le monde est globalisé et après ces décennies d’installation dans le monde industrialisé, en Europe, dans le continent américain, canadien, nous subissons de plein fouet la perte des repères, l’ignorance de l’éthique non de la Foi mais même l’éthique laïque…. la fulgurante ascension de l’individualisme, de l’égoïsme, du matérialisme…. qui peut aujourd’hui dire que tout ce que Mowlana Hazar Imam dit, fait ne nous rend pas fier d’être Ses fidèles !

Dans notre entourage professionnel, nous sommes déjà une minorité et encore minorité plus forte parmi d’autres musulmans, alors dans mon comportement de tous les jours, je me nourris constamment des Farmans, des discours de Mowla Bapa et souvent j’ai besoin de me plonger, replonger chez moi dans ces Farmans ! Et que disent ces Farmans ! Qu’il n’y a pas conflit entre l’intellect et la Foi, que le pluralisme, la diversité sont des atouts et non un handicap, que l’Ethique de notre Foi, notre Pratique Esotérique de l’Islam est une quête spirituelle, personnelle, intime, individuelle et que il ne doit pas avoir un conflit entre Din et Dounia ! Et dans ma vie professionnelle, en contact permanent avec des croyants, agnostique, athées, chrétiens, hindous, israélite… musulmans sunnites…..mon comportement d’un individu laïque certes mais ismaili tolérant, généreux, serviable, disponible pour des discussions et échanges sans agressivité… est irréprochable et souvent force l’estime et l’admiration ! et en toute simplicité, en toute honnêteté intellectuelle, je n’hésite pas à afficher et dire que je tiens ces repères, ces codes de vie de mon Imam du temps Présent qui s’appelle AGAKHAN IV ! Et à plusieurs reprises, je leur ai fourni des textes, non des Farmans mais des discours, des interventions de Mowla Bapa….et laissez moi vous dire que cela les impressionne ! Mowla Bapa ne nous a pas dit que nous devons être des ambassadeurs de l’Islam et être fiers de notre Tariquah qui est un mode de vie lié à la paix, la tolérance, le pardon et la justice…..

Je vous en supplie, ne nous disputons pas et ne cherchons pas à agresser Tazdin et Alnaj. Ils ont déjà beaucoup de pressions comme cela.

Disons seulement tous ensemble et bien forts que nous ne sommes pas très heureux de cet étalage de notre linge sale en public ! A ma connaissance, on n’a pas utilisé toutes les ressources, Mukhis Sahebs, Présidents des Councils, ITREB, CAB, ICAB. ….les Sages et anciens Leaders du Jamat pour résoudre ce différend qui pour moi reste mineur ! Vraiment, il y a des domaines où on doit plutôt s’investir, mettre en commun notre énergie, notre savoir et selon les Hidayats de Mowla Bapa des différents Golden Jubilee voir comment résoudre les problèmes de la grande pauvreté, de la qualité de vie digne des Seniors ….. et je reviens d’un séjour au Tadjikistan où des milliers de membres jeunes et moins jeunes attendent que nous les épaulions pour prendre leur destin en mains !
Arrêtons de nous invectiver et d’aggraver inutilement les dissensions entre nous ! Ce procès est triste, très triste ! Et quelque soit le dénouement, nous restons et serons toujours par la Grâce de Mowlana Hazar Imam Ses Enfants spirituels ! Et que Mowla nous garde tous sur la voie droite du Siratal-Mustaquim !

Mohez nato docteur-es Sciences UPS11 Paris
Ps : j’autorise les internautes comme Kanize, Yasmine…..à traduire mes propos en anglais !

* France

Re: Le commentaire de Mohez Nato
On September 16th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Mille excuses ! Quelqu'un d'autre a déjà affiché une traduction produite par un logiciel...
Merci tout de même de m'avoir jugée digne de confiance pour traduire votre message !
Ya Aly madad.

PS Si vous pensiez qu'il y avait étalage de linge sale sur ce site auparavant (avant le message ci-dessus), eh bien, vous risquez d'être fort choqué (et dégoûté, je n'en doute pas) des derniers commentaires qui viennent de paraître (le 15)...Cent "ameen" à vos prières, car beaucoup semblent être en train de s'égarer, hélas.

* Canada

Re Kanize, Dilawar
On September 16th, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madat Kanize et Dilaware,

Effectivement Kanize, je suis effondré, très triste de ce que je viens de lire ! Ce que je craignais est en en train de se produire ! Quand je parle de linge sale, dans une grande famille comme la nôtre, avec les jeunes générations qui sont là, qui sont plus exigeantes, veulent plus de transparence, veulent servir dans la clarté…. je crois vraiment que nous n’avons pas à aller prendre des avocats, des juges et nous justifier, nous s’invectiver ….devant des personnalités non ismailies ! Mowla Bapa a toujours prôné la modération, le consensus, l’entente, l’usage de notre Intellect pour résoudre ensemble nos différends et nos malentendus… et savoir pardonner ! Il y a de nombreux Farmans la dessus ! Pourquoi on n’a pas fait appel aux représentants (Mukhi Sahebs) de Mowla Bapa à Toronto, Nairobi et Montréal ? Pourquoi le CAB, le INCAB sont restés inactifs. Mais pourquoi ? C’est contraire à toutes les directives de Mowla Bapa ! Personnellement, je pense que ces représentants auraient résolu, mieux que le LIF ce différend !

Please Dilawar, un peu de retenue ! Ma tolérance, par ce que je suis votre frère de Foi, m’amène à respecter votre point de vue mais je suis obligé de m’insurger contre vos écrits contre Alnaj.

Dilawar, je vous trouve intolérant, violent, haineux et belliqueux ! S’il vous plaît, n’excitez pas la haine, j’ai peur de cette haine ! J’ai peur de vos écrits car vous savez bien qu’un grand nombre d’ismailis, à travers le monde souffrent, sont malheureux de cette histoire de procès ! Nous prions que cela s’arrête vite !!! Dilawar, J’ai peur de ce que vous avancez car vous vous drapez derrière une morale des intérêts, de l’ordre qui vient du LIF et qu’il faut exécuter sans discuter ! Non ! Non ! et Non ! Nous avons un profond respect, estime et admiration pour cette Institution. Il faudrait qu’elle aussi applique les Directives de Mowlana Hazar Imam, c’est– à dire être au service de Son Jamath, d’accepter le pluralisme, la diversité même des opinions, d’appliquer à la lettre la méritocratie, d’appeler et s’ouvrir à toutes les bonnes volontés dans le Jamath, d’être tolérant, modeste et surtout humble ! C’est le devoir premier du LIF ! C’est de cette façon que leurs annonces, leurs directives seront prises au sérieux !

Nous avons tous des devoirs et des droits !
Ya Ali Madat mohez nato

* France

@Nato Mohez
On September 16th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad and Bonjour Nato, I would love to read the translation of your above post in "English", please. Thank You. Merci.

* Canada

French comment By Nato
On September 14th, 2010 Alibhai jiwani (not verified) says:

I would love to read the comment.
please can you post english translation if it is possible
thanks

* United States

Translation
On September 15th, 2010 Murad (not verified) says:

A translation using the net, and therefore In some sentences the essence may be but the emphasis may not be the same.

The disarray (Confusion) of the intellect of an Ismaili

These days, say since the end of the precious month of Ramadan, we're inundated with information with little courtesy, and sometimes belligerent exchanges aimed directly at Alnaz and Tazdin. Please let us all stop this !
We are, we stay and remain brothers and sisters! Link to our Imam of our Bhayat is unwavering! This bond of brotherhood and this Act of allegiance are forever !

We all agree that this legal trial spread with crashing in legal and public circles we is not happy, we confuses and puts us in absolute spoilt! And our sadness is huge and very sincerely, we wish, we pray every day that this painful parenthesis is quickly closed once for all!

This trial has no place to be! This is an unnecessary trial! A that I know, Alnaz and Tazdine does involve not the Foundation, the dogmas of our Tariquah Ismaili! Instead, wanting to use our e - Imam Zaman, they have for a long time with a commitment to honest, dynamic, with an investment of time, knowledge, financial... you want put their know-how and thereby benefiting all of our worldwide of the Farmans Jamat, guidelines, speeches, interventions of Mowlana Hazār Imam! I am very grateful!

The world moves, the world is globalised and after decades of installation in the industrialized world, in Europe, the continent American, Canadian, we are brunt guides, ignorance of ethics not loss of faith but even secular ethics …. the meteoric rise of individualism, self interest egoism, of materialism …. which can today as Mowlana Hazār Imam said, does us proud and to be faithful !

In our professional surroundings, we already are a minority and yet stronger minority among with other Muslims, then in my behavior on a daily basis, I am constantly needing and reading Farmans, and Mowla Bapa speech and often I need these Farmans to guide my thinking! And that with these Farmans! There is no conflict between the intellect and faith, that pluralism, diversity are assets, not a handicap, the ethics of our faith, our practice Esotérique Islam is a quest for spiritual, personal, intimate, personal, and that there should be no conflict between Din and Dounia!

And in my professional life, in constant contact with non believers, agnostic, atheists, Christian, Hindu, Sunni... Muslim israélite etc….. My behavior of a secular person certainly but tolerant, generous, helpful, available for discussions and exchanges without aggressiveness- ismaili... is impeccable and often are a force considered with admiration! and easily . And intellectual honesty I have no hesitation to say that I am an Ismaili guided by my Imam with codes of my Imam time, life. And repeatedly, I say from the texts of some Farmans, speeches, and Mowla Bapa interventions... .and let me assure you that it impresses them! Mowla Bapa has told us we need to be ambassadors of Islam and be proud of our Tariquah which is a way of life and related to peace, tolerance, forgiveness and justice..

I beg, we do not argue, and we do not seek to attack Tazdin and Alnaj. They already have a lot of pressures.
Let's just say all together and very strong. We are not very happy of this display of our dirty laundry in public! To my knowledge, we have not used all the resources, Mukhis Sahebs, Presidents of Councils, ITREB, CAB, ICAB. ... .the sages and former leaders of the Jamat to resolve this differences which for me are still minor! Really, there are many areas where we must rather invest, pooling our energy, our knowledge and according to the Bapa Mowla Hidayats of the various Golden Jubilee see how to resolve the problems of extreme poverty, the quality of life worthy of the seniors.. I return a stay in Tajikistan where thousands of young and old members expect that we épaulions them to take their destiny in hand!

Let us not create unnecessarily exacerbating divisions between us! This trial is sad, very sad! And whatever is the outcome, we remain and will always be by the grace of Mowlana Hazār Imam Your spiritual Children !

And may Mowla keep us on the right track of Siratal Mustaquim!

* United Arab Emirates

To Brother Murad
On September 20th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Brother Murad,
Mohez Nato posted another comment in French, it needs translating (addressed to Kanize and Dilawar on Sept. 15), some people are eagerly waiting for a translation. Maybe you can help again?
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

The confusion of an ismaili
On September 15th, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

Murad, Merci infiniment et toute mon estime, ma gratitude et mes fraternels et sincères Ya ali Madat .
Best regards, mohez nato

* France

ameen
On September 15th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

Ameen

* Canada

Defendant's refusal to show original letters.
On September 13th, 2010 Jenny (not verified) says:

Both the letters were addressed to Mr. Tajdin, he is also unrepresented and was not even present at the cross examination of the Mr. Ospreay.
It was only Mr. Jiwa who was present at this cross examination with Mr. Ospreay. The statement that the defendants are not willing to submitt the original letters seems premature, because none of the letters were addressed to Mr. Jiwa.
For the Affirmation, there were apparently 3 copies signed, so obviously the plaintiff's lawyer must have an original copy.

* Canada

Mr Ospreay
On September 13th, 2010 ZUL (not verified) says:

umed-- we do not want the gist of this, can you post the actual copy of this transcript so tha we may judge ourselves what you are talling about

* Canada

Scroll down..
On September 13th, 2010 heritage says:

The transcript is attached to the article in the 'Attached Document" section. Just scroll down. .

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

"Eid Mubarak"
On September 9th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

"Eid Mubarak" to Umed of Heritage, and all on this Site. May Allah shower His Blessings upon each an every one of us, and may Our Beloved Hazar Imam Bless us with His Zaheri and Batuni Deedar. Ameen.

* Canada

Eid Mubarak to All, and ......
On September 9th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear All.

Ya Ali Madad,

It is amazing that so many on this forum are speculating lef&right claiming this and that about why Hazar imam is not doing this&that and making even such claims that lead others to think that both Dr. Sachedina and Mr. Manji are already guilty, at the same time claiming (or at least writing that they believe in the Noor and) that Mowla knows best.

Why are some of you speculating to the verge of ridicule on this matter and indiscirminately "Hanging the DIRTY LAUNDRY of the whole Ismaili Community out in open for the World to see - as if they are interested - and laugh at us?" Not to mention the direct or indirect inflammatory and degrading comments affecting our beloved Hazar Imam's credibility (by speculating on his health and state of mind etc, constantly quoting Dr. Sachedina and the events of the GJ in London)? I was there and I know and nearly the whole World by now knows what happened, so let it be.

The Imam who has done so much, not only for the Ismaili community (his Murids), but also for millions of the people of Third World, and newly independent developing countries in the former Soviet Union. Peoples of Pakistan & Afghanistan regardless of their cast, creed or religion are heavily indebted to Mowla.

It is nauseating to read some of the comments (regardless of whom their support goes to) and I hope that this frenzy of very intriguing gossip and inuendos and speculations that is feeding all those involved in it recklessly (unknowingly or knowingly) & also feeding the enemies of our Community and our beloved Hazar Imam, with ammunition that in future will come and bite us all i our tails. You count on it.

Mowla is Imam-e-Zamaan, period. Mr. Nagib and Mr. Tajdin and Dr. Sachedina and Mr. Manji and all other Leaders of our Institutions and Jamaats, including us all, are Mowla's Murids (unless some of you have renounced the faith). Many of us have personally offered BAYAT. (I will not go deeper into it). That should be enough for us to have patience and wait.
What we MUST DO (on this HOLY occassion of EID on our doorsteps) is to HUMBLY pray for all our Momin brothers
and sisters and their well being and rehmat & blessings of Mowla upon them and us. May we all be able to Live side by side with all other Human beings on this Earth in Harmony, with Grace of Allah.

Please I beg you to contain yourselves and let time take its course and wait for Mowla to do what He sees fit
in time to come. I am sure Mr. Tajdin and Mr. Nagib (being Murids of Mowla will also agree with me here). Let everybody have HIS/HER day in the court or better still let us hope that this matter will be resolved smoothly outside the court
and very soon.

My GREETINGS to YOU ALL & YOUR FAMILIES AND FRIENDS on THIS HOLY OCCASSION OF EID. &
May Mowla Bless You All with Iman Salamat Good health, Long Life, Lots of Barakat Peace & Happiness at all times.
Amen.

Humbly yours,
Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Thank you
On September 11th, 2010 Ali (not verified) says:

Thanks for your comment. So far the most sensible and intelligent comment

* Canada

I thank you, Sir for you appreciation
On September 12th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Mr. Ali,

Ya Ali Madad.

I thank you for your appreciation.

I wrote what I did, because I fully understand that in the moment of heat people get carried away and we some times (if not very often) react to things without thinking about the long term consequences. I think that that is exactly what his happening in this case.

I pray that this will put an end to all the speculations, inuendos and indirect slander coming from left and right and from people who have really nothing to do with this. We are ALL Mowla's Murids, and we must contain ourselves. Not only for our own sake, but for the sake of generations to come.

This is an extremely detrimental issue, if pushed out of context and it will do severe harm to us (individually) and even
collectively to our community ( not to mention the Embarrassment and pain MOWLA has to go thorugh due to HIS Murids behaving erratically).

Many of us are totally out of line and digress into quoting our secred religious tariqas etc. (as if they are interested)
to the rest of the World and even, by doing so, ridiculing people who they do not even know. We will become, or are in the verge of becoming a laughing stock for the rest of the World (that is interested). As if we need this at this time of
Global turmoil and catastrophes when we should be praying for and helping those affected by
them.

Those involved in this case should be left alone and, I am sure that you will agree, we should all "really" ( I repeat "REALLY") from deep in our hearts pray for "common sense" to prevail and that we "the Murids" do not cause any more pain to our Beloved Hazar Imam.

I am convinced that both Mr. Tajdin and Mr. Jiwa will also agree to what I have to say, them also being Mowla's Beloved Murids.

It would be reassuring to see them appealing to all on this FORUM "NOT to get CARRIED AWAY" and add to all the speculations, idle gossip and let the proceedings take their own course according to the LAW of the Country the case
has been filed in.

I shall let this be my last comment on this issue unless I get forced to write agan. Please forgive
me if I do not reply to any future comments on what I have written by brothers/sisters on this forum.

May Mowla Bless us ALL.Amen.
Best Wishes,
Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

The transcript highlights more compelling reasons
On September 9th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

The transcript highlights more and compelling reasons to be very concerned and like the defendants for institutional Leadership to consider and seek guidance from the Imam

1 Dr Sachedina says he thought Alnaz was involved in printing, distributing and running the website. He did not bother to check or ask Alnaz or meet him. Imagine Dr Sachedina saying that to the Imam. Would Imam agree to file a lawsuit against him ? Would anyone ? Why is the case still being continued against him ? Why treat a murid in this way ? A relevant Farman of our 48th Imam “…Howsoever strong may be the faith (iman) of someone, even then, if he hurts any mu'min, it would be equivalent to having hurt me. Pain inflicted on a momin, strikes in my heart like an arrow. I hold my pious mu'min dearly in my eyes. If anyone hurts such a mu'min, it would be as if he has hurt me in my eyes."
[admin link: Why is Alnaz Jiwa included in the Lawsuit? ]

2 Dr Sachedina says before the lawsuit was filed there were no institutional discussions with the Heads and Boards of LIF, IIS, ITREB ,or ICAB. Dr Sachedina says Imam asked him for leaders to discuss amongst themselves. Dr Sachedina says he and M Manji were involved and that Imam had spoken to M Manji. Knowing this would the Imam file this case. If there were discussions as directed by the Imam would the leaders have agreed with Dr Sachedina and M Manji to file the lawsuit?
[admin link: Initiation of the Lawsuit ]

3 Dr Sachedina says Imam indicated to him at the end or March that a lawsuit should be initiated. Dr Sachedina does not remember or is not saying the exact date. Surely he and M Manji and the lawyers would have that date. The lawsuit was filed on 6 April 2010 which is within 5 working days of the case being initiated

* United Kingdom

Why was affirmation needed at all?
On September 9th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

One thing I keep thinking is that if indeed Hazar Imam is the real plaintiff, why does he need to Affirm that with a notary ? Federal Court would validate that anyways.

And if Hazar Imam ideed initiated the lawsuit why did Dr Sachedina and Bhaloo give affidavits ? They were not needed to.Judge would have just decided the case based on the facts submitted in the statement of claims in accordance to copyrightlaws of the country.

And in the Cross exam they admit that Hazar Imam did not ask them to give affidavits and in fact they did not even show the affidavits to Hazar Imam before filing? It purely seems a defensive move .Going overboard to make it look real?

[admin link: Did the Imam ask Sachedina and Bhaloo to be His witnesses in this case? ]
[admin link: Did Sachedina and Bhaloo discuss their Affidavits with the Imam? ]

Why did President M Manji not give any affidavit if Hazar Imam spoke to him about the lawsuit?

Things really do not make any sense.

Even in secular world before striking a lawsuit the opposite party is always given a written "intention to sue notice" by the lawyer to give a fair chance to the defendant to admit the wrongdoing before the lawsuit strikes .Why would Hazar Imam not do that? It is absolutely impossible Mawla would be so unfair.Totally inconceivable.

Also since the defendants do not even have their lawyers it would be totally inappropriate to continue lawsuit with a full fledge team of best of lawyers that money could buy agaist the two defendant murids who are so miniscule compared to Mawla.

Hazar Imam would never in a million years do that!! It is unethical to lift weapons against unarmed ones!! World Ismaili leadership would neither do that.

It is orchestrated by one or two persons out of personal grudges and abuse of power (I think). Mawla is just letting it play out. He is all knowing in batin!

* United States

You sound Tormented!
On September 9th, 2010 Beleiver (not verified) says:

YAM Bloglaw,

You sound tormented that "The Imam filed the Lawsuit" despite these reasons.

I think you would feel much more at peace if you accepted the evidence that there is no evidence that the Imam filed the Lawsuit, and that it was initiated and filed by just a couple of institutional leaders whose level of respect towards the Noor of Imam can be seen in their treatment of Imam's Farmans.

I am at peace about the Lawsuit, but very much worried about how much of this kind of thinking is trickling down to my kids through institutional programs run by people who don't regularly access, read and research into Farmans to complement their curriculums.

Tormented?????
On September 9th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

My reading of the blog by Bloglow was that he or she did appear to say that the lawsuit was not filed by our beloved Imam. I do not know why you say that he or she is saying that Hazar Imam filed the litigation. Am I missing something?

It seems to me that Bloglow is supporting the defendants !!!!!

* Canada

Did Imam not finish a Farman because he was interupted ?
On September 9th, 2010 Vallimohammed (not verified) says:

During the GJ Farman in London, Imam talked about Leaders not sharing his guidance with the Jamat. Dr Sahedina says the Imam’s chain of thought was interrupted and the Imam clarified the Farman Dr Sachedina after the darbar (to share

If that is true then does the authorised farman released by ITREB includes the additional Farman and guidance which Imam gave to Dr Sachedina afterwards. During the Farman, after this message and the applause, Imam continued his farman. If Imam’s thoughts were interrupted Imam would have continued his message.

Our leaders should not be offended because all murids are equal to the Imam. Like he gave a clear message to the Leaders, Imam in the same farman said he knows that there is a lack of trust between murids in working together and developing alliances. This is also true. Imam then went on to give more guidance to all murids including the leaders.

That farman it contains invaluable guidance which is so very relevant today and in the lawsuit. Leaders and Jamat who are interested should ask for a copy to read.

[admin link: Contradiction: Imam's criticism of Leaders in London]

* India

Vallimohammed's above post
On September 10th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
In my country, when we need to read a farman like the one you mention, we need to make an appointment with the Tariqah Board during business hours and we need to drive there so as to read it...:-). It would take me 35 minutes to drive (one way). It would appear that is easier in India.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

We need Trust, Trust & more Trust
On September 11th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

If you call your Mukhi Saheb and request a particular Farman/s to read, then they should make it available to you in JK or during the day at your conveneince. Imam and the leaders in the lawsuit have re confirmed that farmans are available in all JK's around the world even in remote locations.

Your local mukhi Saheb should be happy and should encourage his Jamat to come to Jamat Khana and read Farmans. This is what Imam wishes and for the Jamat to use Jamat Khanas and the facilities including the Libraries provided for the Jamat.

Mukhi Sahebs and Sahebans should know all members of his Jamat and treat them equally and fairly. They must trust all members of their Jamat. Therefore in cases where for example a murid requests to take to read Farmans to a sick relative at home or in hospital. Mukhi should trust the Murid to do so and bring the farman's back.

If this is not happening in your part of the world then you must first speak to your Mukhi Saheb and then local ITREB together with him/her and ask is there is a reason why they are making it difficult and not trusting members of their Jamat. You should be able to freely talk to your Mukhi Saheb and Sahebans any time.

Mukhi Sahebans have full delegated authority from the Imam. ITREB are there to support, guide and advise them. They are sitting in the position of the Imam and representing the Imam every day. It is Imam's directive and farman that every murid and child must be given access to Farmans and religious education

I hope and pray that when you speak to your Mukhi Sahebs and Sahebans, and request farman/s to read then these will be provised to you wherever you are in the world , in JK's and making it more (not less) convenient. Ameen

Eid Mubarak to everyone.

* United Arab Emirates

Farmans can not betaken
On September 11th, 2010 zul (not verified) says:

Farmans can not be taken home, they are available to read in jk and itreb/council offices

* Canada

Mukhis representing Imam???
On September 11th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Which planet are you living in? Mukhis NO longer act as they represent our Imam, they represent ITREB, and or others (IIS, etc.) and have not much to do with what our Imam wants, other than in passing and when convenient only.

* Canada

Mukhi's are following
On September 12th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Mukhi's are following guidance and directives which they receive through their President and Chairmen of ITREB which they believe are from the Imam and are in accordance with the wishes of the Imam ! I don't believe for a single moment that Mukhi Saheb or Sahebans would knowingly go against Imam's guidance or are not following Imams guidance or not serving the Jamat.

It is up to you, all murids & leaders to make sure that their local Mukhis & ITREB's are aware and that they give acess to farmans in JK's and ITREB offices. That is asssuming that is not so.

It is the responsibility of the Chairman of ITREB, Mukhi's and President to jointly make sure that farmans are accessible, convenient to access and to encourage attendance and reading. Where one or all of them need clarification then they would and do seek guidance and clarification.

I am sure every murid will agree that Mukhis' and their families do give the most in terms of their time in representing the Imam every evening and also during the day. They are volunteers and have work and other related day to day commitments and responsibilities.

* United Arab Emirates

Momin's above post of Sept. 12th
On September 20th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Alas, brother Momin, there is a huge gap between what should be and what is in reality...I am afraid I lean towards Concerned's post of Sept. 11...Perhaps you are a Mukhi or the one you have is an ideal one...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Long drive to read farmans
On September 10th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

May I please ask which country you are speaking about. And can you not read then at jamatkhana?

How big is your jamat.

* Canada

Re: Concerned's question in above post (Sept. 10)
On September 20th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
If your question is based on my comment of Sept. 10 to Vallimohammed, then it is Canada we are talking about.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

"Not to follow Farmans made by previous Imam"?
On September 6th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Jamat knows that Imam makes Farmans according to the time. We should also refer to and remember Farmans made by previous Imam. Farman made by Our Beloved Hazar Imam in Dar-es-Salaam (Tanzania), Upanga Jamatkhana, December 7, 1961, as follows: ..I give to you all on this occasion My special loving blessings and I want you to remember the Farmans of My late Grandfather and My own.......Khanavadan, Khanavadan.

I remember these extracts from Farmans made by Our Beloved Sultan Muhammad, on Health: "Do not consume too much meat, instead eat lots of vegetables, lentils, grains and fish". After so many years are we not told by our health advisors the same?

I think Farmans made by Our Beloved Imams are "very important" and are "Treasure" to us, and should be printed for us to refer to, and remember them. Thank You.

[admin link: Are Previous Imams' Farmans to be Followed? ]

* Canada

NO CONSULTATION WITH IMAM OR WITH INSTITUTIONS
On September 5th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Contradiction: April 2010 Announcement - No Consultation?
Brian Gray tries to establish with Nagib that the April Announcement was written in consultation with all the LIF. Sachedina later contradicts this point of view and establishes that in fact the draft of the second announcement was not circulated to anyone in the leadership before it was read out in Jamatkhanas as being from the LIF, Councils, ITREB etc on the same evening that it was written by a couple of persons including Sachedina.

IN PRACTICE THE HEADS OF IIS, ITREB AND LIF REPORT TO DR SACHEDINA AND THROUGH HIM THE IMAM. THEY ATTEND MEETINGS PERIODICALLY WITH THE IMAM AND DR SACHEDINA OR NOT.
SIMILARLY ITREB COORDINATOR, COORDINATES, BUT IN PRACTICE ALL ITREBS GLOBALLY REPORTS TO HIM AND HE REPORTS TO AND THROUGH DR SACHEDINA TO THE IMAM.
DR SACHEDINA GIVES AND COMMUNICATES DIRECTIONS TO IIS AND TO ITREB ON ALL MATTERS.INCLUDING CONSTITUTIONAL AND INSTITUTIONAL. THIS IS THE INSTITUTIONAL STRUCTURE IN PRACTICE.
SINCE THERE WERE NO CONSULTATIONS AND IN LIGHT OF THE DOCUMENTS AND TRANSCRIPTS NOW IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN. SHOULD ALL LEADERS DO ANYTHING NOW;

WHERE INDIVIDUAL INSTITUTIONS, LEADERS AND THEIR BOARDS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE JAMAT AND ANSWERABLE TO THE IMAM, (ESPECIALLY ITREB, IIS LIF AND IACB/NACB );
1 THEY SHOULD REVIEW ALL THE COURT TRANSCRIPTS, AFFIDAVITS AND DOCUMENTATION AND
2 MEET AND DISCUSS WITH DR SACHEDINA WITH APPROPRATE HEADS/BOARDS AND
3 OBTAIN THE APPROPRIATE INFORMATION CLARIFICATIONS AND DOCUMENTATION
4 CONSIDER AND GIVE THEIR VIEWS AND RECOMENDATIONS AND
5 REACH A CONSENSUS INCLUDING ON SETTLING THIS LAWSUIT IMMEDIATELY AND AS A PRIORITY..
THEN THEY MIUST ALSO :;
1 CONSIDER TO SEEK DIRECT GUIDANCE FROM THE IMAM AND;
2 CONSIDER TO OBTAIN ANY RELEVANT AND APPROPRATE INFORMATION OR DOCUMENTS AND
3 ENSURE CORRECT AND COMPLETE INFORMATION WAS AND IS PROVIDED TO THE IMAM
4 ENSURE ALL REPORTS TO THE IMAM AND INSTITUTIONALLY ARE COMPLETE AND CORRECT

LEADERS I HOPE WILL CONSIDER CAREFULLY THE CONSEQUENCES EFFECT OF NOT BEING PROACTIVE OR OF PROCASTINATION.

* United Kingdom

If rest of the leadership does not act proactive.
On September 5th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

If rest of the leadership does not review the transcripts of the cross examination which very clearly indicates that Dr Sachedina is the main orchestator of the lawsuit and does not take any action to confront him , can we reasonably infer it is a "Yes" men kind of leadership ?

They are only of names and of no action ?
Everyone is only concerned about their seat and not their direct responsibility to Hazar Imam?

I was most disappointed to learn that Authorised Farman books from authorised source are nowhere visible in the near future as against the LIF announcement which assured Jamat of getting one soon.
The work is not even in active progress?
It is already about 9 months since the Huge announcement?
How disappointing?

[admin link: Has an Official Farman Book Publication Been Approved? ]

I am simply shocked with Dr Sachedina's hesitant confessions and his lack of knowledge in faith matters!

Defendants on the contrary came forth more confidently in their cross examination even without any attorneys sitting next to him.
Of course Mawla was sitting next to them in the attorney chair (in Batin )( I believe).

* United States

Chairmens and Presidents are
On September 7th, 2010 Umedali (not verified) says:

Chairmens and Presidents are hopefully all talking internally, seeking clarification, and considering what they believe are the wishes and guidance of the Imam and what is in the best interest of the Jamat. Equally Dr Sachedina will be giving clarification, guidnace and directive from the Imam to the Leadership.

If not you will be right. I hope you are not right. But i f you are right then this case will continue and improvement or change for the better will take time.

We have to pray that the leadership will do what is in the best interst of the Jamat and what are the directives and guidance from the Iman.

* United Arab Emirates

Hmmmm
On September 7th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Intresting to note that Sachedina will relay messages from the imam.... Are we forgetting Hazar Imam's Farman of His messages not being relayed by the leaders to the jamats.

* Canada

Alibhai's above post
On September 6th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, brother Alibhai, I think many of us who have read or will read the transcripts of the cross examinations are and will be shocked, appalled and very hurt...Some of the things said there are totally flabbergasting...
And I do believe, as you do, that Mowla Bapa was by the side of the defendants during that cross examination...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Farmans delivered by the Imam during Darbar are not Farmans?
On September 5th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

We are all challenged with physical and intellectual problems in our lives from time to time. Imam in the London GJ Darbar said there is a lot more which needs to be done. Imam reminded us that it will not be a smooth ride all along. And that there will be a some bumps along the way. And that this is life and we must accept it. Imam also assured us that even though there will be some bumps along the way we will have vehicles that can ride over such bumps easily.
The lawsuit is one of such big bumps and the vehicle is guidance from the Imam (i.e. Farmans/dialogue/conciliation/unity/constitution/institutions, etc. etc.). In any dispute between murids or leaders the vehicle provided by the Imam is dialogue, negotiation, conciliation and arbitration.
Maybe there is another interpretation. If so I hope one of our scholars or Alwaez will respond and help to clarify. They report to ITREB or IIS. The head of all those institutions is Dr Sachedina. Maybe they can also help with the following.

According to a brief reading of the cross examinations, Dr Sachedina believes Farmans delivered by the Imam are not farmans until and unless these are edited and then released and distributed by ITREB. He is head of ITREB. Dr Sachedina says he does not follow Farmans of previous Imam’s. So Dr Sachedina is saying that when our Imam received his Imamat, all Farmans of previous Imam’s are not to be followed by us and there is no continuity of guidance and the tawil and the talim of the final message. Farmans of previous Imam’s are read in Jamat Khana’s, taught in Bait ul ilm’s used by Waezeens etc. This is surely the very essence of our Tariquiah, constitution and Ismailism.! Which Dr Sachedina should know protect practice and follow as head of all ITREB’s and the IIS Boards.

I hope that there is or will be an institutional consultative process and this lawsuit can be settled quickly.

[admin link: Are Farmans to be followed? ]

* United Kingdom

@Bloglaw
On September 6th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

I would like to add to my posting below, Imam Ali's Sermons, Letters and Sayings (Peak of Eloquence Nahjul Balagha), has been published by some Muslim brothers, and I don't understand as to why our previous Imam's Farmans are not be printed for the Jamat. Thank You.

* Canada

@Bloglaw
On September 5th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

As per Dr. Sachedina, Farmans delivered by the Imam during Darbar are not Farmans, until and unless edited and released and distributed by ITREB? How can anyone edit Farmans made by the Imam in the Darbar, are they authorized to do so? All Farmans of previous Imam are not to be followed by us? Our Beloved Hazar Imam has on many occasions referred to Farmans made by His Grandfather (Imam SultanMuhammad Shah). I just don't understand that, Farmans made by previous Imams should not be allowed to be read in JKs., or printed for the Jamat. Our Holy Book Quran, is 1400 years old, and many of us read it. Even in our Du'a we have Surahs from the Quran. Thank you.

* Canada

Dr Sachedina must know
On September 6th, 2010 Concerned Momineen (not verified) says:

Dr Sachedina must know Farmans delivered by the Imam become Farmans when they are first uttered by the Imam. He may have meant Farmans cannot be distributed until after the Imam has reviewed the text and approved it. If so at that level you expect the leader to communicate what they mean even though English may be a second language.

English may be arguably Imam's second language. If Imam is not comfortable in giving Farmans in English, surely he will have no problem to deliver them in French. Nor would the Jamat have any problem if Imam did so. However Imam studied in English, a Harvard graduate and has given guidance to the Jamat on the importance of English, Therefore It is is offensive and very discourteous to say that the Imam may not be saying exactly what he means because he thinks in French and speaks in English. Dr Sachedina should clarify and apologise to the Imam if he has not..

What is also very surprising is a top ex leader Mr A Bhaloo says he is not sure that a farman by the Imam today would prevail over the constitution. He says he is not sure because he is not a constitutional expert. He is a murid and a top leader. He knows the Imam's prerogative & authority. Any farman by the Imam can superceed any earleir Farman on any matter. Hence is Imam e Zaman Imam. It may be A Bhaloo was more concerned about the legality of his answer but then he had the best lawyer guiding him. This question to him could not have been unexpected either. What is wrong in saying yes the Imam can override or superceed any farmans made in the past including any change in the constitution. What is also confusing is that the Imam did not ask him to be a witness. Dr Sachedina did and saw Mr Bhaloo's draft affidavit.

* United Arab Emirates

Darbar Farmans are not farmans??
On September 5th, 2010 Jenny (not verified) says:

So when Hazar Imam says, play dandia and have biriyani and samosas, the Jamat should not rejoice?, I remember in one Golden Jubilee Darbar, the Jamati Leadership had biriyani prepared right after the Farman; Is this then considered Na-Farmani?

Ya Mowla tun Madad Kar, Hakikati samaj baksh.

* Canada

Re: Jenny's above post
On September 6th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Ameen, ameen, ameen!!! Anè amnè badhanè dheeraj aap ! Ameen!

* Canada

Response to Yasmin and Bloglaw
On September 5th, 2010 Amin Hussain (not verified) says:

I know you mention the Quran, how about Maula Ali,s Kalam, they are Firmans as well, Imam Mustansirbillah book are also firmans, Imam Jaffer Imam Baqir Firmans are also Firmans and you mentioned Imam Sultan Mohd Shah. The Batin Firmans never change only the Zahir firmans are changed from Imam to Imam, such are migration from a country or performing forms can change and language may change i.e from Gujrati to English for example, not the essence of our religion.

* United States

There is always a crisis before the reforms happen!
On September 5th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Dr Sachedina's cross examination is very disturbing with respect to the Farmans.
I dont think he even knows the defination of a Farman. To say that Hazar Imam's farmans made in Deedars and Darbars are not farmans?How apalling? I cannot believe he said that.Rest of his answers lose credibility and relevance with the believers after that notion expressed by him.
Now we know why Hazar Imam is allowing the law suit to continue.This is his "Leela"
We must be ready for more revelations.

* United States

New Material Posted on the Lawsuit
On September 5th, 2010 heritage says:

Online Book that gathers court materials as well as articles that are currently available for the ongoing 2010 Lawsuit:
Copyright Lawsuit 2010: Online Book of All available Materials

News on cross-examinations:
Copyright Lawsuit: CROSS-EXAMINATIONS confirm that the case is not authentic - 2010-09-04
Copyright Lawsuit: CROSS_EXAMINATIONS Table of Contents - 2010-09-04

Cross examination Transcripts:
2010-08-09 CROSS-EXAMINATIONS for Summary Judgement Motions

Enjoy Surfing Your Heritage!

New material posted on the lawsuit (Sept. 5)
On September 5th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Dear admin,
Thanks a million for posting this material!
Would you know what will happen now ? Can the lawsuit be dropped? Could you possibly find out for all those of who are so concerned over this business and find this waiting period so hard to bear? Can the members of the jamat do anything?
Sorry for burdening you. Thank you again.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

What next
On September 7th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

The jamats should just remain calm, Mawla does not get involved and as a result the cross-examination revealed the true nature of his close and top leaders. He wanted the jamats to know the true nature of his top leaders and more to come. Remain positive.

The next step will be arguing the motions and a judge will review the evidence and make his ruling.

* Canada

Concerned's above post
On September 8th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
With regards to your last sentence in your above post, does it mean that the farman book will have to be brought to the judge???? Or can he make his ruling without examining the farman book?
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

The Book will not be
On September 8th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The Book will not be presented as Exhibit to the Court. The judgement will be given by the Judge without seeing the Golden Edition Farmans. Obviously the Judge will wonder why the Golden Edition has not been presented as it is the subject of the whole case. But I think he will understand that none of the parties are keen on presenting it because this is not the usual literary work and the Imam is not the average person either.

Farman book as evidence
On September 8th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

The photo of the book and index has been filed, as has photos of all earlier books, the book might be shown to the judge without making it an exhibit just to give the judge an understanding of what is the subject of the litigation. I think this is how the case might proceed

* Canada

Reply of Librarian Umed and of Concerned
On September 9th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you to both of you for replying to my question re: whether the farman book will have to be shown to the judge. I do hope both of you are right and that it will not be "dissected" by the judge.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Human being is an Ashrafe Makhlukat
On September 3rd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

@Mr Allaudin Alibhai in answer to your comment of Aug 31st

We as Human beings are endowed with intellect and brain.
In any confusing situation it is going to run and think critically which is important and vital.
Healthy dialogue and dissecting the situation to search for the truth is a God given gift and a mandate.
Mawla is all knowing and Almighty yet he has always encouraged healthy dialogues.
I do not think there is anything wrong in having a dialogue as long as we do not call names or disrespect anyone.
Since Jamat never gets to express their emotions and opinions regarding leadership this kind of forum should be wecomed by good leaders if they are conscious of their performance and want to do what is best all the time for Jamat and Hazar Imam.
Leaders are not the only ones who offer time and money there are plenty of hidden Sevadhari murids who are not seen with everyone's eyes but Mawla feels them with his heart.(Mawla has often said that in his Firman).
Just because someone gives of time and money it does not automatically qualify one to become proud or negligent.
Not even the ones who give of their knowledge which is a even bigger gift than wealth.
Mawla acknowledges the honesty, love and sincerity with which the service is offered however small it may seem to someone.

* United States

Mr. Alibhai Jiwani's answer to my comment of Aug 31
On September 4th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Dear Mr. Alibhai Jiwani,

I am really taken aback by what you say in the answer to my comment.

You mention confusing situation.
There is nothing confusing in this case.

A case has been filed and it is proceeding through the court with the
defendants presenting their case and affidavits, proofs on the
signature etc., and the
plaintiff's team submitting affidavits etc.

What is there to discuss or search? We will not find any answers
until the case has been fully heard in the court or dismissed
or a settlement outside the court done.
It may even be done behind the closed doors.
Fueling speculations leads to idle GOSSIP and BOGOTRY.

As far as seva and funds are concerned, I have never said that
only the Leaders of the community make financial
contributions.
Please, I request you to read what I have written, a bit carefully
and see if I have really said that.

If you feel that the Jamat never gets a chance to express opinions,
then you should send a petition signed by several members of the
Jamat (who are not happy) to Mowlana Hazar Imam to that
effect rather than "hanging the Ismaili Community's dirty
laundry in public" and having a go at the whole Ismaili Leadership
without any specific names which you should present to Mowlana
Hazar Imam and not to this FORUM.

This FORUM has no mandate to solve your problems with
the Leadership, but it can inflame and invoke slander
and gossip and unfair accusations towards the leaders
who are (probably) not on this forum to defend themselves.
Some of the appointees of Mowla do have that mandate and
perhaps your problems with the leaders can be solved through
mediation by them. Perhaps you should get in touch with the
Leaders directly. They are surely listed in the Ismaili
Directory, or are they not? Let us hope so.

Do you really think and believe that I don't know that there ARE plenty of
hidden sevadaris who serve silently the year round, day and night?
ARE YOU the ONLY ONE WHO KNOWS IT?
ARE YOU THE JUDGE OF WHAT SHOULD BE and WHAT SHOULD
NOT BE WELCOME BY THE LEADERS?
Is it not MOWLA who decides what the Leaders should do or not do?
Isn't MOWLA who judges and rewards the sevadaris?

Mowla may give a Title to someone you and I may feel does not deserve
the Title, but it is only Mowla who decides and knows whose seva has
been greater or smaller. He, I agree with you, loves and blesses
every sevadari; and (may I add) every momin.

I also agree with you that "Mawla acknowledges the honesty, love and
sincerity with which the service is offered however small it may seem
to someone". No question about that. I am with you there and
that is the very point I am trying to make to you, but you contradict
yourself by blaming the Leaders.
Is the service of the Leaders (even if it is very trivial in your opinion)
not accepted by Mowla? Do you mean Mowla is not happy with it?
Has Mowla expressed it to you or anyone whom you trust
and then that person has conveyed it to you?
In that case, please let us know who that Leaders is, with
whom Mowla is not satisfied.
It is important to have facts.
Will it help if you hang(not physically) the Leaders publicly?

Please do not generalise and paint every LEADER as a proud
and negligent person. It is not fair on them. Does not Mowla
feel their service and them in His Heart too? Are they not also
Mowla's Murids like you and I?

My 2nd point is that we have no mandate to speculate on the
subject of the Suit filed by Mowla and what the defendants have
presented to the court so far, as far as this case is concerned.
And, therefore, we would be doing ourselves and the community
at large and Mowla and the defendants a disfavour by speculating
about this. That is why I request everybody to wait and see.

Finally, Sir, my name is spelled with one L (i.e. Alaudin) and not
two Ls.

My prayers for MERCY of Allah and Mowla's Blessings on
all of us. Amen.

Thank you,

Humbly Yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Times have changed. Imam
On September 3rd, 2010 Valimohhamed (not verified) says:

Times have changed. Imam has given guidance on the coming changes since 1986. Leaders have talked the talk but need to also walk the talk of dialogue. collective inclusion, meritocracy, & pluralism.within the Jamat. Sadly this case also highlights a need and what is needed from the Leaders and the Jamat.

* Singapore

Constructive and disciplined required in our criticism
On September 3rd, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat, Alibhai Jiwani! Mental power and common sense go hand in hand, provided one is able to understand the rational of this life. It is not difficult to comprehend and understand a conflict and why it makes us so uncomfortable. The conflict can be resolved and the disagreement can be managed. A calm mind will not react to any unfortunate situation without the assessment. Any tough situations can be effectively resolved by effective communications.

Any Ismaili Muslim who wants to perform the seva; he/she can participate in seva. The only requirement will be to come forward to render seva in any capability. Here we have to understand that we have to follow the criterion and prerequisite and the type of seva one is interested to perform. The institutional leaderships are normally by appointment; this does not mean one has to be well off to warrant a seat in our institution. Mowlana Hazar Imam will accept seva of any Ismaili Muslim when the seva is offered with sincerity, love, loyalty, and devotion.

I personally think that we should be constructive and disciplined with our criticism. Any kind of condemnation, denunciation, and accusation does not suit us; simply because Mowlana Hazar Imam has said in His Pronunciation: “NOBODY IS PERFECT EXCEPT ALLAH.” Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

* Canada

It is my pleasure to see the
On September 4th, 2010 K Punja (not verified) says:

It is my pleasure to see the respect given by everyone in your discussions on this website. What strikes me most is why the leaders are not meeting their 2 brothers together with the local Mukhi Sahebans, Chairmans and Presidents ? It is very sad indeed that when you can do something and you should do it, you do not do it. My prayers are for everyone and to the website management we appreciate.

* India

Look for major news update
On September 2nd, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Look for major news update on this subject within a couple of days here on this page.

Re: upcoming updates
On September 4th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Many of us are anxiously waiting, waiting, and waiting...It is sometimes distressing that, despite updates and the hopes these bring in their wake, we do not seem to be any closer to a resolution or settlement than we were in, was it April??? These are really trying times for some us...
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

I am looking, waiting and
On September 4th, 2010 vallimihammed (not verified) says:

I am looking, waiting and anxious.

* India

Prayers of Great Night
On September 2nd, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

The Great Night of Laital-Ul-Qadr:

As it was advised me and as it was my sincere resolution, I increased and recited many prayers in form of Salah, made Zikr, seeking forgiveness from My Lord! For all my brothers and sisters around the world, I pray Allah and Mowla Bapa to fulfill their needs…. And keep all us in the right way of Siratal-Mustaquim!
And among the things and wishes, I done prayers, done long and sincere dua’s for the end of this sad, very sad lawsuit! Ramadan is the month of prayers, of pardon, of generosity, tolerance…! And to all Angels who listened to me this night, I tool “Please, tell to Sachedina, to Bhaloo, to Tazdin, to Alnaj the importance of brotherhood in ismailism, and they do not ignore the sincere wishes, prayers of many, many ismailis around the world that it is urgent, really necessary that together, they first meet, speak with serenity… with the help of Mukhis Saheb, Chairmen and Leaders of different Institutions and together they humbly ask for a Mulaquat with Mowla Bapa and stop this sad lawsuit! And we all around the world, with Itreb, Mukhi Saheb helps… we all decide to a special night of Sataro for this!
Our community does not need this lawsuit! Mowla Bapa loves His Murids and it is our deepest prayers that He will arrange in His office this inutile [futile], catastrophic dispute! Mowla is merciful!

May Allah accept my prayers
Ya Ali Madat, mohez nato
Ps I am very sorry for my broken english

* France

Your "Prayers of Great Night"
On September 7th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Sir,

Ya Ali Madad.

It is very Noble of you to pray for the good of all.

I hope and I am sure that Mowla is listening to you and us all
and in due course he will take the actions as he sees fit on
this matter.
We have to be patient.

Meanwhile, my spiritual brother, keep up with your prayers
and kepp up with the noble thoughts of good to happen
to all.

May Mowla Bless you and your family and friends with lots of Barakat
Good Health, Long Life, Peace and Happiness at all times. Amen.

My prayers are there for everybody too.

Best Wishes,

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Le mot ci-dessus de Nato Mohez
On September 3rd, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Votre message est tout à fait compréhensible; n'ayez crainte, on vous aura compris. Votre prière semble venir du fond de votre coeur. Ça fait des mois qu'on prie pour la résolution de toute cette affaire ! Espérons que la magie de Lailat ul-Qadr résolve cette crise. Ameen.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Ameen.
On September 2nd, 2010 Vallimohammed (not verified) says:

Ameen.

* India

Affidavit of Dr. Shafik Sachedina etc...
On August 30th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Ya Ali Madad folks.

I bumped into the affidavit today and thought that it would be good for all to read this affidavit.
The link to it is:

Affidavit of Sachedina

I hope that Mowla and his Murshids will come to conclusion soon.

Meanwhile, we should pray and have patience and abstain from
writing speculative articles that only lead to more confusion
and perhaps even pain to some people closely involved.

I am of the opinion that we have to respect all the Murshids of Mowla
and all living creatures on this earth, and leave it to Mowla to deal
with this.

Having said the above, I feel that there is absolutely no harm in
keeping up to date with events of this case, as it has already
hit the headlines here on Ismaili Net.

Seek, find and be informed.

Best Wishes,

Humbly,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

A true momin's faith will always undergo testings!
On August 29th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

Alibhai Jiwani narrated an event related to Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi who has to suffer obstacles and hardships just after his arrival at Cairo and during his initial stay there at the hands of very senior leaders of Imam Mustansir Billah. There is no indication in the history that the Imam intervened or that he castigated his leaders for inhuman treatment of his future Hujja. Though later on, after a couple years or so, he was granted highest posts of Hujja as well as vizier of Fatimid caliphate; both these posts he held until his death in later part of 1078.

Exactly similar hardships and obstacles were also experienced by Hasan-bin-Sabbah during his later part of the stay at Cairo. The event runs as follows:

Hasan-bin-Sabbah arrived in Cairo early in 1078 when Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi was vizier. Hasan-bin-Sabbah was well received by Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi and stayed there for 3 years and visited Imam Mustansir Billah at least once when it was revealed to him by the Imam himself that his successor would be Nizar. Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi died in later part of 1078, and all powerful Badr al Jamali succeeded him as vizier, who became jealous of Hasan-bin-Sabbah and banished him from Cairo. Imam did not intervene in this case as well.

We all know that later on this same wonderful Ismaili hero and missionary single handedly planned and succeeded in establishing Nizari Ismaili rule in northern Iran( at and around Almut)

We can not understand every action of Imams. Why? The simple reply is: we, human being are gifted with only limited intelligence( Aqle juzz). And only for this reason that most of the historians could not understand many decisions and actions of our Imams Al Hakim bi Amr Allah (16th Imam) and Rukn al Din Khurshah( 27th Imam) and hence heavily criticized those decisions and actions.

Excellent article
On September 7th, 2010 Concerned (not verified) says:

Our Imam has urged us to read our history, and your article is good. I urge you to write short articles (easier to read and remember) on such historical points.

* Canada

Re: above post of Kasamali
On September 4th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, in those remote historical cases of the dais mentioned in the posts (Hassan bin Sabah...) the Imams did not step in or get involved in any apparent way.
And it is the same in recent history: it is said that the leader who banned the distribution of sukhrit in the London High profile Jamat Khana (was it to keep the carpet clean?) (I don't know if sukhrit is distributed in other Jamat Khanas of London) was never asked to come back on his decision; the same goes for the leader in Canada (Vancouver) who, in the nineties was it? banned the distribution of any juraa with any nuts in them (almonds, cashews) out of "compassion" for one child who had a severe allergy to peanuts (and peanuts were not usually in Khushyaali suko mèvo juraa): it does not appear that that decision maker was called to attention. So, to this day, the only time Canadian mureeds have "suko mèvo" is when other mureed who have come back from deedar elsewhere than in Canada and share the suko mèvo they received at that deedar with their family and friends...
And the leadership wants the jamat to BELIEVE that Hazer Imam is the one suing a mureed for doing his best to allow the jamat to have access to His farman...And the saddest thing is that, because there is such deficit of religious knowledge in the jamat (and the leadership), most of the jamat does believe this incredible, false information...This is indeed the age of mass-misleading!
Ya Mowla, tun amaara badha upar rahèm karto rahèjè!! Ameen.

* Canada

Sad
On August 30th, 2010 Amin Hussain (not verified) says:

It makes me sad to see the entire case is going, I have visited this site many years ago to do some research and was able to get the information easily and I appreciated that while the same information was not available from other sources. I ponder on the reasons why this is happening, and came up with some reasons will share with everyone:
a) Deficyit of Religious Knowlege among our leaders, they are highly educated in a secular education while limited deep knowledge of our religion.
b) Intellectual vanity among some highly educated leaders and jamati members, not humble at all.
c) Lack of communication between the Jamat and leadership, it would help if they organize some meeting similar to town hall meetings.
d) Our leaders are good individually but not as net work.
e) The Firman are only read for 5 minutes in JK and are the few and same ones over and over
f) The sharing of meaning of the Firmans are prohibited and not allowed.
g) We have always been influenced by the outside sources whether was the time of Cairo, Almut or even now, Hazar Imam always said build bridges not the cross them.
h) We should always learn to resign from the position if we cause difficulty for the Jamat or the Imam and move a side so new leaders can take place and does not matter whether we right or wrong, this happens in all civilized western society and we should learn from them.
I) The Jamati leaders should go through management training in this field and not use their management style used in Corporate world which is ruthless at times.
J) Do not look down to people who are less educated in leadership or Jamat

And I am not saying that we are perfect as human beings, only God is perfect bet we should try our best.

* United States

Above post of Amin Hussein
On September 1st, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you for your post, brother Amin Hussein: it is heartwarming to know that at least one more person knows and remembers that Hazer Imam said to build bridges BUT NOT TO CROSS THEM.
And I could not agree more about your first point, i.e. the deficit in religious knowledge; the least evidence of this is that the leadership (and 95 % of the jamat alas) still has not realized that Hazer Imam could never sue a murid whose bayyat He has accepted. If we had basic religious knowledge, none of the other shortcomings you pointed out in b, c, d, e, h, and j would arise...
I hope that many of us will pray tonight (Lailat ul-Qadr) for the resolution of this unprecedented crisis according to Mowla Bapa's wish. Insh'Allah.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Abdullah
On September 3rd, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

I do not understand the phrase "BUT NOT CROSS THEM" with respect to bridges.
The bridges are made for back and forth crossing or communicating.
Did you mean "not break them?"

* United States

Answer to Alibhai Jiwani's above question
On September 3rd, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Only Hazer Imam knows what He had meant when He had said that sentence in a farman made in Tanzania, was it in
1988 ? in Moshi, I think (if you have the KIM perhaps you could look up in the index to confirm the date and the city...). All I know, brother Alibhai, is that each one of us, we all have the freedom (and alas the terrible responsibility!) of interpreting the farman of the Imam of the Time, and SO LONG AS WE ARE SINCERE in our interpretations we are not "blamed" for any errors we make in our interpretation...So, the way I interpret that sentence may differ from that of someone else, and no one can say that he or she has the right interpretation...And, to answer your last sentence and question, no, I do not believe He had meant "not break them". I would not dare to write here the meaning I give to the words "Do not cross them", for fear of being unable to express myself adequately and therefore of being misunderstood... I hope you forgive me, brother Alibhai.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Building Bridges - Extracts from Farman
On September 4th, 2010 Jenny (not verified) says:

March 17, 1981 Kisumu Kenya,
" There has been a tendency in some parts of the Third World when the Imam has said, Yes, you may build bridges, not only to build the bridges but to walk across them. This is not what the Imam has said. I have said, if you seek to build bridges, I have nothing against your building bridges. But I have also said, don't cross them, unless there are special reasons to do so..."

* Canada

Re: Jenny's above post
On September 8th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Thank you, sister Jenny, for finding for us the paragraph from which the phrase "do not cross them" is taken.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Answer to Abdullah and Alibhai
On September 4th, 2010 Amin Hussain (not verified) says:

I know this question is not pose to me, however I thought share it, Imam Sultan Mohd Shah once said that read my Firmans, interpret them and share the interpretation with other ismailis, having said that in my understanding of the Do Not Cross the Bridge does not mean break the bridge but just as in the worldly sense there are bridges between countries and if one crosses the bridge is only allowed to stay as a visitor and must return back to his our country similarly one meaning of this Firman is to learn to respect other religions, cultures. people but remain strong to your own ismaili faith and to your Imam of the time.

* United States

@ Alibhai Jiwani
On August 29th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

When Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi was given audience by the Imam Mustansir Billah the first time, he was transfixed for sometime as he experienced bright light of prophet hood and of Maula Ali. Although all others presents there did not experienced anything at all. This was nothing but ‘Noorani Deedar’ granted only to Al Muayyad Din-al-Shirazi by the Imam Himself.
A similar event took place during 8th Avatar, Lord Krishna, to Arjuna (one of the five Pandu brothers) at the battlefield. Here too, all others present in the battlefield saw nothing unusual. They just saw that Krishna was talking to Arjuna.

Hurting a Momin is the same as hurting the Imam!
On August 29th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Any Momin who hurts another momin is hurting the Imam and should go with humility & beg forgiveness from that momin. 105 years ago the Imam also directed his murids never to speak ill of any Momin OR any other person
[Farman Mubarak - Kalam-i Imam-i Mubin, Farman #125, Nairobi, 06-10-1905]
"Keeping the tongue pure means never to backbite or speak ill of any mu'min or any other person. By this way, keep your tongue pure. If it ever happens that you come to know of any shortcoming in any mu'min, then do not, by judging him, reveal that shortcoming by your tongue. To judge any person or any mu'min is not your job.

If your heart (dil) assures you that you do back'bite, that you do betray someone, that you do speak lies, then restrain your heart from doing such evil acts. You go at once to the person whom you have betrayed, whom you have back'bitten, about whom you have spoken ill. Whether that person is in jamatkhana or anywhere else, go there, and with humility and open-heart confess your sin of betrayal, of enmity and of any type that you may have committed, and beg forgiveness from him.

Howsoever strong may be the faith (iman) of someone, even then, if he hurts any mu'min, it would be equivalent to having hurt me. Pain inflicted on a momin, strikes in my heart like an arrow. I hold my pious mu'min dearly in my eyes. If anyone hurts such a mu'min, it would be as if he has hurt me in my eyes."

* United Kingdom

Did Imam file the lawsuit!
On August 28th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Thank you Believer. It would be of interest if you can list your additional reasons. I may agree with you after I read the transcripts of the cross examinations when available.
Temporal activities are conducted in many organizations by powers of attorney and delegated authorities. In Imam's case as he is extremely busy he gives delegated authority and powers of attorney. So is Dr Sachedina who also runs a substantial organization in addition to heading all the Institutions. Imam cannot also cannot physically personally sign all letters because of the sheer volume of them. This would be by delegated authority & maybe electronically. May be this is also so in this case.
Can in Canada someone with a Power of attorney initiate and file a lawsuit in someone’s else’s name? Would lawyers act ?. This doesn’t not explain why anyone would sign or need to sign-use the Imam's personal signature of course. Unless they had delegated authority to do so.
Is it possible that the Imam was given a report which was factually incomplete or incorrect in which the leaders and the LIF all agreed & recommended that a lawsuit should be filed. Imam may have agreed based on that report and facts. Imam knowing of course and knowing also that the leaders will know after the lawsuit and will come back to the Imam. Imam is maybe therefore waiting for them to give him a full, correct and complete report and recommendations. Even though Imam knows, and may have read all the legal documents and aware of some of the comments on this and other websites.

* United Kingdom

Did Imam File The Lawsuit?
On September 6th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

YAM Bloglaw,

I think in light of the cross-examination transcripts, all your above questions to me have been amply answered.

Did the Imam file the lawsuit?
On August 28th, 2010 Amin (not verified) says:

Here are more reasons why the Imam may not have been the instigator of this lawsuit:

The Imam is a sophisticated "player" in the world scene and knows the power of both positive and negative media. Would he have risked filing a lawsuit before a Canadian judge, with all the uncertainty that the judge could potentially be biased against Muslims or the Imamat? Or knowing that the lawsuit would bring up issues of Ismaili thariqah for all the world to debate? Or that the Imam would be required to file affidavits and be cross-examined about the Divine source of his firmans?

I don't think so? And if you do, you underestimate the Imam.

* Seychelles

Did the Imam file the lawsuit? (Gossip/Speculation)
On August 30th, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Sir,

You are out of order and just giving idle gossips a momentum
only worthy of contempt, by speculating on the Divinity
of our beloved Hazar Imam.

However, I hope that you have read the affidavit of Vazier Dr. Shafik Sachedina
Sachedina Affidavit and exhibits.pdf

and also all the material pertaining to this case published on
internet by both sides.

Best Wishes,

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Did Imam know?
On August 28th, 2010 Abdul (not verified) says:

@Bloglaw

What if the Imam does not know everything? What if the Imam is like the the Prophet Mohamed, having no divine powers, except as a Messenger of Allah?

What if the Imam is the best Guide at all times, but needs to use the same administrative networks as other leaders, to run the Jamaat?

Will that help to explain many of the issues in this lawsuit?

* Seychelles

Question to Beleiver by
On August 29th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Question to Beleiver by Bloglaw was I think what additional information or reasons were & should have been communicated to Leaders and the Imam when or before the lawsuit was instigated ?

* United Arab Emirates

@Bloglaw
On August 28th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

We all can understand the meaning of delegated responsibiity to Dr Sachedina.
In that case he should have just honestly agreed or given affidavid that he is authorised to sign for Hazar Imam and he has signed for Hazar Imam on his directives
This would be completely acceptable.
Hazar Imam when asked or even if not asked if indeed Lawsuit was initiated by his direct approval would have readily said he authorised the leader to sign for him . Then all this questions of forgeries would be totally irrelevant!
If Hazar Imam authorised any leader to sign for him due to whatever reason no one will ever Q it.
But court must know that.

* United States

Imam does not interfere with
On August 27th, 2010 Bloglaw (not verified) says:

Imam does not interfere with choices we make but guides his murids. If this was not so neither our Imam’s nor we as murids would have any trails, tribulations, trepidations or choices which are all necessary for our material an spiritual development and advancement respectively .

It is fundamental that there is no conflict between our faith and our intellect. Imams have given us guidance on how all murids can do so. When seeking clarity about particular matters of faith and temporal matters where there are conflicts questions & dialogue are discouraged and conformity is encouraged and is practiced.

On temporal matters this stifles debate, dialogue and development of our potential as individuals and collectively. If creativity, guidance & change are not embraced then like in the last dacade or more, we are more likely to be educating the Jamat and especially our future leaders away from rather than towards intellectual development.

In the constitution the Imam has states clearly that Imam continues the Tawil and Talim of the final message (Quran) and to guide the murids. Imam also goes on to specify guidance of spiritual matters of faith to the path of spiritual enlightenment AND of temporal matters of the intellectual development of our potential.

(B) In accordance with Shia doctrine, tradition, and interpretation of history, the Holy Prophet (S.A.S.) designated and appointed his cousin and son-in-law Hazrat Mawlana Ali Amiru-l-Mu'minin (Alayhi-s-salam), to be the first Imam to continue the Ta'wil and Ta'lim of Allah's final message and to guide the murids, and proclaimed that the Imamat should continue by heredity through Hazrat Mawlana Ali (A.S.) and his daughter Hazrat Bibi Fatimat-az-Zahra, Khatun-i-Jannat Alayha-s-salam).

(F) Historically and in accordance with Ismaili tradition, the Imam of the time is concerned with spiritual advancement as well as improvement of the quality of life of his murids. The Imam's Ta'lim lights the murids' path to spiritual enlightenment and vision. In temporal matters, the Imam guides the murids, and motivates them to develop their potential.

Regarding this lawsuit, would this lawsuit have been filed if the Imam had known the following;

1 LIF were not consulted, nor ITREB or IIS, as Boards (They were briefed after the lawsuit was filed according Dr S S’s affidavit),
2 Many Farman books had been published since 1992 before this Farman book in 2009. The leaders and the Jamat was aware for 18 years.
3 Farman books were distributed only to Ismailies.
4 Alnaz was not approached before the lawsuit was filed,
5 The historical and current full seva profile of the defendants and their families (Incl. Maji Mukhi Saheb)
6 All possible avenues and opportunities for internal conciliation, compromise and settlement were not fully explored and fully exhausted.

Dr Sachedina will have briefed the Imam and there will be an internal report/summary prepared before the letters were issued and before the lawsuit was filed. This would have appropriate recommendations and an impact review of a lawsuit. Was this a consultative process and the report - minutes reflected that process. In this consultative process would any leader have recommended to file a lawsuit if they had known all the above. (Head of IIS, ITREB, President of Canada, Kenya and LIF - as a body ).

* United Kingdom

Logical Fallacy?
On August 27th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

Dear Bloglaw,

Your argument would be much more clear and palatable if, instead of saying:
"would this lawsuit have been filed if the Imam had known the following",
You would instead say:
"The Imam obviously did not file this Lawsuit because of the following"

And then, all 6 points above make sense, and you can probably add dozens more credible reasons that would support this point of view.

It is becoming clearer that the Imam is not intervening because he doesn't need to - whoever is the real plaintiff is discrediting himself more and more as time goes by.

What went wrong?
On August 27th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

In case of unprecedented event if Hazar Imam indeed was (hypothetically )angry on these 2 murids who printed firmans without written permission and decided to punish them by striking a lawsuit in the Canadian court room, What must our religious institutions and Jamat should have done?
Should we not all the boards and entire leadership and Jamat get to gather and present a plea "Mehmani" to Hazar Imam to please not get angry on these 2 of his spiritual children and let us find an amicable solution and Mawla please forgive? Mehmani works like magic in my life!
At the same time if Jamati Mukhi of respective JK would have spoken with these 2 individuals like parents and dissuaded them to stop distributing firman because our Mawla is upset , I am sure they would have stopped.Jamati Mukhis sometimes forget they have such a previlaged and impressive position with true devotees!
If that did not work how if LIF would have made a big anouncement in the world jamatkhanas to make one Muskilasan tasbih or satada bakshamni Tasbih for resolution of the situation to alleviate any pain to Mawla ?, If not 15 million, 1 million tasbihs of Muskilasan invoking Ali would have instantly gone into action.Do you know what is the power of this?
Mawla is rahem rahimi!
He would have forgiven and listened to our plea for sure! And he would have smiled and thought to himself at least my golden jubilee firmans are working on my murids!! Good job!
Have we lost faith in our very own powerful "Ya Ali tu rahem kar , Ya Mawla tu fazal kar" tasbih? I can understand we do not have faith in our own Arbitration board which is for this purpose but to lose faith in the very essense of our faith which is invokation of Ya Ali in case of difficulty is bypassing a big important step.
I am sure if Dr Sachedina would have presented this situation first to aTarika board Chairman he would have recommended as a first remedy before a lawsuit which involves way too much.. of everyone including our Imam
So have we failed as a Jamat and Leaders or these 2 insane individuals?
We want to shift the guilt to these 2 fellows and call them names to free ourselves of any responsibility?
Tomorrow I will write a small story how a leader cooled down 47th Imam's anger and obtained the blessings for his entire generation!

* United States

Mr Jiwani; You are right
On August 28th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

Mr Jiwani; You are right except that;

Imam has created institutions, Boards and the Constitution encompassing both the spiritual and the material. These are all conduits the Imam has chosen through & by which ALL Imam’s guidance and directives are disseminated and implemented. Therefore these Institutions are the very essence of Ismailism & our tariquah.

Imam has entrusted leaders with responsibilities for these institutions. If any of the leaders does not follow guidance or have faith in any of the institutions or the Arbitration Board, then in fact they do not have any faith in the Imam’s Institution. Therefore it follows that they do not have faith in Imam’s guidance or directives.

I am sorry but to that extent I disagree with you.

Did Dr Sachedina really not inform, consult or involve the local Mukhi Saheban’s, or the local Tariqah Boards/council members for the areas where the 2 murids are living ? He surely must have and if not this must be an exception ?

I agree, hope and pray that we should all be praying for the leaders and the 2 murids.

* United Arab Emirates

Mr. Jiwani; You are right
On August 31st, 2010 Alaudin Alibhai (not verified) says:

Shafik Sachedina is also a Murid and a human being.

There are times when we all make mistakes or do not ralise that
disregarding even trivial matters can, in future, dire
consequences.

I have great respect for our leaders, although I am one the very
open critics and say what I think and also take them on.

Let us remember, that all the sevadaris devote a lot of their time
and some even make great financial sacrifices for the benefit
of our Jamats internationally and Mowla is indeed very happy
with them.

What we should now do, is give Dr. Sachedina a chance to
defend himself in the court, with regard to accusations
by the defendants, and also give the defendants a
chance to in orderly manner go through this case
and wait for the verdict.

It is not at all appropriate that many of us are speculating
"this and that" and also put "what if" questions when
no one really (except for Mowla) knows what the real
truth is.

We should all abstein from SPECULATIONS.

Let us pray, as many have said, for all involved
and may Mowla Bless all of us. Amen.

Thank you.

Humbly yours,

Alaudin Alibhai
Stockholm
Sweden

* Sweden

Mowla is happy, not angry at
On August 28th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Mowla is happy, not angry at these 2 Murids. Nothing is out of hands. We can see that Mowla needed these documents, forgery expertise etc.. to be in the legal system so that the people forging His signature will think twice in the future before doing illegal activities. Once all the documents, Mowla wants, will be in Court, then only He may intervene or even let the legal system issue a judgment that the defendants were right and the Imam never allowed or instructed this lawsuit.

Do Mr Tajdin or Mr Alnaz stand to gain anything ?
On August 26th, 2010 Momin (not verified) says:

The defendants are clearly not defending to win or to make a profit. They are seeking guidance direct from their Imam because for 18 years they have been publishing and distributing their books of farmans to Ismailies. Not for making profit but for love and devotion for their Imam and for the the jamat.

And, they believe they have direct permission from their Imam to do so. They also beleive it is the Imam's wish for his farmans which are delivered for his murids to be available to all his murids. Leaders have also been aware for 18 years. Mr Tajdin had meetings with the leaders & the IIS regarding other related publications. Mr Tajdin published his latest book of all farmans in 2009. He offered 2000 copies free of cost to the Jamat. Mr Jiwa also did not make a profit from distributing the books. The books were distributed to Ismailies. The motive was not to make a profit but the love and devotion for their Imam.

Mr Tajdin has a website where he shares invaluable resource and knowledge which are free, not commercially sponsored and which have been used by many leaders, scholars, murids and Waizeens. This requires considerable amounts of time, money, resources, and knowledge. This is again not done to make a profit but for love and devotion for the Imam.

Mr Tajdin, Mr Jiwa and their families are known sevadari’s, appointees, and are now having to make great (perhaps the ultimate) economical, social and emotional sacrifices out of love and devotion for their Imam.

There is therefore no gain or profit materially for these 2 devotees of the Imam, or for their sevadari families? May their prayers and their seva be blessed. Ameen

* United Arab Emirates

lawsuit
On August 28th, 2010 nato mohez (not verified) says:

Dear Sisters, Brothers, Ya Ali Madat,
In a few days, we all celebrate Lailat-Ul-Qadr or Angels Night, a real opportunity to all momins who are sad, very sad and clouded by this lawsuit to pray and humbly ask for Mowla Rehmat. And we all must made special prayers blessed by Mowla for Tazdin, Jiwa, and their sevadari families and also for Sachedina and Bhaloo.
I repeat again, in my profound “intime conviction”, I do not believe Mowla wishes this lawsuit! I believe also that for a true momin, his faith will always undergo testings! So Jiwa and Tazdin, be strong, keep solid your faith and devotion to Mowla Bapa!
For all ismailis connected with this interesting Website (many thanks to Umed and his group), I wish to share with you all that I have written last night for my french speaking ismailis friends for preparing this Great Night! And be assured that I will pray for the all ismailis around the world and ask to Angels to protect Tazdin and Jiwa!

La nuit des Anges ou Lailat-Ul-Qadr pour les Bhatinis !
Les musiciens connaissent bien ce phénomène. Voici deux diapasons absolument identiques : on touche l’un d’eux, il vibre, et l’autre qui n’a pourtant pas été touché, entre aussi en vibration. On dit qu’il y a résonance.
Eh bien, un phénomène analogue se produit avec l’être humain : s’il arrive à accorder son être physique et son être psychique aux vibrations les plus subtiles de l’Univers, il peut atteindre les Puissances Célestes pour faire un échange avec elles et recevoir ainsi aide et réconfort.
“Meditation is a vehicle that allows us to contact our deepest spiritual core or center, which is the essence of our being”…..” The key to inner peace and happiness lies within us. Meditation takes us on a journey inside ourselves to seek a connection with the Divine essence. This practice, if sufficiently strong and dedicated, has the potential to bring about spiritual enlightenment, which arises when we understand the deeper mystery and meaning of life”. (Mowlana Shah Sultan Mohammad Shah- Paix éternelle sur Lui).
Oui, c’est une façon de communiquer : on peut entrer en méditation, nous pouvons parler et on nous entend ! « Je suis toujours Présent et Je suis toujours avec vous » (Mowlana Hazar Imam) ! (Le Bhayat nous unit à vie à Lui n’est ce pas !).
Lors de cette Nuit des Anges, nous pouvons même toucher certains courants de forces dans l’Espace pour les faire venir jusqu’à nous. Dès que nous connaissons cette loi, nous comprenons combien il est important de nous dépasser, de nous surpasser pour toucher les cordes les plus subtiles de notre être et les faire vibrer, car il y aura nécessairement des forces, des entités, des régions qui répondront en nous faisant bénéficier de leurs richesses.
“What I would like my spiritual children to understand is that our practice is a practice of the Heart and the Soul . But also it is a practice of Reason. I would like you to have it clear in your minds what is essential in our practice . It is not only Dua , it is not only presence in Jamatkhana ,it is not only service to the Imam and to the Jamats , but it is also Ibadat . Extract of Firman made by Mowlana Hazar Imam in Dar es Salaam on 6 th October 1988 .
MowlaBapa n’oublie jamais Ses Murids ! Mowlana Hazar Imam n’a-t-il pas dit qu’il est important d’être régulier au rendez-vous qu’Il nous accorde (Grâce et Paix sur Lui) ! Mile sukranas à Lui et Shukar Mowla de nous donner cette chance de vivre cette Nuit des Anges et de nous garder sur la voie droite du Siratal-mustaquim !
Bonne réception avec mes prières et mes sincères pensées fraternelles pour une Nuit de Lailat-Ul-Qadr complète, sereine et pleine de satisfactions ! Nous savons aussi qu’il n’y a pas d’écoute vraie sans l’attitude fondamentale d’humilité ! Et que la vie quotidienne avec son lot de »challenges »aille de soi est la condition sine qua non de la paix intérieure et du silence de l’Ibadat, propice à la relation avec le Noor de Mowla !

Ya Ali Madat et Khuda Hafeez ! Mohez nato

* France

Le message ci-dessus de Mohez Nato
On September 8th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
J'espère que cette sainte nuit vous aura apporté ce que vous désiriez...
Ya Aly madad.
PS Vous avez sans doute lu la transcription du contre interrogatoire mené au début août.

* Canada

@Nato Mohez
On August 28th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Very well written. Thank You. Merci.

* Canada

Let us invoke Mawla's Rahemat on this 17th day of Ramadan 2010
On August 27th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Today when our minds are clouded with worries and tensions.
Let us not forget Our Lord Hazar Imam is among us to bless us and guide us.
Let us reflect on this Magnificent piece of historical evidence of greatness of Ismaili Imamat

The Declaration of Alâmut
( Imam ‘Alâ -zhikrihis-salâm )

8th August 1164/17th day of Ramadan

On the seventeenth day of the month of Ramazân, in 559 AH ( 8th August 1164 A.D.), under the astrological sign of the Virgo, the sun being in the Cancer constellation, the Imâm had ordered a pulpit to be erected oriented towards the west, on the prayer ground at the foot of Alamût. Four banners had been set up at each corner of the pulpit. The companions from Khôrassan had been placed at the right side of the pulpit. Those from the Persian Irâq had taken place at the left side. The Daylâmites and the companions from Rûdhbar had been seated just in front of the pulpit.

In the middle, facing the pulpit, a platform had been built and the faqîh Mohammad Bostî was ordered to stand on the platform. Around noon, the grand-master ( Khôdavand ) ‘Ala zikrihis-salâam, wearing a white robe and having a white turban on his head, came down from the fortress of Alamut. He approached the pulpit by its right side, and walking up step by step, slowly and with majesty,he ascended the pulpit. Three times, he expressed his salute : the first one to the people from Daylâm in front of him, the second one, by turning to his right, the third and last one by turning to his left. For a moment, he sat down. Then, he rose, put on a shoulder-belt to which was hung his sword and he read this proclamation in a loud and clear voice :

" Stand up ! for the Day of the Resurrection has arisen. The waiting of the Signal
is now fulfilled. Now has come the rise of the Resurrection ( Qiyamât ) which is the accomplishment of all the resurrections. Today, there is no more need to search the proofs or the evidences; today, the Knowledge depends no more on the Signs ( from the verses of a revealed Book ), nor on the speeches, neither on the symbols, nor on the acts of devotion bending the bodies. Today, the acts and the words, the signs and the symbols have come to the end of the term of their terms. The one who has contemplated with his own eyes the Essence ( dhât ) in person, that one has contemplated with his own eyes the totality of the signs and evidences of all the Revelations, while that which he knew by names and qualifications, was its reverse and converse, that which was until now hidden under a veil."

" O you, inhabitants of the worlds ! You, djinn, men and angels ! Know that Mawlâ-nâ
( our Lord ) is the Resurrector ( Qâ’im al-Qiyâmat ). He is the lord of all beings, he is the lord who is the absolute existence ( wojûd motlaq ), thus excluding all existential determination, for he transcends them all. He opens up the gates of his Mercy, and through the light of his Knowledge, he is the cause which makes that all beings can see, can hear, can speak, can live for eternity.

" To the one who knows, it is incumbent on him to praise Him and to express his gratitude to Him, though He transcends all that, for he is the One who is his praise to Himself, the One who by his essence is the all-Knowing."
" After that, the Imâm pronounced a first exhortation. Then he read the copy of the epistle beginning with these words : " We are the always existing in the present…" Then he pronounced the first sermon. After that, he sat down for a while, stood up again and pronounced the second sermon."

" After that, the faqîh Mohammad Bostî stood on his platform, facing the chair on the pulpit and read out the translations of the sermons and the grand epistle from beginning to end. During the reading of the translations, the grand-master himself listened standing up. When the reading ended, the grand-master left his chair and went down to recite the liturgical prayer comprising two successive inclinations of the head ( rik’a ) as it is the custom during days of solemn festival."

" The whole day went by in felicitations, congratulations and other manifestations of
overwhelming rejoicing. The necks of the believers have been freed from the shackles and the chains of the Law. "

" On the very same day, order was given so that the festival be celebrated at Mu’minâbad in Qohestân and everywhere else.
The above description reminded me of GJ Deedar, Daresalam August 2007 where Mawla asked the whole jamat to put all the worries on the side (he indicated with hand to push aside ) and celebrate the evening with Dandiya ras and Biriyani.

( The declaration Translated from a French article by Henry Corbin)Henry Corbin: "Huitième centenaire d'Alamût", Mercure de France, février 1965, p.286-304.

* United States

"Heritage", a Great Site
On August 26th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Umed: In my previous postings, I have mentioned that this Site is a "Knowledgeable and Peaceful" site, which I am sure we all enjoy surfing. Just look at the beautiful stories, that some of the Murids of our Beloved Hazar Imam have been sharing with us, and this makes Hazar Imam happy, "Knowledge of our Faith". Thank you to you all. Umed, keep up the excellent work you are doing. Once again many thanks.

* Canada

"Heritage", a great site
On September 8th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
En effet, on ne peut vous remercier assez pour tout ce que l'équipe affiche et met à la disposition des internautes ! Vous ne savez combien je prie pour l'auteur du site et ses collaborateurs à chaque fois que je lis les extraits de discours ou de ginan ou de kalam qui figuren en tête de page, ou que je consulte un discours, la biographie, ou que je fais des recherches pour les ginan ! Et que dire des belles photos qu'on y trouve et qui me donnent les larmes aux yeux...Puisse-t-Il vous garder sur le droit chemin à jamais, vous accorder la santé, la paix, beaucoup de joies, éloigner le mal et les vices de vous, et exaucer vos désirs les meilleurs. Ameen !
Et l'époque du jubilé restera inoubliable avec toutes les nouvelles que vous affichiez et le projet de salwaat ! Mille mercis !
Et bonne continuation !
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

ALLAH IS GRACIOUS AND MERCIFUL
On August 25th, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Now coming back to the thread of the confronting issues, the Defendants must be very strong in their belief to continue with this litigation. They (Defendants) have survived the name-calling, preconceived notion, intimidation, and prejudice but the Defendants are steadfast in their belief that the resolution to this lawsuit will be pronounced in their favor! Personally, I do not know the conclusion of this litigation but I am praying that it is fair and just. Allah Hafez, Nizar Ali K. Shivji!

@ Alibhai Jiwani
On August 25th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

This is very good information. Did 18th Imam (Imam Mustansir Billah) not know in advance that the hardship would be created for Shirazi, His future Hujja, by his very own senior leaders? Indeed, on spiritual plane, He had the knowledge, but on physical plane (Zaheri side), He acted just like any other normal ruler.
Similarly, Maula Ali, on spiritual plane was obviously aware that He would not be selected as a third Caliph of Islam due to conspiracy of a couple of persons, and yet, He for the sake of Islam, remained in the field as a candidate until the last. Though later on, after 12 years, and as a last resort, when Muslim world was under total chaos, He accepted reluctantly to become the fourth Caliph on insistence of Muslim public at large.

The Point is: ‘In almost all events, Imam of the Time, normally acts as an ordinary human being, though on spiritual plane, He is omniscient and all in all.

Mawla has to act like ordinary human on physical realm
On August 25th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

Asif, I am a great believer of spirituality but convinced by your reply I am also afraid that in this case no matter how much on spiritual level Mawla might be in agreement with the defendants. on physical plane he might be just forced to behave like an ordinary person to protect our Institutes and powerful leaders surrounding him in order to maintain the structure of our organised religion.
Alnaz and Nagib might be the unforunate casualties.I am praying for a miracle.Even though it is very rare to come by

* United States

Justice
On August 25th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

In Islam the Faithful believe in Divine justice and are convinced that the solution of the great problem of predestination and free will is to be found in the compromise that God knows what man is going to do, but that man is free to do it or not. Wars are condemned. Peace ought to be universal. Islam means peace, God's peace with man and the peace of men one to another. . [Memoirs]

-- Aga Khan III

* United States

senior lawyer
On August 25th, 2010 Asif Momin (not verified) says:

Umed: Ya Ali Madad

Have senior lawyer and notary been examined yet; or, from point of view of defendants, their examinations are not at all required?

The only people examined are
On August 25th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

The only people examined are Tajdin, Jiwa, Sachedina, Bhaloo and Forensic Expert Mr Osprey, no one else according to our knowledge. So these were the people in the battlefield for the upcoming Motions.

Lawsuit News Update
On August 25th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Case Management dates will be set after 7th of September, not on 24/25th August.

Final transcripts for Tajdin, Jiwa, Sachedina and Bhaloo have been finalized, the only one not yet available is the transcript of the examination of the Forensic Expert Mr Opsrey by Mr Gray.

Ospreay Transcipts
On September 13th, 2010 zak (not verified) says:

Can the transcripts of Ospreay , the forensic handwriting expert , be posted here since they are available now ?
Did a case management conference call happen on 7 september ? what was outcome ?
Thanks

* Canada

Transcripts of
On September 13th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

Transcripts of cross-examination of Forensic experts will be posted shortly. The Case Management Conference has not happened yet, maybe in a week...

Ospreay Transcipts
On September 13th, 2010 zul (not verified) says:

I dont think that NT/AJ will post the Ospreay transcript here, .. this will be a very shameful thing to do

* Canada

Above post re: case management dates
On August 25th, 2010 Kanize (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
What does "case management dates" mean, librarian-umed? Sorry for being so ill informed. And thank you. Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

Specially managed proceedings
On August 26th, 2010 Believer (not verified) says:

Specially managed proceedings [r. 383-385] are cases taken out of the usual Court flow and proceed according to directions given by the case management judge. The case management judge may:

* give any directions that are necessary for the just, most expeditious and least expensive determination of the proceedings on its merits;
* fix the period for completion of subsequent steps in the proceedings notwithstanding any period provided for in the Rules;
* fix and conduct any dispute resolution or pre-trial conferences that he or she considers necessary; or subject to subsection 50(1) hear and determine all motions arising prior to the assignment of a hearing date;
* or may order that a status review be held in accordance with Rule 382.

(from: cfcj-fcjc.org/inventory/reform.php?lang=en&id=40)

Trancripts
On August 25th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

How can we read those final transcripts?
or are they private?

* United States

can you post these
On August 25th, 2010 zul (not verified) says:

can you post these transcripts ( tajdin, jiwa, bhalo, sachedina??

* Canada

We have to verify first the
On August 25th, 2010 librarian-umed says:

We have to verify first the legalities of this and then get them so it may take some time..

Historically leadership has created obstructions for Momins
On August 24th, 2010 Alibhai Jiwani (not verified) says:

A true momin's faith will always undergo testings!
The following history is remarkable.

When al-Mu’ayyad-din Shirazi ,an exceptional poet and ardent Momin of the Imam left Persia and went to Egypt with a burning desire to see Imam Caliph Mustansirbillah, he feared the intrigues of the ministers who did not permit any man of learning to see Imam personally unless he complied with their dictates and acknowledged their superiority.
On reaching Egypt he experienced all that he had feared.
He was lodged in a small house and his visits to the court were short and limited to prevent him from seeing the Imam.
Most of the Vaziers and their junior officers were jealous of al-Muy’ayyad for they all saw in him the real threat to their positions.
Disappointed, he finally decided to leave Egypt and wrote about his frustrations to Tastari, who was one of the powerful people in the Fatimid State. Shirazi wrote:

“I have not come to Egypt to seek wealth or gain any position. The promptings of my faith have brought me here. I have come to visit the Imam and not the Vaziers and their officials. Unfortunately, these people stop me from having a look at my Imam and now I am returning disappointed”

The sudden death of Tastari gave al- Mu’ayyad another opportunity to renew his efforts to get some time to be in the holy presence of the Imam and with the help of one of the minister he was able to have the “Deedar” of the Imam, for the first time in his life.

” I was taken near the place where from I saw the bright light of the Prophethood.My eyes were dazzled by the light .I shed tears of joy and felt as if I was looking at the face of the prophet of Allah and of the commander of the faithful, Hazrat Ali.
I prostrated myself before the one who is the fittest person to bow to.
I wanted to say something but I was awe struck…
I tried to speak but my tongue refused to move. People asked me to say what I wished to say. I could say nothing."
The Imam said:
“Leave him. Let his fear and awe subside.”
He was in Sajda for hours!!
After several years, the Imam graciously granted him the position of the chief Dai (Hujjat or proof of Imam) of the Fatimid Caliphate.
While Appointing to this prestigious position the 18th Imam himself wrote a Qasida, which praises Shirazi’s knowledge and unique competence and his ordeal to visit the Imam of the time. The Imam wrote:

“O Hujja, who is famous among the people,
Our doors were not locked to you
Except due to a hurtful, disturbing cause:
Our shunning was the shunning of a concerned father

Our followers have lost their right guidance,
So spread among them what you will of our knowledge
And be for them the concerned parent.

Even though you are the last in our dawa you have surpassed the compass of earlier dais
The like of you cannot be found among those who have gone, from all the people nor those that remain”

Amazing!
Ever heard of Imam writing a Qasida for a murid?
This proves Imam’s love is much more for his true Momin than a momin’s love for Imam.

Source for the above article:
Life and lectures of Al Muaayyad fid din al Shirazi
late Javed Muscati
Ismailia association for Pakistan 1950

* United States

Re:Historically leadership has created obstructions for Momins
On August 25th, 2010 Najm (not verified) says:

Al Mu'ayyad's longing for the deedar of then Imam-e-Zaman (and Caliph) Imam Mustansirbillah can not be compared with our brothers, Tajdin's and Alnaz's, created situation. But yes, in the school of life everyone has to to 'pass the tests' to go to a higher class. Ramadan Mubarak.

* United Kingdom

Re: Alibhai's above post
On August 24th, 2010 Abdullah (Canada) (not verified) says:

786
Indeed, brother Alibhai, many thanks for sharing the above and for including the source too! I had heard about the dai's extreme emotion at the time of the Deedar, but had not heard of the Imam's qasida for him...As for obstacles for the dai to meet the Imam and for hostility towards him, history does repeat itself, doesn't it...
Again, thank you.
Ya Aly madad.

* Canada

@Alibhai Jiwani
On August 24th, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

Thank you for sharing this beautiful story with us.

* Canada

@Yasmin
On August 24th, 2010 Kasamali (not verified) says:

You are right Yasmin. These two are not only ardent and devoted Murids of Hazar Imam but are full with Isq-e-Haqiqi (Love for the Imam of the Time). Their Iman is not less than Gopis of Mathura or that of Fidais of Almut period. It is a matter of just 3 to 4 months and real truth will come out. I foresee many positive fallouts after the court verdict.
My main point:
Intellect is helpful in attaining partial knowledge of Imam of the Time but is totally insufficient to experience Him in the heart. Consciousness of Him must arise in the heart on the basis of innate natural disposition of man. And to attain him in the heart requires immense love for Him which should surpass one’s love for all others including everyone and everything.
• Love cannot be contained within our speaking, listening or writing; Love is an ocean whose depths cannot be plumbed. Would you try to count the drops of the sea? Before that ocean, the seven seas are nothing ( Maulana Rumi, Mathnavi,
v 2731-32)

Hazar Imam Loves His Murids
On August 22nd, 2010 Yasmin (not verified) says:

The defendants in this lawsuit are two good Murids of our Beloved Hazar Imam. They want to know the "truth" in this case. Inshallah, Hazar Imam will show them the truth. They both have very strong faith, and their faith will give them the strength to face any challenges. Hazar Imam loves all His Murids, and I am sure He will take care of this situation. Thank you.

* Canada

Praying for a happy closure!
On August 21st, 2010 Nizar Ali K. Shivji (not verified) says:

Ya-Ali-Madat, Mr. Bloglaw! It is very pleasing news that Messer Tajdin and Alnaz have recognized the fact that MHI is fully aware about the litigation. The Defendants have also accepted that it is MHI prerogative and privilege to put into effect the ending or continuation in this litigation. How this litigation ends does not have any significance because it has started and it has to end!

The majority of the Jamat is aware about the litigation but was not comfortable to know as to how it came out. I think Messer Tajdin and Alnaz should understand when the Ismaili Muslim gather for prayers in Jamatkhana, the Jamat is praying for the good, and betterment of all Ismaili Muslim as well as the world. Therefore, there is malice involved!

Normally the obligation is always on the Ismaili Muslim to interpret the right context. There have been disagreement, insubordination, and to an extent rebelliousness in Jamat. These adjectives are all internal bickering. We are 15 million Ismaili Muslims worldwide, and appeasement is not in the foundation of Ismailism!

MHI has specially said in